Men and Suicide

Before I launch in here today I need to confess that this post has been in my drafts folder for a while now. As most of my readers are aware I’ve known two personal friends who’ve taken their own lives as a result of having their Blue Pill conditioned beliefs set them on a path to self destruction. One of the more important parts of my charter when I started writing was to reach the men who were at their wits’ end in figuring out how to deal with their personal, romantic or married lives that had until then been directed by what their Blue Pill acculturation and their understanding of intersexual dynamics were molded to be. Since I started and stopped and then restarted this topic again there have been a few recent developments in my perspective on men taking their own lives as a result of the Blue Pill’s influence on them.

All of this really began about two months ago while I was engaging in a debate (or what passes for debate) on Twitter with a very unsympathetic woman who thought she’d set me straight about why it is men choose to take their own lives at a far greater rate than women. As it stands today, men are statistically between 4 and 5 times more likely than women to kill themselves. For most Red Pill aware men this is a fairly well known stat and one that gets quoted often enough when women trot out their own stats about abuse or whatever issue they think it is that MRA are ‘confused’ about. They usually get owned when this sort of back and forth goes down, but I’m always drawn to the comparative issues women think are equitable to that of men losing their lives.

Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere. Sperm is cheap, eggs are scarce and men are expected to sacrifice their lives for the security and betterment of women even in the most patriarchal of prior social orders. It’s always interesting to me that issues of mandatory male conscription into the military (potential death) and the unignorable high male suicide rates are something women still won’t accept as being a pretty raw deal for men. Women’s innate solipsism will still compel women to find some “yeah, but;…” rationalization for men’s disposability. Whenever I bring something like this up the reflexive presumption is that I’m bemoaning men’s victim status for being disposable. However, it’s impossible to discuss male disposability without such a connotation. My issues isn’t one of seeking some equitable disposability for women, but rather it’s drawing attention to the way women react and rationalize away their own part in that disposability.

True Powerlessness

I covered a lot of this in Chivalry vs. Altruism, so I won’t belabor that here, but I will point out the inherent power imbalance in this disposability. I’ve stated in the past that true power is not the control we can exert over the lives of others, but rather the extent to which we have control over the direction of our own lives. When we discuss issues of power between men and women the real, ultimate, loss of that control is in the context of our deaths.

There is no greater powerlessness for men than a lack of control over our own disposability.

Again, this isn’t some cry of victimhood for men – I happen to believe there’s an evolved component in the male psychological firmware that actually predisposes us to sacrificing ourselves in lieu of the security of our women and children. That’s not so much altruism as it is an inborn subroutine for protecting women that triggers in life-threatening situations. When a mass shooter opens fire indiscriminately at a crowd of people it is the men, not the women, who instinctively put their bodies between that gun and women or children, even the one’s they don’t personally know.

In the bigger scope of things, men will always be more disposable than women, and on some level of consciousness women’s hindbrains instinctively understand this. As such, women’s conscious process must find ways to reconcile this understanding in order for them to move on from men’s sacrifices. Sometimes this can manifest in the War Brides phenomenon, but I would argue that in today’s social learning environment of mass media, instant gratification of women’ solipsism and feminine-primary social order, this reconciliation takes some even uglier turns. Today, women have become very efficient in consoling each other’s solipsistic rationalizing of men’s sacrifices. In this environment of default female victimization and presumed oppression even men’s ultimate sacrifice, men’s ultimate powerlessness in their own deaths, cannot ever be consciously or unconsciously acknowledged in a state of fempowerment.

While I had this debate it occurred to me that even men’s suicides could never be attributed to anything less than their own ‘male egos’ by women, thus making them victims of their conditioning into “toxic” masculinity. Essentially, women were arguing that men would put a noose around their necks because they were socially conditioned to do so. Their suicide rate was attributable to their self-pity and inability to be ‘real men’ as some nebulous toxic masculinity had predefined for them. I thought this was kind of ironic when you compare this reasoning to the narrative shift away from ‘toxic’ masculinity to masculinity itself is toxic. This is really a stupid argument when you consider that it’s just another social convention used to absolve women of the guilt associated with men’s sacrifices. Men are hardwired for self sacrifice, but likewise women had need to evolved psychological adaptations to help them clear the red from their life’s ledger in this respect.

So, in the end, it helps if women can fall back on social conventions that put the associated guilt of men’s sacrifices back on the men themselves. Chivalry and traditional masculinity are fine when they serve the Feminine Imperative, but if a man actually gets killed or kills himself as part of that, well, that’s on him then. And this is what I was beginning with in this debate; there will always be a desire for absolution of women’s guilt or complicity in the deaths of men. I should also add that in terms of war and men being drafted women regularly default to the same asinine presumption that if women were running the world that there would be no wars. I won’t dignify that with any deeper analysis than to say that this too is one more (feeble) way of looking for absolution in the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality.

