False Equivalencies

equivalencies

One of the more persistent questions I get asked about Hypergamy is if there’s a parallel to it in men. I’ve answered this in several comment threads both here and in other forums, but I’ve never really addressed it in a post. When I was considering this I remembered a couple of comments from manosphere luminaries Deti and Novaseeker who I thought summed up this (often deliberate) misconception. Deti was kind enough to provide me with his own observations which I’m quoting and riffing on here:

It’s often said that men and women are both hypergamous.  This isn’t true.  Both men and women optimize.  But only women are hypergamous.

Hypergamy has become a term of art in the manosphere.  It has a very specific meaning which differs from the meaning social scientists ascribe to it.  In social science it refers specifically and only to marriage relationships.   The term is used to refer to women marrying men who are perceived to be wealthier or of a higher social/economic standing or caste, usually observed in Hindu cultures on the Indian subcontinent but also observed in early American society.  In the United States it’s often referred to as women “marrying up”.  

 

 F. Roger Devlin, himself having a social science background, appropriated the term in his essay entitled Sexual Utopia in Power when referring to his observation that young single women always seemed to be looking for the best man they can get at any one time, seeking the most attractive man or men for sex.  Devlin observed modern Western women’s propensity to discard one man in favor of a better man, in serial fashion, always doing their best to “move up” and get  a more attractive, better man with each successive discard and pairing.  

Expanding on this, manosphere writers and bloggers noticed that hypergamy operates at a low hum, like a background operating system, in every woman.   It is “satisfied” while she’s with a man of sufficiently high value. But if a man of perceived higher value or greater attractiveness  shows interest, and/or her current man’s value is faltering, that low hum becomes a loud alarm. This can cause her, at the very least, to have feelings of attraction for the new man and feelings of dis-attraction for the current man. This can in many cases cause her to leave the current man for the new higher value, more attractive man. This doesn’t always happen, but it can happen. Hypergamy can operate in any combination – more attractive man showing interest; current man’s attractiveness waning or falling, and anywhere in between. Thus, the manosphere’s use of the term “hypergamy” came into being, to refer to a core aspect of female sexual nature which is unique to women. 

If you do a Google search for the term ‘Hypergamy’ you’ll find The Rational Male and the topic category link for all the posts I’ve ever done on it is the second return you’ll get below the Wikipedia entry for the term. At the risk of a humble-brag, I’m not sure anyone in the ‘sphere has written more extensively on the subject than myself and I think Deti sums up the conflict in definition that both critics and the uninitiated have with their understanding why there is a need for a broader definition of Hypergamy.

I made an effort to address this in The Hypergamy Conspiracy, but this was some time ago. ‘Hypergamy’ serves well in a much broader capacity, but should the Feminine Imperative find that broader definition threatening to its purpose it will casually dismiss it as illegitimate, because the manosphere appropriated the term. Thus, we’ll see feminine-primary society embrace the larger ideas of Hypergamy (as in the embrace of Open Hypergamy) so long as it’s flattering to, and benefits most, women. Once it gets ugly, then it conveniently denies the legitimacy of the broad definition and it’s strictly about the “women having a tendency to marry up” sociology term.

People confuse “optimization” with “hypergamy“. Both men and women optimize; meaning they want the best they can get, of anything and everything. Men and women optimize everything:  jobs, cars, houses, furniture, friends, even churches. Men and women optimize with each other. But men and women optimize with the opposite sex in different ways, and that’s where the confusion comes in.

Hypergamy in its current iteration in the manosphere means essentially “is attracted only to people who are more attractive than I am”.  Women will be sexually attracted to men who they perceive as “above” them in attractiveness.  They will be somewhat attracted to men who are at their rough SMV level, but that man must bring other things to the table, usually provisioning and commitment, before she will have sex with him. And women are never ever sexually attracted to men who are perceived to be beneath their own SMV level.  

Example:   A woman with SMV = 7 will be sexually attracted to males with SMV of 8 and up.   She will pair with a male 7, if and only if he brings “other things” to the table. She will never be sexually attracted to male 6s on down.  And she will be able to easily get sex with men above her in SMV.  She can occasionally get relationships with male 8s.  She can easily get relationships and sex with male 7s.  Male 6s on down are her orbiters, with whom she’ll never have sex.   

Female critics of the broader definition of Hypergamy often have a (contrived) problem with the distinction between optimization and Hypergamy. And, as Deti explains, a lot of this comes from the fact that women’s sense of their own sexual market value is largely overinflated. Women rate 80 percent of men below average in attractiveness. When you contrast, even loose, statistics like this against the broader idea of Hypergamy you start to see why women would want there to be some analogous kind of Hypergamy for men. Hypergamy in women is founded on three bedrock truths:

    • Persistent doubt that a woman has adequately ‘optimized’ on Hypergamy with any man she has, or will potentially have, consolidated on a long term relationship with.
    • Hypergamy never seeks its own level. Women are always looking for a better-than-equal pairing with men in respect to their own SMV compared to his. When 80% of men are (loosely) agreed to be below average in attractiveness to women, we must consider that this assessment is measured in relation to what women’s Hypergamous doubt might be optimized with in a man.
  • Women’s Hypergamy is based in, and the source of, women’s dualistic sexual strategy. The manosphere euphemism for this is Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks. This shorthand refers to Hypergamy seeking optimization in both short-term-sex breeding potential and (ideally) long-term parental investment, protection and provisioning security potential.

