A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
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And in the sidebar of the Uber Girl story:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/01/21/mother-given-25-years-in-prison-after-baby-found-buried-in-backyard/

She was convicted of aggravated manslaughter because . . . she cut a deal to give state’s evidence of second degree murder against the father.

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I think that Dragonflys comment shows in this instance she is the one letting her dick do her thinking for her,and then she spouts it off.Don’t realy know her but maybe she is better off letting his little head think for her big one and then just be quiet about it.Just sayin.

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YaReally and gang – Quick FR – first night last night from January Going Out Week. Had a long day – date with an online girl (29, HB7-7.5, petite redhead). Said she wanted an “alpha male in and out of the bedroom” in her profile. Won’t bother with details except to say I had to go out later so only planned it as a quick drink, not to take her home. I wanted to focus mainly on lasering, voice tonality and sexualizing and leading the interaction (as opposed to trying for the kiss etc) and it worked really well. She… Read more »

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@ Culum, If that is a “quick” FR, then a long one would be a men’s novel. You wrote it pretty well. My proof is that even though I am having sex almost every day with my pretty good looking wife, I am getting cabin fever just reading it. Separately, Re: BPD women, I have either been lucky, or somehow wired with defensive alarms. I dated a hot blonde who was a high paid sales rep at a high tech firm about 18 years ago (I was about 30) and after letting me feel her up on an all day… Read more »

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@Culum Good FR. By my standards, FANTASTIC date. I have to step up my game a lot before I can really dissect/critique that sort of thing. Sounds like the bang was basically in the bag, barring logistics. Your descriptions brought to mind two memories/corroborations. First, I remember kinda stroking a girl I was seeing a bit, then I pulled her in for a hug just as she was about to pull away. The result was that I jerked her toward me with sudden force. She immediately went red and her voice got husky as she cuddled in and said ‘Woah.’… Read more »

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Thank you for the blog post and the comments. I am new to this forum and The Ratonal Male, and am mostly through it. I see the points, the value and how I have played or been the AFC all of my life. Through recent therapy and separation I see the points, but now that I am trying to keep my relationship together (yes, an AFC move) because I remember how it was, and still suffer from white knight syndrome, is there a method or mindset that will allow an AFC to move towards more assertive, more Alpha behavior without… Read more »

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@Monty, I am about 1 year ahead of you and also in a 14 y marriage with 3 kids. I don’t know if I would describe myself as a former afc because I was also a go my own way type of guy, but I certainly was not kicking ass and enjoying all life has to offer. Yes, I believe you can, and most of the same concepts apply, plus some others. Since Rollo’s is also married with kid, he can and does relate often. However, for those of us who have to repair and re-establish dominance and our own… Read more »

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Sorry for typos; working from phone. This routine was inspired by SJF’s story about his gay neighbors. 2-set. Cute blondes, both 7.5 or so. Got some basic background on both; one of them has been married for a year to ‘Jeff,’ has two big dogs; the other is single. Me: [grabs married girl’s left hand] ‘Give me your ring.’ Married girl (MG): No! [slaps my hand] Me (I’m standing close enough to hit her w my shoulder if I sway side to side): I’m married to Jeff now. We’re going to adopt an African baby, just like in the TV… Read more »

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Actually, I’m definitely choking on logistics. It’s obvious in hindsight. I’ve been watching Julien’s PIMP, and one of the videos is called ‘the rhythm of the night’ or something like that and the basic point is that you can get girls as attracted as you like and you still won’t bang them if you don’t isolate/escalate at a point in the night where they’re looking to get fucked. Unless you’re really good/lucky. I’ve been trying to pull girls when they don’t want to be pulled, or when they would be judged for it. Ain’t gonna work. I have some girls… Read more »

