No Prescriptions

On Saturday I had a great discussion with Anthony Johnson, Rian Stone (Married Red Pill Reddit) and “Carl” from Black Label Logic. The topic was a critique of the impact Dr. Jordan Peterson is having on a society of ‘lost’ (mostly) young men and how his message is affecting this generally rudderless generation of men. It’s a little over two hours long, but from the overwhelming response on YouTube, Facebook, Reddit and other forums it’s definitely struck a nerve. As an aside here, I’m considering making this meet up video format something I may do semi-regularly (like every other week) with some of the men I consider peers in the manosphere.

You can watch this talk at your leisure, but it has taught me a few things. As I mentioned in the chat it’s next to impossible to have any disagreement or critique of people whom other’s believe are your betters. As Rollo Tomassi it’s impossible for me to be critical of any high profile guy in the sphere without the accusations of professional jealousy or sour grapes being the first reflexive response from haters. I got that, but I’ve learned the conversation is more important that trying to convince anyone of it being genuine. In fact, I think it belies a bigger problem when they are above critique.

That aside, I think it was good to finally parse where Red Pill awareness and what Peterson is advocating have some overlap and where we differ. Peterson is a fountain of hope for the ‘lost’ boys, so anything critical of his message is going to sound like it’s endorsing an “enjoy the decline” mentality. I can’t expect everyone to have read up on my own opinion about that, but the short version is that I’ve never been convinced of some inevitable decline and fall of western civilization. In other words, I think it is possible to turn the ship around; where I may differ is in how that might be done.

For the record here I want to say that I have a great respect for Dr. Peterson. I think he’s what the sphere has needed for a while and I think he fits the role of ‘champion’ that a generation of young men have wanted to place on someone. Ideologically I agree with about 85-90% of what he advocates and there’s no doubt that he’s got definite skin in the game. In fact I really hate it when people use that as some catch phrase to disqualify men today. As a man we all have skin in the game now. How much and to what degree may be debatable, but we all live in a feminine-primary social order and as such we all have a lot to risk whether we acknowledge this or not.

Where I differ with Peterson is in his very Trad-Con solutions to turning the ship around. I wasn’t shocked to see him endorsed in videos for Prager University. In some ways what he proposes resonates with young men looking for a direction because their fathers and generations of Blue Pill men haven’t been able to deliver a way out of Hell for them. I go into this in more detail in our talk here, but here are some of my issues with Peterson’s take on things:

• Life is suffering and sacrifice: In every video I’ve watched Dr. Peterson’s founding (zen-like) premise is that life is suffering and the best men can do is to find ways to minimize that suffering. Men (and I’ve yet to see a video addressing women) must sacrifice parts or all of themselves in order to qualify for “genuine” manhood. The degree of that self-sacrifice is relative to how high a status that man can achieve.

I fundamentally disagree with this premise though I do understand why it’s so appealing to a ‘lost generation’ of young men. From my own perspective, life is based on a perpetual discontent, but how a man deals with that discontent – creatively or destructively – is the measure of him. Furthermore, I would argue that women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make in order to facilitate their reality.

• Blue Pill conditioning seems to define his perspective of women: Essentially the archetype he has for women was formed for him as a 7 year old boy when he first developed a soul-mate ONEitis for his wife. His reluctance to acknowledge the Alpha Fucks side of women’s Hypergamy in any video (beyond his repeated use of 50 Shades of Grey as a humorous example) leads me to the impression that he defaults to women as innately ‘good’ and above too much criticism. As such he focuses almost entirely on the good provider / parental investment / Beta need side of Hypergamy. This is unsurprising as it follows the same Trad-Con interpretations of women being “closer to God than men” and men must qualify themselves, and sacrifice themselves for women’s (wives) intimate approval. Dalrock has covered this dynamic among male “complementarian” Christian leaders quite extensively.

• Sacrifice of men is a parallel to men’s disposability: Men will blow themselves up for pussy. From what I gather from his talks Peterson endorses male disposability as a form of Honor. He seems to play on the ‘Man Up / Shut Up’ dynamic I talked about in The Honor SystemWhat ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny. I’m not suggesting Peterson is accusing men of Patriarchy or Misogyny, rather, like most Trad-Cons, it’s a question of living up to one’s duty as a man in his disposability and his usefulness in that sacrifice.

• “Get your shit together” is also a plea for sacrifice: If a man is less valuable his sacrifice is less meaningful. No one cares about mediocre / average men’s sacrifices, but if a man accepts that he is to improve himself it is so that his sacrifice is more appreciated and important. Thus, the comparisons to Christ’s sacrifice as being the ultimate expression of sacrifice and meaning which Peterson uses in his dissertations on manhood and the Bible. My issue here is that women and a feminine-primary social order lack a capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make because these are taken-for-granted expectations of what a man just “ought to do”.

