The Instinctual Process

I want to thank you if you’ve made it through the first part of this series and you stuck with it. In some respects I can see why it might be odd that I’m covering cognitive processes, however, these are really the foundational premises for so many other Red Pill intersexual dynamics, as well as interpersonal and even social dynamics between humans that they deserve some sort of fleshing out. Again, I want to stress that these cognitive processing models are ideas I’m coming to and not settled science. However, they are based on both classic interpretations combined with the benefit of what we know about the biological, evolutionary and anthropological aspects of the cognitive processes today.

If you made the connection to Freud’s components of personality models – the Id, Ego and Super Ego – in the last post you at least grasp something of the initial theory I’m building on here. Useful as they are, Freud’s models lacked anything like an understanding of how the human mind works or how it evolved to the degree we take for granted today. Freud made his best guess at these processes from an inner psyche perspective. He formed his theories from what he deduced was operating inside our heads. My belief is that his (and others’) cognitive process models evolved and developed in response to interpreting our environment and the stimuli that our senses translated to them in our formative evolutionary past. Really, all of these interpretive processes, Instinct, Emotion and Reason, are the result of our experiential lives and the many benefits they provided us in surviving and reproducing.

All of that is not to discount the internal psyche and how these processes define who we are. Freud’s model proposed the Id, Ego and Superego are components of personality, what I’m proposing is that these components are the result of evolved cognitive processes – Instinct, Emotion and Reason – that served to create these inner models which later became those components of personality. I should say that I’m not entirely sold on these Freudian components, but I can see how cognitive processes would’ve led to developing them. I propose that these components of personality, Freud’s or other’s, are the products of these interpretive processes.

The Ego is a result of the Rational (Reason) process, while the Superego is a summation of the Emotional process. Since I don’t want to veer off into the psychology lesson in all this I’ll leave this proposition for another essay, but I do want to make a distinction here; What I’m proposing in this series is that our evolved interpretive processes are the means by which we interpret our reality, which in turn shapes who we are individually, socially and sexually.

Base Instincts

Stripped down, the Id is a result of the Instinctual process and largely resides in our unconscious or preconscious experience. Instinct is reflexive, and the behaviors it prompts are directly related to our basic survival and reproductive needs. Instinct operates outside our consciousness because of the inability of the human brain to focus on the endless sources of stimulus we experience in life. As good as we’d like to think we are with multi-tasking our interpretive cognition can only process so much; the rest is pushed into our subconscious periphery and hindbrain subroutines. This is the auto-pilot part of our instinctual cognition.

Since we largely see our Rational and Emotional processes (not to mention our social consciousness) as “higher order” processes, we tend to downplay the importance of Instinct. Our Instinctive process evolved to sustain our physical survival and reproductive imperatives in as pragmatic and practical a way as would be expedient. In most respects Instinctual interpretation and cognition is, by necessity, based on immediacy. By comparison, Emotion and Reason are slower forms of cognition, and, in the case of Reason, requires a period of learning, development and internalization. As such, there is no complication of conscience or morality, nor time for rational or emotional reflection when instinctual awareness and action is necessary. All the things we call sin or immoral, unethical or duplicitous, are manifested by our Instinctual process. But so too are ennobling aspects like self-sacrifice, violence-in-protection, mate guarding and parental investment. Hypergamy is also a behavioral and psychological dynamic that is deeply rooted in the Instinctual process.

Because of all that instinct often carries a negative preconception, at least by modern standards. And thus the Id becomes the part of the human psyche inseparably connected to the instinctual process. The desire for immediate gratification, the direct, unmitigated satisfaction of our most basic needs, and the hedonistic pursuit of pleasure; all of these we associate with the Id. However, all of these basic gratifications are directed towards elements of our evolved, instinctual needs for survival and insurances of thriving in the future. Much of what we think of as impulsivity is connected to the immediate aspect of instinct, but even this often serves some latent biological or survival purpose.

Gendered Differences

In psychology 101 we’re taught to think of the Id as our ‘childish’ selves. How many times have we read in the manosphere about how men can better relate with women via Amused Mastery or relating to them like a bratty younger sister? This process, this PUA technique, is a subconscious appeal to women’s Id via the Instinctual process. When I proposed that women want a man who Just Gets It a huge part of that dynamic relies on a man appealing to a woman’s Instinctual cognition. This is exactly why demonstrating an intent serves so much better than explicating an intent. Actions speak louder than words because actions always speak clearly to our Instinctual processing. Yet one more reason I, and most of my Red Pill contemporaries, advocate for the Medium being the Message – behavior almost always appeals to instinct.

One of the questions I’m always asked by guys is, how do I know when a woman is in whichever phase of her ovulation? Usually this is prompted by some reasoned want to be able to know when to turn up the Alpha around their girlfriend’s proliferative phase and ease off when she’s in her luteal (down cycle) phase. When you look at this in terms of cognitive processes, a man’s Reasoning process wants to deductively solve a problem that is rooted in the Instinctual process. It certainly makes sense, like a lot of other problems, to use our smarts to solve that reproductive problem. The real problem is that the use of Reason is what defeats the Instinctual cognition. There are actually many subconscious, instinctual mechanisms men have evolved to determine a great deal of information about women reproductive states, but our Reason and what goes into influencing it, tends to make us discount what out Instinctive process is telling us.

Most guys get frustrated with Game at some stage of their learning (Reason) it. The most common complaint is “I can never hope to remember all of this shit perfectly all the time. I can’t calibrate the way I need to, or, this is all an act, when can I let my hair down and just relax with a girl?” Another common question/presumption guys hit me with is how I manage to continually Game my wife. The answer I almost universally give is that I don’t, in fact, consciously Game my wife. Rather, my success in our marriage and really all of my relationships with all the women in my life is the result of having internalized what I’ve learned from Red Pill awareness and made it who I am. I’ve taken what I’ve learned and internalized it to the point that Game became my instinctual response to women’s instinctual process.

Game is not an act for me, it’s an instinct. If you were to put a guitar in my hands today I could play it with a good degree of proficiency. I can play by ear and instinctually I anticipate where notes and chord progressions go if I’m trying to play a song I’ve never played before because I’ve been playing guitar for the better part of my life. However, there was a point in time where all of that was foreign to me. I could play by rote memorization, but playing music wasn’t instinctual. Playing an instrument wasn’t part of who I was at that point in time.

The same is true for internalizing Game. It is entirely possible for your Rational process to inform your Instinctual process as well as your Emotional processes. This interplay can work for all our cognitive processes, but as I’m focusing on instinct today I want to stress again that Rational and Emotional processes can alter the, largely subconscious, Instinctual process. I have pretty good pitch as a result of being a musician for so long. If you asked me to play a particular note or chord I would instinctively do so. What I wouldn’t do is hunt around the fretboard counting frets and string to come to it. This is the best illustration I can give you with regards to internalizing other things.

Martial arts is another good example. There are certain innate, instinctual reactions we have when we’re confronted with conflict or protecting ourselves. When something flies at our faces we flinch. When we hear a sudden loud noise we startle. These are inborn parts of our firmware that evolved in us for very good reasons. What martial arts training does is forces us to sublimate those natural instincts and replace them with more efficient instinctual responses. Again, this is the Rational process rewriting the instinctual process via internalization.