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Iron Rule of Tomassi #5 NEVER allow a woman to be in control of the birth. http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/06/professional-mothers/ http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/01/22/louis-tomlinson-shopping-video-baby-birth/ He did it! Louis Tomlinson made to to Los Angeles in time for the birth of his first child, a son born on the evening of Jan. 21. He’s been spotted out for the first time since his baby’s arrival and he looks positively beaming as a new papa! Congrats are in store for Louis Tomlinson, 24, and Briana Jungwirth, as she delivered a healthy baby boy. While the two aren’t a couple and barely even dated, they still plan on being… Read more »

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This BPD narrative here fits in better for the western setup. Where I live a girl just cant trash a guy’s car like that. She will end up with a hot iron rod up her ass. Are you guys telling me I have to stop screwing feisty girls? When a girl gets feisty she is asking for a hard fucking. And she doesn’t want a relationship with you either. Why I know this is because she will cut out only to reach out to you later when the pussy itch strikes again.

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@ Forge, SJF Thanks. Lots of information there to process. The suicidal thing Rollo wrote about in the BPD post is taking a toll on me. I’ve dealt with that almost my whole life, so hearing her say she’s suicidal is too much. I don’t have the resources to deal with this. And she’s making it out like I’m responsible for it. Like I was supposed to be her savior and now that I’m pulling away she has nothing to live for. Then saying she loves me and doesn’t want anything but to be with me and if that doesn’t… Read more »

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@Softek: My Dr. Borderline is probably a rather mild case, but then I never let her do any shit. So far on any occasion where I was somewhat weak (stress from work etc) or when I did give her any more comfort (like giving her a date for a follow up meeting) she tried some power-struggle. I picked up all of them and won and each time she fell more in love with me and showed less issues afterwards. At several points I was ready to let her go. It’s true, you probably have to leave such a women regularly.… Read more »

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Rollo, I hear what you are saying but what if accepting Red Pill ideals are not rewarded by women? Learning Red Pill ideals might be in my best interest but if it goes unrewarded by women then there is crisis of motive, in accepting the ideals which is what I am struggling with at the moment. For me the whole reason I got into Game and now Red Pill – although I am still trying to fit Red Pill ideals into the Blue pill ideals – was to get laid more. But the opposite seems to be happening – I… Read more »

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Softek, I apologize in advance that I don’t know anything (have no expertise) about depression or suicide stuff. Nor do I or any other commenters have good or bad advice. It is just advice with neutral value. You place the value how you see fit. You saying you need to re-invent yourself is a buffer to kick your can down the road. The fact is you already did re-invent yourself with red pill awareness and game. You know that. You know you are better now than you were a year ago. You need more experienced tools on how to operate… Read more »

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@kite, you have a gross misconception of the “reward” of the red pill. The reward is living to your highest potential, on your terms. The reward is prioritizing and provisioning for yourself, understanding your self worth, and allowing only the people into your life who add value.

Are women are reward? Nope, more akin to a perk.

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@Chump_No_More

It’s funny, @kite refers to a bunch of titles of Rollo’s posts, almost as if the comment was assembled by cut n’ paste.. In “A New Hope”, Rollo repeats:

Women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life, never the focus of it

If you can’t accept that you are not Red Pill

As well, there is no version of Game that results in “isolating myself more”

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@Monty Also in a 35 year mirage found this site 5months ago still working through it Don’t know if it will help but here goes.First thing after reading year one all the new posts and all related items underlined just click and read.At 55 years old wife is 58 we have seen our world change drasticaly and it seems to be escalating. I had to stop telling her my worry’s concerns troubles and pain and just be the rock.Also have changed body language, better posture, more self confidence,I will decide if we go to war and what the strategy is… Read more »

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@Monty: “And finding a way to not lose what you have, while gaining . . . ”

You may find that in order to afford the Porsche you have to trade in the Toyota.

Or, alternatively, that when you buy the Porsche, the Toyota, which you were perfectly delighted with when you first bought it, is now assigned the role of “beater.”

