Men and Suicide

Before I launch in here today I need to confess that this post has been in my drafts folder for a while now. As most of my readers are aware I’ve known two personal friends who’ve taken their own lives as a result of having their Blue Pill conditioned beliefs set them on a path to self destruction. One of the more important parts of my charter when I started writing was to reach the men who were at their wits’ end in figuring out how to deal with their personal, romantic or married lives that had until then been directed by what their Blue Pill acculturation and their understanding of intersexual dynamics were molded to be. Since I started and stopped and then restarted this topic again there have been a few recent developments in my perspective on men taking their own lives as a result of the Blue Pill’s influence on them.

All of this really began about two months ago while I was engaging in a debate (or what passes for debate) on Twitter with a very unsympathetic woman who thought she’d set me straight about why it is men choose to take their own lives at a far greater rate than women. As it stands today, men are statistically between 4 and 5 times more likely than women to kill themselves. For most Red Pill aware men this is a fairly well known stat and one that gets quoted often enough when women trot out their own stats about abuse or whatever issue they think it is that MRA are ‘confused’ about. They usually get owned when this sort of back and forth goes down, but I’m always drawn to the comparative issues women think are equitable to that of men losing their lives.

Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere. Sperm is cheap, eggs are scarce and men are expected to sacrifice their lives for the security and betterment of women even in the most patriarchal of prior social orders. It’s always interesting to me that issues of mandatory male conscription into the military (potential death) and the unignorable high male suicide rates are something women still won’t accept as being a pretty raw deal for men. Women’s innate solipsism will still compel women to find some “yeah, but;…” rationalization for men’s disposability. Whenever I bring something like this up the reflexive presumption is that I’m bemoaning men’s victim status for being disposable. However, it’s impossible to discuss male disposability without such a connotation. My issues isn’t one of seeking some equitable disposability for women, but rather it’s drawing attention to the way women react and rationalize away their own part in that disposability.

True Powerlessness

I covered a lot of this in Chivalry vs. Altruism, so I won’t belabor that here, but I will point out the inherent power imbalance in this disposability. I’ve stated in the past that true power is not the control we can exert over the lives of others, but rather the extent to which we have control over the direction of our own lives. When we discuss issues of power between men and women the real, ultimate, loss of that control is in the context of our deaths.

There is no greater powerlessness for men than a lack of control over our own disposability.

Again, this isn’t some cry of victimhood for men – I happen to believe there’s an evolved component in the male psychological firmware that actually predisposes us to sacrificing ourselves in lieu of the security of our women and children. That’s not so much altruism as it is an inborn subroutine for protecting women that triggers in life-threatening situations. When a mass shooter opens fire indiscriminately at a crowd of people it is the men, not the women, who instinctively put their bodies between that gun and women or children, even the one’s they don’t personally know.

In the bigger scope of things, men will always be more disposable than women, and on some level of consciousness women’s hindbrains instinctively understand this. As such, women’s conscious process must find ways to reconcile this understanding in order for them to move on from men’s sacrifices. Sometimes this can manifest in the War Brides phenomenon, but I would argue that in today’s social learning environment of mass media, instant gratification of women’ solipsism and feminine-primary social order, this reconciliation takes some even uglier turns. Today, women have become very efficient in consoling each other’s solipsistic rationalizing of men’s sacrifices. In this environment of default female victimization and presumed oppression even men’s ultimate sacrifice, men’s ultimate powerlessness in their own deaths, cannot ever be consciously or unconsciously acknowledged in a state of fempowerment.

While I had this debate it occurred to me that even men’s suicides could never be attributed to anything less than their own ‘male egos’ by women, thus making them victims of their conditioning into “toxic” masculinity. Essentially, women were arguing that men would put a noose around their necks because they were socially conditioned to do so. Their suicide rate was attributable to their self-pity and inability to be ‘real men’ as some nebulous toxic masculinity had predefined for them. I thought this was kind of ironic when you compare this reasoning to the narrative shift away from ‘toxic’ masculinity to masculinity itself is toxic. This is really a stupid argument when you consider that it’s just another social convention used to absolve women of the guilt associated with men’s sacrifices. Men are hardwired for self sacrifice, but likewise women had need to evolved psychological adaptations to help them clear the red from their life’s ledger in this respect.

So, in the end, it helps if women can fall back on social conventions that put the associated guilt of men’s sacrifices back on the men themselves. Chivalry and traditional masculinity are fine when they serve the Feminine Imperative, but if a man actually gets killed or kills himself as part of that, well, that’s on him then. And this is what I was beginning with in this debate; there will always be a desire for absolution of women’s guilt or complicity in the deaths of men. I should also add that in terms of war and men being drafted women regularly default to the same asinine presumption that if women were running the world that there would be no wars. I won’t dignify that with any deeper analysis than to say that this too is one more (feeble) way of looking for absolution in the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality.

Suicide Solution

That still left the question, why do men take their own lives in such alarmingly high numbers compared to women? I had to do a bit of research on this, but the demographics for male suicide today show some patterns. 7 in 10 suicides are men (majority white) between the ages of 45 and 65. As expected from gynocentric media, the primary reason always cited is men’s so called stubbornness in seeking out psychiatric help before they attempt suicide – again absolving women’s influence of any complicity – but ignoring what would motivate men, and this demographic in particular, to suicide. Again, there’s no attempt to understand the underlying reasons for male suicide, only a stereotypically easy ‘male-stupid’ answer to absolve women’s complicity in it.

