A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
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@SJF Man, I don’t talk race stuff normally. I make it a mission not to. 90% of the time when confronted by some measure of fuckery, I keep it moving. Then there’s the 10% that I don’t. I used to go to Roosh’s and CH’s blogs because there was some good stuff there. I overlooked the racist crap for the most part ( especially with CH because he was a brilliant writer/idiot savant…lol ) but whenever I made the mistake of wandering into the comment section, good God. They talk more stupid shit than I thought was humanly possible by… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Camaro et al – Remember he said she’s an HB8.5. I know what it’s like to have a hot wife and to walk away from that isn’t easy. Especially when she’s begging you to stay, blowing you and fucking your brains out and putting on lingerie etc. My ex did the most amazing 180 once I put my foot down on her awful treatment of me – but she did not hit me. That is a red line for me, due to the abuse I suffered as a child. A few questions: – Is the hottest women you’ve ever fucked?… Read more »

Camarowoes@gmail.com
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I’ve read every link each one of you have shared with me. Thank you. I’ve had 31 partners in my 30 yrs on earth. My current wife really is the most attractive I’ve ever been with, she’s also educated and is about to enter med school to be a pa, though she keeps putting it off for different excuses. She’s crazy in bed and initiates sex constantly. I would rate my wife an honest 8.5-9. The next hottest girl ive been with was probably a 8 and she was very crazy, a liar and cheater, crazy outbursts and such, but… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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@Blaximus My argument is that the American broad who got clipped in Italy has exposed herself to increased danger by getting involved with an African migrant. She increased her chances of getting raped / killed / infected (both by venereal diseases and other types), because migrants from Africa and the Middle East are statistically more likely to commit such acts than the Italian men who lived around her. Simple as that. If you really dig diversity and know many Senegalese men, supposedly all of whom are in good health, that’s great. But none of that is a reason for me… Read more »

SJF
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@ Camaro,

Since you are new here and have read all the links thrown your way, and based on what you just said, this link is indispensable:

http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/29/a-new-hope/

Unless you feel that real power is possible in this relationship (and even then that might be an illusion), you know what you need to do.

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

Camarowoes@gmail.com
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Yes she is the hottest I’ve ever got and yes the fear of never getting another as hot as her is a fear. I thought I was a lucky guy until I started having anxiety attacks due to months of hellish stress and lack of sleep. Now I’m just drained and she’s trying to make me feel guilty about giving up on our marriage. I gotta get the divorce papers tomorrow, I’ll schedule a free class to fill them out. I’m going to appear strong through this to her, but inside I’m a wreck. I’ve read the bpd link Rollo… Read more »

Blaximus
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@Hoellenhundz2 I don’t get the impression that anything is taboo here. I engaged in some of the MGTOW talk because it was interesting conversation. I didn’t take anything as ” shitting ” on anyone, but there were/are strong disagreements, and that led to men hashing it out. Am I wrong? Was the discussion too harsh in some fashion? As for Race Realism… well, you can imagine that I have strong opinions there. I wouldn’t ever have the subject banned or otherwise negated, but from my viewpoint, I personally get tired of the subject popping up consistently in my every day… Read more »

SJF
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At hoellen-scheisse-hound, It is well understood that there are no taboo subjects here. But imagine you were at a Thanksgiving table (but….maybe you don’t know what that is like…… It is pretty powerful stuff….), or a dinner party anywhere, where there was a group sitting at the table that had their “family way” of thinking and behaving and being respectful of the group. And you proceeded to be a dick to all of them. You really want to continue the conversation that nobody else wants to have? Rollo is well spoken on diversity in his professional dealings during his career.… Read more »

corypheus
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Reminds me a bit of the confusion/despair of the original Existentialists.

scribblerg
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@Hollen – You argue like a 10 yr old girl. MGTOWs are welcome here. If they start yapping about how we are all pussy beggars and controlled by women, I tell them to go fuck themselves. Race realism is horseshit and basically a whitewashing of ignorance, hate and bigotry which has no place in a civil setting. Period. Dot. End of sentence. Why? Three reasons primarily: 1. Any serious study of race and how humans vary by race shows there is more variation within races than between races. On every count – IQ included. This alone makes the idea that… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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Fair enough. This is my last comment as well on this topic. I’m no redneck, but I’m a race realist, and will always be one.

keyser Soze
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@Blax read this. https://newrepublic.com/article/122117/why-are-white-racists-always-called-white-trash

Ps,
Ignorant Roosh thinks his last name is : Hatfields, and his Mother’s name is : Fatima Mccoy.