It’s important to review these principles of Hypergamy because, for all the protestations of women wanting an equal comparison, there are no parallels of Hypergamy for men’s sexual strategy.

Deti continues:

Men do not operate like this at all.  And that’s the difference.   Men are not attracted only to women who are above them in SMV. A man can be, and often is, attracted to women above him in SMV, and to women at his SMV level and also to women below him in SMV. What is also different is the level of women he can get and how well his relationships will work out, based on his and her SMV.   

A man will be unable to continue a relationship with a woman above his SMV. He is very sexually attracted to them, and occasionally lucks out and gets sex with one or two; but he can’t sustain a relationship with them. He can get sex from women at his SMV level but only if he goes all in and offers commitment. He can most easily get sex with women below him in SMV, many times no strings attached sex. 

Example: A male 6 will rarely get sex with a 7 but can’t keep anything with her going. He’s not even on the radar of female 8s on up. He can get sex with a female 6 only if he offers commitment and provisioning. He can most easily get sex with female 5s on down. 

And here’s the grand difference: A man is OK with having sex with women at and below his own SMV. In fact, he’ll be happiest in his relationships with women beneath his own SMV – a woman is “meh” about sex with men at her SMV, and she is positively repulsed and sickened at having sex with men below her own SMV. She’ll be happiest in a relationship with a man above her own SMV and she can tolerate a man at her SMV. And she’ll be miserable at best with a man beneath her SMV and will tend to blow up those relationships. 

Men and women both have attraction floors. Men’s attraction floor is below their own SMV.   Women’s attraction floor is either above her own SMV and sometimes at her own SMV, but never beneath it.

I explore the fundamentals of intimate attachments and how SMV status influences it here. That article might be worth reviewing because in it is a lesson about Hypergamy. Again, compare the idea that the most secure attachments between couples are ones where the dominant, man’s, SMV status is roughly 1-2 points above that of the woman’s and contrast that against the fact that women rate 80% of men’s attractiveness as ‘below average’.

Also, keep in mind the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies: For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

The other, minor difference is that men are polygamous, not hypergamous. A man’s imperative is not (necessarily) to get the best woman. It’s to get as many women as possible with as little investment and commitment as possible. If he can do it, he would love to get as many women as possible at and a little below his own SMV, and have sex with as many of them as possible for as long as possible, without committing to or investing in any of them.   That’s spinning plates. Most men don’t do this, because they can’t, because they’re not attractive enough, but that’s a different post.  

A woman’s imperative is to get the best one man she can get for sex and for provisioning.     That’s why you don’t see many women “dating” (i.e. having sex with) several different men at the same time. Women don’t spin plates; they pick the best plate they can and take care of it as best they can. Instead of trying to collect plates, they just change out the plates, one for another, when a bigger, better one comes along.  

This is why the best long term relationship is one in which the man outranks his woman in SMV. He should be at least +1 and preferably +2 in SMV.  This makes both of them happiest in the long run.

On many an occasion I’ve fielded the question, “Well Rollo, if there’s a Feminine Imperative, there must be a Masculine Imperative.” People don’t usually like the answer, but from a strictly evolutionary and biological perspective, the Masculine (or male) Imperative is Unlimited Access to Unlimited Sexuality.

Deti summed this up adequately here, but the more high-minded of my critics will often think the ‘male imperative’ is setting the bar too low for men, but usually this comes from a want of something more than the visceral truth of what motivates us. And I’d agree with this for the most part, if men are to become something more than their base natures would have of them. But using the same reproductive metric I use in describing women’s Hypergamy I’ve also got to recognize that men’s drive for sex has been the incentive for our greatest achievements and our worst proclivities. If we are to be ethical in our judgements we must be amoral in our assessments. Sometimes those assessments will be unflattering for men and women.

The objective issue here is that men’s imperative is not analogous to women’s imperative. When we look at men’s approach to gratifying this imperative we see the stark contrast between women’s Hypergamy and men’s sexual strategy.

False Equivalencies

One of the most predictable responses I expect to hear from women when they chafe at various Red Pill truths is always the first presumption of false equivalencies between the sexes. Whenever I, or any Red Pill man relates some unflattering truth about the nature of women, without fail, the first reflexive response is “well, men do this too, and it’s worse,…” or there’s some other unflattering presumption about the nature of men that’s supposed to provide some counterbalance to the ugly truth about women that’s being related. Feminized men and White Knights will also adopt this tact in order to defend the honor of the Sisterhood so as to have there be no doubt that they ‘aren’t like typical men’ in their identifying with women.

This is to be expected though. The first impulse is to defend against anyone acknowledging that truth by distraction. “Ooh, ooh, men do it too!” is a distraction meant to refocus the intent of objectively (amorally) assessing what is otherwise an unflattering aspect of female nature, behavior and/or the motivators that prompt it. In order to do so we are expected to first presume a co-equal state between men and women, as well as a co-equal state of mutual goals. Thus, for women’s distraction to be effective there must be a presumed state of equivalency between men and women.

