Commenter YaReally dropped an interesting set of videos in last week’s comment thread and I thought I’d riff on them for a bit today. I’m not familiar with Loose Women (the TV show anyway), but from what I gather, it’s on par with The View or any similar mid-day women’s talk show. I don’t make a habit of watching shows dedicated to entertaining women’s need for indignation, but I regularly have readers email or tweet me segments asking for my take on certain aspects of them or how they relate to Red Pill awareness.
It should come as no shock to my readers that shows of this formula are a social manifestation of women’s base natures. Every conversation takes on a sense of seriousness and gravity, but the tone and the presumptuousness that drives these conversations are rooted in women’s solipsism. All iterations of this show are presented from a perspective that assumes a pre-understood feminine primacy. It’s also no coincidence that the rise in popularity of women’s talk shows has paralleled the comfort women have in embracing Hypergamy openly.
Whenever I get a link to something the women on The View discuss it’s almost always a confirmation of some Red Pill principle I’ve covered previously, and in this instance Loose Women doesn’t disappoint. Saira Khan (I apologize for my lack of knowing who she is or why I should care to) related to the panel of women – and the expectedly disproportionate female audience – that at 46 years of age and two children (only one by her husband) she has entered some commonly acknowledged phase where she finds herself lacking all libido for her husband.
I decided to write a full post on these clips because Saira amply demonstrates every facet of the latter phases of maturity I outlined in Preventive Medicine. She begins her self-serving apologetics by prequalifying her previously “fantastic sex life in her younger years” and moves on to her bewilderment over her lack of arousal for her glaringly Beta husband. We’ll get to him later, but she’s a textbook example of a woman in what I termed the Alpha Reinterest phase from Preventive Medicine. Granted, at 46 Saira is experiencing this “stage” a bit later than most women, but we have to consider the difficulty she had in having and adjusting to children later in life – all undoubtedly postponed by her obvious fempowerment mentality and careerism.
I love you, but I’m not in love with you
It’s likely most men in the Red Pill sphere have experienced and discussed this very common trope. Saira is quick to apply a version of this standard self-excusing social convention. She “loves her husband” and “he’s a great man”, but lately(?) she simply has no desire to fuck him. I’m highlighting this because it’s an important part of the psychology and the self-excusing rationales that revolve around the less-than-optimal outcome of women’s dualistic (AF/BB) sexual strategy.
It may serve readers better to review the Preventive Medicine series of posts, but the short version is this: Once a woman has settled on a man for her post-SMV peak life plans, and the routine and regimen of a life less exciting than her Party Years begins to reveal the nature of a (usually Beta) man she settled on, that’s when the subconscious sexual revulsion of him begins. The feral nature of
Hypergamy begins to inform her subconscious understanding of her situation – the man she settled for will never compare to the idealized sexuality of the men she’s been with prior to him. Alpha-qualifying shit tests (fitness tests) naturally follow, but Saira herself describes her sexual revulsion for Steve as a sense of “panic” at the thought of him expecting her to be genuinely sexual with him.
As such, there becomes a psycho-social imperative need to blunt and/or forgive these feelings for the “lack of libido” women experience for their Beta husbands. Thus, we get the now clichéd tropes about how “it’s not you, it’s me” or “I love you, but I’m not in love with you.” Both of which amount to the same message – I love you, but I have no desire to fuck you. You’re a great guy and a swell husband, but my pussy only gets wet for Alpha.
Saira exemplifies this in her assessment of her husband (Steve), but more so, she illustrates the disconnection she knows is necessary to insulate her ego from knowing exactly what’s “wrong” with her. The problem with her lack of libido becomes separated from the source, Steve. So she says it’s not him, she just doesn’t want to do it.
She qualifies herself as someone loveable (she still cuddles and gets comfort from Steve), but this lovable ‘good person’ doesn’t want her lack of arousal to be something to disqualify her from feeling good about herself.
Solution: make sex separate and ancillary to her relationship with her husband.
For women in this phase, sex is equated with a chore. It’s a chore because it’s not something she has a desire to do, but still feels obligated to do. Steve walks through the door at 6 and her subconscious understands that the expectation of her is that she should be aroused by this Beta man she’s trapped into living with for the rest of her life. Hypergamy informs her subconscious and the manifestation is to find ways to avoid sex with a man her Hypergamous sense acknowledges is a suboptimal sexual pairing. Her conscious, emotive, female mind understands that she should want to fuck him, but it wars with her hindbrain that is repulsed by just the imagining of it.
In order to contend with the internal conflict created by Hypergamy, and a woman’s settling on a poor consolidation of it, social conventions had to be created to make separating sexual arousal (Alpha Fucks) from women’s personal worth (Beta Bucks investment) and the attending bad feelings it causes for them.
Ironically, this show’s original premise was based on the question of whether sex was even a “must” on a couple’s wedding night. This is a prime example of separating desireless sex from women’s sense of personal worth. I wrote about this in Separating Values. If sex is ancillary or only an occasional bonus, it ceases to be a deal-breaking factor in marriage for women when they don’t have a desire to fuck their Beta husbands.
Conflating Values
One of the major problems women have, and more than even some red pill men have, is the conflation of sexual market value with their intrinsic personal value as a human being.
It needs to be emphasized that while personal value is influential in sexual market value, SMV is distinct from your value as a human being. I’m stressing this because, in the age Disney Princess empowerment, this conflation of the two has become a go-to social convention; and not just for women.
What Korth suffers from is presuming her personal value is her sexual market value.
It’s disruptive to her self-perceptions and ego-investments when that presumption is challenged by a man who doesn’t want to fuck her for reasons based on the intrinsic value she believes she’s entitled to by virtue of maturity and imaginings of self-sufficiency. Just as women aren’t aroused by men’s own self-concepts of virtuousness and aspirations of higher purpose, men aren’t aroused by whatever ephemeral self-perceptions a woman may have.
In Khan’s case, she (and the many women in the audience who nod in agreement with her) must devalue sex as an article or an object rather than accept that it’s something she wants to engage in, just not with Steve.
There are many other social conventions that aid women in avoiding sex with Beta husbands. An even more common convention is the popularly accepted idioms that “sex just naturally declines after marriage” or “men and women often have mismatched libidos.” Both of these have filtered into our popular consciousness, but they serve the same latent purpose – excusing a lack of desire caused by women interpreting their husband’s lack of Alpha sub-communications. Wives don’t get tingles from Beta husbands, thus, they need to find ways to offset the bad feelings for themselves first, and their husbands secondarily.