Jeremy
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My favorite anti-racism thought is that, in reality, I have more perspective in common with black men, than I do with white women. A black man has the same burden of performance I do, the same biological needs I do. No woman knows these things.

In reality, I should feel far more kinship talking with men of any race, than with women of any kind.

Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.

Blaximus
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@ Jeremy-

Cosign 100%

stuffinbox
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If we could just figure out away for a woman to wake up in the morning and scratch her balls i think this would solve a lot of problems.

SJF
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“Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.” Pareto Principle. 80% of people are the masses. Only 20% of people can deal with diversity. For the top 20% it is No Big Deal to have diversity and inclusion as is the nature of The United States of America and the melting pot as described by Scribbler above. The bottom 80% of dumb-shits ruin the narrative. I frankly grew up in a non-diverse community forever and when I hit the diverse population in a certain segment of my life… Read more »

bob bitchin
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@camaro: best of luck. I met a bpd/npd chick last spring. I quickly determined she was nuts. NEXT. This from a guy who had no decent role models.except.a grandfather 4k km away! Needless to say its been a long hard slog for me. I’ve had to figure out most of the important things in life by myself. No help. My brother topped himself. My other brother, a cousin, is trapped in the blue pill. I hardly see him. What I’ve consistently seen in myself is a greater and greater ability to roll with the punches, maintain frame and make solid… Read more »

SJF
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“If we could just figure out away for a woman to wake up in the morning and scratch her balls i think this would solve a lot of problems.” Nein. The masculine is what it is the is the feminine is what it is. Embrace Polarity and seek equilibrium, not equalism, and the complementary nature will function just fine. You do not want women to be logical and equal to men. There are not problems that are not understandable in red pill awareness, only solutions. Solutions with Game. Lower your hurdles by your mindset. Stoicism solves the high hurdle frustration.… Read more »

Jeremy
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The problem with “diversity” is that what is shoved down people’s throats, the notion that “diversity” is some form of strength.. well, that’s a lie. There is no historical record of a culturally diverse body of people surviving together long-term. Culture, shared values, these are what binds people together and creates trust between strangers. You can’t have a strong society without trust between strangers. Racial diversity is not the problem, should never be the problem. The problem is that every person who will preach about diversity to you will also try to convince you that any standardized or primary “culture”… Read more »

Weebler
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Totally unrelated, but you MUST check this out Rollo!!!! Check out this example of the first man to use technology to make game obsolete!!!!!!!!!!! A twitter account I happened to stumble upon: https://twitter.com/DaddyCammyBo This guy’s methods are simple. Go all around twitter looking for the hottest girls, making sure they’re attention whores and thus most likely promiscuous from their account activity. Tell them to send you nudes or GTFO. Tell them to send you nudes holding up your name in the picture. Tell them to send you money. I’d estimate 1 out of 100 actually do. Then you hope some… Read more »

SJF
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BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men. The problem as Heartiste explains is that the relationship is best exited as your ball sack runs dry. Which is generally for most guys at nine months. Your mileage may vary. (…..depends on your red pill ball-sack qualitative dimensions….. Blue pill and all bets are off). A guy has to know his limitations. Four years is generally too long, but I thank my lucky stars that it spurred Rollo to new heights over his next twenty years. Rollo could have never been so great without having had that fucked… Read more »

rugby11
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SJF
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Heheh, Rugby

Dualistic Strategies? Where have we heard that tune before?

“The study’s co-author, Prof Robert Foley, is marginally more optimistic about the human condition: “I’ve no doubt it is in our biology to be aggressive and lethal, just as it is to be deeply caring and loving. A lot of what we understand about human evolutionary biology suggests these are two sides of the same coin.””

Two sides of the same coin? Try two different coins.

And where have we heard that you can’t tell shit from a few ancient skulls before? That Evo-psych and behavioral psychology can be over-ridden by Neomasculinity?

http://www.returnofkings.com/74334/the-incomplete-and-flawed-history-of-the-human-species

Facepalm?

