Men and Suicide

Before I launch in here today I need to confess that this post has been in my drafts folder for a while now. As most of my readers are aware I’ve known two personal friends who’ve taken their own lives as a result of having their Blue Pill conditioned beliefs set them on a path to self destruction. One of the more important parts of my charter when I started writing was to reach the men who were at their wits’ end in figuring out how to deal with their personal, romantic or married lives that had until then been directed by what their Blue Pill acculturation and their understanding of intersexual dynamics were molded to be. Since I started and stopped and then restarted this topic again there have been a few recent developments in my perspective on men taking their own lives as a result of the Blue Pill’s influence on them.

All of this really began about two months ago while I was engaging in a debate (or what passes for debate) on Twitter with a very unsympathetic woman who thought she’d set me straight about why it is men choose to take their own lives at a far greater rate than women. As it stands today, men are statistically between 4 and 5 times more likely than women to kill themselves. For most Red Pill aware men this is a fairly well known stat and one that gets quoted often enough when women trot out their own stats about abuse or whatever issue they think it is that MRA are ‘confused’ about. They usually get owned when this sort of back and forth goes down, but I’m always drawn to the comparative issues women think are equitable to that of men losing their lives.

Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere. Sperm is cheap, eggs are scarce and men are expected to sacrifice their lives for the security and betterment of women even in the most patriarchal of prior social orders. It’s always interesting to me that issues of mandatory male conscription into the military (potential death) and the unignorable high male suicide rates are something women still won’t accept as being a pretty raw deal for men. Women’s innate solipsism will still compel women to find some “yeah, but;…” rationalization for men’s disposability. Whenever I bring something like this up the reflexive presumption is that I’m bemoaning men’s victim status for being disposable. However, it’s impossible to discuss male disposability without such a connotation. My issues isn’t one of seeking some equitable disposability for women, but rather it’s drawing attention to the way women react and rationalize away their own part in that disposability.

True Powerlessness

I covered a lot of this in Chivalry vs. Altruism, so I won’t belabor that here, but I will point out the inherent power imbalance in this disposability. I’ve stated in the past that true power is not the control we can exert over the lives of others, but rather the extent to which we have control over the direction of our own lives. When we discuss issues of power between men and women the real, ultimate, loss of that control is in the context of our deaths.

There is no greater powerlessness for men than a lack of control over our own disposability.

Again, this isn’t some cry of victimhood for men – I happen to believe there’s an evolved component in the male psychological firmware that actually predisposes us to sacrificing ourselves in lieu of the security of our women and children. That’s not so much altruism as it is an inborn subroutine for protecting women that triggers in life-threatening situations. When a mass shooter opens fire indiscriminately at a crowd of people it is the men, not the women, who instinctively put their bodies between that gun and women or children, even the one’s they don’t personally know.

In the bigger scope of things, men will always be more disposable than women, and on some level of consciousness women’s hindbrains instinctively understand this. As such, women’s conscious process must find ways to reconcile this understanding in order for them to move on from men’s sacrifices. Sometimes this can manifest in the War Brides phenomenon, but I would argue that in today’s social learning environment of mass media, instant gratification of women’ solipsism and feminine-primary social order, this reconciliation takes some even uglier turns. Today, women have become very efficient in consoling each other’s solipsistic rationalizing of men’s sacrifices. In this environment of default female victimization and presumed oppression even men’s ultimate sacrifice, men’s ultimate powerlessness in their own deaths, cannot ever be consciously or unconsciously acknowledged in a state of fempowerment.

While I had this debate it occurred to me that even men’s suicides could never be attributed to anything less than their own ‘male egos’ by women, thus making them victims of their conditioning into “toxic” masculinity. Essentially, women were arguing that men would put a noose around their necks because they were socially conditioned to do so. Their suicide rate was attributable to their self-pity and inability to be ‘real men’ as some nebulous toxic masculinity had predefined for them. I thought this was kind of ironic when you compare this reasoning to the narrative shift away from ‘toxic’ masculinity to masculinity itself is toxic. This is really a stupid argument when you consider that it’s just another social convention used to absolve women of the guilt associated with men’s sacrifices. Men are hardwired for self sacrifice, but likewise women had need to evolved psychological adaptations to help them clear the red from their life’s ledger in this respect.

So, in the end, it helps if women can fall back on social conventions that put the associated guilt of men’s sacrifices back on the men themselves. Chivalry and traditional masculinity are fine when they serve the Feminine Imperative, but if a man actually gets killed or kills himself as part of that, well, that’s on him then. And this is what I was beginning with in this debate; there will always be a desire for absolution of women’s guilt or complicity in the deaths of men. I should also add that in terms of war and men being drafted women regularly default to the same asinine presumption that if women were running the world that there would be no wars. I won’t dignify that with any deeper analysis than to say that this too is one more (feeble) way of looking for absolution in the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality.

Suicide Solution

That still left the question, why do men take their own lives in such alarmingly high numbers compared to women? I had to do a bit of research on this, but the demographics for male suicide today show some patterns. 7 in 10 suicides are men (majority white) between the ages of 45 and 65. As expected from gynocentric media, the primary reason always cited is men’s so called stubbornness in seeking out psychiatric help before they attempt suicide – again absolving women’s influence of any complicity – but ignoring what would motivate men, and this demographic in particular, to suicide. Again, there’s no attempt to understand the underlying reasons for male suicide, only a stereotypically easy ‘male-stupid’ answer to absolve women’s complicity in it.

There’s a lot to consider and be sensitive of when it comes to male suicide, but I’m going to speculate about a few reasons here coming from a Red Pill perspective. At no other time in western history has there ever been a generation of more purposeless men. From an evolved psychological perspective, men need a function. We are innate idealists. We look outward at the world and like to imagine what could be possible. I believe there is also an innate part of our evolved mental firmware that predisposes us to problem solving and improvisation, and much of that comes as an adaptation to women’s own innate need for men who can display cues of competency.

In Competency I made the case for women’s attraction to men displaying signals of competency, confidence, mastery and creative intelligence as a selected-for survival adaptation. In short, our competency in life, whether stemming from physical prowess, social dominance or creative intelligence is integrally linked with our reproductive success as well as overall life success.

