Men and Suicide

Before I launch in here today I need to confess that this post has been in my drafts folder for a while now. As most of my readers are aware I’ve known two personal friends who’ve taken their own lives as a result of having their Blue Pill conditioned beliefs set them on a path to self destruction. One of the more important parts of my charter when I started writing was to reach the men who were at their wits’ end in figuring out how to deal with their personal, romantic or married lives that had until then been directed by what their Blue Pill acculturation and their understanding of intersexual dynamics were molded to be. Since I started and stopped and then restarted this topic again there have been a few recent developments in my perspective on men taking their own lives as a result of the Blue Pill’s influence on them.

All of this really began about two months ago while I was engaging in a debate (or what passes for debate) on Twitter with a very unsympathetic woman who thought she’d set me straight about why it is men choose to take their own lives at a far greater rate than women. As it stands today, men are statistically between 4 and 5 times more likely than women to kill themselves. For most Red Pill aware men this is a fairly well known stat and one that gets quoted often enough when women trot out their own stats about abuse or whatever issue they think it is that MRA are ‘confused’ about. They usually get owned when this sort of back and forth goes down, but I’m always drawn to the comparative issues women think are equitable to that of men losing their lives.

Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere. Sperm is cheap, eggs are scarce and men are expected to sacrifice their lives for the security and betterment of women even in the most patriarchal of prior social orders. It’s always interesting to me that issues of mandatory male conscription into the military (potential death) and the unignorable high male suicide rates are something women still won’t accept as being a pretty raw deal for men. Women’s innate solipsism will still compel women to find some “yeah, but;…” rationalization for men’s disposability. Whenever I bring something like this up the reflexive presumption is that I’m bemoaning men’s victim status for being disposable. However, it’s impossible to discuss male disposability without such a connotation. My issues isn’t one of seeking some equitable disposability for women, but rather it’s drawing attention to the way women react and rationalize away their own part in that disposability.

True Powerlessness

I covered a lot of this in Chivalry vs. Altruism, so I won’t belabor that here, but I will point out the inherent power imbalance in this disposability. I’ve stated in the past that true power is not the control we can exert over the lives of others, but rather the extent to which we have control over the direction of our own lives. When we discuss issues of power between men and women the real, ultimate, loss of that control is in the context of our deaths.

There is no greater powerlessness for men than a lack of control over our own disposability.

Again, this isn’t some cry of victimhood for men – I happen to believe there’s an evolved component in the male psychological firmware that actually predisposes us to sacrificing ourselves in lieu of the security of our women and children. That’s not so much altruism as it is an inborn subroutine for protecting women that triggers in life-threatening situations. When a mass shooter opens fire indiscriminately at a crowd of people it is the men, not the women, who instinctively put their bodies between that gun and women or children, even the one’s they don’t personally know.

In the bigger scope of things, men will always be more disposable than women, and on some level of consciousness women’s hindbrains instinctively understand this. As such, women’s conscious process must find ways to reconcile this understanding in order for them to move on from men’s sacrifices. Sometimes this can manifest in the War Brides phenomenon, but I would argue that in today’s social learning environment of mass media, instant gratification of women’ solipsism and feminine-primary social order, this reconciliation takes some even uglier turns. Today, women have become very efficient in consoling each other’s solipsistic rationalizing of men’s sacrifices. In this environment of default female victimization and presumed oppression even men’s ultimate sacrifice, men’s ultimate powerlessness in their own deaths, cannot ever be consciously or unconsciously acknowledged in a state of fempowerment.

While I had this debate it occurred to me that even men’s suicides could never be attributed to anything less than their own ‘male egos’ by women, thus making them victims of their conditioning into “toxic” masculinity. Essentially, women were arguing that men would put a noose around their necks because they were socially conditioned to do so. Their suicide rate was attributable to their self-pity and inability to be ‘real men’ as some nebulous toxic masculinity had predefined for them. I thought this was kind of ironic when you compare this reasoning to the narrative shift away from ‘toxic’ masculinity to masculinity itself is toxic. This is really a stupid argument when you consider that it’s just another social convention used to absolve women of the guilt associated with men’s sacrifices. Men are hardwired for self sacrifice, but likewise women had need to evolved psychological adaptations to help them clear the red from their life’s ledger in this respect.

So, in the end, it helps if women can fall back on social conventions that put the associated guilt of men’s sacrifices back on the men themselves. Chivalry and traditional masculinity are fine when they serve the Feminine Imperative, but if a man actually gets killed or kills himself as part of that, well, that’s on him then. And this is what I was beginning with in this debate; there will always be a desire for absolution of women’s guilt or complicity in the deaths of men. I should also add that in terms of war and men being drafted women regularly default to the same asinine presumption that if women were running the world that there would be no wars. I won’t dignify that with any deeper analysis than to say that this too is one more (feeble) way of looking for absolution in the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality.

