A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Ang Aamer
5 years ago

Why I don’t hate women – because weak men allowed this to happen The DIVIDED LINE comment that Rollo responded to. Stated ‘This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.”’ Indeed they are awful they are human females that when left to their own devices have created a horror show of human mating within westernized cultures. And If you want to see the end game of this westernized empowered women society death just visit Japan and talk to a 30+ single woman. Weak men in the past have done this: -Weak men told them they can… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Roosh should call his stuff “Reactionary Red Pill” . . .” Pointing that out, or that he should just plain call it “traditionalism,” is why Roosh has accused the Manosphere of being the ones who turned on him. Oddly enough, the fact that it is reactionary is why Vox Day has supported him, and Roosh accepts that support. The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels. “Roosh also promotes “Kratom” on his sites . . .”… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . our future as a culture DEPENDS on them having babies.”

Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

Yes, yes, the babies must be there, but if they aren’t taught the traditions of a culture, the culture dies no matter how many babies there are.

stuffinbox
5 years ago

After she acts manly ,guilt tripping,shaming or emasculating it is very unatractive. who would want to engage with that?That’s when I need to step up game and change things but don’t care to generally this self corrects or is forgotten.Internalizing TRP and game will prevent or slow down the ocurance hopefully. A truly wealthy man is one that knows when he has enough.Money is only worth what you can get with it.Fuck the more you get the more you need.Greenspan said his plan would have worked if it wasn’t for unbridled greed maybe he should have considered that in his… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

For that matter, The Matrix stole it from Total Recall.

stuffinbox
5 years ago

Cheked out Roosh a few months back and can see why he needs a body guard no thanks.

The Question
5 years ago

@ Rollo Tomassi

“I can show you post on SoSuave from 2003 where we were using “Red Pill” as an idiom then. Roosh neither coined nor invented the term.”

Even if he did, I don’t really see how that would help someone’s case for having ownership of the Red Pill or being the arbiter of what the Red Pill is and isn’t, because philosophy is about truth, and no one has ownership of truth. Truth isn’t based on what a certain person says it is. It just is what it is.

LostInThePlantation
LostInThePlantation
5 years ago

@Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy I hear you re the role of culture and its impact on young men. And there are still masculine kids coming through the ranks, but nothing on par with the 1930s for example. Declining testosterone levels are also at odds with the surplus of Alphas that should be walking around after a couple of decades of almost unrestrained hypergamy. Where I live I can see hypergamy in motion for myself – the number of single moms knocked up after short affairs with jerks is staggering. There are definitely a small percentage of men getting… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

YaReally et al – I have a couple of other points to make but I just saw that Julien video you linked yesterday (about the ugly night club owner in Vegas who uses social proof and body guards to literally take the hottest girl to his table and then his office to bang them). I just wanted to add that you don’t have to be a nightclub owner or anything. A buddy of mine in a decent sized city (but no Vegas) used to be a manager of a regular nightclub – not the owner or anything. He used to… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

And then I go to Return of Kings and I see his flying monkey brigade slobbering over a story of a drunk 21 year old girl who ran out of a party in shorts and a tank top, angry and out of control, in -6 degree weather and due to being so drunk apparently fell down or passed out, and then died of exposure. The feral peasants there are tearing her to shreds claiming they are glad she died and calling her a cunt. Because she was troubled. She somehow represents all women and their issues. Except that they didn’t… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels. An ever bigger problem is that he’s trying to recruit useful idiots for his “movement” among one particular demographic: single, mostly white, middle-class betas. Unfortunately for him, the competition there is absolutely fierce. Other movements who want to recruit useful idiots, i.e. expendable foot soldiers in some new culture war, exactly from the same demographic, include: – feminists and SJWs – MRAs – tradcons – churchians – white… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Ya & Culum – Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid, but that is to miss the point, yes? A couple of thoughts, tell me what you think, please. – Younger women expect more social status/value from an older man so if you go all court jester, it backfires. Already happened to me, and went against my instincts. – This is why the mentor role works so well. It assumes a frame of high value as young woman won’t submit to… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Hollen – Look up the word “implication” and have a nice day. Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out. You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall. I know that you think that’s just peachy, but in the real world such politics and ideology makes you a cretin.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Scribblerg, some interesting points there. First, I should say I’m 36 so my perspective on this is from dealing with 18-19 year olds. That said, I see your point. I don’t like to think of it in terms of what a young girl “expects” because that is falling into HER frame. But yes, a girl who likes a 40-55 year old doesn’t like him because she likes 6 packs (she gets much better ones from 22 year old guys) but because she likes his confidence and frame and experience. I don’t want to get metaphysical on this distinction – we… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Ang & KFG – I agree that in part it’s the fault of men that women have run amok. But I also think this is where people overplay the role of the FI in a sense. The radical egalitarianism and collectivism and materialism (in Hegelian/Marxist sense of the word) of 19th century political and moral philosophy, which destroyed classical liberalism, created such a fertile ground for the FI to run amok and for cultural nihilism that I don’t think seeing culture without these factors is a complete analysis. Some say the FI gave rise to these developments – I’m not… Read more »

