The Creep – Part 2

Just so we’re clear here, yes, I get that there are a lot of ways to take the term ‘creepy’. In last week’s essay I wanted to dig into what women claim is ‘creepy’ and how this term is really another illustration of ambiguous fem-speak rooted in how a guy makes a woman feel. Furthermore, this feeling is modified by where that man is stationed in her perception of his sexual market value (SMV).

Last week I got linked a Tweet about ‘creeps’ by Roosh (he still hates me). He had a good point, and I paraphrase,

“Creeps are just guys that go from 0-100 in sexualizing a conversation with a woman way too fast. A good PUA knows that slow and steady sexualization works best.”

Take that how you want, but I think this is definitely part of the creep dynamic. There’s a bit more to being creepy than overly fast sexualization (or presumed familiarity); we’ve got to account for a Blue Pill / Beta guy’s lack of social intelligence to understand that taking it slow should be something he knows already. And still, how can we presume this slow and steady sexualization is a proficient form of seduction when we see more Alpha, more immediately arousing men, go from 0-100 themselves and get a same night lay? I’ve done this myself more than a few times back in a time when there was no formal Game to be had. Right guy, right place, right time, and 0-100 is what a woman is hoping will happen. Hypergamy is nothing if not pragmatic.

That said, I am convinced that this over-investment, too quick, too soon is definitely part of the creepy dynamic. I’ve made the call in several prior posts that it’s part of the Beta mindset to want to bypass the arousal and attraction phases of seduction to go directly to rapport. Thus, you get a guy who shares too much way too soon and this itself is creepy for women. It’s a huge telegraphing of that guy’s state of desperation and optionlessness. There’s no mystery left about the guy (assuming the girl even had an initial attraction) and nothing left to figure out. This over-sharing is also a huge red flag to women’s Hypergamous filters; it’s an indication that a guy ‘doesn’t get it’ with regard to how to play the Game with her.

You see, this rush to get to comfort and rapport is usually because that ‘creep’ is anxious to get past the arousal phase, the sexual tension, because he has no clue what to do in that phase. It’s a real source of anxiety for him, and besides, every woman he’s ever asked has said she needed to be comfortable with a guy before she has sex with him (false). Comfort, rapport, familiarity (all of which are anti-seductive) should be where the sex begins to his way of thinking, so again, male deductive logic would follow that getting there quickly would be pragmatic.

When a more Alpha, natural, moves quickly it’s almost always because he’s working with a receptive (proceptive) woman. As I mentioned before, arousal covers for a lot of men’s deficits in Game or feelings of creepery.

The Creeps

As most readers will have probably guessed I’ve timed the release of this series to address the current Hysteria of sexual assault / harassment / rape charges that are  moving like wildfire through Hollywood first, and now through the rest of our pop-culture social strata. While it may be satisfying to see mealy-mouth self-righteous actors and moguls take a fall, it’s important to see the larger social mechanics in play here.

I wrote that essay over a year ago and I’ll say now that I’d never dreamed how prophetic that post would turn out. Criticizing this #MeToo sexual assault hysteria is next to impossible. For the same reasons no one wanted to question the veracity of the UVA fraternity rape hoax that Rolling Stone and Sabrina Erdley perpetrated – no one now wants to question the accusations leveled at the various personalities being conveniently outed for sexual assault/harassment that in some cases occurred 30-40 years ago. We are expected to believe the testimonies of women without question.

This isn’t to say that the celebrities involved didn’t do what their accusers are saying they did, it’s that we are expected to accept that this behavior is endemic in all men, and based on the same principle of believing whatever a woman has to say about it with no afterthought given to its truth or her motives. It’s one thing to presume that whenever a woman comes forward with a rape or assault claim we are expected to presume the man guilty until proven innocent, but we’re rapidly reaching a point where any claim a woman has about a man bears that same weight. When it comes down to ‘he said, she said’, what she said will hold the full weight of the law.

Our Feminine-primary social order is now repurposing this ironclad believability of women – and presumed guilt of men – for every crime a woman ‘feels’ she’s been a victim of at the hands of a man. At the same time we see sexual harassment being defined as something that even a wink from a man can convey, we also see the rapid criminalization of men  who would dare to talk to a woman they don’t already know.

