Promise Keepers

I had a 25 year old guy relate to me recently how disappointed with himself he was. He’d gotten together with a new girlfriend, made that commitment of exclusive monogamy, and had all the noble intents most betas assume when they enter that form of pseudo-marriage. The problem was that he’d had a fuck buddy for some months prior to his ‘legitimately’ dating his now girlfriend and regrettably had to cut her out of his life. Predictably, the FB was upset as most become when presented with losing the investment of all those sexual encounters unencumbered with little or no emotional rewards. The guy was determined to honor his arrangement with the new GF, but the FB persisted and became more emotionally invested until they settled upon a ‘just friends’ solution to their prior involvement.

After a week the guy has doubts about the GF and since he and the FB are ‘still friends’ they get together to discuss said doubts. Needless to say this discussion then leads to comfortable, reliable, “sure thing” sex with the former fuck buddy and now we come to the regret and disappointment he feels about himself. One might think that this is a simple case of a 25 year old sorting out what works for him sexually and his struggle with monogamy in the light of having other actionable options, but his disappointment doesn’t originate in this.

“I feel like a piece of shit because i promised my self over 10 years ago I would never do this. I broke my only promise to my self that I always stuck with.”

I found it interesting that a then 15 year old boy would have the prescience to make some vow of fidelity to a future girlfriend (or wife) to himself. For obvious reasons he didn’t strike me as particularly religious – he didn’t have a ‘promise ring’ on either for that matter. So what was it?

“I can pick up girls and bed them no problem anymore, but when it comes to relationships, I’m lost completely. And yes I do feel like something is missing with my current GF.”

That explains part of it. Alpha while single, beta when monogamous is a very common theme for the feminized, preconditioned youth of today. And of course in light of having (and having had) other sexual options that Alpha-Single / Beta-Monogamous conflict about a girlfriend is to be expected, but that still didn’t explain the promise or the disappointment adequately.

“I felt like a piece of shit. Over 10 years ago when my Dad cheated on my mom, I PROMISED my self i will never be like my father and cheat. I never cheated ever, until tonight. I feel numb, confused, and dont know what to do.”

Slay the Father

One common theme I’ve encountered amongst the more zealous beta White Knights I’ve counseled over the years has been this determination, bordering on fanaticism, with outdoing the life-performance of their asshole fathers. Before I go on further, many of them had legitimately rotten, alcoholic dads, who were abusive to them and their mothers. Others had the perception of their fathers colored for them either by their ‘strong independent®’ single mothers, or by watching their fathers resolve their own beta tendencies in a post-divorce life. Whatever the case, each of these guys had a mission – to be a better man than their father was, protect their mothers, and by extension the future mother their girlfriends and wives would become for them. His father’s personal failings would be his personal triumphs.

The problem inherent in this modern day Oedipus scenario is that the feminine imperative is more than happy to use it to its universal social advantage. Feminization and its blue-pill conditioning of boys to be better “men” is defined by how well that “man” is acceptable to a feminine culture. Thus we get gender blurring, and boys are taught to pee sitting down by single mothers because “your asshole dad always made a mess and left the lid up.” Better ‘men’, uniquely feminine-acceptable men, pee like women.

The father-hating boy becomes the masculine-hating adult beta male. Feminine social conditioning is cruel to be sure, but nothing cements that conditioning in better than a living example of what a man is not to be and then committing your life to not becoming it. As I stated earlier, those considerations may be legitimate, but the end result is the same; a beta who thinks women will categorically appreciate his devotion to the feminine by his promise not to become like “other guys” – like his asshole dad.

This is in fact a very solid extension of Beta Game‘s presumption that women will view him as unique amongst other men for being so well adapted to identify with the feminine. And of course the majority of women who care more about dominant Alpha characteristics, who have no appreciation for his ‘promise to be a better man’ then become “low quality” common women to him.

This then is the root of the conflict the guy in my example is experiencing. He’s coming into a more mature understanding of what his father experienced with his mother and women, and it’s clashing with that adolescent declaration of devoting himself to what he thought, and what his conditioning at the time, was his imperative.

“If I’m a better man than dad I’ll be deserving of love the way I envision it, I’ll be appreciated and hypergamy will be inconsequential due to the equity I’ll invest in our relationship.”

Only at 25 he progressively finds that he is just as human, just as male, as his father was.

Beyond Oedipus

Unsurprisingly this is a very tough psychological schema to dig out of a beta who’s invested his ego in it for so long. Even when he experiences firsthand the trauma of realizing that women aren’t the way he’s always believed they would be and taking the red pill, this ‘promise to be better’ persists. Layer onto this the social reinforcement of the ridiculous / reprehensible male, and compound it with either his mother’s vulnerability or her consistently negative characterization of his asshole father, and you have a recipe for a permanent blue-pill existence.

That said, it’s not impossible to unplug ‘promise keepers’ with enough harsh, experiential reality to awaken them out of their adolescent paradigms. Making them aware is the toughest task, but introspect on their own part is the next step. It’s very important to recount the ways ‘bad dad’, and your reaction to him, has directed and influenced your interactions with women. It is a supremely uncomfortable epiphany for ‘promise keepers’ to realize that Mom is just as common as the women rejecting him, who are helping him realize his adolescent presumptions were wrong. Most ‘promise keepers’ are shaken awake by two sources: the consistently incongruous behavior-to-stated-motivations by women, or by his own internal struggle with keeping his promise in the face of what he can’t quite place is what’s in his best sexual interests.


93 responses to “Promise Keepers

  • Gangland

    This post… is just brilliant, It really gets to the heart of “most things beta” In fact.. I’d say it describes my before the red pill mindset almost perfectly.

    I fought valiantly to not be like my father, to save my mother, and any woman I came into contact with, from being hurt by such a scumbag like him.

    Whats worse I truly did believe that this made me unique. That most guys were like my father, but not I, I was better, I was nicer, I knew the pain it could cause and I would never do that to my woman. Logically that would mean women would be screaming and falling at my feet for how great a guy i was.

    truth be told, when it’s ingrained like that I don’t think there’s any words you can say better than these that will break someone of this mindset.

    It took a crushing, torturous, soul sucking, heartbreak that completely pulverized any idea I had of what woman should want, like, and need, before my mind would even accept a different way of thinking. Even though I had began reading about game before then.

    This is good stuff though… I love it .. keep it up.

  • Martel

    I think another important aspect of this is that one over-identifies with the pain of the mother. I saw my mother crying myself to sleep at night as a four year-old because of a bastard dad. That fucks with you. It also makes you way too eager to be a good boy so you don’t cause youre mom any more tears.

    However, women are not just gentle flowers. They’ve been battlefield nurses who’ve seen horror upon horror and still managed to do the job.

    I used to be paranoid (still am a bit, but getting over it) about breaking women’s hearts. I did it a time or two, and guess what? They lived.

    I’ve not caused any women to slit their wrists or caused any renditions of “I Dreamed a Dream” among peasant girls because I left them with child as I sauntered away.

    In my core, I’m decent. I don’t want to hurt anyone, but invariably I will. That’s life. It’s been done to me, and I lived, too.

    One concept that gets sapped out of you after going through something like this is “fun”. How can it be fun when either you or her are going to leave the other one shaking on some cement floor somewhere?

    Fuck that. Time for some action.

  • Vicomte

    Wait until he figures out that his dad felt the same way.

    Every. single. time.

  • muscleman

    The one thing you don’t touch on is the emotional repercussion of cheating. I assume it’s easier for women to rationalize it away thanks to the hamster, but for men it’s a little different. It may not even stem from parents or morals or some sense of duty, but rather a knowing transgression of the Golden Rule. No one likes to feel betrayed and in doing it to others there’s a good chance it’s going to happen to you in return. And even if it doesn’t, it’s like a splinter you can’t remove, one that reminds you of its presence every time you see your SO. Is it worth it? I don’t know.

