Trophies

trophy

Hypergamy is seen 90+% in men while “upgrading” their wives; and only <10% in women for “upgrading” their men. Yet it gets called out disproportionately as a thing women do… Geese and ganders. Geese and ganders.

I got this comment on Hypergamy Doesn’t Care a little while ago. It’s about what I’ve come to expect from women who find revealing the secret of hypergamy offensive. These of course are the women who’s sexual strategy relies on men’s unawareness about hypergamy in order to consolidate on long-term security, but I find it entertaining that when a Man exposes that truth there is a ready social convention to shame him with, rather than the prideful embrace of an ’empowered’ woman revealing exactly the same truth.

What commenter CV’s proffering here is the Trophy Wives convention. A lot has been made of this recently and it’s brought to my attention that this is a feminine operative social convention that I haven’t covered as of yet.

There was a time when this social convention was a very functional shaming device for women. Right around the mid 1980’s to the late 1990’s the notion of men becoming bored with their wives and “upgrading” them for a newer (younger, hotter) model was a very popular trope. There were romantic comedies based on the convention as well as an underlying presumption that men would just be biologically predisposed to this upgrading.

In the popular media, movies and sit-coms of the period, we could tell the measure of a man’s character by the way he would or would not fall to the temptation to ditch his ubiquitously loving and devoted, but SMV declined, wife in favor of a hot young (usually mid 20s) woman who was stereotypically vapid, immature and shallow. It was fun to ridicule (and pathologize) men’s sexual response while fostering an endearing sympathy for the poor, unjustly served wives who, through no fault of their own, fell victim to so many men’s base urges to wantonly discard her for a hotter, tighter blonde with fake tits.

Naturally the caricature wouldn’t be complete without accounting for a Trophy Wife’s character – always vapid, usually gold digging, and uniquely incapable of relating to him on the same level of intellectual and emotional maturity his discarded wife had so selflessly devoted herself to.

To further the mythology this want for a young ‘Chippy’ was almost always paired with the ‘infantile and ego-bruised’ man’s mid-life crisis, selfishly attempting to recapture his youth in a sports car and a new ‘bimbo’ wife.

This was an effective convention then because it played on women’s fear of the Wall and built upon their, feminine-as-correct, moral / intellectual superiority of men, who could only be counted on to reason with their penises rather than consider the relational equity women would necessarily invest into a marriage with only the best of intentions. In a sense it was the female flip side of the Relational Equity fallacy found predominantly in men today.

As with most of its social conventions, the Feminine Imperative got a lot of milage out of the Trophy Wife fear – not the least of which was due to the perception of men’s more prominent role as financial providers. But with time and a new global degree of connectivity this trope is no longer as tenable as it was.

Dead Conventions

From about the turn of the millennia, the concept of “Trophy Wives” has been a dead feminine social convention.

Whereas most long held feminine social conventions can be socially rejiggered to accommodate new circumstances or even directly proven contradiction as time and society progresses, the Trophy Wife canard simply doesn’t hold water the way it used to. In fact, for men aware enough of it, it’s really a cruel reminder of its original intent now.

You see, when it’s statistically 70+% women initiating divorce, detonating marriages because of an Eat Pray Love script and a “I coulda done better than this Beta” commercialization effort of women’s innate hypergamy, it’s kind of hard to float the male-shame of “men divorce their wives because they want a newer model” trope. At present, there’s enough connectivity and enough shared male experience, even from the female side, to make the Trophy Wives convention an embarrassing holdover from when it was useful.

Oh I still get it occasionally in my comment sections, but now it’s just the “ooh ooh men do it too” script that falls flat, and I think even the hard-sell women are realizing this with such readily available divorce stats online now.

The Trophy Wife convention worked in stupid 80′s movies plots as a vehicle to infantilize men’s commitment to women’s long-term security, but when Stella heads off to Jamaica to ‘get her groove on’ it’s called female empowerment.

Trophy Wife may not be a functional convention anymore, but it’s certainly a good illustration of the Feminine Imperative at work.

Smoking Guns

About a month ago Dalrock did some yeoman’s work in comparing divorce statistics with women’s rate of remarriage. From the Smoking Gun:

I’ve focused on the stats for women because it is women who are driving the divorce rates.  As you can see, divorce rates track very closely with women’s opportunity to remarry.  Note also that the old canard that as women age their desire to be married goes away;  if this were true the divorce curve would slope upward, not downward.

Rather than lift Dal’s charts I’ll refer readers to have a look at his original post. For the purposes of comparing these stats to the old model of the Trophy Wives convention, it’s fairly obvious that the actual trend was never a mythology of discontented men jettisoning their wives for younger ones, but rather common, average women discontent in their hypergamous “Assortive Mating” detonating their marriages for the promises of a guaranteed security and a second chance at optimizing hypergamy “before their looks run out.”