Roused
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@Camaro Your story is fucking awful to hear about. Holy shit you’ve gotten yourself into a bad situation. You obviously know you need to make a break….but it ain’t easy is it? Hardest part is probably the thought of losing the hot sex. The others, especially Rollo and Scribbler were exactly right. Go back and read again what they wrote. Most likely all the guys that wrote comments to you have some experience with what you’re going through. I’ve known too closely myself as well as a good friend how women like your wife will escalate and never stop. You… Read more »

gregg
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Knowledge abut women is one of the best things man can have. He was conditioned as a slave by his very parents, buddies, society, etc. Time to wake up! He can be a master now! Benevolent or malevolent one, it is up to him to decide, but the master nonethelessr. Women are GREAT servants..and terrible masters. Very first thing to master – not take them too seriously. All guys who control women – be it a pimp, womanizer, or others heve one trait in common – do not take women so seriously. They know that women are here for their… Read more »

gregg
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sorry, not Red pill but “Positive masculinity”

Positive masculinity:

Spin plates – enjoy realtive freedom for a time (red pill)…AND then marry, and perform for the wife so that SHE is satisfied and gives you sex once in a month. You must perform, be confident and apply dread game, plus milion things from the list, otherwise you can loose your very wife and you loose the privilege to fuck SINGLE aging woman for the rest of your life (Blue pill to the fucking core!)

Niko Choski (@nikochoski)
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@Camaro Take this from a healthcare professional too. BPD (borderline personality disorder) which is what it sounds like you are dealing with, will take you down a path of self hate if you happen to allow her frame to win over, and it looks like you are well down that path. You are to expect more physical and psychological abuse from her as her primary objective is your attention. No matter how much you give, no matter how good you are, she will never be happy. And when you do try to get rid of her expect the attention seeking… Read more »

Andy
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“BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men. ”

Quite frankly, I find this offensive.

IAS
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@YaReally: I’m having a go at some of the basic material you recommended here http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/comment-page-8/#comment-135870 My goal is to apply Game to my wife (this is a bit tricky for a beginner as I think it takes some level of mastery to see the bigger picture and translate the fundamentals of “Night game” to an LTR). I am watching the Liam Mcrae vid right now and I have a specific question. When he is demonstrating eye contact he has an assistant which blinks, and often takes a few seconds with the eyelids down when blinking. What does this mean? It… Read more »

Scribblerg
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@Niko – re: Your vid. A couple of points: What you struggle to describe about how feminism is inculcated in schools and society is much better and more completely described via Rollo’s concept of the “Feminine Inmperative”. Your comment on male ingroup preferences flies in the face of the known science. In fact men display very little ingroup preference, especially when compared to that of women. Some googling will reveal this. Particularly funny was the NPR treatment of the grounbreaking study which revealed it – female ingroup preferences were okay as they were a reaction to oppression. Neglected were the… Read more »

SJF
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“Quite frankly, I find this offensive.” Well, I keep forgetting Pareto Principle. Good for 20% of the guys that know to get out before their ball sack runs dry (gen. 9 to 12 months). You know, the hot sex and Antifragility of it all. Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind? It sucks. But the next day in sunny peacefully calm weather, the round of golf is pretty sweet by comparison. That happened to me once and on the sunny calm day, I shot… Read more »

Andy
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“Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind?”

Keep digging.

SJF
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I rest my case on the “Like” button. You see how, in a masculine pissing match (Like Andy’s mirroring effect-heh, Law #44) it would serve no purpose? A like button without a dislike button would feminize the situation instead of letting the men play out their cards in discussion. I’ve seen it happen on forums before.

Forge the Sky
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@Andy I don’t disagree. I mean, I don’t feel offended; I don’t think SJF is not very susceptible to the to the sort of emotional lifewreck a BPD can pull on some men, so from his perspective it’s just ‘well whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.’ A BPD woman is a very real and present danger for certain men. They are parasites who will cause a man to suck the life out of himself for her. She is a master manipulator of male emotions – using every mechanism in the male brain available to keep his focus and priority… Read more »

YaReally
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@IAS “It is confusing for me because it looks sexy, but strictly speaking it is an eye shielding behavior, which I think are usually IODs (think covering your eyes with your hand, or even outright turning your back on someone / something as archetype eye shielding behaviors).” It’s attraction/seduction. Google “slow blink attracted” for a bunch on it. If she was looking away from him or something then it could be an IOD, but if she’s still looking at him it’s some bambi eyes shit lol Pay attention to how proximity adds to the tension, watch the Richard Laruina vid… Read more »

