Thoughts on Aziz Ansari

I’m going to make a confession here; until a week ago I had no idea who Aziz Ansari was. I get he was some low limit comedian, and in today’s social environment that means he lectures an audience about social justice issues for an hour while trying to insert some humor into his act. I’ve pretty much given up on most comedians these days, and I’m a guy who used to love standup. However, my unfamiliarity with Aziz was actually a benefit in assessing his recent pillory in the mainstream. Had I known about him before all this, and his comedy activism, I likely would’ve just dismissed his case as the next guy to be put into the MeToo deadpool of celebrity men – and I’m being generous about the “celebrity” part.

I had actually resigned myself to blowing off his whole story until I started digging into the particulars of the ‘date’ he had with the anonymous “Grace”. On first pass this whole incident is easy to dismiss even for Red Pill aware men with better things to do than bother themselves with another Hollywood chump to go down to the open power grab that MeToo and TimesUp have become. There is, however, a lot to unpack in the whole thing though. If you want the whole story you can read about it here on Babe.net, the blog for “Girls who don’t give a fuck”, which is interesting because apparently they give a lot of fucks according to the story.

Just to break down some of the particulars here:

  • She (Grace) approaches Aziz in the beginning. Flirts with him and then goes back to her date she was with that evening. They would catch each other glancing at the other durning the night (IOIs). They ‘ran into each other’ later and he number closes.
  • Aziz Beta texts her almost immediately and tries to text Game/flirt with her before he asks her out
  • Before meeting Ansari, she tells friends and coworkers about the date and consulted her go-to group chat about what she should wear to fit the “cocktail chic” dress-code he gave her. She settled on “a tank-top dress and jeans.” She showed me a picture, it was a good outfit.
  • After the white wine she didn’t like, they end up back at his place. She complimented his marble countertops. Ansari turned the compliment into an invitation. “He said something along the lines of, ‘How about you hop up and take a seat?’” Within moments, he was kissing her. “In a second, his hand was on my breast.” Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself.
  • Ansari tells her he was going to get a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”
  • Ansari repeatedly attempts ‘The Claw’. on her “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”
  • Ansari physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”
  • Ansari presses her for sex. He asks repeatedly, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was on the countertop. She says she didn’t want to fuck him at all. He keeps asking, so she says, ‘Next time.’ Aziz says, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and she says, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’
  • She later says she doesn’t want it to seem forced and this wakes Ansari up from his sexual stupor. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun. Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’ Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”
  • Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.
  • They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away.  “I remember saying, ‘You guys are all the same, you guys are all the fucking same.’” Ansari asked her what she meant. When she turned to answer, she says he met her with “gross, forceful kisses.” After that last kiss, Grace stood up from the couch, moved back to the kitchen island where she left her phone, and said she would call herself a car. He hugged her and kissed her goodbye, another “aggressive” kiss. When she pulled away, Ansari finally relented and insisted he’d call her the car.

All of this detail is important to consider because Ansari’s actions here are classic Beta Game desperation tactics. It is literally one Beta move after another. Many of the reviewers of this incident like to point out that it was really a misunderstood date gone wrong, or else they use it as proof-positive of a sexual assault, but I’m going to argue something different here – Ansari is simply a Beta chump with very little Game savvy who, if he’d had even a hint of Game awareness could’ve had a good sexual experience both for himself and her.

As I’ve mentioned before, I’m not a proponent of men attempting to push past last minute resistance. For as much as “enthusiastic consent” will be used as a tool of fear to dissuade Beta men from even attempting to approach, I can’t say that I wouldn’t want a woman to have a genuine desire to fuck me in any sexual episode. I can remember in my ‘rock star 20s’ doing exactly this. If a woman wasn’t into having sex with me or she had some reservations or some hoops she expected me to jump through in order to get her to “come around” to fucking me I would simply excuse myself from the situation. I was at a point in my life where I had many other (proven) options, and if a new prospect wasn’t an absolutely ‘enthusiastic’  “Hell Yes!” girl I had at least six other women who were eager to come over and fuck me. This was just a subconscious awareness I took for granted at the time, but it was an attitude that stemmed from abundance.

That was essentially my Game back then. It was the natural reflex of an Alpha man and women responded to it. The behaviors and attitudes I exhibited just flowed from my unrehearsed subconscious. It was who I was. Dread is much more effective for a man when a woman sees that he’s oblivious to his causing dread.

Most men never really experience this kind of sexual abundance and as such it colors their outlook and how they expect sex to work for them. One big problem inherent to men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the idea that sex must be negotiated for a woman to feel comfortable enough to fuck a guy, but more importantly in this era, to avoid any misunderstandings that would lead to his getting a sexual misconduct allegation. The Blue Pill teaches men to respect women by default, for no other reason than she has a vagina, but also that open communication, full disclosure and negotiation are necessary elements of sex. We can see this played out in the ludicrous expectation that every sex action a man involves himself in requires vocal enthusiastic consent. This is the acculturation; men are expected to negotiate every sexual detail of a sexual experience.

