The Marriage Game

As a few of my readers know my daughter is presently a sophomore at college. Every time she reaches a new milestone in her life I have a tendency to mentally go back in time in my own life and consider how utterly different her experiences are in comparison to my own. At 19 the thought of being as organized and honestly well off as she is in life now would never have occurred to me. For a very brief moment in my life back then I’d kept a journal of what it was I was doing and thinking at the time. My first ‘real’ girlfriend had given me this blank journal (she was one of those girls who wrote diaries) to write my thoughts in and being the Beta I was then most of it was filled with my Blue Pill frustration with girls. She’d gifted me this journal, I found out later, as an effort to absolve her of all the guilt she knew was coming her way for having cheated on me and deciding that, at 18 herself, she wanted to move on into her Party Years without the baggage of a dutiful Beta who thought he was going to marry her.

This was 1988 and the then 19 year old Rollo Tomassi was very much a typical Blue Pill Beta. I sometimes read back through the dozen or so pages I actually took the time to write back then to remind myself how I thought back then. I was very much and idealistic Beta back then, but I had several other friends who subscribed to the same Blue Pill delusions; and now with hindsight I realize this phase in a Beta’s life is one that was around long before and long after I went through it. This was the ‘Break Phase’ I outline in Preventive Medicine.

As it turned out, the girl who I predictably developed ONEitis for, the first girl to spread her legs for me (‘enthusiastically’), the girl I thought had to be “quality” if she appreciated a guy like me, was every bit the ‘play the field’ skank I would’ve never called her because it was what a “typical male” would say about her. At one point I had thought I’d want to marry her. My Blue Pill conditioning had taught me it would be the right, “supportive” thing to do; marry her and support her ambitions and goals (it’s what good Blue Pill boys ought to do) at the sacrifice of my own. And as directionless as I was then, that was an easy decision to make.

My daughter recently informed me that her boyfriend’s best friend just proposed to his girlfriend at 19. Both this guy and his girlfriend are also sophomores at the same school and this is what triggered the reminiscing for me. At 49, and having lived the life I have and the experiences I use on this blog today, I’m very glad my first girlfriend dumped me. That’s hard to say sometimes, particularly when I think back on the pit of misery years I spent with the BPD girlfriend I’d gotten involved with later, but I’m thankful for those bad experiences as much as the good ones. So, it’s really difficult for me to tell my daughter’s friend “oh, congratulations”.

It’s very difficult for me to endorse anyone getting married at so early an age these days or when I was 19. Modern marriage is a menagerie of horrors for today’s men. People say, “Rollo you’re married, how come you’re so hard on marriage?” It’s either that or they presume my marriage is a shit show and I’m venting like a petulant boy. When I’m critical of marriage it’s in spite of my own (very happy for 21 years) marriage. But I cannot condone it for men today – not in its present state. Hardline MGTOWs and PUAs agree on one thing, if you ever consider marriage you’re Blue Pill. I’ve written in many prior posts that I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment, but I do understand it. The risks today far outweigh the rewards, but still there are men who, even with Red Pill awareness, will still take it on.

There’s a running debate I have going on with Hunter Drew (The Family Alpha) and Tanner Guzy (Masculine Style) about how marriage is a lifestyle decision, and depending on how informed a man is about the risks he assumes and when he decides to get married, this decision is literally a question of life or death for that guy. Both these guys married early in life, both have kids, and both will have far different experiences than myself in this respect. Both of them and myself have assumed the risks and sacrifices this entails. I’m fully aware that my wife can detonate the marriage at any time. I’m sure both Hunter and Tanner are well aware that their wives also have the right to have them removed from their home and take their children away from them for any reason. But we’re all married, and as I wrote in Surrender, we have all willingly put ourselves in the most vulnerable position a man can be in; we’ve bet our lives, livelihoods and the future health and happiness of our kids and families on what today is the ultimate suckers bet for a man. And what’s worse, we cannot ever expect women or our wives to ever relate with just how dangerous a position we willingly put ourselves in.

So I’m thinking about all of this after my daughter tells me about this 19 year old kid proposing to his girlfriend. Statistically his marriage will end before he’s 28. I would also bet that, like myself at 19, he’s making a decision that will affect him and his fiancé’s based on Blue Pill idealism – an idealism that’s informed by the Feminine Imperative and delusions of egalitarian equalism. Naturally I can’t possibly think this is a good idea. If I were this boy’s father I’d strongly advise against it, but there are others in the manosphere who would encourage this.

