No Prescriptions

On Saturday I had a great discussion with Anthony Johnson, Rian Stone (Married Red Pill Reddit) and “Carl” from Black Label Logic. The topic was a critique of the impact Dr. Jordan Peterson is having on a society of ‘lost’ (mostly) young men and how his message is affecting this generally rudderless generation of men. It’s a little over two hours long, but from the overwhelming response on YouTube, Facebook, Reddit and other forums it’s definitely struck a nerve. As an aside here, I’m considering making this meet up video format something I may do semi-regularly (like every other week) with some of the men I consider peers in the manosphere.

You can watch this talk at your leisure, but it has taught me a few things. As I mentioned in the chat it’s next to impossible to have any disagreement or critique of people whom other’s believe are your betters. As Rollo Tomassi it’s impossible for me to be critical of any high profile guy in the sphere without the accusations of professional jealousy or sour grapes being the first reflexive response from haters. I got that, but I’ve learned the conversation is more important that trying to convince anyone of it being genuine. In fact, I think it belies a bigger problem when they are above critique.

That aside, I think it was good to finally parse where Red Pill awareness and what Peterson is advocating have some overlap and where we differ. Peterson is a fountain of hope for the ‘lost’ boys, so anything critical of his message is going to sound like it’s endorsing an “enjoy the decline” mentality. I can’t expect everyone to have read up on my own opinion about that, but the short version is that I’ve never been convinced of some inevitable decline and fall of western civilization. In other words, I think it is possible to turn the ship around; where I may differ is in how that might be done.

For the record here I want to say that I have a great respect for Dr. Peterson. I think he’s what the sphere has needed for a while and I think he fits the role of ‘champion’ that a generation of young men have wanted to place on someone. Ideologically I agree with about 85-90% of what he advocates and there’s no doubt that he’s got definite skin in the game. In fact I really hate it when people use that as some catch phrase to disqualify men today. As a man we all have skin in the game now. How much and to what degree may be debatable, but we all live in a feminine-primary social order and as such we all have a lot to risk whether we acknowledge this or not.

Where I differ with Peterson is in his very Trad-Con solutions to turning the ship around. I wasn’t shocked to see him endorsed in videos for Prager University. In some ways what he proposes resonates with young men looking for a direction because their fathers and generations of Blue Pill men haven’t been able to deliver a way out of Hell for them. I go into this in more detail in our talk here, but here are some of my issues with Peterson’s take on things:

• Life is suffering and sacrifice: In every video I’ve watched Dr. Peterson’s founding (zen-like) premise is that life is suffering and the best men can do is to find ways to minimize that suffering. Men (and I’ve yet to see a video addressing women) must sacrifice parts or all of themselves in order to qualify for “genuine” manhood. The degree of that self-sacrifice is relative to how high a status that man can achieve.

I fundamentally disagree with this premise though I do understand why it’s so appealing to a ‘lost generation’ of young men. From my own perspective, life is based on a perpetual discontent, but how a man deals with that discontent – creatively or destructively – is the measure of him. Furthermore, I would argue that women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make in order to facilitate their reality.

• Blue Pill conditioning seems to define his perspective of women: Essentially the archetype he has for women was formed for him as a 7 year old boy when he first developed a soul-mate ONEitis for his wife. His reluctance to acknowledge the Alpha Fucks side of women’s Hypergamy in any video (beyond his repeated use of 50 Shades of Grey as a humorous example) leads me to the impression that he defaults to women as innately ‘good’ and above too much criticism. As such he focuses almost entirely on the good provider / parental investment / Beta need side of Hypergamy. This is unsurprising as it follows the same Trad-Con interpretations of women being “closer to God than men” and men must qualify themselves, and sacrifice themselves for women’s (wives) intimate approval. Dalrock has covered this dynamic among male “complementarian” Christian leaders quite extensively.

• Sacrifice of men is a parallel to men’s disposability: Men will blow themselves up for pussy. From what I gather from his talks Peterson endorses male disposability as a form of Honor. He seems to play on the ‘Man Up / Shut Up’ dynamic I talked about in The Honor SystemWhat ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny. I’m not suggesting Peterson is accusing men of Patriarchy or Misogyny, rather, like most Trad-Cons, it’s a question of living up to one’s duty as a man in his disposability and his usefulness in that sacrifice.

