A Teachable Moment


While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

733 comments on “A Teachable Moment

  1. Why I don’t hate women – because weak men allowed this to happen

    The DIVIDED LINE comment that Rollo responded to. Stated ‘This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.”’

    Indeed they are awful they are human females that when left to their own devices have created a horror show of human mating within westernized cultures. And If you want to see the end game of this westernized empowered women society death just visit Japan and talk to a 30+ single woman.

    Weak men in the past have done this:
    -Weak men told them they can do anything a man can do.
    -Weak men Exhorted women to “have it all”
    -Weak men have allowed no fault frivorcing to become easy and convenient

    Women ‘can’t’ do everything a man can do
    Men this is serious and you need to get this embedded in your brain. Equalism is not rational. We NEED these women to dedicate a large percentage of their fertile age range to Giving Birth to viable population replacements. Full Stop. We can’t let them do everything a man can do. They NEED to be giving birth to more children. We need 2-3, 9 month periods of time that a woman dedicates to perpetuation of our western culture. If you do the math this adds up to 2+ years of time that societies need women to “take one for the team”.
    Dads … how many of you have patiently explained this to your daughters? How many Dads have explained that beauty is fleeting? And that your little girl has a sell by date for attracting the best MAN to help a female best use that 2+ years of society work? I’m guessing very few Dads on this board have actually explained Red Pill truths to our daughters about fertility and mating end games. No we tell the little girls and young ladies go off to that important University ride the carousel (not in so many words right guys – but play the field wink wink). Delay your fertile years until mid 20s. But wait you are not sure about Mr. Right? Go into corporate-land dear you will find a Mr Right there… and so on. Then one day boom princess is 35 and is desperate for a sperm donor and she has very little runway left to spawn the next generation.
    Women can’t do everything a man does… because our future as a culture DEPENDS on them having babies.

    Woman can’t “have it all”
    Men have the burden of performance to provide for the 2+ years a woman should be birthing the next generation. But weak men have allowed women to abrogate their 2+ year commitment. Men (either within a society or by invasion of another societies men) will change this dynamic. Women can’t be allowed to go open loop any longer without expectations on their end of the societal bargain. As I write this there is another thread on a military board about how young lady officers are all “meh” over the equal opportunity crap the DoD is talking. Because the precious ladies want to have families and not lose their promotion board position due to not busting their ass on tours (because you know they are having a baby). Boom – it hit me like an epiphany. THIS is why we can’t keep up with the myth of “having it all”. Because I’m sorry fertile women NEED to be having other priorities than officer board promotion rankings. And we don’t want to de-incentivize our MALE warriors by allowing the Females an easy maternity tour but same promotion opportunity.
    How many dads have explained that given life expectancies a woman MIGHT have it all but MUST plan for a family earlier than a career path may dictate? We can all expect working till around 70+ WHY must we brainwash our daughters into thinking they NEED career/educational goals met NOW while they are most fertile?

    Women can’t be allowed no fault frivorcing
    No fault divorce has become an industry and institution killing our families. The societal bargain is that women give up 2+ years of their lives for an expectation of support later when she is not as attractive and fertile. The institution of marriage should not be allowed to be diverted from this basic societal dynamic. Women have been allowed to use divorce as a reroll of their life outcome once they have perhaps had their first Man take the hit of supporting her during her 2+ year societal debt. Or we have allowed women to reroll divorce if they decide a non-wealthy man is not able to make a 2+ year baby time be worth her while.
    How many dads have explained to daughters that one day beauty and abundant male attention will fade? How many dads have explained that the true value of a husband is not how much he makes “now” but how loyal he will be once the kids are grown and the her youth and beauty have faded?

    I personally have a somewhat distant family member going through the 35 no kids no husband horror show. I make sure to tell my daughters all the grisly details of this relative and what her REAL TALK prospects in life now are. It’s interesting to see the collision of observing REAL consequences vs public school FI indoctrination within a young lady’s mind. Don’t let the females you have influence over be FI crash test dummies. Teach them well and early. Because Real Talk is that if they are over 14 and not with child then we as a society are already behind the overbreeding cultures that soon to swamp us just like Europe.

  2. “Roosh should call his stuff “Reactionary Red Pill” . . .”

    Pointing that out, or that he should just plain call it “traditionalism,” is why Roosh has accused the Manosphere of being the ones who turned on him.

    Oddly enough, the fact that it is reactionary is why Vox Day has supported him, and Roosh accepts that support.

    The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels.

    “Roosh also promotes “Kratom” on his sites . . .”

    That’s a paid ad. An infomercial. At least he’s labeling them as such now. When he first started running them he, ya know, “forgot” to mention it and they appeared as if they were actually articles.

    Even his own called him out on that bullshit and the kratom ads have become the butt of so many jokes that it’s turning into a broader meme.

  3. ” . . . our future as a culture DEPENDS on them having babies.”

    Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

    Yes, yes, the babies must be there, but if they aren’t taught the traditions of a culture, the culture dies no matter how many babies there are.

  4. After she acts manly ,guilt tripping,shaming or emasculating it is very unatractive. who would want to engage with that?That’s when I need to step up game and change things but don’t care to generally this self corrects or is forgotten.Internalizing TRP and game will prevent or slow down the ocurance hopefully.

    A truly wealthy man is one that knows when he has enough.Money is only worth what you can get with it.Fuck the more you get the more you need.Greenspan said his plan would have worked if it wasn’t for unbridled greed maybe he should have considered that in his plan.I make mine the old way plying a trade at market value,and changing trades every14 yrs or so to keep up with the market.Seems like PT Barnum is running the show and there is one born every minute,but be careful the easiest man to con is one that thinks he can get something for nothing.Just look at gaming fucking entertainment for the mathematicaly challenged.
    And the ‘trickle down effect’ is really a geyser.that takes a bite of every transaction.
    Done venting for now.

  5. @ Rollo Tomassi

    “I can show you post on SoSuave from 2003 where we were using “Red Pill” as an idiom then. Roosh neither coined nor invented the term.”

    Even if he did, I don’t really see how that would help someone’s case for having ownership of the Red Pill or being the arbiter of what the Red Pill is and isn’t, because philosophy is about truth, and no one has ownership of truth. Truth isn’t based on what a certain person says it is. It just is what it is.

  6. @Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy

    I hear you re the role of culture and its impact on young men. And there are still masculine kids coming through the ranks, but nothing on par with the 1930s for example. Declining testosterone levels are also at odds with the surplus of Alphas that should be walking around after a couple of decades of almost unrestrained hypergamy.

    Where I live I can see hypergamy in motion for myself – the number of single moms knocked up after short affairs with jerks is staggering. There are definitely a small percentage of men getting a shitload of poon. But their genes just aren’t shining through in the genepool. I lift regularly at a busy gym and its pretty clear that the most shredded guys are all 30 or older, with late 30s guys usually the biggest. There are young guys there, but their gains seem to be constrained by their frames.

    The interesting thing here is that apart from hypergamy fucking with blue-pilled romantic wish-fulfillment by men it might not actually be a successful evolutionary strategy for producing dominant males. This is in part due to unrestrained hypergamy going hand in hand with a society where the FI is dominant and many congenital Alphas have their urges suppressed by strong enforced female norms.

    Going back to that grandfather of mine. After a lifetime of fucking around, building his legacy, cheating on his partners in two marriages and really milking his social status for poon, he produced seven children in wedlock – five males and two females. Those five males are five of the most bluepilled, cuck-prone betas I know, to the point that I doubt one of their sexual orientations. Those five males have produced a grand total of two grandchildren, and the guy who produced those ended up getting uber-cucked.

    So maybe sexy dads don’t actually have sexy sons, and men are not just feeling the sharp end of a female reproductive strategy, but the sharp end of an ineffective female reproductive strategy.

  7. YaReally et al – I have a couple of other points to make but I just saw that Julien video you linked yesterday (about the ugly night club owner in Vegas who uses social proof and body guards to literally take the hottest girl to his table and then his office to bang them).

    I just wanted to add that you don’t have to be a nightclub owner or anything. A buddy of mine in a decent sized city (but no Vegas) used to be a manager of a regular nightclub – not the owner or anything.

    He used to do exactly the same thing without any body guards. He’d literally go up to the hottest girls and introduce himself in a context where he had massive situational value and say hello and ask if they wanted a tour of the club. He’d walk them around, take them to his office in the club and pull out his dick. That’s it.

    I forget the exact numbers now, but I think he said that IF a girl accepted the private tour, then it was almost certainly game on. Something like 80% of girls who came on the private tour gave him at least a BJ and I think about 50% it went to full sex. I don’t know how many girls turned down the private tour offer, but I don’t think he had any difficulty getting action any night he wanted it.

  8. And then I go to Return of Kings and I see his flying monkey brigade slobbering over a story of a drunk 21 year old girl who ran out of a party in shorts and a tank top, angry and out of control, in -6 degree weather and due to being so drunk apparently fell down or passed out, and then died of exposure. The feral peasants there are tearing her to shreds claiming they are glad she died and calling her a cunt. Because she was troubled. She somehow represents all women and their issues.

    Except that they didn’t say that she does. If anyone else is interested, the comments are here:


    If a 21-yr-old white guy died the same way, most of society, including the commenters here, would be instantly dismissing him as a dumb shithead who fortunately removed himself from the gene pool. But since she was an alcoholic, impulsive twat who meets her death due to her own monumental stupidity, she was “troubled”. And the next thing you know, “men” as a group will be blamed for her death, because they didn’t search for her, didn’t save her, didn’t cure her of alcoholism, didn’t marry her etc. Hell, this broad could’ve easily survived if she bothered to knock on any door and ask the residents to call a taxi for her (if she didn’t have a cell phone to begin with, which I doubt).

    Another article is about an American woman killed by a Senagalese immigrant in Italy after having sex with him, cheating on her boyfriend. Same flying monkey brigade talking about what a slut she was etc and the article goes on and on about how she had it coming because she took drugs and was out and about at night. They never mention which drugs,, interestingly. But the focus is because she fucked a black guy for sure.

    “Never mention which drugs”? Why does that matter? Again, if a 35-yr-old, jobless white beta exposed himself to similar types of dangers – I’m pretty sure Senegalese men are more likely to be infected with venereal diseases, and more likely to kill or beat their white girlfriends, than white men – and got killed as a result, nobody would sympathize with him anywhere. But yeah, I suppose if some American beta had manned up, found his masculine essence and married this woman when she was 21, and then none of this’d have happened, and anyway, why did Italian men let the migrants enter in the first place, so it’s ultimately men’s fault (or something).

  9. The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels.

    An ever bigger problem is that he’s trying to recruit useful idiots for his “movement” among one particular demographic: single, mostly white, middle-class betas. Unfortunately for him, the competition there is absolutely fierce. Other movements who want to recruit useful idiots, i.e. expendable foot soldiers in some new culture war, exactly from the same demographic, include:

    – feminists and SJWs
    – MRAs
    – tradcons
    – churchians
    – white nationalists

    …and probably many more.

    Roosh’s cult is really small fish there, and it’s not like the other movements have more hope of success. After all, none of them are able to offer any tangible incentives to these men. Hence we hear ever shriller complaints about Peter Pans, man children etc.

  10. @Ya & Culum – Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid, but that is to miss the point, yes? A couple of thoughts, tell me what you think, please.

    – Younger women expect more social status/value from an older man so if you go all court jester, it backfires. Already happened to me, and went against my instincts.

    – This is why the mentor role works so well. It assumes a frame of high value as young woman won’t submit to be mentored if she doesn’t think you are of high value. It’s not soft-sugar daddying, but you have to make them chase you for the mentoring. Make them ask you to do so. This is a natural play for me given my background and current work.

    – Situational value is not necessary to make this work, correct? Interestingly, I have situational value at a cafe in town where I know some of the young hotties who work there because I’m friends with, and have done some consulting for the owner. Do I also build situational value when I get to know the staff at venues?

    – An older guy has to make the girl qualify for him. The “you’re too young”, immature, not experienced etc are key disqualifiers to use early on. You have to present as aloof, with amused mastery and also be direct with your approach. Anything less lowers old man value dramatically. Am I tracking or full of shit?

    Back to work.

  11. @Hollen – Look up the word “implication” and have a nice day. Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out. You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall. I know that you think that’s just peachy, but in the real world such politics and ideology makes you a cretin.

  12. Scribblerg, some interesting points there. First, I should say I’m 36 so my perspective on this is from dealing with 18-19 year olds.

    That said, I see your point. I don’t like to think of it in terms of what a young girl “expects” because that is falling into HER frame. But yes, a girl who likes a 40-55 year old doesn’t like him because she likes 6 packs (she gets much better ones from 22 year old guys) but because she likes his confidence and frame and experience.

    I don’t want to get metaphysical on this distinction – we can agree that an older guy needs those things to succeed.

    The mentoring is fine (and I agree with you), but the importnat thing is that it comes from the right frame – you’re not exchanging the mentoring for sex – you’re a hot older guy who turns her on AND can offer mentoring (sort of as if she was hot so you banged her, but she ALSO turns out to be fun to have dinner with as a bonus).

    Blackdragon’s blog had a really good post and comment thread a few months ago about sugar daddy dating and I posted a lot about my experiences. There’s also a 50 year old guy called Dawson Stone who posts there who has mastered the mentoring/sugar daddy dating stuff – read his posts, because he understands how to do mentoring in this context.

    Situational value always helps. Whether it is “necessary” depends on the exact girl and circumstance, but you will always benefit by having situational value. YaReally’s archive has LOTS on this and he does indeed spend a lot of time getting to know staff at venues – it’s well worth it.

