A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Culum – While the circumstances were a little different – I only tried a real sugarbaby once – the seduction was always the same, I was mentor/provider – they were the prize, always.. I did learn some interesting things that I want to echo: I could flip the script sometimes and get them into a desirous state. When having sex, real dominance could be worked up to if I got them aroused enough. It could get pretty wild if the stars aligned just right and I think I needed to experience that againg, so I don’t regret it. It broke… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

@Distortion ” To be more specific on the art thing. To be great in many crafts, you need to spend most of your time perfecting it. The results, however are understood by only the small circle and not by the mass audience. That creates quality but lacks quantity and you wont get much popularity and status. I wander if there are more artists/scientists that have this crossroad in front of them. I know that “hypergamy wise” I should get on the business side of things. I found many guys on game forums discussing career goals and I feel like most… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Blaximus …Money doesn’t solve all problems in life. I’ve known a few wealthy people that have killed themselves and were absolutely miserable. I know, I know, everyone thanks that they’d be different, and there is validity to that up to a point, but if your mindset is off, money can’t always fix that and may just expand the problems of life or create more, horrible new problems. Speaking of this, the recent powerball lotto jackpot in the U.S. brought to mind a realization for myself. The realization was that winning such a lottery would probably be the most unhealthful thing… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer
Offline

“no battle plan survives contact with the enemy” this is true in all cases save one. the battle of the sexes. if a young man reads old CH, Rollo and Ya, he will know every move his female opponent will ever make and will preempt her with confident ease. driving men to the red pill with open hypergamy was a major tactical error. one from which women will never recover. if you must fall in love, fall in love with game. game and lifting are the same. in both places we push to failure in order to grow. lift as… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

@Jeremy, Lol… I pondered this also. A billion dollars. I have a love/hate relationship with fiat currency. I told the wife that I wouldn’t alert the lottery folks, if I won, for 2 or 3 weeks. She was puzzled, but I understand that a giant target would be placed on you, especially in the immediate aftermath. I played in the hopes that I had a chance at one of the lesser prizes, like a million or so. That’s much more manageable and reasonable. But in reality, would I ” want ” a billion dollars? I think not. Even giving a… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Distortion: The only thing I can add to the advice you’ve already been given is that . . . I have nothing to add to the advice you’ve been given. It’s good, solid stuff. @Jeremy: Once every year or four I’ll scoop up a buck’s worth of change from under the sofa cushions and by a lottery ticket. If I lose, I’ve only lost change I’ve already given up as lost. If I win; holy fuck would that fuck up my life. My lawyer and accountant would have to put in a good deal of work before I even thought… Read more »

having a bad day
Guest
having a bad day
Offline

@Rollo “For as much as I’ve detailed mens’ burden of performance, there is still a set of men who get offended by it because they think that performance is exclusively for the approval of women. It’s not. That burden, prerequisite or privilege if you like is about the merit and character of the man. Women’s attraction/arousal may be a byproduct of that performance, but men do not have the option to opt out of how it reflects on him. Even when you cop the mindset of “well, I don’t care what anyone thinks of me” that itself is an article… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“it almost feels like some kind of shaming component is in play (like meeting my burden of performance but doing so NOT for the purpose of getting the approval of women, but for the purpose of ‘proving up on my character as a man’ is just ‘wrong’)…”

Open up your eyes, and your ears, and your nose, and you will find that the sight, noise and smell of that shaming is pervasive in your environment.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

AVfM is basically turning into Vice now.

“Women ruin everything…”

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Blax

… did I just say ” cocaine ” on TRM????

kobayashii1681
Guest

” In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women.” And here is crux of it. Men being idealistic is not the problem; however, an imperative has pervaded our idealism for it’s utility. Thing is, the urge to take advantage of our utility I not some mistake, but, stems from a certain mechanism, a mechanism which, under current conditions is experiencing a positive feedback, it’s out of control. Our brother, like most of us before… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Distortion – A few thoughts come to mind, in no particular order. The art vs. money thing is a cliche and an ego buffer. As a writer and singer/songwriter I’ve had to find the right place for these things in my life. One can balance these tradeoffs many ways, but the key is to understand these decisions are tradeoffs and you shouldn’t be thinking in absolutes. I have friends who pursue art as a hobby – singing in a choir, painting and displaying at local galleries. doing photography projects. Me – I won’t do paying musical gigs, I either play… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Blaximus, did you just say…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJyQpAiMXkg

…on TRM?