As such, we are, by default, expected to accept that if there is a female Hypergamy there must also be a male form of Hypergamy. This is a very useful illustration of the false equivalency principle women rely upon. Deductively it should make sense, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, but only in a mindset and a social order based on egalitarian-equalism is that reaction presumed to be the binary opposite of the original action.

If, as equalism would have us accept, men and women are functional equals, then it follows that there must be a male Hypergamy that is the reaction to women’s (often unflattering) Hypergamy. Women’s innate solipsism only reinforces this presumption because only an action that impacts a woman (positively or negatively) is deemed a legitimate truth to that mindset. I would argue that this is exactly why women’s first reflexive defense (to anything challenging her gender-defined ego-investments) will always be to presume some gender-opposite reaction for men. The belief is that while she can’t deny the proposed truth, at least (she) women aren’t as bad as men. From there the objective is to distract from that uncomfortable truth by indicting (functionally equal) men’s natures.

All of this presumption only functions in a social order that’s based on the idea of egalitarian-equalism between the sexes. When we look at things from a gender-complementarity perspective, and we accept that there are fundamental differences in the innate natures and motivators of men and women, those distractions become less effective. Just as Deti explains for us here, once we accept that men are not co-equal agents with women, we don’t even expect that there would be an equivalent to women’s Hypergamy in men.

The genders are different. We both have strategies for sex and life and fulfillment that are often not analogous to one another. Women only expect that there would be analogies because they presume that a female experience, female goals and contexts that benefit the Feminine Imperative will necessarily be what men mutually agree upon as what’s best for themselves. Only in a state of equalism, ignorant and intolerant of anything not agreed upon by ‘feminine correctness’, is there a presumption that men must have some parallel to the motivators and behaviors that prompt women. Only in a state of solipsism is this the subconscious assumption.

This is something to keep in mind the next time a woman bemoans how unfair double standards are for women. Men are not women, women are not men. Our strategies are often incompatible, or at the very least require a degree of compromise or total acquiescence to coexist in an ostensibly symbiotic relationship between men and women. It is only women (and feminized men) who default to supposing men are their functional equals.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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I know guys who made the vasectomy round trip. Snip. Unsnip. Snip again.

My wife raised vasectomy at one point, a friend of hers said it made things much less stressful and spontaneous. I told her my next wife may want kids… lolz.

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The idea of a vasectomy is psychologically debilitating…

Nope.

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[…] Have you ever heard the term feminine hypergamy and wondered what the hell people were talking about? The always erudite Rollo Tomassi lays it all out for us. […]

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Palmasailor

Well that’s still a form of a shit test…

Rimshot…?

ManlyMan
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thedeti sez: “For women, there’s want to fuck, willing to fuck, and won’t fuck”

Fuck. Marry. Kill.

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“But only women are hypergamous.” really? I think I am hypergamous. I would drop my wife in a second if I found a better piece. but she wouldn’t let that happen. should would just bring the new girl in. like what Ton has (share your secrets, Ton!). I pass on a lot of easy sex because I have very specific tastes, a low disgust threshold, despise sloppy seconds and I know the odds are that any one of these broads won’t be a better fuck than my wife, whom I fuck daily+ and sucks my cock with just a wink.… Read more »

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@Fleezer: “”I will say, cocksmanship seems to go a long way. looks don’t matter, “money” don’t matter, social standing don’t matter… just be a good fucker. because they all love to get fucked out good and proper.”” Nice thought but completely male, logical linear thinking. Fucking for women is a tool…it’s part of their hypergamous nature. You seem to believe contrary to ev psych that just “fuck her good” is enough. Read the posts about menstruation as a key to understanding the cyclical nature of a woman’s sexuality. Also, understand that women want an alpha who will ALSO be a… Read more »

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“Put yourself in situations where favorable consequences are much larger than unfavorable ones…Indeed, the notion of asymmetric outcomes is the central idea of this book: I will never get to know the unknown since, by definition, it is unknown. However, I can always guess how it might affect me, and I should base my decisions around that.” –Nassim Taleb, The Black Swan Fleezer and Walawala, you guys are kind of freaking me out with your clarity after I just woke up from a nap. Your mindsets are great. Your tactics are yours. And congratulations on your optionality (low downside, high… Read more »

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@ fleezer Good question: ” I wonder what percentage of chicks are actually good in bed “(?) I’d have to cosign your 10% or less figure, from my experience. I’m talking about girls that know how to actually fuck and go off like a nuclear bomb. Now, a man can make another 30-40% of them good in bed by sparking the shit out of their desires. This is yet another reason why I’d grown tired of the ” Hottie ” chicks. Some of the absolute hottest chicks I’d ever banged weren’t the best natural lays. I had to tinker and… Read more »

Blaximus
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….damn. Maybe I shoulda wrote my post in Field Reports.

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Like Fleezer I havn’t seen anything worth trading in the wife on,for a long time.Don’t know if it is POV or syncronicity or just seeing what I am looking for. But in any case I don’t consider myself hypergamous,this word is more about feelz,and I am way too rational for that,no trade in for just better sex. Damn Blax,sounds like another case of hidden sexual harrassment in the work place.Don’t even think about reporting her just to even the score! Nobody will believe you man.Women are to be molded by the men,brassie security has been molded by the FI,maybe not… Read more »

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Willingness to bang, whenever, whereever is a definite plus. If she’s uninhibited, she’ll throw herself at the task with extra vigor. My two cents.

