Please, Breakup with Me!

Separation

The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much as I’d like to brag about having a previous essay for any occasion, I realized I hadn’t really covered this situation. Well, not in any great depth anyway,…

Bit of background: my girlfriend and I are both working people with solid jobs. Mine involves working partly in a lab a fair distance away from where we live, and I am gone for about 2 weeks a month. We have been together 5 years, and things have always been awesome between us. No major fights to speak of.

The incident happened last Saturday night. I was due to return the following Monday, and my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

Saturday was a typically busy day for me, and I was really tired and went to sleep early that night, as I had to get up early to get back to work. Get back to work Sunday, not checking my phone as I was running late, and noticed lots of messages and voicemails waiting for me when I got to the lab. All from my GF: in all the voicemails, she was in tears, and told me that she’d been out dancing in a club and that she’d been fairly tipsy, but not really drunk.

Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back. I don’t know how long, or any details, but she said she realized what she’d done and returned home as soon as possible, where she started calling and texting me.

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her – I guess I have to give her time, but honestly, I’m barely holding on looking at her in her state. I bear no ill will towards her, I just think she made a mistake in the heat of the moment. I’m completely lost. I don’t know how I can convince her that I can move past this, and that I still love her. Even I have been near tears at times these past few days. I need a place to vent, I don’t have many people I can talk to, and I need to write down my thoughts.

TL;DR: GF made out with someone in a bar while I was out of town and is an absolute wreck right now, even though I think I can move past it and work at getting everything back on track. I’m lost and don’t know how to convince her. I don’t know what she is thinking and I’m barely holding on.

Now, a bit later he gives this thread a status update.

UPDATE: I left her a note yesterday night in the kitchen, saying some things, we can work past this, etc. etc. She left a note at the same place I had. There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

The TRP subredd commenters have pretty much covered the majority of what I would point out. We’re dealing with an abject Beta here who, like most Blue Pill conditioned men buys into the touchy-feely ‘open communications will solve everything’ fallacy. He also feels it’s incumbent upon him to follow the ‘be the bigger man’ meme and forgive her indiscretions (at least the ones she felt guilty enough to relate to him in a text). And really, what’s to forgive anyway? It was only a kiss, right?

For a bit of context, they’re both 26, and are living together. We don’t really know much about how long they’ve been together, but if they’re roommates (always a bad idea) I’m going to guess it’s been at least a couple of years.

What this guy is experiencing is actually a very common rationalization strategy women will use when they are saddled with a man their subconscious recognizes as Beta. In The Medium is the Message I point out that there’s really no such thing as ‘mixed messages’ and that women’s behaviors will generally inform a guy as to what a woman’s real intent is. This is a basic behavioral psychology principle; behavior is the only true measure of motivation and intent. Thus, all the verbalizing of intent, verbal rationalization of purpose and ‘open communication’ simply becomes a part of the behavior which Red Pill behaviorists then parse as true intent.

Yes, this can get tedious in the beginning, and yes, it seems like a huge waste of time trying to second guess a woman’s intent, but understanding what a woman’s ‘medium’ is informing you about is a necessary step to internalizing Red Pill awareness. Once you’ve had experience in this parsing a woman’s behaviors with the behavior that is her rationalizations, it’s from this point that a Red Pill aware man can begin to predict behaviors and become more effective ‘readers’ of what a woman’s actions is somewhat reliably telling them.

In this guy’s case his girlfriend’s messaging is pretty clear to any marginally Red Pill aware man. Her behavior is born from a desire to escape the domesticity of their live-in arrangement and while she’s ‘out with the girls’ she seizes an opportunity to engage in an extra-pairing affair. Naturally, what we ‘know’ from what’s related is that she got tipsy and just kissed a guy. As you might expect, the commenters on the TRP sub jump to what predictably happened and the speculation is a lot more than just kissing.

Evo-Bio 101

However, all speculation aside, we have to make a few basic connections here. My first expectation is that she was likely in the proliferative (pre-ovulatory) phase of her menstrual cycle. I can’t be certain, but I’m sure if the guy were to be objective, he’d see the signs. Second, her behavior belies intent, and thus she seeks an extra-pair encounter and puts herself into an environment that will likely facilitate it. The kissing (assuming that’s all it was) is still a behavior that indicates she’s open to a short term breeding opportunity (Alpha Fucks) and is looking, even if just temporarily, to escape her domestic situation with her Beta live-in boyfriend.

That’s basic evo-psych/evo-bio Red Pill awareness of women’s nature. What gets interesting is when she feels compelled to relate her “infidelity” to her Beta boyfriend. The first presumption we make is that she’s felt some pangs of guilt for having betrayed his trust, but as we’ll see this is in error. We make this presumption because, like this guy does, we want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt when it comes to guilt because men and women popularly believe that women have a supernatural gift for empathy. It simply ‘sounds right’ to believe that a woman had an error in judgement whilst a little tipsy, but again we need to see this situation objectively from an evo-psych/behaviorist perspective.