“Grown” Men

There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”. I also disagree with this from the perspective of today’s version of marriage, but I understand how homey platitudes like this are appealing to a social order of men who it seems don’t want to grow up. It’s becoming a new way of AMOGing (particularly in religious circles); if you’ve got your shit together enough to see the wisdom in being married and starting a family you’re a “better man” than the ‘boys’ who they believe want to extend their adolescence. It’s really nothing new.

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

This is one half of strategic pluralism theory for men. Men who invest themselves in the long term aspect will always look for ways to validate their inability or unwillingness to pursue multiple partners. It’s easy to think that these men make their necessity a virtue, and that may or may not be the case, but what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect. The Blue Pill has always subjugated men to be predisposed to the one-mate investment strategy while simultaneously encouraging women to adopt a multiple mate strategy. That may seem counterintuitive, but when we look at the Sheryl Sandberg plan for Hypergamy we can see that what they believe is prudence is having a large selection of potential husbands from which to choose.

In Trad-Con manosphere thinking it seems like conventional wisdom to encourage men and women to marry younger. Look at where we’re at today; women forestall marriage – ostensibly to further a career, but really to falsely extend their Hypergamous decision making years – until their Epiphany Phase (29-31) or even beyond by freezing their eggs. Men take much more time to mature into their peak SMV potential, but what’s the common complaint? These men aren’t “being men” by preparing themselves for a life of family and marriage. They aren’t catering their lives’ decisions to fulfill women’s sexual strategy, and really what incentive do they have to when women are following the Sandbergian path of Hypergamy? Men and women marry later and later – if at all. Women unmarried by the time they’re 34-35 are likely to never marry in their lives.

Marrying Early

So it seems like wisdom to tell this kid, “good on you”, in spite of all the odds staked against him and despite the Blue Pill idealistic delusions that are prompting him to propose. Trad-Cons love the idea of a return to something resembling “traditional values” in order to save western culture from itself, but it’s important to remember that those old books values are really just leverage in a new books world.

Marrying early, as I said, is usually the result of Blue Pill naiveté. Both young men and women are still ignorant of who they are or who they have a potential to become. I see a lot of early-marrieds originating in religious circles because this is their only means to “legitimate” sex, but there are the guys who see marrying early a better way to ensure ‘permanent’ sex for themselves. In some respects it’s almost a blessing that women at this age are so anti-marriage – most young men on the investment side of strategic pluralism are far too willing to kill their own dreams to accommodate their investment.

Marriages that begin between 20-24 are almost 39% more likely to end in divorce. A lot of this, I speculate, is due to women feeling like they need to make up for missing out. The idealism of young Blue Pill men marrying early has one big obstacle and that’s the influence of Hypergamy on their wives. In Preventive Medicine I made the case that no matter the woman’s choices she makes or has made for her in life, it will not negate Hypergamy’s influence on her. Yes, that influence can be mitigated culturally (laughable in western societies) or personally, but it doesn’t remove the evolved influence. By the time that 20 year old mother and wife is 30, she’s had ten years to develop the resentment of her choice by living vicariously through her single girlfriends’ experiences. The context may change, but Hypergamy doesn’t.

Early marriage limits a man’s potential. Trad-Cons will fight me on this one, but the responsibilities of marriage and parenting will necessarily limit a man from opportunities he would otherwise have were he single. Aristotle said, “The Ideal age for marriage in men is 35. The Ideal age for marriage in women is 18”, not unlike my sexual market value graph, but the reason for this is because it takes much longer for a man to establish himself as a man. The simple truth is that part of the sacrifice of being married means a man will not be able to capitalize on opportunities he would have were he single. Some opportunities may never even be made available to him because of him being married. This isn’t something most early-marrying men consider.

Men who marry early and stick it out through their peak SMV years often feel the mid-life crisis (epiphany) years much more acutely. This is kind of the man’s making up for missing out resentment a wife may feel as she becomes more and more aware that she can’t compete in the SMP for a better Hypergamous prospect. I don’t believe men have a “crisis” per se around this time, but what they do experience is a sense of introspection that’s colored by their now better capacity to understand the game they’ve been a part of with regards to women. When a man’s married well this is less of an issue, but there is a definite remorse over the “life he could’ve lived” if only he’d known better. This is an assessment of the sacrifices he’s made, how they paid off (if at all) and a sort of survey of his life up to that point.

The biggest ‘con’ to early marriage is that it’s always going to be a learn as you go prospect while trying to establish a world that a his wife of the future will want to defer herself to. This worked far better in a culture and time when women would be compelled to defer to a man’s mastery due to religion, social norms and respect. We do not live in those day anymore and women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.

Advantages?

Early marriage has a few advantages, but all of these depend on the personal nature of the woman a man marries. That sounds kind of obvious, but if you go into a marriage with a solid Frame and a woman who expects to defer to your dominance, I think young marrieds might have a better shot at long term success. If a woman is a virgin, yes, this can be a real source of attachment for her if her husband imprints on her as solidly dominant Alpha. I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.

