The Creep – Part 2

Just so we’re clear here, yes, I get that there are a lot of ways to take the term ‘creepy’. In last week’s essay I wanted to dig into what women claim is ‘creepy’ and how this term is really another illustration of ambiguous fem-speak rooted in how a guy makes a woman feel. Furthermore, this feeling is modified by where that man is stationed in her perception of his sexual market value (SMV).

Last week I got linked a Tweet about ‘creeps’ by Roosh (he still hates me). He had a good point, and I paraphrase,

“Creeps are just guys that go from 0-100 in sexualizing a conversation with a woman way too fast. A good PUA knows that slow and steady sexualization works best.”

Take that how you want, but I think this is definitely part of the creep dynamic. There’s a bit more to being creepy than overly fast sexualization (or presumed familiarity); we’ve got to account for a Blue Pill / Beta guy’s lack of social intelligence to understand that taking it slow should be something he knows already. And still, how can we presume this slow and steady sexualization is a proficient form of seduction when we see more Alpha, more immediately arousing men, go from 0-100 themselves and get a same night lay? I’ve done this myself more than a few times back in a time when there was no formal Game to be had. Right guy, right place, right time, and 0-100 is what a woman is hoping will happen. Hypergamy is nothing if not pragmatic.

That said, I am convinced that this over-investment, too quick, too soon is definitely part of the creepy dynamic. I’ve made the call in several prior posts that it’s part of the Beta mindset to want to bypass the arousal and attraction phases of seduction to go directly to rapport. Thus, you get a guy who shares too much way too soon and this itself is creepy for women. It’s a huge telegraphing of that guy’s state of desperation and optionlessness. There’s no mystery left about the guy (assuming the girl even had an initial attraction) and nothing left to figure out. This over-sharing is also a huge red flag to women’s Hypergamous filters; it’s an indication that a guy ‘doesn’t get it’ with regard to how to play the Game with her.

You see, this rush to get to comfort and rapport is usually because that ‘creep’ is anxious to get past the arousal phase, the sexual tension, because he has no clue what to do in that phase. It’s a real source of anxiety for him, and besides, every woman he’s ever asked has said she needed to be comfortable with a guy before she has sex with him (false). Comfort, rapport, familiarity (all of which are anti-seductive) should be where the sex begins to his way of thinking, so again, male deductive logic would follow that getting there quickly would be pragmatic.

When a more Alpha, natural, moves quickly it’s almost always because he’s working with a receptive (proceptive) woman. As I mentioned before, arousal covers for a lot of men’s deficits in Game or feelings of creepery.

The Creeps

As most readers will have probably guessed I’ve timed the release of this series to address the current Hysteria of sexual assault / harassment / rape charges that are  moving like wildfire through Hollywood first, and now through the rest of our pop-culture social strata. While it may be satisfying to see mealy-mouth self-righteous actors and moguls take a fall, it’s important to see the larger social mechanics in play here.

I wrote that essay over a year ago and I’ll say now that I’d never dreamed how prophetic that post would turn out. Criticizing this #MeToo sexual assault hysteria is next to impossible. For the same reasons no one wanted to question the veracity of the UVA fraternity rape hoax that Rolling Stone and Sabrina Erdley perpetrated – no one now wants to question the accusations leveled at the various personalities being conveniently outed for sexual assault/harassment that in some cases occurred 30-40 years ago. We are expected to believe the testimonies of women without question.

This isn’t to say that the celebrities involved didn’t do what their accusers are saying they did, it’s that we are expected to accept that this behavior is endemic in all men, and based on the same principle of believing whatever a woman has to say about it with no afterthought given to its truth or her motives. It’s one thing to presume that whenever a woman comes forward with a rape or assault claim we are expected to presume the man guilty until proven innocent, but we’re rapidly reaching a point where any claim a woman has about a man bears that same weight. When it comes down to ‘he said, she said’, what she said will hold the full weight of the law.

Our Feminine-primary social order is now repurposing this ironclad believability of women – and presumed guilt of men – for every crime a woman ‘feels’ she’s been a victim of at the hands of a man. At the same time we see sexual harassment being defined as something that even a wink from a man can convey, we also see the rapid criminalization of men  who would dare to talk to a woman they don’t already know.

When we combine this overarching presumption of male guilt with the potential crime of men dealing with a woman with the intent of establish intimacy, and then add to it the ever changing definition of what can constitute sexual assault or harassment (and with a uniquely endless statute of limitations), we begin to get a clearer picture of the direction the Feminine Imperative has for men.

I’m sure this all seems very reactionary, but so was the questioning of Sabrina Erdley’s story about a nameless girl who was violently raped on the shattered glass of a broken coffee table by fraternity boys. Once again, I’m not saying sexual assault doesn’t happen, I’m saying that the direction gynocentrism is taking is one in which men ought to lose rights and liberties that only women ought to be the judges of.

Creepiness is a feeling women get from men who lack the social skills to ‘just get it’ that they are or aren’t into them. What this distills down to on a root level is women’s presuming that men should know better than to approach them when they are beneath their Hypergamous attraction floor. It is the criminalization of men not understanding how they fit into women’s sexual strategies. I made a case for this in The Political is Personal. The more men resist the social intents of Hypergamy, the more it will become necessary to legislate men to comply with it.

Feminine-primary social doctrine is an extension of  women’s Hypergamy.

Any deviation from this is on the part of  men is met with a cultural reprisal designed to convince or coerce men to accept their inevitable role in providing those entitlements to women. When those social contingencies fail, or become played out, the Feminine Imperative then appeals to legal legislation to mandate men’s compliance to what amounts to women’s social entitlement to optimized Hypergamy.

We’re rapidly reaching this peak Hypergamous state. As I mentioned in Male Control, since the Las Vegas shooting the narrative of masculinity has shifted. There is no more “toxic” masculinity – it’s masculinity on-whole that is toxic. As Open Hypergamy becomes more institutionalized and made a societal norm by the Feminine Imperative, and as more men become Red Pill aware (by effort or consequences) because of it, the more necessary it will become for a feminine-primary social order to legislate and mandate men comply with it.

In the Zone

Morpheus had a great comment last week that hit on what I went into in Sexual Zoning:

The term “creep” can really lead in a bunch of different directions discussion wise, but I think a really big one is “sexual zones” vs “non-sexual zones”. Increasingly, there are all sorts of places where the default presumption is that women should be “free from” male advances. Work, school, etc. In these zones, the margin for error is very small. Unless you are an objectively visually attractive man with super tight game, the odds of you being perceived as a “creep” are much, much higher. In sexual zones, such as the Friday night bar, your margin for error is higher. The default presumption is men are there to meet women. You still need to have the right social vibe and not come across as a weirdo but you have a little more room to play with.

And from that post:

I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.

A while ago I read this piece about Mike Pence:

“In 2002, Mike Pence told The Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.”

Naturally the media wants to pass this off as some masculine insecurity on Pence’s part. Certainly there’s a religious reason for Pence not wanting to present any perception of impropriety – I’ve know pastor who will never have closed door meetings with women or do counseling for women without their wives present – but there is a practical side to this habit. It prevents the accusations and opportunity for anything like what we’re seeing in the accusation cycling through Hollywood today. But still, shaming the masculine is the first reflex for the mainstream media.

This Atlantic article is an exercise in deliberately not seeing the intersexual writing on the wall. This is the practical contingency for a social order bent on removing men via accusations of sexual misconduct. Yet still, for all of the inherent dangers of a frivolous sexual harassment suit at the disposal of any and every western woman, men are supposed to leave themselves vulnerable to them:

Pence is not the only powerful man in Washington who goes to great lengths to avoid the appearance of impropriety with the opposite sex. An anonymous survey of female Capitol Hill staffers conducted by National Journal in 2015 found that “several female aides reported that they have been barred from staffing their male bosses at evening events, driving alone with their congressman or senator, or even sitting down one-on-one in his office for fear that others would get the wrong impression.” One told the reporter Sarah Mimms that in 12 years working for her previous boss, he “never took a closed door meeting with me. … This made sensitive and strategic discussions extremely difficult.”

This is the social environment feminism and our gynocentric social order has chosen to establish for men and women. Men pragmatically look for ways to guard themselves against allegation, and yet are shamed for that sensibility. It’s gotten (or will get) to the point where old books “decent” behavior is too risky to engage in in the modern workplace. Powerful men must hide behind open doors, and still those men are shamed for being prudent. Why?

We live in a new era where marriage has become disincentivized for men by the risks of capital loss in divorce that overwhelmingly favors women with cash & prizes. Now add to this the increasing ego entitlements of women to high value men. As the prospect of marriage looks less and less like a good deal for men wanting to protect themselves there comes a need for women to create ways to bypass the requirement for marriage to access men’s capital. Enter the era of increasingly more nebulous, acrimonious, accusations of sexual harassment or assault and de facto believability of women’s testimony. Exit the era of frivolous divorce (okay maybe not entirely) and enter the era of more easily accessible capital via frivolous sexual assault lawsuits.

