“She turned on me”

turning

In the last comment thread Rational Male regular, Glenn, had an interesting exchange that went like this:

My marriage exactly. And she really did turn on me by the time my daughter was 2, also having two miscarriages. It was as though a switch went off and she simply fucking hated me. In my case, I had too much dignity and many women who were interested in me who seemed quite fine, so I put my foot down and my ex then just began an affair with a Plan B she had in the wings (hotties always have a Plan B guys, especially wives). She married him and destroyed him too, but it wrecked my relationship with my daughter along the way. So much destruction and pain.

I often look back on my marriage now from the RP perspective and have started to blame myself for not being more dominant and not seeing shit tests for what they were etc, but I also wonder if there was anything I could have done? She was hot, there were always good looking guys willing to fuck her – I mean, is it just inevitable for some women?

As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose – a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity. In Anger Management I detailed the anger men direct at themselves, not at the women who followed a natural predictable ‘flow’ of rationalizations and social conventions they can be expected to as their conditions in life dictate. Naturally any anger a man may deal with or express in this regard is always presumed to be directed towards women. A feminine dominant social order is one founded on the innate solipsism of women.

Now, before I dig in a bit deeper here, I want to make clear that while Glenn’s comment started my thinking process about this week’s topic, what I’m going to get at here isn’t a reflection on anything personal. His story of being “turned on” by a wife he believed was playing on his team is a very common one related by many a post-divorced man using the hindsight of a Red Pill lens.

I’m adding this caveat since only Glenn can really say for himself whether his mindset at the time he first met, and later married, the wife who turned on him was colored by Blue Pill idealism and / or a Beta self-perception. My guess, as with most men in his situation, was that he actually had what was a realistic expectation of a reciprocal relationship based on what he thought would be her genuine appreciation of his efforts and merits.

Betas at the Epiphany

I’ve discussed in several prior threads the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks strategy women use in both the short and long term. What I think needs a bit more explanation is the long term effects of that strategy on the Beta man’s mindset as a result of his fem-centric conditioning.

When a woman approaches and enters into her Epiphany Phase, she has a limbic understanding that her genetic chips need to be cashed in with a man who has ‘proper’ long term provisioning potential. For the greater part, those men are at least expected by women to have a Blue Pill, Beta conditioning that will make them more compliant with, now, what’s becoming an unignorable open Hypergamy.

These are the men Sheryl Sandberg describes as,

“…someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”

These are nice euphemisms used to describe a man willing to accept his position of powerlessness in the grand scheme of feminine-primacy and open Hypergamy for his participation in realizing women’s dominant sexual strategy.

The Beta man encountering this new found attraction convinces himself that women’s interest in him is genuine and organic. In a sense it is, but although this attraction (not to be confused with arousal) is perceived as genuine on the part of women, it’s an attraction born of necessity. That necessity is the need to consolidate on monogamy with a man who’ll willingly ignore not just her past Alpha Fucks indiscretions, but participate in what he’s been conditioned to believe is his duty as a man from society and start to build a “mature adult” life with her.

A Beta at the Epiphany phase believes his ship has finally come in and his self-righteous AFC strategy of patience and perseverance will be rewarded. The social conventions at the time make him believe he’s to be more lauded for ‘forgiving’ a woman’s past, irrespective of whether he can expect praise for looking past her misgivings.

The Alpha Widow or carousel riding wife-to-be may then convince herself that she in fact actually sees an Alpha potential, or a potential for long term success, in ‘settling’ on that Beta in the long term. While I have had men relate horror stories about women knowing that they were settling and being insecure about their futures before or at the time of their wedding, I’m going to suggest that this foreknowledge is rarely a conscious aspect of women’s insight. “Turning” on their husband-to-be later in is life rarely a preconceived plan, but it is a predictable outcome for men who persist in a Beta mindset throughout their marriages.

Getting Her Settled Best

Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but for a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers.

That Beta believes it’s his turn, because why else would a woman commit to a lifetime investment in a man she didn’t think was her best option?

Remember, during the Epiphany Phase a woman’s rationale for choosing the Beta for a long term investment is because she’s “experienced it all” and finally “knows better than to keep dating the Bad Boys who don’t appreciate her.” Thus the Beta believes he must be the best option for her by virtue of her investment in that belief.

And if she’s finally come to realize he’s the best option, why would she not expect to enjoy her best sexual performance with him? After all, even Sheryl Sandberg said, “…in time, nothing’s sexier.”

For the Alpha Widow marrying the Beta-in-waiting, the comparison of his sexual appeal with prior lovers conflicts with her need to finalize the long term security she couldn’t with her previous Alphas (or the men she perceived as Alpha). Thus comes reserved, self-restrained and self-conscious sex with her new Beta provider. She knows that sex with her Beta lacks the intensity of her prior lovers, but falls back on her Epiphany Phase rationalizations that she’s “doing it for the right reasons this time”.

That right reason being of course getting pregnant to further consolidate long term provisioning.

Our Beta simply lacks the same sexual experience as his wife-to-be to know any better (unless of course he finds proof of that experience later), but he gradually suspects her progressive lack of passion, reservations and self-consciousness by comparing it to porn or some of the other women’s he’s had sex with.

Social conventions abound for women to rely on as they become less incentivized to have sex with their Beta after the first child. Body image considerations, ‘mismatched libidos’ and “well, sex is supposed to taper off after marriage, everyone knows that” are just some of the prepackaged tropes ready for use.

The Turning

Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her Beta increasing his provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.

This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.

For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship – finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends – on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.

Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sex all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.

This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.

So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment. These are the guys who tell me, “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 30? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”

Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but it’s important that men know the signs, understand what’s really expected of them and know when they’re being settled on despite all a woman’s self-interested refutations of that. It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.

It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that she chose him to settle on.

683 comments

  1. @ Rollo
    “Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. ”

    I agree with this but disagree that there is only one counter-move here.
    Your assertion of “keep frame” is one way to make sure the woman stays your wife. Another would be… keep her barefoot and pregnant until well past epiphany.

    I have said this before so I will say it again. I don’t know any women with more than 3 kids who is divorced. I know _plenty_ that have 1-2 kids who are on the cock carousel right now.

    It’s pretty obvious to me. If you want your woman to be mindful of things besides her options with other males… well then occupy her time.
    Yes this means she can’t work outside the home.
    Yes that means you don’t have the exotic vacations every year.
    Yes that means a bigger house.
    Yes that means more eating in
    Yes that means zero couple time…

    The man has to force the point that a marriage is not DisneyLand… it’s working to a goal. And one of those goals has to be making a productive next generation.

    But in the end you ARE going to pay. So it’s either Cash and Prizes or a mess of kids.

    Your choice … I went with the mess of kids. Worked out ok so far.
    But as in all things like Rollo I am mindful of the feral nature of women.
    In a No to Maybe world it’s always a string of Maybes. No guarantees with women… ever.

