The Creep – Part 3

One of the parts of our evolved, human mental firmware is a need to see order in the chaotic. Pattern recognition in humans seems likely to have been a selected-for trait that aided in our survival in the past. Thus, we look for consistencies that help us predict what will likely come to be or to help us plan for eventualities. As such we had a need to categorize things in our environments as well as in other people (members of our tribe vs. the members of a competing tribe for instance). Naturally, we apply this need for familiarity and recognition to other people which is how stereotypes emerged. I feel the term ‘creep’ is one such categorization, but this is really a proxy term for a type of person that conveys a certain feeling we get from them.

There is an instinctual, animal-level recognition we get from other people’s behavior, looks, smells, subcoms, voice intonations, etc. Pattern recognition has been a survival adaptation in human being’s for sometime because it saved our conscious mind from having to perform rote memorization of each of these aspects and forming a definite identity for each and every individual we meet. It saves our brains from having to consciously process large amounts of data without being overwhelmed.

From People are People:

Human beings have an amazing capacity to multi-task, but a real trained focus on multiple sources of stimuli was problematic for us in our evolutionary past. Too much constant stimuli leads to sensory overload and a breakdown in functionality, which then proves fatal if we’re distracted from reacting to a lethal threat. Thus, we evolved psychological mechanisms to push less (though still) important information to the peripheries of our conscious awareness, to afford us a mental acuity on information of more importance.

One of my personal, foundational theories about psychology is that people are intimately aware of their own conditions.

This is a good starting point in clarifying why we feel a need to typify others. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. I’m starting off with this today because the last part of the creep story is about men setting off this trigger in women.

I’ve written on several occasions about how women constantly complain about how the stereotypical ‘Nice’ guy can turn into a ‘creep’ when it turns out that all the guy was being nice for was part of his Beta Game of identifying with her in order to get to intimacy. There’s a lot going on in a situation like this, but fundamentally it represents a situation where a woman’s Hypergamous filters are fooled (or not) by a guy misrepresenting himself as one asset to her Hypergamous understanding of him and then his revealing and confirming for her that he expects her to believe he’s something else.

I’ve also written before that nothing is more flattering for a woman to believe that she’s figured out a man by using her mythological feminine intuition. However, there is a flip side to this ego-compliment to women, and that’s when her ‘intuitive’ assessment of a man’s SMV status compared to her (self-perceived) own proves to be false. Nothing is more offensive to a woman than for her to have made an assessment of a guy based on her mythical intuition and then to have it prove inaccurate.

The reason this is so offensive is because women’s Hypergamous optimization with any man is largely dependent on her intuition. Hypergamy and women’s long -term breeding strategy depends on assessing men’s SMV and their utility to her accurately. This is often compounded by women being sold on the infallibility of their feminine intuition – courtesy of a feminine-primary social order – and grossly exaggerated self-perceptions of their own SMV, and the caliber of men they ‘know’ they must deserve. But as with most things human there is also a learned / trained aspect of pattern recognition. Much of this learned side for women is often distorted by our female-important society.

Hypergamy cannot afford to incorrectly assess a man’s status and value. There is only a finite window of optimization while a woman is in her peak desirability in life. So it should come as little surprise that if a man misrepresents himself as something other than what he is – either deliberately or by misunderstanding – women feel an offense on the limbic level. It’s an offense that confirms she’s wasted her very precious time with a Hypergamous dead end. And, needless to say, Game is a form of deliberately tricking a woman’s Hypergamous filtering – at least in the PUA sense, if not an authentic sense – thus, Game is so vehemently disparaged in women and their identifying sympathizers.

When a woman typifies a guy as a creep what she’s responding to is the fallibility of her intuition, but also his efforts to misrepresent himself as something he’s not to her filtering mechanism. I should also add here that concepts like preselection and social proof are extensions of this filtering process. Only in this case it’s women’s collective, social filtering that’s aiding in an individual woman’s selection and optimization process. As such, that collective of women (the Sisterhood Über Alles) needs a type of man to be the representative of the ‘deceiver of Hypergamy’ – enter the Creep.

I’m actually kind of glad I held out for three posts in this series; it allowed for that many more sexual misconduct allegations to come forward in what’s being called a masculine moral panic today. And as I predicted in Male Control, the feminine social narrative has shifted from a type of masculinity being “toxic” to masculinity itself is toxic.

THE FACT IS, IT’S YOU. IT’S MEN. THE SOCIAL ILL THAT WE CAN’T QUITE PUT OUR FINGER ON IS MEN.

This is a quote from a recent article in Esquire. Yes, Esquire, a magazine that used to be an exclusive male space dedicated to men’s higher aspirations and betterment is now a vehicle for this new narrative of male shaming, and gender loathing. That’s to be expected these days – GQ is a similar platform for the Feminine Imperative’s messaging – but what I found interesting in this article was some of the examples of ‘creepiness’ women believe is rampant in American workplace culture. I had thought that with the rise of HR departments’ directives to police male behavior (at the risk of future unemployability) the issues she mentions would be something men would fear – I guess not.

A coworker knew I had a date the night before, so he asked me how it went. He said, “So, did he get lucky?”

Don’t ask about her romantic life. Don’t refer to her sex life. Don’t ask about the quality of the sex she’s having. Don’t comment that she seems like she needs to get laid. Don’t tell her to lock down a guy before she gets too old and decrepit. Don’t reassure her that with tits like hers, she’ll find a guy some day. Don’t relay details of your own marriage and past in order to comment on hers. Don’t make knowing eyes when she mentions she’s going on date number three. Don’t tell her how to behave on a date. Don’t tell her what guys like on a date. Don’t tell her to wear a low-cut shirt on a date. Don’t make any reference to getting lucky, like, ever.

What guy does any of this? How does he know when a female coworker had a date to begin with? There’s a lot that goes along with how a woman comes to a list of Don’ts, but I think this list represents a good illustration of the creep dynamic. The primary concern she has in all of these Don’ts can all be distilled down to a guy beneath her Hypergamous attraction floor presuming a familiar intimacy with her. I find it very hard to believe any of these Don’ts would be actual occurrences, but I’m looking at them through a Red Pill Lens – yes, it’s entirely likely that Blue Pill creeps would in fact resort to some of these comments.

Essentially the entire article is an effort in berating the Beta men women really want nothing to do with.

YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID OF SAYING OR DOING A WRONG THING AND HAVING IT BE INTERPRETED IN EXACTLY THE WAY YOU MEANT IT.

Women want lesser men to be afraid to approach, compliment and engage with them, but the message is wrapped in generalities to imply all men do these things. This message has the potential to throw the Alphas out with the bathwater, so I would predict there’ll be a few related articles that will of course shame men for not ‘manning up’ and approaching women like a “real man” should.

Dangerous Times

All that said, I can easily imagine Beta men, confused about sexual zoning, engaging in exactly the behaviors described here. It is a very dangerous time to be a Blue Pill Beta today. In fact, I’d argue it’s never been more potentially hazardous for guy ignorant of Game and the nature of intersexual dynamics. I find it very ironic that the men who actually understand the potential for some real life-damaging accusations in the workplace or any other off-limits social context, who take the open door, have-a-witness, policy for working with women are being shamed for it by women. This is the environment they created, but they created it in response to a want for absolute control of their Hypergamous choices.

A “creep” can pretty much be anyone a woman (or women) want that guy to be – even guys who were previously attractive with whom they had consensual sex with. That Alpha they didn’t mind oversharing their sex life information with can be the “creep” if he decides to break things off with her. Again, this comes back to unfettered control of women’s Hypergamous choices as well as absolving them of any regrets they may have had that resulted from them.

Edelweiss had an excellent comment in last week’s thread:

From my perspective, the guys most often labeled a “creep” are those with poor social awareness and/or men who those women see as offering no real value to them.

Now in my mid 40’s, I can see things that would never have registered for a 20yr old version of me. I often think “how did I miss this before?”. My focus now is almost entirely on body language. A woman can consistently lie with what she says, but she (anyone really) can’t consistently lie with their body language. Any guy not well versed in reading the various signs of interest, or a lack of, needs to spend some time studying the basics. It seems simple now.

One of the major mistakes I see guys make, is escalating too quickly. Touching, and sexualizing around a woman who isn’t into you, or is unsure of your value, is a great way to be labeled a creep. How many times have you seen a guy double down on an approach that isn’t working, and consequently become known as a “creeper”? A good number of men get into “pursuit” mode, and completely fuck up their chances by being overzealous.