More to come in part 3.

200 comments

  1. Children push boundaries until their parents say ENOUGH.

    Western women are like a classroom full of kids without a teacher.

    Patriarchal societies evolved to do just that. With the absence of this in the west there is now a power vacuum.

    A strong patriarchal society that gives women discipline, rules, order etc will take over. It has to. Kids are craving a firm leader. Chaotic classrooms don’t survive.

    Whether you like it or not, that is the reason Islam will dominate. It doesn’t tolerate this gigantic female shit test.

  2. This last sentiment hit me especially hard. Long story short: I moved recently and have been trolling the web for fresh meat. Found out about “seeking arrangements” – every girl in my new town in on this site. Every girl I’ve hooked up with. Every woman I work with. Every girl I’ve ever been introduced to through friends. And all the girls online that I never scored with, but still recognize, are on this site. Plus thousands of others from the surrounding areas (my town is isolated so it’s relatively easy to filter for). I can’t stop thinking about it. I can’t stop the tape in my head from replaying, “every woman is a whore.” It’s a little sickening but with evidence like this… I mean… What else am I to think?

  3. Los Angeles is the bellwether for American culture.

    Young women there commonly date Instagram celebrities, rappers, artists — men with exaggerated status due to their talents or looks.

    They are commonly underemployed, or unemployed.

    And, if they do not have generous parents subsidizing their lifestyle, they have sugar daddies on the side.

    See: Louis CK. The war is over; the everyday man has been redefined as a creepy perv,

    Sugar daddy-ism will be the next step, and the only way for the beta male to access female sexuality.

  4. Now a question to which I do not know the answer.

    Assuming sexual zoning as stated here becomes “legislated” to keep women safe from us Beta creeps, how do women overall expect to find mates in such a highly constricted SMP?

    And how will they “legislate” men (other than DGAF Alphas) to approach when all approaches are subject to criminalization or firing or severe social shaming? When HR departments even more strictly ban employees’ hooking up or trying to? When approaches in public spaces by the wrong man can be D.P. Arrests or cellphone videoed into Twit Shame threads? Seems to me this hasn’t been thought through. Or has it and I’m just not seeing what the endgame is? Is the endgame like that Spectator piece’s positing that a new world of forced celibacy is upon us, even more tightassed than Victorian England? A total 180 from the liberation of the sexual revolution?

    Maybe part 3 will hit this target.

    (Tweeted from the Bergen shopping mall security holding cell. They’re banning me again for chatting up the Forever 21 staff, I hate when that happens).

  5. Fred

    “how do women overall expect to find mates in such a highly constricted SMP?”

    That’s what the Alpha Farms of 2035 are for.

  6. That said, I am convinced that this over-investment, too quick, too soon is definitely part of the creepy dynamic.

    I can see your point, @Rollo. Betas fail to demonstrate high value (A1), get attraction from the girl (A2) before they show their own interest. But I think the problem goes deeper.

    Betas fail to calibrate women’s level of interest. Betas return IOIs when a girl gives off IODs. Oops, they should return IODs for IODs.

    NB:

    Now I don’t calibrate so well real time, because autism, so I do things a little differently…I do lots of IODs and only a few IOIs and that works well, too. An intermittent return of IOIs for IOIs. Except low self-esteem girls can’t take a rich mixture of IODs and I have to backpedal with them.

  7. “The more men resist the social intents of Hypergamy, the more it will become necessary to legislate men to comply with it.

    Feminine-primary social doctrine is an extension of women’s Hypergamy.”

    I am waiting for the mandate that all Alpha males must be single and govt. subsidized for dating purposes. Where’s my company card?

  8. Fred Flange
    Assuming sexual zoning as stated here becomes “legislated” to keep women safe from us Beta creeps, how do women overall expect to find mates in such a highly constricted SMP?

    Why, men will “just get it”, of course. It willl “just happen”.
    Women aren’t very good at cause and effect, remember?

  9. I’ve know pastor who will never have closed door meetings with women or do counseling for women without their wives present

    I know professors who do that, too.

  10. @Yhufir

    I can’t stop the tape in my head from replaying, “every woman is a whore.” It’s a little sickening but with evidence like this… I mean… What else am I to think?

    You can deal with your Grief stages by trolling the manosphere in search of how to deal with the Madonna/Whore complex. That complex is merely a sentiment. A sentiment is: a view of or attitude toward a situation or event; an opinion. a feeling or emotion.

    It is OK to have sentiments, it is not manly to make them detriments to your purpose. That’s where strength and courage should play a role.

    Shut down the loop of bad emotions, work on your purpose. Don’t let emotions dictate your actions. Men don’t do that. Girls do that. Do you want to be a girl? Or do you want to be good at being a man that women want to get with.

    Not all girls are whores and some girls are not Madonnas. You know that, but your emotions are getting the best of you. Stop that. Because you still need to live a life with girls in it.

    Madonna/Whore complex is a cognitive approach to dealing with your buffers and your insecurities. Shrug it off whenever it creeps up. Billions of girls out there and you want their feminine energy. You can’t use Madonna/Whore as a buffer. It’s unbecoming of you. It’s a limiting belief.

  11. In sadie hawkins world if it comes, what’s the fallout from all the women being turned down by the attractive men they feel they deserve?

  12. Although it isn’t apparent given the current state of things, and that it is highly probable that things will get worse before they improve, I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of feminism. The human species, nature, simply will not sustain it. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but sooner than many more generations it will end. I just don’t see what will replace it,

  13. “In sadie hawkins world if it comes, what’s the fallout from all the women being turned down by the attractive men they feel they deserve?”

    Why do you ask what women want? Who cares? What are you doing about that?

    Why do you ask what a top down approach would look like? The inter-sexual relationship game is in decline. From a bottoms up approach to your purpose, you should enjoy the decline. Not to think how things ought to be, but how They IS.

    BTW Andy Capp was the inventor of Sadie Hawkins Day. And he was Harvey Weinsteined back in the day:

    http://reason.com/archives/2013/02/26/the-wizard-of-dogpatch

    And if you want a SJW take on the issue:

    Ugly truths are ugly truths. Sadie Hawkins was an ugly 35 year old. Sadie Hawkins day was a farce who got a stick up her ass and a uppercut to her face.

    http://womenyoushouldknow.net/ugly-truth-behind-sadie-hawkins-day/

    Sadie Hawkins was not an actual person. She made her public debut in cartoon artist Al Capp’s November 15, 1937 comic strip Li’l Abner, which was set in the fictional mountain village of Dogpatch, Kentucky. Sadie, “the homeliest gal in all them hills,” was the daughter of Hezekiah, the town’s most wealthy and powerful man. Because Sadie was so ugly, she couldn’t land herself a husband. It terrified Hezekiah to think that his “ancient” 35-year-old daughter would suffer the worst humiliation a woman could ever experience – being an old maid – so he took the matter into his own hands.

    Al Capp’s original Sadie HawkinsCalling all the bachelors in town, Hezekiah declared it “Sadie Hawkins Day” and ordered a race of eligible bachelors with Sadie chasing after them… when a man was caught, he would be legally bound to marry her. The other town spinsters loved this idea so much that they declared Sadie Hawkins Day a mandatory annual event, which was recreated in the comic strip by Capp every November… for FORTY years!

    The real question is how are you going to deal with this decline, and the fallout? It’s only going to get worse. But do you see that as a high hurdle or a low hurdle. Your expectations will dictate your flow of intention and outcome.

  14. In sadie hawkins world if it comes, what’s the fallout from all the women being turned down by the attractive men they feel they deserve?

    If you apply Occam’s razor? They won’t get the attractive men they feel they deserve.

    Where’s that leave you? Be attractive, don’t be unattractive. OK?