Friday again already. Have a great weekend.

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@Rugby, I’m doing that 30 day challenge.

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Dalrock
http://wp.me/pXWyH-_bxS

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Blax

You are a bad boy. Coach up a work bro with your technique to at least put this girl out of her misery. Or you may find your ass tazed and cuffed in the back of her trunk.

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“Women break rules for Alphas to reward, they make more rules for Betas for the same reward.”
https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/837506036135145472
https://soundcloud.com/vince-soria/chevelle
https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/837725090108223488

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Mon November 18, 2013 “A lion at the Dallas Zoo bit and killed a lioness in their exhibit as visitors watched Sunday afternoon in an attack officials said they couldn’t immediately explain.” Male Hypergamy? “The zoo said Johari died quickly. Witness Dylan Parker told WFAA that the attacking lion held Johari by the neck “for like 10 minutes … waiting until it quit moving.”” I’d consider that a divorce… “Lynn Kramer, a veterinarian and the zoo’s vice president of animal operations and welfare, said the attack was a “very rare and unfortunate occurrence.”” Women psychologically “kill” their males in the… Read more »

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11 Surprising Facts about the Reproductive System https://www.instagram.com/p/YVqk40GP7M/ #11. The Human Reproductive System Contains Both The Largest and Smallest Cells in The Body While there are an amazing amount of cells in the human body of different sizes, only the reproductive system contains both the largest human cells and the smallest. The smallest cell is produced by men. Their small sperm is only 5 x3 micrometers in size, excluding the sperm’s tail. On the other side, the female reproductive system produces the largest cell, with the egg. The size of the egg is roughly 120 micrometers in diameter. These are… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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“Strength has no gender right up until women need physical protection from men.”

Pulled it out of a fortune cookie. Ah swears.

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I had the snip about five years ago in my late 30’s and holy crap it was the best thing I’ve ever done. That thing about hormonal birth control making women unattractive and crazy? It’s totally true – even she admits it. Sex with the wife is now more frequent and kinky although this does correspond with me starting on my RP journey. Honestly I’m over the having babies thing – poor sleep, changing diapers, endless nesting behaviour – I’m done with that shit. At this stage if anything happens to the wife or kids I’m tempted to think I’ll… Read more »

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There is definitely a lot of bitterness about women in RP circles. It is kind of hard to miss. But there is also a lot of self awareness in this regard (ie, “anger phase”). There is no equivalent in feminist circles. They are simply oblivious to their misandry. And in some cases, misandry is the very heart of their ideology (whereas RP is, we hope, based on the empirical study of human behavior). But the lack of self-awareness among feminists is striking nonetheless. Here’s a great example: Why I won’t date another ‘male feminist’ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/19/why-i-wont-date-another-male-feminist Typical of feminist discourse, the… Read more »

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@palmasailor

Note there’s two men. Note that one is provisioning, the other one is fucking. She is hypergamously optimized for the moment until a better provisioner or genes came along, or if the genes (you, in this case) decided to provision as well as the other guy, she’d drop him and complete the branch swing.

It is not incorrect, you’re just not understanding what a branch swing looks like. For a brief or possibly long moment she’ll be holding both branches. It’s still a branch swing.

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Holy Shit I just watched the movie Manchester By the Sea. That was a good watch. But Oddly, It was totally written, directed and acted in a neutral zone between Red Pill and Blue Pill. (the actress Michelle Williams from Blue Valentine is a placeholder in this movie, interestingly.) Red pill lenses do nothing for clarity on how sometimes shit just happens, or people let shit just happen without control over the direction of their lives. And then like some protagonists like guys here, find themselves in situations like the main character. It is impossible to tell whether the protagonist… Read more »

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Also watched another movie on Netflix that I think Rugby would like, in a nihilistic vein. It is the movie Starlet.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/starlet-2012

I don’t really have an opinion on that one, it was just unique and visually appealing, Earnest Hemmingway’s great grand-daughter and all. Strangely neutral on Red Pill also. Hard to understand how that can happen in the visual arts. But it was also evidenced in the brilliant series Breaking Bad.

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http://acculturated.com/manchester-by-the-sea/ Hah, I figured it’s actually anti red pill and masculine self improvement with the Butterfly Effect in full force. : <blockquote. It’s also an overrated film that gets male grief wrong. Manchester by the Sea suffers from what I call Forrest Gump Syndrome. It’s a film where the lead character never changes, leading to narrative inertia. Lee Chandler is a zombie, a man so debilitated by sorrow and regret that he can’t even sustain a basic conversation. For the first thirty minutes or so of the film, this works. Affleck shuffles around, mumbling through repair jobs and getting into… Read more »

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@palmasailor great frame control. Blackdragon is a poor man’s Mystery with all his acroynyms and rules…I find his blog entertaining and there are pearls of wisdom there. He sounds like a great guy in real life. Where I take exception is that while the 4 month rule works for a guy who has given up entirely on the relationship and committed himself to walking away…it gives false hope to guys deeply invested and battling oneitis… The four month rule should be more like a “four month truth”….girls who dumped you suss you out after 4 months if they think you’ve… Read more »