    That’s not to say you can’t entertain multiple relationships where the women silently know (or choose to ignore) that they’re not the only one.

    It’s an interesting topic.

  • taterearl

    Leaving kids to be brainwashed by their mother is one of the worst things that can happen. It’s no wonder why crime stats go up when only mom is around.

    There is always another side of the story. The father could have left because the lady he was with nagged him to death, she refused sex, she put him down in every decision, she secretly cheated on him, she had baggage that would cost extra to fly on a plane. But most men suffer in silence. My guess is the father leaves because the mother was just a terrible person…but guess who gets the wrath of the terrible person while growing up in the formal years, the kids.

  • Martel

    taterearl: You’re undoubtedly right in the majority of cases, but you’re not in every case. There are husbands who are shitbags. Pure and simple.

    I’ve swallowed the red pill because of my fidelity to truth. It’s true that the femmes have tilted the playing field and make the rules. It’s true that single-parent families cause a ton of harm. It’s also true that some guys beat their bitches just for the fuck of it.

    Even though women are usually at fault, they’re not always at fault. Admitting this in no way diminishes from a proper understanding of reality. There are exceptions to every rule. We shouldn’t assume that the exceptions make the rules like the femmis do, but ignoring those exceptions won’t solve anything.

  • taterearl

    And as a side note…the older I get, the more I appreciate my father. I tell him that as often as possible. At the time when I was growing up he was saying nobody ever appreciates him…I couldn’t relate. I was a kid living off his wages. It’s different when you get out into the real world and do the same thing.

    If you are lucky enough to have a good dad I’d suggest you do the same.

  • taterearl

    ” It’s also true that some guys beat their bitches just for the fuck of it.”

    So a guy with a loving woman who supports him, never puts him down, gives him unrestrained access to her vagina decides he’ll punch her in the face for his amusement. If that man exists he deserves a barb wired dildo up his ass.

    I don’t know about you but I have never heard of a man who just likes to beat up women. Have you ever gone up to a woman you never met and just decided to hit her so that you could feel better? Even in the worst case scenario a woman would have to be full nuclear threatening my life before I would go fisty cuffs.

    There’s a fuse in every man…some women just know how to light it correctly.

  • docmarreo

    Fucking Masterpiece

  • me

    Well here is a different subjective perspective. I grew up with a BPD mother who physically assulted my dad on several occasions and on numerous occasions threatened to cut her own wrists.Currently working in threapy for two decades of emotional abuse with recurrent anxiety and panick attacks. Prior to this i was always attracted to woman who were at the same level of emotional maturity as myself or extremely emotionally damaged in some way. Because of consistent need for affection and approaval i became captain save a ho trying to “fix” everything which was born from trying to fix my parents relationship. In conclusion you become codependant. It’s quite funny when you map the the interations as the path becomes quite clear as ive have always choosen women who were damaged and disrespectful fits the dynamic played out in the family home. The other side of the coin essentially

  • Samuel Solomon

    I think one of the key things that can help a beta break out is the realization that they are not special little flowers. Not princesses. They are common, foolish, and even disgusting at times.

    When a guy who pedestalizes has no choice to accept the fact that they are depraved little creatures, just as we are, then he no longer has to accept their imperatives.

  • Martel

    Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented. I’ve never felt the urge to beat random women, but plenty of others have. The Rape of Nanking. The Holocaust. Richard Ramirez. All historical facts. None with good reason. Yes, some people like inflicting pain for its own sake.

    I respect and have no reason to doubt your abhorrence to going “fisty cuffs”, but not everyone’s like you. Watch the movie “City of Life and Death” and then tell me its utterly implausible that some urban thug or looser redneck would never hit his chick for shits and giggles.

    You don’t strike me as evil, but evil is real nonetheless (and it doesn’t help that chicks dig serial killers).

  • Hopeless Romantic

    At least he has a conscience. What ethnic background is he from?
    He say the tragedy that infidelity caused in his parents relationship, not only for them but for him as well, often in infidelity its the children that feel the most betrayed and cheated.

    Its telling that he says bedding women is a piece of cake for him but when it comes to actual relationships, he’s completely lost. That’s Western culture for you. It simply does not do relationships. Its all about rugged individualism and trying your hardest to escape interpersonal commitments and therefore the culture and its elders does not teach the young how to do relationships.

    This is why for Westerners I recommend open relationships and plural marriage because you people simply cannot honor exclusive monogamous marriage for your entire lifetime.

    At least with open marriage maybe you won’t divorce so often.

  • Wilson

    True, sometimes the bad boy is an actual bad boy, not just a PUA simulation, but a woman who chooses him above all others isn’t really a victim. People are violent, but they are also self-destructive. There are more suicides than homicides.

  • Jeremiah

    The Alpha While Single But Beta When Taken is a problem I have experienced. I find that the longer I’m with one particular girl the more difficult it is to perform the alpha male act.

    I guess the solution is to keep plowing away until it’s no longer an act.

  • Emma the Emo

    While what you’re suggesting sounds plausible, the pain of cheating is also a sign he has a conscience and a moral compass. It clashes with his view of himself as a good moral person.

    I put a lot of importance into loyalty and even had a nightmare where I cheated with someone I wasn’t even attracted to. Then felt happy when I woke up and realized it was just a nightmare.

    This is the first thing I thought when I read his words.

  • taterearl

    Cheating:

    When a woman does it the man feels like a failure, when the man does it he feels like a failure.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    A woman is only interested in a man’s “moral compass” in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle.

  • Emma the Emo

    Moral compass is a thing you do and maintain for yourself.

  • Martel

    Any advice on how to figure out where in the cycle a woman is when you’re just getting to know her?

  • youngmanrp

    long time reader, rollo, and this post is spot on. I’m in a similar situation to your case study, 25, ltr with a great girl. Out of a relationship, I have no problem with girls when I’m not in a relationship. But then the question comes up inevitably in your mind, even if the relationship you are in is solid: Is it time to cash in your chips and be a man of your word in an LTR? I’m having the same issue right now, and haven’t cheated, but whenever I find myself in a social situation where I’m flirting with a girl, I often get her number just for sport, you could say. My take is there’s no good answer, really.

  • Phinn

    The problem with having an asshole father is not only that you’re pressured into White Knighting for your mother, who will often PRAISE you for being the diametric opposite of your father, but that your role model of masculinity is not only absent but affirmatively negative, and thus to be avoided.

    Every beta impulse I ever had originated from my asshole father. If my mother weren’t certified as crazy, I would probably have believed what she said about marriage and men and life, and gone my whole life adopting her frame. Oddly enough, it was her mental illness that actually saved me from buying into her errors, hook-line-and-sinker.

    The best cure I know is to remind yourself every day to NEVER take advice about women from women.

    Or, if you must listen to women, begin by assuming that the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they recommend is your best bet. You’ll be right more often than you are wrong.

    I used to think they lied on purpose. Now I know they have a blind spot as to their own motivations, for evolutionary reasons.

  • piercedhead

    I think you are being a little hard on the guy in attributing his motivations to beta-tude and an overly feminist-favoring home life. Certainly, in his case, these factors likely framed the outcome, but what is being ignored is probably way more important. That is our very masculine aptitude for rules. If we are denied a structure to our lives, we will very quickly fill that void with rules of our own. That is our inheritance as males, being as we are the favored sex with regard to eliminating all problems by first visualising the source, then the system, then the responses that eliminate those problems.

