Potential vs. Struggle
“Women don’t care about the struggle. They wait at the finish line and fuck the winners.”
Rich Cooper
This is a popular belief in the Manosphere today. Hypergamous stress is so intense that women have turned into mercenaries with respect to vetting the men they’ll accept to plan a future with. I’ll admit, a lot of well-meaning Red Pill men believe women’s Hypergamous Filter is necessarily amoral if not overtly cruel. The ill-informed critics of Hypergamy believe in a binary extreme. They presume that all those Red Pill guys are self-defeated by the idea that all women are prostitutes and only “out to get theirs“. This is simplistic ignorance of the concept of Hypergamy meant to dissuade the curious from Red Pill truths that they refuse to process. But do they kind of have a point though?
Virtually every extreme of MGTOW and the Mens Rights Movement have some open variation of how Hypergamy is a straight jacket and
“Why bother with a woman for anything other than a short term fuck if her Hypergamous nature will just predispose her to jumping ship to the first guy who comes along with a bigger dick or a bigger wallet?”
I covered all of these is detail in Hypergamy – The Misconceptions a while ago in case you’re curious as to why these are unfounded, and more often deliberate, misunderstandings of women’s nature. And no, that doesn’t mean I’m backpedaling on anything I’ve ever written about Hypergamy.
A couple weeks ago I got wrapped up in a Twitter exchange about the conflict between whether women indeed wait for the winners at the finish line or they make calculated bets about a man’s future potential.
From a pragmatic point of view I’m very much inclined to agree with this assessment. Yes, it makes women seem overly mercenary with respect to Hypergamy, but I’ve said it as much myself in any number of prior essays:
Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.
The Marriage Game
In a purely evolutionary context it’s true; because a woman’s sexual market value – and ultimately her only agency with men – is perishable Hypergamy cannot afford for a woman to waste her time on a ‘good bet‘. This truth is a basic, Darwinistic, rule for women’s sexual strategy.
Despite all the social conventions to make them believe otherwise, women’s hindbrains know that their sexual agency and prime fertility window in life is limited. This creates a degree of urgency in a woman as she gets closer to, or ages past, the Wall. This understanding necessitates tradeoffs, but optimally a woman would prefer not to take chances with her reproductive future – and ultimately her life’s future.
For the more nihilistically inclined men of the ‘sphere, this Darwinistic determinism seems like a reproductive death sentence. If women only fuck the winners at the finish line, and you’re a loser, you may as well give up and go jerk off, right? This defeatism is a core tenet of the Black Pill.
All that said, a lot of people disagree with this assessment:
Jack knows I love him, but he is living with a girl much younger than himself. While I think that’s cool, and proof of Red Pill concept, he is actually living out the point being made here. Statistically, women tend to prefer men who are 5 to 7 years their senior. Another aspect of women’s evolved mental firmware is the natural attraction to older men as prospective long term mates. Women know that it takes men longer to mature into the genuine value that her Hypergamous Filters test for. An older rich man is always more believable than a younger rich man. Women tend to pair with a man their senior because Hypergamy doesn’t need to wait on his potential when he’s already a proven commodity.
Most of the criticism in this thread centers on exaggerating the age of “marriageable men” to the point of absurdity, but women do look for long term security as a prime requisite of the men they hope to pair for life with. There is a root-level presumption in women, correct or not, that an older man will have established the status and resources a woman needs in a long term partner. In fact, our feminine-primary social order shames men for not preparing to assume this role of security provider for women by a certain age (usually 30ish).
Alexander is also a good friend, but I’m going to disagree with half of his assessment. Women don’t readily recognize potential in men. In fact most of them are piss poor at it. This is because they’ve been socially conditioned to focus more on themselves (and exacerbated by their innate solipsism) than be concerned with making a good assessment of men’s potential for future success.
Now, before you think I’m siding with the Hypergamous nihilists, this did give me pause to step back and assess my stance on women reading men’s potentials to provide for their future security. And that last part is the most important because women’s sexual strategy has two parts: Alpha Fucks – short term sexual needs – and Beta Bucks – long term provisioning and security needs. It’s the latter that we’re discussing in this debate.
Women want to fuck the winners in the short term, but they will also assess a man’s potential for the long term.
Hypergamy cannot afford to wait for 100% perfect confirmation of a man’s Alpha status before she has sex with him. This Hypergamic bypass is actually one vulnerability women have with respect to well calibrated Game.
The Epiphany Phase Revisited
In the essay Women’s Existential Fear I also made the following proposition:
The Existential Fear in women is that their innate, Hypergamous Filter, their Feminine Intuition, might be fooled, and by being fooled she may either die or have her reproductive potential compromised for her lifetime by bearing and raising the child of man who is a suboptimal Hypergamous choice for her – a man who exerted his will over her Hypergamous choosing filters.
Making Choices
All of this presumes that a woman is in some way testing for a man’s potential. Even women’s autonomous shit testing is a confirmation of this. So yes, women do look for potential in men. Some better than others. The Hypergamous Filter is an imperfect tool which is exactly why women needed to mystify their feminine intuition in popular understanding. Men had to be kept in the dark as to a woman’s motives because their filters have always been intuitive guesswork. This is a vulnerability that men might exploit – with good Game for instance – if women were ever honest about it.
