The Marriage Game

As a few of my readers know my daughter is presently a sophomore at college. Every time she reaches a new milestone in her life I have a tendency to mentally go back in time in my own life and consider how utterly different her experiences are in comparison to my own. At 19 the thought of being as organized and honestly well off as she is in life now would never have occurred to me. For a very brief moment in my life back then I’d kept a journal of what it was I was doing and thinking at the time. My first ‘real’ girlfriend had given me this blank journal (she was one of those girls who wrote diaries) to write my thoughts in and being the Beta I was then most of it was filled with my Blue Pill frustration with girls. She’d gifted me this journal, I found out later, as an effort to absolve her of all the guilt she knew was coming her way for having cheated on me and deciding that, at 18 herself, she wanted to move on into her Party Years without the baggage of a dutiful Beta who thought he was going to marry her.

This was 1988 and the then 19 year old Rollo Tomassi was very much a typical Blue Pill Beta. I sometimes read back through the dozen or so pages I actually took the time to write back then to remind myself how I thought back then. I was very much and idealistic Beta back then, but I had several other friends who subscribed to the same Blue Pill delusions; and now with hindsight I realize this phase in a Beta’s life is one that was around long before and long after I went through it. This was the ‘Break Phase’ I outline in Preventive Medicine.

As it turned out, the girl who I predictably developed ONEitis for, the first girl to spread her legs for me (‘enthusiastically’), the girl I thought had to be “quality” if she appreciated a guy like me, was every bit the ‘play the field’ skank I would’ve never called her because it was what a “typical male” would say about her. At one point I had thought I’d want to marry her. My Blue Pill conditioning had taught me it would be the right, “supportive” thing to do; marry her and support her ambitions and goals (it’s what good Blue Pill boys ought to do) at the sacrifice of my own. And as directionless as I was then, that was an easy decision to make.

My daughter recently informed me that her boyfriend’s best friend just proposed to his girlfriend at 19. Both this guy and his girlfriend are also sophomores at the same school and this is what triggered the reminiscing for me. At 49, and having lived the life I have and the experiences I use on this blog today, I’m very glad my first girlfriend dumped me. That’s hard to say sometimes, particularly when I think back on the pit of misery years I spent with the BPD girlfriend I’d gotten involved with later, but I’m thankful for those bad experiences as much as the good ones. So, it’s really difficult for me to tell my daughter’s friend “oh, congratulations”.

It’s very difficult for me to endorse anyone getting married at so early an age these days or when I was 19. Modern marriage is a menagerie of horrors for today’s men. People say, “Rollo you’re married, how come you’re so hard on marriage?” It’s either that or they presume my marriage is a shit show and I’m venting like a petulant boy. When I’m critical of marriage it’s in spite of my own (very happy for 21 years) marriage. But I cannot condone it for men today – not in its present state. Hardline MGTOWs and PUAs agree on one thing, if you ever consider marriage you’re Blue Pill. I’ve written in many prior posts that I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment, but I do understand it. The risks today far outweigh the rewards, but still there are men who, even with Red Pill awareness, will still take it on.

There’s a running debate I have going on with Hunter Drew (The Family Alpha) and Tanner Guzy (Masculine Style) about how marriage is a lifestyle decision, and depending on how informed a man is about the risks he assumes and when he decides to get married, this decision is literally a question of life or death for that guy. Both these guys married early in life, both have kids, and both will have far different experiences than myself in this respect. Both of them and myself have assumed the risks and sacrifices this entails. I’m fully aware that my wife can detonate the marriage at any time. I’m sure both Hunter and Tanner are well aware that their wives also have the right to have them removed from their home and take their children away from them for any reason. But we’re all married, and as I wrote in Surrender, we have all willingly put ourselves in the most vulnerable position a man can be in; we’ve bet our lives, livelihoods and the future health and happiness of our kids and families on what today is the ultimate suckers bet for a man. And what’s worse, we cannot ever expect women or our wives to ever relate with just how dangerous a position we willingly put ourselves in.

So I’m thinking about all of this after my daughter tells me about this 19 year old kid proposing to his girlfriend. Statistically his marriage will end before he’s 28. I would also bet that, like myself at 19, he’s making a decision that will affect him and his fiancé’s based on Blue Pill idealism – an idealism that’s informed by the Feminine Imperative and delusions of egalitarian equalism. Naturally I can’t possibly think this is a good idea. If I were this boy’s father I’d strongly advise against it, but there are others in the manosphere who would encourage this.

“Grown” Men

There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”. I also disagree with this from the perspective of today’s version of marriage, but I understand how homey platitudes like this are appealing to a social order of men who it seems don’t want to grow up. It’s becoming a new way of AMOGing (particularly in religious circles); if you’ve got your shit together enough to see the wisdom in being married and starting a family you’re a “better man” than the ‘boys’ who they believe want to extend their adolescence. It’s really nothing new.