  2. They all turn on you, eventually. The only question is when.

    Get used to it and remember the best word in the RP dictionary: “NEXT!” Even if you’re married, there’s plenty of women out there, many of whom treasure the pre-selection aspect of “married”(In name only) men. Oneitis should never be part of any LTR, even marriage. I saw with my own eyes, male relatives who pined for their deceased wives daily and could never get over their passing; while in contrast, female relatives who became widows thrived, remembering the husband twice a year on birthdays and anniversaries, but otherwise having a grand old time if the departed beta provider was at all decent in long-term provisioning.

    Breaking of vows? Ha! Remember the basic social contract is regular and easy sexual relations and validation, in exchange for long-term security and provisioning. Women regulary break their vows first and often, but will never admit it. Yet, it is a bilateral contract…..

  3. re: “Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but”

    No, but. Inarguably more than 90% do follow it. BTW it’s not the arrival of the first or second child that causes the woman to deprioritize sex. Since having kids is so deayed nowadays, we now know that the honeymoon period is intrinsic to living together. The doomsday clock starts at the surge in oxytocin when the woman falls in love, which typically is close in time to moving in together. The constant contact causes the woman to fall out of love quite rapidly, i.e. within the few years maximum of the honeymoon period.

    Fo lesbians it’s less than a year. And for them, obviously, usually no kids. So it’s not the kids.

  4. Steve Harvey is preaching a lot of blue pill utility on his show. Also always using the term cookie, and preaching how men should always qualify to women.
    And is also why there shouldn’t be anybody sending their sons to his mentors camp thing. I imagine it would be a set up for constant disappointment and frustration.

  5. Beta men should have one requirement and one requirement only before marriage. That his girl friend/potential bride to be fuck his brains out for at least 6 months in the most submissive way possible, fulfilling all his sex fantasies that he always had when he was young and could not get with her or someone like her because they were busy riding the alpha cock carousel.

    Then at least if it all comes crashing down later he won’t feel like a fool because he did get something akin to her sexual best first and for a good amount of time. He won’t end up in the situation like that one guy did of finding the video of his wife and realizing he was just getting the boring scraps of her sexuality after the fact. If women are going to act like sluts and slut culture is going to be promoted then ALL men should treat them as such and demand the same type of sexual attention as they give alphas…..or no ring, no marriage, no commitment. There has to be a sexual test that Beta men should apply first or they should consider marriage a no go.

  6. ” The constant contact causes the woman to fall out of love quite rapidly
    I’ve found that women in general get meaner, or you could say stop pretending to have a nice core personality, at a point of familiarity. At work, with friends,etc.
    Men will give long term friends hard times and stuff, but the boundaries that you end up finding out about each other they always keep aware of.
    Women, familiarity seems to mean to them no boundaries. Or at least severely blurring them.

  7. Rollo,

    It strikes me that the reason this happens is that the woman comes to a more realistic assessment of her husband’s “performance” potential and that the beta will not transform into the alpha that she hoped he would be.

  8. I’ve always been fascinated with the fact that arranged marriages generally end in happier marriages. I suspect the level of tolerance is a key ignored personality aspect.

  9. “The doomsday clock starts at the surge in oxytocin when the woman falls in love, which typically is close in time to moving in together. The constant contact causes the woman to fall out of love quite rapidly, i.e. within the few years maximum of the honeymoon period”.

    I’ve always known this which is why if men get married they better be doing it first and foremost because they want to have a family and children and not think that having a wife means his sexual needs will be met and he doesn’t have to think about them anymore. I think that’s the main reason why men end up cheating and leaving their wife (often for a younger woman) and the the wife is baffled as to why..then wants to cry about how the man is to blame, the man is the cheater who just wants to ditch her for a younger woman. Sometimes that is the case but I imagine often it is still the wife’s fault for not taking care of her husband sexually. That would explain the 30% of divorce initiated by men. lol

  10. “She turned on me”. She never was on your side. There is no frame control in this situation. No shit test deflecting skills will matter. Nothing is going to save your marriage because she was rotten from the get go. Stop trying to rescue them with game. Learn how to pick the right one from the start. Someone who’s daddy was really captain of the ship. Someone who is elated to take direction and be properly owned by her man.

  11. @WCB, re: “at a point of familiarity”

    The currently favored explanation of this *universally* observed post-honeymoon period behavior of women is incest avoidance. The constant contact makes the woman’s body believe she is having sex with her brother or something.

    Two obvious ways to avoid this are
    1) Move out, and hardly ever see her except to have sex.
    2) Don’t move out but get other girlfriends, which will reset her doomsday clock.

    Alternatively some men are suggesting
    0) Never get familiar or brotherly in any way. Always be the bad guy, the stranger, the boss, the big guy in charge she wouldn’t dare sass back.

  12. Yet another Excellent Post, Rollo. It rings very true for me in experience – Marriage 1.0 and 2.0 and the different approaches I took – and gives words to some things I realized but couldn’t verbalize. Let me just say:

    “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 23? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”

    @neobushi – I’ll second your words – You got to pick the right one from the start, and you got to know the RP and yourself before even attempting that.

  13. @jf12 interesting report, but those aren’t the grasseaters. Grasseaters also cross heavily over with NEETs, basically shut-ins that aren’t married, employed, students, or doing anything else with their lives.

  14. Haha you old people are funny, nothing funnier seeing middle age people reminisce and unable to apply the wisdom they gained. A little dark traid on my part hehe.

    How mainstream is this in the United States, working/middle class? In poorer communities and in latin america there is more awareness of “red pill” knowledge. I root for the white brothers lol, 18-30 deltas-betas, but as an undisclosed race guy Rollo, is it getting better for whites in the U.S. ? Is red pill moor mainstream? Is everyone more aware more than before

  15. A couple of years ago before discovering the ‘sphere I had a date where the question of long term goals came up. After listing mine she asked about marriage (her 34yr never married) and why it wan’t on my list. I replied “what’s the point of marriage?” she had no answer other than she wanted it, and therefore I should also.

    Recognizing there wasn’t going to be a second date, nor would I getting laid, I decided instead to explore her mind rather than body.

    “Tell me what benefits marriage has for me” I said. Awkward silence and then some insubstantial nonsense about commitment. No benefits to or for me were detailed. An appeal to duty, and honor was the best she could muster.

    I asked what she thought she would gain. Material stability, and an escape from the cock-carousel was the gist of her response there was a subtextual sense the gaining the legal commitment was a necessary personal validation that was more important than he quality of the relationship. It us as though the highest form of validation is a man’s willingness to sacrifice everything for her, possibly including his life.

    Many dark thoughts followed this conversation. I realized she was holding auditions for the role of Hero-Personal-Savior. A campion who would rescue her from her past foolishness. Forgive her sins. Provide her material upkeep. Listen to her daily twaddle. Protect and shield her from reality. A hero who would never expect to receive anything in return as though the opportunity to rescue her was the very zenith of a man’s experience and performing that role was itself all the reward and motivation necessary.

    Needless to say the doubts that had led to my cynicism were reinforced. I replayed variations of this conversation for other women I knew, mostly the wives of friends. All generally affirmed her position, and we’re aghast that I would so coldly ask how I might objectively benefit. How could I be so selfish? By what right did expect to want and receive anything beyond performing by services? Isn’t her love enough? I was told to grow up. My friends either parroted their wives responses, or in hushed voices warned me to tread lightly and choose wisely.