• Peterson is egalitarian to a fault: The mantra may be for men to sack up and make something of themselves, but this is couched in an egalitarian equalism that’s prevalent today. If I had one question to ask Jordan it would be this; is there a dominance hierarchy in a healthy LTR or marriage? I don’t know for certain. My guess is he would say it passes back and forth between a husband and wife which is to say he falls back on an egalitarian ideal. However, outside the family structure he acknowledges that men and women in a state of egalitarianism choose to adopt traditional gender roles (I think he gave the same example as was covered here).

• Dr. Peterson regularly resorts to shaming language with men, rarely does he do the same with women: This may be a simple question of his delivery, but Peterson is always harder on men than he is with women. In so doing he adopts the AMOGing of only men techniques that a pastor like Mark Driscoll uses from the pulpit. Inso doing he pedestalizes women and absolves them of any consequences of their Hypergamous choices by imploring men to “man up and marry those sluts“. In essence the sacrificial nature of men becomes one that is necessary for the continuance of ‘family’ and western culture in spite of women. I also see how this plays into the idea of women lacking any moral agency, personal responsibility and wiping the bad behavior of women off on the men who have allowed this to happen. Once again it comes back to the hypoagency of women.

• Peterson believes that desire can be negotiated: This is my biggest problem with Peterson’s approach to women. This undoubtedly comes from his being a clinical psychologist, but like most therapists he defaults to the idea that genuine desire can be motivated by a process of negotiation. If there is one example of his lack of experience with women it is this belief. In several of his interviews and podcasts he makes reference to appealing to women’s reason and negotiating terms for acceptable behavior (always a man’s behavior) in exchange for intimacy and/or a stress-free marriage. This is the egalitarian, Oprah Approved, male-sublimated means to achieving transactional intimacy.

As you might guess, I strongly disagree with negotiating intimacy. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. You can obligate a woman to fuck you (now called rape) via negotiation, but you cannot organically inspire genuine desire in a woman. This has always been my main point of contention with the marriage counseling trade for a long time.

What is the Red Pill version of “man-up”?

I had a commenter ask me this in the last comment thread. I think there’s two sides to this question. First, I think there’s a need to keep the Red Pill (in the intersexual sense) as close to an objectivist purpose as possible. That means Red Pill awareness is the result of a continuing praxeology.

I’ve locked horns with a few Red Pill guys recently who seem to think that ‘Red Pill’ is an ideology and it’s just the counter revolt to feminism; basically it is feminism for men. I think that does a huge disservice to everything and everyone that’s brought us to where we are today in Red Pill awareness and all of the work and personal risk that was put on the line to explore what we know as Red Pill awareness now. Not only that it casually devalues the effort and work that’s continuing right now.

Critics and feminists alike want to draw parallels in the manosphere to whatever (fictitious) wave of feminism they think applies to whatever the Men’s Rights Movement is calling Red Pill at the moment. Believing that Red Pill is an ideology is one more casualty of how the term / brand has been bastardized by other ideologies who’ve never had any business referring to themselves as “red pill”.

Presuming Red Pill is just an ideology is juvenile, and unsurprisingly it’s an opinion of some underexperienced men in the manosphere who want for simplistic answers. They don’t want to think about what Red Pill awareness implies on a larger social scale. They want a flag to wave and an easy to understand ideology so they can stick it to their feminist enemies. I get it. They want Red Pill (however they define it) to be that ideology, but to me, I think, and I’ve always said it, the Red Pill needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, areligious and amoral to ensure that it stays true to understanding truth. It needs to remain true to being an aggregate of men’s collected experiences with intersexual dynamics.

What these guys want is a meaning to that truth, but that’s not the Red Pill. Meaning is what men will apply to that truth according to their individual needs, situations and circumstances. This is why Peterson and probably some more personalities to follow him will be popular in the future; they prioritize meaning above truth. If you listen to the first podcast of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson they spend the entire time trying to come to an agreed measure of truth between the two of them so they can move on (in the second podcast) to what is meaning.

You want to know why I don’t do prescriptions on The Rational Male? Because we disempower ourselves when we follow someone else’s path and not our own.

There is a deep need in almost all people to improve or ‘fix’ ourselves in some way. I’ve written essays about it; discontent is is the human condition. That in no way means that life is suffering as per the Peterson (Zen) doctrine, but it is man’s condition to never be satisfied with even the greatest of accomplishments. That is what put us at the top of the species contest on this planet. You can be constructively or destructively discontent, but when you tell me that life is suffering and the only way to lessen that suffering (never to solve it of course) is to sacrifice my way to a better life all that says to me is that you’re out of ideas for a creative solution and you’re all-in on the destructive methods. Either that or you’ll continue naval gazing.

Fuck that.

So, the Red Pill needs to remain a praxeology and it ought to always resist being force-fit into an ideology because it’s always some ideological hack who wants to claim the truth it reveals as proof of his own purpose. The Red Pill has to remain an open source aggregate of men’s experiences. That’s why we’re still here today in spite of the Rooshs who said it would die out 3 years ago – it’s open source and decentralized information.

