Men and Suicide

Before I launch in here today I need to confess that this post has been in my drafts folder for a while now. As most of my readers are aware I’ve known two personal friends who’ve taken their own lives as a result of having their Blue Pill conditioned beliefs set them on a path to self destruction. One of the more important parts of my charter when I started writing was to reach the men who were at their wits’ end in figuring out how to deal with their personal, romantic or married lives that had until then been directed by what their Blue Pill acculturation and their understanding of intersexual dynamics were molded to be. Since I started and stopped and then restarted this topic again there have been a few recent developments in my perspective on men taking their own lives as a result of the Blue Pill’s influence on them.

All of this really began about two months ago while I was engaging in a debate (or what passes for debate) on Twitter with a very unsympathetic woman who thought she’d set me straight about why it is men choose to take their own lives at a far greater rate than women. As it stands today, men are statistically between 4 and 5 times more likely than women to kill themselves. For most Red Pill aware men this is a fairly well known stat and one that gets quoted often enough when women trot out their own stats about abuse or whatever issue they think it is that MRA are ‘confused’ about. They usually get owned when this sort of back and forth goes down, but I’m always drawn to the comparative issues women think are equitable to that of men losing their lives.

Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere. Sperm is cheap, eggs are scarce and men are expected to sacrifice their lives for the security and betterment of women even in the most patriarchal of prior social orders. It’s always interesting to me that issues of mandatory male conscription into the military (potential death) and the unignorable high male suicide rates are something women still won’t accept as being a pretty raw deal for men. Women’s innate solipsism will still compel women to find some “yeah, but;…” rationalization for men’s disposability. Whenever I bring something like this up the reflexive presumption is that I’m bemoaning men’s victim status for being disposable. However, it’s impossible to discuss male disposability without such a connotation. My issues isn’t one of seeking some equitable disposability for women, but rather it’s drawing attention to the way women react and rationalize away their own part in that disposability.

True Powerlessness

I covered a lot of this in Chivalry vs. Altruism, so I won’t belabor that here, but I will point out the inherent power imbalance in this disposability. I’ve stated in the past that true power is not the control we can exert over the lives of others, but rather the extent to which we have control over the direction of our own lives. When we discuss issues of power between men and women the real, ultimate, loss of that control is in the context of our deaths.

There is no greater powerlessness for men than a lack of control over our own disposability.

Again, this isn’t some cry of victimhood for men – I happen to believe there’s an evolved component in the male psychological firmware that actually predisposes us to sacrificing ourselves in lieu of the security of our women and children. That’s not so much altruism as it is an inborn subroutine for protecting women that triggers in life-threatening situations. When a mass shooter opens fire indiscriminately at a crowd of people it is the men, not the women, who instinctively put their bodies between that gun and women or children, even the one’s they don’t personally know.

In the bigger scope of things, men will always be more disposable than women, and on some level of consciousness women’s hindbrains instinctively understand this. As such, women’s conscious process must find ways to reconcile this understanding in order for them to move on from men’s sacrifices. Sometimes this can manifest in the War Brides phenomenon, but I would argue that in today’s social learning environment of mass media, instant gratification of women’ solipsism and feminine-primary social order, this reconciliation takes some even uglier turns. Today, women have become very efficient in consoling each other’s solipsistic rationalizing of men’s sacrifices. In this environment of default female victimization and presumed oppression even men’s ultimate sacrifice, men’s ultimate powerlessness in their own deaths, cannot ever be consciously or unconsciously acknowledged in a state of fempowerment.

While I had this debate it occurred to me that even men’s suicides could never be attributed to anything less than their own ‘male egos’ by women, thus making them victims of their conditioning into “toxic” masculinity. Essentially, women were arguing that men would put a noose around their necks because they were socially conditioned to do so. Their suicide rate was attributable to their self-pity and inability to be ‘real men’ as some nebulous toxic masculinity had predefined for them. I thought this was kind of ironic when you compare this reasoning to the narrative shift away from ‘toxic’ masculinity to masculinity itself is toxic. This is really a stupid argument when you consider that it’s just another social convention used to absolve women of the guilt associated with men’s sacrifices. Men are hardwired for self sacrifice, but likewise women had need to evolved psychological adaptations to help them clear the red from their life’s ledger in this respect.

So, in the end, it helps if women can fall back on social conventions that put the associated guilt of men’s sacrifices back on the men themselves. Chivalry and traditional masculinity are fine when they serve the Feminine Imperative, but if a man actually gets killed or kills himself as part of that, well, that’s on him then. And this is what I was beginning with in this debate; there will always be a desire for absolution of women’s guilt or complicity in the deaths of men. I should also add that in terms of war and men being drafted women regularly default to the same asinine presumption that if women were running the world that there would be no wars. I won’t dignify that with any deeper analysis than to say that this too is one more (feeble) way of looking for absolution in the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality.

Suicide Solution

That still left the question, why do men take their own lives in such alarmingly high numbers compared to women? I had to do a bit of research on this, but the demographics for male suicide today show some patterns. 7 in 10 suicides are men (majority white) between the ages of 45 and 65. As expected from gynocentric media, the primary reason always cited is men’s so called stubbornness in seeking out psychiatric help before they attempt suicide – again absolving women’s influence of any complicity – but ignoring what would motivate men, and this demographic in particular, to suicide. Again, there’s no attempt to understand the underlying reasons for male suicide, only a stereotypically easy ‘male-stupid’ answer to absolve women’s complicity in it.

There’s a lot to consider and be sensitive of when it comes to male suicide, but I’m going to speculate about a few reasons here coming from a Red Pill perspective. At no other time in western history has there ever been a generation of more purposeless men. From an evolved psychological perspective, men need a function. We are innate idealists. We look outward at the world and like to imagine what could be possible. I believe there is also an innate part of our evolved mental firmware that predisposes us to problem solving and improvisation, and much of that comes as an adaptation to women’s own innate need for men who can display cues of competency.

In Competency I made the case for women’s attraction to men displaying signals of competency, confidence, mastery and creative intelligence as a selected-for survival adaptation. In short, our competency in life, whether stemming from physical prowess, social dominance or creative intelligence is integrally linked with our reproductive success as well as overall life success.

However, at no other time in history has men’s competency been so devalued and so debased; other than perhaps in terms of physical prowess and accommodating the short term (Alpha Fucks) breeding imperatives of women. At no other time in (western) history has the equity in what a man can provide or create or solve been so implicitly unnecessary or superfluous to women. When we consider the rates of college enrollment and graduation of women compared to that of men, when we consider the practical problems that men used to solve, our utility has never been less needed – or at least that’s the zeitgeist of today.