    And I agree on your final point too. Those are important skills in pickup generally but more so for older guys.

  13. @Ang & KFG – I agree that in part it’s the fault of men that women have run amok. But I also think this is where people overplay the role of the FI in a sense. The radical egalitarianism and collectivism and materialism (in Hegelian/Marxist sense of the word) of 19th century political and moral philosophy, which destroyed classical liberalism, created such a fertile ground for the FI to run amok and for cultural nihilism that I don’t think seeing culture without these factors is a complete analysis.

    Some say the FI gave rise to these developments – I’m not interested in arguing that anymore here, I disagree and will leave that aspect alone. The larger point KFG makes is brilliant – the culture is decisive. Babies born into a low culture, one not informed by the classically liberal humanism of the Enlightenment and reformed Christianity will lead to more civlizational decline. But it’s also true that we must reproduce and that our post modern/post structural, marxist-progressive culture has detached us from “nature” (using that term in the classic philosophical sense) that we are now acting against our interests wrt reproduction in myriad ways.

    Just consider abortion and immigration and Progressives. We killed 58,000,000 babies in the womb since Roe vs. Wade, so now we need workers to build the tax base to pay off our debts and afford the massive entitlement state they built? So we let in 40 million peasants from tribal, low cultures in 50 years – unprecedented in our history, fyi – and expect that to just be okey dokey? How about we stop killing our offspring?

    When I say this to Progressives they look at me like I’m insane, lol. Yet it’s their hands that are covered in blood…And no, noting what I just did does not make me “alt right” or a demand I become a race realist.

  14. See, it looks to me like her mouth is saying “Come here and fuck my pussy.” But maybe I’ve been watching too many bad lip syncing videos.

  15. Is a false choice. Blue Pill idealism (making women our reason to live) or nihilism? This implies that the only idealism possible is having a Blue Pill marriage.

    As Red Pill guys, we know the story. When a man discovers that he cannot have a Disneyesque marriage (because of the FI), he loses the reason to live, the will to live. He feels void and despairs. Been there, done that.

    But historically this is an anomaly. Men didn’t put their reason to live in a woman. They made God, nation, being a patriarch or having a mission the goal of their lives and women were only desserts.

    The last decades rejected patriarchy, religion, nationalism and any other ideal. The elites wanted us tame. So what they fed us instead? The dream of a princess and a Blue Pill family. This is the only dream possible now. So when we realize is a lie, we despair. Today’s man wants to have a woman as the goddess of his life and despairs when he sees that women are only … women.

    The solution: put your faith and your hope in something that is worthwhile, not in a bag of genes ruled by hypergamy. In my case, it was God. For the non-religious, they can try an ideal, a mission. And women? They are only desserts. Enjoy them but don’t give them an importance for which they were not designed.

  16. I respectfully would add step 3: learning that Blue Pill existence is anything but ideal. It is, in fact, a state of wretched slavery in which a man sacrifices his deepest biological desires, his dreams, his independence, his friends, and his lust for adventure in order to satisfy his woman’s deepest biological desires. It sets him on the treadmill of endless, mindless, purposeless work, stress, and unfulfilled longings. The FI blue pill conditioning is so sinister and runs so deeply that blue pill betas actually come to believe the fraud that the woman in a LTR is the one who sacrifices the “glory” of work — O’ women are so manipulative — and that men OWE them for their tremendous sacrifice of NOT working!! The blue pill is wicked. It is fraud.

    The blue pill conditioning is not only cultural, it is written in our laws. If you divorce, she will get the home and kids. Why? Because in the Gynocracy women and children are deemed more valuable than you. You are a worker provider. You will pay child support based, not upon the needs of the children, but upon your salary and your ex will not have to account for spending it. If you were a hero beta provider and let her stay home, well then you must reward her for not working by paying her alimony, often for life. I know men who pay upwards of $40,000.00 per year to their lazy brood sow. That’s right – a $40,000.00 per year for life award for NOT working!!

    Blue pill existence is not ideal. The blue pill men I know chafe at the bit. They are not happy. But they don’t know of a way out and I gave up long ago pointing the way out.

    Divided Line — do you really want to live in the obese haze of the cave?

  17. @scribblerg
    “Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid”

    Only if you stop listening after the Dre story and miss the part where he experiments with the frame itself 😉 His point is that it’s the FRAME that matters. The owner of the club has the right frame because he knows he’s got value there, whereas you might walk into the same exact club but the bouncer was a dick to you and you’re there without a friend and you’re way older than everyone else and you couldn’t get your hair just right tonight etc so you don’t feel as high-value as the owner does. This is why we try to get guys to learn to base their value internally, so that when you walk into that club, against ALL LOGICAL SOCIETAL VALUE SYSTEM STANDARDS THAT YOU DON’T MEET, you feel as confident and entitled as the owner of the club (on some nights where I’m doing short-set method (bouncing from group to group with short interactions), girls ask me flat out if I own the club or am a manager or something lol).

    Now the guy who climbs a mountain and fights in a war might have amazing situational confidence in those situations, but throw him in that guy’s nightclub and that confidence isn’t likely to carry over (despite what the keyboard jockeys say). And that nightclub owner would shit a brick in those other situations. But that nightclub owner picked a lifestyle that helps him build the confidence and entitlement, along with a system (using his bouncer to fish for girls), to get top shelf pussy. That’s great, but you don’t HAVE to do that. HE doesn’t even HAVE to do that, he could probably cold approach girls in his club and do just fine, or take them home instead of for a tour of the club and bang them, but he’s lazy and has found a consistent easy method of having his bouncer bring him girls and taking them into his office. All those are though is “social proof” and “isolating”. If you can demonstrate social proof a different way and isolate a different way and you have that guy’s confidence/entitlement, you’ll get the same results. That’s where thinking outside the box comes in and you look at “okay well how can I get social proof like that, and where can I isolate to bang a girl in this bar while she’s still in state?”

    “Younger women expect more social status/value from an older man so if you go all court jester, it backfires. Already happened to me, and went against my instincts.”

    It’s more about where you’re coming from. You don’t have to be the stoic aloof one-word response serious-face old man…Russell Brand isn’t going to be that lol It’s more about “are you being a court jester (trying to say/do things to impress her or keep her attention (which subcomms that you feel you’re not enough as-is and think she’ll walk away if you stop entertaining her, and she picks up on that and follows your lead because what you feel she feels)) or are you self-amusing (saying/doing those things to make yourself laugh)?”

    Most guys who feel lower value than the woman (ie – most older men hitting on younger chicks) go court jester mode because they feel they’re at a deficit and they have to try to “convince” her to stick around. Listen to what Julien’s experiment was like, is he asking the girls to stick around or trying to entertain him? No he’s even doing the OPPOSITE, he’s disqualifying them with shit like “Too young. You can go now.” or “Too indecisive, I don’t hang out with indecisive people.” etc. That’s coming from a frame of “I have way more value than this silly little girl, she’s LUCKY if I ALLOW her to hang out around me, and she’s not even GOOD ENOUGH to GET to be around me”. It’s not specifically his words, it’s his overall frame.

    Nightclub owner has the same frame, where these are just silly little girls to him and his value, as the owner of the club, is lightyears beyond theirs. It’s not that you have to own a nightclub, it’s that you have to learn what your ACTUAL value is, by the value system that girls are ACTUALLY attracted to, not society’s blue pill value system of looks and money. Society has spent your entire life trying to convince you you have no value because then you’ll marry a fat 4 who doesn’t put out and you’ll work a shitty job you hate and you’ll buy a bunch of consumer products trying to fix yourself and fit into that value system, because if you realized that just AS A MAN you have inherent value way beyond some silly little girl, society would crumble lol It’s very important that you never view yourself the way the nightclub owner does without owning a nightclub, because if you own a nightclub you’re at least contributing to society.

    But if you were just some fucking jobless bum and still viewed yourself as entitled to bang the hottest girls and that mentality spread, it would be chaos for society. We have an unwritten societal rule: you have to earn things and sacrifice yourself for other people’s interests and waste your entire life chasing shit you don’t need and if you manage to do it, THEN you’re ALLOWED to feel like you have value. Until then, you are a fucking WORM. DON’T approach that girl, you aren’t GOOD ENOUGH. You’re a piece of shit. But if you buy our product or earn enough money or wear this suit or get that 6-pack, THEN you MIGHT be allowed to feel like you deserve that girl…until that product is outdated or you start to lose your hair or you gain a few pounds…then BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL FOR YOU, MAGGOT. MAYBE if you claw your way back up, we’ll let you feel good again…like those hot girls who we tell, from birth, they’re special snowflakes and they’re allowed and encouraged by everyone to just feel good all the time because they have a vagina.

    Julien’s point is that you should view yourself the way that guy who’s earned all that shit is “allowed” to view himself…because girls don’t actually care if you OWN the nightclub, they care that you have the same subcomms as the guy who DOES, because that implies you have high-value.

    “This is why the mentor role works so well.”

    Mentor role isn’t a bad thing, as long as it’s not costing you anything and she understands it’s a gift and luxury to be allowed to have that from you (VS you trying to sell it to her) and that when she fucks you it’s because she’s sexually attracted to you and the emotions you give her. But really what is the mentor role when you boil it down? You tell her what to do, you scold her when she’s retarded, you help her grow bla bla. All of that is just leading, emotional rollercoaster, etc. Like it’s a convenient system for delivering some high-value demonstrations, but it’s those high-value demonstrations that are attractive not the mentoring itself.

    “Situational value is not necessary to make this work, correct?”

    Here’s the mind-fuck: all “situational value” is is giving yourself permission to be entitled/confident like the nightclub owner. We hype it up as this “bartender in his bar” “mountain climber on his mountain” thing, but the reality is what those guys are doing is looking to the environment for permission to feel high-value…so when it’s THEIR situational environment, they feel they have permission to feel high-value…when it’s a different environment, they don’t feel they have that same permission. So ultimately it’s a weaker form of confidence because if their value was internally based they would be “situationally confident” in EVERY situation because they already have permission to be that way.

    This is again why I stress building guys up with the right internals and forcing them out of their comfort zones. A lot of early PUAs and newbies in general build their confidence up based on their looks, clothes, money, etc. and it creates a trap where when they don’t have those things they don’t feel entitled to be that same way. That’s what Julien is talking about here when he says to purposely destroy your comfort zones:


    Now you can overtly demonstrate that value (aka standard DHV’ing) in various ways, but just having the frame will get you a long way. In Julien’s example, he had enough value by default with just the frame to hold the hot girl for a bit, but to actually get her he had to ramp his value up with more overt DHVs. He probably wouldn’t have to do that for like a 7, but for a really hot girl she might need more DHV’s. But again, there are other ways to DHV besides owning the nightclub…think about it like this: even IF you owned the nightclub, no one KNOWS that…you would have to find ways to make these girls KNOW you owned the nightclub? How would you do that? Well the guy in the story is probably sitting in a private booth, and he probably has a well dressed bouncer-esque guy bring the girl over. Could you duplicate those things yourself? Or DHV in other ways that are equal value to that? I’m not saying pretend you own the nightclub, but like, even THAT guy who owns it still has to find ways to DHV that he owns it and is high-value, and PUA gives you a zillion tools to DHV high-value.

    Here’s Tyler and Julien explaining “The Hub”, where they basically create a shitload of social proof in one area (also see the Julien infield at the start for an example of hard emotional impact as he destroys the girl he’s talking to lol, followed by hard leading etc and her actually calling them “sexy” which defies all blue pill logic lol but she’s going by their subcomms and the emotions she’s being made to feel):


    The point though, is that you can create value anywhere when you understand what DHV’s are and how to do them. Tyler and Julien are basically doing what the nightclub owner does, having other people bring girls to them. When you get to SHIFT you’ll see Julien’s infield where he merges sets into eachother and skyrockets his value to all the girls, it’s awesome to watch and entirely possible to duplicate when you understand what’s going on and why it works.

    “Interestingly, I have situational value at a cafe in town where I know some of the young hotties who work there because I’m friends with, and have done some consulting for the owner. Do I also build situational value when I get to know the staff at venues?”

    Ya, but remember value doesn’t mean shit if you can’t display it. If you make out with a 10 you have crazy value to everyone watching, but if you then go into another room none of those girls have seen you make out with that 10. You might carry over some subcomms because you feel like a boss having made out with the 10 in the other room, but like, you’re still going to have to understand how to DHV. When that nightclub owner goes to your cafe, no one knows he owns a nightclub…he might carry some subcomms over but if you’re a regular there it’s likely that you actually have more confidence/entitlement in that cafe than he does. When you understand this dynamic you understand why most guys at the bar stand around in chode crystals scared to do anything, they don’t feel entitled to be that way in that environment especially in a venue where like, they aren’t dressed right or don’t fit in in some way.

    But if you can base your value internally so that none of that shit matters, then when you walk into the cafe, the nightclub, etc wearing whatever and feel as entitled as that nightclub owner. That’s why it’s so important…ya you can just “get laid” faster/easier basing your worth on externals, but you’re going to have a weak internal frame in the long-run if you go that route.

    “An older guy has to make the girl qualify for him. The “you’re too young”, immature, not experienced etc are key disqualifiers to use early on.”

    Yup. The biggest shift for older guys comes when they stop saying “I’m probably too old for you” and start saying “you’re probably too young for me”. That’s when they’re coming from the right frame of “I’M the one with the value, she has to impress ME”. The very fact that you would disqualify a hot girl IS a DHV because only a guy who has an abundance of girls like her would disqualify her…even guys OUT OF HER LEAGUE will chase her and try to qualify themselves to her.