  15. This post is completely on point. Now I understand why I had a reputation for being creepy back in middle and high school. It’s really just an easy way for women to weed out the betas for the Alphas. As for the betas, they get slapped with sexual harassment charges or have HR called on them

  16. We got to get Yufir a woman.

    Leroy, boy, is that you?
    I thought your post-hangin’ days were through,
    Sunk-in eyes and full of sighs,
    Tell no lies, you get wise,
    I tell you now we’re gonna pull you through,
    There’s only one thing left that we can do

    We gotta get you a woman,
    It’s like nothin’ else to make you feel sure you’re alive
    We gotta get you a woman,
    We better get walkin’, we’re wastin’ time talkin’ now

    Leroy, boy, you’re my friend
    You say how and I’ll say when
    Come and meet me down the street
    Take a seat, it’s my treat
    You may not ever get this chance again
    That empty feeling’s just about to end

    We gotta get you a woman,
    It’s like nothin’ else to make you feel sure you’re alive
    We gotta get you a woman,
    We better get walkin’, we’re wastin’ time talkin’ now

    Talkin’ ’bout life and what it means to you,
    It don’t mean nothin’ if it don’t run through
    I got one thing to say, you know it’s true
    You got to find some time to get this thing together

    We gotta get you a woman,
    It’s like nothin’ else to make you feel sure you’re alive
    We gotta get you a woman,
    We better get walkin’, we’re wastin’ time talkin’ now

    Talkin’ ’bout things about that special one
    They may be stupid but they sure are fun
    I’ll give it to you while we’re on the run
    Because we ain’t got time to get this thing together, ’cause we

    Got to get together with a woman who has been around,
    One who knows better than to let you down,
    Let’s hope there’s still one left in this whole town,
    And that she’ll take some time to get this thing together, ’cause
    To get this thing together, ’cause

    We gotta get you a woman
    We gotta get you a woman
    We gotta get you a woman
    And when we’re through with you,
    We’ll get me one too

    Writer: TODD RUNDGREN

    “With the line, “They may be stupid, but they sure are fun,” this song ran headlong into the feminist movement of the early ’70s and caused quite a bit of controversy; a female music director at a Detroit radio station spoke out against the song, and a college radio station in Connecticut came under fire for playing it.

    According to Rundgren, the song was widely misinterpreted, with the offending line typically taken out of context. “Just because I used the word ‘stupid,’ they think I was referring to women,” Rundgren told Red Bull Music Academy. “I’m not referring to women, I’m talking about stupid little characteristics that people have.”” –Songfacts/com.

    Don’t have stupid little characteristics people have in their pretty little meme fed social-conventionalista Blue Pill World. The Matrix is an illusion.

    Life is too short. To not Start the World. Flip the Switch. Act. Get a girl. There is no such thing as a Madonna/Whore hellish world. Unless you believe there is.

    My 84 year old mother is complaining about time flying by. Go figure. It is just because she is doing every thing right and has no conflicts with all that is out there. No skeletons in the closet, no health issues, no misunderstanding of how life is, mind not blocking the heart, Etc.

    Shit I thinking time is flying by too quickly too. But it is a good thing. I’m having fun and getting things done. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is now. You should see what I planted 4-5 years ago. It’s pretty cool looking.

  17. I had a recent experience relating to this topic in the field. A guy wrote a note on a napkin and give it to a girl at a restaurant i was at. I wound up approaching her and talking to her and when I noticed the napkin, she responded by saying “this creepy guy gave it to me.” After some conversation and a bit of mischief I was able to setup a date for the following week, but more on topic, 2 guys approached this girl. One guy was written of as entirely creepy while the other was accepted.

    For the full story, you can read it here: https://alphajedi.com/2017/11/14/the-catfish-maneuver/

  18. Despite the undeniable “success ” of the Feminist movement I have read that many studies show that female happiness levels are at a generational low.

    Women have never had so much freedom, attention never been so pandered to and spoilt emotionally and materialistically never been so protected from the harsh realities of life, yet they are less happy than their pre feminism counterparts!

    Could it be that women have no fucking idea what they really need to be content?

    Or is simply that they do know what they ALL want and DESERVE? The answer being The Best!

    No matter how unattractive, unfeminine and disagreeable they are, they believe they are entitled to top tier men, and with only so many to go around they mostly end up disappointed and alone or have to “settle” for a beta ( who objectively many times is actually a more than even SMV pairing ) that they will soon come to despise adding to their unhappiness.

    Women who ride the CC and don’t manage to lock down the alpha of their choice are irretrievably broken.

    These Alpha widows will never accept that they were punching above their weight in the market and that that’s why they were left empty handed, it will always be something else, bad luck, bad timing, immaturity on behalf of her intended victim etc. It will never be her fault for overplaying her hand.

    Do women believe that shaping male/female interaction in the ways that we are currently seeing will make them happier?

    If they don’t have to put up with the bothersome attempts of unattractive betas and can
    Actually destroy the careers and lives of such men for relatively minor indiscretions, will their lives be improved?

    What when despite having all these advantages to optimise their hypergamy they still fail because Newsflash! Most of them are not top tier themselves!

    Could their delicate egos that have been inflated by social media and dating site chumps ever accept that they overplayed their hand? And that’s why they they failed?

    The biggest mistake they make is believing the guys they can fuck are the same as the guys they can marry. They never seem to be able to come to the conclusion that they were acceptable to these men only as low investment sport fucking material and not potential Long term mates.

    Add to this their inability to “settle for less” after being fucked by these really unobtainable men and you have a recipe for unhappiness for about 80% of BOTH sexes.

    But I don’t see anything changing soon, it’s law of the jungle out there until societal collapse, so deal with reality or reality will deal with you.

  19. I can easily see variants of the Pence Rule being put into place across many businesses in the wake of this current scandal. But I believe the main advantage of such rules will be to instill an unconscious discipline that, around female co-workers, men must always be on guard and carefully watch what they do and say. Always having to be careful not to be alone with a female co-worker, if at all possible, would act to constantly reinforce this discipline.

  20. “In sadie hawkins world if it comes, what’s the fallout from all the women being turned down by the attractive men they feel they deserve?”
    —————————–
    Feminism IS Sadie Hawkins world.
    Feminism is wallflower females getting back at the men that reject them.
    Why else would ugly women be so interested in placing such big hammers in the hands of pretty girls?

  21. At my work, I have my own office (not a cubicle, an actual office with real walls). But I’m normally only there 1-2 x a week. The CEO recently asked if I would consider sharing my office with a female co-worker, who is normally onsite 4 days a week. I vetoed it, saying it would affect our productivity to share an office that is too small to share anyway.

    What I didn’t tell him was there is no way in hell I’m going to be alone with an attractive female co-worker. The possibility of a false accusation from her was part of my reasoning. But my biggest concern by far was the rumor mill. Lots of women at this workplace who gossip like there’s no tomorrow. It would just be a matter of days before these bitches start gossiping that I’m getting it on with this co-worker.

    Perception is everything. Clearly, some of these guys in the public eye did what they’re accused of. Others are probably just simply being accused. And once you’ve been accused, there’s no putting that genie back in the bottle. The perception is there whether you tried to fuck her or not.

    The CEO backed off the request, fortunately. Had he pushed the issue, I would have resigned.

  22. Combining:

    When a more Alpha, natural, moves quickly it’s almost always because he’s working with a receptive (proceptive) woman.

    And

    [The Pence Rule] prevents the accusations and opportunity for anything like what we’re seeing in the accusation cycling through Hollywood today.

    Yields:

    It’s a mistake (and sometimes a fatal one) to ignore what you know is just under the surface. It’s comforting to believe that you’ve got a special connection, and while the conditions are right, you’ll preserve a relationship based on mutual trust and shared affinity. The flaw is in believing that trust, and kinship is unconditional; that the underlying feral motivators are subdued to the point of being inconsequential.

    In this case mastery is understanding the other is an apex predator just like you. Her thinking she’s a Disney princess is one thing; you thinking she is is another thing altogether.

  23. “I can easily see variants of the Pence Rule being put into place across many businesses in the wake of this current scandal. ”

    LOL. By who? The FI???

    You realize the complaints about the Pence Rule are it limits women’s access to power… And unsaid “Alpha Seed”.

    You realize they want it both ways right? Use their feminity and looks for either alpha seed or more bux.

    Where are the women who did massage Wei stein and advanced their careers? Quietly cashing checks.

  24. Calibration is key…reading a woman’s body language and knowing your own subcomms.

    Body language never lies. If a woman is truly backing away, you back off.

    If she’s leaning in, looking at you with the doggie dinner bowl eyes…you move closer.

    The problem with “creeps” or “creepiness” is the pushiness that goes with it.

    Ask a girl for drinks and she’s flattered. Then she tells a few friends who say “Wow, he just wants to sleep with you, he’s so creepy…”

    I’ve been faced with this situation. I think if I gamed the girl correctly sparking attraction and then moved towards some comfort the girl doesn’t flake.

    If somehow that peer pressure is too great, the girl flakes. Sometimes a girl’s default position is to flake.

  25. I remember watching a movie with Stallone many years ago where he was some sort of cop in the future. One of the themes in this movie was that nobody had regular sex anymore. It was illegal or at least, people looked down on it and refrained from having it. All future life was secured by incimination. As I recall it.
    As far as I remember, the movie was ok, but I remember wondering why someone would come up with such an idea of people not having sex in the future. Sex between a man and a woman is beatiful or at least, it’s good, right?

    The more I read about all this #MeToo in the media at the moment and the more things are exposed on this and other blogs. The more meaning does that movie have to me in terms of the future of sex and relationships.