• “Get your shit together” is also a plea for sacrifice: If a man is less valuable his sacrifice is less meaningful. No one cares about mediocre / average men’s sacrifices, but if a man accepts that he is to improve himself it is so that his sacrifice is more appreciated and important. Thus, the comparisons to Christ’s sacrifice as being the ultimate expression of sacrifice and meaning which Peterson uses in his dissertations on manhood and the Bible. My issue here is that women and a feminine-primary social order lack a capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make because these are taken-for-granted expectations of what a man just “ought to do”.

• Peterson is egalitarian to a fault: The mantra may be for men to sack up and make something of themselves, but this is couched in an egalitarian equalism that’s prevalent today. If I had one question to ask Jordan it would be this; is there a dominance hierarchy in a healthy LTR or marriage? I don’t know for certain. My guess is he would say it passes back and forth between a husband and wife which is to say he falls back on an egalitarian ideal. However, outside the family structure he acknowledges that men and women in a state of egalitarianism choose to adopt traditional gender roles (I think he gave the same example as was covered here).

• Dr. Peterson regularly resorts to shaming language with men, rarely does he do the same with women: This may be a simple question of his delivery, but Peterson is always harder on men than he is with women. In so doing he adopts the AMOGing of only men techniques that a pastor like Mark Driscoll uses from the pulpit. Inso doing he pedestalizes women and absolves them of any consequences of their Hypergamous choices by imploring men to “man up and marry those sluts“. In essence the sacrificial nature of men becomes one that is necessary for the continuance of ‘family’ and western culture in spite of women. I also see how this plays into the idea of women lacking any moral agency, personal responsibility and wiping the bad behavior of women off on the men who have allowed this to happen. Once again it comes back to the hypoagency of women.

• Peterson believes that desire can be negotiated: This is my biggest problem with Peterson’s approach to women. This undoubtedly comes from his being a clinical psychologist, but like most therapists he defaults to the idea that genuine desire can be motivated by a process of negotiation. If there is one example of his lack of experience with women it is this belief. In several of his interviews and podcasts he makes reference to appealing to women’s reason and negotiating terms for acceptable behavior (always a man’s behavior) in exchange for intimacy and/or a stress-free marriage. This is the egalitarian, Oprah Approved, male-sublimated means to achieving transactional intimacy.

As you might guess, I strongly disagree with negotiating intimacy. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. You can obligate a woman to fuck you (now called rape) via negotiation, but you cannot organically inspire genuine desire in a woman. This has always been my main point of contention with the marriage counseling trade for a long time.

What is the Red Pill version of “man-up”?

I had a commenter ask me this in the last comment thread. I think there’s two sides to this question. First, I think there’s a need to keep the Red Pill (in the intersexual sense) as close to an objectivist purpose as possible. That means Red Pill awareness is the result of a continuing praxeology.

I’ve locked horns with a few Red Pill guys recently who seem to think that ‘Red Pill’ is an ideology and it’s just the counter revolt to feminism; basically it is feminism for men. I think that does a huge disservice to everything and everyone that’s brought us to where we are today in Red Pill awareness and all of the work and personal risk that was put on the line to explore what we know as Red Pill awareness now. Not only that it casually devalues the effort and work that’s continuing right now.

Critics and feminists alike want to draw parallels in the manosphere to whatever (fictitious) wave of feminism they think applies to whatever the Men’s Rights Movement is calling Red Pill at the moment. Believing that Red Pill is an ideology is one more casualty of how the term / brand has been bastardized by other ideologies who’ve never had any business referring to themselves as “red pill”.

Presuming Red Pill is just an ideology is juvenile, and unsurprisingly it’s an opinion of some underexperienced men in the manosphere who want for simplistic answers. They don’t want to think about what Red Pill awareness implies on a larger social scale. They want a flag to wave and an easy to understand ideology so they can stick it to their feminist enemies. I get it. They want Red Pill (however they define it) to be that ideology, but to me, I think, and I’ve always said it, the Red Pill needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, areligious and amoral to ensure that it stays true to understanding truth. It needs to remain true to being an aggregate of men’s collected experiences with intersexual dynamics.

What these guys want is a meaning to that truth, but that’s not the Red Pill. Meaning is what men will apply to that truth according to their individual needs, situations and circumstances. This is why Peterson and probably some more personalities to follow him will be popular in the future; they prioritize meaning above truth. If you listen to the first podcast of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson they spend the entire time trying to come to an agreed measure of truth between the two of them so they can move on (in the second podcast) to what is meaning.