    Choosing to be a better man than ones father is only one small example of a mind that wants to put things right. I leave it as an open question which sex is more likely to assume such a stance – but I have noticed that women tend to spend much less time dreaming up rules for themselves compared to the time they spend on rules for others.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “A woman is only interested in a man’s “moral compass” in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle.”

    Another Yahoo News new-age-pop-culture-evo-psych-for-dummies sound byte.

    Individuals with moral compasses are interested in their mate’s moral compass all the time. That’s what makes moral people compatible with one another.

    [Until it conflicts with women's innate Hypergamy, then it's a liability. Hypergamy doesn't care about moral compasses.]

    “The problem with having an asshole father is not only that you’re pressured into White Knighting for your mother, who will often PRAISE you for being the diametric opposite of your father, but that your role model of masculinity is not only absent but affirmatively negative, and thus to be avoided. ”

    Like I said, its usually the children who feel the most betrayed and carry the heaviest burdens of infidelity.

    Does anyone here care about that?

  • piercedhead

    “Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented. I’ve never felt the urge to beat random women, but plenty of others have. The Rape of Nanking. The Holocaust. Richard Ramirez. All historical facts. None with good reason. Yes, some people like inflicting pain for its own sake.:”

    This is a confusing message.

    On the one hand we have words like “unbounded” and “plenty” to describe the evil of men (of both genders), and then we have “some people like inflicting pain for its own sake”.

    Personally, I have never met a man in my entire life who liked inflicting pain on any woman, or who at least expressed such a view. I accept that such a statement may not be statistically relevant, but it is nevertheless true. This makes me ask rather obvious questions like “why should my experience of life be less real than that reported by others?”.

    This does not deny the possibility of some men being abusive to women, but it does not allow the immediate acceptance of “some men are women beaters, whilst no women are just as bad”. In fact, my personal experience has been that women are much more abusive tham men. Again, I know this is personal only. Again, why is my experience necessarily less true than anyone else’s?

    I have come to believe that statements like “Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented” are little more than cultural scripts that have currency, but are rarely based on any immediate truth. Few of us seem to have any real experience of the brutality of men – and I would add the beneficence of women beyond our own mothers (if we are lucky) – yet to constantly re-inform of the presence of both seems to have become part of the way we talk. It is not truth.

  • Demarcated Values

    I agree @piercedhead. Below are some varying opinions on this example. Always a pleasure to read, Rollo.

    He probably made the mistake of becoming trapped by the “rules” & examples provided by the provocateurs of Game “Theory”.

    It’s funny how Game both teaches men how to have it and makes them well-learned in avoiding practicing it. Most men simply aren’t capable of living up to the “Alpha” standards pedestalized by PUA. Incapable because of the sheer retardation & ridiculousness such a character espouses & represents in how it’s often described – though that’s also often an opinion fostered by those incapable of performing to a greater or lesser degree in such a fashion.

    Game is like the first step toward becoming Beta, as no one was Beta until they read about how they were. It teaches men that lesser beings exist, and that they are amongst them. In order to walk with the Giants, they soon believe their Teachers actually know something of value. Really, their teacher’s are having questions they have time to ask, answered by their students; or (if not altering their publicly popular opinion for the sake of realignment plus validating proofs & examples) avoid learning what higher intellects present, label it as “Beta” or “_____” (insert ‘shaming’ – a term used in the manosphere – phrase, & immediately shunned becomes the new paradigm).

    Had he not considered what he was doing liable to the suggestion of others, he likely wouldn’t have been negatively affected by his choice of action. Were he to have, say, done what he admittedly knew was right, rather than (I’m guessing) found a way to rationalize what he knew was wrong, no mistake would’ve been available to make in the first place.

    Game has taught so much regarding Game that I don’t even know if people who practice Game can claim to know what Game is – beyond Men becoming more capable of discussing things that, in the end, don’t matter – insignificant mind fodder to distract one from one’s actual purpose – and oh! so addicting too. Though I know who I was, am, and will be. And I’m all the same for it.

    In the last couple of days Game has landed me hook ups, numbers, fucks, hot girls, interesting guys of higher status behaving like the girls they were chasing around me, and nothing but being alone in the end. Alone with a lot of women who want me to be with them, but I can’t commit to, or I know they will be unable to commit to considering.

    I can relate to what that 25 year old was describing. Rollo has some great insight, however I know exactly what he’s going through. I’ve been RIGHT THERE. I liken it to a certain awakening, regarding understanding how women operate conditionally in relation to perception, and desire doing so as it ensures duplicity, whereas men are conditioned to operate according to their given environment.

    Some people simply have actual inborn values & standards, need to accept that, and should heed offering faith in the illuminations of others who don’t operate via an complementary or harmonizing frequency.

    One can only be a Lucifer in costume, much the same as one can only become an Angel in invisibility; unless one is a Devil behind the mask, or a Saint in humble precognition.

    Or, you can take the easier route, and accept: well, I am fucking this girl, and I am fucking that girl. I like this girl, and I really like this other girl. I can only be as honest as I am, therefore I will do what is right, and move forward despite the consequences. Either way, I have girls that want to fuck me, so that’s that. And it is what it is. Ask Solomon, Montague, Henry de Bergiac, Mallarme, Cesaire, or a Cricket, and they’ll all tell you the same thing: in noise there’s safety, in numbers there’s herded wisdom, and in silence – which endures beyond the rose-hued sky – cats pounce.

  • Demarcated Values

    @Hopeless Romantic

    I do. Care.

    Though I don’t believe it’s anything worth making a fuss over, anymore.

    Because things have changed, they will continue to.

    Our parent’s mistakes are our burden to bear, in needing to learn in example how to escape what scenario’s lead them to what situations we witnessed as being destructive. Then again, the only way to avoid becoming different than them is to become like them first – to understand why the infidelity surfaced, and to not let yourself fall victim to such a preyed upon perception of reality – namely, that which led one to study the precepts of Game and conceptualize ones own version of it.

    Where Religion fails, Science reigns. When Science bores, Magic or Shamanism or Pseudo-science or Mysticism or Alternate-Methods-of-Achieving-the-Same-Results take the throne. After that Rationalization & logic remove the nonsense of what Religion led to Science which resulted in the Mysticism that provokes the emergence of greater sciences that diffuse the prevalent theme’s of a culture’s microcosmic undulations. Resulting always in a feudal battle between specifications, ending in linguistics/semantics, and reverting to what dogmatic syllogisms define the day and Age when an Epoch has ended in order to welcome the infantile New Aeon that’s ushered in Silence behind the Scenes by what Beacons of Power set the Stage.

    See, read Shakespeare, or Robert Walser. Or anyone else for that matter. You’ll see that no one can change what instinctually drives them towards extinction – the flower’s of Baudelaire’s ‘Evil’ in dichotomy with the little boy sweeping Chimney’s in Blake’s representation of England to what America he defined – as he not only had, but decided to like Dante Create the Time to describe.

    In description we produce Science Fiction, which in Reality becomes Truth – as it effects those who choose to read it, and confirm their own Imagination’s.

    There is but one Reality, and it is this one. We all are here. It’s nonsense. Few care to accept it, few less still are able to be bothered by it, and even few more are capable of influencing a change within it.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @Hopeless, you rely far too much on the pollyanna idealism of People are People. Biology trumps conviction.

  • Demarcated Values

    That’s a good one: “Biology trumps conviction.”

    I must add, one should know: a Trump’s a card – designed for a purpose. ROTA. Which is as resolute of an illusion as every other idea marketed. Brilliant in execution as per the rarity of those capable of comprehending solve et coagula.