However, at no other time in history has men’s competency been so devalued and so debased; other than perhaps in terms of physical prowess and accommodating the short term (Alpha Fucks) breeding imperatives of women. At no other time in (western) history has the equity in what a man can provide or create or solve been so implicitly unnecessary or superfluous to women. When we consider the rates of college enrollment and graduation of women compared to that of men, when we consider the practical problems that men used to solve, our utility has never been less needed – or at least that’s the zeitgeist of today.

We read about how men need to accept this new social reality – that our need for purpose and function is no longer needed or as valued – and we need to change our headspace about it as if it were something men might simply turn off. This is the result of equalist beliefs that anything gender-specific is something learned rather than the innate firmware we were born with. But we cannot simply change our minds about needing a function. We evolved to be problem solvers, women talk, men do, but now we are expected to accept that men are obsolete.

Loss of Utility

In Relational Equity I made a case for men investing too much of their egos into what intrinsic (and extrinsic) value they believe their respective women ought to appreciate about themselves. Under the old books, old social contract this equity may have had some conditional value to women, but as a buffer against Hypergamy today there is very little a man might consider value-added equity (unless it’s exceedingly rare or exceedingly valued) as a hedge against Hypergamy. Before any defeatist critics tell me how not all women are like that, yes, I get it, there are a lot of variables to consider here, but the equation and the reality doesn’t change – relational equity, overall, is no insurance against Hypergamy. It is also no insurance against women’s security and providership needs being met by resources that come from outside that relationship. I’m not considering this because I’m trying to depress any man, but it is vitally necessary to consider when we look at reasons why 45-65 year old men are predisposed to higher rates of suicide and higher rates of alcoholism and opioid abuse.

I would argue that a major contributing factor to high male suicide rates finds its origins in men’s need for purpose, function and accomplishment during this phase of life. Every day I read an article about how men my own age are dropping out of social discourse. I mentioned a Boston Globe article about just this phenomenon in Male Control. In some respects I can understand that despite the unprecedented connectivity we enjoy today men really don’t seek out bonds with other men. This is primarily due to the fact that men need a common purpose in order to form these bonds. Again, this is just how we’re wired. Women intentionally schedule time to simply interact with their same-sex friends just for the sake of communicating and enjoying the act of communicating. Men need function or a common purpose to come together. We need an activity or a problem to solve and then we communicate and form bonds.

Women talk, men do. This is a well studied fact; our brains and, by extension, social networks largely center on purpose and function. Now, lets presume that in spite of having literally all the information in the world at our finger tips we remove all need for the utility that men are wired to provide to not just women, but the larger scope of Society. We get a generation of men on the outside looking in. Only the most creative, resourceful and motivated of men can really utilize, much less master, all that this information has to offer him. And even a portion of those men can really see past the antipathy of their supposed obsolescence to do something truly meaningful or masterful. As the saying goes, most men live lives of quiet desperation, but in the modern era these men are demonstrably useless. And I mean that in a functional sense; once a Beta man has been wrung of his utility to women, he ceases to be able to convince his hindbrain that he can build, improvise or solve things.

Once a man is stripped of his usefulness, once it’s made clear that all of the equity he believed would support his relationship has been erased after so long, men will still resort to practical, deductive solutions. That solution may be suicide when weighed with the prospect of having to rebuild himself in a new context; and even if he did would he just be building a new ‘him’ based on his old belief set?

When my brother in-law committed suicide it seemed to me at the time to be the most logical end he would come to. He was a man very steeped in Blue Pill ideals, but he was also a man who prided himself on what he could do – and if he didn’t know how to do something he was always a fast learner. He literally built his life, and expectations of a future life, around the relational equity he believed defined him as a man. He was very invested in the old books, old social contract that rooted a man’s attractiveness and quality in what it was he could do. What he built for himself and his wife defined his identity.

All of that 20+ years of building equity and an identity based on it was erased for him in the space of about six months. But it was more than the 20 years he’d been saving, building, solving and refining, it was a perceived future he believed would be lived out for the rest of his life that got erased.

To me, at that time, his suicide made absolutely perfect sense from a male-deductive logic perspective. What didn’t make sense was all of the endless rationalizations I heard from his family, friends, his kids, his Ex (my now widowed sister in-law) about why they thought he went through with it when it was plain for anyone who wanted to confront the truth to see. A lot of these rationales were almost verbatim the same that the article I linked used. “If only men would reach out when they have suicidal thoughts”, any and every rationale that might absolve his Ex of the guilt, and still more that were meant to console her (he must’ve been mental ill) though in the end she really didn’t need it.

My brother in-law made a practical decision not an emotional one, and while I wouldn’t presume to say that a guy’s emotional state isn’t very influential in his suicide, how he comes to the decision is very much attributable to men’s deductive nature. He showed no outward signs of emotional distress. In fact, right up to his hanging himself he was in very good spirits and seemingly accepting of the fact that the wife he lived his life for was going to be leaving him soon. He was very matter of fact in a way that men are when they’ve resolved something for themselves. When a guy seems to be taking things in stride we don’t want to create a problem where we see none.

When we look in this context at the high rate of male suicide in this age demographic we begin to see how men come to this decision. Everything they’ve built up to 45-65 years of age is now debased, devalued or simply erased. All of the value and equity they’ve committed their lives to – doing the right thing according to their Blue Pill conditioning – is as if it never mattered. So they’re confronted with a choice, rebuild themselves (hopefully in a new Red Pill aware paradigm), reconstruct a new life and tough it out, or, simply, pragmatically erase themselves.

Personally, I’ve had at least two occasions where I’ve been confronted with rebuilding myself. It’s a tough prospect, make no mistake, especially when you’re Red Pill aware and understand the reality behind having to rebuild a life from scratch after so much investment in plans and projects you truly believed in when you made them. My father had to confront this rebuilding too at around 55 years of age, but rather than rebuild or kill himself I watched him slowly decay into a man I never knew could exist as my dad.

Zeroed Out

I apologize if this topic is a bit of a downer, but I think it ought to be part of any Red Pill aware man’s understanding that at many points in our lives we will be confronted with the prospects of having to rebuild ourselves. Failure, rejection and disappointment will happen for you, that’s just part of a man’s life, and it’s easy to rattle off platitudes about how many times you get back up being the measure of a man. But what I’m saying is there will be times when total reconstruction of your life will be a necessity.