When we combine this overarching presumption of male guilt with the potential crime of men dealing with a woman with the intent of establish intimacy, and then add to it the ever changing definition of what can constitute sexual assault or harassment (and with a uniquely endless statute of limitations), we begin to get a clearer picture of the direction the Feminine Imperative has for men.

I’m sure this all seems very reactionary, but so was the questioning of Sabrina Erdley’s story about a nameless girl who was violently raped on the shattered glass of a broken coffee table by fraternity boys. Once again, I’m not saying sexual assault doesn’t happen, I’m saying that the direction gynocentrism is taking is one in which men ought to lose rights and liberties that only women ought to be the judges of.

Creepiness is a feeling women get from men who lack the social skills to ‘just get it’ that they are or aren’t into them. What this distills down to on a root level is women’s presuming that men should know better than to approach them when they are beneath their Hypergamous attraction floor. It is the criminalization of men not understanding how they fit into women’s sexual strategies. I made a case for this in The Political is Personal. The more men resist the social intents of Hypergamy, the more it will become necessary to legislate men to comply with it.

Feminine-primary social doctrine is an extension of  women’s Hypergamy.

Any deviation from this is on the part of  men is met with a cultural reprisal designed to convince or coerce men to accept their inevitable role in providing those entitlements to women. When those social contingencies fail, or become played out, the Feminine Imperative then appeals to legal legislation to mandate men’s compliance to what amounts to women’s social entitlement to optimized Hypergamy.

We’re rapidly reaching this peak Hypergamous state. As I mentioned in Male Control, since the Las Vegas shooting the narrative of masculinity has shifted. There is no more “toxic” masculinity – it’s masculinity on-whole that is toxic. As Open Hypergamy becomes more institutionalized and made a societal norm by the Feminine Imperative, and as more men become Red Pill aware (by effort or consequences) because of it, the more necessary it will become for a feminine-primary social order to legislate and mandate men comply with it.

In the Zone

Morpheus had a great comment last week that hit on what I went into in Sexual Zoning:

The term “creep” can really lead in a bunch of different directions discussion wise, but I think a really big one is “sexual zones” vs “non-sexual zones”. Increasingly, there are all sorts of places where the default presumption is that women should be “free from” male advances. Work, school, etc. In these zones, the margin for error is very small. Unless you are an objectively visually attractive man with super tight game, the odds of you being perceived as a “creep” are much, much higher. In sexual zones, such as the Friday night bar, your margin for error is higher. The default presumption is men are there to meet women. You still need to have the right social vibe and not come across as a weirdo but you have a little more room to play with.

And from that post:

I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.

A while ago I read this piece about Mike Pence:

“In 2002, Mike Pence told The Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.”

Naturally the media wants to pass this off as some masculine insecurity on Pence’s part. Certainly there’s a religious reason for Pence not wanting to present any perception of impropriety – I’ve know pastor who will never have closed door meetings with women or do counseling for women without their wives present – but there is a practical side to this habit. It prevents the accusations and opportunity for anything like what we’re seeing in the accusation cycling through Hollywood today. But still, shaming the masculine is the first reflex for the mainstream media.

This Atlantic article is an exercise in deliberately not seeing the intersexual writing on the wall. This is the practical contingency for a social order bent on removing men via accusations of sexual misconduct. Yet still, for all of the inherent dangers of a frivolous sexual harassment suit at the disposal of any and every western woman, men are supposed to leave themselves vulnerable to them:

Pence is not the only powerful man in Washington who goes to great lengths to avoid the appearance of impropriety with the opposite sex. An anonymous survey of female Capitol Hill staffers conducted by National Journal in 2015 found that “several female aides reported that they have been barred from staffing their male bosses at evening events, driving alone with their congressman or senator, or even sitting down one-on-one in his office for fear that others would get the wrong impression.” One told the reporter Sarah Mimms that in 12 years working for her previous boss, he “never took a closed door meeting with me. … This made sensitive and strategic discussions extremely difficult.”

This is the social environment feminism and our gynocentric social order has chosen to establish for men and women. Men pragmatically look for ways to guard themselves against allegation, and yet are shamed for that sensibility. It’s gotten (or will get) to the point where old books “decent” behavior is too risky to engage in in the modern workplace. Powerful men must hide behind open doors, and still those men are shamed for being prudent. Why?