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“Last year when I had barely given birth to our second son, Rollo just stood by and did nothing while Glenn verbally eviscerated me in all kinds of ways – attacking everything about me, calling my life shit, calling me all sorts of names, all while I was trying to merely comment (agreeing no less) and take care of a few weeks old baby in our family. I had all kinds of postpartum hormones going on at that time as well, very little sleep, etc. so apparently just having a different opinion is pettiness, but resorting to personal insults, cussing,… Read more »

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@kfs Kentucky fried squirel
I like the metaphor and am assuming the Porsche vs. Toyota is a reference to lifestyle not partners.

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@Monty “…..is there a method or mindset that will allow an AFC to move towards more assertive, more Alpha behavior without souring the whole thing immediately… What I am asking is, is there a way to move back to those glimpses of Alpha and beyond them, without destroying what I’ve built for a family… While improving it overall…” Yes there is a way. It is by no means easy nor quick. So don’t rush it if you don’t know what you are doing. There is a maxim, perhaps coined on reddit married red pill, that it takes a month for… Read more »

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@stuffinbox:

That is why I edited the quote as I did, although I would use the word life, rather than lifestyle.

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“I like the metaphor and am assuming the Porsche vs. Toyota is a reference to lifestyle not partners.”

I assume it means get a new partner. And I don’t disagree with that advice on women or cars. Me personally, I started with a Porsche, and don’t want to downgrade to a Toyota or a fat ugly Yugo.

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http://illimitablemen.com/2014/03/09/how-women-argue/

If anyone here hasn’t read that essay and understand it and employ or develop tactics or methods in their sexual strategy they are missing out one the most valuable essays in the manosphere.

Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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@SJF

“Frame isn’t Power”

This keeps standing out to me in what you say. Would you be willing to tell me what you mean by this? Obviously how you feel and how you see yourself as well as how you communicate your impression of yourself isn’t equivalent to your capacity to inspire confidence in others, though they are conflated, usually by gurus giving bad advice.

What do you specifically mean with that statement? Or should I be able to find it in year one and two?

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@SJF:

In his case I think that likely, as he is trying to recover something that was already discarded, but if I had to nail down what I was referring to to a single concept, rather than the generic, it would be elements of his mental paradigm.

At which point his assessment of the value of his current “partnership” will change and he will be able to move on without angst. Right now he is in distress because he is trying to blue pill the red pill.

@Monty: Google “Sunk-Cost Fallacy”.

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I had a Yugo kept it running w/ duck tape and baling wire strictly a to b car you can’t trade those things just crush them.Started out with the sexy 40s antique truck and still totaly into them.
I don’t equate Alpha with asshole but more a calm sense of presence and right direction that people are willing to follow voluntarily.I consider SJF and many others on this site as Alpha by these standards.
Don’t mismisunderstand me.

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@monty It’s good that you’re here. Learning new game skills and redpill mindsets can make you a bit uncalibrated at first, and when you try to get frame back there’s usually a lot of pushback. So I would generally recommend not starting by trying to game the wife or get frame back directly. That part is tricky, best practiced by advanced practitioners rather than a novice. So start by working on your frame/value with new masculine pursuits. Lift, do martial arts, get into black smithing, start a side business, homestead, BASE jump, start a folk band, whatever you would lbe… Read more »

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Hell, I don’t know I just regurgitate stuff I read in the manosphere. http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/ The concept of frame covers a lot of aspects of our daily lives, some of which we’re painfully aware of, others we are not, but nonetheless we are passively influenced by frame. What concerns us in terms of inter-gender relations however is the way in which frame sets the environment, the ambience, and the ‘reality’ in which we relate with both the woman we sarge at a bar and the relationship with the woman we’ve lived with for 20 years. One important fact to consider, before… Read more »

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@Monty “So start by working on your frame/value with new masculine pursuits. Lift, do martial arts, get into black smithing, start a side business, homestead, BASE jump, start a folk band, whatever you would lbe passionate about. Basically, expand your personality apart from her and your relationship. That starts to give you a stronger MPO.” That is excellent, fantastic advice by Forge the Sky and it is a cornerstone of the “Mindful Attraction Plan”. You have to go your own way in the relationship with your wife. Law #16 Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor Too much circulation makes… Read more »