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I think the most contributing fact to Feminism and Equalism is Technology. Could anyone imagine primitive societies that promote the female primacy ? Yes, there are/were indeed some few tribe that promoted matriarchy but most of them are overwhelmingly patriarchal. Contraceptions, safety, the demise of occupations that require courage, strength handcraft have all contributed to the ongoing feminisation …and this will be worse when automation (so called second industrial revolution) takes place and the last jobs that require these qualites will be replaced by robots. No, I don’t see a positive change…it will get worse. I do not support technophobia… Read more »

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@ Walawala I think Blackdragons 4 month deal works IF you handle getting dumped correctly. Meaning, if she starts to get distant, GET LOST and go on with your life assuming you’ll never see her again. Either way, there’s almost always another man involved. The guy getting dumped just doesn’t know yet. Tough when the poor bastard is in love, but almost always true. And for someone with oneitis (ahem, me), WTF bro? Do you really want that unfaithful skank back? That is…until you realize you are just justifying your decision because the next one will have the same hypergamous… Read more »

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@ Attila

I think it’s just a buffer. Hypergamy existed millions of years before Edison. It’s just easier with smartphones than when someone’s mom was fucking the milkman.

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@SJF “wiser choices could have been made very, very early on in regards to red pill. Esp. married red pill.” I let my frame slake over 20 years or so, believed we could share responsibility with kids, us and in different areas, I needed to be so fucking busy with accomplishments, hobbies. I lost my azimuth. Then again, I was never fully betatized, hence my low grade frustrations, determination to set this right. I now hold an umbrella of authority. Much better. I just don’t talk as much at home and work, I’ve stopped working for other’s happiness per se,… Read more »

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Dizzle- and for all guys who spin. In regard to recreation-
I’m not a big fan of this because I’m clean and fear stds. I hate condoms and would rather not even spend my energies fucking a stranger for their own pleasure. Same with plates that you don’t know what they’re up to behind your back. I like flavorful medium term relationships that have no future, with possibly a little side stuff here and there.
How do you navigate through the health risks of recreational sex and have it be enjoyable?

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@Boxcar The Misandry of feminists comes out when you reject their advances, or humiliate them in front of their friends. See. Women LOVE or socially program themselves to “love” a challenge. Their ideology is about telling them they can have what they don’t deserve if they act like they don’t want it. So basically attract them by not thinking they are hot(because they typically aren’t), and then they try to flirt, and you laugh at them and point out their physical unsuitability. BAM. Tit for tat. This is hard to do. Believe it or not, men are actually pretty nice… Read more »

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Re: bitter misogynist Spent an evening with my feminist sister weeks back. She’d often tell me in the deepest BP/FI how to treat my lady. She’s remarried to BB, now, so she knows! She’d feign indignation when I’d be masculine, not defer to Mrs., say non pc innuendo. Well, that evening I blasted sis with RP charm, PUA, really twirled her around the dance floor as if I was gaming her. Hardedge to my commentary, emitting sexuality to my lady, all ladies. I led sis, pulling her close around the dance floor. By night’s she was as feminine in words… Read more »

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@Dizzle I went to a party the other night and my ex plate showed up. I was surprised because she normally wouldn’t come to something like this. But it was full of hot girls and I was in a party mood. I gamed a few, the hostess sat me at the VIP table, I chatted and danced with one of the performers brought in to entertain. It was at that point I looked over at the plate and realized just how pathetic and mean-spirited she is. She was constantly flying off the handle, sending nasty texts provoking arguments and kind… Read more »

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@EhIntellect In response to your 7:32 comment: Good to hear your situation report. Thanks for reporting on MRP style. “Speaking of, she talks much more at me, states she’s truly happy for the first time in her life. All the self help churchy books fell short, she admits, wants to make up for lost time, her head spins still about this all. She stopped reading my TRM posts weeks back as she realizes this never was about her, realizes she doesn’t understand the subtext of TRM, and now is just letting go.” It’s very important for red pill men to… Read more »

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@Rollo Right, I don’t feel angry at women, just because they are hypergamous. How a guy responds to RP is going to depend on his experience and nature. (Frankly, I find it liberating — being true to one’s masculine nature is inherently rewarding, even if women did not find it attractive.) Feminists, on the other hand, feel victimized by the very existence of male sexuality. So it is funny to see a feminist woman complain about men who have taken her seriously enough to have repressed their evil sexuality. @Eh Yea, It is pretty obvious that the feminist author is… Read more »

cheupez
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Great reading. Surprise. Feminism has come quite far indeed. An article about something as basic as men are not women and women are not men that makes a great reading. One would have imagined that writing on the subject would sound as ridiculous as harping on about some ridiculously odd subject like vomiting and coughing are not the same thing. But not so.

EhIntellect
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Thx SJF for the words.

“Avoid the temptation of revealing how hard you work”

Lazing works again lately, my “I’m going to rape you eyes” are back. God, brothers, that shit is fun, to see the fear, the chase, the challenge.

My favorite line: I’m very good at this…feel free to resist…it’s more interesting…for me.

EhIntellect
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Before I forget:

We were talking re: our her own journey. Wife mentioned the phrase “starting over”.

After she finished I stated:

“Starting over is more true than you think, honey. We are becoming the people we are supposed to be, long ago, without all the cultural rot distorting our feminine, masculine selves. Perhaps we’ve found our 6-year old selves again, the boy and girl who were fully comfortable with their own bodies, physical inequality, sexuality. Fully feminine, fully masculine and appreciating both. We’re married to changed person, changed, back as far as childhood. We’re literally different people.”

rugby11
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rugby11
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“There are very few Red Pill men who are genuine haters of women.”

