Body Language

I have a feeling I’m going to get myself in trouble with this post. One thing I’ve learned from sixteen years of writing in the manosphere is that people take the issue of Looks are very personally. I think there’s something engrained in how our minds evolved to make us aware of where we fit in as far as image is concerned. I think maybe that’s the root of where we get the idea of leagues with respect to sexual market value. I’ve mentioned before that it’s my belief that everyone is keenly aware of their personal conditions on some level of consciousness and how we look to others is part of that awareness.

My friend Tanner Guzy wrote a great book this year titled The Appearance of Power and I learned quite a bit from it with respect to the, often derided, subconscious choices we make in how we present ourselves to others. A lot goes into what we think is the very simple task of dressing ourselves each day and the message we’re conveying to other men, women, our families, our coworkers, our church, etc. We all have at least a peripheral awareness of what we’re communicating with our clothes, our behaviors and our speech.

Another great book I’m presently reading is the new title from Joe Navarro, The Dictionary of Body Language. Joe was one of the speakers at last year’s 21 Convention and I had the pleasure of talking with him for a bit there. For 25 years he worked as an FBI special agent in the area of counterintelligence and behavioral assessment. Today he is one of the world’s leading experts on nonverbal communications and this book is a very good resource for a lot of reasons. I’m not sure Joe likes being affiliated with the manosphere, but there’s no doubt that what he’s studied and written about for so long can be an invaluable tool for reading the sub-communications of women in Game applications. 

Way back in 2011 I wrote a brief essay called Learn to Read. At that time my focus was on emphasizing the need to be aware of the information a guy could glean from his surroundings, understanding the social environment and also the sub-communications a woman might be relaying to him in that moment. We tend to take it for granted, but there is a lot of information our brains need to process in social settings. For the most part our subconscious minds push out the background noise and less important information to our peripheral awareness so our conscious minds can focus on what we think is most important. Sometimes the part we take for granted, the information that our subconscious processes can be at least as important as what our consciousness is sorting out.

I’m calling attention to this process (as well as Joe’s work) because I want to stress the importance our Instinctual Process plays in interpreting what we see with respect to social interactions, but more importantly for our purposes, when we see men and women interact with one another. For the past 12 years my career in the liquor and gaming industries has put me in the unique position of being able to people-watch and study the unspoken communications that goes on between men and women in settings where they’re primed to apply their interpersonal skills (or lack of). However, it wasn’t until I started contrasting what I was seeing with what I understood about behavioral psychology, evo-psych and the sexual strategies men and women evolved for.

And this, this is the part where I get myself in trouble. In that time I think I’ve developed a pretty good ability to read what men and women are communicating with their clothing, expressions, posture, physical positioning, etc. and interpreting it with a Red Pill Lens. I get in trouble with this because, like I said, people tend to take my reading into things very personally. Even if I’m reading the photograph of a couple they know nothing about they associate something in the image that with how they perceive themselves.

Most of us were taught from an early age never to “judge a book by its cover.” We were taught it’s wrong to be judgmental and it’s what’s on the inside that counts. This has never really sat well with me, but you run the risk of sounding catty when you judge a person by their looks or whatever it is they’re doing in a picture. They say you sound like a gossipy woman, or else it’s supposedly some indication that you’re projecting your own insecurities onto whoever it is you might be critical of. This is unfortunate because our Instinctual interpretive process makes judgment calls all the time in our peripheral awareness. We all make comparisons in our hindbrains, it’s just impolite to give voice to them. This does nothing to help us objectively assess what sub-communications are taking place.

So, fair warning, I’m going to make some reads on some pictures here and if what I interpret seems a little self-serving or judgmental just know that I’m doing my best to stay objective.

For the past 3 months I’ve gotten into the habit of reading the images of various couples that guys on Twitter have been sending me. If you want a brief primer for this I talked about it with Tim Wenger last August here. For the most part these guys wanted me to determine what they were seeing were Alpha Tells or Beta Tells in the body language between the couple. In the majority of these shots, the Beta male body language was fairly evident even to the untrained eye. What was less evident was what the woman’s sub-communications were conveying.

Leaning In

Of the more than a hundred shots I read, the number one most common position for men was the lean in. This posture is something Roissy once called attention to as the hallmark of a Beta subconsciously manifesting his mindset in his body language:

The lean-in is easily identifiable, and while I don’t think it is alwaysBeta Tell (depends on context) it’s certainly the starting point for other manifestations of men with a necessitous subconscious. What I mean by that is that the lean-in is a physical display that illustrates how a man’s subconscious has decided that his woman’s Frame is the dominant one in the relationship. He feels the compulsion to put himself into her space as his natural impulse.

It’s also important to bear in mind that when we are photographed with others, in this case women, we are, or would like to be intimate with, there is a subconscious recognition that anyone viewing the image will infer a relationship context. More on this later, but for now keep in mind that some of these inferences will be related to mate guarding behaviors.

The reflexive critique of this lean-in is usually “Well, that’s just that one shot” or “The photographer told him to lean in” to which I can only say that the predominance of couples shots, candid and staged alike, most consistently pose a man as the leaner.

Lean out

The counter to this leaning-in is a woman leaning out or away from the man. It’s almost as if there is an unspoken conflict of hindbrains going on. A (Beta) man leans in to find inclusion and acceptance in a woman’s Frame while her own hindbrain instinctively reacts and attempts to lessen any inference of intimate acceptance to a larger audience.

Above are some examples of the lean-out. In some of these the latent message the woman’s hindbrain is conveying is almost “Get him offa me!”, but with a smile so as not to be too obvious. Also notice the positioning of the free hand in most of these pictures. We’d like to rationalize this as a gesture of affection after the fact, but in the context of these shots the unspoken message is a defensive one against the man’s lean-in. Again, this is one more manifestation of a war playing out between the couple’s subconscious.

The Eyes Have It

I also want to draw attention to the facial expressions of these women. Notice the commonalities in gaze direction and the message their eyes and expressions are sub-communicating. Women are keenly aware of the permanency of an image and what that image communicates. I’ve pointed out in many a prior essay that women’s brains evolved to give them a much fuller capacity for communication and a sensitivity to nuances than men. Men prioritize the content (information) of communication while women prioritize context (feeling) of communication. This is a truth we have to consider when we analyze the expressions and physical communication of women in photos.