Suicide Solution

That still left the question, why do men take their own lives in such alarmingly high numbers compared to women? I had to do a bit of research on this, but the demographics for male suicide today show some patterns. 7 in 10 suicides are men (majority white) between the ages of 45 and 65. As expected from gynocentric media, the primary reason always cited is men’s so called stubbornness in seeking out psychiatric help before they attempt suicide – again absolving women’s influence of any complicity – but ignoring what would motivate men, and this demographic in particular, to suicide. Again, there’s no attempt to understand the underlying reasons for male suicide, only a stereotypically easy ‘male-stupid’ answer to absolve women’s complicity in it.

There’s a lot to consider and be sensitive of when it comes to male suicide, but I’m going to speculate about a few reasons here coming from a Red Pill perspective. At no other time in western history has there ever been a generation of more purposeless men. From an evolved psychological perspective, men need a function. We are innate idealists. We look outward at the world and like to imagine what could be possible. I believe there is also an innate part of our evolved mental firmware that predisposes us to problem solving and improvisation, and much of that comes as an adaptation to women’s own innate need for men who can display cues of competency.

In Competency I made the case for women’s attraction to men displaying signals of competency, confidence, mastery and creative intelligence as a selected-for survival adaptation. In short, our competency in life, whether stemming from physical prowess, social dominance or creative intelligence is integrally linked with our reproductive success as well as overall life success.

However, at no other time in history has men’s competency been so devalued and so debased; other than perhaps in terms of physical prowess and accommodating the short term (Alpha Fucks) breeding imperatives of women. At no other time in (western) history has the equity in what a man can provide or create or solve been so implicitly unnecessary or superfluous to women. When we consider the rates of college enrollment and graduation of women compared to that of men, when we consider the practical problems that men used to solve, our utility has never been less needed – or at least that’s the zeitgeist of today.

We read about how men need to accept this new social reality – that our need for purpose and function is no longer needed or as valued – and we need to change our headspace about it as if it were something men might simply turn off. This is the result of equalist beliefs that anything gender-specific is something learned rather than the innate firmware we were born with. But we cannot simply change our minds about needing a function. We evolved to be problem solvers, women talk, men do, but now we are expected to accept that men are obsolete.

Loss of Utility

In Relational Equity I made a case for men investing too much of their egos into what intrinsic (and extrinsic) value they believe their respective women ought to appreciate about themselves. Under the old books, old social contract this equity may have had some conditional value to women, but as a buffer against Hypergamy today there is very little a man might consider value-added equity (unless it’s exceedingly rare or exceedingly valued) as a hedge against Hypergamy. Before any defeatist critics tell me how not all women are like that, yes, I get it, there are a lot of variables to consider here, but the equation and the reality doesn’t change – relational equity, overall, is no insurance against Hypergamy. It is also no insurance against women’s security and providership needs being met by resources that come from outside that relationship. I’m not considering this because I’m trying to depress any man, but it is vitally necessary to consider when we look at reasons why 45-65 year old men are predisposed to higher rates of suicide and higher rates of alcoholism and opioid abuse.

I would argue that a major contributing factor to high male suicide rates finds its origins in men’s need for purpose, function and accomplishment during this phase of life. Every day I read an article about how men my own age are dropping out of social discourse. I mentioned a Boston Globe article about just this phenomenon in Male Control. In some respects I can understand that despite the unprecedented connectivity we enjoy today men really don’t seek out bonds with other men. This is primarily due to the fact that men need a common purpose in order to form these bonds. Again, this is just how we’re wired. Women intentionally schedule time to simply interact with their same-sex friends just for the sake of communicating and enjoying the act of communicating. Men need function or a common purpose to come together. We need an activity or a problem to solve and then we communicate and form bonds.

Women talk, men do. This is a well studied fact; our brains and, by extension, social networks largely center on purpose and function. Now, lets presume that in spite of having literally all the information in the world at our finger tips we remove all need for the utility that men are wired to provide to not just women, but the larger scope of Society. We get a generation of men on the outside looking in. Only the most creative, resourceful and motivated of men can really utilize, much less master, all that this information has to offer him. And even a portion of those men can really see past the antipathy of their supposed obsolescence to do something truly meaningful or masterful. As the saying goes, most men live lives of quiet desperation, but in the modern era these men are demonstrably useless. And I mean that in a functional sense; once a Beta man has been wrung of his utility to women, he ceases to be able to convince his hindbrain that he can build, improvise or solve things.

Once a man is stripped of his usefulness, once it’s made clear that all of the equity he believed would support his relationship has been erased after so long, men will still resort to practical, deductive solutions. That solution may be suicide when weighed with the prospect of having to rebuild himself in a new context; and even if he did would he just be building a new ‘him’ based on his old belief set?

When my brother in-law committed suicide it seemed to me at the time to be the most logical end he would come to. He was a man very steeped in Blue Pill ideals, but he was also a man who prided himself on what he could do – and if he didn’t know how to do something he was always a fast learner. He literally built his life, and expectations of a future life, around the relational equity he believed defined him as a man. He was very invested in the old books, old social contract that rooted a man’s attractiveness and quality in what it was he could do. What he built for himself and his wife defined his identity.

All of that 20+ years of building equity and an identity based on it was erased for him in the space of about six months. But it was more than the 20 years he’d been saving, building, solving and refining, it was a perceived future he believed would be lived out for the rest of his life that got erased.