As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage. This might be the only advantage marriage may have for a man today. In an early marriage I would think that a woman being at her sexual market value peak, combined with following her true biological clock (her prime fertility window 22-26) the odds of having happy healthy children are improved. I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.

Finally, for the “well, duh” moment, it goes without saying that a young wife/mother should necessarily be playing on your team. The only possible successful prospect for a younger marriage to have any stability is if that woman understands what it is she’s sacrificing. Women likewise sacrifice their own personal potentials and later this becomes their source of resentment. The stakes are high for men, particularly if they aren’t Red Pill aware, but women too must understand her own sacrifices; I think this is the most difficult thing. Women’s solipsism, Hypergamous nature and a social order that ‘fempowers’ them to believe not only can they “have it all” but are entitled to it all makes this the bridge too far for young marriage.

In the Trad-Con sphere today there is a constant droning for personal responsibility on the part of men. There is little to none about the responsibilities of women. We’re constantly told that women are only the way they are because men have allowed it. I’ve written before that this is a cop out and an absolving of women’s complicity that mirrors what the Feminine Imperative has put forth. Women are taught not to do anything “for a man” and anything a woman does that might be expressly for a man is is conflated with subservience. Consequently we get generations of women who only indulge their natural solipsism and expect men’s sacrifices as part of the utilities. This is one of the primary reasons all marriages fail; there is no complementarity. Marriage becomes nothing but a naked exchange of resources on the part of the man and anything a woman might do ‘for’ him is frowned upon. And don’t think this is just limited to those blue haired feminists, you can find it at your church.

Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Damn fleezer. Lmao.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“poor schlub gets some paper . . .”

In the 20th century at least you had that, so you could at least kindle a fire with it or something.

MBA today gets some memory state. What the fuck are you supposed to do with memory state when the power goes off?

EhIntellect
5 years ago

Freezer,

I copied that for further use. Nice.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Fleezer

comment image

only thing he wants to perpetuate is the system that pays for his pussy tour package vacations and cunty handbag eating wife

this game ain’t for mba. he should go back to the office and play spreadsheet

Cold shiv of truth… and witty! can’t leave out witty.

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@Rob “Pretending the marriage game hasn’t changed in the last 30 years is just plain ignorance.” Nobody is saying the marriage game hasn’t changed… we discuss the first set’ vs ‘second set” of “books” ad nauseum. The first set contained a large amount of conventional red pill wisdom and praxeology, which is why traditional marriage worked for so many years without RP-awareness as a requirement.. The second set has removed all that and the result is laid bare for all who are able to see. The RP-aware man, re-inserting that missing RP praxeology has a chance of turning a failing… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Rugby:

I watched a bit of the sexologist’s video and it got me to thinking, “nice rack.”

@Sentient:

Forge the Sky called me the Ron White of TRM, but that was some time ago. I bow to Fleezer.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Blaximus

“80% of all that I am and know comes from association with other males over lifetime. So I don’t technically ‘ own ‘ much.”

Doesn’t that come with a corollary that guys trying to digest the red pill or employ game should employ?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

That would be wise.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Rob – Take the cotton out of your ears and stuff it in your mouth. You’ll notice you learn nothing by talking, and we are not here to be taught a thing by the likes of you. You are a cliche, an archetpye to us. We already know you’ve got a 50/50 chance at best of not just purple-pilling it for the rest of your life, and fucking it all up too. We don’t care if you agree with us. Get that, we aren’t interested in your fucked up thinking. We don’t find your question interesting or worthy. If you… Read more »

quartermoa
5 years ago

mba. Lmao.

@Rob
I repeat and know you recognize, your marriage is on life support. Stay around here if that is something you want to work on. The same guys giving you a hard time about your marriage comments can really help.

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

Trump is to Blame for the #METOO Movement.

Give feminists his head and this all goes away…

Ha ha haHa ha haHa ha haHa ha haHa ha haHa ha ha

So she says….

Don’t buy any of that. They will never get “enough.” It’s not just about a person or one thing. It is a constant moving target.

M Simon
5 years ago

Rob
February 7, 2018 at 8:22 am

When I got married the risk/reward was irrelevant to me.

It still is.

Mineter
Mineter
5 years ago

@Scribb

Fuck no, I am not Mark Minter.

I found TRM 3 years ago. I don’t know if I saw him get taken down in real time, but I remember it all in chronological order. He was a charlatan (well, up until he got himself that mail order bride or ex carousel rider or whatever).