There’s a lot to consider and be sensitive of when it comes to male suicide, but I’m going to speculate about a few reasons here coming from a Red Pill perspective. At no other time in western history has there ever been a generation of more purposeless men. From an evolved psychological perspective, men need a function. We are innate idealists. We look outward at the world and like to imagine what could be possible. I believe there is also an innate part of our evolved mental firmware that predisposes us to problem solving and improvisation, and much of that comes as an adaptation to women’s own innate need for men who can display cues of competency.

In Competency I made the case for women’s attraction to men displaying signals of competency, confidence, mastery and creative intelligence as a selected-for survival adaptation. In short, our competency in life, whether stemming from physical prowess, social dominance or creative intelligence is integrally linked with our reproductive success as well as overall life success.

However, at no other time in history has men’s competency been so devalued and so debased; other than perhaps in terms of physical prowess and accommodating the short term (Alpha Fucks) breeding imperatives of women. At no other time in (western) history has the equity in what a man can provide or create or solve been so implicitly unnecessary or superfluous to women. When we consider the rates of college enrollment and graduation of women compared to that of men, when we consider the practical problems that men used to solve, our utility has never been less needed – or at least that’s the zeitgeist of today.

We read about how men need to accept this new social reality – that our need for purpose and function is no longer needed or as valued – and we need to change our headspace about it as if it were something men might simply turn off. This is the result of equalist beliefs that anything gender-specific is something learned rather than the innate firmware we were born with. But we cannot simply change our minds about needing a function. We evolved to be problem solvers, women talk, men do, but now we are expected to accept that men are obsolete.

Loss of Utility

In Relational Equity I made a case for men investing too much of their egos into what intrinsic (and extrinsic) value they believe their respective women ought to appreciate about themselves. Under the old books, old social contract this equity may have had some conditional value to women, but as a buffer against Hypergamy today there is very little a man might consider value-added equity (unless it’s exceedingly rare or exceedingly valued) as a hedge against Hypergamy. Before any defeatist critics tell me how not all women are like that, yes, I get it, there are a lot of variables to consider here, but the equation and the reality doesn’t change – relational equity, overall, is no insurance against Hypergamy. It is also no insurance against women’s security and providership needs being met by resources that come from outside that relationship. I’m not considering this because I’m trying to depress any man, but it is vitally necessary to consider when we look at reasons why 45-65 year old men are predisposed to higher rates of suicide and higher rates of alcoholism and opioid abuse.

I would argue that a major contributing factor to high male suicide rates finds its origins in men’s need for purpose, function and accomplishment during this phase of life. Every day I read an article about how men my own age are dropping out of social discourse. I mentioned a Boston Globe article about just this phenomenon in Male Control. In some respects I can understand that despite the unprecedented connectivity we enjoy today men really don’t seek out bonds with other men. This is primarily due to the fact that men need a common purpose in order to form these bonds. Again, this is just how we’re wired. Women intentionally schedule time to simply interact with their same-sex friends just for the sake of communicating and enjoying the act of communicating. Men need function or a common purpose to come together. We need an activity or a problem to solve and then we communicate and form bonds.

Women talk, men do. This is a well studied fact; our brains and, by extension, social networks largely center on purpose and function. Now, lets presume that in spite of having literally all the information in the world at our finger tips we remove all need for the utility that men are wired to provide to not just women, but the larger scope of Society. We get a generation of men on the outside looking in. Only the most creative, resourceful and motivated of men can really utilize, much less master, all that this information has to offer him. And even a portion of those men can really see past the antipathy of their supposed obsolescence to do something truly meaningful or masterful. As the saying goes, most men live lives of quiet desperation, but in the modern era these men are demonstrably useless. And I mean that in a functional sense; once a Beta man has been wrung of his utility to women, he ceases to be able to convince his hindbrain that he can build, improvise or solve things.

Once a man is stripped of his usefulness, once it’s made clear that all of the equity he believed would support his relationship has been erased after so long, men will still resort to practical, deductive solutions. That solution may be suicide when weighed with the prospect of having to rebuild himself in a new context; and even if he did would he just be building a new ‘him’ based on his old belief set?

When my brother in-law committed suicide it seemed to me at the time to be the most logical end he would come to. He was a man very steeped in Blue Pill ideals, but he was also a man who prided himself on what he could do – and if he didn’t know how to do something he was always a fast learner. He literally built his life, and expectations of a future life, around the relational equity he believed defined him as a man. He was very invested in the old books, old social contract that rooted a man’s attractiveness and quality in what it was he could do. What he built for himself and his wife defined his identity.

All of that 20+ years of building equity and an identity based on it was erased for him in the space of about six months. But it was more than the 20 years he’d been saving, building, solving and refining, it was a perceived future he believed would be lived out for the rest of his life that got erased.