Needless to say this is patently ridiculous, but it’s also the surest way to kill the actual enthusiasm a woman might actually have for a guy. One thing that will separate Alpha men from Betas in the future will be that man’s honed capacity to remove himself from any sexual situation that is negotiated. Women want to play the Game, they don’t want the Game explained to them. They want a man who Just Gets It and the men who don’t get it will be the ones whose dutiful Blue Pill conditioning prompts them to start any and every approach at intimacy by negotiating the terms for a woman’s desire.

You cannot negotiate genuine desire, but this negotiation is exactly what modern feminism simultaneously fosters and struggles against. The idea of ‘enthusiastic consent’ is really a want on the part of women to have the sex they genuinely have a desire to experience with a man. This is all women want to write about now and the Ansari incident is a textbook example of the kind of negotiated sex women don’t want to have, but sometimes go through with for transactional reasons. Remember, sex with Alpha men is validational for women – lackluster ‘meh’ sex with Beta men is transactional sex. If you only read what women are writing about sex today you’d think that transactional sex is all they’ve ever been having – and sexist men see women as ‘soft’ prostitutes. Now it’s suddenly some revolutionary act for women to have the sex Alpha sex enjoyment they’ve always “deserved” but have been repressed by transactional sex with Betas.

That said, I can’t disagree entirely with the want for an enthusiastic sex partner who genuinely wants to fuck me 12 ways to Tuesday. And this is women’s rationale today, “Don’t you want to fuck a woman who really wants to fuck you?” It’s hard to argue against the “Hell Yes” girl, until you realize that the sex they are describing is only reserved for the guy they really want to bang and mistakenly believe their overinflated self-value warrants.

Now, I’ve read the debate from PUAs who make the point that it is entirely possible to make a ‘No’ girl into a ‘Hell Yes’ girl. I’ve seen the infield videos so I’ll spare you the linking. My question then is, after deftly applying Game and calibrating all the minutiae to do so, how does this compare to a woman who has a genuine desire for you from the start? I think one huge hurdle for guys unplugging from their Blue Pill conditioning have to face is the presupposition that sex is only the result of a process of negotiation. That negotiation is what the Blue Pill teaches boys and men from a very early age.

Aziz! Light!

The Ansari incident has a lot of Red Pill lessons to teach. First and foremost is the fact that Ansari is a consumate Beta. Looking at the guy he resembles any number of Indian computer programmers frustrated by a want for the secret formula to make a gorgeous American blonde with big tits fall in love with him. Don’t get me wrong, I counsel these men personally, but he fits that schema. Next, Ansari is a vocal and outspoken White Knight for feminism and regularly proves his male self-loathing as part of his standup act. I mean, the guy wears a Time’s Up pin. But like most male feminists, he gets hung by his own Beta Game bullshit – this is the fate of all male feminists.

Lastly, Ansari is a Beta who made good. I’ve talked about the Blue Pill White Knights and self-righteous AFCs in many a post, but I’m not sure I’ve emphasized how dangerous this mindset can be for a Beta who has a combination of affluence, celebrity and social proof. There comes a self-validation in that Blue Pill mindset when women want to be associated with him. He develops a belief that it’s his Blue Pill conditioning, and his adherence to it, that is the reason for his relative success with women. This insulates these guys from ever disconnecting from that conditioning, but it also lessens an incentive to see women in any other perspective. The result of this is exactly what Ansari experienced in this incident. He was too comfortable in presuming his pro-woman, female identifying, Beta Game would make his sexual expression ‘Okay’ with any woman who gave him positive sexual interest.

Another big indicator of this, and really much of Beta Game, was his repeated pawing of Grace and repeated sexual expressions with her. It wasn’t working as he believed it should, so what was his solution? Continue with the negotiation and hope for a positive sign of reinforcement from her. Every act that Ansari attempted with Grace was a form of negotiation. I can’t get sex? How about a blow job? No? Okay how about if I go down on you? She feels forced? Woah, default to female identification persona. Presume the sale, “How do you want me to fuck you?”

This is all one big negotiation – there is no genuine desire and no enthusiasm of the part of Grace – but since Ansari has never had the incentive to learn Game he keep going back to what he thinks should work on her.

To wrap all of this up, I should mention that the reason this whole affair went viral is should really be no surprise. It’s one more example of everything MeToo has been harping on for almost 5 months now, yes, but it’s also an illustration of exactly this new sentiment of the “grey area” sex I brought to light in Dangerous Times – Part 2. It’s sex women have out of courtesy (Aziz got a courtesy hummer) or convenience or just as something to do. It is exactly the obligated sex I’ve been talking about since The Desire Dynamic. This incident is exactly the story this ‘grey sex’ sentiment had needed, but in the larger picture it highlights the difference between transactional sex and validational sex.

As Open Hypergamy becomes yet more normalized it’s now time that the Feminine Imperative acknowledges the type of sex women desire and enjoy, and the type of sex they feel obligated to perform as part of a negotiation or transaction. And naturally the need to define what women’s Hypergamy dictates becomes a new form of shame for men. Evil Patriarchal men are to blame for women having to openly acknowledge that they only want to fuck Alpha men with any real enthusiasm. Men are to blame for validational and transactional sex, and now absolved, women can take the next steps in consolidating on Hypergamy.