    I don’t even think that the author was trying to predict why people would refrain from sex in the future. But he did, after all, maybe see some warning signs in the culture.

    That said, I believe that women can have many reasons to regard guys as creeps.
    I’m totally onto what is written in this and the previous post, but a lot of men just dont get it. Or just WONT get it when it comes to interactions with women. The stories I have heard from women about guys on dating sites and in bar environments makes me pleased that I’m not born as a woman.

    Great post. Looking forward to the next.

  26. “One of the themes in this movie was that nobody had regular sex anymore.”

    Demolition Man lifted that from Woody Allen’s Sleeper.

  27. @sjf
    “In sadie hawkins world if it comes, what’s the fallout from all the women being turned down by the attractive men they feel they deserve?

    If you apply Occam’s razor? They won’t get the attractive men they feel they deserve.
    Where’s that leave you? Be attractive, don’t be unattractive. OK?”

    Rule number 1 in Zombie Land, Cardio.

    You don’t have to outrun the bear, just be faster than the other guy right?

  28. “I can easily see variants of the Pence Rule being put into place across many businesses in the wake of this current scandal. ”

    “LOL. By who? The FI???”

    Who else? Try to look at the cause and effect. In women’s quest for equality, they have created an environment with an overbearing climate of depravity. This was done by their own manipulation, as has been pointed out many times, women don’t really get the cause and effect of even basic mechanics. The future may hold the end of coed altogether,for a time.

  29. Are bicycle wheel spokes spindly support sticks that miraculously hold up the weight?

    Or are they oppositional prestressed single strand cables that do their job?

  30. Isn’t #metoo the greatest societal shit test ever conceived?

    Creation of outrage on a hyper-scale

    Obvious beta tell spotting as a campaign through #whatchoogonnadonowifyouseeacreepcreepingonawoman

    Obfuscation of the term “sexual harassment”

    Obvious attempts to control male’s sexual agency with calls to redefine laws to make a broader definition of sexual harrassment (don’t startle a woman by sneezing loudly next to her, or else…)

    Shame,Shame, Shame blame meme/posts on all men for being men: “Hey, penises are like guns so men=BAD”

  31. “As far as I remember, the movie was ok, but I remember wondering why someone would come up with such an idea of people not having sex in the future. Sex between a man and a woman is beatiful or at least, it’s good, right?”

    Welcome to the Monkey House

    http://www.gradesaver.com/kurt-vonnegut-short-stories/study-guide/summary-welcome-to-the-monkey-house

    Vonnegut suggests here that fake, strict morality denies human nature, and hence cannot be tolerated. Though the story does feel dated in some ways, it remains extremely relevant considering how many forces in America – both in politics and in everyday life – continue to demean open sexuality as sinful.

    Vonnegut exaggerates this type of morality for comic effect, suggesting that the overly-moral set has an unrealistic sense of how sex affects a person. In contrast to those good citizens who take the mandated ethical birth control, the nothingheads are described as “bombed out of their skulls with the sex madness that came from taking nothing” . The idea of “sex madness” is necessarily absurd, considering that sexuality is so natural.

    The sexual strictures in the story are criticized not only for denying human nature, but also for working against human individuality, another central theme in Vonnegut’s work. By numbing everyone’s sex drive, the government has effectively equalized people, similar to the situation in “Harrison Bergeron.” Taken this way, Billy the Poet becomes a powerfully rebellious leader, one whose mission is not just the reemergence of sexuality, but also of individuality.

    Sex madness–OK for Alphas like Billy the Poet. But not Beta Creeps. And no letting the players play it out on the playing field. Governmental Authorities need to control the masses.

  32. Assuming sexual zoning as stated here becomes “legislated” to keep women safe from us Beta creeps, how do women overall expect to find mates in such a highly constricted SMP?

    Fred —

    In the sexual zones. They still exist. Bars, clubs, concerts, venues, clubs, activities, Tinder/Bumble, etc. The main push is to de-sexualize (other than for true apex arousal men) places that aren’t specifically tuned to be “places where people go to meet other people” — so, the workplace, the classroom, the grocery store, the apartment building corridor, the street and so on. These are “neutral zones” or de-sexed zones where it is ok to approach a woman if she gives clear IOIs and you are an apex guy in terms of arousal triggers (this avoids pissing off the other women who are not giving clear IOIs but who would feel harassed by a hostile environment if a guy they think is creepy is hitting on *other* women in the environment), but otherwise strictly sexually neutral, de-sexed, sanitized. By contrast, the overtly sexual spaces — ranging from racier ones like clubs to more subdued ones like clubs — are all places people go to meet others, and approaches are not expected to be de-sanitized in these spaces –> it’s still possible to be considered a creep in these spaces, of course, but as Morpheus rightly said in the other thread, you have a bit more manueverability in these spaces, because at least you’re not doing something that is considered “inappropriate for the environment”.

    In general, I think women like the highly constricted SMP, Fred. The biggest issue they face is too much unwanted attention from betas, and the easiest way to choke that off is to make it illegal/impermissible in the neutral spaces, and limit it to spaces where betas are often either unlikely to be present, or easy to deflect. I think women prefer it this way, for clear reasons.

    —-

    Found out about “seeking arrangements” – every girl in my new town in on this site.

    Eh, that must be wrong. Sure, there are more women on these sites than anyone thinks, but it isn’t a majority of women anywhere. Tinder, yes. SA? Not really. Need a reality check.

    —-

    I can easily see variants of the Pence Rule being put into place across many businesses in the wake of this current scandal.

    Yeah I don’t see it as a rule businesses will put into place at all. What I do see, however, is it becoming something that more men institute for themselves in workplaces, quietly, rather than announcing a “rule”. But that’s already happening, and has been happening for some time — it’s just getting focused on now.


    Rollo —

    As you say, the main issue behind this is the eradication of masculinity, in toto. The ideas you see getting bandied about as a part of #metoo are basically trying to say that all masculinity is toxic — all masculinity is about mass murder and mass sexual assault, and of you aren’t a vocal supporter of trans and gay rights, you’re basically the same as a mass murderer and mass sexual assaulter. The idea is not simply to constrain, but to transform by making the “old” form of masculinity simply unacceptable, to be replaced by the “new” form, which SJWs, radical feminists and LGBTQ activists will define for men, and which will basically make it increasingly difficult for any upwardly mobile man to buck compliance with it and still get on in life. This is the main danger.

    I still think that men who get it will get a pass in the coming system, because too many women will be issuing such passes to them, becoming increasingly starved in a desert of non-masculine men (basically gay men who happen to be hetero). But it will become harder to navigate the rest of life — they are looking to outlaw all of it socially now, all of it. It won’t come overnight, but that’s clearly the plan.

  33. @ wala

    Lol, that Hitch clip is me and my current wife before we started dating. I was always watching dudes approach her and flame completely out. She had a reputation of being a stuck up, evil bitch ( not my words ). Because she was drowning in a sea of lameness, initially I couldn’t even get a ” hello ” out of her.

    Hitch and Boomerang are my favorite movies dealing with man and woman and dating and pickup. Somewhat instructive ( for a movie ) and also cautionary.

  34. Some of what is “creepy” has to be defined in correct social context. I went to a lingerie party at a nightclub one day. There was this girl I was talking to and she had on just a pair of bra and panties. And I had just met her for the first time ever in life. Well, while I was talking to her, I felt up her tits. She acted offended for a minute, but then she gave me her number and we got together later on. Now if I was at Wal Mart and met the same girl in aisle 7 and felt on her tits, I might have gotten the cops called on me or store security.

    Or I’m at the library now. If I saw an attractive girl and went to go talk to her, even if she did think I was good looking and under some other context, may have let me feel on her tits, it probably wouldn’t go over well and would be considered “creepy” if done in the middle of the day at a library.

  35. The PUA community recognised that the game based approaching strategy will fail the majority of the time. And they recommend, correctly, that the man approaching should not be fazed by these rejections.
    In this sense, nothing has changed. Men should understand that pursuing women inevitably will make you a creep in some cases and men should not internalise this negative judgement of them.
    It is probably a good idea to be careful when initiating physical contact. Avoid touching a woman below the waist until having generated some rapport, for example.
    But overall, don’t be fazed by this campaign. Don’t let anyone tell you that you are Harvey Weinstein just because you are interested in the opposite sex and intend on doing something about it.
    Most men go through an awkward phase before getting good with women and indeed have to go through the awkward phase if they are to succeed with women. Don’t let the media scare you off. The media has its own agenda and it is not in your interest.

  36. The unwanted beta attention has always struck me as a central to all of this creepy business.

    Women want fried ice sure enough, but in their protracted efforts to reduce any and all risk and personal responsibility (anything approaching actual “equality”), they’ve employed a variant of socialism to manage the SMP, outsourcing a massive amount of their responsibility for filtering potential mates to the State and other armed factions of the cultural overlords. So they end up creating the kind of disparity, chaos, and despair that one would expect.