    My divorced friends said outright there were no tangible benefits to marriage only costs, and that they realized that only after things went to shit. All of them saying that after coming through dark times they realized that they had been living lives of drudgery with diminished expectations largely unaware or in denial of their own unhappiness.

    I’d been cynical for awhile. I always dismissed that charge as being a keen objective observer of the human condition when other are not. I figured by perpetual singleness was by nature of being defective. But after that I started to ask myself if I was really missing out on anything? Had I really failed? Maybe, just maybe I had avoided a life of misery.

    About three months later I found the ‘sphere.

  16. Cholo
    January 19th, 2015 at 12:07 am

    . Oneitis should never be part of any LTR, even marriage.

    Bestis should be though. If she thinks you are the best she can do it holds things together better than super glue. All my early dating actions were aimed at helping convince herself of that. “That guy gives you the tingles? Try him out if you want. I’ll help. You deserve the best you can get.” Of course I was trying out other women. Her (giving me a nice suck): “You taste like another woman. Ick.” Me: “Of course. I just had one. I’ll wash off and we can continue.” And we did.

    I was looking back at some of our early pictures and WOW. A 9 at least. Took my breath away. Add in the Ds and well…

    Thank the Maker I was RPed at 18. We did have 4 kids so that may also have helped (3 was our goal when we started).

    As to sex Always declining? Well the fm is 65 and hotter than ever. A few words from me – “You like watching me with another woman, don’t you.” (it is a statement) and not only does she tingle. She gets wet. Sometimes so wet that you can smell her in the next room. A woman dries out when she loses interest.

    I have Red Pilled all my sons. The daughter is still caught up in “equalism”. But she is young yet. 24. And a 9.5 at least (she models) So even though she doesn’t accept her nature – she has heard it. Maybe she will wise up in another 6 years. Or her brothers will have a talk with her.

  17. I’ve mentioned an attractive lady at office here in the past and have long wondered whether it is legit to draw conclusions from what I see, b/c what I see is a configuration as described in the article, and her behaviour lets me suspect she’s looking for “Mr. Plan B”.

    @Glenn: Your story is touching, man. Please accept my virtual invitation to guzzle some virtual fire-water together 🙂

    @Rollo: As always, thanks for this enlightening article. Expectingly awaiting your announcement. Tension heightened …

  18. Badpainter
    January 19th, 2015 at 1:49 am

    It us as though the highest form of validation is a man’s willingness to sacrifice everything for her, possibly including his life.

    That is and always has been true. I wrote in a comment here some years back

    “We are expendable. Get over it.”

    The highest validation for a woman is that she has a protector. That is why the bad boy makes her hot. Among other things. She has visions of “changing him” while he remains her protector. Of course what you really want to do is change her. Teach her to be submissive.

    The fm has always complimented me on that “protectorness” even when she was pissed as hell at me. Just as with dominance – it is what women like.

    She also liked that I would steer around trouble rather than through it.

  19. And you know what else? The fm has always expressed the most absolute disdain for Betas. “They don’t know what to do in emergencies. You are decisive. Give orders. Take action.”

  20. Glenn’s story makes a bit of a conundrum; (more or less quoting)

    “I looked back and blamed myself for not being more alpha.”

    Yet if you care enough to look back on this bitch and blame yourself then you are locked in as a beta-mindset anyway. I’m not trying to call you out or criticize you but it’s just a conundrum worth looking into and understanding. You can’t blame yourself for not being more alpha. Alpha springs from an apathy towards social conventions among other traits. An alpha wouldn’t even care if anyone thinks he’s an alpha. And you should’t blame yourself for allowing a woman to act like a bitch. Just be glad you got that necessary info and move on.

    “Is there anything I could have done?” There is pedestalizing, supplication, oneitis, frame-less, subservience in that question. So it seems like the answer is no. You go back in time with the mindset that you are the one who has to change to make the relationship work and it seems like you’re off on the wrong foot.

    It’s like this imaginary lament I just thought of (use a wistful voice);

    “If I hadn’t pedestalized her like I did then I could still be with her.”

    I say all this due to interest in the situation and what happened and not in slight. If I’m coming off like some guy who never made mistakes like this (or ten times worse) then that is just hilarious.

  21. @ M. Simon

    “tis more blessed to give than to receive”

    That is the FI’s instruction to men; give till it hurts, till you die.

    It’s the root of the conditioning, and training of betas. It’s the unspoken admission that women only want to want, they only desire to receive. They have nothing to give in return, because giving is something they don’t/can’t/won’t do. Anything a man wants has to be taken, or compelled, forced, stolen, coerced, or manipulated from them. Nothing will be given freely. 

    This why intimacy is an illusion, and vulnerability is shit test or men. This why men can’t be weak, can’t get sick, can’t get fired because then they can’t continue to give more than they get. When the gravy train is threatened it’s time for her to seek new opportunities. She won’t pick up the slack because her hypergamy begins sounding alarms about a less than optimal situation in her mental accounts receivable department.

    AFBB can be viewed as a Black Knight vs. White Knight situation. Women want to fuck the Black Knight. They want to fuck over the White Knight. 

    The Black Knight can be a protector, be dominant, be bad she wants him any which way. If the Black Knight thinks he’s getting anything of value (to her) in return from her he’s mistaken. He’s giving more than he’s getting because she doesn’t care about his wants or needs so long as hers are met. He is just a tool to burnish her ego. What looks like a gift from her is useless trash she doesn’t care about in the first place. 

    The White Knight is properly conditioned to believe that giving her everything is his highest aspiration. He does so with no expectations, no reciprocal wants, desires, or needs. No expectations that she will show gratitude or appreciation. She wants a knight to slay dragons at her behest, to kill and die for her not because he loves killing dragons but because he wants to give her everything. Giving is its own reward, giving to her the greatest reward. She, by doing zero in return for his sacrifice, receives the greatest validation of her sense of self. 

    Where this fails is that the White Knights don’t exist. Instead it’s just men and the BB being the most self sacrificial get to play the White Knight role. The cognitive failure of the beta is believing in mutually beneficial reciprocity. There isn’t any unless it’s pay for play. The Black Knight Alpha never works out because when she wants commitment she has nothing of value to offer in return which allows her to continue to believe he is giving without greater expectation than hers.

  22. @ M Simon

    I agree with you that decisiveness and self belief works wonders with women. It doesn’t matter at all how you treat her or whether you put her down or say inappropriate things in front of her friends. She is hooked because she feels safe in the hands of a man.

    You definitely need to convince the woman that she now has the best she can have. No matter how you control the frame. You might not even want a LTR with her. She will still respond to you and come to you whenever you want her to. I have been involved in love triangles in the past knowingly. Whereas in my early days I might have eventually fallen for the girl and destroy as a result any chance of being with her. Since then, I have managed to keep them break their relationships apart, expose them to their man and still not commit to a relationship with them.

    The women made the decisions to leave their relationships and I was clear from the beginning that I was looking for something non-monogamous. Sadly they agreed even after they had broken up with their boyfriends… to declare their love and commitment. When I was eventually fed up, I am sure that a plan b was also somewhere around and I had seen a number of them return to their ex-bfs to rekindle the relationship.