I joked with the guy who sent me the second image here that she looks like she wants to bang me, not the guy doting on her. There’s more than a bit of truth in that assessment. Women today are hyperaware of how an image can be used to facilitate or handicap their sexual strategy. It’s no accident or casual glance when a woman directs her attention towards the viewer. It’s not a person behind the camera that she has in mind when she knows she being photographed, it’s the potential audience – an audience that’s grown exponentially in the age of social media. 

In all these shots the woman’s attention is on how she will be perceived by any viewer of the shot. In some other images I was sent the woman’s focus was on anything other than the men whose only focus was her. In advertising there’s a presumption that when two or more people appear in an ad the one with the presumed dominance is always the one looking away or out at the viewer. The submissive party was the one whose attention is directed at the dominant person. The dominant person is the one telling the story in the ad. A common complaint among feminists about magazine ads in the 60s through the 80s was that it was women who were always disempowered as a result of being posed in subservient positions where they focused on a male in the ad image. The only exception to this was in what feminists still refer to as the Male Gaze wherein the dominance a woman was afforded was limited to her sexual viability and her capacity to hold the attention of any men in the ad and men viewing the ad. 

These concepts are an interesting contrast to the millions upon millions of photos girls and women post of themselves on social media every day. Think of the gender power dynamics in all these shots. It may seem like I’m splitting hairs here, but the reflexive impulse a majority of women default to is one of advertising themselves for potentially better options in the sexual marketplace.

Whether or not this is a practiced or unconscious tact, the latent purpose of women’s responses to their men’s Beta Tells is to advertise their sexual availability to the audience. Some guys have said that women default to these expressions as a means of ego aggrandizement and I’m willing to accept that there’s undoubtedly an element of egoism (certainly solipsism) involved. No doubt women often enjoy the envious attentions of other women on Instagram in the right context. However, these ‘ego shots’ almost universally center on the woman in the power dynamic. In each of these images the power belongs to the woman.

Mate Guarding

Another common Beta Tell is the death grip pose many men will opt for in their couple’s photos. This is a position where the man locks an arm around his woman or drapes an interposing forearm barrier between the viewer and the woman who is trying to coyly escape his mate guarding message. 

In a lot of these the woman often has her hand on his hand as if trying to pry him off to release her. It seems like a reciprocation of affection – similar to the hand on the chest pushing him away – but this is afterthought rationalization. Death grip is a clingy positioning, but again the battle between his and her subconscious centers on the guy mate guarding and her own subconscious desire to broadcast her sexual availability in spite of him.

I Love Mommy

In almost all of these images the male is focused intently on the woman. From a Red Pill perspective, I see this as a manifestation of how these men have been Blue Pill conditioned to make their women their Mental Point of Origin.  Even in the images where the man is looking at the camera his sub-communication is one of clear abasement to, or guarding of, his most important priority.

However, the most disturbing trend I’ve seen in couple’s photos is what I’ve dubbed the I Love Mommy pose. Maybe it’s my instinctual interpretation of it or maybe its’ an obvious Freudian connotation, but in these shots the Beta assumes and almost childlike position of kissing on his woman. 

Okay, so the last one is a press shot, but you get the idea. You can see the I Love Mommy positioning in a few of the prior photos above as well.  I could probably dedicate an entire essay to all of the psychological implications of this phenomenon. I had one critic on Twitter ask me if I genuinely thought this tendency was due to unresolved issues these men had with their mothers; it wasn’t until later he admitted he had a tendency to do the same and was honestly concerned. 

I’m sure the possibility exists, but more importantly I think this habit is due to men internalizing the myth that vulnerability is endearing to women. There’s this persistent lie that accompanies the vulnerability myth. That’s the lie that men can let their guard down and ‘relax’ around the woman they feel securely paired with. As a result they mentally revert to the boy who didn’t need to qualify himself for his mother’s love and they regress to a subconscious comfort in that vulnerability they believe will endear them to their woman. They sub-communicate all this in the I Love Mommy position.

I’ll have to return to this Mother Issues concept in a future essay, but for now, how do you suppose a woman’s hindbrain imperative for Hypergamy will perceive this habit, particularly in light of how image conscious women are in the Instagram generation? My first impression is that it would be one of revulsion, apprehension and resistance. Nothing turns off a woman more than a man indicating that he’d rather be her child than her lover or husband.

Alpha Tells

So, if all of this reads like the overly-critical projection and nitpicking I told you most critics will accuse me of earlier, maybe I can assuage your own judgment by presenting some Alpha sub-communications examples here. Finding these examples can be a tall order in an age where any man photographed in a position not entirely focused on his woman runs the risk of being called ‘toxically’ masculine. Today, men who are confident enough to default to body language that communicates they are their own mental point of origin get accused of ‘abuse’ or at least being self-centered. But as you’ll see this isn’t such a bad thing.

The best example of Alpha Tells in couples photos focus on the man being the center of importance in the shot. Yes, this is Vincent Cassel (51) and his wife Tina Kunakey (21). I have no doubt some hater will come up with some reason in the comments why Vince doesn’t align with whatever their interpretation of Alpha is, but for our purposes these images illustrate the opposite of a lot of the Beta sub-communications we just went through. So try to look past the celebrity and see what’s being displayed here.

First off, notice how Tina’s focus of attention is always on Vince. Women who hold genuine admiration for their men consistently make them the story in photos. Even in the shot where they look at each other her focus is on him. It’s not difficult to assess the power dynamic in their relationship, but you can also feel a genuine desire emanating from Tina.

Also, women who genuinely admire their men are unconcerned that their actions in a shot might be read as subservient or ego-abasing by women’s audience. I’d go so far as to suggest that the attention a woman receives from a man her Hypergamous hindbrain confirms as Alpha is far more valuable to her ego than any lower quality attention she might temporarily enjoy by appeasing her audience. Much of this observation is rooted in the Desire Dynamic. Hypergamy cannot afford to have a high SMV man be confused about her desire or motives. A woman who is proud of the association with man she’s paired with is less concerned about the perception other women might have of her actions – in fact, she’ll convert any disparaging opinion of them into a point of pride, if that man is above her own sexual market value.

