The Goddess Movement

Six years ago I wrote a post outlining what the PUA community referred to then as “Chick Crack“. It was a pretty straight forward post that I delved into just to explain why playing to women’s propensity to believe in the spiritual – or what women would consider spiritual – is an effective technique in Game. I always thought it was funny how accurate this presumption about women was when I came across it.

Of all the strippers I’d ‘dated’ in the past every one subscribed to some form of non-mainstream spiritualism. This girl Angie I used to bang kept Tarot cards in her pink lady’s devotional Bible, another professed to be a psychic; in fact the only people I’ve ever known who self-seriously wanted me to believe they were in fact psychic were all women.

[…] For the stripper set this seems to be par for the course, but I wish I could say this chick-crack phenomenon was limited to just women who had some vacuous spiritual/emotional hole in their lives to fill. No, all women (yes I said all) are predisposed to the intrigue that metaphysical imaginings sparks in them. If it smacks of secret, covert knowledge, privy only to a chosen few, then you’ve got an attentive listener in a woman. UFOs, palm reading (always a classic), psychic premonition, ‘gifts of prophecy’, really anything that hints at knowledge beyond the ordinary is fair game. Chick Crack is not just limited to off-brand spiritualisms either, you’ll find that far more women than men will develop (conveniently) an affinity for, and are more invested in, religion than men.

In the wake of the Anthony Bourdain “suicide“, and the scramble to absolve Asia Argento of any complicity in his decision to hang himself, I came across this post about Asia’s penchant for Witchcraft. Apparently Wicca is somewhat more than a hobby for her. As you look at these pictures it’s important to remember that this is a 42 year old woman (and her friends) who sincerely believes in this stuff.

In Chick Crack I also made reference as to why I believe women’s being predisposed to beliefs in the supernatural is a desire for secret power from an innate position of female powerlessness.

Feminine Mythology

Women’s natural pull towards the mysterious and metaphysical has its roots in the sex’s historical characterizations. In keeping with the very useful associations of women’s unknowability and feminine mystique, it’s perhaps unsurprising that we find most mythologized representations of women and femininity cast as brooding, fickle, rapacious and often as a temptress, possessing secret knowledge that foolish men (the mere mortals) are neither capable of, nor encouraged to understand. Sometimes childlike, often conveniently eroticized, women are literally cast as forces of nature – whether sexualized nymphs or tempestuous witches, each characterization relies on women possessing some form of secret or forbidden connection to the metaphysical. Even the commanding presence of Joan of Arc, while leading the armies of France, had a connection to something otherworldly. By their very nature, feminine mythology, by default, presumes women are more in tune with the nature of reality, while surpassing the ignorance of brutish men.

Women revel in their mythology. Since covert forms of communication are the preferred language of women, their affinity for secret information is a natural fit. Ever wonder why gossip seems to be uniquely endemic to women? Look no further than women’s innate impulse to acquire secret knowledge. Take away the Vampires and Werewolves – the metaphysical component – from the Twilight series and what you’re left with is a relatively bland romance novel. Add the otherworldly and you have a runaway hit popular with every female age demographic, from tweens to octogenarians.

In women’s evolutionary past, concealment meant everything. Confusing a man as to the true genetic heritage of his children was often a matter of life or death. Pursuing pluralistic sexual strategies depends upon creating a characterization of women as legitimately unknowable, thus the feminine mystique is instituted. Ergo, the sociological PR campaign over the course of millennia has been to perpetuate the mystery of woman.

From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that physically weaker tribal women would seek some sort of mastery over the men in their lives who could punish or kill them and their offspring at will. As I’ve covered in many essays, women are biologically and psychologically more attuned to deeper communication and the emotive states of other people. Women have a far greater capacity to understand subcommunications and subcommunicate themselves among their own sex. This is borne out by multiple brain scan studies and research on the architecture of men and women’s brains.

To the blunt, overt, relatively nuance-less interpretive processes of men this subcommunication can be both frustrating and mysterious. It’s the mysterious part that women learned to reinforce and exploit in their dealings with men long ago. This is where we get the idea of the seductress or the ‘keeper of mysterious secrets’ archetype (witch, midwife, nature goddess) for women. It’s less important that women would actually be more in tune with the supernatural, but rather it’s more important that they believe it’s a general truth about all women. Men might be skeptical, or they may buy into that mystique, revere it and encourage other men to believe something similar. Usually how a man adopts or rejects that archetype is determined by his own self-understanding and his Game according to it and his sexual market value.

There are a lot of derivative character archetypes that stem from the basic ‘mysterious woman’ root. That might be anything from a healer, nurturer, mother type rooted in what used to be the mystery of women’s life-giving capacity, to the force of nature sorceress, to the eroticized sexual seductress (nymph, siren) or even the high-priestess of the holy temple of prostitution (an ancient brothel madame). Over the course of history, since our hunter-gatherer beginnings, this means to influence and power for women has coalesced into what we popularly imagine about women’s mysterious nature. Only today we call it a ‘woman’s intuition’ and we make appeals to fortune and fate when a guy get’s “lucky” and a woman favors him with her sexuality. It’s all socialized solutions to evolutionary problems, but if we add an element of ‘magic’ to the equation it makes explaining failures and appreciating successes that much easier.

Today, the belief in this nature is still very much reinforced in society. Thus, we get women subscribing to what amounts to a collective pathology – they are encouraged to believe in their ‘magical’ sensitivities to spirits and forces beyond the sensitivities of (ostensibly) “powerful” men. To fight the mythological Patriarchy women rely on a mythological tool. In Chick Crack I made mention of a stripper I used to have as a friend-with-benefits who was very attuned to the “spirit world”. As such the whole gamut of the supernatural was free game for her to use. She’d read my Tarot cards, my palm, throw in some eastern mysticism and wash it all down with a read through her pink ladies’ devotional Bible. Granted, ‘Angie‘ was an extreme case, but all women are in someway, or say they are in someway, privy to metaphysical understandings which men are not. And today we read and listen to male leaders in mainstream religions adopt and parrot back this “women are closer to God than men” mantra which is directly linked to the ‘spiritual women’ mystique.

The old trope of a Woman’s Intuition is an example of this belief in something beyond the ken of men. And this is also an important aspect of boys’ Blue Pill conditioning – girls/women possess some unearthly connection to God or something supernatural which further cements the idea that they should to defer authority to girls and women if they want to “please God the Goddess”. You might think this hard to believe in our age of technology, but only the context of the supernatural has shifted. Even the most objectively rational boys and men strongly believe in the ‘soul mate myth despite atheism or agnosticism. This belief of the faithless is directly related to the unknowability of the female. Even modern atheists have a tendency to fall prey to the “someone for everyone” religion when it comes to connecting with the opposite sex.

It’s my belief that this presumption of a greater sensitivity to the supernatural is an aspect of women’s evolved mental firmware. Regardless of how false it may be, a woman with the disposition to encourage men to believe that she has some otherworldly connection despite the world or circumstances around them, one that would lead men to venerate her in the long term, would’ve been a powerful social adaptation in ensuring her and her children’s security. No doubt women readers will trot out the reflexive “Well men have been shamans and soothsayers and the patriarchal leaders of churches too”, and this is true, but those men lacked the female elemental advantage in their believability. Even their own belief sets encompassed the ‘spiritual woman’ tropes for better or worse. The wise old wizard is definitely an archetype, but that wizard lacks the feminine mystique and the sexual components only women possess in exercising that power.

Modern Witchcraft

Today we see a distinct falling away from the old order of acknowledging the supernatural. Less and less people subscribe to religion in its conventional sense. The Millennial generation wants nothing to do with “organized religion”, yet they still seek the structure to life it used to provide. So instead we hear the compromise about being “spiritual, but not religious” as if accepting the possibility of the metaphysical is something expected, but the taint of the “religious” is left for older generations. Even in what passes for contemporary religion the influence of the Feminine Imperative is ever-present. The spiritual, the metaphysical, the religious, all are still useful tools for women to consolidate power with. As men abdicate more authority to the feminine, as they themselves are the products of a continuous social feminization, we see a wholesale handover of the spiritual to the direction of women. The male leadership of mainstream religions is itself compromised with the imperatives and priorities of women who are already presumed to be “more in tune with God or the supernatural”. As such they exercise the Feminine Imperative and assimilate women’s stake on the spiritual by being proxy agents for women’s authority.

Today I was linked a story about how Episcopalians have begun to Remove the Man from their religion. Apparently this marks the beginning of rewriting the doctrine of this religion by erasing all masculine pronouns for God. Of course I expect the predictable retorts that Episcopalians aren’t real Christians, but theirs is just one of the more glaring examples of how the feminization of religion progresses. The latent purpose is a wholesale removal of anything conventionally masculine from religion, and/or placing the feminine as the primary connection with the supernatural. Whether it’s mainstream religion or psychic reading, a woman is at the center of that mysticism. If you want a perspective into the things to come for a female-led mega-religion look no further than the teaching of Rev. Shannon Johnson Kershner (dual surname noted). God is not male is the clarion call of the priestesses (and their male ‘ally’ priests) of this new religion.

Why should we view God as female? Well, it’s so that little girls can become pastors, with Kershner saying, ““I wanted to make sure that little girls knew that God could call them to be pastors, too.”