The trick in this is women not personalizing their lack of arousal with a husband’s self-worth – “it’s not you, it’s me” – and deferring to some naturally occurring biological or psychological event that can be conveniently attached to the mystique of women.
It’s not you, but it is you
Thus, the rationale morphs from “it’s not you, it’s me” into “it’s not you, it’s the time/circumstance/effort/need for help with the chores/phase of my mysterious woman-ness” that’s causing her lack of sexual desire.” She’s got a busy life, she’s got kids, and in her pursuit of perfection in these arenas, sex somehow falls by the wayside – or at least the kind of non-obligatory, hot, urgent sex she used to enjoy in her fantastic youth. It’s not you, it’s just life.
It’s not you, it’s wives ‘naturally’ lose interest in sex. It’s not you, it’s that she panics at the thought of you expecting her to be aroused by you.
If sex can be delimited to being all about the person then a lack of women’s arousal can’t be blamed on the mechanics of sex. So when men complain about a lack of sex from their wives or a lack of enthusiastic genuine desire, we get the response we hear from the panel of women on the show; a sarcastic shaming of men who raise the issue that their wives are frigid with them.
“Oh, how can men survive without sex?” or a sarcastic “No bloke can be in a relationship without sex” is a deemphasizing of the importance that the role of sex plays in a marriage and any intersexual relationship. Once again this is due to the separating of personal worth of a woman from the sexual mechanics of Hypergamy that prompt her to genuine arousal. The easiest solution is to cast men into the same sexual expectations as women; if women can forego sex then men ought to be able to “survive” without it too.
This normalized idea stems from the equalist perspective that men and women being equal should also share equal attitudes, prompts, and appetites for sex. This is a biological impossibility of course, but the conversation serves as a stark illustration of women expecting feminized men to identify with the feminine and prioritize that identification above any and all considerations about their experiences of being male.
Ultimately this is self-defeating for women because the nature of the Alpha guy that women crave pushes him to have sex, not to deny himself of it.
In fact, that sexual insistence is a prime indicator that a woman is dealing with an Alpha. The man agreeing to the patience and effort needed to “wait out” his wife’s frigidity is indicating that he’s not accustomed to insisting on, and getting what he wants. If he can sublimate his most powerful biological imperative – to get sex – what else is he willing to sublimate?
Sex is the glue that holds relationships together.
The ladies on the panel mock this idea for exactly the same reason Saira is tying herself in knots about not being hot for Steve. He needs sex, but he shouldn’t really need sex because it’s all about the person and not the mechanics. But it is exactly the mechanics of Hypergamy that are at the root of Saira’s need to solipsistically feel better about herself to the extent that she’ll publicly emasculate her husband on national TV.
As the show grinds on, all of the predictable rationales for wive’s self-consolations for a lack of sex get run down like a check list. Kids? Check. Career? Check. Never do they address that she’s a
Never do they address that she’s a 46-year-old woman raising small children or that her so overstressed condition is only one consequence of delaying what passes for motherhood to her for so long. I understand Saira and Steve struggled with infertility, but my guess is that this too was a physical result of the life choices she made and the difficulty of conceiving and carrying a child to term well after her fantastic sexual prime. I’m 48 and my daughter graduated high school this year so I can’t imagine facing parenthood in my mid/late 40s. This isn’t even an afterthought for the panel because it exposes the costs of the feminist-inspired careerism the show is triumphantly based upon.
Shit Tests and Marriage
As I mentioned earlier in this post, wives in this state will still shit test their husbands just as readily as any single woman. We are meant to believe, no we are expressly told, that Saira’s sexual revulsion is “normal” and it’s not Steve or his dedication that’s at issue. Yet during all of Saira’s journey of self-discovery about her lack of libido, she suggests that Steve go out and find a woman who will fuck him. At some stage in their great open communication, Saira gives Steve express permission to go out and bang another woman because she just can’t.
Naturally she couches this in the idea that she’s so devoted to him “as a person” that she just wants him to be happy, however, she is so repulsed by him, sex is a happiness she can’t find within herself to even feign for him. For all the shocked gasps from the women in the audience, what this amounts to is a very visceral shit test for Steve.
The purpose of the ‘dare’ for Saira is meant to determine whether Steve can still (if he ever) generate genuine sexual desire in other women. I’ve covered this dynamic in at least a dozen different posts – women want a man who other men want to be, and other women want to fuck. Steve’s steadfast devotion to his wife is anti-seductive and Saira, on some level of consciousness, knows this. If another woman found Steve attractive enough to bang it would generate Dread, social proof and confirm his preselection among other women. And as I’ve mentioned countless times, breakup sex (or near breakup sex) always trumps contrived, preplanned special occasion “date night” sex, which predictably is the suggestion that ends the second video.
And as I’ve mentioned countless times, breakup sex (or near breakup sex) always trumps contrived, preplanned special occasion “date night” sex, which predictably is the suggestion that ends the second video.
Steve, the dutiful Beta, is also predictably dumbfounded by her “suggestion”. He’s heartbroken from a feminized emotional perspective, but also because, like most Beta men, he’s heavily invested in the fallacy of Relational Equity. He’s observably sexually optionless so it’s a moot point, but if he were to muster up the balls and the Game to take her up on her oh so caring suggestion to fuck another woman, he risks losing the relationship equity he believes his rational, empowered wife should appreciate and factor into her attraction for him.
Thus, Steve comes up with rationalizations for why he didn’t take her up on her offer of permissive infidelity. He makes his necessity (really his optionlessness) a virtue and sticks to the standard Beta wait-it-out supportiveness he’s been conditioned for but is actually the source of his sexless marriage. He defaults to the “open communication” solves everything meme while ignoring the message that the medium of his wife’s sub-communication is telling him. Steve attributes everything (accurately) to his conditioning that most men, “typical blokes”, are Betas whose responsibility ought to be unconditional supportiveness when in fact they really have no other choice but to be so.
She doesn’t want to be ‘fixed’
One last thing occurred to me while I picked these clips apart. At the end, the panel of women defaults to the “it’s not you Steve, you’re a great guy, Saira’s just experiencing a normal frigidity that comes along for women in marriage.” I thought this was interesting because there’s a push to accept this frigidity as a normal phase women experience, but it still relies on the idea that sex and personal worth are two separate aspects of this problem.