We read about how men need to accept this new social reality – that our need for purpose and function is no longer needed or as valued – and we need to change our headspace about it as if it were something men might simply turn off. This is the result of equalist beliefs that anything gender-specific is something learned rather than the innate firmware we were born with. But we cannot simply change our minds about needing a function. We evolved to be problem solvers, women talk, men do, but now we are expected to accept that men are obsolete.

Loss of Utility

In Relational Equity I made a case for men investing too much of their egos into what intrinsic (and extrinsic) value they believe their respective women ought to appreciate about themselves. Under the old books, old social contract this equity may have had some conditional value to women, but as a buffer against Hypergamy today there is very little a man might consider value-added equity (unless it’s exceedingly rare or exceedingly valued) as a hedge against Hypergamy. Before any defeatist critics tell me how not all women are like that, yes, I get it, there are a lot of variables to consider here, but the equation and the reality doesn’t change – relational equity, overall, is no insurance against Hypergamy. It is also no insurance against women’s security and providership needs being met by resources that come from outside that relationship. I’m not considering this because I’m trying to depress any man, but it is vitally necessary to consider when we look at reasons why 45-65 year old men are predisposed to higher rates of suicide and higher rates of alcoholism and opioid abuse.

I would argue that a major contributing factor to high male suicide rates finds its origins in men’s need for purpose, function and accomplishment during this phase of life. Every day I read an article about how men my own age are dropping out of social discourse. I mentioned a Boston Globe article about just this phenomenon in Male Control. In some respects I can understand that despite the unprecedented connectivity we enjoy today men really don’t seek out bonds with other men. This is primarily due to the fact that men need a common purpose in order to form these bonds. Again, this is just how we’re wired. Women intentionally schedule time to simply interact with their same-sex friends just for the sake of communicating and enjoying the act of communicating. Men need function or a common purpose to come together. We need an activity or a problem to solve and then we communicate and form bonds.

Women talk, men do. This is a well studied fact; our brains and, by extension, social networks largely center on purpose and function. Now, lets presume that in spite of having literally all the information in the world at our finger tips we remove all need for the utility that men are wired to provide to not just women, but the larger scope of Society. We get a generation of men on the outside looking in. Only the most creative, resourceful and motivated of men can really utilize, much less master, all that this information has to offer him. And even a portion of those men can really see past the antipathy of their supposed obsolescence to do something truly meaningful or masterful. As the saying goes, most men live lives of quiet desperation, but in the modern era these men are demonstrably useless. And I mean that in a functional sense; once a Beta man has been wrung of his utility to women, he ceases to be able to convince his hindbrain that he can build, improvise or solve things.

Once a man is stripped of his usefulness, once it’s made clear that all of the equity he believed would support his relationship has been erased after so long, men will still resort to practical, deductive solutions. That solution may be suicide when weighed with the prospect of having to rebuild himself in a new context; and even if he did would he just be building a new ‘him’ based on his old belief set?

When my brother in-law committed suicide it seemed to me at the time to be the most logical end he would come to. He was a man very steeped in Blue Pill ideals, but he was also a man who prided himself on what he could do – and if he didn’t know how to do something he was always a fast learner. He literally built his life, and expectations of a future life, around the relational equity he believed defined him as a man. He was very invested in the old books, old social contract that rooted a man’s attractiveness and quality in what it was he could do. What he built for himself and his wife defined his identity.

All of that 20+ years of building equity and an identity based on it was erased for him in the space of about six months. But it was more than the 20 years he’d been saving, building, solving and refining, it was a perceived future he believed would be lived out for the rest of his life that got erased.

To me, at that time, his suicide made absolutely perfect sense from a male-deductive logic perspective. What didn’t make sense was all of the endless rationalizations I heard from his family, friends, his kids, his Ex (my now widowed sister in-law) about why they thought he went through with it when it was plain for anyone who wanted to confront the truth to see. A lot of these rationales were almost verbatim the same that the article I linked used. “If only men would reach out when they have suicidal thoughts”, any and every rationale that might absolve his Ex of the guilt, and still more that were meant to console her (he must’ve been mental ill) though in the end she really didn’t need it.

My brother in-law made a practical decision not an emotional one, and while I wouldn’t presume to say that a guy’s emotional state isn’t very influential in his suicide, how he comes to the decision is very much attributable to men’s deductive nature. He showed no outward signs of emotional distress. In fact, right up to his hanging himself he was in very good spirits and seemingly accepting of the fact that the wife he lived his life for was going to be leaving him soon. He was very matter of fact in a way that men are when they’ve resolved something for themselves. When a guy seems to be taking things in stride we don’t want to create a problem where we see none.

When we look in this context at the high rate of male suicide in this age demographic we begin to see how men come to this decision. Everything they’ve built up to 45-65 years of age is now debased, devalued or simply erased. All of the value and equity they’ve committed their lives to – doing the right thing according to their Blue Pill conditioning – is as if it never mattered. So they’re confronted with a choice, rebuild themselves (hopefully in a new Red Pill aware paradigm), reconstruct a new life and tough it out, or, simply, pragmatically erase themselves.

Personally, I’ve had at least two occasions where I’ve been confronted with rebuilding myself. It’s a tough prospect, make no mistake, especially when you’re Red Pill aware and understand the reality behind having to rebuild a life from scratch after so much investment in plans and projects you truly believed in when you made them. My father had to confront this rebuilding too at around 55 years of age, but rather than rebuild or kill himself I watched him slowly decay into a man I never knew could exist as my dad.

Zeroed Out

I apologize if this topic is a bit of a downer, but I think it ought to be part of any Red Pill aware man’s understanding that at many points in our lives we will be confronted with the prospects of having to rebuild ourselves. Failure, rejection and disappointment will happen for you, that’s just part of a man’s life, and it’s easy to rattle off platitudes about how many times you get back up being the measure of a man. But what I’m saying is there will be times when total reconstruction of your life will be a necessity.

You will be zeroed out at some point, and how you handle this is a much different situation than any temporary setback. This zeroing out is made all the more difficult when you confront the fact that what you believed to be so valuable, the equity you were told was what others would measure you by, was all part of your Blue Pill conditioning. At that point you need to understand that there is most definitely a hope for a better remake of yourself based on truths that were learned in the hardest way.

To end this I’m going to quote the comment of a man I met when I spoke at the 21 Convention in September. I won’t use his name, but after we talked he confessed that he was the commenter here. He’d made the trip to the convention to meet me face to face, to thank me for my work and gave me permission to use his example in a post. I won’t quote it entirely, but you can read the whole thing here. His situation is an example of, and inspiration for, everything I’ve illuminated in this essay

After a long marriage I divorced the mother of my children. A couple of years later, after some casual dating, I met a woman I would come to describe as my soulmate. I got married young – but this time, with all my infinite wisdom gained over the years – I was finally wise enough to pick a woman I was super compatible with.