When a little girl thought a little boy on the playground was cute her reflexive response to him was not something she had learned to consciously control at that age. That response is often reflected in the expressions of adult women when when their peripheral awareness of an attractive man connects with their Hypergamous hindbrain. The biting of the lip, the beaming admiration, the laser eye focus and the hopeful smile followed by a coy embarrassment of what she’s doing when she regains her composure are all the physical cues of a woman whose primary concern is the man she’s with.

Now, contrast these images with the earlier ones in which the men are clearly the hangers-on of the women in those photos. I’ve mentioned before that a natural Alpha man is almost never aware of his own Alphaness and that’s what really stands out in these photos – the men aren’t trying to evoke the reflexive responses of the women. They fluidly (almost Zen-like) prompt these reaction in women. There is no pretense or the obvious mugging for the audience that you see in shots where the Frame is clearly being directed by the woman while the hapless Beta tries to prove how in love he is by kissing on her while she finds something more interesting to occupy herself with. When a woman admires her man he is literally all she can think about.

In closing here I want to reiterate that I’m aware that all of this is going to come off as self-serving or catty. It’s impossible to objectively interpret body language without someone resorting to point & sputter insults about how they think you’re just being petty or you’re jealous of some celebrity’s life. Be that as it may the discouraging of anyone attempting to understand sub-communications only serves the the party that has the most to gain from a larger ignorance of them. So I hope this breakdown has provided at least some useful references to consider your own, or your woman’s, default behavior when the cell phone cams come out at a party.

But if you learn nothing else from this post, and you need one take-home message, please, whatever you do, don’t be this guy in your next couples shot.

356 comments

  1. I think that you are spot on with your analysis. And I think it’s a good way for men to “self evaluate” themselves and the women in their life.

  2. Still photos are tough to judge from… a good example illustrating this is here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2971436/Scarlett-Johansson-defends-class-act-John-Travolta-awkward-Oscars-kiss.html

    But the video shows the truth:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civKjn__T4E

    However, some of the photos are remarkable enough that you can get a pretty good idea of what is going on.

    The one with Chris Pine and the girl in the red dress… yeah she in love.
    The very first one with the girl with the sparkles on her face… NOT in love.
    The Ross and Rachel one… easily the most painful and cringe-worthy one.
    Vincent Cassel… boss status confirmed

  3. I’m relatively new to TRP, just 4 years. Even so, I’m extremely lucky I’m red pill aware now at 25.

    Still, I always felt s bit funny whenever I had to take a picture with girls. They make such a big deal about it, “Heyy let’s take a pictuurrr togethrrr!” Like we had something special.

    Then as soon as the lens was up, I’d look around and I’d know: We weren’t taking a photo together. I was just the human backdrop. Most people do it to some degree.

    I hated that. I hated taking photos with anyone. I hate taking photos, period.

    So, even to this day, anytime a girl grabs me for a selfie, I just tell them to fuck off and to get their phones out of my face.

    Three years. Been with a dozen women. Never taken a photo with any of them. Strangely, that makes them want to do it even more. Sometimes, I catch them trying to sneak me into it. I usually hide my face with my palm or frown really hard. So effectively ruins the shot.

    I just hate it. Of course, they eventually ask why I do that. I always tell them I’m not here for that. She can do that with her girlfriends.

  4. I just went on instagram and looked at the pages, both male and female, of the couples I actually enjoy- couples where I feel like their marriage is a beautiful thing, they love each other, and have real, mutual respect.
    Every one has two things in common: 1) at least some religion- eg they are both committed to higher ideals than just each other and 2) Every one has the female exhibiting her attention on the guy, rather than the opposite. Like Vincent and his wife, there are photos where it is reverse, but in almost every case the guy is obviously posing humorously, and every serious shot is the girl leaning up on the guy.
    Scary stuff.

  5. I’m almost done reading “The Rational Male” the first time around. It’s an amazing read and I found it at the perfect time. I’m currently going through a divorce. 29 Y/O male in his prime, getting a divorce with his 32 Y/O wife.

    Was her decision to do this, but I could sense it coming. So what did I do?! Leading up to it, got into the best shape of my life. Currently sitting at 11% body fat and dense ASF from lifting to play D2 college football from age 19-23.

    So my question is this:

    After I pierce one of my spinning plates for the first time and we part ways. What’s next?

    Do I wait for her to reach out first? Like is there a strat for who contacts who first after a night of laying wood?

  6. Sentient

    I need to be prepared bro, LMFAO. I know if I think it through now and plan ahead I’m less prone to making the wrong move. But this is a legit concern / question.

    What’s next after I lay wood? How long do we wait for her to reach out? Who should make first poiint of contact after the lay? Is there any rule of thumb on post lay?

  7. >Most of us were taught from an early age never to “judge a book by its cover.” We were taught it’s wrong to be judgmental and it’s what’s on the inside that counts.

    Actually, everything counts. You need sufficient data to know a person well.

    Speaking of what’s on the inside, I have my own disagreements with those statements. The sheer hypocrisy of it even. I mean, if you separate a person from their mind, thoughts, beliefs, emotions, sensations, body, actions and the rest, seriously, just WHAT is left?

    Just…life? Bare consciousness? Simply existing? Nothing? If that was it, everyone would be a Buddha and there’d be no BS, but we know the truth. When people say “Just be Yourself” or “It’s what’s on the inside that counts”, it’s all hamstering and basically they’re talking BS without any real idea what they’re saying.

    In reality, when people say this, they just want you to take the focus off some part of them which they think doesn’t matter or should not come into the interaction – but the reality is that it is totally impossible to avoid all of you when someone has to have any kind of interaction with you.

  8. A video is worth a thousand photos. Because body language can’t be faked forever.

    If you really wanna know, start with the feet.

  9. All completely correct.

    My first wife used to pull away and cut short our kissing every time. She was fucking a bloke from work within 6 months of our marriage.

    @Stoic trader, take it over to field reports and give us a full rundown.

  10. Tillikum
    Is this for real? Heartiste has been all over this for what…5 years?

    Yes and no. Rollo’s digging down a little deeper, that’s all.

    tl;dr don’t be that guy, be thatguy.

    Now, reread Rollo’s OP listening to this:

  11. Roll
    >Most of us were taught from an early age never to “judge a book by its cover.” We were taught it’s wrong to be judgmental and it’s what’s on the inside that counts.