To me, at that time, his suicide made absolutely perfect sense from a male-deductive logic perspective. What didn’t make sense was all of the endless rationalizations I heard from his family, friends, his kids, his Ex (my now widowed sister in-law) about why they thought he went through with it when it was plain for anyone who wanted to confront the truth to see. A lot of these rationales were almost verbatim the same that the article I linked used. “If only men would reach out when they have suicidal thoughts”, any and every rationale that might absolve his Ex of the guilt, and still more that were meant to console her (he must’ve been mental ill) though in the end she really didn’t need it.

My brother in-law made a practical decision not an emotional one, and while I wouldn’t presume to say that a guy’s emotional state isn’t very influential in his suicide, how he comes to the decision is very much attributable to men’s deductive nature. He showed no outward signs of emotional distress. In fact, right up to his hanging himself he was in very good spirits and seemingly accepting of the fact that the wife he lived his life for was going to be leaving him soon. He was very matter of fact in a way that men are when they’ve resolved something for themselves. When a guy seems to be taking things in stride we don’t want to create a problem where we see none.

When we look in this context at the high rate of male suicide in this age demographic we begin to see how men come to this decision. Everything they’ve built up to 45-65 years of age is now debased, devalued or simply erased. All of the value and equity they’ve committed their lives to – doing the right thing according to their Blue Pill conditioning – is as if it never mattered. So they’re confronted with a choice, rebuild themselves (hopefully in a new Red Pill aware paradigm), reconstruct a new life and tough it out, or, simply, pragmatically erase themselves.

Personally, I’ve had at least two occasions where I’ve been confronted with rebuilding myself. It’s a tough prospect, make no mistake, especially when you’re Red Pill aware and understand the reality behind having to rebuild a life from scratch after so much investment in plans and projects you truly believed in when you made them. My father had to confront this rebuilding too at around 55 years of age, but rather than rebuild or kill himself I watched him slowly decay into a man I never knew could exist as my dad.

Zeroed Out

I apologize if this topic is a bit of a downer, but I think it ought to be part of any Red Pill aware man’s understanding that at many points in our lives we will be confronted with the prospects of having to rebuild ourselves. Failure, rejection and disappointment will happen for you, that’s just part of a man’s life, and it’s easy to rattle off platitudes about how many times you get back up being the measure of a man. But what I’m saying is there will be times when total reconstruction of your life will be a necessity.

You will be zeroed out at some point, and how you handle this is a much different situation than any temporary setback. This zeroing out is made all the more difficult when you confront the fact that what you believed to be so valuable, the equity you were told was what others would measure you by, was all part of your Blue Pill conditioning. At that point you need to understand that there is most definitely a hope for a better remake of yourself based on truths that were learned in the hardest way.

To end this I’m going to quote the comment of a man I met when I spoke at the 21 Convention in September. I won’t use his name, but after we talked he confessed that he was the commenter here. He’d made the trip to the convention to meet me face to face, to thank me for my work and gave me permission to use his example in a post. I won’t quote it entirely, but you can read the whole thing here. His situation is an example of, and inspiration for, everything I’ve illuminated in this essay

After a long marriage I divorced the mother of my children. A couple of years later, after some casual dating, I met a woman I would come to describe as my soulmate. I got married young – but this time, with all my infinite wisdom gained over the years – I was finally wise enough to pick a woman I was super compatible with.

We were together for a few years and even lived together. Things started out great and it was mostly smooth sailing until we moved in together – at which time I slowly allowed myself to be betaized in a slow motion, excruciating painful way.

About a month after breaking up with her I fully planned to commit suicide. I wrote a long letter explaining my rationalization and took other affirmative steps towards going through with it. About a week after I wrote the note – with D(eath) Day fast approaching – I took a break from getting my affairs in order to surf the net. I stumbled upon an Ask Reddit thread that was bad mouthing various subreddits. Some feminazi or male feminist mentioned the Red Pill subreddit as an example of a subreddit filled with craziness, and I decided to check what all of the fuss was about. Now

I’m not a religious man, but I will never rule out divine intervention. The timing of finding TRP – by complete coincidence no less – couldn’t have been more fortuitous. I stayed up all night reading the side bar – Rollo’s essays having the deepest effect on me – and everything…just…clicked….Talk about connecting the dots! Wow! It was very much like a come to Jesus moment. It was like divinity revealed secret knowledge to me just when I needed it the most – knowledge that gave me hope and very well may have saved my life. This all went down not really that long ago in actual time – but from where I metaphorically stand now it seems like an eternity.

Stay strong my friends, you can rebuild yourself even in the face of being zeroed out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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cheupez
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Nagging is a shit test.