Art has always been something I’ve had an innate ability for. I have do doubt that many of our natural cognitive ‘gifts’ are in some way gene expressions. So when we see a ‘natural’ at something our rational/emotional minds tend to think of it as something almost supernatural. However, I had to learn to play music because I was determined to express myself creatively in that fashion as well, and that took perseverance and internalization of skills. I think the same can be said for guys we think are ‘naturals’ with regard to Game and women. They may have an instinctual affinity for Game. They may be blessed with good genetics. But Game can be learned and internalized down to the Instinctual level.

All of that said, there are still fundamental parts of our mental firmware that are ‘pre-loaded’ into us at birth. Shit tests, Hypergamy, mate guarding behaviors, ovulatory shift behaviors, and many more are in-loaded in women and every bit as Instinctual as breathing or eating or self-preservation. Just as there are physical gender differences in our brains and bodies, so too are their differences in men and women’s Instinctual processes. The easiest one for us to consider is in sexual imperatives. I’ve noted in many essays that only women are Hypergamous. Men and women’s sexual strategies are reflective of their differing physical and mental make up, but those strategies are also different (and often contradicting) as a result of the Instinctual process unique to men and women as well.

One of the more powerful instincts men have is our sexual impulse and as a consequence it’s one that we are taught to control the most. Hypergamy is also a product of women’s Instinctual process, however, since about 60 years ago, prosocial control over Hypergamy has become something individual to a woman. Men’s self-control over their sexual nature is something that’s been part of our upbringing for millennia, women today are just now being expected to self-police their own sexual impulsivity.

These innate gender differences in instinct are a very difficult aspect of human nature for both egalitarian equalists and traditional moralists to accept. Equalists chomp at the bit with respect to their ego-investments in blank-slate idealism. Even the idea of a gendered difference in human nature, much less a human “nature” at all (a concept most deny) conflicts with the social constructivism that forms most of their ideology. Moralists tend to think that acknowledging (much less embracing) our instinctual selves is endorsing the worst of it, or it’s some kind of license to shirk the personal responsibilities for it. And, for both equalist and moralist, accepting our instinctual natures seems deterministic in a way that conflicts with their sense of existential control.

Well, the good news for both is that understanding men and women’s Instinctually processed natures is something our other two processes (for better or worse) have an influence over. There’s a common refrain from equalists today that presumes we’ve “evolved beyond” our base instincts (if they acknowledge them at all). From moralists we’ve always been ‘higher minded’ and above our instincts, that is if we accept some ideological ‘truth’. The root of both of these presumptions can be traced to the Emotional and Rational processes influencing our Instinctive process.

I’m of the opinion that very few of us are actually ruled by our instincts, but they are always the favorite scapegoat for ideologues. As a Red Pill aware man I think it’s important to have an objective understanding of how the Instinctive process operates in ourselves and women. Denying or disqualifying the importance of instinct and why it evolved is usually one of the biggest blindspots for a Blue Pill conditioned mind.

In the next part of this series I’ll explore the Emotional process and how it’s become the preeminent social-defining experience for us.

 

531 comments

  1. @Rollo. “Game is not an act for me, it’s an instinct.”

    I disagree. Much of Game is counter-intuitive: When she pulls away your first instinct is to chase. But the correct game and Red Pill response is to pull back further.

    These are learned by most guy who like myself have spent years getting good at game and internalising the Res Pill and STILL second guess whether we texted too much or whether we responded too soon or appeared too needy.

    I’m re-reading the Mystery Method and it still sounds counter-intuitive: Neg!??? Why!??

  2. If you read my post on Sexual Macrodynamics, you’ll see why game is instinctual. Pose…chase…catch…grapple…show indifference…that stuff all happens in the moment, apart from our rational processes…

    …a neg is an attempt to unbalance the female, like so much of game…shit tests are an attempt to grapple and test the male’s fitness for mating…etc.

  3. Rollo, I totally get every single thing you are discussing! I have an under graduate degree in Psychology and was top of my class in behavioral psychology! I reached out to you because in my last relationship I kept a journal for 9 years. The language and terms I used lead me understand I was involved with a pathological narcissist . That drove me to the Redpull community! I am on board and can never unsee what is now clear!
    Thank you!
    Shelly Krongard

  4. @Walawala

    The biggest threshold in Mastery of Game is the one of getting into Unconscious Competence.

    That’s all Rollo’s statement is about: Unconscious Competence phase and Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s Flow State. The more you have to think about it, the more you aren’t there.

    It’s a really big threshold. I’ve found myself having to stumble over that threshold time and time again. But when I don’t think about it? I’m there.

    The solution is to get out of your head. To use your functions of Sensing not Thinking. To Act without Thinking. To get in that flow state.

    I think you are closer to that than you believe. If you don’t believe that you are still unwinding ingrained Blue Pill ideals. There is nothing wrong with that, but move towards that state.

  5. Shelly! Thanks for your enthusiasm! We’re super pumped you’re here too! You were a cheerleader in school! I can tell!

    Show us what you’ve got! I’ll get you started!

    Ready! O.K.! My name is Shelly!

  6. “I reached out to you because in my last relationship I kept a journal for 9 years. The language and terms I used lead me understand I was involved with a pathological narcissist.”

    Wait…Shelly krongard? THE Shelly Krongard? Shelly belly! After all we went through, so many years, I could tell you got off on my egomania. Your comment doesn’t deny it, now doesn’t it?

    You know, babe, I’ve only gotten better looking, smarter, richer, more charming since I ghosted. Nothing personal about you. It was me not you.

  7. “blockquote>The Redpull Community!

    Sweetness!

    Get out your guitars and riff.

    This song is an attack on the demanding and merciless media. Front man, Morrissey, describes being hounded by the press and even compares himself to the French martyr, Joan of Arc.

  8. Wala

    I disagree. Much of Game is counter-intuitive: When she pulls away your first instinct is to chase. But the correct game and Red Pill response is to pull back further.

    It’s an instinct for some, and reinforced by positive experiences, i.e. the results of their efforts. Others will never grasp it. Learned or not.

    Look no further than any kindergarten anywhere.

  9. @Sjf

    The ability not to face palm every slip up is moving towards conscious competence.

    Mystery makes the point: not everyone is fucking with you…

    My Latin dance coach tells me the same “enjoy the steps…”

    Getting blown out of a set is normal but when it happens less and less it’s harder than when it happened a lot…

  10. Wala

    Getting blown out of a set is normal but when it happens less and less it’s harder than when it happened a lot…

    If it’s harder it’s an ego investment on your part…

  11. @ Sentient

    When I was in high school I knew one natural…this guy was banging everything and every hoy girl.

    He had a motorcycle and was basically clueless about anything beyond just banging….

    His goal was to bang and he did… I didn’t really see him doing anything more than just smiling and then basically being in his own head.

    Sadly I learned he died recently of a heart attack. He never knew he had a problem and was always very sporty and active.

    The bottom line he truly did not give a fuck about anything apart from what he wanted.

    He was never ever a jerk…at least not to me….always generous kind fun to be around.

    Somehow those were all skills I had but didn’t harness until I discovered game.

    I would plough on like this guy did… but I cared about the outcome …he didn’t.

    I never saw this guy upset about anything…

    He could never explain why he was good he just did it…until he found another girl and another…

  12. Wala

    The bottom line he truly did not give a fuck about anything apart from what he wanted.

    The Platinum Rule incarnate…

  13. The bottom line he truly did not give a fuck about anything apart from what he wanted.

    He was never ever a jerk…at least not to me….always generous kind fun to be around.

    Somehow those were all skills I had but didn’t harness until I discovered game.