Now, to the second point, what does ‘Man up’ mean in the Red Pill context? I think this is really for the individual to decide, but I’d say that it would involve a man utilizing and internalizing the awareness the Red Pill represents to him and improving his life with it. In the Safety Net post’s comment thread there are hundreds of examples of how men saved their own lives, often literally. How the Red Pill truth reached them and then manifested in their lives is highly individual. I mentioned the need for a dissociation with ideology because that usually means aligning oneself with the expectations of someone else’s version of truth, not the objective (or as objective as we can make it) truth of the Red Pill.

When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?

It should, because in almost all contexts imploring a guy to “Man Up” is following someone else’s path, not your own. This is what I mean when I say that I’m not in the business of creating better men, I’m in the business of men making themselves better men. And in today’s world of men seeking direction there is no shortage of personalities who’d like nothing more than to profit from selling men on their paths.

If there is a definition of ‘manning up’ in a Red Pill sense it is living a better way than your previous life that was informed by the falsehoods of your Blue Pill conditioning. Manning up Red Pill is killing off that old Blue Pill-created persona and killing off the false idealisms it taught you. It’s understanding and internalizing that those lies made you a less authentic person because the Blue Pill is firmly an ideology, but one that wears the mask of freedom or choice or individualism. If self-improvement in a Red Pill sense entail some basic tenets, one is that a man cuts himself away from that old Blue Pill paradigm and rebuilds a better life for himself based on a real understanding of intersexual truth on the personal, social and political scales.

Manning up Red Pill begins with rejecting the lies of egalitarian equalism and a commitment to real objective understanding of intersexual dynamics.

 

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

725 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

@Rollo – that Roosh piece is chilling. None of it is new (now in 2018), but it’s written very well. Probably the best thing he’s ever written.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Culum At the risk of incurring wrath, lol, when I was in my teens older women were a staple. By ” older ” they were in the vaunted 19-25 year old category. A whole bunch of them, as I was an extremely horny young man. I started approaching women in their 30’s and 40’s at first, just to see how successful I could be at it. Like you say, they only had to pass the boner test ( quite a few hb9’s I’d dealt with were unsatisfactory in bed, much to my chagrin.). Then I got married at 24… Read more »

toxicphilosophy
4 years ago

Regardless of how right or wrong Dr. Peterson is, there are two things that I appreciate about him: 1. He is a role model for acting with integrity in an extremely feminist environment. Walking the fine line between being true to yourself and being exposing yourself so much that you get unanimously ostracized is no easy feat. 2. Validating my Red Pill beliefs. I recently started deconstructing my view of the world, wondering whether my Red Pill perspective was just another ideology, assumed as an angry reaction to the failure of my previous, Blue Pill, ideology. In theory, one can… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

I agree with that. I don’t think youth correlates with better lays or easier to handle. It correlates with *youth*, which (other things being equal) probably means more physically attractive. But of course, other things are not usually equal and it depends on the person. How good the sex is entirely a different point and is not age correlated – more to do with the chemistry between you and her etc. One of “my” 19 year olds was probably close to the worst sex in my life, even though she is probably the hottest or second hottest girl I’ve banged… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Blax I’ve run in to the young ones taking less effort if you’re just out to get laid. Seems like all the 30s are just pissed you’ve got no interest in settling down. “Wait, you’re hot, you’re in shape, you’re making bank, you’re not putting up with my shit, you’re funny, and you’re smart. I thought I didn’t have to put out for that now!” She wants to consolidate, not fuck. https://giphy.com/embed/AZemObXVMo4mY Get in to the 40s and beyond and they’ve accepted they waited too late and they’re DTF again and it gets easy. There’s just a lotta denial going… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

Actually I probably just need to get better at playing hide the money and just look like a scrubby fuck. Maybe rent a place by the hour to bang them in.

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

@Rollo,

You found the smoking gun. Yep, BP all the way.

Still, I don’t care what he thinks about intersexual dynamics.

And he may be making a good living doing what he does – but then, why shouldn’t he? Especially if he loses his job. That isn’t any less of a reliable motive than ego gratification, IMO.

Just Beers
Just Beers
4 years ago

“Men test ideas, women test men.”

JBP has no illusions that women and men are the same.

As far as TRM being focused on women, it most certainly is, because everything about it is intersexual dynamics.

In a way it does feed the feminist pendulum, even if it is not a reaction to it per se.