No, there’s no current legislation that makes ‘unenthusiasitc sex’ a sex crime (yet), but remember that the sexual arms race is always fought in the court of public opinion before anything is written in ink.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

699 comments on “Thoughts on Aziz Ansari

  1. Snowflake ain’t happy

    Abby is doubling down, popping smoke (the media is attacking me instead of supporting me), using approved narrative terminology (“predatory male sexuality”).

    This is no neophyte, she has received training.

    Ansari maybe should have followed the same model:

    1. Admit nothing
    2. Deny everything
    3. Make counter accusations

  2. @ asd

    She knew he had none…from the compulsive texts, his pressure pre-date. She experinced his pregame-game. She knew it was never sex.

  3. ” She knew it was never sex.”

    every hb5 and over knows it’s never sex with the azizs. maybe a 20 second, you can put it in my gross mouth “blowjob” (but anyone who’s ever had desire bjs knows what aziz would call a bj wouldn’t even count as scoring in grade school terms)

    would you want aziz fighting on your side? or would you be overjoyed that he and men like him were fighting on the other side?

    aziz is a stranger in a strange land. none of his best traits are valuable in the sexual marketplace. none of his best traits are valuable in the male space. so what does he do?

    self depricating stand up in exchange for sjw “popularity/accolades” and pretend money because he still thinks he can buy and or negotiate desire

    self deprication is never good. if you’re a real chad, you have no business on the stand up stage because stand ups are there to make the crowd feel better about themselves. chads talking about how wet thier dicks are don’t make people feel better about their sad short sex.

    and if you’re an aziz, getting up and highlighting how women find you objectionable on every level is really not helping anything, despite what the drunk half laughs and nervous applause might imply

    aziz could pull a ton of good ass if he dropped his pussy career and instead only fought guys in heavier weight classes until he was beating the shit out of guys twice his size. then start dressign like spade and he’s good to go.

    aziz needs to find his beast. and I’m sure it will scare him, because if he thinks that shoving his short chubby fingers down a girls throat before that pussy sounds like wet paint is “masculine”, he’s in for a rude awakening.

  4. The difference in an Alpha would have been in how he perceived the signals. As Rollo points out. Alphas get it.

    First the woman did not just up and say no nor leave. Does this mean she’s game? No it means our Beta is such a nice guy…a celebrity that she still wanted to benefit from this (hypergamy). BUT her instincts were giving her different signals. Hence the shame she feels.

    An Alpha would have played to this. It would have been a good time for her since he isn’t triggering any of her alarms. Her Hypergamy is keeping her engaged for one reason or the other.

    On the other hand another Alpha response as Rollo points out is to accept the LMR. End the night. It’s done. She no longer benefits from the presence nor the evening. Women take sexual rejection far greater than men. They know what we want. They dress that way for a reason. Not to fuck but to display. To show how cute and desirable they are. To an Alpha we know better.

    We knew this girl in college who would tease and toss guys aside in the bar. She was hot. desirable. Every guy wanted her and she would only grace one with her beauty.

    Take the no and walk as if she has the issue. The only way to deal with hypergamy is with tough love. Hypergamy is selfishness. However it manifests it self the only answer is to drop them immediately and kick them off the island.

    In this situation the only answer at her first uncertainly was to end the night. Send her off.

  5. Answer me this Alphamen….

    What if she knew it was no sex entering, and with some help, allowed him to flail, the whole scenario playing out awkward for the drama and “attention, please” alone?

    If so, she gots it. It’s her webcycle. Fuck, were even talking it up too.

    She’s a clever one, if so.

  6. M. Simon
    Genetically speaking every person alive has 2 female ancestors and one male ancestor.

    Ridiculous.

  7. I think Seraph nails the Grace/Aziz dynamic and the confusion in her head about his incongruence. Of course, it wouldn’t have become a public thing if he hadn’t been famous but that’s a separate issue – the core of what happened is that confusion in her which is why still got a BJ and she still went back to his place, etc.

  8. O.B.I.T.
    Hey is anyone following the trial/sentencing of this gym coach who abused so many young girls? I say fine, throw away the key, but In don’t like the way the judge has allowed all these theatrical denunciations and confrontations to become part of the official proceedings.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Show_trial

  9. ” If I wasn’t so fucking humble I’d be perfect.”

    what’s a man to do, when he’s cried out to like a god, for simply being what he is?

    somebody said aziz watches too much porn. I could see that. once he got her upstairs, he thought that shit would play out like the 6 minutes of jack off time he’d enjoyed before meeting her for the date.

    girls definitely suck cock on command like they do in porn… it’s just that aziz didn’t see/failed to understand all the chad foreplay and her pussy getting wet/dry, wet/dry all day leading up to the meet.