    “You have to present as aloof, with amused mastery and also be direct with your approach. Anything less lowers old man value dramatically. Am I tracking or full of shit?”

    ehhh, you don’t have to be aloof. You can be very engaging but just disqualify her as a sexual interest based on whatever silly shit. Like, you can demonstrate a ton of value to a little old grandma but you’re not considering her as a sexual option. View it like Clooney, he might shake a lot of hands and be engaging with girls, but he’s not necessarily into all of them, they have to impress him first…it’s not about just being the silent one-word badass (even tho that’s the type of personality Julien chose to run his experiment with because it’s funny to him to just say as little as possible).

    And you CAN go direct, but like, indirect is fine too…the old guy who knows everyone and is telling interesting stories etc, she’s going to end up sitting next to you trying to get your attention etc. The problem with direct is it forces her to make a snap judgement…which is okay if you wear your value on your sleeve (like you’re a known celebrity or whatever) or you happen to be her type visually (but even then it’ll be a pretty inconsistent hit or miss numbers game).

    Part of why Mystery works the group and ignores his target is that ya ignoring her builds attraction, but while he’s ignoring her to engage her group he’s also giving her the opportunity to OBSERVE his demonstrations of higher value. She sees how he wins over her friends and his social proof and preselection and how he handles shit-tests etc, so then she CHOOSES him and is chasing his attention/validation. I think that’s optimal for an older man, personally.

    Right now in the city I moved to I run ice cold approach with zero value “cheats”…I’m purposely not getting to know the staff much, I’m purposely not building a social circle, etc. I just like the challenge lol I’m a Thrill of the Hunt guy so I have more fun building my value from scratch every night using whatever’s around me, than I do just like, socializing with friends and pulling some chick that’s heard about me from a friend of a friend. What I’m doing is probably the least efficient way to get laid, but it’s fun to me and it helps my skills stay sharp because I have to bring the whole arsenal out every night. I can go direct or indirect but I prefer indirect because I’m planning to be single till my late 40s bare minimum (probably longer) so I’m already trying to get good at the type of game I view myself doing when I’m that age.

    So when I’m 50 the game I’ll be running is building up my value in the venues, getting to know all the staff and regulars and building social circles, and my method will simply be to go hit those venues and socialize with the people I know, DHV’ing all over the place, and bring random girls into the conversations just in a social way and just being 1% cooler than the other guys and let the girls observe me DHV’ing and then screen them heavily disqualifying them and getting them to chase, then reward them for some arbitrary thing and let them “win” me. VS going direct or still doing cold approach (because I’m already doing my cold approach now). That’s probably the most efficient way to get laid in your 50s without needing a lot of game.

    Those girls probably wouldn’t see me standing there by myself and choose me over the other guys in the venue…but the more they observe me DHV’ing, the higher my value rises, until I get to where the manager is, because the manager is shaking my hand and calling me by name and buying me a drink etc. It doesn’t matter if I’m a fat ugly 60yo man, if the smokin hot 18yo bartender runs around her bar to jump on me and hug me and the manager shakes my hand and a shooter girl comes over to hug me, girls will look past my looks even if it’s just to find out who exactly I am…they may interact with me fully guarded like with zero intention of banging me but just wanting to know if I’m someone they should get to know for networking etc purposes…but that’s where all my years of PUA come in, to turn that tiny opportunity into solid Attraction. 🙂

    “I don’t like to think of it in terms of what a young girl “expects” because that is falling into HER frame. But yes, a girl who likes a 40-55 year old doesn’t like him because she likes 6 packs (she gets much better ones from 22 year old guys) but because she likes his confidence and frame and experience.”

    Right. It’s not that you HAVE to have those things to be attractive, it’s just that like, the reason she’s talking to you instead of her 18yo peers is that she kind of assumes that you’ll have things those guys don’t, like a strong frame and mentoring vibe etc That’s why a lot of old guys can’t GET those girls, because they’re old, ya, but they never really learned anything about themselves because they didn’t go sarge for 10 years, so they have weak internal frames…they have the same shitty internal frame that her 18yo peer has. That’s why I dominate guys in my age range, like, a hot-shot high-energy early 20s young dude is some actual competition for me, I have to bring my A-Game. But other mid-30s guys? I’m almost embarrassed for them…even if they look better than me (which most of them do because they’re in society’s value system that tells them they better lift and have nice clothes ’cause they’re old), I can make them qualify themselves to me and AMOG them and befriend them and play with their frame and show the girls that they have weak frames and just be 1% cooler and less reactive than them and the girls gravitate to me over them. I often joke with my buddies that the other guys in the bar make us look GOOD, but I’m not really joking lol

    I’m not saying I’m a god or anything, but like, really LOOK at the mid-30s guys you meet. Most of them are either shit externally AND internally, or look great externally but have shitty weak internals like an 18yo because they’ve never pushed themselves in social situations and around women and fall into the same weak patterns and self-defeating mindsets.

    “The mentoring is fine (and I agree with you), but the importnat thing is that it comes from the right frame – you’re not exchanging the mentoring for sex – you’re a hot older guy who turns her on AND can offer mentoring (sort of as if she was hot so you banged her, but she ALSO turns out to be fun to have dinner with as a bonus). ”

    Good frame. The sex should ALWAYS be because she’s attracted to you…the exchange she gets for sex is that SHE GETS SEX TOO, from an experienced older man who knows women’s bodies and has a strong dominant frame and shit. SHE IS LUCKY TO FUCK YOU lol Most of those kids with their 6-pack abs have shaking hands when they try to take the girl’s bra off. She’s not with you because of your old man body, she’s with you because you have all those other things that make sex for sex a fair exchange. Anything else you can offer, like mentorship, is a bonus AND she has to EARN it (by being a quality girl, not bringing you drama, having a good attitude, not taking you for granted, etc)

    “Situational value always helps. Whether it is “necessary” depends on the exact girl and circumstance, but you will always benefit by having situational value. YaReally’s archive has LOTS on this and he does indeed spend a lot of time getting to know staff at venues – it’s well worth it.”

    Right…I can’t think of a situation off the top of my head where situational value DOESN’T help or has a negative impact. So like, chat up those waitresses and bartenders and shit, there’s no real downside to it especially as an older man. I’m doing this ice cold right now because I am a retard who likes the challenge and gets off on walking into a venue as an anonymous nobody and trying to tear it down lol

    “The solution: put your faith and your hope in something that is worthwhile, not in a bag of genes ruled by hypergamy. In my case, it was God. For the non-religious, they can try an ideal, a mission. And women? They are only desserts. Enjoy them but don’t give them an importance for which they were not designed.”

    Yup. This is what we teach in PUA (and MRAs, MGTOWs, TRP, Manosphere, really everyone teaches this now). Can’t be stressed enough. Your purpose is your purpose…HER purpose is YOU. Or as Patrice O’Neal says it: she LOVES you and you LIKE her.

  18. @scribblerg @culum
    More tips on creating the kind of high value that a nightclub owner would have so that you become the “guy to know” in the room even though you’re just some random dude:


    Julien’s SHIFT infield has excellent footage of him executing this merge sets stuff.

    In that video he’s describing this documentary thing so you can see the infield he’s talking about (at 6:10, the set starts at exactly 6:16 when the white shirt guy (the future RSD instructor Max in his chode days as a student lol) is shaking the orange hoodie girl’s hand, compare that to what the final set looks like when Julien gets his number):


    When you just watch the infield it’s like “oh that’s cool maybe he’s good looking etc” but when you hear him explaining how he’s doing that (merging sets forward) it’s more clear what’s going on and how he ends up with those girls around him (doing a lock-in against the wall, classic Mystery Method, don’t forget these basics they’re important DHVs) and why the girl initiates the phone number exchange (as far as she knows he’s this guy surrounded by girls, why WOULDN’T she want to go party with him?)

    Also lol at the reporter guy’s mind exploding watching all of this. That’s basically what guys around us look like when my buddy and I (two very average looking dudes) are doing our thing. Like “wtf is happening?? I wore my nicest shirt that shows off my biceps and these chicks are up on THESE guys?? DUMB DRUNK BAR SLUTS!!!!!” lol

    But when you understand the dynamics of social proof and preselection and merging sets and locking in and leaning back and all the little subtle things Julien is doing to DHV, what’s happening makes complete sense.

    Here’s some Mystery infield (Mystery with no peacocking):


    Listen to the description of the students watching, Mystery and Matador are talking to the bartenders and stuff before they even get fully into the bar. At 1:16 Mystery moves in for a hug, scolds her when she doesn’t hug properly (he’s got an effeminate vibe but he’s still leading the interaction, Julien might say an abrasive “you hug like a grandma” and an aloof laconic old guy might say “what is that, try again.” dominantly, but the point is Mystery is executing the same concepts as a guy who views himself as high-value, but with his own congruent vibe).

    But from there, Matador brings girls over, now Mystery is socially proofed to the girl he’s sitting with, and Mystery has locked in which seems like not a big deal at the moment, he’s just sitting there…but when her group comes BACK and Mystery PRO-ACTIVELY brings himself into the set (lots of guys will passively let the girls yap and fade into the background), negs the girl for her social faux pas knowing she can take it, and the whole thing turns into what you see at 2:08 – 2:20 where the girls are touching him and all leaning into him.

    Any girl (or guy) who sees THAT scene in a club? THAT guy looks like he’s the owner of the club or as valuable as him. It doesn’t matter that Mystery is just in a normal shirt or that he’s not very high energy (compared to a lot of PUAs who are all over the place, Mystery is pretty calm and lets a lot of silences hang etc) or that he isn’t jacked or if he was 50 it wouldn’t matter (he’s tall, yes, but he’s sitting down and Julien is only like 6′ max, and Tyler and the other guys and myself and my buddies etc can all duplicate this so it can’t be chalked up to “he’s tall”) etc, all people especially women register in their hindbrain is “THIS guy is high-value because he has 3 girls all leaning in chasing his attention…I’m curious what THAT’S about” and once he has them intrigued it’s just running game from there to fan that spark into a bushfire.

    But he’s not doing anything that Julien isn’t doing and they aren’t doing anything you can’t do, even if you don’t own a nightclub. This is just understanding the basics of pickup and applying it strategically. 🙂

  19. (also it’s important to remember that Mystery doesn’t drink, Julien doesn’t drink, Tyler doesn’t drink, Max doesn’t drink, Todd doesn’t drink, like, the only money you have to spend to do what these guys are doing with merging sets and everything is cover to get into the venue if you live near them and don’t have to pay for travel costs…and if you have a venue with no cover, you can just GO OUT and have hot girls UP ON YOU like this, for FREE, just by understanding the strategy and psychology that PUA teaches…you can do this THIS WEEKEND if you want, it’s all right there in front of you to play with, there’s no barrier to entry)

  20. @Ya – More to come. I’m inspired so i’m heading out to my fave cafe to finish up the day working there, and to work the young student hotties and staff – one of whom I’ve worked up into a lather but haven’t been able to isolate.

    So much of what you said resonates and makes sense. Fucking it up like I’ve been doing is necessary to “get it” though. While I’m not looking to “challenge” myself the way you are, I do find cold approaching is the best way to reveal my fucked up internals, and those internals sabotage me anyway as I move through a set. I actually know at some level that i have a lot of value but it’s in conflict with all the social conditioning/shaming (the guy who brought up shaming upthread is genius) which has been shoved down my throat and is reinforced in the culture.

    What’s super weird for me is that I’ve accidentally done some of the things you talk about when I was younger and at a visceral level know you are right. Working mutliple sets, ignoring women i’m interested in until they express interest, actually BEING of high value – I get it. But I was never systematic about it. And since I’m older now, I’ve just written all that off to the advantages of being younger and don’t feel of value anymore. In fact, my entire approach until recently was an ego buffer to keep the fantasy going of being this “older player” when in fact I’m nothing of the sort.

    Not anymore…He he. FRs coming.

  21. Somehow this came to my inbox and I had to share it. This is what women spend money on, especially up here in crunchy, progressive, “strong, independent woman” country in Southern NH (same politics as Vermont). Look at the title “Lover Yourself Women’s Event” – the speakers are “angelic hearler & medium”, “spirit medium” and “compassionate clairvoyant”. You don’t see men doing this shit.. I notice this crap is also almost the exclusive preserve of post wall women, not young women. It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot – your focus, anything but women as crucial for a man. Perhaps this a compensation women are making who have rejected traditional religion and men? They crave something, anything so badly – they’ll fall for this crap. Just amazing. It’s also wrapped around narcissism, sigh…


  22. I just reflected on something I did in the past five years and wanted to share it in a comment. YaReally and Scribbler talked about mentoring young women game. There is another side of mentorship that is very important to young men and that is for a man to get a male mentor to become more masterful at something. To get more masterful at game to meet and attract women. To be more masterful at LTR’s from a male mentor.

    I had a great experience in me obtaining two mentors back then, 4-5 years ago. One was in deer hunting habitat and expert chainsaw work, felling and cutting trees, including a unique way to “hinge cut” medium and small sized trees to tip them over and have them stay alive to provide cover and habit for deer at their level on the ground. The other mentor was in farming, agriculture, life balance between city and country, and also older man red-pill awareness and game.

    The reason for some of you guys to go out and get a mentor is because it is fun. It is exciting and brings a feeling of enthusiasm for game. Look at ScribblerG’s last post. Don’t you think he sounds excited to get out and game with PUA after being mentored by YaReally. Why do you think I post so much shit here? Because I like hectoring guys like Andy? No, it is because I think it is fun and I’m an enthusiast of red pill awareness and game–because of Rollo Tomassi’s mentoring. I love it.