We were together for a few years and even lived together. Things started out great and it was mostly smooth sailing until we moved in together – at which time I slowly allowed myself to be betaized in a slow motion, excruciating painful way.

About a month after breaking up with her I fully planned to commit suicide. I wrote a long letter explaining my rationalization and took other affirmative steps towards going through with it. About a week after I wrote the note – with D(eath) Day fast approaching – I took a break from getting my affairs in order to surf the net. I stumbled upon an Ask Reddit thread that was bad mouthing various subreddits. Some feminazi or male feminist mentioned the Red Pill subreddit as an example of a subreddit filled with craziness, and I decided to check what all of the fuss was about. Now

I’m not a religious man, but I will never rule out divine intervention. The timing of finding TRP – by complete coincidence no less – couldn’t have been more fortuitous. I stayed up all night reading the side bar – Rollo’s essays having the deepest effect on me – and everything…just…clicked….Talk about connecting the dots! Wow! It was very much like a come to Jesus moment. It was like divinity revealed secret knowledge to me just when I needed it the most – knowledge that gave me hope and very well may have saved my life. This all went down not really that long ago in actual time – but from where I metaphorically stand now it seems like an eternity.

Stay strong my friends, you can rebuild yourself even in the face of being zeroed out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

666 comments on “Men and Suicide

  1. I became fully redpill aware during the start of my marriage and I’ve actually taken to opposite view. Knowing fully female nature and how our current environment lets it run wild let me tease out my wife’s Alpha, and the true reasons she dated and married me. After embracing this knowledge I now treat her like complete dirt, cheat on her constantly and view all women now as inferior creatures. Once she spits out on or two kids I’ll be done as it’s the primary reason I got married , and if she decides to try putting me on child support or alimony after we split I’ll relocate to my home country and start over there.

    Swallowing the red pill left the most bitter taste in my mouth and has fully let me know the opposite sex is inferior in all ways. They have no honor, truth, virtue of character. They are hollow shells that we fill up with what we want and we can’t do that anymore nowadays because they filled themselves up already with “dating around” “having fun” and “finding themselves”

  2. I’m sorry about your brother in law Rollo.

    Any good statistics for how the suicide rate has changed over the years?

    The 7 out of 10 figure is astonishing, really. It definitely shows how dysfunctional modern culture is.

  3. Ah, Mary Beard. AKA “Taleb’s Punching Bag.”

    Redefine power, eh? Ya mean like pull the strings of the man who pulls the lever? What a novel idea. Why didn’t women think of that before?

  4. @ Mitch

    “But it is also true that men have a tendency to not recognize when they need help.”

    Men recognize they need help. The system double binds men to MAN UP or SHUT UP or risk career, life losses, betazation when admitting weakness.

    Male spaces, men’s social clubs (TRM), men’s athletic clubs, positive masculinity, all serving men’s interests primarily, used to the norm.

  5. https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2681701.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Rose-McGowan.jpg

    So…. this weird wench was “sexually molested” or “raped” in Hollyweird?……several years ago.

    And now Time magazine writes up a pile of bullshit about how the entire world is supposed to give a shit about her “anger”.

    Well “Rose”, it’s too late.

    It was too late when you emancipated yourself at the age of 15 (not so tender for you) from what little love your parents may have offered you and moved to Hollyweird to whore yourself into wealth and “fame”.

    Your deal with the devil is sealed and there’s no getting out of your contract with that.

    It’s too late, it’s toooo late…..

  6. Too Late For Love”

    Somewhere in the distance I hear the bells ring
    Darkness settles on the town as the children start to sing
    And the lady ‘cross the street she shuts out the night
    A cast of thousands waiting as she turns out the light

    But it’s too late, too late, too late
    Too late for love
    Too late, too late, too late
    Too late

    London boys are gazing, girls go hand in hand
    A pocket full of innocence, the entrance is grand
    The queen of the dream stands before them all
    She stretches out her hand as the curtain starts to fall

    But it’s too late, too late, too late
    Too late for love
    Too late, too late, it’s too late
    Too late

    Standing by the trapdoor aware of me and you
    The actor and the clown—they’re waiting for their cue
    And there’s a lady over there. She’s acting pretty cool
    But when it comes to playing life she always plays the fool

    But it’s too late, too late, it’s too late
    Too late for love
    Too late, it’s too late, too late
    Too late

    It’s a little too late…
    Much too late
    They say it’s just too late

    Late it’s too late…

    Too late, it’s too late, too late
    Too late for love
    Too late, too late, too late
    Too late

  7. Well then it’s time for some Procol Harum …

    I’m thinking of renting a villa in France
    A French girl has offered to give me a chance
    Or maybe I’ll take an excursion to Spain
    Buy a revolver, and blow out my brains

    But the point here is that the very next song takes a much healthier approach to getting zeroed:

    I’m buying an island
    Somewhere in the sun
    I’ll hide from the natives
    Live only on rum

  8. Thank you for writing this, Rollo. This blog, and the commenters, have convinced me that I’m not crazy or some kind of eccentric because I don’t buy into what the broader society and culture are selling.

    For anyone considering suicide as a sensible option, please cut out alcohol for a month if you’re a drinker. The times when I’ve gone black pill, I’ve noticed my alcohol consumption had crept way up. Cut out the booze for a short time and positive solutions look like a better idea.

  9. David Berg had some strong game…

    Love Bombing

    The expression has also been used to describe the tactics used by pimps and gang members to control their victims,[11] as well as to describe the behavior of an abusive narcissist who tries to win the confidence of a victim.[12][13] Modern social media can intensify the effect of love bombing since it enables the abuser with nearly constant contact and communication with the victim.[14]

    One of the signs of love bombing in the start of a relationship is much attention in short time, and pressure for very rapid commitment.[15] It is often the first sign of narcissism, and if successful turns to control and degradation.[16] Psychologist Dale Archer identifies “The Phases of Love Bombing: Idealization, Devaluation, Discard (Repeat).” He advises: “Stop, Look, and Listen” to avoid love bombing and to break off contact with the abuser, if possible, and seek support from family and friends.[14]

    http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/gurus/img/mo/ff.jpg

  10. @ ehintellect

    I don’t disagree with that regarding men as a category. I’m talking abt individual men who get to the point in their thinking that suicide is a rational, or best option and do the deed. When a man gets to this point, or sees himself going there he needs to recognize that somethings wrong and admit to himself that he may need help. Men are naturally predisposed not to ask for help in these circumstances.