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

I actually have far more respect for Karen Straughan than I do for Paul or Roosh. As hilarious as it is to say, I think Karen understands masculinity and the burdens inherent to it better than Paul by far, and likely better than Roosh.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Summing up Rollo on Roosh – watch what he does, not what he says.

having a bad day
Guest
having a bad day
Offline

@kfg

“Open up your eyes, and your ears, and your nose, and you will find that the sight, noise and smell of that shaming is pervasive in your environment.”

but…but…she’s not LIKE that…she’s different!…lol…

i get it…i’m just having trouble applying it to my own life…it’s my cultural scotoma…but i’ll work through it…it just takes effort and time…

and getting outside my comfort zone…

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
Offline
The Question
Guest

@ Rollo Tomassi

Thank you for sharing that. I work in media so when things like this happen I assume there’s more to the story than what’s getting out.

The Question
Guest

@ Rollo Tomassi

I thought it was strange that he allowed the BBC to attend one of his speeches. What if someone at BBC leaks the unedited footage out to the Internet and destroys these men’s lives?

Just to clarify, I report at a local level, not national. My interest in this rift is solely in finding out what’s what when it comes to the manosphere. My experience reporting has just taught me to be suspicious of everything I read, ironically enough.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Personality cult income is the new side-job in a facebook-upvote-enabled culture and financialized economy.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Jeremy – Finally, something we can agree on economically/politically. Indeed, our financialized economy has so distorted the system, and dejected people are looking for heroes. It’s not just the internet which makes personal brands so attractive to people, it’s also the desperation of the populace. I launch my own brand on a larger scale late this year (working on the book etc. now). It’s in my domain of tech/startups/sales and the cult of personality thing is just so big in business now. Social signaling too, as after all, how does one succeed in a financialized economy? By who you know,… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately
Offline

“The main key to note is watch Julien and look at his subcomms…he’s not being “malicious”, he’s self-amusing with zero outcome dependence.” “All that matters is how internally confident you are and how does that reflect in your subcomms.” This is my failure, my internal state of mind is that I’m a fraud, by projecting a IDGF attitude I hide my inadequacies. The more I delved into my past the more I realised the presence of heavy shaming in my past. Interestingly my research into sports psychology inadvertently lead to something known as Affect Theory and the role ‘shame/humiliation’ has… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@scribbler

Looks like you’ve thought about this a lot more than I have. I’m still angry about it.

hank holiday
Guest
hank holiday
Offline

@Culum Struan @jorxster Oh I can move and already plan on it. My plan was continue working where I am at now for another year or so. I am trying to get a job in a field that is universal — you can work literally anywhere in the world with that kind of job. Thing is its tricky to get the job as most employers want you to be certified (which I am not), however I do have experience in my current job, which is VERY similar to the one I want to get. After 6mo-1yr working at a new… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Hank: “A new place will have the same bullshit that I deal with here, but more of the things I do like.”

And more of the things you don’t like. The inland desert doesn’t get hit by a lot of hurricanes and tidal waves.

But now that you’ve clarified, your head seems screwed on at least reasonably straight.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

Positive affects like enjoyment/joy and interest/excitement can be driven away by negative affects, with shame/humiliation being the primary negative of positive states. Once in a shame/humiliation state (Affect) it is very difficult to switch back to a positive state. This says something very interesting about blue pill men who have run into the wall of a dead bedroom. Given the way the amygdala seems to work, I daresay that it would not take too many humiliating nuclear rejections by a “trustworthy” woman in an LTR / marriage to create that affect. Such men would find themselves asking for Cialis or… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Jeremy

Maybe I’m fucked in the head, but more and more lately when I’m pissed somebody’s making money off something, part of it’s that I’m just jealous they’re making easy cash. The result is less anger and more willingness to look for similarly stupid/easy revenue streams for myself.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Wait, did Roosh actually take credit for making Rollo’s sex life better?