Suicide Solution

That still left the question, why do men take their own lives in such alarmingly high numbers compared to women? I had to do a bit of research on this, but the demographics for male suicide today show some patterns. 7 in 10 suicides are men (majority white) between the ages of 45 and 65. As expected from gynocentric media, the primary reason always cited is men’s so called stubbornness in seeking out psychiatric help before they attempt suicide – again absolving women’s influence of any complicity – but ignoring what would motivate men, and this demographic in particular, to suicide. Again, there’s no attempt to understand the underlying reasons for male suicide, only a stereotypically easy ‘male-stupid’ answer to absolve women’s complicity in it.

There’s a lot to consider and be sensitive of when it comes to male suicide, but I’m going to speculate about a few reasons here coming from a Red Pill perspective. At no other time in western history has there ever been a generation of more purposeless men. From an evolved psychological perspective, men need a function. We are innate idealists. We look outward at the world and like to imagine what could be possible. I believe there is also an innate part of our evolved mental firmware that predisposes us to problem solving and improvisation, and much of that comes as an adaptation to women’s own innate need for men who can display cues of competency.

In Competency I made the case for women’s attraction to men displaying signals of competency, confidence, mastery and creative intelligence as a selected-for survival adaptation. In short, our competency in life, whether stemming from physical prowess, social dominance or creative intelligence is integrally linked with our reproductive success as well as overall life success.

However, at no other time in history has men’s competency been so devalued and so debased; other than perhaps in terms of physical prowess and accommodating the short term (Alpha Fucks) breeding imperatives of women. At no other time in (western) history has the equity in what a man can provide or create or solve been so implicitly unnecessary or superfluous to women. When we consider the rates of college enrollment and graduation of women compared to that of men, when we consider the practical problems that men used to solve, our utility has never been less needed – or at least that’s the zeitgeist of today.

We read about how men need to accept this new social reality – that our need for purpose and function is no longer needed or as valued – and we need to change our headspace about it as if it were something men might simply turn off. This is the result of equalist beliefs that anything gender-specific is something learned rather than the innate firmware we were born with. But we cannot simply change our minds about needing a function. We evolved to be problem solvers, women talk, men do, but now we are expected to accept that men are obsolete.

Loss of Utility

In Relational Equity I made a case for men investing too much of their egos into what intrinsic (and extrinsic) value they believe their respective women ought to appreciate about themselves. Under the old books, old social contract this equity may have had some conditional value to women, but as a buffer against Hypergamy today there is very little a man might consider value-added equity (unless it’s exceedingly rare or exceedingly valued) as a hedge against Hypergamy. Before any defeatist critics tell me how not all women are like that, yes, I get it, there are a lot of variables to consider here, but the equation and the reality doesn’t change – relational equity, overall, is no insurance against Hypergamy. It is also no insurance against women’s security and providership needs being met by resources that come from outside that relationship. I’m not considering this because I’m trying to depress any man, but it is vitally necessary to consider when we look at reasons why 45-65 year old men are predisposed to higher rates of suicide and higher rates of alcoholism and opioid abuse.

I would argue that a major contributing factor to high male suicide rates finds its origins in men’s need for purpose, function and accomplishment during this phase of life. Every day I read an article about how men my own age are dropping out of social discourse. I mentioned a Boston Globe article about just this phenomenon in Male Control. In some respects I can understand that despite the unprecedented connectivity we enjoy today men really don’t seek out bonds with other men. This is primarily due to the fact that men need a common purpose in order to form these bonds. Again, this is just how we’re wired. Women intentionally schedule time to simply interact with their same-sex friends just for the sake of communicating and enjoying the act of communicating. Men need function or a common purpose to come together. We need an activity or a problem to solve and then we communicate and form bonds.

Women talk, men do. This is a well studied fact; our brains and, by extension, social networks largely center on purpose and function. Now, lets presume that in spite of having literally all the information in the world at our finger tips we remove all need for the utility that men are wired to provide to not just women, but the larger scope of Society. We get a generation of men on the outside looking in. Only the most creative, resourceful and motivated of men can really utilize, much less master, all that this information has to offer him. And even a portion of those men can really see past the antipathy of their supposed obsolescence to do something truly meaningful or masterful. As the saying goes, most men live lives of quiet desperation, but in the modern era these men are demonstrably useless. And I mean that in a functional sense; once a Beta man has been wrung of his utility to women, he ceases to be able to convince his hindbrain that he can build, improvise or solve things.

Once a man is stripped of his usefulness, once it’s made clear that all of the equity he believed would support his relationship has been erased after so long, men will still resort to practical, deductive solutions. That solution may be suicide when weighed with the prospect of having to rebuild himself in a new context; and even if he did would he just be building a new ‘him’ based on his old belief set?