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@Forge the Sky and @GW – thanks. @GW – Yeah, I have the curse of verbosity but at least I am in good company here! It is an amazing rush – if you’re a Thrill of the Hunt guy like me. Even more than the sex, my favourite moment on a date is when you feel the electric sexual chemistry as the “love bubble” forms – the moment when your eyes lock and you go in for the kiss for the first time.. @Forge – it’s just practice and I am slowly getting better but I have a long way… Read more »

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@Blax & SJF – I can definitely be full of shit sometimes, lol, whether that was aimed at me or not. I hope people noticed that I was trying to correct Niko and he reverted to tedious parsing and semantics, and then I checked out. I don’t dislike him or think he’s in any way not sincere or even uncivil here. To my thinking, his ideas are pedestrian and i react because he poses himself as some kind of seer in his vids and comments. I don’t get a thing out of it, have mentioned it several times and will… Read more »

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“They may take our lives, but they will never take our freedom.”

The ability to take life is power. The willingness to lose life rather than capitulate is frame.

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And here is a man with unshakeable frame. You should have seen when he was on Joe Rogan’s show, he revealed what a Blue Piller Joe still is in some ways. Many of you probably know of Gavin McInnes – either way, you’re gonna love this clip.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3SwRMyETlQ&w=560&h=315%5D

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@Rollo: Perfect!

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@Culum

Things only go in mod if you put more than 3 links in one post.

Good clip.

https://youtu.be/A-sU8GWoD3w

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@Cheupez “This BPD narrative here fits in better for the western setup. Where I live a girl just cant trash a guy’s car like that. She will end up with a hot iron rod up her ass. Are you guys telling me I have to stop screwing feisty girls? When a girl gets feisty she is asking for a hard fucking. And she doesn’t want a relationship with you either. Why I know this is because she will cut out only to reach out to you later when the pussy itch strikes again.” Good perspective on this. I think that,… Read more »

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@ lh

@ SJF

Sage advice from both of you. Pretty unbelievable. Now that I’m getting actual experience, the dots Rollo’s connected and the advice guys like you offer here is nothing short of amazing.

You both hit the nail on the head.

Definitely getting a lot of experience and feel like I’m learning more quickly.

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Incidentally, the Uber minicab girl (she’s actually 30 and is an actual doctor in Miami- looks remarkably young) was arrested by the police after walking away and has been placed on “administrative leave” by her hospital and banned by Uber.

And she may yet lose her medical licence. So there’s some justice after all, although of course all that only happened because she was caught bang to rights on video…

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@Thx for the FR, i got a lot out of it.

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Good luck Softek.

See?

Now here is the point at which a guy can tell a man to think with his logical brain rather than with his dick.

See how that works, girls?

Same words. Different context.

In one context, serious and caring. In the other context, trite.

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@Softek “And she’s making it out like I’m responsible for it. Like I was supposed to be her savior and now that I’m pulling away she has nothing to live for. Then saying she loves me and doesn’t want anything but to be with me and if that doesn’t work out she has nothing left.” Co-dependancy. She shouldn’t be relying on you to make her feel complete. In a relationship both people should contribute to the other’s life while still maintaining a solid identity aside from the other. In this case, it could also just be words to manipulate you… Read more »

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Clarification re: “I’m not exactly convinced that this girl for sure has BPD or something similar, and your only option is to get out.”

Dangling modifier. I’m not convinced about either one of those things, not just the first one.

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My pleasure @scribblerg – I also get a lot out of it – both the comments and the act of putting my thoughts in writing. I’m also going to start assessing the girl’s personality type after every date, just to get in the habit of analyzing women, although I’m not very good at it yet. . I’ll use the categories set out in the excellent Franco/South Practical Psychology book which is often cited here: Good Girl, Materialista, Adventuress (and can High or Low Self Esteem versions of each of those). The tags are self-explanatory but we just need to remember… Read more »

Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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@SJF

Ohhhh. Power is leverage in all it’s forms as well as the jealous guarding of one’s ability to exercise options and to maneuver as one finds suitable.