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

This is one half of strategic pluralism theory for men. Men who invest themselves in the long term aspect will always look for ways to validate their inability or unwillingness to pursue multiple partners. It’s easy to think that these men make their necessity a virtue, and that may or may not be the case, but what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect. The Blue Pill has always subjugated men to be predisposed to the one-mate investment strategy while simultaneously encouraging women to adopt a multiple mate strategy. That may seem counterintuitive, but when we look at the Sheryl Sandberg plan for Hypergamy we can see that what they believe is prudence is having a large selection of potential husbands from which to choose.

In Trad-Con manosphere thinking it seems like conventional wisdom to encourage men and women to marry younger. Look at where we’re at today; women forestall marriage – ostensibly to further a career, but really to falsely extend their Hypergamous decision making years – until their Epiphany Phase (29-31) or even beyond by freezing their eggs. Men take much more time to mature into their peak SMV potential, but what’s the common complaint? These men aren’t “being men” by preparing themselves for a life of family and marriage. They aren’t catering their lives’ decisions to fulfill women’s sexual strategy, and really what incentive do they have to when women are following the Sandbergian path of Hypergamy? Men and women marry later and later – if at all. Women unmarried by the time they’re 34-35 are likely to never marry in their lives.

Marrying Early

So it seems like wisdom to tell this kid, “good on you”, in spite of all the odds staked against him and despite the Blue Pill idealistic delusions that are prompting him to propose. Trad-Cons love the idea of a return to something resembling “traditional values” in order to save western culture from itself, but it’s important to remember that those old books values are really just leverage in a new books world.

Marrying early, as I said, is usually the result of Blue Pill naiveté. Both young men and women are still ignorant of who they are or who they have a potential to become. I see a lot of early-marrieds originating in religious circles because this is their only means to “legitimate” sex, but there are the guys who see marrying early a better way to ensure ‘permanent’ sex for themselves. In some respects it’s almost a blessing that women at this age are so anti-marriage – most young men on the investment side of strategic pluralism are far too willing to kill their own dreams to accommodate their investment.

Marriages that begin between 20-24 are almost 39% more likely to end in divorce. A lot of this, I speculate, is due to women feeling like they need to make up for missing out. The idealism of young Blue Pill men marrying early has one big obstacle and that’s the influence of Hypergamy on their wives. In Preventive Medicine I made the case that no matter the woman’s choices she makes or has made for her in life, it will not negate Hypergamy’s influence on her. Yes, that influence can be mitigated culturally (laughable in western societies) or personally, but it doesn’t remove the evolved influence. By the time that 20 year old mother and wife is 30, she’s had ten years to develop the resentment of her choice by living vicariously through her single girlfriends’ experiences. The context may change, but Hypergamy doesn’t.

Early marriage limits a man’s potential. Trad-Cons will fight me on this one, but the responsibilities of marriage and parenting will necessarily limit a man from opportunities he would otherwise have were he single. Aristotle said, “The Ideal age for marriage in men is 35. The Ideal age for marriage in women is 18”, not unlike my sexual market value graph, but the reason for this is because it takes much longer for a man to establish himself as a man. The simple truth is that part of the sacrifice of being married means a man will not be able to capitalize on opportunities he would have were he single. Some opportunities may never even be made available to him because of him being married. This isn’t something most early-marrying men consider.

Men who marry early and stick it out through their peak SMV years often feel the mid-life crisis (epiphany) years much more acutely. This is kind of the man’s making up for missing out resentment a wife may feel as she becomes more and more aware that she can’t compete in the SMP for a better Hypergamous prospect. I don’t believe men have a “crisis” per se around this time, but what they do experience is a sense of introspection that’s colored by their now better capacity to understand the game they’ve been a part of with regards to women. When a man’s married well this is less of an issue, but there is a definite remorse over the “life he could’ve lived” if only he’d known better. This is an assessment of the sacrifices he’s made, how they paid off (if at all) and a sort of survey of his life up to that point.

The biggest ‘con’ to early marriage is that it’s always going to be a learn as you go prospect while trying to establish a world that a his wife of the future will want to defer herself to. This worked far better in a culture and time when women would be compelled to defer to a man’s mastery due to religion, social norms and respect. We do not live in those day anymore and women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.

Advantages?

Early marriage has a few advantages, but all of these depend on the personal nature of the woman a man marries. That sounds kind of obvious, but if you go into a marriage with a solid Frame and a woman who expects to defer to your dominance, I think young marrieds might have a better shot at long term success. If a woman is a virgin, yes, this can be a real source of attachment for her if her husband imprints on her as solidly dominant Alpha. I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.

As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage. This might be the only advantage marriage may have for a man today. In an early marriage I would think that a woman being at her sexual market value peak, combined with following her true biological clock (her prime fertility window 22-26) the odds of having happy healthy children are improved. I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.