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

comment image

Gif from a huffpo piece on the reaction of married people given the chance to try tinder. If the FI approves marriage, it’s safe.

Jeremy
5 years ago

See, it looks to me like her mouth is saying “Come here and fuck my pussy.” But maybe I’ve been watching too many bad lip syncing videos.

imnobody00
5 years ago

Is a false choice. Blue Pill idealism (making women our reason to live) or nihilism? This implies that the only idealism possible is having a Blue Pill marriage. As Red Pill guys, we know the story. When a man discovers that he cannot have a Disneyesque marriage (because of the FI), he loses the reason to live, the will to live. He feels void and despairs. Been there, done that. But historically this is an anomaly. Men didn’t put their reason to live in a woman. They made God, nation, being a patriarch or having a mission the goal of… Read more »

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
5 years ago

I respectfully would add step 3: learning that Blue Pill existence is anything but ideal. It is, in fact, a state of wretched slavery in which a man sacrifices his deepest biological desires, his dreams, his independence, his friends, and his lust for adventure in order to satisfy his woman’s deepest biological desires. It sets him on the treadmill of endless, mindless, purposeless work, stress, and unfulfilled longings. The FI blue pill conditioning is so sinister and runs so deeply that blue pill betas actually come to believe the fraud that the woman in a LTR is the one who… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@scribblerg “Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid” Only if you stop listening after the Dre story and miss the part where he experiments with the frame itself 😉 His point is that it’s the FRAME that matters. The owner of the club has the right frame because he knows he’s got value there, whereas you might walk into the same exact club but the bouncer was a dick to you and you’re there without a friend and you’re way older… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@scribblerg @culum More tips on creating the kind of high value that a nightclub owner would have so that you become the “guy to know” in the room even though you’re just some random dude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkKURdjtIQ Julien’s SHIFT infield has excellent footage of him executing this merge sets stuff. In that video he’s describing this documentary thing so you can see the infield he’s talking about (at 6:10, the set starts at exactly 6:16 when the white shirt guy (the future RSD instructor Max in his chode days as a student lol) is shaking the orange hoodie girl’s hand, compare… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

(also it’s important to remember that Mystery doesn’t drink, Julien doesn’t drink, Tyler doesn’t drink, Max doesn’t drink, Todd doesn’t drink, like, the only money you have to spend to do what these guys are doing with merging sets and everything is cover to get into the venue if you live near them and don’t have to pay for travel costs…and if you have a venue with no cover, you can just GO OUT and have hot girls UP ON YOU like this, for FREE, just by understanding the strategy and psychology that PUA teaches…you can do this THIS WEEKEND… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Ya – More to come. I’m inspired so i’m heading out to my fave cafe to finish up the day working there, and to work the young student hotties and staff – one of whom I’ve worked up into a lather but haven’t been able to isolate. So much of what you said resonates and makes sense. Fucking it up like I’ve been doing is necessary to “get it” though. While I’m not looking to “challenge” myself the way you are, I do find cold approaching is the best way to reveal my fucked up internals, and those internals sabotage… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Somehow this came to my inbox and I had to share it. This is what women spend money on, especially up here in crunchy, progressive, “strong, independent woman” country in Southern NH (same politics as Vermont). Look at the title “Lover Yourself Women’s Event” – the speakers are “angelic hearler & medium”, “spirit medium” and “compassionate clairvoyant”. You don’t see men doing this shit.. I notice this crap is also almost the exclusive preserve of post wall women, not young women. It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot –… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I just reflected on something I did in the past five years and wanted to share it in a comment. YaReally and Scribbler talked about mentoring young women game. There is another side of mentorship that is very important to young men and that is for a man to get a male mentor to become more masterful at something. To get more masterful at game to meet and attract women. To be more masterful at LTR’s from a male mentor. I had a great experience in me obtaining two mentors back then, 4-5 years ago. One was in deer hunting… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