    I wanted to sit their boyfriends down and tell them that they need to live with self respect. But to be fair a beating would not do me any good. So I have done it only once.

    Still to this day it bothers me.

  23. @melmoth

    If I’m coming off like some guy who never made mistakes like this

    I long ago accepted that there are generally two ways guys find this community:

    1) “I can’t see what mistakes I’m making when I try to get a woman.”

    2) “I got a woman. It was a mistake.”

  24. My ex-wife after the first child upped her cheating to blatant levels with her recently graduated doctor boss. Hardly bothering to hide this cheating from me as I later discovered she did with her AF. I guess I was just the next beta on the foodchain, though it’s my own fault for being so beta.

    I used to wonder why she would fuck that fat bald loser, who can barely approach women. Though I found she was also fucking her old frat boy love for our entire marriage. Heh I failed at being the best beta and the best alpha.

    Can hardly blame her. It’s what she could do in our society. I’ve suffered all the fallout from the divorce and now she has a new BB while getting to keep running her AF. A better BB and he doesn’t know she’s getting her AF now.

    Though she’s terrified of me telling him and offering him the red pill. She knows I’ll do it as well. She knows if she let’s me know what BB she’s trying to spin into her second husband that there is a good chance I’ll tell him to chat with me over e-mail and expose her blatant AF plan.

    Hell she told me about it.

    I guess I must mean something to her if she could expose her hypergamy to me.

    Hey I did manage to have one kid from an olympic athletes genes. And my turn was very fun.

  25. Oh and my wife clearly revealed her many alpha fucks to me before I married her. I accepted it after punching a whole in the wall and breaking up with her for a week.

    Oh how I allowed the alpha in me to be killed. I killed myself. Truly became such a beta. Now we are both sad. She knows what I could be and am becoming, but with her I went full on beta.

    Shouldn’t have done that.

    It’s good to be able to think of the shit tests and fitness tests I failed and accept it rather then just be angry though.

  26. To be honest, there is only so much you can do. Just as Beyonce has (probably) regularly gotten cheated on by Jay-Z, so will the equivalent happen to the capo di tutti capi’s of alphas, particularly when matched with the wrong woman (e.g. a Cluster B personality disorder).

    The mistake many game proponents make (not directed at Rollo) is, coming from a more analytically minded background, underwritten by logic, rationality and cause and effect, is simply seeing game as the application of some correct formula: crack the correct code, apply it and reap the bounty unencumbered. No-one is omnipotent (not even Putin or Berlusconi).

  27. Oh I’m Snowden. Going with a new name here. Love all your comments. Sick that men younger then me look up to me. Lol what a joke. Look up to me?

    But they do. Just because I can get a plate. Ugh. Feminine conditioning has destroyed men. At least I have all my old Clint Eastwood movies and not the garbage the young men are being fed.

  28. attractive blonde. The spitting image of the cheating wife who just gave Kurt Lippert the hassle of a lifetime, out there in Covina CA.

  29. Thanks Rollo. Your writings will be famous in a couple of years.

    One aspect to be highlighted in view of this post: what happens with those wifes when the husband get “turned on”?
    From personal experience with many women over 30 with one or two kids: they open up for a new Alfa for fucks. They go wild and feral in bed with this Lover. It offered me fantastic sex. And they verbally absolutely despise their husbands who cater for income and who are working hard to please them at home.
    Its beta bucks turned back into cheating alfa fucks at the moment of being ´turned on’.
    And they truely cant help it when they fall for that slick RP educated Alfa.

  30. Badpainter
    January 19th, 2015 at 3:23 am

    They have nothing to give in return, because giving is something they don’t/can’t/won’t do. Anything a man wants has to be taken, or compelled, forced, stolen, coerced, or manipulated from them. Nothing will be given freely.

    They can be trained (with great difficulty) to submit. It has taken me 40 years. I’m starting to get willing submissiveness. And they will give quite a bit if you manipulate them. Or they submit willingly.

    All I can say is that I was very lucky that my first GF (at age 18 – ’62) started me on the Red Pill road. Even the fm agrees that the first GF was quite an unusual woman. “What do you mean she taught you to disrespect her?” Too funny.

    But the fm is unusual in her own way. She likes giving other women a shot at me and then winning me back rather than the usual female tactics of whine, bitch, and “I’ll leave you.”

  31. The progressively harder the hook is set (marriage, children), the less need to keep baiting it. Unless you are making her actively want to keep baiting it, it becomes an increasingly resented chore for which there is no added reward, because she already has you over a legal barrel.

    Which is to say, again, Briffault’s Law.

    Always Briffault’s Law.

  32. Sun Wukong
    January 19th, 2015 at 3:58 am

    I don’t remember how I found this community. Might have been a blog comment or a semi random search. But why do I stay? Well I want to improve my Game. There is always stuff to learn. And I like passing on what I know. And it is easy because my pain at learning RP was so far in the past that I can’t remember the hurt much at all. It has been covered with plates.

    If you live long enough you get over it. And then you get to enjoy what is available.

  33. nikochoski
    January 19th, 2015 at 3:26 am

    There is nothing you can do with a man who wants to be a full time beta except avoid associating with him. I generally avoided girls with husbands and boyfriends. I did tell one girl with a husband to leave me alone and go back to him. Those women are mostly pathetic.

    I have only met one woman who had even the slightest clue about how to keep me. I’ve been with her 40 years now. Four children. Pleasant most of the time? Hell no. Barely tolerable. But interesting.

    Nothing is perfect. – That is why there is so much of it in the universe.

  34. I think the ‘Alpha Provider’ might be more common than many of the posters here think.

    I know a guy who’s been married almost twenty years and still has sex every other day. He’s not the most alpha I’ve met, but I asked him once how he keeps his wife sexually interested. He says he uses “dread game” and just “expects” sex and his wife performs.

  35. @ Melmoth – There is no doubt that I pedestalized my erstwhile wife and I was Blue Pill in most ways. But my regret is due to the consequences of divorce, particularly wrt the fucked up relationship my adult daughter and I have. I always wanted to be a father and husband, and my only regret is that it got all fucked up and it seems to me that I could have used what I know of the Red Pill to make my marriage work. I don’t miss her – I wouldn’t put up with her for a moment these days. And since her I’ve been w many beautiful women but I never took shit from any of them, hence my being single. Marriage seems to me to be a Betaized institution to begin with. As I told a women last night, “No, I’ll never be monogamous.” She asked, “Why?” My reply,” Because I don’t want to be.” The look on her face was priceless. She’s 24 and thinks she has the world by the balls, but this flummoxed her. She continued, “But if you met the right woman you would, right?” “No” was all I replied. It was as though she couldn’t beliveve a man would dare say this. Fyi, I wasn’t trying to fuck her, she was a tier 3 plate my good friend is spinning, meaning she can fuck him if she can come over for 2 hrs on Sunday afternoon and then leave.

    @ jf12 – I think you are spot on wrt my marriage. In fact, 2 years into our relationship, after living together for a year, I went thought a mini-version of the same crap. We were engaged and I broke the engagement, and I scurried back when she seemed to get it. Honeymoon ending is what it felt like both times – kid or no, married or not.