I’ve got to repeat this, it’s never been a more dangerous time for men unaware of Red Pill intersexual dynamics and even basic Game principles. Blue Pill Beta men have been conditioned and acculturated to default to a Beta Game that is the perfect storm for so volatile a time. These guys literally have no idea that what their interacting with women is doing is setting them up for. Simple compliments and treating women with a default respect is becoming a liability for men with poor social awareness, but this is exactly the type of men our social order has developed for the past 4 generations. These Beta ‘creeps’ who should just know better than to try to approach the ‘average’ woman are the result of decades of raising and acculturating boys to hate their masculine nature and confuse their good intentions with some form of Game women might appreciate.

Pook once had a great quote back on the SoSuave Forum. He said,

How do I judge a woman’s character? I see how she treats people who can do nothing for her.
This test has never failed me.

At this point in time I think we are seeing how women treat the men who can do nothing for them.

479 comments

  1. Spot on. I have never once heard of a woman referred to as a ‘creep.’ Like many a term in the lexicon of pocketbook pathology (ADHD, ‘The Spectrum,’ Narcissism, BPD, Madonna-Whore complex etc.), it seems to say much more about the cadre that apply it.

  2. “That Alpha they didn’t mind oversharing their sex life information with can be the “creep” if he decides to break things off with her. ”

    Back in the 90s, I attended my alma mater college at a time that produced many outstanding athletes, who competed for national titles in football and basketball. Several players were friends, some I knew from competing in high school ball with.

    In a business meeting last year with one of them, who went on to play many years in Europe and is now a successful investor, philanthropist and budding coach, we were discussing running through chicks in the pre-social media and pre-weaponized Title IX era.

    Matter of factly, he told me “I would be kicked out of school today.”

    The subtext of his statement is clear when we consider today versus back then. These guys would dispose of women with an efficiency and insouciance befitting natural alphas who know their worth; they KNOW women want to fuck them, and thus they carry themselves as the prize. Invariably, many of these women would catch feelings, which was often especially hard for them to be discareded, as most were 8.5s and above, and used to being “The Prize,” but hey, they would suck it up and get over it. Besides, the guy she would eventually marry and pursue her picket fence life with would have no idea, so no harm, no foul. More important, no evidence.

    So thus this quote from Rollo hits on what has been going on in college campuses, and what I’ve covered in my blog. The targets of Title IX investigations are disproportionately contextual alphas(frat boys, athletes), who inhabit male in-groups, and thus who get right to it, and thus often have a “smash and dash” orientation. But now there is recourse if you have to make the “walk of shame” back to your dorm, and the gossip accelerant that is social media, often complete with pictoral evidence, increases the incentive to “guard her reputation” in women in the form of sexual assault claims. The Dear Colleague letter provided the perfect delivery system to punish the alphas, specifically institutional infrastructure for (often low SMV) gender feminists who despise them and the normatively masculine. And they can make a good living destroying masculine institutions; see the two women who raped the Baylor football program(https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2017/02/06/baylor-sexual-misconduct-investigators-leave.html). The recent “Gropening” as I termed, is just the back end of it; disproportionately men who used their acquisition of power through talent to access women. But as we’ve seen recently with Gene Simmons and Nick Carter, women who threw themselves at social proof alphas now have recourse DECADES after the fact if they didn’t get the Cinderella Slipper from the guy their social-media inflated egos tell them they are entitled to.

    Game is indispensable, but being wary of your rights and covering your ass leaglly is just as important; Game teaches you how to recognize the F.I. and adopt strategies to deal with it and thrive. However, when excesses of the F.I. are codified, or mechanisms to give recourse for its failures are, Game is of little utility. THAT’s where fighting back legally must be a part of dealing with F.I.

  3. Rollo, women also find men creepy who aren’t interested in those particular women if he ignores them and doesn’t tease them or otherwise be playful and friendly towards them.

  4. “I’ve also written before that nothing is more flattering for a woman to believe that she’s figured out a man by using her mythological feminine intuition. However, there is a flip side to this ego-compliment to women, and that’s when her ‘intuitive’ assessment of a man’s SMV status compared to her (self-perceived) own proves to be false. Nothing is more offensive to a woman than for her to have made an assessment of a guy based on her mythical intuition and then to have it prove inaccurate.”

    “How do I judge a woman’s character? I see how she treats people who can do nothing for her.
    This test has never failed me.

    At this point in time I think we are seeing how women treat the men who can do nothing for them.”

    Something for self before the,…

  5. It is really time for men to start helping each other. Never have the stakes been higher. Get married she takes half your stuff. Go to college get kicked out and labeled a sexual predator. Work with a woman lose your career. On a rumor! I have friends now who won’t go within ten feet of a woman in their careers. Doctor friends who won’t treat women. The system has gone off the rails. I have had game, I am aware, I have red pill. But I am now ready to start warning these beta men who could destroy themselves. I have never seen such self absorbed cruelty in my life!

  6. Women want lesser men to be afraid to approach, compliment and engage with
    them, but the message is wrapped in generalities to imply all men do these things.

    This heightens the need for guys to learn game so they can understand an IOI and then make their intentions clear either in how they conduct themselves, what they say and what they do in their lives.

    One of the best approaches I’ve started using is the disqualifier: “I’d invite you for drinks tonite but I have to go, so let’s do this tomorrow/whenever”.

    This immediately signals interest and disinterest and displays higher value. It assumes the sale.

    Another approach is to respond directly: “I like you…you seem fun to hang out with…”

    Another is to follow up with “Good connection” after number closing.

    These tactical applications of game demonstrate how a guy can display confidence and clear intentions without the overly needy vibe that triggers the “creep” reflex in girls.

    Boldness is attractive. Neediness is creepy.

  7. The reference experiences of more and more young men will range from mildly pleasant to very unpleasant. Making it more and more difficult for a beta man to learn Game and become more Alpha will shift the 80/20 to 90/10, punishing the betas even more in the process. Women will continue to be their own Betas, whining about how there’s no good men blah blah because they don’t do cause and effect very well.

    Men with Game will continue to be fine, but they will become more scarce.

  8. Anyone who’s has made great strides on the journey of self- improvement will know the devastating truth of Pook’s quote.

    It obviously applies to both genders but is much more pronounced in women. It is the source of Red Pill regret and frustration “Yeah they all love me NOW, now that I don’t need them!”

    Ego is a necessity for the creep accuser. Women aren’t creeps because men are flattered by almost all (if not all) positive female attention. Similarly with non-Western women. In both cases it would be “Ahh, bless em. They’re trying” and not yuck.

  9. Much love.

    “Game is a form of deliberately tricking a woman’s Hypergamous filtering.”
    No. Proper game is a form of optimizing communication to harmonize with hypergamous filtering, to attract pussy through the best delivery of strengths. Deliberate tricks are hollow game, which only work on the dumbest/drunkest of women.

    “All that said, I can easily imagine Beta men, confused about sexual zoning, engaging in exactly the behaviors described here. It is a very dangerous time to be a Blue Pill Beta today. In fact, I’d argue it’s never been more potentially hazardous for guy ignorant of Game and the nature of intersexual dynamics.”

    Agree entirely, was thinking this for a while. The problem is, it’s also dangerous to be an Alpha, because like you say, Alpha/Beta is a mindset. One bad day where the Alpha slips up with bad game and appears Beta, but goes for the honey he usually gets, and bam – now it’s harassment. Or if an Alpha is spinning plates and one falls away, and becomes resentful – now it’s harassment. The FI wants a society of bluepill asexual drones, and alpha bad boys they can fuck and return to prison. A total lockdown of male sexuality, extreme left wing and extreme right wing coming together, anti-porn, anti-prostitution, and anti-age gap. I blame women much less for following their nature, than the Alpha bluepills who handed over the keys. Like that asshat in Tennessee who handed over suffrage because of his mommy’s note in his pocket. This is a purely American phenomenon in its extreme. Someone great once said, “When you’re born in this world, you get a ticket to the freakshow. When you’re born in America, you get a front row seat.” I’m getting out to safer waters for now…

    edit – wrote that comment before I read the rest of your article where you say the exact same thing, nice one haha.

  10. “Doctor friends who won’t treat women.”

    That’s absurd. And creepy on the doctor’s part. Like the doctor can’t even face his shadow self in the eye?

    It’s a normal part of command presence on the part of the doctor to have a chaperone (medical assistant or nurse). There is no such thing as being afraid to treat woman. Unless he is weaker than hell and can’t face what comes around then next corner. If a doctor can’t face what is around the next corner, patient wise, he has no business being a doctor. At all. Wrong profession for him.

    And it doesn’t take much to not be a creepy doctor. I’ve been examining women in their underwear for over twenty five years and it doesn’t take much to be professional. I’ve never been scared and never been once accused of inappropriateness, not even close. WTF? Man, I call bullshit on that. That position is a non-starter.

    “Get married she takes half your stuff.”