Finally, for the “well, duh” moment, it goes without saying that a young wife/mother should necessarily be playing on your team. The only possible successful prospect for a younger marriage to have any stability is if that woman understands what it is she’s sacrificing. Women likewise sacrifice their own personal potentials and later this becomes their source of resentment. The stakes are high for men, particularly if they aren’t Red Pill aware, but women too must understand her own sacrifices; I think this is the most difficult thing. Women’s solipsism, Hypergamous nature and a social order that ‘fempowers’ them to believe not only can they “have it all” but are entitled to it all makes this the bridge too far for young marriage.

In the Trad-Con sphere today there is a constant droning for personal responsibility on the part of men. There is little to none about the responsibilities of women. We’re constantly told that women are only the way they are because men have allowed it. I’ve written before that this is a cop out and an absolving of women’s complicity that mirrors what the Feminine Imperative has put forth. Women are taught not to do anything “for a man” and anything a woman does that might be expressly for a man is is conflated with subservience. Consequently we get generations of women who only indulge their natural solipsism and expect men’s sacrifices as part of the utilities. This is one of the primary reasons all marriages fail; there is no complementarity. Marriage becomes nothing but a naked exchange of resources on the part of the man and anything a woman might do ‘for’ him is frowned upon. And don’t think this is just limited to those blue haired feminists, you can find it at your church.

Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“That in no way means that life is suffering as per the Peterson (Zen) doctrine . . .” “Life is Suffering” is a translation, and a very misleading one. A better, idiomatic, translation would be “Life isn’t just a bowl of cherries.” You will catch a cold, knick yourself shaving, stub your toe, fail to get something you really, really wanted, get it but be disappointed by it, be too hot for comfort in the summer, and too cold in the winter, squashed on the windshield of life, or, if you avoid that, simply decay away. Life is not unending… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@status unconfirmed

The phrase tossed around here that solidified my understanding of how to see women was “most mature teenager in the house”. Once I saw them that way interacting with them became pretty simple and I was able to set my expectations accordingly. Doesn’t really change with their age either.

Oscar C.
4 years ago

Exactly Rollo, very well put. I suspect many will scoff at this, but I think that “traditional masculinity” (as in being self-reliant, responsible, etc) is no longer enough. The Red Pill is the required next step, which includes a heavy dose of amped-up sexualization. As @zipper showed with that NYT article about porn, we live in an era radically different to those before us. A beast has been unleashed. I see everywhere talk about rough sex, chocking, etc. Where the fuck do people learn that, seriously? It is as if the most debased elements of society get to dictate what… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . 1820 France was radically different from 1780 France.”

The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there . . . and that’s just wrong and they should be made to stop that.

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

Ok, I just read Rollo comment… as one who has seen men beaten with ‘man up’ by the FI and it’s cronies like it was a bludgeon, processing any other connotation feels very foreign.

Men wrestling it back for our own purposes, using Rollo’s definition, is particularly appealing.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“… as one who has seen men beaten with ‘man up’ by the FI and it’s cronies like it was a bludgeon, processing any other connotation feels very foreign.” Right, which is why I took no offense at your offense. I knew the voices you were talking to weren’t mine, even if you attributed them to me. Nor did I take offense at the “accusation” that I was stirring the pot. I don’t take that as inherently derogatory either. Certainly I was stirring the pot. If you don’t stir the pot, the stew burns. “Men wrestling it back for our… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

RP Man up?

What we tried beating into Rob.

Shed the stupid and two feet on the success pedal.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

“Who do hetero-sexual women desire to have sex with?” Chad thunder Cock Rollo it’s fine. Didn’t realize about the series. Pinelero “man-up” For me i went to Blake’s funeral at a church and as i gave my parting words the church Neon sign read “manning up lecture sunday 12pm” i had a gut reaction of anger and sadness. First of all i wasn’t ever considered a man in terms of respect from a female point of view. My family dynamics where heavy and alway’s invovled emotional validation. The way to move past that is to respect myself where i am… Read more »

Incubus_rising
Incubus_rising
4 years ago

@Oscar: “I think that “traditional masculinity” (as in being self-reliant, responsible, etc) is no longer enough. The Red Pill is the required next step, which includes a heavy dose of amped-up sexualization.”

Well said. 100% Agree.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

KFG: Who do hetero-sexual women desire to have sex with?
Rugby: Chad thunder Cock

Or, less provocatively; men. Those they perceive as men and not just their worker units. So, if you want desire sex, you will have to be what women desire.

There’s really no way around that, and if you don’t like it, well, hypergamy doesn’t care.

Incubus_rising
Incubus_rising
4 years ago

Great comment on “manning Up” Rollo. This is exactly where JBP loses out. His idea of “manning up” is to do more of the Beta stuff or to be a greater beta at best. He will never go against egalitarian principles. I can appreciate when he explains Freudian or Jungian theories. But I reject the way he gives a blue pill spin to those concepts. Looking forward to listen to the Google hangout on Saturday. PS: I am not anti-JBP. I respect the man for his knowledge. I just don’t like his concept of “manning up”. In my blue pilled… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“This is exactly where JBP loses out. His idea of “manning up” is to do more of the Beta stuff or to be a greater beta at best. He will never go against egalitarian principles.”