Anonymous Reader
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Palmasailor Ok.. got it. for some reason I’d visualised branch swinging like Tarzan swinging through the forest hanging on vines. Grabbing one and letting go of the last. Then grabbing the next etc… But they don’t do that do they… they might swing to another branch, but they never really let go of previous ones they thought were optimal. They send back the odd radar ping (fuck) to see if they can recover what they didn’t/don’t want to let go of. Some do that, some don’t. It depends on a lot of variables. As a man who has been “the… Read more »

SJF
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@Palmasailor and Anonymous Reader Notwithstanding the Alpha Widow effect there is Briffaults Law. At least where children are involved and family. The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place. — Robert Briffault In following, there are 3 corollaries: Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association. Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male… Read more »

SJF
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@EhIntellect “Thx SJF for the words.” Thank you for following the red pill script, doing it right and reporting it. Ever notice no one around you, IRL, will ever give you that? That you are doing things right? That’s why they invented the manosphere. Your Reconstruction and best rendition of Shiny, Happy People holding hands (success as a Patriologist) is going to make your patriarchal role live on in the children long after you do. And in the chaos of maladaptation that is the social order of 2017, you are bringing order. Good Job. Happy healthy families are rare. It’s… Read more »

Dizzle
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@Augustus

Answer? You don’t. My ex wife brought home VD. I have never been so grateful for a dead bedroom in my life. Palma nailed it, you have no idea what they are doing.

Fwiw, I don’t do ONS on principal, nor do I enjoy fresh strange.

Max from Australia
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Here is a list of every single time I have been hurt by women. See if you can spot the common thread: When my first Girlfriend hooked up with a weedy loser = I was really hurt…was I hitting the gym, self improving and spinning plates..NO When my ex-wife got stopped putting out on our honeymoon = I was really hurt…was I hitting the gym, self improving and spinning plates..NO When my ex-wife fivorced me and took most of my money = I was really hurt…was I hitting the gym, self improving and spinning plates..NO When my Feminazi boss sacked… Read more »

Shiva
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@palmasailor
“Her two close friends who are in crap boring marriages were furious with her for dumping me and both told her to keep me going on the side. If they could have got such an arrangement discretely enough they would have taken it.

I followed the black dragon 4 month rule, and almost to the day the e mail pinged in and she was back in bed. So it has continued.

My other plates have followed an identical format.”

Amen to that. Godspeed to you.

kobayashii1681
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Sublime….

Dizzle
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@Max You can be doing all that stuff and still get dumped. Trust me. The underlying thread needs to be have thicker skin, and not take it too seriously. Chicks are going to leave you, accept it, if they start to space dump them early rather than later, disappear from their lives, and keep doing what you were doing that makes you happy. Even if you are running perfect game, you are just maximizing your time with her before the next branch swing. Once you realize that seventh grade never ended for women and never will, your life gets a… Read more »

Playdontpay
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Regarding SMV it’s important to recognise that it’s highly subjective otherwise you might limit your opportunities. I have a friend who is dating a model type who I guess most men would rate a Hb9+. I however have ZERO sexual interest in this girl, I can see she has a beautiful face, hair teeth etc but her long slim catwalk model body inspires zero lust in me she fails the “boner test” so TO ME her SMV is unfuckable. Her boyfriend is a pretty boy type dresses like a hipster etc most girls would rate him about a 9 I… Read more »

Dizzle
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@Palma,

How did you come upon that “two close friends” Intel? Just curious.

It also proves women cannot be rationalized with. The one who really got in my head last year dumped me for a guy she met on POF who lives two hours away. If she won’t listen to her friends, the hamster will do.

M Simon
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Playdontpay
March 5, 2017 at 6:48 am

Quite true. I also got a lot of “how did you get her” when I was more active.

This past V-day a 20 something waitress made a mild pass at me. The OL was thrilled. Dread + Validation.

anon
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Han Solo: “The enormous technology-plus-cheap-energy fueled rise in global prosperity and safety (as evidenced by the huge growth in population; and yes, even in places like Africa where medicine keeps babies from dying so that their population has exploded) over the last 100 or more years is far greater than ever experienced and raises the question of whether this time “it’s different” (I’m not saying it is) or whether the diminished need of the beta provider/protector male on the individual female level will cause so many of the beta males to check out that society will regress and give rise… Read more »

SJF
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@EhIntellect A follow up from your comment here: “I let my frame slake over 20 years or so, believed we could share responsibility with kids, us and in different areas, I needed to be so fucking busy with accomplishments, hobbies. I lost my azimuth. Then again, I was never fully betatized, hence my low grade frustrations, determination to set this right. I now hold an umbrella of authority. Much better. I just don’t talk as much at home and work, I’ve stopped working for other’s happiness per se, make myself understood by action. If people want to know what I’m… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“. . . you don’t see a lot of monogamy paring in the ghettos/hoods/ barrios.” You don’t see the wealth and ease of those neighborhoods, and the way it is distributed. In part, perhaps, because you didn’t see the slums before the Great Society, when money started to flow like water through those places. I remember neighbors who lived in a “dollhouse” through multiple NY winters. My mom and I barely made it out of the 50’s alive. You won’t see that these days. The slums are too rich and cared for. Women. Infants. Children. The new Great Society leisure… Read more »

anon
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“Women. Infants. Children. The new Great Society leisure class. The ghettos aren’t poor, they’re decadent.”