IAS
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@Scribblerg: I’m pretty sure most men also have strong ingroup preferences. Politics was rife with it before women were allowed in and you and Blaximus were just discussing how a bunch of men are racist in CH’s comment section. I’m very skeptical of any study that shows men have “very little” ingroup preferences, it runs against many of my own observations in many different contexts and it would take very solid proof to convince me of its absence. I’m inclined to believe women have even more ingroup preference though, but if that was your point it wasn’t clear to me.… Read more »

YaReally
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Video of Camaro’s wife and future daughter (when you take her iphone away etc) going viral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdoQ_H4ODLI This girl will never change her ways because why would she? If she were a little dude he would’ve been knocked the fuck out the second he raised his fists. But this chick is going to face zero consequences. Even if she was charged society will paint her as the victim and she’ll just write it off as “that guy was a faggot or something” and continue being her sparkling shining self. @Camaro you wanna raise one of these for 18 years? ’cause… Read more »

Andy
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“I keep a BPD chick around just for the practice of learning to handle them.”

If anyone could handle it, it would be you. But, IMO even you are playing with fire man.

http://wfla.com/2016/01/20/mother-of-chance-walsh-sentenced-to-25-years-in-prison/

http://www.northjersey.com/news/n-y-woman-sentenced-to-two-life-terms-in-river-edge-double-murder-1.1406156

http://www.dearzachary.com/

YaReally
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(this is also why I walk past crying girls on bar nights lol I have buddies who will see that crying drunk girl sitting on the curb and try to play white knight and find out what’s wrong and help them but I just walk on past like they don’t exist ’cause it’s not worth the potential hassle. If I saw that chick who froze to death I would just close my blinds and maybe call 911 to mention her but I wouldn’t engage her or invite her in to warm up…if she’s walking around in the cold wasted and… Read more »

YaReally
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@Camaro
Another video of your future:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPoO08IMog

Also record EVERYTHING. Any interaction that starts to escalate, get your phone out and hit record even if all you can get is audio. And any time you plan to have a conversation that COULD escalate, like telling her you want a divorce or telling her her behavior is unacceptable (lol like she cares) etc, set up the camera to record or keep it on you and record audio at the least. The jurors are gonna wanna see that stuff when she accuses you of beating her etc

Andy
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“A BPD woman is a very real and present danger for certain men. ”

Dude, they murder BABIES! lol, Jesus. I think I have a post in Mod with links, but just go to google news and search for “borderline personality murder” Every fucking day these chicks are killing their boyfriends and children. Stay The Fuck AWAY.

SJF
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“But like I say, I wouldn’t recommend that shit to anyone. I have enough abundance that I can peace out on this one at any time with no fucks given and no looking back. Most guys aren’t in that situation.” I’ll cop to being inarticulate enough to not fully express my ideas at times. I’m working on that. ” BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men.” should have had articulated “after they exit the relationship and screw their head back on straight and then move on down the road a bit”. Interestingly, I even said this… Read more »

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@SJF – Let me take a simple stab at this. If you are self-possessed enough a man to not get sucked into a BPD woman’s madness, the phase where she goes sexually maniacal can be fun for a man who enjoys wild monkey-sex. I’ve always run from the crazies, mostly as an adaptive response to my abuse as a kid that came out of therapy. I evaluate women and when I detect the deep crazy, I exit. But I have done short stints with a couple of women who were probably BPD and their insane sexual appetites were fun. It… Read more »

redlight
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I keep a BPD chick around just for the practice of learning to handle them. Some nice little <25yo at the bar who throws a little shit-test is child's play after having the BPD chick test my frame like crazy. I literally keep this chick around to keep my frame tight.

This is like the Walking Dead’s Michonne and her pet walkers

YaReally
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@Andy “Dude, they murder BABIES!” Also that. But don’t worry, we’ll excuse them with “it’s just postpartum depression” or a million other excuses and let them off the hook. Once again I put forth the notion that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (a growing trend where babies just mysteriously stop breathing and nobody is concerned about this, no autopsy or doctor can narrow down what’s mysteriously happening where babies just stop breathing and this isn’t viewed as some kind of plague crisis or some shit) is just chicks who regret having their kid or panic about the actual long-term realities of… Read more »

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@redlight “This is like the Walking Dead’s Michonne and her pet walkers” lol btw her (female of course) therapist has convinced her it’s HEALTHY for couples to fight and that couples who don’t fight are hiding something. Which she’s taken to mean “just make shit up to fight about all the time”. She gets off on fucking after a fight, of course. But in this day and age where there are ZERO consequences for her taking it too far, it’s too risky a gamble to get involved with. @SJF “My friend is frequently identified as on par with the most… Read more »

Andy
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“They’re not just dumb white trash crazy bitches off Jerry Springer that do this stuff.”