That explains your vitriol, I guess.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . .he got himself that mail order bride or ex carousel rider or whatever. . . ”

That would be the Kate who commented proximate to the time you did.

M Simon
5 years ago

Rob
February 7, 2018 at 9:38 am

You do understand that logic is at best 10% of the universe.

BTW I made my living with logic. 1010 1100 1110

What is WILL worth?

SJB
SJB
5 years ago

What is WILL worth?

An ACE in the hole. Very clever.

M Simon
5 years ago

scribblerg February 7, 2018 at 1:23 pm We don’t find your question interesting or worthy. If you listened instead of arguing like a chimpanzee on meth, you might have realized that. People get married for all kinds of reasons. Women are all different too, you might choose one cuz she’s a good cook, another because she’s docile, and another cuz she’s just the right amount of bratty (my weakness, l love nothing better than taming a brat, her submission is so sweet…) I picked mine because she was as broken as I could handle. About a 9. With Cs (I… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

SJB
February 7, 2018 at 2:52 pm

It was the best I could come up with on the spur of the moment.

LOL.

Nice to have another bit fan around. :-}

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
5 years ago

Rob said – “For every person you truly convert to a 100% red pill alpha that visits this site that ends up working for them, there will be 20 that stay blue or purple that probably have their lives turned upside down.” Possibly I’m misunderstanding here, and welcome course corrections if so. Staying blue pill is the equivalent of “life turned upside down”. It was already upside down and you don’t know it, or you know it but can’t put your finger on exactly why or how. You can answer many of those questions here. Once you begin, staying blue… Read more »

Mineter
Mineter
5 years ago

@kfg

Kate! Now I remember.

Lol, Scribble’s post is hilariously understandable when you point that out.

Why the fuck is she even here?

M Simon
5 years ago

Lost Patrol
February 7, 2018 at 3:01 pm

?Rob said –

“For every person you truly convert to a 100% red pill alpha that visits this site that ends up working for them, there will be 20 that stay blue or purple that probably have their lives turned upside down.”

LP – nice find. I missed that.

I might add – How FI he is.

Dangerous knowledge indeed.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@Rollo So I reread Meaning of Sacrifice.. Still interested in your hypothetical defeating of the Law, and how most men don’t have the stomach. Didn’t really get that from the article. Anyway, the law definitely seems to hold. For me, in this latest episode, this woman needed nothing from anyone. Not only was she fairly comfortable financially, had all of her shit together, and was perfectly capable of simply being alone, she also had a supreme work ethic, and worked at her job as if she had nothing to fall back on at all. She was a great lady in… Read more »

Rob
Rob
5 years ago

@ M Simon “I might add – How FI he is.” HAHAHAHA! That is seriously the funniest thing I’ve heard in months. Glad I actually checked. You do realize the entire institution of marriage was started and exists to serve the FI? The entire point of marriage started to provide protection, shelter and comfort for a woman and her offspring (and for the aristocracy for political alliances). At least back in the day (pre 1960s), women were kept in check both legally (eg: no such thing as spousal rape) and socially (financially ruined, used goods and later “slut”). Those are… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Gamesters… https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/understanding-narcissism/201801/why-is-it-so-hard-leave-the-narcissist-in-your-life I brought her over to him. He bent down and put his face near hers while I held her leash. She lunged to bite him. Before she could get her teeth into him, he punched her in the side of her head. Then he quickly petted her and said, “Good doggy, good doggy!” She gave him an evil look and went for him. He punched her again, petted her, and said “Good doggy, good doggy!” She paused and looked at him and I could see the wheels turning in her head. She sat down in front of him… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Rob

Back so soon? Yawn…

You do realize the entire institution of marriage was started and exists to serve the FI?

I thought it was just a social construct?

Rob
Rob
5 years ago

LMAO – funnier and funnier. Do you even know what a social construct is?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/social_construct
A concept or perception of something based on the collective views developed and maintained within a society or social group; a social phenomenon or convention originating within and cultivated by society or a particular social group, as opposed to existing inherently or naturally.

Marriage was and is a social construct designed to support FI.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

What’s meant by ” human side “? Does ” human side ” connote weakness in any manner when displayed? yareally used to talk about new relationship energy. Once ( or 10 times ), he said something to the effect that after a while when she sees you in your holey underwear on the couch, the relationship always starts changing/ disintegrating somehow, and it was inevitable and a downside to ltr’s. I disagreed. If you change things about yourself because you’ve met a woman, and you’re trying to impress her, that’s false and you’re presenting yourself as something you’re not. That’s… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Rob: “The entire point of marriage started to provide . . .”

. . . men with paternity.

” . . . back in the day (pre 1960s) . . .”

Were you there?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol. Rollo star to to go on a tear. Yaaasssss!!!!!!