    I would plough on like this guy did… but I cared about the outcome …he didn’t.

    I just now finished Kevin Dutton’s book The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success

    Some guys can turn off their part of the brain that is a Blue Pill weakness. The part of the brain that worries. And utilize: charisma, charm, coolness under pressure, fearlessness, focus, impulsivity, lack of conscience, mental toughness, reduced empathy and ruthlessness. It’s like not being scared by a scary situation.

    “None of these characteristics are inherently bad in themselves. When they become dysfunctional is when they are deployed inflexibly in the wrong contexts.”</i?

    I'm pretty high in Contentiousness and low in Dark Triad traits. But I have a couple of mentors, buddies that are the opposite. They complement my understanding of what we all know is going on here with Game. So they are a great resource. Look to those guys for exemplars. They won't corrupt you.

  14. Thanks Rollo. You cleared up the ” internalization ” thing I’ve been going on about over at least 3 posts. Ditto with the ” natural “.

    In my case, I trust my instincts over the rational and the logical. Ration and logic play a role, but depending on what’s going on, they usually will take a backseat to instinct. Instinct has literally saved my life on.a few occasions where if I’d depended on problem solving, I wouldn’t be here to type this.

    Your instincts can be honed, tested and modified.

    Sun could chime in on martial arts stuff, as I only managed to be a mediocre martial artist, but I was ( I hate that new term, ” was ” ) a highly ranked amateur once upon a time, so I try to get guys learning/practicing pua to understand the simple concept of not thinking once your understanding becomes internalized. I’ve been in the ring with guys that You could see were thinking way too much. These guys found any ” on the fly ” improvisation impossible. That’s not logical. It doesn’t make sense. Boom!!! Boom!!, Thanks for playing…goodnight.

    So you sit at a bar next to your ideal smokeshow, whose been getting hit on since 7th grade consistently, and she’s in zero mood for amateur your with you. If you are sitting there thinking like your taking a calc exam, I hope your chute is clinched up tight as your ejection may have great force.

    True internalized game has no real discernible thought process. No alphabet and numbers. It’s simple : how bad do you want to succeed and how hard are you willing to work to rewire and rebuild yourself? Anything that you still have to think really hard about is something that has not been internalized or mastered.

    At my age, I never worry that anyone whose not a trained fighter is ever gonna punch me in the face.It’s not out of hubris or ego, but out of repititious training over a decade that became internalized to the point the Joe public is of no concern in that regard. I know I will ” see ” 2 steps ahead of him without even thinking about it, and when his lunch comes, my face will not be there. Lol.

    Any man can change, imo, if only he will do whatever is necessary to change his mind. I think it’s really just that simple.

    Build and sharpen your instincts .

  15. @Sentient

    The manosphere has been helpful as has this blog.

    What is unhelpful is the advice posted by other posters is often uneven.

    I can’t count the number of times I’ve read words to the effect: “you fucked up if you didn’t bang her…”

    Do some of these posters ever meet women in the real world?

    My game has been solid and I’ve been blown out.

    My game has been sloppy and I’ve banged 8s.

    Point is I’m constantly gaming.

    Too easily newbies read the wrong shit and never improve. Nothing equals the Mystery Method as a primer…

  16. Wala

    Dilly dilly… To thine self be true.

    Blax

    “when his lunch comes”??? You have a stroke brah?

  17. @ wala

    That’s because we often get a mashup between red pill, Game and pua.

    Game is all encompassing and not solely about going out and finding a chick to have sex with in 60 minutes or less. That’s a standard pua message…. But they ” teach ” it as Game, so it causes mixed messages and confusion.

    So they way some guys interpret these things will seem at odds. Red pill can inform Game and even pua, but as the ” fuck any girl because that’s all that matters ” model goes, that can’t inform anything outside of itself. It’s standalone.

    Watch as some pua instructors attempt to incorporate red pill into their for profit instruction. The two premium and water in many respects, so the confusion is sure to grow.

  18. Again, above should read ” the two are oil and water… “.

    The FI inserted ” premium “

  19. There’s no money to be made when a young man is collected. Seeing the larger picture and relaxing about what’s out there, while out there is half the battle.

    That attitude obviates a lot of extra steps to life, love and self acceptance.

  20. The day I relaxed with my Id is the day I became very good at once stressful personal, professional situations. My instincts knew it’d be o.k. and gained clarity how to move in a self benefitting manner.

    The other aspects are influenced by our environment, often not in our interests.

    Here’s a first result pic describing the Id I happened to find:

    Quite biased, no?

    There’s much to be gained listening to your gut. All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego.

  21. Ehintellect

    All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego.

    Same…

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule

  22. …… and the Blue Pill teaches the rational brain to tune the guitar WRONG, play the wrong notes, at the wrong time and out of tune, with the wrong pitch, and stay out of step with the other instrument and never learn to read the music correctly.

  23. “There’s a common refrain from equalists today that presumes we’ve “evolved beyond” our base instincts (if they acknowledge them at all). From moralists we’ve always been ‘higher minded’ and above our instincts, that is if we accept some ideological ‘truth’.”

    This is why The New Modern Man https://relampagofurioso.com is correct when he recognizes and tries to explain that feminism is a continuation of puritanical repression rather than a reaction to it.

  24. I like how Rollo can always link back to previous articles because this information is timeless even if it were written years ago. I click on the links and read articles even if I’ve read them before just to see how much I have absorbed.

  25. Freud was actually a brain-cutter. It was only on failing to “find the lesion” that he dreamed up psychodynamic theory.

    Intellect slices things up with straight lines in an endeavor to make sense of the world – but those slices are not real. There are no actual lines of latitude and longitude on the earth. In a similar manner the world of thought is sliced into arbitrary pieces, to better examine each piece in hopes of understanding. A useful method, but also not real. And language is a further necessary abstraction – also limited, also not “real.” The word is but black specks on a page; meaning is attributed in the mind of the reader – and this may vary, reader to reader.

    So the task is to not get stuck on what we think we know. To “get” Rollo in this piece requires, I think, forgetting a lot of what we think we know and reading with a fresh look. Prior learning can interfere with current learning (“negative interference ” in the lexicon).

    An interesting aside useful for your golf game (or any other physical learning) – the areas of the brain activated when learning a task, and subsequently when the task has been learned, are different. In the learning state, areas of reason/thought, sequencing, memory are activated. When a learned task is repeated, areas of the brain that have to do with coordination, location in space are activated, areas farther aft. This is why we can drive a car in heavy traffic and easily think about other things (the task has become automatic) – but couldn’t when learning.

    It takes roughly four hours for this “consolidation.” So if learning two similar golf swings, for example, practice the first and – ideally – allow at least four hours before learning the second.

  26. @EH: “Quite biased, no?”

    Yes, it is biased.

    They want you to always act from the Superego so that become a sacrificial lamb for the benefit of others.

    “All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego.” – Basically 90% of my life.

    @Sentient:

    “Superego = Beta/Golden Rule

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule”

    Perfect description.

  27. @ incubus rising

    Are you sure that 90% number is legit? That sounds like an exaggeration. Is that your FI fueled superego beating up on you again to keep you away from your confident, self-preservation id?

    I’m used to guys beating up on themselves…even long after they’ve learned RP. The words reflect not you or RP but something else.

    When a 30 year old guy says 90% of his life was messed up…he’s saying 27 years of his life were failures.