    No it doesn’t. Her divorcing your ass takes half your stuff. Getting married and having children allows her to share half your stuff. Your mileage may vary. As always, it helps to have lots of stuff along the way. And not being afraid to share it with a good woman and your kids is part of Alpha and unconditional love. (Yeah, that’s not a misprint in the manosphere…..)

    “But I am now ready to start warning these beta men who could destroy themselves.”

    Good luck with that. Or ditch the Beta Blue Pill men and associate with Red Pill men. Your cognitive dissonance will be infinitely more tolerable. Not a lot of Beta men can make it through triage and not a lot of Blue Pill men want your advice. Because their heads may explode.

  11. Boldness is attractive. Neediness is creepy.

    ” A total lockdown of male sexuality, extreme left wing and extreme right wing coming together, anti-porn, anti-prostitution, and anti-age gap. I blame women much less for following their nature, than the Alpha bluepills who handed over the keys.”

    Poor eddie… No ungood deed…

  12. Creepiness is founded in scarcity. Scarcity leads to oneitisand that desperation manifests itself in creepy behaviour….

    Covert attempts to secure a date instead of overtly stating intentions.

    Seeking closure after a break up is creepy.

    Asking why or demanding a greater explanation.

    Repeated attempts to contact a girl beyond a perfunctory “hey what up?”

  13. Gentlemen, i’m so glad i’m 51 now & not 15. I never really came into my own as a player until ‘Saturn Returns’ at 27, and from then on til now still there was lots of fun to be had with a plethora of willing and available attractive women. I’m not your typical dominant Alpha as such, but my game (not that i realised it was “game” at the time) was teasing the fuck out of girls i fancied (i’m naturally very quick witted), using plenty of kino when i knew the vibe was right, and having a ball. In fact, pretty much as soon as i’m sparring with a chick i know if we’ll fuck or not. It’s all in the looks & body language they give you. It’s just so easy to when you know what to look for. Proper timing & use of bold kino is also essential. Thus, i’ve had lots of success over a long period without being the provider type. Girls just want to have fun. Never forget that. And they talk amongst themselves, so make sure you always fuck them well! It’s your best advertisement for future pussy…
    I don’t think Blue Pill guys can really be saved. When it comes to women, you’ve either got it or you haven’t. Sure, some “game” tricks can be learned, but being naturally funny with good looks and a fit physique goes a long way. When i turned 40 my new girlfriend was a hot 22yo, and she picked me up! The women my age at the party were very snarky about her, about the age difference etc. Now i know it was just Wall Jealousy on their behalf.
    So my best advice is to be playful and a good teaser, but you have to pick your marks, otherwise you may be labelled a “creep” or worse, which must be very disconcerting to those poor chumps it happens to (not withstanding the actual creepy guys who lurk in the shadows)…

  14. The Solitary Silver FoX
    “Girls just want to have fun. Never forget that. And they talk amongst themselves, so make sure you always fuck them well! It’s your best advertisement for future pussy…”
    Gold…
    https://vimeo.com/75116930
    (best advertisement for future pussy…)

  15. “Rollo, women also find men creepy who aren’t interested in those particular women if he ignores them and doesn’t tease them or otherwise be playful and friendly towards them.”

    More likely to be called a jerk. Just not attracted to her and don’t be a jerk about turning her down, you’ll still be a jerk for not seeing how great a catch she is. After all, if a girl likes you, you’re supposed to honored by it.
    A socially awkward guy who blows it can escape the creep label if he gets the message that there won’t be any more dating, but he can put himself back on the creep list if he brings up the lets be friends idea (and actually means it). Girls will bring up let’s just be friends as the rejection without actually clearly stating it’s a rejection. But they’ll expect the guy not to actually take it as being friends with all the social contact and interactions that friends do.

  16. I wonder how much of that Esquire article is tongue-in-cheek or just plain trolling.

    And then at the end: “If a woman wants to fuck you, she will tell you.” Huh? Will she now? Hahahaaaa…

    There are few things in this world as silly as the FI. What women are doing is as silly as putting wings on a regular car and driving it as fast as it will go till it takes off. Then what?

  17. I think the next thing the Fi will target as part of their want for total optimisation of hypergamy will be age gap pairings.

    They will find a way to try and eradicate this affront to their “rights” .

  18. @Rollo: this “Creep” mechanism of the FI, is basically a punishment for betas that fail.
    It is very damning for guys that are newly Red Pill / Game aware but are at the stage of conscious incompetence (those at unconscious incompetence are even more screwed of course). Those that progressed past a certain level of competence and calibration are fairly safe.

    I wonder to which extent this latest “raising the stakes” is a response to manosphere efforts to disseminate RP/ Game knowledge. Raising of the stakes was going to happen regardless under a social order that is primarily of the FI… But the FI is aware of the “manosphere” and that may have sped up. By raising the punishment for failure, it effectively stifles practice and the FI can “lock” some more betas in their place – even those that know RP.

  19. Solitary Silver Fox

    “When it’s comes to women, you’ve either got it or you haven’t”

    Are you aware the manosphere is largely predicated on the hidden fact that this is utter bollocks?

  20. IAS
    “I wonder to which extent this latest “raising the stakes” is a response to manosphere efforts to disseminate RP/ Game knowledge. Raising of the stakes was going to happen regardless under a social order that is primarily of the FI… But the FI is aware of the “manosphere” and that may have sped up. By raising the punishment for failure, it effectively stifles practice and the FI can “lock” some more betas in their place – even those that know RP.”


  21. Ya, being Beta and sexually aggressive is more dangerous than ever.

    Let’s turn this stuff around for once. Who’s fault is this? Women don’t make betas socially retarded. And be clear, this is not about looks, any guy can get familiar and friendly with a woman if he doesn’t act like a jackwad. The real problem is that the beta is transfixed with the value women have in his own mind, and how poorly he sees himself. He cannot get out of his self-loathing, terrified little bubble and brings all that BS to interactions with women. Ya wanna know why most women won’t flirt with a beta-tard? Cuz it’s so meaningful to the beta. She’ll be “stuck” with him. He’ll feel entitled to more without her wanting to give it freely. Whereas with the alpha, she knows she can change her mind and flirt without it being laden with meaning and significance for the alpha. And the alpha guy telegraphs this by just having some fun with it.

    Sure, the beta guy has had a ton of blue pill conditioning, I know. But beta boy is also pre-loaded for it. You see, he wants short cuts. He wants a formula for success to be handed to him with a list of stuff to do that will work. He already knows how women are, like he’s been getting “I’m not attracted” signals his whole life. And he realizes he could do a lot to become more attractive from losing weight to putting on a smile to actually being interesting – but that all is work, and isn’t guaranteed. No, the beta boy feels entitled to pussy and ill-served because he doesn’t get it. So these moments of truth for him with women destroy him, they occupy him and he keeps feeling victimized by it. I don’t feel victimized by the many women who aren’t interested in fucking me, I barely take note of them. I do spend most of my energy on those who do want to fuck me, and this seems to be the biggest shift.

    I ask the betas, why do you want to “win women over”? Why does it matter whether a woman likes you or finds you sexually attractive? This is more than about getting your dick sucked, this about an entire strategy for achieving social value in society. “I did what I was told and it didn’t work out – wahhhhhhh”. I see this among millennials all the time, the desire for a list of “How to” for everything. The idea that you might have to draw on your internal wisdom and just figure things out for yourself, this doesn’t occur to the beta. But it’s what the alpha does. He notices that the beta isn’t getting anywhere by supplicating and then getting angry. Whereas the alpha has his own internal motivations and is secure in figuring things out for himself. Most alphas are actually suspicious of quick fixes and short cuts…whereas betas lap them up like fried ice cream. Game can be seen as a shortcut, although I agree with @Jack above, that game isn’t a “trick”, it’s merely applying socially intelligent strategy with an outcome in mind. Something most people don’t do, they are clueless socially. But many a beta is like, “I was Luke from RSD just pick that woman up off the floor and spin her and they loved it – but I got slapped”, that’s unfair. Lol. I bet they complain when winter comes around every year too. Sigh.

    Women are sowing the seeds of their own destruction. Female led societies existed in human history, but they just failed. They never got past the mud-hut, hunter/gatherer stages. They might be more peaceful (only might) but they cannot succeed. Today’s world was built by men. Push man back, see what happens ladies. Men need to grasp and own their power. Fyi, one of the real problems with men today is that so many are beaten down and have given up – who on earth wants to fuck that?