Lot of crime for a leisure class. I wouldn’t want it.
But let’s agree that’s true…are they living in leisure in the Congo as well?
Most polygamous societies seem to summarily suck.
And they are less prosperous (with the exception of ones experiencing a large amount of cash flow for one reason or another from monogamous societies).

kfg
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kfg
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“Lot of crime for a leisure class.”

Every leisure class needs hobbies. Crime is one of their favorites. Sex and drug crimes top the list. They have the time and money to indulge. Read Miss Marple.

“…are they living in leisure in the Congo as well?”

War and political corruption are other favorite hobbies of the leisure class, especially if they can mix it with drugs and sex.

Monogamy is a vice of the stable, middle classes.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
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I’ll just leave this here:

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/03/a_guide_to_a_good_divorce_breaks_up_the_misery.html

Have I read it yet? No. I’ll let one of you guys do that, then come back and tell me all about it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Rollo, totally understand what you are saying about the male sexual imperative being different from female sexual imperative (ie hypergamy). But I don’t understand how your definition of male sexual imperative explains how an older established man tosses aside his longstanding wife for a younger hotter version of her. He may have had enough of his wife’s nonsense or whatever, but in many cases the only thing the wife did “wrong” was to age like normal people do, like he himself does. Is this not male hypergamy ? Or is it the case that men are “forced” into adopting the… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Lot’s of x’s:

“Is this not male hypergamy ? ”

No, it is female hypergamy. The man’s secretary is marrying up.

” . . . is it the case that men are “forced” into . . . ie more acceptable to trade in an old wife for a new than to adopt a whole harem of youngies.”

There ya go.

Augustus West
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I live in a large, educated and generally wealthy city. Something I’ve found incredible over the recent years, within the dating pool of 30-40yo’s, is the amount of women going back to school full time to begin a whole new career. These aging single women always want the option of having a family too, while they tow this new debt into their next new life. When I meet them I nod my head, get what I can, and keep moving.

anon
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What would you do in their position, Augustus West?
Is this behavior truly incredible/inexplicable/surprising?
Everything in life is a cost/benefit analysis equation.
They failed the first part but that doesn’t stop the analysis.

anon
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“Monogamy is a vice of the stable, middle classes.”

Blessed are those who…give the fewest fucks about how to be interesting. Because real life is pretty mundane 90 percent of the time. And that’s actually good.

SJF
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“What would you do in their position, Augustus West?”

I’d certainly turn masculine and rationalize things out after the fact.

“Is this behavior truly incredible/inexplicable/surprising?”

Certainly not. Is this red pill thing still on?

Augustus West
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Anon- if I was them I would choose either family or career. Raising kids with a new job at age 40 with a 60 hour work week in my opinion is irrational.

SJF
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“Because real life is pretty mundane 90 percent of the time.”

I used to have to claw my way towards having a more mundanity in my life five years ago. Red pill, Frame, MPO, outcome independence and abundance mentality as well as a little Alan Watts and Game with enlightened self-interest got me there. It was a tough climb, but now I got that option. I’m not about to stop being interested or interesting.

And I’m having Cioppino for dinner.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . real life is pretty mundane 90 percent of the time.”

I’ve got a friend whose father had to flee Argentina in the middle of the night . . . twice.

Whenever my friend would complain about being bored, his father would tell him, “You should be grateful for your boredom.”

anon
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AW: “Anon- if I was them I would choose either family or career. Raising kids with a new job at age 40 with a 60 hour work week in my opinion is irrational.” Well, from my perspective it is too. But I didn’t wake up at 40 childless. It’s a pretty strong biological need. And since they’re really long in the tooth they might get replaced and need to have that career to fall back on, right? SJF, the minute a person worries about being interesting, they stop being interesting. By all means enjoy life but don’t worry about being… Read more »

Augustus West
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Anon- right, but my point was that these are second careers. Maybe that wasn’t too clear.

SJF
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“Real life will never live up to a thousand fake “interesting” social media feeds.”

Otherwise know as inauthentic fake dopamine feeds.

Or as Scott Adams would say:

“The Dopamine Puppet idea is compatible with what I call the Persuasion Filter. This view on life says we do things for chemical rewards and we rationalize those choices after the fact as being totally reasonable. Our sense of reason is an illusion when it comes to most of our actions.”

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/157904840851/dopamine-puppets

anon
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“Whenever my friend would complain about being bored, his father would tell him, “You should be grateful for your boredom.”

That was a wise man.
I’ve never been bored a minute in my life.
Spent two years in confinement/wheelchair and never been bored.

anon
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“Otherwise know as inauthentic fake dopamine feeds.” Yes exactly so. Another thing that social media has done is quickly altered the context of social courtesies. If you aren’t on social media, you’re “safe”. Essentially you aren’t held up to the same expectations (from my experience ignoring social media…but I might be wrong. People might’ve been talking badly about me the entire time). It’s kind of like e-mail and cell phones. We expected those things to make our lives easier but it just adds work, because everyone has them everyone is expected to have access to them at all times. And… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Sun: Aniki!! Hisashiburi desu neeee…

Blaximus
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” Because real life is pretty mundane 90 percent of the time “

…holy shit. 90%???? For reelz???