scribblerg, I’m sure that women attending the event will have more than one emotional pop, maybe a spike or two, perhaps from a Tarot or Rune reading, perhaps from a make-up session followed by a glamour photo. If nothing else, the pub is open in the afternoon. So they’ll get to have a little emotional roller coaster ride, and maybe bring a trinket home as a souvenir. In other words, women will be women, rather than be men. It’s a feature. Maybe you should go, just in a mode of self-amusement. “Oh, Tarot and Rune reading? What nonsense. Everyone knows… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

That’s a great post about mentoring SJF. Good summary. I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

(Also the above shows why most organized mentorship programs like you sometimes see in large companies etc don’t work)

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg
Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

How do you know this to be true?

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Culum

I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

I actually don’t have the patience for the videos (nor the need for single guy game) and somehow I came across that in a PDF notes file attached to “Making a SHIFT”. I recognized in reading it, in retrospect, what I had done to have these mentors/great guy-friends. And you can see the obvious parallels to pick up artistry.

Note: PUA game is fungible for all relationships and all pursuits in life as well as for my LTR married man game. And it is invaluable.

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

Love Yourself

This is Justin Bieber’s latest single (currently 3rd on the Billboard charts):

Cause if you like the way you look that much
Ohhhh baby you should go and love yourself

which means go fuck off

His #1 single, Sorry, taps in emotionally, and his go fuck off song hits with “bad” emotions

Sign up to the Go Fuck Yourself Women’s Event, space is limited

newlyaloof
5 years ago

, epic mentoring comment. I’ve done similar, and the results are exactly what you state – knowledge, money, friendships, memories. One trait that makes this easy for me is I’ve naturally been empathetic and curious about other people and generally find a way to like almost all people. That goes a long way.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Anon – That event will be attended by cossetted, post-wall women who I can fuck pretty much at will if I’d like. The chances of <25yo hotties being there is exactly Zero, lol. I'd actually read Rollo's chick crack post a while back, and that's kind of why I posted it. The spiritual angle is a good one, when I was a buddhist chicks would get all moist over it. Anything magical gives them a spike, gotta get their fantasy hamster going. Just pussied out on making a cold approach on a 22 yr old HB8. Very public setting and… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@redlight

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@AR: By studying the history of traditions. Having lived in what we call “traditional” cultures. By noting that I am, culturally, firmly rooted in 20th century New England, not the Rhine delta of the 3rd century where my father’s family came from. By knowing second generation Chinese girls who speak fluent Valley Girl, but virtually no Chinese. By knowing army brats who are never able to fully assimilate into the country of which they are actually a citizen. By knowing that even non-human animals can be taught culture. By knowing the culture I was born into and comparing it to… Read more »

camarowoes@gmail.com
camarowoes@gmail.com
5 years ago

It feels hopeless and i am definitely cynical. I’m in the process of unplugging and i find myself married a year into a relationship with a hb 8.5 women who has two kids before me, she’s still “attached” to her ex, she’s recently physically abusive and what brought me here was searching google looking for advice from other men who were in my situation. I put up with so much bs from her thinking she was the prize, she even talked me into meeting her ex which led to him hitting me in the face and me giving him 23… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ScribblerG “It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot – your focus, anything but women as crucial for a man. Perhaps this a compensation women are making who have rejected traditional religion and men? They crave something, anything so badly – they’ll fall for this crap. Just amazing. It’s also wrapped around narcissism, sigh…” It is one thing to make yourself better as a man. And it is an entirely different thing, then, to relate to the feminine in a relationship. Women are like that and we have to go… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

” “Never mention which drugs”? Why does that matter? Again, if a 35-yr-old, jobless white beta exposed himself to similar types of dangers – I’m pretty sure Senegalese men are more likely to be infected with venereal diseases, and more likely to kill or beat their white girlfriends, than white men – and got killed as a result, nobody would sympathize with him anywhere.”