    Under this regime, women desire to categorically control/limit the unwanted beta attention by creating (and subsequently shrinking) the landscape into an increasingly complex matrix of appropriate vs creepy. On the individual level, however, they reserve the right to ignore parts (or all) of the matrix for certain kinds of men, aka the “make rules for beta, break rules for alpha” concept extrapolated onto the entirety of the SMP.

    It’s sexual market anarcho-tyranny. AKA Laws are for betas.

    The increasingly paradoxical and self-defeating conditions set upon beta men are codified through things like sexual zoning and contextual/situational rules of engagement traps, aka venue appropriateness, affirmative consent, sexual harassment, etc. such that the average, decent “rule following” men are over-policed, over-regulated, and disproportionately punished for their fumblings.

    A woman will complain all day long about the creepy guy at the gym who interrupted her workout to chat her up and ask for her number. That same woman will question why I didn’t approach her sooner (at the gym).

    Beta men are ultimately regulated out of the market, ideally to be sequestered into holding pens where they can be selectively harvested to shore-up the downstream vacancies baked-into the system, i.e. the sexual price inflation on the road to “man up and marry that slut.”

    So while most men are under the tyrannical rule of the tentacles of feminine primacy, on the margins it’s anarchy; a shrinking subset of men run free. The right tail is where the pareto principle gets compressed, the 10% are in the gravy. The rules melt away. The creep matrix is simplified, if not gone altogether. Some of it is the savvy, game, and natural ability of those men to avoid the traps, but a lot of it is that the traps weren’t designed to snare them in the first place.

    The left tail is where r-selection runs wild and actual lawlessness, violence, aggression, dark triad, and ZFG have traction.

    For the majority in the middle, the zones have been reduced to only a handful of places, times, and situations – and the rules of engagement are a humiliating labyrinth of dissonance.

    We see this play out in things like sexual tension and aggression. The “law” says comfort and familiarity lead to “earned” sex but their eyes see certain men use tension and aggression – and it works. How many fingers am I holding up? Wrong! Beta men are fattened up and then asked to pass through the eye of the needle.

    We see this zone-shrinking in stupid shit like how Tinder lost traction for women. Slutting themselves out became problematic because men were treating them like sluts. But it wasn’t just that, it was that the *wrong* men were treating them like sluts and that gave them badfeelz.

    Also problematic was how the script of plausible deniability of the right men (“netflix and chill”) fell into the hands of the wrong men and the right men started to get lazy in the gravy, so the whole illusion ran threadbare. So: Bumble. More outsourced filtering, more built-in passivity to reinforce plausible deniability and fem-centric ROE’s.

    The wrong men can no longer even approach. Women get to retain the currency of male desire, attention, and *potential* investment but with minimal risk, corollary investment, or badfeelz from the reflective self-assessment as a result of men who might just be their SMV equivalent daring to pursue them beyond admittance of interest. Assortive mating, like most truth, is uncomfortable in this grand charade.

    The Tinder-Bumble shift is a microcosm of zoning at large – and illustrative of how technology can be part of the problem but also accelerate the self-destructive nature of this system.

    For most men, the risk/reward (and even just the energy) to constantly have to learn, adapt, and navigate the SMP is just not worth it. The “just keep your head down” strategy as a result of the HR threat has now moved out of the office and into the streets.

    The HR/SJW/State is everywhere, watching, listening, ready to haul you off to the sexual gulag. And the increasingly precarious reputation management of social media and ubiquitous, hyper-superficial connectivity amplifies the downside risk. All of this, predictably, produces a massive shortage of “real men” who “just get it”, but it also crushes the incentives for many who actually do get it.

    Decent men are hyper-regulated into being passive and reactive instead of pro-active and aggressive. This is not just a functional problem, it is also part of the positive feedback loop that reduces upward mobility in terms of attractiveness.

    And overall attractiveness is ultimately what drives the creepy factor. An (already) attractive man is rarely creepy. Too aggressive, sure. Poorly calibrating, sure. But this might land him as a cad, player, or fuckboi – critiques of function, not form. An attractive man is most often called creepy like he is called a jerk. The real “creepy” is largely about form. It is ultimately reserved for betas to keep them behind the velvet rope where they belong.

  37. A socially uncalibrated autistic kid was expelled for giving a hug. But most of these thirsty creeps are habitual offenders (or rapists) who know what they are doing. They get exposed with multiple accusations. Normal guys are unaware of the extent of the problem, and don’t understand why women are so provoked that they want to regulate innocent male behavior.

  38. KL
    A socially uncalibrated autistic kid was expelled for giving a hug.

    We know. So?

    But most of these thirsty creeps are habitual offenders (or rapists) who know what they are doing. They get exposed with multiple accusations.

    Are you referring to the Hollyweird crowd? Politicians? What?

    Normal guys are unaware of the extent of the problem, and don’t understand why women are so provoked that they want to regulate innocent male behavior.

    Normal men are blinded by pretty lies, and so they don’t see the real nature of women. Especially the AF-BB aspect of hypergamy.

    Women want to regulate all male behavior, for their own benefit. That’s axiomatic.

  39. This reminds me of the unintended consequence of a Chinese law designed to make a motorist pay for any accident victim.. now if the accident is bad enough, the victim gets offed.

    The state doesn’t have enough minions to keep the peace once every interaction between male and female is that of the ‘Hugh Mungus’ YouTube video type.
    Snap, crackle, pop. The state says enough, or it gets swept away in the backlash

  40. Razorwire
    It’s sexual market anarcho-tyranny. AKA Laws are for betas.

    Of course. The big problem for women is how to filter out the Betas. As women’s expectations grow without bound, they need to slam down the Betas harder. Because of the 80/20 rule, soon to be the 90/10 rule. It doesn’t matter that this means the majority of women won’t get to ride their Alpha pony at all and for sure will wind up lonely with cats, because each one of them is a Special Snowflake who will get away with her cup of fried ice.

    One alternative for women is other women. I observed at least two workplace affairs over the last 15 years between women; in one case, two married women managed to “work late” with each other for a couple of years. Women’s greater sexual fluidity will allow that to work. But it still isn’t really enough for the female hindbrain…even lesbians in an LTR still ping for alpha.

    Over at Dalrock’s there’s a discussion about the Disney movie Frozen in general and the song “Let it go” in particular. The key line from that song is “No rules for me!” which summarizes the FI very nicely.

    Women in the West, especially in America, are making themselves unbearable. For those men with the means, Sugar Babying is going to be an alternative. A man doesn’t have to be all that congruent, good looking or even articulate to get some action that way, provided he’s willing to settle for a bit of sex a few times a month…but that beats “zero”, right For other men it will be sexbots.

    Western men as a group have failed the shit test of feminism big time. #MeToo is just another iteration of the same old same old. Because they don’t want to be chained to a Beta, women are willing to take the risk of “no man at all”. Cause and effect? Pah!

  41. Anonymous briefly touched on it: the media as usual has chosen sides and they are all in for the FI. The males in that profession have failed one shit test after another and so here we are.

    The funny thing is that media is a highly incestuous social world — reporters and editors hook up and mate with each other, or sometimes with the figures they are covering. We don’t play well with normal people and there are not many alphas in the ranks. So what happens when the media workplace becomes utterly desexualized?

  42. And then there’s the social media. As Razorwire nails it, the FI can now be everywhere at once, watching and listening for your fatal error. Oh, but don’t worry … people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

  43. “people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear.”

    I’ve heard this meme before from a young man, trouble is nobody’s perfect,we all get wise from making mistakes. The world has gotten smaller and like small town people one can be fitted in a slot for the duration of their existence.

  44. People in totalitarian societies hear that meme all the time. Societies based on fear. We’re heading that way very quickly now

  45. “people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear.”

    Law 1: You must mow your lawn.
    Law 2: You cannot mow your lawn.

  46. #MeToo is just another iteration of the same old same old. Because they don’t want to be chained to a Beta, women are willing to take the risk of “no man at all”.

    Women did not take a vote about this…lots of women see #Metoo as a problem…just like lots of men see #Metoo as a good thing. Did men take a vote about it?

  47. “Fear is a useless thing that serves no purpose for men. At all. Ever.”

    blax – haven’t seen you trolling before, that would explain your first one’s low quality

  48. I’m just so glad I was around to enjoy the ’70s and ’80s. Hope that doesn’t make me a Creepy Old Guy

  49. “Women have never had so much freedom, attention never been so pandered to and spoilt emotionally and materialistically”

    christmas used to be good. back when the entire season, at least at my house, lasted only two to three weeks. now it’s two fucking months and I’m tired of it long before the day arrives

    we all get desensitized. that’s why we have to do shit like cycle drugs when they stop having an effect

    when she’s been showered with attention every waking hour, the baseline level changes and she has to kick it up a notch to get another hit

    the problem is women never cycle off of the attention, so their hit needs max out and boom…. “I’m sad.”