    SK
    Actually, everything counts. You need sufficient data to know a person well.

    Look deeper. The people that taught us not to judge a book by its cover, they were teaching us to distrust our own instincts and pattern-recognizers. They were teaching us not to notice things.

    Like a sleight-of-hand card trick, they taught us to look anywhere but at the action. Another red pill…

  12. @rotepillblog

    Depending on which industries you have worked in you could have various opinions on that – which are likely to be wrong.

    I can’t see any of them would affect his output here.

  13. This is absolutely spot, no question about it.
    Also the statement below is particularly relvealing of a lot of beta type behaviour and mindset, would be great to flash this out in a futher essay

    ” I’m sure the possibility exists, but more importantly I think this habit is due to men internalizing the myth that vulnerability is endearing to women. There’s this persistent lie that accompanies the vulnerability myth. That’s the lie that men can let their guard down and ‘relax’ around the woman they feel securely paired with. As a result they mentally revert to the boy who didn’t need to qualify himself for his mother’s love and they regress to a subconscious comfort in that vulnerability they believe will endear them to their woman. They sub-communicate all this in the I Love Mommy position”

  14. Good post.

    @Rollo: Joe Navarro’s recommended book (I think from the MRP reddit list of recommended material) that I read was “What every BODY is saying”. Have you read that one, how does it compare with the Dictionary of Body Language?

  15. Your interpretation of the body language in females seems solid. There may, however, be another factor at play, too.

    Ever noticed this kind of posing in poster/billboard ads with young couples? There they are, with him usually holding her and looking at her, while she seems uninterested and looks at the camera, often in a come-hither way, as if to say “Yes, I’m here with this guy, but it’s you I’d like to bang”.

    This pattern is quite common, no matter what is being advertised. I don’t want to overplay it, but I can see how it could filter into some women’s minds and influence the way they behave when being photographed.

  16. A month and a half after we got married, my Ex got pregnant. 29 years later, I’ve seen a pic that makes me now believe that the kid isn’t mine.

    Should have walked right away when she cheated on me, after got engaged. Only reason I didn’t?

    I was stupid.

    Don’t be like me.

  17. Great post. The only sentence I don’t understand is:

    “Even if I’m reading the photograph of a couple they know nothing about they associate something in the image that with how they perceive themselves.”

  18. Yes, some people will dismiss these with the claim that it’s only a moment in time, you don’t know the full context, that’s not really who they are, etc. Most of those people will be women.

    It doesn’t matter. Like what Rollo reports in general, it is easily OBSERVABLE when you start to pay attention. You can handily use people you know well to verify it, or as other commenters have already noted use photos from your own past.

    Celebrity images are not required, and most of those people make their living from pretending to be someone or something other than themselves anyway. Compare the ideas to couples you know, or have known personally. Temporary pairings, permanent (for now) pairings, or yourself past and present. You can’t help but see this play out as described.

    It’s just more confirmation that there is no such thing as the equal partnership most women claim to want. When you’re talking about men and women, somebody is operating within the other body’s frame.

  19. Great post Rollo!!!

    This is the kind of information I was recently looking for. BTW I have to say that in my blue pill days I used to think that “I love mommy” pose was cool, lolzlozlzzzzz

  20. This is a great post. One thing to bear in mind is that women collect orbiters / betas in order to compete with other women, in addition to the accepted motive of building resources. And most of these guys have absolutely no clue how badly they are being screwed.

    Re: Leaning in… My fav example of the lean-back is Sean Connery in Dr. No; as JB effortlessly pulls in the Casino Royale scene. It’s at 2:26 of the video. Embedded here http://alphamangame.com/how-to-be-an-international-man-of-mystery-in-one-easy-lesson/

  21. I think this is one of those essays that make us sit up and take notice for realz. Yes CH would mock the Beta Boy poses, and occasionally posit an Alpha photo with adoring chickie pie. But no one put the two concepts together to show: yes, yes, you CAN tell a lot about a relationship and how likely it is to remain stable from these poses and photos.

    So based on this, your homework, gentlemen, is:

    1. Look at couples around you as you people watch or encounter them in your social settings. Note their behavior, see how pervasive this stuff is. (Even before the man-lette says something stoopid like “I’ll have to ask the boss see what she thinks”).

    2. Look at your own couples photos. How do you look in them? What is she doing? She looking at you or looking away, holding you close or pushing back? Has that changed since you first got together, what does she do now vs. what she did when you first met?

    (This exercise goes for everyone, yes, #$%metoo).

    The reason these tells are “tells” is because the presentations are instinctual, almost involuntary, and even if the poses are calculated somewhat, they still reveal the useful truth, WHAT IS.

    Some of us, like Marmore, don’t like being photographed a lot, I like to duck out of pictures too when I can. No inferiority complex. When I photograph well I look fine, but in today’s selfie-type world most such shots look fake or distorted and I avoid them. I always think candids are the best, because you’re not trying to pose, it’s ok even if the expressions are a bit odd.

    “You don’t judge a book by the cover” only means someone you approach may have a different countenance or personality than their initial presentation. Maybe they like that difference, like to throw other people off. So allow for the possibility, calibrate accordingly, it doesn’t mean the first impression is per se wrong.

    But that maxim doesn’t apply to what you plainly see. If someone is exhibiting a pervasive red rash with flu symptoms you know you’re looking at a case of measles, not at the emo-crisis of an unemployed coll-grad over a poorly-rated podcast.

    Anyway, once you’ve done 1) and 2), if you don’t like what you see, that leaves:

    3.What will you do about it? What internal renovations do you have to do so your natural poses reflect your frame, your MPO, not your surrender to another’s?

  22. Lost Patrol
    It’s just more confirmation that there is no such thing as the equal partnership most women claim to want. When you’re talking about men and women, somebody is operating within the other body’s frame.

    Fred Flange testifying on CSPAN-3
    3.What will you do about it? What internal renovations do you have to do so your natural poses reflect your frame, your MPO, not your surrender to another’s?

    It’s important to bear in mind these poses are almost always unconscious at least on the part of the men. The poses are therefore “tells” regarding their mindset, their unconscious state of mind, their frame. An Average Frustrated Chump’s first step would be to consciously avoid leaning in, hoverhanding, clutching, etc. and that’s a useful thing. But as with consciously executing elementary Game techniques to deflect shit-testing, it’s just a step in the process. Training wheels on the bicycle are good but only as temporary aids.