When my brother in-law committed suicide it seemed to me at the time to be the most logical end he would come to. He was a man very steeped in Blue Pill ideals, but he was also a man who prided himself on what he could do – and if he didn’t know how to do something he was always a fast learner. He literally built his life, and expectations of a future life, around the relational equity he believed defined him as a man. He was very invested in the old books, old social contract that rooted a man’s attractiveness and quality in what it was he could do. What he built for himself and his wife defined his identity.

All of that 20+ years of building equity and an identity based on it was erased for him in the space of about six months. But it was more than the 20 years he’d been saving, building, solving and refining, it was a perceived future he believed would be lived out for the rest of his life that got erased.

To me, at that time, his suicide made absolutely perfect sense from a male-deductive logic perspective. What didn’t make sense was all of the endless rationalizations I heard from his family, friends, his kids, his Ex (my now widowed sister in-law) about why they thought he went through with it when it was plain for anyone who wanted to confront the truth to see. A lot of these rationales were almost verbatim the same that the article I linked used. “If only men would reach out when they have suicidal thoughts”, any and every rationale that might absolve his Ex of the guilt, and still more that were meant to console her (he must’ve been mental ill) though in the end she really didn’t need it.

My brother in-law made a practical decision not an emotional one, and while I wouldn’t presume to say that a guy’s emotional state isn’t very influential in his suicide, how he comes to the decision is very much attributable to men’s deductive nature. He showed no outward signs of emotional distress. In fact, right up to his hanging himself he was in very good spirits and seemingly accepting of the fact that the wife he lived his life for was going to be leaving him soon. He was very matter of fact in a way that men are when they’ve resolved something for themselves. When a guy seems to be taking things in stride we don’t want to create a problem where we see none.

When we look in this context at the high rate of male suicide in this age demographic we begin to see how men come to this decision. Everything they’ve built up to 45-65 years of age is now debased, devalued or simply erased. All of the value and equity they’ve committed their lives to – doing the right thing according to their Blue Pill conditioning – is as if it never mattered. So they’re confronted with a choice, rebuild themselves (hopefully in a new Red Pill aware paradigm), reconstruct a new life and tough it out, or, simply, pragmatically erase themselves.

Personally, I’ve had at least two occasions where I’ve been confronted with rebuilding myself. It’s a tough prospect, make no mistake, especially when you’re Red Pill aware and understand the reality behind having to rebuild a life from scratch after so much investment in plans and projects you truly believed in when you made them. My father had to confront this rebuilding too at around 55 years of age, but rather than rebuild or kill himself I watched him slowly decay into a man I never knew could exist as my dad.

Zeroed Out

I apologize if this topic is a bit of a downer, but I think it ought to be part of any Red Pill aware man’s understanding that at many points in our lives we will be confronted with the prospects of having to rebuild ourselves. Failure, rejection and disappointment will happen for you, that’s just part of a man’s life, and it’s easy to rattle off platitudes about how many times you get back up being the measure of a man. But what I’m saying is there will be times when total reconstruction of your life will be a necessity.

You will be zeroed out at some point, and how you handle this is a much different situation than any temporary setback. This zeroing out is made all the more difficult when you confront the fact that what you believed to be so valuable, the equity you were told was what others would measure you by, was all part of your Blue Pill conditioning. At that point you need to understand that there is most definitely a hope for a better remake of yourself based on truths that were learned in the hardest way.

To end this I’m going to quote the comment of a man I met when I spoke at the 21 Convention in September. I won’t use his name, but after we talked he confessed that he was the commenter here. He’d made the trip to the convention to meet me face to face, to thank me for my work and gave me permission to use his example in a post. I won’t quote it entirely, but you can read the whole thing here. His situation is an example of, and inspiration for, everything I’ve illuminated in this essay

After a long marriage I divorced the mother of my children. A couple of years later, after some casual dating, I met a woman I would come to describe as my soulmate. I got married young – but this time, with all my infinite wisdom gained over the years – I was finally wise enough to pick a woman I was super compatible with.

We were together for a few years and even lived together. Things started out great and it was mostly smooth sailing until we moved in together – at which time I slowly allowed myself to be betaized in a slow motion, excruciating painful way.

About a month after breaking up with her I fully planned to commit suicide. I wrote a long letter explaining my rationalization and took other affirmative steps towards going through with it. About a week after I wrote the note – with D(eath) Day fast approaching – I took a break from getting my affairs in order to surf the net. I stumbled upon an Ask Reddit thread that was bad mouthing various subreddits. Some feminazi or male feminist mentioned the Red Pill subreddit as an example of a subreddit filled with craziness, and I decided to check what all of the fuss was about. Now

I’m not a religious man, but I will never rule out divine intervention. The timing of finding TRP – by complete coincidence no less – couldn’t have been more fortuitous. I stayed up all night reading the side bar – Rollo’s essays having the deepest effect on me – and everything…just…clicked….Talk about connecting the dots! Wow! It was very much like a come to Jesus moment. It was like divinity revealed secret knowledge to me just when I needed it the most – knowledge that gave me hope and very well may have saved my life. This all went down not really that long ago in actual time – but from where I metaphorically stand now it seems like an eternity.