Lol….

http://www.johnkanesmith.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/john-kane-smith-lettering-fuck-outta-here-560×372.jpg

Motherfuckers just can’t help themselves. It’s a never ending cycle of amazement.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg, do you know of any sons who act like their fathers or grandfathers? Know of any daughters who act like their mothers, aunts, grandmothers?

In your opinion, is any percentage of a human’s behavior inherited?

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

@yareally

Bo said he was sorry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7sdvxEuQkH8

@hopelesshypergamy

At this point have you read all of Rollo’s posts, and if so, what’s your fav?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Ya says- ” But if you were just some fucking jobless bum and still viewed yourself as entitled to bang the hottest girls and that mentality spread, it would be chaos for society. We have an unwritten societal rule: you have to earn things and sacrifice yourself for other people’s interests and waste your entire life chasing shit you don’t need and if you manage to do it, THEN you’re ALLOWED to feel like you have value. Until then, you are a fucking WORM. DON’T approach that girl, you aren’t GOOD ENOUGH. You’re a piece of shit. But if you… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@camarowoes@gmail.com

that’s a tough situ to be in, but at least you are taking action…your options are stay married or get divorced…if you are going to stay married…you will have to alpha up…

if you are going to get divorced, do it asap…the longer it goes, the harder it is to untangle your situ…and from what you’ve said (and your attitude), this seems the best course of action for you…

also, be aware that it’s possible/likely that she’ll be looking to have an ‘oops’ pregnancy…

good luck!

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

FR: 25 yo hb7, nice body. She sits down not to far from me with a huge sigh and of course, I approach based on the sigh asking, “Wow, what is that all about?” I never have trouble opening when it’s even partially easy to do so. Get her talking, laughing, sharing about her life. Build some value with my biz and how I help people. Get her to open up about how stressed she gets sometimes. Going well but I detect some resistance as I escalate – all very subtle. Then she mentions the BF. She complains he’s too… Read more »

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@camarowoes: you may want to read up on Married Red Pill reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill
If you already know for sure you want out, lawyer up and like said above, be in control of the birth control (one of Rollo’s rules).

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@Kfg: I saved this comment of yours because I wanted to ask about it.

http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/14/women-improving-men/#comment-135882

Regarding the 5% for diversity, where did you get this from? Link to a study would be great if you have it, or some hints for me to google search it.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Camaro – Dude, welcome. Married guys here will have better insights but some thing jumps out at me. You are done, you know you are done. Detach, stay cool, make a plan and move on – on your own terms. Learn from this. Also, record everything – are you in a one party or two party recording state? Be alone with her as little as possible. Don’t be alone with her kids or ex. Work late, do things with friends, take up a new hobby. Don’t play Daddy to her kids anymore (if she turns on you a child abuse… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I watched the Julian video posted by YaReally above: “You’re Not Your FUCKING Khakis: How To Destroy Your Comfort Zone (Fuck Situational Confidence)” That is the TL;DR version of some things expounded on in two very important masculine self improvement books. It is indeed the essence of the keys to the book “Antifragile” and how to overcome an addiction in “The Biology of Desire” (the addiction here being one’s one old blue pill self), and how to SHIFT into a new PUA self. Some readers here may benefit from the very long DO READ books that I reference and you… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

@Camaro,

Cosign with scribbler’s comment. Your wife either has an IQ of 30, or she’s a psychopath. Women who know men intimately know how to push their buttons and know what will provoke them to physical action. The fact that she encouraged you to meet up with her ex, when she knows the temperament of both of you, tells me that she was probably screwing with both of you and either wanted to see a physical confrontation between you two, or expected it might happen and did not care.

Protect yourself now.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@AR: As to your first question, you have asked the wrong one. The correct question is do I know any identical twins separated at young age, preferably at birth, who act like each other and like their birth parents. And the answer is that I do not know any, but I know that such comparisons have been done and that there is a better than chance correspondence, but not a determining one. The tendency is there, but it does not rule. With children who grew up with their parents the correct question is are there any who do not act… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall. I’m not a Christian. Organized Christianity in all of its forms has become a vehicle for gynocentrism worldwide, and for that reason I reject it. Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out. Maybe in another universe I’d not be okay with it. But in the current reality, I understand that such forms of expression become inevitable when the mainstream media suppresses all manifestations of sex… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