Not all women can fuck the winners so they have to make calculated bets on men. This is also a reason women rely on social proof and the preselection cues of other women. If other women find a guy to be a ‘good bet’ it provides her a short cut to getting to intimacy. Again, Hypergamy cannot afford to miss out on a socially confirmed ‘good bet’. And yes, this is also a vulnerability in women’s vetting process that men with good Game regularly exploit.
So, the tradeoff is this: when a woman is at her peak sexual market value (SMV) she has the leisure to fuck the winners at the finish line. The more her SMV decays the fewer her options become, and the more likely it is that her necessity requires her to make a ‘bet’ on a man’s future potential. This is the primary reason women opt for the Beta in Waiting around her Epiphany Phase. Necessity forces her to go with good potential.
One of the ways feminism and female-primacy sabotages women’s ability to vet for good potential is in the mythology surrounding their sexual viability as they get older. Social conventions constantly reinforce the false idea that a woman’s SMV is indefinite – and by extension her agency over men should also be indefinite. This is why Blank Slate idealism and Social Constructionism are a preferred mythology for women. Without the Blank Slate a woman would be forced to accept the evolved realities of her sex. The Blank Slate is a prime source of women’s solipsistic denial of her own nature.
Turnkey Men
Do women care about the struggle? Do women ever appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate their own realities? I explored this topic a long time ago in Appreciation and I’m still going with my old assessment, no.
It may be that a man of Rich Cooper’s age, affluence and status only attracts the ‘finish line girls’ because he’s already a made man. He’s an attractive catch because he’s already a proven commodity. Thus, he tends to attract women who are looking for a ‘Turnkey’ man with an established world into which they want to move.
I should also add that most middle aged women, past their sexual prime and well past any long term potential they may’ve had themselves universally look for the ‘Turnkey’ man – once they’re done playing cougar immediately after their divorce. This is another illustration of women’s sexual strategy from the post-Wall side. Alpha Fucks – Beta Bucks never changes, only the context does. Post divorce women go through a second Epiphany Phase right after the divorce. Play cougar and fuck the fun college guys if they can because it’s easy, but be on the lookout for a ‘Turnkey’ winner who’s still ignorant of his Blue Pill conditioning at 45.
Whether it’s a woman in her late 20s or a post-Wall ‘mature woman‘ a man’s struggles to become her ideal is largely irrelevant to her. WHile women are speculators with respect to men it’s the end result of those struggles that’s the operative for her. Almost every woman who disagreed in the Twitter thread above all had some success story of how their brilliant feminine intuition led to them investing in the man they’re so proud to call a husband now. None of them were about how they made a horrible mistake in betting their future on a losing horse. So it’s important to see how the results skew for women.
Women will readily make claims on Relational Equity as an insurance against his leaving her later, once he’s achieved that potential. His struggle and her bearing through it with him is only important in that it produced the positive results she’d hoped for. That ‘dedication’ of seeing it through is her relationship insurance. It’s why women despise and reinforce the “trophy wife” meme. It’s prime indignation to have a man betray her speculation on him by rewarding a younger, hotter, tighter woman at the finish line.
Your struggle is her burden despite you having to bear it under duress of her abandoning you if you failed. Women will never appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate a reality, her sexual/life strategy, she believes was always her due. You just did what you were supposed to do as a man. Women believe it is their due to pair with a man who is worthy of her social media inflated ego. If that sounds harsh remember that women regularly bemoan the lack of men who are their “equal partners” in both money and education well after their prime SMV years are past.
Finally, the reason the finish line metaphor is apt is because more women than ever are postponing marriage in the expectation that ‘Turnkey’ made men will be waiting and available when they hit 31-33 years old, rather than investing in men with good potential in their early to mid 20s. Doing so would mean sacrificing their peak SMV Party Years when someone like Sheryl Sandberg convinces them to wait for the ‘Right Guy‘. It’s simple pragmatism for a woman not to bet her reproductive future on an unproven commodity so early in life. If she does, and it works out for the best, she’s practically sainted by the Sisterhood for her prudence and sacrifice for him. Behind every great man is a woman, right?
But if she chooses unwisely and her life goes to hell she’s wasted her own potential on a bad bet. Social conventions can mitigate this of course. Men can always be blamed for her downfall, but she’s still saddled with the consequences of that bad bet. And it is exactly these consequences of a bad Hypergamous choice that the Feminine Imperative will bend all its power to legally and socially insure against for women (i.e. legal abortion, child support laws, #MeToo, the Duluth Model of feminism).
All of this is why women are pushing their decision to marry, if at all, back to older and older ages. The average age of first marriage today is 27-28 for women, and the overall marriage rate has been in free-fall for decades now. This is why. This evolved dynamic is conflicting with our present age’s social imperatives for women and the falsehoods they are conditioned to believe about their sex from the earliest ages.