Stay strong my friends, you can rebuild yourself even in the face of being zeroed out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Mitch
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Also, even if you haven’t reached the depths of hell CBT is a still a great set of tools for building the life you want.

rugby11
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theasdgamer
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Interesting that the WaPo editorial board is saying that Mueller’s probe looks like a partisan hit after the Strzok revelations.

Elite Manhood
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I became fully redpill aware during the start of my marriage and I’ve actually taken to opposite view. Knowing fully female nature and how our current environment lets it run wild let me tease out my wife’s Alpha, and the true reasons she dated and married me. After embracing this knowledge I now treat her like complete dirt, cheat on her constantly and view all women now as inferior creatures. Once she spits out on or two kids I’ll be done as it’s the primary reason I got married , and if she decides to try putting me on child… Read more »

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Fin.

theasdgamer
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Oh, well, it was the NY Post, not WaPo.

Emily
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I’m sorry about your brother in law Rollo.

Any good statistics for how the suicide rate has changed over the years?

The 7 out of 10 figure is astonishing, really. It definitely shows how dysfunctional modern culture is.

rugby11
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“They have no honor, truth, virtue of character.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EppwdVmDHb8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q0X1Qg5rGw

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SJF
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@Elite Manhood

So. What?

Is your loser-hood dedicated to?

Why bother making a comment?

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virtue of character
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wht9r_iNYCQ

truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9kVWyvIh68

honor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_lAfB0oqoY

Dreaming calls to me… Resting in the arm’s of…

Anonymous Reader
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kfg
g
“TIME still exists?”

Almost forgot!

Obligatory stoner video #1

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kfg
TIME still exists?”

Oh, yeah, man. For sure. Obligatory bonus stoner video.

SJB
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“If women are not perceived to be fully within the structures of power, surely it is power that we need to redefine rather than women?” Beard points out.
(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/books/review-women-power-manifesto-mary-beard.html)

I’m sure the phrase “no matter how many men die along the way” was struck by the editors — can’t tip your hand while riding the wave to Utopia.

Yollo Comanche
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Utopia for the Rich. Idealism for the hopeless.

kfg
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Ah, Mary Beard. AKA “Taleb’s Punching Bag.”

Redefine power, eh? Ya mean like pull the strings of the man who pulls the lever? What a novel idea. Why didn’t women think of that before?

EhIntellect
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@ Mitch

“But it is also true that men have a tendency to not recognize when they need help.”

Men recognize they need help. The system double binds men to MAN UP or SHUT UP or risk career, life losses, betazation when admitting weakness.

Male spaces, men’s social clubs (TRM), men’s athletic clubs, positive masculinity, all serving men’s interests primarily, used to the norm.

Not Born This Morning
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So…. this weird wench was “sexually molested” or “raped” in Hollyweird?……several years ago.

And now Time magazine writes up a pile of bullshit about how the entire world is supposed to give a shit about her “anger”.

Well “Rose”, it’s too late.

It was too late when you emancipated yourself at the age of 15 (not so tender for you) from what little love your parents may have offered you and moved to Hollyweird to whore yourself into wealth and “fame”.

Your deal with the devil is sealed and there’s no getting out of your contract with that.

It’s too late, it’s toooo late…..

Not Born This Morning
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Too Late For Love” Somewhere in the distance I hear the bells ring Darkness settles on the town as the children start to sing And the lady ‘cross the street she shuts out the night A cast of thousands waiting as she turns out the light But it’s too late, too late, too late Too late for love Too late, too late, too late Too late London boys are gazing, girls go hand in hand A pocket full of innocence, the entrance is grand The queen of the dream stands before them all She stretches out her hand as the… Read more »

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Oh shit. NBTM went full Leppard.

O.B.I.T.
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Well then it’s time for some Procol Harum …

I’m thinking of renting a villa in France
A French girl has offered to give me a chance
Or maybe I’ll take an excursion to Spain
Buy a revolver, and blow out my brains

But the point here is that the very next song takes a much healthier approach to getting zeroed:

I’m buying an island
Somewhere in the sun
I’ll hide from the natives
Live only on rum

status confirmed
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Thank you for writing this, Rollo. This blog, and the commenters, have convinced me that I’m not crazy or some kind of eccentric because I don’t buy into what the broader society and culture are selling.

For anyone considering suicide as a sensible option, please cut out alcohol for a month if you’re a drinker. The times when I’ve gone black pill, I’ve noticed my alcohol consumption had crept way up. Cut out the booze for a short time and positive solutions look like a better idea.