    In the meantime, guys like me withdraw all provision and don’t play along. I don’t hold doors, I don’t act like a gentleman, I don’t deal with women when I don’t want to or have to. I find I can really keep them at arms length and get what I want out of them for the most part, and only let in the one’s i actually car about. But don’t expect me to change your oil or come over when the heat is broken, he he, that’s all on you honey. I explained it to a woman recently, 40something who I found loathesome, “Ya, you women have decided that acting like a lady and following traditional sexual roles is not for you, and is at best optional, lol. So guess what? The list of things I’m supposed to do to serve women and society as a “gentleman” are off the table too. The game had two sides, and you don’t get to just stop pulling your weight in the social contract and expect men to carry on. I don’t treat women special at all. In fact, if I was on the Titanic, I’d push a woman out of the way to take her seat now. Women and children first only made sense when gentlemen were respected. So don’t expect respect from me, don’t expect me to defend you if some guy is raping you. Don’t expect me to even care about all your whining. That’s the thing that’s funniest to me. Women want to be independent and treated just like men – okay, great, here you are. You get nothing. And then you want to get all Victorian about sexual behavior and #Metoo and shit, like it’s hysterical. I’m not concerned with what happens to women anymore, I’m not on this earth to protect women so it doesn’t matter to me.” Shock, pure shock followed. I ended the convo shortly after as she’s a cunt. But you see, that’s the world women asked for and I’m only too happy to deliver it. Stupid girls, in the long run they are only fucking themselves. Remember, we only need women for two things, sex and child-rearing, but women need men for just about everything.

    Ya wanna see how “self-reliant” women are without men? Take a group of them for a walk in the woods at night. Lol. See how they will cluster around you and be terrified of every noise. Tell them ahead of time that bears do frequent the area, lmfao. Men need to call women’s bluff, and many of us are doing so in our personal lives.

    Many men are too scared to do so though, so thirsty for pussy so they’ll do anything to please women even after being shit on. Don’t expect me to feel sorry for such beta pussies – they invite the abuse. This clip from Survivor US men v women sums up what idiots male betas can truly be.

    Remember, the current institutional setup in society emerges from a govt that is unsustainable, due to a financial setup that is a mirage. 70 trillion in debt worldwide, and growing, lol. We can’t afford this many health admins and marketing chicks and counselors and social justice types running around. Or to spend astronomical sums of money on education and health care. The financial reset will eliminate all of this slack. Production of real goods and actual wealth creation will become what matters again. And women mostly suck at that, so they will come crawling back to men. But even then, betas will always be betas…And women will fuck them more in such circumstances, but women will still sneak off at night for the pounding from the alpha dog they love getting fucked by.

    Sucks to be beta, this just in…

  22. @Waterboy – Turning down women for sex is dangerous. I’ve had a couple get physical with me and several get downright hysterical. I remember turning down a young hottie I worked with at one point, I never stick my dick in crazy and she looked like she might become a clinger so I bailed at the last moment. She made her move and started kissing me and I pushed her back. Nothing had been overt, but I’d just shown her to her sweet room in Philippe Stark designed hotel in NYC – she’d never been to NYC before, let alone hung out at the same hotel Mick Jagger fancies when he’s in town. I’m alone in her room trying to extricate. Guess I’m like 36 and she’s 24. She starts screaming and crying and begging. If men behaved the way women do when they get rejected, we’d have a lot more complaints about sexual harassment. Talk about entitled, it doesn’t occur to women that they need to handle rejection well. Nobody has ever told them how…Lol. Can’t take women too seriously, no matter how bad this shit gets guys. Seriously. They are just girls.

  23. Weak comments.
    In case y’all have forgotten, civilization is ran by us morlocks for the Eloi until it’s feeding time. How many minions do you think the State has at its disposal to impose this mythical separation of attractive versus unattractive? 165 million agents? Think again. The attention to petty legalities in this country never ceases to amaze me. ‘Says you and what army’ is how the rest of the world responds to a shit test of this magnitude

  24. Scribblerg
    tl;dr

    Women don’t make betas socially retarded.

    Single mothers do.
    You can NASMALT all you want. Babymommas, frivorcees, etc. do exactly that.

  25. Pook’s advice is well taken, but I have seen women similarly advised to evaluate men through this lens as well, so maybe it’s just a good general judge of character regardless of gender. Browbeating a clerk, receptionist or waitstaff is a red flag.

    A similar quesrion is how does someone treat workplace underlings? Are they sweet-talking you while yelling through their new iPhone at some poor drone still stuck at the office? Some female execs have treated me royally on a project basis but I felt kind of sorry for their regular staff.

    I actually think you learn a lot by seeing how a woman treats people who HAVE done something for her. Is she sincerely appreciative and reciprocal? Phony-appreciative? Dismissive or even resentful?

  26. “Single mothers do.
    You can NASMALT all you want. Babymommas, frivorcees, etc. do exactly that.“

    So do dads-acting-like-moms who try to be best friends to their kids, don’t sharpen them up, preach the SNAG (sensitive new age guy) gospel.

    I see them. Like dead people.

    You won’t have to wait long to see the results of the antidotes being administered to cure masculine toxicity. Deti once reported how in 80’s college he was told that any unwanted approach to a woman could be deemed assault and an expulsion offense. That’s being taught in high schools now and for years now at every freshman initiation course at college. For the benefit of those men who still go to college.

    So Mz. Esquire sez Women will tell you if they want to fuck you? Do tell. A few bold ones may but most never will. (Would have been nice to experience when I was collegiate). See Dr. Warren Farrell’s famous experiment where he forced women to approach and open men they were attracted to. They couldn’t do it. They got palpitations, they got sick, they got headaches. That hasn’t changed.

  27. Speaking of appreciative, this is a good weekend to thank Rollo and participants for TRM. Last year at this time I had no inkling, no clue, just some vague ideas on 62 years of dealing with women (and with myself). Just a couple of semesters at Rollo U has already done wonders for mind and body.

    And now back to my regularly scheduled irrelevant comments …

  28. I agree with Blax — Time Machine never did it for me. But there IS an early-60s flick with a compelling look at creepy. Ever see Seconds?

    Aging, balding suburban dead bedroom beta-bux exec makes something of a deal with the devil and is remade into Rock Hudson, complete with glamorous painting career and California beach house. But even so he can’t shake the betatude, and things do not go well. Hudson is remarkably needy to the point of creepy. Always been my favorite but now I have a little more idea why

  29. Been said that women aren’t referred to as creeps, and I agree. Men habitually use the term weird. But men will get a creep vibe when they feel it from other men. Such as your common gender loathing journalist.
    I’ve never made any connection of the wolf in Lil Red Riding Hood to be a symbol of male id/sexual desire for women. But this guy does.

    Regarding Survivor clip, everybody knows about it, but because of topic it did stand out a little more how her voice changed when she asked if they could go sit next to their fire.
    I did like watching Survivor to see how things play out, but less and less because of how more and more fem things permeate the show. Only certain parts of the show are merit based, but more and more parts of the show that are similar to last placed teams in the league voting out the first place teams and then make claims of greatness are becoming what it’s about. The season that had Brad Culpepper was really full of clips to use for illustrative purposes. Delusional woman uses veiled insults about ex football player being influenced by testosterone, tiny gay man makes claims of being bullied by ex football player over an idol, fat woman gets heaps of praise for being so courageous because whatever challenge it was they had to do, it’s over an done with but she’s still way in the back trying to take what amounts to a few steps across a plank.
    Wondering if the ratings will ever start to drop because of it

  30. Ferd Flange
    You won’t have to wait long to see the results of the antidotes being administered to cure masculine toxicity.

    Already have seen it and discussed it here & elsewhere. See first ocomment of mine in the thread.

  31. Water Cannon Boy
    Been said that women aren’t referred to as creeps, and I agree. Men habitually use the term weird.

    Once upon a time I knew via my social circle a woman who had powerful crushes. When she wanted a man she’d start with the usual “coincidence meeting”, then sometimes moved up to the “can you help me [some easy thing]” [*] but in a couple of cases that I recall it got more intense. “Break into his apartment through the bathroom window, take off clothes and get in bed to wait for him to get home” level intense. Creepy, weird or Letter to Penthouse? You decide.

    [*] Inviting the situational Alpha to help with furniture or a machine that leads to sexytime because that’s what she really wanted happens. We all know that. Stories about those events arguably get into Beta Orbiters heads and lead them to self delude.

  32. “Pook once had a great quote back on the SoSuave Forum. He said,

    How do I judge a woman’s character? I see how she treats people who can do nothing for her.
    This test has never failed me.”

    “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” ~ Mahatma Ghandi

    Ironically, Ghandi was speaking of women, the underclass. Men are now underclass, defective likewise expected to sustain heavy cultural lifting, Double bind hell.

    Women are not to be trusted with the reins of power.

  33. lol @ “help”…plausible deniability…a woman at a hike was talking about some work she needed done at home…I mentioned that I had a lot of work to do because Mrs. Gamer and I were throwing a party the next day.