You will be zeroed out at some point, and how you handle this is a much different situation than any temporary setback. This zeroing out is made all the more difficult when you confront the fact that what you believed to be so valuable, the equity you were told was what others would measure you by, was all part of your Blue Pill conditioning. At that point you need to understand that there is most definitely a hope for a better remake of yourself based on truths that were learned in the hardest way.

To end this I’m going to quote the comment of a man I met when I spoke at the 21 Convention in September. I won’t use his name, but after we talked he confessed that he was the commenter here. He’d made the trip to the convention to meet me face to face, to thank me for my work and gave me permission to use his example in a post. I won’t quote it entirely, but you can read the whole thing here. His situation is an example of, and inspiration for, everything I’ve illuminated in this essay

After a long marriage I divorced the mother of my children. A couple of years later, after some casual dating, I met a woman I would come to describe as my soulmate. I got married young – but this time, with all my infinite wisdom gained over the years – I was finally wise enough to pick a woman I was super compatible with.

We were together for a few years and even lived together. Things started out great and it was mostly smooth sailing until we moved in together – at which time I slowly allowed myself to be betaized in a slow motion, excruciating painful way.

About a month after breaking up with her I fully planned to commit suicide. I wrote a long letter explaining my rationalization and took other affirmative steps towards going through with it. About a week after I wrote the note – with D(eath) Day fast approaching – I took a break from getting my affairs in order to surf the net. I stumbled upon an Ask Reddit thread that was bad mouthing various subreddits. Some feminazi or male feminist mentioned the Red Pill subreddit as an example of a subreddit filled with craziness, and I decided to check what all of the fuss was about. Now

I’m not a religious man, but I will never rule out divine intervention. The timing of finding TRP – by complete coincidence no less – couldn’t have been more fortuitous. I stayed up all night reading the side bar – Rollo’s essays having the deepest effect on me – and everything…just…clicked….Talk about connecting the dots! Wow! It was very much like a come to Jesus moment. It was like divinity revealed secret knowledge to me just when I needed it the most – knowledge that gave me hope and very well may have saved my life. This all went down not really that long ago in actual time – but from where I metaphorically stand now it seems like an eternity.

Stay strong my friends, you can rebuild yourself even in the face of being zeroed out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

666 comments on “Men and Suicide

  1. Asd(ickhead)

    I’m kidding.

    I ordered you a bushel of fidget spinners from Amazon. You should get them in 2 days. Hold on there lil fella.

  2. With male suicide being such a big problem, I can’t see how Rollo COULD ignore it. I brought it up to Mrs. Gamer and she couldn’t give a fuck about it. Not surprising, but maybe enlightening to some. Women can’t face certain facts. Mrs. Gamer cares about women’s issues to some degree…being abused, for example…single mommyhood…things I don’t give a fuck about. Mrs. Gamer will donate toys for kids…I know how charities are constantly being hustled, so I don’t cosign Mrs. Gamer’s charitable activities.

    Has anyone else discussed male suicide with their wives or gf’s?

  3. Man you guys sure like to argue over trivial shit, lol.

    How bout we get down to what everyone is really saying here.

    Most minorities don’t give a shit about communism or marxism or whatever. Especially way back when, during the time when they were more oppressed. They just cared about keeping their jobs, getting food on the table, and not getting lynched.

    However, the mindsets that they have and had, tend to align more on socialist/collectivist ideologies. Women in particular are naturally about everyone being equal, everyone gets their share, and very much not meritorious (unlike men). Minorities tend to be about the extended family, they have big families (hispanics in particular) and their countries of origin don’t have a long history of western liberal values (dictator, big speaker, chieftain…not so much parliament and constitutional republics).

    So I think that ASD and blax are both right. No, your average civil rights activist wasn’t protesting in order to bring down the bourgeois and create a soviet america (although clearly there WERE many communists in that group), however, a lot of their views of how america should be organized WERE socialist in character — that’s why as those people have gained more influence over time, they’ve pushed for socialist policies and elected representatives that pass those policies and that’s where we are at now in america with SJW and identity politics and all that mess.

    Lets ignore that though. Lets keep finding petty little things to argue over and find that one sliver of disagreement amongst all the areas we all agree with, and turn it into a flurry of insults like usual.

    for supposedly alpha men you guys sure to like to act a lot like teenage girls at high school

  4. Mitch

    What, you think the civil rights movement originated w/ Marx and the commies? ah, nooo, civil rights grew out of a long, slow process that started well before the civil war, with white Christians awakening to the idea that actually blacks are in fact people too, and principles embedded in our constitution are in conflict with that.

    Oh Mitch… Equalist thought has preceded the civil rights movement, women’s suffrage, the communist revolutions, abolitionism, the French revolution and the American revolution…

  5. Blax

    an assload of guessing from the outside.

    Guessing? Not hardly.. Your 1963 March organizers were former CP members, then Socialists… No guess required. Knowledge yes.

  6. “SJF’s fire is primalism the best kind.”

    No. Tribalism.

    And discrimination for what matters. Discriminating what works.

    What are we actually talking about. And Why?

    Get your purpose down. What are you angling for?

    Take action. Chose among what life presents to you. And be your best.

    Women are just women. They are not a negative.

    If you are a seeing it as so. You have problems with women, you have problems with women. It is better to not have problems with women. The are a compliment to your life. Not a focus of it.

  7. @Hank

    I agree that the average minority person didn’t study commie theory at Sun Yat-sen University in Moscow and couldn’t care less about commie theory…it’s purely about his own personal interests…W. E. B. DuBois fought against Jim Crow laws, so DuBois is a good guy.

    The commies were the founders of the civil rights organizations and led those organizations until the commies were exposed. The commies established their frame as the frame for civil rights, trained their successors, and that’s why civil rights has always been communist. You don’t find communist jargon much in civil rights communications, but, like you observed, the socialist character and assumptions underlie the communications.

    But you think that tribal disputes can be papered over. That’s silly. Most black people are bound to the civil rights movement and the civil rights movement is bound to communism. Tribal identity and loyalty.

    White people correctly saw communism as a threat to their well-being. Tribal survival is at risk. Worldwide, the white tribe isn’t reproducing enough to maintain its numbers. It’s dying off. (If you’re white and don’t see that as a problem, wtf is wrong with you?)