    I”m sure we can all agree that Rollo’s last example clearly shows the unconscious mental state of man and woman. A solid frame is on display. He’s not thinking his way through, he’s just being himself.

    Body language is a key part of subcommunications. Solid subcomms in a sense precede a man into a situation.

  23. No photos.

    She has no phone.

    The tells…. I show up when I please, she always comes outside to greet on arrival, 1-3 weeks between unannounced appearances, I’m busy, no time for extended entertaining, bed always made, clean towels await, she apologizes for some previous behavior or condition of her home, though it’s tidied up… these are signs of admiration and respect. Its not complicated and the signals are clear. She doesn’t use social media, the only viable prospect in a very rural village. How many men will have the confidence play it this independently.

    Social media and public events is for those seeking attention. A very unfavorable and time wasting endeavor for any confident and accomplished male.

    Fame will certainly garner a man much female attention. But the trappings of fame and the public eye are in clear conflict with keeping command of ones destiny that an alpha maintains. Many of the Hollywood hunks of current and past are caricatures and some notoriously gay. The fleeting and fickle nature of the public eye, and facebook likes, are not the kind of food that satisfies the alpha.

  24. As soon as you adopt the Alpha body language …shit tests follow, white knights chime in about being overly “macho” and sjw’s jump In with their manspreading shit… all signs you’re doing it right

  25. My god Rollo, I am still trying to control my laughter after the last photo, you are a funny godfather!

  26. I always liked photo interpretation. Many of my friends are dancers or ring-girls. These ladies know how to pop and project out to the audience. When they do the selfies and couple photos the woman is doing her trained model pose. I find it hard to get a good read on these types of women, as I don’t know if I am seeing her inner emotional state or just the trained poise of the dancer.

  27. “It may seem like I’m splitting hairs here, but the reflexive impulse a majority of women default to is one of advertising themselves for potentially better options in the sexual marketplace.”

    This actually is a very accurate interpretation! An ex of mine started shooting narcissistic selfies after she lost some kilos and advertised herself like crazy on social media (and very likely planning her exit at the same time) after she lost some kilos and just a few few months prior to breaking up with. I jumped in one day and she was upset in a weird way that I ruined her selfie. Her reaction made me such an impression that I will never forget!

  28. Thanks for the pointers.

    What about when a guy crowds a woman, where she’s sitting and he walls her off? It looks as if its an overt mate guarding technique. Over reading this?

  29. @newly

    That’s making the rounds, it’s from Russia. Looks staged to me, but I could be wrong. Check the body language, is she really expecting any trouble?

    NYC subways were supposedly gonna crack down on manspreading a year ago, never saw anything more. Should be easy to get some medico to write a note, “Mr. Newlyaloof has a medical condition that causes his testicles to be extraordinarily large and sensitive, he must sit in a medically approved fashion at all times with his knees at least 18 inches (45 centimeters) apart. Signed, Professor Doctor Chad Ford”. Although who knows if NYC transit cops would even care.

  30. Cult i Beta

    Social media and public events is for those seeking attention. A very unfavorable and time wasting endeavor for any confident and accomplished male.

    Fame will certainly garner a man much female attention. But the trappings of fame and the public eye are in clear conflict with keeping command of ones destiny that an alpha maintains.

    Don’t try so hard, you’ll sprain something. Maybe something important.

    Pretty retarded.

    Fame/notoriety is just as much a consequence of excellence or performance. And all the world is a stage.

  31. Stoic Trader

    What’s next after I lay wood? How long do we wait for her to reach out? Who should make first poiint of contact after the lay? Is there any rule of thumb on post lay?

    Yeah you are approaching this wrong. You need to understand frame, neediness and outcome independence. This is a Why question not a How question.

  32. @Sentient

    Shut the fuck up with your old guy cryptic bullshit and just answer the dude’s fucking question. Jesus.

    @stoic

    After fucking new girls, I hand them my phone so they can give me their number. Then I’ll text them my name and that’s it. If she doesn’t initiate texts within 3 days that means you sucked in bed.

    So after 3 days, I’d send her something silly (a meme will do). No sexting news girls to activate ASD (unless she one of them dirty hoes). A few back and forth messages then pitch a meet to either your place or hers (I hate that whole “what’s your schedule look like” – sounds to professional (not sexy) to me ) to watch a movie or hang out and eat pizza. She’ll tell you when shes free. Don’t play hard to ge heret. Just say “cool” to whenever she’s free and then fuck her to solidify Fuckbuddy status.

  33. J

    If she doesn’t initiate texts within 3 days that means you sucked in bed.

    just think about what you wrote… lol

    You can follow your script… better to know WHY than HOW… when you understand why, you get the how as a result…

  34. @Stoic Trader: There’s a phenomenon sometimes called “lock-in” where, after having sex a few times, the dynamic changes from cat-and-mouse to the presumption that you’ve got something ongoing (whatever that “something” is). Usually it happens after the second lay, but you’ll probably know when you feel the dynamic shift.

    Before lock-in, your goal should be to get to lock-in as soon as possible. Remember this rule: Strike while the iron is hot. Pre-lock-in, a woman’s chaos might easily take her out of your orbit. Never act needy, of course, but don’t delay.

    After lock-in, slow down. If you want to spin multiple plates or you don’t want her to become an emotionally involved full-fledged girlfriend, see her once a week or less. (More than once a week seems to be the monogamous girlfriend trigger.)

    Specifically after the first lay, I always send the girl a cheerful (but very non-needy!) text or two within 24 hours, so she knows she’s not pumped-and-dumped. (How soon I pitch the next meeting depends on my schedule, but I don’t gratuitiously delay until she’s locked in.)

  35. Specifically after the first lay, I always send the girl a cheerful (but very non-needy!) text or two within 24 hours, so she knows she’s not pumped-and-dumped.