    I call bullshit. 90% of your life isn’t a failure but you wrote that to remind you of the emotional comfort pillow you’ve learned to live with so long. Guilt, regret, anger are buffers guys use to remain static. I’m not a PoPT guy but anyways….

    Later.

  28. “All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego.

    Same…

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule”

    Eh, Sentient – I’m still checking in here from time to time. I don’t really wan to argue (but maybe instead – discuss). I would like to point out that what you said there does not marry-up at all with the stoic mindset:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics

    From the 2nd article:

    “A virtue is generally agreed to be a character trait, such as a habitual action or settled sentiment.[2] Specifically, a virtue is a positive trait that makes its possessor a good human being. A virtue is thus to be distinguished from single actions or feelings. Rosalind Hursthouse says:

    A virtue such as honesty or generosity is not just a tendency to do what is honest or generous, nor is it to be helpfully specified as a “desirable” or “morally valuable” character trait. It is, indeed a character trait—that is, a disposition which is well entrenched in its possessor, something that, as we say “goes all the way down”, unlike a habit such as being a tea-drinker—but the disposition in question, far from being a single track disposition to do honest actions, or even honest actions for certain reasons, is multi-track. It is concerned with many other actions as well, with emotions and emotional reactions, choices, values, desires, perceptions, attitudes, interests, expectations and sensibilities. To possess a virtue is to be a certain sort of person with a certain complex mindset. (Hence the extreme recklessness of attributing a virtue on the basis of a single action.)”

    The rest of the ‘Key Concepts’ section of the 2nd article is also to point. This is the kind of thing I mean by the phrase I have been using here – ‘masculine principles’.

    So … Sentient, … I do appreciate your insights on many things, …… but at a deeper level with respect to some of your comments, … deeper level that you do let seep out from time to time (like today’s comment), I come away with the strong impression that you may see it something like this:

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule = bluepill mindset

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule = redpill mindset.

    I don’t see it that way. I think it is more likely that redpill is better seen as a tool, a knowledge base about human nature, especially when it comes to the psychic underpinnings of gender differences, and that, by way of that knowledge base, redpill counsels that we should very much be cognizant of what could be called the Id function (which to me is better described as the ‘drive for self-preservation’, an absolute necessity and vital prerequisite for each and every individualized lifeform), so that this knowledge about ‘what is what’ can be properly incorporated into the larger human context, which Freud, in his overly limiting thesis, describes as the three parts – Id, Ego, Superego (or Instincts, Reality and Morality – as Eh pointed out above, as a common point of view in our culture). So …. by way of the redpill/bluepill differentiation, bluepill mindset would therefore be about FAILING to very much be cognizant of what could be called the Id function (which to me is better described as the ‘drive for self-preservation’, an absolute necessity and vital prerequisite for each an every individualized lifeform). Someone like Jordan Peterson counsels for this work of becoming cognizant (which I would rather frame as ‘working out one’s masculine principles’ in a way that harkens the stoic and western virtue mindsets as described in the links above), but JP puts it more in terms of integrating one’s shadow, psyche-wise, …. a Jungian way of putting it …… and there probably is some room for criticism by way of putting it JP’s way …. but I mention his viewpoint on this so as to hopefully better impart my intended meaning here.

    Now – Sentient and Eh both …… more pragmatically now, given what I said above, how can what I said be integrated with the very real realization that – ‘All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego’. I too have grossly blundered in that way ….. if the individual in question is not afflicted with psychopathy ….. that is gonna happen regularly (but hopefully less so as one ages and hopefully becomes more wise). But maybe a more accurate way of looking at it is – thank God you are not so much grossly blundering by way of – ‘All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my Id’ … more-so the psychopathic type of blundering. Perhaps the sentiment of – ‘All my greatest failures resulted from acting on my superego’ is better said as ….. ‘All my greatest failures resulted from acting out of a mindset whereby Id/Superego were not fully enough integrated in the Reality function, – the Ego function’. Bluepill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as – ‘overemphasizing the Superego function at the expense of the Id function’. Redpill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as ….. ‘a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’. Psychopathy outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as – ‘overemphasizing the Id function at the expense of the Superego function’.

    Seen this way, stoicism and western virtue, as described above are not bluepill. Because the following description would therefore be false:

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule = bluepill mindset

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule = redpill mindset.

    Stoicism and western virtue as described by way of the links above, obviously requires the integration I am pointing out here (integration of the ‘drive for self-preservation’ function, with the ‘social conscience’ function).

  29. Incubus Rising

    Saw this earlier… Taking a non typical airline so i am in the long security line. Like 40 minutes…. Winding all around. Attractive late 30s mom behind me with a 4yo and her clran cut beta appearing husband. Their flight is boarding. The woman is stressed. The dude is stressed and anxious. She keeps saying to him ro do something. Cut the line. Act. He is frozen in anxiety. Just shifting around.

    I banter a bit with her. After 15 minutes we are at a section where they can duck under the barrier, from here on It’s all doubled up. This spot is screened by a large column and me. Duckinh here is going to save them at least 15 minutes they will go right to the attendant.

    I tell her here is your chance. Duck here and go. I’ll screen you. She confers with hubby, telling him to do it… He is frozen yet. I tell him go. Go now. He finally acts. But ducks under clumsily in a way to call attention from the attendant. So when they get up there she tells them they need to go back or ask all the people if it is ok.

    Finally our man steps up and addresses the snaking line… So we all wave him on. They go through, flight made.

    Think about this reaction ehen confronted by saber tooth tigers or warriors or getting a lifeboat on the Titanic.

    Some act on self interest. Some are frozen, defer.

  30. Wildman,

    Can’t bear reading into your comment. What you define as intelligent writing is overwrought blather that serves as a buffer from getting better.

    Communication is pointless if I’ve no idea what you’re taliing about, Dumb it down to a sentence and question and I’ll take a stab.

  31. Eh – do you think that this is a good way of framing what the bluepill/redpill discussion is about, at root, as discussed here (a framing that I disagree with)?:

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule = bluepill mindset

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule = redpill mindset

    If not, how would you succinctly frame it then?

  32. Eh – so do you think, that a sense of fairness, which is the basis of ethics (The Superego function), is for the birds, and should be eviscerated from one’s modes of thinking/feeling – so as to lead to a better life for oneself? If so – 2nd question – well what if everybody thought that and acted upon that sentiment accordingly?

  33. “Attractive late 30s mom behind me with a 4yo”

    and there’s the problem right there. pregnant at 34. great if they already got 10 kids. I’m guessing she didn’t.

    “I tell her here is your chance. Duck here and go. I’ll screen you. She confers with hubby, telling him to do it… He is frozen yet. I tell him go. Go now. He finally acts. But ducks under clumsily in a way to call attention from the attendant. So when they get up there she tells them they need to go back or ask all the people if it is ok.”

    in the near future, families will be able to rent real men by the hour when they need a leader.

    when i was a kid i used to always buy lawn seats for concerts and then just enter the pavilion

    girls: “but the security guard will check our stub”

    me: “nope. just dance right by. he ain’t doing shit”

    it’s like that study where they found that people will jaywalk if they see a guy in a suit do it first. they won’t do it if a bum does it, but they will if a suit jerk does. why? I thought it was the suit. now I think it’s because the guy in the suit probably has some place to be by some time and is therefore moving pretty well and looks like he has a purpose and knows what he’s doing. the bum, not so much.

    move with a purpose and nobody ever questions you. shit, they’ll even follow you for no other reason than they need to follow somebody

  34. Wild man

    “well what if everybody thought that and acted upon that sentiment accordingly”

    See all of unrecorded history, most of recorded.