    “@Razorwire. PRO comment. Hits every note. Required reading”

    agree

  50. “Hope that doesn’t make me a Creepy Old Guy”

    Here we go again with the meme’s, ‘ Creepy Old Guy” is just another myth created by PUA’s to cut competition and the FI in order to halt the spread of knowledge passed down to younger men by their elders. This has also become a hindrance to apprenticeship in the trades. Seriously who is going to listen to homer or the family guy.

  51. “Fear is what will be instilled in a man that is lacking in healthy respect.”

    grateful for this. if I wasn’t terrified of the old man growing up, I’d be in prison

    if you love your son, and he happens to be a little wild, the best thing you can do is scare him into compliance. he will thank you later when he realizes what you’ve done for him

  52. Boulderhead
    Well said. But I say Creepy Old Guy (and People with nothing to hide …) with mordantly ironic tongue firmly planted in cheek

  53. Media & FI:

    1970-77: The Mary Tyler Moore Show
    1988-98: Murphy Brown

    Strong, independent [fictional] women felt true; fiction became reality but reality has no background music.

    @O.B.I.T.: 70’s & 80’s were a gas. But I did not pull the weeds when they were tender-rooted. Husbandman fail on my part but slowly correcting.

  54. @Blax – was it in this thread or the last one you talked about your FWB calling you creepy and everything that followed?

    Keep in mind that even though you were AF for her, *and* you handled the situation perfectly, in 2017 (unlike when it happened), there’s still a risk that in those couple of days when she was mad at you, she could post on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter/whatever that you sexually assaulted her and name and shame you.

    Sure, she’ll do it in a moment of anger on her emotional rollercoaster and she’ll regret it and weep and apologize to you later (because you are AF after all), but that won’t stop you being fired from your job with not even a hint of due process or change the fact that story will always be the top hit on google for you, for the rest of your life..

    And that’s a risk even alphas have now (and another risk as we’re finding out with these decades late accusations is that the women who loved the advances when they were young, and the same women in their fifties decide that what they enthusiastically participated in then, was actually assault – and now set about destroying lives and careers).

  55. Rollo what’s Roosh’s problem with you? I stopped following him awhile back just because he was getting to “trad-con” for my liking. You’ve kept your blog and books on point and continue to enjoy your stuff. You were my gateway drug the red pill and I appreciate it always!

  56. The Pence rule is old news in the education world.

    My father, now retired, was a high school teacher in the midwest back in the 60s-70s-80s where the job was Union and a man could make a good enough living to raise a family, etc without undue stress. At that time the male teachers were concentrated in the upper grades, with the High school being about 60% male teachers.

    Back then it was relatively safe for a man to teach a coed high school class, without the fear of false accusations that is the norm now, and yes some teachers were banging students then (as they always have been).

    That started changing soon after my old man retired and it is now an incredibly unsafe profession for a man to go into. The risk has increased in large part because teens have become aware that they can make such accusations to get a teacher in trouble, and their still-in-development brains don’t think through the ramifications. The net result has contributed to the decline in the quality of education available though the public school system. Fewer men go into teaching, and those that do spend a lot of energy being on guard to protect themselves.

    Now we have this spilling over into the workplace, with female coworkers presenting as much risk as minor aged female students.

  57. @A.R.
    “Western men as a group have failed the shit test of feminism big time. #MeToo is just another iteration of the same old same old. Because they don’t want to be chained to a Beta, women are willing to take the risk of “no man at all”.”

    Yes. And if they do manage to get through the AF/BB transition, the marriage ends up pregnant with divorce.

    I’ve also seen the pivot to scissor town play out in IRL too. It’s the pseudo-sexual extension of cat lady. But what I’m seeing more of is the shift in how they value sexual currency.

    If you can’t get what you really want, just keep telling yourself you don’t really need it. When they say “I don’t need a man” they are saying “I don’t really want you, but I will bolt you onto my phone, for a time.”

    They have busy lives filled with superfluous, self-imposed complexity – and a rap sheet of consuming dudes or being consumed by dudes. They price themselves out of the market and aren’t inclined to discover that all that paper equity is just that. They re-fi’d all that equity out over their salad years and are upside down in their own lives.

    In the meantime, they can survive a long time on the corn syrup of beta orbiters and their social media and dating app mainline feeds. Once in a while they even get the attention-bang from a high SMV guy and so that keeps the great wheel turning.

    They have their careers, girl trips, EDM festivals, yoga retreats, happy hours, brunches, and TV. They will hang their profiles out there in hopes of catching the prince, but over time they do resign themselves to being a rotation girl. The divorced sinlge-mom model is creeping into the mainstream.

    Short of that, just knowing their phone is full of potential bangs seems to be enough to keep them waiting between shots at the alpha.

    More likely, poly is the future. The carpet munching option prolly pulls some of the uglies in, but any decent looking woman can get into a soft harem where the delusion can continue. Ultimately, the Pat and Sandy life is just too boring for addicts.

  58. SJB
    Murphy Brown was especially crucial because it championed single motherhood. And also in the TRM context, because actor Jay Thomas was TV’s ultimate good-guy beta-bux white-knighter, romancing various strong sitcom women.

  59. @ Culum

    Sure, she’ll do it in a moment of anger on her emotional rollercoaster and she’ll regret it and weep and apologize to you later (because you are AF after all), but that won’t stop you being fired from your job with not even a hint of due process or change the fact that story will always be the top hit on google for you, for the rest of your life..

    Good thing I’m closer to the end than I am to the beginning of my life.. lol(?).

    I kid.

    But you know what? I’m pretty sure I’d do the same thing in 2017 that I did back then in the late 90’s. I’m a little stubborn and hard headed though. The only thing I hate more than bullies and thieves is a blackmailer or a snitch ( however I define ” snitch ” differently than popular culture has redefined it ). So, I’d probably wind up ruined in some fashion…. but I’m willing to bet on myself ( crazy as fuck, I know ). I know only one surefire way to deal with females, and the time I deviated from what I knew was a lesson that I will never forget.

    YaReally used to tell me that I wouldn’t be able to get nookie if I wasn’t willing to deal with chicks and their online addictions. I, on the other hand, believed that there were ways to handle that shit, or if it couldn’t be handled, the chick was too far gone to be of worth or trusted. Yeah, Ya ” Lol’d” hard at that one.

    Admittedly, it’s much harder to pickup a chick in a club or some social setting for a SNL or something like that, and be able to imprint yourself on her. The danger factor is much higher. With longer term projects it’s easier to communicate/sub communicate some things that might dissuade a chick from attempting to destroy your life. You have to be able to tell if she’s ” just getting it “.

    And I know, chicks today are different – and I’m not going to dispute that, but like I used to stress to YaReally, the software doesn’t really change. You just need some basic hacking skills. Lol.

    I was going to put this in field reports, but wtf, I’ll put it here for now.

    Went to the bank today. I love my bank because they have an abundance of hot and semi-hot tellers and managers. They aren’t dumb when it comes to staffing and customer relations. I stepped up to a teller that I’ve dealt with several times before. Software note: I’ve only seen her a few times this year but she remembers my name. I remember hers too because it’s a really fucked up name for a pretty chick. Since the last time I saw her, she has had a tattoo scribbled on her right breast. A small portion was visible under her very low cut blouse.

    Her: How are you today…Blaximus?

    Me: I’m good. I got approved for my stair lift, so I’m feeling pretty swell today.

    Her: What can I do for you today?

    Me: I need 50 dollars in quarters.

    Her: 50 in…quarters?

    Me: Yeah. You heard of ” making it rain in the club ” right? Well I’m gonna make it hail in that bitch.

    Her: * covers her mouth laughing* You really want 50 in quarters?

    Me: * faking sign language * 50 in quarters. Hey, waitaminute…come closer for a sec. That’s new ( pointing to her tat ), what does it say?

    Her: I wore the wrong blouse today.

    Me: Why would you tattoo that on your breast?

    Her: What?

    Me: Why would you tattoo ” I wore the wrong blouse ” on your titty…er.. um .. I mean breast?

    Her: * laughing * Noooo, it’s says ” love me “.

    Nosey teller next to her: She has a boyfriend…

    Me: I’m sorry ( in my best Samuel Jackson ) was I talking to you? You’re welcome to just interrupt a private conversation if you tell me what your tattoo says.

    Nosey teller: That’s private.

    Me: Like this conversation? Ohhh, okay. So, what does your boyfriend think of the tat?

    Her: He…

    Me: You know what? Who gives a shit what he thinks. Why ” love me “? What’s that supposed to mean?