“because girls don’t actually care if you OWN the nightclub, they care that you have the same subcomms as the guy who DOES, because that implies you have high-value.” the guy who “owns” the club doesn’t even own it. odds are he borrowed money from a bank to get the lease and build it out. he borrowed money from the bank to meet early payroll and the liquor is delievered with 30 day terms. the guy who gave him the lease borrowed money from the bank to buy the land and put up the building and the guy who delivered… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

” …race realism ”

Okay, tell me about myself using all of your brilliant observations.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Camaro: When I first went to a divorce lawyer she told me, “Normally I would advise clients to stay in the house for legal reasons, but in your case we need to get you out of the house now and worry about the legalities afterwards.” The second biggest mistake I made in my life was waiting two years to take her advice. But at least she was primed and waiting to deal with my situation when I finally did. Get legal council now and get prepared while your wife is playing good girl, so that you can jump with 60… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” “ownership” is fake.”

Molon labe.

Camarowoes@gmail.com
Camarowoes@gmail.com
5 years ago

The first time she struck me I just sat there dazed like wtf just happened. We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again. Well it happened again about a month later, then again about two weeks after that. On the last occurrence I called the police and while she was laughing about the whole thing like It was a joke they showed up, she admitted to striking me,and she was hauled off to jail. The first person she called in jail was her ex, he didn’t answer so she had her best friend bail her… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

And an off-topic observation concerning the dominance of the female imperative. If hypergamy is winning, and women are out there riding the alpha cock carousel and generously rewarding the Alphas, bad boys, douchebags and jerks with pussy time – why is the first generation of males birthed by these women the biggest bunch of pussies in human history? You can blame the feminized culture to some extent, and the comfort and ease provided by the West, but even physiologically there is a noticeable increase of scrawny, slack-shouldered, oval faced kids. That noticeable increase probably took place in your vicinity, and… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again.” We how about you promise us that you will never do that again….talk for three hours to the feminine. Everything you just said is easily explained in great detail by Rollo Tomassi’s 450 essays. Too bad you don’t have time to read them. Welcome here as a reader and a commenter. We feel for you. But as guys i n a group of men, will challenge you. You will want to offer your brutal honesty (as you have already done) if you are to grow. We respect… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Camaro: “Is that oneitis?”

Yes, and perhaps even worse. I’d like to tell you to snap out of it, but I know you can’t. What you can do is do what you should no matter how much you don’t want to. Yes, it will be very, very hard, but it is possible.

And believe it or not, you don’t need easy, you only need possible.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

At Hollen-scheisse-hound

You waded into a deep hole of shit there.

On the wrong blog, with the wrong topic, among the wrong group of men.

Stop. Put the shovel down. And stop digging.

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

I wasn’t the one who brought up RoK and CH on this thread, dear JSF.

On a different note, the Man Up Brigade is at it again:

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/gop-strategist-calls-trump-supporters

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Camarowoes

“After all the stuff that I’ve put myself through the loss of sleep anxiety getting sick feeling depressed is it because I’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that as a man I’m somehow supposed to just deal with it is that the reason why something inside of me continues to tell me that this is the way it’s supposed to be?”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumption_trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I didn’t say you did. I said you are digging in shit.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Camaro i dont’ have a lot of time to write up a proper response right now, but wanted to address this so you’re not hanging…and i’m sure the other men here will weigh in too… “The thing that scares me the most is the fact that I still want to be with her that there’s some part of me that wants to give her another chance. Is that oneitis? ” like kfg says, it sounds like it’s something much worse…asperational beta syndrome (ya, i just made that up…but i needed a term to describe this…)…oneitis is where you pretend that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@SJF Man, I don’t talk race stuff normally. I make it a mission not to. 90% of the time when confronted by some measure of fuckery, I keep it moving. Then there’s the 10% that I don’t. I used to go to Roosh’s and CH’s blogs because there was some good stuff there. I overlooked the racist crap for the most part ( especially with CH because he was a brilliant writer/idiot savant…lol ) but whenever I made the mistake of wandering into the comment section, good God. They talk more stupid shit than I thought was humanly possible by… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Camaro et al – Remember he said she’s an HB8.5. I know what it’s like to have a hot wife and to walk away from that isn’t easy. Especially when she’s begging you to stay, blowing you and fucking your brains out and putting on lingerie etc. My ex did the most amazing 180 once I put my foot down on her awful treatment of me – but she did not hit me. That is a red line for me, due to the abuse I suffered as a child. A few questions: – Is the hottest women you’ve ever fucked?… Read more »

