A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

MAP went from Male Action Plan to Marriage Action Plan to Mindful Attraction Plan… The Mindful Attraction Plan

“Mindful” is chick crack right now. I was getting a hipster-coffee last week and chatted up a bottle blonde in line; soft fabric scarf looped around her neck, check, earth-tone blouse in contrast, check, black pants with calf-high boots, check – I tossed off a few words that included how “mindful” I have become of “clean eating” and her face lit right up.

So no surprise that the MAP is now “Mindful”.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

One last comment on MMSL and the change… The original Male Action Plan and the Marriage action Plan had a series of phases to progress through, 1 through 7 I recall… with the last phases being setting your minimum requirements for a relationship and if they were not ultimately met, severing the relationship, divorce etc. and moving on with your life.

The Mindful Attraction Plan eliminated that process…

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  Sentient

To me a huge part of the of the red pill is changing how I used to see something.

It’s taking all my blue pill BS and dressing better and not talking as much. Listing with intent and purpose.
It’s hard yet coming here keeps me relatively on track.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@kfg

“It seems I have no affinity for the Franco-British spelling of this word, even under the influence of the spell checker. There is no “ue” in “logos.”’

Oddly enough, this is the part of the comment I empathize with the most.

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

* Also raising hand *

I was an MMSL ‘veteran’ but left on my own accord because I could no longer take the ‘pig piling’ I would get from linking and endorsing outside red pill thought, most especially Rollo.

It’s particularly disappointing for me because I credit Athol with my initial unplugging and I tried to ‘carry it forward’ until I could stomach it no longer.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“Tolkein shows a rare moment of insight into women in Fellowship of the Ring, when Galadrial briefly covets the Ring of power. “You will love and fear me”, or something like that.” Tolkien had a profound understanding of Medieval values, mythology, and the power that struggle has on the human spirit. But he did seriously pedestalize the pussy. Interestingly, he also de-emphasized it at the same time (not many chicks around when he writes lol) and shows some insight into how to properly deal with the female foible of trying to ape men’s power (Eowyn wanted desperately to gain masculine… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Also, don’t want to make this a nerdfest, but the Galadriel thing was actually the culmination of a long history of her struggle for power. She found redemption by refusing it when openly offered.

You can see an interesting contrast in how men and women seek power by contrasting her with Feanor, who sought power in order to do things rather than ‘all will love me and despair.’

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

“All will love me, and despair”, that’s the line I was recalling. Keen insight into what women will do with power.

Not to get all GBFM, but there are things to be learned in great literature.
Madame Bovary, Anna Karenina and so forth all contain truth about women for those who pay attention.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Sentient January 25th, 2016 at 10:40 am @Rollo OK, officially I didn’t know all that shit about revisions and different versions……. and the forum stuff. Umm…. Sorry…..(no question mark.)…You guys. I’ll shut up about that Athol now. And try not to bring it up again, Kay? No idea which version I read a couple years ago in a couple hours and took it for what it was worth for me at the time. And I should probably pass on mentioning Andy’s last sentence (quote from wife) sounds like indifference rather than admiration and respect because it would make me look… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Got it. And I’ll stop mentioning it as soon as my extinction burst settle down.

But I hope I didn’t piss you off so much that you are now converting to Pacific Standard Time.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Rollo, Sentient, thanks. That’s really interesting. So basically because of the financial pressures Rollo mentions, MMSL “shaved off” the last 20% harder edges of the original action plan in order to make it more palatable to women and not give too much power to guys.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

This is kinda a FR, though I wasn’t trying to ‘game’ the circumstance in particular. Just struck me bc I didn’t know how to interpret it afterwards, and I’m trying to understand group dynamics better. This happened at work. I work with a lot of cute 20-somethings; I use them to practice light banter/flirting but don’t usually go past that. I work in orthopedics and sometimes give friends/co-workers informal advice about say mild joint issues and shit that they don’t want to bother a doctor with. One of them complains to me of a sore shoulder. She’s been shit testing… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

PS – It occurs to me also that in addition to the above, “enlisting the wife’s approval in the husband’s transformation plan” could destroy the foundation of the process entirely because if he needs his wife to tell him/help him on this path, then he is no longer a guy who “Just Gets It”