To me, at that time, his suicide made absolutely perfect sense from a male-deductive logic perspective. What didn’t make sense was all of the endless rationalizations I heard from his family, friends, his kids, his Ex (my now widowed sister in-law) about why they thought he went through with it when it was plain for anyone who wanted to confront the truth to see. A lot of these rationales were almost verbatim the same that the article I linked used. “If only men would reach out when they have suicidal thoughts”, any and every rationale that might absolve his Ex of the guilt, and still more that were meant to console her (he must’ve been mental ill) though in the end she really didn’t need it.

My brother in-law made a practical decision not an emotional one, and while I wouldn’t presume to say that a guy’s emotional state isn’t very influential in his suicide, how he comes to the decision is very much attributable to men’s deductive nature. He showed no outward signs of emotional distress. In fact, right up to his hanging himself he was in very good spirits and seemingly accepting of the fact that the wife he lived his life for was going to be leaving him soon. He was very matter of fact in a way that men are when they’ve resolved something for themselves. When a guy seems to be taking things in stride we don’t want to create a problem where we see none.

When we look in this context at the high rate of male suicide in this age demographic we begin to see how men come to this decision. Everything they’ve built up to 45-65 years of age is now debased, devalued or simply erased. All of the value and equity they’ve committed their lives to – doing the right thing according to their Blue Pill conditioning – is as if it never mattered. So they’re confronted with a choice, rebuild themselves (hopefully in a new Red Pill aware paradigm), reconstruct a new life and tough it out, or, simply, pragmatically erase themselves.

Personally, I’ve had at least two occasions where I’ve been confronted with rebuilding myself. It’s a tough prospect, make no mistake, especially when you’re Red Pill aware and understand the reality behind having to rebuild a life from scratch after so much investment in plans and projects you truly believed in when you made them. My father had to confront this rebuilding too at around 55 years of age, but rather than rebuild or kill himself I watched him slowly decay into a man I never knew could exist as my dad.

Zeroed Out

I apologize if this topic is a bit of a downer, but I think it ought to be part of any Red Pill aware man’s understanding that at many points in our lives we will be confronted with the prospects of having to rebuild ourselves. Failure, rejection and disappointment will happen for you, that’s just part of a man’s life, and it’s easy to rattle off platitudes about how many times you get back up being the measure of a man. But what I’m saying is there will be times when total reconstruction of your life will be a necessity.

You will be zeroed out at some point, and how you handle this is a much different situation than any temporary setback. This zeroing out is made all the more difficult when you confront the fact that what you believed to be so valuable, the equity you were told was what others would measure you by, was all part of your Blue Pill conditioning. At that point you need to understand that there is most definitely a hope for a better remake of yourself based on truths that were learned in the hardest way.

To end this I’m going to quote the comment of a man I met when I spoke at the 21 Convention in September. I won’t use his name, but after we talked he confessed that he was the commenter here. He’d made the trip to the convention to meet me face to face, to thank me for my work and gave me permission to use his example in a post. I won’t quote it entirely, but you can read the whole thing here. His situation is an example of, and inspiration for, everything I’ve illuminated in this essay

After a long marriage I divorced the mother of my children. A couple of years later, after some casual dating, I met a woman I would come to describe as my soulmate. I got married young – but this time, with all my infinite wisdom gained over the years – I was finally wise enough to pick a woman I was super compatible with.

We were together for a few years and even lived together. Things started out great and it was mostly smooth sailing until we moved in together – at which time I slowly allowed myself to be betaized in a slow motion, excruciating painful way.

About a month after breaking up with her I fully planned to commit suicide. I wrote a long letter explaining my rationalization and took other affirmative steps towards going through with it. About a week after I wrote the note – with D(eath) Day fast approaching – I took a break from getting my affairs in order to surf the net. I stumbled upon an Ask Reddit thread that was bad mouthing various subreddits. Some feminazi or male feminist mentioned the Red Pill subreddit as an example of a subreddit filled with craziness, and I decided to check what all of the fuss was about. Now

I’m not a religious man, but I will never rule out divine intervention. The timing of finding TRP – by complete coincidence no less – couldn’t have been more fortuitous. I stayed up all night reading the side bar – Rollo’s essays having the deepest effect on me – and everything…just…clicked….Talk about connecting the dots! Wow! It was very much like a come to Jesus moment. It was like divinity revealed secret knowledge to me just when I needed it the most – knowledge that gave me hope and very well may have saved my life. This all went down not really that long ago in actual time – but from where I metaphorically stand now it seems like an eternity.

Stay strong my friends, you can rebuild yourself even in the face of being zeroed out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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theasdgamer
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I am a single kid

I’m sorry for you. You missed out on a lot of life experiences with siblings which help with learning social lessons. You have a lot of work to do.

theasdgamer
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“You’re not an animal trapped by your past.” Me.