    @ Cholo- I think you are quite correct. I made a bad selection. In fact she repeated the same pattern as her mother. I also think that very hot women fall into a different category. They have so many choices and oppty that they will always find someone who makes them tingle again, in fact they have to actively restrain themselves. My pedestalization and supplication and self-vassalization made it worse, but I truly think that in today’s world, very attractive women are like Lotto winners. Those of you who didn’t marry a woman who was the homecoming and prom queen might not get this.

    Since then, I’ve been with several women who were actual 10s, like my wife and while I didn’t pedestalize as much and in fact had a very low tolerance for any shit, it seemed to me that such women simply have so much power and flexibility and options in today’s world that they all become difficult cunts in about 3-4 months who any sane man should run from and I did.

    @ GirlwithDragonTatoo (oooooh so edgy, lol) – What is scary ir chilling about the comments? You say this as though we should all just agree or understand that. Nothing scary about them to me.

  36. @bo jangles:
    “I’ve always been fascinated with the fact that arranged marriages generally end in happier marriages. I suspect the level of tolerance is a key ignored personality aspect.”

    Thanks for pointing that fact out – I always forget about it. Please explain your second sentence though, I don’t understand it (could be my english)

  37. “performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.”

    Fantastically well put.

  38. Glenn
    January 19th, 2015 at 8:00 am

    As I told a women last night, “No, I’ll never be monogamous.” She asked, “Why?” My reply,” Because I don’t want to be.”

    I told the fm something like that when we were going together and again when we married. She actually (well mostly) enjoys dread game. It gets her motor running. And she likes that.

    It is very important that they understand that they can’t own you. I did make one proviso – “I’ll always tell you what is happening and you have the option of winning me back.” That always makes her smile because she is very confidant in the “winning back” area. So confident that we have on occasion gone on women hunts together.

    But a part of her had bestis for me since day one. I have encouraged and strengthened that part. If I was to give any LTR advice it would be to find a woman like Dudley Do Right’s Nell “My Hero, sigh”. I had to go through a LOT of them to find her and then a few more so she could prove to me that NOTHING would deter her. Not even other women. It was a semi conscious plan on my part. But you guys (and lurkers) now know more. Make it intentional.

    BTW there is little point in a LTR unless you want children.

  39. A devastating expose’ !

    I love how you basically completely sum up proper red pill relationship management at the very end with the succinct:

    It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.

    It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that she chose him to settle on.

    That’s pretty much all one needs to adhere to in order to be successful with a women in a STR/LTR.

  40. @girlwithadragonflytatoo, re: putting your husband first.

    All women know they ought to put their husband first, but almost all women mightily resist doing so. Apparently women have been fed the lie that husbands have a magical power to force women to want to do what the women ought to do. So since the women don’t want to do it, they blame their husbands for failing.

  41. @Sun Wukong, re: “I got a woman. It was a mistake.”

    Too true! “So now I’m praying for the end of time” etc.

  42. Sexual conflict is the overarching explanation of everything involving sexual reproduction. The female’s main role is to resist the male’s attempts to reproduce. Notice: attempts plural. Hence even after mating, the female tries to spurn the male, to get him to act like he doesn’t own her.

  43. I had a different experience.

    Two life events seemingly improved my sex life.

    1) As my career began to improve my wife amped up the sex.
    2) After our first child was born once again my wife amped up the sex.

    I would never cheat or leave my wife but I suspect that the female version of mate guarding was involved in both.

  44. I just want to add a piece of semi-useless trivia to sex after pregnancy.

    My wife couldn’t breast feed either of our sons for health reasons. She had HELLP Syndrome at the end of her first pregnancy and couldn’t produce enough milk after her second pregnancy. I know that my sample size is N=1 but after her breasts returned to their normal size they hadn’t changed. In fact she is 43 years old and they are still 95% the same as when first started dating when she was 18.

    Maybe that’s the result of luck, or maybe it is because she couldn’t breast feed. I don’t know.

  45. re: “She turned on me”

    Also said of insane dogs, for the same reason. It is 100% insane for a woman to turn on a nice husband, and yet almost all women do, on almost exactly the same schedule.

  46. Rob – “Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that she chose him to settle on.”

    I wonder is the male Praying Mantis is “gushingly appreciative” when the female eats him during sex?

  47. “She turned on me”
    Yep, dealt with that.
    To add my own data point to the study.
    Pregnant right out of the gates after marriage, then Irish twins so the second one was right there with no notice. Full blue pill slide along with precipitous drop in sex, respect etc.
    I was not so beta that I accepted my fate and I went out and had an affair. The other woman was married, no kids except as a step mother.
    So I banged this little hottie for a while and it restored my dignity. It also scared me, for I asked her why she was doing it, stepping out. Her answer, “I just need something, I need more”.It scared me because AWALT and so if that’s what she is like, sure enough my model is probably the exactly the same despite any protestations to the contrary. In retrospect and while wearing red tinted glasses I can see how her husband was gone full Beta despite being demonstrably Alpha in the work environment. It would have crushed him to know his girl was stepping out as that’s how his first marriage blew up too.
    Affair girl was sizzling in bed and it was a purely physical relationship, the more dangerous the encounter, the better for both of us. Without knowing it I was getting a fantastic refresher course if RP and AF/BB. she was very clear she had no intention of leaving her man but she was clearly just bored. He had BB covered all day long, she wanted some feral action which I was very happy to provide. She would say things like, “You get a hotel room and I will do ANYTHING you want”. She meant it too.

    It ended after not too long but it was very cathartic for me. It established clearly that I had SMV, even though I did not know of the idea, outside of my marriage and that boosted my self esteem immeasurably. It made me realize that by collapsing myself into my marriage and not “looking at data” outside my marriage I was short changing myself greatly. I was no prize at that point, but all of a sudden I knew I warranted a lot more attention then I had been getting at home. Sure enough my confidence went up and it had positive effects at home, sadly, short lived. It did give me a great sense of agency as well. I thought to myself I do not simply have to accept the situation I am in, I have choices, they may be hard, but I am not without options.

    Eventually my indiscretion was discovered and it created problems, which meant doubling down on blue pill marriage counselling which of course made it all worse. But it did have one wonderful long term effect which was of course dread.
    Merely flirting with other women in front of your wife can cause dread, but the knowledge that you went out and fucked the daylights out of another demonstrably newer hotter model really turns the shiv for better or for worse. In doing so my SMV on the home front went up for sure as it was a sucker punch to the hamster. Pre-selection can be a bitch.
    As for the wife turning on me, well she turned half way by unilaterally and retroactively renegotiating the terms of our marriage without telling me in the first few years of our marriage. She was going to keep turning further. At one point, after my dalliance, I unearthed her facebook adventures “reaching out” to old flames or could-of-beens from the past. I stepped up the surveillance and waited until there was enough there to prove mal-intent. Then I swatted it the fuck down and hard. She of course denied everything but a few years later, post red pill in an alarming moment of honesty she straight up admitted that at the time I was not giving her adequate AF or BB and so she was trying to set up a plan B just in case so she could swing to a new vine if need be. I acknowledged her honsety by tying her up, spanking her for half an hour then fucking her raw for an hour.