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

In 10 hears I’ll be telling young cats ” I used to read Rollo back in the day, and we even interacted with him personally on his b!og all the time “. And of course, I’ll be accused of being full of shit.

Can’t wait!!!

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

… 10 years.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Blaximus and Marko Couldn’t resist this in light of Blaximus’ story about Argument. Chapter 21 of TWSM: Stay With Her Intensity To a Point When a woman gets emotionally intense, a mediocre man wants to calm her down and discuss it, or leave and come back later when she is “sane.”A superior man penetrates her mood with imperturbable love and unwavering consciousness. If she still refuses to live more fully in love, after a time, he lets her go. If you are like most men, you probably aren’t too fond of feminine bad moods and hysterical emotions. You may find… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

SJF February 7, 2018 at 12:21 pm @Blaximus “80% of all that I am and know comes from association with other males over lifetime. So I don’t technically ‘ own ‘ much.” Doesn’t that come with a corollary that guys trying to digest the red pill or employ game should employ? Blaximus February 7, 2018 at 12:46 pm That would be wise. What I was farming for you to say was the corollary should be is that males should associate with males in male only spaces over their lifetime. And not just any males. The proper ones. You know, masculine,… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

EhIntellect….

????

What the fuck are you?

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

Ehintellect,

Are you an “intellectual” ?

Half the time you parrot manosphere memes, The,other half you seem to contradict them. Are you even thinking for yourself at all or are you just vacillating over all this trying to find a way to optimize a way to masturbate your ego?

WTF is up with you?

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

“When a woman gets emotionally intense, a mediocre man wants to calm her down and discuss it, or leave and come back later when she is “sane.”A superior man penetrates her mood with imperturbable love and unwavering consciousness”

That the gayest shit I’ve read in awhile. “A superior man” “imperturbable love” (what the FUCK is that?!) “unwavering consciousness”…..Goddamn is this man the galactic savior of all pussy in the universe???

Any man worth a shit would laugh his ass off over this shit and be rather amused about her emotional cartwheels.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“That the gayest shit I’ve read in awhile.” Lol. If you can’t translate the new agey-gay tone of the 1997 proto-red pill (Without the Game Element.) or you aren’t in a decent LTR then don’t even fucking bother. Put on the side bar at Married Red Pill Reddit at the Graduate Level. Endorsed by Goldmund Unleashed in The 25 best books he’s read: Another book that has been a major influence. If you are looking to mature as a man, this book is a must read. It has some of the most mature thoughts on sexuality that you will ever… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

End blockquote after Goldmunds quote: It will help you appreciate the gifts that femininity bestows and allow you to understand the balance between man and woman..

After that was my comment.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

“You must avoid incongruent signaling.

Give me a definition of ” human side ” and let’s see if it’s incongruent with masculinity.”
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comment image?oh=98721333a6cb2e9f7fcfef3a31e89964&oe=5ADD7180
comment image?oh=b25ba20babf901198d0a0613b04961cc&oe=5B1DB70E

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
5 years ago

@Rob, if you are for real, your marriage is in more trouble than you think, some pretty big red flags, especially the overspending, it’s a sign of a much deeper problem. As others have pointed out to you, most healthy women want children, even if they say they don’t it’s your job to understand these things and act appropriately, there is a good chance your wife wants kids, don’t expect her to come out and tell you that because if she does it will be too late, she will send signals. It’s your job to read those signals and act… Read more »

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
5 years ago

@Tuffluv, @Rollo On Briffault’s Law, as has been stated, it is possible to “hack” this rule with a woman, I have seen it firsthand via some type of enmeshment/co-dependency(maybe)/deep conversion, etc. This however is not easy to maintain because it requires you to “implant” part of your living personality/spirit into the woman’s core being/psyche and it brings into question if this is even healthy for the man or the woman. This could be useful for LTRs/Marriages but it brings considerations of morality(if you care about it) and most importantly as highlighted by Rollo: “Is the juice worth the squeeze”, something… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

FoxGuy February 7, 2018 at 10:53 pm Well. I dunno. I pointed out to the LTR that her core (we call her Crystal) wanted me badly while her personality overlay (we call her Ms. Pain) was at least very sceptical if not outright hostile. My “job” was to strengthen her core while eliminating the hostile (angry at everything) overlay. This included teaching her core to speak. And teaching the overlay to shut up. The general method (and underlying understanding) is outlined in a book, “The Fourth Way” by P.D. Ouspensky. Published in the late 1940s IIRC. The underlying understanding is… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

The Fourth Way (1957) is a book about the Fourth Way system of self-development as introduced by Greek-Armenian philosopher G.I. Gurdjieff and is a compilation of the lectures of P. D. Ouspensky at London and New York City, 1921–1946, published posthumously by his students in 1957.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Way_(book)

==

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Fourth-Way-by-Ouspensky.pdf

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Kate!”