In any case as Blaximus has often said, there is more than one red pill (truth), and JPB is living one of them, certainly.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong – yes, absolutely. Technically speaking it’s a slightly different point (it’s about her attraction/intentions towards you vs your attraction to her) I’m a couple years younger than you and I’ve run across the same issue. Blackdragon’s written about this a lot. I agree with his analysis of the issue but don’t agree that actually doing it is as hard as he makes out. I find you CAN bang the older ones too, and you don’t even have to hide the money (although that will probably help). The main thing is you directly and obviously need to come across… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sun ” Actually I probably just need to get better at playing hide the money and just look like a scrubby fuck. Maybe rent a place by the hour to bang them in.” Lol, but you are kinda on to something. Even though I didn’t bang a 20 year old HB8-9 yesterday ( in before somebody says it ), I’m curious when I am talking/flirting whatever, with them to try to discern 1) Why is she talking to me? Is she just being nice, or killing time or something? and 2) could I bang her, like now or very… Read more »

Just Beers
Just Beers
4 years ago

@Sun

I agree I’ve enjoyed the late 30s through 45 set quite a bit. Agree with your assessment that they bullshit a lot less and we all know the score. It’s as if life has negged them for us, and they eat up the comfort.

And for those women who are bitter harpies at that point, why, let them become unlovable crones. They are responsible for their outcomes.

Sundawner
Sundawner
4 years ago

JBP is an interesting guy. Rollo and JBP are top 5 people that had an impact on my life, especially since my break up with a BPD that zeroed me out. He is very open to new ideas and just curious person in general. I have seen his lectures in person and reading his book right now. Hands down best lecturer I have seen in my life. Just want to share some thoughts. It is hard to nail down what JBP thinks on some topics and issues he has hard stance on. The free speech issue is one of the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Culum Interesting, the chemistry thing. Over the years, I’ve begun to believe that most men and women never experience ” chemistry ” on any big level. Just from talking to my male friends over many years, if we start talking sex and our sex lives, I usually wind up having guys just staring at me, laughing, or telling me I was absolutely full of shit. My first wife, we just could not keep our hands off of each other. Once, I came into work on a Monday morning tired AF, and my coworker asked wtf was I doing that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Let me get back on topic. I started listening to JBP here first, at TRM, as various videos were posted over the years. Only recently have I started listening to his stuff in earnest. I never really looked at whether he was RP or BP for the most part, as I just agreed with most of what he said, disagreed with some of it, and thought that he could use a little more perspective on some topics – but there’s no arguing his intellectual chops. Overall, I dig listening to him. But Rollo hit on something in the 21 video.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Rollo Just a thought from my perspective. You mentioned guys in some countries having and Arab Spring, or joining ISIS, and the ” Lost Boys ” seeking out the manosphere. The reason that Gangs – Bloods and Crips – are so stubborn, and hard to eradicate, is for the same reasons that we see Arab Springs and young men joining ISIS. Nova and Sun kind of touched on a piece of something that made me think a bit, Why isn’t the average American young man in a Gang or committing crimes? The standard answers are lacking – that some… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

I like the 21 discussion, even though I’m breaking it into parts.

Novaseeker
4 years ago

In Peterson’s case I’d have to assume the position of Ya Really and also present the concrete studies. However, ultimately I don’t think I’d change his mid on anything because it’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it. JBP is well into the process of building himself an online public persona/brand and he’s delivering what the lost boys want and making good money doing so. There’s not much hope in swaying him to Red Pill awareness when the incentive is easier to just blow it Rollo — Yes. which is… Read more »

GFreak34
GFreak34
4 years ago

JBP earlier today posted on his Facebook page that he has noticed more women showing up at his talks than ever before. He still has yet to criticize women for their part in the downfall of a generation of men. It seems as if he is still covering for women and I doubt even with a larger audience of women that he will entertain that discussion. I’ve never really commented here but , so I suppose I’ll mention a bit about my life situation. My RP journey isn’t unique by any measure. My dad was definitely alpha, but worked 70+… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Blax

Yeah sex all night was the last young chick I hooked up with. First night we bang like two or three times I pass out, she keeps waking me up. By the next afternoon I looked back and realized we’d fucked 9 timesin the course of maybe 16 hours. I’d never done that much just because most chicks start whining about being tired at 3 or 4.

Never under estimate the power of chemistry to result in insane fuckfests. Good shit.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

“I’m not sure JBP would accept the research on Ovulatory Shift as a foundational premise of Hypergamy to the degree I’ve put it in. In fact I think accepting a true estrus in women would force him to acknowledge the Alpha Fucks side and down the rabit hole he’d have to go.”

Not just any rabbits. Crazy Acid Rabbits.

Roused
Roused
4 years ago

kfg
February 13, 2018 at 7:50 am
“maybe they should have blown up more stuff as kids. they’d see exactly what kind of actions boys with lighters can initiate”

I still have the plastic army truck and cannon that my father gave me for my first birthday. None of the Bag O’ Hundred Army Men that came with it lived past my 12th.

Those junior high chemistry sets were gateways to other fun stuff.