For the MeToo / Time’s Up generation God is female, the supernatural is more aligned with the feminine. I’ve made this observation before (before the #MeToo moral panic arrived) but there’s been a growing push on the part of men to relinquish any spiritual authority from a masculine perspective for decades now. The largely secular impetus of the MeToo movement is now finding its way into a religious environment that has been primed and ready for it (largely due to its acquiescing, complicit, and thoroughly Blue Pill male leadership) for a long time. MeToo was a natural fit for a feminine-primary church that needed its push to consolidate power even in the most patriarchal of religions. MeToo has given women license to finally be overt in their design on religion and spirituality – not unlike Open Hypergamy has been embraced in the mainstream.

In celebration of this conversion of religion to feminine-primacy we get the feminist Beyoncé “worship” services in formerly traditional cathedrals. Millennials may be falling away from the old church, but they fill the new church to overflow-capacity when ‘god’ is female.

The take home message for this essay is this; womankind has been intimately aware of the complicity of men in granting them a default connection to the supernatural. While we may not profess a formal belief in such, men are eager to accommodate female power in this arena – especially if in doing so it endears women to the men who play along with it. Professing a belief in the supernatural is simply good Game. The early PUAs picked up on this and used it to their advantage. However, this abdication of moral authority – an authority founded in masculine pretenses – goes far beyond getting your palm read by an earthy stripper you want to bang. This compromising of moral authority to the feminine by men is just the next phase in conceding all social and political authority to the Feminine Imperative. If God or a ‘higher power’ is the foundation of moral authority, and women are universally presumed to be more in touch with that higher power, the next step is to cede that authority to the sex that has a more direct line to that power.

What prompted me to consider writing this essay was a link I was sent in response to the story about Asia Argento’s involvement in modern day Wicca. I listened to a bit of a podcast by Vox Day recently in which he was asked his thoughts about modern paganism. He said, and I paraphrase, “Paganism today is just kids LARPing to the idea of old world religions. They’re role playing something akin to Dungeons and Dragons with no real belief.” I thought this was interesting in light of the article I was sent on Neo-Paganism and the Feminist Spirituality Movement:

However, some women were not willing to identify themselves as “witches”, and there arose a form of Goddess worship without any of the trappings of witchcraft. As Nevill Drury explains, “Although some Goddess-worshippers continued to refer to themselves as witches, others abandoned the term altogether, preferring to regard their neopagan practice as a universal feminist religion, drawing on mythologies from many different ancient cultures.” This has been called “Goddess worship” and the “Goddess movement”. These terms are frequently used interchangeably with, but should be distinguished from, “feminist spirituality”, which includes the Goddess movement, but also feminist Christianity, feminist Judaism, etc.

[…]

The principal beliefs of the Goddess movement are that the Goddess is a radically immanent deity and she can be experienced directly. The Earth is seen as the body of the Goddess and women are understood to connect to the Goddess through their experience of their own bodies, as well as the “body” of the earth. Goddess feminists also believe that the Goddess is constantly changing, manifest in the changing of the seasons and the human life-cycle, and perpetually self-renewed.

The Goddess movement offers women a new self-image and facilitates women finding their own innate goodness and natural divinity. It enables women to redeem and revalue the “feminine principle” and offers them positive images and symbols of female empowerment.

It may seem easy to dismiss the influence of the feminine on what is re-evolving into a new feminine-world order of spirituality, but I think it would be foolish dismiss the influences of the Feminine Imperative – the Goddess Movement – that is manifesting itself incrementally in the power vacuum left by the abdication of masculine moral authority to the feminine. We read that Millennials may not be “as religious” as previous generations, but that doesn’t mean they don’t seek out ‘spiritual, but not religious’ metaphysical connections. They seek direction, and connection in religion, but they seek it in the secular, gynocentric terms they’ve been conditioned to believe they should define themselves by. A similar parallel exists on the masculine side too. One of the reasons for Jordan Peterson’s popularity is his ‘ministering’ to a generation of “lost boys” seeking direction in life. He is every bit one of the Lords of the New Church in the same way that the Goddess Movement speaks to another demographic of lost souls who seek absolution in the “divine feminine” – also a term Peterson is fond of.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

561 comments on “The Goddess Movement

  1. Distance swimmers look very different from sprinters. Ferry Weertmann (reigning Olympic swimming marathon champ) has a more equal hip/shoulder ratio than Michael Phelps, for example.

  2. Since we’re on the subject (and I do listen):
    What do you think of planks?
    Both the ones on the elbows, also on hands, and then alternating from elbows to hands (up and down)

  3. @Rollo,

    “Why is it impossible to mention JBP in any critical respect and have it not be a “swipe”? Questions fanbois need to consider.”

    Fascinating…

    I have been commentating here for years (not much of late, granted) and I think earned at least some respect as not being some shallow twit for said past commentary.

    However, I criticize the criticism (with some substance I venture, as I see no substantive rebuttal) of JBP here and suddenly I am a “fanboi” worthy of dismissal.

    What’s the opposite of a “fanboi”?

    A “Hate-bot”?

    As I wrote, Rollo, everyone is worthy of criticism, on the merits; you, me, JBP.

    However, there is a difference between honest criticism and whacking straw men of your own construction. It is the difference between finding actual flaws in someone arguments or reasoning and merely taking a “swipe” at them.

    Sorry, but to reiterate, from what I can see, your “divine feminine” reference in regards to Peterson has little or no substance, neither in how he uses it, or apparently in the claim that he is ‘fond’ of it. You appear to be parsing his words in order to take a whack at him which is the same thing Feminists do to the guy in order to ‘expose’ him.

    “So, Jordan, you think the Feminine is “Divine’ do you?”

    “So, what you are saying is women are Goddesses?”

    Rollo, you are a really intelligent guy, an incisive observer and a gifted writer. You can, and usually do, a much better job at cutting through the BS. My issue is you seem to be throwing some shade here when you are usually providing illumination.

    You are better than that. Call it your Burden of Past Performance.

    I was merely pointing out that despite your gifts, you are not perfect or divine. I am suggesting that you *might* be dropping the ball here a bit; that you might have some sort of splinter in your eye regarding JBP.

    All I am asking is you consider I may have a point.

    Sorry if that annoys you, but while I greatly admire you and your work, I am not your fanboi either. That means I will on occasion find something for which to take you to task.

    It also means when someone misrepresents you and your ideas, I will do the same to them.

    Peace.

  4. “Distance swimmers look very different from sprinters.”

    Athletes from the Island of Misfit Toys (those who fall in love with and persist in an event for which they are not well suited) do not make it to the Olympics. At that level the filter screen is too fine.

  5. Orgasmic Meditation
    Nicole Daedone

    She has a book that I read through, something like “slow sex”. It’s heavily padded with personal anecdotes of no great interest. I suspect that the target audience includes women who have desensitized their clit with waaay too much vibrator use.

    “New orgasm”, it is to laugh.

    PS: ROLLO, when I click on “newer comments” i’m getting a redirect to a spam site.

  6. kfg
    As a general rule I have noted that women know squat all about either exercise or yoga, but won’t listen to people who do.

    Sometimes I wish I knew as much about everything as the average woman believes she does.

  7. Rollo
    Why is it impossible to mention JBP in any critical respect and have it not be a “swipe”?

    Because his supporters have a lot of emotional involvement in JBP….

  8. kfg
    …don’t stretch muscle, you relax it…”

    Hmm. I’m going to have to think about that in the context of the fascia and myofascial trigger points.

  9. kfg
    Athletes from the Island of Misfit Toys (those who fall in love with and persist in an event for which they are not well suited) do not make it to the Olympics.

    Or other comparable events.
    Exhiibit A: The Kenyan national soccer team that got into the World Cup some years back. Distance runners trying to sprint for an hour and a half…

  10. Speaking of the goddess baloney, I came across this piece of blog real estate, entitled “Athena Talks”. To see the hilarity here, imagine us guys calling our corner of the world “Zeus Talks”. But what really takes the cake is the feature article there, yet another slutty feminist complaining that when she said “yes” she didn’t really mean it. You can’t make this stuff up:

    https://medium.com/athena-talks/on-successful-men-entitlement-and-the-worst-sex-weve-all-had-e4b407c21a7e

  11. Distance runners trying to sprint for an hour and a half…

    If you watch the Spanish and Brazilians play, they don’t sprint all that much and still manage to do well. It could be better tactics…

  12. “Distance swimmers look very different from sprinters.”

    Athletes from the Island of Misfit Toys (those who fall in love with and persist in an event for which they are not well suited) do not make it to the Olympics. At that level the filter screen is too fine.

    I have no idea how what you said relates to what I said. I was replying to anon (not AR).

  13. Dont get the digs at yoga. Been practicing for 15 years, do a 15 min practice each morning, then i fuck my girfriend senseless afterwards

  14. This OM thing is just a way to convert beta orbiters into human vibrators… Hahaha, very clever ladies..
    I’m willing to bet if he accidentally orgasmed and got some of it anywhere on her body she would lose her shit. Besides I’m sure the boy-rubbers are not permitted to be naked anyway. Just another manual labor task for betas.

    In a previous post quoting the OM founder, she said “The technique has been used for many years as a medical treatment.”
    Umm yes, used to cure hysteria which had been thought an actual mental disorder until we realized that it’s just a frenzied, hormone induced, state of mind. The misogynist male doctors of the day found that forcing these women to orgasm short circuited the runaway hormone induced craziness.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

    Can you imagine the outrage if some male Dr today suggested we bring back this treatment?? Yet when this chick describes the same thing, even openly linking it to ‘masturbating a woman’ we’re supposed to believe it’s a new spiritual practice. She even said something about it calming her racing mind. Haha, yeah my woman is pretty chill after a good fucking too…

  15. “womankind has been intimately aware of the complicity of men in granting them a default connection to the supernatural. While we may not profess a formal belief in such, men are eager to accommodate female power in this arena”

    The power a woman has over a man is all encompassing. The sight, touch, smell of her. The sound of her voice will attract a man to a woman.

    A year ago I was talking to a HGV driver. We had literally just met when he proceeded to tell me about his partner. A single mom who he’d been acquainted with for the past eighteen months. He informs me, she was in financial difficulty with no means of repaying the debts she’d accrued.
    In he steps and gives her fifteen thousand pounds to pay off those debts.

    This is a man who appeared desperate, to hear from someone other than his friends and family, how stupid he’d been.

    I didn’t have the heart to tell him.

    I suspect his partner never asked him directly for the money. Instead she bombarded him with tales of woe, until he couldn’t stand it any longer and did something about it. Whatever magic spell she had him under has worn off and he’s now regretting it.

    Unfortunately, I’ve heard several other stories over the years where similar has happened.

    Men defer to women’s divinity as their powers of persuasion are quite real.

  16. “Because his supporters have a lot of emotional involvement in JBP….”

    That is hilarious, but with some truth.

    Seems there are a lot of emotional investments being developed here. Question is, who is being honest about it and who’s AMOGing to protect their investments?

  17. @kfg: pistol squats, safe or unsafe? With full range? Stretch reflex or wait at bottom?

    When I don’t have a gym I do them, but I don’t like that I need to do so many to compare with the barbell load.

  18. “Dont get the digs at yoga.”

    ‘Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.’ — Bruce Lee

    I have taken no more digs at yoga than Bruce Lee did at martial arts. Yoga is a system of spiritual practice. Asana are traditional exercises within that system which have certain functions in the context of that system.

    Both within and without yoga if you remove that context the traditional methods may not work, or even be contraindicated.

    Understand the reason for the traditional practice. It is the reason that is yoga, not the particular poses.

    Then take what works, and take it from any place you can find it, and discard what does not work, no matter where you found it.

    If you do that you will find that if you are not trying to transcend your physical limitations by damaging yourself physically and are trying to exercise to maintain “health and fitness” and “flexibility” you will have very few if any of your poses left.

    Just as Bruce found that he had little if any traditional kata forms left.

    Because over time, for various reasons, function had been forgotten and replaced by “style.”

  19. ” pistol squats, safe or unsafe? ”

    Safe, when developed through the proper progression. Hold onto something if you need to, as long as you need to. It isn’t “cheating.” Simply falling over is your greatest risk of injury. Don’t do that.

    With reflex is a competition technique, to the get the most reps and lift the heaviest weight. For muscle building you’ll get more bang for your rep without, but use it during the progression where you need to to safely accomplish the rep.

    Range of motion you want to avoid time, and particularly direction change, at parallel. That’s what tears up knees. First work the progression for full range of motion, then, when you can do that, continue to go ass to grass, but you’ll get more bang for your rep if you only come up to the quarter. That’ll sting some because it increases the time under tension quite a bit.

  20. Bruce Lee was the closest thing to a hero in my life that wasn’t related to me by blood, and even now when I see him quoted it makes me grin as a Cheshire cat.😀

    To go a bit further, if I compare jbp and his musings against Bruce’s, Bruce had more practical advice ( for me ) that has been useful over the last 45 years of muh life.

    Nothing against jbp, but I’m still waiting to see the brilliance that people seem eager to ascribe to him, and a large part of this is due to age. I’m a year older than him so I judge his words differently than a 20 year old ( that’s never heard such things before ) by looking at accuracy across the board as well as strength under testing.

    No hate.

    I think there are a million men living today, right now, that could deliver a more accurate grouping of ideas than jbp. He’s just the flavor of the moment.

    And the other million don’t have access to the soapbox at the moment.

  21. The western female has acquired nearly absolute power. But, absolute power is unsustainable. She has become a tyranical lunitic and her tyranny will be her demise as the empress now has no clothes thanks to the red pill. As women gain power in mass, a significant number of individuals in the culture are psychologicaly and physiologicaly sexually mutilated. Look,around and witness the effects. Their power is actionably provided by their expected legal entitlement to commit fetal homocide at will, and the birth control pill. These provide her power to act without forethought or consequence, to interact without accepting responsibility to others or herself. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. What, other than a homocidal maniac, would scream and writhe in rage over the mere suggestion that her legal entitlement to commit fetal homocide may be slightly threatened in the future? Should such maniacs be our rulers?

  22. @Seraph
    I’d be interested your rebuttal to Vox Day’s JBP takedown. He has done at least a half dozen posts at his site in which he reads and quotes JBP as well as JBP fans and then dissects them. I think Vox is a bit over the top, but he does have valid points worth discussing. Plus he finds it interesting that JBP fans mostly do not critique Vox’s work directly, instead they hit back with ad hominem based arguments which seems to him (and me as well) that most fans do not seem capable of critical thinking on their own.

    Anyway go to Vox Day’s blog and search there for his JBP related posts. If you did already respond there, my apologies. You might summarize that for the readers here.

  23. All this talk about Woo is funny as hell. It seems so obvious, but nonetheless this too can be added to the overall lexicon of RP.

    It is totally not necessary to practice dangerous poses without still getting benefit. There are dangers to many forms of exercise, need we list them all?

    The very meaning of the word Yoga in Sanskrit tells one enough if you’re interested. A person can let the spiritual aspect be part of it…or not. People often confuse peaceful quiet minds, low blood pressure and a flood of brain chemicals with “spirituality.” Part of the problem is as what was suggested earlier, there is much larping about “spirtuality.” People blend all sorts of crazy shit together and redefine it into whatever they please regardless if it hokum or not.
    It’s easy to practice certain asanas and not drink the Kool Aid. No different than moving out of the anger stage once you’ve become aware of the FI and hypergamy.

    I quit teaching and largely practicing yoga just prior to coming here. Yes, the yoga stuff all fit into the massive blue pill shit I lived. There is so much in the yoga “thing” that is major turnoff. If certain poses help your body then do them. Or don’t…who the fuck really cares if you lift, ride a bike, run marathons or swim? It’s an oversight to not take advantage of whatever “tools” are available. The practice helped me immensely…at that time.

    To each his own and whatever benefits you. If you “feel” less masculine because you do a few yoga poses then perhaps how you define masculine is the problem. The culture that pervades yoga is absolutely not masculine. Avoid that.

    “Then take what works, and take it from any place you can find it, and discard what does not work, no matter where you found it.”

    Also depends on if you’re recovery from injuries, surgeries etc…There is nothing wrong with having good flexibility, balance and less stress. It usually takes of practice years before one can become knowledgeable about all the poses and when to use them, or to avoid them. It’s also a fools errand to think you need to do so learn and practice them all. If you have a shitty teacher you can become injured very easily. Every one of my students had to fill out an injury disclosure form prior to taking my class. I made damn sure I wasn’t going to suggest someone try headstand if they had a cervical injury. LOL if you watched a DVD or YouTube video (except for the one Ehintellect linked to ) and think you understand anything about yoga.

    Most people are clueless about connective tissue, muscles, fascia, trauma and the difference between relaxation and working the muscle/connective tissue to heal. Many yoga poses have been introduced into common exercise for a long long time. You don’t see people doing headstands in gym class, but holding plank is common, same with lunges. I injured a shoulder a few years back and the best treatment was physical therapy. One of the several modalities done to heal was yoga poses. Of course the PT did not say it was yoga, but it was.

    KFG wrote: “If you do that you will find that if you are not trying to transcend your physical limitations by damaging yourself physically and are trying to exercise to maintain “health and fitness” and “flexibility” you will have very few if any of your poses left.”

    Truth to that. But out of the potential hundreds of poses a dozen or so suit me very well and I’m not trying to transcend myself into union with “higher self” or unite all of my “chakras” into a single divine entity. LOL I’ve always stayed away from that pretzel shit which is absolutely ridiculous to do and can cause serious injury.

  24. “The western female has acquired nearly absolute power.”

    In some ways. But just that thinking alone is not healthy. Power over what? What have you ceded in your life to allow them to have absolute power?

  25. @blax

    “I think there are a million men living today, right now, that could deliver a more accurate grouping of ideas than jbp. He’s just the flavor of the moment.”

    Yup, out of the billions on the planet. I’m not so sure anybody here on TRM is stating that JBP is “brilliant.” One doesn’t have to be brilliant to help save lives or just plain help others out. It does take some balls to step into the public limelight and face the attacks. Getting doxxed, stalked, and having your character smeared like a turd on the roadside doesn’t seem to be very much fun and is actually likely quite uncomfortable.

    It takes more than just publishing ideas together to create change. I sure as hell don’t have those talents or knowledge. Regardless of the “boi” reference and that tiresome clean your room crap, you have to admit that it is fun to watch JBP shred the media and SJWs. Who the hell else is doing that today?

  26. “Because his supporters have a lot of emotional involvement in JBP….”

    Roused
    That is hilarious, but with some truth.

    Of course it has some truth, else I would not say it in this context.

    The context of “supporters” is not at all uniform. The men in their early 20’s who are benefitting from JBP to any degree are coming out of the K – 12 feminizing machine and they will grasp desperately and emotionally at any scrap of masculinity they can find, because the feminizers have been trying to grind that out of them. On the other hand, those men over 40 who are endorsing JBP because he sorta kinda doesn’t put up with too much crap from feminists are possibly just looking for some public figure that doesn’t fall on his knees in abnegation at the first whiff of a pussy-hat.

    The problem is, JBP is not a very good example of masculinity. He stands out because in the country of the blind he has one sort of working eye. His advice is the sort of basic stuff that young men used to get growing up from male relatives, from Scout leaders, from teacher-mentors such as athletic coaches or shop teachers. The FI has co-opted or erased a lot of that, leaving boys especially those whose mothers frivorced with zero masculine role model or mentor.

    JBP is not a very good example because he blue pill and he pedestalizes women. Probably his N = 1, he married his wife out of college but he supposedly decided at the age of 8 that he wanted to marry her. Nothing wrong with that, but outside of a religious context it is anachronistic at best. He’s on record referring to PUA’s as behaving psychopathically, in part because they go to a bar or a club to have sex with a woman but not any particular woman. However he says nothing at all about the carousel riders who likewise go to a bar because they feel the need, the need for seed…he’s just not in touch with hypergamy, doubly so with unleashed hypergamy. His premises about women are just as false as the premises of any 60-year old TradCon.

    He doesn’t seem to have any grasp of evo-psych, any Game he has is “professor game” (that’s what his interview with the Brit feminist showed a lot of) but he’s way far down the Jungian rabbit hole. The problem is, you cannot really make predictions with Jungianism, it’s all on a par with astrology, and I would advise any young man to stay far away from stuff like astrology.

    JBP’s also chronically depressed, and has been on medication for that quite some time now. I do not know what he’s been prescribed. I do know from family and social circle that the SSRI’s can be useful for short term use to get someone out of a mentalpit, but over the longer term there are some real serious side effects. Whatever his meds, they are affecting his actual brain structure…

    Changing himself from “JBP, Professor” to “JBP, public intellectual” has been a good career move, he’s getting good bank from Patreon. It’s great that he stood up to the Canadian pronoun police. But it’s not great that he’s blue pill, that he pedestalizes women, because he’s teaching young men to be blue-pill pedestalizers.

    Seems there are a lot of emotional investments being developed here. Question is, who is being honest about it and who’s AMOGing to protect their investments?

    Who cares? Do you want to discuss ideas, or people? The whole JBP phenom has illuminated a couple of facts that most people don’t know about and many don’t want to know about:

    First, the degree to which young men have been literally brainwashed to fear and hate masculinity at the conscious level, which is at war with their own genetics. There’s a reason why young men are hungry for anything even remotely like masculinity, because that’s how they are wired up. Those Christian tradcons who are wringing their hands over JBP’s poplularity cannot bring themselves to look at their own churches, which are feminized Beta factories.

    Second, the kindness and caring that JBP shows for those young men is something very rare; he knows the difference between a carrot and a stick, unlike just about every other male “leader” in the public eye. Again, those TradCon church men who fret about JBP’s popularity just need to “step up” to the mirror – who has been treating young men with utter contempt for the last 20, 30 years besides feminists? That’s right, their TradCon sockpuppets.

    These and other ideas need as much mainstream exposure as possible. To the extent that JBP does that, I’m all in favor. But when it comes to the FI, he’s way off base and downright dangerous to young men, IMO, because he’s another servant of the Imperative, not really an opponent.

  27. AR
    I’m still handicapped by the inability to post images, but here’s a handclapping gif for that wonderful comment.

  28. Roused
    One of the several modalities done to heal was yoga poses. Of course the PT did not say it was yoga, but it was.

    Similar experience. Girl PT’s seem more likely to be involved in yoga at some level. The physical benefits are separate from the mystical / religious / spiritual aspects in most cases. They may or may not mention “this is a yoga pose”; is it “butterfly” or is it “relaxing the adductor muscles”? I don’t have a hairdresser so I can’t know for sure.

    One of the things I am noticing in 20-somethings is a near inability to “turn it off”. They are constantly stimulated and many are self-stimulating; the smartphone handset is a primary source. About two weeks back I was on a multi hour flight sitting next to a cute 20-something, and it was funny to watch her idly pick up her phone from time to time to check messages in flight, because she’d put it in Airplane mode before takeoff, and didn’t connect to the aircraft WiFi. So no signal. It was like a data handshake timeout : “N minutes have passed, must check texts!”.

    There are any number of ways to damp down the “noise” of modern life. Yoga / meditation / prayer is one that has a long track record. But ditto exercise and anything else that is approached with the right mindset.

    Hmm.
    Kinda surprised fleezer hasn’t popped in yet with a story of some girl mall-yoga teacher who turned out to be freaky…

  29. Roused

    I enjoy, mostly, listening to the bulk of jbp’s stuff, but as soon as he says ” the ( radical ) left… “, he loses me because now it’s more of a partisan thought/idea than an actual idea that can stand alone in it’s merit. Young men don’t need more indoctrination, they need facts and more facts, that will lead to critical thought and a developed ability to see through/cut through all manner of bullshit manipulation.

    Take what’s useful…..

  30. “I think there are a million men living today, right now, that could deliver a more accurate grouping of ideas than jbp. He’s just the flavor of the moment.”

    So what you are saying is that there are a million men living today that have groupings of ideas to give to my son (who doesn’t listen or read JBP) and his cohorts (some of who do and are inspired to make sense, get off their asses and go out and have talent and mastery based on JBP signals that started a process of Ignition in them….)?

    More accurate for what? How do you judge philosophical accuracy?

    I thought praxeology matters: “Then take what works, and take it from any place you can find it, and discard what does not work, no matter where you found it.”

    I made some beef jerky in this past week based on a recipe by Peterson and his daughter: Sprinkle salt, ground pepper and turmeric on strips of beef. Dehydrate it.

    I’ll be damned if that turmeric doesn’t stain fingers and teeth. I’m going to discard the turmeric in that recipe. In fact I’ll discard the whole recipe and marinate the next batch with Alton Brown’s recipe. Or one of my own formulation.

    Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with their particular thing. YGBFSM

  31. Years ago I used to practice what I called guerilla meditation by trying to block out every sound ( and smell ) while in subways stations and on trains. I’d surmise that I had about a 20% success rate. It was much easier on planes. 6-8 your flights became as 20 minute flights. 4 hours to Puerto Rico passed before the really good, deep, cloud-like stuff materialized.

  32. “JBP is not a very good example because he blue pill and he pedestalizes women.”

    To insinuate that fanbois are holding him up as an example of masculinity or that all of him is not complementary to Red Pill, or is indeed making our sons Play with Dynamite is therefore a Strawman Argument. Something not actually presented by the alleged “JBP Fanbois”.

    Near as I can tell, he advocates for enlightened self interest, embracing one’s dark side (while controlling it) and having a bottoms up approach to self improvement, while having an eye on the dangers of top down societal, social, and political imperatives (including malevolent ones).

  33. Jordan Peterson is NOT the source to turn to if one is interested in Game or in the Jewish Question.
    Other than that, the man is #ourguy, with some great insight and advice on life.
    IMO, of course.

  34. Well, I’m not going to go back and rewatch his videos looking for all that phantom enlightened self interest stuff that wasn’t apparent in what I’ve samples so far.

  35. Sjf

    Example of what I’m talking about somewhat.

    A couple of weeks back I was doing my ” address the youth ” thing in a hall downtown. I looked out over the crowd of young faces, aged from teens through 30’s, about 1200 of them squashed together. And I asked a question ( one of a dozen similar questions )-

    ” How many of you have heard the tern social justice warrior ” ?

    Maybe 25-30 people raised their hands.

    Now, I could have tried explaining what sjw meant by using specific terminology ( right wing/alt right ), but I’m not interested in having these people adopt my thoughts. Their ” homework assignment ” was to scour the web using ” sjw” and find out how the way it’s used is relevant to their every day lives. Bonus points if anyone can explain How long the phrase has been in existence and how it might effect the rights of some going forward.

    I think the best way to inspire thought is by challenging people to think and put some skin in the game, as it were, not to eloquently dictate personal perspective as revelatory fact.

  36. Blaximus
    Years ago I used to practice what I called guerilla meditation by trying to block out every sound ( and smell ) while in subways stations and on trains.

    Bruce Lee would no doubt have approved. Then suggest an alternate approach.

  37. Blaximus
    Their ” homework assignment ” was to scour the web using ” sjw” and find out how the way it’s used is relevant to their every day lives.

    The Ngram would probably not be a big surprise.

    Do the same search for “nation of immigrants” some time.
    Cultural appropriation is not the one-way street some people believe it to be.

  38. Roused
    Most people are clueless about connective tissue, muscles, fascia, trauma and the difference between relaxation and working the muscle/connective tissue to heal.

    Where “most people” includes a whole lotta Medical Doctors. Maybe in the last few years med schools have started including the fascia in anatomy and neurology classes, and stopped just discarding it during dissections? Yeah, maybe. I sure hope so, it would be beneficial to all concerned. There’s a lot of “Not Invented Here” in med schools, though.

    When I started looking into myofascial trigger points, referred pain and chronic pain it was interesting to see that apparently the Osteopaths knew something about all that stuff back in the 1940’s – 50’s or even earlier. They couldn’t necessarily explain it, but they could and did observe repeatable patterns, and they weren’t so stuffed full of arrogance so as to ignore neurophysical symptoms literally right in front of them, in hurting humans on the exam table. They could and did test that knowledge in an empirical fashion.

    Even more interesting, some of the known myofascial trigger points line up very closely with acupuncture meridians; problem solving via experiment and observation has been going on a loooong time in some cultures. I had a discussion once with a PT about the difference between dry-needling a trigger point, and doing acupuncture on a meridian, but he wasn’t about to go far down that road because the licensing is different. He just couldn’t talk about it casuallly.

    At least the “homunculous” pain model (“pain is a signal from the brain”) is now standard in sports-medicine textbooks, so it oughta be in the MD teachings as well. Oughta…

  39. Blaximus
    I enjoy, mostly, listening to the bulk of jbp’s stuff, but as soon as he says ” the ( radical ) left… “, he loses me because now it’s more of a partisan thought/idea than an actual idea that can stand alone in it’s merit.

    The ironic thing is, JBP is a leftist by any standard of the last 100 years or more. He’s a moderate lefty, though, so the whole idea of the Pronoun Police was offensive to him. Probably he’d get on board with a lot of John Stuart Mill’s ideas (including Mills pedestalization…).

    It’s just indicative of how far the radical feminists and the Social Justice Warriors have pushed the window of discourse that a moderate, Canadian leftist who worked for the UN winds up in opposition to the rainbow-haired who scream “Xir! Say XIR!” in college classrooms. Bonus points for the irony of this moderate lefty being painted as some sort of Fascist by the “Social Justice Uber Alles!” crew who insist everyone must Celebrate Diversity in the exact, same, identical way…or else.

  40. Walawala
    Women are the first to push forward a super natural “it was fate” narrative and the first suddenly say “the feeling’s” gone…

    Well, sure. Women live in a constant sea of emotions, and they do not generally get “cause and effect” very clear [1]. So since they are oscillating from fear to glee to anxiety to lust, and they don’t really understand how parts of the world work, naturally they are going to believe in “soulmate” one minute and “it’s all changed” sometime later.

    Because there’s obviously something outside of them that’s “making things happen”, and their solipsistic nature doesn’t like that one bit. So what to do? Chalk “things” up to something diffuse like “fate” or “the stars” or, in the political world, “teh Patriarchy!”.

    For sure it’s never their fault, unless some man taught them patiently how to take a little bit of responsibility for their actions. Gee, I wonder if the increase in frivorce and thus girls raised with no father had any effect?

    [1] Yeah, NAWALT except AWALT. I’ve known women in science and even engineering who could and did understand cause and effect, but only within a sandbox. In the area where some men trained them to think clearly and sequentially, they could get it; but in their own private lives..not so much.

  41. When a master of the manoverse comments about a cultural iconoclast…his followers fall into two camps and hash it out among themselves.

    Some ask why would Rollo lower himself to that? Is there something to JP that I haven’t figured out yet? Why is Rollo giving him credence? Is JP a threat? Why do people adore JP so?

    Better for a leader to use a cat’s paw if possible when dealing with an ideological opponent if not personally debating.

    http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-26-keep-your-hands-clean.html

  42. O.B.I.T.
    I don’t mind the guy but It might be time for a Godwin’s Law corollary — first one to mention Jordan Peterson loses.

    Most people never argued with Mike Godwin about US politics, so they don’t really understand Godwin’s Law or where it came from.

    Rather than tie that Law into a pretzel, let’s just suggest the JBP effect: in any comment thread discussing men and meaning, someone will bring him up. Because he is very, very visible right now.

    “JBP effect: in any comment thread discussing men and women, the probability that Jordan B. Peterson will be mentioned monotonically approaches 1 as time increases”. Or something like that.

  43. Sentient
    Well consider that your local rub and tugger is regularly raided and men arrested… But “One Taste” is headlining TED talks…

    Exotify… legally… One of these things is not like the other.

    Yep. Just like the laws in Nordic countries, where a woman streetwalker gets a warning or a fine, but the john who took her up on the offer goes to jail.

    Controlling male sexuality is part of the FI. The goddess-cult version does it one way, legalistic feminism does it another, but…it’s all about control of men in every case.

    It’s not really babies all the way down. Because not all babies are equally valuable to the FI.

  44. Blaximus: “I enjoy, mostly, listening to the bulk of jbp’s stuff, but as soon as he says ” the ( radical ) left… “, he loses me because now it’s more of a partisan thought/idea than an actual idea that can stand alone in it’s merit.”

    Anonymous Reader: “The ironic thing is, JBP is a leftist by any standard of the last 100 years or more.”

    Andrew Sweeney on Medium Feb. 17 Jordan Peterson vs. Russel brand (can’t link here):

    “I’m interested in common ground between Peterson and the leftists, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Peterson’s frontal attack on post-modernism and Marxism has meant that a lot of leftists are missing out on him — they have been duped into believing that Peterson is a sort of intellectual version of Trump, a dangerous reactionary or conservative. But nothing is further from the truth.

    Peterson is not tribal: he simply disturbs some people because they don’t know what box to put him in. Sometimes he sounds like a conservative, and other times a centrist; sometimes he has leftist concerns and at other times he is an ‘evil capitalist’ (his own words); and because he has a far-ranging and nuanced view of humanity, he is able to converse with all types. This is one of the things that makes him so valuable: he is a genuine peacemaker. Can he actually help the leftists go beyond postmodern identity politics, just has he has helped right-wingers move away from the extremes? Peterson has said, ‘the proper concern of the left is to provide a political voice for the working class’  — not exactly the words of a typical right-wing republican.

  45. Sjf

    I’d be able to accept jbp more if in his intellectualizing, he’d lose the labels. That’s why I contend that he gets quite a bit wrong by his penchant of attaching labels, sometimes grossly incorrectly.

    I get that ” tribalism ” is the new circle jerk cover for levels of ignorance, but imo, it limits an intellectual person’s ability to get thought last a narrow band of folk.

    Tribal is not intellectual. Tribal is just plain tribal. Tribal is the new ” style “. Nothing in America ( and probably Canada too ) is truly tribal except the tribe of money and all the fantasy and imaginary shit that goes with having a lot of it, having a little of it, and having none of it. Those are the ” tribes ” and left/right is just exercise at the end of the day. Games without frontiers and shit.😁

  46. @AR
    You are on a roll today, enjoyed your synopsis of JBP and helping me get closer to postulating a JBP Effect. The probability of hearing that name apparently approaches 1 no matter what the subject matter.

    Maybe TRM needs a separate dedicated JBP section, like Field Reports, for Rollo and everyone to work things out. Rugby can supply the links and I’ll make a lasagna.

  47. Blaximus
    Nothing in America ( and probably Canada too ) is truly tribal except the tribe of money and all the fantasy and imaginary shit that goes with having a lot of it, having a little of it, and having none of it.

    I can tell you live on the East coast. Out here in flyover there are still real-deal tribes, with Tribal law and stuff like that. The level 0, simplest example can be seen in a number of places. So, nope. Not gonna buy that.

  48. @Rollo

    I know ur super busy posting super badass self portraits for the gram, but there’s some issue with “logging in” to post shit in the Field Report Forum you set up last week. Plz fix. Thx

  49. Oh my fucking JBP… Guys this is not the forum for that.
    I have no beef with the intellectual man who wants to help young men find a purpose beyond pussy worship, and that is what JBP (and Rollo) is trying to do.. Full Stop.
    Please acknowledge that he truly isn’t fully Red Pill, and I think we mostly agree there. But neither is most of the MGTOW movement.
    The reality is that many different dudes will find their own flavor of RP in a way, and while we may disagree strongly, I think we all agree its a bumpy path and at least they aren’t oblivious BP chumps.
    Make your case with reason and a little understanding and don’t ‘turn off’ those who may not have connected all the dots. Our individual understanding of it will vary greatly and all we can do is try to guide men as they put shit together for themselves.

  50. So, let me get this straight.

    Rollo retweets some guy named Kyle Trouble who is opining on Jordan Peterson:

    Jordan Peterson is simply a Kardashian version for the red pill.

    Keep sucking his D as a convenient backup to your own ego.

    Won’t get you anywhere.

    To be clear, I have never really “gotten into” JBP’s stuff.

    From what I’ve seen, I agree with many of his principles.

    However, doesn’t change my point.

    I am criticizing not his message, but the worship behind it.

    If you are too blind to see this, thanks for proving my claim.

    TL;DR:

    If you have nothing better to do but devour JBP videos and content and then argue for him on the interwebz…

    …go clean your room.

    (Also goes for any celebrities or blogs/podcasts/YouTubers, etc, yours truly included)

    No, Kim Kardashian is not JBP’s intellectual equivalent.

    But she has 1,000,000x the influence and following he does.

    The point comes down to celeb worship, not intellectual merit.

    I’m not attacking JBP at all, I like a lot of his ideas, agree with many of them.

    But, you prove my point.

    Sounds clinically retarded to me.

    This following essay and attached video is not, although Peterson never claimed to be Red Pill:

    https://therationalmale.com/tag/jordan-b-peterson/

    excerpt:

    What is the Red Pill version of “man-up”?

    I had a commenter ask me this in the last comment thread. I think there’s two sides to this question. First, I think there’s a need to keep the Red Pill (in the intersexual sense) as close to an objectivist purpose as possible. That means Red Pill awareness is the result of a continuing praxeology.

    I’ve locked horns with a few Red Pill guys recently who seem to think that ‘Red Pill’ is an ideology and it’s just the counter revolt to feminism; basically it is feminism for men. I think that does a huge disservice to everything and everyone that’s brought us to where we are today in Red Pill awareness and all of the work and personal risk that was put on the line to explore what we know as Red Pill awareness now. Not only that it casually devalues the effort and work that’s continuing right now.

    Critics and feminists alike want to draw parallels in the manosphere to whatever (fictitious) wave of feminism they think applies to whatever the Men’s Rights Movement is calling Red Pill at the moment. Believing that Red Pill is an ideology is one more casualty of how the term / brand has been bastardized by other ideologies who’ve never had any business referring to themselves as “red pill”.

    Presuming Red Pill is just an ideology is juvenile, and unsurprisingly it’s an opinion of some underexperienced men in the manosphere who want for simplistic answers. They don’t want to think about what Red Pill awareness implies on a larger social scale. They want a flag to wave and an easy to understand ideology so they can stick it to their feminist enemies. I get it. They want Red Pill (however they define it) to be that ideology, but to me, I think, and I’ve always said it, the Red Pill needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, areligious and amoral to ensure that it stays true to understanding truth. It needs to remain true to being an aggregate of men’s collected experiences with intersexual dynamics.

    What these guys want is a meaning to that truth, but that’s not the Red Pill. Meaning is what men will apply to that truth according to their individual needs, situations and circumstances. This is why Peterson and probably some more personalities to follow him will be popular in the future; they prioritize meaning above truth. If you listen to the first podcast of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson they spend the entire time trying to come to an agreed measure of truth between the two of them so they can move on (in the second podcast) to what is meaning.

    You want to know why I don’t do prescriptions on The Rational Male? Because we disempower ourselves when we follow someone else’s path and not our own.

    There is a deep need in almost all people to improve or ‘fix’ ourselves in some way. I’ve written essays about it; discontent is is the human condition. That in no way means that life is suffering as per the Peterson (Zen) doctrine, but it is man’s condition to never be satisfied with even the greatest of accomplishments. That is what put us at the top of the species contest on this planet. You can be constructively or destructively discontent, but when you tell me that life is suffering and the only way to lessen that suffering (never to solve it of course) is to sacrifice my way to a better life all that says to me is that you’re out of ideas for a creative solution and you’re all-in on the destructive methods. Either that or you’ll continue naval gazing.

    Fuck that.

    So, the Red Pill needs to remain a praxeology and it ought to always resist being force-fit into an ideology because it’s always some ideological hack who wants to claim the truth it reveals as proof of his own purpose. The Red Pill has to remain an open source aggregate of men’s experiences. That’s why we’re still here today in spite of the Rooshs who said it would die out 3 years ago – it’s open source and decentralized information.

    Now, to the second point, what does ‘Man up’ mean in the Red Pill context? I think this is really for the individual to decide, but I’d say that it would involve a man utilizing and internalizing the awareness the Red Pill represents to him and improving his life with it. In the Safety Net post’s comment thread there are hundreds of examples of how men saved their own lives, often literally. How the Red Pill truth reached them and then manifested in their lives is highly individual. I mentioned the need for a dissociation with ideology because that usually means aligning oneself with the expectations of someone else’s version of truth, not the objective (or as objective as we can make it) truth of the Red Pill.

    When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?

    It should, because in almost all contexts imploring a guy to “Man Up” is following someone else’s path, not your own. This is what I mean when I say that I’m not in the business of creating better men, I’m in the business of men making themselves better men. And in today’s world of men seeking direction there is no shortage of personalities who’d like nothing more than to profit from selling men on their paths.

    If there is a definition of ‘manning up’ in a Red Pill sense it is living a better way than your previous life that was informed by the falsehoods of your Blue Pill conditioning. Manning up Red Pill is killing off that old Blue Pill-created persona and killing off the false idealisms it taught you. It’s understanding and internalizing that those lies made you a less authentic person because the Blue Pill is firmly an ideology, but one that wears the mask of freedom or choice or individualism. If self-improvement in a Red Pill sense entail some basic tenets, one is that a man cuts himself away from that old Blue Pill paradigm and rebuilds a better life for himself based on a real understanding of intersexual truth on the personal, social and political scales.

    Manning up Red Pill begins with rejecting the lies of egalitarian equalism and a commitment to real objective understanding of intersexual dynamics.

    And earlier in that essay, Rollo wrote:

    For the record here I want to say that I have a great respect for Dr. Peterson. I think he’s what the sphere has needed for a while and I think he fits the role of ‘champion’ that a generation of young men have wanted to place on someone. Ideologically I agree with about 85-90% of what he advocates and there’s no doubt that he’s got definite skin in the game. In fact I really hate it when people use that as some catch phrase to disqualify men today. As a man we all have skin in the game now. How much and to what degree may be debatable, but we all live in a feminine-primary social order and as such we all have a lot to risk whether we acknowledge this or not.

    Where I differ with Peterson is in his very Trad-Con solutions to turning the ship around.

    Peterson is part of the manosphere. No one ever said that he was aligned with The Red Pill. Except some clinical retards who think he’s a mini-Kardashian-wanna-be.

  51. @Blaximus

    “Example of what I’m talking about somewhat.”

    I love you, man.

    But what you relate story-wise sounds like a non sequitur.

    Blax: “I think the best way to inspire thought is by challenging people to think and put some skin in the game, as it were, not to eloquently dictate personal perspective as revelatory fact.”

    I agree. If that’s what you take away from Peterson’s work, lectures, book tours, book, Etc. All I have to say is I don’t see any lack of that.

    Challenge people to think.
    Put/have skin in the game.
    Don’t use the genetic fallacy.

    The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue) is a fallacy of irrelevance that is based solely on someone’s or something’s history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. In other words, a fact is ignored in favor of attacking its source.

    You, Blax are using “a fallacy of irrelevance: Irrelevant conclusion, also known as ignoratio elenchi (Latin for an ignoring of a refutation) or missing the point, is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid and sound, but (whose conclusion) fails to address the issue in question.” (The issue in question being: “Why is it impossible to mention JBP in any critical respect and have it not be a “swipe”? Questions fanbois need to consider.” The answer? Because some of us don’t do Twitter and are not clinically retarded. And were commenting in the manosphere on a Red Pill blog with the understanding that the manosphere is composed of a Venn diagram of Tribes. Where in the world is YaReally, anyway,,,)

    If you want to listen to something cool and relevant to older men, as well as your youth group listen to the video interview by Russell Brand of Jordan Peterson. In it, JBP dissects talking points from Brand’s book Recovery: Freedom from our Addictions. (also applies to bad Blue Pill habits, Heh.Heh.) It’s on YouTube and called: NEW: Jordan Peterson & Russell Brand on FREEDOM and TYRANNY. It’s good stuff, listen to it on your commute.

  52. SjR
    Please acknowledge that he truly isn’t fully Red Pill, and I think we mostly agree there. But neither is most of the MGTOW movement.

    You new around here or somethin’?

  53. “SjR
    Please acknowledge that he truly isn’t fully Red Pill, and I think we mostly agree there. But neither is most of the MGTOW movement.

    You new around here or somethin’?”

    Not at all… but I’d like to cut through the shit and settle things a bit..

    JBP is a division that we really don’t need.. by that I mean the question of “is he legit?”

  54. SjR
    Not at all…

    Then you have read through the multiple visitations by black-pilled MGTOW, blue-pill MGTOW, “if you’re not with us you’re against us” MGTOW, etc. in which case your observation isn’t just redundant, it is downright dumb.

    but I’d like to cut through the shit and settle things a bit..

    The issue of virulent MGTOW’s status is pretty much settled. So why bring it up? To troll for flames, or something else?

    JBP is a division that we really don’t need.. by that I mean the question of “is he legit?”

    Why?

  55. @Random Angeleno,

    “Anyway go to Vox Day’s blog and search there for his JBP related posts. If you did already respond there, my apologies.”

    Thanks, but I am not on Vox Day’s site.

    I was going to do a longer general response, but am holding off. I made my points and I will let them stand.

  56. I’ll take “tools” or information from any source if it proves to be beneficial. The Red Pill sure seems like a good prax, so I’m working it.

    When someone in your life you care for is in crisis you use whatever tool is available and is most appropriate to help them. So if Jordan Peterson’s lectures/Videos/books help someone and you don’t like it because of his ideology? That is a problem you’ve manifested in your own head.

    We can buy all the books and share link after link with youth and or men in crisis. You can lead a horse to water, right?

    Does anyone seriously think young men are going to attend a JP lecture and then think this: “Wow, Jordan Peterson really puts women on a pedestal.”  Dang, JP needs to be careful because his take on the Feminine Imperative is really dangerous.”

    Grab that pipe and take another big toke.

    Language

    Holy fucking hell. Hypergamy. Feminine Imperative. Solipsism. Inter-sexual dynamics. SMV.  Does anybody in their right mind think young men know what that shit means? Or cares? If you don’t speak their language and or catch them at the right time they are not going to listen.  The “language” used here is not part of their normal vocabulary. 