If you liked this topic you can also listen to my discussion about it with Donovan Sharpe here:
@intellect I don’t see how it’s a strawman. It’s not like i was drawing a caricacture of game. I basically granted that he is doing full real deal game. Like I said, it’s a though experiment (or some call it a simulation). They do is all the time in many different fields as means of thinking through the consequences of an idea. Consider the Mind-Body problem in philosophical psychology: Is the mind nothing but the brain or is it distinct from it? A popular thought experiment here is the brain-in-a-vat argument or even the Matrix, which are both ways of… Read more »
“A popular thought experiment here is the brain-in-a-vat argument or even the Matrix . . .”
You’re looking for Ghost in the Shell.
” . . . what works for me may not work for you. Any real solution is tailor made”
Just be yourself.
Zendude,
“It’s meant to convey that we can’t really know things for certain and if the purpose of an undertaking is to achieve such a certainty.”
Again if you lack proper grammar to describe your surroundings and their usefulness, then, yes, your logic is doomed.
Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric.
In that order, skip no steps.
Otherwise, zendude, you slosh around in your self made sea of uncertainty.
Look, if we don’t come to an agreeable ending to “The intended purpose of sax is…” then we’re doomed arguing desire/negotiation/orgasm/relationship-glue merry-go-rounds.
I don’t care how any given guy goes off-label-use for fucking…but young guys need guidance to the usefulness of their genitalia before they think they’re some sex-god wizard.
@Rollo Let’s throw this wrench into the gears: why is it “Incels” don’t want to bang hookers to end their sexlessness? Answers of “They’re all disordered spergs, who cares?” will be ignored. As a former incel of legendary proportions, I can say that the answer to this question is complicated. It goes beyond the need for desire sex, and yet ends with desire sex at the same time. Blue Pill conditioning blinds the incel to less attractive girls that are interested in him. He will either consciously or unconsciously filter them out, not even seeing them. The irony is he… Read more »
Anybody got a fatted calf lying around?
Wassup softek. Nice to see …um…read you.
Haha Softie…
Glad you didn’t kill yourself. You still with that woman?
I’ll take you fishing, your gonna eat those crusts though and then we are going to sarge the dockside bars and you aren’t getting a ride home unless you get somewhere…why?
Cause dad’s know it ain’t gonna kill you and down the road you’ll be glad!
That relationship’s been over for about 7 months now, I think. It’s been a while, once in a blue moon she’ll hit me up wanting to have sex, and it’ll be great, and no drama, nothing. Not callus or disconnected either, maybe a couple hours lying down together after and then she’ll just say she has to go and that’s that. I’m happy she didn’t kill herself and is doing better now, and the daily emotional turmoil is gone. I’m still processing everything that happened. Coincidentally a few of my friends got into some messed up relationships soon after mine… Read more »
Welcome back Softek
A starfish once told me that once you’ve had desire sex you can’t go back.
Hey Softek, glad to hear from you. Glad you remained on your own two feet, self-differentiated from others more and not emotionally fused to that girl. You seem to have leaned out to your edge and did not fall off a cliff. Good for you. I would have thought you would have knocked that chick up a while ago. So, you got around to listening to NMMNG by Robert Glover. Good for you. The Nice Guy Syndrome is, at its core, an anxiety- and shame-based disorder. Everything a Nice Guy does is about managing his internal anxiety and how the… Read more »
A hooker gives you desire sex when she does pornstar sex and doesn’t charge you.
There are certain involuntary signals which a woman gives which cannot be faked when she really wants you. I’ve got an old post about those signals on my site.
Re: spotting the difference between desire sex and non-desire sex and girls faking for money etc. You can learn. Obviously nothing in life is 100%, and it’s possible for a girl to be a better actor etc, but it’s really not that hard to learn to read it 99.99% of the time if you’re even vaguely paying attention. I know cos I did it. Way back years ago (after my first epiphany and restroom BJ with desire sex, but long before I got to the point of being able to replicate it consistently with other women), I spent a few… Read more »
@RC – I’ve posted about that story several times in multiple threads and in the FR section, but finding the most detailed version is a pain. Probably easier to just tell the story again. Basically, this was quite a few years ago when I was newly out of a long relationship and first getting into Game properly – proper recovering beta etc (I knew about PUA but it was before I’d heard of the Red Pill). Online date. For reasons unknown to me (then), it was going incredibly well and the girl was obviously super engaged and into me and… Read more »
@Softek – Seem as though you have come through your “dark midnight of the soul” which is necessary for anyone struggling with the Red Pill. Facing yourself, on your own terms honestly is the necessary but incredibly painful first step in the journey of a powerful man. Now, what are you going to do with this powerful man you’ve created? Note, many of the choices and decisions you made about your life from a Blue Pilled frame will not fit you anymore and you have much more freedom of action than you realized. There is no resting for a man,… Read more »
@Culum, thanks for taking the time to write it again. I think this example clarifies a lot. You know, I started writing and seeking advice around here sorta because of a dead bedroom; but I’m at the point where I care about the solution to that problem only as a byproduct of a new more masculine me (@ehintellect, here’s the answer to the question you asked me some time ago – why am I here). There’s just so much more. But, do you have a sense of why she was so much into you – especially because you say you… Read more »
Asd
What’s your description of ” porn star sex “?
Blax
What’s your description of ” porn star sex “?