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

I have no issue with people making money. IDGAF if they make millions, if that’s what’s important to them. It’s like people masturbating 24/7, it’s none of my business. What I do have an issue with, is an economy that is so shitty, that people are forced to adapt a thief’s mentality. Get mine however. I have a lot of experience with people with that particular mindset. I also have a problem when people become money hungry. If they are thinking money will fill some kinda hole in their existence, well, that’s their problem. When their money crazed lust starts… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

Roosh should call his stuff “Reactionary Red Pill”. Anti-homosexual, anti-evolution, pro “race-realism” = racist, pro-theism and incredibly misogynist – yes, his sites are filled with raging hatred against women. He’s bitten off far more than he can chew. He also doesn’t seem to understand how movements and ideas grow and evolve. First off, he did not invent the idea of Alpha males or Beta Males. But perhaps he was the first PUA to begin talking about it more globally. He also wasn’t the first PUA. He may have coined the term “Red Pill” but even then, that’s an idea ripped… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

Roosh also promotes “Kratom” on his sites, a naturally occurring stimulant and mood enhancer. Here’s a little snipped on Kratom “Long-term use of kratom produced anorexia, weight loss, insomnia, skin darkening, dry mouth, frequent urination, and constipation. A withdrawal syndrome was observed, consisting of symptoms of hostility, aggression, emotional lability, wet nose, achy muscles and bones, and jerky movement of the limbs. Furthermore, several cases of kratom psychosis were observed, where kratom addicts exhibited psychotic symptoms that included hallucinations, delusion and confusion.” No, he’s not a crank…here’s the link where ROK raves about Kratom, of course with an affiliate link… Read more »

Ang Aamer
Guest
Ang Aamer
Offline

Why I don’t hate women – because weak men allowed this to happen The DIVIDED LINE comment that Rollo responded to. Stated ‘This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.”’ Indeed they are awful they are human females that when left to their own devices have created a horror show of human mating within westernized cultures. And If you want to see the end game of this westernized empowered women society death just visit Japan and talk to a 30+ single woman. Weak men in the past have done this: -Weak men told them they can… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“Roosh should call his stuff “Reactionary Red Pill” . . .” Pointing that out, or that he should just plain call it “traditionalism,” is why Roosh has accused the Manosphere of being the ones who turned on him. Oddly enough, the fact that it is reactionary is why Vox Day has supported him, and Roosh accepts that support. The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels. “Roosh also promotes “Kratom” on his sites . . .”… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” . . . our future as a culture DEPENDS on them having babies.”

Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

Yes, yes, the babies must be there, but if they aren’t taught the traditions of a culture, the culture dies no matter how many babies there are.

stuffinbox
Guest
stuffinbox
Offline

After she acts manly ,guilt tripping,shaming or emasculating it is very unatractive. who would want to engage with that?That’s when I need to step up game and change things but don’t care to generally this self corrects or is forgotten.Internalizing TRP and game will prevent or slow down the ocurance hopefully. A truly wealthy man is one that knows when he has enough.Money is only worth what you can get with it.Fuck the more you get the more you need.Greenspan said his plan would have worked if it wasn’t for unbridled greed maybe he should have considered that in his… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

For that matter, The Matrix stole it from Total Recall.

stuffinbox
Guest
stuffinbox
Offline

Cheked out Roosh a few months back and can see why he needs a body guard no thanks.

The Question
Guest

@ Rollo Tomassi

“I can show you post on SoSuave from 2003 where we were using “Red Pill” as an idiom then. Roosh neither coined nor invented the term.”

Even if he did, I don’t really see how that would help someone’s case for having ownership of the Red Pill or being the arbiter of what the Red Pill is and isn’t, because philosophy is about truth, and no one has ownership of truth. Truth isn’t based on what a certain person says it is. It just is what it is.

LostInThePlantation
Guest
LostInThePlantation
Offline

@Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy I hear you re the role of culture and its impact on young men. And there are still masculine kids coming through the ranks, but nothing on par with the 1930s for example. Declining testosterone levels are also at odds with the surplus of Alphas that should be walking around after a couple of decades of almost unrestrained hypergamy. Where I live I can see hypergamy in motion for myself – the number of single moms knocked up after short affairs with jerks is staggering. There are definitely a small percentage of men getting… Read more »