    it’s only if she’s ready to pop, because the prospect of being around you, her lover, is so exciting, that you can grab her by the pussy and throw her around and have it not lead to sad post fuck commentary in the public space, like this right now.

    she wanted spade, but she got aziz. lol.

    spade’s game must be sick too, because big cock alone is definitely not enough. not at that level.

    the better a man’s game, the more he can deviate from GAAP – generally accepted attractiveness priciples.

    spade can wear sweat pants and eat prix fixe vegan brunch and then go home and crush it

  10. “Genetically speaking every person alive has 2 female ancestors and one male ancestor.”

    my layman’s understanding points to a JP video in which the assertion that women do the choosing for reproduction is corroborated thru the study of our DNA lineage/genetic science

    other animals with similar sexual strategies as humans also show the DNA/genetics similarities for which traits are passed thru maternal or paternal contributions… about 2:1 women:men

    contrast this with animals with different sexual strategies, eg chimps, and you’ll see different genetic ratios for the M/F side of genetic contributions for an individual, maybe closer to 1:1, give or take

    this isn’t the exact video of which I speak, but it touches on it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdLnOgB-gOQ

    corrections welcomed

  11. @Anonymous Reader

    Feminists that think they would get to fuck the winning Alpha are like eugenics advocates that think they would get to reproduce. Both groups are largely and sorely mistaken.

  12. Online bios claim Aziz is worth 10 million bucks. No idea if that is true, but “Bank Account” game like Weinstein seems obvious. Girls don’t really know what it takes to assemble a man, their hindbrain just assumes “Resources! Must be Alpha!” and things roll on from there. Remember, she’s just a girl, as they all are.

    *Girls don’t know what it takes to assemble a man, they just want the finished product on command. With a fresh serving of fried ice in hand, too.

    * Girls are hugely pumped up in USA’n society now from earliest childhood. Life is a series of participation trophies just for showing up with a vagina. This is why we have 5’s with the attitude of 8’s. Or more accurately, with what they believe would be the attitude of an 8. They are still girls, but now snooty frenemy girls.

    * Complicating things is the widespread entry of women into the world of work where any promotion that brings any authority leads women to try to act like men….or rather, they try to act like what they believe men do. The hard edged mean sass, the perpetual resting bitch face, the passive-aggressive backstabbing not just of their female co-workers but of any man foolish enough to be socialable with them…it is largely the result of women trying to play-act as “men”.

  13. Sun Wukong
    Feminists that think they would get to fuck the winning Alpha are like eugenics advocates that think they would get to reproduce.

    Excellent.

  14. Since women successfully reproduce in larger numbers than men, we share more great . . . great granddaddies than great . . . great grandmammies.

  15. @Sun Wukong:

    It’s the general principle for all totalitarian thinkers. They all assume that they will be the supreme leader, or at least a high ranking member of the oligarchy.

    It never occurs to them that they will be one of the ones sent to the salt mines.

  16. my layman’s understanding points to a JP video in which the assertion that women do the choosing for reproduction is corroborated thru the study of our DNA lineage/genetic science

    women do the choosing…righhht…lol at “scientifical studies'”

  17. Basic biology…if a man and woman have two daughters, did the man fail to reproduce?

    Putting the cookies on the lower shelf…does a man have to pass on his Y chromosome in order to reproduce? Obviously, some fraction of his genetics will not carry on if he has no sons.

    NB:

    Potentially, a man could have only daughters yet pass on more of his DNA than his wife does…just not his Y chromosome…there are 46 chromosomes in human DNA.

    A man could also affect the epigenetics of his mate’s genetic material.

    https://www.whatisepigenetics.com/fundamentals/

    Conclusion: Don’t draw unwarranted conclusions from scientifical studies.

  18. The field is the population of babies all the way down, not individual cases.

    I also note that if an alpha male mates with the female of his choosing, it does not imply that she didn’t choose him.

  19. I also note that if an alpha male mates with the female of his choosing, it does not imply that she didn’t choose him.

    Similarly,

    I note that if a beta male mates with the female of his choosing, it does not imply that she didn’t choose him.

    The word for the day is “superfluous.”

  20. I have not, at any time, made the claim that betas don’t mate. Quite the contrary, I have claimed that in humans betas mating is a necessary component, as it is quite a number of other species.

  21. You said, however, that “women do the choosing”, implying that women in the distant past had a mating advantage…that it has always been so.

    The key is which sex is advantaged in mating strategy. Currently, the FI is ascendant. It has not always been so…in fact, it is a fairly recent phenomenon. So, extrapolating into the past from phenomena which have only been significant recently is silly.

    We hear over and over in the manosphere how women have always had a mating advantage and it’s simply not true. Then pseudo-scientific studies are brought forth that supposedly prove this point. Ludicrous.

  22. “You said, however, that “women do the choosing” . . .”

    I did not.

    “Watch some more old movies about women trying to get a husband.”

    I have seen movies all the way back to the first, and BEYOND! I have also actually lived with subsistence hunter/gatherers. I have also kept many, many animals.

    In non-modern times and “civilized” settings, women might have such a hard time finding a husband they want that they will share, at a much higher rate than men will share a wife.