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David Berg had some strong game… Love Bombing The expression has also been used to describe the tactics used by pimps and gang members to control their victims,[11] as well as to describe the behavior of an abusive narcissist who tries to win the confidence of a victim.[12][13] Modern social media can intensify the effect of love bombing since it enables the abuser with nearly constant contact and communication with the victim.[14] One of the signs of love bombing in the start of a relationship is much attention in short time, and pressure for very rapid commitment.[15] It is often… Read more »

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@ ehintellect I don’t disagree with that regarding men as a category. I’m talking abt individual men who get to the point in their thinking that suicide is a rational, or best option and do the deed. When a man gets to this point, or sees himself going there he needs to recognize that somethings wrong and admit to himself that he may need help. Men are naturally predisposed not to ask for help in these circumstances. Someone made a comment above about how interesting it was that the suicide rate among black men is low compared to whites, and… Read more »

Sentient
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Mitch – you having bad thoughts?

Emily
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Wow I just looked up that Time thing… Ugh.

It’s just another instance of the left changing the definition of words, awards and etc. into whatever they want. Integrity, consistency and truth be damned!

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Hi Mitch, “My theory would be that blacks are generally more socially embedded and connected to family, friends etc.” Yes, fraternity shares the risk of freewill, falling off the cliff. “They arent as much the rugged individualists that white Anglo men are.” Not true. Look, Mitch. There are universals at play here. This is a race and class neutral issue. AWALT for a reason, right? Rollo commented above about this. There is and there is not. Try this: Consider existence controlled by unrevokable basic rules, simply understood, if you could read them. Everything else, demographics and otherwise is distracting static… Read more »

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@ Mitch I read the comment concerning black men and suicide, but resisted the urge to respond because I’ve made a choice to try to keep race out of my commentary as much as possible. Regardless of social and cultural happenings, we are all men in the final analysis. But I think it might be of some use to many if I post up my thoughts and experience as to why black men don’t normally commit suicide at rates comparable to our white brothers. In part, you are correct about the influence ( and backing ) of family and friends.… Read more »

Sentient
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Hey Mitch – Ukrainicorn get her conditional temporary GC yet?

Sentient
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Blax

but history is being quietly rewritten to frame the civil rights era as something radical and unamerican, full of Marxists and communists.

Err… you might want to check that.

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Blax, thanks for your comments. I am also uncomfortable making sweeping statements wrt especially race, and think it can easily distract from the topic at hand – as well as the universal nature of mens experience living in the FI. And you may be right about the future suicide rate for black males rising, but your given reasons for that underscore my point – that social embededness is a bulwark against suicide. That’s why I brought it up. ( incidently, I read Black Boy by Richard Wright awhile back, about his experience growing up in the jim crow south. And… Read more »

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@ Sentient

I luv you man, but I don’t have to check. I was there living. It wasn’t something that was distant and happening to someone else that I had to read about after the fact.

I see what’s being said in retrospect, with an agenda. Constitutional rights aren’t Marxist or communist. Not unamerican either. People trying to stop these things are the suspect ones.

Sentient
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Mitch – “Things are going well.”. Phase 1 complete.

Blax – “Constitutional rights aren’t Marxist or communist. Not unamerican either.” when they are supported by Marxists/Communists/Progressives?

Blaximus
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* sigh *

Sentient
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Blax – you can get a pass… this stuff started before you were born.

Henry Winston perhaps?

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1939

http://digicoll.manoa.hawaii.edu/socmovements/Libraries/imagelibrary/3790-1755thumbnail.gif

1941

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1964 (with Gus Hall)

etc etc etc…

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Lol. Don’t require a ‘ pass ‘. I trace my ‘ roots ‘ in this country back to the 1760’s,

I have a pretty good handle on things, books written by others aside.

There’s that ‘ others ‘ thing I’ve been talking about all thread long.

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5% of the Atlantic slave trade was US bound. It was a business deal. Those who were powerful, subjugated the weak. Race had nothing to do with it. Here’s a multiracial enslavment effort: “Murad’s crew, made up of Dutchmen, Moroccans, Algerians and Ottoman Turks, launched their covert attack on the remote village on June 20, 1631. They captured 107 villagers, mostly English settlers along with some local Irish people (some reports put the number as high as 237[3]). The attack was focused on the area of the village known to this day as the Cove. The villagers were put in… Read more »

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For those interested in the “others”…

http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/9/5/1949-photo-benjamin-davis-henry-winston-member-communist-party-crime-nyc-men-6df8550300b20e9b5c2cc26bab8e43d9.jpg

Henry Winston and Benjamin Davis. Left out Davis’ numerous books… such as

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1963

theasdgamer
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@Sentient Blax is totally in “protect the commies” mode because so many civil rights workers were communists. Very understandable. Just as it’s understandable that whites oppose civil rights because it was perceived as a commie plot. Which it was. Two tribes at war with whites having a fifth column within. And all blacks were slaves. https://www.theroot.com/did-black-people-own-slaves-1790895436 And blacks did not own white slaves. Except in Virginia, for a time. Only blacks were discriminated against. “Irish need not apply.” Ok, maybe a few white Catholics experienced discrimination. In 1642, the Colony of Virginia enacted a law prohibiting Catholic settlers. Five years… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“Othering”

That was a trendy pejorative in undergrad. Undifferentiated social shaming tactics for political ends. No different than “toxic masculinity”.