Also, they can have a VERY normal, and actually quite personable and charming facade. Which is why they can manipulate therapists, judges, juries, anyone really. Like, personally I think even @YaReally is fucking crazy for associating with one. And I’m a huge fanboi.

You can end up DEAD.

YaReally
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@Andy “Also, they can have a VERY normal, and actually quite personable and charming facade. Which is why they can manipulate therapists, judges, juries, anyone really. Like, personally I think even @YaReally is fucking crazy for associating with one. And I’m a huge fanboi.” Oh it’s 100% a bad idea. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. But I also very thoroughly understand the risks etc and have taken precautions so that she can’t affect my actual life. She’s in another part of the country so 99% of it is just text stuff. If we were in the same city it… Read more »

Andy
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@YaReally

Be CAREFUL man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Zachary_Turner

“On 4 November 2001, Turner made a total of three phone calls to Bagby’s residence in Latrobe. At approximately 1:00 p.m. local time, Turner embarked on a sixteen hour, 1,523 kilometre (946 mile) drive to Latrobe with her gun and ammunition inside a gun box in her Toyota Rav4. In the early morning of 5 November 2001, she confronted Bagby at his residence, “

SJF
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“Your friend is an anomaly with the resources to survive a BPD chick. 99.999999% of guys will be FUCKED for life from it.” “You can end up DEAD.” “Oh it’s 100% a bad idea. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. But I also very thoroughly understand the risks etc….” “Let me take a simple stab at this. If you are self-possessed enough a man to not get sucked into a BPD woman’s madness, the phase where she goes sexually maniacal can be fun for a man who enjoys wild monkey-sex.” “I don’t think SJF is not very susceptible to the… Read more »

Dutchman
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@YaReally “Once again I put forth the notion that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (a growing trend where babies just mysteriously stop breathing and nobody is concerned about this, no autopsy or doctor can narrow down what’s mysteriously happening where babies just stop breathing and this isn’t viewed as some kind of plague crisis or some shit) is just chicks who regret having their kid or panic about the actual long-term realities of how hard raising a kid will be, holding a pillow over their face in the middle of the night as they make an emotional decision in the moment,… Read more »

having a bad day
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@YaReally re that vid with the red sweater girl… holy shit, that was hot!…lol… it looks like she’s just a bundle of sex wrapped around a hindbrain in search of an alpha stud…lol…looks likes she would have been fine with that guy dragging her out of the car and raping her on the hood…lol…(and he could have…except for social ramifications of course…like prison…lol) it looks just like ‘foreplay’…wrapped up in a giant shit test…lol… her mating “cues”: 1:25 – preen… 1:36 – as he ‘pushes back’ as he leans into the car… she gets a tingle…(watch her leg…lol) 1:42 –… Read more »

Dutchman
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@SJF

“(And thanks to the gay guy couple with a black adopted child next door that moved in for the schools, the assessed value of our homes is sky high.)”

How does that work lol?

Jeremy
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@YaReally

The internet justice page on the uber chick is pretty funny. Nice sarcasm thrown her way on her instagram page before she deleted it.

http://www.dailybrit.co.uk/all/internet-justice-for-anjali-n-ramkissoon/2/

Dutchman
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Re: the Uber chick… I just wonder, with everything that is known about game, what was the BEST thing the dude could have done to get her to stop acting that way so he didn’t go to jail or some shit when the cops showed up and she made up some crazy story? Should he have just acted like it was a cute tantrum she was throwing to get his attention, completely ignored the way she was acting and told her something like “If you’re a good girl and wait for me here, we’ll do X tomorrow.”

SJF
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Dutch, Two really nice gay guys have a black adopted child just short of first grade. They were in a suburban location with mediocre schools. So they choose a house right next to us. Because our school district is quite good and they were willing to pay top dollar before first grade started last fall. I was kind of annoyed. The neighbor wives and my wife and daughter thought that that would be “cute” to have some gay guys next door (because of MSM it is axiomatic that gay men are better than masculine hetero men). I see no benefit… Read more »

AvidReader
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“Men are upset that the Blue Pill is a lie because if true, it would allow lower value men to still have desire sex.” False statement. Upsetting is the realization that “being a man” has different meaning for men and women. And realization that to get laid you need to cultivate qualities of what would be considered qualities of a lesser man by any historical masculine measure. And realization that a neurotic wrack with weak impulse control has much higher chances to get laid than a man with strength and composure. Ultimate Blue Pill Ideal is not a society of… Read more »

Dutchman
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@SJF

Awesome that it played out that way.