Ah ha!

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Better example of RP Man Up.

I shed a lot of my beta fast and soon it opened my world to options I didn’t know existed. I knew they were there but considered them personally irrelevant.

Being dragged by the current sucked and I thought swimming against it was my only option to freedom.

Untrue.

I left the stream, per se. My life is of my creation now.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Or, less provocatively; men. Those they perceive as men and not just their worker units. So, if you want desire sex, you will have to be what women desire.”

I overheard Rob’s wife telling him: “I really want to fuck you with desire. But you have to be a desirable man I want to fuck.”

But I don’t think he heard her. He was too busy at the keyboard, telling people they were evil and shouldn’t ad hominem him, because, you know, men shouldn’t get married. Because it’s not worth it.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

JBP: He will never go against egalitarian equalism sexual strategy principles.

He compartmentalizes. And he will always have blinders on when the Red Pill is coming up in a horse race beside him. He’s accepted the blue pill and it’s long been fully digested insofar as only in the realm of inter-sexual relationships. But then again he has no motive to change his inter-sexual ideals.

Everything he speaks about in the political realm is anti-egalitarian. Did you not see the Cathy Newman interview? In the non-sexual realm he’s not egalitarian.

Incubus_rising
Incubus_rising
4 years ago

@Rob. Congratulations on your financial success. I am happy for you. But I guess you should not be distracted by contemplating whether marriage is good or bad. You are married now and that is your present situation, and you cannot change that without serious financial and emotional consequences. Based on what you have said about your wife …. a lot of warning lights have popped up on your dashboard, a crash is imminent. I am not married and I don’t think I ever will. But I refrain from advising other men to avoid marriage. Each man is different and just… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Gravity holds you to the Earth, but without gravity and the atmosphere, flight would not be possible.

Some men looked at the birds and cursed gravity. Some men looked at birds and figured out how they used gravity to apparently defy gravity, and those men took flight.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Chump No More

“When I hear ‘man-up’, I identify the context only as derogatory… is there any other definition which is not?”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo-QziDiznU

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4DJkeqT6-Dw

The end result.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

https://www.twitter.com/RationalMale/status/961750186602070016

Ruh roh…

Time for a tete a tete… Road trip to Toronto Rollo?

Or neutral ground? Chicago?

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg

Watching as feminists successfully execute their vendetta against attractive women is simultaneously hilarious and horrifying. At least it really seems to be horrifying some normies finally.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ OSCAR It’s not that I’m doubtful regarding the impact of technology. I’ve even stated so while you were away. I earn my bones via technology. But the way people/society at large utilize ” tech ” in their everyday lives is a real problem that will have devastating consequences. Those consequences are already becoming apparent. I just happen to think that lots of tech zombies could be saved and snapped out of their device induced stupors, if only those of us that aren’t addicted and stunted mentally interacted… Differently towards them. Right now many of us adults can witness the… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

The problem with “manning up”. You may get accused by Pound Me Too.

https://youtu.be/uvtZzfe2EpU

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

No lie, there was a song a few years ago, and I use the teem ” song ” lightly, where the female stated that her man ” eats her ass like groceries “. I heard throngs of women of various ages enthusiastically singing along anytime they were in earshot.

I may be ” old “, but there’s no place for those sentiments in a top ten nation wide hit song.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Blaximus Right now many of us adults can witness the negative changes in humans all around us, yet we look the other way and mind our business. I force them to interact by being charismatic and having a conversation with them, but every one of them flakes if you try to ring them up later to hang out. It’s not an age thing either. Everyone seems flaky as shit these days. Starting to wonder if part of tech-powered information overload is a form of social fatigue where the social interaction through their device leaves them too mentally tired to do… Read more »

mersonia
4 years ago

@Blax

M Simon
4 years ago

Blaximus
February 8, 2018 at 8:46 pm

A little ditty from about 50 years ago. I cued up to the important stuff.

https://youtu.be/moBF1qTL9s8?t=2m20s

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

“My life is of my creation now.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CftXqRRg_ek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJOUzPOG9U

“Some men looked at the birds and cursed gravity. Some men looked at birds and figured out how they used gravity to apparently defy gravity, and those men took flight.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHZjcfgk4CI

Be the man as the man.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sun

Social fatigue that makes sense.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Mersonia

Jhene is cute, but I ain’t eating her booty. Since that’s her motive evidently, she can eat mine with a raincheck.

Fuxking lyrics. Ha!!!!!