From a legal and social perspective, a feminine-primary society has undeniably made the cash & prizes incentive for women to Cash Out of their marriage a realizable and socially acceptable option.

I may ruffle some feathers with this proposition, but I can’t ignore the prospect that, for some women, this ‘detonation’ may have been part of, or became, their long-term security strategy once she’d ‘settled’ on her post-Wall Beta male provider. Even for women with whom this wasn’t a conscious plan the failsafe of post-divorce social and financial support represents is always present.

Whereas the Trophy Wife convention primarily revolved around elite men with the capacity, status and affluence (if not the intent) to discard their wives depended on suppressing the Apex Fallacy (only men of extraordinary means could entertain it), for women the Eat Pray Love schema can be realized by virtually any western woman – and statistically we see this played out in reality.

High profile men, who took up with a stereotypical Trophy Wife are statistically insignificant compared to women’s divorcing their Beta providers, assured of his support in the long term, and either return to their ‘party years’ model of short term fulfillment, or take up with another provider. The old male-shame Trophy Wife social convention has been replaced by a feminine-primary, feminine acceptable, form of hypergamous optimization.

Assortive Mates

This reality is a fairly ugly one to confront for women and a feminine based society at large. For the most part Beta men are more prone to get along than make waves in a marriage or LTR. So conditioned and prepared for this self-sacrificial monogamy and support, few will consider women’s sexual strategies, much less question their sincerity of their reasoning for wanting out of their marriages later.

Still, that ugly truth is becoming increasingly more unavoidable as men share their experiences with each other. What to do?

As I mentioned there’s a lot of talk about debunking the old Trophy Wives convention. I imagine my readership is already aware of a recent “study” ‘proving’ that men and women tend to pair off according to like interests and attraction – rather than the notion that women would in any way be opportunists and motivated by hypergamy:

Here’s some bad news for men with highly successful careers and fat wallets: You probably will not end up with a “trophy wife,” a new study suggests.

When researchers compared qualities such as level of attractiveness and socioeconomic status within couples, they found almost no evidence of the trophy wife stereotype, which suggests attractive, young women tend to marry rich and successful men.

Instead, couples are far more likely to end up together because they share similar traits. For example, attractive, wealthy or highly educated people are more likely to choose a partner with the same qualities. The same is true for less attractive, low-earning or less educated people. Trophy wife marriages still happen, but not nearly as often as expected, the study revealed.

Obsidian over at JustFourGuys has done an admirable job of picking this study apart. Needless to say the study begins from a point of error, relying on a sample group of early 20s couples to determine the overall social “trend” of assortive mating. Commenter John Albertsen makes the old model Trophy Wife observation:

Trophy wives are, according to the generally accepted definition, not only attractive, but considerably younger than their husbands. Limiting the study to “couples in their twenties”,eliminated the older guys with younger wives, as the difference in the ages of the pair would be a maximum of 9 years. Further, very few highly successful men reach those heights by 29 and of those that do, how many would be married at all?

The sample used in this study seems to eliminate the very people who would need to be included to accomplish it’s stated goal. Studying married couples in their 50s would be just as invalid as it would still not include a fitting age difference.

It would be better to study couples where the MEN were in their 50s to see how their attractiveness and financial success compared to the age and attractiveness of their wives. I suspect that you will find very few such ‘elderly’ gents paired up with young cuties unless they were loaded. In other words, what the young women find attractive about the guy is what’s in his wallet.

After considering this, an astute Red Pill Man needs to question the true underlying motive, not just for the study itself, but the reason for it being popularly reposted and relinked in a feminine-primary cultural bubble.

In western society it’s a statistical rarity for early 20s men and women to be married (or seriously monogamous enough to consider it) at all. Feminine-primary culture can’t seem to make up its mind; why would men need to Man-Up, stop being ‘kidults’ and accept mature marriage responsibilities at 29 if so many early 20s men (like those in the study) are pairing with their equalist approved fiancés?

Any number of studies and polls empirically show that women not only want their husbands to be older (5-7 years), but also wish to marry at or around 28-30 years of age. Furthermore, there’s no shortage of articles and blog posts relating how women are postponing marriage to pursue professional goals or are frustrated in being forced to ‘settle’ for monogamy with men they consider beneath their status, financial and educational levels later and later in life.

What the McClintock study was trying to prove had nothing to do with Trophy Wives, but rather the intent was to disprove and distract from the realities of feminine hypergamy – while conveniently shaming older men that feminine-primary culture largely still believe harbor plans to marry younger women once they consolidate their fortunes.

The intent isn’t to disprove the Trophy Wives social convention (created by the same influence attempting to disprove it), but rather to prove that women aren’t actually the opportunists an innate hypergamy would have them, by necessity, be. The intent is to distract men’s increasing awareness of women’s opportunistic, strategic sexual pluralism.