    That’s not some trivial issue.

  8. Hank

    Can you explain this picrture –

    Or this one?

    Lulz btw.

    ” However, the mindsets that they have and had, tend to align more on socialist/collectivist ideologies ”

    It’s frustrating that this seems to be so very, very hard to understand being we all were born in the exact same country.

    ” Mindsets ” had to do with being treated ” equally ” under the ” law “. Nothing about socialism or collectivism. Stop ” othering ” fellow americans that only wanted the same things everyone who wasn’t a minority had, and that our nation touted to the rest of the world.

    Anyway, to make a point, the same guys yapping about communist and shit aren’t saying one. single. word. about the actual communists in the oval office. That’s cool…. I guess… so wait, are communist bad or not? Communist influence confirmed by association, or not?

    Which is it?

    Lol, never mind. I don’t need an answer because I already know.

  9. Sentient, like I said, I loves ya man… but you don’t make it easy.

    Not moving goalposts at all. Pointing out blatant, evident hypocrisy. Either communists are bad for americans to associate with, or not.

    If memory serves me ( I might be mistaken…but I doubt it ), the first time any Russians/communist have ever been in the oval office is documented in the pic above.

    I’d have thought all of the commie haters would’ve been up in arms…. lol…. but no. Not a peep.




  10. Since nobody here is a minority like I am. Let me tell you guys something about Hispanics in Florida.

    They may not like being poor like they were in any given shithole south of the equator they rafted in from. BUT, they ALL expect the new generation to both put up with endless streams of drama and bullshit from family members, and they practice a groupthink that totally negates individual accountability.

    So they practice Communism anyway.

  11. ” Lol @ Sentient…those guys were just meeting up for drinks and to chase pussy. They weren’t in a class in a communist school.”

    the more you talk….

    Is it painful being as full of shit as you are?

  12. Blax

    You think Putin is a Communist? I see… Next you will tell me Ryan and McConnell are conservatives. Picture is becoming clear.

  13. No,Putin is a Buddhist.

    Former kgb. You tell me?

    What does he ? If he denies it, we have to believe him. Like trump.

  14. “You know that I, like millions of Soviet citizens, over 20 million, was a member of the Communist Party of the USSR and not only was I a member of the party but I worked for almost 20 years for an organization called the Committee for State Security,” Putin said, referring to the KGB.

    “I was not, as you know, a party member by necessity,” he said. “I liked Communist and socialist ideas very much and I like them still.”

  15. Trump was born in 46. What’s that got to do with Rustin’s membership in the Young Communist League in the 30’s?

  16. ” Trump was born in 46. What’s that got to do with Rustin’s membership in the Young Communist League in the 30’s?”


  17. @Sentient

    The following quote is key to understanding how socialist thought informed civil rights and how socialists set the civil rights agenda:

    Harrington’s perspective—that black equality required not just the abolition of Jim Crow but massive structural changes to the economy—wasn’t his alone. It was also that of the circle of socialists—including Randolph, Rustin, Baker, Horowitz, Kahn, the aging socialist leader Norman Thomas, and, from afar, King—in which he moved.

  18. You haven’t said shit about Jim Crow or anything else relatable to black people except negative, bullshit communist socialist stuff. It’s some kind of intellectual exercise for you.

    Good for you.

    Night Night.

  19. Blax

    “Nothing to admit to”

    I’ll propound my as yet unanswered question again then:

    ” Communists/Marxists/Progressive were always part of the civil rights movement from its earliest formation. Do you agree or are those documents false and the authors don’t exist?”

  20. From suicide to menopause to race to political ideology. I’m a page behind, but I can see from here that this is going nowhere. Come back guys! We need to circle the wagons! The women are taking over!

    So, Franken is resigning and if Moore is elected the plan is to immediately subject him to an ethics investigation.

    It’s like my drive in to work where I pass the car wrecks, because it’s not me and I just have to keep moving.

    Wasn’t it just last month that Franken was berating Sessions and acting like he was so powerful.

    I don’t like any of the accused, but I do, and all of us have our male sex in common.

    It really bothered me when a socially awkward guy in Oregon was kicked out of school and branded a sex offender for life, for fingering an unconscious female friend’s anus. And the efforts that, the FI went through to catch his confession with a hidden microphone.

    It bothered me even more that the insertion of a finger, the depth of a fingerprint into a vagina is full-on prosecutable rape.

    Now, a “credible accusation” concerning a gesture, a word, a vibe, incidental contact going back to the male’s birth is now sexual assault.

    One of the most cunning lies told to us as young men was the idea that the old testament proscription to stone a woman to death in her father’s doorway if she claimed to have been raped in the city but did not cry out, was a horrific, barbaric artifact of an over-the-top woman-hating, male-dominated society.

    Now, we can see that keeping a society, polite or otherwise, requires some really harsh penalties to keep the FI in check.

  21. If

    “Now, we can see that keeping a society, polite or otherwise, requires some really harsh penalties to keep the FI in check.”

    You catch more flies with honey… No Alphas are caught up yet… Be alpha and damn sure stay alpha. There is no statute of limitations on beta.

  22. “Now, a “credible accusation” concerning a gesture, a word, a vibe, incidental contact going back to the male’s birth is now sexual assault”

    I sincerely give my heartfelt apology for pissing all over the maternity nurses, I was born with a piss hard on.

  23. @blax

    because the various racial and cultural groups in America are different.

    They have had, and have, different experiences.

    When immigrants (of all races and cultures) first came to america, they brought with them the ideas of how government should work from their homelands. That sticks with them through many generations.

    Why do liberals want so many brown skinned immigrants? Because they come from socialist/totalitarian countries (latin america, africa, mid east), and so vote democrat more often than not.

    If that wasn’t the case, and they voted republican, democratic politicians would of course be against immigration — as republicans are. So clearly your culture changes how you (most likely) will view government, and how you will vote.

    So, yes, minorities tend to be more socialist — or since that is apparently a loaded term, lets say “pro big gov’t”. Thats an obvious, indisputable fact, and you can see it plain as day in the voting patterns of minorities.

    I don’t see why all this is controversial, or why we are even having this discussion, because as If-I-Fell noted, the FI has fucked up society royally, and men need to work together to fix things…but instead we’ll just debate stupid shit like this and take it personal and all, while rome burns behind us.