    Girls are always pawing at me…waitresses at my chest…Mrs. Gamer at my dick…a married woman in my Sunday School grabbed my knee this a.m. A woman at the party wanted a warm goodbye hug. Women tend to want to shake hands with me. Reference experiences. Par for the course and No Big Deal. The knee grab did wake me up, lol.

  34. This is more than about getting your dick sucked, this about an entire strategy for achieving social value in society. “I did what I was told and it didn’t work out – wahhhhhhh”. ……………………………….I bet they complain when winter comes around every year too. Sigh.

    @scribbler, spot on.

  35. @Roused – A lot of talk about female agency here, what about male agency? Where are we culpable? Look again at that Survivor clip up the thread – complete duplicity by women, out in the open. Their inability to do anything but serve themselves in the moment and use men as needed. What will it take for men to wake up? In the face of it, they still just fold up.

    I do think the social conditioning really grinds on men and reduces our self-esteem. Real freedom comes once you stop being miserly with yourself, first and foremost. Society wants to put the bit in our mouths, but we can just as readily shake it off. Each man as an individual has to stand up for something himself, alone, before we can really work together.

    Just remember how much power men have. Think about what would be possible in a shit storm if a bunch of trad-con men banded together. That’s where I say folks should put their energy. Me? I’m setting up a refuge deep in the woods, way off the beaten path. My respite from almost any storm. I think I’ll need it. In the meantime, I’ll stack as much wealth as I can, play as much music as i can and fuck as many hotties as I can. That’s as good as I’ve got, lol. I’m fine with living in a society in decline. I’m reading a really interesting book on the history of the intellectual legacy of Plate and Aristotle, among others, and the tensions between them. In part, it gives a great account of Rome’s decline from yet another POV, and once again i was struck by how long it took for Rome to end. Her wise fathers saw Rome’s demise centuries ahead of time.

    An empire can writhe in agony for a long time apparently. Perhaps we will too, but still, it’s a shit sandwich. My point is, what are you going to do with that info? Being angry or downtrodden or depressed or hopeless is self-destructive. One must be a bit Stoic, and understand that “the suck” is part of the human condition. As they say in certain military environs, one must “embrace the suck”. and it’s true. Lean into that shit. Don’t flinch, really deal with yourself and the world you are in presently. You’ll see far more opportunity and interesting shit if you just chill and realize this is just the ride too. Ya, bitches have run amok, shit, somethings almost always goin amok in human history. This too shall pass.

    For me, the Red Pill is about becoming self-oriented and self-seeking in a socially intelligent way. Embracing my true nature, not just my libido, rather, also my desire to play in the world in bigger ways. To really step up to my power out in the world. And when I actually did this, I saw all the emotional energy I was expending on Red Pill stuff and other political aspects had little payback. It justified cynicism and giving up, but now I’m different. So I had to really recalibrate how I saw all this stuff in my life and work. I’m just a grain of sand on the beach, ya know? Great forces swirl me this way and that, I’m just gonna try and make the most of the ride while enjoying it too.

  36. Scribblerg
    Think about what would be possible in a shit storm if a bunch of trad-con men banded together.

    LOL!

    There’d be a huge competition to see who could White Knight the hardest for the sluttiest thot combined with pre-emptive surrender to whatever.

    Trad-cons are a big part of the problem, because as soon as any feminist screeches “FOR the WOMEN!” tradcons roll on their backs and pee themselves like the overage puppies they are.

    Trad-cons…For The Fail.

  37. Scribbs

    This is the clip that holds the key…

    “when the boys said they didn’t want us by their fire anymore, we just.. had to figure out for ourselves what we were gonna do”

    Once guys push back, on women in their own sphere, change will come. House by house, block by block.

    PS – Would Bang.

  38. scribblerg

    Are you an ex-beta cringing at your former behaviour or natural
    who can’t empathise?

    I’m not even sure AF/BB is more contemptuous than your post?

    You’re right that it’s not women’s fault they aren’t attracted to betas but to say they have no hand in creating them would be to ignore feminism and all its consequences.

    Having been on both sides of the fence I can say alphas have by far the easier life. The alpha in my opinion lacks “qualities” the beta tends to have in abundance (to his great detriment of course).

    It takes no guts to offend someone when you only care about your own opinion.

    It takes no bravery to confront someone when you apply no value to them.

    It takes no courage to talk to girls when you attach no importance to the outcome.

    The big societal lie is that it’s the harder option. It’s not.

  39. @Tom – I’m a former natural of sorts, but very blue pilled in my own way until my awakening 5 years ago.

    @Anon – You are the guy saying single moms breed beta males – when in fact beta males have always existed. As for your aspersions at tradcons, you missed the point in your eagerness to appear intelligent. The power of men who embrace traditional values banding together in large numbers would be something to contend with.

    I understand, your peripatetic analysis says this is impossible. I’m trying to imagine how I could give a shit less what the likes of you think. Mentally masturbating is no way to spend your live, Anon.

  40. Creepy is the single mother you met and screwed that night and then she texts you the morning after along the lines of:
    are you at work? call me now. i want to hear your voice. i miss you. babe when are you coming back?

    You know you dont want that woman in your life except for the brief hours you pass through town and share a drink (or not) and just get a good pov of her ass and pussy lips engulfing your you-know-what. The moment you realise that she is going in for, “I want a piece of your life”, you feel creeped out. You dont know her baby, you dont know the father, you dont ever want to know. You want her to just know this ( to just get it) and leave you out of all that shit and just bring her pussy to the next meeting.

  41. Sentient,

    Good time for this Camille Paglia quote:

    If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts

    The other day I saw this self-loathing mangina I think on MSNBC talk about how horrible the world is because men ran it, and women should be in the all the positions of power. LOL.

    It boggles my mind how utterly oblivious and ignorant basically all women and alot of men are to the fact that literally EVERYTHING that makes modern civilization possible was invented by, built by, maintained by, replaced by MEN. The plumbing and sewer lines that carry water to your home and waster away were invented and installed by MEN. The generators that produce electricity were invented and built by MEN. The transmission poles and electric lines, installed by MEN which allow women to charge their little handheld drug smartphones. The INTERSTATE system. Designed and built by MEN. I’ll guarantee you that 99.9% of the people working on restoring electricity in Puerto Rico are MEN. It is amazing all the complete morons who just take all these things for granted as if magical aliens made all this possible. It is only when this stuff disappears, that women start to temporarily realize they need men like that chick in the Survivor video. Of course they quickly forget as well

  42. @blaximus – In all respects we men are treated like the unseen cogs that keep civilization going. It was rather fitting that the FI would move towards criminalizing all men, after all it’s the final move it can make. And yes, as weak sheep the woo to me squad comes out. Weak. I believe a critical FB post can get you beheaded and left hung from the legs under a highway overpass in most parts of Mexico. Weakness begets more weakness.

  43. This is a lot of assumptions, some reasonable, forming a framework for a worldview that is completely pseudoscientific and unsound. Evolutionary Psychology for one is a field, which at this time, is not on very solid ground. The best results we can get involve comparative analysis with our living primate relatives, cross cultural ethnographic studies, and then comparing this to behavioural genetics, neuroscience, and psychology. So though evolutionary thinking on the human condition can be quite interesting, and is full of open questions, questions which require a methodological revolution and a lot of hard work within the scientific community to resolve, if we ever can… It is plausible we will not reach anything more than “just so” stories that make sense, and have a lot of comparative evidence that fits the model, but really could be explained by many models of equal scientific validity.

    Just as Paleontologists infer the existence and purpose of feathered dinosaurs, and from very loose evidence, the behavior of various dinosaurs, or Paleoanthropologists, putting together, as much as is possible, the story of human evolution, we really don’t know a lot about the evolution of human sexuality, or the general science of sexuality to take it and apply it “game”. What we have here in the PUA/Men’s rights community, are armchair evolutionary “just so” stories applied over folk psychology. Or in other words, pseudoscientific, borderline cultish, subculture which attempts to explain it’s wide array of techniques to fuck chicks and get confidence through evolutionary theory, cognitive psychology, primatology and ethology, and anthropology.