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-confused-Morgan-Freeman-OMG-shock-shocked-surprised-wtf-say-what-GIF.gif

Blaximus
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@ All

If your ” real life ” is mundane 90% of the time, you need to find something else to do with your time. Like, ASAP!!!!!!!!!

theasdgamer
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@anon

I’m INTJ borderline autist.

This one’s for you…

SJF
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Awww. Calm down guys, that’s just Anon’s recharging her batteries for a couple days after her energy depleting social engagement battle the other day. http://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2016/08/09/12-stress-busting-techniques-intjs/ A Re-Cap Of What Causes An INTJ Stress: – Being in an environment that doesn’t appreciate their skills or vision – Not enough time alone. Too much socializing. – Too much noise or sensory input. – Working with those they see as lazy, ignorant, or incompetent – Having to focus on too many details at once – Being in unfamiliar environments – Having their plans disrupted – Having to focus entirely on the here-and-now –… Read more »

rugby11
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Sociology
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jrw

anon
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Thanks SJF, Friday night was the nadir (or apex, depending how one looks at it) but it’s been months of this gig and the massive full-time social overload of forced-fun is starting to get to me. And I like these people. I can’t imagine what this would be like if I didn’t. Thought I’d share something funny I read this morning. Then I’ll go. It’s Lent season after all and no longer Sunday. “Reading lefty tweets, comment boards, and “journalistic”pieces these past few days it seems there is almost nothing nefarious that the Russians cannot do successfully. Most notable among… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@anon

If Obummer was a NeoAntiColonialist, we would expect him to seek to reduce the wealth, power, and influence of not only the U.S., but also of Russia and western Europe. His loyalty would be to Unaligned Nations (e.g., African nations, China, Cuba, etc.) Russia would have been hurt by an Obama presidency. The Russians would be fearful of other Democratic candidates for president.

theasdgamer
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@SJF

And ASDgamer, she’s not really autistic, she just has traits of one.

She’s not a duck even though she flies, swims, and quacks like a duck. Got it. XD

theasdgamer
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“Because real life is pretty mundane 90 percent of the time. And that’s actually good.”

And may you live in uninteresting times, too.

an ancient non-oriental blessing–attributed to anon the sage

theasdgamer
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Mundane Sat. night out…90% of my life is uninteresting I arrived at the bar at 9:30 and left two hours later. I was tired and the night was pretty boring. one girl I danced with was following me all over the bar and having her friend video her around me while I was doing a line dance…she also did a forcefull titty rub across my back… …lots of young (oldest was 30) girls wanted my attention… …only two girls refused my request to dance… …I asked one girl if it was Ok for me to put my drink near her… Read more »

Jackie Treehorn
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It seems most women’s assessment of their own SMV is “fixed” at the age when they are at their hottest (18-25). They rarely take into account their declining SMV until they are way past the Wall and find it much more difficult (or impossible) to secure commitment from a good man.

rugby11
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Worth a read
http://wp.me/p5MelF-1LV

Ajax Parallax
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Enjoy this one, lads.

To the poster upthread whose hairy masculine vs. pretty boy looks are appreciated by a selection of women. The FI will make sure you know who’s boss in case you get too cocky, silly boy. lol

Oh, and there’s a push to make this change permanent.
As Rollo Tomassi constantly points out — does anyone still question the pervasiveness of the feminine imperative?

http://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/brawny-celebrates-womens-history-month-by-replacing-the-brawny-man-on-packaging/

kfg
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kfg
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“It just always reveals to me how many misconceptions and what a misunderstanding there is about what feminism is,” she [Watson] said.”

And you’re just maybe just starting to learn just who has those misconceptions, Sugar Tits. Buckle your seatbelt, this was just the first bump of the ride.

Anonymous Reader
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kfg when referring to Ms. Watson I think the more correct term is Sugar Bumps.

Anonymous Reader
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EhIntellect
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“Imagine that a man must go off to war. He hugs his woman goodbye.” Two films come to mind. Watched Rob Roy again, RP glasses on. Yikes! Alpha Tim Roth vs. Alpha Liam Neeson The scene that struck me is when wife excoriates Robert MacGregor about essentially fighting a unwinnable battle, but later states to the lordship, although MacGregor is difficult, he has her trust. Secondly, We Were Soldiers The morning of deployment, Gibson leaves quietly, long gone before his wife awakens. She realizes he’s gone…and runs panicked into the street in her nightie for the potentially last goodbye. Oh… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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@Rollo Love it. Of course you already addressed that on Dalrok, Quickdraw. (Jesus, man, don’t make me have to also chase your comments on his site too). Reaffirming why this is the only RP site I have the time to read (which is a good thing). And here I laugh every time you bust on a new reader to use the Search button before you blitz them with TRM posts on shit you covered five years ago. (And I still will.) You are the Ken Jennings of the manosphere, sir. In the meantime, I shall continue to blame my faulty… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Oh, yeah, one more observation on Emma Watson: she’s 26. We can check back with her on feminism and stuff in about, ehhh, 3 years.

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