    Someone made a comment above about how interesting it was that the suicide rate among black men is low compared to whites, and you’d think otherwise given their relatively bleaker socio-economic situation. My theory would be that blacks are generally more socially embedded and connected to family, friends etc. They arent as much the rugged individualists that white Anglo men are. Rugged individualism is great for men, until things go south and the mental downward spiral takes hold in your mind. Rugged individualism is not our friend at that point. You can’t always pull out of that spiral by yourself. Because thinking is inherently social, and you can get way, way off track thinking alone.

  11. Wow I just looked up that Time thing… Ugh.

    It’s just another instance of the left changing the definition of words, awards and etc. into whatever they want. Integrity, consistency and truth be damned!

  12. Hi Mitch,

    “My theory would be that blacks are generally more socially embedded and connected to family, friends etc.”

    Yes, fraternity shares the risk of freewill, falling off the cliff.

    “They arent as much the rugged individualists that white Anglo men are.”

    Not true.

    Look, Mitch. There are universals at play here. This is a race and class neutral issue. AWALT for a reason, right?

    Rollo commented above about this. There is and there is not.

    Try this: Consider existence controlled by unrevokable basic rules, simply understood, if you could read them.

    Everything else, demographics and otherwise is distracting static to confuse you, benefit your masters.

  13. @ Mitch

    I read the comment concerning black men and suicide, but resisted the urge to respond because I’ve made a choice to try to keep race out of my commentary as much as possible. Regardless of social and cultural happenings, we are all men in the final analysis.

    But I think it might be of some use to many if I post up my thoughts and experience as to why black men don’t normally commit suicide at rates comparable to our white brothers.

    In part, you are correct about the influence ( and backing ) of family and friends. Family and friends come above all else, because they are stable and unchanging, for the most part. A calm port in any storm. Sadly, even this is changing with successive generations. The messages from wider culture are just too loud, too persistent, and too strong to be ignored fully. Even what we call a counter or ” sub culture ” is no longer immunized against experiencing all of the negative downsides of popular culture without the positive upsides.

    In have mentioned here before that I’m just old enough to have witnessed Jim Crow in full effect. Understand that Jim Crow was a last stand in subjugation at it’s core. Historically, black people in general, but black men specifically had no rights. This was codified in law, in the constitution, and upheld numerous times by the supreme court. I know that nobody wants to hear that stuff because now people say ” I didn’t do any of that shit to black people ” lol, and I fully understand that mindset, and it has validity. Absolutely. This is why I am uncomfortable with ” black/white ” pronouncements. Blanket generalizations hinder understanding on all sides.

    Back on subject. The historic experience of black people in America was one that made it very clear, under penalty of death or the lash, that you were not an accepted part of society, and it was foolish and insulting to think or act otherwise. Thomas Jefferson believed that the nation at some point would need to step away from slavery, but his solution included the removal of blacks from the land. We couldn’t stay once free. Lincoln expressed similar thoughts. ( which is why I’m like ” fuck presidents day “, lol )

    During the middle passage from Africa to The West, thousands of captured did indeed commit suicide once they figured out what their fate was. Many more killed themselves once arrived on these shores. Those that remained were in survival mode. Just keep living.

    That message… ” just endure, keep living ” became ingrained and passed down through successive generations. No one outside of family and friends was ever going to be fair and righteous and just. The system had 2 faces. Live and work around it. Never trust it or look to it.

    So the message for black men was clearly ” no fucks given about you “. Lol. Because of this, your loved ones, the people that did care about your wellbeing, taught you to be self sufficient and don’t look for fairness. This was an underlying but constant message given to me by previous generations. It’s helped tremendously, and actually helped me to successfully navigate life. No one owes you shit, no one has to be just and fair, no one cares if you live nor die more than you do.

    Endure.

    Conversely, the civil rights era attempted to address some of the issues, and did manage to shame the government into addressing Jim Crow in my lifetime, but history is being quietly rewritten to frame the civil rights era as something radical and unamerican, full of Marxists and communists.

    But that’s a whole other story ( that today’s youth are 100% clueless about ).

    So the lack of suicide by black men is part of a legacy. A result of a couple hundred years of codified exclusion. You were never ” entitled ” to anything at all, even fairness, justice, or the dreaded equality/ equal treatment.

    And no fucks will be given. So what are you gonna do about it? Kill yourself? Yeah, that will solve nothing. The system wins when you stop existing.

    My observation is that the black suicide rate will indeed rise, but not during my lifetime. The dependence on government that arose after the squashing of the civlil rights movement has fomented a sick kind of aire of entitlement, and not in a good way. Social programs are undermining that traditional ” family and friends ” dynamic. When government vaulters in its promises to care for you, lmfao, or decides to no longer be obligated, then rates will rise among thosenwho will not turn to crime and lawlessness. And regardless to what anyone happens to think, that’s the overwhelming majority of males. They are pacified ( pussified? ) by government manipulation that ensures you won’t ever put another civil rights era into motion.

    Zeroed out without even realizing it.

    So give it more time.

  14. Blax

    but history is being quietly rewritten to frame the civil rights era as something radical and unamerican, full of Marxists and communists.

    Err… you might want to check that.

  15. Blax, thanks for your comments. I am also uncomfortable making sweeping statements wrt especially race, and think it can easily distract from the topic at hand – as well as the universal nature of mens experience living in the FI. And you may be right about the future suicide rate for black males rising, but your given reasons for that underscore my point – that social embededness is a bulwark against suicide. That’s why I brought it up.

    ( incidently, I read Black Boy by Richard Wright awhile back, about his experience growing up in the jim crow south. And was floored by it. I thought I knew, but I had no idea. )

    Sentient, thanks my thoughts are fine. I was conjuring up a period in my life 20 years ago, an experience I’ve never returned to thanks – in part- to the skills I learned when I sought help.
    Btw, for your spreadsheet, we had her green card interview yesterday, (finally!) and expect it to come in a couple weeks. Things are going well.

  16. @ Sentient

    I luv you man, but I don’t have to check. I was there living. It wasn’t something that was distant and happening to someone else that I had to read about after the fact.

    I see what’s being said in retrospect, with an agenda. Constitutional rights aren’t Marxist or communist. Not unamerican either. People trying to stop these things are the suspect ones.

  17. Mitch – “Things are going well.”. Phase 1 complete.

    Blax – “Constitutional rights aren’t Marxist or communist. Not unamerican either.” when they are supported by Marxists/Communists/Progressives?