    I was thinking about this…seems that the FI is pushing on you…why not let her wonder…let her invest more and text you…then you can be emotionally warm to her after she contacts you…the contact may be a snarky shit test, in which case you A&A and lol and turn the tables on her, saying that you were wondering if she was pumping and dumping you or whether she wanted to get together for drinks again…keep her chasing you…

  36. @j

    thank you for your response

    @sentient, your response was too vague. I have a rudimentary understanding of the why, I’ve read almost all of Rationale Male and most of the posts over at illimitable men.. “understanding the why” doesn’t help me…

    @Johnny Caustic

    this was the best one so far, thanks bro!! the “lock-in” concept is something I have never heard of, appreciate your guidance!!

  37. ****** safety warning ******

    Never mount an egg McMuffin on a spinning plate without first donning an appropriate safety zoot and eye protection.

    You could end up looking like a decorators radio

  38. In fact I’d never mount anything on a spinning plate without enthusiastic consent.

    You’d risk your intentions being telegraphed down the road, then you’d have done your money for nothing, risked a private investigation, and your chicks would be unlikely to be free.

    Just sayin..

  39. @Stoic:

    What’s next after I lay wood? How long do we wait for her to reach out? Who should make first poiint of contact after the lay? Is there any rule of thumb on post lay?

    Part of the response to these questions isn’t so much in a technical answer, it’s really in your own attitude. At the heart of this is “Abundance mentality”.

    I used to panic when I would bang a hot girl and then wonder what the Alpha protocols are.

    She’s a plate. The more attention you give the more you give signals that you’re a provider interested in some type of bf/gf relationship.

    I’ve gotten good at this to the point where the follow up is whenever I feel like it.

    I try to rotate plates every 2 weeks. So if I bang one on a Sunday I will set something up in 10 days.

    What you’ll find is that THEY will reach out and then you can banter back and forth until you reach the point where they “Get it.”

    I met a girl this week who’s visiting my city. We go for drinks, play pool. She suddenly brings up “Sooooo are you married?” When that happens you know it’s on. You don’t have to overly sexualize things, it’s all in the sub-text.

    That’s the point where I invite her over for a second follow up—ie: bang. “IF you promise not to burn down my kitchen let’s cook…” Come over and cook=let’s bang.

  40. “why not let her wonder…let her invest more and text you…then you can be emotionally warm to her after she contacts you”

    +1

    “What you’ll find is that THEY will reach out and then you can banter back and forth until you reach the point where they “Get it.””

    and +1

  41. The when to text debate.

    The definitive answer was given in the movie Swingers (tho it was call not text in 1996).

    If you recall, the running joke throughout the film was how long they wait to call girls after they get their numbers… 2 days, 3 days, six days:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV-m9bJTrh8

    [

    So how long do I wait to call?
    Trent: A day.
    Mike: Tomorrow?
    Trent: No
    Sue: Tomorrow, then a day.
    Trent: Yeah.
    Mike: So two days?
    Trent: Yeah, I guess you could call it that… two days.
    Sue: Definitely. Two days is like industry standard.
    Trent: I used to wait two days to call anybody, but now it’s like everyone in town waits two days. So I think three days is kinda money. What do you think?
    Sue: Two’s enough not to look anxious.
    Trent: Two’s enough not to look anxious. But I think three days is kinda money.
    Mike: Maybe I’ll wait three weeks. How’s that? And tell her I was cleaning out my wallet and I just happened to run into her number.
    Charles: Then ask her where you met her.
    Mike: Yeah. I don’t remember. What does she look like? Then I’ll ask if we fucked. Would that… T, would that be the money?
    Trent: You know what? Ha, ha, ha, Mike. Laugh all you want. But if you call too soon, you might scare off a nice baby who’s ready to party.
    Mike: Well how long are you guys gonna wait to call your babies?
    Trent/Sue (at the same time): Six days.

    ]

    Then, close to the end of the movie in the waffle house after Mike hits it off with Heather Graham while dancing to Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Trent advises Mike to wait three days to call and Sue interjects…

    “You don’t have to wait”

    …due to the fact that he witnessed the strong vibe between the two.

    I agree with Sue.

    When a girl is super into you, texting the day after is not going to screw anything up. It will only put her off if she is on the fence.

    I am not saying you SHOULD text right away, I am saying you should not hold off on texting if you want to just because some convention tells you to wait to not appear needy.

    And speaking of needy… you know the best way to not APPEAR needy?
    Answer… don’t BE needy.

    If you are not needy, your actions will not appear that way even if they are usually considered to be “overly eager” behaviors… like texting “too early”. Its like magic.

  42. @CF

    great movie.

    My text advice has nothing to do with waiting 2-3 days to not “appear needy”. It was to create uncertainty and make her invest (chase me). push/pull.

    I accomplish that by fucking her well, having a great connection with her…lots of laughs…then as she’s about to go (or I’m getting dressed, about to leave her apartment) I’ll toss her my phone, (Pull – wait he wants my number? that means he wants to see me again) then text her my name…so she’s now expecting me to text her shit like every other guy, but then I don’t (push – but why did he ask for my number if he hasn’t texted me besides his name? did something happen to him? did he meet another girl???) – which creates that chasing effect….plus it’s no effort on your end haha (Law of Least Effort).

  43. Legendary AFL (Australian Football League) coach Mick Malthouse has upset butch lesbian women’s footballer Moanna Hope (check her pic out) by stating he doesn’t like the game how it is (same rules as for men) because it’s too rough for females to play. She stormed out of a panel and he and another legendary player Jason Akermanis basically just laughed at her unprofessional attitude. I’d also rather watch U/14 boys play than watch women trying to play such a brutal, masculine game. Fun times!

    ‘Regarding Hope’s behaviour on Thursday, Malthouse told AFL Media: “It was very, very unprofessional.

    “If she cared to listen instead of looking at her phone for most of the event, she would understand.”

    The former Richmond premiership player also compared six-six-six starting positions, which is tipped to be introduced by the AFL for 2019, as similar to netball, where players should “wear skirts”.

    “Apparently she [Hope] has had a crack at me in terms of what I said about netball,” he told AFL Media.

    “[I was saying] the new rules are similar to netball, in other words, positioning. Not one word about female football, females or anything else.

    “Unfortunately, she came with that attitude, she was very disappointing as far as I’m concerned on the panel.

    “Had she listened, she would’ve been a little bit wiser.” ‘

    https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-don-t-like-the-women-s-game-as-it-is-mick-malthouse-defends-comments-20180928-p506ld.html

  44. Good write up on an important, if not touchy topic, Rollo. I can definitely admit to being the ‘leaner’ in many a situation. On one hand it felt natural like “yeah I want my affection for this hot woman captured in the moment”, but looking through the RP lens it clearly displays the sub conscious power dynamic..