    Things are more stable now but I never for a moment imagine that there is even a shred of certainty to her commitment or desire. I simply assume close to the worse most of the time in terms of her intent or actions. Trust but verify and assume that the hamster is driving the bus at all times. Treat her like a 14 year old who happens to be able to drive. Setting my expectations this way, by being cynical, allows one to remove any doubts about what “might” be going on.

    Since the red pill on my part her turn has been back towards me and my direction, but any woman lives on a swivel and can turn at any point. I simply decide how much force or energy I am prepared to apply to make sure she is turned in a direction favourable to me.

  48. @ Sun Wukong
    Just don’t let her know that.

    You are 100% correct. One time I was at a shoe store and my wife caught me looking at an attractive brunette. On the inside I cringed. Nothing was said but that night when I laid down in bed she grabbed me and it was sex city. When she knows that other chicks are floating around it keeps her on her game.

  49. 3 … 2 … 1 …
    Ever woman lurker’s head exploded at the idea that *her* own husband no longer trusts her, at all, in any way, because she recognizes her own insanity. Sh.

  50. The fact that a woman would need to be ‘taught’ to put her husband as her first intimate priority confirms everything ever written about Hypergamy and women’s pluralistic sexual strategy.

  51. I Queued it up to the good part at 8 minutes and 7 seconds. A wife’s first realization that her beta provider husband has feelings. haha! Don’t be this guy.

  52. Agent p……Treat her like a 14 year old who happens to be able to drive.

    Well put….well put. If there is one piece of advice most useful in dealing with women, this is it.

  53. One piece of the Sheryl Sandberg quote doesn’t make sense.

    “…someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”

    Someone who wants an equal partner? Que? That runs directly counter to the reality of hypergamy. Women aren’t attracted to men unless they are taller, stronger, smarter, more talented and wealthier. If you as a man aren’t +1 in every column women won’t find you attractive. Any woman who marries an equal is settling big time. She won’t be happy. Case closed.

  54. re: Michele Weiner Davis.

    The first clue that she is completely wrong is the subtitle: “A Couple’s Guide to Boosting Their Marriage Libido”.
    http://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_sex_starved_marriage.htm

    She blames the *couple*, *their*, *marriage*, ANYTHING to avoid blaming the woman. And on the very first page
    “I am so tired of reading articles in women’s magazines and watching talk shows that perpetuate the myth that men are always more interested in sex than women. This is a bunch of hooey! There are many, many women who would LOVE to have a spouse who wants to have sex, touch or kiss. I’ve spoken to many women who have this same problem… Their husbands simply aren’t interested. I can not believe my circle of friends is so different from the average. None of their husbands are “getting it on the side”..they simply are not interested. In my case, my husband of 26 years has never been as interested as I in sex, and during the last 5 years our sex life has been nonexistent.”

    Anything she wants to say would be of negative value for me. A guide for insane dogs.

  55. “Also said of insane dogs, for the same reason. It is 100% insane for a woman to turn on a nice husband, and yet almost all women do, on almost exactly the same schedule.”

    It isn’t 100% insane. It’s legally sanctioned, financially profitable and society will bend over backwards to rationalize for her. A modern woman would have to be crazy *not* to cash in. Which is why a modern man would be 100% insane to marry, full stop. Never conflate investing and gambling.

    It becomes more and more obvious to me every day that game is a bandage for women’s systemic moral deficit. Girls aren’t becoming women anymore and whatever they do become is just going to have to do for a thirsty or family-oriented male.

    There are no works-in-progress anymore. Only raffles to be won.

    This isn’t nihilism, it’s the new playing field.

  56. Re: Their husbands simply aren’t interested

    1. Fat
    2. Bitchy
    3. Boring missionary only because everything else is demeaning
    4. High transaction costs (resistance, make him work for it)
    5. Repeated inferred rejection due to #4and he gets the point.
    6. Ambiguous signaling on her part that is missed entirely because of #s 4 and 5
    7. Concluding in his fault for lack interest in playing her game which he can’t win anyway.

  57. @ jf12
    The first clue that she is completely wrong is the subtitle: “A Couple’s Guide to Boosting Their Marriage Libido”.

    So true. Couples guide? haha!

    If you want more sex from your wife.

    1) Lose your fat gut
    2) Lift some weights and/or be athletic
    3) Go +1 in your career or business
    4) Get some game
    5) Tell her you want her

    Problem solved. If that doesn’t work I’m out of ideas.

    Early in my career as a beta-ish husband I tried Appeals to Reason. Rollo is 100% correct. My SMV dropped 3 points just because I opened my stupid mouth. Deeds not words.

  58. “…think that having a wife means his sexual needs will be met and he doesn’t have to think about them anymore. I think that’s the main reason why men end up cheating and leaving their wife (often for a younger woman) and the the wife is baffled as to why..then wants to cry about how the man is to blame, the man is the cheater who just wants to ditch her for a younger woman. Sometimes that is the case but I imagine often it is still the wife’s fault for not taking care of her husband sexually. That would explain the 30% of divorce initiated by men. lol”

    I cheated on my wife and left her for another woman not because of a lack of sex, but because of a lack of respect, appreciation and cooperation.
    Unfortunately, the new one turned on me too.

    Now, having swallowed the red pill, adjusted my mental point of origin to be my own self, reset my expectations to match reality, and conducting myself accordingly with women, relationships are going that much better.

    :-Ϸ to haha wtf. Youth is wasted on the young.
    Having got up to speed with anti-aging medicine, hormonal modulation, optimal diet and exercise etc. I’m grateful for being able to enjoy a second adolescence at age 58.

  59. Barring anabolic steroid use, it is a physical impossibility for a woman to want sex, think about sex or perform for sex more than a man:

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/04/women-sex/

    Men will strap explosives to their bodies and blow themselves up for the possibility of pussy in another dimension. No woman is willing to blow herself up for a penis. – Joe Rogan

    If Michele Weiner Davis (hyphenated last name noted) and her friends are having trouble getting their men interested in sex with them, they need to look at how they present themselves sexually.

  60. It is horrible actually. After reading you for about a year now… I’ve realized no woman is exempt from hypergamy… it’s horrible. It’s true what you’ve written about opportunistic love versus the kind of love men usually exhibit – totally different. Men are way too idealistic if they’re “beta” – they really do have horrible issues with putting the woman of their dreams on a pedestal. And NO woman likes hearing that (unless its rare confirmation of his love – but certainly not all the time). Husbands should be wide awake to their wife’s real personality/shortcomings, she’s human & they need to keep that in mind… keep “in frame” as you said. 😦

  61. Now compare and contrast the Michele Weiner Davis speech with one from this most fem-centric of fashionable therapists, Esther Perel. Look closely at her distinctions between “adventure”, “risk” and “self-confidence” as desire triggers – a/k/a AF – and “comfort”, “security” and “selflessness” as desire/erotic killers – a/k/a BB. Even if you gag on the conclusions she makes, look at how evo psych and hypergamy concepts are slowly beginning to sink in and get some recognition as “breakthroughs” in so-called mainstream LTR therapy.