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge the Sky sounds like they started to have competition anxiety (you had pre-selection) and they were competing for your attention, then the girls teamed up and got you reacting to them = beta…instead of ignoring their pleas for help… “Girl #2 started joking about it all – “No, Forge! Heal ME! ME!’ So I just kinda jumped from one to the other as they got my attention over time. ” and here’s the result… “I just faded from the center of focus. ” ie you fell into their frame…how’s that shiny armor feeling right about now…lol girls are tricky…lol…that… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Oh, also, here’s an IOI I’ve not heard mentioned before. It’s a bit situational, and therefore unusual; I’m going off an N of 3 here so grains of salt all around, though I think it’s pretty solid. She does it like this – she clasps her hands behind her back, then lifts them up while pushing out her chest as she breathes in. The conceit is that she’s stretching her shoulder/chest muscles and just so happens to be standing in profile about 8 feet in front of you. They do this when you got them attracted somehow, and then have… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Forge

If you were to change the set to me and my wife instead of you and the three girls, that is precisely the same as I mentioned over the weekend as my wife “keeping frame”. It’s just what they do unconsciously. Keeping frame is their default. And lately the more I keep good frame myself these days the more she tries harder to keep hers (extinction burst).

Yep. Frame is not power example.

I’m stoic about it, though. Just means we need better game.

agent p
agent p
5 years ago

“Any value MMSL had in the past is at best a means to draw men back into a feminine approved Purple Pill mindset now. Quite honestly I think it’s potentially damaging to men, but the good news is most of the guys I hear from who were forum regulars are abandoning it because it’s become a male space that’s been assimilated by the feminine and they get banned or find it useless now.” This^^^^^ I started there in the first of 2013, it’s gone along way downhill since then. there used to be some RP Jedi masters on the forums… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@habd Thanks, it’s all s lot more obvious typed out. Wasn’t falling into their frame as badly as I made out – made them qualify a bit for my attention – but like you say they took over. Crazy how you little it takes to lose frame lol. It’s all in the tiny things, things a reformed nice guy like me can hardly imagine changing at times. Which of course is the point. But ya, three interested girls just back down to zero (not overall they still like me, but in that moment) just cause I started reacting to them.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Yeah, I’ve been writing a lot about frame lately because that’s something I’m really working on. It’s a subtle thing. Understanding it is the first step in learning how to utilize it.

Dutchman
Dutchman
5 years ago

@Culum

“PS – It occurs to me also that in addition to the above, “enlisting the wife’s approval in the husband’s transformation plan” could destroy the foundation of the process entirely because if he needs his wife to tell him/help him on this path, then he is no longer a guy who “Just Gets It” ”

This is exactly why I don’t want my wife to know that I’m reading any kind of relationship improvement shit.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

YaReally HABD Sentient Forge GW et al Right, big Sunday 3 FRs coming up (yeah, Sunday was a busy day..I’m taking tonight off because another 23 year old flaked, and then I have a couple more dates scheduled tomorrow..although statistically at least one will flake). Sentient – yeah, point taken about subconsciously scheduling dates in a way that I know I can’t pull. Sunday date 1: 23 year old blonde HB7 from a sugar daddy site ————————————————————————- Don’t worry guys – I haven’t gone back to sugar sites. I was texting some 30-40 numbers in several cities when I stopped… Read more »

Tiberius
Tiberius
5 years ago

I fully expect this to get buried in the hundreds of comments but one thing that may help our friend is a perspective I try to foster – Love them enough to act like you don’t. Understand that what they need is not what you need. Make what you provide what they need and not what you want to give them. I recently got in an argument with my LTR gf. She wanted me to apologize for hurting her feelings, I refused. It caused the whole thing to drag out longer but she came back. She saw that I was… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

@Forge – just saw your mini FR. Was going to post exactly what HABD said but he beat me to it. What if you had done the same thing but gone a bit slower, at your pace instead of “rushing” between them? What if you had directed the action and the conversation and remained the center of focus? By teasing them, qualifying them and amping up the competition angle jokingly? Preferably with some sexual innuendo and strong EC/sexual voice tonality.. I am thinking of stuff like: “Now, now girls..form an orderly line..there’s only one of me and I only have… Read more »