  35. People who jaywalk are less likely to be struck too.

    “Motorists need the stressors and tension coming from the feeling of danger to feed their attention and risk controls, rather than some external regulator—fewer pedestrians die jaywalking than using regulated crossings. Some libertarians use the example of Drachten, a town in the Netherlands, in which a dream experiment was conducted. All street signs were removed. The deregulation led to an increase in safety…”

  36. Sentient – see, you are a good guy, an alpha guy in the way your behave (by way of some of the stories you tell). Alpha like a man that has developed masculine principles because he has adopted redpill as a tool – ‘Redpill as a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’.

    Evidence for that:

    “I tell her here is your chance. Duck here and go. I’ll screen you. She confers with hubby, telling him to do it… He is frozen yet. I tell him go. Go now. He finally acts. But ducks under clumsily in a way to call attention from the attendant. So when they get up there she tells them they need to go back or ask all the people if it is ok. Finally our man steps up and addresses the snaking line… So we all wave him on. They go through, flight made.”

    You arranged that whole thing ….. helping the couple, then helping the man, then helping the whole group collectively say ‘yeah it is OK, you are in a bad way ….. happens to all of us sometimes, we got your back….. we are all gonna agree to help you out.’ People around you noticed that you were trying to help and liked that.

    Sentient you did all that because you are Alpha, in the way I describe. See? You did the whole thing in such a way that is going to make it much easier for this guy to take action next time, in these types of events. Because you gave him the roadmap …… cognizant of his need, his family’s need, the social ethics ….. which sometimes are codified to rigidly as social rules (don’t cut lines) ….. but the social conscience as well – ask, in the right way (with awareness of this whole varying list of needs/perspectives), and you may receive.

  37. “See all of unrecorded history, most of recorded”

    Sentient you are insinuating that history bears out that the unmitigated expression of selfish interest, psychopathy-style, is the norm. Simply not true. Though ‘selfish interest’ is a big part of the story – history-wise, of course it’s not the whole story. How did the western ethics as analyzed by the Greeks, as I linked above, come into being then?

  38. Eh – you disagree with the options, with respect to the potential psychic and social consequences I gave, further to trying to tease out better definitions around bluepill/redpill differentiation, further to your agreement that the root of that differentiation is like this (a framing which I disagree with):

    Superego = Beta/Golden Rule = bluepill mindset

    Id = Alpha/Platinum Rule = redpill mindset

    OK – so provide your own options then, as to the probable psychic and social consequences of framing bluepill/redpill, like that, (succinct).

  39. Widman,,

    You lack imagination and thus must live in the matrix to survive.

    What RP tells you falls on uncomprehending ears as the RP reference experience is different than yours.

    I don’t care to plug back in. I find RP simple, efficient and self evident. You apperently don’t.

    What BP types find simpler and more obvious, the less equipped they are to figure it out by their complicated methods.

    Those overwrought methods, your epic rambling posts for example, torture reality into a grotesque appearance of logic and sensibility.

  40. @Wild Man
    I do think you have oversimplified the Blue Pill conundrum that most men beyond this blog are facing unawares. While I wouldn’t call it a childish argument, I would call it naive. You discuss this here and in most of your previous posts as if this is all just inside our own heads, and if only we would “integrate” everything as it “truly” is, we would all be fine.

    That line of reasoning severely underestimates the intentional control and damage being done to men by those supporting the FI, even if the perpetrators also misunderstand the basic instinctual nature of humanity as described by Rollo and RP praexology.

    We are at war with the FI and its supporters. Your words have the potential to misdirect others who come by here honestly with the intention to improve themselves down a rabbit hole that will only serve to confuse them further. When you comment in this manner, you are actively at odds with what Rollo is trying to achieve in posting his well-reasoned essays and facilitating dialog among us.

  41. The alternatives are BP and RP.

    Anything away from pure RP is by degree more BP.

    Adding BP into a RP human evolutionary biology is evil as it renders man’s intentions, mind and actions less free.

    RP is not amoral. Contrary, it is the only moral option.

  42. “Neg!??? Why!??”

    because neg is the natural instinct of boy to girl.

    it’s only once them titties start to pop that shit goes upside down

    girls never grow out of their instinctual world. the world where the rule is:

    boys who call you names and hit you like you and it’s okay to like them back

  43. “One of the questions I’m always asked by guys is, how do I know when a woman is in whichever phase of her ovulation?”

    ovulation window: shit test level – high. dominance required. her pussy feels more structured. lube is different and there is less of it. she won’t like how it tastes on you dick. she’ll just want it from behind. won’t look back. won’t want to orgasm. won’t want to fuck super long. while she may dress sexiest during ovulation, she won’t always feel sexiest. the fuck will be more business than play. just fill it and move on.

  44. Eh – your comment – “RP is not amoral. Contrary, it is the only moral option.”

    Eh – something we can agree on then – good. I agree because:

    “Redpill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as ….. ‘a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’. ”

    Eh – your other comment:

    “Adding BP into a RP human evolutionary biology is evil as it renders man’s intentions, mind and actions less free.”

    I wouldn’t put it quite that way, but yes – more or less I agree. I agree because:

    “Bluepill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as – ‘overemphasizing the Superego function at the expense of the Id function’.”

    And:

    “So …. by way of the redpill/bluepill differentiation, bluepill mindset would therefore be about FAILING to very much be cognizant of what could be called the Id function (which to me is better described as the ‘drive for self-preservation’, an absolute necessity and vital prerequisite for each an every individualized lifeform)”

    Now – if you would go on to also agree that:

    “Psychopathy outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as – ‘overemphasizing the Id function at the expense of the Superego function’.”

    ….. then, in effect we would be agreeing on all the important differentiations with respect to bluepill/redpill/psychopathy, at least is summary form.

  45. @Sentient: “Some act on self interest. Some are frozen, defer.”

    Agreed 100%.

    @ EH: “90% of your life isn’t a failure but you wrote that to remind you of the emotional comfort pillow you’ve learned to live with so long. Guilt, regret, anger are buffers guys use to remain static.”

    I am not making excuses for my failures. And yes, I agree with everything you have said.

    Acting under the influence of the Superego has cost me a lot. For the first 35 years of my life I suppressed my “ID” due to societal influence and social / cultural programming. I believed “ID” is evil, “Superego” is good …. as it is very well depicted in the pic you posted above.

    When I came to this blog 2 years ago, I only used to read the OPs and didn’t venture into the comments section. I thought I was thoroughly Red Pilled. But a year ago, I read the comments on this blog for the first time in the post “Utility of Beta Men – Part 1”.

    https://therationalmale.com/2017/05/31/the-utility-of-beta-men-part-i/

    I went into sparring with Blax, Sentient and SFC Ton about our moral responsibilities towards fellow men. But thinking about what these guys were saying made me realise that they were right and I still had a lot of buffers in my sub conscience. These guys had their “Mental Point Origin” anchored in their “ID” and I had mine is the “Superego”.

    That was year ago and I have gained immensely by reading all the comments of OMGs on every post.

    I see the same scenario repeating again here between Wild Man (Superego) Vs Eh and Sentient (ID).

    Wild Man, don’t discard what these guys are saying. Try to see things from their perspective. Your “Superego” will not let you think objectively, but you have to make the effort. See you on the dark side.