    Same stupid shit like marriage debate and RSD debate — who fucking cares, lets just help guys out.

    Nobody, it seems, can just have a civil, impartial discussion of the state of affairs without becoming personally attached to their position and getting angry as fuck when anyone criticizes it.

  24. The socialists coopted the civil rights movement and black people were oblivious to what happened…the black people were “useful idiots” (blame the socialists for that term, not me).

    Blax, that quote I posted was from Sentient’s link to a socialist author describing the influence of socialists on the civil rights movement. I would be thrilled if black folks would truly dissociate themselves from socialism, but ain’t gonna happen because they would have to accept the socialist impact of their civil rights history. My black friend who advised me of the communist origins of the civil rights movement was very unusual.

  25. If-I-Fell
    We need to circle the wagons! The women are taking over!

    You’re about 80 or more years too late.

    So, Franken is resigning

    Maybe Garrison Keillor can take his place.

    and if Moore is elected the plan is to immediately subject him to an ethics investigation.

    That should be entertaining.

    It really bothered me when a socially awkward guy in Oregon was kicked out of school and branded a sex offender for life, for fingering an unconscious female friend’s anus. And the efforts that, the FI went through to catch his confession with a hidden microphone.

    It bothered me even more that the insertion of a finger, the depth of a fingerprint into a vagina is full-on prosecutable rape.

    Those laws date back to the 70’s as interpreted in the 90’s – for men not part of the Party, of course. So what do you propose to do about this?

    Now, a “credible accusation” concerning a gesture, a word, a vibe, incidental contact going back to the male’s birth is now sexual assault.

    Yeah, that’s the newish standard. What do you propose to do about it?

    The sky isn’t falling.

  26. lol…….if you guys were really so interested in why more white males do suicide than black ( from what I’ve read this is the topic)

    Just look at the cultures…. lol

  27. I agree mersonia. Black men are more interested in the society than they are invested in it, much like the chicken/pig: egg/bacon breakfast story.

  28. Hank

    No need to trouble yourself lil fella.

    the FI has fucked up society royally,

    To fix anything you must understand how we got here, and where we are going. Feminism is but one prong of Equalism.

  29. @ Sentient

    Strategically, you are right. However, I’m in the camp that Alpha is a mindset. Plus, I’m not sure if Alpha will be sufficient against the post-wall “I was cheated out of my goods” accusation. I’m not saying that Cosby was Alpha, but they didn’t come after him until he was an old man with a bulging dead eye.

    @ Boulderhead

    You sick bastard! That’s indecent exposure (sexual misconduct) and golden shower (sexual assault). Plus, I can see from the kind of man you were, you were probably into scat.

    You can remain out in the cold like Sentient, but it might be safer to go to Rollo’s safe house. There might be room as he might be kicking out Rose for not wearing pants. Some BS excuse about just getting out of the shower that Rollo wasn’t buying.

    @ Anonymous Reader

    I don’t have a solution, and you are probably right that we are 80 years too late. You do a great job explaining why the sky is falling and then explain that the sky is not falling. I guess it’s like Sentient said it’s Alpha, english muffin, then pray that, social standing or the depth of your pockets make it not worth persuing you. Or your Alpha persona leaves her as a devoted Alpha widow.

  30. @If-I-Fell

    No wucking fories, even though there is no statute of limitations on original sin. Those nurses are all at least 80 now and probably have dementia from changing the story so many times. Besides I think they liked it.

  31. If-I-Fell

    “Alpha is a mindset” – well if you are the only one who perceives you as Alpha, you’re a Gamma.

    Some Year End lulz…

    Abrasive alone was used 17 times to describe 13 different women, but the word never appeared in men’s reviews. In fact, this type of character critique that was absent from men’s reviews showed up in 71 of the 94 critical reviews received by women.

    I suspect “abrasive” was used for the fear of actually calling them bitchy…

    uh oh! Went there…

  32. “Since nobody here is a minority like I am….”

    Not all minorities are created equal. White hispanic isn’t Black Hispanic isn’t Asian Hispanic isn’t, Inuit Hispanic isn’t…you get the point. Ask Jorge Miguel Zimmerman.

    Blacks may vote unthinkingly Democratic, but that’s where the alignment ends. All else is a negotiation.

    Question: Do Black Latinos have derogatory names for White Latinos? I’d assume so. I ask as in the American Southwest US Latinos calling a US neighbor “Mexicano” is a smear. It insinuates their linage is not from Spain, and thus inferior.

  33. @EhIntellect

    Enough of the race and politics already. The statistic says more white men commit harry carie than other colors. The statistic doesn’t include brain aneurysm, esophageal varices, heroin overdose, reckless driving or even getting killed when obviously outnumbered. None of these things are considered suicide technically by the coroner, doesn’t make them accidental.

    What the stat points to is nothing, but exclusion of differing methods.

  34. “Abrasive alone was used 17 times ”

    Wait for the misogynist label.

    Indecisive fem speak is a gift from a God. She’s telegraphing “Help! I’m rudderless! More D please!”

    What an opportunity to manipulate a woman. “Don’t call me bossy” then “I’m a bitch and proud”. These women can’t relax until a guy busts their chops.

    Speaking of, at a bar I chat up a girl 20s. She tells me she’s “blunt” and a lesbian, pointing to her friend. I tell her I’m razor sharp, so there, toots. “Lesbian, huh? Prove it. Tongue your lover.” Waiting patiently…

    She dropped the facade and I rolled my eyes. “I have a better chance licking your pussy than she does.”

  35. @ boulderhead

    Nothing can kill my buzz.

    Work Christmas party this weekend, new job, at an off site, not work sponsored venue. A coworker popped big for a party. Girls here are chatty between each other about it. You know, “Are you going?” back and forth. What to wear talk.

    It’ll be different this year as I’ll be sober, hee….until I cab it back for a overnight in a neighboring downtown.

    Have a great weekend.

  36. @AR

    That cover is all about feeding the FI. Again, note who isn’t there.

    who isn’t there?… i really don’t know, i haven’t been following any of this so it’s just background noise for me at this point…

    good luck!