You want to know why I don’t do prescriptions on The Rational Male? Because we disempower ourselves when we follow someone else’s path and not our own.

There is a deep need in almost all people to improve or ‘fix’ ourselves in some way. I’ve written essays about it; discontent is is the human condition. That in no way means that life is suffering as per the Peterson (Zen) doctrine, but it is man’s condition to never be satisfied with even the greatest of accomplishments. That is what put us at the top of the species contest on this planet. You can be constructively or destructively discontent, but when you tell me that life is suffering and the only way to lessen that suffering (never to solve it of course) is to sacrifice my way to a better life all that says to me is that you’re out of ideas for a creative solution and you’re all-in on the destructive methods. Either that or you’ll continue naval gazing.

Fuck that.

So, the Red Pill needs to remain a praxeology and it ought to always resist being force-fit into an ideology because it’s always some ideological hack who wants to claim the truth it reveals as proof of his own purpose. The Red Pill has to remain an open source aggregate of men’s experiences. That’s why we’re still here today in spite of the Rooshs who said it would die out 3 years ago – it’s open source and decentralized information.

Now, to the second point, what does ‘Man up’ mean in the Red Pill context? I think this is really for the individual to decide, but I’d say that it would involve a man utilizing and internalizing the awareness the Red Pill represents to him and improving his life with it. In the Safety Net post’s comment thread there are hundreds of examples of how men saved their own lives, often literally. How the Red Pill truth reached them and then manifested in their lives is highly individual. I mentioned the need for a dissociation with ideology because that usually means aligning oneself with the expectations of someone else’s version of truth, not the objective (or as objective as we can make it) truth of the Red Pill.

When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?

It should, because in almost all contexts imploring a guy to “Man Up” is following someone else’s path, not your own. This is what I mean when I say that I’m not in the business of creating better men, I’m in the business of men making themselves better men. And in today’s world of men seeking direction there is no shortage of personalities who’d like nothing more than to profit from selling men on their paths.

If there is a definition of ‘manning up’ in a Red Pill sense it is living a better way than your previous life that was informed by the falsehoods of your Blue Pill conditioning. Manning up Red Pill is killing off that old Blue Pill-created persona and killing off the false idealisms it taught you. It’s understanding and internalizing that those lies made you a less authentic person because the Blue Pill is firmly an ideology, but one that wears the mask of freedom or choice or individualism. If self-improvement in a Red Pill sense entail some basic tenets, one is that a man cuts himself away from that old Blue Pill paradigm and rebuilds a better life for himself based on a real understanding of intersexual truth on the personal, social and political scales.

Manning up Red Pill begins with rejecting the lies of egalitarian equalism and a commitment to real objective understanding of intersexual dynamics.

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
4 years ago
O.B.I.T.
O.B.I.T.
4 years ago

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/2018/02/09/jordan-petersons-book-is-a-bestseller-except-where-it-matters-most.html

TL;DR — NYT won’t list his book as a bestseller because they claim it’s published only in Canada

I know JP owns the internet but I’m wondering how much of a dent he’s made yet in the mainstream US media. Do they try to ignore him and hope he’ll soon fade away? If they do start reporting on him as a “trend” or a “phenomenon” it will probably be so they can 1) willfully misinterpret him and 2) destroy him for thought crimes.

He’s not just on the public stage now, he’s way out on a limb

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

OBIT I know JP owns the internet but I’m wondering how much of a dent he’s made yet in the mainstream US media. Do they try to ignore him and hope he’ll soon fade away? If they do start reporting on him as a “trend” or a “phenomenon” it will probably be so they can 1) willfully misinterpret him and 2) destroy him for thought crimes. That is a game well worth watching. Barely 24 hours after the Newman interview I saw on FB an anti-JP meme having to do with lobster dominance. Pretty clever, too. And then a “friend”… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@status confirmed

Why does she deserve or need to know what the women before her have or have not gotten out of you? Women like a good mystery. Give them one.