Hmmm……so I gots to blow up her frame if I wanna dominate her, no? Hmm one step closer.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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….fucking blizzard

IAS
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IAS
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@Culum: that is a nice book. They are very much for vetting out Low Self-Esteem women.

I suspect I’m married to a LSE Good Girl, which I think of the LSE types is the most likely to end up married (I think that LSE Adventuress is somewhat easy to vet out even for Blue Pill men).

I’m not sure what to do about the LSE aspects.

SJF
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@Culum Struan and ScribblerG I’m really hoping that Scribbler can find the time to read that book, because I think it would be good for him to use the practical advice on screening women. I think he would also be very, very good at assessing the personality type, analyzing the high self esteem or low self esteem type and vetting for high sex drive or low sex drive. Of course the downside of vetting is that a guy’s going to end up with a lot of discards. Which means you gotta open more women and have more substrate to work… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Oh and one more thing: each of these can also come in a High Sex Drive (HD) or Low Sex Drive (LD) version – so it is actually 12 combinations – 3x2x2 (and actually more combinations than that because no one is an archetype…variety of people is infinite)

SJF
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@Yollo “Hmmm……so I gots to blow up her frame if I wanna dominate her, no?” Not exactly. You have to enter into the relationship with good frame and your own mental point of origin. And then not surrender that in proceeding to carry that relationship forward. If you surrender your frame you are no longer alpha masculine and you are less attractive. If you compromise your ideals and your mission for her, you become less attractive. That is entirely different than blowing up her frame. Blowing up her frame implies destroying part of who she is and her goodness that… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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If a guy intends to fuck a woman, he has to report to the police 24hrs before the act! Hahahahaaa…. By the time the girls in the west pass all the laws that they want passed, there will be no fun even for them. Even as early as in pre-school, girls will playfully pick on a boy and then the boy will playfully chase. They want to get it to the point where if the boy chases, “CALL THE POLICE?!?” That is not really civilization. There are some aspects of human interaction you cannot legislate. Otherwise life becomes just one… Read more »

Pinelero
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Pinelero
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@SJF; Married man’s game supposedly is harder than LTR and PUA game. I keep reading that all over the place, but find it hard to believe. I am a quiet guy, so PUA game would be challenging for me, as I have been married or LTR all of my adult life. I have been studying the game videos from several of the PUAs on U-tube, because they have such a great attitude towards women, abundance mentality, being the prize, dominance, and just having fun.

Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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@SJF Congratulations man. 27 years. Heh. It’s bound to change something about your approach to her and her quirks. My early experience with the opposite sex, including family, has been fucking horrible. I don’t know if I want to prepare for a future where I’m not giving my women anxiety. If I shed that as a matter of course to mastering the game, they’re all fucking lucky. I got a lot of catching up to do. Lot’s of growing up to do too on my part. Thanks for clarifying it for me. I read the two books, but I guess… Read more »

Softek
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Softek
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@ Forge I’ve actually been doing the alone time thing, since I figured her seeing me vulnerable is just not a good idea. I didn’t even think of that as soft dread, but I can definitely see how it is. She’s responded accordingly every time I’ve done that. The tough thing with the boyfriend/girlfriend thing is she explicitly stated that means not having sex with other people. I’m having a hard time taking that with a grain of salt. Should I take that with a grain of salt? On the other hand, months ago she asked me if I didn’t… Read more »

SJF
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@Yollo,

I never implied not giving your women anxiety. You need her to have anxiety. And you be like an oak tree in a the storm of her anxiety (with your frame and congruent alpha dominance) as her anchor.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/16/the-gift-of-anxiety/

IAS
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@Pinelero: Married man game is harder than LTR game and LTR game is harder.