  46. marelius – your comment:

    “You discuss this here and in most of your previous posts as if this is all just inside our own heads, and if only we would “integrate” everything as it “truly” is, we would all be fine.”

    The thing is, as a lifeform that is individualized whom also are in possession of abstract cognitive abilities, ….. the reality is inside our own heads. Yet nevertheless, we can extract meaning from the environment, including the social environment. And then …… as well, we have the ability to communicate, to share these personalized insights. As such, nexus points of social feedback abound, and a variety of consensuses (and social disagreements) will be formed.

    Your further comment: – “That line of reasoning severely underestimates the intentional control and damage being done to men by those supporting the FI, even if the perpetrators also misunderstand the basic instinctual nature of humanity as described by Rollo and RP praexology.”

    No, the FI, I would say, is borne of social disagreements (not consensus). So who are the groups that are being disagreeable? – that’s what you gotta look at (and to be clear it is those that uphold false beliefs that in turn uphold this false description of reality that informs the FI). And we also have to look at what is inside their own heads, among such groups, that is not properly integrated and therefore not “truly” reflecting the human reality. See? – This is more than just about the FI itself.

    You last comment: – “We are at war with the FI and its supporters. Your words have the potential to misdirect others who come by here honestly with the intention to improve themselves down a rabbit hole that will only serve to confuse them further. When you comment in this manner, you are actively at odds with what Rollo is trying to achieve in posting his well-reasoned essays and facilitating dialog among us.”

    Better said – we are at war with the prognosticators of the FI, who prognosticate as such, because of the falsehoods that are inside their own heads, and then those falsehoods are reinforced by way of social feedback loops that are not consensuses, but actually social disagreements. This is, more precisely – gaslighting writ large. Now who dat be that gaslights this way? Also – maybe it’s best to let Rollo speak for himself.

  47. Incubus_Rising:

    It’s not that Id is evil and Superego is good, or vise versa for that matter. If either is overly emphasized, the capacity for what some would call ‘evil’ outcomes is exponentialized. That is one thing I can agree with Jordan Peterson on – that is the main part of his thesis – that either over-emphasis will cause downstream consequences that truly are horrible for everybody involved.

    What I am calling for (as is JP, but using different language but same in spirit I think), is

    “Redpill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as ….. ‘a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’. ”

    What I am calling for is the development of a ‘balanced character’. This is not easy to accomplish. It is about striving, questioning, and alot of trial and error, and a lot of self-awareness, and alot of trying to understand others perspectives.. That is what men do though.

  48. @Wildman

    https://therationalmale.com/2018/04/23/the-instinctual-process

    “These innate gender differences in instinct are a very difficult aspect of human nature for both egalitarian equalists and traditional moralists to accept. Equalists chomp at the bit with respect to their ego-investments in blank-slate idealism. Even the idea of a gendered difference in human nature, much less a human “nature” at all (a concept most deny) conflicts with the social constructivism that forms most of their ideology. Moralists tend to think that acknowledging (much less embracing) our instinctual selves is endorsing the worst of it, or it’s some kind of license to shirk the personal responsibilities for it. And, for both equalist and moralist, accepting our instinctual natures seems deterministic in a way that conflicts with their sense of existential control.”

    The instinct has been conditioned out of the modern male to the point that when it surfaces he doesn’t recognize it for what it is and has even less self control.

  49. Wonder if Mark Minassian was a commenter or lurker here? Angry betas are prone to take out there feckless rage on innocents. I wonder, does The Red Pill help or hurt? Were they better off when they just thought they weren’t good enough?

    Now that they’ve become victims, well. who knows where this will go? For those of you not keeping up on the story, Minassian was an incel and fan of Eliott Rogers. While it’s still being sorted out, I think this is going to be pretty ugly.

    Apparently he was a frequent visitor to http://www.incels.me

    lmfao. Here, I did a search on Minassian at that site, and all the little manchildren there are already all over it. What a sick little subculture this is.
    https://incels.me/search/61229/?q=Minassian&o=date

    Perhaps they’ll all just commit mass suicide instead of whinging nonstop and then occasionally shooting people who’ve done nothing to them.

    Incels. Fuck every last one of them.

  50. @ incubus

    “I am not making excuses for my failures.”

    Nice comment and nice progress too.

    A life isn’t a sum of our success and failures…that’s a BP myth. Success and failure are differently defined by BP and RP too.

    In a BP world, and you fail at BP ideals, are you a failure? Yes, if your reference is BP. See?

    IMO surviving years of BP and coming out the other side IS success. Soooo, IMO, Incubus_rising….congratulations is in order. You avoided zero out by incel homicide/suicide or lifelong BP frustration.

    You don’t know the disaster you’ve avoided by going RP. Look around at those that are still in it or didn’t make it out alive.

    Who you are today is all on you and a feather in your hat.

    What did you do today to celebrate your kickass life? I usually raise a glass daily….but you do you.

  51. Even better link…https://incels.me/threads/toronto-attacker-confirmed-incel.38647/#post-676952

    Look at these sick little turds. Cheering him on. Congratulating him for killing strangers. These little pricks may need euthanasia.

    Hint: This in part is why I hector you guys guts to not get sucked into larping here. Once you internalize Red Pill truths and game, it’s so easy to make yacking about it and watching and reading endless content on it – without much growth or change.

    Take these incels. Anyone of them could learn game, stop being a pussy 24/7 and get laid. Simply do Mystery Method (you can get the course for free as a torrent) and then apply it, and you are good to go. Even the most pathetic incel can turn it around in two years or less of sustained effort.

    But nope. Effort is too much to ask. They’d rather whine. Which is why they don’t get laid in the first place. Sometimes I think the RP world just makes such folks too comfortable.

  52. “balanced character”

    LMFAO. Asystole is balanced, you idiot.

    An ounce of dog shit in a gallon of ice cream tastes more like dog shit than ice cream.

    Nice try…Wildman looks to neutralize himself.

    BTW…bullshit name…try Blandman.

  53. Why attack the incels?

    They are products of our anabolized FI culture…and nowadays less fringe so…they have their own followers.

    That guy had quite the kill ratio. He’s no Muhammad Atta, another incel, but it was lopsided team incel..

  54. “Wonder if Mark Minassian was a commenter or lurker here?”

    Nah TRM is about taking responsibility for our condition, you can identify the problem then rant and rave or learn game and move on with life.

    Like a dead guy doesn’t feel any pain it’s everyone else that suffers.
    “Angry betas are prone to take out there feckless rage on innocents.”

    “I wonder, does The Red Pill help or hurt? Were they better off when they just thought they weren’t good enough?”

    They haven’t read here and couldn’t begin to comprehend if they did. These types aren’t looking for answers they are looking for somebody to blame while they wallow in their own shit.

  55. @Fleezer wrote:
    “move with a purpose and nobody ever questions you. shit, they’ll even follow you for no other reason than they need to follow somebody”

    I had a conference call earlier this morning with some developers who were confusing themselves about some really simple stuff. The guy newest to the company (hired 6 months ago) was asking about changing a link on all the company websites. He didn’t know what to do. It was such ridiculously simple thing to decide (in my mind) but he thought there should be a call, then wrangle over the options “communicating.”

    I told him to just go ahead and do what he thought was best.
    “But are you sure we don’t need permission?”
    Me: Hell no, just get it done and if someone doesn’t like it change it later.”
    Him: “Don’t we need to ask our boss?”
    Me: This doesn’t need to be a committee, that’s a waste of time. Always do what you think is right and ask for forgiveness later.”