O.B.I.T.
O.B.I.T.
4 years ago

The NYT’s annoying David Brooks does try to give JP a surprisingly even-handed look

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/opinion/jordan-peterson-moment.html?referer=https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

“Would I have accomplished those things, knowing back then it was a lie? Dunno. There may be fewer takers for the role “suicide bomber” if the truth of “seventy black-eyed virgins” was known.” There would be a lot fewer takers for the role “Doctor, Engineer, Accountant, Software / Finance professionals”. That is why the Matrix has to maintain the lie. If at 16 I knew what I know now, my life would have taken the “Jack Donovan – The Way of Men” route. And the Matrix and FI do not want everybody to be like that. They need sexually frustrated… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Re the above: I don’t mean to sound like a paranoid freak or anything, but some of my chameleon inspired adventures on the internet the last few months have led me to believe that this shit is getting very very real. If you’ve ever read the Gulag Archipelago, you might perceive that the FI as it exists now ain’t nothing compared to the horror show that seems at this point entirely possible in our future. About 25 years ago I started a multi-disciplinary graduate school program. And learned quite a bit about post-modern ideology, critical theory, etc. At the time… Read more »

Razorwire
Razorwire
4 years ago

Great Commentary! Chimera, nice take. I see much of the same. The origin stories of men like JP provide important context. JP has emerged like some anti-hero, nearly ejected from the ivory tower to find himself more wealthy and powerful than he could have ever hoped for as a result of his thoughtcrimes against the cathedral. It is important to frame his work according to the context; the primordial ooze from which he spawned (academia), how quickly he has given his ideas new legs, and how (even to his own great surprise) the consumers have come to him. People are… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

And I tell ya… Red Pill adherents will be the ones in the re-education camps Solzhenitsyn describes. Prime alphas would be allowed to breed, but I wouldn’t count on it happening au natural. Women who love submitting to AF won’t be the ones in charge. Lol

This shit HAS happened before – NOBODY saw the Bolshevic revolution coming. We don’t have that excuse today.

JPs stand against totalitarianism is a prerequisite for all others.

Join him.

O.B.I.T.
O.B.I.T.
4 years ago

Mitch

I could see a pro-JP cartoon lobster logo becoming the next Pepe the Frog

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@Mitch: “JPs stand against totalitarianism is a prerequisite for all others. Join him.” You have the same ego investments in the Blue Pill ideals as JBP. Both of you believe that a man can “negotiate” genuine desire with a woman, that his sacrifices and “suffering” to make her life better will be appreciated by her and rewarded with genuine desire. I don’t know how many insightful articles Rollo has to write and how many hours Blax, Sentient and kfg have to spend typing long comments to put some sense into your thick heads, that it does not work that way.… Read more »

Novaseeker
4 years ago

This shit HAS happened before – NOBODY saw the Bolshevic revolution coming. We don’t have that excuse today. Well, except it won’t happen that way, because they don’t need to do it that way this time. This time the revolution is running right through the institutions — media, universities, corporations. Basically the entire culture is being flipped. They don’t need re-education camps run by the state when it’s the corporations who will force their employees to undertake the re-education as diversity training, and evaluate work performance based on criteria that bake in the entire revolutionary culture. It’s already happening, really.… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

“When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?” Yes it can only be derogatory…it is derogatory…it is proactively intended to be derogatory. Every man should be his own judge not the judge of others. But certainly I will judge shit others attempt to heap on me. We all have our own row to hoe (or “ho” to row). We each have our own shit to deal with. If someone tells you to “man up” it simply means they are wasting their energy and time projecting their own bullshit on… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

The FI and JBP are not worried about the Red Pilled Alphas and the Blue Pilled Betas, as both these types of men fully participate in the system and serve the FI. They provide the Alpha Fucks and the Beta Bucks respectively. But with the Red Pill knowledge spreading like fire, the FI and the (((powers that be))) are worried about the bottom 50% of men checking out of the Sexual Market Place (going MGTOW Monk) and not participating in the system, a big loss to all females as they will not be able to exploit the “potential sacrifices” of… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . worried about the bottom 50% of men checking out of the Sexual Market Place (going MGTOW Monk) and not participating in the system . . .”

There’s a super simple fix to that problem:

Give. Men. Paternity.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

“Ronin Peterson is very careful of what he says, l’m pretty sure he’s laying out the prescription for the red pill in a way feminists can’t effectively attack .” He is laying it out in a way THEY CAN AND WILL ATTACK. “I read him that way too. He’s aware of himself as an actor on a public stage, and aware that demonstrating full red-pill awareness would place him firmly – and permanently – outside the bounds of acceptable discourse.” Peterson doesn’t have the balls to tell the raw truth. That makes him a BP Maxipad. I’ve watched several of… Read more »

j
j
4 years ago

@Incubus_Rising

comment image

Spartans!
Spartans!
4 years ago

Rollo, Jocko and JBP are all pieces of the puzzle that lead to a better life.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