SJB
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SJB
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@rugby11: email is: odysseus_7737 at hotmail dot com

SJB
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I know why the caged bird sings, ah me,
When his wing is bruised and his bosom sore,
When he beats his bars and would be free;
It is not a carol of joy or glee,
But a prayer that he sends from his heart’s deep core,
But a plea, that upward to Heaven he flings –
I know why the caged bird sings

— P. Dunbar

Oscar C.
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@asd

Seems so. A friend of mine jokes that all the single kids he knows are weird…

I didn’t want brothers or sisters when growing up though, that meant less goodies for me haha

boulderhead
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SJB

Great P. Dunbar analogy.

boulderhead
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“An allusion to caged canaries (birds) that miners would carry down into the mine tunnels with them. If dangerous gases such as carbon monoxide collected in the mine, the gases would kill the canary before killing the miners, thus providing a warning to exit the tunnels immediately.
‎English · ‎Noun”

Blaximus
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@ Oscar I was wondering where you were. Good to see you. You know, I never went through the rebellious period either. I used to ‘ hear ‘ about the age where teens start rebelling, but I’ve never noticed it to be very widespread among my peers. What newly described is what I’d witnessed when a kid did start to become dissatisfied with living arrangements. @ Markos Good to see you as well. Growing up, I loved playing football. I played from elementary school all the way through high school, and during the summers I played in the summer leagues.… Read more »

boulderhead
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SJB I plagiarized this and changed the sex of the bird. “White bird In a golden cage On a winter’s day In the rain White bird In a golden cage Alone The leaves blow Across the long, black road To the darkened skies In it’s rage But the white bird Just sits in his cage Unknown White bird must fly Or he will die White bird Dreams of the aspen trees With their dying leaves Turning gold But the white bird Just sits in his cage Growing old White bird must fly Or he will die White bird must fly… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . there is almost nothing I really would like to buy . . .” There’s a word for that: “Wealth” Man is not known as the tool acquirer, he is known as the tool maker. Man acquires and makes things in order to affect his environment to his advantage. Tools are power. When there is nothing left to buy, it’s time to do something with what you have. The bumper sticker says, “he who dies with the most toys wins.” That is fundamentally wrong. The man who spends the most time playing with his toys wins. This… Read more »

kfg
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@Boulderhead re: Whitebird

One of the hottest psychedelic rock lead “guitarists” was a violinist. These days he’s playing Hot Club gypsy jazz.

rugby11
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Blaximus
“It got silent. Hell, I wanted to hear his answer.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o2B8khNomg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=500F-IWlBrY

boulderhead
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@Blax Was one coach more successful at instilling a Bantam mindset into his large players than the other? We will transport and place 32.000 lbs of material rod it flat, float the aggregate down, cut the bumps (much like body filler on a large scale) then when the consistency is right trowel it smooth until it becomes a shape set in stone. The process starts out hard and heavy,with a need for martial skill and accuracy, then as the material hardens the work intensifies untill it becomes stone. At this point if the product is not satisfactory it will need… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ rugby

Enjoyed the rugby clips. If I was 30 years younger, I might. Lol.

It’d be cool if America had a real professional rugby league.

rugby11
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rugby11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34rhLCxejFQ

“It’d be cool if America had a real professional rugby league.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXYbT4Ov2pY

Blaximus
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@ boulderhead Our coach was a stickler for the fundamentals. This made everyone on the team better as a unit operating in unison. We were pretty bad ass for a time under his tutelage. It’s obvious that the other coach taught ” tricks ” more than actually being good at balling. Yet, our coach also emphasized making split second adjustments according to what’s going on in real time. I was bitching about all of the pass interference I was getting 30 yards down field. The corner was actually grabbing me by the throat at points. Coaches response was to stay… Read more »

boulderhead
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“That lesson will stay with me until death.”

It isn’t over until it is set in stone.

boulderhead
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@kfg

“Hot Club gypsy jazz.” To acculturated for my taste.

theasdgamer
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From your menopause post, Rollo, “survival-side evolution essentially gives up on women once they reach a point where they are no longer reproductively viable.”

How does that square with the fact that women tend to outlive men?

You refer to Dawkins’ The Selfish Gene in that post. Biologists generally have dissed The Selfish Gene as being too narrowly focused. Cooperative evolution wouldn’t exist if Dawkins’ theory were correct, since cooperative evolution aids survival/reproduction of the local gene pool (and perhaps even the gene pool of another species).

rugby11
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“Yet, our coach also emphasized making split second adjustments according to what’s going on in real time.”

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVxlWZtF4t3sODpJjNKw2Ad3OKPHVHd3M

Learning to ref rugby got me out of a lot of dark places.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVxlWZtF4t3srzJMR_mGxoIb4yMzzLsLK

boulderhead
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https://thecoachessite.com/2016/01/13/mindset-nhl-top-scorer-ice-hockey/ “We were at AA Provincials (yes, AA) in Bantam. This player had always been dominant, even though he was small at the time. I loved watching him play and playing with him. But one play stands out above all the others. I will tell you why… This play was originally a mystery to me. But I’ve come to see how this play defined his mindset. And I believe that his mindset led him to where he is today: on top of the NHL. If you’re a coach, then you’re probably interested in this particular mindset because you want to… Read more »

rugby11
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theasdgamer
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HRT isn’t necessary for an old lady to want sex. All that is necessary is that she be put on an emotional roller coaster, just like a young broad. We see this in the field all the time. Lots of data points to support this.

rugby11
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EhIntellect
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@ASD Pre menopausal estrogen cardio-protection. From NCBI “Premenopausal women have a lower risk and incidence of hypertension and cardiovascular disease (CVD) compared to age-matched men and this sex advantage for women gradually disappears after menopause, suggesting that sexual hormones play a cardioprotective role in women. However, randomized prospective primary or secondary prevention trials failed to confirm that hormone replacement therapy (HRT) affords cardioprotection. This review highlights the factors that may contribute to this divergent outcome and could reveal why young or premenopausal women are protected from CVD and yet postmenopausal women do not benefit from HRT.” The health care industry… Read more »

EhIntellect
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Local rugby teams are popular round here. My nephew just broke his tibia recently.