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
4 years ago

With regards to the overexposure among the young crowd, it presents an opportunity to distinguish and set yourself apart when it comes to the younger women and young guys also. It’s like it’s some damm echo chamber with the 20-28 crowd, they are all repeating the same thing over and over, my office is majority 22ish-28ish. The women are there for easy pickings, they crave male dominance and traditional male values but at the same time resent them outwardly, fucking tricky situation. It’s like approaching some drugged out Lion …….It might attack you ,it might not…… I had to literally… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Young crowd walk by kids coming from school. I suppose if i had the red pill upbringing i would have kept my dominance in check. Not an over seating statement of morality. Being responsible with learning how to communicate with the crowd or people around you is incredible in how to learn from the feedback. I suppose a sigma mindset was alway’s a part of being an outsider. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWow5qb2yUE The Country of the Blind World Without Values The Romantic Outsider The Attempt To Gain Control The Pain Threshold The Question of Identity The Great Synthesis . . . The Outsider… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/14/article-2558632-0000712000000CB2-358_306x423.jpg He had four wives, and from the time of his first marriage to Hadley in September 1921, aged 22, he was never without a female companion. But his love letters are ‘squelchy with baby language, pillow talk, sweet nothings and pet names like “kitty cat” ’, giggles Wood, 30. ‘He would call himself “your sweet feathered kitten”, or “big mountain” writing to “small friend”. I was intrigued how hyper-masculine Hemingway reconciled these deliciously treacly letters.’ Mrs Hemingway, published last week on Valentine’s eve, is not – despite its glamorous cast and globetrotting locations – frothy romantic escapism. ‘A friend asked,… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
October
October
4 years ago

This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. Are there really men who are still concerned whether they’re “alpha” or “beta”? Ya’ll aren’t fucking dogs, get your heads out of your asses. It’s not a fucking dominance competition, grow up. The author keeps writing about the wife being on the husband’s “team,” but I think he forgets what a “team” is; the players have to work together on equal ground. Sometimes there’s a captain who makes the calls, and that’s fine. But sometimes there is no designated captain and all of the success comes from the team members… Read more »

October
October
4 years ago

I forgot to mention in my last comment, but “imprinting” on virgins? That is some stupid bullshit, bro. What is this, Twilight or some shit? You gonna “imprint” on them like a creepy teenage werewolf on a newborn baby? If you’re with a virgin and they stick to you BECAUSE you’re their first lay, that’s a person who is either massively clingy, or massively insecure, and neither is a particularly nice personality trait. Your girl (or guy, whatever, I don’t judge) should want to stay with you because they enjoy you as a person, not because you’re the first person… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

Oh boy!! Another “know it all” feminist in the comments section. Arguing with them is like wresting in mud with a pig, at the end of it you realise the pig loves it. There is no hope for any rational debate with this one. Rollo should block her immediately.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@October

Marriages where both parties are on equal footing are far stronger bonded and far more stable than ones with unwanted, skewed power dynamics.

Citation needed.

@Incubus_Rising

Block them? Nonsense. They arrive with poor arguments and emotional screeds that provide valuable examples when picked apart. The only reason to be concerned about them would be if their arguments actually presented a more accurate model of reality. Spoiler: they don’t. How do you think men wind up here searching for answers to begin with?

M Simon
4 years ago

My biggest issue with this article, though, is the criticism of egalitarian relationships. Marriages where both parties are on equal footing are far stronger bonded and far more stable than ones with unwanted, skewed power dynamics. The author states that egalitarian relationships cause friction and competition, but this is simply not true; friction and competition are caused when both parties are vying for control over the relationship. == Was playing with the LTR last night (just words. No bindings.). Me: “Am I making you feel totally dominated?” She: (shakes head yes) Me: “Do you like it?” She: (shakes head yes)… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong: I don’t mind clueless blue pilled men coming here and posting stupid shit, which should be picked apart, so that they can be helped.

Based on what this woman has been writing, do you think it will lead to a productive discussion?

As soon as they start to lose the argument, they will start playing the victim, cry they are being bullied, call it “online violence” …. blah blah blah. She has already labelled readers of this site as “Alpha bro wife beaters” on another post.

If you still wish to engage … more power to you.

M Simon
4 years ago

JP talks about multiple personalities (everyone has them). He echoes P.D. Ouspensky, “Fourth Way” and Minsky, “Society Of Mind”.

Or colloquially, “All those voices in your head.”

Ouspensky tells how to fix a broken system. From a computer programmer’s point of view. “First you install a watcher.” There were no computers when he wrote his book.

https://youtu.be/ceDcN-RjV_k

M Simon
4 years ago

Things are out to get you.

https://youtu.be/4G6jC9cHJkQ

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

October

You should say ” excuse me ” after you fart in a ( cyber ) room full of people.

October.. Hmmm…that’s Fall. Maybe we should change that season to ” Fail “.

M Simon
4 years ago

Rollo,

Ask Jordan if a family constitutes a dominance hierarchy.

Follow up if appropriate: How should the leader be decided.