Whenever you make “Next” a more costly option (and the *woman knows it*), it makes it harder. And with many marriages leading to a “Next” costing half the man assets, restricted access to his children and so on…

Furthermore, marriage and LTR frequently place the man in a provider role, which can make some things harder as well.

scribblerg
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@Softie – I’m on a work project this weekend so i have to concentrate on that but I’m reading your comments and the advice with great interest. I reflect back on how I got lost in my erstwhile wife and see so many parallels – NPD is just another kind of personality disorder. My take is not so formal, and may be off but I had a thought worth sharing. I was blown away by K. when I met her. I can tell you the details of the first night we met still, I was so blown away I didn’t… Read more »

Roused
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Roused
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Rollo, not sure if missed your update or where the link is for your live streaming chat today???

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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Correction, where I say it was “funny” when I was suicidal what I meant to say is that I was relatively easy to stop drinking and other shit, that was not THE issue.

SJF
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@Pinelero It depends. Your premise is not entirely clear. (Could be the sentence and paragraph structure, or lack thereof….) Married man game does not have the power of next as readily available. Married men use buffers that are readily available to them to make it “easier” Married man game is not harder if someone told you this shit 20 years ago and you had mastery of it. And knew how to maintain that mastery. It is harder when you let the relationship slip into your bad habits and then you have to climb out of the hole. Married man game… Read more »

SJF
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“Rollo, not sure if missed your update or where the link is for your live streaming chat today?”

Wait five minutes? Pacific Standard time.

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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The live event is going to be streaming on Niko Choski’s Youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_FQZTqWIw

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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If guys are struggling to figger out how to be anonoymous on YouTube, do the following:

1. I do all this under incognito browsing in chrome.
2. Great a new gmail account not linked to your other gmail/google account
3. log into gmail in incognito mode under the new account.
4. go up top right and click on the dots and click on youtube

voila, semi-anonymous youtube account…still know your IP and at some level if you are using google they track everything. but it would be very hard to dox you with that set up.

Monty
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Monty
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@all

Thank you for the comments and encouragement, I don’t expect immediate results, and will investigate the sources you mention… Game is something I have peripherally understood but not practiced and I am starting my journey, expect more from me.

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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@Culum props on the FR…getting better for sure… “She kept giving me compliments..how she liked my grey hair, how 36 is the perfect age etc (she also, very unusually for a 29 year old, doesn’t seem to be looking for an LTR).” lol… how’s that beta baiting feel in situ?…lol…and did you spot it in real time?… “Even more than the sex, my favourite moment on a date is when you feel the electric sexual chemistry as the “love bubble” forms – the moment when your eyes lock…” try that across the room…with a girl you’ve never met…lol… when some… Read more »

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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@Monty

welcome!…

i don’t have time to get into details but…

“What I am asking is, is there a way to move back to those glimpses of Alpha and beyond them, without destroying what I’ve built for a family… While improving it overall…”

YES!…(i did this…it’s been about 4 years for me) and more…and this is one of the best places to start…

good luck!

SJF
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@Monty “Game is something I have peripherally understood but not practiced and I am starting my journey, expect more from me.” There is some danger in “purple pill” advice such as that from Athol Kay. The reason is that you can’t be half in on red pill. And it leans in to much to the feminine. And risks de-polarizing the masculine–feminine desire dynamic. The red pill does not endorse purple pill. And indeed red pill may not be for you. But Game is important for your masculine power and for your sexual strategy. That being said, the first thing in… Read more »

redlight
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redlight
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@soft