Watching a girl on a screen fuck a dude in the other room… lol
[Porn has ruined sex]
Softek I can’t help but feel like having talked about it so much to people was a mistake, and not doing enough thinking for myself. Yup. I suspect most “therapy breakthroughs” are the patients just getting so sick of their constant bellyaching they resolve to STOP whatever it is they are complaining about. This is the crux of becoming Alpha. Flipping the switch and not doing what you don’t want to any longer. So I keep posting these clips… to get those to flip those switches… Scribbs “Seem as though you have come through your “dark midnight of the soul”… Read more »
Sentient
Yeah man, I agree. When I was a teen, I got my first vcr and immediately watched porn on it. That maybe lasted about 6 months before I thought ” wtf am I doing watching some guy banging some random chick? “.
It’s much worse since the internet has exploded porn all over the place. I.had to ask my friends to stop sending me clips of porn on my phone, even if they were in the clips, lol.
It’s definitely shifted the sexual landscape, but it harms men more than women.
Softek “once in a blue moon she’ll hit me up wanting to have sex, and it’ll be great, and no drama, nothing. Not callus or disconnected either, maybe a couple hours lying down together after and then she’ll just say she has to go and that’s that. I’m happy she didn’t kill herself and is doing better now, and the daily emotional turmoil is gone.” Haha… That emotional turmoil was about her trying to lock you down, exclusive, as a beta… and when you finally set the frame what does she do… well she caves on the beta and slots… Read more »
Rc, “But, do you have a sense of why she was so much into you – especially because you say you were at the beginning of this process, and this was a first date? Was it just a lucky match? Do you think you triggered particular attraction switches?” We’d been together 20+ years and never a dead bedroom though I was waffling between Alpha and Beta and frankly I didn’t like who I became after 15 years on the job. I did the collection phase and was bored of that and then looked around me at my peers and was… Read more »
Blax
How did the jelqing and mewing go in your day?
https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/incel-plastic-surgery.html
Seems to me that a lot of men here have a different, maybe even opposite mindset to what I’ve had for most of my life. And yes, I know what it feels like for a woman to “desire you”. I know what it feels like for her to crush you up against a wall backing up if you’re fucking her from behind standing. I know what it looks like when she ferociously bounces on you and shaking her head in a violent manner. I know the curse words that come seemingly out of character I know how the vice like… Read more »
“Seems to me that a lot of men here have a different, maybe even opposite mindset to what I’ve had for most of my life.”
That is to be expected, as that is why it is here.
Most of us here have an inordinate fondness for surviving crossing the street. Despite the fact that nobody knows anything for certain we have noted that making predictions based on pattern matching has a better record than creating your own reality.
seth10, You seem to understand women. Cool, and thanks for the comments. I learned a lot. “While men here aspire to understand women which really is important; How many men truly know themselves first?” Help me get to know you and perhaps I and others could understand how you’ve developed such insightful knowledge….and, wow, you practice the rough stuff too! Questions for you seth10: What is your age, BMI, size of town you live in, your notch-count, and were your parents ever divorced, are you or were you ever married, how many women do you date at once if you… Read more »
“Have any of you really unleashed your full masculine lust on a woman? Have any of you unleashed the beast, the wolf inside? I suspect its there in every man. Have any of you tear it up, slap it up? Choke her , bit her , drag her by the hair. Cuss her , shout at her, totally dominate her?”
Lol.
“What’s your description of ” porn star sex “?”
Well, I think there are numerous specifics here…just one a woman gagging on your cock during enthusiastic oral
Sentient Shit, that article was the damnedest thing I’ve read so far this year. As far as ” jelquing “, lmao. I think I ran across that term about 6 or 7 years ago. Back in the day, ” we ” were always told to ” stop holding your dick(s)”, lol, but basically you were dissuaded from pulling or playing around with your cock. I was a young kid when I first heard the saying ( at the urinal ), ” shake it a couple of times then put it away, or else you’re playing with it “. Basically if… Read more »
https://blacklabellogic.com/2019/04/03/alpha-and-the-1/
https://blacklabellogic.com/2019/04/12/hypergamy-and-looks/
I’ll never understand the view that says just work on X and disregard Y and Z when Y and Z also work to boost attractiveness to most women. That said, I think it makes sense to try and be top 20% in everything rather than focus ALL your efforts on being top 1% in just one thing.
I’ve had a roller coaster life in terms of career and financial achievement but I can say some of my most successful times with women came during periods of time being a “loser” with respect to job/career status, etc.
“Idk, I find it just a little odd that so many younger guys spend so much time fucking around with their ” looks “. ”
https://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/
lol thank you @Morpheus. Tired of having this looks debate with this guy lol.
You gonna have your jaw widened or narrowed?