Third: The optimum case.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@M Simon: “Follow up if appropriate: How should the leader be decided.”

I think JBPs answer to the above question will be no different from what “October” has mandated in her comment:

“In a truly egalitarian relationship, both parties have their strengths and flaws, and they play off of each other in a strategic way (like some kind of a “TEAM,” go figure). Both are willing to step up and take the lead OR step down and be supportive when it’s appropriate. There’s give-and-take there. That’s not a bad thing.”

BARF !!

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

FoxGuy

The women are there for easy pickings, they crave male dominance and traditional male values but at the same time resent them outwardly, fucking tricky situation. It’s like approaching some drugged out Lion …….It might attack you ,it might not……

Here the rub… the lioness will always attack you if she thinks you’re weak and can eat you.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Starting to wonder if part of tech-powered information overload is a form of social fatigue where the social interaction through their device leaves them too mentally tired to do the real thing.

They’ve forgotten the skills required to “do” the real thing. Chiefly empathy and an interest in something other than themselves.

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@KFG – Lol, the average SJW under 40 today has read Bell Hooks, but not Montesquieu. They are taught that Marx is one of the “three fathers of sociology” (sounds patriarchal to me) but don’t read Marx’s original works, nor do they critically study the failings of communism. They also don’t know the actual history of Progressivism or Fascism. We joke around about how Unis have become indoctrination centers but we really don’t get the extent of it. The entire canon of western thought is being removed from curricula with certain exceptions that they keep in to maintain a plausible… Read more »

Sri
Sri
4 years ago

>I’m certainly not going to let some self-important so-called “alpha” fuckboy plow my virgin soil.

Sorry, we’re not interested 😛

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Rugby

+1 on Papa…

http://danwin.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hemingway-vogue-tumblr_mjaphwPDgx1qddesco1_1280.jpg

DPA & Platinum Rule guy. Red Pill to boot.

The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber is required red pill ready. Take a moment now… it’s only a couple dozen pages.

http://faculty.washington.edu/jdb/303/Hemingway/The%20Short%20Happy%20Life%20of%20Francis%20Macomber.pdf

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber is required red pill ready. Take a moment now… it’s only a couple dozen pages.”

Cliffs Notes:

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/h/hemingways-short-stories/summary-and-analysis/the-short-happy-life-of-francis-macomber

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

“I LOVE music but I could never go through my day with shit plugged into my ears listening to music all day, every day.”

I used to listen to music in my car. Always on. Scrolling stations constantly. That was 2016.

Now I don’t. Just the motor and me. I have a moderately long commute.

Side effect of Man Up, maybe. I relaxed and then naturally rid distracting my mind of the repeated sensory hit from a cellophane world.

TRM is my vice now.

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Rollo: TRP is open source with an individual praxis implementation? Perhaps it is going the route of elders and creeds and denominations. [Typed somewhat in jest.]

https://twitter.com/beachmuscles/status/961759007424811009

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

@ Incubus_Rising BARF !!” You extracted the key quote. That is in essence the “moderate” feminist’s current creed. These are women who probably would not call themselves feminists, and actually are far removed from the shrieking extreme examples. But this is exactly how they would describe the ideal situation for a happy marriage. It is the equal partner model that’s built entirely around career yougogirl aspirations for having it all. To get yourself a woman like that is to basically get a third rate man dressed in women’s clothing (or men’s clothing), and resign yourself to second rate man status… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-04/toxic-masculinity-1920s-style “Blame Men” – Toxic Masculinity, 1920s-Style There have been other times in American history when men have been blamed for most of society’s ills. And some of those campaigns were even more aggressive than what we might think of as anti-male campaigns today. == There was, of course, plenty of opposition to this rhetoric at the time — even within reformist circles. In 1920, a female Party official at the GOP convention that year felt the need to clarify that “I most emphatically do not believe in the aggressive, antagonistic, anti-man spirit in politics.” At the time, the Republican… Read more »

Archeus19YO
Archeus19YO
4 years ago

The only Alpha to my mind I have seen in the comment pages rummaging through blogpost after blogpost is M. Simon… Whos Been with this blog at least from 2011… And I have seen Gamers (Lesser Alpha or fake Alpha;Goldmund?),but this man,M Simon, I suppose,demonstrates more than he explains… I don’t hang Rollo , as he has to explain in order to unplugging chumps…I saw him in some YT videos, listened to him in podcasts,I pray he doesn’t explain his great mind in real life…

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

Worth reprinting for any new joins. This is the manifesto of the moderate feminist. She will probably be clean, presentable, and have normal hair; but the attitude can only be disguised for a short time. Make no mistake – this model is designed to geld you. “In a truly egalitarian relationship, both parties have their strengths and flaws, and they play off of each other in a strategic way (like some kind of a “TEAM,” go figure). Both are willing to step up and take the lead OR step down and be supportive when it’s appropriate. There’s give-and-take there. That’s… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

@ Rollo

Question for your hangout:

Is RP eternally destined for cultural rump party status?