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

JP has some good advice and i’m glad that he’s going for it, but he doesn’t strike me as a man who has had much experience of fucking the living shit out of any woman. Nor is he the kind of man who women would really desire. He also doesn’t seem to have much of a sense of humour, and almost seems a bit Aspergy. And those points, gentlemen, are a big difference between Alpha & Beta…

Joe Ego
4 years ago

I’ve been reading here and related sites for several years. I’ve been watching JBP vids on & off for the past year. I believe Jordan’s perspective is fundamentally male. Mostly because he is unable to think like a woman but also because solipsism generally serves a man and his society poorly. I take JBP’s “life is suffering” and sacrifice/”man up” statements differently than Rollo. The meaning of life is not to suffer, but life is fundamentally suffering. If you do nothing then you suffer from circumstances and at the hands of others. This implies you should sacrifice to improve your… Read more »

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

But having said all that, i love the way he gets into SJW’s and such trash. He just needs to swallow the Red Pill, and cut completely loose down the track…

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

@ status confirmed “Speaking of which, any of you guys mid-40’s and later notice a drop off in activity like Rollo’s SMV chart might suggest? That chart has been on the money for me. Between 32 and 40, I had an easy time getting women interested. It was better than college for me. Nowadays, it’s drying up. Maybe it’s a slump, but it may be my prime has come to an end…” I had a very good run up until just recently (51 now), though i have had a summer pretty much of solitude in a very remote place, so… Read more »

Dionysus
Dionysus
4 years ago

For what it’s worth if I had to place a reasonable sized bet right now I’d wager JBP’s omissions are calculated. I think he’s looked at the abyss and knows exactly what’s there. He has crafted his message to make sure not to completely shatter his patients and keep the gravy train rolling – just far away enough from the mainstream to be considered closer to the the truth but not far away enough to be considered ‘conspiratorial’ (as a lot of the RP/Manosphere would look to the AFC) For reference I leave the following link which I recently came… Read more »

ShanksNes (@ShanksNes)

Great post. To be honest, i didn’t think this would ever be written; That we would get here. So much cacophony – Redpill is traditionalism. Redpill is MRA/ex-feminist documentaries. Redpill is evolution denying neo-masculine movements with greek busts as profile pics. Redpill is red hats and alt-right. Or alt-lite. Or whatever the fuck you want it to be. Redpill is self-help. It is saving the western civilization. Except that these groups always conveniently forget about one thing – the biological underpinnings of hypergamy. Women are this way because – feminism, Left wing ‘neo-marxism’, deviance from Christianity etc. All we have… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Dionysus
February 14, 2018 at 1:20 am

What Zman misses is that Peterson is not arguing from authority. He is arguing from biology.

A whole different animal.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@ShanksNes: Great comment. 100% Agree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzMd328bMw @M Simon: Arguing from authority: “Man-Up”, “Clean your room”, “be responsible”. This is the right way … look at the lobster … look at Jesus. Arguing from Biology: “You’re either hot, or you are not; And if you are not, women won’t fuck you. No matter what you do, what you try – women still won’t fuck you, and if they do, it will come back to bite you. And they don’t give a fuck about your virtue either. Knowing this will prevent harm and if you act, if you take action (workout, game… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Off topic. I gotta track down the nyt article, but it says the US birthrate fell by over 100,000 compared to previous year, and people are self reporting less sex. The number of people not engaging in sex for 12 months has risen(?). Marriage is delayed ( we knew that ) yet women 40+ birthrates have risen.

Strange Days.

M Simon
4 years ago

Incubus_Rising
February 14, 2018 at 4:42 am

I have learned a lot of biology listening to Peterson. YMMV.

My general attitude is to ignore prescriptions. So that part of his delivery does not affect me. Further – I generally try to break the rules. To see what actually happens.

====

What I get from your comment is that you listen to see what rules he promulgates.
I listen to see what facts he offers. Because even if you want the rules – they must be based on facts to be useful.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Blaximus: “I am a proponent of all men ” manning up “, but Peterson’s definition is foreign to my ears.” That is why I stirred the pot to bring that particularly chunky bit of the stew to the surface. I knew that the OMGs and YSGs were talking past each other in different languages that sound the same, but are very different indeed. @ShanksNes: “Redpill is self-help. It is saving the western civilization.” Red Pill is the rules of the game. I could just as easily use those rules to lead a barbarian horde in the sacking of Western Civilization.… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

And in honor of the day:

Roses Are #FF0000
Violets Are #0000FF
All My Base
Are Belong To You.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269295/hating-valentines-jamie-glazov#comment-3757564362

M Simon
4 years ago

Did The Bigot Who “Painted” Obama’s Portrait Stick A Giant Sperm On His Forehead?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-13/did-bigot-who-painted-obamas-portrait-stick-giant-sperm-his-forehead

Pictures and analysis. LOL.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@M Simon

“Did The Bigot Who “Painted” Obama’s Portrait Stick A Giant Sperm On His Forehead?”

That’s the antenna he’s been using to spy on your phone conversations.