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Chump No More
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Humans are hard wired to be tribal, “othering’ is what we do best.

theasdgamer
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Consent can be withdrawn at will…even after the fact.

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fleezer
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“For anyone considering suicide as a sensible option, please cut out alcohol for a month if you’re a drinker.” I fucking love drugs more than just about anybody I’ve ever met. there was a period of time where I was snorting stuff I’d find in parking lots. watching people flip the fuck out on psychs was a favorite hobby. k-holes, coke benders, benzo blackouts. snorting piles of crushed oxy. fucking everything. so I type this not from a place of judgment but long term observation as a drug user among drug users… alcohol is the most dangerous drug currently available… Read more »

Mitch
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Mitch
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…and think it can easily distract from the topic at hand – as well as the universal nature of mens experience living in the FI.

To reiterate what I said about bring race into the discussion. Sorry I brought it up. Fwiw I read blax’s comment about civil rights as saying the progressive regime today is co-opting and the original movement and perverting those ideals for its own destructive agenda. I would agree with that.

Blaximus
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asd

I knew you were gonna say exactly what you said. lol.

Jim Crow, lynching, rape, murder and general fuckery isn’t important. Whatabout commies?

That’s key.

Predictable.

Always.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/whataboutism-what-about-it/2017/08/17/4d05ed36-82b4-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b_story.html?utm_term=.4d729547437c

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-03/in-defense-of-some-whataboutism

Most rational people I know don’t care about commies or progressives or right wingers or any labels. There are real problems to deal with. All that labeling shit might as well be Dragons and Dungeons for comfortable people with nothing real to concern themselves with.

I hear more ” communist/Marxist ” talk on the web than I hear anywhere else. Lol.

Sentient
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Mitch

the progressive regime today is co-opting and the original movement and perverting those ideals for its own destructive agenda. I would agree with that.

And that is naive because as you can see from the Primary Source Documents written by the historical CPUSA actors, these ‘ideals” were always part of the Communist/Marxist/Progressive agenda from post WWI on…

Oscar C.
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Oscar C.
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@Mitch True. I recall reading a while ago that something like that was behind the high suicide rate in Finland. The idea that you had to sort yourself out, on your own. To me this white vs. black suicide difference in America has a lot to do with self-perception too. Blacks are accustomed to be poor, and downtrodden up to a extent. Living on food stamps is likely not such a big deal for them after all. They might even chalk them up as “reparations”. For many whites such conditions seem to be terribly humiliating. When I started reading about… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Last comment on the subject ( I knew it was gonna go downhill….) then I am done. Ideologies are detrimental when the blind you to the point that as a man you can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong. If one can understand the FI and feminism, the things I mentioned should be a no brainer unless there’s some ideological agenda preventing acceptance of truths. Like Blue Pilled dudes. Gotta stick to a narrative, no matter what. Me right, You wrong. It’s odd to see men that can see the detrimental effects of feminism on men, especially… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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Mitch Negroes in a Soviet America – Published by Workers Library Publishers in 1935. Workers Library Publishers was the Workers Party of America’s New York City-based publishing house for pamphlets, focusing on propaganda pamphlets official Workers Party magazines. (International Publishers was the party’s book publishing house.) Founded in 1921, the Workers Party of America was the name of the legal party organization that supported the Marxist-Lenin ideology. Before establishing its own publishing houses, the Workers Party published a number of items under its own imprint, or in association with the Daily Worker, the party’s newspaper. At the group’s 1925 convention,… Read more »

Mitch
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Sentient, That commies were involved in pushing civil rights back in the day doesn’t negate the mainstream liberal (in the classical sense) ideal of the dignity of the individual man and his inalienable rights to pursue life, liberty, yada yada. The denial of these rights to blacks, as it was rationalized in this country, was based on denial of their full personhood. Though commies thought they’d get in on that action, that ideology wasn’t what ultimately drove the movement. . Today though? I’d say the progressive regime, feminism, blk, trans, etc, is absolutely communism having reinvented itself, having achieved what… Read more »

Sentient
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Blax

Jim Crow only brings cries of marxist and communists.