    I suppose some of this pick a mentor idea also ties in with Rollo’s essay “The Art of AMOG”.

    The following is adapted from Julian’s Shift on getting a mentor. What he advises is what I did 4-5 years ago with these two mentors I acquired by my natural social ability back then (I’m not as ill adapted at socializing as I seem. I actually get out from behind the keyboard and run a business, have a billion outdoor pursuits and indoor hobbies–like manage a farm for wildlife habitat and communing with mother nature, as well as ply a lot of hobbies).

    I met and didn’t hero worship these guys who were apex men at what they do. I didn’t project I was a fan. They don’t want to be personal friends with a fan. No apex guy does. They were the “same” as me. I didn’t pedestalize them.

    In order for me to learn from these guys I had to see their successes and their failures and I couldn’t do that if I sucked up to them as a “fan” of theirs. I was normal around these guys and that gave me more value and I stood out. Since I was normal around these guys, they felt like they could have a normal conversation with them and that made them feel nice.

    Asking for someone to be a mentor never works. You are asking what you can take from them. You can’t do that.

    (See the picking up women PUA game parallels, anyone?)

    I offered value because everything is an exchange. For one of these guys I asked myself what can give him, what does he want? For one of these guys I knew it was time and physical work. I walked up to him at a presentation he was giving at a deer hunting co-operative meeting and offered him that I would drive an hour and a half to his hunting property and fell huge trees on his hunting property in a project he was doing to clear the over-story mature canopy of trees to enhance the woods below. I told him that I ask for nothing in return. I just wanted to help him because I knew he needed the manpower for that project. Turned out to be the most valuable education ever for my pursuit of safety and efficiency and mastery over using a chainsaw, and after that my skill really escalated up the learning curve.

    For another guy I offered companionship and a nascent red pill awareness to hanging out, exercising, hitting the cigar lounge in the dog days of winter and also deer hunting, farming and masculine guy networking. Turns out he was an INTJ personality, and if there is anything an INTJ revels in is hanging out and talking to another INTJ type with the same passions and pursuits (here being the pursuit of deer habitat, hunting and red pill game of which he was an enthusiast of also).

    They didn’t need more of what they had knowledge and mastery of what they were already good at. I gave them other things than I came to them for as a mentor. I offered value in other areas. A win-win situation. (ScribblerG doesn’t need to be told more about socio-politics or parental alienation. YaReally doesn’t need to be told more about PUA game. Rollo doesn’t need to be told about red pill awareness, or evo-psych or behavioral psychology or branding or ad campaigns.)

    I made it easy on them when hanging out. I didn’t tell them my life story. They don’t have the time. I made it straight to the point, always, so they could deal with it fast. I asked easy questions at first. I didn’t just ask any question, I asked precise questions, which wouldn’t wear them down. Doing this helped them invest in me. Since I asked easy questions, they would think these will be easy to answer and they won’t require a high level of energy investment. Therefore the were more likely to help me in the long run. I didn’t just ask any fucking question. The main thing about having them as a mentor was just being around them. Questions are secondary. I made it a point to observe and stay around them. I did have the social intelligence and added value to make these mentors my friends. I didn’t ask too many questions at the wrong time and I was at the time a person they would want to hang out with.

    Furthermore, I never complained, never was negative and never sucked energy. I was fun, vibrant and positive. I smiled and laughed a lot.
    Whatever it took to get in close, I did it. No matter what it was. (I even went to one deer hunting celebratory get together with both mentors last Feb 7. On the way there I got word that my father passed away and that my mom was in a good place and didn’t need me that day. I proceeded to the party and it was one of the greatest get togethers I pretty much every had– and there was zero downside and infinite upside to proceding to the party–a true Stoic win).

    I was willing to pay the price. I would drive hours, do free labor, do bullshit tasks on their farms. No matter what the fuck it was. Being around for some time was priceless to them.

    So in trying to get a mentor you should, as Julien says: “Get on their radar. Don’t be leachy. Offering values, don’t ask specific questions related to the area of mentorship. Think of what the mentor would need from you. You must have resources. You should help him out. You should have time.
    Focus on providing value. Why should they take you? ”

    Go out and get a mentor. It ends up being fun. And you might just acquire a bit more mastery.

    And don’t hesitate to use these tactics on AMOG’s in real life or some of the commenters on The Rational Male in your virtual space.

  23. scribblerg, I’m sure that women attending the event will have more than one emotional pop, maybe a spike or two, perhaps from a Tarot or Rune reading, perhaps from a make-up session followed by a glamour photo. If nothing else, the pub is open in the afternoon. So they’ll get to have a little emotional roller coaster ride, and maybe bring a trinket home as a souvenir.

    In other words, women will be women, rather than be men. It’s a feature.

    Maybe you should go, just in a mode of self-amusement. “Oh, Tarot and Rune reading? What nonsense. Everyone knows that palm reading is where it’s at, give me your hand…no, the light isn’t good here, come over to the other side of the room with me…”


  24. That’s a great post about mentoring SJF. Good summary. I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

    (Also the above shows why most organized mentorship programs like you sometimes see in large companies etc don’t work)

  25. kfg
    Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

    How do you know this to be true?

  26. @Culum

    I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

    I actually don’t have the patience for the videos (nor the need for single guy game) and somehow I came across that in a PDF notes file attached to “Making a SHIFT”. I recognized in reading it, in retrospect, what I had done to have these mentors/great guy-friends. And you can see the obvious parallels to pick up artistry.

    Note: PUA game is fungible for all relationships and all pursuits in life as well as for my LTR married man game. And it is invaluable.

  27. Love Yourself

    This is Justin Bieber’s latest single (currently 3rd on the Billboard charts):

    Cause if you like the way you look that much
    Ohhhh baby you should go and love yourself

    which means go fuck off

    His #1 single, Sorry, taps in emotionally, and his go fuck off song hits with “bad” emotions

    Sign up to the Go Fuck Yourself Women’s Event, space is limited

  28. @SJF, epic mentoring comment. I’ve done similar, and the results are exactly what you state – knowledge, money, friendships, memories. One trait that makes this easy for me is I’ve naturally been empathetic and curious about other people and generally find a way to like almost all people. That goes a long way.

  29. @Anon – That event will be attended by cossetted, post-wall women who I can fuck pretty much at will if I’d like. The chances of <25yo hotties being there is exactly Zero, lol. I'd actually read Rollo's chick crack post a while back, and that's kind of why I posted it. The spiritual angle is a good one, when I was a buddhist chicks would get all moist over it. Anything magical gives them a spike, gotta get their fantasy hamster going.

    Just pussied out on making a cold approach on a 22 yr old HB8. Very public setting and people I know working here, and i hesitated and told myself it would have been weird but actually not. If I had just waved her over to my table it would have been fine. I hesitated, then got all caught up in my head, and boom, dead. Just have to fire the round as soon as I get the impulse. Next…Demonstrating a lot of value with the staff, pretty dead here and I do have work to do…

  30. @AR: By studying the history of traditions. Having lived in what we call “traditional” cultures. By noting that I am, culturally, firmly rooted in 20th century New England, not the Rhine delta of the 3rd century where my father’s family came from. By knowing second generation Chinese girls who speak fluent Valley Girl, but virtually no Chinese. By knowing army brats who are never able to fully assimilate into the country of which they are actually a citizen. By knowing that even non-human animals can be taught culture. By knowing the culture I was born into and comparing it to the culture now in the same place and having lived through the change. Looking at the children and already being able to see that the culture is going to change again. Into a culture that when I was born was considered an enemy culture to my own.

    Note that I do not know that the human mind is a tabula rasa. That idea is patently absurd. We do not, for instance, have a hibernation culture anywhere, not even in the arctic, because we do not have the physiology of bears. I am not claiming that biology does not matter.

  31. It feels hopeless and i am definitely cynical. I’m in the process of unplugging and i find myself married a year into a relationship with a hb 8.5 women who has two kids before me, she’s still “attached” to her ex, she’s recently physically abusive and what brought me here was searching google looking for advice from other men who were in my situation. I put up with so much bs from her thinking she was the prize, she even talked me into meeting her ex which led to him hitting me in the face and me giving him 23 stitches between the eyes and sending him to the hospital, after we were done fighting where was she? Standing next to his side asking if he was ok. I am in shock…the more i sacrificed for her the worse she treated me. The better i tried to treat her the less respect she had for me. Until recently i was a total chump white knight afc beta…i’m pissed and now treating her like shit. And what reaction does she have? Fresh home cooked meals every day, foot rubs, initiating sex constantly, steady streams of affection and “love”…I’m sick. I know i need to divorce. I’m a lost soul who no longer gives a shit about the “dream”. I havent told her i love her in over a month and i keep telling her its over but she clings on ever tighter. What do i do? Where do i find the courage to walk away from something that was never what i deceived myself into thinking it was?

  32. @ScribblerG

    “It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot – your focus, anything but women as crucial for a man. Perhaps this a compensation women are making who have rejected traditional religion and men? They crave something, anything so badly – they’ll fall for this crap. Just amazing. It’s also wrapped around narcissism, sigh…”

    It is one thing to make yourself better as a man. And it is an entirely different thing, then, to relate to the feminine in a relationship.

    Women are like that and we have to go with their flow, which is mostly to be “filled up with something” just want to be filled up with love to be complete (chick crack is a surrogate in the single female), rather than us men just wanting to be “emptied”, and to be released from constraint. To accomplish our mission, to figure out our shit.

    It is what sexual polarity with women is all about. The more we want them to be like men the more we are sacrificing the sexual polarity that is necessary in a disirous inter-sexual relationship.

    Sure, make yourself better and pursue your mission statement, but when you engage with the feminine, you need chick crack in your skill set to fill up the feminine in them. It’s called chick crack for a reason.

  33. ” “Never mention which drugs”? Why does that matter? Again, if a 35-yr-old, jobless white beta exposed himself to similar types of dangers – I’m pretty sure Senegalese men are more likely to be infected with venereal diseases, and more likely to kill or beat their white girlfriends, than white men – and got killed as a result, nobody would sympathize with him anywhere.”



    Motherfuckers just can’t help themselves. It’s a never ending cycle of amazement.

  34. kfg, do you know of any sons who act like their fathers or grandfathers? Know of any daughters who act like their mothers, aunts, grandmothers?

    In your opinion, is any percentage of a human’s behavior inherited?

  35. Ya says-

    ” But if you were just some fucking jobless bum and still viewed yourself as entitled to bang the hottest girls and that mentality spread, it would be chaos for society. We have an unwritten societal rule: you have to earn things and sacrifice yourself for other people’s interests and waste your entire life chasing shit you don’t need and if you manage to do it, THEN you’re ALLOWED to feel like you have value.

    Until then, you are a fucking WORM. DON’T approach that girl, you aren’t GOOD ENOUGH. You’re a piece of shit.

    But if you buy our product or earn enough money or wear this suit or get that 6-pack, THEN you MIGHT be allowed to feel like you deserve that girl…until that product is outdated or you start to lose your hair or you gain a few pounds…then BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL FOR YOU, MAGGOT. MAYBE if you claw your way back up, we’ll let you feel good again…like those hot girls who we tell, from birth, they’re special snowflakes and they’re allowed and encouraged by everyone to just feel good all the time because they have a vagina.”

    Internals. Can’t be overstated.

  36. @camarowoes@gmail.com

    that’s a tough situ to be in, but at least you are taking action…your options are stay married or get divorced…if you are going to stay married…you will have to alpha up…

    if you are going to get divorced, do it asap…the longer it goes, the harder it is to untangle your situ…and from what you’ve said (and your attitude), this seems the best course of action for you…

    also, be aware that it’s possible/likely that she’ll be looking to have an ‘oops’ pregnancy…

    good luck!

  37. FR: 25 yo hb7, nice body. She sits down not to far from me with a huge sigh and of course, I approach based on the sigh asking, “Wow, what is that all about?” I never have trouble opening when it’s even partially easy to do so.

    Get her talking, laughing, sharing about her life. Build some value with my biz and how I help people. Get her to open up about how stressed she gets sometimes. Going well but I detect some resistance as I escalate – all very subtle. Then she mentions the BF. She complains he’s too friendly with other girls sometimes, I tell her he’s gaming her. We talk about how different male/female sex drives are. I’m getting warmth but no backflips. He’s a “good guy”. I agree, I tell her that I’m a dog. Doesn’t go over too well but I don’t get pushed off, tell her to come close and say, “My lovers don’t say that”, she laughs. When she returns to her spot I say, “It’s only middle aged women who do” she laughs again.

    Number close seems wrong. Figure out a lot about her, may see her at the yogaspace she goes to (starting yoga, which i used to do as a rock climber, going with my wing 1-2 times a week, it’s great for flexibility and meeting women). She has to go to work so I just say bye.

    Very public setting. Hard to escalate, hard to get close. Felt great though, good pacing, recalibrated a couple of times. I withdrew 4-5 times making her continue the convo. But no number. Next…

  38. @Camaro – Dude, welcome. Married guys here will have better insights but some thing jumps out at me. You are done, you know you are done. Detach, stay cool, make a plan and move on – on your own terms. Learn from this. Also, record everything – are you in a one party or two party recording state? Be alone with her as little as possible. Don’t be alone with her kids or ex. Work late, do things with friends, take up a new hobby. Don’t play Daddy to her kids anymore (if she turns on you a child abuse charge is incredibly hard to defend).

    And the next time anyone does violence to you, call the cops, and just defend yourself, don’t fight back hard. Get a felony put on them – and then an order of protection. You need all the evidence on your side so you can walk away clean. Contrary to what people might think here, I de-escalate violent situations most of the time. Having experience with violence, I know it’s no joke – it ain’t TV. People die sometimes from a single punch in the face, they black out and hit a curb with their head and boom, gone. Broken jaws, noses, hands, ribs – all require lots of mending. Also today, laws are so fucked up, even just returning aggression can get you a felony.