We live in a new era where marriage has become disincentivized for men by the risks of capital loss in divorce that overwhelmingly favors women with cash & prizes. Now add to this the increasing ego entitlements of women to high value men. As the prospect of marriage looks less and less like a good deal for men wanting to protect themselves there comes a need for women to create ways to bypass the requirement for marriage to access men’s capital. Enter the era of increasingly more nebulous, acrimonious, accusations of sexual harassment or assault and de facto believability of women’s testimony. Exit the era of frivolous divorce (okay maybe not entirely) and enter the era of more easily accessible capital via frivolous sexual assault lawsuits.

More to come in part 3.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

535 comments on “The Creep – Part 2

  1. @rugby
    Thanks for the great video selection, especially the male experience series. I wish I could watch all of them if it was not for the time constraints. I am in awe how you manage to watch all of them.

  2. Not sure if this is relevant but from the female and male side (Not sure about “news” sources
    but wondering if a female start’s something how does the male cope passed it without being a creep”)

    haven’t seen all the videos

  3. @ Novaseeker

    I’m right in the middle of watching boys grow into men. I see them, their friends IRT education enforcing the FI narrative.

    Sexual equality is the last thing on their minds. The girls play games no different than I experienced 30 years ago. They haven’t evolved, they’ve devolved. The boys, now, have unimaginable Game resources and are using them.

    Young guys with game have a strong FI defense. They’re not falling for frustrating LJBF, other Betaization tactics.

    MGTOW will increase. Not my preference, but better that than knuckling under.

    I’m with Sentient. Alpha up.

  4. Good stuff Rugby… That Systema clip is great.

    [Note – it is not about fighting if you haven’t viewed it, it’s a narrative of rebirth, regeneration]

  5. @Rugby -Cheupez:

    Spetnaz made a great bunch of videos before he essentially went dark and I’ve watched them all, but the later ones with less enthusiasm than the earlier, because they are all essentially stuck in the pain of having the red pill forcefully stuffed down your throat.

    They describe that state wonderfully, but they offer very little of where to go from there.

    And where to go is, like it or not, alpha up or lose. There is no way out. It is not a social construct. It is a construct of life itself. Winners reproduce, losers die out, and even the winners end up squashed like a bug on the windshield of the universe in the end.

    And that’s just the way it is. Life is hard, but it’s harder if you refuse to reconcile with it.

  6. “… That Systema clip is great.”

    Yes, that’s the one, and I assume he went dark because he’s working on his rebirth now. I still check his channel now and again, because I want to see what he might produce after he is reborn.

  7. Thanks, Rugby for the nod. Glad you liked the slideshow.

    I need to go back and read this entire post and comments. It is a topic I will get into in at least one book chapter. I have some ideas about shifting social norms and spectrum/introversion. (Read: “Creeps”)

    From a clinicians perspective, after swallowing the red pill, it is difficult to “unsee” the inherent problems with regarding non-normative behavior as psychopathology by definition.

  8. @Scott

    “From a clinicians perspective, after swallowing the red pill, it is difficult to “unsee” the inherent problems with regarding non-normative behavior as psychopathology by definition.”

    Care to give an example for this statement … in laymen’s terms? I think I understand but want to make sure.

  9. From my perspective, the guys most often labeled a “creep” are those with poor social awareness and/or men who those women see as offering no real value to them.
    Now in my mid 40’s, I can see things that would never have registered for a 20yr old version of me. I often think “how did I miss this before?”. My focus now is almost entirely on body language. A woman can consistently lie with what she says, but she (anyone really) can’t consistently lie with their body language. Any guy not well versed in reading the various signs of interest, or a lack of, needs to spend some time studying the basics. It seems simple now.
    One of the major mistakes I see guys make, is escalating too quickly. Touching, and sexualizing around a woman who isn’t into you, or is unsure of your value, is a great way to be labeled a creep. How many times have you seen a guy double down on an approach that isn’t working, and consequently become known as a “creeper”? A good number of men get into “pursuit” mode, and completely fuck up their chances by being overzealous.