What’s bringing cries is your ahistorical notion that the Communist/Marxist/Progressive forces did not have an influence on what became the Civil rights movement – many years later – and that many of those same folks took up the cause of Civil Rights.

Mitch
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Mitch
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*blm
As in black lives matter

Sentient
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Sentient
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Mitch

That commies were involved in pushing civil rights back in the day doesn’t negate the mainstream liberal (in the classical sense) ideal of the dignity of the individual man and his inalienable rights to pursue life, liberty, yada yada.

1. Never said anything about negating.

2. Be careful with the whole liberty, equality, fraternity thing… Recall the whole phrase

comment image

That Ou La Mort does not mean what you may think it means…

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Oh, one last observation for the commenters tying back into the OP. You have to have a thick skin in life. When people have an alternative narrative concerning you and who you are and what you’re about, you must recognize that for what it is and not let it effect you. What happens, I think, with many men in life is that they aren’t used to being attacked or degraded or misrepresented by ” others “, they lose it and fall apart. The stuff Senty and asd are saying, I , along with most people I know, have been hearing… Read more »

Blaximus
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PS

99% of black people never heard of James Ford or James Allen, and gave no fucks at all…..

Sentient
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Sentient
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Blax You are cracking me up on this The stuff Senty and asd are saying, I , along with most people I know, have been hearing some version of this out entire lives. It’s incorrect and pervasive and it never stops – If You Pay Attention To It and Give It Gravitas. One can choose to be ignorant or not pay attention to factual events that happened. But it isn’t going to change history, or what actually happened. Your premise: history is being quietly rewritten to frame the civil rights era as something radical and unamerican, full of Marxists and… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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Blax

I’m sure a large percentage haven’t heard of Marcus Garvey either… or Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.

So?

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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@ Oscar ” To me this white vs. black suicide difference in America has a lot to do with self-perception too. Blacks are accustomed to be poor, and downtrodden up to a extent. Living on food stamps is likely not such a big deal for them after all. They might even chalk them up as “reparations”.” Jesus. False narrative big time. Working-class whites are the biggest beneficiaries of federal poverty-reduction programs, even though blacks and Hispanics have substantially higher rates of poverty, according to a new study to be released Thursday by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Government… Read more »

j
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j
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“Communists/Marxists/Progressive where always part of the civil rights movement from its earliest formation”

comment image

https://twitter.com/_Based_British/status/926267985144307713

Blaximus
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Mitch
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@Oscar
Yeah I think pride is a factor too, in that it inhibits one from asking for help – and I’m talking specifically about emotional, psych help, not food stamps and whatnot.

Rugged Individualism is a real “thing”, its part of the founding psyche of this country – and part of what made it great, imo. But there’s a hidden trap there too, if you can’t ever admit that you might need others.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Ok. The discussion is turning to dumb, racial propaganda shit. Lets just agree to disagree.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

Sentient
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Sentient
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Can you see Bayard Rustin in that pic?

Sentient
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Sentient
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Mitch
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Mitch
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Sentient, I think I see your point about the French revolution, and while I can’t speak with a whole lot of knowledge about the differences between that and the American, I think they are significant. The FR was certainly a catastrophe in ways the AR was not- it gives me shivers to think about. You might say it was even a perversion of the ideals of the AR – though I’m not about to claim much knowledge in this area. Others may have better insight. Still, regardless of the extent of commie influence in the civil rights era, I still… Read more »

Oscar C.
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Oscar C.
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@Blax

Thanks for the info. I lean left but I always end up reading right-wing stuff, I can’t help it. I am always attracted to people who is not like me (particularly girls lol).

So yeah, the communists surely saw an opportunity for agitation in the Jim Crow system but the problem was there before them.

Sentient
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Sentient
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Mitch

I think we could agree that whats come after civil rights is the progression of that commie influence.

Progressive progression. Yes I agree. But where did it start?

theasdgamer
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The discussion is turning to dumb, racial propaganda shit.

Big of you to confess it.

j
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theasdgamer
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@Blax Jim Crow, lynching, rape, murder and general fuckery isn’t important. Funny, I didn’t see you planting any fucks in your field when several (5+ men, IIRC) older white men were being murdered in Kansas City this year by a black man who posted racist rants on fb. So you think we should give any fucks about a couple of civil rights (cough-communist-cough) workers who were lynched in the South many decades ago? For sure, there were Jim Crow laws, but they have been gone for decades. Try to find something current. And blacks murder many more whites than whites… Read more »

theasdgamer
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A veritable sea of communist.
Lol.

Communists indeed, as are most elites, women, and minorities today. It sucks. You’re so hooked in to the Matrix, Blax.

Mitch
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Mitch
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Sentient,
What, you think the civil rights movement originated w/ Marx and the commies? Ah, nooo, civil rights grew out of a long, slow process that started well before the civil war, with Christians awakening to the idea that actually blacks are really and truly people too, and principles embedded in our constitution are in conflict with that. Roughly. Ill have to dig up some shit to back that up, which I don’t have access to now, but the commies were johnny-come-latelys to the party.