Risk takers, heart breakers.

rugby11
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EhIntellect
“Risk takers, heart breakers.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EANghktzdMg
“My nephew just broke his tibia recently.” How is hes recovery?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs85vvd2f0c
When what has worked in the past no longer works in the present.

Blaximus
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@ EH

Man, they look like they’re having the time of their lives.

Btw, I broke my leg taking out the trash once. It’s not as swell a story as ” I broke my leg scoring the winning point “. My story is ” well, there was ice on the stairs… “.

theasdgamer
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Even after accounting for risk-taking lifestyles, women tend to outlive men. You see a lot more widows than widowers.

Also, cycle-induced hormonal variation cannot account for what we see in the field regarding women’s arousal (where they are emotionally “lit up”) in bars. Sure, cyclical variation in hormones can account for women’s interest in mating with a LTR beta. That doesn’t cover women’s desire to mate with alphas, tho.

kfg
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kfg
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Over the past century, men have taken much of the risk out of women’s lives.

boulderhead
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Blax broke my thumb sledding down this on a banana peal at 13, wiped out and caught it in the cog. I would do it again.

https://youtu.be/WJpoCmp_pvI

Not Born This Morning
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Reading this post reminds me of a man in my neighborhood who killed himeslf with a pistol while his wife and two daughters were at church. The story goes that they came home and found his body under a blanket inside the garage. He had covered himself lying on the garage floor and shot himself. Although I have not ruled out the possibility that she may have murdered him for the life insurance money because he was scheduled to be terminated from his job due to layoffs during the Great Recession, there is a darker side to his death. It… Read more »

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EhIntellect
Pre menopausal estrogen cardio-protection.

No evidence to support that. More likely it’s the iron, both circulating and as ferritin. Ironic (heh) to contemplate that the 18th century custom of bleeding men actually had some validity.

Every man and every post-menopausal woman should have iron and ferritin checked, corrective measures taken as appropriate.

Anonymous Reader
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kfg Over the past century, men have taken much of the risk out of women’s lives. Yes, in a multitude of ways. Childbirth in particular. Better medical hygene (eventually) and medical baby-forceps both in the 19th century reduced deaths in childbirth for women. Sulfa drugs and then antibiotics in the 20th century reduced the risks of giving birth even more. Historically women had shorter lives than men, it is not uncommon to find geneologies where men in the 19th century and earlier had 2 or even 3 wives in succession due to childbirth in particular or other premature demise. Given… Read more »

rugby11
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boulderhead
Thank you for that timelapse…

NBTM
“The poor bastard was dead before he died. He was murdered before he was killed or killed himself. The man was murdered long before he stopped breathing and “Prince Charming” was put in his body before he ever had a chance to live.

Do you want to live or not?!

Your life, or as a tool in someone’s else’s?”

Your own life your own ownership though’s words and deeds.

boulderhead
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@NBTM

I would rule out murder, excepting character assassination maybe.

“they came home and found his body under a blanket inside the garage. He had covered himself lying on the garage floor”

A very considerate man in my estimation, easy clean up on the concrete floor and under a blanket to hide the gory details from his loved ones that he had already”failed” in his minds eye.

rugby11
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kfg
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kfg
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“Given the nmber of men who die of the side effects of hypertension, it is arguable that modern western women kill their husbands on the installment plan – one nagging day at a time.”

Hence the joke:

Q: Why do men die before their wives?
A: Because they want to.

EhIntellect
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He’s o.k. He could use some RP. Not ready though. Good with the women, AMOG….but he’s completely whipped by my sister. Serves her, not himself, limits his desires, replaces them with hers. He wants to move to Idaho, but she convinced him to stay, gives him shelter, food, cuz he’s low on cash, low on confidence. Not with women, personally. KFG wrote way back about this phenomenon. A generation of guys, selectively Alpha. Incongruent. See women as fuck toys, doting to other women. It’s as if they believe the FI conventions, but only for certain women. NAWALT ideas. Hadn’t talked… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“No evidence to support that.”

I’m not debating the reams of correlational evidence contrary. I don’t care if it’s true or not, just to be clear. Feel free arguing both sides. Again IDC.

Flat dismissals with facile solutions is flat earthy.

rugby11
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EhIntellect When Thomas died… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YDyAoBm4cs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGv7wSmJ7K0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFK5x-M0YCg The person who told me showed me these video’s… Was calm and happy alway’s cared and was grateful to see Thomas being Happy… Had many discussions about music and creation… Punched a concrete wall after i found out… The wall won… Anger was still present… I was weak and powerless again… I forget the dates to stop myself from falling back into that darkness that’s waiting… Knowing it’s ability’s… Thomas was the one person from the 5 last year who i grew up with for the most part of my life… We both… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Jordan Peterson on Nietzsche on Blaximus on ideology:

lh
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lh
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Of course Blax is absolutely right the key is not to fear women. But that is the end. First I think the lack of purpose is an important topic which should be raised more often in todays debates. In our modern view the task of finding purpose in life is all up to the individual. And that’s kind of inevitable since it’s just the other side of the coin “freedom”. But still that task may be too hard for the individual. But as reason for the suicides that explanation falls somewhat short in my opinion. Rebuilding yourself is actually a… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“Women are actually evil.”