Roused
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Crazy:
http://www.fox9.com/news/51676845-story

More crazy:
http://news.sky.com/story/1512405/mother-jailed-for-suffocating-eight-babies

Good luck finding any stats correlating SIDS with murder. Then again see above links. The babies don’t have to die in their crib, some perps are more creative in their psychotic break.

Roused
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SJF wrote: “I was kind of annoyed. The neighbor wives and my wife and daughter thought that that would be “cute” to have some gay guys next door (because of MSM it is axiomatic that gay men are better than masculine hetero men). I see no benefit to that for me. I’d rather a smoking hot, hetero- BPD chick that wants to cuckold her husband move in next door. Or at least be eye candy.” LMFAO! Sure, a hottie next door instead of gay guys could also be endless supply of soft dread material. BPD women are like crack for… Read more »

SJF
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“SJF, so do you now have to prove you are more masculine than the gay guys? Are they openly flamers? Burden of performance?” They are totally normal appearing and acting and seem like wonderful parents. No drama whatsoever. No competition, my wife is her normal nice self to them. I’m normal to them. The first time I met the one guy I called him the wrong name by accident the next time I said hi. By accident. By his reaction, I know to do that on purpose in the future. He was tense and it was an accidental neg. Also… Read more »

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kfg
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@Avid Reader: http://therationalmale.com/tag/apex-fallacy/

The majority of men in the Spartan empire were not even citizens and its fall has been blamed on the social power accorded to its women.

” . . . a man with strength and composure.”

Is what a member of the ruling class wishes as properties of his indentured laborer.

” . . . a neurotic wrack with weak impulse control . . .”

A thumbnail description of Adonis, who was also portrayed as a metro-sexual, skinny fat girly man.

Softek
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I think the girl I’ve been with has BPD. Very difficult coming out of 12-13+ whatever years incel, feeling like I finally got out and now being ensnared. I don’t feel like I can do this anymore. It’s a major mindfuck because I have no prior relationship experience. I have nothing to compare it to. What’s worse is I feel like my whole perception of sex has been distorted. I was at least somewhat optimistic about Game and being able to have sex/relationships as a normal part of my life. Now I just feel like I don’t want to have… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Dutchman the Uber chick… I just wonder, with everything that is known about game, what was the BEST thing the dude could have done to get her to stop acting that way so he didn’t go to jail or some shit when the cops showed up and she made up some crazy story? Game can’t save women from themselves. That woman chose to be belligerent. Doing what she wanted (give her a ride) just surrenders to her. Trying to charm her after she’s physically escalated and chosen to assault you is like jumping into a pig sty. At that point… Read more »

kfg
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@Softek: ” I gave up on some other girls I was gaming out of guilt . . .”

And that is why you are where you are. What advice have you universally received here?

Don’t commit to this girl.
Spin plates.
Fuck other girls.

Snap the fuck out of it and do it.

Then next the bitch.

Andy
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“Then next the bitch.”

Very carefully.

Roused
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“Also one time he came to the door to ask if it was OK to put up a slip-n-slide for the son on the property line during the hot summer. I was in the library in my boxer shorts and intentionally answered the door that way-in my underwear.”

Another round of LMFAO. Hilarious shit.

Need some levity with the dark BPD stuff.

YaReally
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While we’re on the subject of guys having their Blue Pill reality obliterated, here’s a suuuuper oldschool video from like the pre-The Game days (thus the potato quality). Loverboy, an asian PUA made this to help inspire other guys who get into PUA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV9dYk49nEw

All you gotta do is go out and take control of your life.

kfg
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@Andy: Indeed. There is no safe way to ditch a psycho, but the safest way I’ve found is to go complete supplicating wuss and let her monkey swing to some other poor bastard.

Then go complete no contact.

Andy
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@kfg

Yep, I got so good at manipulating mine that I convinced her it was her idea then lathered her up about being the best gf ever, and such a good person, etc, etc… lol. She was so delusional she believed it. One month later texts me that she was raped… Two months later threatens suicide if I don’t help her move. lol.

What SJF says is right, as long as you make it out alive. Still, not something we should be advocating or joking about IMO.