  18. Lol. Don’t require a ‘ pass ‘. I trace my ‘ roots ‘ in this country back to the 1760’s,

    I have a pretty good handle on things, books written by others aside.

    There’s that ‘ others ‘ thing I’ve been talking about all thread long.

  19. 5% of the Atlantic slave trade was US bound.

    https://billygambelaafroasiaticanthropology.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/trans-atlantic-slave-map.gif

    It was a business deal. Those who were powerful, subjugated the weak. Race had nothing to do with it.

    Here’s a multiracial enslavment effort:

    “Murad’s crew, made up of Dutchmen, Moroccans, Algerians and Ottoman Turks, launched their covert attack on the remote village on June 20, 1631. They captured 107 villagers, mostly English settlers along with some local Irish people (some reports put the number as high as 237[3]). The attack was focused on the area of the village known to this day as the Cove. The villagers were put in irons and taken to a life of slavery in North Africa.“

    As the Irish above, West Africans were tribal, unaligned and such not organized enough to defend against coordinated slave traders. Tribal efforts go only so far.

    How did the early US deal with it? Sent in the Marines.

  20. @Sentient

    Blax is totally in “protect the commies” mode because so many civil rights workers were communists. Very understandable. Just as it’s understandable that whites oppose civil rights because it was perceived as a commie plot. Which it was. Two tribes at war with whites having a fifth column within.

    And all blacks were slaves.

    https://www.theroot.com/did-black-people-own-slaves-1790895436

    And blacks did not own white slaves.

    Except in Virginia, for a time.

    Only blacks were discriminated against. “Irish need not apply.”

    Ok, maybe a few white Catholics experienced discrimination.

    In 1642, the Colony of Virginia enacted a law prohibiting Catholic settlers. Five years later, a similar statute was enacted by the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

    Maryland was created as a colony so that Catholics could settle in America.

    Discrimination is as American as apple pie.

  21. “Othering”

    That was a trendy pejorative in undergrad. Undifferentiated social shaming tactics for political ends. No different than “toxic masculinity”.

  22. “For anyone considering suicide as a sensible option, please cut out alcohol for a month if you’re a drinker.”

    I fucking love drugs more than just about anybody I’ve ever met. there was a period of time where I was snorting stuff I’d find in parking lots. watching people flip the fuck out on psychs was a favorite hobby. k-holes, coke benders, benzo blackouts. snorting piles of crushed oxy. fucking everything. so I type this not from a place of judgment but long term observation as a drug user among drug users…

    alcohol is the most dangerous drug currently available to the general population. this is the reason: it is fucking SNEAKY and ADAPTIVE. it’s the rationalization hamster of drugs. who the fuck do we think we are to just assume that the yeast doesn’t have an agenda.

    look what it was able to achieve: thousands of different strains all stored in costly air conditioned environments. the product of its lifecylce shipped in huge trucks and containers crisscrossing the globe. much human energy is dedicated to preserving the yeast. when the old world winvery fermentation tank building has roofing problems, they build another new roof OVER the old one because all the goodies that make their shit taste like their shit are living in the cracks in the beams. grown men accomodating the yeast at every turn.

    i’m no doctor but I dont think alchool is prescribed for internal use by any branch of medicine to treat any condition. topically to sanitize. but when taken internally it causes nothing but problems. to the point that just drinking a bit too much of it in one evening can fucking kill you.

    but it is sold to anyone of a certain arbitrary age at just about every fucking place that commerce happens. just imagine crack cocaine on endcaps at the grocery store. people would freak the fuck out if they saw that. but alcohol fucks way more people up every day than crack and smack and meth ever could. and it happens right there in the home in front of the kids.

    assuming that just because something is “legal” or has “tradition” or maybe is even the fucking reason for the invention of writing because those sumerian motherfuckers had to keep track of how much booze everybody got…. doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take a closeer look at what it might really be about. and I type this as someone who has drank everything so don’t think i’m some prude or something. the golden slope makes me weak in the knees. but the cost is too high. just like a total carousel slut getting off the ride and then saying it was all just horrible, I say the same. piece of shit status acknowledged. but unless you have a burning desire to taste your way across the old world, be fucking careful with this drug. it will catch up to you always.

    “The times when I’ve gone black pill, I’ve noticed my alcohol consumption had crept way up”

    once the fat inside a body reaches a certain mass, especially the stuff around the organs, it gets a fucking mind of its own. it wants to be fed. alcohol is basically the perfect food for it. that and the disgusting food that people stuff down their pukeholes in order to recover from the hangover that the liquid caused in the first place. double win for the organ fat mass. the fat mass and the yeast seem to have a mutual survival thing going on. and the grass too. fuck em all. also that combo is what all the serfs live on right now. the swill “beerr” made from corn. bread and circuses are fun though if you’re shitfaced.

    “Cut out the booze for a short time and positive solutions look like a better idea.”

    because that depresasnt drug will depress the shit out of you. don’t let the fact that it appears to facilitate the dropping of panties fool you. big cost on the back end. the hangover promise of “I’ll never fucking do THAT again” is the proof. that feeling is real. your body is fucking pissed at you.

    the yeast appears simple. just like drinking a bunch of its output and then fucking a farm animal, or land whale, or your best friends wife looks like a great idea… until you metabolize the drug out and then are left with the real life consequences. in every case except for suicide. but suicide isn’t a hangover you can power through

    getting fucked up can be so much fun though. and I welcome the chance to maneuver past drunken holiday wrong way drivers. keeps us all on our toes

  23. …and think it can easily distract from the topic at hand – as well as the universal nature of mens experience living in the FI.

    To reiterate what I said about bring race into the discussion. Sorry I brought it up. Fwiw I read blax’s comment about civil rights as saying the progressive regime today is co-opting and the original movement and perverting those ideals for its own destructive agenda. I would agree with that.

  24. asd

    I knew you were gonna say exactly what you said. lol.

    Jim Crow, lynching, rape, murder and general fuckery isn’t important. Whatabout commies?

    That’s key.

    Predictable.

    Always.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/whataboutism-what-about-it/2017/08/17/4d05ed36-82b4-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b_story.html?utm_term=.4d729547437c

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-03/in-defense-of-some-whataboutism

    Most rational people I know don’t care about commies or progressives or right wingers or any labels. There are real problems to deal with. All that labeling shit might as well be Dragons and Dungeons for comfortable people with nothing real to concern themselves with.

    I hear more ” communist/Marxist ” talk on the web than I hear anywhere else. Lol.

  25. Mitch

    the progressive regime today is co-opting and the original movement and perverting those ideals for its own destructive agenda. I would agree with that.