As I illustrated last week:

…hypergamy does not seek it’s own level. An ever pragmatic evolution drives hypergamy to seek a better-than-equal pairing. This is the evolutionary jackpot: to combine and send one’s genes into future generations with a (at least perceptually) better than equitable genetic match – and ensure one’s progeny with a better than SMV equitable provisioning.

Assortive mating (Alpha Fucks) is not the same as Assortive pairing (Beta Bucks). The conflicting sides of feminine hypergamy ensures that the prerequisites of satisfying both are met with different qualifiers. McClintock’s efforts here (besides her own professional aggrandizement) are yet one more attempt to sweep the unpalatable truth of hypergamy under a rug she’d rather men not have the curiosity to look under. This is simply an obvious effort in keeping hypergamy a secret, and to inspire men to shame for even being curious about it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] Trophies […]

donalgraeme
Guest

Something that keeps coming up when hypergamy is discussed is the female drive to keep it a secret. I’m curious Rollo, do you think that the female penchant for deception, especially regarding matters of female sexuality, is a trait that was “evolutionarily selected for?” That is, women who were more deceptive about their sexuality were more likely to pass on their genes? [Presumably because they were more likely to pull off satisfying their hypergasmic impulses?]

LiveFearless
Guest

to inspire men to shame And then there are the examples of how a man should be in shame. The host is paid $20 million per year for one radio show. Why? There are too many legitimate reasons to name here, but I assure you, he IS super talented. Part of his work is to have empathy with women because men have made mistakes. His musician guest has made a whole album dedicated to one woman because of his mistakes. At least, that’s how the story has played in the media. Never underestimate the power of popular music and the… Read more »

Beauty Is Truth
Guest
Beauty Is Truth

I know this is a bit off topic but I’ve long recognized that beauty is a universal truth. This applies to not only females, but to males as well. It’s male hamster talk to think otherwise. I remember looking at some girl’s profile after sharing the Jeremy Meeks photo and her friends were going absolutely crazy for this guy. Some exclaimed how wet and horny they got for him and I even saw a comment that read: “damn, i wouldn’t complain if he raped me!” That chick had 13 likes at the time. There was also a girl in my… Read more »

Zelcorpion
Guest
Zelcorpion

Ah – the supposed huge segment of the population with trophy wives that are discarded like the next best car. While it is true that you see more beautiful women among the truly wealthy, it is anything but clear-cut as I met a lot of rich men married with not overly attractive women – married for decades at that! I estimate that the real number of “up-trading” successful men is not really very high. Usually I saw it with men, who got rich during marriage. Those relationships have been bombed more by women, as the women find that they can… Read more »

Bourdonne (@Bourdonne)
Guest

I have a question about the mechanism behind the changes in women’s attitude. It seems logical that with the decreasing need for women to find a man’s provision and protection, they forego the tendency to pair up with a beta male (or leave him as soon as he’s served his purpose) and instead follow the impuls to go after alpha males for the best genes. In millions of years, women have evolutionairy developed strategies (hidden ovulation, hormonal changes throughout the menstrual cycle, sperm flow back) to find a balance between AF/BB and thereby to optimize the chances of their offspring… Read more »

Mark Minter
Guest

I saw this comment on the RooshNMe women’s blog on his post about the soft wall from Ella the Squirrel: “Is it me or are these guys unhealthily obsessed with having a butchered evopsych+darwinian view of human connection and humanity? Seems so… miserable 🙁 Honestly, if I actually bought into the manospherian view of things (which I don’t) I’d just opt out and go celibate and single forever.” …. And I have been contemplating this for a couple of days. How the impact of Red Pill can preclude you from having a “happy” relationship. I went back and checked to… Read more »

BC
Guest
BC

@Mark Minter: A+ comment

While I think the 1985 trophy husband demographic is overstated, I also subscribe to the idea that one should be cautions in attributing to culture that which can be adequately explained by economics.

“Follow the money” is generally the safe bet.