    Her: Well, it’s kind of personal.

    Me: So you put it on your breast and wear a low cut blouse… by accident or whatever… you know what? Gimmee my quarters.

    Her: I’ll tell you but you won’t understand.

    Me: Oh, so now I’m mentally challenged? Tell you what.. what time do you get a break?

    Her: 11:30, why?

    Me: Maybe if I get time to kill, I’ll take you across the street to the dunkin donuts and you can enlighten me about your choice of tat.

    Nosey teller: She has a boyfriend…

    Me: Is she your lawyer or something?

    Her: There’s nothing wrong with him buying me a cup of coffee and having a chat…

    Me: Whoa!! Whoa!!!, what’s all this ” him buying me coffee ” shit? Dutch baby girl.

    Nosey teller: She’s only 22 years old. How old are you?

    Me: I’m old enough to be her father. That’s why I call her ” baby girl “. After we have coffee, I’m going to burp her.

    Nosey Teller: Well, her boyfriend won’t like it.

    Me: That’s why nobody’s talking about him except you. You in love with her man or something? You’re mighty concerned with his feelings.

    Her: Lol. I’m off on Fridays.

    Nosey teller: Watch him. He’s not right.

    Me: Be nice to me or I’ll throw a roll of quarters at you.

    Her: Bye Blaximus.

    Nosey teller: Don’t you think…

    Me: Hold that though sweetie –

    Exit stage right.

    Btw, the nosey teller was maybe a 6 under the makeup that camouflaged her into a possible 7. Her eyelashes though… they looked like tarantulas glued to her eyelids.

    I dig interacting with women, and the FI can suck a big bowl of dicks. I know, I know, it might backfire on my ass if I run into Miss Feminism 2017, but I might be able to talk my way out of trouble. If not, I’ll be posting here a lot more as I’ll have plenty of free time on my hands.

    Always look on the bright side.

  60. Blaximus

    “That’s why nobody’s talking about him except you. You in love with her man or something? You’re mighty concerned with his feelings.”

    Great call for a cockblocker.

    Stopped for gas today, the pump took my card and said reciept inside,tried to pump and nothing happened. Reinserted card then it asked for zip, everything worked. While it was filling went in to drain the main vein and get a drink. The clerk an early twenties brunet 7 gave me a big smile, and I asked her about the pump,she said it is a com glitch with the computer in the store and happens all day long. I told her I just thought it was horny, cuz I had to slide it in twice. This got her laughing and said she was going to steal it and use it the rest of the day,except for on the old women cuz they don’t think that’s funny. I say only when you tell it,they all like me.

    Why worry about it, to many people paying to much attention to shit that doesn’t even matter. Probably most of them freak out and give her a hard time.

  61. @ boulderhead

    I’d love to tell guys that they should just say whatever they want to, because that’s what I do, but I get that this could be very deadly in today’s climate, and if ” saying whatever ” isn’t congruent with who you are or your personality, skip it totally to be safe – or practice it on friendly people you know. I’ve always been encouraged to speak my mind and say what I mean, even as a kid, so maybe what I believe and think is just anachronistic.

    It’s awful because it dulls society’s ability to engage with substance.

  62. @Blaximus

    “so maybe what I believe and think is just anachronistic.”

    No most folks have either forgotten how to interact in person or never learned. The preferred method of communication is through buffers. When people make a living interacting with the public, it is refreshing to meet someone that knows how to socialize with light banter.

    Original material is presented with authenticity and taken well if presented well. People need people to survive, this will never be outdated.

  63. “Btw, the nosey teller was maybe a 6 under the makeup that camouflaged her into a possible 7. Her eyelashes though… they looked like tarantulas glued to her eyelids.”

    Funny it seems the homely ones are more apt to cockblock even when not warranted. It is as if, if she’s not getting it nobody else is going to either.

  64. Razorwire,

    Phenomenonal comments. Do you have a blog? Just curious, did you used to post under a username that started with T. Your colorful prose with economic references reminds me of one of my favorite commenters from years past.

  65. Blaximus,

    I loved reading that exchange. That is absolute top notch cocky funny banter. I’m working to get back to that. I feel like a guy who stopped working out for several years after 20 years of consistent workouts. The muscle memory is still there but it is going to take time to get back into condition. Right now, my mind simply doesn’t think that fast regarding banter.

  66. Last week I got linked a Tweet about ‘creeps’ by Roosh (he still hates me). He had a good point, and I paraphrase,

    “Creeps are just guys that go from 0-100 in sexualizing a conversation with a woman way too fast. A good PUA knows that slow and steady sexualization works best.”

    Ahhh Roosh. I kinda like the guy. He tries so hard.

    But clueless, and he doesn’t seem to have the ability to think outside his tiny mental box.

    He definitely has the “geek” mindset … the kind of guy with a compulsion to break everything in like down to a single categorizing, deterministic “factor.”

    Trite, misguided concept no. 1: “Creeps are just guys that go from 0-100 in sexualizing a conversation with a woman way too fast.”

    Wrong Mr. Valizadeh. A guy who sexualizes a conversation too fast will come off as creepy, but it’s not just that kind of guy.

    Trite, misguided concept no. 2: “A good PUA knows that slow and steady sexualization works best.”

    Bullshit Mr. Valizadeh. A good PUA knows that slow and steady sexualization works best sometimes, and other times slow and steay will lose the lay. Sometimes what is need is massive, instant escalation.

    In other words, the best PUAs have learned the subtle, vitally important art of *calibration* not some rigid theory about always going slow.

    I suspect this is why Roosh fails so spectacularly in some places. This is the guy who famously declared that Toronto was the worst place for pickup, and he didn’t manage to close any girls there.

    But Mr. Valizadeh … Toronto is where Mystery first developed his skills, and people went out with him in Toronto can tell you that back in his prime it wasn’t a question of “whether” Mystery would go home with a girl, it was a question of “who” he would go home with.

    So what’s the difference?

    Rollo hints at this:

    Take that how you want, but I think this is definitely part of the creep dynamic. There’s a bit more to being creepy than overly fast sexualization (or presumed familiarity); we’ve got to account for a Blue Pill / Beta guy’s lack of social intelligence to understand that taking it slow should be something he knows already. And still, how can we presume this slow and steady sexualization is a proficient form of seduction when we see more Alpha, more immediately arousing men, go from 0-100 themselves and get a same night lay?

    This is one kind of calibration.

    Rollo, have you done any posts on this subject?

    Calibration is one of the Keys to the Kingdom, especially for hardcases.

  67. Razorwire

    A thoroughly summation of a thoroughly horrible situation. Who’d be a beta? (many of us growing up)

    It’s getting increasing ridiculous the amount of newbies who are using these debates to hand out advice (bless em) on “how not to be a creep” – thanks but this is The Rational Male, we “get it” these days at least.

  68. Blax: “…after we have coffee, I’m going to burp her.”

    Nearly spit my coffee on my iPad. I’m 54…just might have to steal that line.

  69. The High Court of Australia last week essentially ruled that binding prenuptial agreements aren’t binding if there’s some sort of leverage or pressure involved.

    The rich, old (65+) geezer flew in a young, poor, Eastern European woman (<25) from the Middle East. After a few months, they're engaged to marry. Two weeks before the wedding, he asks her to sign a prenup (pretty shitty deal by all accounts). She gets independent legal advice; her lawyer tells her the deal is shit. She signs anyway. They get married. He asks her to sign the same deal a couple of months later. She does. To cut a long story short, the High Court sets it aside because she felt she had no choice but to sign both times (well, she did, but her other choice looked even shittier than the deal). However, the marriage which relied on the prenup being signed didn't get put aside, did it?

    "Where is he going with this?" you ask. Men have known for a long time that prenups aren't worth the toilet paper they're written on.

    There's been talk here (and elsewhere) of "sugaring" being the next evolution of men being able to be in control of their relationships with women.

    Really? Do you think any commercial arrangements with a sugar baby, no matter how clearly spelling out the terms, will not be set aside by some court that decides "actually, it was a de facto or common law relationship" (especially if the sugar daddy is providing her a place to stay)? Or that, if she isn't entitled to a divorce-like settlement from the sugar daddy, that at the very least she is entitled to a severance package?

    Good luck with that.

  70. It is going to be interesting to see what the true consequences of this sexual misconduct hysteria and more draconian anti-Beta laws does to American society.

    Rollo mentioned that one of the outcomes is a sexless Beta majority moving forward.