Mitch
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Mitch
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Sentient,
What, you think the civil rights movement originated w/ Marx and the commies? ah, nooo, civil rights grew out of a long, slow process that started well before the civil war, with white Christians awakening to the idea that actually blacks are in fact people too, and principles embedded in our constitution are in conflict with that. Roughly. Ill have to dig up some shit to back that up, which I don’t have access to now, but the commies were johnny-come-latelys to the party.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Asd says ” whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout “.

Please, stop proving my points and just drop it. I’ve known for years just who You are and how You feel.

Lol.

Fucking manosphere….

SJF
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SJF
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“Fucking manosphere….” Avoid the noise and the dirty-ness of it. Ian Ironwood describes it (The Manosphere) as a Dirty Comet. The current discussion is just noise that can be filtered out. As regards to the Manosphere: the unifying principal happens to be Men and Masculinity and issues related to that. .  Beyond that, all bets are off. I waded through the bullshit like a champ four years ago. And decided and discriminated. And got to the meat of the discussion. “For every Roissy or RooshV-style PUA “Jedi Master” out there, there are also thousands of men who participate in small… Read more »

Mitch
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Mitch
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Ok, as I’m going back re-reading trying to figure out why in the hell we’re arguing about communists in the civil rights era, and what that has to do with suicide, ads and sentient are reacting to Blax’ statement about reactionaries quietly re-writing the history of civil rights as being communist plot. From the comments that sounds about right. Ok, so lets stipulate commies were in fact intrinsically involved in the civil rights movement. And? What’s your point? I don’t understand. Sentient, you agree that fact doesn’t negate the classical liberal principles that are in conflict with slavery and jim… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Anonymous Reader
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Blaximus Zeroing out begins in your mind. Viktor Frankl went to the edge of the death strip in a Nazi concentration camp and gave lectures on Logotherapy to the dirt and trees in order to have a purpose, to avoid despair. Marines and pilots starving on a single ball of rice per day in a Japanese prison camp in the Phillippine jungle made up elaborate menus for the dinners they intended to have in San Francisco after the war, in order to avoid despair. The history of the 20th century alone is stuffed full of “it begins in your mind”,… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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Well, that the blacks developed psychological buffers against disappointment was a point apart from the role of commies and commie mentality in firing up and championing civil rights. Commie mentality aligns well with the notion that poor little Wimpy deserves a life too. The more uncommie, the less the qualms about invading a continent and icing the natives if not for anything, but for the fact that they have smaller guns.

theasdgamer
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@Mitch At first, the civil rights movement embraced the commies. This brought about backlash from white America. Then the civil rights movement whitewashed the association of the civil rights movement with the commies. So now, mentioning the association of the civil rights movement with the commies brings about a reaction of defending commies. And an attempt to whitewash the association yet again. Blax was attempting another Watergate-style cover up. I really don’t care about any of the association shit, but I care about the reaction to defend commies and whitewash the association. Why the suicide difference between whites and blacks?… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Mitch It’s on me because I knew how this was probably gonna go, especially once asd got involved with the same exact talking points and bullshit statistics he always trots out. Agenda. Autism. Lol. I was only trying to give my perspective as a black man living in America for 5 decades. Instead I hear about murder rates and communists and marriage rates and basically an assload of guessing from the outside. Lol, mother fuckers know better than me. But it’s refreshing to hear that all women and minorities are communists. I’ll let that sentiment stand on its own merits… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Isn’t it time for your weekly dance or something?

j
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j
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@blax

Lmaooo

Mitch
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Mitch
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Ads, ok point taken. This conversation has probably been had before and I missed it . lol. It is a complicated business trying to tease out the various intellectual strains that inform history and politics, for sure. But I will maintain that the intellectual strain informing the ‘official’ narrative was in process well before the civil war, and waaay before marx. I think what’s important is the idea that the communist strain of thought is what mutated out of the civil rights era into the identity politics we deal with today. And that doesn’t negate the idea that it was… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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“I was only trying to give my perspective as a black man living in America for 5 decades. Instead I hear about murder rates and communists and marriage rates and basically an assload of guessing from the outside.” Noise. Fucking Noise. Drowning out the real message. Breath deeply. And relax. It’s all just noise. We are here to talk about sex and fucking women. And it is Testing. Testing never ends. You don’t merely pass a test. You used it to your advantage. Blaximus, I’ve never seen a more masculine perspective, ever, in the manosphere, than what you give. And… Read more »

boulderhead
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Ismism LOL. SJF’s fire is primalism the best kind.

theasdgamer
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j, can you suck my dick after you’re finished sucking Blax’s dick?

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