    And that is naive because as you can see from the Primary Source Documents written by the historical CPUSA actors, these ‘ideals” were always part of the Communist/Marxist/Progressive agenda from post WWI on…

  26. @Mitch

    True. I recall reading a while ago that something like that was behind the high suicide rate in Finland. The idea that you had to sort yourself out, on your own.

    To me this white vs. black suicide difference in America has a lot to do with self-perception too. Blacks are accustomed to be poor, and downtrodden up to a extent. Living on food stamps is likely not such a big deal for them after all. They might even chalk them up as “reparations”.

    For many whites such conditions seem to be terribly humiliating. When I started reading about American politics I was surprised to hear stories of very conservative people in the Midwest who, despite being poor and needing it, refused to get government assistance on principle. Then the whole Tea Party movement. Etc. The “rugged individualism” concept sounds like a meme but it is real for many. (I recommend Thomas Frank’s “What’s the matter with Kansas” for more on this).

    Pride has a lot to do with the suicide dynamic in my view. In the end, if you are financially secure, you can “afford” to be depressed. Your life will be quite joyless but hey, you will eat and sleep somewhere. If you are both proud & poor, and therefore deeply resent your low-status employment, then suicide suddenly makes a lot of sense. In my particular case, I think such a situation would likely trigger it.

  27. Last comment on the subject ( I knew it was gonna go downhill….) then I am done.

    Ideologies are detrimental when the blind you to the point that as a man you can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong.

    If one can understand the FI and feminism, the things I mentioned should be a no brainer unless there’s some ideological agenda preventing acceptance of truths. Like Blue Pilled dudes. Gotta stick to a narrative, no matter what. Me right, You wrong.

    It’s odd to see men that can see the detrimental effects of feminism on men, especially with anti-male laws being codififeid almost yearly, yet Jim Crow only brings cries of marxist and communists.

    Intentionally missing the point.

    We can all understand the Harvey Weinstien and all of the other guys being accused of sexual harassment and assault, have NOTHING to do with the general male population, and we can all agree that it’s wrong to ” come after ” all men for the actions of a few, correct?

    But dudes searching out books about communist influence during Jim Crow…. Lol… I mean wtf?

    So when women speak of ” Toxic Masculinity ” , how can you actually argue against it when you’re so comfortable labeling an entire group experience based on the actions of a few? It’s the exact same thing.

    Done.

    Moving on.

  28. Mitch

    Negroes in a Soviet America – Published by Workers Library Publishers in 1935.

    Workers Library Publishers was the Workers Party of America’s New York City-based publishing house for pamphlets, focusing on propaganda pamphlets official Workers Party magazines. (International Publishers was the party’s book publishing house.)

    Founded in 1921, the Workers Party of America was the name of the legal party organization that supported the Marxist-Lenin ideology. Before establishing its own publishing houses, the Workers Party published a number of items under its own imprint, or in association with the Daily Worker, the party’s newspaper. At the group’s 1925 convention, it renamed itself the Workers (Communist) Party; and in 1929, the Communist Party USA. By the end of the 1930s, only about 10% of the party’s titles were published as pamphlets.

    Pamphlets published by Workers Library Publishers include Bertram David Wolfe’s The Trotsky opposition: its significance for American workers – No. 5 (1928), Josef Peters’ and Jack Stachel’s The Communist Party: A Manual on Organization (1935), and Alex Bittelman’s Milestones in the History of the Communist Party (1937).

    “Only on the basis of Socialism is the possibility created for the full and equal development of the Negro people.”

    http://awfullibrarybooks.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/negroes-soviet-1.jpg

    http://awfullibrarybooks.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/negroes-soviet-2.jpg

    http://awfullibrarybooks.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/negroes-soviet-4.jpg

  29. Sentient,
    That commies were involved in pushing civil rights back in the day doesn’t negate the mainstream liberal (in the classical sense) ideal of the dignity of the individual man and his inalienable rights to pursue life, liberty, yada yada. The denial of these rights to blacks, as it was rationalized in this country, was based on denial of their full personhood.
    Though commies thought they’d get in on that action, that ideology wasn’t what ultimately drove the movement.

    . Today though? I’d say the progressive regime, feminism, blk, trans, etc, is absolutely communism having reinvented itself, having achieved what Italian communist Antonio Gramsci predicted about “the long march through the institutions.” His vision come to fruition.

  30. Blax

    Jim Crow only brings cries of marxist and communists.

    What’s bringing cries is your ahistorical notion that the Communist/Marxist/Progressive forces did not have an influence on what became the Civil rights movement – many years later – and that many of those same folks took up the cause of Civil Rights.

  31. Mitch

    That commies were involved in pushing civil rights back in the day doesn’t negate the mainstream liberal (in the classical sense) ideal of the dignity of the individual man and his inalienable rights to pursue life, liberty, yada yada.

    1. Never said anything about negating.

    2. Be careful with the whole liberty, equality, fraternity thing… Recall the whole phrase

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/LibertyEqualityorDeath.jpg/220px-LibertyEqualityorDeath.jpg

    That Ou La Mort does not mean what you may think it means…

  32. Oh, one last observation for the commenters tying back into the OP.

    You have to have a thick skin in life. When people have an alternative narrative concerning you and who you are and what you’re about, you must recognize that for what it is and not let it effect you.

    What happens, I think, with many men in life is that they aren’t used to being attacked or degraded or misrepresented by ” others “, they lose it and fall apart. The stuff Senty and asd are saying, I , along with most people I know, have been hearing some version of this out entire lives. It’s incorrect and pervasive and it never stops – If You Pay Attention To It and Give It Gravitas.

    I’ve said before a long time ago here, that what’s happening now is that white males are being targeted more and more, and being blamed for every ill of society. And it’s taking a terrible toll because this is fairly new and all of the sacred institutions that were supposed to work are being co-opted and actually starting to work against you.

    Rollo gave me a poignant new descriptor in ” zeroed out “.

    Don’t get zeroed out.

    Zeroing out begins in your mind. How strongly do you subscribe and believe in things that you don’t control or fully understand? Ya think being a ” nice guy ” is a good idea wrt women? Why not? Well, do and inventory in your head and jettison all the fluff.

    Just in case shit falls apart.

    Understand that it was always just ” shit “.

  33. “If women are not perceived to be fully within the structures of power, surely it is power that we need to redefine rather than women?”

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/04/24/the-pet/

    Play My Game

    It is a far healthier approach to accept the laws of power, the laws of Game, Hypergamy, etc. and fashion a life around an understanding of them than to convince oneself that they are an exception to them.