    I have also seen mothers eating their newborn. Female infanticide has always been a thing. Voluntary abortion has been a thing in human females for a very long time.

    What is it that offends you about the idea that more women want to fuck you more badly than they do Aziz? Is a puzzlement.

  23. Choad
    January 25, 2018 at 9:31 am

    I think he’s a good enough manipulator to get a blowjob from someone who wasn’t at all into it.

    And that was his cardinal mistake.

    For me it was ALWAYS “She’s not into it? Neither am I.”

  24. Women take sexual rejection far greater than men.

    I like to. “Sleep with me. No sex. I like the body contact.” And I sleep with them. No sex. About 3/4s come back raging for it.

    The LTR explained it to me. “Is there something wrong with me? Is he gay? I was sure once I got naked sex was inevitable.”

    The LTR was one of those who came back raging for it.

  25. “Women take sexual rejection far greater than men.”
    Don’t you think that would depend? On many factor’s?
    Rejection is better than regret?

  26. Yul Brynner. Excellent choice. Listed at 5’8″, but he always acted like he was 6’2″.

    As indicated by several comments up thread, it’s in how you think of, carry, and present yourself, physically and mentally; and how women can subconsciously read that. Aziz hasn’t gotten it yet and that bit him hard. Would Yul Brynner wear a times up badge?

    Every time you saw this man, you tended to believe him.

    http://i2.listal.com/image/463190/600full-yul-brynner.jpg

  27. Anoymous Reader
    January 25, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Suppose half the men are knocking up all the women. That is how you can have two female ancestors for every male ancestor..

    And what do you know. Genetic studies say 80% of women reproduce but only 40% of men do.

  28. “You said, however, that “women do the choosing” . . .”
    I did not.

    Zipper did, but you seemed to be arguing his point.

    In non-modern times and “civilized” settings, women might have such a hard time finding a husband they want that they will share, at a much higher rate than men will share a wife.

    1. The movie “Oklahoma”…women vying for men’s attention…trying to get wed before they get too old…which sex had the mating advantage before The Pill, abortion, antibiotics, no fault divorce?

    2. significance of polygamy? The king had 100 wives…anybody else have many wives? Even his courtiers?

    3. ag and mining slavery—what was the impact of these on men’s sexual options in ancient times? Is someone going to argue seriously that this was FI-induced?

    4. abortion was insignificant for people prior to 1973

    The method seems to be to use exceptional, insignificant cases to argue for a broad pattern. Meh.

  29. As indicated by several comments up thread, it’s in how you think of, carry, and present yourself, physically and mentally; and how women can subconsciously read that.

    I said that, but it must be juvenile.

    Genetic studies say 80% of women reproduce but only 40% of men do.

    Only after being run through a sophomoric translator.

  30. theasdgamer
    January 25, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    We were tribal long before civilization arose. And “universal” civilization is a recent thing.

    Look at Roman/Greek accounts of the various tribes they interacted with.

    What we are seeing is a reversion to the mean – with a civilization overlay.

  31. “”Sleep with me. No sex. I like the body contact.” And I sleep with them. No sex. About 3/4s come back raging for it.”

    this is a fine line. one I’m very interested in because this gets into the territory of how to get real sex sirens to chase.

    “sleep with me, I like the body contact” is bad news disguised as good. it seems as though she’s giving you a window frame through which to sneak, when in reality it’s fitted with double pane glass you just didn’t notice at first pass.

    she must be willing to spread first night because if not, she ain’t really attracted at the chem level. you must really want to hit it, but hopefully you’re drained enough to do the math on the back of the napkin and realize this one is worth testing even though it might mean losing the close.

    if she doesn’t offer the pussy, eject. or “learn the hard way, to let her pass by”

    “The LTR explained it to me. “Is there something wrong with me? Is he gay? I was sure once I got naked sex was inevitable.”

    agree with this. the rejected one assumes something is wrong with her, though, if “gay” enters her mind, probably not good overall as she shouldn’t be thinking about you at this point but totally focused on discovering her inadequacy and making up for it

    she will offer herself up the next morning. this is key because she is sober and it’s morning (busted make up, morning breath, etc).

    time to fuck her good. one thing I’m considering is not making her cum (easy as her comfort level will be super low) and not finishing myself (difficult, because my balls are blue as fuck at this point). Just sort of work her out in a few positions, give her a taste of the action and then withdraw to go do something fun because I want to see what she’s like on a date now. flip the script and make the extended date into an audition for her.

    how many guys have used it and not finished on purpose because they told her they’ll pick it up again later? this clearly implies there will be more sex, and on your terms because she’s the one being evaluated. also she can’t figure out what’s wrong with her that you haven’t busted on her.

    obviously this only applies to girls you have great chemistry with right away and who make it fun to play

  32. kfg, I’ve previously adequately answered the foolishness of using the Y chromosome to determine whether men mate, but my answer has been ignored. Not refuted. Ignored. But the original foolishness continues to be asserted. Pearls before swine? No.