GW
GW
5 years ago
Reply to  Culum Struan

Love the FRs guys, even the desperation attempt with the fat chick. This is a fantastic thread. Someone could provide tremendous value by simply gathering the cream from this thread into some Cliff Notes.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Tiberius: Not lost – I read it 🙂 I agree, but one question: do you see or apply a distinction between *refusing* to apologize and simply not apologizing? Like was it your gf saying “I’m hurt..you should apologize” and you saying “No. I did nothing wrong”. Or was it more like her being hurt and crying and trying to beta bait you into an apology? Personally I’m a fan of sincere apologies in an LTR if you genuinely have messed up. Rarely given, only if YOU believe you messed up (not because she’s hurt or crying), and given sincerely with… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Culum

“PS – I think you were going to do a writeup a while ago about turning your marriage around..I think that would be really interesting to read.”

lol…ya, maybe when my life gets less busy…i feel stressed enough for time just reminding you that CH had a whole post on beta baiting…

good luck!

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Haha thanks GW, I aim to please. And thanks HABD – I’m googling it now.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Dutch “This is exactly why I don’t want my wife to know that I’m reading any kind of relationship improvement shit.” Imagine I was a guy friend of yours in real life. One that you trusted to be looking out for your interests. And I was red pill. I would push you to not walk on eggshells and say something like that. To own your shit and be self confident that as a man you are working on being better at being a masculine male. Not afraid of her knowing that you are reading any kind of improvement shit–no matter… Read more »

Striver
Striver
5 years ago

My take on “marriage game” is that it would not have worked for me. The ex was going to divorce whoever she married, then leave them for the guy she is now with. I was just the chump that got stuck, it never mattered who I was or what I did. Believe it or not, but I was there. So I am pushing back here on LTR game. My experience. There does seem to be a lot of emphasis here on AWALT, no quality women. I won’t disagree that the market is not that great right now, I have seen… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Walking Marriage

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Fyi: As you guys have heard from me in past, or not, my journey has taken me to a place where I don’t watch much television these days. (And my wife is pretty much addicted to it, you know the FI laden stuff). But there is nothing like a good drama that shows anti-hero masculine stuff. You know like Sons of Anarchy in the first three years before it jumped IDK what shark it jumped. And I was privy to watching Breaking Bad from it’s inception. A great story arc there, although it was painful not to see red pill… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Dutchman

This is exactly why I don’t want my wife to know that I’m reading any kind of relationship improvement shit.

Yes. Because to explain the Red Pill is just pointless – demonstrate, don’t explicate. Show, don’t tell.

Follow Tuco’s rule…

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“Her socializing out (as an extrovert) is “better than” my doing my things in (as an introvert).”

http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/10/#comment-heartiste-487880
http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/9/#comment-heartiste-477816

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

@Culum Date 1 – ?????? where did you try to pull her? Did I miss that? “I… come across as powerful and driven and relaxed and know what I want ” Remember the young girl from your apartment – dominance? Remember most of what comes out of their mouth is projection? So here you had a girl, compliant and willing who is looking for a powerful, driven (older to boot) guy who knows what he wants and you lead her to what? She wants the fantasy, play into the fantasy Strong dominant alpha older guy… “She asked me lots of… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge the Sky “She does it like this – she clasps her hands behind her back, then lifts them up while pushing out her chest as she breathes in.” that’s straight up beta baiting…lol…can you think of a better way for a girl to get you ‘reacting’ to her?…lol “They do this when you got them attracted somehow, and then have started to ignore them a bit.” no, this is a standard shit test/beta baiting…your ignoring them is the trigger, but it’s bc you stopped ‘reacting’ to them (before they ‘let you go’…ie not on her schedule…), not that they… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

@Tiberius

“Understand that what they need is not what you need. Make what you provide what they need and not what you want to give them.