Sentient
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HABD

comment image

IF it goes bad (and i get ‘zeroed out’… which will suck, but shit happens…), i’ll just have to adjust/start over/make the best of the situ by moving in with a couple of college age hotty roommates

EhIntellect
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Maintaining LTR AF attraction:

Don’t talk finances.
Don’t talk consumption.
Don’t talk options.
Don’t talk your thoughts.
Don’t talk fight club.

https://giphy.com/gifs/michael-the-godfather-ending-LUDaZxrkllZvy

RedPill Tex
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When I was 27, I had the bluepill shit storm. That moment when you (at first) realize that everything is bullshit and not adding up to what you believed your entire life up to that point. I had just returned to an empty home after an 8 month deployment (All my shit was there, she was not). I spent the entire night with my .45 pressed against my forehead so hard it literally left a bruise. What finally snapped me out of the haze was a text message from a friend, inviting me to Milwaukee to get away from the… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Rollo, I think this is a funny-as-F#ck graphic that perfectly represents that journey from happy, clueless blue pill beta, to red-pill-shocked beta, to enlightened red piller.

comment image

Tex, think of this whenever you may get down.

EhIntellect
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“I had just returned to an empty home after an 8 month deployment…” Hi RPTex. Thank you for sharing. You have friends here. A soldier buddy, early 90’s, came home to an empty apt. too. Not even a fork…but left the blinking Christmas tree. Who leaves just the fucking tree?? He admitted he put his 9mm Beretta to his head many times, didn’t leave the apt, watching the lights blink, hours of on…off…on…off…on. Although sympathetic, it all seemed so foreign to me then. He was the nice guy, I thought her mentally ill, not status quo woman behavior. We became… Read more »

Sentient
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“I literally flipped 180 degrees, mentally, in the span of 24 hours. ‘

This. Flip the switch.

newlyaloof
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@rollo, I’m gonna throw this resource out there even though I’m sure dudes will come back and wanna debate it. Don’t like it? Don’t use the resource.

My sibling died of cancer and I studied this site for quite some time.

https://www.cancertutor.com/

Traks
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This story actually made me to make a first comment on this website. It is correctly written, and is the main reason behind opiates and suicide epidemics in USA, and alcoholism problems in Soviet Union and current Russia. People, and especially men lose sight of the future. They do not see how they can make future for them and their loved ones better, so they look for another solution. For permanent solution with gun, or temporary solution with pills or alcohol. As not everybody can get up after they are beaten multiple times. If I would had to live longer… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“I was Red Pill aware and I have confidence in my capacity to reconstruct myself.” Sleeping with a clear conscience is priceless, and certainty is critical for that. Sometimes that means when events are out of hand, accept a loss today for a greater gain tomorrow and move on, ASAP. Uncertainty today, but different and better days ahead. I don’t assume but Jes is doing what he can to live but also hedging his bets for the worst. If given an existential threat, and survived, would I slowly return to status quo ante? If BP, more likely. IMO, no man… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Hence situation in USA will only get worse, as more people are pushed into situations where they see no choice and no future.

A healthy RP man with social skills will always have a choice and a future of his own making.

O.B.I.T.
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Zeroed out …
Would it be worse to lose your wife and family in a car crash, house fire etc …
Or worse to have your wife and family turn their backs on you, send you into exile
Is it worse that they are truly gone gone gone …
Or worse when they are still somewhere out there but you are dead to them?

SJB
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@newlyaloof: great GIF. Babies — they do something like that and then you have to keep ’em. LOL

EhIntellect
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“Blue Pill idealistic goals that a fem-centric world told them would be their reward”

We’re at a point where the quid pro quo facade has dropped. BP behaviors are openly mocked, litigated. Only by coercion will this continue.

Expectations of men are unsustainably high. Men are shrugging.

I meet many able bodied men who don’t work. They don’t see the purpose of it. They don’t need much and reward themselves with gaming the system rather than being gamed. Better than suicide.

SJF
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“A healthy RP man with social skills will always have a choice and a future of his own making.” In the following video I’m merely pointing out factors addressed in LTR Game. I’m not advocating someone lean toward LTR Game. Most of the points here are red pill. And it’s only 5 minutes. He talks fast. https://youtu.be/zFx_TolJk64 We all have different life paths and and different stages of our path. Most of the points here are red pill. Robbins advocates for being more of a creator before, during and after pursuing relationship game, rather than a traditional male hunter. When… Read more »

Chump No More
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@Rollo, “Personally, I’ve had to face being zeroed out at least 3 times in my life, and I’ll tell you that the last 2 times were much easier because I was Red Pill aware and I have confidence in my capacity to reconstruct myself.” Rollo, I can’t agree with this enough. First time, wife of 20 years tried to ‘zero me out’ and I had a close call with stepping into that abyss for all the failed rationalizations you have previously stated.It took a strong love for my kids to claw my way out of that dark place to fight… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ mersonia “That’s actually a really good question. How long can anyone really keep it up. How long can game which girls will grow accustomed too stand and if you are in a marriage is it upheld by desire or just the fact that the female has invested(lol idk if thats good word (I think become accustomed to being part of your life is better) so much in it that she just decides its better to stay. I’d really like someone with game and that is married to awnser that… queue ( blax sentybear.. shit even SJF (Not you ASD… Read more »

having a bad day
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@Sentient

poor ol’ brer fox… still trapped in the FI/BP…lol

here’s me right before that happened…

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tarrabbit.jpg

i was fightin’ that BP tar baby… jus’ like any other BP WK/beta/nice guy…lol…

NEVER again…

good luck!