Novaseeker
4 years ago

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/963154195476922369

Just so people know what is being discussed …

marelius
marelius
4 years ago

@ Boulderhead – That bloody rabbit hole is huge! huge huge huge huge huge huge huge

AND the rabbit died…its dead rabbits all the way down…

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Hazel died well:

M Simon
4 years ago

Yollo Comanche
February 14, 2018 at 6:18 am

It doesn’t look very isotropic to me. And the wavelength seems incorrect.

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
4 years ago

“Off topic. I gotta track down the nyt article, but it says the US birthrate fell by over 100,000 compared to previous year, and people are self reporting less sex. The number of people not engaging in sex for 12 months has risen(?). Marriage is delayed ( we knew that ) yet women 40+ birthrates have risen.” Sounds about right, especially the 40+ births as their window closes and they go down the IVF, Sperm Donor, etc. Sex is down among young males, we are witnessing real time the transition over to full AF 80/20 sex only. Interesting times, young… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Q: How do you get men to invest in a system?
A: Offer a return.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Q: What is Watership Down about?

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@kfg

Watership down is about anthro-rabbits believing in their rabbit god and killing/thinking their way to survival.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

why not just tell us kfg? not enough time to go on a research project

would still like to know how it applies to the topic, though

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@DrZipper

He’s probably going to go the Educating young male minds angle.

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“At 16:15 JBP reveals his inner negotiator.” the way he unquestioningly believes that “setting up” the rooms of your spot together will lead to “romantic sex” or some shit… fact: preponderence of the fucking I do happens outside of the bedroom there is no “beautiful lovemaking place” my wife and I have made together and if a girl has a bunch of pillows on her bed odds are she don’t want you spraying all over them this is the worst kind of disinfo because it is surrounded by otherwise goodish stuff so it makes sense to take his word for… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

@Joe . “I’ve never taken his talk of sacrifice to mean that I should make my goals secondary other’s goals on general principle. I’ve never taken his meaning to be that men are disposable in the end.

” Me either. If I have one criticism of Rollo’s analysis of JP, it’s around this concept of suffering. I think JP’s association with this concept is grounded in Christianity, not Zen. That would not make sense, because the Zen concept of suffering, and the path to addressing it, is not compatible with western mind, IMO. “Life is suffering” is a key idea in… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

Roses Are #FF0000
Violets Are #0000FF
All My Base
Are Belong To You.

Nice. I chuckled at that one. Some people may be too young to understand it though

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sun It’s actually refreshing to have a man understand the sexual chemistry thing. Women are spectacular, while simultaneously being unremarkable. Lol, how fucked up is my mind?😁 On several occasions I’ve had women burst into tears during sex. Any time that happened, I immediately freaked out, damn near panicked, and ended the action. I always asked what was wrong/going on, and I would get embraces and kisses, which only served to confuse me more. I’d never gotten an answer about the crying thing other than: me: what’s wrong? Are you okay? Her: nothing’s wrong. I’m fine. * hug kiss… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Mitch
February 14, 2018 at 7:29 am

Women seek out suffering. From a male. But it has to be calibrated. The right kind of suffering. The right kind of male. It then has to be concluded with comfort. So you can have another round.

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

rsd should have pooled their profits and opened a chain of nightclubs that doubled as research centers. not one single person would read the disclaimer and waivers on their entry receipts and if they did they wouldn’t care or even better it would become a thing to go be studied like a cheetah in heat they would have years and years of data by now and would have already been on the way to leading the industry in controlling for difficult variables and being able to understand what the data actually meant in a greater context but they were too… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

@Dionysus “I think he’s looked at the abyss and knows exactly what’s there. ” Definitely. @Incubus “And yes, Red Pill as a praxeology should only be about inter-sexual dynamics. Men who are looking for transcendent values should follow Dalia Lama, and not lurk in the Red Pill forums.” Dude, you cannot live your life on praxeology alone. Praxeology is the “how”, it says nothing about the “why.” You need both, and they can’t be considered independent of each other when talking about applying it to your life. Like why get married? Or not get married? Why indeed. You can’t make a… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

M Simon.

Lol! Nice interpolation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

But Dr.Z, it feels goooood to think.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Mitch

Last month my 20 year old washing machine started leaking when used, putting an unacceptable inch of water on my basement floor.

I understood why it had to be fixed, researched how to fix it, and made the parts replacements ( I’m too cheap to buy new anything I can refurbish or repair.. ).

Sometimes it’s more important to know the how so when confronted you can act/react. IRL the why usually isn’t an extenuating circumstance.

O.B.I.T.
O.B.I.T.
4 years ago

“If a girl has a bunch of pillows on her bed odds are she don’t want you spraying all over them.”
Another Fleezer gem — take it to the bank (or crochet it on a pillow)
Anyway, Happy V-Day …

https://youtu.be/QVYgoejO3ac

status confirmed
status confirmed
4 years ago

@Sentient, Lost Patrol, Sun Wukong, M Simon-

You guys are right. If my game is tired it’s because I’m not adjusting it and letting go of how it used to work, in favor of how it can work.