    Arcana. More feared than the rest we’re taught to play with; or learn via social standards we ought not endorse – lest in secret – for Good’s Reason. Because, by design, one Trump’s ‘arcane’ compared to the sacral offering of an Other’s representation, of the guiding matrices’ axiom of Correspondence as Wisdom.

    And despite the flaws of enraptured circular logic, the Effect of pulling a Trump over a Suit remains ever-presciently the same: it’s cause is it’s Creator, and it’s benefactor is Who’s deluded.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “Though I don’t believe it’s anything worth making a fuss over, anymore.

    Because things have changed, they will continue to.”

    Of course change is inevitable. Right now you’re witnessing the transition from failed monogamy to somewhat successful open marriages. Within 3 decades that will be the norm, though its hard to predict if it will lower the divorce rate of Western people.

    “Hopeless, you rely far too much on the pollyanna idealism”

    Idealism? You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m the one who says Western people are incapable, possibly genetically, of sustaining lifelong monogamous commitments and therefore should quicken the transition into open marriage.

    “Biology trumps conviction.”

    Of course, for you people. You don’t do conviction. Hence why I employ two entirely different relationship models in my global work; one for the cultures West of Turkey and one for the cultures East of.

  • Demarcated Values

    Interesting. Can you elucidate this Eastern/Western dynamic of yours? Or point me to where you’ve possibly written about it before.

    And yeah, however I don’t think these changes are anything new, they’re just part of the cycle that occurs every 100 years or so.

  • OlioOx

    2 quick questions — first, for Hopeless Romantic — what’s this man-respecting culture of yours that you’re so proud of? Pakistani?

    Second question — why is the ‘Alpha Game’ blog referred to as ‘Aunt Giggles’? I’m not getting the inside joke here.

  • Martel

    “I have come to believe that statements like ‘Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented’ are little more than cultural scripts that have currency, but are rarely based on any immediate truth.”

    That’s because WE’RE LUCKY AS HELL. Extreme brutality has been the norm in damn near every society, large and small, until the West, and the West was brutal almost without exception until the 19th Century (only to revert back in the 20th with the Nazis and Commies). Aztec human sacrifice. Samurai behedding random people at will to test their new swords. Romans crucifying thousands of people at the same time (including children). The Middle Passage during the slave trade. Ancient Greeks leaving their infants in the wilderness to get eaten by wild animals. The list goes on FOREVER, and it’s real whether or not anybody likes it, and it’s real today in places like Mali and North Korea, even if you’ve never been there.

    I never claimed that “your experience” is either more or less valid than anyone else’s, but sometimes somebody’s “experience” is quite exceptional, and that would include all of us who can type away at our computers instead of have to fight some wild animal over our next meal.

    Cruelty is real and not confined to either gender (Catherine the Great, Bloody Mary, etc). Even though few of us act it out, that’s in large part because we’re afraid of getting caught and our moral substructure has yet to entirely disintegrate.

    But German reservists who shot four year-old Jews in the back of the head and Japanes soldiers who gang raped thousands of Chinese and Korean women to death were just average teenagers a few years earlier.

    It’s real, and thank God we were born in a place and time where, despite the evils of the Matriarchy, we’re fortunate enough not to have to deal with it.

    Time to leave. I gotta do at least five approaches tonight.

  • Martel

    “Aunt Giggles” is Susan Walsh of Hooking-Up-Smart. Vox Day of alphagame sometimes comments there (I think, I’ve never been).

  • OlioOx

    Cheers Martel. By the way, everyone should read Steven Pinker’s latest opus, The Better Angels of Our Nature (it’s huge but you can just read a few key chapters to get the point.) It exhaustively documents how violence has gradually but steadily declined throughout human history, and continues to decline today. World Wars I and II were anomalous blips in this otherwise steady decline, and all the small regional conflicts that our constantly in the news are terrible of course, but the total numbers of casualties involved, year after year, nevertheless correspond to the general pattern of decline.

    Check iSteve for a recent post mentioning some current objection to Pinker’s calculations by a reputable statistician, can’t put my hands on it at the moment, but Pinker responded apparently.

  • greenlander

    OlioOx, I didn’t find any reference to “Aunt Giggles” in this blog post or the discussion. But when people in the ‘sphere refer to “Aunt Giggles” they’re normally referring to Susan Walsh, who runs a blog called “Hooking up Smart”

  • Dillon

    “Promise Keepers” are also the type who believe in love based marriage.

    They promise “to love till death”. The problem with this is that no one can honestly predict how one will feel at anytime in the future.

    No matter how much “in love” one is, the feeling can end at any time without much of a warning. Humans are dynamic beings and their preception, mood and feelings keep changing as they grow almost on a daily basis. Anyone who promises to keep loving in future is either a fool or a liar.

    A man can promise to “try to provide” for a woman in return something but love is not in the realm of conscious action.

    ======================================

    Also a man who fails to understand women will get used and suffer in any society or culture. Eastern or Western.

  • WorkInProgress

    For those who don’t know anyone who likes to beat on women, remember we tend to hang out and befriend others who share our values and tastes. Assholes run in packs. (My dad was a cop. Trust me — wife-beaters aren’t just cheap-ass t-shirts.)

    Like you guys, I don’t personally know any wife beaters. And if I did, it’s exit stage right at the earliest possible opportunity. Why hang around a walking, breathing dumpster fire if you have a chance to get away from the mess???

  • YaReally

    Problem with a lot of them is because dating lots of women is “asshole behavior”, they don’t get enough exposure with women to learn what they’re really like and hit the turn-around points Rollo mentions.

    The type of chick I thought I wanted when I was 20 and had no experience with women is like the complete 180 of what I’ve found I’m ACTUALLY attracted to, now that I’ve met a ton of women. If I had settled down with the girl I thought I wanted at 20, I’d be like this guy right now, straying on her and feeling guilty for it.

    Guys who grow up with multiple sisters generally don’t become White Knights because they grew up seeing what girls and groups of girls are like when no one else is around and they know not to take them seriously. Once of the best Natural players I’ve ever met had 5 sisters.

    Once you’ve been around enough chicks, you learn that Promise Keeping and White Knight behavior are completely ridiculous notions and will fuck you over in the long-run, and that most women just aren’t worth that kind of noble shit and are actively turned off by it despite what Feminism brainwashes into you.

    From there, as I’ve said in the past, you either go down the path of Depression or Acceptance:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/comment-of-the-week-sexual-self-control-is-a-male-thing/#comment-367897

  • YaReally

    Also with regards to hitting…I’ve known guys who hit girls. I’ve also known girls who like being hit. There’s a lot of grey area when the two of them start a relationship. The fucked up part is that in some cases it actually works for them.

    I think it’s hilarious that Rhianna’s shit-show with Chris Brown was pretty much an uppercut in the taint of feminist-types. “How could she go back to him???” What a mind-fuck for everyone in the MSM lol

    P.S. I’ve never hit a girl. Except in the bedroom if she likes that.

  • Sadoeconomist

    Am I the only one here who’s into BDSM? I enjoy causing pain and my masochist lovers enjoy receiving it. Sadism is only evil if it’s not consensual. And everyone saying they’ve never met someone who enjoys causing pain is being awfully naive. You don’t know what your friends and neighbors are doing behind closed doors. I guarantee that some of them have floggers in their closets.

    Also, ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ map pretty well onto ‘dominant’ and ‘submissive.’ If you want to understand power dynamics in sexual relationships, you should look at the most advanced practitioners: the BDSM community. A lot of Game is just rebranded warmed-over D/s, I think a lot of PUAs don’t understand just what kind of game it is that they’re playing.

  • BALZAC

    Nope, you’re not the only one.

    BDSM, however, is not violence.

    Nobody is really hurt.

    On the contrary.