If the root of this ‘normal’ problem is one about mechanics (it’s not Steve, it’s Saira’s physical/psychological malfunction) then I would expect there could be a mechanical solution to the problem. Even the fat brunette panelist suggest that all it takes is a better ‘effort’ on Saira’s part to get herself into the mood, but she even rejects this. Her problem isn’t a pharmaceutical one or a behavioral one, it’s a holistic one rooted in hardwired Hypergamy. So repulsive is the thought of fucking a Beta that Saira cannot psych herself up to do so.
I wondered if she would even consider taking the new “pink pill”, the female form of viagra, but I’ve read enough counter argument articles from women about it to know that women’s hardwired psychology prevents them from even chemically altering themselves to want to have sex with a man her Hypergamy cannot accept. My guess is that even a cheeky holiday in the Maldives won’t be enough to convince Saira to want to fuck Steve.
However, this simple fact, that women will refuse to take the Spanish Fly to work themselves up and bypass their Hypergamy for their Beta husband’s happiness, destroys the convention that her frigidity is the result of her biomechanics. She doesn’t want a pill to fix her because she knows it’s a holistic problem.
Saira knows how to please Steve sexually, she simply doesn’t want to, and it’s because Steve is Steve.
@sentient
“and lo and behold… a woman was attracted to your look? But this is dumb luck… or is it attraction?”
And lo and behold…he fucked it up, didn’t even number close. So still, looks don’t get you laid. Most guys who saw culum that night probably assumed he took her home.
@Andy “AFBB is a spectrum isn’t it? Like, I don’t consider myself Alpha really, “ It is OK to label yourself for this purpose as greater beta, lesser alpha like Rollo does for himself. For perspective: The following is a cut and paste from The Blag Flag by Shark: “So what determines what women are attracted to? “A male’s ability to provide resources for offspring was likely signaled less by physical features. This is considered to be due to the most prominent indicator of fertility in women being youth, while the traits in a man that enhance reproductive success are… Read more »
“IF THEY’RE ACTING OUT AND STRESSING THE WHORE SIDE OF THEIR NATURAL INSTINCTS, THEN TREAT THEM LIKE A WHORE. DON’T TRY TO TREAT THEM LIKE A “MATE” OR A “GIRLFRIEND,” LIKE JOE DID TO K.”
Simmer down nah.
You DON’T get it. Treat them all the same…
@Andy
You still don’t get what I said. Looks like you’ll never be able to (or just want to be contrarian, like a lot of the other commenters), so I’ll just leave it at that.
“… you are better looking than you think you are…” I’ve told this story here once before: I was walking down the street and passed a couple, late 20s I’d guess, who were sitting on the stoop (something NYers have) and as I went past the girl turned to the guy and said, “That guy is HOT – and he KNOWS it.” It was, interestingly enough, the first clue I had. I cannot know what women see in men, because I am not a woman. I still have no idea what she saw, only, because she happened to express it… Read more »
Harrison
What is it about autism that makes reading with comprehension so difficult?
Please elaborate.
@SJF You weren’t far off of my intention with my questions… “First of all Yollo’s questions obvious stem from women being masculine/entitled/feminist and self-esteem validating. If women are self validating they feel they have licence to be more masculine (and shoot themselves in the foot with that fact). All relationship game like Saira and Emily (she’s precociously doing it, inappropriately) involves the woman manipulating men into dominating them. It is normal.” But I noticed that in order to “be alpha” it doesn’t just have to do with sub-communicating things like lack of fear or abundance as an intellectual concept, but… Read more »
Or at least reverse-engineer such a thing?
@YaReally, Sentient, Culum…just an update on my dread game example above. Girl I froze out with that simple but effective reframe: “I thought it would be fun to go…but if you’re going to be like that…don’t come” Of course…she came. We hung out. She tried a few times to get a chat about that exchange going. I was totally chill: drinks, dancing, chit chat…hanging out—a normal night out that she happened to be at. Next night invited her over, banged her brains out. Not once was there any mention of the drama she’d created. If I knew THEN..what I know… Read more »
SJF – I guess you like the way this Shark guy puts it? Good – he pretty much gets it 100% right. It’s been what I have been saying all along here, along with alot of invitations to discuss the implications of this mindset (like the consideration of other people’s mindset, right down to the core “spark” element ……. the self-agency element, such consideration as implied is a natural element of the masculine mindset as espoused by Shark). SJF – If you like the way this Shark guy puts it, then my advice to you would be to drop the… Read more »
@The Man
Deida and Donovan are snapshots in the evolution of this thing. There’s people trying to make money off of it talking to people trying to get laid off of it.
You fall into that spectrum somewhere as well. How’s THAT for an implication?
@Yollo Comanche – you’ve seen the CH post from a couple of years ago which actually had a video clip of a homeless dude who picks up lots of girls right? I think YaReally commented a lot on that thread too. And I’ve personally seen a homeless guy approach a HB8 and engage her for 10 minutes (she refused when he tried to number close but they were chatting for 10 minutes – I was about 10 feet away). I’ve posted the story here before. It happens. I won’t say it’s common or anything but it can happen and occasionally… Read more »
“How does a homeless man with no job get a woman to want to fuck him for fun? How does he make her think OTHER women wanna fuck him for fun? Even if she can tell from a mile away I’m “no good” or have no utility value, I want to know what to try on her.”
@Yollo
You would like this video. The whole series of live streams is awesome actually.
https://youtu.be/BwvDTKNyBSI?t=8m41s
Damn I really need to read Nancy Friday’s stuff….