    I rarely ever “ask for forgiveness later.” If you’re remotely competent and can make decisions it’s often not that hard to lead.

  56. boulderhead – your comment:

    “The instinct has been conditioned out of the modern male to the point that when it surfaces he doesn’t recognize it for what it is and has even less self control.”

    Yes – I agree (though I don’t think I wouldn’t call it ‘instinct’, but no need to argue over terminology now). Now – you glean that sentiment from Rollo’s quoted passage. I don’t agree with Rollo’s quoted passage though, but agree with your conclusion nevertheless. Why the two viewpoints leading to the same conclusion? Rollo is still using “egalitarian equalists” and “traditional moralists” to insinuate kinship with the idea of “blank-slate idealism”, which is one of the hallmark tells of – ‘equalist as in promises of equal outcomes for all’. But egalitarian in no way means that. And if ‘traditional moralist’ is meant to point to, or at least include, the precepts of western culture complete with it’s celebration of virtue, then that would be akin to Rollo denouncing the stoicism and western virtue ethic that I linked above. Now I’m not sure what to make of this difference of opinion (if it even is one). Rollo would have to weigh in on this and maybe provide his thoughts as to whether this idea is worthy:

    ““Redpill outlook perhaps can therefore be seen as ….. ‘a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’. ”

    If Rollo disagrees that that is a worthy perspective, then perhaps one might start to conclude that Rollo actually does mean to demean the original meaning of ‘egalitarian => merit-system’, and to demean stoicism and the western virtue ethic. But this is all just speculation without Rollo weighing in. All I can say is that I disagree with the passage of Rollo’s that you quoted. For instance, Rollo concluded in that passage:

    “Moralists tend to think that acknowledging (much less embracing) our instinctual selves is endorsing the worst of it, or it’s some kind of license to shirk the personal responsibilities for it. And, for both equalist and moralist, accepting our instinctual natures seems deterministic in a way that conflicts with their sense of existential control.”

    That is not accurate though. The stoic moralist of western virtue ethic calls for an acknowledgment of our ‘instinctual’ selves, and should not be put in the same bed as the ‘equalist’. Furthermore the moralist of western virtue ethic believes accepting the facts around our ‘instinctual’ natures allows for more self-agency, less determinism, and actually provides for more existential control.

  57. Farther and Son
    https://bit.ly/2qXFiEo
    If everything from the past was a process to get to the present moment. Someitmes while walking i get to thinking that in the process itself we find the Journey the reward. If you get everything you want without escaping into fantasy. You may have internilized Game to a point in which life is manageble because you live and experience it for what it is and what you turn it into with effort work and the embodyment of your performance as your personality. With the current event’s unfolding. I wonder if males for the past would have been ruthless with how the community respond’s to that demonstration of behavior? Aren’t their any places left in mordern times that add benefit to the male struggle of rejection and suffering? Is it ever so late to get to a state of repentence for a religious since? Sometimes i wonder about what i feed into especially behavior that is weak and dosnt reflect the life and being i aim for. I fall sort of this every moment for it appears as if in these moment’s i am lefting myself passed where i was. Staying with myself in transition from one stage of life into another. Yet i worry that going about it alone and being my own MPO or just my own reference point from where i was last in the stages of self relfection cause’s me to over look the people around me that could use help and some humor. Not one end of being Selfish and the other being selfless but the burden of perdormance enhancing the lifes around you.
    https://bit.ly/2HpvtGh
    Suppose the only truth in all of this is how to lead by example and see how that works out for you in the real world under the view of exposure and transperancy.

  58. Eh – the development of balance character, from a shallow viewpoint might look like neutralizing oneself, because in some ways it is, because it calls for impulse control, and so if you mean controlling one’s impulses is neutralizing, then from that shallow way of looking a things, then – yes. But from deeper perspective the development of a balanced character is not neutralizing – because instead it means taking control of your own impulses, instead of unconsciously accepting the outside conditioning of those impulses, unexamined.

    Eh – funny enough – I first started posting as ‘Average Man’ at another site before coming here, but found out by way of responses that I am not average. What occurred to me by way of those comments directed my way was that I am apparently not average with respect to unconsciously accepting the outside conditioning upon these natural impulses (either way actually – moralistically-wise, or selfishness-wise), unexamined. I found that revelation fascinating – people are generally more self-unaware than I had assumed (now I know you are gonna say this is buffering or glossing or something on my part – whatever). But I have always been this way. Always. From earliest memories. I have ego-typical memories from 11 months of age (though these are singular memory events). I guess domestication of one sort or another never took with me. As such Wild Man.

  59. boulderhead – your comment:

    “Well what wouldn’t you call it (‘instinct’) then?”

    Id function (which to me is better described as the ‘drive for self-preservation’, an absolute necessity and vital prerequisite for each and every individualized lifeform).

  60. @ Rugby

    “Someitmes while walking i get to thinking that in the process itself we find the Journey the reward.”

    The best thing you’ve written in awhile.

  61. Wild Man

    “Sentient – see, you are a good guy, an alpha guy in the way your behave (by way of some of the stories you tell). Alpha like a man that has developed masculine principles because he has adopted redpill as a tool – ‘Redpill as a prescription for integrating the Id/Superego functions with the Reality function – the Ego function’.”

    My motive was to subtly AMOG the guy and demonstrate my value to the woman…

    “You arranged that whole thing ….. helping the couple, then helping the man, then helping the whole group collectively say ‘yeah it is OK, you are in a bad way ….. happens to all of us sometimes, we got your back….. we are all gonna agree to help you out.’ People around you noticed that you were trying to help and liked that.”

    Had time and fortune been different, I would have helped her by banging her and maybe helped him by waking him up to the possibility his wife needs more from him. Why? Did I mention she was attractive… and sending out a signal. Her frustration was palpable…

    On the Plains of Ur it might have reduced down to a simple rock to the head. He may yet get that feeling if he isn’t careful.

    Sidenote – attractive women with 3 to 5 year olds only children seem especially vulnerable. My theory is they lost the babyweight, feel attractive again, are paired with a guy who has been so beaten down over the whole having a kid thing AND he hasn’t knocked her back up.

  62. “My motive was to subtly AMOG the guy and demonstrate my value to the woman…”

    Nah – the circumstance wasn’t right for that. You gave value anyways. You ended up giving value to the hubby in question too, and gave him some space to reconcile the situation in a way that suited him. Good for you. If the emphasis was on AMOGing, you wouldn’t have left hubby with that leverage.

  63. More accurately I meant to day – If the emphasis was on AMOGing in the way you say, you wouldn’t have left hubby with that leverage, but you AMOGed nevertheless, according to my description of Alpha. Sentient – one always has to watch the behavior more-so than what people say. Behavior provides so many tells that are very hard to obfuscate.

  64. “Your eyes won’t let you see.”

    Well, if I actually knew you, hung with you for awhile, got to observe your behavior for awhile, I would see just fine. So …… failing that – what we are left with – is we both got words, and we really can’t be sure whose behavior is more in keeping with their words. So I guess it’s agree to disagree then.