  • taterearl

    “Guys who grow up with multiple sisters generally don’t become White Knights because they grew up seeing what girls and groups of girls are like when no one else is around and they know not to take them seriously. Once of the best Natural players I’ve ever met had 5 sisters.”

    That’s probably why it took me a while to get girls…I grew up with one brother and had a nice brainwashing through school and the media.

    But yeah you date and interact with enough girls you begin to see what they really are.

  • taterearl

    …and hitting a girl because she gets pleasure out of it, is a different scenerio from the one I said about a guy hitting a girl for his amusement.

  • Tam the Bam

    Hopeless:
    “Of course, for you people. You don’t do conviction.” LOL I do. Of course, being a brit, I nicked it from some enlightened foreigner. You ain’t seen me right?

    “Idealism? You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m the one who says Western people are incapable, possibly genetically, of sustaining lifelong monogamous commitments “.
    I’m really quite keen to see your citations for that revolutionary hypothesis.

    Ah, most astute.
    “Hence why I employ two entirely different relationship models in my global work; one for the cultures West of Turkey and one for the cultures East of.”
    What “work” would that be, pray? Intriguing …
    It appears to clearly differentiate between the genetically lifelong monogamists of the Ottoman Empire and related cultures, and a previously unrecognised sweaty swingers’ free-for-all in Europe, from royalty downwards, since the fall of the Roman Empire to (.. I dunno, the Beatles usually get the blame for it all so) .. 1963?

  • Wilf

    I’ve been thinking about my non-relationship with my father for a while now and your post is pretty much the template that I fall into. It was kind of a perfect storm – having an asshole, alcoholic dad and being a young adult at the apex of feminism in the mid 80s to mid 90s. This cemented me as a nice guy, white knight, mangina happily towing the feminist line. As sad and difficult as this is to say, there was a time when I was ashamed of being a man. I am so glad that those days are behind me.

    I realize now that my dad has some neurological issues that were never identified when he was young, and that he is self-medicating with alcohol. We’ll never be best buds, but I really try to concentrate on his good character traits and dedication to provide for his family with little highscool education and a blue-collar trade. We never lacked for anything.

    The positive side is that now that I have kids, I know not to repeat the same behaviours that were so hurtful to me and my brother.

    @YaReally re: Chris Brown

    “I think it’s hilarious that Rhianna’s shit-show with Chris Brown was pretty much an uppercut in the taint of feminist-types. “How could she go back to him???” What a mind-fuck for everyone in the MSM lol.”

    I think it is hiIarious too. I wonder how long will that guy have to pay for that dust-up?

    Re: Provocation to Violence

    My wife would have a pattern of provoking me verbally and then invading my space physically to the point that it would make me fly off the handle, and grab her, or push her away.

    Just curious as to whether or not anyone else has observed these fight patterns in their relationships?

    The first time it happened, I felt horrible and went even more beta afterwards. But then, I noticed there was a pattern, a certain sequence of events in the fight, where she wasn’t going to back off until I exploded.

    Now that I recognize it, and have Red Pill wisdom, I more often than not won’t take the bait. I just walk away.

    I’ll never understand why little girls want to poke the bear. Your ‘strength and independence’® doesn’t protect you from harsh animal realities of life.

  • Tam the Bam

    “Watch the movie “City of Life and Death” and then tell me its utterly implausible that some urban thug or loser redneck would never hit his chick for shits and giggles.”
    Martel, you don’t even need to watch movies.
    Here’s some Scum-Cam recording from quaint old London Town the other day.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9692807/Police-release-shocking-CCTV-footage-of-unprovoked-attack-on-teenager.html

    Only unusual in that it was daylight, and he wasn’t hiding his face (in the Land of Permanent Mass Surveillance? You what? ; that’s mainly why they’re all ranting and raving about him being a “foreigner” in the comments. First rule of brit club .. don’t smile! you’re on Candid Camera. Everywhere & Always. Now wash your hands please).
    Even weirder is the cops actually bothered to arrest somebody, and pronto.

  • Martel

    “Of course, for you people. You don’t do conviction.”

    Fuck you. Especially because it’s a comment on this post.

    We’re not here because we lack conviction, we’re here because we have convictions but they’ve been used against us. Yes, Beta is a strategy, but sometimes it’s also genuinely trying to do the right thing.

    I’m sure I’m not alone here in that time after time I was crapped on by women I genuinely cared about. If my competition for Tracy or Sara or Nicole (this list goes on) were other guys I thought were decent, I would have backed off because their welfare as fellow human beings actually mattered to me. I saw pain. My White Knight wanted to help cure it, but even more than that, I saw undeserved suffering and I wanted it to stop.

    We’re drawn to this blog because as men who found that the universal response to our convictions was a big, fat, crap sandwich. We’ve come to the conclusion that if your goodness leaves you alone another night while the girl you care for is giving a BJ to some random frat dude in the bathroom of a bar, well, maybe that kind of goodness isn’t so good after all.

    I accept convictions but refuse to be sentenced any longer.

    What Hopeless and the like will never get is that most of us here used to agree with her. We’re mostly Hopeless Romantics who actually found some hope by ditching the romantics.

    I refuse to repeat those lonely nights where I got that sinking knot in my gut, realizing that probably at that very moment a woman I would do anything for was being pumped by some asshole. I’ve found a way to be something more than that, and I’m taking it.

    Find another sucker Hopeless. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

  • xsplat

    “Cheating:

    When a woman does it the man feels like a failure, when the man does it he feels like a failure.”

    If you frame it as cheating, you are setting yourself up for failure. Either failure by cheating, or by not cheating.

    For myself I never promise monogamy, and refuse to answer questions about where I’ve been.

    It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not really her business. Either way you don’t talk about it. No reassurance, no lies.

  • taterearl

    “It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not really her business. Either way you don’t talk about it. No reassurance, no lies.”

    I find it hilarious when a guy tells his lady some other woman flirted with him but he shot her down. Nothing good can come from that exchange.

  • imnobody

    @Martel said it all. Martel’s story is the story of us all.

    Every guy in the Manosphere used to be a beta, a hopeless romantic, but an intelligent one and it was impossible for the society to lie to him forever. He connected the dots and the rest is history.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    How many times am I gonna link this?

    True Romantics.

  • xsplat

    “My wife would have a pattern of provoking me verbally and then invading my space physically to the point that it would make me fly off the handle, and grab her, or push her away.”

    That’s a classic BPD move. I’ve seen it often, especially from one BPD nutball I lived with.

    Yes, girls will deliberately provoke rage. They win on all sorts of fronts. For one they are addicted to the adrenalin rush of intense emotions. For another they only feel in control of their own minds when they have puppet master like control over your mind. If you are feeling terrible because of her, then she feels all is right in the world. But she knows she can’t just always be bitchy, so she must alternate these episodes with being everything you want her to be; she’ll be the best girl possible and the worst girl possible. The best sex possible, best little love slave possible, and the most evil horrible creature possible. A girl like that would test the will of the most advanced saint, and test it to the breaking point. She will eventually win. Winning, by BPD standards is either killing the man or having him run away.

    A third reason BPD girls try to invoke rage is that she wants him to feel remorseful after hitting her. That gives her hand and she’ll be able to ask for concessions.

    So no matter what happens, never apologize. Never promise not to react again, but explain if she behaves badly again you’ll punish accordingly – it’s up to her.

    There is no winning with a BPD. If you don’t react at all, you are a doormat for abuse. If you do react, she won’t be satisfied until your reactions are extreme, and possibly even illegal.

    Really the only solution is to leave.