Yollo: “Deida and Donovan are snapshots in the evolution of this thing. There’s people trying to make money off of it talking to people trying to get laid off of it. You fall into that spectrum somewhere as well. How’s THAT for an implication?” What you said is a bit hard to follow, but I think you mean that, ……in the end, each person is just trying to do the best the can wrt to the circumstances they find themselves in, …. yes? If you mean that – then yes I fall into that spectrum somewhere as well, as we… Read more »
@Yollo “First of all Yollo’s questions obvious stem from women being masculine/entitled/feminist and self-esteem validating. If women are self validating they feel they have licence to be more masculine (and shoot themselves in the foot with that fact). All relationship game like Saira and Emily (she’s precociously doing it, inappropriately) involves the woman manipulating men into dominating them. It is normal.” But I noticed that in order to “be alpha” it doesn’t just have to do with sub-communicating things like lack of fear or abundance as an intellectual concept, but to also have the ability to produce the evidence of… Read more »
@SJF ‘obligation sex’ = “She is viscerally disgusted with all her brain, not just her hind brain that actually likes sex. Desire sex is her wanting to have sex and not use it to control.” “So desire sex from the partner is simply “she wants it” and once she get’s it. Desire sex is when she thanks you for fucking her (overtly or covertly–radiance thereafter) because she enjoyed it. She wasn’t viscerally disgusted by the fact that she had to. ” this…lol… i think this is what the ‘betas get sex’ side are missing in their analysis… ‘obligation sex’ is… Read more »
@bromeo “Funny how every time I come to comments section I see YaReally going on about how PUA is be-all end -all.” Wrt picking up hot young women, yea PUA IS the be all end all. If you want to get better at, and more confident in, interacting with hot young women, you have to practice and consciously work to improve at interacting with hot young women… i.e. PUA “To be a well rounded masculine male there needs to be a balance in activities in your life and acquiring traits from all these sources to be build at stronger core.”… Read more »
“Donovan should go deeper to see what within the human “spark” underpins the wish for the more nebulous notions like honor.”
The wish not to have your ass kicked and your body left on the savannah to become hyena shit.
kfg: You quoted: “Donovan should go deeper to see what within the human “spark” underpins the wish for the more nebulous notions like honor.” Then you said: “The wish not to have your ass kicked and your body left on the savannah to become hyena shit.” Yes ….. but go even deeper. You gotta be trusting your savannah buddies to ensure you don’t become hyena shit – right? What underpins the “trust”? But we’ve already well talked about this and we both know where this is going – do you have anything new to add to this contentious discussion that… Read more »
@Bromeo If you carefully reread the section of mine you quoted you’ll note that I have not dismissed PUA in any form. Just the opposite, I noted their principles as essential to the success in the endeavor of turning a former Blue Pill into an Alpha that is sexually fluent and capable of exemplifying both Survival Viability as well as Preselection. “Funny how every time I come to comments section I see YaReally going on about how PUA is be-all end -all. To be a well rounded masculine male there needs to be a balance in activities in your life… Read more »
@habd
“this…lol… i think this is what the ‘betas get sex’ side are missing in their analysis… ‘obligation sex’ is what you get in a beta relationship… ask me how i know…”
wtf are you talking about, I explicitly said they get “beta sex” instead of “alpha sex” about a zillion times
What underpins the “trust”?
What kind of softball question is that?
Honor among men. And that trust is meritocratic.
” – just consider irl consequences that are available to anyone to see for themselves in immediacy.”
Getting your ass kicked and your body left on the savannah to become hyena shit.
MacDonald notes that the trust you speak of isn’t a feature of humanity and actually only occurred among a relatively limited number of people, living in a relatively small geographical area.
For people who earned it.
@The Man “Trust is contingent on mutual respect.” Incorrect. Trust is multi-dimensional. Where Respect=Fear, If I don’t fear you, you must be of benefit to me in order for you and I to continue to be able to depend upon the continued viability of our association. If a definition cannot account for ALL. Then it is logically false instead of true. There are many assumptions people make unconsciously when making associations. The ability to take the risk of making an association is not the same as the voluntary choice to do so. My savanna buddies and I go way back,… Read more »
@N1 “Start flirting and things are going well, she’s proactive, mentions she’s had three ex-boyfriends, happily single for a year and “sometimes gets angry and treats men bady”, in a sweet way (lol). Tease her a lot on this. “ one word for all that shit: baggage. Teasing is good, but in most circumstances these days, teasing is like me giving value to her by protecting her from reality. Like if I were to go ‘awww, who hurt you?’ and play with her…. …and shit, unless she’s a bad bitch, I’m mostly going to just raise my eyebrow and look… Read more »
kfg: “MacDonald notes that the trust you speak of isn’t a feature of humanity and actually only occurred among a relatively limited number of people, living in a relatively small geographical area. For people who earned it.” I already took the time to explain to you some time ago that MacDonald has some interesting ideas wrt meritocracy begetting the egalitarian, but then furthermore explained to you precisely where I parted ways wrt his thinking (i.e. – by MacDonald’s own rationale, this dynamic will be a trait, or a constellation of traits, apparent in all human populations, due to the application… Read more »
@scary, N1, U2 “she flaked. you didn’t connect with her, brah. she was willing to give you a chance and you kind of blew it. this is tough…she was probably a marginal case and so your game and everything would have swayed her to the ‘will fuck’ box.” not my read of the FR, which is she was sport flirting to get some guy jealous, as per: “occaisional extended eye-contact but I can’t hone in the lasers” try to remember how she was deflecting thus you had no chance, except as Plan B if the other guy later blew up… Read more »
@culum @yareally @habd Okay, so here’s how I am understanding the whole texting deal. Basically, you need x value to get a girl to want to go out with you. If you do over the top, 10-20min RSD game on a chick, you already have value. So, all you really have to do is just text the meetup and she’ll go. But if you have a more chill, shorter, 2-5min convo, you generally won’t have quite enough value. So you have to escalate through text a bit, THEN go for setting up the meetup. But still keep texts short —… Read more »
not my read of the FR, which is she was sport flirting to get some guy jealous, as per: that’s possible, but this is why I said she was a marginal case. she was a ‘maybe.’ Maybes can be in the process of doing anything, and there can be many reasons why they’re a maybe. so sure, sport flirting…w/e it doesn’t matter. i’ve hooked up with girls who originally were just trying to talk to me to make other guys jealous. and then they forget the other guy altogether. so me and you disagree only wrt you saying he had… Read more »
@scary
“it doesn’t matter. i’ve hooked up with girls who originally were just trying to talk to me to make other guys jealous. and then they forget the other guy altogether.”
there are three guys there (the guys that dragged her away) including the jealous confronting guy, what could possibly go wrong?
reading these situations wrong is not healthy
and yes, friend her on FB so the three guys can connect if she branch swings
@having a bad day
“June 22nd, 2016 at 10:24 am
@SJF
‘obligation sex’ =” …
HABD – this post gave me goosebumps and teared up my eyes. So true, having lived it too, and so, so sad about the whole duty sex thing. I feel entirely justified blowing up a 28yo relationship and now chasing 18-20 year-olds. No guilt for me.