About day after she posted the link to Scott’s, American Dad went on privacy mode.
That’s a strange coincidence I have to wonder if it’s related? I liked that blog.

EhIntellect
5 years ago

NBTM

Hi.

I’m yam who I yam.

You’re quite clever.

Yes, I’m too intellectual by half.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
5 years ago

@NBTM: “That the gayest shit I’ve read in awhile. “A superior man” “imperturbable love” (what the FUCK is that?!) “unwavering consciousness”…..Goddamn is this man the galactic savior of all pussy in the universe???”

Yes, that is what Jordon Peterson is trying to be “the galactic saviour of all pussy in the universe”. And he wants his followers to be like this too.

EhIntellect
5 years ago

Hi Incubus,

I know where you’re coming from. I really do.

The difference, IMHO, is JP comes from a “serve the feminine” perspective.

Men can and do love women, and women, men.

The point of LTR/MRP is who is serving, following whom.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Mineter – Very sorry. I’m only here occasionally and the little bits I saw were similar, my bad. Minter used to show up here and I finally burned him down to the point of shutting him up on this site. Fyi, why? Cuz he actually abandoned his kids to go smoke weed and screw off, living in his sister’s basement spending hours a day commenting on Red Pill sites. He was presenting himself as some arch Red Piller with searing insights into marriage etc. Nope, he’s just a pothead loser, mooching, irresponsible piece of shit. Fyi, I love weed –… Read more »

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
5 years ago

JBP, is highly interesting character, highly engaging, presents his ideas/theories in a very engaging manner , especially to the current generation. His self development ideas are pretty good, especially the implementations, they resonate highly even with me. In essence his message is good, if you have a good red pill base, JBP is icing on the cake and of course you see Red Pill underpinnings in the message. His videos make perfect sense from a red pill perspective. However, stand alone JBP is missing large holes especially when it comes to the nature of women, and it is a big… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Re: Jordan Peterson – His egalitarianism is the problem with almost all of his views. Once I understood that women were not my equal, I got along with them so much better…He should learn this. Also, his wife’s arms are more muscular than his…odd. Some might take that statement at face value and think it’s boorish, but in reality it’s a very deep thought. What does “equal” even mean? It means that two or more things called equal are the same. Imagine the cognitive dissonance that exists in JP’s mind trying to work his way around this obvious truth while… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

I posted before editing, sorry. I meant to say I bet Jordan Peterson’s wife is aching to be fucked like the dirty little slut she is…Fyi, for those of you who don’t know, they are all aching to be fucked like the dirty sluts they are. Big learning for me, like I never actually thought this was true. And if she objects when you treat her like that, what she’s really saying is that I don’t see you as high enough value to be a dirty slut with you. More pointed? She’s saving her porn star sexuality for the “right… Read more »

EhIntellect
5 years ago

“You may think you can easily fight back against the overwhelming amount of Prog-Marxist/SJW-Radical social conditioning that we all have shoved down our throats, but you’d be wrong if you did.“

I’ve wasted a lot of breath rationally, righteously explaining unmitigated hypergamy dangers. The day I stopped fighting the world, I allowed myself to calm down, think of a better way to live.

One might say a “superior way of man.”

It works and benefits all.

EhIntellect
5 years ago

That wasn’t directed at you scrib…more me living IRL.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Re-read 1984 or read it for the first time if you never have. It’s like the SJWs used it for an instruction manual.”

it was written from the instruction manual.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
5 years ago

Interesting story. Women have sided with the State ….. and a Father has no authority over his own children.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/father-chops-off-daughter%e2%80%99s-hair-after-mother-treats-her-to-highlights/ar-BBIOeFN?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=DELLDHP

“The father and stepmother, who both work as firefighters, have allegedly been suspended from work.”

I know it is not right to chop of her hair, but it is only hair, it will fucking grow back. But the man will not get his livelihood back.