    The ‘I love mommy’ thing is a bit unsettling, but I get it. Most men want to dote on a woman they’re comfortable with.. when in reality it should be the other way around..

    As RP aware men we should always be aware of who’s doing the leaning, and who’s trying to assure the other of their intent/feelings/commitment.. etc. If you find yourself on the bottom of that dynamic more than once or twice, you’ll be there till the bitter end..

  45. “I accomplish that by fucking her well…”

    Everything else is easier if you do this early and well.

  46. In the confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh talked about involving his girls in sports to help them develop (masculine) confidence. He doesn’t get, like many fathers raising daughters as if they were sons, that, he is feeding the beast that is devouring him.

    As for Blasey-Ford being courageous, I thought that courage was acting in the face of real danger. The argument that she has nothing to gain is ludicrous. It’s all upside and no downside. The FI is marching out Anita Hill. They think they are drawing some parallel. They are counting on people begin too young or uninformed to know what really happened during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing. In a nutshell, Anita Hill was a lying bitch, who became the “Rosa Parks” of sexually harassed women. She now lives a cushy existence as a professor and honored speaker. I doubt that Blasey-Ford can benefit beyond some quick gofundme money. She comes across as a total twit, who along with her hippocampus, should be under the care of a legal guardian when she is allowed to leave a supervised group home.

    And Cosby not only convicted, but a “sexually violent” predator. A frail, blind, 81 year old man. Hide your wife! Hide your kids! I would be interested to hear what the commentators are saying now, who believed that being alpha provides some protection from #metoo, and “credible allegations of sexual misconduct” that have no statute of limitations.

  47. Big news – TRP is getting quarantined on reddit. I don’t think it will be long before it’s shut down.

    If there was ever a case for the ultimate law of power “Make your own kingdom”, here we are. We can never have our way in someone else’s house.

  48. Best post yet I’ve read here.

    I’m more a visual person so these photos explained so very well the whole concept of “frame” — excellent stuff — and yes I have to say over the years I’ve ended up doing them all far too often

    I decided to look back at photos taken on my wedding day 20 yrs ago and also a set of “informal” photos taken just before by the same photographer. Interesting as at that time I had frame and XW was clearly the one leaning into me. But over the years I lost it and therefore her respect, etc. for me; hence why she’s about to become an ex.

    It’s been good to find this site these past few months and even in my 50’s I’m learning an awful lot. Good links that guys are posting too and it’s amazing how many awful beta habits I have that I need to get rid of; e.g. I was the beta with his hands in his pockets with bad posture staring at the ground as I ambled along. Now I keep arms to my side, stand tall and walk with my head up looking at the world and others. And it works. I notice I feel more confident from this new habit. Long way to go yet though as you just don’t get rid of 50 years of beta-ness overnight

  49. Just checked TRP on reddit and wow yes it’s been “quarantined” — quite frankly that action validates the message here, there and on similar places

    One observation — I was in London UK on the weekend with my kids and walking past a university there in the centre I was overwhelmed with how beta the young uni males were — it was just so obvious to notice — I reckon this is why women are hooking up with males from non-Western countries because those males are just naturally alpha as they know no other way

  50. @Simbo, good to hear you’ve found the pill.
    Do some field reports, man. Let’s hear about how that marriage slipped away and what you are doing now.

  51. What an outstanding article !
    Thank you very much….
    Do not be deterred by any disparaging comments or White Knight criticism.
    Seeing reality and writing as you do will always uncover heartfelt validation by some and militant resistance by others. Stay the course !
    The Meta Messages that you are reading are there for all to see. They express the Female Imperative that has been empowered, but denied. It is far past time for this condition to be openly acknowledged. I believe it was Socrates that remarked that “Male hierarchies work”. Men now find themselves within the frames of the distaff sex. So they lean in.
    That posture, as you so well report, is a Beta Tell. For those men who want to be part of the solution to this status, and who have the moral courage, we must delineate our boundaries, and live within them. We determine which relationships exist, and we must reject those outside the self interest of our boundaries. That means, in part, you will not just “do anything for sex”. We need to set women free to experience the full consequences of their behavior, while retaining our own autonomy and self-interest.
    There is nothing wrong with Game or Sex, but it must be within our frame. Natural Selection does not plead for its goals, and we must not either. Select what and who meets your frame, and execute what does not: NEXT !
    We are in a fight to the finish. We are (again) on the battle field at Runny Meade. Rollo has created and written Magna Carta. Man up !

  52. Roused… interesting observation.

    Now I am curious to know if she made any Long Dong Silver references that I missed.

  53. Great tips not just for photos but for intersexual people-watching in real-time. Notice on TV news panels who is dominant and who is submissive. Look at advertising as well for these cues — wonder how that’s evolved over the decades.

    It also overlaps nicely with the body-language experts who look for tells that someone is lying or speaking the truth — certainly a hot topic in recent days.

  54. Roused
    Ford using Coca Cola as a reference to Clarence Thomas and the pubic hair on a can of Coke. First she was drinking coffee, then switched to Coke.

    She probably just wanted that yummy High Fructose Corn Syrup, because a can of Coke would be required for that reference. It would be a subtle reference, and “subtle” is not a word I would use to refer to any part of yesterday’s Senate Kabuki theater.

  55. I’m wholly convinced from decades of observation and dealing with people in various situations, that the ” average ” person is incapable of discerning what is ” truth “. People learn how to use false body language clues to convey whatever manipulative message they’d like. The interwebs has only served to vastly multiply the effect.

    Remember, in a.consumer driven ecosystem, suckers make the best customers.

    Body language has become standardized. This.pretty much renders it as not all that reliable in the end. That’s the danger in the demand for compliance and submission. It results in Olympian levels of.fake-ness.

    The eyes will always be the window. They are one of the absolute first things a man should learn to read. Proper reading takes years and years and hundreds of subjects to master, and even then it’s not foolproof. Words and.pictures? Lol, inconsequential mostly, particularly over the past couple of decades.