    When you have confidence you meet more people, when you meet more people you fuck more people. Everyone has their own path down learning “game” or whatever, but really we know very little about cognition, human dynamics, human universals, cross cultural norms, human sexual behavior, and, well, human behaviour and cognition, at all. So really your claims here amount not to rationality but the opposite of it, cherry picking, selective data, and taking a flimsy foundation, and arguing very strong propositions from them, which is very unsound. It’s the problem with the entire alt-right and borderline viewpoints that intersect to make up the new far right at it’s hollow core. To those uneducated in skeptical thinking, it seems reasonable, some facts, lots of open questions debated and far from solved by the scientific community presented as facts, anecdotal “evidence”, opinion, and falsehoods, misapplication research, misrepresentation of scientific methodology, and opinions and false or unfounded beliefs slapped together in the messy patchwork. Not any different than creationism. Also, a vast misunderstanding of feminism, which in its academic form is as full of as much BS as evolutionary psychology (for example stating that Newton’s principia is a rape manual is a claim made by an academic feminist). This is just a problem with post-modernist/continental philosophical thinking. It does not discredit all the claims made by feminists. For example patriarchal societies are the most common form of societies, and it is true that to some degree or another women are deprived of civil liberties, and exposed to spousal abuse, rape, sexual assault, human trafficking or “war booty”, forced prostitution, and harassment, things which men face much less. Things which are at the hands of men. Our society has grown less patriarchal since the suffragist movement through second wave feminism onto the current third wave. It has also grown more equal for all people,in general. But sexual assault, rape, discriminatory hiring practices, spousal violence, are all current problems which are not fully shaken off, we live in a less patriarchal society than we did 150 years ago, or that some country’s like Saudi Arabia, or Uganda, generally very religious society’s, still exhibit. But ultimately men have it shitty in other ways, but good feminist arguments account for male suffering too. Still, overall, men have it better than women, and men don’t really have much to complain about compared to women.

  44. @”Morpheus” (rolls eyes) Nobody denies that.. in fact that is exactly what feminism is challenging. Men have done the things you listed (including countless genocides, wars, slavery, forced prostitution, spreading religious ideology, kingdoms, or empires, which were built on some form of horrible ideology, etc), and have actively kept women out of academia and the social elite. It is not because women cannot do great science and engineering, manufacturing, and inventions, they can, recent history shows plenty of cases. Women would easily be able to maintain society without the help of men, sexual dimorphism in our species is negligible, and cognitive differences minor, with women overall being less violent. Which is a good thing. So feminism simply put is the quest for equality It is not because women are inferior that they appear much less throughout the history books, but because societies all across the globe are patriarchal, it is a human universal. That doesn’t make it good. That’s the naturalistic fallacy.

  45. @EhIntellect Men are not the underdog in society as a whole. Women still face hurdles they must surpass before they are treated equal to men in society. That said women as a whole class aren’t by any means on the lowest rung of our society. But that is due to a long struggle over the past century. Oppression works in complex ways, and unless discussing our own oppression, we are talking statistical averages. Statistically patriarchal society holds women back, we still live in a patriarchal society, and patriarchy is a human universal. Women statistically have it worse than men. But by far transpeople have it worse than women. By far transwomen of color have it worse than white transmen. White men with mental illness or other forms of disability are more oppressed than white men who aren’t effected with disability. In cases of severe disability, whether male or female, you are lower on the ladder of society. Also economic position effects men too, though the wage gap and hiring biases, plus social norms inhibiting young women’s achievement in STEM (though this is changing). You’re being a bitch. Stop complaining and actually use your brain.

  46. The Survivor clips are priceless. Remind me of why I have no tolerance for TV anymore.

    And of course there’s experiencing this in real life. Fun, the women who just can’t do it themselves and only need the men in their life for the purpose of doing it for them…but yeah equal rights and all that shit, right?!

    The supplicating white knights are our biggest challenge boys…

  47. Meanwhile, back Down Under…

    abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/woman-fined-after-falsely-accusing-taxi-driver-of-sexual-assault/9197732

  48. Just recently broke up from a brief but intense relationship with a narcissistic Serbian hottie, ex-model back in the day. Anyways, i hadn’t seen her for a few weeks since she threw me out after a fight that could have gotten physical, (She had previous form, so i took the ‘discretion is the best part of valour’ philosophy & bailed.) until we were both at the same music festival last weekend. She was there as a punter & i was paid to be there playing a set of my own electronic music. It felt good to have more status than her, for whatever it is worth, ’cause as much as i hate to admit it, i was a bit cut up over it all. Mainly the disrespect she showed me was what pissed me off most, but it is also hard to let go of awesome seX. I know you gentlemen will concur. Funny thing is, i was getting a little tired of the porn-star fucking. At 51 it was wearing me out a bit. But i digress.
    We bought an $800 glamping tent together almost straight off the bat (a good investment & one i’ll make again), and this festival was one of the reasons. But she kept the tent (it was in her house & she kicked up a tanty and threw me out when i tried to take it) & paid me out before the festival, so all good. Funny thing is, after we finally had our “divorce” talk on the Sunday, i offered to help her pack the tent up. (Zero fucks given attitude, though i did give a fuck, but was not going to sulk & show her that.) But she said it was ok, she had asked someone to come help her. Fine says i. Then this beta simp wearing braces with shorts like a clown turns up & i almost laugh. Now in the brief time we were together she often had orbiters around giving her a hand (i would travel to the city to do my thing & stay with her, so didn’t have any tools, vehicle (would usually catch the train for long journey) or what not), and they would show up all gooey eyed hoping their servitude might get them a sniff of pussy, then clock me, and i could see the confusion and anguish in their eyes & body language. I did feel for the suckers, and it played out a few times with 3 different guys who were more than eager to do her a favour, but then she would fuck my brains out after they left. I really felt like giving the youngest of them the TRM link, but thought better of it. I have been that guy at times back in the day, but now when you see it play out in front of you (she is a very seXy woman used to getting her way with men) as is often discussed here, it’s quite surreal.
    Oh, and of course clown boy didn’t know where to begin, so i took control and showed them both how such a simple thing was done. Then i grabbed her & kissed her in front of him, she loved it and bit my lip as she always had, and i remarked that i’d hit her up for a booty call next time i was in town, to which she replied, “Do…” Then i swaggered off, over my petty little bitch hurt…

  49. @smh29

    Lawl.

    Why don’t you try that schtick elsewhere? Most of us, having grown up with anything but oppressed women, and having raised children and observed how unoppressed (and 180 degrees opposite) girls and young women are currently, don’t buy your crap.

    Every issue women face has to do with wanting to have children, because they want them more, are the ones who get pregnant, and are the ones who *want* to care more when the kids are young. Those desires, and the results that flow from them (job choices, wage “gap”, “second shift”, blah blah) directly flow from women’s preferences and nothing else. If anyone is to blame for them at all, it’s women themselves.

    Oh, and in a world where women are earning 60% of undergrad degrees and outearning men in their 20s (before the choices women make in the above paragraph start to kick in), I will play the world’s smallest violin for the fact that there are more geeky Asian dudes in STEM than there are women. Cry me a river.

  50. @Tom —

    I’m not even sure AF/BB is more contemptuous than your post?

    Lol, calm down. You have to learn how to read scrib. That’s just how he is, lol. Take the good stuff from his posts and ignore the contempt, at least that’s my approach.

  51. Women statistically have it worse than men.

    You’re so right. Women die younger than men. Women commit suicide more often than men. Men earn more undergrad degrees than women. Women are more often incel than men.

    Oh, wait…

  52. @smh29

    “Statistically patriarchal society holds women back”

    Back from what? A bill of goods that feminism fails to deliver? Astronomically high antidepression, amxirty rates?

    Mine isn’t a fight against women or anyone. It’s a fight for men, boys against lies about their worth and options. It is now unwise OTJ to say men are better at anything, men are to man up and shut up and reject what their hearts tell them is true.

    Oh, allowing men to be unapologetic men isn’t ISIS style Sharia either. Stop exaggerating and oversimplifying.

    I’m not implying you’re unread. I’m saying there’s more going on here.

    Oh and LOL. The old wage gap saw. C’mon man!

  53. Ehintellect

    Mine isn’t a fight against women or anyone. It’s a fight for men, boys against lies about their worth and options.

    Concur.

    Solitary Silver Fox

    Then i swaggered off, over my petty little bitch hurt…

    Nice!!!! [PS – I hear you on the PS sex thing… at 50. Sometimes less is more… lol]

    Morpheus

    women should be in the all the positions of power.

    I refer to this strawman as the “Eeeeek!!! Spider!!! Conundrum” ™

  54. Slightly OT as I’m sure Prince Harry has not worn the creep label, but in trying to check the weather reports I was deluged with news that he is engaged to a woman named Meghan Markle, who turns out to be a famous actress among other things.

    This is all strongly confirmatory of the comments here that loads of cash, world wide fame and influence, coupled with passably good looks is not sufficient to save a blue pill man from his natural fate; if he never learns the lessons offered at TRM.