Novaseeker I completely agree with you. The media, pop culture, “corporate policy” etc. IS the reeducation camp. But, what do you think the outcome (temporarily) will be? Do you think men will just keep taking it up the ass when their rights are reduced to the point that it begins to seriously affect their standard of living? Or do you think the frog is being boiled slowly enough so it won’t notice until it is too late? And if so, what then? What then, when there are no live frogs left for the princess to kiss? I think, some men… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Incubus, You misunderstand my post wrt JP and BP/RP. I’m saying I don’t care what JP has to say about these issues. And you shouldn’t either. We have what we need here at TRM, and other places. But he’s the man to stand with, and learn from, wrt to totalitarianism and what is happening with the cultural discourse. And its important, very much so. And the good news is, finding a way to stand with someone like JP against totalitarianism, gives you a noble and worthy mission that creates the future. Generative. Its what being a Father actually *means*. Very… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

“…This shit HAS happened before – NOBODY saw the Bolshevic revolution coming. We don’t have that excuse today. ”

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqreRufrkxM&w=854&h=480%5D

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

Novaseeker tells it better than Victor Davis Hanson.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Blaximus:

Lord knows (as it were) I didn’t. I thought it was history, until I was surrounded. They carry rifles these days.

They knew where to show up because the proper permits had been obtained, so as long as we continued to color between the lines we were OK, but they were there just in case. It was an “interesting” experience for a young American.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

“Rollo, Jocko and JBP are all pieces of the puzzle that lead to a better life.”

Hmmmm…I’m puzzled by this one…

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Toxic masculinity is legally excusable if . . . you’re a woman:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/675258/lesbian-louanne-budgen-atacks-wife-hayley-male-hormones-jail

status confirmed
status confirmed
4 years ago

@Fleezer- “has serious plate spinning itch” is turning into “had” for me at this point. Now in my mid-40’s, it’s not the same. I’m out to be a good wing man and trying to help younger guys I know, so they don’t miss out on their prime years. (Or help them get over a divorce or avoid a bad gf situation.) @M Simon- I get what you’re saying. One thing that’s been good about RM and the comments section, is the advice that women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told that they are playing a… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

https://areomagazine.com/2017/06/26/a-feminist-reviews-the-red-pill/

The Red Pill is not woman’s to present to the world.

It is a masculine phenomena. It is the result of male abstract logical thought, It is not the result of female solipsistic indulgence, yet that is exactly how it is mostly being presented to the world.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Status comfirmed

“Maybe it’s a slump, but it may be my prime has come to an end.”

Pure bs. You just need to step up your game.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
Novaseeker
4 years ago

Or do you think the frog is being boiled slowly enough so it won’t notice until it is too late? And if so, what then? What then, when there are no live frogs left for the princess to kiss? @NBTM — Well, hard to say. All speculation, really. Bread and circuses will probably continue to work, at least for a while, as long as they are forthcoming. Much of the current system is enabled by so much prosperity overall that even slackers can lead a decent life with entertainment and self-medication. I can see us slouching towards a 90-10 desire… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“This will all work as long as the men have enough bread and circuses (porn, VR porn, hookers, beer, ESPN, x-box, motorcycles, etc) to keep them satisfied with their lot more or less,”

This will work until the fiat ponzi scheme collapses.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

“There won’t be any need for re-education camps by the state, because unless you at least mouth the accepted cultural truths you won’t be able to get or keep a job.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peNlmAuvKd0
Lived through this
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jordan-peterson-i-will-explain-my-position-on-the-historical-jesus-in-three
“Women like a good mystery. Give them one.”
Underrated in today’s climate even in New Orleans.

M Simon
4 years ago

status confirmed February 13, 2018 at 1:23 pm @M Simon- I get what you’re saying. One thing that’s been good about RM and the comments section, is the advice that women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told that they are playing a game and how to play it. The fewer pronouncements I make, the better. Just let her figure it out, I don’t need to explain it. I violate that advice regularly with the LTR. She is beginning – after many years – to understand her own internal nature. I’m not sure if it has… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Sentient
February 13, 2018 at 1:28 pm

Last Valentines Day I took the LTR out and our server girl was madly attracted to me. WE are hoping to repeat the experience this year because it gets the LTR madly attracted to me. I am hoping to bring a girl home with us (if I can) because the LTRs attraction goes through the roof when competition is immediately present. The LTR just LOVES being attracted to me that much – even if she needs competition to get there.