Dragonfly
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Softek, I would never try to hurt you after reading your stuff off and on for maybe over a year now, but I read your comment to my husband to try to get his perspective and he said,

“Stop thinking with your fuckin dick and get the fuck out.

Think with the head on your shoulders, not the one between your legs.”

You men are so hard on each other… women would never say that.

mersonia
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You men are so hard on each other… women would never say that.

Men aren’t women

SJF
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I’m not trying to hog bandwidth. Well maybe I am. And I’ll joke about it for sure because these are good illustrative cases for game. They prove the points. I would like to point out that if you Really listen to what YaReally and everybody else is saying about game, it is mindset, mindset, mindset. In regards to mentors, BPD chicks (danger, danger, Will Robinson….), financial matters, chainsaws, white gay neighbors with a black child (nothing wrong with that), losing out on the hot monkey-sex, adverse golf conditions………ETC. It is all about your mindset. You can choose to think any… Read more »

scray
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@all http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmrfwnNGlQ1qby36ho1_400.gif TBP, TRP, whatever rule set you can think of really doesn’t matter that much.The power comes from whoever is making the rules, not the rules themselves. Naturals spout TBP shit all the time and still slay effortlessly. Why? They have such a strong inner core and frame that it doesn’t matter. TRP helps a lot of guys because at the very least, if they follow those rules very literally and don’t deviate, they will have more success than if they did the same with TBP. it’s like training wheels in a lot of ways. it’s like ‘ya, the… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Whoever posted about Antifragile and Nassim Taleb – is it as good as his previous books? I read reviews saying it wasn’t great and never read it but his earlier books (Fooled By Randomness and Black Swan) made a huge impact on how I thought about the world in my twenties. In particular, his obsession with empiricism – just a fancy way of saying you need to observe how the world actually works and how things happen and then develop theories based off of that instead of having a theory and forcing facts to fit your theories. At the time… Read more »

redlight
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There is no safe way to ditch a psycho, but the safest way I’ve found is to go complete supplicating wuss and let her monkey swing to some other poor bastard. Then go complete no contact. Slight change. Supplication risks becoming a beta orbiter (less sex, same drama). Instead become a self-absorbed wuss. Fail all shit tests and whine constantly about yourself. Her: Where should we go for dinner? You: I don’t know. I can’t decide anything anymore. I can’t figure out if I should buy white or brown bread. I mean one is better for you, I think, but… Read more »

kfg
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@Redlight: My strategy was bicameral. That sort of spineless indecision is embedded in the wuss part. Basically, invert normal game. Everything you aren’t supposed to do because it makes women gag and clamp their legs shut – do that. ” . . . risks becoming a beta orbiter . . .” The end game is critical. As soon she as finds her new sucker (and see Rollo’s comments about BPD’s cuckolding their marks. She will find another mark); NO contact! And “no” means NO. If you’re lucky, a BPD will no contact you, they don’t treat exes as other women… Read more »

kfg
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Addendum:

But if you’re already in too deep you may have no option but to run for it. That can utterly destroy your life, but at least it leaves you alive to regain your sanity and rebuild it.

Have a go bag.
Have a safe house.

3. . .2. . .1 . . .Go! may be all the time you get to get out.

And then NO.FUCKING.CONTACT.

SJF
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@Culum Struan

Don’t call me whoever.

Antifragile is excellent. The reviewers that gave it bad reviews couldn’t read. The author has an odd style of rambling and jumping around with thoughts. In a genius kind of way

Definitely great on Stoicism and Game mindset. Like I mentioned, Julian from RSD and I believe Tyler mention it in their videos on mindset.

Andy
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“And then NO.FUCKING.CONTACT.”

I port all my old phone numbers over to google voice when I change them. The BPD I dated still sends me a happy birthday text every year. A DECADE LATER… LOL. Fucking CREEEEPY… I still would not be surprised if she murdered my family some day. But you know. Live on the edge! Date a BPD!

Forge the Sky
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I was curious and started digging up research on sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). I wrote like a thousand words steelmanning the position that maybe a lot more mothers are asphyxiating their children than most people would be prepared to expect, but I deleted it because it was super boring to someone not involved in research. So, the Spark Notes: -SIDS really really looks like asphyxiation in about 80% of cases. This is non-controversial; the debate is how the asphyxiation happens. -Theories about babies turning facedown, getting caught in a position they can’t breath, etc. may account for some of… Read more »

kfg
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Given the right conditions “nurturing” mothers kill their own across the animal kingdom. Some of them even eat them.