  62. From elsewhere the comment is: “And if you’re Catholic, divorce is not an option, i.e., you won’t be able to get a second wife unless you want to go to hell, so it’s either be ALPHA or give up women entirely.”
    .
    As has been pointed out, desire is not negotiable–I no longer desire to be anything to the mad bitch that turned. That leaves one option.

  63. girlwithadragonflytattoo – “Husbands should be wide awake to their wife’s real personality/shortcomings, she’s human & they need to keep that in mind…”

    At any point does the woman consider the man’s humanity without the metaphorical emasculation?

    And since you’re here…

    How does “opportunistic” love benefit the man if at all?

  64. @ ReticentPill – I try to resist coming to the kind of negative conclusions that you have come to – but I’m finding less and less reason to do so. In fact, as I digest the Sexual Conflict Theory stuff jf12 is sharing, I’m afraid my defenses are just crumbling.

    It’s the simplicity of the ideas that make it unavoidable. Women spend most of their energy resisting men – men spend their energy trying to unify with women, to become closer, to gain agreement. When you factor in the different costs (we have one million one dollar shots, they have ten one hundred thousand dollar shots) of course they will optimize differently. For men, there might as well be no limits in terms of our desired outcomes wrt sexual partners. For women it’s EXTREMELY constrained. They make one mistake and they have changed their lives forever. Hence our behavior towards each other has to be different.

    I also think this factors into shit testing as it’s an interim fitness test. I was such a good gynocentric dingbat that I didn’t understand intellectually that attraction and love are a “now” concept for women. Me? I didn’t see my ex-wife as an exchangeable part, but she saw me that way and when I didn’t keep her moist and keep generating the love fantasy for her, she was a dreadfully nasty person.

    Being very hot, she also didn’t have to work to get that – many men were willing to sign up to take her shit if I didn’t. Don’t get me wrong – I did everything wrong with her except putting my foot down after a couple of years of marriage (and even did that in a BP way). In fact, I would say this is where my Red Pill journey began some 25 years ago, when I decided that I had too much dignity to be treated like that. I remember just after separating, my ex was in the house with my daughter and I was staying with a friend in Brooklyn, another divorced guy, sleeping on his couch as I tried to figure out my next move. I woke up in his shitty basement apt, and realized that any day I didn’t wake up next to someone who hated me and treated me like shit was a good day.

    There is justice though. The hotter the woman, the harder age is on her as her plummeting SMV is such a shock to her. Beautiful women have been the center of attention in every room she’s walked into in her whole life – and suddenly now she’s invisible. My ex now is such a pathetic shell of a human being at 54. Instead of making something of herself and her life, she rode men like horses and now she’s stuck just with herself – saggy, dried out and empty. Sadly, she doesn’t even understand it – her narrative is “men ruined my life”, lol. Between me and her other ex, we easily showered her with $1,000,000+ in her life and treated her like a princess – but she’s the victim. Now she’s left with no skills, no talents, no hobbies, not even that many friends – you see, just having a world class ass was good enough for her. Not anymore…

    Me? I have my music, my writing, my career, friends and many interests and other skills I cultivated during a lifetime of work and self-improvement. Her emptiness, her smallness is all she’s left with and frankly, I can’t think of another cunt who deserves it more richly.

    The point for you women? Don’t kid yourselves – your day in the sun is shortlived and if you aren’t kind on the way up, don’t be surprised if guys like me laugh at you on the way down, and accelerate it if we can. Like how I caused her to go bankrupt 15 years after we split – it was too much fun to watch her lose her house, marriage and credit all in a short 6 months when she stupidly overplayed her hand seeking more child support from me (when my daughter had just turned 18, lol, she’s such stupid cunt) and instead lost it all and i was only responsible for a portion of college. I think some woman she knew told her she could do so but she of course has no idea how the law actually works. I could have helped her or been more flexible to work out a transition, but instead I cut her off suddenly (legally) and brutally because she tried to play hardball with me. Funny without “child support” she could no longer afford her lifestyle and the whole house of cards built on stupid amounts of debt crumbled. And then the husband bolted too.

    She deserved it. It didn’t even go to court – her own lawyer clued her in after she threatened me. Bad idea to threaten me, very bad idea…But even this is part of her story is about how I fucked her over – get that. I was actually overpaying child support by 20%, voluntarily and for all health care and many other expense, and she thought I should continue to pay all the child support to her and also for all of college. 11 years after we divorced. Her sense of entitlement and victimhood know no bounds. And really, how many women are just the same? AWALT.

  65. I’m a lurker on this blog and I’ll like to say something in regards to the whole “Alpha Widow” reasoning.

    You’re correct in this regard. I’m a fairly young man (mid 20s) and I grew up with 12 girl cousins. Ten of my cousins were very attractive women (not to toot my family’s own horn but we’re all pretty attractive). Anyway, most of us were close to the same age growing up, and looking back, I can definitely assure you all that most women turn Alpha Widows by their 18th birthday. I’ve had many of my cousins cry at our family parties and reunions over that one Alpha they just couldn’t get over. Most were anywhere from 14-16, when they first experienced their Alpha love. Guys have to understand that when girls are very young, they don’t typically select their partners for beta qualities. They look for alpha qualities first and foremost. That 25 year old you’re gaming but can’t seem to crack? She probably has wet dreams over that one alpha who ruthlessly pumped and dumped her when she was 16.

    A good way to know if you have an alpha widow on your hands is if she deems all men as “pigs” or if she, in general, condemns men for anything. She was probably used as some cheap whore in the past and regardless of how angelic she may look to you, she’ll never forget those men who viewed her as a pump and dump.

    Anyway, 7 of my cousins are already married and 2 more are on their way. I say all of this because this past Christmas we all got together again and recalled back when we were teenagers barely getting our feet wet with the opposite sex. I told one of my cousins (who’s married by the way) that I saw R_____ (her past Alpha love) and instantly, she turned nostalgic. It didn’t matter that she was already 4 years married and with two kids. She turned into Rose from The Titanic for a second there, lol.

    While it is true that women do forget some their former lovers (namely, the betas they have settled with) they always remember that one alpha when they were young. Most men who marry, are marrying a girl who isn’t completely into them. Their first Alpha love is always lurking somewhere deep inside her mind.

  66. @Bad Painter – Of course some women do consider their husband’s humanity (I adore my husband and even after almost 8 years, I do care immensely about his needs and love meeting them always, we (except for weird times like late pregnancy or right after birth) usually have amazing sex and almost daily. I just look at him, like sometimes he just walks in our house coming home from work, and I seriously get turned on just seeing him – he looks so damn in his “frame” maybe or maybe its that he’s desired by other women (and I know this… dread game anyone?) – my point was just that to some degree, a husband shouldn’t just “trust” that his wife would never cheat on him. When I was working in research, I had men flirting with me frequently – he also has women flirting with him frequently. We both love what we have – and appreciate what we have. Hypergamy is very real (and pretty evil). I think I’ve read Rollo say something about this – that about his own marriage, he’s not naiive enough to think that his wife is above that (if given the circumstances were as such). Basically, the best advice has already been stated here – men need to have their own self-worth in place before getting married (or serious with a woman), they need to improve and work on themselves or their life FOR THEMSELVES. I’m serious… don’t think you’re only doing these things so that you can please a woman or game them, do this for you, value yourself. Just being this kind of man is going to make women drawn to you (and desire you well into your marriage).