And I thought I was dramatic.

Anonymous Reader
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EhIntellect “No evidence to support that.” I’m not debating the reams of correlational evidence contrary. Ok. If you want more fun, search on “Replication crisis” and “medical”. In a few more years the medicos will finally be force to admit that cholesterol may be a symptom but it’s not a cause of CHD. In the mean time more men will develop diabetes (which associates with heart disease), many of them by following the Official Heart Healthy Diet consisting largely of lots and lots of simple carbs. I don’t care if it’s true or not, just to be clear. Feel free… Read more »

SJB
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@boulderhead: very good re-write.

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rugby11

What was the name of the book?

“Escape from Davao” by John D. Lukacs.

boulderhead
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@Ih

Good point. The cart before the horse.

https://therationalmale.com/2013/11/13/empathy/

Did he lose his sense of purpose, before she started to test him into oblivion?

Because women lack empathy for any but their spawn does this make them evil?

She can be trained to support her man into alpha, pick him up dust him off and send him back into the fray. This is not in her nature.

Anonymous Reader
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lh What really brings people down is the encounter with “evil”, which he defines as malicious intend directed towards you. That’s confusing cruelty with evil. Casual meanness is easy, cruelty requires more work and evil is something else again. I’ve known multiple women with a mean streak, a few that were capable of cruelty and maybe one or two borderline evil cases. Once you’re out of grade school, letting a mean girl get under your skin is weak. But a lot of men now are weak in various ways. Don’t forget, men are the true romantics. Suicide as a grand,… Read more »

boulderhead
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“In the mean time, get your iron checked. Bacteria need iron to reproduce. So do cancern cells. Don’t hand those things free fuel.”

Wow this gives new meaning to the term “Geritol crew”.

EhIntellect
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boulderhead
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“Hawthorne employed dozens of relatives at the business he started in 1989, and the source said he left a note in which he apologized to his family.”

Thinking of others.

What stopped me from eating the shotgun was, what kind of example am I setting for my boys?

EhIntellect
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Boulderhead,

That line got me too.

He was alone, surrounded by family.

dr zipper
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“He was alone, surrounded by family.”

“Hawthorne was slapped with a proposed class-action suit alleging he cheated as many as 100-plus workers at the Golden Crust plant out of overtime pay”

maybe it was his family brought the lawsuit lol

boulderhead
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“The suit — fairly common in the food service industry — remains pending in Manhattan federal court.”

EhIntellect
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EhIntellect
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Government wants its cut.

Jeff
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Jeff
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Great post, Rollo. Being zeroed out is hard particularly if you are in your 40s, 50s, or 60s. This essay puts it all in perspective and it has an answer. It’s the answer that people like you and Jordan Peterson have found. We get to set the frame for subsequent generations.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/04/28/immortality-begins-at-forty/

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kfg Hence the joke: A few years back I went digging for the original Framingham heart study and found parts of it. It was a real wide net to try to figure out what factors were driving the increase in heart attacks, back when a lot of men were dying of those in their 40’s. It was big data for the 1950’s. There was a table of factors that were teased out of the data, not just obvious life habits such as smoking, exercising, but other issues. High cholesterol was one of them. The table looked something like this: FACTOR… Read more »

SJF
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@ Blaxumus Speaking of high school sports, I told this story in Field Reports back this last January: We had an epic varsity wrestling meet against our prime rival back in 1979. Two premier all boys Catholic schools. The Jesuits against the Franciscans. It went back and forth and we lost by a few points. Our team members grumbled in the locker room afterwards about how we got screwed by the referee’s on a few points and should have won. Our coach taught us and epic lesson on that. I believe he swore a bit as he spit out that:… Read more »

constrainedlocus
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Great post, Rollo. Much appreciated. From your Kill the Beta:https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/ “You can pore through all of the advice and sift out the wisdom from this blog and the community at large, but none of it will amount to anything for you if you wont act. I can’t begin to recall all of the times I’ve counseled young guys, giving them all manner of advice and encouraging them to put it into practice, only to have them constantly bemoan that they can’t find the motivation. More often than not it takes some traumatic experience or they have to be reduced to… Read more »

thedeti
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@ Rand HOoks: When I open myself up to dating, commitment and possibly marriage I am opening the door to be zeroed out? Is that a harsher way of saying life is always changing and if I’m in a relationship this is something I need to be prepared for? Yes, that’s exactly what we’re saying. With respect to women, especially, you must be prepared for her to walk out of your life at any time. You must be prepared to lose half of what you own, and that woman. You must be prepared to start over any time, all the… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“Men’s disposability is also nothing new to the manosphere.” – A man’s “disposability” is directly attributable to how disposable he allows himself to be. If he allows his disposability to be defined and determined by anything other than himself, then what can he expect, what will the universe deal such a man, what fate does he guarantee himself, what fate does he deserve? “Loss of Utility” WTF?? – “Utility”…Utility to whom? “I cannot determine my own destiny. Oh no, I’m no longer “useful”, so I’m just going to kill myself. I know nothing but slavery, it is my rightful place… Read more »

cheupez
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I was for a moment tempted to think this suicide thing is mostly a western (white) male thing but the more I read the more I realize it is just a man thing and not a white male thing.