    Fyi, if you are broke, look up legal aid. Or buy “Divorce for Dummies”. If you have little communal property and no kids together it’s easy. You don’t need a fancy lawyer. I got a “cookbook” on divorce that had worksheets and figured it all out before seeing a lawyer. I highlighted the important bits and told my ex we could either negotiate reasonably based on the law or let what little savings we had be chewed by lawyers – her choice.

    But your wife is nutz. Also, stop fucking her. Now. She’s controlling you with the sex and you have to cut those wires. But be calm. Just fade, don’t make a big scene or escalate. Always de-escalate and when out of hand, record and exit.

    I also don’t see the downside of moving out unless it’s your house. But even then, contrary to what crazy people in the Manosphere will tell you, she will not get your house after living with you for one year. They are not your kids so and if there is little community property, you don’t have much to worry about. If you fear for your safety, pack a bag and go stay with a friend. I also think some distance from her will do you some good. You need to file as soon as possible.

  39. I watched the Julian video posted by YaReally above: “You’re Not Your FUCKING Khakis: How To Destroy Your Comfort Zone (Fuck Situational Confidence)”

    That is the TL;DR version of some things expounded on in two very important masculine self improvement books. It is indeed the essence of the keys to the book “Antifragile” and how to overcome an addiction in “The Biology of Desire” (the addiction here being one’s one old blue pill self), and how to SHIFT into a new PUA self.

    Some readers here may benefit from the very long DO READ books that I reference and you see references to here often.

    In the book “Antifragile” (which indeed Julien has read and has referenced), Nassim Taleb describes how some things benefit by shocks. They thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder and stressors (and love, adventure, risk and uncertainty).

    Antifragility is beyond resilience or robustness. The resilient resists shocks and stays the same (your old ego-investments in blue pill, your ability to suck at game by not getting out there. Your old key-board jockey self. Your want to preserve your old order because it doesn’t hurt). The anti-fragile gets better. This is different from robustness or resilience in that Antifragile system (getting out and practicing PUA improves with, not just withstands, stressors, where the stressors are neither too large or small (like ScribblerG is doing right now in that cafe). The larger point (as described by Taleb) is that depriving systems of vital stressors is not necessarily a good thing and can be downright harmful. Exactly what Julien and YaReally are really saying.

    Moving on to the “Biology of Desire: Addiction is not a Disease by Marc Lewis”, your old self with lack of game is stuck in an addiction because of safety of singular ways of thinking you are stuck in a rut and can’t rock yourself out of it.

    The TL;DR:

    His basic account of the brain activity of addiction is that a feedback loop develops between the striatum – the motivating organ in mid-brain that is fired by dopamine – and the dorso-lateral prefrontal cortex, which shapes goals and methods of reaching them. When our goal becomes the relief from underlying anxiety that can be temporarily gained through the object of addiction, and we keep getting the dopamine hit of a goal fulfilled, the neural pathway between the two becomes ever more strengthened and alternative goals gradually become less powerful. Lewis also explains how the neural pathway also gradually shifts its location as addiction proceeds, so as to become gradually less conscious and more compulsive. The grey matter that provides reflective awareness in the prefrontal cortex decreases, as we descend to increasingly automatic actions dictated by our lower brains.

    But Lewis also tracks the process of recovery. Some addicts may die, but those who recover first hit a rock-bottom moment of exhaustion in which the full consequences of the state they’ve got into, and the possibility of getting out of it, are somehow recognized. The brain is still flexible enough to rebuild itself, and more positive goals provide a perspective that enables recovering addicts to re-frame the addiction as a diversion from those goals rather than an all-encompassing need. As Lewis makes clear, recovering addicts do not suddenly start to ‘control themselves’, nor are they cured by drugs or medical interventions. Rather, they reframe their goals. The practices of meditation and mindfulness (Ed. and Learning Game) can be very helpful in doing this.

    Somebody else said in a quote somewhere in regards to the right and left brain “concept” (admittedly a slight non-sequitur to my narrative here):

    ……what differs in the hemispheres is not what they do, but how they do it. The left is a predator and a laser beam, the right is holistic, mindful, and like a lantern. How I interpret this for our intents and purposes is that both sides do addictions: the left hunts highs, the right creates an addict identity, and both together facilitate the marvellously entire learning experience. Marvellously tragic.

    You got to shake your old ways of doing things out of their stupor in the fog of war and be clear in your mission and your sexual strategy, and in your desire to improve.

    Addicts, in order to recover, and men not scoring pussy as easy as they should or want to, need to shift to a bigger motivation for living their lives without addiction (the blue pill addiction).

    Reframing is essential to PUA Game and PUA game is fungible for any man’s game.

    So you really don’t have to go read these books. Unless you are slow and need the long version. Just listen to YaReally and be a believer.

  40. @Camaro,

    Cosign with scribbler’s comment. Your wife either has an IQ of 30, or she’s a psychopath. Women who know men intimately know how to push their buttons and know what will provoke them to physical action. The fact that she encouraged you to meet up with her ex, when she knows the temperament of both of you, tells me that she was probably screwing with both of you and either wanted to see a physical confrontation between you two, or expected it might happen and did not care.

    Protect yourself now.

  41. @AR: As to your first question, you have asked the wrong one. The correct question is do I know any identical twins separated at young age, preferably at birth, who act like each other and like their birth parents.

    And the answer is that I do not know any, but I know that such comparisons have been done and that there is a better than chance correspondence, but not a determining one. The tendency is there, but it does not rule.

    With children who grew up with their parents the correct question is are there any who do not act like their parents and siblings and to seek out why. Parents are a vector of both biology and tradition. Separating them is, as the kids these days say, problematic. There is much more to be learned from the black sheep.

    As to your second question, certainly, although the negative cases, such as hibernation and flight are easier to point to.

    I think chief among them is . . . wait for it, wait for it . . . how much of our behaviour needs to be taught. There is nothing like it in the other animals and it is key to the adaptability that has allowed us to span the globe, both east-west and north-south.

    I appear to have turned the question on its head.

    Another is TRM itself. If certain behaviours were not biologically innate, we would not be here discussing how to handle them, although even here man’s animal nature often goes overlooked.

    Behaviours related to walking on two legs, having close range stereoscopic vision, to being a predator, to having an equatorial origin, to being a mammal, to being able to use symbolic abstracts, and to speak them; all have biological roots and components.

    To the question of nature vs. nurture, I answer: nurture within natural constraints. Some of those constraints are very hard (and may take the positive form expressed as drives), and some of them not so much.

    And now I will ask a question that you did not, but perhaps should have:

    What is meant by “culture?”

  42. You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall.

    I’m not a Christian. Organized Christianity in all of its forms has become a vehicle for gynocentrism worldwide, and for that reason I reject it.

    Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out.

    Maybe in another universe I’d not be okay with it. But in the current reality, I understand that such forms of expression become inevitable when the mainstream media suppresses all manifestations of sex realism and race realism, and thus leaves many people with no outlet besides a handful of blogs and websites to voice their opinions. RoK and CH wouldn’t exist without cultural Marxist media hegemony, because they’d have no audience to begin with.

    On the other hand, I won’t believe that you’re actually bothered by nastiness and rabid hatred per se. After all, you’re obviously OK with spewing nastiness and rabid hatred at MGTOWs, race realists and anyone who doesn’t follow your idea of masculinity.

    That drunk broad who froze to death, and the other one who was murdered by an African, obviously don’t represent all Western women, and nobody said so. What they do represent is the overall mentality that is becoming normal among Western women due to cultural conditioning and unrestrained hypergamy – ignorance, lack of self-respect, lack of concern for their own future and safety, amorality and hedonism. We’ll inevitably see more of these incidents, where clueless women end up getting killed one way or another due to their own thoughtlessness and solipsism. It’s also inevitable that the mainstream media will make an issue out if it, and blame it all on “men”, even though these women have nobody to blame but themselves.

  43. “because girls don’t actually care if you OWN the nightclub, they care that you have the same subcomms as the guy who DOES, because that implies you have high-value.”

    the guy who “owns” the club doesn’t even own it. odds are he borrowed money from a bank to get the lease and build it out.

    he borrowed money from the bank to meet early payroll and the liquor is delievered with 30 day terms.

    the guy who gave him the lease borrowed money from the bank to buy the land and put up the building and the guy who delivered the liquor borrowed money to build his distribution company.

    odds are they will all go under and have different businesses in five years.

    it’s all a mirage. women could not care less about financing structure, interest rates or who really “owns” what. they just want tingles.

    debt money is fake. “ownership” is fake. in way there’s nothing but “fake it til you make it”

  44. @Camaro:

    When I first went to a divorce lawyer she told me, “Normally I would advise clients to stay in the house for legal reasons, but in your case we need to get you out of the house now and worry about the legalities afterwards.”

    The second biggest mistake I made in my life was waiting two years to take her advice.

    But at least she was primed and waiting to deal with my situation when I finally did.

    Get legal council now and get prepared while your wife is playing good girl, so that you can jump with 60 seconds warning when she stops.

    The 60 seconds is not hyperbole. It may, in fact, be too generous.

  45. The first time she struck me I just sat there dazed like wtf just happened. We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again. Well it happened again about a month later, then again about two weeks after that. On the last occurrence I called the police and while she was laughing about the whole thing like It was a joke they showed up, she admitted to striking me,and she was hauled off to jail. The first person she called in jail was her ex, he didn’t answer so she had her best friend bail her out. The next day while I was at work she came by my house and got all her stuff. We didn’t talk for a week after that and like the white knight that I am and against my better intuition I asked her to move back in with me knowing that it was a bad idea. That was about 2 months ago. The thing that scares me the most is the fact that I still want to be with her that there’s some part of me that wants to give her another chance. Is that oneitis? After all the stuff that I’ve put myself through the loss of sleep anxiety getting sick feeling depressed is it because I’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that as a man I’m somehow supposed to just deal with it is that the reason why something inside of me continues to tell me that this is the way it’s supposed to be? The information I’ve learned over the last two months here has opened up my eyes and my life is never going to be the same.

  46. And an off-topic observation concerning the dominance of the female imperative. If hypergamy is winning, and women are out there riding the alpha cock carousel and generously rewarding the Alphas, bad boys, douchebags and jerks with pussy time – why is the first generation of males birthed by these women the biggest bunch of pussies in human history?

    You can blame the feminized culture to some extent, and the comfort and ease provided by the West, but even physiologically there is a noticeable increase of scrawny, slack-shouldered, oval faced kids.

    That noticeable increase probably took place in your vicinity, and similar neighborhoods. On a societal scale, the simple fact is that such faggots belong to a disappearing demographic, the middle-class. They are being outbred by the lower classes and also the ruling class. Most of these scrawny kids will have only one child, or no children at all. Even if they marry, they have a high chance of getting cuckolded.

    There should be a shitload of sexy sons walking around in this climate of unrestrained hypgermany and dominant FI. Where are they?

    – in graveyards
    – in prison cells
    – in garbage bags collected from abortion clinics
    – in discarded condoms
    – in the ghetto
    – in trailer parks

  47. “We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again.”

    We how about you promise us that you will never do that again….talk for three hours to the feminine.

    Everything you just said is easily explained in great detail by Rollo Tomassi’s 450 essays. Too bad you don’t have time to read them.

    Welcome here as a reader and a commenter. We feel for you. But as guys i n a group of men, will challenge you. You will want to offer your brutal honesty (as you have already done) if you are to grow. We respect that, but don’t expect us to let you off the hook.

    Your capacity to receive any messages here is a measure of your capacity to receive masculine energy. And masculine energy is a good thing (…….and that is a message you won’t receive anywhere else in today’s modern society)

  48. @Camaro: “Is that oneitis?”

    Yes, and perhaps even worse. I’d like to tell you to snap out of it, but I know you can’t. What you can do is do what you should no matter how much you don’t want to. Yes, it will be very, very hard, but it is possible.

    And believe it or not, you don’t need easy, you only need possible.

  49. At Hollen-scheisse-hound

    You waded into a deep hole of shit there.

    On the wrong blog, with the wrong topic, among the wrong group of men.

    Stop. Put the shovel down. And stop digging.

  50. @Camarowoes

    “After all the stuff that I’ve put myself through the loss of sleep anxiety getting sick feeling depressed is it because I’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that as a man I’m somehow supposed to just deal with it is that the reason why something inside of me continues to tell me that this is the way it’s supposed to be?”



  51. @Camaro

    i dont’ have a lot of time to write up a proper response right now, but wanted to address this so you’re not hanging…and i’m sure the other men here will weigh in too…

    “The thing that scares me the most is the fact that I still want to be with her that there’s some part of me that wants to give her another chance. Is that oneitis? ”

    like kfg says, it sounds like it’s something much worse…asperational beta syndrome (ya, i just made that up…but i needed a term to describe this…)…oneitis is where you pretend that she’s ‘not like those other girls’…and excuse her bad behavior (pretend it didn’t really happen)…

    this is worse bc you actually KNOW she IS like that (and worse…) but you STILL want her back…

    these two ideas come from the same place – your FEELINGS of lack of worth/worthiness…(notice i did NOT say your ACTUAL lack of worth…).

    this is straight up FI…and that pain you are feeling is ‘the matrix’ (FI) trying to prevent you from unplugging…

    i need more info (well, actually ‘I’ don’t bc i have a pretty good idea of what you’ll say…but you need to have some facts on the table, so you can examine them…)

    how many other girls have you been with?…how many were as hot as this girl?…how many other girls do you BELIEVE you even have the potential to even go out with? (bc there really are LOTS of hot girls out there…and yes, even for a man like you…)

    my guess = a low N count… and not as hot…and not many…

    and the MOST crucial question = WHY don’t you value yourself enough to reject this girl?…or more accurately – choose yourself over her?…the answer is probably straight up FI…

    you CAN do it…and this site is a great resource for support…but the hardest thing you are going to have to do is TRUST that it’s possible…

    good luck!