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
5 years ago

scribblerg, “This is true for many of you married guys here too. Remember, every single woman on earth will be a down and dirty, cum-guzzling, ass fucking, screaming and howling sex partner with the “right guy”. If your partner isn’t that way with you, well you ain’t doing it right…Start by fucking her harder than you think you should and see how she reacts.” That’s the key point, this is the abyss/truth where JBP won’t go, because it might actually shatter his world and all this theories with regards to women and his life most likely. This has been the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

scribblerg February 8, 2018 at 6:51 am “His egalitarianism is the problem with almost all of his views. Once I understood that women were not my equal, I got along with them so much better…He should learn this….” “…You may think you can easily fight back against the overwhelming amount of Prog-Marxist/SJW-Radical social conditioning that we all have shoved down our throats, but you’d be wrong if you did.“ Jordan Peterson’s inter-sexual egalitarianism in red pill context, gives us red pill junkies fits. Because it is dangerous in blue pill and WK form for understanding RP principles. The thing is… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
5 years ago

Hi EhIntellect, The point is when I look at JBP’s videos from a Red Pilled Perspective it infuriates me, especially the shaming language he uses against men, it is no different than a feminist complaining that men are loser, they need to man-up. This guy puts vagina on a pedestal. This video here makes me sick. The shaming language, the shameful laughs of females in the audience on the plight of the “low status guys”, even JBP saying “these guys don’t matter”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVKfH5XSdM4 He has a list of a million points what man needs to do, but not a single… Read more »

EhIntellect
5 years ago

Check them leather slacks. Oh yeah she wants the D. Incubus, It’s a baby-bath water thing. Too strict a philosophical litmus test and TRM, RP groups wither on the vine. I’m not disagreeing with you…but I know you, a guy with your level of unplugging, is above getting infuriated over JP. Your words, hee. He’s not really hurting our cause, perhaps helping, if it can ever be accurately measured. It’s not like some JP fan, takes JP womanizing advice and smashes it sexually…more for us. No? No joke, Incubus. I’m in the business. Long term catechollamine levels are rough on… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . the plight of the “low status guys”, even JBP saying “these guys don’t matter”.”

Yes, for the modern, egalitarian man (of which Toronto is full of) that is probably the bitterest and hardest bit of the Red Pill to choke down.

SJB
SJB
5 years ago

@Incubus_Rising: what would you expect him to say to females? “Women, loosen your subconscious selection criteria”?

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
5 years ago

EhIntellect: You are right. I have read enough of TRM to be infuriated by this. He does not hurt our cause. Maybe I should stop hitting the play button when his videos show up in threads or newsfeeds. Need some time off from watching his videos. I respect him when he takes a stand for free speech and fights the SJWs. Not so much when he talks about inter-sexual dynamics. The guys he calls “low status” and the ones “who don’t matter” are the ones we know as normal men who got “zeroed out”. And at this forum everyone especially… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Incubus_Rising February 8, 2018 at 8:15 am Well. I dunno. What he says is true. Think about it from around here. Can’t get a woman? Absolutely pathetic. Can’t keep a woman? Pathetic. Now we can offer advice. As does Peterson. But the attitude is there. The attitude to MGTOW is similar. “Can’t even compete, eh? Covering it up by pretending unwillingness, are you?” Women select – even the Alpha (unless he is a rapist) is at their mercy. What do we learn in Red Pill? How to get selected. And then how to maintain that selection (LTR Game). I don’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . the OMGs try to help the ones who have been zeroed out . . .”

. . . by helping them to understand how to man up.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“your genes should not pass on to the next generation”.

Life.Is.Not.Fair. You are not owed anything just because you are alive. Live is a competition, death are the stakes.

M Simon
5 years ago

The really sad fact is that 80% of men will never make the cut without enforced monogamy.

And if all men raise their game? The women will recalibrate and it will still only be the top 20% of men who mate.

Rollo is making it worse for all men. We are going to have to work harder to make the cut. LOL.

Still. I’d rather have the information than fly blind. I’ll improve my game and take my chances.

EhIntellect
5 years ago

“your genes should not pass on to the next generation”

Quite the motivator. It takes inordinate psychological defenses to deny it. Case in point…Rob. I ask him one question about his epitaph and he’s talking seventh level of hell Groundhog Day shit “I don’t care what my epitaph says.”.

No one believed him.

It’s about kids, but isn’t too.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

no shit, I’ll play the fucking game, now that I know better the rules; that changes everything, including my attitude which solves most of the problem anyway

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

hope hicks was itching to join the black eye club

they all are

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
5 years ago

@kfg:

“Life.Is.Not.Fair. You are not owed anything just because you are alive. Live is a competition, death are the stakes.”

I understand that very well.

After decades of blue pill indoctrination via family, societal norms, religion, it was very hard to bring myself back from the verge of being “zeroed out”.

“Nature is amoral”.

EhIntellect
5 years ago

Rob, MBA, big time income, does what ever he wants….

https://youtu.be/M628DuIEZ_o

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

“. . . by helping them to understand how to man up.”