Sun Wukong
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@Andy Live on the edge! Date a BPD! Been there, done that. She’s trying to send me the scarf. No really, apparently she knitted me one after I felt I could learn nothing more from bothering with her and ghosted. Wants to send me the shit. I want nothing more to do with her. They’re good Frame practice for a while, then they just become annoying, then straight up dangerous. If you value your life, you stop before dangerous. @Softek You know man, I am not a guy with abundance mentality by any stretch. I can’t find any place where… Read more »

YaReally
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@Camaro @all Here comes a big one, enjoy lol: BTW we call them Cluster-B girls rather than just BPD because there’s a bunch of disorders or whatever involved and generally the nuances of which parts and pieces she has don’t matter much…it’s all a barrel of crazy that guys should run away from lol DISCLAIMER: None of the following is implying in any way that any guy, especially one IN one of these relationships, should attempt to learn how to handle these girls…you can’t learn to tame a lion when it’s already gnawing your leg off. GTFO and stay away… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@SJF – haha. Thank you – I’m downloading it now. I didn’t mind his writing style in his previous books so it should be fine. Incidentally I have seen him speak live and he comes across exactly as self-important and pompous as you’d expect with that writing style, but the content is great.

digireaper
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Reading Rollo’s post and most of the comments here, has made me think in how I unplugged. I really never had a traumatic moment in my life like most commenters here that had horrible marriages, dead bedrooms, divorce raped, BPD girlfriends, etc. I never had a girlfriend with little to no interaction with women, I was mostly a social recluse who barely went out and spent most of his time jacking off everyday to porn. I just saw how fucked up the brony community was when I was into that shit, after that I gravitated to MRA stuff, then I… Read more »

redlight
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@yareally

WTF, no video links?

“I’m not going to be ignored”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JS6Gw6NVgRg

scray
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“So in the end a LOT of them get bitten hard or get sucked into a BPD situation trying to fix the situation in a “happy wife, happy life” way because of their Blue Pill beliefs.” ya they lose their frame. happens all the time. Brad PItt has the strength to just say ‘fuck off’ to whoever steps outside his reality. naturals can do this…like, if their girlfriend is a BPD slore they can summon up some TBP ‘i guess the devil has her now’ shit as an excuse to X her out of their life….but ya, many of them… Read more »

Culum Struan
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YaReally et al. The SIDS business is very interesting. Just for the psychology of it. I don’t think anyone will dispute that SOME percentage of it mothers killing their babies in a moment of craziness. And no one will dispute that there are probably some babies who do just naturally die of unknown causes. But we don’t know the breakdown and the “5% are killed by mothers” thing seems like it isn’t a solid figure (like how do you identify them anyway? From what I can tell there’s no medical way to tell the difference). But what really interests me… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Digireaper – good work for going out and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. Nights like that happen to all of us, especially at the start (and even later on – just that it becomes less frequent). The main thing is that you keep going out and pushing your comfort zone. Having a wingman (if you can get one) will really help your state. As will having a specific ritual to put you into a good social mood before going out (some music you like or whatever). And especially if you’re solo try to get out of your shell… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Culum Yeah, I scanned a bunch of research and it all does sound suspiciously like a bunch of minds desperately trying to not come to an unthinkable conclusion. I doubt SIDS deaths are all murders. But the 5% figure, like I said above, was very poorly thought through and backed up, and yet that’s the number they cite unquestioningly. The one account that tried to account for methodology in finding that number basically assumed that you could measure it by looking at families wherein multiple children died from SIDS. They thought that meant that the parents were more likely to… Read more »

kfg
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“I don’t think anyone will dispute that SOME percentage of it mothers killing their babies in a moment of craziness.”

I would dispute that it’s craziness, never mind a “moment” of it. I think most of them are quite sane and know exactly what they are doing. Any apparently crazy behaviour isn’t related to the act itself, but to the legal ramifications of it.

Andy
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“That said, for the sake of the knowledge-base of how human psychology and shit works:”

@YaReally

You should get some sort of lifetime achievement award. lol.

How would you break up with her? Make it her fault? or feed her ego?

Culum Struan
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@Forge the Sky – not professionally, but I have an amateur’s interest to the extent that I read about stuff like how big pharma companies rig drug trials and drug studies and how they manipulate doctors to prescribe and stuff like that. So I know a bit about it and I agree.

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