BlackPoisonSoul
Guest

@MM – very interesting, that. I would say that your assessment is bang on the money. Yes women are now free to pursue the sexy motherfucker man, given their needs are covered. Once they no longer get attention from the sexy motherfucker they will settle because they’re forced to – and they seethe with resentment for their “man” who doesn’t measure up. I’m going to step aside from the concept of Hypergamy, because it can be reduced to even simpler terms: Game Theory. What we have here is the Tragedy of the Commons writ society-wide. In a nutshell for those… Read more »

vinay3543
Guest

To clarify: the reality is for a woman to seek an older man and a man to locate a younger woman. Obvious, but some women, and men, choose to ignore it. This of course only further compounds with inclinations, habits, trends and numbers as both genders grow older. There are only occasional exceptions where the female inverse applies to reality in the sexual market. Needless to say, a woman’s physical attractiveness level dictates this, to an extent, luxury. But time takes over, and before she knows it she is going through the process that nearly all women were going through… Read more »

titanic
Guest

Speaking of social conventions women use to support the FI, when each of my 3 children were babies I would constantly get told how much they looked like me … by women, always by women. I can’t remember a single time a man made that comment. You might naively explain that disparity away by saying, “Oh, women just love looking at, and talking about babies more than men.” But even then, (pre red pill) I had a sense that women collectively, unconsciously, feel a responsibility to make sure cuckolded fathers never doubt their paternity. By the way, they do look… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Donal:

“That is, women who were more deceptive about their sexuality were more likely to pass on their genes?”

Women more deceptive about their sexuality were more likely to succeed in securing a higher status mate and thereby more likely to pass on their genes.

[Presumably because they were more likely to pull off satisfying their hypergasmic impulses?]

“Hypergasmic”. I lulzed at that one. Good one.

deti
Guest
deti

titanic:

Get them tested. If nothing else, the results will get you to the truth and to peace of mind.

jf12
Guest
jf12

“the Trophy Wife convention primarily revolved around elite men”

This is all there ever was to it. CV’s comment reeks of the apex fallacy. “90+% of [the elite] men” etc.

Mazrim
Guest
Mazrim

4 random red-pill thoughts/observations I’ve had in the last wk that I’ve wanted to toss out there: 1-I personally think Donald Sterling is the very definition of a “white knight” 2-I’ve never seen nor even liked the concept of the Twilight movies, because it’s the feminization of vampires & werewolves. They spent 4 movies debating whether bitch wanted vampire or werewolf dick 3-The new Daniel Craig bond movies are the feminization of James Bond. He now falls is love and respects women. Bullshit 4-My brother was mentioning how Obama is beholden to the lgbt movement. I pose this ?-isn’t a… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

Donal’s question is answered in the affirmative through biology and behavior. Hidden ovulation, and the fact that women do not know what they want.

Tilikum
Guest

“Assortive mating (Alpha Fucks) is not the same as Assortive pairing (Beta Bucks).”

so much truth in that statement. choice is truly the civilization killer

paulo
Guest
paulo

I swapped my wife, and two adult children who had left home, for a “trophy wife” many years younger than me. I deflowered her and taught her how to give me great sex, which she regularly does. I have no big pile of money but I do have high status, and it was that which she found attractive. A high status male, not money per se, is the primal sexual attractor for women. The reason women sub-conciously go for confident men is because the confidence is a proxy for social status, and primally they want the leader of the pack.… Read more »

Beauty Is Truth
Guest
Beauty Is Truth

“Hidden ovulation, and the fact that women do not know what they want.” @ jf12 I remember reading the book, “Woman’s Infidelity” and the author said something along the lines of, “Women do know what they want. It’s just that up until recently, they haven’t had a chance to experience it.” Even though the author is a woman, she’s surprisingly red pill even if she doesn’t know it. She mentions the importance of physicality, even that of the penis, but the man she’s talking to (the book uses a Socratic Dialogue) is having none of it and refuses to believe.… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

Even among the elites, very very very few high-profile men that I know of, and I know many, and you know of many too, have trophy wives. Almost all of the movers and shakers want a *stable* homelife where they can relax and kick back. They want their wives to bring them a sammich and cold one, NOT to have to take her out to show her off. The Trophy Wife trope may have been primarily wishful thinking and projection on women’s part, not just for male-shaming. Women were encouraged to think of themselves as potential trophy wives, not for… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

@BiT, most women do not know when they are horny, even. They need instruction, and you’ll see a little flashbulb “Oh! That’s why …”

It’s a combination of lack of libido and incuriousness. A fine statistical summary is that most women seldom if ever masturbate to orgasm, like less than once a month like sexless marriages. A recent news article, something about a mirror on the floor in a public booth or something, told about many women seeing their vaginas at like age 40 for the very first time, and nobody was surprised that so many women had never bothered.

orion
Guest
orion

@ Mark Minter It is not probably not true that those “sexy” traits are not fitness indicators. The peacocks tail for example must be carried around all year and the bird must be healthy or else he will not have a “sexy” tail. Amothz Zakavi calls it the handicap principle, the signal must be costly for then it is honest. The same is probably true for stotting, where gazelles deliberately slow down and spring up high in the air just because, while a predator is pursuing them. What they are doing is bragging, they risk their lifes to be noticed.… Read more »

cryo
Guest
cryo

Apropos of nothing in particular, I believe that your average post-Wall carousel rider would rather eke out the remainder of her sexual relevance getting fucked and chucked by alphas then submit to marriage to a beta. They really do hate betas that much. The Wall is real but so are thirsty THIRSTY men. There are so many Alpha proxies to enable women’s sexual strategy in our modern nightmare world that the beta male is bordering on irrelevant.