    There are those who seek power by changing the game – by lowering the basketball hoops in order to better shoot a basket – but in ‘leveling the playing field’ they only succeed in changing the nature of the competition to better suit their individual abilities, neither improving the game nor themselves. The temporary change of rules only serves their inadequacies in that game.

    Then there are those who accept the game for what it is, they understand it and they master it (or at least attempt to do so). They understand the need for adversity and the benefits it gives them when they reach the next level of mastering the game – not only in technique, but from the confidence this genuinely and verifiably confers.

    Don’t wish things were easier, wish you were better.

    It’s the aberration who seeks to legitimize her cheating at the game as the new way the game should be played. Shoot the arrow, paint the target around it, and you’ll always get a bullseye.

  34. Blax

    You are cracking me up on this

    The stuff Senty and asd are saying, I , along with most people I know, have been hearing some version of this out entire lives. It’s incorrect and pervasive and it never stops – If You Pay Attention To It and Give It Gravitas.

    One can choose to be ignorant or not pay attention to factual events that happened. But it isn’t going to change history, or what actually happened.

    Your premise:

    history is being quietly rewritten to frame the civil rights era as something radical and unamerican, full of Marxists and communists.

    is what I’ve responded to. And it is abundantly clear from even minor reading that history is not being rewritten… hell from your comments it’s as if history has yet to be discovered in the first place. The primary source documents, written by the actors, from the 1930’s on prove your premise is simply false. Communists/Marxists/Progressive where always part of the civil rights movement from its earliest formation. Do you agree or are those documents false and the authors don’t exist?

  35. Blax

    I’m sure a large percentage haven’t heard of Marcus Garvey either… or Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.

    So?

  36. @ Oscar

    ” To me this white vs. black suicide difference in America has a lot to do with self-perception too. Blacks are accustomed to be poor, and downtrodden up to a extent. Living on food stamps is likely not such a big deal for them after all. They might even chalk them up as “reparations”.”

    Jesus.

    False narrative big time.

    Working-class whites are the biggest beneficiaries of federal poverty-reduction programs, even though blacks and Hispanics have substantially higher rates of poverty, according to a new study to be released Thursday by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

    Government assistance and tax credits lifted 6.2 million working-class whites out of poverty in 2014, more than any other racial or ethnic demographic. Half of all working-age adults without college degrees lifted out of poverty by safety-net programs are white; nearly a quarter are black and a fifth are Hispanic.

    The result does not simply reflect the fact that there are more white people in the country. The percentage of otherwise poor whites lifted from poverty by government safety-net programs is higher, at 44 percent, compared to 35 percent of otherwise poor minorities, the study concluded.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/16/the-biggest-beneficiaries-of-the-government-safety-net-working-class-whites/?utm_term=.5461c598a638

    But the narrative you pointed out will persist into perpetuity. And people will just blindly accept it.

    That’s how it works.

  37. @Oscar
    Yeah I think pride is a factor too, in that it inhibits one from asking for help – and I’m talking specifically about emotional, psych help, not food stamps and whatnot.

    Rugged Individualism is a real “thing”, its part of the founding psyche of this country – and part of what made it great, imo. But there’s a hidden trap there too, if you can’t ever admit that you might need others.

  38. Ok. The discussion is turning to dumb, racial propaganda shit. Lets just agree to disagree.

    Believe whatever you want to believe.

  39. Sentient,
    I think I see your point about the French revolution, and while I can’t speak with a whole lot of knowledge about the differences between that and the American, I think they are significant. The FR was certainly a catastrophe in ways the AR was not- it gives me shivers to think about. You might say it was even a perversion of the ideals of the AR – though I’m not about to claim much knowledge in this area. Others may have better insight.

    Still, regardless of the extent of commie influence in the civil rights era, I still think the ‘official’ narrative is sound. And I think we could agree that whats come after civil rights is the progression of that commie influence.

  40. @Blax

    Thanks for the info. I lean left but I always end up reading right-wing stuff, I can’t help it. I am always attracted to people who is not like me (particularly girls lol).

    So yeah, the communists surely saw an opportunity for agitation in the Jim Crow system but the problem was there before them.

  41. Mitch

    I think we could agree that whats come after civil rights is the progression of that commie influence.

    Progressive progression. Yes I agree. But where did it start?

  42. @Blax

    Jim Crow, lynching, rape, murder and general fuckery isn’t important.

    Funny, I didn’t see you planting any fucks in your field when several (5+ men, IIRC) older white men were being murdered in Kansas City this year by a black man who posted racist rants on fb. So you think we should give any fucks about a couple of civil rights (cough-communist-cough) workers who were lynched in the South many decades ago?

    For sure, there were Jim Crow laws, but they have been gone for decades. Try to find something current.

    And blacks murder many more whites than whites murder blacks,

    http://www.aim.org/special-report/black-criminals-white-victims-and-white-guilt/

    so there’s obviously still lots more racism out there in the black community than in the white community.

    Couldn’t find any racial statistics on rape.

    So, sure, let’s talk race…but you won’t enjoy swallowing The Red Pill.

  43. Sentient,
    What, you think the civil rights movement originated w/ Marx and the commies? Ah, nooo, civil rights grew out of a long, slow process that started well before the civil war, with Christians awakening to the idea that actually blacks are really and truly people too, and principles embedded in our constitution are in conflict with that. Roughly. Ill have to dig up some shit to back that up, which I don’t have access to now, but the commies were johnny-come-latelys to the party.

  44. Sentient,
    What, you think the civil rights movement originated w/ Marx and the commies? ah, nooo, civil rights grew out of a long, slow process that started well before the civil war, with white Christians awakening to the idea that actually blacks are in fact people too, and principles embedded in our constitution are in conflict with that. Roughly. Ill have to dig up some shit to back that up, which I don’t have access to now, but the commies were johnny-come-latelys to the party.

  45. Asd says ” whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout “.

    Please, stop proving my points and just drop it. I’ve known for years just who You are and how You feel.

    Lol.

    Fucking manosphere….

  46. “Fucking manosphere….”

    Avoid the noise and the dirty-ness of it. Ian Ironwood describes it (The Manosphere) as a Dirty Comet. The current discussion is just noise that can be filtered out.

    As regards to the Manosphere: the unifying principal happens to be Men and Masculinity and issues related to that. . 

    Beyond that, all bets are off.

    I waded through the bullshit like a champ four years ago. And decided and discriminated. And got to the meat of the discussion.

    “For every Roissy or RooshV-style PUA “Jedi Master” out there, there are also thousands of men who participate in small ways, passionate not about hooking-up with a succession of hot chicks, for instance, but perhaps passionate about the bond they shared with their father over professional baseball, or how their relationship with their brothers changed when they got married, or how difficult it can be to be a man in a predominantly female office and distinguish yourself without being attacked for sexism.  Masculinity doesn’t stop with our dicks.  It sprays out messily all over the place.