theasdgamer
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Mostly you cannot keep that kind of desire going for a LTR or marriage, Lol, maybe you can’t…that damned ol’ FI is subtle and persistent, lol…that’s why I keep saying that in a LTR, you must keep the girl chasing you all the time…you must be the prize…if the girl is chasing you, she will desire you, cause that’s just how biology works…I know people get tired of me saying that you need unconscious competence at getting a girl to chase you for a LTR to work…it really is just standard Mystery Method…this means that Dread Game is essential (not… Read more »

theasdgamer
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She can’t ” catch on ” because it’s not a pattern of behavior. Avoid being Pattern Man whenever possible PLEASE. This is why you create drama in a relationship…if she thinks she has figured you out, then you need to create drama because she won’t be expecting that and it will force her to recalibrate. This means that you need to be able to read when a woman thinks she has figured you out and then you break out the drama. Sometimes I stay out past 1 a.m. to create drama and extra Dread. I don’t think about it consciously,… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ asd

respectfully, the things most of the stuff you name are not sufficient in a marriage or even a ltr.

Even Mystery found this out the hard(er) way.

You’re still talking about pickup. A girl wearing your ring, living in your house, doesn’t have to ” chase you ” if you’re right there in the living room. Lol.

Sentient
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Tar Baby

Lesson in frame. “Da tah baby… He doen say nuthin’.”

Blaximus
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Drama is indeed one way. It’s not ever a go-to.

Remember, don’t be a ( predictable ) Pattern Man. ” I do this and get a drama fest out of him…”.

rugby11
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A girl wearing your ring, living in your house, doesn’t have to ” chase you ” if you’re right there in the living room. Lol. In the living room sometimes, but not too much…not too available…not giving her too much attention…she has to work for it…she has to compete for your attention…with the girls in her imagination and the girls you actually know… …in every strong marriage, the girl chases the man who is higher value… …every man in a strong marriage uses Dread… …if you want stability, create drama before the girl does…a fire break…we’ve discussed this before and… Read more »

Keith
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Rollo I see your story about your friend sad. So after the funeral you gonna hook his hot widow up with a friends or what ? You see Rollo that’s the way I think. You got zeriod men then you got sub zeriod men that got nothing to lose. It is what it is. I swear man I’d give anything to be OMG. Omg want to be players and hustlers want to be omgs it’s a catch 22. I keep waiting Rollo waiting and reading waiting for you to cover the part of the manhood that absolves me that forgives… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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Keith
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I’m go away I done said to much sorry if said I wanted to fuck your cancer friends wife Rollo much respect for you and your contributors. I don’t got collage brains like that. I just tired of being me. But i can’t be nobody else man. Been reading you for years now. But you don’t cover what I’m looking for. And I can’t explain it. It’s just the life man I thank you. I don’t want to be me but I don’t know how to be that guy. I read dalrock and I went to church but it don’t… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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LTR is an inevitable drag after some time. Coolidge effect is as real in humans as it is in rats.

Traks
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@asdgamer

So 99% of blue pill men are not important and nobody cares about them, is what you are saying? Great mindset right there.

From my side, that is why socialization with other men is so important. When man is isolated, he can make mistakes that are hard or impossible to reverse. And over time, often it is possible to help him see the naked truth. Admittedly it can take years, but only men can save men. Even just 12 steps of dread can save a marriage.

jon
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nice said

one thing: Zeroed out…is that the male equivalent of “The Wall”?

NO ITS NOT

We can rebuild, better, stronger..

Woman cant rebuild after the wall has reached, i mean in a physical way

How many cirguries a woman can do, etc? at least for now.. the technologie doesnt provide them a solution… at least for now..

A man in his forties and even fifties, goes to the gym, make a FUE operation if needed, ahs wisdom, experience, and he can absolutly have a girl on her twenties..

So, for me.. no Zeroed out is not THE WALL, thanks God

The Solitary Silver FoX
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Gentlemen, can we please stop using ‘lol’…it is so feminine, so gay. When i see ‘lol’ at the end of a statement, i just can’t take it seriously. It’s like some dim-witted chick has written it. You can’t be red pill & alpha and use ‘lol’…

Seriously…

If-I-Fell
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I’ve been following along, but I’m still not sure how we got from suicide to menopause. Anyway, Platinum Rule, I successfully completed a “pre-dawn vertical insertion” on a menopausal woman. I won’t rehash, but HRT for extended play. As Blax said, don’t placate, don’t be overly sympathetic as to be in her frame. It would be like if you had a treatable disease, but chose not to treat it. Also, sex, post menopause is like inviting your woman to go the symphony after she has suffered moderate hearing loss. She’ll go, she’ll enjoy parts of the performance, but it’s not… Read more »

Sentient
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Rugby

Smashing Pumpkins and no Zero? On this thread…

I never let on, that I was on a sinking ship
I never let on that I was down
You blame yourself, for what you can’t ignore
You blame yourself for wanting more

She’s the one for me
She’s all I really need, oh yeah
She’s the one for me
She’s my one and only

Sentient
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Cheupez

LTR is an inevitable drag after some time.