Camarowoes@gmail.com
Camarowoes@gmail.com
5 years ago

I’ve read every link each one of you have shared with me. Thank you. I’ve had 31 partners in my 30 yrs on earth. My current wife really is the most attractive I’ve ever been with, she’s also educated and is about to enter med school to be a pa, though she keeps putting it off for different excuses. She’s crazy in bed and initiates sex constantly. I would rate my wife an honest 8.5-9. The next hottest girl ive been with was probably a 8 and she was very crazy, a liar and cheater, crazy outbursts and such, but… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

@Blaximus My argument is that the American broad who got clipped in Italy has exposed herself to increased danger by getting involved with an African migrant. She increased her chances of getting raped / killed / infected (both by venereal diseases and other types), because migrants from Africa and the Middle East are statistically more likely to commit such acts than the Italian men who lived around her. Simple as that. If you really dig diversity and know many Senegalese men, supposedly all of whom are in good health, that’s great. But none of that is a reason for me… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Camaro,

Since you are new here and have read all the links thrown your way, and based on what you just said, this link is indispensable:

http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/29/a-new-hope/

Unless you feel that real power is possible in this relationship (and even then that might be an illusion), you know what you need to do.

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

Camarowoes@gmail.com
Camarowoes@gmail.com
5 years ago

Yes she is the hottest I’ve ever got and yes the fear of never getting another as hot as her is a fear. I thought I was a lucky guy until I started having anxiety attacks due to months of hellish stress and lack of sleep. Now I’m just drained and she’s trying to make me feel guilty about giving up on our marriage. I gotta get the divorce papers tomorrow, I’ll schedule a free class to fill them out. I’m going to appear strong through this to her, but inside I’m a wreck. I’ve read the bpd link Rollo… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@Hoellenhundz2 I don’t get the impression that anything is taboo here. I engaged in some of the MGTOW talk because it was interesting conversation. I didn’t take anything as ” shitting ” on anyone, but there were/are strong disagreements, and that led to men hashing it out. Am I wrong? Was the discussion too harsh in some fashion? As for Race Realism… well, you can imagine that I have strong opinions there. I wouldn’t ever have the subject banned or otherwise negated, but from my viewpoint, I personally get tired of the subject popping up consistently in my every day… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

At hoellen-scheisse-hound, It is well understood that there are no taboo subjects here. But imagine you were at a Thanksgiving table (but….maybe you don’t know what that is like…… It is pretty powerful stuff….), or a dinner party anywhere, where there was a group sitting at the table that had their “family way” of thinking and behaving and being respectful of the group. And you proceeded to be a dick to all of them. You really want to continue the conversation that nobody else wants to have? Rollo is well spoken on diversity in his professional dealings during his career.… Read more »

corypheus
corypheus
5 years ago

Reminds me a bit of the confusion/despair of the original Existentialists.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Hollen – You argue like a 10 yr old girl. MGTOWs are welcome here. If they start yapping about how we are all pussy beggars and controlled by women, I tell them to go fuck themselves. Race realism is horseshit and basically a whitewashing of ignorance, hate and bigotry which has no place in a civil setting. Period. Dot. End of sentence. Why? Three reasons primarily: 1. Any serious study of race and how humans vary by race shows there is more variation within races than between races. On every count – IQ included. This alone makes the idea that… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

Fair enough. This is my last comment as well on this topic. I’m no redneck, but I’m a race realist, and will always be one.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

@Blax read this. https://newrepublic.com/article/122117/why-are-white-racists-always-called-white-trash

Ps,
Ignorant Roosh thinks his last name is : Hatfields, and his Mother’s name is : Fatima Mccoy.

Jeremy
5 years ago

My favorite anti-racism thought is that, in reality, I have more perspective in common with black men, than I do with white women. A black man has the same burden of performance I do, the same biological needs I do. No woman knows these things.

In reality, I should feel far more kinship talking with men of any race, than with women of any kind.

Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Jeremy-

Cosign 100%

stuffinbox
5 years ago

If we could just figure out away for a woman to wake up in the morning and scratch her balls i think this would solve a lot of problems.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Current western society needs conflict within the masses to keep most people distracted from what the political class is doing.” Pareto Principle. 80% of people are the masses. Only 20% of people can deal with diversity. For the top 20% it is No Big Deal to have diversity and inclusion as is the nature of The United States of America and the melting pot as described by Scribbler above. The bottom 80% of dumb-shits ruin the narrative. I frankly grew up in a non-diverse community forever and when I hit the diverse population in a certain segment of my life… Read more »

bob bitchin
bob bitchin
5 years ago

@camaro: best of luck. I met a bpd/npd chick last spring. I quickly determined she was nuts. NEXT. This from a guy who had no decent role models.except.a grandfather 4k km away! Needless to say its been a long hard slog for me. I’ve had to figure out most of the important things in life by myself. No help. My brother topped himself. My other brother, a cousin, is trapped in the blue pill. I hardly see him. What I’ve consistently seen in myself is a greater and greater ability to roll with the punches, maintain frame and make solid… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“If we could just figure out away for a woman to wake up in the morning and scratch her balls i think this would solve a lot of problems.” Nein. The masculine is what it is the is the feminine is what it is. Embrace Polarity and seek equilibrium, not equalism, and the complementary nature will function just fine. You do not want women to be logical and equal to men. There are not problems that are not understandable in red pill awareness, only solutions. Solutions with Game. Lower your hurdles by your mindset. Stoicism solves the high hurdle frustration.… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

The problem with “diversity” is that what is shoved down people’s throats, the notion that “diversity” is some form of strength.. well, that’s a lie. There is no historical record of a culturally diverse body of people surviving together long-term. Culture, shared values, these are what binds people together and creates trust between strangers. You can’t have a strong society without trust between strangers. Racial diversity is not the problem, should never be the problem. The problem is that every person who will preach about diversity to you will also try to convince you that any standardized or primary “culture”… Read more »

Weebler
Weebler
5 years ago

Totally unrelated, but you MUST check this out Rollo!!!! Check out this example of the first man to use technology to make game obsolete!!!!!!!!!!! A twitter account I happened to stumble upon: https://twitter.com/DaddyCammyBo This guy’s methods are simple. Go all around twitter looking for the hottest girls, making sure they’re attention whores and thus most likely promiscuous from their account activity. Tell them to send you nudes or GTFO. Tell them to send you nudes holding up your name in the picture. Tell them to send you money. I’d estimate 1 out of 100 actually do. Then you hope some… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men. The problem as Heartiste explains is that the relationship is best exited as your ball sack runs dry. Which is generally for most guys at nine months. Your mileage may vary. (…..depends on your red pill ball-sack qualitative dimensions….. Blue pill and all bets are off). A guy has to know his limitations. Four years is generally too long, but I thank my lucky stars that it spurred Rollo to new heights over his next twenty years. Rollo could have never been so great without having had that fucked… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  SJF
SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Heheh, Rugby Dualistic Strategies? Where have we heard that tune before? “The study’s co-author, Prof Robert Foley, is marginally more optimistic about the human condition: “I’ve no doubt it is in our biology to be aggressive and lethal, just as it is to be deeply caring and loving. A lot of what we understand about human evolutionary biology suggests these are two sides of the same coin.”” Two sides of the same coin? Try two different coins. And where have we heard that you can’t tell shit from a few ancient skulls before? That Evo-psych and behavioral psychology can be… Read more »

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

@Camaro Your story is fucking awful to hear about. Holy shit you’ve gotten yourself into a bad situation. You obviously know you need to make a break….but it ain’t easy is it? Hardest part is probably the thought of losing the hot sex. The others, especially Rollo and Scribbler were exactly right. Go back and read again what they wrote. Most likely all the guys that wrote comments to you have some experience with what you’re going through. I’ve known too closely myself as well as a good friend how women like your wife will escalate and never stop. You… Read more »

gregg
gregg
5 years ago

Knowledge abut women is one of the best things man can have. He was conditioned as a slave by his very parents, buddies, society, etc. Time to wake up! He can be a master now! Benevolent or malevolent one, it is up to him to decide, but the master nonethelessr. Women are GREAT servants..and terrible masters. Very first thing to master – not take them too seriously. All guys who control women – be it a pimp, womanizer, or others heve one trait in common – do not take women so seriously. They know that women are here for their… Read more »

gregg
gregg
5 years ago

sorry, not Red pill but “Positive masculinity”

Positive masculinity:

Spin plates – enjoy realtive freedom for a time (red pill)…AND then marry, and perform for the wife so that SHE is satisfied and gives you sex once in a month. You must perform, be confident and apply dread game, plus milion things from the list, otherwise you can loose your very wife and you loose the privilege to fuck SINGLE aging woman for the rest of your life (Blue pill to the fucking core!)