    I’ll continue to assert my reply for the benefit of new readers no matter the intransigence of the scientifically impaired. I will refuse to engage the intransigent.

  33. Dr. Zipper
    Horizontal hierarchy? I’ll take a swing
    10 women on a softball team will sit around the bench discussing at length where they each feel they should hit in the batting order … the order will not be changed for the second game because feelings might be hurt ,,,
    10 guys on a softball team will quickly appoint a leader who will immediately size up each player and assign a batting order … the order will be changed for game two to efficiently reflect who was hitting the ball well in game one

  34. @Simon

    We were tribal long before civilization arose.

    The idea of tribes and civilization are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    Vikings came from a civilization and became tribal after going Viking.

    The Navajo were both a tribe AND a civilization. Similarly Maya and Aztec. Native American tribes likely came from Asian civilizations.

    Being tribal isn’t necessarily more ancient.

    If a civilization is destroyed, its people will form tribes. If people leave a civilization, they will form tribes in new lands. It’s how people function.

  35. @Simon

    Regarding Y chromosomes–many men were removed from the mating pool due to factors unrelated to mate selection…simply because they were men or boys and a potential threat. Or because they had value as agricultural or mining slaves or rowing slaves on a ship…these didn’t have access to women.

    And I’ve already shown that a man may reproduce, yet the method used in the referenced study would conclude that he failed to reproduce.

    In the referenced link, the differential age of reproduction of men and women might have had a serious impact on the study’s conclusions. More generatiions of X chromosomes on average than generations of Y chromosomes. That would seriously mess with conclusions about mating patterns.

  36. @seraph Thanks for laying that out. I was trying to square some of the things I have been reading with this encounter and wanted to bring out the inconsistencies. I think your perspective makes a lot of sense and fills in a lot of the gaps.

    I think there are mitigating factors in this case at the risk of repeating your excellent analysis.

    1. Aziz is not good looking enough to generate genuine desire inspite of status, at least from this specific person.

    2. Her frame was transactional and she wanted control for some possible future benefit but quickly realized that would not come to pass and he was in for a one time fuck.

    3. There are missing pieces in the story and perhaps he said or did things to put her off.

    To the others this was not about me, just trying to understand the material 🙂

  37. “I’ve previously adequately answered the foolishness of using the Y chromosome to determine whether men mate, but my answer has been ignored. Not refuted. Ignored.”

    I have ignored it, because it is not an argument I have either made nor supported.

  38. kfg
    Since women successfully reproduce in larger numbers than men, we share more great . . . great granddaddies than great . . . great grandmammies.

    That is not what M. Simon stated.

  39. M Simon
    Suppose half the men are knocking up all the women.

    Ok, suppose.

    That is how you can have two female ancestors for every male ancestor..

    LOL! Ridiculous and stupid. Find a 7th grade child to explain the facts of lite to you.

    HINT: What is mtDNA? Where does it come from?

  40. raulb
    1. Aziz is not good looking enough to generate genuine desire inspite of status, at least from this specific person.

    Doesn’t matter. Aziz has no game beyond “Bank Account”, plus watches too much porn.
    Look at David Spade and tell me “good looking” matters.

    2. Her frame was transactional and she wanted control for some possible future benefit but quickly realized that would not come to pass and he was in for a one time fuck.

    Doesn’t matter. Her frame is not relevant. His frame was worse than useless.

    3. There are missing pieces in the story and perhaps he said or did things to put her off

    Doesn’t matter, there’s more than enough gross blunders in the quasi FR to show Aziz is totally blue pilled. That’s why he failed so blindingly.

    Maybe you should read the archives? Use the search bar to look for “negotiating desire” for a start. Read. Learn. Then discuss.

  41. @ seraph

    Bravo! Well summed up. The Red Pill certainly shines a whole different light on everything…

  42. @ Dr. Zipper

    Quite right, good chap. Brits and their Debretts table manners dragged the world from its filth.

  43. “The movie “Oklahoma” . . .”

    . . . is one I’m rather fond of, however unfashionable that may be these days. I’ve had a friend come up to me and say, “DUDE! You were singing Oklahoma when you passed me on the bike path the other day.” He didn’t do so in praise of my selection (although I am known as “The man with The VOICE” to many regulars out there).

    I note that Oklahoma! is not only set in modern times, it’s set in the 20th century, more than a century into the current feminist push. I’ve know people who were there, at the time. I’ve eaten off dinnerware that got there in a covered wagon. I’ve read historical documents and literature about it which . . .

    . . . the movie is not. It’s an entertainment. A cartoon of the time and place, for the amusement of the audience 50 years on, not their edification.

    The subject is not marriage. The subject is the multi-generational success of reproduction. One does not have to be married to reproduce. One does not have to reproduce with the one one is married to. Oklahoma! does not even come close to representing the world historical reality of reproduction. In fact, although we may induce that reproduction has taken place, it does not depict reproduction at all.

    Effective chemical conception preventatives and abortifacients have been know for thousands of years. You’ll find the administration of an abortifacient in the Old Testament.