    However, there are other techniques. Sometimes it’s acceptable to give an extreme reaction, but if you see she is getting addicted to the drama, then you go one step further. What is a step further? Abandonment. You disappear from her life and don’t answer sms messages or your phone. That is a far greater punishment than screaming or even violence. That can cut the cycle of drama mongering. In alternation with heavy reprimands, abandonment can lead to a workable retraining, with girls who only have BPD traits, and are not full out full time BPD nutjobs.

  • xsplat

    I find it hilarious when a guy tells his lady some other woman flirted with him but he shot her down. Nothing good can come from that exchange.

    However it’s still important for the girl to realize that the man has options, and so invoking jealous dread has it’s place. It depends on how much status she invests you with. If you have plenty of hand and she feels that you have strong options and are not too attached to her, you can be more reassuring and comfort providing. But if she thinks she can do better and you have few options, then it’s appropriate to show her otherwise, and give her cause to fear.

    The advanced trick is to do both at the same time, in the doses called for by the situation. Make her feel like she is a major part of your life and that you share a passionate and deep connection, but realize that you have a big heart that can be shared with many women. She should feel grateful to be a part of your world, but not take her position for granted.

  • taterearl

    My though it she should see it happen with her own eyes rather than you telling her about it. Nothing gets dread going like seeing it with her own eyes. For all she knows…you could be lying if she has never seen it happen in real life.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “They promise “to love till death”. The problem with this is that no one can honestly predict how one will feel at anytime in the future.

    No matter how much “in love” one is, the feeling can end at any time without much of a warning. Humans are dynamic beings and their preception, mood and feelings keep changing as they grow almost on a daily basis. Anyone who promises to keep loving in future is either a fool or a liar.

    A man can promise to “try to provide” for a woman in return something but love is not in the realm of conscious action. ”

    CORRECT. Precisely one of the reasons arranged marriage works.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not really her business. Either way you don’t talk about it. No reassurance, no lies.”

    Agreed. Unless there’s a ring on the finger and a formal, family and society sanctioned official engagement, couples are more or less just dating and free to see whomever they want at any time.

    “No walk before the talk”

  • AlphaBeta

    “He’s such an upstanding, honorable, honest, law-abiding citizen… it makes me so wet!” said no woman ever

  • AnonWriter

    I don’t know if this is on-topic, but I’ve found that when I am in a relationship, there is tremendous pressure to strip myself of whatever attributes and interests I may have that make me feel like a man.

    These pressures, admittedly, are not just external. I’ve been programmed this way, and it is not easy to undo… if that’s even possible. It is this internal pressure to emasculate myself that makes the external pressure have power over me.

    I don’t like being molded into a eunuch, but I am shamed when I don’t act like one, and shame is powerful. I need more time with just men, but all my friends have also been shamed. Guy’s night out only happens maybe once a year now, and even then some of the guys ‘aren’t allowed’ to go.

    These women think they’ve ‘tamed’ their men, but they really have created a race of eunuchs. No wonder they aren’t attracted to their husbands any more. If they want to be married to a man, then they have to be OK with him acting like a man, with them and with other men.

    While I’ve taken the red pill, I still have trouble fighting against my own virtual castration sometimes. Those years of programming are just so ingrained.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “I don’t like being molded into a eunuch, but I am shamed when I don’t act like one, and shame is powerful. I need more time with just men, but all my friends have also been shamed. Guy’s night out only happens maybe once a year now, and even then some of the guys ‘aren’t allowed’ to go.”

    Once a month is reasonable. Some women schedule Ladies’ Night Out once a week so Guys’ Night Out can be once a month.

  • FuriousFerret

    I don’t think we should feed this troll any longer. Just ignore him/her.

  • Martel

    AnonWriter: I struggle with the same things. As moronically irrational is it is, when I’m about to truly make a big step forward, I feel guilty for some dumbass reason and take steps backwards.

    Now that I’m older, when I get in really good shape with low bodyfat, my face is more drawn and I look more my age. However, even if my face isn’t as “cute”, women find me far more attractive, even with my shirt on, probably because they can tell I’m just dying to rip it off.

    But I’ve gotten comments from women in the family on how “gaunt” and “unhealthy” I look, even though 11% bodyfat never killed anybody. Now, when I get to those last few pounds, somehow distractions that never kept me from the gym before or food temptations that never meant anything take hold.

    I’m not quite to that point yet, but in about 3 weeks I will be. Hopefully, this time, because I’m more aware of what’s going on, I’ll be able to combat it a bit better.

    These comment boards and blogs help a ton. Still, I really think we need to try to build communities in person as well. My old friends still see me as a beta and can’t grasp what I’m working towards, and I’m also in a new city.

    Having a real live person to tell me to my face that I’m being a pussy for not approaching or who would tell me that the real way to “man up” is to not skip the gym tonight even though it was a bitch of a day at work would help a ton.

    At the same time, I realize that nobody can do it for me. Sure, it helps if somebody’s there to give you pointers instead of shit after some chick blew you out of the water. But I still gotta do the approach. The fight is mine, always has been, always will be.

    Nobody ever said that Alpha is easy.

  • The Alchemist

    @Martel – Appreciate what you’re doing, you’ll definitely need the company for the approaches, to tell you what you’re doing wrong. IMO though, relying on external conditions, other people to motivate yourself to approach is a pyrrhic victory. Maybe i’m wrong, but shamelessly copy pasting from your comment,

    The fight is mine, always has been, always will be.

    This.

  • Martel

    Alchemist. True, and thanks.

    And I do know that y’all are more than letters on a screen. You may not be there in the bar with me, but in a way, my victories will be yours.

    Still, as I get more involved in this, I may try to set up some sort of red-pill network to help like-minded men find each other.

    I’m sure that Rollo isn’t alone in failing to convince blue-pillers to change their ways, who’ve had incredibly insightful advice fall on deaf WhiteKnight ears. But there are also thousands of us out there who want all the advice we can get. Of course it’s there on God only knows how many forums.

    But role models matter, and a real-live person can have a greater impact. Not enough of us have had decent dads, brothers, etc. Sometimes a person watching you or talking to you can help you solve a problem you never even knew you needed to find a solution for.

    Nevertheless, nothing can replace individual initiative; help can only be its supplement. If a man wants to work it out, he will. It might take more time, but IT WILL BE DONE.

    Good luck on your 100 day project.

  • bob

    Try to have a look at men Clubs throughout history. That’s probably a good way to start your research in how to build a red-pill networks. Nowadays these clubs seem to be high-bourgeoisie’s bullshit, but I’m pretty sure they used to be “accessible”.

  • Pirran

    ““I felt like a piece of shit. Over 10 years ago when my Dad cheated on my mom, I PROMISED my self i will never be like my father and cheat.”

    There’s a big chunk of the problem. I’m guessing Dad was pushed out the door ASAP and the son never got to hear the other side of the story. Sure, he MIGHT have been a scumbag, but there’s a good chance there were any number of contributing factors the son never got to hear about. Was his Dad denied sex for year after year and finally relapsed (denial of sex – the go-to strategy for women since Lysistrata)? Did she continuously humiliate and denigrate him in public? Was he engineered into the relationship breakdown?

    When the father is gone, the mother can manipulate the boy any way she chooses to present herself in the best possible light and the father as the “eveel bad man” of legend (and many women will). Until he talks to his father about it, he’s never going to see the other side and the shadow of his father will loom as large as the guy in the scary helmet. Therein lies the tragedy (and the paradox).

  • gregg

    This boy cheated and he feels guilty. It is not beta thing. It is manly thing. He broke his promise and he feels bad. It is normal, he is the MAN.

    I can do open relationships if I want. In a honest way. But if I choose to be exclusive, that´s a different story. I keep my promise as long as the other party behaves. We are not amoral beings shaped by hypergamy, we are MEN.