70’sAntihero
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A couple of years back I was on a date with this very attractive Ukrainian women that I met online. She told me that her former husband, a doctor, shot himself in the chest and killed himself. She told me this in the context of her struggles and one of the reasons why she moved out west from the east coast. She was trying to elicit sympathy from me. She even showed me pictures of the pearl handled, nickel plated 357 and asked me if I was on the market for a gun. At that point all I could think… Read more »

hank holiday
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hank holiday
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@cheupez

comment image

Blaximus
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Speaking of Ukrainians….

O/T fluff – was in the supermarket last night at midnight ( closing time, zfg ) cornering the market on Bacon.

In checkout ahead of me was a 6 foot tall blonde, in flats. She was young, and on her phone ( surprise ) and she was speaking what sounded Russian, having worked with Russian strippers in the past, but I was clueless as to what her conversation was about.

She was all alone.

There are solo many chicks floating around here at all hours alone.

Anonymous Reader
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She even showed me pictures of the pearl handled, nickel plated 357 and asked me if I was on the market for a gun.

“Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol.”

Attributed to George S. Patton

SJF
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“Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol.”

Attributed to George S. Patton

I was thinking wtf? about that too. Also a doctor shooting himself in the chest to commit suicide? That’s just stupid or ignorant of him. Any doctor knows the brain-stem is the target. (But don’t tell anyone about that.)

That doctor was what you call a drama queen. The fact that she was attracted to him at one time would put her abilities of judgment in question. There are reasons to vett.

EhIntellect
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Non sequitur:

First US transplanted uterus produces baby:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/health/uterus-transplant-us-baby-birth/index.html

Next up: female bitchface obsolescence with transplanted uterus into sexbot.

j
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j
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“In checkout ahead of me was a 6 foot tall blonde, in flats. She was young, and on her phone ( surprise ) and she was speaking what sounded Russian, having worked with Russian strippers in the past, but I was clueless as to what her conversation was about.

She was all alone.”

Max insta dating + closing a blonde Russian girl that speaks zero English:

SJF
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Oh, and a .357 is a revolver, not a pistol. I didn’t know it was possible, or even fathomable to put a pearl dress up on a .357. What would be the purpose other than sub-communicating something. Handguns are functional and should be kept that way. They are not a brandishing thing.

I’d run in the other direction from that Ukrainian.

kfg
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“The doctor was what you call a drama queen.”

The doctor was what you call a “Sales Pitch.”

SJF
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“The doctor was what you call a “Sales Pitch.””

And he won that sales pitch (heh, we won over the Ukrainian). Up until the point where he couldn’t take it any more.

Mental point of order and Frame fail in play. What’s the point of winning if you you can’t take life any more?

SJF
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Man, this guy just doesn’t stop, does he:

https://youtu.be/XnIFlD5Zvs8

kfg
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“And he won that sales pitch . . .”

I’ll believe he existed outside of the pitch when I see the marriage and death certificates. If they’re witnessed by a Nigerian prince, I’m out. A remarkable number of Ukrainicorns have a similar pitch.

“Man, this guy just doesn’t stop, does he:”

Beat me to it.

SJF
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“If they’re witnessed by a Nigerian prince, I’m out. A remarkable number of Ukrainicorns have a similar pitch.

Beat me to it also. I took the Ukrainian’s pitch as ridiculous, whereas I first attributed the pitch you spoke of to her former alleged husband physician that committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest (wtf, physician males cannot possibly be that stupid.) with a silly .357 with pearl handlebars.

She’s sub-communicating she’s a witch with her pitch.

SJF
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Nickel plating? That’s really glossing. A stainless steel S&W 686 is as adequate as it gets. The leaf spring trigger is exquisite and a really amazing piece of work.

j
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j
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“Shaming is how women are taught to conform to norms”

https://twitter.com/westland_will/status/937819095994478592

cheupez
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@hh
Yeah. That too. We have been forged in the ancient fires of honor and sacrifice, but are living in times where no one gives a fuck about those. I guess we just have to evolve some more.