  37. Thanks everyone for all your input in this thread. Wish I had more time.

    @Blaximus and Dr. Zipper

    Bikes, mastering them, corresponding them to one’s Frame, one’s ability to exert control of one’s environment and oneself… thanks for your insights.

    This caught my eye upthread, a response to NBTM:

    “NBTM, I feel your frustration. Don’t know much about you, but here goes anyways: Don’t blow yourself, career, reputation up in an unwinnable social battle. Better to blend in working quietly against your oppressors.”

    See, I was just in the middle of doing this to myself until just recently, and though I’m still dealing with many of the consequences personally and work-wise, I’ve been able to prevent the worst. I almost zeroed myself out. Deep anger much like you, NBTM. I cannot offer you anything different than the advice given in that paragraph.

    It was just chilling just how much my loss of Frame via anger almost did me in. To myself.

  38. @ Markos

    There’s no shame in losing frame. It can happen because there are so many things that can work against a man’s frame that some slippage can happen from time to time. The important thing is to recognise that slippage and self correct asap.

    Anger is dangerous, yet it’s also a natural emotion. The thing is to let anger be an emotion and not a condition, then exercise control over all of your emotions – except happiness/joy, lol.

  39. @ boulder

    Emoticons. Exactly. Want to blend in as Beta? Emoticon your the shit out of emails, texts. Lots of exclamation pints too!!!!!

    There’s that “You can’t read sarcasm in a written comment” issue, though.

  40. @eh,

    Emoticons and blending in at work!!! 😂 Lol. Totally. I noticed how much I been doing some of that shit lately. My workplace has become much more feminized in the last 8 years – and I got a fiery nature, not angry, just fiery, and I’ve found myself becoming muuuuch more careful. I work with 4 female attorneys 😥😥 2 are cool, 2 are ball- busters, and I gotta get out of this place.

  41. For me to even consider giving up my life for a woman, I have to at least be screwing her. If things were like they were in the 1950’s, it may be different. But today, women loudly and proudly declare that they don’t owe men a thing, even common courtesy. If you want to give your life for a woman who could care less about you while she blows some chad who cares less about her, be my guest.

    And more men are catching on to this line of thought. When the costa concordia was sinking a few years ago, men took the lifeboats for themselves. We’ve all heard of the 80/20 rule. Why should 80 percent of the men who are disregarded by women feel the need to sacrifice themselves for those women and why should the 20 percent feel that need either, when women will reward them regardless of what they do or don’t do?

  42. Hi Mitch,

    Mitch’s Purple Pill was the first TRM article I read. Glad you’re back.

    This is just a story, nothing aimed at you.

    Had a coworker who’d had many women from the Philippines, Korea sent over. He tried Eastern Europe but concluded the down payment was too big, they demanded stuff from the get go.

    He bring the girls around to parties, holiday parties. It was weird as the girls didn’t speak English and it was clear she was a show piece, wasn’t into him. He’d sit, her next to him, silently. He’d jump at conversations, as there were few because people didn’t know how to take the 55 y.o. ruddy faced fat dude sitting with the comely 19 y.o.

    He was morbidly obese, wealthy, not living with his actual wife but called her the “mother of my kids.” He figured staying married apart was cheaper, a wise business move. Perhaps it was, I don’t know. Anyways, he’d occasionally take his, well, legal wife, dancing too but she’d dance with other guys, he’d sit. Cuck bait. I think he was o.k. with it. She was o.k. looking, well past her prime but had it at one time.

    He’d get bored of the Asian babes in less than a month and send them back, then Lord over us at work. He was a master of integrity compartmentalizing.

    Kinda chattel slavery but, meh.

  43. “Why should 80 percent of the men who are disregarded by women feel the need to sacrifice themselves for those women and why should the 20 percent feel that need either, when women will reward them regardless of what they do or don’t do?”

    not agreeing nor disagreeing with this sentiment, but when/if this becomes common knowledge and/or de facto behavior in our society… it’s all over; men, as the builders, maintainers and fixers of everything except babies (and even then we are necessary), need to have a reason to sacrifice and invest in the future; the FI trend of seeing men as the enemy is the very definition of ‘cut off your nose to spite your face’

    that’s my Chicken Little moment, please forgive

  44. @ eh,
    Thanks. I’m glad the cartoon version of my life is entertaining for folks. I’m not really inclined to add to it though, since arguing with strangers over the internet about my relationship is tiresome and stupid. But Sentient’s keeping a spreadsheet on the progress of the disaster he believes I’m engaged in, and I’ve promised to keep him updated. Ill just stick to the bare facts. Another item: hopefully she passes her drivers test next week, enabling her to get into all kinds of mischief while I’m away at work.

    Also, I saw the word Ukrainicorn misused somewhere abovethread. A Ukrainicorn is not just *any* woman from Ukraine, ok? A Ukrainicorn is diiiiferent, unique, not like all the other other Ukrainian gold-digging bitches out there. Heh

    Seriously though, there’s plenty of truth in that and other posts and in a lot of the feedback I’ve gotten, and I’m very much a work in progress with all the TRP stuff I’ve internalized to date in mind. It has helped.

  45. Penny for your thoughts, Mitch.

    AWALT. Thus your woman’s path to you is irrelevant, right? IMO your relationship is on a better footing than most as you know the rules of the game. My coworker above solipsisticly didn’t and was fleeced a couple times.

    The opposite of love isnt hate but apathy. Iron hardens iron and all.

    All difficult case women can be made into something worthwhile with leadership, a masculine hand on the relationship. Fat girls can be dreaded thin, bitches can be unflappable-frame broken, in theory.

  46. @ ads, your right abt emoticons, when writing to more than one person. But emails to one woman, especially involving giving direction, seem to require a smiley face and phrasing that disguises the fact that youre giving direction. I dunno, haven’t quite figured that one out.

    And I’ve learned from my boss’s experience that being Alpha doesn’t help in a heavily feminized workplace.