    My thought is the top 20% of the male population are Alphas/Sigmas.
    60% Betas
    10%Omegas
    10% Gammas

    The evidence is piling up to back Rollo’s assertion, not one Hollywood sex icon/natural alpha has been accused of rape, groping, or sexual harassment. Its been betas, omegas, and gammas who hide in plain sight as ‘male feminists’ that are receiving their comeuppance. They thought when they were financially propositioning those women for sex; it was a mutual exchange: pay for play, play for access (which it should have logically been). Yet, they are learning that most women will NEVER be held accountable for any actions or decisions, no matter what; it is always someone else’s fault. Hence, a new idea of ‘post-wall’ revenge is being introduced into the public discourse and even in the laws as state’s like California drop statute of limitations laws.

    So, we are going to see if Tomassi’s theory of the ‘male feminist’ getting his public lashing in due time applies to even the most vocal male feminist rape hysterist Mr. Joe Biden, former VP of USA. This guy seems really pedo like and touchy feely with young women in some footage I’ve viewed; seems like he could be next. I think the world of the Beta on the sexual front is going to be very lonely indeed for the next decade. Yet, it is going to be a pussy frenzy for select males…

    What will the state of marriage, child rearing and the relations between the sexes be like in 5-7 years from now?

  71. Ah the world of unintended consequences, not only are women denied mentorship due to the potential for sexual harassment claims behind closed doors but now they can be denied life saving hands on experiences.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/11/14/women-will-consent-to-life-saving-first-aid-teitel.html

    Synopsis for those that don’t want to read it. Women are less likely to be given CPR by strangers than men in emergency situations.

    Subtext, you got what you want feminists, you said don’t touch you without your permission, well there ya go. Of course they want it both ways, “please touch me if I am dying, we’ll sort out if you’re a creep after the fact”

  72. @Morpheus

    “Right now, my mind simply doesn’t think that fast regarding banter.”

    I’m pretty happy go lucky,get the IOI start to socialize, then just as she is getting into it and wanting more I decide the juice isn’t worth the squeeze and shut it down. Leaving them standing there wondering what is wrong.

  73. Rollo said:

    We live in a new era where marriage has become disincentivized for men by the risks of capital loss in divorce that overwhelmingly favors women with cash & prizes. Now add to this the increasing ego entitlements of women to high-value men. As the prospect of marriage looks less and less like a good deal for men wanting to protect themselves there comes a need for women to create ways to bypass the requirement for marriage to access men’s capital.

    One of the things that I tell young men when they talk about moving in with a girl is to explain to them the concept of the micro divorce. I live in a very expensive city by North American standards and it’s common to see women moving in with their boyfriends in part, (although they don’t tell the poor schlubs this) because they simply can’t afford to live in the city by themselves. Some of the women work, more than a few don’t. The relationship ends and, like a divorce, the man leaves with his clothes, tools and whatever else she had no actual use for and she stays in the apartment with all of the stuff that they bought together that she badgered him into buying. Usually, they wind up getting a roommate to replace the boyfriend but of course, the roommate has irritating ideas like paying half of the rent, paying it on time and not eating their food. They begin the hunt for a new boyfriend and rinse and repeat the whole process all over again.

    On another note, what did I do about #metoo?

    I searched the string among my ‘friends’ on Facebook and unfriended a half a dozen or so that had posted it. So why did I do this? Well, social networks need vectors for their message to spread. I can’t change Facebook and to argue about it is pointless so the best I can do is make those people persona non grata. I also quit posting to Facebook and now only use the messaging. As I see it, at some point in the future, #metoo will turn into an intensely personal variant with women flat out accusing men they know on social media platforms.

    As far as the dating sites I left them because what’s the most valuable thing I give them? Validation. Every time they see that I’ve looked at their profile matched them or sent them a message they get a little validation cookie that makes them that much harder to deal with in the real world. Will any of them notice? Nope, not a one, it does, however, make me feel better.

  74. ” . . . not one Hollywood sex icon/natural alpha has been accused of rape, groping, or sexual harassment.”

    You’re so vain, you probably think this song is about you.

  75. 3 things of note to me:

    1) Nobody I’ve seen accused publicly thus far has impressed me as the kind who’d be regarded as an alpha without their celebrity status or power. Seeing Louis CK, Weinstein, and even Spacey get attacked has been utterly unsurprising. Now if RDJ or somebody like that shows up on the list I’d be surprised. Clearly a lot of this looks like the “regret is rape” dynamic.

    2) Speaking of public accusations, where are the police reports? Not to say I stand behind Hollywood’s sleazy elite, but as always I give people who go to the attempt to socially ostracize before the police a good long side eye.

    3) I have gone within 5 minutes from not knowing a woman to her wanting the bang. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes not, but always in a situation where my SMV outclassed any other guy she’d run in to that day. One of the even tried to use an unfortunate socially awkward friend of mine in a gambit against me right before she jumped forward and started making out with me after a couple minutes of banter. Creepy is largely about SMV followed closely by a lack of “just get it” in my experience, even in the right sexual zone.

  76. The #metoo bullshit is just so precious. My step daughter was a huge cock hound when she was a teenager. I had to nail her bedroom window shut so she wouldn’t sneak out to fuck her boyfriends. When the #metoo shit started up, she was front and center on her FB page, blaming everyone but herself for her lack of sexual self control when she was a teenager.

    She had inappropriate relationships with older men that we put a stop to when we found out. I threatened more than one over age boy/man with jail to chase them off and she blamed both sets of parents in her post for “allowing” it to happen.

  77. Morpheus
    Right now, my mind simply doesn’t think that fast regarding banter.

    For some, banter comes naturally. For others it’s a learned skill. I know a high-performing autist and talking with him sometimes is like interacting with a rule-based AI: there’s a definite “processing…” pause between a casual joke and his laughter (“That is a joke! Jaha!”).

    For the rest of us, we get better at bantering by bantering. Engage everyone you meet. Be self amusing. This is stuff that used to be taught by example: “Uncle Joe tells the best stories”. Not so much in modern disconnecto-world. Doubly so in situations where men are scarce single / frivorced mothers.

    Be the Nike swoosh of banter. Just do it.

  78. @sgtted

    Hey, “it just happened to her”, right?

    I sympathize with you, because I’ve heard and seen similar stories from former co-workers.
    Some folks are just born a bit wilder than the rest of us.

  79. “When people make a living interacting with the public, it is refreshing to meet someone that knows how to socialize with light banter.”

    and that’s why guys learning/working/refining game need to understand NOT to fucking cross the line with women who are paid to interact with you…

    like bank tellers. Blax’s exchange would be welcomed by my wife, because he knows what he’s doing and he’s making her day a little bit more fun and most importantly she can fucking RELAX around dialed in guys like him.

    when my wife was public facing for work, a day didn’t go by where guys and honestly a shitload of women failed to comment totally inapporpriately about her looks or figure. people would get very specific about shit like her “perfect” teeth or her “sparkling” eyes (things she could not cover and or obscure with her selective, conservative clothing choices)

    guys would take her polite, employee-in-a-work-environment vibe as something much more sexual than it was, especially when they proceeded to talk about her fucking body, which by the way, she did much to conceal with too baggy clothes as a way to avoid the “creepy” (read uncomfortable) shit that was going to happen at work anyway

    in short, the ratio of “creepy” interactions to normal pleasant social interactions for an attractive young woman in a customer service position these days is much worse as a retail cashier than as a stripper

    and it’s fucked up, because these guys hitting on my wife and those like her are definitely barking up the right trees. big time. their porn star radar is tight because underneath the conservative clothing is exactly what they are hoping. but the problem is these hbs have been gamed hard and if a guy is going to make an impression, he needs to bring some heavy artillery

    if you see a piece of ass with a wedding ring in a work capacity who looks like she just got her brains fucked out….. she probably did. understand that if she doesn’t give off legit ioi’s that stand out as obvious because she is at work, don’t fucking get sexual with the banter and don’t comment on her appearance because you’re embarrassing yourself and her

    performers don’t typically book public gigs before they’ve practiced their sets in private. aka go to the fucking club and open a hundred girls. don’t go to the mall like pua hank and hit on the fucking clerks. or do. because that just makes guys who know what they’re doing look even better and maybe you’ll get lucky with that scattershot approach and I doubt that I’ll ever be gaming a girl who went home after her shift at claire’s with hank

    maybe part of the problem is that women are doing most of their socializing at work. they say work is a “no sex” zone or whatever they call it, but underneath that “professional” veneer they are still hoping that mr. right shows up and sits in her section and it’s “fate”. aka “I only want hawt guys hitting on me at work”

    two sets of rules. what could be more girly? maybe a sleepover tickle fight

    this is a great time to be waking up to the red pill. guys doing it now are still at the leading edge. many gains to be had in the coming years. now is the time to prepare

    just don’t do it on the bank teller unless you’re neck deep in wet pussy already. or do because you’re a man and no one dictates your behavior but you. there are endless stories of guys pulling at work and pulling girls who are on the clock. either way, game on, because there is nothing more fun than going back into the matrix fully awake and knowing “balls to bones” that….

    “they’re just girls”

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