M Simon
4 years ago

Sentient
February 13, 2018 at 1:52 pm

This will work until the fiat ponzi scheme collapses.

China issued $1/2trillion in loans in January.

It might be a few more weeks.

Jeremy
4 years ago

JBP is still worth listening to if only for the non-social-marxist liberal arts education you can get from his knowledge on the political mistakes of the recent past and the philosophy of our modern great thinkers. He’s popular because he exists in a world of immeasurably thirsty men raised by women or beta fathers, he has impeccable credentials, and he uses very precise language to defend masculinity in the public view. That alone is very rare. But better yet his defense of masculinity is so well worded that the usual suspects are left twiddling their vulvas if not in epileptic… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

” This will work until the fiat ponzi scheme collapses.”

Key in any equation we may look at.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@status confirmed It’s only as over as you believe it is. When I moved to Austin the first time I was at an upscale bar/Italian restaurant a mid 40s woman courteously gave the balding beta next to her a number when he asked to get him out the door, then moved over next to me and was quite literally clawing at me begging for my number. I didn’t have any interest in her or express any, I was just my usual amusing self. Meanwhile a cute 17 year old back in Dallas that’s a daughter of some friends is counting… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Novaseeker This will all work as long as the men have enough bread and circuses (porn, VR porn, hookers, beer, ESPN, x-box, motorcycles, etc) to keep them satisfied with their lot more or less, or at least not revolutionary. The wildcard is if the house of cards falls apart in terms of prosperity — if that happens, all bets are off, imo. We’re a debt-financed consumer economy. If less people work, there are less consumers, therefore less money to go around… anybody wanna guess where this ends? You can only paper over the gaping hole in the real economy with… Read more »

Novaseeker
4 years ago

You can only paper over the gaping hole in the real economy with QE and ZIRP for so long.

Sure. All I am saying is that until this happens, we likely just float along as we are doing now.

M Simon
4 years ago

rugby11 February 13, 2018 at 2:18 pm Well. I was alive back then. And I will tell you how the communists got in. 1. Government enforced racism 2. Government enforced marriage/culture 3. Government enforced… what have you. And because it was government enforced it was given no thought and certainly not enough cultural underpinning. And some of what the government was enforcing was just plain wrong. The defects were easy to see. Glaring. If we get through this I hope we learn our lesson. Culture is not a government solvable problem. When government tries to “solve” culture it weakens the… Read more »

Jeremy
4 years ago

Hmmm, my comments are getting stuck in the spam net I think.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

In the discussion, at about 45:12, Carlos brings up the phenomena he refers to (very appropriately) as “Reproductive Communism”.

BP men and Feminists compete with each other for control of Reproductive Communism.

Like all forms of communism, Reproductive Communism is self immolating no matter who controls it.

M Simon
4 years ago

When women were among the spoils of war – women as property made sense. Well – if not sense then at least we know where the idea came from.

We are in the process of developing a new set of relations.

Dang Catholics and their “just war” doctrine. LOL.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sun

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-06/feds-qe-unwind-accelerates-sharply

,,, although, granted, I’ve taken to believing that the FED is totally full of shit.

ZIRP is a goner too ( supposedly ) as the tax cuts are feared to cause ” inflation ” ( lol…).

Jeremy
4 years ago

Women are still spoils of war, or else Rollo’s “War Brides” post wouldn’t exist.

They’re not spoils of war because men wanted commodities to trade, they’re spoils of war because women are so naturally pragmatic they switch sides in order to win the reproduction game.

M Simon
4 years ago

Jeremy
February 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm

Women can only be spoils of war (in the traditional sense) if they are property. Otherwise there has to be at least a temporary social exchange. Booty does not get to choose where it gets shipped to.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@ Novaseeker

“The wildcard is if the house of cards falls apart in terms of prosperity — if that happens, all bets are off, imo.”

…and we are floating along as you say.

I agree. And it seems that an overall prevailing trend is now established both socially and economically, floating in a direction of increasing unsustainability, regardless of demographic changes, sexual & cultural paradigm battles, etc.

Jeremy
4 years ago

But Simon, women choose their partner, and women will fuck the soldiers of an invading army. Hence, women are spoils of war since they can be made available simply by overrunning their town.