Morpheus Like I said previously, it’s not the plastic surgery that’s the problem, it’s the mental issues and self hate. Time is a wonderful thing. I’m watching a lot of these mirror gazing dudes over time, and it’s as if they are in suspended animation or something – stuck in Lookland USA. Yes, a man shouldn’t get tsuck on any 1 thing, and he should strive to be the best version of himself that he can be, but the concentration on changing so I can get women is misguided imo. Because without Game, you’ll probably fuck while getting fucked over.… Read more »
” My self-image fluctuates all the time,” he wrote on the forum as he waited. “I want to live in a plastic surgeon’s office. I just want to have a bed in one of his labs. Just a bed, a small kitchen, and an internet connection. I want to feel pure within my body and self-validate by looking in the mirror and seeing the flawless skull. When detecting a tiny deformity, I call the surgeon and he’ll be there immediately, along with his assistant and a knife in his hand to cut me open” Shit like this is about more… Read more »
“Shit like this is about more than looks.”
tell that to incel j.
Lol. I can’t because the forums dispute me.
And, I don’t understand….the words that I’m reading.
Blax
“this stuff – the surgery and self hatred – is also a part of the FI’s effect on young boys.”
Indeed. When that meets mental illness… Ugh.
But rest easy this is a small minority of men. I think the article said something like 10k on the forum.
Morpheus is full of shit. This isn’t “haircuts” or a new shirt or losing a few lbs or hitting the gym. This is Captain Disturbo level mental illness.
“That said, I think it makes sense to try and be top 20% in everything …”
WTF is this guy talking about? Who set the standard of the top 20%? You going to chase some chimera of another’s choosing? Fine. Get ready for disappointment, Morpheus or be good at wrapping you loving arms around yourself. There’s no middle ground. You are a tool or you own yourself.
If it was given, it can be taken away.
Choose wisely that you love.
“the concentration on changing so I can get women is misguided imo”. Not if he wants to widen the net of girls he can fuck. Before looksmaxxing this is the kind of girl that would give him a shot (maybe lol) Post looksmaxxing: http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/ln/20130424/240413_itv_8/carol-vorderman-celebs-at-itv_3625159.jpg “Because without Game, you’ll probably fuck while getting fucked over” No shit. Guy can certainly get laid without “game”. but he needs game to keep fucking her beyond the first lay (where he might have just gotten lucky). “Lol, what’s gonna happen when the less than pretty guy swoops in and snatches your girl away from… Read more »
“This isn’t “haircuts” or a new shirt or losing a few lbs or hitting the gym. This is Captain Disturbo level mental illness.”
lol. ok yeah I agree. I hadn’t read the ‘plastic surgery’ article. Just morpheus’s comments.
A lot of this looksueberalles is supported by evo-bio pretension hogwashed over mankind. Insecurity on stilts.
It has just enough science-y sexy-son theory and Hazleton research to demand primacy in man’s nature but also requires enough group-think peer pressure, glib gifs, snark, mental laziness and complete willful blindness.
Oh! Nice try j, Morpheus, et.al. TRM/Rollo footnoting your position only makes you slavish. Think for yourself for once or….
more cowbell and confirm your truncated grasp of human nature.
Live by looks, die by looks.
“It’s game + looks. NOT LOOKS ARE EVERYTHING. How this concept continues to be impossible for the old men on this blog to grasp is beyond me….”
Once we get to surgery J, like leg extensions, we reach incomprehension…
I remember when mutilation was considered a bad thing.
kfg
That’s because you don’t understand that there’ve never been uglier men back in the day. Everyone was tall and dashing. This is a new phenomenon, less than perfect looking young men with feminine facial structure.
It’s a brave Mew world.
“Morpheus is full of shit. This isn’t “haircuts” or a new shirt or losing a few lbs or hitting the gym. This is Captain Disturbo level mental illness.” I had no idea what was being referenced as I skip the majority of comments but Blax’s comment caught my eye. As far as being “full of shit” my comment was direct and straightforward and referenced and old Rollo post…but you apparently read a whole helluva lot more into it. Honestly, your response and the asshat blustering fool it reveals you to be is why unfortunately this comment section has mostly gone… Read more »
“Morpheus Like I said previously, it’s not the plastic surgery that’s the problem, it’s the mental issues and self hate.” Real quick since you addressed me…. I’m sort of scratching my head in bewilderment that it appears I am being attributed to some sort of plastic surgery advocate. Except for some horrendous deformity I personally think plastic surgery is unwise. Funny, I have a somewhat above average sized nose… It used to bother me (decades ago) especially because my first girlfriend’s best friend used to poke fun. Now I have zero issues with it and was actually surprised along the… Read more »
Mr. Intellect,
Men compete … Women choose. Wishing it was different does not make it so.
We have truly entered Alice in Wonderland territory if people are going to seriously argue that trying to out compete other men in various areas whether physique or money or status is something not worth pursuing.
Men compete … Women choose Yeah, women don’t compete…that’s why they spend hours putting on makeup, doing their nails, hair, buying expensive clothes, etc. And see, there’s this thing called “preselection”…lol @ women don’t compete I’m a robot. I don’t choose who I approach first or to whom I give my attention…lol @ men don’t choose When you get several women hitting you up for sex, then you get to choose. Shit, I get several women competing for my attention wherever I go. Not every woman, of course. Just tonight an early twenties hostess was chatting me up while I… Read more »
If you can get a woman’s eyes focused on you and you can make her laugh and giggle and shriek and comply with your demands, then ugly looks don’t mean shit. Lack of ability to dance doesn’t mean shit either. Being short doesn’t mean shit. Being old doesn’t mean shit. Being a sperg doesn’t mean shit.