And going out and banging yet another chick, doing the exact same things over and over isn’t a drag? Same coin different sides.

The key to each is pursuing what you want, not plateauing, not stagnating.

Sentient
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if you create drama,

he other day my wife said “you are a drama queen, Mr. Sentient”. She meant it as a shit test but I had to smile. I do like some drama, some friction as Laird Hamilton might say. And I do tend to the Old 97’s Rhett Miller’s line “Well it must get hard to be partnered with me, some narcissism, some OCD…”

Here is the thing about drama, when people are reacting to your drama, they are in your frame. People who complain about drama are those operating in the other’s frame.

else it’s

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Roused
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@Silver Fox Laughing loudly….ummm….ok. Yes, better grammar does get the message across more effectively. It’s all about the presentation, right? Also depends on who your audience is. I text and communicate with my daughter and GF differently than with men. Same with emojis. I don’t send my boss smiley faces. I got a new boss, a VP, about a year ago and it’s a blast to work with him. We shit test each other nonstop. @Blax hit another homerun on the desire thing. Everything he wrote was spot on. You don’t have to bang her in a car, a hiking… Read more »

dr zipper
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“You can’t be red pill & alpha and use ‘lol'”

sez u

suck my diction lol

Blaximus
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I could wear a form fitting dress and stylish pumps and not be feminine.

I get the ” lol ” criticism though, but it’s a habit now. I actually do laugh out loud sometimes when writing a comment.

I’ll keep doing this because I like it and I’m comfortable with it ( thanks yareally ). If i ever write a novel or a technical manual, I’ll be sure to leave out the ” lol’s “.

Why so serious?

Lol.

SJB
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@dr zipper: LOL. Chortle. Guffaw. Snort. Chuckle.

Blaximus
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@ Sentient

I agree about drama, but I was speaking of using it consistently as a go to, lest it become a routine. Trying to address the need to not be very predictable in relationships or in life as a whole. Formulaic.

having a bad day
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@The Solitary Silver FoX Gentlemen, can we please stop using ‘lol’…it is so feminine, so gay. When i see ‘lol’ at the end of a statement, i just can’t take it seriously. It’s like some dim-witted chick has written it. You can’t be red pill & alpha and use ‘lol’… Seriously… how’s that FI treating ya?…lol could you feel the FI’s hand on your shoulder pushing on you to try to shame other men for discussing RP?… as you continue to try to resolve the cognitive dissonance between RP reality (which is being discussed in an accurate, albeit non-FI-approved manner)… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“Don’t become robotic under any circumstances – and this is whether you are in a marriage/ltr or single. Never be a dogmatic slave.”

Oh but no! First you socially prove yourself, then you open, then you A&A, then you kino, then you laze, then you….

Blax…rekindling a PUA fight.

@ asd

Women will make their own drama when not provided. In an LTR, she chasing the Alpha is drama itself, no extra work needed.

EhIntellect
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LOL! IJEAOMK!

(I just ejaculated all over my keyboard!}

Blaximus
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@ Roused The very first gf/sexual partner I ever had, was passionate and she gave it up on command. It took me many years and several ego blows for me to get that she didn’t desire me in the way that I desired her. It took engaging with a chick that was desirous of me for this to click. In either case, I was getting laid, but I’d prefer to have a chick that has a high level of desire, preferably towards me, lol…. Whoops, I did it again. After having desire sex I was very curious as to whether… Read more »

dr zipper
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“(I just ejaculated all over my keyboard!}”

I’ve heard of keyboard jockeying but keyboard jerking?

tssfx: you might want to sit down for this one

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! wink

Blaximus
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P.S.

Also ” sex ” is probably one of the areas in life where patience and discerning is most difficult due to all of that urgency. Just keep that in mind…. After you ejaculate of course.

Ronin
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The whole “Frame” thing is interesting. The reason men now have a problem with it is the simple truths it upholds and was once ingrained in every man’s mind by puberty has been made increasingly considered Taboo , Anti-women, Misogynist…etc. The tenants of frame used to be enforced by society, a man whose wife browbeat him would be ridiculed in public or her for being a Scold. The legends men were told and sage advice by older men enforced the basic idea ” The road to a woman’s mind is a profitless journey” and “One can never weaken” All that… Read more »

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https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/the-dramatic-grammatic-evolution-of-lol/ The meaning of Lol has changed–it often doesn’t mean laughing out loud. You might have noticed this. It sometimes a way to flag that a message is meant to be funny or to signal irony. It doesn’t convey actual laughter most of the time. Sometimes it’s a nod of the the head or a marker of irony or humor and more besides. Sometimes its a nod of deference to another man. Guys in groups work on accomplishing something and sometimes it indicates that they are working side to side, or shoulder to shoulder instead of face to face trying… Read more »

rugby11
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“The tenants of frame used to be enforced by society, a man whose wife browbeat him would be ridiculed in public or her for being a Scold. The legends men were told and sage advice by older men enforced the basic idea ” The road to a woman’s mind is a profitless journey” and “One can never weaken””

levijynx
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“Rollo wrote about Playing with her and playing with her”

Can someone link me to this article.