    My boss is definitely AMOG, not only in this workplace, but the industry in general. He’s masculine, extremely competent, an effective manager, well- regarded and respected for his 35 years experience, expertise, fairness and intelligence throughout the industry. He has instutional knowledge that is vital and can’t really be replicated. He talks to and treats men and women *exactly* the same. Ambitious 30 yo femcunt lawyer thinks she’s his peer (and of course she is not even in the same ballpark) and openly challenges him in a manner and to a degree that no male attorny with comparable experience would ever dream of. Still, he patiently listens, considers, and sometimes allow himself to be persuaded, and when not persuaded, calmly and decisively holds his ground. The female whisper network around the office (men are much more beta than when I started 8 years ago- mostly due to turnover) has it that this guy has a problem with women, which is patently absurd. They just don’t like his masculine leadership style – in which he treats women exactly the same as the men. Lo and behold a sex discrimination complaint is filed against him by one of the attorneys, and probably another female staffer as well. Of course all of this is kept confidential, all info coming back-channel. There was no finding, but his continued employment was put on hold until resolvrd. (He officially retired, and is back as a contractor).

    We first realized something was up when out of the blue everubody is required to attend a special training on discrimination in t he workplace. First time in 8 years I’ve been here. And holy shit, this outside attorney bitch who did the training was a cartoon cutout of the most obnoxious Hillary Clinton minon you could imagine. Every guy in there was looking at each other going WTF???!
    This is THE most female- friendly place I have ever worked in – its fucking utopia for an ambitious intelligent woman. But apparently total male submission has not yet been accomplished.

    Yeah, I’ve got job applications out, and three guys have already left this month. One guy is just taking off to travel in Asia, and one found himself another job after he was denied advancement because ‘he’s too valuable where he is.’ A less experienced female was tapped for a leadership position that I think he was seeking. I work in a field that is basic to making the world function. This is not going to end well.

  47. @ eh,
    One thing that works in my favor is that my woman is very easy to work with in terms of developing myself wrt RP. She conscously understands and deeply believes in traditional m/f roles as being necessary for a healthy r’ship. In no way does that let me off the hook, but it does make the journey easier.

  48. No woman in her right mind would say, “I want the old world back.” We know what that meant for women. Nor would we even consciously think it. But perhaps, instead, we are fantasizing that the old world has come back, rather than confronting something a great deal more frightening: It’s never coming back. We are the grown-ups now. We are in charge.

    From the conclusion of The Warlock Hunt.

  49. Been there. A female corporate attorney wanted me gone 4 months after shedding many Beta qualities. I was offered a career threat wrapped in a separation enticement. I took it happily, left a and never looked back. As upthread, my satisfaction presently was waiting “on the other side of fear.”

  50. @Eh

    “There’s that “You can’t read sarcasm in a written comment” issue, though.”

    “Also, I saw the word Ukrainicorn misused somewhere abovethread. A Ukrainicorn is not just *any* woman from Ukraine, ok? A Ukrainicorn is diiiiferent, unique, not like all the other other Ukrainian gold-digging bitches out there. Heh”

    Ya right.

  51. And I’ve learned from my boss’s experience that being Alpha doesn’t help in a heavily feminized workplace.

    Mitch —

    It requires a good deal of calibration in that case, yes. Traditional masculine game doesn’t work that well with the more femcunt, ball-buster types, it requires a calibration that is more subtle, and in part also realizes that some people in the workplace are not going to be flipped (including the more hardcore women you’re talking about there), so it’s best to try to navigate around them, or set them against each other somehow, or otherwise calibrate and arrange yourself so as to be a step ahead, if you can manage that.

    Many workplaces are becoming more feminine all the way through, but it varies a lot by industry still. The law is terrible in this respect (I have worked around female lawyers for about 25 years or so now) — it’s very feminized now, has been very heavily colonized by women and many of them are obnoxious in the workplace. This is one of the more challenging workplace groups because of the personality types involved (the kinds who are attracted to the profession) and the aggressive way women have colonized a lot of the law now — it was not this way when I started out back in the early 90s, but it’s steadily become like this and now it’s almost entirely like that. The only way you avoid it in the law is by having your own practice, i.e., independent, but that has its own problems for most people. Anyway, the point is that women lawyers in the workplace are among the most challenging colleagues and require pretty tight game and calibration on an individual level to the personality type you’re dealing with, plus a good amount of foresight and planning and staying ahead. Above all, you *must* remain very plugged into the information networks in the office, otherwise you will be quickly isolated by these types and eventually pushed out — I’ve seen that happen to more than one male colleague over the years. You have to be plugged in, you have to have tight game, you have to plan ahead and you have to be able to subtly calibrate — it’s hard mode, though, there are easier environments, for sure.

  52. Blaximus
    Rep. Trent Franks of AZ will resign at the end of January.

    His bio shows he married in 1980 and is still married to the same woman. He’s 60 years old
    A quick search turned up a headline about “discussed surrogacy with staffers”, but I didn’t bother to track down the year of the discussion. Bet it wasn’t recent.

    There’s no penalty for a late hit on a Beta.

  53. @ Nova, that post is SO money. Thanks.

    I am not a natural dark triad type – at all. Never grew up thinking in terms of game, even in the workplace. I am only recently coming to understand the true depth and breadth of what is happening in this country. Like a frog in a slow- boiling pot. The pot has reached boiling temperature and I’m like holy shit, what is going on here?

    Female lawyers are an especially dangerous species. In not a lawyer, I just have to work with them – actually I am supposed to be their client, but that is definitely not reflected in the more recent dynamics.

    I’m out as soon as I find a suitable alternative lily-pad.

  54. @ nova

    That post is money. Thanks. Female lawyers are an especially dangerous species. I’m not a natural dark-triad type at all, and its only fairly recently (last 2 years or so) that I’m waking up to the true depth and breadth of what’s going on in this country. I’m like a frog in a pot, that’s just reached boiling temperature and I’m like holy shit what’s going on here?!

    I’m not a lawyer, I just have to work with them. Actually I’m supposed to be their client, but is definitely not being reflected in the newish dynamics around here. I’m outta here as soon as I find a suitable lily-pad. Meantime ill work on calibration and femcunt workplace game. It should be fun.

  55. @ Novaseeker

    “ set them against each other somehow”

    Me likey! I really do. I’ve read Greene’s Power, understand his examples.

    Have you examples how to turn professional women on each other?

    If it involves going Beta….bleach…maybe short term…I’ll do it for the team.

  56. Female lawyers … Stop me if you’ve heard this one before

    Father and son are sitting in a lunch place, waiting for their orders. The little boy is killing time playing with a quarter, throwing it up in the air and catching it on the way down — until he misses and swalows the coin.