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

@ status confirmed Sentient never cuts anybody slack on this but he is right. There is no way in your 40s that you are past your prime. That is a zone wherein the trade offs between physical prowess, wisdom, knowledge, cunning, and experience should all be working in your favor. They are trade offs because you can’t maximize everything simultaneously, you’ll be better physically at some things when younger, but probably have more savvy and resources when a little older, etc. In many ways you are only now coming into your prime if you look at it holistically. You have… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Jeremy
February 13, 2018 at 3:18 pm

Spoils of war is “I’m taking her. You get your own.” The killing among successful attackers after a battle was notorious.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Lost Patrol

No need to besmirch motorcycles by lumping them in with porn and xbox. Motorcycles are transcendental. And they’ve saved thousands of men’s lives. Although that may also be true for beer.

Bikes have experienced a huge influx of nerds the past few years. Not entirely sure why. Also not saying it changes their essential nature, but it certainly has reshaped perceptions a bit.

status confirmed
status confirmed
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong- “Why does she deserve or need to know what the women before her have or have not gotten out of you? Women like a good mystery. Give them one.”

Mostly I answer straight questions with straight answers either when I’m tired or not in a playful mood. No excuses, just haven’t internalized it to the point where my natural reflex is to play around with her and not take her too seriously.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Sun

AOC is 17 in Tejas… Tell her to come on down.

j
j
4 years ago

“Bikes have experienced a huge influx of nerds the past few years. Not entirely sure why. Also not saying it changes their essential nature, but it certainly has reshaped perceptions a bit.”

because bikes are “manly”. same shit with beards

https://twitter.com/NazBolPartyHQ/status/962615379762860032

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

There’s a super simple fix to that problem:

Give. Men. Paternity. – kfg

My wife tells me that in Ukraine men can keep their children in the event of divorce, and she can’t take his money, either. Women drivers also tend to put a sticker on their windshield of a pink pair of high heels, so everyone knows they better look out- woman behind the wheel!

Hmm maybe thats an idea for an adventurous young lad looking to get married. Move to Ukraine and start a business. They welcome foreign investment.

j
j
4 years ago

“I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.” – Ya

M Simon
4 years ago

In any case Jeremy my point is that we are witnessing the revolt of former slaves. What they don’t get is that near everyone was a slave back then. So you describe women’s slavery and ignore that of the men.

Our one saving grace (if we live long enough) is that differential reproduction does not favor the communists. And they will probably leave enough wreckage to cure us for a while.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Mitch

“My wife tells me that in Ukraine men can keep their children in the event of divorce, and she can’t take his money, either. ”

heh… Recall I mentioned before you got married to tell her you wanted to settle there… Not here.

Novaseeker
4 years ago

No need to besmirch motorcycles by lumping them in with porn and xbox. Motorcycles are transcendental. And they’ve saved thousands of men’s lives. Although that may also be true for beer.

hehe. noted. Also true for hookers. I am betting we’d have a lot more rapists if internet hookers were really shut down.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Sentient

Was legal. Until 2017. They added a Romeo and Juliet clause, no more than 3 years difference at 17. Obviously an attempt to effectively move the age up to 18. 40 year old women don’t like competing with the younguns, and I can’t blame them. Wrinkled and sagging just can’t compare to smooth and pert.

j
j
4 years ago

“I am betting we’d have a lot more rapists if internet hookers were really shut down”.

….and more school shootings if porn wasn’t so easily accessible

http://www.returnofkings.com/150667/how-to-take-profit-from-the-emerging-incel-economy

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Status Confirmed

One more

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWqK4taFXEo/?hl=en

Fifty Five year old Steve “come at me bro” Lyon.

j
j
4 years ago

“Wrinkled and sagging just can’t compare to smooth and pert.”

haha don’t tell that to blax 😉

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

J

Beauty is where you find it. There are plenty of 20yo girls I wouldn’t fuck with Hank’s dick… Plenty of mid 50s woman I would fuck. And vice versa.

j
j
4 years ago
thedeti
4 years ago

Nova, NBTM, everyone: In our coming Brave New World, dissidents wont be sent to labor camps for “reeducation”. There will be no real physical gulags. The gulag will be a virtual one. As Nova said, the ostracism will be virtual and economic. If you don’t toe the party line, you won’t be able to get a job. You will be fired from the one you have and unable to get most kinds of gainful employment. You will be ostracized from all social groups, including social clubs, churches, etc. You won’t be allowed to join and you’ll be kicked out of… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

On average your random selection of 18-20s is more likely to include something I’d bang than your random selection of 50s. But everyone already knows that. *shrug*

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@thedeti

In our coming Brave New World, dissidents wont be sent to labor camps for “reeducation”. There will be no real physical gulags. The gulag will be a virtual one.