  • Martel

    “When the father is gone, the mother can manipulate the boy any way she chooses to present herself in the best possible light and the father as the “eveel bad man” of legend (and many women will). Until he talks to his father about it, he’s never going to see the other side and the shadow of his father will loom as large as the guy in the scary helmet. Therein lies the tragedy (and the paradox).”

    This is often the case, and if you said that it’s usually the case you’d probably be right.

    But it’s not always the case. Everybody but everybody blamed my dad for my parents breakup, including my dad. He was a shitbag and he knows it.

    The problem is that we respond to abusive masculinity by denigrating all masculinity.

    We know that Alpha is value-neutral; the concept recognizes neither good nor evil. The problem is that when we denigrate all masculinity, we render the evil alphas even more powerful, for all we do is create betas who get stomped by them.

    You can have the nicest most noble values in the world, you can be the greatest mix of Christian and lefty do-gooder imaginable. You can believe in Hinduism, Naziism, or whatever else. If you’re a beta, it don’t mean shit. As a beta, the best you can do is impotently support the values of somebody else.

    Whatever you like or don’t like in this world, we live in the feminine Matrix. As an Alpha, you can manipulate this world to your own advantage; as a beta you will be its victim.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “Nowadays these clubs seem to be high-bourgeoisie’s bullshit, but I’m pretty sure they used to be “accessible”.”

    Really? What makes you so sure. If anything I’d think they’d be even more exclusive back in the “good ol’ days” than they are now.

  • bob

    I know clubs never used to be a place where workers gather, they had something else. Clubs were always a bit bourgeois I guess, but what was praised there was definitely good for society, especially for its lower parts. It is not anymore.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    ” but what was praised there was definitely good for society, especially for its lower parts. ”

    What was “praised” there and how and why and in what ways was it good for “lower parts”?

  • Human

    @ Pirran I feel the need to chime in.

    In regards to whoever you’re talking to.

    I believed for years that men were ‘rapists’ and vowed never to rape women. At age 8 I will never forget my mother crying and telling me how she was “raped” – and that I was the first one to learn that. As she was putting me to bed. After my Father had earned enough money to buy an apartment nearyby after sleeping on his friends couch I was allowed to visit every so often, until he could afford to pay for both my mother’s house & our things, and his place & his things – as nothing that was our’s was his once the divorce took place.

    It wasn’t until I was 22 that I heard the other side of the story.

    I believed until then my Father was an asshole alcoholic who couldn’t do anything but fuck up. I realize now, he was fucked over by circumstance.

    He cheated. And he is wrong for that. But his wife withheld sex for years, until he stopped coming home. After that he met a woman that treated him like he wanted. Both women – step and non – are the same. Different color hair. Same behavioral patterns.

    I can say firsthand that my treatment of women and behavior around them was so strongly effected by that evening my mother was crying about the “rape” which turned out to just be a silenced event I don’t even know if she believes occurred, but was instead about the divorce initiated by her/him via her neglect of him (and vice’s virtue’s versus the former’s latter) – that I grew to “love” women and hate men in order to learn to love myself to treat both the same – with equal disrespect, smiling, happily.

    It’s role reversal as taught at it’s finest.

    I don’t really want to explain anything else. I just wanted that person to know that it’s as it is. I can’t explain much beyond cryptically because I don’t want those who’d know to know, and those who’d find out to think they understand.

    We’re simply the next generation. We can adhere to what we want or we can do what we know we shouldn’t. Either way, we will.

    And people are going to be born and people will die.

    It’s not a bad thing.

    Our parent’s were dealing with shit as they knew they could. And most likely, if we’re here, they were doing the best job they could.

    Doesn’t mean they are right. Nor does it mean they are wrong.

    Don’t listen to anybody but yourself.

    Even me telling you this is able to – if wrongly intended – provoke or promote an immoral cause. However, such moral’s and their ’cause’s’ are incapable of existing.

    Remember when you looked up to your parent['s]? Well, now they look up to you. So fucking do something. Or don’t. And if you don’t, make it damn well known that you’re doing what you are for a reason.

    That is why Honesty is the only virtue worth keeping. If you know what you’re doing is right, then you have no reason to worry about what effect you’ll have, even on those who think you’re wrong & treat you according to their ideals.

  • Jason

    Human, if you were trying to communicate something, you didn’t succeed. Clarity and brevity. They’ll help you a lot.
    Also, let a comment sit for a while. You might come up with a better way to say it.

  • YaReally

    I’ll just leave this here.

  • bob

    “What was “praised” there and how and why and in what ways was it good for “lower parts”?”

    Clubs were safe-harbours were men could stay for a while (even sleep there), and find people with common interests. We can guess that people going there learned to be social, to be part of a group, enjoyed solidarity whenever needed. Maybe it doesn’t like much, but knowing there is a place like that where you can fall back when needed is a huge help for men. That’s kind of what this blog is. We find people with common interests, and we listen to each other. Even though things are very limited here, there is no doubt it has a very good impact on people coming here. I imagine clubs to be like that, but on a larger scale.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “At age 8 I will never forget my mother crying and telling me how she was “raped” – and that I was the first one to learn that. As she was putting me to bed.”

    That is crazy. 8 is way too young to be given that kind of information. An 8 year old child will not know how to process such information, especially about his mother who is usually very beloved to 8 year olds.

    “I believed until then my Father was an asshole alcoholic who couldn’t do anything but fuck up. I realize now, he was fucked over by circumstance.

    He cheated. And he is wrong for that. But his wife withheld sex for years, until he stopped coming home. After that he met a woman that treated him like he wanted. Both women – step and non – are the same. Different color hair. Same behavioral patterns.”

    SAME BEHAVIOURAL PATTERNS. The pattern is with him. He’s attracted to a certain type of woman that feeds his own dysfunction.

    Sounds like Papa had some inner work to do before he hopped into the sack with another woman.

    This culture feeds that. Everyone is taught that being alone and fixing oneself is somehow wrong.

    When will this dysfunctional pattern of single parent dating end?

  • Hopeless Romantic

    Djeed, are you reading this? The above video posted by YaReally says it all.

    Notice the new age speak. The PUA industry is drawing a lot from David Deida (author of new age fluff “Way of the Superior Man” and other pseudo eastern “tantrik” dabblings). They are also a huge van of Eckart Tolle who’s got the highly impressionable Western New Age scene abuzz with watered down soundbytes from the Upanishads.

    Keep watching that video. At the end you’ll have options to watch other ones, such as the one with Owen Cook (aka “Tyler Durden”) pretending to know something about politics as he talks about “group think”.

    Cook’s entire “industry” is based on just that: group think.

    By the way, Cook, who was supposed to be a master PUA guru ended up tricked by an unattractive illegal Mexican who had an “oops!” pregnancy so she could have an anchor baby.

    Cook fell for her scam hook line and sinker.

    He’s now the father of not one BUT TWO of her ugly babies – (can you imagine the combo of a pasty, freckly male ginger 3 and a Mexican female 4?)

    Anyway, she’ll get her legal citizenship now and Cook has since “transitioned” into being a “mainstream motivational speaker” ala Tony Robbins so that he can provide for the kids and Mrs. At least that is his plan, don’t know how well its panning out.

    And here he was fooling AFCs and chodes that he could get the hottest women anywhere (at least 8s) and knew all the ins and outs of female manipulation.

    And he was a master guru, don’t forget.

    These guys are classic. Pure classic.

  • YaReally

    @Hopeless

    lol do you want me to post the footage of Tyler and his group approaching, making out with, and taking home women? Because there’s plenty of it. :)

    Dude has a girl he was with for years before they had any kids, who lets him go out and bang random girls regularly, and he ultimately wants like 5 kids. Being a father is something he wants to do (thus his whole journey into learning how to get women), and he isn’t legally tied to her via marriage and risking half his assets.