  52. @SJF

    Man, I don’t talk race stuff normally. I make it a mission not to. 90% of the time when confronted by some measure of fuckery, I keep it moving.

    Then there’s the 10% that I don’t.

    I used to go to Roosh’s and CH’s blogs because there was some good stuff there. I overlooked the racist crap for the most part ( especially with CH because he was a brilliant writer/idiot savant…lol ) but whenever I made the mistake of wandering into the comment section, good God. They talk more stupid shit than I thought was humanly possible by supposedly ” higher IQ ” folks.

    I’ve been called out by Roosh and CH in the comment sections of their blogs, so I guess it’s an honor of sorts. Ha ha haaaa. I was banned from Aaron Clarey’s blog for comments I responded to, not with cursing or disrespect, but because a differing narrative would not be tolerated.

    I am a huge defender of people’s right to freedom of speech and thought and belief, but I also believe in calling out ignorance when it rears it’s head as fact. Not I, or anyone I ever knew was ever subject of any study or poll or whatever, so when a dude makes a statement like Senegal men more likely to have venereal disease… and I happen to KNOW quite a few actual Senegalese men ( whereas the commenter probably does not ), well that shit makes me want to pipe up. And I know, there’s a ” study ” somewhere that they can pull out of their asses to back up their assertions, but there’s studies to validate practically any position one chooses to take. High(er) IQ individuals should be expected to understand this. : )

    Because of the region of the country I was raised in, I just happen to really dig diversity. I do not have an issue with anyone who does not. Different strokes. But when CH states ” proximity equals war ” or some such shit, I’m like ” Really man “?.

    Anyway, that’s all I gotta say. This is part of my 10% comment. Hollen is my brother as a man. He’s just a brother I disagree with strongly ( and one who’d have me ejected from the table at Thanksgiving ).

  53. @Camaro et al – Remember he said she’s an HB8.5. I know what it’s like to have a hot wife and to walk away from that isn’t easy. Especially when she’s begging you to stay, blowing you and fucking your brains out and putting on lingerie etc. My ex did the most amazing 180 once I put my foot down on her awful treatment of me – but she did not hit me. That is a red line for me, due to the abuse I suffered as a child.

    A few questions:

    – Is the hottest women you’ve ever fucked? Do you fret that you’ll never get as fine a piece of ass as her? I felt the same way – and I was wrong. You likely are too.

    – The hitting. We aren’t women, we don’t have to flip out over this. Some people grow up in violent homes or come from cultures where hitting is more accepted. The key is if she is willing to get professional help? Note that if she is Borderline – read Rollo’s post like your life depends on it – the therapy will likely not help. In fact, if that is her actual DX, many therapists will refuse to treat her because they know there is little they can do.

    But that is also changing, do your research. Some BPD people can be reached. My bottom line would be that she has to be in real therapy and that you have to meet with therapist too and express your “red lines” and she has to agree to them. Any further outburst of violence to you or the kids and it’s game over. And it’s likely game over anyway but I don’t council throwing marriages in the garbage like old shoes.

    – Being a step-dad to another man’s kids. I don’t know how to say this gently. You will never be their father. There will always be conflict. It will not be like having your own kids. He will always be around somehow. Even if you have your own kids with her, it will still always be a fucked up family. Is this what you want?

    – How old are you?

    Finally, before doing anything else, go to the top of the page and read Rollo’s essays from Year 1 and 2 to catch up here. That alone will change your life.

  54. The more I read Camaro the more obvious it becomes that he’s dealing with an abusive BPD.

    Read this, save your life:

    True BPDs progressively convince their victims that they are the source of her neurosis. You are not yourself, you are who she’s molding you to be, and eventually you’ll come to believe that it’s in your best interest – indeed, your responsibility – to be who she wants you to be to sustain that neurosis.

    You will gradually give up on your family and friends (or they give up on you), you will drop all ambitions and passions that directly focus on you, and you will abandon any genuine, independent identity you held for yourself, all because these are threats to the neurotic narrative she constructs for herself and lives out.

    She will reward your conversion to her psychosis with the intermittent reward of crazy hot sex, but this is simply the reinforcer to keep you locked into her narrative. The YOU you know will cease to exist and the character she creates for you will take over. This is especially true for beta chumps who see their BPD as their best, only option for a long term romantic prospect. She’s an HB 9 (to him) and he’s never fucked better than a 5 in his whole life, so the risk of catastrophic loss is real and ever-present. It’s fate that brought them together, and if he can only help allay her fears they can live happily ever after.

    In the latter stages of a BPD relationship you will get to the point where her overt cuckolding of you is an acceptable situation. You think you’ll mitigate it by negotiating some “open relationship” status with her. You will internalize the reasoning that negotiating for her desire is preferable to losing her. You’ll propose that an open relationship means you’re both free to fuck other parties, when in reality it’s the only way you can rationalize for yourself the fact that she’s going to go fuck other guys, and you’re going to accept it because you’re locked into her neurosis. It’s your fault she feels compelled to fuck other guys – and you’ll believe it.

    […] For a guy so accustomed to her neurotic behavior, his first impression is that she’s making some real change for him in order to “improve the relationship.” It’s not, but so radical a shift in her behavior will convince you otherwise, and cause you to doubt her deception, particularly when you yourself have no options and believe you’ll never do any better than her.

    Get out, now.

  55. I’ve read every link each one of you have shared with me. Thank you.

    I’ve had 31 partners in my 30 yrs on earth. My current wife really is the most attractive I’ve ever been with, she’s also educated and is about to enter med school to be a pa, though she keeps putting it off for different excuses. She’s crazy in bed and initiates sex constantly. I would rate my wife an honest 8.5-9. The next hottest girl ive been with was probably a 8 and she was very crazy, a liar and cheater, crazy outbursts and such, but I stayed with her for 2 years before I detached and kicked her out. I haven’t been single since high school, I’ve tried but it never works I just can’t help talking to women and I love the attention. From the links you guys have shared am I wrong to deduce that I have no self respect? Here’s another strange aspect, I’ve broken up with all my previous gf’s…I’m not lying. My gut tells me im in need of some extended vacation from women to get to know myself. I’ve been totally compromising myself for years. And obviously I’m seeking out and settling for these destructive life draining personalities. In my credit I have had a couple of normal relationships where there were no bad fighting or yelling. Damn I had no idea swallowing the red pill would change my life like this. I’m learning so much about myself. Getting out of this marriage and righting my life is going to be the scariest thing I’ve ever done, but I don’t sense that the fear is real.

  56. @Blaximus

    My argument is that the American broad who got clipped in Italy has exposed herself to increased danger by getting involved with an African migrant. She increased her chances of getting raped / killed / infected (both by venereal diseases and other types), because migrants from Africa and the Middle East are statistically more likely to commit such acts than the Italian men who lived around her. Simple as that. If you really dig diversity and know many Senegalese men, supposedly all of whom are in good health, that’s great. But none of that is a reason for me to change my argument. And no, I wouldn’t ban you from the Thanksgiving table (where does that idea even come from?).

    If race realism and MGTOW philosophy are taboo subjects here, I don’t mind that. But when I come across the mentality of “we should be free to shit on group X and condemn them in various ways, but we won’t tolerate them making their arguments here”, it reminds me of HUS. And I’m pretty sure Rollo doesn’t intend to imitate Aunt Giggles.

  57. @ Camaro,

    Since you are new here and have read all the links thrown your way, and based on what you just said, this link is indispensable:


    Unless you feel that real power is possible in this relationship (and even then that might be an illusion), you know what you need to do.

    Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

  58. Yes she is the hottest I’ve ever got and yes the fear of never getting another as hot as her is a fear. I thought I was a lucky guy until I started having anxiety attacks due to months of hellish stress and lack of sleep. Now I’m just drained and she’s trying to make me feel guilty about giving up on our marriage. I gotta get the divorce papers tomorrow, I’ll schedule a free class to fill them out. I’m going to appear strong through this to her, but inside I’m a wreck. I’ve read the bpd link Rollo posted,that describes alot of weekdays going on.

  59. @Hoellenhundz2

    I don’t get the impression that anything is taboo here. I engaged in some of the MGTOW talk because it was interesting conversation. I didn’t take anything as ” shitting ” on anyone, but there were/are strong disagreements, and that led to men hashing it out.

    Am I wrong? Was the discussion too harsh in some fashion?

    As for Race Realism… well, you can imagine that I have strong opinions there. I wouldn’t ever have the subject banned or otherwise negated, but from my viewpoint, I personally get tired of the subject popping up consistently in my every day life…. much like feminism/FI chatter. I’m not an enthusiast of equalism, but I don’t think race has much to do with anything… but I understand that many people believe the exact opposite.

    It just seems like a shame imo.

    And btw, I figured that as a race realist, you wouldn’t want me at the T-day table because, you know, all of the bad stuff my ” race ” may represent.

    But I ate lunch daily with a bonafide White Supremacist daily in high school, so anything’s possible. Lol.

  60. At hoellen-scheisse-hound,

    It is well understood that there are no taboo subjects here.

    But imagine you were at a Thanksgiving table (but….maybe you don’t know what that is like…… It is pretty powerful stuff….), or a dinner party anywhere, where there was a group sitting at the table that had their “family way” of thinking and behaving and being respectful of the group. And you proceeded to be a dick to all of them. You really want to continue the conversation that nobody else wants to have?

    Rollo is well spoken on diversity in his professional dealings during his career. If he was at the dinner table he would laugh at you. And say “Really?”

    And I would hope, then proceed to have a WordPress “Dislike” button on his blog. For the masculine way of men.

  61. @Hollen – You argue like a 10 yr old girl.

    MGTOWs are welcome here. If they start yapping about how we are all pussy beggars and controlled by women, I tell them to go fuck themselves.

    Race realism is horseshit and basically a whitewashing of ignorance, hate and bigotry which has no place in a civil setting. Period. Dot. End of sentence.

    Why? Three reasons primarily:

    1. Any serious study of race and how humans vary by race shows there is more variation within races than between races. On every count – IQ included. This alone makes the idea that race is a good dividing line or that our innate differences make it bad or impossible for us to live together quite ridiculous.

    2. Specifically regarding black folks and their alleged defectiveness, one then has to explain the explosion of black prosperity in the North in the U.S. from the late 1800s through the 1950s. Go listen to Thomas Sowell’s life story. Look at unemployment, criminality, family formation, criminality, education, wealth, civic engagement – blacks made amazing progress in our society during that time period. How could a genetically defective people do this? And then you see it turn down, more on that in the next point.

    3. The collapse of the black community is more clearly understood by seeing the collapse of the working class. In Charles Murray’s Coming Apart (an amazing book that anyone who wants to understand what is actually going on in the working class in our society should read), one can see that the white working class suffers from the same problems/social pathologies and failures across the board, but only to a slightly lesser degree. He did this on purpose to avoid all accusations of racism after his great book on IQ and the differences between peoples, The Bell curve. Sure, there are some innate differences between the races and in fact it’s likely true that Asians have a genetic basis for having higher IQs than western Europeans and Africans. But that it is not something that make us unable to function along side each other.

    Fyi, the collapse of the working class is largely due to insane immigration and trade policies that began in the ’60s, as well as to the social pathologies of Marxism, progressivism etc. But still, if the economic fabric was not ripped out of the working class, it’s unlikely the welfare state and the collapse of the family would have occurred. Looking at the data, you can see that family does better and better as wealth increases. In the upper middle class we saw a dip in the ’70s and than a return to high family formation. But hey – I use real data from actual sociologists, you listen to ignorant bigoted cunts on blogs and YouTube to form your views.

    The classical liberal society we built emerged in part to allow different groups of people to interact and cooperate in a large civil space in society. It’s used to be well understood that these same people might privately associate with those they are similar to ethnically, due to common culture and higher trust relationships that exist there. But to be exclusive, or to claim one group is irredeemably defective is simply ignorant and is destructive to a society that has always found a way for different cultures to mix and cooperate at different levels.

    What’s been destructive are the ideas of egalitarianism and multi-culturalism that have been a vehicle for denigrating what is amazing about Western, classically liberal Enlightenment values. These were in part developed by reformed Christian religions but were also humanist values that flew in the face of Christian dogma. What early Americans were able to do was preserve Englich culture, Dutch culture and German culture and Italian culture and different religious sects etc. operating in private settings, while those same people would cooperate in communities or between communities for the greater good of society. But where I do agree with my fellow right wingers is that all groups who come here should assimilate to those values, not bring there tribal, peasant values to us. We should manage education and immigration to ensure this occurs – but we’ve done the exact opposite.

    The basic comity of American society is violated by race realism. And this is my last comment on the topic because I don’t argue with bigots. All I have to do is think of my amazing black sister in law, who could likely kick your ass Hollen, after a lifetime in law enforcement at elite levels and possessing a black belt in martial arts – she’s now finishing her PhD, and my half black niece, already at the top of her martial arts class at age 6. And academically too.

    But I get it, redneck cracker motherfuckers need to feel superior, so they become race realists. Fuck every last one of them, and you.