    To me, its possible for women to rise above their hypergamous tendencies or there would be no good marriages (which clearly, there are good marriages… just very few).

    @Glenn – the comments are chilling because its so true… and seeing (as a woman) how we can be is just very sad. Reading these examples is just very sad…. Women have so much power to make or break their marriage, I wish more would realize how beautiful it can be – instead of ripping it to shreds and the men (and children) along with it.

  67. @Rollo writes:

    As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose – a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity.

    If the next book lays out these chilling truths with with the kind of enlightened clarity you’ve written in this post, we’ll be buying the #1 best-selling book for the next 11 years.

  68. Reblogged this on Livefearless and commented:
    Rollo Tomassi writes
    “As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose – a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity.”

    If the next book lays out these chilling truths with with the kind of enlightened clarity you’ve written in this post, we’ll be buying the #1 best-selling book for the next 11 years.

  69. @girlwithadragonflytattoo

    To me, its possible for women to rise above their hypergamous tendencies

    No.

    Your examples you just illustrated with showed that it’s your husband that overcomes your hypergamy through his actions. You cannot escape your biology just like he can’t escape his polygynous nature without your making a concerted effort to maintain his attention. To say otherwise is to set yourself up for failure.

    The whole thing starts with a man’s burden of performance resulting in the woman being inspired to perform for him. If he ever stops, things will end. Her hypergamy will assert itself when any bonding that occurred over time fades.

  70. “It’s not her wanting to leave, it’s her lingering around, comfortable with her disrespected Beta, and his inability to change that situation. ”

    That’s the situation I find myself in. I confronted her recently and said that our sex life (1/mo and when she’s horny) isn’t good enough for me. She says she doesn’t want sex because I only approach her when I want sex, and I don’t cuddle on the couch with her enough. But at this point, I don’t care to cuddle with a crabby, negative bitch who doesn’t want to sleep with me.

    What do I, a slowly recovering beta w/ 3 kids, do here?

  71. @Damntull

    Say nothing to her, but make a few changes that make you more attractive to all women. Start working out, update your wardrobe, get a new haircut, and embrace the attention you get by flirting in front of her with other women. Dread game. When she complains, let her know she’s competing with them by giving vague answers with a smirk. Let her fume. Then enjoy angry sex.

  72. @ girlwithadragonflytattoo
    After reading you for about a year now… I’ve realized no woman is exempt from hypergamy… it’s horrible.

    As a man I don’t have a problem with the basic concept of hypergamy. The fact that women want to marry up makes rational, evolutionary sense. However I don’t respect opportunistic branch swinging. That’s not cool.

    As I see it the real problem with hypergamy is that the average man doesn’t know it exists. The MSM and popular culture in general have it on a 24/7 news blackout. Feminists have labeled it too offensive to even mention. Thus the average man has been shielded from critical information that would help him make the most important decision of his life i.e. who to marry and when. I’m a big supporter of marriage and LTRs in general. But men need to know the facts before they jump in. They are being lied too by everyone.

  73. @ Rollo
    Hypergamy is much more than just ‘marrying up’.

    I’m referring to the dictionary definition of hypergamy, not necessarily the knock on effects like branch swinging.

    Hypergamy
    Hypergamy (colloquially referred to as “marrying up”) is the act or practice of marrying someone wealthier, or of higher caste or status than oneself. Although the term is not gendered, it is generally used by social scientists to refer to women marrying higher-status men, rather than to men marrying higher-status women.

  74. It’s like you were married with me. I can’t understand how you can so eloquently describe the intimate moments of my marriage and its destruction. Young guys please listen, this is truth distilled.

  75. @ girlwithadragonflytattoo

    Thank you or your response to my first question.

    I would note you completely avoided my second question. Which I take as an being an answer itself. So I thank you for your response to my second question as well.

  76. @tgwadft, re: “its possible for women to rise above their hypergamous tendencies”

    Yes! It’s *exactly* as easy for women to do so as for men to rise above their polygamous tendencies.

  77. @Damntull,
    I can tell you from decades of doing so that cuddling doesn’t work. Sun Wukong correctly recommends Dread game. In addition to his suggestions, I add: get yourself new underwear without telling her first. You go to the store and spend a little while and don’t get the cheapest kind.

  78. @jf12, I disagree. There is NO socially mandated expectation for a woman to do anything but embrace her innate Hypergamy. It’s called being prudent.

    Conversely there is nothing BUT an expectation for men to rise above and sublimate their polygamous sexual imperative – for the benefit of women optimizing their “prudent” sexual strategy.

  79. Thanks for the reply, Sun. Tough thing is, I’m already in shape and dress well. I don’t know if dread game is possible for me – I really don’t want to put my kids through divorce.

  80. @ Rollo
    Escoffier is entirely correct in his comment about the dark side of hypergamy.

    As to marriage, sure women want to marry up. But this does not exhaust the effects of hypergamy. Women can marry up–both intrinsically and in their own mind–and still ditch their catch because someone “better” comes along. That is hypergamy at work.

    Although every woman’s brain is biologically hard-wired for bad behavior not every woman will act on it even if the opportunity presents itself. Healthy men are hard-wired to desire 21 year old Victoria’s Secret models. I have that computer code in my head and it drove me to find and marry 1 attractive woman. I overrode the darker side of that instinct. I didn’t trade my wife in for a younger woman when she turned 30. I think there are women that overcome the dark, self-destructive side of hypergamy. As young women they don’t spend their 20s riding the cock carousel. They seek out the highest status AFBB attainable, get married and start a family.

    Basically that describes an old school woman.

  81. zdr01dz – “…They seek out the highest status AFBB attainable, get married and start a family.”

    We call them unicorns because they are so few in number.

  82. @Rollo, re: “socially mandated expectation”

    Ok, but we’ll have to disagree about what society is and what mandated means and what expectation is. The *reproductive* trend of our country is for young women in poverty to get pregnant because of laziness.

  83. @Damntull

    ” I don’t know if dread game is possible for me – I really don’t want to put my kids through divorce.”

    She’s counting on exactly this as she heads for the door. Female judo is all about using your sense of duty against you.

  84. “…They seek out the highest status AFBB attainable, get married and start a family.”

    If only that were true. The strategy is one of polygamy with as many AF men she can bang while her peak SMV is effective, and then consolidating on monogamy with the best BB male her waning SMV can effectively warrant (if at all if she waits too long).

    Women’s sexual strategy IS polygamy while it’s effective, and presenting the appearance of virtuousness once monogamy becomes her necessity.

  85. That’s the thing, ReticentPill – she doesn’t appear to be heading for the door. She’s lingering around. She’s safe and “comfortable” enough here, though I think at bottom, unhappy. And I’m unhappy.

  86. @Damntull

    Don’t worry about how she “feels.” She’s already giving her feelings more than enough attention. YOU are the one lingering and soaking up all of her misery. Do you think your kids don’t notice?

    You can be an example to your kids and (hopefully) your wife, or you can sit back and become an example to us. Being stagnant has never been a winning strategy in any situation.

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