Nice… this is the start of everything with understanding women. Cats are not dogs!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4623646/meow-o.gif

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Andy January 26th, 2016 at 5:25 am Hey, thanks for those comments from YaReally. “if after you’ve done that, you still hate interacting with people, then you can tell me you’re an introvert.” An INTJ pushing himself outside of his comfort zone and learning not to take himself seriously? lol” YaReally is a smart mother-fucker. Those are words of wisdom. I believe them now and I live them. Truth is five years ago, I couldn’t see it that way from ego-investments. I would get angry at having to socialize. Pretty much now after better mastery of Game I do enjoy… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@ Sentient i think he still has issues wrt that FRA…that’s why he’s not pulling…(but i could be wrong about that..)(that and the good girl/bad girl thing…lol) i don’t know if he’s pulled a girl since that episode… but i think that’s actually a normal reaction to that kind of shit… @Culum props on putting in the work…and posting those FRs…i can tell you are actually getting better (even if it doesn’t seem like it right now)…lol ok, dude…now that that’s out of the way [rolls up sleeves…]…lol besides that residual FRA stuff as a potential issue, i still see… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

@HABD, Culum et al Mini FR follow up to a short one a few posts ago on CH. So I was with a client and we met these 2 late 30’s women and another dude in my hotel and we bounced to another bar. I was gaming a hot young 8 nightlife girl (bartender or waitress off duty). It was very late. She was at the juke box looking at selections. I came up behind her and said “oh no….” she turned around looking at me with ??? on her face. I said “you’re not going to put on some… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Sentient nice FR…props on going out and practicing… ” So they see me and I go over and am just neutral with the 6.” so, was she your target?…(not that it really matters for milfy girls…lol) “They both come back together and she says “we will walk you to your room so you get back safe”… hahaha and I think of HABD “Threesome” and so say OK.” lol…if you were really going to go for this, NOW is the time to set it up…(assume the sale and acknowledge their hindbrains’s interest/intent (which actually IS a threesome, even if you didn’t… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

“you SHOULD have started with hb6 = competition anxiety…and it was a shit test…”

So money, as always HABD

Dutchman
Dutchman
5 years ago

I get what you’re saying dude. I mean, obviously Rollo’s wife knows he writes this blog and I’m sure he faced some shit tests about it and handled them like a pro. I just don’t necessarily want to face those same shit tests until I’m sure I can bat them aside.

Dutchman
Dutchman
5 years ago

I had occasion to compliment the wife yesterday after she spent the day cleaning the fuck out of the kids’ rooms.

Me: Good job on their rooms, they look great.

Her: Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Dutchman:

KFG Maxim Number Something or Other:

A clean kitchen is a useless kitchen.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Dutchman

“I had occasion to compliment the wife yesterday after she spent the day cleaning the fuck out of the kids’ rooms.

Me: Good job on their rooms, they look great.

Her: Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.”

do you see how she didn’t ‘accept’ your compliment?…

Dutchman
Dutchman
5 years ago

HABD, no, I really wasn’t sure how to interpret it. If she accepted it, would she just have said “Thank you! I put a lot of effort into it and I’m glad it’s finally done!” or something?

GW
GW
5 years ago
Reply to  Dutchman

@Dutchman, How about calmly saying your version of, “Good start on getting the house in order today. Keep it up.”, followed by walking away and maintaining calmness no matter how she reacts.
This sets your expectations high while rewarding with partial approval.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Dutchman “If she accepted it, would she just have said “Thank you! I put a lot of effort into it and I’m glad it’s finally done!” or something?” yes, she would have just said ‘thank you.’ (with no qualifying language…) bc then she’s agreeing to accept the compliment, which is in YOUR frame…meaning the compliment was important to her (and by extension, she values your approval). her response was totally in her frame = me…me…me…lol… “Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.” bc then SHE would have to be put out cleaning again…lol… i just wanted… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Sentient – that’s a good FR. It’s interesting just how close and yet so far these threesome scenarios can be (I haven’t had one yet, but it’ll happen one day). HABD nailed it of course but a couple of thoughts I had -You don’t say much about how your vibe was with the 6.5? Like obviously the 6 was into you, but I assume you must have had enough attraction with the 6.5 to think kissing her (much less a threesome) was a serious possibility? -Why didn’t you try to manage the logistics? For eg, invite both into your room… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Sounds like pulling a threesome in that situ would take serious frame and bustamove – HABD is just like ‘just pull her into the room too dude’ and I see how this goes, you need to create a reality so firm that they just follow along and then wonder how the fuck they did and enjoyed something so far out of what they expected to happen. But I think you really need to build up reference experiences gradually before such things become possible. If you’re not on cocaine or something at least lol. See, until relatively recently I was at… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