  62. My favorite anti-racism thought is that, in reality, I have more perspective in common with black men, than I do with white women. A black man has the same burden of performance I do, the same biological needs I do. No woman knows these things.

    In reality, I should feel far more kinship talking with men of any race, than with women of any kind.

    Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.

  63. “Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.”

    Pareto Principle. 80% of people are the masses.

    Only 20% of people can deal with diversity. For the top 20% it is No Big Deal to have diversity and inclusion as is the nature of The United States of America and the melting pot as described by Scribbler above. The bottom 80% of dumb-shits ruin the narrative.

    I frankly grew up in a non-diverse community forever and when I hit the diverse population in a certain segment of my life in a certain segment of my profession when I was 25 years old, guess what?. Not a antagonistic bone in my body in regards to ethnicity and race, because I had no preconceived notions other than: the content of one’s character was what mattered to me as a judgmental SOB INTJ guy. I fucking love Non-Diversity but have no ill will for diversity. (But then again, I’m well past a couple standard deviations in thought on philosophy, psychology, spirituality, the physical world (mother nature) and experiences in life. I try, which is more than most on the Pareto scale.)

    And I get it shoved in my face with Social Imperatives, Feminism, and racialist blacks. I turn the other cheek when someone judges me an old white, UMC guy because I am in the “service industry”. You can’t judge someone that doesn’t have a bias.

    I am race and ethnicity neutral. Show me your character and I will judge you. So goes this blog. If I was indifferent I would show it. I am not. This blog is too important to not show that certain lines of callous (showing or having an insensitive and cruel disregard for others) thought will not be shut down by a few (like me, Scribbler and Blaximus).

    “This is my last comment as well on this topic.”

    Yes it is. Thank you for saying that. Plenty of other places on the interwebz to get your “therapy” on and you feelings out there. Race realize all you want. This is not the place. This is a forum for red pill awareness. And masculine self improvement.

  64. @camaro: best of luck. I met a bpd/npd chick last spring. I quickly determined she was nuts. NEXT. This from a guy who had no decent role models.except.a grandfather 4k km away! Needless to say its been a long hard slog for me. I’ve had to figure out most of the important things in life by myself. No help. My brother topped himself. My other brother, a cousin, is trapped in the blue pill. I hardly see him. What I’ve consistently seen in myself is a greater and greater ability to roll with the punches, maintain frame and make solid rational decisions. We, as men, have it within ourselves. It’s their; strength. Inside. No where else.
    .That bpd broad led me to the manosphere and rollo. I had the inner frame to see this broad for.what she was but I was left with nagging questions. I got answers here but it has been bitter and difficult to digest.

    The russians have a saying: steel is strong because it has known fire. You are the steel being forged. Through this process you will go from scrap metal to 400 grade and beyond. I see it in me. I’m the guy that makes psychiatrists cry. Nearly died 3 times by 16: bleeding, drowning, auto collision at 60 mph. ID’d my older brother in a morgue. That’s for starters. Statistically, guys like me end up in prison, cemetaries or on heroin. I learned love.from animals.because the environment my brother and I grew up in was devoid of love and kindness. Growing up as harshly as I did left me with an inability to say no to women. That caused me huge problems and suffering.
    I’m finally at a point where I can rationally pursue my interests. I don’t talk about what Ive been through to people. I’ve mentioned some stuff.here a while back and I got a great response. I mention it now because I truly believe any guy who tries can break his own chains. If I can do it you can to.

    @scrib: you are so bang on. All I can do is add that I am compelled by Flynn (the Flynn effect). The more we are engaged and challenged the more intelligent we get. I’ve read some stuff in evo-psych and genetics. I think the genetic stuff re:race is inconclusive. Anyhoo, thanks for you FR, thoughts, etc. I’m currently trying to figure out an approach to a women in her 20’s. I’ve seen her twice socially. I’m not nervous just not sure on method. In the past, I just isolated, intuitively/naturally charmed them and things went well. I teased, charmed and.flirted. It always worked. Now I kinda feel a bit lost in self-awareness.
    Paralysis through analysis perhaps.

  65. “If we could just figure out away for a woman to wake up in the morning and scratch her balls i think this would solve a lot of problems.”


    The masculine is what it is the is the feminine is what it is. Embrace Polarity and seek equilibrium, not equalism, and the complementary nature will function just fine. You do not want women to be logical and equal to men. There are not problems that are not understandable in red pill awareness, only solutions. Solutions with Game. Lower your hurdles by your mindset. Stoicism solves the high hurdle frustration. Low downside, high upside.

    It has already been figured out. Master game.

    Women need to be feminine. Be flighty like the wind, be kindly to the masculine, not be tough like a weight-lifter and be complementary to the masculine. 90% of life is masculine, the other half is feminine.

  66. The problem with “diversity” is that what is shoved down people’s throats, the notion that “diversity” is some form of strength.. well, that’s a lie. There is no historical record of a culturally diverse body of people surviving together long-term. Culture, shared values, these are what binds people together and creates trust between strangers. You can’t have a strong society without trust between strangers.

    Racial diversity is not the problem, should never be the problem. The problem is that every person who will preach about diversity to you will also try to convince you that any standardized or primary “culture” is something horrible that must be excised. This is the lie that makes people dismiss all arguments for “diversity”, because it tries to convince them that how they were raised is “wrong” and should be sublimated for other cultures.

    America is supposed to be a “melting pot”… what happens to things that melt? They become homogeneous at some point, that means a shared culture, whatever that culture ends up being, it should be shared. In today’s modern west, no one who moves to the west is forced to assimilate. And what’s more, if any of the people of the pre-existing cultures protest that their culture is being replaced, they’re called “Racist”. If no one is forced to assimilate, you don’t have a melting pot, instead you have many cultures fighting each other.

  67. Totally unrelated, but you MUST check this out Rollo!!!! Check out this example of the first man to use technology to make game obsolete!!!!!!!!!!!

    A twitter account I happened to stumble upon:


    This guy’s methods are simple. Go all around twitter looking for the hottest girls, making sure they’re attention whores and thus most likely promiscuous from their account activity. Tell them to send you nudes or GTFO. Tell them to send you nudes holding up your name in the picture. Tell them to send you money. I’d estimate 1 out of 100 actually do. Then you hope some of them live nearby. Then you just tell them to keep sending you nudes with your name in the picture. Then you tell them to keep sending you money. Then eventually you know they’re DTF if they’ve been sending all those goodies so far. And voila. Insta-harem. Last I checked, this guy was at 88, all of them with smokin’ bodies in my opinion.

    THis guy is the next step. This is what the future has in store. Roosh is already obsolete. Game? TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE GAME OBSOLETE!!!! I’ll bet this guy doesn’t waste any time even talking to them in person.

  68. BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men. The problem as Heartiste explains is that the relationship is best exited as your ball sack runs dry. Which is generally for most guys at nine months. Your mileage may vary. (…..depends on your red pill ball-sack qualitative dimensions….. Blue pill and all bets are off). A guy has to know his limitations.

    Four years is generally too long, but I thank my lucky stars that it spurred Rollo to new heights over his next twenty years. Rollo could have never been so great without having had that fucked up BPD relationship.

    I spent 7-9 months with a BPD chick when I was say 24 years old and it was grand before she dumped me. The next chick actually turned schizophrenic (a schizophrenic “break” as I was dating her) and made the BPD a wistful former relationship. And my high maintenance wife of 25 years can never give me the angst of the former two.

    Anti-fragilistic-ally what doesn’t make you go off the rails, makes you more Stoic. As long as you know what you are doing.

  69. Heheh, Rugby

    Dualistic Strategies? Where have we heard that tune before?

    “The study’s co-author, Prof Robert Foley, is marginally more optimistic about the human condition: “I’ve no doubt it is in our biology to be aggressive and lethal, just as it is to be deeply caring and loving. A lot of what we understand about human evolutionary biology suggests these are two sides of the same coin.””

    Two sides of the same coin? Try two different coins.

    And where have we heard that you can’t tell shit from a few ancient skulls before? That Evo-psych and behavioral psychology can be over-ridden by Neomasculinity?



  70. @Camaro

    Your story is fucking awful to hear about. Holy shit you’ve gotten yourself into a bad situation. You obviously know you need to make a break….but it ain’t easy is it? Hardest part is probably the thought of losing the hot sex.

    The others, especially Rollo and Scribbler were exactly right. Go back and read again what they wrote.

    Most likely all the guys that wrote comments to you have some experience with what you’re going through. I’ve known too closely myself as well as a good friend how women like your wife will escalate and never stop. You know why it will never stop? Because she can’t stop doing what she is doing. It’s compulsive and she cannot control herself. She may trick you for a while but her acting job will only last so long.

    Dude, you are in a dangerous situation.

    Stop. Go back and Read that sentence again.

    Imagine for a minute if you had a son or daughter…would you want them exposed to all that? To see you punched, slapped, kicked or worse? If you answer no then think about yourself. Why do you not care enough about your own well being that you don’t pack your bag today and leave?

    I am not trying to make you feel any worse than you already do. Seriously, protect yourself. STOP fucking her today. No more sex, just be done with it. You can do it, you need to want to get out enough to quit having sex. Is she worth it? One more lay? If she is on the pill do you trust her? Do you trust her enough that she won’t hit you again? Or next time have her ex or others ambush you?

    Yeah, she sounds all hot as hell and loves fucking. Buddy of mine dated a girl a lot like your wife. She is on husband # 4 right now. We worked with her for a a few years and she was a hottie, dressed hot and acted the sexy slut. He dated her and became fixated on what she did to him sexually. Then she abused the fuck out of him emotionally. Soon after that she started openly fucking other guys while they were still dating. Luckily he disengaged before the physical abuse started. With all her exes the police were involved. After my friend broke up she called him one day and asked him to go pickup some furniture for her from one of her exes. Was not a smart thing for him to help her. Apparently she needed help because her arm was in a cast from an altercation with her ex. She still sucks my friend back into her orbit with twisted psycho sexual teasing. She can’t stop. She is mentally ill. You cannot fix her. Her wires got crossed at a young age most likely.

    My ex got all crazy psycho on me once, only reason I did not return the favor with my hand was because she was pregnant. Luckily it never happened again. Doesn’t appear you will be so lucky. She has created a consistent pattern for you to see, correct? You wrote about what’s he is doing and you know she will NEVER STOP. It’s likely there is more going on with her ex than you are aware of, or that you want to admit.

    If your job is secure and you can take a day off use the time to quietly find an attorney. Don’t let her think you’ve taken a day off. As others said, gently disengage. Your busy, gotta work late. Shit came up, friend needs help, whatever solid excuses you have use them. Only one year into marriage you probably will have zero alimony and no child support given the situation. This stuff is easy for you though. What’s hard is the thought of no more sex. It’s ok to feel that way and to have those thoughts. When you’ve gone through enough hurt and are ready you will stop you will. How much more shit do you want to take? How much more of her histrionic outbursts from hell are you supposed to tolerate? Would be better if you could put yourself first and just leave. YOUR future and well being is more important than your ego investment in having married a hot 8.5. You may not think that not now, but one day you will.

    The men on this site are solid. You’ve come to the right place for support amongst men. But you also need at least one close male friend you trust who is nearby. You will need him to be around at times for a witness, stash belongings or whatever. If you decide to disengage quickly it will be easier for you to leave the home. Think about that just for a moment. You can plan a time to pack a bag and your most essential stuff when she and the kids are not around. Then you simply leave. Imagine all the drama if you ask her to leave? Insanity will ensue, her ex will show up to help her. Her kids will be a wreck crying and she will find any opportunity to escalate violence towards you.

    File for divorce sooner than later. Honestly ask yourself if you can make it work. Think she will ever change? I think you know the answer….

    Never underestimate her ability to inflict physical harm onto you. Expect a fight. Expect her to play dirty. Expect her to pull her ex back into situations when you least expect it. Watch your back. Make a copy of any important keys and give them to a friend or family member. After you have separated never return to the home without a witness, or the police.

    If what Rollo wrote hasn’t sunk in or your need a second opinion check this out: shrink4men.com

    Shrink for men is a very different site than the Rational Male, but given your situation you may need additional reinforcement.

  71. Knowledge abut women is one of the best things man can have. He was conditioned as a slave by his very parents, buddies, society, etc. Time to wake up!

    He can be a master now! Benevolent or malevolent one, it is up to him to decide, but the master nonethelessr. Women are GREAT servants..and terrible masters. Very first thing to master – not take them too seriously. All guys who control women – be it a pimp, womanizer, or others heve one trait in common – do not take women so seriously. They know that women are here for their pleasure and nothing else!

    Blue pill and red pill has its own rules…

    Blue pill? Sacrifice for her, perform for her, make her happy, marry and fuck ONE!!?? aging woman for the rest of your life, TAKE her seriously, etc.

    Red pill/Freedom?

    Fuck her and provide her with your companion as long as she behaves, enjoy her energy, companion, feminine charm as long as she is giving them to you. Enjoy your hobbies, your life, your buddies, your women.

    As we see RP serves our interests much better. So we have to face the question – WHY we still cling to this blue pill? Do we need to be judged and admired by women? Are we someting more than sexual robots pandering to every whim and wish of women? Do we need to sacrify our well being and life for women, children, society….to be happy?

    I am afraid, that the answer is overwhelming YES! Majority of guys are not able to live without women telling them what to do. They need to have this “greater cause” in their lives, they need to sacrify themselves for something of “value”, they are not able to live JUST for their own interests.

    Freedom is just for a few.

    Women will still have advantage over majority of guys – solipsistic nature of women does not need any greater cause, they can live JUST for their emotions and interest. Women live in “What is good for me” reality while men live in this “what is good for society, my woman, my children” reality. When we compare those two realities..it is crystal clear who cares less and who has power over who.