If you understand this, then you are on your way to becoming enlightened about women.
“Shit, I get several women competing for my attention wherever I go. Not every woman, of course. Just tonight an early twenties hostess was chatting me up while I was waiting for my order at Old Chicago. She offered to hold the door open for me while I went out carrying a pizza and it totally surprised me–I could easily have done it myself and I’m sure that she knew it. There were other women coming and going unnecessarily (to see what was going on) and one of them volunteered that she had made my salad.” LOL God bless ya.… Read more »
Rollo
https://patriactionary.wordpress.com/2019/05/28/johnnie-walker-goes-after-a-new-market/comment-page-1/#comment-52481
Novaseeker,
If you get a chance hit me up at morpheus7447@gmail.com..
I have a couple questions & thoughts to run by you. TIA
Another good read
https://www.aaronrenn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/The-Masculinist-33-Wild-at-Heart-and-the-White-Knight-Mentality.pdf
@ehIntellect, thanks. A lot to digest, as usual. what have you been up to, Rc? I’ve been reading here more than I have written – mostly because things are moving slowly but in a way that doesn’t raise much questions for the wisdom around here. I did post a short FR a couple days ago and @sentient was kind to offer some comments about it. Things are improving to the extent I have direct control – I said there we do fight way less and the gym is starting to pay off, both strictly for my well-being and for the… Read more »
@RC “But, do you have a sense of why she was so much into you – especially because you say you were at the beginning of this process, and this was a first date? Was it just a lucky match? Do you think you triggered particular attraction switches?” It’s difficult to answer this. Partly because it’s been years and I don’t remember all the details of the conversation. And partly because my perceptions weren’t as good then as they are now, so even if you had asked me the day after the date, I wouldn’t have been as good as… Read more »
I think certain minor body mods are fine, in the arena of looksmaxing…
In my case after 28 years of basic self-neglect in an ltr I did stuff after I bailed like laser-eye surgery, getting my shitty teeth straightened and re-surface, getting a bump growing on my head removed, shaving off that receding hair, and growing a beard.
The result is basically another person in terms of looks. The cost was about 20K, which, in my eyes, was a good investment in myself.
“I highly doubt there is anything remotely Christian about a bunch of fornicators who defended cuckolding.”
I saw this linked to one of Rollo’s twitter feed entries. Is Rollo a globalist? And if he is, what does globalist mean in Rollo’s case? Because it seems to mean different things to different people based on their background.
@ Morpheus What you’re writing is a good example of how men unintentionally render themselves inagentic. A guy reads something clever on the internet like: men compete, women choose. Man accepts it as truth and then it becomes true and guy behaves as if other men are competition and women the prize. Man uses other men as avatars of success or failure, facily accepting looks and other tangibles as attraction triggers and none of the unseen will to be that success. Man accepts their subservience to women in the SMP and ta-da! it becomes true. Man whines online about feminism.… Read more »
Morpheus, you whine about men AMOGing each other, then you pull it yourself…smh
Dread is the fear of nothingness.
Effective dread forces a woman to compete against loss real or imagined to reduce feelings of insecurity.
Eh This is going to sound awful and contrary, but I don’t feel as if I’m competing with any man, particularly for women/sex. Never have seen it that way. I’m on the perpetual fence about ” women choose “, again because I don’t see it that way and it’s in the woman’s frame. Women can be gamed, overwhelmed and swept off their feet and overcome with emotion and desire. Mostly they don’t” control or choose ” this. There are exceptions. But as an overall mantra, women are the choosers seems like a loss. Competition is a contest of ability and… Read more »
@Culum Yes I agree you can tell difference b/w desire and transactional sex The whole point of the thought experiment is that if one is to claim that YOU NEED GAME AND ONLY GAME can get you desire sex, then you’ll end up in such epistemic situations A guy could pay indirectly (like paying for a date) or pay directly (like pay sugarbaby or hooker) WHILE running game (supposing I grant that it exists and it aint just social skills) to get desire-sex But then would it be the game or the display or provisioning? Once you throw out the… Read more »
Lol, Game is a very, very real thing. Only a guy that has none would question it’s efficacy. Game is much more than ” social skills “. It’s like the difference between flying a Cessna and a Raptor. Don’t get me wrong, social skill is definitely requisite, but Game is a different animal. The problem with Game is that it’s difficult to explain satisfactorily so that large swaths of men can understand it enough to internalize it without getting in some sort of mental loop. You cannot read your way to Game. You must test and practice it until you… Read more »
“I highly doubt there is anything remotely Christian about a bunch of fornicators who defended cuckolding.”
I saw this linked to one of Rollo’s twitter feed entries. Is Rollo a globalist? And if he is, what does globalist mean in Rollo’s case? Because it seems to mean different things to different people based on their background.
No one has anything to say?
While Rollo retweets shit from some Muslim in Germany that same Muslim is giggling to his friends about how fucked the west is.