SJF
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@ Ronin

Watch Rollo’s interview with Donovan Sharpe that he posted above (December 5, 2017 at 10:48 am). Start at the 40:00 mark. Listen through the 49:00 mark.

rugby11
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Not Born This Morning
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Rose McGowan: ‘They Really F–ed With the Wrong Person’ – TIME

A whore went to Hollyweird so she could whore her way into wealth and “fame”. Subsequently this whore was sexually molested or raped by a whore monger who also went to Hollyweird so he could become wealthy off the whores in Hollyweird.

WHY SHOULD THE REST OF US HAVE TO PAY FOR IT !!!!!!!?

rugby11
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Not Born This Morning
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“@NBTM, are you ever going to read a TRM post and understand that I’m not writing about how things should be, but rather I’m writing about how things are?”

Reject how they are. There is no “should be” except what a person wants individually. Yes, one cannot have everything and some compromise is always inevitable. But, there has been far too much compromise. We are where we are because of complicity. Analization and rhetoric are only excecizes in recognizing, describing, and complaining. Reject how things are or they will continue as they are and worse.

rugby11
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Sentient
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Blax “Still, when I see it, the hair on the back of my neck still stands up and when I start it my heartrate quickens.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh5jfvNOwK0 I stopped off at the Quicksack For some beer and cigarettes The old man took my money As he stared at my Corvette He said, I had one just like her son A nineteen-sixty-three Till the man down at the Bank took her from me Oh, She was hotter than a two-dollar pistol She was the fastest thing around Long and lean, every young man’s dream She turned every head in town She was… Read more »

rugby11
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EhIntellect
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“But if you are going to war, leave your clear thinking behind and join a tribe.” Wars require society-scale involvement compelling all to protect the state interests. Wars require abondoning personal welfare for often vague objectives. Wars are marketed too. Tribes reinforce personal conviction, otherwise, why join? Maybe this is a semantics issue. Using fighting terminology regarding the feminism is stemwinding (I use it too) but the reality is learn guerrilla tactics to survive another day. NBTM, I feel your frustration. Don’t know much about you, but here goes anyways: Don’t blow yourself, career, reputation up in an unwinnable social… Read more »

dr zipper
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an analogy… in my poor youth, I managed to get my hands on a beater dirt bike, it was such bad shape that maybe it was given to me or obtained for nearly free; I didn’t care, I had myself a motorcycle and having fun was tops on the list the bike, however, tended to be in need of constant repairs; flat tires, leaks, bent and broken shit wearing out; I had minimal tools… screwdrivers, crescent wrench, vise grips, hammer; no sockets, power tools, impact drivers, sized wrenches, internet, manuals, friends-in-the-know… nothing like that; not to mention trying to earn… Read more »

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Ronin
“Maintain the Frame” sticky notes …
Maybe you should give the U.S. patent office a call

theasdgamer
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@IIF

She’ll go, she’ll enjoy parts of the performance, but it’s not the same for her.

Create the need…hike the sexual tension…

theasdgamer
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@SJF

tee hee

EhIntellect
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@ Dr. Zipper

Nice!

EhIntellect
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Off topic, Seeing Marilyn above…she was a size 12, but not by today’s standards. Following the war, more standard measurements were put in place for womenswear, and in the 1950s, a commercial standard was set. Women’s clothing for off-the-rack production would range from 8 to 38 based first on bust, and then height, hips, and girth. There was no such thing as a sizes 0 through 6. This sizing was standard through the early 1980s when it was withdrawn—companies noticed that appealing to one’s vanity helped with sales (which still holds true today). The private standards organization ASTM International, which… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
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Christine Keeler, a beautiful young British Caberet Dancer who destroyed lives of many Alphas and Betas and brought down the Conservative Government in the UK 1963 because of her affairs. She passed away on 05/12/17 at 75 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Keeler

She was a hot mess:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=mEJVAeuw&id=7176294BAD92B86A619BAEB346D58A3D72FE26FA&thid=OIP.mEJVAeuw3Z-xnUl-kpUQxgDREq&q=christine+keeler&simid=608038857057242218&selectedIndex=24&ajaxhist=0

All the men in her life operated in her frame and she ruined their lives.

Rest in peace.

Mr. Roboto
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The FI strikes back!!!

comment image?w=500

rugby11
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Not Born This Morning
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“No amount of power of positive thinking, no amount of self-convincing that ‘he defines what’s useful and valuable’ is going to alter the fact that all he’d built will need to be rebuilt now.” True, but this is not about positive thinking, it’s about knowing who you are and celebrating it, living, and don’t you think that on some level, at least subconsciously, the beta slave knows what he signed up for, what he agreed to going in? “The higher we fly, the further we have to drop” And then there was the guy who flew so high his wings… Read more »

rugby11
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Not Born This Morning
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Kudos to Jes.

Lance Armstrong kicked its ass. Maybe Jes can to. Maybe If I had it and did everything and thought everything Lance did I would also kick its ass, maybe not. Maybe some modern medical magic bullet helped. Maybe not.

But then Lance is an “asshole”…..because he was doing the same thing everyone else was. LOL!

I would rather burn out than fade away.

It’s better to go down in flames than waste away whimpering in a cave.

Kudos to Jes.

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@Roboto

That’s not “strikes back”, that’s just more of the same. Remember, TIME picked Hitler as Man of the Year back in the 1930’s, around ’36 or so. “Entity of the year” doesn’t mean much.

I’m kind of surprised it still exists.

Not Born This Morning
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Would you fuck any of these?

comment image?w=500

Not Born This Morning
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dr zipper

You just rewrote “Zen and The Art of Motorcyce Maintenance”

I like your condensed version much better, it’s succinct, concise and right to the point.

O.B.I.T.
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Maybe 2 out of 5, but not if they’re going to “bravely step forward” and complain about it in 2037

Anonymous Reader
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@Roboto notice who is and who is not on that cover.

@Blaximus – does your employer have a Christmas or Holiday party? If so I bet it is way toned down this year.

Blaximus
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” Would you fuck any of these?”

Sure.

Sentient
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How pissed is Rose McGowan to miss the cover. Lolliest of lols… 😂

Blaximus
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@ AR My company is one of the last remaining ” Old School ” conservative companies. The parties have always been subdued mostly, but I’m sure it will be even more so this year. I’ve not attended 1 Holiday Party since joining the company. Not inclined to do so. After work I try to put great distances between me and all coworkers. 10-15 years ago, people at my job used to go out in groups on Friday nights to bars in the area, and then come back on the job site ( where they’d met up and parked their cars… Read more »

Sentient
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Christmas parties got tuned down when DWI became a major liability thing… and Holiday Parties are de facto HR nightmares to start with.

dr zipper
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nbtm – “Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”

been on my reading list for ages but haven’t gotten around to it; maybe I’ll just scratch it off my list now that I’ve lived it instead

or better yet, any of y’all interested in becoming a producer for the movie version? even if it bombs I hear we can at least wear out the casting couch to help kickstart (hehe) some hot starlet’s career

creeps need not apply

Not Born This Morning
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“NBTM, I feel your frustration. Don’t know much about you, but here goes anyways: Don’t blow yourself, career, reputation up in an unwinnable social battle. Better to blend in working quietly against your oppressors.” Ah ha, Yes, been there, done that. Good at it (heh). The slyest foxes get the best hens. Enter their frame, and then fuck it all up, take everything you can, “rob” the house. Watching the fallout is entertaining to say the least. Only a few of us know this truth. “Song birds” do not “sing” of joy and ecstasy. They literally scream lust and contemptuous… Read more »

cheupez
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Fuck your way to the top (or fail, trying). Then get second thoughts twenty years later and harangue the fuckee to death on social media and the mainstream media. Bonus points: get named Times person of the year.

WTF???

kfg
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Wait wut, Time still exists?

IAS
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@KFG: Time waits for no man!

EhIntellect
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@NBTM

“If you think I’m “weird” or “evil” ”

At what Rollo was saying, there isn’t evil or good, there is and isn’t.

Something’s are nice and others not nice, perhaps.

That’s what we’re finding here. Truth.

Have a nice evening!

EhIntellect
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Space waits for no man!

dr zipper
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Time’s ‘??? of the Year’ was ostensibly about someone’s impact on the world, not how ‘good’ they are…. hence Hitler’s (and Stalin, etc.) inclusion among others

however, the crones on display this year make about as much sense as giving Chicken Little credit for the sky falling

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kfg

Wait wut, Time still exists?

Dentists across the land make it possible. There are still people in waiting rooms who don’t have a book, tablet or smartphone.

dr. zipper
Time’s ‘??? of the Year’ was ostensibly about someone’s impact on the world, not how ‘good’ they are…. hence Hitler’s (and Stalin, etc.) inclusion among others

Get your boring facts out of my fun argument!

however, the crones on display this year make about as much sense as giving Chicken Little credit for the sky falling

That cover is all about feeding the FI. Again, note who isn’t there.

SJF
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“Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” …been on my reading list for ages but haven’t gotten around to it; maybe I’ll just scratch it off my list now that I’ve lived it instead NBTM was correct in his assessment of of you giving the Cliff’s Notes version of it. But that’s only 10% of it. I wouldn’t cross it off just yet. It changed my life in 1979 and re-redeemed me in 2015 (as well as making me bring tears to my eyes as I finished it on my brick paver patio in light of practicing Red Pill). It… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . note who isn’t there.”

And he’s been blowing the whistle a lot longer than that Leno chin chic, and longer than Swift has been alive.

Mitch
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Great post Rollo. Sobering and poignant and relevant. I’m not up to date on the comments but wanted to follow on a Blaximus comment way above about paying attention to what you feed your brain and learning to discern the truth or falseness of the thoughts in your head. KEY point! My thoughts also tie into the Twitter debate Rollo had wrt the cause of male suicide. I think he nails it regarding what is driving men to this point. But it is also true that men have a tendency to not recognize when they need help, and a reluctance… Read more »

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