Yollo – I can’t follow your argument. I really don’t know what you are trying to say. I’m not sure but I think you might be insinuating respect is about dominance and submission, and therefore you might be failing to consider the possibility that a middle ground can also exit I can’t be sure if I am interpreting you correctly, but I am so wondering because you featured fear, or lack thereof as a primary element within your definition of respect, whereas I think fear may be present or not, within mutual respect dynamics, and is actually therefore somewhat besides… Read more »
@YaReally Spergy Game analysis requested: What’s a solid response to “I need to have a drink first” after asking a girl to dance? I assume that she is shit testing at that point. Saying that you’re not visually appealing to her. “Shit, I knew I should have plucked my nose and ear hair and put on makeup and deodorant. Maybe I should have showered, too.” “After a closer look, I could use a couple of beers myself.” Or maybe switch to a neg…”Lovely shoes…I wore a pair just like them to [some gay event] last year.” All done with a… Read more »
Upon what is trust contingent? Trust is contingent upon two parties assuming biologically-specified roles: a man leads and a woman follows, typically.
A woman who tries to lead and a man who tries to follow aren’t trustworthy.
so I’m in a rougher than average bar, after midnight, and my friend, a good fighter, has gone out for air. I see a girl, ask her to dance, go back to her table, there’s another girl, and two guys, who I ignore. 10 minutes later I have two girls very interested in me, and two guys very upset with me. I bail. Outside my bodyguard is in bad shape, since for fun he called a group of guys a certain name and there was a short bit of fun. So if the two guys I HAD MADE UPSET had… Read more »
@YaReally, I just think you are arguing with guys who keep using the “but some betas get laid a ton, look at Steve” are guys who sit in the basement, and are not out there in the field. If you ever want to be Steve, you literally should be on another forum, its the “well one hottie is better than none” which is the essence of scarcity. These guys are afraid of their own shadow, the potential rejection, so they fight it at every turn and make it seem like, “well, I cant beg for pussy, that’s silly”. Game is… Read more »
@The Trusting Man: ” . . . offer something new and cogent to this particular topic . . .”
I am working with the material supplied. Metaphysician heal theyself.
@Craiger247
there is nobody here who wants to be Steve. If you think there is look for phrases like “deadbedroom”, “divorce rape”, and “beta sex” and process what they mean
P.S. The Out of Africa bottleneck occurred circa 70,000 years ago and consisted of only 100 to 300 individuals; and that’s why all non-Africans are so alike you can hardly tell them apart.
SJF – I have some more thoughts on your comment: “What underpins the “trust”? What kind of softball question is that? Honor among men. And that trust is meritocratic.” Perhaps you are doing this: manly honor = meritocratic => allows for trust. OK – I would not prescribe to manly honor = meritocratic for the reasons I have already outlined, but perhaps you are trying to hi-light trust as being contingent on judgements around merit,….. which of course is a valid consideration within the overall trust dynamic. However, we humans all naturally break down trust into these two elements: 1)… Read more »
@redlight ” I see a girl, ask her to dance, go back to her table, there’s another girl, and two guys, WHO I IGNORE, 10 minutes later I have two girls very interested in me, and two guys very upset with me.” Gee, I wonder why they were upset. Give value to the other guys, give them other girls, win them over. Same reason a girl friend will pull your target away from you if you ignore her. Also if the girls liked you as much as you say, the guys wouldn’t have done anything to you, because they don’t… Read more »
@scray, redlight, yareally She would hold eye contact for maybe 5-7 seconds at a time, but she was completely ignoring her friends, not looking at them (in fact I had no idea she was with anyone else until they approached). I thought we were well into C1 and she immediately ditched her friends to come and see the fight when I re-approached (big compliance test). She was not reciprocating kino probably due to nervousness of her friends (not uncomfortable though) and I wasn’t worried about really extended eye-contact because in the location I’m in I’ve closed without any. She hasn’t… Read more »
@Harrison B
of course I never made that mistake again, but spot the other mistakes you didn’t have lessons for, as I made more than one
kfg – I recall some studies that mentioned 6 population bottlenecks, each of fewer than 10,000 individuals, most of which occurred within Africa, prior to 70,000 year ago. When I get some time, I’ll look for that stuff again. Metaphysician heal thyself. Hey man – I’m trying …… but it is more like ontologician heal thyself, in my case (the metaphysicians tend to make themselves sick over staring at the unknowable too intently – been there, done that already …. I wouldn’t recommend it actually) I do think I have something to offer others around the ontology ….. I ‘m… Read more »
@redlight @habd “this…lol… i think this is what the ‘betas get sex’ side are missing in their analysis… ‘obligation sex’ is what you get in a beta relationship… ask me how i know…” wtf are you talking about, I explicitly said they get “beta sex” instead of “alpha sex” about a zillion times my bad…lol… i just skimmed…lol… not quite sure what the ‘discussion’ is ACTUALLY about then…lol… bc except for some of the hyperbole, i agree with most of what you say… i do have a quibble though… So betas get beta sex from post-wall women, during the period… Read more »
“I recall some studies that mentioned 6 population bottlenecks, each of fewer than 10,000 individuals . . .”
A couple of them went down to under 3000. The Out of Africa migration was a synthetic bottleneck, isolating the migrants from the rest of sapiens. The point being that 70,000 years and 200 individuals is sufficient time and numbers to produce all the genetic variation to be found outside of Africa.
New environments act as an evolution accelerator.