@Rc “Another reason bedroom-wise things haven’t moved that much maybe is that Mrs. Rc is getting a new husband sorta for free. Is that reasonable?” It’s reasonable behavior on her part. So allow her that. It is not a reasonable expectation/feeling or dwelling point on your part. Don’t allow yourself to be in her Frame that way. I know I lived a safe successful life with a solid foundation. And a good job/profession. That made it more difficult to really stick my neck out and take chances in my Reconstruction. But it was right and correct for my bearings and… Read more »
@ Blax “This is going to sound awful and contrary, but I don’t feel as if I’m competing with any man, particularly for women/sex.” Nah, it’s not contrary. You’re making my final point about this though I prefer guys to figure it out. There’s more to dread, RP for durable,r healthy relationships with women. Dread locks a man into contention with a woman’s insecurities to maintain her fears of loss, aka lack of consequence. Those insecurities elicit neurotic shit testing and ancillary behaviors. A man successfully passes the test, temporary reduces her insecurities, gets sex. The above stress fueled relationship… Read more »
@SJF, thanks. I meant to ask if it’s a reasonable conjecture, not if it’s a reasonable state of things (it was late when I wrote…) – but you answered that and more.
@blax Okay, say game exists and it’s more than social skills… how does that change my point? End of day — it ain’t needed. Could be a value-add? Maybe. But to take years off to study the art and do field reports. Lol. Cmon dude. Consider the opportunity costs. Again this is directed to the folks still thinking about it not to the choir. Anyone whose gonna decide on a course of action need to consider the ROI. My commentary is about making that as clear as possible. My message: game aint worth it. Focus on yourself. Make Money and… Read more »
Morpheus, you whine about men AMOGing each other, then you pull it yourself…smh I should not have been sarcastic…I apologize about that. That said, let me say this as respectfully as I can, I don’t believe the examples you provided mean what you appear to think they mean…the hostess chatting you up, opening the door for your pizza, or volunteering that she made your salad for you. I mean heck, part of the job description of hostess is being socially engaging. There are all sorts of scenarios, interactions, especially if you are talking women “on the job” so to speak… Read more »
Zen I’m not at all a ” buy my product ” advocate. I learned without investing one red cent. Also, not a fan of ” value add ” mindset. I’ve seen guys ( and still do ) that workout religiously, try to maximize their earnings potential, and spend tons of money on hair care and clothing , still struggle. Everyone won’t earn six figures or make the cover of men’s health magazine. It’s about how you perceive yourself in relation to females. Where you fit. These things can be communicated in ways that can override the so-so guy with money… Read more »
Zen
My message: game aint worth it. Focus on yourself. Make Money and Get as Studly as possible. 98% of the time, that’ll be enough.
You aren’t familiar with the bodybuilder forums?
Your just making shit up now. You have no idea what the ROI is on getting as “studly as possible” or what percentage of the time that will be enough.
Your just a game denier who hasn’t taken any time to actually look at game or try it. You prove this with every post.
@zendude Yes game is a very real thing. I think the best way to demonstrate the difference from social skills, is via example of it’s usage. So here’s a recent one of someone using Game to accomplish his goal (in this instance: fuck a girl, that has a serious boyfriend of 2 years, on a first date). You can’t do this with mere “social skills” “BACKGROUND Met this girl through night-game street cold approach. Turns out, she’s been in a committed 2-year relationship with her boyfriend. She gave a very strong boyfriend objection and I honestly thought the date would… Read more »
Zen
Lol, j and I are talking about completely different things.
Game isn’t as narrowly focused and as petty as j describes.😁
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167523921&page=1 “Impossible to Get Girls I’m a college student, and my university has an anonymous page where students post their BS. So many girls on it say **** like “OMG, that guy in my bio-med lab is sooooooo fine. I want his number … and what’s under his pants :P” These aren’t isolated incidents, either. Girls be post **** like this daily. Yet, here I am, 24, 4th year in college, and not a single lay. Hell, not even a date, kiss OR HUG. Girls act as though I’m invisible and don’t exist. I can’t start small talk with some… Read more »
I gave him an example of someone using Game to accomplish his goal (in this context: seducing a girl with a serious boyfriend).
I didn’t say, the one and only true usage of game is for getting girls.
J
Girls fuck.
Fwiw, basic Game maxin: having the ” title ” of boyfriend or husband will not stop your woman from being seduced and banged, because she doesn’t stop being female because of you.
Lotta men got all kinds of hurt for believing fully in titles.
@ Blax
Guys like j and zen are locked into a competition with everyone as all they see is all there is. Their fear long ago became comfort pillows of social acceptance in a larger crab bucket of fear. They think top of the heap is the same as out of the bucket.