    Why do you want to bang a woman with a kid and a hubby in that circumstance though? My inclination would be tell her to shut the fuck up, quit dissing her man, insinuate they were probably late because of her — tell her to take some fucking responsibility. But nevertheless, the man does have to accept the burden as you say, and step up. So it’s both. Glad you helped the guy step up. If I would have seen that I would think – OK – that was the right thing for the Sentient character to do. I probably would have done same after berating the woman. That overly emotional shite get’s old fast. If we really all want to do something about the FI, well – do your part then. Don’t let women off the hook with their bad behavior.

  65. “Why do you want to bang a woman with a kid and a hubby in that circumstance though?”

    What does the kids and hubby have to do with anything?

  66. Fleezer’s “Move with a purpose” — such an important reminder. Rollo could just post those four words sometime and take the rest of the week off.

    People (especially women) are just dying to see someone with confidence take the reins in today’s typical paralysis-by-analysis situations. I lean more toward “Sit by the river and your enemy’s body will eventually float on by” and even I have enjoyed the powerful results of moving ahead like you know where you’re going.

    I would only add, make sure you keep your tone and expression mildly amused while flaunting all this confidence

  67. @Rugby

    “Yet i worry that going about it alone and being my own MPO or just my own reference point from where i was last in the stages of self relfection cause’s me to over look the people around me that could use help and some humor.”

    As a few of my friends remind me, put your oxygen mask on first and tend to yourself. Those around will benefit from your own masculine self-improvement. When you worrying less and feeling more energetic they will enjoy your charm and abundant energy and like the happy Rugby.

  68. Move With a Purpose also fits the Instinct theme, as predators might be less likely to attack a target exhibiting confidence and purpose.

  69. Meanwhile, has anyone else noticed the DirectTVNow ad where the chick is throwing all the guy’s stuff out the window? Can’t watch a hockey game without seeing this nasty little FI masterpiece 30 or 40 times.

  70. OBIT

    “Can’t watch a hockey game without seeing this nasty little FI masterpiece 30 or 40 times.”

    I just assume the guy was banging her sister.

  71. “What does the kids and hubby have to do with anything?”

    What? Everything is indirectly connected to everything else by way of a web of interconnections, and the nature of the direct connections colors the whole web, often in ways that are very hard to see, because very often the actual direct connections are not so obvious. Hey – if you are the hyper-rational type, then look at it this way: We are aware that multivariable conditions very much so color outcomes when just a small modicum of complexity is introduced into any system, but nevertheless we suck at multivariable analysis.

    Eh – some of the things you say – like about the invol incels for instance (hope that was only a joke) …. makes me start to wonder whether you believe you can exist in the singular … like just Id ……. just you, you, you. If that is the case – who are the rest of us then – to you? Phantoms?

  72. “I just assume the guy was banging her sister”

    Or he was hitting on someone at the airport

  73. O.B.I.T – “Can’t watch a hockey game without seeing this nasty little FI masterpiece 30 or 40 times.”

    Yeah – accepting BS from women is BS. This isn’t hard. The hard part is gonna be what the women are gonna haveta do after getting some pushback on the BS. They got helpers with respect to this FI shite, that don’t actually give one shit about western women, but like the FI machine, because it helps with a play into their own psychopathic agenda. The FI collective of western womankind (and come-on this is largely a western phenomenon – but is now impinging upon women wherever western culture impinges within non-western realms), is gonna probably get hysterical some, when they finally see what has been done to them – how they have been used, and how weak their own men have been acquiescing to this. Western men certainly should not be supporting this ‘what is being done to them’. We need to show some leadership already.

  74. Just to be serious about the ad for a moment, It takes the media’s usual comedic battle-of-the-sexes memes to a nasty new level. Watch her face at the end. You certainly would not see a role reversal of this ad, although it might be clever for their next one to show the bland-looking guy getting some mild bit of revenge.

    The point is not to be bothered by the ad but to see where it’s coming from

  75. “The point is not to be bothered by the ad but to see where it’s coming from”

    Agreed. What can one do about the ad anyway – complain publicly about it (away from a blogspot like this). That be weak because it won’t accomplish anything and will probably just make things worse. So … as you say …. see where it is coming from. Don’t accept that BS. There are powers that want to warp our culture and they are doing a fine job. If you want to stand up for what is right – that’s is the place to stand up.

  76. Wildman is a schozophrenic, unshaven, divorced, unemployed on disability, incel who visits his exwife under the spurious notion that he’s helping her out of a bad way but he’s actually looking to return to the only validating woman who’ll tolerate his disjointed ass as long as he works the grill and cleans up too but doesn’t make a move as once a beta, always a beta so he can leave afyer and find more phony validation at his mainline church which routinely preys on “broken souls” in attempt to perpetuate his willing beta servitude for their gain.

    Wildman: TRM’s village idiot.

  77. Eh – name-calling. Constant name-calling. The hallmark of an inferior man that cannot handle the give and take of direct rational confrontation but won’t admit his limitations (to be clear the refusal to know the limitations is the part that would be inferior and weak in this eventuality, not the limitation itself), ….. or the hallmark of a wounded man that can handle said confrontation, but refuses to so misdirects by striking out, so as avoid saying why.

    Eh – I hope you are the 2nd kind. I’d give you more slack with respect to my opinion of you, in that eventuality. Getting wounded happens to everybody one time or the other. I am going to choose to see you that way for the time being. You actually seem to be pretty smart.

  78. Rollo: found a trivial typo

    Art has always been something I’ve had an innate ability for. I have do doubt that many of our natural cognitive ‘gifts’ are in some way gene expressions.

    Looks to me that “do” should be “no”.

  79. “I’d give you more slack with respect to my opinion of you…”

    Oh would you please! I might burst into flames of joy!

    Fucktard.

  80. Eh – overlooking the name-calling, I did find one thing interesting in your comment. You said:

    “and find more phony validation at his mainline church which routinely preys on “broken souls” in attempt to perpetuate his willing beta servitude for their gain”

    In my convo with boulderhead here today, I also noticed this hi-light from Rollo’s article heading this thread (boulderhead hi-lighted this passage plus more):

    “Moralists tend to think that acknowledging (much less embracing) our instinctual selves is endorsing the worst of it, or it’s some kind of license to shirk the personal responsibilities for it”

    These two comments together got me to thinking. Mainline church (including Roman Catholicism) does tend to be moralist in the way Rollo is describing, and Eh – maybe you think I am ascribing to that when I am not. I should know about this moralistic flavor within mainline church because I take my Mom to church every Sunday for more than a year now, despite the fact that I’m not religious in that way, and really don’t get much out of it, except noticing how the moralistic double-speak works, or reminded of how it works because that is why I stopped going to church in the first place in my youth, ….. which I have already mentioned here in previous threads. But to my mind it is because the church (and pretty much all Christian denominations most probably) are institutionalized towards a false Judeo-Christian perspective. There is no such thing though (like Vox Day maintains – I agree with him on at least that). Christianity is actually a divorce of the Judaic. John’s gospel in particular makes that clear. This institutional Christianity is conflicted and therefore not really in support of the stoicism and western virtue ethic (as per the links I provided above), … what happened, I think, was these concepts, already apparent in the western culture, were analyzed and written about by the Greeks, ….. and the story of the Passion of Christ was a good narrative template to better explain these ideas, and so Christianity was adopted as a western idea in that way, but was poisoned almost right from the get go, and certainly by the time of Constantine, to be warped towards an inclusion of Judaic old testament ideas, which are actually antithetical to true Christianity, which is actually about true western virtue ethic (sort of a placeholder narrative template for those ideas – for larger appreciation among more people not so predisposed to philosophy, for instance).

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