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

@ Lost Patrol

It’s all theory, ain’t it? She’s got no real experience, sexual or otherwise on which base her comment. It was rather cute and funny. That’s amused mastery lay-up bait.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@Lost Patrol: In case you all missed it, these are the comments she left on two TRM post this morning. Provides a lot of perspective on where these “egalitarian women” are coming from. https://therationalmale.com/about/comment-page-5/#comments October February 9, 2018 at 3:08 am For the record, you masculinist redpillers are JUST as bad as psycho “maternal ruling” feminists and the “gender neutral” weirdos. There’s a middle ground, you know. That’s a thing that exists. No one gender or type of person has to be universally “in charge” or “predisposed” to any sort of behavior. That’s the mindset that got us into this… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

. . . we would’ve been stuck with one of her cunty boyfriends . . .

Money quote.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@EhIntellect: “It’s all theory, ain’t it? She’s got no real experience, sexual or otherwise on which base her comment.”

You got that right on. She was raised by a single mother. She has no clue about importance of role of a man as a husband and as a father.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . They also don’t know the actual history of Progressivism . . .” It is useful if your idiots don’t know that although they will make up the membership of the first firing squads, they will make up the targets of the second. “They don’t read say Twain . . .” Most of them can’t. It’s written in Modern American English, a dead language expressing dead ideas that would send them screaming for their safe space anyway. Dickens, being British, is worse, Locke and Hobbes are right out. ” . . . this model is designed to… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Incubus_Rising Know where I said they have value when dissected? Once you take a good look at October you see that the FI twists egalitarian thinking in to emotional ranting not far off from feminism. Same angry attitude, same desire to see strong males emasculated, same belief that women are at the very least completely interchangeable with men (and possibly superior to “Alpha bros” like us *gasp*), the thought of a complementary view of male and female roles based on the underlying biology is utterly repulsive. There’s not a single thought to why men are here. It doesn’t for a… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“my goal is to fuck you” – metoo’s christina garcia “that’s not gonna happen” -every guy who heard above line who the fuck do these pigs think they are? if a pig like her says that kind of shit to you, you’re in big trouble because she thought it might actually happen if a fucking 3 thought she could talk to me I’d know I was fucked. and if she thought she could touch my crotch… i love walking onto the lot with absolutely no intention of buying. it makes sales people do crazy shit. and they’re already desperate to… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@Kfg: “. . . we would’ve been stuck with one of her cunty boyfriends . . .

Money quote.”

Each and every sentence in all her three comments are money quotes. The Man-hatred is strong and real in this one.

@Rollo: You should make this the mission statement for TRM: “Raising men to be a 1950s jock asshat just for the sake of being “manly.” Lol.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong: I was sceptical at first, but you were right. There is more value in dissecting the delusions of these “holier than thou” feminists …. and a lot of fun. Lol

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

1950’s jock asshat is patently absurd.

2018 jock asshat is more reasonable.

Perpetually masculine man is optimal.

Sun and Incubus have this chick(?) Dead to rights. It’s always pleasant watching men deal with angry man hating broads with smooth, sensible dispatch.

status confirmed
status confirmed
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong

“Most mature teenager in the house.”

That’s an even better way to put it.

I know you probably get sick of hearing people tell you to stay safe on the bike. Still, may no soccer mom in a Tahoe on a cell phone bring distress upon you.

Roused
Roused
4 years ago

@October, Why did you even bother coming here to post? I think it was just a troll job for yourself. Perhaps a hand job from one of your feminista girlfriends would have given you more pleasure? You aren’t going to convince any of the men here that what you wrote is something they should consider. You see, the men here are moving away from what you puked out. We have learned the hard way that your way does not lead to happy successful lives or relationships. You’re steeped in the extreme leftist ideology that gets a hard on from shaming… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

Re: Rollo – “Fuck that” – Ya. I was a committed and practicing Buddhist for 9 years. Meditated until I disappeared (fyi, recent valid research shows that meditation does nothing to reduce stress or negative emotions, lol – the BS from the newagey crowd proceeds apace). I’ve done all day meditations, engaging in what’s called “Noble Effort” in which in intentionally took positions that gave me more pain, just so I could master it. Fuck that shit. Buddhism is as big a pile of magical horseshit metaphysically as is any pre-modern mysticism out there. It’s packaged up for Westerners as… Read more »

Roused
Roused
4 years ago

And now for some pop culture: https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/10/maroon-5-acknowledge-that-their-new-album-red-pill-blues-has-a-terrible-title/ Great pop music isn’t the only thing Maroon 5 are a bit clueless about. The band’s forthcoming album is dubiously titled, Red Pill Blues, which also happens to be the name of a men’s rights activist movement that believes women actually enjoy being treated as non-equals. According to the Adam Levine-led band, the album name was meant only to be a reference to the red and blue pills offered to Keanu Reeves’ character in The Matrix. Little did Maroon 5 know that MRA had co-opted the phrase for a much more sinister use… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Oink, oink…

AWALT

Octopussy’s no different than the wife, gf comfort testing after a long stressful shark week knowing you’ll absorb her childlike tantrum as we always do.