  10. During work, the women I’m around are like furniture – I can appreciate it’s appearance, and what it contributes, but I would never compliment a chair any more than I would a woman I work with And they are non-sexual creatures – doesn’t matter if they are at work or not. I keep my work and sex lives separate in the US, in other countries the line is more blurred depending on where I am.

    When I am at a gig – all of the women are for sex if they come back after a show. I’;m not going to work with them, and there are lots of people around till we are in my room, and one of the first things we do when arriving is set up a camera on the bed – it may not be nice, but more than one of us have been helped by having a record of what occurred. Hard to say it wasn’t consensual when she is bouncing up and down on you like riding a bronco – but some of them have tried. Women often rewrite history according to their situation – so never believe what a woman says without proof. I’ve seen too many have sex with a guy to get back at another, then feel bad about it and suddenly she was “raped”..

    Women lie. Period..

    1. “Women often rewrite history according to their situation – so never believe what a woman says without proof.”

      YUP. THIS! I’m relearning this one as I see a 10+ year relationship that was mostly good especially the early years (before she went peri-menopausal) be recast as some “abusive” nightmare she “survived”. It is so surreally absurd.

  11. ” Women lie. Period..”

    They do. They try. If you can read them, their attempts become as tissue paper though.

    And if men realize that women ” lie “, then take what they say with a grain of salt ( or a dump truck load ).

    Doesn’t make them bad people, lol.

  12. Defining Alpha for human’s is a fool’s errand because it doesn’t exist in a real way in human behavior. The alpha model in pack animals is specific to a pack’s social order. And even then, say in wolves, an alpha pack leader can be a female wolf. Human psychological/emotional and social order cannot be reduced to pack behavior. So first things first, be very careful when using this term.

    In humans Alpha simply means social dominance. A socially dominant man gets noticed when he walks into a room. Social dominance is defacto acknowledged. Now one can achieve social dominance by being violent or constantly having the threat of violence lurking behind your words, sure, that makes you an alpha. But also a scumbag – you know, the thugs and assholes @Blax talks about being in prison and graveyards, which is exactly where they belong. Now if we could just lock the rest of them up from say Chicago, Blax wouldn’t be asked any more questions about why blacks shoot each other up at alarming rates. But I digress..

    Social dominance is only part of one’s SMV. And for humans, social dominance is about much more than being an asshole or dominating every conversation. A socially intelligent man can dominate without actually saying much, or “winning” any particular contest of wills or social dominance in the moment. We exist in many social groups and the socially intelligent Alpha man ends up leading or being influential in all of them. Where as the socially retarded man’s attempts at social dominance don’t work and while people may tolerate the asshole when he’s in the room, his social standing isn’t what he thinks if he achieves his dominance via mere bullying.

    Real social dominance is when people willingly submit to you. Same with women. Listen, Alpha is either born or formed very young in men. And even then, a man has to carefully develop his social intelligence and “stay within himself”, as Roger “The Rocket” Clemens used to talk about. Alpha men don’t have crises of confidence when they are insulted, or a woman acts out.

    **Test for All Betas Here Desperately Hoping for an Alpha Conversion (hint, Alphas don’t hope for any kind of conversion)**

    Does a woman want to fuck, or does she want to be fucked? Answer’s pretty obvious, but how many of you guys knew that before I asked? Women want to be fucked. They want to be seduced. They want to lose themselves in passion to some alpha dog dream (which you may not even really match up with, lol). They want to be overcome with lust. And they want to be pounded. Every last one of them. None of them want it slow, none of them want it gentle. Their all dirty sluts, and they all have their secrets. They just usually don’t “tell” on the Alpha dogs because they remember that with pleasure. The regret comes when they feel like they’ve been duped or banged a man with too low value for their perceived SMV. YaReally used to talk about how to avoid regret by buying an Egg McMuffin for breakfast the next morning, which is much cheaper than a rape charge.

    But please, carry on assuming these charges are all fictional – even as most of the men accused don’t deny them. And sure, maybe a Simmons was falsely accused, he can work all that out, I don’t give a shit But getting ratted out by star-fuckers is an occupational hazard. Ya, it’s easier than actually picking up a woman and seducing her, but it does have its costs.