    Guy had his pick of the litter and chose her for whatever reasons. How hot she is doesn’t really matter, if a guy has a 4 at home that he gets along with and is a good mom, but she’s cool with him going out and banging a bunch of other hotter girls regularly, hey, that’s his personal choice.

    Hell if anything, the fact that a an ugly fuck-up like Tyler could go from life as a doomed incel with no hope of ever getting a girl or procreating and passing on his genes, to having 2 kids and still be banging girls regularly into his 30s is a testament to Game.

    Also his kid is pretty cute:

    13:00 min in:

    Start and end:

    But hey, if you have to insult someone’s children to make a point, you do your thing.

  • Fission

    There are different Character’s, and different Voice’s.

    I wonder sometimes how you people get by; as I can’t all the same – ’round cunts brevity; & sum’s pill-swallower’s will, because you’re doing what you do.

    There is no point to language anymore. Because joke’s are no longer funny, no one can be a comedian.

    A cop is a dude who wears an outfit, though a police officer knows he has one. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Fuck you.

    - He who tell’s someone to learn how to write.

    I doubt what’s read what’s been written by his celestial star’s virgin orient.

    Costume’s, Presumed, and 92nd elemental’s progression’ perfumed — an explosion atomically contracted. Iran’s scientist’s finally accepting the realization of another Country’s expansion.

    In the end the joke is: I once was a ___- now I’ma —– after that I’ll be

    The Poet’s Madness’s cataract.

  • Jason

    Fission,
    You’re a Mad Poet.
    Or just crazy.

    Avoid crazy poet cataracts–wear sunglasses.
    Preferably rose-colored.

  • JS

    There are pictures of Tyler’s girlfriend/baby-momma online and she is hooooot.

  • Jason773

    “One concept that gets sapped out of you after going through something like this is “fun”. How can it be fun when either you or her are going to leave the other one shaking on some cement floor somewhere?”

    That quote right there really shook me, and it’s been the biggest thing I’ve been struggling with lately. I don’t have malice in my heart and I don’t want to hurt anyone, but damn, sometimes it’s just inevitable…and awful to see.

  • MW

    Astute, outstanding post! The psychological mechanics and wiring of such a mentality are complicated indeed and I see a moderate form of them in myself. But in recent years as I’ve gotten older, I view my Dad in a much more sympathetic light and cut my Mom much less slack than I used to (though not by being an asshole).

    Really appreciate the blog for posts such as these. Roissy has the in field techniques but yours provides the strategy behind the tactics. Thanks again

  • Hopeless Romantic

    “Dude has a girl he was with for years before they had any kids, who lets him go out and bang random girls regularly, and he ultimately wants like 5 kids. Being a father is something he wants to do (thus his whole journey into learning how to get women), and he isn’t legally tied to her via marriage and risking half his assets.”

    Another stupid sheltered white American who thinks a man isn’t legally tied to a woman he has kids with out of wedlock.

    Talk to a Black man someday, if you dare.

  • Hopeless Romantic

    Watched Owen’s videos with his kids.
    What a f*cking moron.
    A middle aged man referring to the middle aged mother of his children as his “girlfriend”. Americans have no culture. Non whatsoever.

    I support the MRAs and PUAs in their endeavors to bring this Shaytan’s Babylon down.

    Let the muthafucka burn.

  • Boys will be Boys «

    [...] I suppose I should mention here that virtually all Vichy Males are Promise Keeper. [...]

  • Dreams of the Future Past «

    [...] ways), but a confirmed beta when it came to deference to women. Michael has the predictable ‘promise keeper’s‘ Oedipus beliefs about his biological father, as a result of his having been raised by a [...]

  • Girls love alphas

    Being a beta ain’t bad, just wont get any girls. Betas and omegas, or some call “nice guys” are whiners w/ weak genes. Alphas, or jerks as the “nice guys” call us are the winners with strong genes and the beta and omega can’t handle that. Oh girls change once they reach the age of 30 or even 40 and their used up. They say they want men with experience to be sure they get a nice guy. Guess what, only the jerks will have experience so you beta and omega losers will lose out while we alphas will still get plenty of pussy.

  • Put a Fork in Him | Alpha Is Assumed

    […] 2.  The mother wins.  In this case, he interprets his mother’s guidance/shit-test mixture as quality guidance.  He’s given up his budding Alpha urge to resist his mother and determined to do the right thing.  He subconsciously associates his mother’s love and (genuine) concern for his well-being with authority and becomes inclined to submit.  He fails his mother’s shit-tests by doing what she wants, and grows up to respect the shit-test requests of other women with the same deference he treated his mother’s request for him to not pee on the toilet seat.  It pains his mother when he defies her, so he grows to respect Woman and to do what She asks him to do.  He’s submissive and respects women just a little too much.  He might not want to be anything like his father. […]

  • Tom

    In relation to most of the other posters of comments for this, I had a “bad dad”, so to speak, as well. My situation is slightly different in that I never fully sought to protect my mother, because she would never leave him. I was, and still am, in the mindset in that it terrifies me to let myself feel anger and rage towards people I care for. Mainly because I could never look at myself i I were to lose my mind like my father did regularly.

    Lately I am discovering that I must learn to accept that I will always be similar to my father, and that his capabilities for anger and rage will never go away. I have had my moments where I’ve “lost my mind” and I have never laid a finger on someone who didn’t deserve it. Oddly enough, my first really aggressive fight ever, was with my father, and I nearly knocked him unconscious with one hit, then repeatedly stopped myself from continuing by shouting over and over to him “I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to hurt you. Stop please.”

    My words were not heard, and I wound up getting lifted off the floor and bashed into the wall creating a ‘me’ sized hole with one of his arms around my neck. I had to damn near break his arm to get him to let me go. Needless to say, I didn’t live at home for a week, and pretty much haven’t ever spoken with any love for my father since then. That was 10 years ago. Ever since then, I’ve been a lot more comfortable with myself, but it still bothers me.

    I have actually really been delving into this problem head-first for the past few months. Even with solid proof that I was able to control myself, I still fear the loss of control. I believe I will find a peace in this problem sometime soon. It is… relieving, to know that I am not alone, per se. My father, I think, was not a bad man. I think he just never fully learned to conquer and control his outbursts of anger, and never grew up. He had an abusive mother that dished out things ten times worse than anything I ever got, even though I don’t consider that an excuse, I still “get it”. I love my mother, but think she is a fool for staying with him, and have no pity when she talks about all the horrible things he says to her and how little he does and is immature, etc.

    I tried to save her, several times, and it got me deeper in the hole. Sounds cruel, but I had to give up and cut ties in a lot of ways. But ever since I left, I’ve had a much more prosperous life.

  • Rob

    “…The problem inherent in this modern day Oedipus scenario is that the feminine imperative is more than happy to use it to its universal social advantage. Feminization and its blue-pill conditioning of boys to be better “men” is defined by how well that “man” is acceptable to a feminine culture. Thus we get gender blurring, and boys are taught to pee sitting down by single mothers because “your asshole dad always made a mess and left the lid up.” Better ‘men’, uniquely feminine-acceptable men, pee like women.”

    This was pretty much me, in fact if this is posted in wikipedia somewhere I bet my profile pic is next to it :)

    - But I’m committed to peeing standing up :) and teaching my kids by showing them all of the mistakes I’ve made by trying to please and make a woman happy while not taking my own happiness into consideration (let alone putting it into the #1 priority spot where it should have been all along).

    Time will tell if I do a good job with them by doing a good job with myself first – fingers crossed.

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