jf12
Guest
jf12

Recent research has converged on the conventional wisdom: comfort and trust kill sex, but fear and chaos promote sex.
http://www.the-scientist.com//?articles.view/articleNo/40333/title/The-Sex-Paradox/

Mark Minter
Guest

@orion. I tend to agree with you. I learn towards the idea of”good genes”, male traits as indicators of immunoproficiency and thus the whole testosterone thing I rant about. Human female preference observably prefers those male traits and behaviors, muscles, arrogance, “assholiness”, that are consistent with high testosterone. But there is this whole Fisherian school of thought that says “She chooses sexy for the sole reason that to not do so condemns her offspring to not be chosen because all of the other females are choosing sexy.” When Darwin was asked “Why?”, he more or less replied, “Because I said… Read more »

Tilikum
Guest

@ Mark

“the female preference for aesthetics when male utility is low or nonexistent”

observable in the 90’s and 2000’s, in the last 4 years this is rapidly changing on the ground in my observation.

jacklabear
Guest
jacklabear

Tilikum, tell us more about your observations.

There may be hope for my beta ass yet!
Actually, my ambition in life is to be a gigolo. I’ve made good progress in the gym the last 5 years. Except at my age the only underwear modeling gig I’m likely to get is for Depends. Wrinkle game.

heyjay
Guest
heyjay

Tilikum:

The pendulum always swings both ways. As soon as the western “daddy” states can’t keep up with providing due to some sort of crisis this pattern of female choice will inevitably change.
It’s not like the female always chooses the sexy guy, I think it’s more complex and depends on the state of the environment.

Jokanaan
Guest
Jokanaan

@Mazrim

Actually, Bond (played by George Lazenby) fell in love AND got married in On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (1968). Same as the original novel.

Fred Flange, how drugnk I amm
Guest
Fred Flange, how drugnk I amm

Small refinement. The “Trophy Wife” is now no longer a thing but for a brief time it was, during the 60’s – 70’s – 80’s initial divorce boom, when everyone headed for the exits. Some higher-finance alpha men did throw over their wives for younger chippies. A handful of public examples established the meme: Mike Love of the Beach Boys (at least 7 times!), Donald Trump throwing over Ivana, some sports figures marrying their mistresses to maintain what was thought to be the necessary “family” image. For a time the Trophy Wife was real enough to figure prominently in two… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

The single biggest problem with the handicap theory is its ubiquitous Goldilockness. Why aren’t the most attractive males the MOST handicapped, a reasonable person could ask? Well, says the theory, obviously it’s because being only a little bit handicapped is more attractive… In contrast, the single biggest problem with the good genes theory is its ubiquitous pedestalization of female choices, as if they can actually sniff out who will have better children. It has never been experimentally demonstrated that females choose the males who could have the most children. Almost all non-Fisherian explanations are post hoc. It seems to me… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

The trophy husband is the healthy wealthy and wise provider beta who is handicapped by his betaness but not too handicapped.

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

I think Fred Flange has something to it – once it became more than acceptable to divorce, lots of men and women in mismatch marriages got divorced. Imagine the 50s or 60s high school alpha. He seduces a few girls, mostly with lower SMV than him (those with similar SMV hold out for at least an engagement), and accidentally knocks one up. They get married, they raise the kids. It’s now 1980-something, the kids are grown up, and high-school alpha realizes he’s still got it, and his wife really doesn’t. So he pulls the plug on the marriage, and starts… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12

@Anthony re: “(Especially if he’s somebody in the corporate world – it’s ok to bring a trophy wife to corporate functions, but not a girlfriend, in the ’80s.)”

It was more ok then than now, for “somebodies” to have girlfriends openly and be all blatant and non-politically correct about it. I was there.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

“Both sexes, if the females as well as the males were permitted to exert any choice, would choose their partners not for mental charms, or property, or social position, but almost solely from external appearance.”

I believe that completely

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

Of all the ‘upgrading’ I’ve witnessed (admittedly not very frequent) its always been an established beta bucks guy that was seduced by a carouseler approaching the wall. From what I witnessed it wasn’t ‘upgrading’ that I saw but deliberate and calculated mate stealing by another female. Attributing blame to males for female intrasexual competition anxiety is a common theme. Rather than directly engage in female on female conflict they’ll use males as a proxy. Upgrading = mate stealing Wage gap = material status competition Rape culture = alleviating slut status Creepy men = sexual status signaling competition Male immaturity (Peter… Read more »

M3
Guest

I’ve written about this in the past. It’s pretty much a myth about men trading up.. it’s a myth created by the ability of those in the public eye (super alpha’s like Clooney and media moguls) who can trade up without much penalty (well, they get killed in divorce settlements but they seem to not care because they do it again and again and again.. maybe they’re just stupid?) Point is, we all want to trade up when the SMV isn’t matched or even. Most men will remain faithful, true and loyal to their SMV equal or greater, and will… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

“super alpha’s like Clooney …”

That meme needs to fade away. Clooney sucks. Look at his wife!