  56. Thanks newly. Like the famous JFK-Nixon debate, a lot of reaction may hinge on whether you were watching or listening. I’m more verbal than visual so I had the radio on — heard all the uptalk and vocal fry but missed stage business like the Coke can Roused caught.

    Rollo’s breakdown also raises once again the subject of eye contact, and I’ve come to see that a lot of conversation is mere window dressing to allow for the big eyelock in a socially acceptable way. As a verbal rather than visual person that was an important lesson to learn.

  57. If–“I would be interested to hear what the commentators are saying now, who believed that being alpha provides some protection from poundmeetoo, and “credible allegations of sexual misconduct” that have no statute of limitations.”

    Regarding poundmeetoo, one of the issues I have in the sphere is that stance that it is just a tool to take out bad betas and better delineate betas from alphas. It is a much more sinister cancer. In fact every alpha widow now has the template to take out that alpha that didn’t provide that for which she was entitled to any time she wants to. This will not end well.

  58. If

    I would be interested to hear what the commentators are saying now, who believed that being alpha provides some protection from #metoo, and “credible allegations of sexual misconduct” that have no statute of limitations

    Coz alpha? How? By serially drugging and raping?

    Very very few actors/performers are alpha. It’s a profession which attracts needy betas.

    The quote was “there is no statute of limitations on beta”… You have it wrong.

  59. O.B.I.T.
    heard all the uptalk and vocal fry but missed stage business like the Coke can Roused caught.

    It was a plastic bottle. Not a can. Difference is obvious.

  60. Very very few actors/performers are alpha. It’s a profession which attracts needy betas.

    “I’m not an alpha but I play one on [TV, movie, stage]”.

    The only difference between a local community campus theater and Hollywood is the quality of fakery.

  61. @Centuries

    “Regarding poundmeetoo, one of the issues I have in the sphere is that stance that it is just a tool to take out bad betas and better delineate betas from alphas. It is a much more sinister cancer. In fact every alpha widow now has the template to take out that alpha that didn’t provide that for which she was entitled to any time she wants to. This will not end well.”

    Agree! #poundmetoo can be utilised in numerous ways. To extract $$ from a sugar daddy/wealthy ex, to settle old scores and punish an ex who dumped them or an alpha who was unwilling to provide. But mostly will be utilised to consolidate hypergamy in a total way, to the point that men will be too intimidated to approach women and drop out of the dating market altogether! Only women will be allowed to approach, in a similar way as in the Bumble dating app. but now applied in society at large!

  62. On the subject of when(or if) to call back after first night stand…

    Even contemplating this question is over thinking.

    Here is what she will be hamstering in the time you do not call.

    He must have not liked the sex. (She thinks she is inadequate)

    He must have other girls. (You should, or at least project such)

    He’s an asshole. (Means she will attempt to get even or resolve upon next meet. Good for rough and tumble)

    In all these hamster spins, she will be obsessing on whether to call you.

    If you call before she does, hopefully later than sooner, she will invariably say, I was just thinking of calling you. Blow that off and tell her “you will be at such and such place, Be there” click.

  63. @Anonymous Reader

    “The only difference between a local community campus theater and Hollywood is the quality of fakery.”

    I think the targets have more money as well

  64. @AR
    Right, I see the bottle now in that Bombard analysis from newlyaloof. The way it’s sitting there over the tiny insert of the sex-crimes DA (at the 25:00 mark) makes it look like the new 500-gallon-sized drink bottle in one of my favorite Onion stories.

  65. “It was a plastic bottle. Not a can. Difference is obvious.”

    Right. It was plastic. The symbolism still matters. I do not believe it was coincidence, not with these people. How many vending machines sell cans now? Most don’t its all plastic. You have to buy a 12-pack or case to get cans for the most part.

  66. I think the targets have more money as well

    That’s irrelevant.

    Roused
    The symbolism still matters. I do not believe it was coincidence, not with these people.

    I believe you are overthinking. Don’t assume subtlety where mere sugar addiction will suffice.

    Most people don’t even know who Clarence Thomas is, let alone remember history book stuff from over 25 years ago.

  67. Blaximus
    People learn how to use false body language clues to convey whatever manipulative message they’d like. The interwebs has only served to vastly multiply the effect.

    Wait, what? What? The social environment has changed due to technology? Zowie!
    You gonna tell YaReally or should I?

    Heh.

    Anyway. Compulsive selfie-world plus snapchat / Instagram / etc. has clearly had an effect on the kind of body language that girls practice. It’s also affected men, in particular the bizarre soy-soaked “open-mouth-gape-like-a-fish” fake smile that is showing up in more pics of 20-something men. It’s the male equivalent of duckface, maybe. Not a good look.

    Body language has become standardized.

    Likely been that way since the 1920’s when movies became common. I was looking at some pictures from the 1940’s the other day and the girls in those pics were clearly copying someone from Hollywood in their poses. Just more intensified in the 24 / 7 social media whirl.

  68. @Anonymous

    It’s a larger resource transfer or more of them

    That’s got to be relevant to a target

  69. “girls in those pics were clearly copying someone from Hollywood”

    Whatever (((Hollywood))) promotes, thats what girls will do

  70. “It’s the male equivalent of duckface, maybe. Not a good look.”

    Yes. It’s intended to make you look like an idiot.

    Because idiots aren’t held to the same degree of accountability. Submission “don’t hurt me” posture.

  71. @Palmasailor

    You’re saying that a Beta who becomes an actor will turn into an Alpha when he has enough money, is that correct?

  72. Blaximus
    “Body language has become standardized. This.pretty much renders it as not all that reliable in the end. That’s the danger in the demand for compliance and submission. It results in Olympian levels of.fake-ness.”

    Just looking at myself and a trigger I was dealing with this morning. As much as I appreciate the process of interacting in ways to fortify myself I lack many important skills in getting my point across. Maybe this could have something to do with a domain dependence on using the internet to much. Social mistakes and failures are ways to learn and navigate life and family business and civic engagements. This morning I was doing paper work an stuff that brought up a good amount of triggers that set off some rage responses. I was frustrated again about not having control over a process I found myself frozen in dealing with.

    The lack of a personal arsenal in dealing with the turbulent madness outside my sphere of influence is frustrating but another learning experience of what dosnt work. Life’s to beautiful to focus on what you don’t have control over and to sort to not be fully lived.

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