I figured her seeing me vulnerable is just not a good idea

actually since you want (need really) to turn her off completely …

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@Yolo “Ohhhh. Power is leverage in all it’s forms as well as the jealous guarding of one’s ability to exercise options and to maneuver as one finds suitable. Hmmm……so I gots to blow up her frame if I wanna dominate her, no? Hmm one step closer.” SJF got this earlier, and kfg had a great example of the distinction, but let me see if I can make it more clear with examples. Power is your ability to enact changes to reality. Frame is your concept about how you think reality should be. They tend to track each other but are… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@Pinerelo “Married man’s game supposedly is harder than LTR and PUA game. I keep reading that all over the place, but find it hard to believe. I am a quiet guy, so PUA game would be challenging for me, as I have been married or LTR all of my adult life.” The learning curve in the very beginning might be sharper for PUA game – that approach anxiety is a bitch. But past that, it’s easier bc of the low stakes in each interaction. If you fuck up, NEXT and you just learned something. In LTR game, a fuckup can… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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Men lose a lot of hand just by being in an LTR in the modern West. You’re just expected to take a subservient role, and if you don’t you get huge pushback. Precisely, the loss of hand is due to her having hand with the Magic Pussy Syndrome (as it it referred to by the authors of Practical Female Psychology book mentioned today) and what I refer to in a marriage as her playing the Hide the Vagina game. I just searched through a hundred of Rollo’s essay’s to find one of his best on “how do you keep the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Forge I know that when depression hits me, things I usually think are great I start going over and over in my head until I’m convinced that it’s the worst thing ever and nothing can fix it. I’ve just kinda learned to recognize the pattern and tell myself, ‘alright, I’m just not in a state where I have good perspective right now. I’ll just wait till tomorrow when I’m better and then I’ll see things more clearly.’ This is a form of Gaming yourself. Or a form of self-knowing, for the Game-phobic. It’s important to maintain state, maintain frame, and… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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@Culum – nice FR… and I’m glad the Shame clip made sense… ironic title notwithstanding… On your FR – why oh why oh why won’t you try and pull her? Even if you couldn’t, trying sets up the day 2 much better. Now you need to start over again – yes I know that you always need to start over but it is easier to start over from a more entitled place than a less entitled place! Like you go to pull her and she says she can’t – but at that point all kinds of other truth can slip… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxrkiPhCQM

Forge the sky – this is the full clip, much better subcoms.

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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Hey Sentient! Thanks, I haven’t seen the film. Ya, looks like it shows a lot more when the clip starts earlier. That’s good acting. Note for the watchers – see how she’s trying to suppress her (very strong) IOI’s. That’s a great way to screen for genuine interest. Girls who are just trying to use their sex appeal to get something from you will tend to amplify weak IOI’s instead – like grooming and smiling. That’s what I mean when I talk about ‘redlight vs. greenlight’ IOI’s. For example, these girls are just looking for attention: http://media.tumblr.com/09125e251ec9dcc3b582c7618ccd1a33/tumblr_inline_mmcdyxcVAj1qz4rgp.gif That’s bait, not… Read more »

Will Edward
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Will Edward
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Well written article. It’s important for people to have an open mind and be receptive to new ideas and paradigms. It’s the only way for true progress and growth to occur. If you want to have the successful lifestyle you see others have, then copy what they are doing and surround yourself with like-minded people. Learn through osmosis. You will see how and why women are attracted to men and you can become that man.

SJF
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@ Will Edward

Yawn. Sweet open. Then pablum.

What else you got and how much are you charging for it?

bob bitchin
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bob bitchin
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^ nice call sjf lol

Bellator
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Bellator
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Question – considering what the the red pill (accurately I believe) tells us about the true nature of women, why have sex with them? Why associate with them in any way at all? If you knew a man who had those reprehensible characteristics wouldn’t you avoid him? And if we don’t avoid a woman just as we would avoid such a man, isn’t the red pill perspective incomplete?

SJF
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@Bellator Denying death and having defense mechanisms against that terror was explained in epic work of non-fiction called “The Denial of Death” by Ernest Becker. In the forward of the book, whoever wrote that explained: “So long as we stay obediently within the defense mechanisms of our personality, what Wilhelm Reich called “character armor” we feel safe and are able to pretend that the world is manageable. But the price we pay is high. We repress our bodies to purchase a soul that time cannot destroy; we sacrifice pleasure to buy immortality; we encapsulate ourselves to avoid death. And life… Read more »

SJF
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And while I’m at it, I might goad Scribbler into reading that book by also blockquoting this from that introduction to the Denial of Death, which by the way was a contemporary to Kubler-Ross’s On Death and Dying. Great parallels here to red pill and game: “Society provides the second line of defense against our natural impotence by creating a hero system that allows us to believe that we transcend death by participating in something of lasting worth. We achieve ersatz immortality by sacrificing ourselves to conquer an empire, to build a temple, to write a book, to establish a… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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“Yawn. Sweet open. Then pablum.
What else you got and how much are you charging for it?”