HABD, Sentient, thanks for the comments. HABD – I was just about to post indignantly that I don’t have an M/W complex (and I don’t) but I take your point about the subtler issue. I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but you’re essentially saying that if I view a girl as “girlfriend worthy” then I slow down on the escalation *even though I don’t want a relationship*. And you’re spot on there I think. Need to be very alert to it. I don’t think the FRA issue has left any residue though – I’m over it and she’s… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Thanks Forge – yes you’re right of course, although I had never thought of it like that. What you’re saying is basically a combination of what HABD is saying about me not escalating with good girls and Sentient’s thought about state and getting into state. There’s a powerful feedback loop in a good date – when the girl is hot (or even better hot+smart/funny) my interest goes up sharply and my state improves and we just bounce off each other and the chemistry goes through the roof.. When it’s not there..well, for me I’m just practicing laser eyes or whatever… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

PS – I remember the first time I did something similar to the dance floor grab thing – it’s an amazing feeling when it works and you realize this is possible. I still don’t get into state strongly enough to do it most of the time when I go out but it feels great (the night I got it to work properly for the first – and only – time – I had spoken to a two set earlier briefly without my wing, then later on they walked past the bar where my wing and I were standing and I… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Thanks for the replies all. @Culum Struan “What if you had done the same thing but gone a bit slower, at your pace instead of “rushing” between them? What if you had directed the action and the conversation and remained the center of focus? By teasing them, qualifying them and amping up the competition angle jokingly? Preferably with some sexual innuendo and strong EC/sexual voice tonality..” Yeah, actually got a chance to do something like that today. Worked good. A fourth girl had neck issues (I don’t know if it’s catching or if they’re pretending to get my attention now… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@having a bad day “that’s straight up beta baiting…lol…can you think of a better way for a girl to get you ‘reacting’ to her?…lol” Good call. I suppose I wasn’t considering the difference between baiting (which she does to capture attention) and an IOI (which generally exits her in spite of her best efforts to suppress it). Agree with most of what you wrote in the comment, the rest I plan on testing lol. Just this: “no, not a ‘neg’…negs are proactive…this girl was shit testing/beta baiting you…your ‘response’ was not ‘reactive’ (even if it was unconscious on your part…lol)… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Dutchman, HABD was spot on. It’s YOUR frame; what’s important is what YOU think of her performance. And her not thanking you in a musical girly voice for your compliment is her avoiding the compliment. But don’t worry, it takes time to build that kinda frame, she won’t do it overnight even if you started being perfect alpha instantaneously. I’d avoid GW’s thing for now though. You need to establish frame first. See this: ‘“Good start on getting the house in order today. Keep it up.”, followed by walking away and maintaining calmness no matter how she reacts.’ is a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Culum You can get away with a lot on the dance floor if you know how to calibrate. It’s really hard to take the interactions anywhere unless you run into fool’s gold, but it’s a good way to break your expectations/get into state. Watch for the girls that seem to be ignoring you but their hair keeps flying in your direction or their hips keep lining up with yours (albeit a foot or two away). You sometimes need to disarm a friend or white knight or two, but that’s usually easy if you seem to just be HAVING SO MUCH… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

@Culum On the 6.5 – I spent maybe 15 minutes total with her and her friend, not isolated. So didn’t really work up the attraction, I just assumed if she was willing to up to my room at all there was some shot. So pushed it and pfffft… But so what right? Same with the 6. I spent at most an hour over the two nights with her (30 and 30)… if she was hotter or younger or both, I would have definitely pushed more in my room, but at 2am or so, honestly, rather go to bed than work… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@forge

(on my phone )

“But I think you really need to build up reference experiences gradually before such things become possible. If you’re not on cocaine or something at least lol.”

this is straight up FI…lol

now tell me why…

good luck!