@habd “for me the dead bedroom started right after the honeymoon/commitment (we moved in together)… but kicked up a notch into a ‘zombie’ version of dating sex when trying to have kids…lol… bc TIMING is everything = no fun… this is ALL business…lol…” I use the technical definition for deadbedroom which is 10 times or less in a year (a BJ or HJ counts as “time”). The more the beta is locked in, the less beta sex they get, because she only gives him “just enough” to keep him from escaping. Thus once you are married, even during the honeymoon,… Read more »
@culum @yareally @habd Was at a deli. Went there at night, saw a 6 black, was going to pratcice working on girls at work then, but there was another girl (coworker) with her and so just didn’t approach. Mistake, I’ve found. Went back in morning. Same two girls were there. Other one was not bad either, 6 blakc, but just more traditionally balck. Other is lighter skinned, taller, more model like. So just opened on bakery items. How their day was. Very recptive. Then went to check on any discounts I had on my account. Said none. Wanted to see… Read more »
asd “Upon what is trust contingent? Trust is contingent upon two parties assuming biologically-specified roles: a man leads and a woman follows, typically.” For the man/woman thing – yes – at the overt. Then at the covert …… the woman is often bending the man’s mind, and if their interests are aligned, and they are otherwise partaking of shared mutual respect so as to allow for trust, he may well be somewhat conscious of this “mind-bending” and willingly accept her influence so offered. I think some men are more unconscious around this dynamic, and for such a man, when he… Read more »
@redlight The more the beta is locked in, the less beta sex they get, because she only gives him “just enough” to keep him from escaping. that tracks with my experience… the more committed i was, the less sex i got… i DID get more validation though…lol…so, i had that going for me… which was nice…lol… I use the technical definition for deadbedroom which is 10 times or less in a year (a BJ or HJ counts as “time”). bj or hj could have counted as 3!…lol… and i STILL would have been under the 10 for the year…lol… but… Read more »
And, damn, that’s a thing I’ve noticed. So many white girls are just BITCHY. Like they hate to be hit on for some reason. Prolly, more acurate, is that they hate that they like to be hit on. Prettier white girls tend to be more fun, but anything under a 7 is dangerous territory lol. I’m sure blax is going to school me on this, but in my experience so far black girls LOVE to be hit on. That doesn’t mean they’ll just jump on your dick lol, but I’ve found any kind of fun, teasing, flirty, sexual vibe they… Read more »
If one states “betas don’t get laid”, then if a beta comes here and is not yet in deadbedroom, he thinks “I’m not a beta since I get laid regular” and leaves without reading all the posts and Rollo’s books. Then it’s deadbedroom, divorce rape, and red pill triage. So if Steve-5 years arrives here, he goes this is not for me, and 5 years later we get Steve. So “betas don’t get laid” does a disservice to beta men. Now if one wants to claim that betas will not get laid 40 years from now, who cares, could be… Read more »
Hypothetical: An Alpha PUA Games and seduces 12 women in one month who enthusiastically fuck him and pursue him for more. An Omega MGTOW hires and fucks 12 different escorts in a month who fuck him with some convincing enthusiasm. A Beta husband manages to plead his case well enough to get his wife to give him lackluster starfish duty-sex 12 times in a month. Is the frequency of sex the metric by which we judge the character of the man or the perspective women apply to him? Don’t get hung up on frequency. I know enough men who’d gladly… Read more »
OK – On the trust thing, I see now that I erred by way of excluding an important element. Here is the correction:
– trust is contingent on mutual respect (which in turn is contingent on self-respect) as well as on an alignment of interests
@Hank: “. . . asian girls are SUUUPPPEER reserved . . . but I think its mostly just that they tend to hide the attraction more On his first tour of England, David Brenner was bombing, playing to completely silent audiences. He got so depressed that one night he decided that this would be his last show, he would cancel the rest of the tour and go home. That night, after the show, a women came up to him backstage and said, “Mr. Brenner, I just want you to know that you’re the funniest man I’ve ever seen. You were… Read more »
@Rollo “Is the frequency of sex the metric by which we judge the character of the man or the perspective women apply to him? Don’t get hung up on frequency. I know enough men who’d gladly trade 12 lays with their otherwise deadbedroom wives for 1 intense sexual experience with a woman who displayed genuine desire and sexual adventurousness” The guy I described earlier in the comments, the perfume 40s number close, at the time of doing that close, was married to a hb8 sweetie and they had two kids. He was getting genuine desire and sexual adventurous all the… Read more »
This is a difficult question that needs an external viewpoint
Susan Walsh, how important is the perspective women apply to a man in judging the character of the man?
Massive post for the day enjoy lol: @Culum Struan “Like I get this can sound bizarre or unrealistic to guys who didn’t grow up so awkward around women (I was a virgin till 24) – even to me now it’s hard to recognize myself as I am now in these examples, but believe me, they happened.” Happened to me too. Happens to SO MANY guys. I’m watching it happen all around me. And as this generation gets more and more reliant on TEXTING instead of FACE TO FACE INTERACTION, are the guys going to get BETTER at interacting with women… Read more »
@hadb @culum @yareally whooo. tl:dr i got malls to be normal to me. they are like bars t me now where they are perfectly normal to open in and talk to people. feels natural now. Before I went back to mall, ate dinner. saw 5 indian girl. thought to open. ends up she knows this blakc guy next to him. hit him “you asshole,. you didn’t tell me he had a girlfriend!” complete 180 from sweet girl to like . . . regular girl nowadays I guess. crazy how quickly she changed. Anyway, met this guy (not blakc guy) at… Read more »
@Rollo Thought provoking question.Women may judge character as happy self confidence. Buying it may help confidence as I can afford to pay,with no repurcussion,but the subcom of do I have an std? or was she faking it is a sure fail. Obligation starfish sex does nothing for a mans happiness or confidence. Even if it is frequent. If the wife lets herself go,the man has to gigelo up and fake it just to keep her happy,leaving him feeling used like the whore. At these rates,a good hot lay where both parties are interested even once a month is better,for both… Read more »
@YaReally
So be fun and positive? I already do this sort of stuff with my brother but I get scared of the girls. This positivity is free and says all the right things. I will try this from now on sensei and I’ll use my singing voice too. I have one of those as well.
@Yollo We hit the bar bout 9:30 fri,karioki night,my friend introduced me to this 30yo italian chick by the back door table there were three women at this table good iois.Never done it before and most of the tunes were new,I can sing Johnny Cash right so this gal talked me into Going down to Jackson,we were a hit,I couldn’t even get to the head without getting pulled by a mom and her daughter out for a bd party ,it’s Johnny cash sing w/ my daughter,first time ever for me fn crazy great party till close. Good night out can’t… Read more »
@yollo don’t start on girls. does your brother have friends? hang out with them, and work with your brother to bring out that positive vibe. then go out to bars, stores, malls — wherever you are most comfortble — and bring that vibe with male strangers. Then, later, move on to girls to bring that positive vibe with. If you want to jump off a 15 foot cliff, what;s easier to have the guts to do? Just jumping off the 15 foot cliff, or jumping off a 5 foot cliff, then 7, then 9, then 11, then 15? Small steps… Read more »
“Is the frequency of sex the metric by which we judge the character of the man or the perspective women apply to him?” Imo, neither. Both are externalities wrt his character. I think a man’s character is based on the confidence he can bring to bear wrt his convictions – said convictions on which the abstract notion of his person integrity is formed. If the man has ironclad confidence, he will almost always act in accordance with his personal convictions (as long as he also possesses the forbearance to properly manage his storehouse of masculine exuberant aggressiveness and does not… Read more »
@Stuffin
That puts a smile on my face. I will hit the karaoke this week.