Nice P-A poke there… Care to cite specific posts or are you just stirring the pot because you can.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Incubus Rising: Ergo, there is nothing wrong with JP telling men that they are pathetic and that they need to man up. It is the thing the “don’t judge me” maggots need telling. “Kill the Beta” is just another way of saying, “Christ Almighty, let your balls drop already.” Where one must look for his error is in what he tells men “manning up” is. And the first thing he tells them is “stop saying things that make you weak,” and the second thing is “be dangerous.” So up until then he’s still on track. @Eh Intellect: Rob does not… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Nice P-A poke there…”

Really? I guess I’ll have to try to poke harder next time. It was not my intention to be the least bit P.

“… Care to cite specific posts . . .”

https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/
https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/30/there-is-no-one/
https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/16/hypergamy-doesnt-care/
https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/19/the-cardinal-rule-of-relationships/
https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

And you can keep going through The Best of.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“… Care to cite specific posts . . .”

In moderation for too many links.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“I have no idea what he thinks about retirement.”

We all know what he’s thinking about retirement. A completion in life. As long as his wife doesn’t leave him before then. Heh.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Because of the influence of the FI , there seems to be tremendous push back and resistance among men to the notion that they may need to ” man up “. Think about how odd that is for a moment, FI notwithstanding. Men participating actively in the death of masculinity. Pathetic men do indeed exist in fairly great numbers. Numbers large enough to affect the whole. But ” pathetic ” doesn’t have anything to do with the ability to ” get a woman “. That may be an indicator or a side effect, but ” pathetic ” is a direct… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

I used to think similarly to Rob at a point in my life, so I’m slow to get on him about his views financially.. There was a short lived period where I was overly concerned with the payoff, roi, and monetary bottom lining constantly. Successes only served to feed that monster. In the end it was a miserable period, yet profitable, but my mode of thought allowed a nasty side effect of applying the roi principles in aspects of my life where they didn’t belong. All of life became a ” job “. Normal, simple things required calculations. It’s hard… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“We all know what he’s thinking about retirement. A completion in life.”

That is why I tend to hang out with people much younger than myself. They may well be full of misguided arrogance about their ignorance, but they do not actually think of themselves as “done.”

I’ll note that it isn’t something I do deliberately, it’s an emergent property of what I do and where I do it. You might bump into me on a college campus today (say, visiting the kendo club), but you won’t find me in a “Retirement Living Community.”

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

“Really? I guess I’ll have to try to poke harder next time. It was not my intention to be the least bit P.”

No worries, I didn’t expect you would link actual posts (comments) from OMGs to make your point.

Claiming that RP aware men who share their stories of making marriage work in today’s hostile environment is an overt endorsement of marriage or an encouragement to ‘map up’ is disingenuous, at best.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Pinelero
Pinelero
5 years ago

@Rollo… I don’t get the “man-up” thing that trad-cons put out other than it’s an FI ploy to get men to be better resource providers. in the old books men qualified to women by being beta providers, but the FI freed men from that obligation when they also freed women to be openly hypergamous. A guy with no mission needs to find one, but his mission doesn’t have to agree with mine. If his mission is to be an awesome video game player and live off the system-then I’m not going to tell him to man-up. I will ask him… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

There are lots of ways to take “man-up”.

Figure out better ways to get more pussy is one.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I didn’t expect you would link actual posts (comments) from OMGs to make your point.” https://therationalmale.com/2018/02/02/the-marriage-game/comment-page-7/#comment-238949 “Because of the influence of the FI , there seems to be tremendous push back and resistance among men to the notion that they may need to ” man up “. Think about how odd that is for a moment, FI notwithstanding. Men participating actively in the death of masculinity.” There are two main reasons why men typically resist the idea of “manning up.” 1) They don waaaaaanna. 2) They have an idea in their head of what that means from some propagandistic narrative… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“To me an RP “man-up” is to swallow the red-pill and find yourself free of the FI matrix; whatever you do after that is up to you.”

Hey, that’s MGTOW!

But what about an OMG AFC who gets starfish sex twice a year (if he’s “lucky”) and is very, very unhappy about it? What specific things will he be recommended to do to get desire sex?

Who do hetero-sexual women desire to have sex with?

status confirmed
status confirmed
5 years ago

Scribblerg- “Once I understood that women were not my equal, I got along with them so much better…He should learn this.” I’ve found the same thing. This was a hard concept for me initially. I grew up in a household and liberal part of the country where that statement would be blasphemy. But that “egalitarian equalism” never matched up with my real world experience and left me wondering what I didn’t get (and why I was being taught something that didn’t make any sense in the real world). I solved it in my mind by asking are apples and oranges… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Rollo Tomassi
February 8, 2018 at 1:07 pm

I went to MMSL to see what it was about. Just hanging out on the opening page gave me a gut knot. I didn’t care to search there and find the cause. Life is too short.

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