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@habd “this is straight up FI…lol now tell me why…” Because it’s making you work for sexual access rather than simply knowing it’s available to you. And I get that, I just took stuff a few times back before I had any concious game. In the right situ my mindset would just fall into place. With a very LSE girl once I was just like ‘fuck this bitch, she’s been bothering me all day’ and just gab her buy the hair and push her over so her face was in the dirt and she’d cum in seconds. This was right… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Culum Sentient Forge “-You don’t say much about how your vibe was with the 6.5? ” was their interaction sexualized at all? (meaning would she think he’s attractive? = her hindbrain is on board) (note – there was a part of the newest post that covers some of this idea of attraction being necessary precursor)…AND did she ‘isolate’ with him or not? (that means no other males…and sometimes even then…lol)…that should tell you everything you need to know about the vibe… “-One interpretation of both of them walking you back is the threesome desire..the other is that the 6.5 was… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

@HABD –

“props on giving that a try…when we deconstruct the situ in hindsight, can you see the path to daylight that was there?”

Indeed, indeed… i shuffle away in failure and shame. And curse you for now saying “foursome”! You bastard…!!!

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Sentient

“Indeed, indeed… i shuffle away in failure and shame. And curse you for now saying “foursome”! You bastard…!!!”

lol…all i see is upside potential…

@Rollo

dude, you should write a book or something…lol

good luck!

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

I don’t even know how I passed shit tests before A&A. ‘Inconsistently’ would be one answer. ‘By not giving a shit’ would be another.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge the Sky

January 27th, 2016 at 10:03 am
I don’t even know how I passed shit tests before A&A. ‘Inconsistently’ would be one answer. ‘By not giving a shit’ would be another.

By accident as well…. LOL

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

I should probably be posting on the new thread by now but HABD keeps bringing cool shit up. “just think about what would have happened with those THREE girls, if you had been in your apartment with them and you hadn’t started reacting to them…think about the vibe when all 3 first showed up together and then extrapolate…lol …don’t you think it COULD have gone 4some pretty fast?…lol” Heh, I remember Steve Jabba (a natural who got into PUA) saying that if a girl stands near him for more than a few seconds he knows she wants to fuck him… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Forge the Sky – yeah exactly. This is the Secret Society concept – theres a classic RSD Tyler post on it from the old days which YaReally often links to. I am not (yet) as into it as I want to be but I’ve had a few flashes – one of my favourite pulls was a sugar daddy date where I flat out refused to pay anything and then fried a chick’s circuits with enough attraction that she gave me a BJ in the toilet and thanked me for it – and on the way home she told me how… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

HABD/Sentient – okay point taken on all fronts. Esp about the attraction diffusing over time so it being better to pump up the attraction and just add in enough comfort. Now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve EVER had a 4 hour pull (unless it was the second date and even then it was about 2 hours in the second date). ALL my successful first date pulls (if they happened at all) happened in about 2 hours by following exactly the model (unconsciously) Sentient mentions – insane off the charts attraction quickly, heavy makeout and girl obviously… Read more »

GW
GW
5 years ago
Reply to  Culum Struan

@Culum, Awesome FR and good job. I love your details and candidness with us here. Forget about the fact she was an easy fish (probably 9 days into her cycle for that matter), you certainly played it well, which is all that matters. Re: Physical force, you are right. Just let your gut tell you what to do without mental masturbation. If you feel like moving her physically, do it. Just don’t run a script and force it when there is no vibe. Watch Julien videos to get a feel….he constantly tests that boundary. Re: takeaway. (Thanks and to @Sentient)… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
5 years ago

Exactly. So women should have no or little voice in the direction of society because unlike men, they’ll never think of how their hardware and firmware impacts everyone but themselves. When I see a hottie, my hardware and firmware says I should ravish her in the first dark alley, but I don’t because I’m a man. Of course, if one accepts hedonism as the point of society, pursuit of happiness and all the other nonsense, why should she care for the future or whatnot? In my country the hedonistic social democratic way of thinking hasn’t infested everyone, but the distinction… Read more »

Kieran
5 years ago

Is this satire? You can’t actually be serious? This is laughable psychobabble.

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