    Womanizers are like women in this aspect. They too live in “what is good for me” reality.

    But our typical man? He needs to be directed and ruled by women just to be….happy!!

    And this is the reason why we need this bastardized combination of blue pill and red pill called “positive masculinity”.


    Enjoy women, play with them, enjoy their energy, and have your own life and priorities. Enjoy them under your terms. Do not trust them with your life and/or property cos they can not be trusted. Do not perform for them, it is useless. They are not able to judge manly performance plus they do not tingle from it.

    Perform for yourself so that you respect and like that guy in you and – it is better to run your own business and have money than to be a worker – slave for others. In short – it is more advantageous for you to be rich and respected as to be poor. But – when it comes to women – learn how to manipulate their emotions so that they slave for you..but be a benevolent master, do not need unnecessary problems.

    Red pill:

    Spin plates – enjoy realtive freedom for a time (red pill)…AND then marry, and perform for the wife so that SHE is satisfied and gives you sex once in a month. You must perform, be confident and apply dread game, plus milion things from the list, otherwise you can loose your very wife and you loose the privilege to fuck SINGLE aging woman for the rest of your life (Blue pill to the fucking core!)

    I am afraid that this is as good as it gets for majority of men.

    Truly red pill man is a free man. Do not see anyone here except maybe ya really.

    Afraid that this is ugly truth about men.

  72. sorry, not Red pill but “Positive masculinity”

    Positive masculinity:

    Spin plates – enjoy realtive freedom for a time (red pill)…AND then marry, and perform for the wife so that SHE is satisfied and gives you sex once in a month. You must perform, be confident and apply dread game, plus milion things from the list, otherwise you can loose your very wife and you loose the privilege to fuck SINGLE aging woman for the rest of your life (Blue pill to the fucking core!)

  73. @Camaro

    Take this from a healthcare professional too. BPD (borderline personality disorder) which is what it sounds like you are dealing with, will take you down a path of self hate if you happen to allow her frame to win over, and it looks like you are well down that path. You are to expect more physical and psychological abuse from her as her primary objective is your attention. No matter how much you give, no matter how good you are, she will never be happy. And when you do try to get rid of her expect the attention seeking suicide attempts.

    I found myself in relationships like that, although I never allowed their frame to win over. So it was always false suicide attempts, fake pregnancies to try and keep me around and when they realised that didn’t work they would behave themselves. There are 2 questions I want to ask from you: Would you trust a person like that always around you? Would you be able to live a life, never being able to let your guard down for one moment? – because that’s what they need and they would love you for it. BUT IT’S TOO MUCH EFFORT. I am all about ROI like Rollo so elegantly put it when we did our talk.

    Watch this video from That Red Pill moment series on my channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE_SuHgDUM8

    If I am going to advise you on anything is listen to the stories – there are 8 in total on my channel. Some you would relate to, others you won’t. But the key is to understand that we only let ourselves be captured in this reality of abuse because we don’t value ourselves as much as we should.

    Think of what you want and what you need in your life.

  74. @YaReally: I’m having a go at some of the basic material you recommended here

    My goal is to apply Game to my wife (this is a bit tricky for a beginner as I think it takes some level of mastery to see the bigger picture and translate the fundamentals of “Night game” to an LTR).

    I am watching the Liam Mcrae vid right now and I have a specific question. When he is demonstrating eye contact he has an assistant which blinks, and often takes a few seconds with the eyelids down when blinking. What does this mean?

    It is confusing for me because it looks sexy, but strictly speaking it is an eye shielding behavior, which I think are usually IODs (think covering your eyes with your hand, or even outright turning your back on someone / something as archetype eye shielding behaviors).

  75. @Niko – re: Your vid. A couple of points:

    What you struggle to describe about how feminism is inculcated in schools and society is much better and more completely described via Rollo’s concept of the “Feminine Inmperative”.

    Your comment on male ingroup preferences flies in the face of the known science. In fact men display very little ingroup preference, especially when compared to that of women. Some googling will reveal this. Particularly funny was the NPR treatment of the grounbreaking study which revealed it – female ingroup preferences were okay as they were a reaction to oppression. Neglected were the horrific truths that women exercise ingroup preferences in hiring, promotion and buying whereas men do not. This is an important fact which any man working with or doing business with women should recognize.

    As for male suffering, while I of course agree that boys, men, fathers and masculinity itself is shamed and denigrated in the popular culture, that is only part of the story. Another aspect of the problem of “equaliism” is its implication of fairness and I think many men internalize a sense that struggling in the rough and tumble competition of life is somehow unfair when in fact all species compete and struggle for resources and reproduction etc. Competiton and struggle and barriers are the nature of life, not an exception. Men need to realize that and get that as part of their Red Pill awakening. As I advise do another TRMer recently, why not you! Why shouldn’t your life suck? Why do you think you shouldn’t face “unfair” barriers and opposition?

    Most humans live lives of deprivation and oppression. The expectation that we deserve something better is a big part of the problem for today’s young men in particular who have been raised by women who shriek about fairness nonstop. Theses are the same women who have string ingroup preferences In hiring etc.

  76. “Quite frankly, I find this offensive.”

    Well, I keep forgetting Pareto Principle.

    Good for 20% of the guys that know to get out before their ball sack runs dry (gen. 9 to 12 months). You know, the hot sex and Antifragility of it all.

    Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind? It sucks. But the next day in sunny peacefully calm weather, the round of golf is pretty sweet by comparison. That happened to me once and on the sunny calm day, I shot the lowest score of my life.

  77. “Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind?”

    Keep digging.

  78. I rest my case on the “Like” button. You see how, in a masculine pissing match (Like Andy’s mirroring effect-heh, Law #44) it would serve no purpose? A like button without a dislike button would feminize the situation instead of letting the men play out their cards in discussion. I’ve seen it happen on forums before.

  79. @Andy

    I don’t disagree. I mean, I don’t feel offended; I don’t think SJF is not very susceptible to the to the sort of emotional lifewreck a BPD can pull on some men, so from his perspective it’s just ‘well whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.’

    A BPD woman is a very real and present danger for certain men. They are parasites who will cause a man to suck the life out of himself for her. She is a master manipulator of male emotions – using every mechanism in the male brain available to keep his focus and priority on her. Learning this skill has been the central guiding principle of her life from a very young age, an interest born of a profound desperation to prop up a crushed ego. It’s hard to compete with that.

    Of course some men emerge from the other side of the experience hardened and wizened by it. But many don’t emerge at all. And I’m not convinced that those who do couldn’t have learned the same toughness in a less laborious and painful way. There’s only so much you can focus on self-development all those years when you can hardly sleep, can hardly keep a coherent thought in your brain before it’s supplanted by rationalization and gaslighting.

    I had a relationship with a BPD girl once, if you call her getting me drunk and jumping me, then spending the next 6 months harassing me with violent, suicidal, sexual, denigrating, and worshipful texts messages a ‘relationship.’ To be fair, I fished her out of the ER once and out of a dangerous dive bar another time after she ran away from home, then I started to realize that this shit was constant and it was no-one’s fault but her own.

    Lol, she was so pissed when I drove her back home after the bar thing. Kept telling me she didn’t want to ‘go back there’ but gave no solid reasons why. The way she was used to things going, I now realize, is for the guy to drive her to his place and bang her, then just not leave, and that’s how she moves in. Ta-da! Branch swing accomplished instantaneously.

    After that I got in a much better relationship with a girl who only leaned cluster B. You may recognize a pattern here. People with the sorts of ego issues cluster B’s have are masterclass at finding men who are vulnerable to their manipulation – men who have weak frame and (more mild) self-esteem issues of their own, usually. That one I did learn a lot from, though again I feel 2 years would have been better served in a couple of more healthy relationships if I needed experience. And now she’s still a co-worker (Working with Ex who has Cluster B Disorder Review: 1/10 would not recommend) and I’m just starting to comprehend how much she’s still manipulating me, and it’s becoming clearer why I haven’t been able to just ignore her as I’ve been advised to do and desperately would like to.

    She know exactly how to still get my attention, and just when I learn one strategy she switches to another. She’s become an incredibly reliable source of pain; I can expect about 1-2 barbs delivered somehow or another per hour of contact. Which fortunately is about all I have per day these days.

    Rollo’s quote from the ‘borderline’ article actually made me take attention with his comments about how a relationship will move to eventual cuckolding. It’s not actually all that different from what happened here; I mean, she had the grace to break up with me externally but she still keeps tenacious hooks in me even as she fucks another guy, and she hides but I can see the bitter jealousy she has when she sees me flirting with another girl, or suspects I have one on the side.

    I’m partially venting, partially writing this for anyone in a similar circumstance so they can see more clearly what’s happening to them. I’ve all the advice one can get about this sort of thing I think, so now it’s just one more go at taking it I guess. Like kfg said to Camaro above, it is very difficult. But I don’t need easy, I just need possible. And every time I try I get a little better at it.

    And for reference, I’m happier now than I’ve been in years – possibly ever. I have a sense of mastery over circumstance which is still nascent but growing. With work and tutelage I’m getting better with game, and even though it’s hard and at the end of many nights I’m just frustrated and done I’ve found the past month (haven’t been able to go out much due to circumstances) to be stifling and I can’t wait to hit it again. So this isn’t the cornerstone of my day-to-day life as it was not all that long ago. It gets better. At this point, it’s kinda like having say rheumatoid arthritis – doesn’t prevent my life from happening, most days are pretty good, some days it creates a fair bit of pain but ya just grin and bear it.

    Only this will get better instead of worse. Alright, Im’a get out there and ignore this bitch! There’s a rallying cry lol.

  80. @IAS
    “It is confusing for me because it looks sexy, but strictly speaking it is an eye shielding behavior, which I think are usually IODs (think covering your eyes with your hand, or even outright turning your back on someone / something as archetype eye shielding behaviors).”

    It’s attraction/seduction. Google “slow blink attracted” for a bunch on it. If she was looking away from him or something then it could be an IOD, but if she’s still looking at him it’s some bambi eyes shit lol

    Pay attention to how proximity adds to the tension, watch the Richard Laruina vid I mention in that post after the Liam one, his version is more playful but the concept is the same and his explanation adds to Liam’s.

    “Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind?”

    I keep a BPD chick around just for the practice of learning to handle them. Some nice little <25yo at the bar who throws a little shit-test is child's play after having the BPD chick test my frame like crazy. I literally keep this chick around to keep my frame tight. So I get what you're saying.

    But 99.999999% of men are not equipped to handle a BPD chick. They will be sucked into the vortex nightmare from hell those chicks create. Even I have to take a bunch of precautions and keep distance etc to keep her from going full Gone Girl on me but I have a lot of experience and ultimately I'm attracted to a bit of crazy so I need to learn how to handle these kinds of girls 'cause I'll probably end up with one lol But this chick is the extreme end of it. Her entire LIFE, not just her, is a barrel of crazy.

    But like I say, I wouldn't recommend that shit to anyone. I have enough abundance that I can peace out on this one at any time with no fucks given and no looking back. Most guys aren't in that situation.

    The other guys here know what they're talking about. I'd just add that the only thing worse than being with a BPD chick like that would be paying a good chunk of your salary (alimony and child support) to and fighting over custody with a chick like that. She will run the next guy through the same BPD wringer she's running you through, except she won't marry him because then you'll get off the hook for alimony and you'll be funding the two of them while not being able to see your kids (which might be a good thing because they're going to inherit her BPD shit and she will fully teach them how to false accuse you of shit when they don't get their way because they're too small to hit you but not too small to hurt you).

    Get out now before you're locked in for alimony and child support/custody. No idea how old you are but it's VERY common for guys to start their lives "over" in their 40s and 50s now, you're not the creepy old loser to society now. And if you're in your 30s you definitely shouldn't be locked down to this shit. There's another girl that looks and fucks just like her down the street, minus the crazy.

    Like Louis CK says at 1:24, get the fuck out while it's easy 'cause it's only gonna get harder and fuck your life up longer:


    There's no scenario where you're with this girl and end up happy. She has no reason to change her behavior, no one in society will ever hold her accountable for it, not even you, because if you ever did society would take her side. There is NO LOGICAL REASON why she would ever get better and you would end up happy. You are actually at the HAPPIEST point in your relationship right now, because everything from here will be worse than right now and you'll think back and go "man, I miss those days, I should've gotten out while I could", just like you probably think back to when you two first met and the first signs of crazy came out and how much happier you were back then.

    Also watch the movie Gone Girl ASAP. That's your chick.

  81. @Scribblerg: I’m pretty sure most men also have strong ingroup preferences. Politics was rife with it before women were allowed in and you and Blaximus were just discussing how a bunch of men are racist in CH’s comment section.

    I’m very skeptical of any study that shows men have “very little” ingroup preferences, it runs against many of my own observations in many different contexts and it would take very solid proof to convince me of its absence. I’m inclined to believe women have even more ingroup preference though, but if that was your point it wasn’t clear to me.

    Also, it is apparently linked to oxytocin levels. I think I posted about this before:

  82. Video of Camaro’s wife and future daughter (when you take her iphone away etc) going viral:


    This girl will never change her ways because why would she? If she were a little dude he would’ve been knocked the fuck out the second he raised his fists. But this chick is going to face zero consequences. Even if she was charged society will paint her as the victim and she’ll just write it off as “that guy was a faggot or something” and continue being her sparkling shining self.

    @Camaro you wanna raise one of these for 18 years? ’cause your wife is demonstrating to you that your daughter is going to be just like her but worse ’cause she’ll be raised BY her.

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