    And abortion is not the only means to ensure that a child does not grow up to reproduce themselves; and humans are not the only animals to avail themselves of such methods. They run far, wide and deep in the world.

  44. theasdgamer
    January 25, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    I’m arguing hypergamy and you are arguing against it.

    Human mating patterns are not 1 to 1. Are they 2 to 1 (F/M)? There is evidence for it.

    So you don’t buy the evidence. Fine. Some day for sure we may know whether or not the earth is flat. I look forward to that day.

  45. I’m for the wall for integrity sake. I get that.

    Though the importation of a permanent underclass isn’t the same as increaeed Hispanic fecundity. It might seem they’re having more kids as there are relatively so many more than, say, 20-30 years back…but when here they adopt all the same bad behaviors of our permanent underclass…and that group isn’t breeding to term either.

    I don’t have the numbers right here but could get em if needed.

  46. “I’m arguing hypergamy and you are arguing against it.”

    So far as I can tell he is arguing that all women are like Shirley Jones, but we aren’t going to talk about Elmer Gantry, because reasons.

    Not only are his arguments not consistent with TRM, they are not consistent. He seems to be coming from some emotional place and pulling out whatever he feels at the moment. It smacks of rationalizing something.

    Or perhaps AR is right about the fidget spinner thing.

  47. Something that always bugged me about the pua style of game ( pickup is more succinct ) is the concentration on getting the super fast lay. Men learn zero by doing this, and will eventually trip up on their own dicks, or grow tired and disillusioned with all the ” pussay “… lol, childish shit, and then make attempts to ” settle down “, maybe in a poly relationship, and wind up getting assfucked by women. ( watch…).\

    But hey, that’s the life they chose so have at it hoss. Lol.

    The thing is, can any random dude be taught calibration? If a cat is so socially disconnected, will he actually understand the concept of calibrating? I’ve always wondered about this and it makes me suspicious. Of course, some guys will indeed be able to get calibrating, and some will learn to look deeper and get a better understanding of women and the dynamics, but I’m leery as fuck when a pua disciple will heartily guffaw at the notion of understanding what goes on between women’s ears beyond trying to flip enough switches to get them into bed. How can one learn if only one aspect of dealing with women is the focus? It’s like the 911 hijackers that only wanted to learn how to fly a plane without learning how to take off or land.

    Aziz is definitely a major fuckup. But just out of curiosity, I’d love to know what the actual fuck was running through his brain as he was engaging in… whatever the fuck you’d call it.

    Porn. Some motherfuckers need to stay as far away from porn as humanly possible. This is probably a part of Aziz’s issue, but my gut is telling me that he’s done his awkward ” finger in pussy, fingers in throat, blow me ” shtick before successfully. Some chick at some point just let him do his thing.

    So, do y’all believe that pua could have saved him from himself? Game could’ve helped him, but he had none at all, so maybe the next best thing in pickup could’ve helped him out?

    http://s3cdn-test-lookbooknu.netdna-ssl.com/files/looks/medium/2010/07/20/700946_DSC_0459.jpg

    Really???

    This is the chick you bang sideways and crosseyed pretty easily. She woulda banged Aziz if he understood just a few simple things.

    like don’t jam your fucking fingers down a chick’s throat…. right away.

    I used to hear stories about guys like Aziz while hanging out with chicks. The only thing was none of the chicks I heard horror stories about some overzealous, horny and awkward dude ever tried to put him on blast to the entire planet.

    And that’s what I have a HUGE problem with.

    Aziz should have known better and been more self aware, sure, but the snack hoe also should’ve communicated that she wasn’t into the whole gagging on the fingers thing, and she definitely should’ve kept his dick out of her mouth. What kind of silly assed game are chicks playing where a blowjob is no big deal? WTF??? I mean, damn.

    He shoulda called her an uber and dialed up an escort, and paid extra for some chokage. Just don’t tell her who you are – ” My Name is Herman Patel, nice to meet you..”.

    So do I feel badly for Aziz? Nah, not really. Sucker’s gotta learn somehow. He will never, ever forget this hard lesson. And the snack hoe? Lol, her name is turning into mud right now. Good for her.

    I’m more interested in seeing what he does now going forward. Will he double down on his ” Time’s Up ” bullshit? Or will he wake the fuck up and see all of this tragedy in his life for what it really is? The answer to all of his troubles stares back at him in the mirror.

    Again, I caution all newbies, Get Your Fucking Sex Game On Point. It’s not hard to do and pays great dividends, and snack hoes won’t blab to the internet.

    Shit gives me a headache…..

  48. ” . . . can any random dude be taught calibration? ”

    Some dudes can’t be taught to calibrate with a toilet.

  49. ” Some dudes can’t be taught to calibrate with a toilet.”

    Aha. And I think that it’s these guys that have to be left by the wayside. Yin and Yang. Competence means shit with incompetence for comparison.