@Antihero
A shady woman targeting you for provision may mention a non existent doctor in her past impress on you where she expects you would be starting from (in terms of her expectations)

Yollo Comanche
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70'sAntiHero
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@cheupez, kfg, SJF Yes, your comments have given me doubt as to the believability of her story. I honestly didn’t give it to much thought at the time past a ‘personal tragedy’. She did though, show me images on her phone of the gun as though she was getting ready to put in on craigslist. or something. Like I said, I was trying to get laid not looking for a relationship. So I quite when I recognized the dead end. When you think about, even a blue pilled dude might see fit to run. Hah, I just checked. I still… Read more »

SJF
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Key points 70’sAntiHero: There is no such DHV as pearl handles on a .357. The Ukrainicorn was trying to DHV her bad ass physician who offed himself. Which may have been a lie. No smart physician would shoot himself in the chest rather than suck the barrel and know a bit about anatomy and physiology. It’s really just semantics though. It is not a thing. Put in Red Pill Frame, there is no there, there. Discrimination is not that hard. It is called vapid. You just thought it was stimulating or challenging. It was not. A pink whole that was… Read more »

SJF
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Well I’ll be damned. Rollo’s interview/podcast/ youtube with Donovan Sharpe was beyond good in terms of relationship game. After a couple, three, four years wading through the manosphere as a MRP guy, you couldn’t say shit better. I referenced it earlier and he had it in his twitter feed.

Excellent artistry Rollo. Thanks. You delivered a peak experience with ease.

I give praise to my Mentors.

GDeeJay
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Zeroed you say? How mathematical … in other words, “Get out the way

gdeejay
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Markos Beers
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Blaximus, I agree to agree with you, sort of. Yet even great coaches can misread a situation, exactly as you describe, just like many think NAMALT and can skill/power/mindset through. Thing is, sometimes a team or an individual is simply outmatched. Many, many, many men cannot hold Frame in a marriage. And for those who can, they must vet meticulously, because it’s real hard to Frame a BPD woman. I think it’s most important to recognize if one is able to pull it off. Even with all the training and RP in the world, some men will not be able… Read more »

Sentient
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Gdeejay

Thought that was parody.

EhIntellect
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“I think it’s most important to recognize if one is able to pull it off.”

MRP is the RP stepchild. Often labeled PP, or oneitis-y, unicorny. In this thread even.

It’s a big tent and single guys keep me honest.

Oh yeah! Wrestling practice starts tonight. The best time of the year. The slapping mat sounds, whistles, the yelling, stink, tissues up the nose…awesome.

boulderhead
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“I think it’s most important to recognize if one is able to pull it off. Even with all the training and RP in the world, some men will not be able to follow through.”

As a coach you are in a position to help at a critical stage of developement.

I can still hear old gary telling me I was a helpless sonofabich,pissed me off enough to show him wrong. One year later I was his top wrench. Mindset is key,how to get them there differs. Women are still the best teachers of red pill, if one can survive the lesson.

EhIntellect
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“And for those who can, they must vet meticulously, because it’s real hard to Frame a BPD woman.”

Hi Markos.

Only a minutia of women are BPD. Yeah vetting is helpful, but most guys (me included) cacked up their marriages on their own. IMO “it’s not them, it’s you” is a good starting point. It obviates victim feelings and reinforces freewill.

I stopped fighting my way to a better life and life stopped fighting me.

having a bad day
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@Rollo

thank you…

i’ve said it before, but this place really did save my life…

good luck!

Anonymous Reader
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Markos Beers Many, many, many men cannot hold Frame in a marriage. Many men cannot hold Frame on the job, either, yet there’s an entire industry that exists to train men to do just that. It used to be called “management training” among other things. We can argue about how effective or not that world of training is but it exists for a reason. Holding Frame is an act of will at first, when practiced diligently and with even moderate success it can in time become an unconscious skill. And for those who can, they must vet meticulously, because it’s… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Markos Lol, we are in 99% full agreement. In my estimation, ‘ frame ‘ is like riding a bike ( catch all metaphor..) And one should never struggle to hold it. The problem is that in order to navigate society/culture, we have to compromise sometimes in various circumstances. Our jobs are a perfect example. That mindset of compromise can not be transferred to relationships with women though. You’re absolutely right that a majority of men struggle maintaining frame, but I submit that a vast majority of males spend their formative years never develop a strong frame in the first… Read more »

Shark
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westray
December 2, 2017 at 1:00 pm

““Being a husband is not an alpha move, no matter how hard you try.”
(Read the whole thing, above!!!)
…The whole thing kicks off with the man kneeling in order to propose. Mistake.””

Excellent, insightful. I wish your comment was on Reddit, so I could give you all my gold.

Blaximus
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So, you’ve bought into ‘ you kneel before the woman..’ Thing.

And… Marriage cannot exist without a man initially subjugating himself before the feminine. Sooo…. You base your ‘ not alpha ‘ conclusion based upon this?

Cunning and pervasive for sure.

rugby11
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Blaximus
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Oh, and a subtle’ lol ‘ at trying to be a husband. ‘ husband ‘ is a title ( an arbitrary one at that ). Your mission in life is to put all of your efforts into being a man .. If you’re going to ” try hard ” at anything in this life, being a man is worthy of that effort.

having a bad day
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@mersonia Blaximus (note that i do NOT think that any man should get married in today’s system unless he is specifically having a kid with her… and then, only for the reasons i listed in that analysis for YaReally on pLTRs…) That’s actually a really good question. How long can anyone really keep it up. How long can game which girls will grow accustomed too stand and if you are in a marriage is it upheld by desire or just the fact that the female has invested(lol idk if thats good word (I think become accustomed to being part of… Read more »

having a bad day
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@Blaximus

And why would your wife ” nag ” you?

bc you keep failing those shit tests like a BOSS…lol… nagging is a symptom not a cause…

good luck!

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