Yup. At least Ivan Throne contributed a bit.

Where’s your FR’s Will?

Softek
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@ Bellator “Reprehensible characteristics” is a judgment call. There’s nothing reprehensible about women. They simply are what they are. When you understand more about how women work, sex with them is more enjoyable, not less. Instead of avoiding sex, you can pursue it and enjoy it more fully and completely. Getting any kind of negative emotions over reading this stuff is just a sign of grief — letting go of the old ego-investments in equality between men and women. The real nightmares, and every guy here will attest, come from investment in Blue Pill idealism. Not from understanding how women… Read more »

Softek
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@ scribblerg

Thanks for the advice and support. Taking all that into consideration. Moved past some ego investments, now onto some deeper seated ones I haven’t tackled yet.

SJF
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Hey Softek,

No offense, but I see you write that last comment and I keep thinking that someone took over your avatar after you committed suicide and decided to make you a new person with more Real power. Like someone did a Catfish persona of you. Just to punk us readers.

You totally made progress and you have the ability to move forward.

Don’t disappoint us now.

SJF
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SJF
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Holy shit, though,Softek. I just realized my statement to move forward doesn’t mean anything other than be better at being a man. It does not mean anything else.Not recommending you ditch her. (And wtf? the spinning plates seems beyond your skill level. But it is a Maxim). Not like Camaro’s girl who might do him some harm. You know me. I’m not a fan of ditching the easy pussy, just making it easier. (you know Stoicism. low downside, high upside. Don’t buffer. Low hurdles to in your mind to perceived false high hurdles through mastery). Moving forward was not a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@SJF And wtf? the spinning plates seems beyond your skill level. But it is a Maxim Dude, I love you and all. You know this. However, spinning plates is beyond the skill level of me and any dude who shows up here. Seriously. If Softek wants to try spinning them, let him try. I wish I’d tried earlier. If anything, TRP is all about stepping way the fuck out of the comfort zone society establishes for you. Spinning plates is far outside of the serial monogamy society tells men is acceptable or even the marriage you yourself are in and… Read more »

kite
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kite
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@Chump_No_More – yes, on some level I understand that and even know that BUT I do not seem to realize that. There is a big difference between knowing something and realizing it, I find. I cannot seem to internalize Red Pill ideals as I am constantly surrounded by the complete opposite, the only think I focus on is the sharp contrast around me. @redlight – I did not mean that the Game leads me to isolating myself. I meant that the Red Pill ideals. As I am perhaps trying to achieve Blue Pill ideals via Red pill ideals, I do… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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After spending some time here I have come to realize that shit tests are not for filtering alpha. They are meant to help a woman get her pussy up to it for a man she has already determined is alpha in some way. She want to pussywet. What happens is that when you don’t respond accordingly, she is frustrated and walks away cursing. She already knows you are alpha, but she is hurt that you wont play. If you get something that you realize (I hope you do) to be a shit test, what you have to do is decide… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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I guess you could interchange the flash and flush, depending…

SJF
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@ Sun Wukong “And wtf? the spinning plates seems beyond your skill level.” You know me well enough to know my speaking and writing are sometimes a bit off of perfect. I did say that last night and as I recall what I was attempting to do was goad him into spinning plates. I could be wrong about my motivations. It did come off wrong as I read it now. And it’s shitty advice on my part. I do understand and appreciate your check to my callousness. And apologize to Softek. It is a joy to hear of Softeks improvement… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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Yeah, I forgot to close the blockquote format after the first indented paragraph. Maybe I shouldn’t post so many comments.

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