  50. Calibration.

    An interesting subject. I can tell what the LTR is thinking by paying attention to her emotions. And when I tell her what she is feeling she never says I’m wrong. She may try to start a fight if what I’m telling her contradicts her hamster (“Look at how [this dread move] makes you feel. You love it.”) But she has never once says I’m not reporting her inner situation accurately.

    What do I think it is? Every emotion has a chemical signature. And if you pay attention you learn to identify the “smell” with the emotional state. We are probably nearly as good as dogs – if we pay attention.

    Feynman’s personal experiments with this are instructive. Read about them.

    But there is an added dimension. I was living in the woods hungering desperately for my GF who was 100 miles away (doing some “city” business). She came running to me and the first thing she asked was “Are you OK?” She asked that I never do that again (unless I was in real trouble).

    So who knows. There may be something electromagnetic as well.

    In any case. If you pay attention you can pick up the signals.

  51. @blax

    “maybe in a poly relationship, and wind up getting assfucked by women.”

    How exactly are guys who chooses to have a relationship with a girl that you are not emotionally exclusive with + fuckbuddies on the side (to not get oneitis for your main girl) +(occasional ONS (to keep your skills sharp/provide variety) gonna get “assfucked” compared to the guy who goes the traditional route and chooses to get married in this day and age and risk (cause unnecessary risk = manly lol) getting divorce raped. If main girl isn’t happy, cool, let her go get a monogamous boyfriend and promote your favorite FB to MLTR status and keep on keeping on. Odds are very high she will get bored with mono beta boy and come back to you anyway. But now she’s demoted to FB status…But If married girl isn’t happy, she’ll divorce you and get half you’re shit. It’s a no brainer lmao

  52. “What kind of silly assed game are chicks playing where a blowjob is no big deal? ”

    @ Blax

    I ain’t gonna say he was set up…but something’s just not right when a dude’s giving off ALL the wrong signals from the GET-GO and she still shows up, goes to his apt, plays half-step sex and then triumphantly professes to everyone this lone Beta dude…with no real defenders…kinda isolated…kinda in public eye…and no guy with game would do that…is part of the #metoo problem.

    He’s not the problem here. That guy and guys like him usually don’t get laid because he’s preemptively rejected before the cunnilingus or whatever.

    Women are seriously despairing to pull this type of validation bullshit. It’s a pathetic cry for help as they futilely battle a monster of their own making.

    A woman can gain a sense of group righteousness and validation…but only in so far as it only comes from more of those fucktard supplicating Betas and her peer in-group. So that leaves her yet without her Alpha.

    Waaaa! This feminism calculus isn’t making sense!!

    Oh btw, full confession, I ate a chick out once after a wedding reception but then didn’t fuck her. In retrospect, bad move, so don’t do it. In retro-retrospect she turned out kinda dumpy 5 years on, so another bullet missed.

    I do like the taste of pussy. Mmmmm.

  53. “Every emotion has a chemical signature.”

    IDK, if you mean her pussy smell, I get it. You’ve lost me if not.

  54. So betatude is a crime now? That would mean that half of men in society are to be criminals by default. There will always be a left half of the distribution. I don’t think the mindless mob even realizes how they’re destroying society.

  55. EhIntellect
    January 25, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Our bodies are one huge chemical factory with much of the signaling done with chemicals. Why shouldn’t we be able to read those signals coming from outside?

    “You could smell the fear.” is a common expression. Why not everything else?

    Read the Feynman link I posted for some further ideas.

    The sense of smell is not directly connected to the verbal part of the brain. So you have to be very quiet (no words – inner or vocalized) to notice. But your brain knows.

  56. Let’s see…

    ” How exactly are guys who chooses to have a relationship with a girl that you are not emotionally exclusive with + fuckbuddies on the side (to not get oneitis for your main girl) +(occasional ONS (to keep your skills sharp/provide variety) gonna get “assfucked””

    Pua speak aside, the vast majority of men can’t pull this off – mainly because they might assume that having pua styled skill is enough to take them over the longer haul, with multiple women.

    “… compared to the guy who goes the traditional route and chooses to get married in this day and age and risk (cause unnecessary risk = manly lol) getting divorce raped.”

    I didn’t mention marriage. At all.

    ” If main girl isn’t happy, cool, let her go get a monogamous boyfriend and promote your favorite FB to MLTR status and keep on keeping on. Odds are very high she will get bored with mono beta boy and come back to you anyway. But now she’s demoted to FB status…”

    Again, most guys will never pull any of this off, and it will only serve to frustrate them even more. It’s kinda a fairytale, all of the promoting and demoting stuff. Women aren’t like that in the real world… maybe the dumber ones, but the wall and time smartens them up a bit.

    I mean, I hear guys talk about this stuff. I saw how Mystery ended up. I see Todd is giving it a go. Let’s wait and see how it all shakes out shall we? At least before we start selling this to Joe Average as some kind of option.

    ” But If married girl isn’t happy, she’ll divorce you and get half you’re shit. It’s a no brainer lmao”

    Maybe. Maybe not. Depending on the state you live in, cohabit with a FB long enough and see what the courts have to say.

    But, I didn’t mention marriage, soooo…..

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