When I break down this Beta guy’s rationalization process you’ll begin to see how this presumption of empathy and his Blue Pill conditioned mindset actually works against this girl, but for now we have to get a grasp of her feminine subconscious and how it reflexively interacts with the sexual imperative of Hypergamy. Most women’s confessions of extra-pair infidelity isn’t rooted in guilt. That’s not to say women don’t feel guilt or regret, it’s just to say that the functional purpose of the confession doesn’t subconsciously originate in feelings of guilt.

When women ‘cheat’, even when it’s non-sexually, their subconscious is testing the man it suspects is Beta which she’s paired with for confirmation of him being Beta. This is potentially risky, of course, but such is the prime directive of Hypergamy that if it is subconsciously suspected that a paired-with man is less that Hypergamously optimal the long term benefits of confirmation outweigh any risks. Thus, a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.

If nothing else, her confession of infidelity should be interpreted as a lack of genuine desire for a man – such a lack that it’s necessitated her behavior of engaging in genuine desire with another man. What rationalizations and verbal communications that follow from this point should be consider part of that woman’s behavioral set, and in terms of the Medium being the message, should be assessed as her medium.

So what do we see in this case?

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

he is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her…

On the surface we have the reports of this guy stating that she’s wracked with remorse and asking forgiveness. Sounds reasonable enough, right? No talking, cuddling, comfort and consolation, but wont look him in the eye, leaves early, comes back late. The guy presumes she’s broken inside and can’t forgive herself, but her behaviors imply that she’s disappointed in his reaction to just the marginal amount of information she’d related about her “infidelity”.

In his update we get this part, emphasis mine:

There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

In the post Gut Check I mention how men’s subconscious awareness subtly informs their conscious awareness by picking up on shifts in behavior, attitude and environment. Through our socialization, acculturation and Blue Pill conditioning, men are taught to suppress this natural, instinctual messaging that our gut is telling us. We do so because we fear being accused of male insecurity, jealousy and not subscribing wholesale to the equalist idea that men and women are co-equal rational agents who’ve evolved past anything like our baser natures.

Yet here, with the benefit of Red Pill awareness, we can see a perfect example of a guy suppressing what his peripheral awareness is basically screaming at him. This woman has essentially verified his Beta status by his default willingness to forgive her Alpha Fucks indiscretions with few (if any) questions asked. That test failed, she now hopes he will actually get angry enough to break up with her. Again, test failed, as all of his efforts are directed towards his unconditional love and forgiveness.

Please, Break Up with Me!

This woman is vocally telling him “please, break up with me”, but even this is ignored and rationalized away in his Blue Pill conditioned mindset that tells him all they need is open communication to solve her Hypergamous equation. She literally tells him, “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you.” This is part of her medium, this is her subconscious attempting to tell his subconscious how and why she’s done what she has, but his Blue Pill conditioning has suppressed any hope of that message being translated to him. Bear in mind here, this isn’t necessarily a case of a woman being intentionally malicious. Often this process is one in which she is only playing out as a semi-aware actor of her Hypergamous subroutine.

I’ve had guys relate many similar story in the same vein as this one. In all of them there is a subconscious hope that a paired man which a woman’s Hypergamous instinct has designated as Beta will just get it and understand that she wants him to break up with her. This may be overt, but more often it’s subtle. She’ll leave clues, breadcrumbs, for him to follow that indicate her infidelity in the hopes that he’ll become angry and break up with her. Maybe its an open diary, or an open social media account, or maybe just small convenient absences that are out of the ordinary, but the trail is one her subconscious hopes her man will discover and react to.

There are many reasons for this. The principle one being she desires an easily acknowledged reason for her exit from that pairing. Even if she’s been unfaithful women maintain large social support networks that forgive them of their sins – and this primarily because her girlfriends are living out the same Hypergamous subroutines themselves. It becomes rationalized away, chalked up to her “journey of self-discovery”, not something she was proud of, but a necessary part of her life in becoming “who she really is.”

 Blue Pill men get a sort of double jeopardy in this situation. Their conditioning predisposes them to believing that a woman’s communication is to always be taken as honest and at face value. This is really the source of a lot of Blue Pill mens’ self-inflicted wounds. They believe the notion that women and men are co-equal, rational agents whose evolved consciousness places them above natural instincts. Thus, they never make the Medium is the Message connection. Instead they consciously repress what those instincts, their own and women, are telling them.

When this instinctual suppression is combined with Blue Pill deferral to women and their false assumption that communication is the key to solving all intersexual problems, then you get into this situation. One where that woman desperately wants a guy to get so pissed off that her drops the hammer and leaves her, like she’d expect any Alpha lover to do. However, his Beta disposition makes this hope for anger an impossibility and the very Blue Pill conditioning that made him so acceptable as a provider and a comfort makes her exiting the relationship impossible without her feeling some actual guilt for having to take the initiative to leave him.

And this is where real feminine guilt becomes unavoidable. She’s the one who has to kill the puppy because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become angry enough to do it himself. This is where her real guilt and real resentment of him come into play for her. He’s too accommodating and to ready to rationalize away his forgiveness for her to avoid the bad feelings she’s hoped to engender in him.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Scray isn’t angry or roid-raging over there . . .”

Then there is some other reason that he is projecting that. He is certainly projecting that. I haven’t directly addressed any of his “arguments,” because he is barely even coherent at this point.

Two points he has made over the past few days stand out to me though. His take on looks and nexting have gone all Good Looking Loser.

You can’t score with the babes unless you’re ripped, because looks are primary, and don’t calibrate and tighten your game, just next the bitch.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Sun

…..at your suggestion, it’s not me starting shit… again, just note.

I’m not playing the ” bs game ” anymore.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Halloween? I’m gonna go out at least twice this weekend. Google around for parties in the city, go to one that looks good, if none do just hit the clubs. I’ll probably alternate between not dressing up and putting on my whole tunic and cloak thingy. Leave behind the sword this year. All the girls want to be Harley. Anyone got some good tech for opening that? I haven’t seen the movie. I’m thinking just open with “No. Not you.” “What?” “You’re not crazy enough to be Harley.” then qualify them on how crazy they can act for you. Then… Read more »

MrT
MrT
6 years ago

@kfg

Quote that motherfucker

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

“What’s your costume??”

[look down with a look of concern. Look back up.] “What costume?”

“That one!”

“Why would I be wearing a costume?”

[she shoves you] “It’s Halloween!”

“What’s Halloween? Are you telling me you aren’t a real cat?”

“I’m nooot a cat!”

“I am so done with you.”

Play with them.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally Sentient tries to get Mersonia (and anyone who dares to disagree with the OMG clique, I think he went after Anonymous Reader for info in the last thread) to give some personal info so he can dig through it for things to shame and discredit him with. LOL… First, if one feels shame or thinks their argument is discredited by revealing their actual experience… well that says it all right there. Second – a point of view is called that for a reason. Where are you standing? How did you get there? What can you see? Third – I… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Man, who is distributing all these bees in people’s bonnets? I want one.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

KFG His take on looks and nexting have gone all Good Looking Loser.

I thought I was seeing things… LOL

mersonia
6 years ago

@KFG

“Then there is some other reason that he is projecting that. He is certainly projecting that. I haven’t directly addressed any of his “arguments,” because he is barely even coherent at this point.”

comment image

Quote what he said… Instead of contorting his post instead something that clearly was never stated and fits your narrative.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

YaReally – you may not have seen it, but there was a recent very solid substantive comment from HABD at the end of the Mitch comment thread discussing why even a husband accused of child molestation is still better off than a baby daddy in relation to child support (and I tried to summarize your position and his in response to that). Also some good points from Forge and HABD a page or two earlier this thread about the impact of leaving your kid/pLTR Primary in line with your proposed plan to break up with the Primary to give her… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally

http://www.15-seconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/broken_record1.jpg

I don’t think you really grasp what logical debate is.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Forge

Yeah, I’m betting on a bunch of ” Harley’s” out this year.

It would be cool if guys dressed as Joker and hit on them.

My daughter is doing the Harley thing, baseball bat and all.

If I’d been thinking ahead, I’d have done the Batman thing. My bro in law has a killer costume of the bat with light up eyes. Lol.

I do look forward to the parties though. It’ll be a good time.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Forge

or

“you can’t keeping looking at me like this… i might not be able to resist you…”

lol…

good luck!

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“You guys are just throwing feels and trying to shame and attack people for examining your beliefs and showing that a lot of them are FI-conditioned or just not up-to-date/relevant in 2016.” NotReally, I’d call it directly responding to AMOGing, shit testing and Strawman arguments taking pot shots at RP OMGs. Who is out there promising monogamy exactly? That’s a strawman. Claiming the only marketplace is in dealing with <25 y.o. pussy. Strawman. Relationship game is worthless. Same. All men that are Alpha have no fears. Same. Provisioning women and children is 100% beta and totally worthless. Same. Calling Jon… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

I’ve just read HABD’s long comment to Andy about the OMG/YSG disconnect and shifting some of your MPO to the kid/wife as a requirement for having a kid and pair-bonding enough to raise the kid, but retaining enough to maintain Hand in the relationship.

It’s great stuff. HABD is hitting all these posts out of the park – he’s really articulating the points the OMGs are trying to make AND highlighting what the disconnect with the younger guys is.

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

Keeping your 70yo wife attracted to you simply doesn’t come with the same obstacles modern men trying to keep a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016 attracted face. This is just objective reality. Again we're happy for you and your wives that you find them attractive still, that's awesome, but no one over at the RVF is posting your wives' pics in the "post your idea of a 10" threads…they OBJECTIVELY have low SMV, and lower SMV than you super badasses as they age, and it's simple logic that a a man keeping a low SMV woman is a different situation than… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

SJB – In Yareally’s world divorce law on the books in 2016 only rapes those men married in 2016 to girls born from 1991 on… and Eat Pray Love never happened…

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Mr. T: “. . . Instead of contorting his post . . .” His posts are designed to be contorted, hence the incoherence. It is a style of rhetoric designed to evade and subvert logical analysis. Formal analysis of the style goes back to the Socratic Dialogues, circa 2400 years ago. Aristotle examined it in greater depth. ” . . . something that clearly was never stated and fits your narrative.” What is my narrative? Bearing in mind that I am not an OMG and defended the GLL style (and the Arthur Jones style as well)? @Sentient: “I don’t think… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Culum

There is no snark in either of the above posts.

i had the snark beat out of me in 1975…lol… but not kidding…

good luck!

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“and you need to work through those grief stages to get there…”

I wouldn’t say I’m grieving. More like a quickly growing nihilism.

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

@Sentient @kfg

Yareally is a fine writer whose points are perfectly clear. You guys don’t have to agree with his points but they are not obscure.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” More like a quickly growing nihilism.”

The trick to nihilism is realizing that it allows you to build your own foundations. Only men who cannot be their own MPO need find it a source of despair.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Andy

There are two responses to nihilism. The first is that, if nothing means anything, everything is meaningless.

The second is that, if nothing means anything, you can make it mean whatever the FUCK you want.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@sfer:

As I have said, he is an extremely easy person to agree with.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Forge

The second is that, if nothing means anything, you can make it mean whatever the FUCK you want.

And figuring out what you want is the challenge “nihilists” cannot grapple with. And what makes the Platinum Rule [Do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it] so all encompassing… and terrifying…

Girl: “What do you want to do?”

Beta: “ummmm. I don’t know.”

Nihilism most often is a disguise for laziness, risk avoidance and permission seeking…

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

“The trick to nihilism is realizing that it allows you to build your own foundations. Only men who cannot be their own MPO need find it a source of despair.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_planning_organization There are five core functions of an MPO: 1) establish a setting: establish and manage a fair and impartial setting for effective regional decision-making in the metropolitan area (UZA) 2)evaluate alternatives: evaluate transportation alternatives, scaled to the size and complexity of the region, to the nature of its transportation issues, and to the realistically available options 3) maintain a regional transportation plan (RTP): develop and update a fiscally constrained… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Rollo: “I’ve always said that if a man can stay in shape, even marginally, keep his BF% in the “normal” range, put on a marginal bit of muscle, be Red Pill aware and Game savvy, he’ll place himself well beyond the SMV of the 68%+ of men in his demographic.” Scray: “This will be enough to put him to where he’s banging the average american woman NSA on the reg, sure, i.e. top 20%-ish percent. But to get the thin hotties, if we change NOTHING ELSE….that dude needs to Live and Breathe the red pill and have some rock solid… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@sfer:

I did not expand it because it has already been expanded in the thread. Had it not been, I would have.

MrT
MrT
6 years ago

@kfg You wanted to tag mersonia btw. “His posts are designed to be contorted, hence the incoherence. It is a style of rhetoric designed to evade and subvert logical analysis. Formal analysis of the style goes back to the Socratic Dialogues, circa 2400 years ago. Aristotle examined it in greater depth.” I guess scray has similarly nasty style of rhetoric. One that is unquotable. :> “What is my narrative?” Gotcha. Scray is an insecure roid-raging manlet. As such, nothing he says is worth responding to any other way than by insults. You are certainly projecting that narrative. “OK, he didn’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Mr T: “You wanted to tag mersonia btw.” Iterum mea culpa. “Scray is an insecure roid-raging manlet.” No, my point is that that is what he is projecting. “As such, nothing he says is worth responding to any other way than by insults.” No. Very little that he says can be properly responded to in a logical manner, since what he says is emotional. I do not wish to engage in cat fighting, but am not averse to wielding a 2×4 to see if I can get a man’s attention. It is always possible that he may take that as… Read more »

MrT
MrT
6 years ago

@kfg

He will probably tell you the same.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@NotReally

Scray’s been dropping some ice cold truths and none of you has brought any kind of discussion/debate to the table. Just insulted him and condescendingly spouted pseudo-philosophical fluff that boils down to FI-conditioning when put under a microscope.

lol

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Mr T:

That is entirely possible, although he is not, so far as I can tell, addressing any narrative of mine (my points above are not part of any narrative. They stand alone).

verbarglaucus
6 years ago

Why do some men lie about their exclusivity when they spin plates? Isn’t this type of deception, be it charming or not, merely deference to a feminine frame? That men need to conceal their dalliances and desires because it gives womenz feelz a boo-boo or inspires constructive dread? I don’t get it. Why not say, ‘Yeah, I’m seeing another bitch. You want a piece of her too or something?’ What’s so hard about that? Even if you’re monogamous, if there’s a girl hanging around whom you KNOW you’ll eventually fuck, why not tell your wife about it? Hell, get excited… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@verbarglaucus:

You characterize women as the the enemy.

War is the art of ____________?

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

Yareally is a fine writer whose points are perfectly clear.

No he’s not that at all. He’s verbose AF. Way, way, way too many words. A good writer finds a way to make his points powerfully with many fewer words.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@EarthToNotReally Mrs. Gamer walks into a bar and gets hit on within microseconds. Or a dance studio. Sure, she’s a 1%er. Her looks equate to a 20 y o HB6, maybe. And she is very feminine, nice, and sweet, and has superb social skills, is charming, etc. No, it doesn’t happen at the kiddie bars, but we play with grownups. I get hit on at the kiddie bars or pickleball courts by youngsters, lol. No, you faggot, not by men, lol. (I’m reading your mind.) I know both sides…OMG context and YSG context, just like Sentient, Blax, etc. Wtf do… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Yareally is a fine writer whose points are perfectly clear. You guys don’t have to agree with his points but they are not obscure. It’s when he obscures the discussion with illogical shit that I have a problem with him. Like mischaracterizing what others have written, for example. He does this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. If you don’t see it, you haven’t been paying attention. Generally, I agree with YaReally and often side with him on debates. A good writer finds a way to make his points powerfully with… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

Asd’s an angry, high strung fellow, huh?

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg@MrT and note, when feet go to fire and quotes are pulled, it is revealed that kfg completely misread my point — and he is still misreading it with that “looks are primary if you’re game savvy” comment, too. like lol this happens over and over. i bring up something, anticipate counter-points, explain the nuances, and people come over later with their gibberish and reveal that they have misunderstood what i’ve been saying all along. keep the quotes (and revealed errors of yours) coming. @newbies@lurkers of course, the big tell here is where the defensiveness to my points come from:… Read more »

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

“The trick to nihilism is realizing that it allows you to build your own foundations. Only men who cannot be their own MPO need find it a source of despair.”

Spent 10 minutes googling and I still have no idea what MPO is.

I do know about nihilism because Janice in HR is a nihilist. Oh wait; she isn’t, because nobody is a nihilist. That isn’t a real thing that people are, or that people use to build their foundations, or which leads to despair without their MPO.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

“you can’t keeping looking at me like this… i might not be able to resist you…” Nice, tx! @Hank Good lead w/ the single mother! Unfortunately it’s hard to give much advice past ‘know things about the situation that you don’t.’ When does the kid go to bed? Are they a sound sleeper? How are the bedrooms/other escalation areas laid out in her house? This is one of those weird situations where the lay logistics are mostly within the lay location, which you haven’t seen yet. But obviously, the vital thing is to have a frame wherein you just assume/expect… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@sfer

Lol do you even Rational Male?

https://therationalmale.com/2014/11/14/mental-point-of-origin/

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“keep the quotes (and revealed errors of yours) coming.”

Whenever I can.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Scray just covered this, but I think the thing people are missing about his commentary is that it’s descriptive rather than prescriptive. He’s not saying you should be 100% alpha all the time or you’re some pathetic compromised weakling. He’s commenting on what a man, in a state of perfect strength and opportunity, would act like. And pointing out how even fairly strong men need to compromise downward from that, since no man is a god. It’s just a way of being crystal clear about the bedrock basics. To be fair to the critics, he’s also coming off very der… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray – the issue isn’t defensiveness it’s one of denseness… Like
Morality restricts someone’s actions…

Did you ever read any of my FR’s you commented on? Or anything at all about the Alpha Triad being amoral?

so correction is required…

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Spent 10 minutes googling and I still have no idea what MPO is.”

Mental Point of Origin: https://therationalmale.com/2014/11/14/mental-point-of-origin/

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

He’s commenting on what a man, in a state of perfect strength and opportunity, would act like.

Except he is getting bassackwards because of his current level of experience and ego investment… God is merciful, men not so much…

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

Except he is getting bassackwards because of [my need to align red pill beliefs with my prior social conditioning and to reconcile the two]

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

Thanks for the pointer to Mental Point of Origin. I did a search for “MPO and Rolo” and that page did not come up.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

You might like Blackdragon’s view on this, and his attempts to develop a system to pull with the same parameters as he regularly pulls under 33YO’s gaming ancient snatch often requires more skill than does dealing with kiddies of the distaff sex… welp, when you’re out there pulling those “kiddies” I’ll be more inclined to believe you. http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?13358-The-Over-33-Technique-Thread BLACKDRAGON 11-30-2014, 06:02 PM That’s true, over-33s are much stronger and you need much more frame control. At the same time, doing PUA shit like cold reads (in my experience anyway) are just going to annoy over-33s and piss them off. Also,… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@sfer:

I took your earlier comment as a note on my style, or I would have supplied it right away.

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

To give the old guys in good marriages credit. That isn’t easy. Perimenopausal women generally hate their husbands (even as they are starved for attention from other men). You would think it would be easy to game them but it is not, especially as resentments are built up.

anon
anon
6 years ago

“He’s commenting on what a man, in a state of perfect strength and opportunity, would act like.”

Yes indeed. The Perfect Alpha.
And if he were here he’d consume the fembots with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse.

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

“Acting beta is actually alpha as long as doing it was your choice.” Is the only rebuttal I’ve seen to Scray’s points, which then just devolves into “you just don’t get it because of lack of experience”

How is that different than “showing her vulnerability is alpha” FI conditioning? Or will I understand when I’m older?

It does come across as backwards-rationalizing (hamstering as scray put it)

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Othergrain:

How is Game different from being a dancing monkey for pussy?

“you just don’t get it because of lack of experience”

Can you write me a technical manual on how to walk a tightrope, or will I just not get it until I have experienced it?

Society is not a machine. Social interaction is not a technology.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Case in point on kfg comment
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NlT

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

Just breaking: Talking with 20ish RN’s (both HB 5) Me to RN 1: What’s your costume this year? RN 1: A giraffe, blah blah blah… Me: Really? My friends mom is going as one too! If you see her you could wrap your necks noodle-like. Kinda like the real thing…if your bottom gets get an itch you could rub your bottom on something hard, like the bar corner or a tree…maybe strip a branch of its leaves with you mouth. Cool costume. RN 2: What are you going as? Me: Gay cowboy. RN 1: What’s that look like? Me: Natch!… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

“How is Game different from being a dancing monkey for pussy?” One works and the other doesn’t. It’s a white knight caricature. “Can you write me a technical manual on how to walk a tightrope, or will I just not get it until I have experienced it?” Not sure how the metaphor fits, but if you’re talking about balance, yea you learn it through experience and calibration. Every man is a balance of alpha and beta behavior in their relationships. And an LTR requires a different balance than a ONS. That doesn’t change the fact that some behaviors are beta…the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Novaseeker
Way, way, way too many words. A good writer finds a way to make his points powerfully with many fewer words.

Many fewer words? Or many, many, many fewer words?
Just asking.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago

War sex and dancing monkeys
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aristophanes/lysistra/

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

I should have said:

RN 2: What are you going as?

Me: Tranny cowgirl.

RN 1: What’s that look like?

Me: Natch! A cowboy.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“One works and the other doesn’t.” The world population is about triple what it was when I was born. Somebody has been doing a shitload of fucking, and it ain’t all alphas. ” . . . if you’re talking about balance, yea you learn it through experience and calibration.” There ya go. “That doesn’t change the fact that some behaviors are beta…the alpha and beta are to hypergamy what good and evil are to morality.” Those are useful models, with predictive capacity, but the models are rather crude and the map is not the territory. In some places you can… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@AR:

Thoreau has been criticised for the wordiness of “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

“The world population is about triple what it was when I was born. Somebody has been doing a shitload of fucking, and it ain’t all alphas.” Right, it’s called provider GAME for a reason, because it IS a strategy. I figured you meant Game as in applied charisma as heartiste puts it, knowledgeable application of attraction comfort and seduction concepts to repeatably have sex with women. See the scray-AR argument from earlier this week regarding provider game. “Those are useful models, with predictive capacity, but the models are rather crude and the map is not the territory.” He already covered… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Thoreau has been criticised for the wordiness of “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”

Not thoreauily enough, though.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Not thoreauily enough, thoreau

FIFY

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

FR update:

Field tested the tranny cowgirl line x2. Two RN’s thoroughly befuddled. Had to explain the double negative. Joke too unwieldy for general use? Girls here stupid on stilts?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“He already covered the nuances.”

With regard to his set of axioms. It is not only a crude model, but a restricted one as well.

Can you define success?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Of course those who criticise mistake “Simplify, simplify, simplify!” for a simple, declarative statement. Perhaps they do so simply for the sake of the joke. It is amusing.

But it is, in fact, a standard lecture in the three parts (Part 1: Tell them what you’re going to say. Part 2: Say it. Part 3: Tell them what you said).

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

Right!

Updated simplicity axiom: Brevity is the soul.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

Many fewer words? Or many, many, many fewer words?
Just asking.

If I had to say how many, I would take up a good 15-24 inches of screen, scroll. Just sparing everyone, of course.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Joke too unwieldy for general use?

Your own field test says so.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

@kfg

Redundancy can be redundant.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Updated simplicity axiom: Brevity is the soul.

Further update: Brevity.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@forge ok. main thing will be just getting her to meet up again — girls have lots of flakiness. that said this girl has been trying to pick me up over several months so I think its less likely she will flake. i tink I can bring up the movie prety easily, and go pick up the movie at the redbox then go to her place. once there, I can start out and get a tour of the place. make sure to go in her room just for a bit, so its not the first time Ive been in there… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  hank holiday

Fail early and fast
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1Nfe

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

FR:

Misus text as follows:

I’m sorry for my harshness last night. Let’s talk. I’ve got some (good thoughts) to share with you. I love you, I am sorry.

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
6 years ago

11 words to remember, extracted from Rollo Tomassi’s final paragraph in the post above:

because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become

I can only imagine how long the book would be –
If those 11 words were used in the middle of sentences –
Written by the experiences of every former Blue Pill man.

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
6 years ago

Personalizing Rollo’s 11 words:

because (my) Blue Pill conditioning (wouldn’t) allow for (me) to become

Then realizing the truth:

because I allowed Blue Pill conditioning to stop me from becoming

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Sam Botta

Just dropping in to say hello.

It’s always good to hear from you.

Vektor
Vektor
6 years ago

I am very familiar with this topic. This is part of why marriage is a mistake. You want to be with a woman, fine. But you must always be willing and able to walk away from her the instant she behaves badly or you perceive you are not getting positive value out of the relationship. The key to this is that you able to walk away with no lingering cost or expense to you. Women behave badly when they perceive that they can….and behave better when they perceive that they need to. You must be able and willing to walk… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@grainofsalt

Asd’s an angry, high strung fellow, huh?

Fuck yeah!

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@scray

welp, when you’re out there pulling those “kiddies” I’ll be more inclined to believe you.

Ditto when you’re able to stay in a relationship with a mature woman for over 3 decades without getting frivorced or dumped…anyone 55+ will do.

You act like gaming these older women is difficult for us old hands and takes lots of hard effort…NotReally, several of us have developed unconscious competence. But if you lack the skillset, it can seem daunting.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@grainofsalt

You imply that doing “a lot more nexting” is worse than “managing drama”, but that’s entirely subjective.

Alphas next a lot, leaving fatherless households or maybe some beta to bring up their brood. If your ethics allow for that, troubled kids are on you (“you” in the generic sense). Some of us see that as sociopathic.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@EhIntellect Simple is better. It’s harder to process a joke told verbally than one read on the screen, to say nothing of one invented in your own head. I thought it was quite funny, but even I would have possibly done a double-take if someone told it to me verbally out of the blue. @hank Ya I think you have a decent chance. It sounds like you framed it well for her. If necessary you can escalate in a living room just fine, especially if you have easy kino as soon as you’re isolated. Just a bit, get her used… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Forge

Take her rebuffs/pulling away seriously. But ONLY as a ‘not yet’ signal, not as a rejection. Let her ease into it.

First one is “not yet” and 2nd is “no, take me home”. It’s implied that you give her a little time to accept the idea that you two will have sex and that she gives you a nonverbal signal that she’s ready for more….lots of sighing, moaning, passionate kisses, etc.

This is from my high school pickup/same night days (lol), but biology hasn’t changed, so it still works the same in 2016.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@scray

Hypothetically, if I were to bang a kiddie (why would I want to–they’re fucking boring), you may rest assured that I would never post it on the jumbotron.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Forge A couple of weeks back I invited a bunch of friends to enter the comments here at TRM, and give me their insight as to some of the… dialogue that was happening at that time. They declined joining in because there wasn’t any point to it. But to your ” telling a joke ” thing, every one of my pals told me that I did a lousy job of expressing myself in type. I was told that it was damn near impossible to tell it was me, if they didn’t know what my screen name was. I would’ve… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

FWIW the more things change the more they stay the same,see evo psych,biology sexual social dynamics. Was out there getting the young hotties 40yrs ago,back then we didn’t have cell phones we had dial phones that plugged into the wall,you know party lines where 7 people could listen to your convo,dial 0 for info no 911. We didn’t have social media we had actual society,to deal with.We still had to look good or drive a fast car,a cool place to go park,converse high tops and 501s,a donny osmond,fonzie,or hendricks hair style,or letter jacket.If you were good at sex all the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ stuff

When I finally got my driver’s license at 17, I drove from New Jersey to Los Angeles with a fold up map, and the sun.

Youngsters laugh at that now, because GPS.

Stand outside on a sunny day and ask them to point East and they just go ” wut?? Lol “.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Forge

“If it’s the two of you alone in her house, SHE WANTS YOU TO BANG HER.”

….fuck.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@culum @yareally @forge @habd FR went to bad city. hate this city, and have been feeling very badly in general, but pushed through. had to hunt for a parking deck went to first venue. jammed pack. just not feeling social right now, too loud music. chatted up a lone black dude. he was looking over at the gaggle of white chicks “man, I’m just wonderin how you approach?” hmmm indeed. but white chicks, so I peace out. go to another venue. chat up a dude real quick on the way there. he tells me there is going to be a… Read more »

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Forge: YaReally suggested that going normally is peacocking, you will get shit tested for the lack of costume. If you can pass…

anon
anon
6 years ago

“Simple is better. It’s harder to process a joke told verbally than one read on the screen, to say nothing of one invented in your own head. I thought it was quite funny, but even I would have possibly done a double-take if someone told it to me verbally out of the blue.” Yes. Humor is a tricky thing and a lot comes down to delivery. This particular one, I think, would make the recipient a little uncomfortable. I’d avoid any pickup lines that include referring to oneself as a tranny, even if they are kind of clever and aren’t… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

Blax “When I finally got my driver’s license at 17, I drove from New Jersey to Los Angeles with a fold up map, and the sun. Youngsters laugh at that now, because GPS.” The difference is the sense of adventure at seventeen,actualizing a car that will drive coast to coast without making payments.No fear rather the pull of the setting sun.Beat you there by a year by the way,spent the summer of 77 from kansas to casadero down the coastal to sandiego and back up to huntington.The west coast was a big draw for me back then. Glad I got… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
6 years ago

The Reid Technique Police interrogation is essentially a nine step overlapping process to shake the confidence of a suspect. Set-up, attention, overcoming denials and objections, she loses resolve, offering a Hobson’s choice of motives, and the confession. The part I like the most is getting the attention. Like kino, cops use well-timed touch to propel a bewildered, flustered suspect to confession. Dateline: Yesterday 7:30 P.M. After work I stop in at the local gin mill and talk up a clutch of 10 RN’s, all HB 5-6’s. Really, it’s that pathetic. Most would be 1-2 HB higher if they’d just drop… Read more »

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

I just had one of those game epiphanies last night. I called out my one plate for having an orbiter and going out for little dinners and was ready to walk. Meantime I met up with a new hb7 I met on the bus. Plate begs me to stay. Says it’s all just basically just activity partner crap and then participates in the nastiest wildest bang session of my entire life. I’m thinking this whole thing over. Do I really want to go on little dates to keep one girl? Or do I want a series of girls who bang… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  walawala

Presence
http://wp.me/p5MelF-1ut

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Ehintellect

Sounds soooooo boring. Hat tip on the NLP olives bit. Anchoring in action now.

Wala – good realitization. Move forward and realize that if you do all the girls will be chasing you… Take some tips from EhIntellect and you will get your ride or die girls…

YaReally
6 years ago

Fuck I love Halloween lol For the guys sarging this weekend/monday/in general: do whatever you have to (wink wink) to get the infield vids from Julien’s TenGame product. The product itself is all internal game/mindsets (PIMP is all external and still the best resource for actual external tactics) but you can skip all that, just check out the infield. There’s like 10 vids with in-depth breakdowns that are fucking FANTASTIC (plus he’s always sober, not even a drink in his hand, dressed casual/bad, and often solo when he approaches (good inspiration for the guys who don’t have wings to rely… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

ok, i been thinking about all this ‘monogamy’ shit, and what the disconnect is… bc there surely is one…lol… and i think i got it sorted… (and i’m pretty sure @Rollo has covered this before (i’m just tooo lazy to look up the OPs…lol)…) it’s a matter of frame (big ‘surprize’…lol)… or MPoO… it’s a spectrum/bell curve (like most human distros…lol) on one end is the monogamy that scray/YaReally/etc are talking about – GIVEN monogamy…(which is part of the FI value set cluster of ‘legal contract marriage’)… where the guy essentially says “i don’t value myself enough to believe that… Read more »

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