Clooney = right place right time. Just like Obama

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[…] Trophies (The Rational Male) […]

Fred Flange, how drugnk I amm
Guest
Fred Flange, how drugnk I amm

@jf12: By the mid-80’s what you saw comports with what I saw (and see) too. Just sayin’: during the 70’s in particular, there seemed to be a lingering convention that the niceties be observed, and it was thought the blondie on Mr. Alpha’s arm should be something more than the ONS du jour. Later on, as you note, nobody cared whether blondie was Mrs., Ms., or Escort Service. Everyone was too coked up by then to notice, I guess.

Joe Blow
Guest
Joe Blow

I see a lot of trophy wives, so-called, living in D.C. There are three basic varieties that are most common. All start with high achieving men who are at least contextually alpha. The first kind is the Power Couple Trophy Wife. These aren’t so trophy like, but they are often attractive enough, with both having high power jobs and similar elite backgrounds. A wife who is okay looking and on chatting terms with the White House Chief of Staff is worth knowing, right? She is usually a little younger than him. She screams “difficult.” They farm out their kids, if… Read more »

jacklabear
Guest
jacklabear

So no one is going to discuss the observation that women are increasingly going for betas? Tilikum? Government bureaucratic jobs (largely for women) have greatly increased since 2007. Other handouts like food stamps, WIC, increasing minimum wage (mostly single moms), disability and healthcare are also up. So it’s not like women are running out of economic handouts. I hear that women are increasingly pushing back on feminism advocating traditional roles for women. Maybe they are starting to realize that SAHM is better than sitting in a cube farm all day? Unfortunately for them, laws have been put in place that… Read more »

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Couple thoughts, From this piece: “Whereas the Trophy Wife convention primarily revolved around elite men with the capacity, status and affluence (if not the intent) to discard their wives depended on suppressing the Apex Fallacy (only men of extraordinary means could entertain it), for women the Eat Pray Love schema can be realized by virtually any western woman – and statistically we see this played out in reality.” Whether or not that Apex Fallacy had any truth to it in an earlier generation, the starkest and most inarguable of differences here is in the cultural messaging between the ‘awful’ former… Read more »

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Yup, here we go again:

“Today (July 2), Jewel announced her separation from (her husband) World-Champion rodeo cowboy, Ty Murray, citing the need for “growth” that became “undeniably stifled as a couple.””

Cris
Guest

Some men will have a hard time leaving their wives because they are way too brainwashed. Even if their life depended on it, they probably couldn’t do it anyway. It’s kinda sad, by the way.

jf12
Guest
jf12

@SteveH re: Jewel.

There are a LOT more facebook pictures and stories about Ty being Such ! A ! Great ! Dad ! than her being such a great mom, and in contrast a LOT of stories about her not being such a great mom.
http://www.swedenwithlove.com/2013/05/jewel-spreads-her-wings/
I don’t think it matters that the stories were from her; he’ll win any custody battle if he wants to.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

Life has become to easy for women, daycare, dishwasher, washer + dryer, ready made meals, order out, delivery, microwave, etc.
They have nothing to do.
Except shop and bitch

Beauty Is Truth
Guest
Beauty Is Truth

“To Tilikum’s point, I think the situation on the ground is changing. It’s becoming less about external appearance (though that is still hugely important) than it is about pre-selection. The competition among women is fiercer than ever in recent years. Pre-selection is everything, and from what I see personally – this drives (prospective) mate preference to a huge degree more than mere aesthetics alone. This is why cultivating charisma and social acumen is so fundamental, now moreso than ever. Chalk it up to an increasingly ultra-competitive societal race-to-the-bottom, I suppose.” Wrong. External appearance has always been the number one criteria… Read more »

Savage SMP
Guest
Savage SMP

@Beauty Is Truth

You might want to add a new online form of dating. Have a look at 3nder. A Tinder for threesomes:
https://www.facebook.com/3nderapp

Look’s like the cuckold rate will go higher.

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Elliot Rodger had an attractive external appearance. A ‘pleasing aesthetic’, if you will. And most people are not hooking up via Tinder. It is a very visible but marginal microcosm of the current dating/mating zeitgeist. I know a couple good-looking dudes who have gotten interest on Tinder, one even got a pussy pic from some desperate older single mom, but no fucks have been notched by either of them. Culture-trend appearances can be deceiving.

Will
Guest
Will

I think this might be one of the better comment threads in the manosphere. Everything is dead on. It’s ridiculous. From a big picture of it all though–Assuming the beta bucks alpha fucks theory–would people agree with these thoughts: A) If advertising beta providing to a young high smv girl pushes her attraction (read: tingles for alpha)–such as using your resources like money to take her out or do something–for you away…then DONT use your resources on her. INSTEAD it would be wise to use them on your male friends…that way it looks like you’re ‘the leader of the pack’… Read more »

heyjay
Guest
heyjay

@ Steve H:
I wonder, if you don’t mind telling me, how going the path of the least resistance has worked for you so far. What are your objectives? Can you really pull with this or are you just jaded like myself?
I’d appreciate your answer!

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

Is it a coincidence that this meme was perpetuated while women’s divorce rates were skyrocketing? I say it was a great way to distract from what was going on in society. When my erstwhile wife moved on in the early 90s, I had no idea that there was the tsunami of women initiated divorces going on. Even today, it’s not talked about in society as an “issue”. Apparently destroying the traditional family in 50 years is just not that big a deal… But today, women don’t need the cover. Men are so cowed that we are reduced to complaining about… Read more »

Softek
Guest
Softek

Facial attractiveness is very important. Very, very important. We have much more control over this than we think, and people need to know about this and start raising their kids equipped with this knowledge. It will make an absolutely tremendous difference. Dr. Mew. Orthotropics. Buteyko Meets Dr. Mew is a good book that talks about facial attractiveness and how to develop an attractive face by practicing proper oral posture. I’m going to keep mentioning this periodically because people need to be aware of it. As for us adults, I still think proper oral posture can help, and I’ve actually noticed… Read more »

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

@ Softek – One point. Do you not see everything you are doing or suggesting others do as “qualifying”?

jf12
Guest
jf12

@Glenn, I agree. When I got divorced (yes, as passively as the verb form. I didn’t divorce; I got divorced upon.) in 1980 at the peak of the divorce rate, I had no idea women were driving 65% of them (the phrase power into ground, with women as the pilots, is appropriate).

BTW I could not find a male lawyer who would bother with divorces even back then. At the first and only hearing/sentencing, I was the only male in the courtroom.

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

@ if12 – I don’t think most people deal with the most important consequence of all of this: The destruction of the nuclear family as the basic social organizing unit of society, and the removal from the family of masculine role models and the natural authority fathers always held in the past. This alone is wreaking havoc across society. Just think about family size. What single mother is going to have 3 kids – ya have to have more than two on average to replace the parents, yes? Divorce disrupts having kids too, I wanted 3-4 but after my ex… Read more »

cryo
Guest
cryo

@Glenn

Exactly right. Everybody wants to join the party and get their piece of the action now (this includes manosphere, PUA, etc) but nobody is willing to face the impending societal collapse. Without families, there is no civilization, simple as. I guess we just keep our eyes wide shut and take solace in banging sluts.

Muttley
Guest
Muttley

Hi Rollo,
Still very much appreciating your work. Since you posted the Jeremy Meeks link above, I though you might find this interesting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2677286/British-mother-abandons-three-children-marry-violent-prisoner-met-online-impressed-honesty.html

Softek
Guest
Softek

@ Glenn Health and nutrition have been passions of mine for years and this stuff extends far beyond qualifying. To be fair, I didn’t mention anything about that in my post. George Caitlin wrote about facial structure back in the 1800’s during his studies of native tribes. He was already aware back then that modern habits were interfering with our health. Proper facial development is more attractive because it actually is physically healthier. We are biologically designed to breathe and swallow in certain ways and when we do it properly, our airways are more open and our general health is… Read more »

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

From comment thread on Black Dragon’s latest post: “Even though the right wing has been increasingly powerless since the end of WWII, I think people tend to hate tradcons and Dalrock style Christians because of (1) the individual tragedies they play a role in and (2) also the way they would like to force their natural socio-sexual inclinations on others who have no such inclinations. Point 1 happens when Tradcons try to convince men to live 1950s style American monogamy and the results of such attempts at hard monogamous living transpire. Tradcons claim this was the way it always was… Read more »

cryo
Guest
cryo

@Steve H

I don’t disagree. There is nothing that can be done. Simply convincing a few betas to marry a whore and start a family is not going to change anything. We are already fucked, I was just making an observation that it is the destruction of the family that will seal the deal.

Humanity: doomed to destroy itself.