Octopussy tl;dr

“Pay attention to me, validate my insecurities you unthinking monsters! Don’t you dare leave me you jerk brutes! I’m empowered without the likes of you and you’ll work hard to keep it so! Why won’t you get to tearing my panties off? Do I have to draw you stupid men a picture?”

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Roused

Maroon 5 shouldn’t sweat the name of their album at all. They should sweat the fact that their music is shit.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
4 years ago

@Sun

Excellent, excellent retort.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
4 years ago

Referring to your assessment of October

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Some cute butterflies in this video, if you’re into that sorta thing. ”

I couldn’t make it that far, they started playing the music.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Octopuusy’s Strong Woman world.

Suspension of disbelief mandatory.

http://youtu.be/ST7jKqrtci0

Roused
Roused
4 years ago

Maroon 5 shouldn’t sweat the name of their album at all. They should sweat the fact that their music is shit.

No doubt, good call. First time in years I actually listened to them. I noticed them when searching for red pill music. Maybe @October would like to give us a review of what he thinks of them. I want to know his take on the butterflies and why he thinks the guys were all chasing the girl in the video.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

October’s a dude?

Wow. Fascinating.

Roused
Roused
4 years ago

An alternative to the Moron 5:

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

@EhIntellect: “October’s a dude?”

No, its mother nature, divine female, here to tell us that “our genes will not be passed on to the next generation”.

The below is from her comment further up in the thread:

“I’m certainly not going to let some self-important so-called “alpha” fuckboy plow my virgin soil. No, I don’t want to be financially dependent on a man, not because I hate men, but because I have an iota of self-respect. I’m not going to let any man be financially dependent on me, either, because I hate dead weight.”

FoxGuy
FoxGuy
4 years ago

@October is a perfect example of why can’t give an inch to these people(aka lose frame), perfect illustration of how deluded and just downright crazy society has gotten. Was at an after school literacy meeting/presentation at my son’s school this week, it was held in the library of the school, I found myself applying a red pill filter to everything that I was seeing/going on and I couldn’t help but shake my head. Couple of observations below: -There must have been at least 40-50 parents/teachers there, mostly parents, in total there was less than 5 guys in there, the rest… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
4 years ago

“Second there was a rocking chair in the library, I immediately took it and moved it to the place I wanted to sit for the presentation, because I like rocking chairs. At least half the people turned around and were puzzled/amazed I took the chair and moved to where I wanted. Couple of females kept looking back at me throughout the meeting with puzzlement.” Woman 1: “Did you see that “self-important” Alpha Bro? It was so rude to move that rocking chair to suit his own comfort. Woman 2: Yes, I saw that. It is the patriarchy, we need to… Read more »

Sri
Sri
4 years ago

While I don’t understand why we keep making the same mistake of falling for a “truth discussion” in a power play, that woman’s venting itself shows you a) Why masculinity and femininity are needed b) Why fathers matter and how not having an evolved man in the house can wreck their children – both sons and daughters. It wrecks them to the point where their whole identity gets scrambled at a fundamental level. A healthy ‘male ego’ motivated by drive and ambition is actually the best anchor to stop a female from poor self esteem issues and hating oneself for… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

“fuckboy plow my virgin soil.”

I call high grade horseshit. I’ve made my decision.

Octopussy is full of shit. It’s a dude. No virgin talks so. She sounds like the cast of Sex in the City. Foul mouthed women talking foul mouthed dog.

Why was that? Because the shows writers were homosexual men.

Hence the inconguence.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Re: Maroon 5

I have “Wake Up Call” on my running mix.

De gustibus non est disputandum

a.k.a. Fuck y’all.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

@ Foxguy

Women are basically terrified, more so with the one-way-ratchet state considering them, their children as collateral damage in their Endloesung.

I don’t find comfort in women cannibalized by the feminism monster. It just is.

Octopussy is just role playing until the shit hits the fan. Let em. It’s a gossamer thin facade.

Hence pickup and game trumps chick power every time.

quartermoa
4 years ago

To paraphrase the great Walter Sobchak from Big Leboski, “You know, Dude, I myself dabbled in Buddhism once”. @kfg But the idea that The Passion or Martyrdom is the way of life and even salvation is something explicitly rejected by Buddhism. Agree, this is the new age Christian take on “life is suffering”. @scribberg I’ve done all day meditations Done several all day/weekend workshops and have to say that the people that attend these things are some of the most fucked up people I ever met in my life. For me personally, studying Buddhism and practicing meditation was very helpful… Read more »

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