@hank
I’ll ask my bro about his friends. We will work on that positive vibe.
@The Man
Ultimately Rollo calls upon each man to judge the rest of us for himself. He merely suggests the differing sex types as an additional metric, FI notwithstanding.
Yollo – true about Rollo allowing for other considerations for judging or valuing oneself, outside of the SMV, but nevertheless: ““Is the frequency of sex the metric by which we judge the character of the man or the perspective women apply to him?” implies male valuation, by way of the FI, even if this is still limited to SMV. My point is that – I don’t think women actually judge male SMV as such. I think their female judgement for what has been termed AF here, is more subliminal, organic and spontaneous, and better aligns with the hallmarks of the… Read more »
@The Man
Why are you off your meds? Have you considered electro-convulsive therapy? It worked great for Robert Pirsig and he actually spun a believable tale about not being crazy. It’s hard to tell if what he lectured on was a real thing or just plain psychotic, but it was incredibly inspiring. Your ruminations are incredibly energy draining. Over on MRP reddit they would say: “You are a faggot.” Do you even read Rollo, bro?
Alright junior – what didn’t you quite understand this time?
@the man
it’s not what he didn’t understand, it’s what he didn’t want to understand
since, if one admits that YaReally’s primary focus in life is pre-wall pussy, and that Rollo implied “male valuation, by way of the FI”, then the FI has won, it’s over, put us all on meds and back in the matrix
I am hitting the gym today, can’t wait more. No more ignorance.
You kill it Mr.Rollo, I am glad to find your blog man!
@hank holiday – great field reports dude. Doing something almost everyday and posting about it really helps – the consistency and the reflection you get from doing each FR is really good for you even if you don’t necessarily get detailed breakdowns of each FR.
I just finished reading through this entire thread and it’s remarkable how much it is clear that you’ve improved just in the last few weeks – even in the last couple of weeks.
You’ll be having those orgies sooner than you think.
PS – hank you have no idea how big a deal it is to “normalize” chatting to everyone the way you’ve done. I’m pretty decent at sexualizing but that kind of opening and chatting is a barrier for me and most guys learning this (hence my big focus on cold approach when I do my July Going Out Blitz).
@hank holiday
Check out these recent videos from Julien and Luke, you’re already applying a lot of what they talk about…approaching everybody, offering value, merging sets forward, etc. Maybe there are some insights you can glean from them though.
https://youtu.be/9cRrk6q12ck
https://youtu.be/UclFpsaw76o
Also watch Luke’s previous video where he breaks down a student’s infield (daygame, mall in Vegas) where he offers great advice about leading a day game set.
Your last FR was amazing, brought a tear to my eye, keep it up man!
@The Man I don’t understand any of your thinking out loud and Redlight nailed it, I don’t want to. I do my best not to feed your troll spam. Let me be overt: You are wasting time, a most valuable masculine asset. You basically just admitted yesterday you don’t know “your mission in life”. And judgemental me has contempt for that in an INTJ way. Fuck off and stop wasting my time. You think you are going to invent a new paradigm? A lot of wise people have thought a lot of things before we came along today. And then… Read more »
SJF – alright …….. it’s probably high-time time to let you in on the obvious. The way you respond to other commenters here, and comment in general, betrays an unmistakable narcissistic signature. I noticed this about you very early on, and this comment signature of yours is so strong, I wonder if you are actually subject to some sort of narcissistic personality disorder. There is more than one variety of that type of the thing, probably based within different etiologies. My advice to you – go look that stuff up and try to sort out a thing or two for… Read more »
LMMFAO….. narcissistic disorder indeed.
Me too, or whatever. I’LL pass on looking it up though because… you know..myself defined and all that.
Narcissistic disorder. That’s rich.
I mowed the lawn this morning because I suffer from a mild case of grass centric heightism.
Amateur diagnosis. It’s what’s for lunch.
Hey Blax – just a point of order here – I didn’t say “Blax” – I said “SJF”. And you got a point, wrt SJF – it is rich …. richly deserved, that’s my perception, I wouldn’t have said it otherwise, and it is not something I am putting forward lightly, in jest or something, or without considering for a long time – I’m straight up serious about it. If you beg to differ wrt SJF – well OK then, of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but that isn’t gonna change my mind about what I have… Read more »
@ Teh Man…lol
I know that you weren’t addressing me directly, but what you said about SJF pretty much applies to me as well.
Ergo, since I’m positive that I don’t suffer from narcissistic blah blah, then neither does he.
But the projection is always a point of amusement.
Carry on.
Blax – no I didn’t notice that about you. Of course we all betray some narcissistic signature here (it is the nature of blogspot forums to allow this aspect of people to shine through). Every blogspot forum has a different flavor as to how much of this aspect of ourselves is appropriate. After joining in, after a short while, everybody knows what is to be expected in that regards, at that particular blogspot forum. If the consensus is that there is a whole alot of that to be expected (like CH about a year ago for instance), then the subtext… Read more »
@The Man
Go outside
@The Man With respect to @SJF, @Blax and others, you’re confusing narcissism with a ‘Solid Frame’ ™ Please internalize that it’s not that we don’t understand you, we understand perfectly… We just DON’T agree with you. You keep saying the same thing over and over, expecting a different response from us. Before casually throwing out diagnosis to others, maybe a look in the mirror and a healthy does of introspection would be in order Regardless, you’re not convincing anybody, so give it a rest. It’s possible that in another venue your thoughts and opinions would be better received. Feel free… Read more »
@The man
Sjf narcissistic probably not,preppy bitch maybe.Country club this and that kma.