“boyfriend or husband will not stop your woman from being seduced and banged” Didn’t say it won’t. I’ve done it. My wing has done it. So have millions of other men out there. But sleeping with a girl that has had a serious boyfriend (not a girl with a “I’m kinda seeing someone at the moment” guy) within mere hours of meeting her, can only be done by someone with good game. That’s all I wanted to illustrate. Game’s power Vs social skills. Instead I’m met with useless one liners. and “oh game is like so hard to explain guys.… Read more »
😂 you actually believe in the marrow of your bones that game is all about fucking some random chick you meet at a club or bar in as short of time as possible, and that’s game. So yeah, everything else seems like vague shit to you. You think your doing magic by approaching chicks in clubs without understanding that a lot of them left home intending to have sex, and all you’re doing is qualifying to her, and beating out schlubs that won’t even approach.😂 No hate or shade, but you give yourself waaaayyyy too much credit. Pull girls outside… Read more »
Hey Zen…. Get out your ROI calculator for this guy – Handle is literally GYMPsycho… Our boy has been lifting since 2011 and bulked up from 180 lbs to 230 and now cut 215… That’s some good effort right? Guess he’s in the 2%? “Gf occasionally texting “guy friend” We’ve been together for a year now. Here’s the situation: There’s a guy she told me she’s very good friends with from a few years (2-3). She met him in uni and they didnt date or anything. She told me about him when we just started dating and that was that.… Read more »
😂😂😂😂😂
“game is all about fucking some random chick you meet at a club or bar in as short of time as possible, and that’s game”. No. You can use game to do that tho. Why go on 3 separate dates, spend time and money, when I have the ability to get my dick wet with a new attractive girl within 2 hours of stepping outside? “without understanding that a lot of them left home intending to have sex” when I meet a girl that left home with same intent as me, then those interactions in my experience, last less than… Read more »
@J
Met this girl through night-game street cold approach…
Nice! I like the technical details you’ve provided
@Blaximus Lol, j and I are talking about completely different things. Game isn’t as narrowly focused and as petty as j describes. True that- you and J have been talking at 10,000 feet (miles?) apart from each other for some time… But that’s ok. Maybe someday when J grows up he’ll see the wisdom. But in the meantime, he’s got a pretty good hand on “the gaming of women to get sex” aspect, which I find pretty instructive. Blax has a pretty good hand at “the gaming of life to get what you want from life” which is the ideal… Read more »
Palma
So I’ll ask again, ain’t worth what exactly?
exactly… All the core stuff is free on the net. about 20 hours of time to go through all of it…
This guy is full of shit.
If zen is full of shit so is j. They talk the same and post iterations of PUA and bland sexual experience stories.
j is better at deception as he’s been doing it longer.
Eh
Concur with Palma. I think J is real. he’s mixed up in certain areas and ego invested in this “slayer/PUA” mindset but one must treat most 25 YO’s these days as if they are 15.
He can mature out of it if he wants to.
@Blax If you define “game” like that (as some very broad conception that basically covers everything) then—practically speaking—there’s no point for me disagreeing. Differences are academic at this point In general, the whole Game thing is like religion and the different sects in that religion Catholicism = Blax “game is not just about getting laid” Christian Cult = J “game is exclusively about geting laid” What Christians or Religious people believe is that there is a set of non-falsifiable doctrine written somewhere (aka: bible, torah, etc…) the study and practice of which will lead you to the great wonderful beyond… Read more »
@palm ““game aint worth it” You’re just deluded… Field report after field report backs it up. Every lay I get at my age now is down to using it at some level.” In case it still isn’t clear: A non-believer can be doing the same exact thing behaviorally as a religious person and still be a good guy Likewise, a non-gamer can be doing the same exact thing behaviorally as a gamer and still get laid. Only difference is that the non-gamer calls that “set of behavior” social skills ” while you call it “game.” So no big deal. Nothing… Read more »
but I don’t feel as if I’m competing with any man
Feelings…nothing more than feelings…
SMP…Sexual Market Place…always competition in the marketplace
“As per me, I’m more like an agnostic… ”
You are so badly calibrated that you’re more like a young Earth creationist going on about how “evolutionism” is a religion.
“I can’t prove “god” doesn’t exist . . .”
. . . but that does not imply that I cannot prove your god doesn’t exist, as certain falsifiable claims are made about it.
@kfg
Sorry dude, your comment went way over my head
But glad to know that you understood my argument and CHOSE whatever works for you
“Sorry dude, your comment went way over my head”
That is the outcome predicted by the hypothesis.
As I go about my daily life in the city it rarely occurs to me that I am locked in competition with bears for dominance of the local environment . . . and then one shows up.
” Da fuck? When’s the last time you been to a bar/club?
Saturday and Sunday night. I don’t really drink like that though, but I was invited.
” I’ve daygamed before. I’ve approached girls on the subway. In my gym. In the waiting room of the doctor’s office. Gotten plenty of numbers, some dates. but I don’t like it. Huge time sink. Walking around for hours looking for attractive girls where I live is exhausting. So I go out 1 day a week to bars filled with plenty of girls that are my type (I know which bars attract these girls from going to many different bars in the 4 years that I’ve gone out). then take one home.” Lol, I luvs ya J, but there’s something… Read more »
Zendude, You and j are falling from atop a tall building and complement yourselves how you handle the law of gravity. Accept it or not. Splat. Can you control what’s left behind and does it matter to you? Two possible answers: Yes or no. You two ATM aren’t even good at evo-bio. You can’t yet understand why you have genitals. I’m not telling you what to do with your dicks but tell me anything goes and I’ll tell you good luck with that. I’m convinced guys would be better at the mechanics of getting laid and relax about all this… Read more »