I’ve long told people Huxley was far closer to correct than Orwell was. A prison is far more effective when the prisoners love their chains.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ j

You’re certifiable, but I live you anyway.

Keep living and you’ll keep learning.

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Sentient,

I do recall that. It wouldn’t be something I’d ever consider, (Ukrainian mafia is no joke) but if I’d been serious about it, I think shed have been thrilled. Her goal was not to leave Ukraine. Would have made a good vet test tho.

👍👍 on Steve Lyon – love the older alpha examples. Papa Hemingway, too.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

that’s ” love you ” btw.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Sun

We’re averaging now?

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sentient

Lol, he’s young so he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He thinks ” old people ” are wrinkled and unattractive, but he probable has more wrinkles than I do.

… or my Dad for that matter.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ j

Bang who you like.

Is someone trying to make you bang wrinkled ladies?

Well, don’t do that son.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Black don’t crack!

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

I trust my dick in these matters…

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Yuck…. the wrinkles….

http://www.tori.ng/userfiles/image/2016/jun/28/Yen.jpg

comment image

And don’t even get me started on those 64 year old hags…

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… we did this a few times already.

Lol.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

“Here, hold on while I point out exceptions pumped full of botox and silicon that spend 100% of their effort to maintain beauty because its their job.”

Nobody said they wouldn’t bang a 50 year old ever. Just that they’re more likely to find an attractive 20-something. But keep hacking away at that straw man.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… yeah, we gotta Test this shit.

*shudders*

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sun

the pics were aimed at J the magnificent.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

Re the “virtual gulags” thing – already visible in my social and professional circle. I think I’ve mentioned before that I often post on another forum related to my professional field, where a lot of personal and news type stuff also gets discussed. In the last few years, as I’ve become more RP, my postings have changed. I don’t deliberately set out to argue RP with anyone, but you spend enough time in discussion and your real personality and opinions are bound to come out to some extent and it’s clear that even with mild changes of my position on… Read more »

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

“This is what I mean when I say that I’m not in the business of creating better men, I’m in the business of men making themselves better men.” This is it right here. Just like you I always take JBP with a grain of salt when it comes to intersexual dynamics. It’s like his philosophy regarding the dynamics is “man up…for women”. He breaks down certain concepts very well in separation. But as you pointed out he never criticises women…at all. Even though he implicitly sheds light on some truths like the fact that they can’t have it all. Generally,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Culum

I think “everyone knows that” makes the “point”…

Stay tuned for riveting posts on sun rising in the East, the wetness of water and women are illogical.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Culum Okay, I’m not trying to tell anyone who they should bang. Not my business, and it’s a personal preference. I spend more time around 16-25 year old girls I’d wager than anyone on here that’s not a teacher -lol, and have raised a few myself, so I don’t *see* them, most of them, exactly the same as a lot of my brethren. So yeah, I’m like ” meh “, but if guys find them new and hot and exciting or whatever, because they are young, more power to them. Go forth and bang. Just mind that pedestal!!! I’ve… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

I almost wish JBP was playing 4-D chess and not criticizing women directly because he knows he should “just get it” instead of stating it explicitly. Demonstrate don’t explicate and all that. Would make sense in light of the Cathy Newman interview. It’s too bad his interaction with his wife makes it pretty clear that ain’t the case.

Mitch
Mitch
4 years ago

Culum, “and it’s clear that even with mild changes of my position on MeToo and the like, I’ve started to get a bit of a “reputation”. It’s subtle, but it’s there. ” That has been happening to me big time. Not only at work, but in my friend circle, even with my parents. Its a bit disconcerting. Amusing too tho. I had to laugh at my father white knighting with my wife when they visited us over thanksgiving. I’ve NEVER seen this kind of behavior from him around any previous r’ship, or around either of my brother’s wives. At least… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

BTW on the older woman thing – I really think it became easier in my 30s. Not getting them into bed. More the acceptance in my head that I didn’t care what anyone else thought of who I banged or how old they were or whatever and I didn’t want to set any artificial limits – and I’d simply bang whoever I found attractive. I did sleep with a number of 40+ chicks in my mid 20s – it was almost a staple in the early years after I lost my virginity – but at that point it was more… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

@Mitch – yes. At least your parents won’t stop loving you. Think of the consequences in a professional circle etc and the tradeoff between that and suppressing what you really think..not easy.

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