If I have a narcissistic personality disorder, I want more of that shit. And I’d like a side dish of psychopathy and Machiavellian-ism with it too. Hell yeah I’m self centered and judgmental. What you call NPD is merely my intuitive and judging traits. It’s totally normal for an INTJ. (and you can’t fix normal) All INTJ’S are like that. But most hide it under social graces better than I do. A paradox to most observers, INTJs are able to live by glaring contradictions that nonetheless make perfect sense – at least from a purely rational perspective. For example, INTJs… Read more »
CNM – yes I get your point, wrt frame. The thing is SJF has very weak frame. He is very much in the business of seeking validation here, and he seems to get very pissed off when he doesn’t receive it. He has time and again interjected in such a way that belies an outlook that he sees things as much more about him, than is actually intended by anyone. He seems to take alot of the rational discussion here as personal assaults or affronts (and I know we can’t be thin-skinned in the rational battle of give and take,… Read more »
@ya ‘but I approach them in a way where I’m giving the ‘ yeah that’s why I said it can be cool. Like you have to do it in a way that makes her wanting to fuck you a good idea lol. Like your way is good. You can also frame as more like people try to suppress their true ‘animal’ natures blurred lines style, which also works….. It CAN be done, but it’s just a thing where you have to know what you’re doing. The darkness is good, I just have it beneath the surface. A lot of my… Read more »
@harrison bergeron @culum @habd @yareally really, stuff pertains to all you guys, but listed names next to who I was specifically commenting to. @harrison bergeron Yeah, watched vids, do most of that, but good review and to hone in on important points. Things like: 1)view whole venue as one big set (which is lol in a mall, but I sort of do that already and think I will do more of that later on) 2)open everyone You’ll eventually run into hot girls. HOWEVER, on a lot of venues I go and on weekdays, YOU DO have to hunt down hot… Read more »
@hank “Again, could be wrong, but black girls that I’ve run into have been on the whole just more real and more fun than other girls (esp whites).” black chicks tend to give a harder time up front but an easier time down the road. white chicks it’s the opposite. plus, i think you may not realize what’s going on here. you’re a white guy right? k so, let’s say on average a white 6 gives you a hard time. well, a black 6 will probably not give you as hard of a time because (for better or worse) being… Read more »
Deja vu all over again, I wander off for a while and when I come back: softek is agonizing over his GF, after every man here has told him what to do for the last, what, year? Wild Person is now The Person and still clueless. Various men are having “this many on a pinhead!” fights with YaReally. But. Blaximus had A Talk with a god-daughter, and in that convo we find this: K: No, he’s wonderful. It’s me. I don’t have a stable job or career, I haven’t finished my degree, I don’t have anything to offer him because… Read more »
@ hank I’ma jump in real quick. Black girls. I know a little bit here. Lol. Depending on where you are at, black girls will react basically the same with just a few minor tweaks here and there. In what we here in America euphemistically call ” lower class ” areas ( love that term..) the hue of your skin does not confer status in any real measure. At worst in may raise suspicion, but not status. What you will be judged on in these locales is your game, confidence and how fun you appear to be. It’s about the… Read more »
“The standard path is . . .”
. . . the basic scenario of most adventure novels written for young men before WWI.
If buttercups buzz’d after the bee,
If boats were on land, churches on sea,
If ponies rode men and if grass ate the cows,
And cats should be chased into holes by the mouse,
If the mamas sold their babies
To the gypsies for half a crown;
If summer were spring and the other way round,
Then all the world would be upside down.
redlight
Susan Walsh, how important is the perspective women apply to a man in judging the character of the man?
Why would you ask anything of an aging, 2nd stage feminist?
@scray @blax will take more experimenting. but so far, I get the SAME reaction from ALL black chicks. Its probably partially from me being super white and balck girls not being used to such a reaction from white dudes, esp like me Its prolly partially that I am sick of being around so many white chicks, so I get unconsiously more . . . i dunno . . . not enthusiactic around them, whereas blakc girls I’m like . . . whoohoo variety. and some may be jungle fever lol but i’m just reporting on what i see in field.… Read more »
@ AR
Hey. It’s good to see you’re around.
@anon “Why would you ask anything of an aging, 2nd stage feminist?” Rollo was looking for a woman’s perspective “this many on a pinhead!” fights with YaReally. actually we were first arguing about the size of the pinhead then Ya was going to realize, he had no field knowledge! so he would put a profile on OkStupid, “well-educated never-married mid-thirties businessman-executive looking for soul-mate” (take-away: showing his willingness to hyphenate his last name if married) he would get 300 to 400 messages from post-wall women (“I never knew how desperate they were” he would report later) he would pick one,… Read more »
Carp of the Day:
@)culum @yareally @habd @fuck, all pua guys Was going to stay in today, but, fuck ,def extroverted. Stopped by work. Lol, instantly get hit up by customer “Oh hey man hank, whats up” talk to him for bit. later see another person. looks like a movie star. tell him this. chat a bit. “So what do you do when you aren’t impersonating a movie star?” Instant giggles from my boss and she glances at me real quick. Does mechanic stuff “oh so you like dead lift volkswagons and shit.” again, giggles and glance from boss. Just noticing this shit more.… Read more »
@hank thanks for the invite @N1 I know YaReally said to perhaps DQ yourself then day2 take her to Dairy Queen but how much time? Instead if no return kino or eye lock, try what this crazy motherfucker suggests: Try walking away from a girl who’s talking to you mid-sentence sometime. Like don’t say anything or pretend to see a friend across the room or anything, just literally go from staring at her making eye-contact while she talks, to just walking away and getting a drink or whatever and standing elsewhere or making small-talk with someone else. It’s almost guaranteed… Read more »
LeeLee – “I see this a little differently. I think what she’s experiencing is the start of menopause.. her estrogen levels are crashing and her libido is *naturally* crashing with it.” Sure its possible this Saira woman is getting perimenopausal, but for me a key piece of her story was not in the original article posting, but was posted by someone else a couple of pages in. It was the links to her body/gym transformation. Dozens of photos she’s had taken that cover her journey from slightly chunky middle age wife to trimmed up crossfit milf. That recent aspect to… Read more »
@samlam
wrt champagne chick (failed comedian) can you guess why she is discussing sci-fi now?
wrt wrt thanks man, neat
@redlight “so he would put a profile on OkStupid, “well-educated never-married mid-thirties businessman-executive looking for soul-mate” (take-away: showing his willingness to hyphenate his last name if married)” “you can see why we are so frustrated with him” The fuck are you talking about dude? “and he would find out that the fish jump right into the boat” How many times do I have to repeat this: I’m talking about a trend that’s starting to pick up steam, in the upcoming generation of women and the effects that’ll happen in the next 20-40 years as the 80/20 becomes 90/10. Not OLD… Read more »