    Peterson talks a lot about personal responsibility. Can that not be a catalyst for a young man struggling? Is that something to get your panties in a bunch? On Reddit/redpill there is a thread for “owning your shit.” Here there are field reports. Someone provide the detailed context of where ANYBODY on TRM is creating idols of Jordan Peterson. This fanboi shit and thinking people are worshipping JP is really over the top. It is not congruent with the theme of a Rational Male. The quotes SJF found in that Twatter feed from the dude discussing JP and the Kardashians is a perfect example of how hysterical this is getting. It also invalidates some of the so called “sidebar.” A term by the way which in and of itself is antiquated and old school. It’s time to say bye bye to the desktop format people. But that is another topic.

    Which 31 flavors of fucked up ideology are acceptable? The non-vanilla racial scoop from Chateau gets a pass. Whatevs, to each their own.

    I do appreciate some of the comments that specifically point out danger zones and fallacies of anything, person or ideology that goes against Red Pill praxeology. There is a strong (and wrong) assumption that anybody who gets benefit from JBP is drinking his entire fucking jug of Kool Aid.

    I blew up a case of two of dynamite after reading some of Rollo’s works and the comments here about two years ago.  Shit smarted bad for a bit. Learned some harsh lessons. There is no “perfected” step-by-step manual for each and every scenario that men go flip to when they decide to accept the red pill. Or did I miss the Bob Ross version of the Red Pill? Dynamite is everywhere. Danger and risk is part of living. 

  57. “It’s not really babies all the way down. Because not all babies are equally valuable to the FI.”

    Neither are all babies equally valuable to the MI. Some babies have so little value, beyond theological argument, that they are disposable.

    And yet, there are babies. And they go all the way down, and BEYOND!

    No babies>No F>No FI

    Not all babies being equally valuable to the FI is an emergent property of babies. You can’t sort babies without having babies to sort.

  58. I don’t get out much and met my first flat earther yesterday. I took a good hard look at this man,the image of the new barbarian. He had a good job as western district sales rep for a reputable guitar company,was an accomplished PUA with plates in every stopoff.

    Then burntout, married “the one” and adopted her belief systems a Christian literalist if you will.
    His most admirable trait is entering the trades at the age of 38 with no muscle and practically no skill ( he can tie his shoes and walk without tripping over the laces).

    Getting to this Jordan Peterson thing,he strikes me as a man that was indoctrinated and steeped in both religeon and feminism from birth. Then the peices didn’t fit so neat in his higher education indoctrination so he started rearanging the puzzle outloud.

    The rest of the lemings showed up in his classroom and drove him over the edge,trying to do mass therapy on youth that is beyond individual thought and imagination.

    It isn’t so much that he is wrong,rather he is up shit creek without a paddle.The only way these kids are going to learn to function is hard work of survival,many will fail.

    After much suffering the end result will be the new barbarian literalist finding simple answers in wicca and a flat earth, under female direction.

  59. Kfg

    Maybe I’ll come up with The Mossberg Directive.

    I’ve been accused of late of goading young men towards violence. In fact I’m only trying to redirect and focus the random violence they are exposed to. And simply put, Mossbergs may just be a part of the solution.

    Police attending the meetings have pulled my coat numerous times and my sole response is always the same – ” you have a sidearm, no? “.

    If a man is willing to commit acts of violence for petty reasons, that energy needs to be directed in such a way that will actually reduce overall random violence.

    And some will be courtmarshalled.

  60. “Mossbergs may just be a part of the solution.”

    a=F/m. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not, it’s the law. If you want something to change its inertial behavior, you have to push it hard enough.

  61. Blaximus
    Police attending the meetings have pulled my coat numerous times and my sole response is always the same – ” you have a sidearm, no? “.

    They do, but to many cops it’s just another piece of gear on the Bat-belt. Like the radio or flashlight. They don’t really think of it as “thing I use to fight to get to my rifle”. It’s not new, either, a scriptwriter pointed this out with the line “A man’s got to know his limitations” in the second Dirty Harry movie back in the 1970’s.

    This is another reason why many cops are all about “gun for me, no for you”. An attitude that is frankly unAmerican.

    If a man is willing to commit acts of violence for petty reasons, that energy needs to be directed in such a way that will actually reduce overall random violence.

    That includes “act of violence against self”. Which is a real thing among some US subgroups.

    IMO some amount of “act of violence” in this here modern world, whoever it is directed at, grows out of despair more than anger.

  62. One more thing. You either want to help lost boys between 18 and 27 years old. Or you don’t. Whether they are AFC’s, Incels or Chumps. It’s an imperative.

    Vox Day is biased because of who he is and what he has to sell. We all know what is going on there. (Blax should know too because of who Vox is…).

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/05/12-things-i-learned-from-12-rules-of.html

    12 things I learned from 12 Rules of Life
    by Vox Day.

    So, I finished the book and took a reasonable amount of notes, although considerably fewer than I would have anticipated. This is not my review, which I’ll probably post on Monday, merely a list of things I noted directly from the book rather than from interviews, videos, or statements by his fans or detractors.

    12 Things I learned from reading 12 Rules for Life: A Darkstream
    Jordan Peterson is doing philosophy and religion, not psychology or science.
    Jordan Peterson is a gamma male and a physical coward
    Jordan Peterson is a man who is psychologically scarred by tragedy. This is probably why he believes both life and evil are primarily defined by suffering. He has really suffered and he genuinely merits an amount of pity.
    Jordan Peterson is not a man of the Right
    Jordan Peterson is not a Christian
    Jordan Peterson does not understand evil
    Jordan Peterson doesn’t entirely believe in individual responsibility.
    Jordan Peterson does not know what chaos is.
    Jordan Peterson does not follow his own advice.
    Jordan Peterson does not have a good grasp of either science or history.
    Jordan Peterson’s perspective is shaped by Holocaustianity.
    Jordan Peterson is a moderate who worships balance.
    UPDATE: Link to video added.

    Genetic fallacy and fallacy of irrelevance in play….

  63. Boulderhead
    Then burntout, married “the one” and adopted her belief systems a Christian literalist if you will.

    One more bit of evidence that a man can be a PUA but not fully “get it”. He can see lots of girls but not see them through The Glasses. IMO both Roosh and Mystery are still stuck with bad vision to some degree, based on their public appearances in the last few years.

    Depending on which flavor of Christian literalist he’s joined, frivorce may be mostly off of the table. But she’s still a girl, as they all are, and his PUA Game wasn’t calibrated to deal with LTR / marriage; plates are not wives, although some of them probably want to be. He probably needs one of Rollo’s books placed in his hands.

    To tie back to Rollo’s OP, churchgoing women are just girls, they are superstitious in their own way. The more literalist won’t go down the Goddess rabbit trail per se, but they will claim that “God told me….” when what is really speaking is their rationalization hamster. Or they’ll get the Really Important Sincere Book of the month, often by some woman preacher, and bring that into the house. Rachel Held Evens is one such, and she’s rising up in the Southern Baptist leadership just fine in part due to the whole #ChurchToo tide. Or “Bible Codes” stuff, or the latest charismatic preacher or etc.

    Women are superstitious. They need some direction. If they don’t get it, they’ll make up a direction.

  64. a=F/m. It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not, it’s the law.

    Only in the lab, under carefully-controlled conditions….outside the lab, it’s more of a suggestion.

  65. This has been one of the better more substantive discussions in the comboxes here for a long time.

  66. Breaker Morant’s “Rule 303.”

    Non sequitur:

    I had an embarrassing moment last fall when I told my daughter’s boyfriend (now fiance) I could set him up with a deer hunting rifle for his first deer hunt with a skilled buddy (former military). Him and his buddy drove out to sight the rifle in at my farm, days before departing to hunting camp. Stupid, forgetful me, I had a Swiss K-55 rifle which I had attached a scope mount and scope to 10 years ago. I didn’t recall correctly/was distracted by life/wasn’t mindful like usual and tried to chamber British .303 hunting rounds (which can have expansive hunting tips) Rifling twist‎: ‎254 mm (1-10 in) Case length‎: ‎56.44 mm (2.222 in)Bullet diameter‎: ‎7.92 mm (0.312 in) Case capacity‎: ‎3.64 cm3 (56.2 gr H2O)

    Well I’ll be damned if they didn’t chamber at all. Shit. Turns out the rifle was supposed to digest Swiss 7.5 Swiss Ammo (and there are not hunting tips available, just FMJ.) (Rifling twist‎: ‎270 mm (1 in 10.63 in)Case length‎: ‎55.60 mm (2.189 in) Bullet diameter‎: ‎7.78 mm (0.306 in) Rim diameter‎: ‎12.65 mm (0.498 in)

    I was embarrassed and in-a-pickle as future father-in-law looking clinically retarded. We regrouped to my clubhouse and I waded mentally through some options. I didn’t want him to go out and buy a rifle just yet, esp. because of my logistic fuck up. Luckily I spotted an AR-15 varmint rifle I had manufactured around a lower receiver with a match grade trigger and 24″ bull barrel stainless steel upper. Not exactly masculine legit caliber (.223) for deer hunting, but it was to only workable solution I had to work with.

    I took him out back and he punched some 1″ groups into the bulls eye at 100 yards in his first try. He took it hunting and ethically harvested his first deer. And enjoyed the time with his buddy.

    Peacetime, 1st world problems, masculine speed bumps trying to improve the minds of the mid 20’s y.o. boy generation.

  67. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GEb9r8aqVQ

    Eyewitness account:

    “The only reply given by the two men when asked if they were ready was, ‘Yes, where is your shooting party?’ and the men marched out hand in hand.

    The firing party went to blindfold the men, but Morant said, ‘Take this thing off,’ and pulled the handkerchief off. As the two sat in the chair awaiting death Morant remarked, ‘Be sure and make a good job of it.’ Morant folded his arms across his chest and looked them straight in the face. The firing-party fired, and Morant got all in the left side, and died at once. With his arms folded and his eyes open, you would have thought he was alive.” — J. H. Morrow, warder of the Pretoria Gaol

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Witton

    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400611.txt

    “At six a hamper was sent in containing a nicely got-up
    dinner for four. We laid it out in my cell, but it was scarcely touched.
    After the awful events of the day we had no relish for a feast. It was
    the last meal that two of the company would partake of in this world.
    Morant remarked, “Not to be blasphemous, lads; but this is ‘The Last
    Supper.'” At seven two warders came to lock up for the night. At the
    request of Morant, he and Handcock were allowed to pass their last night
    on earth together. At the last moment I bade Morant good-bye. He said,
    “It’s hard lines and a sideways ending, thus being sacrificed as an
    atonement to pro-Boer sentiments. Good-bye, Witton; tell the ‘Bulletin’
    people ‘The Breaker’ will write no more verse for them; I’m going into
    ‘laager’ in the morning.”

    Morant spent most of the night writing, and then wrote his last verse

    In prison cell I sadly sit,
    A d–d crestfallen chappy,
    And own to you I feel a bit–
    A little bit–unhappy.

    It really ain’t the place nor time
    To reel off rhyming diction;
    But yet we’ll write a final rhyme
    While waiting crucifixion.

    No matter what “end” they decide–
    Quick-lime? or “b’iling ile?” sir–
    We’ll do our best when crucified
    To finish off in style, sir?

    But we bequeath a parting tip
    For sound advice of such men
    Who come across in transport ship
    To polish off the Dutchmen.

    If you encounter any Boers
    You really must not loot ’em,
    And, if you wish to leave these shores,
    For pity’s sake, don’t shoot ’em.

    And if you’d earn a D.S.O.,
    Why every British sinner
    Should know the proper way to go
    Is: Ask the Boer to dinner.

    Let’s toss a bumper down our throat
    Before we pass to heaven,
    And toast: “The trim-set petticoat
    We leave behind in Devon.”

    At five the next morning, 27th February, I was roused by a warder, who
    informed me that an escort was waiting for me as soon as I was ready. I
    asked permission to say good-bye to Morant and Handcock. I was allowed to
    see them only through the small trap-door. I clasped their hands through
    this for the last time, and could scarcely stammer a good-bye. I was more
    unnerved at the thought of their hateful death than they were themselves.
    They were calmly prepared to meet their death, as they often had been
    before at times during the war.”

    Matthew 10:36

    “And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.”

  68. ” Peacetime, 1st world problems, masculine speed bumps trying to improve the minds of the mid 20’s y.o. boy generation.”

    Fighting a different battle.

  69. A love some good chick crack. A females natural naivete when it comes to the spiritual or the taboo is cute to me. I use a variation of palm reading that I learned from reading “The Game” that all women fall for.

    I used it on a girlfriend once, we were talking about something that I forget but I saw it as a good segue to this bit.

    I told her about the head, the heart, the soul and the fate lines in your palms. Then I told her that based off the way two intersected I could tell she loved animals. While looking at her hand with awe on her face she whispered “omg”. I almost cracked up right then and there but I love when they realize I was fucking with them at the end so I continue. “Do you see how it lines up with your fate line? Do you know what that tells me?” At this point they always have a look of wild eyed astonishment on their face. Then I say,” You’re going to be a cat lady.” Then the other shoe drops and I laugh and laugh.

    Moral is if you don’t have some good chick crack in your arsenal you’re missing out on many laughs and many tingles. I even told that story to another girl and I could tell by her face she knew she would have fallen for it too, perhaps jealous she didn’t have the chance to? Who knows.

  70. @Tiberius
    I seem to recall “What’s your sign?” — circa 1965 — being an early version of this technique

  71. Roused
    Does anyone seriously think young men are going to attend a JP lecture and then think this: “Wow, Jordan Peterson really puts women on a pedestal.” Dang, JP needs to be careful because his take on the Feminine Imperative is really dangerous.”

    Nope. Nobody’s said that.

    Young men are prone to accept something they are told by an authority figure like JBP uncritically. They swallow it whole. They idolize “Jordy” and unthinkingly hang on every word. Including the blue pill pedestalization.

    There’s a problem. Do you see it?

  72. kfg just reminded me it’s time to re-read “Boer Commando” by Denys Rhys. He was at Ladysmith and Spion Kop, among other places.

    Fun fact: the first enclosures to be actually named “Concentration Camps” were built in south Africa at the orders of Lord Kitchener to imprison the white African women, children and some men of the Boer republics. It was an attempt to “drain the sea” that the Boer guerrillas swam in. Many died in the concentration camps of disease and malnutrition. Merely an historical footnote now. Just goes to show that minding your own business isn’t always very good protection.

  73. Police chiefs toe the liberal party line of gun control. They are politicians and have to do that. The rank and file law enforcement are pro-2nd amendment, by and large. I used to work gun shows and there were plenty of law enforcement there providing security and selling guns on tables at the show. You didn’t see a lot of thugs at the shows.

  74. As the receptive sex, women naturally desire to be desired. When it gets out of hand it turns into a desire to be worshipped.

    Eve was tempted in the garden with the Big Con that she could be like God.

    Men as the injective sex have to choose who we worship. So much blue-pill folly comes from worshipping women.

    Adam worshipped Eve over God when he followed her into disobedience.

    ****

    Now, what in the hell good can possibly come from attaching yourself to someone like Asia Argento who worships herself.

    She will eventually crush you with the power you yourself have given her.

  75. ” You didn’t see a lot of thugs at the shows.”

    Depends on just how narrowly one defines ” thugs “.

    Meh, it depends – as to ” most ” rank and file cops being pro 2nd.

    I once had police knock on my door because gunshots were ” heard ” in the back yard of the place I was living. I invited the police in, and they asked me some questions, one of which was ” do you have any firearms on the premise?”. When I answered in the affirmative, the mood immediately changed as If I’d admitted to having a nuclear warhead in the pillows of my couch.

    I explained that I was a registered gun owner. They were not satisfied. They asked to ” see ” the gun, and as they did so 2 officers drew their firearms and pointed them in my general direction. I refused the demand and was threatened that a search warrant could be obtained.

    To which I replied ” go right ahead “.

    They asked ” what kind of gun is it?” and I told them .45 – 2 of them. Then I told them that they could look it up if they wanted to know more.

    Then one of the officers said ” well, we could just take you and the guns ” and I picked up the phone and asked them ” should I call my lawyer now or later?”.

    After a few tense minutes, one officer opened a closet and shined his flashlight around. Another casually walked around the apartment, looking behind furniture and under the bed.

    Then one officer asked the other, ” You wanna run his ass in?” – to which I interjected ” on what charge?”. ” You look like an arrest resistor if I ever saw one..” was the reply I got back.

    So I picked up the phone and called my lawyer( friend of the family ), and the police left when they heard me recounting the scenario to him over the phone. I was instructed to get badge numbers and names, but when I asked the cops as they headed downstairs, I was told ” It’s in your best fucking interest to drop this shit right now “.

    It depends on how one defines ” thugs “.

    Conversely, when I lived in rural Virginia, I was stopped during a road block looking for escaped convicts from a nearby prison, and I had a loaded .38 on the front seat next to me. A trooper asked for my paperwork and asked nicely if I minded opening my trunk for a second ( as everyone ahead of me were doing ). Then he handed me my papers back and asked me if I was certain that the safety was on. Then I went on my way.

    ( Oddly that same year, I was stopped in a road check by another trooper, who pulled me over out of traffic because I had a pair of nunchakas draped over my front seat. Nunchakas, according to the officer, had recently been deemed ” deadly weapons ” and illegal. He even showed me the staute. He asked me ” could you kill a man with those sticks?”, lol, and I answered ” I guess so, but it would take a while “.

    He said he wasn’t sure of what he should do, and he wasn’t going to confiscate them – just don’t drive around with them anymore, and he asked me to show him how they ” work “, and I gave him a quick demo and he belly laughed and sent me on my way. )

  76. “There’s a problem. Do you see it?“

    Perhaps a small problem. I really don’t see it in the real world. I know a young man or two and none of them idolize JP.

    Please provide some data on this idolatry going on.

    I do see now, and have in the last several years how boys have been indoctrinated by TV, ESPN (Disney) movies, video games, teachers, sisters and their mothers. IMO each of those things have a larger impact than JP. Collectively, it’s an avalanche.

    You’re giving a “bogeyman” more credence than is earned.

  77. …and I had a loaded .38 on the front seat next to me. A trooper asked for my paperwork and asked nicely if I minded opening my trunk for a second ( as everyone ahead of me were doing ). Then he handed me my papers back and asked me if I was certain that the safety was on….

    .38 special revolver? who makes safeties on those? I thought the safety on a revolver was between the ears?

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