    That’s the Manosphere.  That’s the dirty snowball.  You rarely know where it begins and ends.  The more you try to “touch” it, the more it defies your definitions and resists your capability to be confined.  And the moment you say something definitive about it, there are a hundred exceptions to the rule that make your attempt moot or foolhardy. –Ian Ironwood

  47. Ok, as I’m going back re-reading trying to figure out why in the hell we’re arguing about communists in the civil rights era, and what that has to do with suicide, ads and sentient are reacting to Blax’ statement about reactionaries quietly re-writing the history of civil rights as being communist plot. From the comments that sounds about right.

    Ok, so lets stipulate commies were in fact intrinsically involved in the civil rights movement. And? What’s your point? I don’t understand. Sentient, you agree that fact doesn’t negate the classical liberal principles that are in conflict with slavery and jim crow. Do you really believe that the ‘official narrative’ is unsound? I don’t understand what you guys are reacting to, because Blax’ point in that post was entirely about how the black experience in slavery and jim crow era led to them developing – among other things- a psychological buffer against disappointment, something that white men are only recently coming to experience in large numbers. What he described explains a lot about why he demonstrates the confidence and internal fortitude that he does. And why the suicide rate is lower among black males. Blacks have historically and currently have experienced a degree and level of suffering that white Americans have collectively not. And suffering builds character and strength, amirite?

    What the fuck does any of this have to do with defending commies? Nothing.

  48. Blaximus
    Zeroing out begins in your mind.

    Viktor Frankl went to the edge of the death strip in a Nazi concentration camp and gave lectures on Logotherapy to the dirt and trees in order to have a purpose, to avoid despair.

    Marines and pilots starving on a single ball of rice per day in a Japanese prison camp in the Phillippine jungle made up elaborate menus for the dinners they intended to have in San Francisco after the war, in order to avoid despair.

    The history of the 20th century alone is stuffed full of “it begins in your mind”, all one has to do is look and see clearly.

  49. Well, that the blacks developed psychological buffers against disappointment was a point apart from the role of commies and commie mentality in firing up and championing civil rights. Commie mentality aligns well with the notion that poor little Wimpy deserves a life too. The more uncommie, the less the qualms about invading a continent and icing the natives if not for anything, but for the fact that they have smaller guns.

  50. @Mitch

    At first, the civil rights movement embraced the commies. This brought about backlash from white America. Then the civil rights movement whitewashed the association of the civil rights movement with the commies. So now, mentioning the association of the civil rights movement with the commies brings about a reaction of defending commies. And an attempt to whitewash the association yet again. Blax was attempting another Watergate-style cover up.

    I really don’t care about any of the association shit, but I care about the reaction to defend commies and whitewash the association.

    Why the suicide difference between whites and blacks?

    Black men marry far less frequently than do white men (32% v. 48%) and thus are less likely to experience frivorce with cash & prizes. This partially explains the difference in suicide rates.

    https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/marriage-and-divorce-patterns-by-gender-race-and-educational-attainment.htm

    I would not be surprised if higher expectations among white men has something to do with their higher suicide rates.

  51. Mitch

    It’s on me because I knew how this was probably gonna go, especially once asd got involved with the same exact talking points and bullshit statistics he always trots out.

    Agenda.

    Autism. Lol.
    I was only trying to give my perspective as a black man living in America for 5 decades.

    Instead I hear about murder rates and communists and marriage rates and basically an assload of guessing from the outside.

    Lol, mother fuckers know better than me.

    But it’s refreshing to hear that all women and minorities are communists. I’ll let that sentiment stand on its own merits as a testimony to the intligence of the man, who will be dead and gone soon enough, that posted it.

  52. Ads, ok point taken. This conversation has probably been had before and I missed it . lol. It is a complicated business trying to tease out the various intellectual strains that inform history and politics, for sure. But I will maintain that the intellectual strain informing the ‘official’ narrative was in process well before the civil war, and waaay before marx.

    I think what’s important is the idea that the communist strain of thought is what mutated out of the civil rights era into the identity politics we deal with today. And that doesn’t negate the idea that it was necessary to correct course in this country wrt to blacks in particular. Jim crow really was systemic, institutionalized terror perpetrated on black Americans. I don’t think pointing fingers or demanding white people feel guilty about the past is helpful at all. Still, understanding the truth of that era, and the legacy that we still live with today is necessary, imo. And so is understanding the commie role in civil rights important too. For sure.

  53. “I was only trying to give my perspective as a black man living in America for 5 decades.

    Instead I hear about murder rates and communists and marriage rates and basically an assload of guessing from the outside.”

    Noise. Fucking Noise. Drowning out the real message.

    Breath deeply. And relax. It’s all just noise.

    We are here to talk about sex and fucking women. And it is Testing. Testing never ends.

    You don’t merely pass a test. You used it to your advantage.

    Blaximus, I’ve never seen a more masculine perspective, ever, in the manosphere, than what you give.

    And Thanks a Lot for That! You have a lot to offer. Keep offering it.

    The style of YaReally is telling. Stick to your strengths. Minimize your weaknesses. Or Don’t play into your opponents style.

    No one is against you. So don’t give fuel to the fire.

    I just built the best ash firewood fire in the the fireplace. It got cold here. And I’m going to keep feeding the ash firewood to it.

  54. @Blax

    <ILol, mother fuckers know better than me.

    Sorry man, but here comes my ‘i have a black friend story”

    I’m fairly close to a black family, mainly two brothers and a sister all in their 50s. Sis is the oldest, and the matriarch, since parents passed on. I sat stunned one day listening to sister tell about how one day when she was in 6th grade her mother told her to go out in the yard and pick out a switch, which she then proceeded to whip her with, and made her little brothers stand there and watch. For NO apparent reason. This ritual continued every day after school for a whole year, and then it just stopped. In context with other stories they told, I got the impression that she believed she was teaching her children something important to help them survive. ” Lots of other stories that were beyond my comprehension to understand, but the warmth and strength and lack of bitterness and self-pity in this woman is a quite a thing to behold.

    Not trying to be sentimental or anything, but it occurs to me that there’s a lot for me to learn from these friends about how deal with disappointment, and the sense of injustice that I sometimes feel as a white man in America. Which in comparison sounds kind of pathetic.

  55. SJF, you really don’t need to pile on Blax…he’s had his ass handed to him already. Anyone who follows the argument knows that Blax is a major smoke blower…Sentient and I both handed Blax his ass.

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