    A Prince of England is to marry a 36 year old divorcee (he is 33), actress, and UN Ambassador for women; who may well use him like a rented mule in her feminist causes.

    http://meghanmarklereview.com/2017/05/05/flashback-friday-meghans-2015-un-women-speech/

    “I am proud to be a woman and a feminist,…”

    “And when it comes to women’s political participation and leadership the percentage of female parliamentarians globally has only increased by 11% since 1995. 11 percent in 20 years? Come on. This has to change. Women make up more than half of the world’s population and potential, so it is neither just nor practical for their voices, for our voices, to go unheard at the highest levels of decision-making.”

    “To have leaders such as President Kagame of Rwanda continue to be a role model of a country which has a parliamentary system comprised of 64% female leaders. I mean, it’s the highest of any government in the world and it’s unbelievable. We need more men like that,…”

    Etc.

  55. Lost Patrol

    A Prince of England is to marry a 36 year old divorcee (he is 33), actress, and UN Ambassador for women; who may well use him like a rented mule in her feminist causes.

    Harry is alpha compared to… William. Otherwise he presents as a lost boy with daddy and mommy issues… oh yeah and that whole primogeniture thingy.

  56. She’s post-wall, already divorced … Harry just doesn’t seem to be leveraging his princely advantages here

  57. This Prince Harry shit is all over the damn news this morning I only want to know what the traffic is like.

  58. Here’s an example of what men are facing in #metoo world. A brief and supposedly objective news report just mentioned that Roy Moore faces allegations of “sexual assault and pedophilia.” This makes it sound like he’s overpowering women in dark alleys and trading sex films of 2-year-olds. He gets smeared above and beyond the actual allegations, true or not.

    The growing elasticity of terms from “unwanted advances” and “harassment” on up to “rape” casts a wide net

  59. Have been waiting for someone to comment on the prince harry marriage to Meghan markle thing!

    He’s 33 a fucking prince! And although a ginger his SMV is astronomical. Compared to his brother he is comparatively Alpha, I’ve read that during his military career as an apache helicopter pilot he did actually see genuine active service and was known for standing up agains bullying in the services.

    Having seen him in interviews etc I’d say he’s a natural that hasn’t reached his potential due to his blue pill conditioning, so he has slipped into white night territory unfortunately.

    His bride is 36, divorced and although still attractive she is obviously sub optimal fertility wise and probably only a few years from hitting her wall and losing the remaining petals of her femininity!

    If princes are buying into the FI narrative what hope do regular men have? What message does this send?

    Like I posted earlier I believe the next target of FI optimised Hypergamy will be age inappropriate ( younger girl, older man) pairings that will be painted as abusive , cougars with younger men will be of course be celebrated as “empowering” .
    After that they will go for the foreign bride dynamic under the guise of “exploitative human trafficking “.

    The goal is complete optimisation of female Hypergamy and its social acceptance, anything less will be labelled as male insecurity and controlling behaviour.

    Criminalising Betas is just the start, calibration has never been a more important part of game as the margin for error is smaller than ever!

    Women really have overplayed their hand and I don’t see it ending well!

    Me at my age I see women as for entertainment purposes only but I feel for younger men that would like to have a family as they are statistically headed for a world of pain!

  60. A brief and supposedly objective news report just mentioned that Roy Moore faces allegations of “sexual assault and pedophilia.” This makes it sound like he’s overpowering women in dark alleys and trading sex films of 2-year-olds. He gets smeared above and beyond the actual allegations, true or not.

    OBIT —

    Well, I thought one of the accusers said that he forced her head down into his lap in the car, but relented when she resisted. That’s sexual assault, if it happened. Pedophilia per se isn’t a crime, it’s the acts with the underaged that are crimes, but a lot of people think a 31 yo man and a 14 yo girl is really wrong, even if it isn’t technically pedophilia.

    There’s really no need to defend Moore. He’s a pathetic beta schlub.

    Like I posted earlier I believe the next target of FI optimised Hypergamy will be age inappropriate ( younger girl, older man) pairings that will be painted as abusive , cougars with younger men will be of course be celebrated as “empowering” .

    @PdP —

    Been going on for years already, at least in the US. I don’t have any issue with it really. Why should we? Betas are going to beta, they aren’t really men anyway.

    Women are more or less correct in dividing human males into two sub-genders: men (alphas) and non-alpha human males (everyone else). The former are breed-worthy, and the latter are not. If you don’t like the category women have identified you as (and there is no use being angry about that, it’s just biology, and them’s the breaks), change yourself so they re-identify you as being a man … or don’t, if you don’t want to. Frankly those of us who are men already really ought not care much about these non-men males, as long as they don’t revolt, and that’s where tech and porn and hookers and so on come in. I really don’t care much about what Harry is doing or what impact it has on other non-men males — why would I?

  61. If I were a prince I would never take any other man’s seconds. Yeah. And especially for a wife! Wow. But his mother was known for Merc600 rear seat romps with a North African boy. I dont think Europe’s royalty is anything close to what it used to be.

    Sad

  62. Playdontpay

    Harry is beta. Service to a Crown that doesn’t rule is the definition of beta servitude… Charles, William waiting in line behind their Mom… lol Apron strings in Buckingham? No doubt.

    I don’t know when the last Alpha Lion of Albion was on the Throne… George V, maybe, maybe…

    Cult of Diana… Who my Daddy? etc. etc. etc. He is as much a prince as a GS Managing Director… and as alpha.

  63. Let’s have some fun with SMHcunt.

    @SMHcunt – Provide examples of matriarchal societies in history and how they performed so much better than those that are patriarchal. Oh wait – that analysis has been done already, retard. In fact, the entire faux history of female power, including complete mythologies about pre-history where matriarchies were common has been completely debunked. Gloria Steinem used to rail on about such nonsense. Here’s a great book review by a Leftist utterly debunking all that horseshit. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/e/eller-myth.html

    Or you could try this academic paper, The Myth of Matriarchy http://radicalanthropologygroup.org/sites/default/files/pdf/class_text_052.pdf

    Sadly, if you study this critically versus reading gender-studies freakshow publications, you’ll be forced to admit that matriarchal societies didn’t even really exist in the way most people think. But hey, you are probably a Progressive and believe a ton of stuff that is absolute nonsense, based on zero actual facts.

    But still, I have an offer for women. Let’s say we make a fair deal, which looks like this:
    1. Women can only use technology they’ve invented.
    2. Men do nothing to protect women from anything, ever. All security/LE for women is done by women for women.
    3. Men get paternal certainty but also real choice just like a woman in pregnancy. Meaning we can elect to support a child who is our’s or not during the period in which an abortion is legal. Only if we opt in are we responsible for the child, and for that we get joint custody and 50% legal custody of the child, with no exceptions.
    4. Men can leave the society and join a patriarchal alternative any time they choose.

    Then women can try and lead a society, and build something worth participating in. Lmfao. What is it about women that makes you so certain they are better at building societies and things? Some feminist propaganda you read online somewhere?

    You might also go look at real world examples of female “equality”. The Israeli military is a great real world example. Being good socialists/marxists, the Israelis began their military with gender equality back in 1948, but mixed units barely lasted a few firefights. It became clear women mostly got too scared and simply were useless once the fight started. And then the men felt like they had to protect the women in ways they wouldn’t with men (mostly cuz more men were aggressive and not cowering behind cover crying, like the women were). But just like good leftists, they didn’t want to face this truth, so they kept up with mixed military.

    But in combat units today in the Israeli army? Women are assigned, sure, and do you know what their nickname is? They are called “mattresses” cuz they forward deploy with units in hot zones, where the male soldiers cannot socialize and find sex. So these women are expected to sleep with the soldiers doing the actual fighting, lol. True “gender equality” at work. Seems quite fair to me, actually. Gives betas something to fight for…

    You want to know what’s dumbest about you, SMH? Women already have a gynocracy going, a femcentric social order where they get to take all of the gains of being a woman, while denying all traditional gains to men. Most beta males will dutifully serve women nonstop. And alpha dogs are glad to provide squirting orgasms (in exchange for taking a load down the throat, only seems fair) – seems a great deal for today’s women? Why do you want to knock it down – men pay a huge social cost to deal with women in today’s society. The entire society is tilted in your favor – why would you disrupt that?

    What, did you somehow make up a fantasy in your head in which women are actually good at building shit and keeping themselves secure? Are you really so ignorant that you don’t know what actually goes on in the world? Do you think women suck at building shit just cuz men won’t let them do so? Are you really that filled with propaganda that you believe idiotic shit like that?

  64. Jesus, I don’t miss it ’round here, I’ll be gone shortly. Now we’ve got @NovaBSer weighing in with incorrect information:

    1. Pedophilia is about having sexual relations with a prepubescent child. It’s a medical term, and is pathological.

    2. Ephebophilia is having sexually mature teens as the primary object of your desires. It’s not considered pathological and is not considered pedophilia under the law or by any medical authority. It’s considered more like an impulse control problem, against a social more that we have. It’s entirely different from pedophilia.