“A lot of people go through life never quite understanding that if things aren’t as wonderful as they should be, it’s their own fault.”- Hugh Hefner

Challenge accepted.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Fleezer is firing on all cylinders.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

“it feels goooood to think”

blax/yollo: I’m not short of thinking or effort or desire to learn… it’s time that’s a-wastin’ and I’m not one of the Young Males

I prefer direct statements of meaning and intent when interacting with men; especially those I’m trying to learn from; there’s already plenty of room for error in how we interpret each others’ contributions, why make it even more difficult?

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

rollo re: article…. something is full of shit… can’t see it yet, but I can smell it

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Status Confirmed

You want an example of a cool older guy frame?

Check out Brosnan in The Matador

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeY7MlJJOdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyoB7bjdzgE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siRyKdkjnOI

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

@ status confirmed

Also nothing wrong with taking a break, resting the horses and the men for awhile, change the scenery, recharge the batteries, etc. Then take up your burden of performance with renewed energy, a clear head, maybe a modified and refined plan of attack. It’s not going anywhere so you don’t have to get in a big hurry about it.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

From the article: “Women, it claims, feel reassured when they see their man unhappy. They believe that if the man allows them to see that he is upset – rather than withdraw – it shows he is committed to the relationship.”

I think they are trying to convey the idea that in order to make women feel comfortable, men should be more vulnerable and show their weakness. As we all know “in time nothing is more sexier”.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Q: What is Watership Down about? A: Watership Down is the story of the founding of Rome (from multiple sources). Hazel is Romulus. Fiver is a composite of Remus and Cassandra. Watership Down is Palatine Hill. The quest for does is the Rape of the Sabine Women. Although it is a rather rabbity Rome. One the things that makes Watership Down a bit special is that although it appears to be a fantasy, it is actually quite realistic. The rabbits are anthropomorphized, but only to the extent necessary to make the story accessible to humans. Adams tried, as much as… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@Drzipper

The joke is in that it’s an animated movie attempt of parents trying to Red Pill their kids……which likely traumatized the kids because parents from that era were never Red Pill to begin with and didn’t have the character and knowledge to whether the storm of rage and fallout that would result of the kids developing introspection, which would ironically make the kids hate introspection.

Watership Down is a movie about how nations are made.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@kfg

Correct.

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“‘Relationship satisfaction was directly related to men’s ability to read their female partner’s positive emotions correctly.”

learn to speak girl

learn to think girl

but don’t talk girl

translate

talk man, and even better,

act man

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“I prefer direct statements of meaning and intent when interacting with men; especially those I’m trying to learn from . . .” Have you ever noticed that when you’re driving, anyone going slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac? If I am not direct enough, you complain that I’m a maniac, putting the bread crumbs too far apart for you to get it. If I shove them closer together you complain that I’m treating you like an idiot, because, oooooobviously you already know that stuff. Even assuming I could read your mind,… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

What I love about this forum is that you guys really make me think, which is a deep and genuine pleasure for me.

And wildly entertaining.

That, and the fact that o don’t want to blow up my marriage, is why I’m here.

Blax, I’m gonna get back to you on that one, because I gotta think about it. Hehe.

But first, a job to attend to. Sigh.

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Putting Watership Down on my reading list. I read it at maybe 12 years old, and remember nothing but rabbits in the English countryside.

M Simon
4 years ago

Bill Maher Warns #MeToo Movement Creating ‘Police State’ for Sex

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bill-maher-warns-metoo-movement-creating-police-state-for-sex

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Problem with thinking is that its addictive and hard to turn off.

Blax,

How is fixing a washing machine and living your life even *remotely* comparable?

M Simon
4 years ago

And here I thought “Watership Down” was about making warm winter clothing.

M Simon
4 years ago

fleezer
February 14, 2018 at 9:25 am

Best is – you can FEEL her emotions.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Mitch

Lol, if you don’t know, I couldn’t tell you.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

Hey Mitch, “How is fixing a washing machine and living your life even *remotely* comparable?” Sheesh, you obviously haven’t read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance The washing machine is a metaphysical shit test. A gumption trap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumption_trap Pirsig examines the modern pursuit of “Pure Truths”, claiming it derives from the work of early Greek philosophers who were establishing the concept of truth in opposition to the force of “The Good”. He argues that although rational thought may find a truth (or The Truth) it may never be fully and universally applicable to each and every individual’s experience.… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Blax,

Your analogy implies that the question “How, then, shall we live?” that has universally preoccupied humans since they became self- conscious, and has given rise to vastly complex and varied wisdom traditions, can simply be tossed out the window.

Operate from instinct, and what is essentially mechanical knowledge. One or two steps above the cognitive operation of my dog (who truly lived in the Garden of Eden – I mean the pure, unbridled Joy in that magnificent creature!), but not much.

How is this sufficient? Where does art, literature and music come from?