    Last. Get cause and effect right. We were already a million miles down a femcentric social order path. #Metoo is a symptom, not a cause. It will only feed the frenzy of those who were already in a frenzy. And hey, they are taking out leftist scumbags nonstop, so I couldn’t be happier. I hope Louis CK had all his money wrapped up in that shitty movie he was just about to release and is broke, and can never get a comedy gig again. I’d love to see him in Starbucks pouring me a latte. His entire schtick was male shaming from start to finish, one could easily call him a gender-traitor, if we were keeping score that way. Barista seems just about up to his skill level…

  13. “Doesn’t make them bad people, lol.”
    “Real social dominance is when people willingly submit to you. Same with women. Listen, Alpha is either born or formed very young in men. And even then, a man has to carefully develop his social intelligence and “stay within himself”, as Roger “The Rocket” Clemens used to talk about. Alpha men don’t have crises of confidence when they are insulted, or a woman acts out.”
    Gold truth to the core…

    1. If you game your ex, you probably will see her recollections turn more positive.

      LOL, not likely, as I received an e-mail from her attorney to not contact her further in any way unless I want harassment charges filed or an order of protection issued, and a law enforcement friend informed me these are pretty much universally issued at a woman’s request for any and all reasons.

      Although I came out just fine financially my ex acted like a petulant toddler throughout the proceedings process. She delayed her half of certain payments just to fuck with me, delayed responding to texts about simple business matters just to annoy me. Her last moves were to avoid answering some necessary questions on a tax liability, and some of my personal property going missing after she picked up her stuff as I didn’t think to supervise her every second of packing.

      Now my ex was an insecure person about a great number of things and I obviously knew them all. So I wrote her an e-mail where I hammered every single insecurity to the gazillionth degree because I was frustrated with the nonstop bullshit. Apparently, this brought her to tears, and within a few days her attorney had indicated no further contact with her unless I wanted legal action against me.

      Anyways, TBH, Game isn’t a magical pill that can solve every situation and circumstance. She has a sister who is an evil witch and I suspect may actually be a psychopath. She was the one to first bring up legal options regarding the e-mail I sent, and I am certain she influenced her decision to end the marriage. Even if I could contact her, a few witty one-liners, banter, and frame isn’t going to overcome hours and hours and hours of time spent with someone who is hellbent on persuading her how horrible I was.

      One important point, and I’ve learned this twice now. When you marry a woman, you do marry her family as well so you have to be on guard for family members who have the potential to cause trouble for you. I always knew something was “off” with the sister, but I never considered she would actively try to blow up the marriage.

  14. Mr. Roboto,

    Great post there, and spot on. Here is the “scarier” part about the whole women’s emotional state and how you react to it. Because of my ex-wife’s accusations and me trying to genuinely understand what the hell she is talking about I’ve spent some time reading about “emotional abuse” and alot of it is complete horsecrap intended to vilify the man and portray the woman always as the righteous “victim”.

    Do you know what one of the things considered “emotional abuse” is?….Invalidating emotions. So in other words, if the woman feels a certain way, and you try to logically explain why she shouldn’t feel that way, you are invalidating her emotions and actually “abusing” her. Very nutty shit. But there is an entire community with a ton of YouTube channels selling this garbage. In fact, one of the YouTube channels is from some kooky woman who spent some time criticizing Sphere sites and was actually a troll commenter at one time.

  15. @Morpheus

    Game is more than Frame and witty one-liners. I recall scrib saying that his situation had speshul snowflake status, yet here he is a couple of years later saying that his daughter is just another girl and now they get along Ok…(he implies “because game”, lol)…

    You’re a clever guy. I’m sure you can figure out some way to use Preselection to game your ex without you saying a single word or even being near her and getting her to come to you on your terms. You might want to get a restraining order against your ex to make your point so that she has to go thru your atty. to communicate with you. Don’t be butthurt when your ex shit tests you, which she obviously has been doing. Just laugh at her tests and don’t let her trigger you.

    I’m not saying that you don’t have work to do on yourself. I’m sure you do. You know that you need to hear this.

  16. This isn’t a quote from Taylor Swift duc. None of the things you’re claiming she’s said are true. What is wrong with you? What enjoyment do you receive out of spreading false information? cbu ALL White people are fcking racist PEDOPHILES pcj i will kill white people, you are all racist this is SEWER 2154 kokpo

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