    Accusing Moore of pedophilia is nonsense and slanderous. And it’s also not at all clear he’s guilty. The accusations have varying veracity and severity, but in no cases did he complete a sexual act or rape any of them. What’s really troubling about that is that is not how serial sexual predators behave. They complete the act, which is another aspect of this that draws professional questions by actual investigators of sexual assault. And of course, being 38 to 20 years old and coming out so late in a race, one has to question them based simply on the politics.

    Put it this way – nobody is going to court based on this info. Not civil, and of course not criminal as the statute of limitations ran out decades ago, but also because most of the evidence simply is too questionable. A number of the facts cited don’t hold up, such as where that Gloria Alred client claimed the assault happened – she made that part up for sure. The location doesn’t exist in real life the way she described it. Ditto with the 14yo girl, some of her ‘facts’, like where Moore picked her up for the rendezvous were complete fiction. So there is no reason to take all this as fact, none at all.

    Now let’s see if you can get this. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do some of what he was accused of. I actually tend to think he was hitting on teen girls, but I cannot know that. And neither can anyone else besides Moore and the various accusers. But hey, you are so sure – yet you don’t even know the definition of the word pedophilia. Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up, thanks.

  65. “Men are not the underdog in society as a whole. Women still face hurdles they must surpass before they are treated equal to men in society.”

    Apex fallacy…..

  66. Sentient — is this a quiz like Sesame Street’s “One of these things is not like the others”?

    Scribblerg — Thanks for greatly expanding on my objection to “pedophilia” and by extension other terms metoo women and the compliant media are throwing around. I’m not trying to “defend” Moore, only point out how other men might become vulnerable to this kind of smear.

    Nove — I’m not so sure that age-gap relationships would be a target. Don’t women often gain a motherlode of hypergamou$ benefits in these pairings — when the older guy is affluent and high status?

  67. “a motherlode of hypergamou$ benefits in these pairings — when the older guy is affluent and high status?”

    Just remember to get it in writing ladies!!!

  68. Scribblerg
    @Anon – You are the guy saying single moms breed beta males – when in fact beta males have always existed.

    The second fact does not negate the first.

    As for your aspersions at tradcons, you missed the point in your eagerness to appear intelligent.

    My observations regarding tradcons are accurate and based upon personal interaction with them in real life, interaction with them online, and obsevation of their actions vs. words. Your projection is boring.

    The power of men who embrace traditional values banding together in large numbers would be something to contend with.

    The Amish and Mennonites are closer to real traditional conservatism than you can likely understand. Meanwhile in the larger culture it is “traditional “and “conservative” for daughters to ride the cock carousel until 27 – 30 then marry some churchgoing beta. I have seen this in my social circle.

    I understand, your peripatetic analysis says this is impossible.

    You understand nothing, including the definition of a word that you misused.

    I’m trying to imagine how I could give a shit less what the likes of you think.

    SInce you do not have much imagination that must be very trying.

    Mentally masturbating is no way to spend your live, Anon.

    Project much?

  69. Apparently prince harry got down on one knee to propose to his post wall divorcee bride, whilst they were roasting a chicken.

    I think she’s probably been spit roasted before.

  70. @smh29

    Dearie, as feminist robots go you are not very good. Perhaps you should consider trolling for flames in a different way, or trolling on other sites. All you will get here is laughed at / snarled at.

  71. Spit roasted… No! I mean a former “Deal or No Deal” model…??? I’m sure she read some Ophelia in her audition.

    But hey the other girls are so excited for her!

  72. “I wonder what the queen is thinking.”

    There are now three living generations ahead of Harry. Even as backup he doesn’t really count for much at this point. Even if Meghan manages to squeeze out a quasi-noble rugrat or two they won’t be princes.

    Still, standards are obviously slipping.

  73. Scribblerg
    Jesus, I don’t miss it ’round here, I’ll be gone shortly.

    Considering how you keep getting your ass handed to you ’round her, maybe that’s best.

    Put it this way – nobody is going to court based on this info. Not civil, and of course not criminal as the statute of limitations ran out decades ago, but also because most of the evidence simply is too questionable.

    Restating the obvious that has already been posted here is stupid and even retarded.

    Don’t go full retard, Scrib. Not a good look.

  74. @Sentient, did you see that mid-sentence subcom correction the baseball wife did when she said, “I got a baseball player; she got a prince” line? It’s like she realized that she was putting her husband down, then changed her tune, but her subcoms knew she fucked up.

  75. The age gap is already an issue. The girls under 30 are just fine with older men. Once they hit 30 – 32 themselves in the Epiphany phase they switch to fussing about men spending attention on all those childish bitches under 30; don’t those 35 year old men know that a real, mature woman of 32 is what they need? Double down on that for every year added her age and every man added to her N. The 39 year old girl gets all jealous of the 32 year old, “Oh, always the younger ones!”, etc. etc. and etc. Because rules are for other girls, not for moi!

    Solipsism. It’s always on the ladies lunch menu.

  76. Just watched the engagement interview. She is incredibly polished in her responses, definitely been coached on what to say and her actress training obviously helps.

    Wonder what the story is behind the divorce?

  77. @Anon – What an emotional and intellectual child you are. Word parsing ain’t arguing, and drawing distinctions without a difference is a waste of time. Try to get over your anger at women and your sense of victimization, that kind of stuff looks bad on a man and also makes you come off like such a ponce. What – nobody told you that? Nah, come on, you’ve been a cunt on the internet for years now, I’m surely not the first to see through your weak shit.

    Idea for you. Why don’t you and Nova get together and suck each other’s dicks? Perhaps you’d both sperg out a little less?

  78. @smh29: the only right women are denied is the right to be called sexy while sporting a beard.

    But fear not, now that you have been made aware of it, I can see you starting a “Movember is sexist” campaign to change all that iniquity.

    And i’ll be nice enough to throw you a slogan:

    “Got stache ladies? Down with the patriarchy, up with pilosity.”

    No need to thank me.

  79. Scribblerg

    @Anon – What an emotional and intellectual child you are.

    You’re going to burn out the lamp on your projector using it so often.

    Word parsing ain’t arguing, and drawing distinctions without a difference is a waste of time.

    Then why are you doing it? Why aren’t you actually arguing like an adult. For example, you could explain what you mean by “traditional conservative” and explicate on what a society run by them would look like. Or you could defend tradcons by pointing to all their many victories over feminism in the last 20 – 50 years….

    You could try to keep up with the topics here by reading and thinking, instead of just dropping by to leave one of your pseudo-intellectual turds in the punchbowl, too. Of course if that would be too much work for you, it’s understandable at your advanced age.

    Try to get over your anger at women and your sense of victimization,

    LOL! Such obvious projection.

    that kind of stuff looks bad on a man and also makes you come off like such a ponce. What – nobody told you that? Nah, come on, you’ve been a cunt on the internet for years now, I’m surely not the first to see through your weak shit.

    Scribblerg, this is weak sauce even as trolling. Can you actually address one of your own topics, aside from the usual “Me Scrib! Me always right!”? Or is your insecurity still so great that you are just afraid of real, robust debate?

    Idea for you. Why don’t you and Nova get together and suck each other’s dicks? Perhaps you’d both sperg out a little less?

    LOL, have you been hanging out at the high schools too much lately?

    Say, Scrib, how’s your Sugar Baby game working out? Figured out a way to get attention from a woman without paying for it, yet?

  80. @AR
    All the women are wishing you will still pay them somehow afterwards even when they are cumming all over their butts.

  81. Returning to the Traditional Conservatives that Scribblerg brought up, the Amish and Mennonites would arguably fit just about anyone’s definition. Clearly defined sex roles, women marry in their late teens to early 20’s, families have more than two children – I do not know what the Amish TFR is but it’s probably at least 3 children / woman / lifespan if not more. So why don’t they have any real effect on US culture?

    Because they don’t want to get involved. Both groups come from Germany / Central Europe originally as emigrants seeking to get away from war. Both groups embrace simplicity in living in a way that puts poseurs like Thoreau in the shade, although friends in Pennsylvania have told me of all the legalistic dodges that are used to get around restrictions on “English” technology. It was headline news in Pennsylvania when the Amish showed up en masse to vote in 2016, because they generally don’t participate in elections.

    So the Amish / Mennonites amount to an entire MGTOW culture. They exist within the larger culture but they are not part of it. Therefore they don’t have much of an effect in the short run or even the intermediate run. They also would never accept most of us, or maybe any of us, as converts. For sure they’d laugh Scribblerg right off of their farmland. Because they demand real work, posing and posturing is nothing to the Amish / Mennonites.

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