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

SJF:

Ok, back to the drawing board.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

SJF

I resisted the urge to point to The Art of Zen, as to us it seems so obvious.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

kfg – thanks for the explanation; I now understand and will put that on my list of things to explore further possible further considerations… “the question was not directed at men unable or unwilling to do at least some of their thinking for themselves” :: and that’s how you decide if someone is unable or unwilling? by asking some vague question for which you already have an answer in your head? and yes, it’s vague from the perspective of someone who is far more ignorant on the subject than you just lead me to the water and I’ll decide whether… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… Zen and the Art. Im getting dyslexic.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

kfg – lol, just saw your comment as I posted mine… “If I shove them closer together you complain that I’m treating you like an idiot” :: I don’t recall complaining about your more direct and expository comments, I’ve actually commented support of that approach, hopefully to encourage it; maybe you weren’t addressing me on that, dunno not liking when the breadcrumbs too far apart, ya, I did some whining about that; standing by it, though “most of the people I’m writing for I can only deduce exist” :: I’m glad to infer that you mean to provide good info… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@Blaximus The first time Robert Pirsig tried to dream up and write down The Metaphysics of Quality, he went clinically insane. So it was not hardly obvious. And he had to work through that riding a motorbike across country and trying to relate to his son in order to not repeat that fuck-up the second time. In a 1974 interview with National Public Radio, Pirsig stated that the book took him four years to write. During two of these years, Pirsig continued working at his job of writing computer manuals. This caused him to fall into an unorthodox schedule, waking… Read more »

Novaseeker
4 years ago

Your analogy implies that the question “How, then, shall we live?” that has universally preoccupied humans since they became self- conscious, and has given rise to vastly complex and varied wisdom traditions, can simply be tossed out the window.

Or perhaps rather that it should be rephrased “How, then, shall I live”, and decided personally, rather than discussed publicly. That way, we can all discuss praxeology in itself, while each of us personally decides how that praxeology fits with our personal answer to that question, which we decide ourselves, and not publicly.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

“Second, he died assured of his investment’s return, and thousands like them. He was the father of an Empire.”

“I note that as well as leaving behind a legacy of his book, he is survived by 6 grandchildren and lived just long enough to see the birth of his first great grandchild“

Hm. Consequential lives, both.

Upthread commenter has had enough of your non-praxeology, btw.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Dr. Zipper: “seems like a good teacher can inspires a desire to learn more . . .” A good teacher knows that if he tries to do that for everybody, he does it for nobody. If I’m not the teacher for you, that’s OK, for both of us. As a music teacher I have often handed off students to someone else who I feel would suit them better for one reason or another. I believe that’s one of the things that makes me a good teacher. I don’t keep people around just for the money (yes, I’m looking at you… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

One more note about Hazel: The natural lifespan of a rabbit is circa 10 years. The average lifespan of a wild rabbit is something less than 2 years. It’s not easy being tasty. If you come across a three year old rabbit in the wild, you have met a tough and wily critter. 4 years old, you’ve met the Sgt. Rock of rabbits. Bow before him. You are not worthy. Hazel survived his adventures, which included being shot, and died of old age. He was one baaaaaaadass motherfucker of a rabbit and translated into a demigod in the owsla of… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

How should men live?

Being sentient, we desire making lasting choices, avoiding mistakes…even when failure is emotionally, financially meaningless. A seeming ability to infinitely reverse a life’s course is attractive but drives men mad.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Speaking of tasty rabbits my boy traps, guts and bakes them with oat cranberry stuffing.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

For those of us on the other end of the shotgun the war against the rabbits is never ending. If we slack off the slaughter for a minute those furry little bastards will kill us all.

O.B.I.T.
O.B.I.T.
4 years ago

I’m going to spare everyone and not post the Fatal Attraction bunny-boil scene. Anne Archer and Glenn Close are pretty tasty, though.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

“Here’s an opportunity to break out the dictionaries. Colloquial, Literary and Etymological.”

lol, I was more like that when younger and time for me seemed eternal; now, with the list of shit I wanna do and be, simplicity, directness, clarity and focus are the words of the day

too bad our paths didn’t cross 20-30 yrs ago

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

http://mikesouth.com/mainstream/hollywood-hypocrites-judd-apatow-chelsea-handler-21625/
“Hazel survived his adventures, which included being shot, and died of old age. He was one baaaaaaadass motherfucker of a rabbit and translated into a demigod in the owsla of the Black Rabbit himself.

If they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you.”

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

The FI, man shaming, Hollywood Peter Rabbit betaizing feminist PETA shitshow never ends.

https://youtu.be/7Pa_Weidt08

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

“simplicity, directness, clarity and focus are the words of the day”

Yeah don’t overthink it.

Btw, my colleagues ex had her boyfriend’s boat in the driveway a month into the split. He said the exact same as you though went right back to BP mode.

Dr. Zipper, you don’t regret the disasters you’ve avoided.

Thank you for contributing.

725
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: