The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much as I’d like to brag about having a previous essay for any occasion, I realized I hadn’t really covered this situation. Well, not in any great depth anyway,…
Bit of background: my girlfriend and I are both working people with solid jobs. Mine involves working partly in a lab a fair distance away from where we live, and I am gone for about 2 weeks a month. We have been together 5 years, and things have always been awesome between us. No major fights to speak of.
The incident happened last Saturday night. I was due to return the following Monday, and my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.
Saturday was a typically busy day for me, and I was really tired and went to sleep early that night, as I had to get up early to get back to work. Get back to work Sunday, not checking my phone as I was running late, and noticed lots of messages and voicemails waiting for me when I got to the lab. All from my GF: in all the voicemails, she was in tears, and told me that she’d been out dancing in a club and that she’d been fairly tipsy, but not really drunk.
Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back. I don’t know how long, or any details, but she said she realized what she’d done and returned home as soon as possible, where she started calling and texting me.
I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.
She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her – I guess I have to give her time, but honestly, I’m barely holding on looking at her in her state. I bear no ill will towards her, I just think she made a mistake in the heat of the moment. I’m completely lost. I don’t know how I can convince her that I can move past this, and that I still love her. Even I have been near tears at times these past few days. I need a place to vent, I don’t have many people I can talk to, and I need to write down my thoughts.
TL;DR: GF made out with someone in a bar while I was out of town and is an absolute wreck right now, even though I think I can move past it and work at getting everything back on track. I’m lost and don’t know how to convince her. I don’t know what she is thinking and I’m barely holding on.
Now, a bit later he gives this thread a status update.
UPDATE: I left her a note yesterday night in the kitchen, saying some things, we can work past this, etc. etc. She left a note at the same place I had. There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”
The TRP subredd commenters have pretty much covered the majority of what I would point out. We’re dealing with an abject Beta here who, like most Blue Pill conditioned men buys into the touchy-feely ‘open communications will solve everything’ fallacy. He also feels it’s incumbent upon him to follow the ‘be the bigger man’ meme and forgive her indiscretions (at least the ones she felt guilty enough to relate to him in a text). And really, what’s to forgive anyway? It was only a kiss, right?
For a bit of context, they’re both 26, and are living together. We don’t really know much about how long they’ve been together, but if they’re roommates (always a bad idea) I’m going to guess it’s been at least a couple of years.
What this guy is experiencing is actually a very common rationalization strategy women will use when they are saddled with a man their subconscious recognizes as Beta. In The Medium is the Message I point out that there’s really no such thing as ‘mixed messages’ and that women’s behaviors will generally inform a guy as to what a woman’s real intent is. This is a basic behavioral psychology principle; behavior is the only true measure of motivation and intent. Thus, all the verbalizing of intent, verbal rationalization of purpose and ‘open communication’ simply becomes a part of the behavior which Red Pill behaviorists then parse as true intent.
Yes, this can get tedious in the beginning, and yes, it seems like a huge waste of time trying to second guess a woman’s intent, but understanding what a woman’s ‘medium’ is informing you about is a necessary step to internalizing Red Pill awareness. Once you’ve had experience in this parsing a woman’s behaviors with the behavior that is her rationalizations, it’s from this point that a Red Pill aware man can begin to predict behaviors and become more effective ‘readers’ of what a woman’s actions is somewhat reliably telling them.
In this guy’s case his girlfriend’s messaging is pretty clear to any marginally Red Pill aware man. Her behavior is born from a desire to escape the domesticity of their live-in arrangement and while she’s ‘out with the girls’ she seizes an opportunity to engage in an extra-pairing affair. Naturally, what we ‘know’ from what’s related is that she got tipsy and just kissed a guy. As you might expect, the commenters on the TRP sub jump to what predictably happened and the speculation is a lot more than just kissing.
Evo-Bio 101
However, all speculation aside, we have to make a few basic connections here. My first expectation is that she was likely in the proliferative (pre-ovulatory) phase of her menstrual cycle. I can’t be certain, but I’m sure if the guy were to be objective, he’d see the signs. Second, her behavior belies intent, and thus she seeks an extra-pair encounter and puts herself into an environment that will likely facilitate it. The kissing (assuming that’s all it was) is still a behavior that indicates she’s open to a short term breeding opportunity (Alpha Fucks) and is looking, even if just temporarily, to escape her domestic situation with her Beta live-in boyfriend.
That’s basic evo-psych/evo-bio Red Pill awareness of women’s nature. What gets interesting is when she feels compelled to relate her “infidelity” to her Beta boyfriend. The first presumption we make is that she’s felt some pangs of guilt for having betrayed his trust, but as we’ll see this is in error. We make this presumption because, like this guy does, we want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt when it comes to guilt because men and women popularly believe that women have a supernatural gift for empathy. It simply ‘sounds right’ to believe that a woman had an error in judgement whilst a little tipsy, but again we need to see this situation objectively from an evo-psych/behaviorist perspective.
When I break down this Beta guy’s rationalization process you’ll begin to see how this presumption of empathy and his Blue Pill conditioned mindset actually works against this girl, but for now we have to get a grasp of her feminine subconscious and how it reflexively interacts with the sexual imperative of Hypergamy. Most women’s confessions of extra-pair infidelity isn’t rooted in guilt. That’s not to say women don’t feel guilt or regret, it’s just to say that the functional purpose of the confession doesn’t subconsciously originate in feelings of guilt.
When women ‘cheat’, even when it’s non-sexually, their subconscious is testing the man it suspects is Beta which she’s paired with for confirmation of him being Beta. This is potentially risky, of course, but such is the prime directive of Hypergamy that if it is subconsciously suspected that a paired-with man is less that Hypergamously optimal the long term benefits of confirmation outweigh any risks. Thus, a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.
If nothing else, her confession of infidelity should be interpreted as a lack of genuine desire for a man – such a lack that it’s necessitated her behavior of engaging in genuine desire with another man. What rationalizations and verbal communications that follow from this point should be consider part of that woman’s behavioral set, and in terms of the Medium being the message, should be assessed as her medium.
So what do we see in this case?
I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.
he is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her…
On the surface we have the reports of this guy stating that she’s wracked with remorse and asking forgiveness. Sounds reasonable enough, right? No talking, cuddling, comfort and consolation, but wont look him in the eye, leaves early, comes back late. The guy presumes she’s broken inside and can’t forgive herself, but her behaviors imply that she’s disappointed in his reaction to just the marginal amount of information she’d related about her “infidelity”.
In his update we get this part, emphasis mine:
There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”
In the post Gut Check I mention how men’s subconscious awareness subtly informs their conscious awareness by picking up on shifts in behavior, attitude and environment. Through our socialization, acculturation and Blue Pill conditioning, men are taught to suppress this natural, instinctual messaging that our gut is telling us. We do so because we fear being accused of male insecurity, jealousy and not subscribing wholesale to the equalist idea that men and women are co-equal rational agents who’ve evolved past anything like our baser natures.
Yet here, with the benefit of Red Pill awareness, we can see a perfect example of a guy suppressing what his peripheral awareness is basically screaming at him. This woman has essentially verified his Beta status by his default willingness to forgive her Alpha Fucks indiscretions with few (if any) questions asked. That test failed, she now hopes he will actually get angry enough to break up with her. Again, test failed, as all of his efforts are directed towards his unconditional love and forgiveness.
Please, Break Up with Me!
This woman is vocally telling him “please, break up with me”, but even this is ignored and rationalized away in his Blue Pill conditioned mindset that tells him all they need is open communication to solve her Hypergamous equation. She literally tells him, “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you.” This is part of her medium, this is her subconscious attempting to tell his subconscious how and why she’s done what she has, but his Blue Pill conditioning has suppressed any hope of that message being translated to him. Bear in mind here, this isn’t necessarily a case of a woman being intentionally malicious. Often this process is one in which she is only playing out as a semi-aware actor of her Hypergamous subroutine.
I’ve had guys relate many similar story in the same vein as this one. In all of them there is a subconscious hope that a paired man which a woman’s Hypergamous instinct has designated as Beta will just get it and understand that she wants him to break up with her. This may be overt, but more often it’s subtle. She’ll leave clues, breadcrumbs, for him to follow that indicate her infidelity in the hopes that he’ll become angry and break up with her. Maybe its an open diary, or an open social media account, or maybe just small convenient absences that are out of the ordinary, but the trail is one her subconscious hopes her man will discover and react to.
There are many reasons for this. The principle one being she desires an easily acknowledged reason for her exit from that pairing. Even if she’s been unfaithful women maintain large social support networks that forgive them of their sins – and this primarily because her girlfriends are living out the same Hypergamous subroutines themselves. It becomes rationalized away, chalked up to her “journey of self-discovery”, not something she was proud of, but a necessary part of her life in becoming “who she really is.”
When this instinctual suppression is combined with Blue Pill deferral to women and their false assumption that communication is the key to solving all intersexual problems, then you get into this situation. One where that woman desperately wants a guy to get so pissed off that her drops the hammer and leaves her, like she’d expect any Alpha lover to do. However, his Beta disposition makes this hope for anger an impossibility and the very Blue Pill conditioning that made him so acceptable as a provider and a comfort makes her exiting the relationship impossible without her feeling some actual guilt for having to take the initiative to leave him.
And this is where real feminine guilt becomes unavoidable. She’s the one who has to kill the puppy because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become angry enough to do it himself. This is where her real guilt and real resentment of him come into play for her. He’s too accommodating and to ready to rationalize away his forgiveness for her to avoid the bad feelings she’s hoped to engender in him.
@Rollo: @Softek, your father is a Blue Pill Alpha. These are some of the worst White Knights you will ever know. New term for me also, but the behavior is well known. I’ve come to think that the White Knights, most especially the formidable ones (Blue Pill Alpha) that can hold their own against other men (unlike manginas) have done more to advance feminism and the FI than anyone else, all women included. You didn’t ask me Softek, but your comment that “my dad is supposed to be on my side” really struck a chord. This is one father’s opinion,… Read more »
@Rollo Regarding the OP: I think there’s a dynamic/tactic that’s possibly being used here that you didn’t brush on. Like a few other commentators, I think it’s likely that the instigation in this case wasn’t making out (or possibly more, whatever – doesn’t matter) with another man. It’s that something happened that made her fear being caught. Maybe a friend of his saw her or something. The confession and extreme guilt she’s displaying are tactics meant to control how that information gets to him – in an underplayed fashion, and with extreme contrition, so as to elicit sympathy and forgiveness.… Read more »
Bluepill Alpha
https://youtu.be/0-ZQED7bLhw
@Blax
I get it. It just fascinates me that you can get to that point with your social conditioning intact. Like the fucking Zombie King or something. Most guys are going to absolutely destroy every last belief they ever had before they get to that point.
Andy
Not all social conditioning is the FI
Blax
How did you come to find TRM? Most guys find this kind of stuff (at least PUA shit) by googling “how do I talk to girls” or something along those lines
i.e. not already RP
@ othergrain ” How did you come to find TRM? Most guys find this kind of stuff (at least PUA shit) by googling “how do I talk to girls” or something along those lines ” Lol. I was also googling something. I don’t remember what exactly it was. I’d been kinda drifting around the sphere, just reading along out of curiosity. I was on Roosh and Heartiste mostly. I found it interesting, except for the racial stuff that kept growing. Too bad too, as Heartiste used to be really, really good. Roosh, meh. I remember that I read an article… Read more »
@YaReally, Scray, PUAs Recent conundrum. Suppose you have had moderate attraction comfort with a girl. You ask her out, she agrees but then she mentions her friend/(s) are going to be there. Not sure whether to: 1) Reschedule and make it clear you want a one-on-one meeting 2) Show up, impress the friends and make an early exit As I see it: Advantage 1 – show your intention, she needs to jump into your frame, no chance of becoming an orbiter Advantage 2 – won’t lose attraction by having to postpone meeting and the next time you might both be… Read more »
@ Lost Patrol My dad and I don’t really have much of an open line of communication, as he isn’t one for having conversations. But I have noticed little things he says to me about the relationship are very different in private. Multiple times she’s wanted me to go over her house at night, and if I passed by the living room and he asked what was up, and I told him, he said I needed sleep, to stop stressing out about it, and to just turn off my phone and forget about it. It’s only when she’s around in-person… Read more »
@ Andy ” I get it. It just fascinates me that you can get to that point with your social conditioning intact. Like the fucking Zombie King or something. Most guys are going to absolutely destroy every last belief they ever had before they get to that point.” No no no no. You never burn down the house to get rid of the termites. My social conditioning ( h/t Yareally and scray ) was 100% male influenced and positive. It helped me cope with all of the other shit that tried to creep in from the outside. No matter what… Read more »
“No no no no. You never burn down the house to get rid of the termites.”
Oh. Great. Now you tell me.
lol kfg
Eh intellect
Just breaking:
HB6 tech asks me to tie up her gown.
Me: I’m gonna double knot you.
Her: You can tie me up anyway you want…
Takeaway: It’s a trap. Not in million, billion years. All bad.
No it’s not. It’s just Wednesday… Moving along.
“honey, how was your day?”
@N1. Classic shit. Test. Consider it a handle to build up your social skills and abundance mentality. Show up late. Do the classic Mystery Method group set opener: Look like trouble….you’re the worst…is she always like this? Check out his video. Find a way to pop in and then leave. She’s halfway in and wants to lead you. So do it if you feel like it and then use it as a chance to practice group set game. Charm her friends and. Neg. your target. Game her hot friend. Bring a friend along of your own…decent wing. There’s a number… Read more »
@YaReally and all. Just an update on my plate management. After telling annoying plate we were finished and calling her out for meeting up with orbiter we had a huge row. She totally qualified herself to me…telling me how much I meant to her in between yelling and telling me what an asshole I am. It was a kind of foreplay. She insisted orbiter is just friend. I laughed. She wants to meet up with me . I kept it vague. Point is as YaReally predicted she came back and subjected herself to my calling her out because …it’s stimulating.… Read more »
Rollo
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NzG
@Blax
Some of us lived in Termite colonies. Some of us ARE termites.
“I never understood the ” burn it all to the ground ” mentality when dealing with one’s self.”
When the first thing someone does when they get AMOGed in middle-school is ask for everyone’s phone numbers, It’s time to burn it to the ground.
Flowchart? Hehehe.
I think termites are a bad analogy. At least termites work together. Roaches on the other hand will eat each other. Much better analogy.
@softek: My dad and I don’t really have much of an open line of communication, as he isn’t one for having conversations. Understood. I’ve lived on both sides of that equation. You’re starting to come into your own, he has to fade a little; can be awkward for both parties. At the end of the day, he probably sees some of him in you at the same stage of life, and wants you to win; but isn’t sure how that comes about. It’s a common issue for fathers with sons. Mistakes are likely all around. It’s only when she’s around… Read more »
One further thought on our hypotheses, which I do not believe has been picked up either here or at Reddit: He works away at the weekend at a lab in what is surely a demanding job, yet she cannot even wait to until he returns home on Monday to deliver her bombshell but instead bombards him with texts – one supposes – in the early hours of Sunday knowing that he has a hard day’s work ahead of him and then a night to toss and turn restlessly before a journey home at what time – he does not say… Read more »
@Sentient – Yes, the bathroom thing did occur to me but the logistics didn’t work with the location of the bathroom etc. And the check thing – I should have done that. But really the issue was that my buddy and I were properly drunk especially towards the end – all rational thought and analysis had fled. But I’ll keep it in mind for next time. @Scray – Actually even the relatively mild flirting with the waitress was enough to trigger the “barstar” thing as you call it – he definitely wants to go out more with me, although we… Read more »
http://darktriadman.us12.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=79245797419f604a0086ad7fb&id=9666f01913&e=c9a1e28bdf
Blaximus keepin’ his coat…lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAjlLyq128
good luck!
Everyone
https://www.linkedin.com/learning/body-language-for-leaders
This is Gold
@othergrain Andy Blaximus Andy Not all social conditioning is the FI +1… here’s where Blaximus’ started… As a kid, I was embarrassed by my uncontrollable screaming when a good sized spider would saunter into view. to have this ‘shame’ even be possible, Blax needed to have some ‘just spit on it and keep playing’ masculine influence in his life… in today’s FI world, not many boys are going to feel embarrassed by acting ‘like a girl’… Losing my wife? My family? My possessions? No fear about those things, and just like everything else in life, getting rid of the fear… Read more »
Quotidian Burden of Performance Sentient routinely and deftly touches on men’s expected ability to perform. There’s a lot of legit resistance to pulling the plow in a transactional relationship with women. I get that. How do we maintain unmitigated desire and keep the world around us together? Women sure as hell won’t or can’t maintain order and generally foul it up. Do we allow the house to burn down around us to kill the termites? Dateline: Yesterday 8 P.M. I’m leaving the hospital after 13 hours. Misty rain. The missus texts me that one of the cars is stalled in… Read more »
Collaboration with conflict
Frame potential colloboration
https://www.linkedin.com/learning/fred-kofman-on-managing-conflict
Thanks again for your comments yareally. They are so good. I went to some social event and talked to everybody in costume (not even intentionally- just realized it this morning). People in costumes like attention and are friendly. LOL I was drunk honest with people which isn’t really the smartest move but I tend to be way too stifled and introverted so it seems like a way forward. I told the same stories to everyone. They were not even DHV stories or anything but they were decent stories. I keep shit way to much to myself. Talked to this one… Read more »
Ehintellect / Blax
How do we as men not burn down the house to kill the termites?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkhQuO7QBRM
“I am cumming day and night. It’s terrific right? I am in heaven!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNiJSR07w5w
Alpha vs Paper Alpha…
Mindset in motion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6P2iGguD-g
“most people lack the guts…”
For the guys going out this weekend, thinking about going in costume, some good advice from Roissy:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/beta-halloween-costumes/
“Another option is the politically incorrect costume. These will score points with rebellious chicks who just wanted Daddy to hug them.
Alpha costumes meet one or more of the following criteria — they evoke mystery, danger, coolness, power, or violence”.
I’m going as a Colombian Drug dealer (Narcos). Good luck out there!
Lol. I usually don’t do the costume thing. Haven’t for years. But I’m going to dust off my predator get up for the kiddies and locals. Spent lots of time perfecting that thing and it’s a pretty good replica. Predator handing out goodies. @ HABD One year I did indeed go out for Halloween dressed as Blade, with an actual sword strapped to my back. Folks kept asking me to pull out the sword so they could take pictures with ” Blade “. Eventually I was spied by officers who wanted to inspect the sword up close and they were… Read more »
@N1 – lots in the older YaReally Archive on this. Never meet a girl who wants to meet you at a place of her choosing with her friends. It’s a trap.
Your choice was the right one, provided you didn’t get too needy in how you responded.
“Btw, ” Predator” is my wife’s absolute fave character. Lol…. just sayin’.”
Mystery, danger, coolness, power, violence?
I’ll go as Rasputin.
@YaReally But when I say “ok then taking all of this agreed upon shit and taking what we all know about attraction and female psychology, what if toward the end of the NRE stage (when you still have attraction from her but she’s spending just a liiiiittle too much time on the internet getting validation to reaffirm that she’s still attractive after having your guys’ first kid since he’s off to preschool now and she has all day to be bored and she’s maybe starting to wonder if you’re the best she can get because she has these orbiters coming… Read more »
@HABD Correct, I don’t think a hard takeaway is a good inclusion in ‘the plan.’ Maybe as a back-pocket emergency measure where it’s either leave for a few months or certainly get kicked out for good, but I think if the latter is in play the former won’t work. YaReally suggested doing this when the child is young enough to not understand what’s happening. I’m not a developmental psychologist but have an enthusiast’s understanding of the topic, and unfortunately I don’t think this really works either. A stressed out/distressed mother during early life can have a dramatic impact upon a… Read more »
@HABD – I think YaReally has addressed this point briefly at some point way back in this discussion. I don’t know if he’s really given it much thought but I know he mentioned in passing that he was thinking of a relatively brief absence – weeks to a couple of months so that any kid will just think Dad is on an extended business trip or something – and will probably be so young (4/5) he/she won’t even remember the time later that Dad was away for a while..
Oh I just saw Forge’s response. Yes, that’s the problem. And even if it doesn’t happen in every case, it’s a pretty fucking big risk to take with the kid, especially since you can’t be sure how long you’ll be “away”
http://wp.me/pXWyH-9Wd
@Blax
Hah, last year I made a Celtic warrior get-up. Linen tunic, brat, cloak. Even had the woad (blue face paint) and a broadsword.
I elected to leave the broadsword in the car for indoor venues. It’s my understanding that so long as it’s not concealed it’s not strictly illegal to have a weapon like that in public, but you are definitely asking for unwanted sorts of attention.
@Forge Culum A stressed out/distressed mother during early life can have a dramatic impact upon a person’s ‘background’ emotions for the rest of their life; the brain is basically creating its basic wiring at this stage in a process called ‘Darwinian Pruning,’ establishing its ‘normal’ state of limbic functioning. that’s the problem… it doesn’t really matter how old the kid is, you ‘leaving’ creates a bunch of ‘abandonment’ emotional stress in the situ (kids ping off their environment even more than girls…lol)… AND at the same time 1) removes 50% (you) of the kid’s emotional connection/bonding network/security system and 2)… Read more »
@EhIntellect Great stuff, man. This is all a great demonstration of how to keep things interesting for a woman in an LTR. Your vibe isn’t fundamentally changed from when the relationship was new. Most guys don’t understand – or forget – just how powerfully and frequently sexual women can be if you just know how to be sexy to them….and as you note, like 80% of that is just a fierce desire to fuck her, along with a lack of fear to express that… Women respond to male sexual energy. Consistently and powerfully. They do not respond to male sexual… Read more »
@Forge
Women respond to male sexual energy. Consistently and powerfully. They do not respond to male sexual longing.
that’s an EXCELLENT definition of who’s frame you are in…
energy = your’s
longing = her’s
good luck!
@N1 Recent conundrum. Suppose you have had moderate attraction comfort with a girl. You ask her out, she agrees but then she mentions her friend/(s) are going to be there. Not sure whether to: 1) Reschedule and make it clear you want a one-on-one meeting 2) Show up, impress the friends and make an early exit Depends on your level and what you’re capable of. Assess your skill at group dynamics. Can you walk into >90% of random group settings and DHV yourself to the top of a given group? If the answer is no, keep on with 1). Right… Read more »
@culum He told me yesterday that his wife in her model days used to date [A-List Hollywood Celeb] for 3 months. I don’t want to mention the name just on the off-chance he’s reading RP stuff after the conversation we had. lol he was never dating her I bet. Smashing her, yes. I mean, shit, even the length of time matches up for FB. they were real enough – I’m confident of that. They don’t MEAN as much as they would from a non-hired gun but they were more than just professional friendliness. Ok. Go back there and ask her… Read more »
Forge Most guys don’t understand – or forget – just how powerfully and frequently sexual women can be if you just know how to be sexy to them….and as you note, like 80% of that is just a fierce desire to fuck her, along with a lack of fear to express that… This is one way that Passion in the DPA Triad is conveyed… with a touch of Authenticity… It is the uniquely male quality of intensity which makes them submit… check out some IRL examples of masculine intensity in action… http://i2.wp.com/www.stylevitae.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pep-guardiola-style-1.jpg http://wearandwhere.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/129581606_jose_419566c.jpg http://cdn.yjc.ir/files/fa/news/1395/7/8/5221483_627.png One thing I like to do,… Read more »
@scray
you guys have older wives/LTRs many of them are freaking post-menopause which is like lol.
Lol, because you have so much experience fucking post-menopausal women and being in relationships with them.
Inquiring minds want to know whether scray and YaReally have been in relationships with post-menopausal women because they claim to know all about them so that they can compare them to the U-25 girls. So, guys, have you actually been in relationships with post-menopausal women or are you just keyboard jockeys?
” Inquiring minds want to know whether scray and YaReally have been in relationships with post-menopausal women because they claim to know all about them so that they can compare them to the U-25 girls. So, guys, have you actually been in relationships with post-menopausal women or are you just keyboard jockeys?”
Oh shit, lmao.
that’s pretty damn good.
Just breaking… 4 RN’s prattling at nurses station: RN 1: …and yeah, she finally divorced him. RN 2: Good! It’s better that way. RN 1: Yeah, he was so controlling. He was in the army, you know. Me to RN 1: I was in the army…do YOU find me controlling? RN 3 (30 y.o. HB 7) jumps to the shit test: Yes! Me: I’m half turned facing the 4, give my cutesy eye squint to RN 2. RN 1: EhIntellect, have you been tanning? (Are you kidding me?) Me: No, but I’ve been in South Beach for two weeks on… Read more »
To expand on EhIntellect a bit more: “I’ve always toasted little daily victories with her, our relationship, our kids, anything that will solidify and reflect well on the relationship. I do the same tonight. Glasses clink.” Start the world and make her a valued part of it. She helped you accomplish something within the world you want to make around you; you celebrating that fact is a huge reward for her. Class act. My father compliments my mother’s helping him nearly daily. We warn newbies to not compliment women because they do so from a supplicating ‘please pay attention to/like… Read more »
@ Forge HABD Culum – My divorce took place when my daughter was 11 years old. I/we tried everything possible to make the transition ( me not living with her full time ) as painless and non traumatic as humanly possible. My parents even stepped up, especially my dad as she is very attached to her pop-pop. Even with her age, advanced emotional intelligence, and all of that, there were some very rough moments. Real Talk? If she was younger ( 1-5 years old ), I would not have divorced and stuck around. But that is a personal choice. I… Read more »
link mod hold
“*sigh* Man, it is serious business. I do not have any answers as to how to do it while remaining ” legally free and clear “. Legal has nothing to do with raising kids. Selfishness has nothing to do with raising kids.” There’s the rub. What do we do now that having kids is such a legal boondoggle? What do you do when having children gives you pause for selfish contemplation, as the potential personal costs are so high? You have two categories of decision-making competing that were never meant to so much as acknowledge each other. If you choose… Read more »
@N1 Scray is right, of course. If you have the skill to go in guns blazing and win over her friends, isolate her and bang her with their approval, then that’s the winning play. If you don’t, going is a losing play. A different way to look at it is: this is a shit test, and a quite strong one. If you pass it, you blow her mind. If you can’t, you’ll look like a chode. Big win, big lose. At my skill level, I might go just to practice to see if I could pull from that situ because… Read more »
To add:
The main unknown variable is how receptive/open her friends will be to you. That’s the main difficulty in determining your action. It will be correlated, and possibly countercorrelated, with her interest in you (say if there’s orbiters/wk dudes who resent her attraction to you).
@theasd Lol, because you have so much experience fucking post-menopausal women and being in relationships with them. lmfao at even thinking that’s a good diss here, let me aware you of something: http://www.hookingupsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/SMV.gif So the point is — you guys are “gaming” women who are long past the sell-by date. Like, they are irrelevant. So who gives a shit is more the attitude. Men don’t like those women. Men don’t think those women are most desirable AINEC. You may as well say BRO STOP SAYING ‘BUT THOSE CHICKS ARE FAT UGLY AND GROSS SO LOL’ LIKE BRO DO YOU HAVE… Read more »
As a man who doesn’t want to have kids (and it isn’t even because of the risks, because when I was Blue Pill I already didn’t want them; and thank goodness)… I have some curiosity about why others want to have them. Of the many reasons I got from people, pretty much every single one was selfish. The only good reason to have kids boils down to “because *I* wanted to”. Fair enough, I can’t argue with that. It is inherently selfish (nothing wrong with selfishness, or “enlightened self-interest”, if you prefer). The other ones are variations of “to leave… Read more »
@Scray: a brief aside, even though they are less attractive and allegedly have less options, I have reasons to believe early 30s “lane-changers” may be harder to game than early 20s hotties.
Or maybe not if you can strongly present yourself as lover rather than provider, but anyway.
Someone (Sentient I think) even posted a thread from Blackdragon, for Culum to read, where they discussed that precise demographic and there was a reasonable consensus that they had to spend more time / money to reliably F close those women, than they needed for early 20s.
“Of the many reasons I got from people, pretty much every single one was selfish.”
Oddly enough, that’s the exact response you are likely to get if you delineate the reasons you don’t want to have kids.
“Oddly enough, that’s the exact response you are likely to get if you delineate the reasons you don’t want to have kids.”
Exactly. I’m not quite sure what IAS is looking for here; under these definitions any motivation could be considered selfish.
Lol Scray is on fire I totally agree with you wrt to monogamy = beta tell in 2016 I think it all boils down to how women perceive your value. It’s both direct (your DHV, social grace, capacity to escalate while calibrating) and indirect (do guys defer to you? are girls attracted to you?). But the biggest indirect indicator for her to judge your value is : is he going to forego ALL his options in the world to commit to me (aka monogamy). It’s pretty logical in a way : if a guy commits to a girl monogamously, it… Read more »
@IAS @Scray The difficulty increase at this age group is because girls a) still think (or are desperately trying to prove) that they’ve still got it; b) they’re hitting a hail-mary phase of trying to ‘have it all;’ and c) they’ve had enough time to grow jaded of relationships. Bump up the age bracket a bit and the difficulty level craters. The difficulty in gaming 45yo+ women (from what I hear and understand, I don’t try obviously lol) is that they have a hard time believing that you could genuinely be interested in them unless you’re a chunk older then… Read more »
IAS
The only good reason to have kids boils down to “because *I* wanted to”. Fair enough, I can’t argue with that. It is inherently selfish (nothing wrong with selfishness, or “enlightened self-interest”, if you prefer).
Is eating selfish?
[Aside – are you ESL?]
RE: Monogamy, kids, ltr’s.
A dog and a van down by the river sounds better and better every fucking day.
Klem
It’s pretty logical in a way
so now we are using logic on women? Isn’t this how most guys got to TRM?
Cats are not dogs Klem…
“A dog and a van down by the river sounds better and better every fucking day.”
I’m kidding. A little.
^karma
@Klem But the biggest indirect indicator for her to judge your value is : is he going to forego ALL his options in the world to commit to me (aka monogamy). Bravo. Briffault’s law, dudes. The second you make that promise, everything you were getting from her — well, you know the law: any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit. Stop fucking around, dudebros. You wanted to take it, so take it already. Let it go. I… Read more »
Scray
Actually this is the law
The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place. — Robert Briffault, The Mothers, Vol. I, p. 191
So what does that tell you? Like maybe have genuine high value perhaps? Be alpha?
Come on, say it with me “Dee Pee Aye”…
You know… benefits she can continue to derive from associating with you…
@ Forge ” There’s the rub. What do we do now that having kids is such a legal boondoggle? What do you do when having children gives you pause for selfish contemplation, as the potential personal costs are so high? You have two categories of decision-making competing that were never meant to so much as acknowledge each other. If you choose to have children, I believe you need to do it all-in, no fear or hesitation. But at the same time it’s not surprising to me that, increasingly, men – particularly those with something to lose – just….aren’t.” Well, as… Read more »
@sentient that’s true, mine is a corollary…but good job at drawing a distinction without difference here. and no, it’s not just ‘be high value bro.’ for example, your attention could be the most high value thing ever. the second she doesn’t need to associate with you in a certain way to get it, that association will diminish, decrease, or cease. for example —- it used to be that your attention required her to give you sex. the second that ceases to be true, the frequency of sex will drop precipitously. but even if it is “just be high value,” it… Read more »
@sentient
by the way, i notice you never pulled those quotes that you said were “right there.”
wonder why
Blax
I cosign that a guy has to be willing to go all in. For a lot of guys the ” all in ” is the issue. They may not be able to have a family then. Sad to say.
See Biology… Biology is not sad or happy…
It’s all a process…
http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/images/graphics/red_fox_25.jpg
Scray – they are still there for you to go back and explore, more reinforcing that way… if you where here, you could sit on my lap and I could point them out to you…
Lol at all of the monogamy shit…again…and again.
Lol at the ” fat old chicks ” shit again….and again.
What time is recess? I gotta go to my locker for a minute.
Scray
but good job at drawing a distinction without difference here.
You mean good job correcting your error.
Here is another correction – “derive value” does not mean what you think it means…
@sentient
they are still there for you to go back and explore, more reinforcing that way… if you where here, you could sit on my lap and I could point them out to you…
they’re there in a way for you to vaguely allude to without having to back yourself up. convenient!
and yes, if i were there i know you’d want a piece. so would everyone else. only into chicks tho.
@sentient
Here is another correction – “derive value” does not mean what you think it means
maybe, but “derive benefit” means what I think it means. And so does “association.” way to get hoisted by your own pedantic petard, hoss.
@ Klem okay, I’ll bite – ” I think it all boils down to how women perceive your value. It’s both direct (your DHV, social grace, capacity to escalate while calibrating) and indirect (do guys defer to you? are girls attracted to you?). But the biggest indirect indicator for her to judge your value is : is he going to forego ALL his options in the world to commit to me (aka monogamy). It’s pretty logical in a way : if a guy commits to a girl monogamously, it means this girl is the best option he could get. And… Read more »
Relationships happen where there is a mutual exchange of value.
If you want a long-term relationship, develop sources of value which you can reliably maintain long-term.
Hint: not all value is tangible.
” Relationships happen where there is a mutual exchange of value.
If you want a long-term relationship, develop sources of value which you can reliably maintain long-term.
Hint: not all value is tangible.”
@forge
“Relationships happen where there is a mutual exchange of value.”
No… what value do you get from relationships?
@Blax “I honestly believe that many men are not cut out to be fathers, for a myriad of reasons. 5 of my goddaughters have awful dads. That’s why I always have them around me in the first place. 2 dads are drowning in alcohol and drugs, and even though I’m not a psychiatrist. it seems that life pressures, exacerbated by having children, got the better of them. I cosign that a guy has to be willing to go all in. For a lot of guys the ” all in ” is the issue. They may not be able to have… Read more »
@mersonia
You’ve never gotten value from a relationship before?
hint: what value does a women get from staying in an abusive relationship?
@Forge
“You’ve never gotten value from a relationship before?”
No. I’ve never got anything out of a relationship that I couldn’t get without being the relationship. And once I got in a relationship whatever I got from it that I wanted decreased.
“hint: what value does a women get from staying in an abusive relationship?”
The value a women gets in staying in a abusive relationship doesn’t give me any value.
@mersonia
No. I’ve never got anything out of a relationship that I couldn’t get without being the relationship. And once I got in a relationship whatever I got from it that I wanted decreased.
Preach.
Personal choice is personal choice.
@IAS
Which ones do you parents fall on? Anything not on this list?
i always wanted a monkey, but could never afford the license, so i had kids instead…lol… at least that’s what i always tell them…lol…
as pets, kids are GREAT, they’re almost human… almost… lol…
good luck!
@Andy
A dog and a van down by the river sounds better and better every fucking day.
ALWAYS have a plan…lol
but seriously, get the extended box, for that little bit of extra room…lol…
once you get the hang of the ‘transcendental state’ that you achieved that one time, it doesn’t really matter WHERE you are… and you COULD be a great dad to your kids… but that requires some RP balls of steel, that does…lol… not kidding…
good luck!
@Blax I think why you’re butting heads so strongly with YaReally on this issue is due to your holistic understanding of relationships. To you all aspects of the relationship, as with game, just naturally hold together and form a living, breathing, vital system. It’s like this: http://www.cruzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/112-fine-art-nude.jpg And then you see YaReally clinically pulling apart the components and you have a reaction of distaste to the dissection: And then he’s talking about putting it all back together again in a new and improved way and you’re picturing this: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/innistradmythos/images/3/38/Stf165_skaabgoliath.jpg Lol I’m kind of kidding with you but to extend the… Read more »
Hmm, does RM throw 3 links into mod these days? Thought it was 4.
Anyways, post in this space soon hopefully.
Scray maybe, but “derive benefit” means what I think it means. And so does “association.” way to get hoisted by your own pedantic petard, hoss. Good job catching the typo [note – if you got a thrill out of this… well it won’t disqualify you from being my copy boy,I value a sharp eye for a cheap wage, but it is a gamma tell… so don’t tell anyone – shhhhh!], thanks. But you can’t understand what this all means with this here… for example —- it used to be that your attention required her to give you sex. the second… Read more »
@Scray, mersonia When you’re banging a girl, you have a relationship with her. When you work a lot with a co-worker, you have a relationship with them. When you go out with a wingman, you have a relationship with him. You derive value from these relationships. Otherwise they would not exist. The benefits you get from a long-term romantic/sexual/reproductive relationship exist. And they come with certain not-inconsiderable costs, which inveigh with particular weight if you do not find ways to contribute longterm value to the other party. If you don’t value the sorts of things you get from that sort… Read more »
“for example, your attention could be the most high value thing ever. the second she doesn’t need to associate with you in a certain way to get it, that association will diminish, decrease, or cease. for example —- it used to be that your attention required her to give you sex. the second that ceases to be true, the frequency of sex will drop precipitously. but even if it is “just be high value,” it is LOW VALUE TO RELY ON ONE WOMAN FOR YOUR SEXUAL NEEDS. no matter how otherwise “high value” you are. Wait-a-minute…this is wrong mostly. http://lh4.ggpht.com/-KRipBujcj4o/VC5nBHINY0I/AAAAAAAABFA/7S0M9cbAXYM/youre-wrong-gif… Read more »
shit. My gif went south above. It’s supposed to be something like this here…
@sentient [note: (comedy routine) After your lispy ACT-U-A-LEEEEEE “error correction” you declare your homosexual love for me and then offer me a job. I’m just not into you like that, mang. you’re funny tho. LJBF. and the concept of “relying on” is different from “choosing to”… yeah bro, fucking ugly fat chicks is alpha too if you CHOOSE TO, right?. Post-menopausal women are IRRELEVANT to the SMP Promising monogamy to a chick IS BETA Too much power ceded to women under the guise of avoidantly spinning plates while simultaneously ego boosting with number and scale… these are the characteristics of… Read more »
Rollo, I hope you’ll do a post on Judgybitch’s latest news bomb post. It goes nicely with this discussion topic.
So very unforeseen [/sarc]
Of the three hypothetic generality examples I referred to a while back on the subject of “self improvement” and RPW, she was the first example that came to mind. “Lookit me!”
@blax Lol, a ” man ” does what ever he likes. THAT’s the key right there. yeah dude we get it. anything is alpha if a man just HAMSTERS THE FUCK out of himself into thinking he’s CHOOSING it for himself, no matter how much it PERFECTLY ALIGNS WITH BETA BEHAVIOR. it’s alpha as fuck to get gangraped by 10 dudes, right blax? if you choose to. right? Nah. lol yeah bro that’s why the frequency of sex increases in committed relationships, marriage, etc. over time right bro? but hey who gives a shit about EMPIRICAL facts when you can… Read more »
Scray Too much power ceded to women under the guise of avoidantly spinning plates while simultaneously ego boosting with number and scale… these are the characteristics of strivers and seekers… of the not yet complete. SOCIAL CONDITIONING TRANSLATION: you gotta settle down someday, JUST CAUSE. well, y’JUST HAFTA. the “not yet complete?” you need a monogamous relationship with a woman to complete you? I thought you could read with comprehension? Just apprehension isn’t cutting it… Complete does not mean what you think because you are only thinking from your scarcity place… i.e. everything about a girl… It ain’t about da… Read more »
@sentient
Complete does not mean what you think because you are only thinking from your scarcity place… i.e. everything about a girl…
It ain’t about da poosy… It’s about what is between your ears being complete.
Fail. Read again. all of it…
no thanks. it’s just a bunch of unaware male hamstering playing at profundity.
what if you’re saying exactly what i think you’re saying but what you’re saying, reduced to its core, is freaking BETA, so you keep layering a bunch of cheeseball neomasculinity-esque silliness over the top?
Scary If that is a rebuttal… well… I guess I thought better of you. Curious how you chose to leave out the “not man up” section all the same… “if you could go out and get a chick to fall for you TONIGHT of equal or greater value than anyone you were with……you simply would not elevate any chick’s status to that level.” No matter, your own words condemn you… IF you can do this here ^^^ and HAVE done it well then you realize it doesn’t matter WHAT you do because you can DO anything YOU want to… WHENEVER… Read more »
@ scray You let me down man. You didn’t answer my question. ” lol yeah bro that’s why the frequency of sex increases in committed relationships, marriage, etc. over time right bro? but hey who gives a shit about EMPIRICAL facts when you can dream up unicorn scenarios.” Lol. THIS is why I asked you if your experience has been as you state. What has your experience been? How much sex did you have over time in your marriage or committed relationship? ” yeah dude we get it. anything is alpha if a man just HAMSTERS THE FUCK out of… Read more »
@sentient Curious how you chose to leave out the “not man up” section all the same… oh because that was the most embarrassing part about it that completely defanged the little rant — I’m not suggesting any course of action, instead, I’m throwing my full support behind male hamstering and this ‘if you choose to’ silliness. No matter, your own words condemn you… IF you can do this here ^^^ and HAVE done it well then you realize it doesn’t matter WHAT you do because you can DO anything YOU want to… WHENEVER you want to… nah, son: All Glory… Read more »