Niko Choski (@nikochoski)

@Camaro Take this from a healthcare professional too. BPD (borderline personality disorder) which is what it sounds like you are dealing with, will take you down a path of self hate if you happen to allow her frame to win over, and it looks like you are well down that path. You are to expect more physical and psychological abuse from her as her primary objective is your attention. No matter how much you give, no matter how good you are, she will never be happy. And when you do try to get rid of her expect the attention seeking… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men. ”

Quite frankly, I find this offensive.

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@YaReally: I’m having a go at some of the basic material you recommended here http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/comment-page-8/#comment-135870 My goal is to apply Game to my wife (this is a bit tricky for a beginner as I think it takes some level of mastery to see the bigger picture and translate the fundamentals of “Night game” to an LTR). I am watching the Liam Mcrae vid right now and I have a specific question. When he is demonstrating eye contact he has an assistant which blinks, and often takes a few seconds with the eyelids down when blinking. What does this mean? It… Read more »

Scribblerg
Scribblerg
5 years ago

@Niko – re: Your vid. A couple of points: What you struggle to describe about how feminism is inculcated in schools and society is much better and more completely described via Rollo’s concept of the “Feminine Inmperative”. Your comment on male ingroup preferences flies in the face of the known science. In fact men display very little ingroup preference, especially when compared to that of women. Some googling will reveal this. Particularly funny was the NPR treatment of the grounbreaking study which revealed it – female ingroup preferences were okay as they were a reaction to oppression. Neglected were the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Quite frankly, I find this offensive.” Well, I keep forgetting Pareto Principle. Good for 20% of the guys that know to get out before their ball sack runs dry (gen. 9 to 12 months). You know, the hot sex and Antifragility of it all. Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind? It sucks. But the next day in sunny peacefully calm weather, the round of golf is pretty sweet by comparison. That happened to me once and on the sunny calm day, I shot… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“Sure it sucks when a man is with one. But did you ever play golf in a 3 club difference, rainy, cold headwind?”

Keep digging.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I rest my case on the “Like” button. You see how, in a masculine pissing match (Like Andy’s mirroring effect-heh, Law #44) it would serve no purpose? A like button without a dislike button would feminize the situation instead of letting the men play out their cards in discussion. I’ve seen it happen on forums before.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Andy I don’t disagree. I mean, I don’t feel offended; I don’t think SJF is not very susceptible to the to the sort of emotional lifewreck a BPD can pull on some men, so from his perspective it’s just ‘well whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.’ A BPD woman is a very real and present danger for certain men. They are parasites who will cause a man to suck the life out of himself for her. She is a master manipulator of male emotions – using every mechanism in the male brain available to keep his focus and priority… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@IAS “It is confusing for me because it looks sexy, but strictly speaking it is an eye shielding behavior, which I think are usually IODs (think covering your eyes with your hand, or even outright turning your back on someone / something as archetype eye shielding behaviors).” It’s attraction/seduction. Google “slow blink attracted” for a bunch on it. If she was looking away from him or something then it could be an IOD, but if she’s still looking at him it’s some bambi eyes shit lol Pay attention to how proximity adds to the tension, watch the Richard Laruina vid… Read more »

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@Scribblerg: I’m pretty sure most men also have strong ingroup preferences. Politics was rife with it before women were allowed in and you and Blaximus were just discussing how a bunch of men are racist in CH’s comment section. I’m very skeptical of any study that shows men have “very little” ingroup preferences, it runs against many of my own observations in many different contexts and it would take very solid proof to convince me of its absence. I’m inclined to believe women have even more ingroup preference though, but if that was your point it wasn’t clear to me.… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

Video of Camaro’s wife and future daughter (when you take her iphone away etc) going viral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdoQ_H4ODLI This girl will never change her ways because why would she? If she were a little dude he would’ve been knocked the fuck out the second he raised his fists. But this chick is going to face zero consequences. Even if she was charged society will paint her as the victim and she’ll just write it off as “that guy was a faggot or something” and continue being her sparkling shining self. @Camaro you wanna raise one of these for 18 years? ’cause… Read more »

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