    Dad is frantic, thinking the kid might choke to death. But a nicely dressed woman strides calmly over from another table and says, “Don’t worry.” She crisply pulls down the kid’s pants, gives his nuts a firm squeeze and then a hard twist. The quarter pops right up out of the kid’s mouth and into her hand.

    “That’s amazing,” the man says. “Are you a doctor?”

    “No,” she replies. ” A divorce lawyer.”

  57. female lawyers lol, good one!!

    divorce lawyer scumbags are not gender-specific and as long as there is money to be coughed up, they don’t care whose well-manicured hands are doing the nut-squeezing

    my ex has much family law experience but finds it reprehensible…. she always hated litigating and encouraged parties to settle amicably as this was 99% of the time best for the children; firms on both sides didn’t like her default approach since it takes the focus off making money and puts it back on the people whose lives are now in pieces; she concentrates on contract law now

    doctors, lawyers, pua coaches, etc. all provide a valuable service; too bad they have to make a living out of it cuz the money part of it starts to muddy the waters

    props to Rollo!

  58. @blax

    The majority of my ancestors did not ” immigrate ” here.

    My point exactly. You don’t think that the fact that the ancestors of black people were slaves, whereas the ancestors of whites came over to america somewhat more willingly (first slaves were white, many indentured white servants after that, most pilgrims were poor and persecuted in their homelands…but still) would give them a different perspective?

    Whites helped to create america, it was white men that created the constitution. So white culture is naturally going to be more supportive of the government as it stands written in that document.

    Whereas blacks were royally fucked over in america and (some, emphasis SOME) whites (most white southerners were dirt poor, owned no slaves, and were barely better off than the slaves) so blacks are naturally going to be suspicious of government and more open to replacing it with a different form.

    Take cops for example. Blacks are almost always going to have a more negative, or at least suspicious view of cops because of how they have been historically treated by cops. Whites, on the other hand are generally more positive — how often does a cop discriminate against a white person? (though it does happen, had it happen to me once in a car accident lol)

    So yeah there is a difference.

    I mean, notice how you jumped at my statement that blacks “immigrated” to america. Why did you have to point out they came as slaves? I think its fairly clear from my statement that I was using “immigration” as a general term to me “come to america, willing or not”. Yet you just had to clarify “blacks came as slaves”

    That’s my point.

    Different races in america have had different histories, and those histories have filtered down through the generations, coloring how they view the world.

    Since blacks in particular have been fucked over by the government, they naturally have an us versus them mentality, that is easily exploited by marxism and socialism (replace bourgeoisie with whites, proletariat with blacks).

    The thing thats always puzzled me though, is why more blacks and native americans aren’t libertarian/small gov’t. That’s what I can’t understand. It was the US gov’t that supported slavery and of the forced migrations of the natives, and later it was big gov’t that enforced segregation (those “evil capitalists” hated segregation, because it was costly, and they wanted to sell to EVERYONE to make more money — education system in this country sucks indeed)

  59. – playing them against each other…

    Hmmm I could see that working here – the two ball-busters reeeelly wanna be players in the big dog game. Not sure how I’d pull it off tho.

  60. This again??

    … shit. Must.stop.replying.


    @ hank- real quick.

    Police. I won’t expand on what’;s wrong in the equation so I can be rebutted endlessly, but It’s my position that the apathy by the general populace, because cops aren’t abusing them will definetly lead to… cops fucking with everybody eventually. They’re getting a free pass with a majority blessing.

    It takes a little time, but that’s gonna change because we are all, regardless of skin color, religion, political party or anything else, living under the same system.


    If you don’t think your kids or grandkids will be next if police murder and brutality keep getting unaddressed, I feel for your lineage.

    But hey, no problems now right? So fuck it.

    ” Since blacks in particular have been fucked over by the government, they naturally have an us versus them mentality, that is easily exploited by marxism and socialism (replace bourgeoisie with whites, proletariat with blacks).”

    Popular narrative. Not true though.

    No ” Us vs Them “. That’s a boogey man born of everybody being separated and talking what they don’t know about each other. Lol. That’s not really changed.

    What the issue is is fair treatment under the law/government. That includes federal and state/local government. Simplifying that down to us vs them is an obfuscation. But, it’s easy and simple and less messy, requiring almost zero thought. Other than radical militants ( that were mostly wiped off the face of the earth ) I’ve never heard any ” replace the govt ” talk. What I have heard is ” make the government live up to it’s proclamations and the US constitution ” talk.

    Okay hank, that’s my last comment on this subject because there’s really no point. There never is actually. Exercise in futility and all that. Time will tell the tale.

    Let’s get back on topic please. I’m sure 99% of commenters agree on that. Lol.

  61. @Hank
    Blacks also built America, with 400 years of free labor. So did many other ethnic groups but the involuntary economic contribution of blacks was ginormous.

    racial stuff is just too complex, too painful and explosive to get anywhere imo. And is an unproductive distraction from dealing with life in the FI. Lets not do what the wimmins do, and create racial factions. We’re all men, facing the same emergency.

  62. @ mersonia

    Hey. I have to let this go, for real. Especially before asd wakes up, or god forbid, scrib comes in and shits on the floor and walks out.

    I always mistakenly believe that maybe, somethings can be understood by talking about them, but I keep getting proven wrong.

    Agendas. Yes. absolutely.

    Doesn’t matter.

  63. Hmmm I could see that working here – the two ball-busters reeeelly wanna be players in the big dog game. Not sure how I’d pull it off tho.

    @ Mitch and Eh —

    The best way is to find something they are naturally in competition with each other about and then find a subtle way to egg them on, without openly doing it. This usually involves subtle comments to each separately, being plugged in to know what is going on and where the hot spots of competition are, and then making sure that a conflict of some sort arises. In the workplace this can involve work assignments or project performance or even team formation and so on — it depends on the context — but if you can get them to focus on tearing down each other it’s only to your benefit … and it’s fun to watch, too, because that personality type can be very bitchy and catty in that circumstance. A key, though, is being very indirect about it so you are unimpeachable and not directly involved — but you have enough of each one’s ear that you can influence them into the conflict without being seen yourself as the source of it. It also involves patience in terms of keeping your ears and eyes open and waiting for the opportunity to present itself, which can take a while.

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