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

@ Softek – I tried the kinder gentler approach this time, glad it got through and you show some real class in the acknowledging of it. This is something women never do, right? All I can say is that one day the lens just flipped from me evaluating whether I was good enough for a women to just looking for those I find attractive and seeing if there is interest. I approach if I can, fire a round or two and advance or retreat. But their weird looks or whatever weird vibe doesn’t really even enter in any more. I… Read more »

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

@ cryo – Right on. Try this on. Our modern world is laced with the legacy of older times where man was always searching for deeper meaning. Mysticism, religion, and now a humanist philosophy, which I find substitutes politics for religion as dogma, all seem to be desperate to give us that something extra about life that we seem to crave, yes? Romantic love and monogamy is like that too in that they are that ‘special’ something that is all important in life. I bought into that for a long time, and than I asked myself, honestly, did I believe… Read more »

John Connor
Guest
John Connor

Thanks to rollo future generations of wise men hold onto their dolo. My crews wallets never low. Hoes quick to blow. mgtows up in your area with the sickest flow. Had game since birth but you just now know or yet discovering. My black and white ancestors steady hovering.

Bluepillprofessor
Guest
Bluepillprofessor

So the trophy wife fad was a head fake to take away attention from the fact there was a tsunami of female initiated I’mm not haaapppy divorces. I wonder how many other head fakes and seemingly deliberate misdirections we can identify? The most obvious is “Rape” culture which is clearly false and a misdirection to hide their AF/BB strategy and help secure their Beta Bucks with minimal sexual effort. Alphas know what they want and go get it but Betas (who do the EXACT same thing) are ‘rapey.’ Yuck, stop it right now little boy and go buy me something.… Read more »

M3
Guest

Not really relevant to the post, but really, you just cannot make shit like this up.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2014/07/20140703-071434.html

Softek
Guest
Softek

@ Glenn One of the reasons I’m a little more levelheaded now is I got LJBF’d by my one-itis a few days ago. That was really the kick in the ass I needed. This is the best part, and I shit you not: a while after turning me down she posts a picture of herself on a CAROUSEL. A fucking carousel. You can’t write shit like this. Just took my entire blue pill fantasy and shattered it into a million pieces and then stabbed me with them. Now all I can think of is that she’s a two timing self… Read more »

Richard
Guest
Richard

The main reason the man goes after the hot young wife is because the old wife, who is the perfect age to be a rip roaring whore in the bedroom, has decided to treat sex as if it’s only for young people. If wives stopped attaching emotional qualifiers to sex, and understood it as nothing more than a friendly back rub, and learned to fuck their husbands like porn stars…. especially 40+ when let’s face it marriage can sink into a mundane tedium…. The divorce rates would plummet I’d replace the family court with a bondage dungeon and a couple… Read more »

Glenn
Guest
Glenn

@ Softek – Men, dogs – we’ve got a lot in common. Loyal, protective, fierce when necessary, and both will try to fuck an available bitch given half a chance… Ouch on the LJBF. 10 years, wow. I get it, you were in DEEP. So now you know – their is no way to negotiate or “earn” desire. To me, that is the core lesson of “friend zoning”. Even more to the point, think about what is going on with you trying to win her over for all this time. You were qualifying with her endlessly. Remember, the point of… Read more »

Retrenched
Guest
Retrenched

@ Glenn

Is it a coincidence that this meme was perpetuated while women’s divorce rates were skyrocketing? I say it was a great way to distract from what was going on in society.

Similarly, we hear a lot about ‘Shallow Hal’ type men, when it’s women who regard 80-90% of the opposite sex as ‘below average’ and beneath them.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

So the trophy wife fad was a head fake to take away attention from the fact there was a tsunami of female initiated I’mm not haaapppy divorces. Nope. There was no “trophy wife” fad. It didn’t exist. See the data at Dalrock’s – it’s not there. What was there? Female in-group preference and apex fallacy. If one upper middle class senior partner in a law firm gets a divorce from his wife and marries his secretary, then so far as women are concerned he’s “everyman”. Because women can’t see men below a certain ranking in the SMP, period. What was… Read more »

rastov
Guest

Hypergamy is not working in non-western societies, right? For example, in arabic countries, women dont choose their husband, their father chooses the husband, according to the rules defined by tribalism. In addition, hypergamy doesnt have a long time history in the western societies, either. Only after first world war, and women have become more intependent, hypergamy rules came to existance. Before that, women didnt have a right to vote even for the government, choosing the husband was impossible, unlike shown in medieval Hollywood movies.

Louise
Guest
Louise

it’s an exaggeration to say that women couldn’t choose their husbands before WW1. they certainly did have choice, even if somewhat more limited. upper and upper middle class women were usually chaperoned, but they met suitable men at parties, balls, etc, and they would choose from among those men. lower class women, who were usually out at work, might have more or less choice depending on their circumstances (women in domestic service for instance had limited opportunities to meet men, they might only have one afternoon a week off). Hypergamy certainly did exist, look at the fierce competition for the… Read more »

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