Culum Struan
Guest
Culum Struan
Offline

YaReally et al – I have a couple of other points to make but I just saw that Julien video you linked yesterday (about the ugly night club owner in Vegas who uses social proof and body guards to literally take the hottest girl to his table and then his office to bang them). I just wanted to add that you don’t have to be a nightclub owner or anything. A buddy of mine in a decent sized city (but no Vegas) used to be a manager of a regular nightclub – not the owner or anything. He used to… Read more »

hoellenhund2
Guest

And then I go to Return of Kings and I see his flying monkey brigade slobbering over a story of a drunk 21 year old girl who ran out of a party in shorts and a tank top, angry and out of control, in -6 degree weather and due to being so drunk apparently fell down or passed out, and then died of exposure. The feral peasants there are tearing her to shreds claiming they are glad she died and calling her a cunt. Because she was troubled. She somehow represents all women and their issues. Except that they didn’t… Read more »

hoellenhund2
Guest

The problem, from Roosh’s point of view, is that “reactionary” and “traditionalism” are both already established “brands.” That doesn’t help him at all. He’d just be the new kid under those labels. An ever bigger problem is that he’s trying to recruit useful idiots for his “movement” among one particular demographic: single, mostly white, middle-class betas. Unfortunately for him, the competition there is absolutely fierce. Other movements who want to recruit useful idiots, i.e. expendable foot soldiers in some new culture war, exactly from the same demographic, include: – feminists and SJWs – MRAs – tradcons – churchians – white… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Ya & Culum – Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid, but that is to miss the point, yes? A couple of thoughts, tell me what you think, please. – Younger women expect more social status/value from an older man so if you go all court jester, it backfires. Already happened to me, and went against my instincts. – This is why the mentor role works so well. It assumes a frame of high value as young woman won’t submit to… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Hollen – Look up the word “implication” and have a nice day. Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out. You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall. I know that you think that’s just peachy, but in the real world such politics and ideology makes you a cretin.

Culum Struan
Guest
Culum Struan
Offline

Scribblerg, some interesting points there. First, I should say I’m 36 so my perspective on this is from dealing with 18-19 year olds. That said, I see your point. I don’t like to think of it in terms of what a young girl “expects” because that is falling into HER frame. But yes, a girl who likes a 40-55 year old doesn’t like him because she likes 6 packs (she gets much better ones from 22 year old guys) but because she likes his confidence and frame and experience. I don’t want to get metaphysical on this distinction – we… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Ang & KFG – I agree that in part it’s the fault of men that women have run amok. But I also think this is where people overplay the role of the FI in a sense. The radical egalitarianism and collectivism and materialism (in Hegelian/Marxist sense of the word) of 19th century political and moral philosophy, which destroyed classical liberalism, created such a fertile ground for the FI to run amok and for cultural nihilism that I don’t think seeing culture without these factors is a complete analysis. Some say the FI gave rise to these developments – I’m not… Read more »

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline

comment image

Gif from a huffpo piece on the reaction of married people given the chance to try tinder. If the FI approves marriage, it’s safe.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

See, it looks to me like her mouth is saying “Come here and fuck my pussy.” But maybe I’ve been watching too many bad lip syncing videos.

imnobody00
Guest
imnobody00
Offline

Is a false choice. Blue Pill idealism (making women our reason to live) or nihilism? This implies that the only idealism possible is having a Blue Pill marriage. As Red Pill guys, we know the story. When a man discovers that he cannot have a Disneyesque marriage (because of the FI), he loses the reason to live, the will to live. He feels void and despairs. Been there, done that. But historically this is an anomaly. Men didn’t put their reason to live in a woman. They made God, nation, being a patriarch or having a mission the goal of… Read more »

Bachelorocles
Guest
Bachelorocles
Offline

I respectfully would add step 3: learning that Blue Pill existence is anything but ideal. It is, in fact, a state of wretched slavery in which a man sacrifices his deepest biological desires, his dreams, his independence, his friends, and his lust for adventure in order to satisfy his woman’s deepest biological desires. It sets him on the treadmill of endless, mindless, purposeless work, stress, and unfulfilled longings. The FI blue pill conditioning is so sinister and runs so deeply that blue pill betas actually come to believe the fraud that the woman in a LTR is the one who… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

@scribblerg “Easy to get the wrong impression that you have to be a club owner or CEO to get laid when you are older from that vid” Only if you stop listening after the Dre story and miss the part where he experiments with the frame itself His point is that it’s the FRAME that matters. The owner of the club has the right frame because he knows he’s got value there, whereas you might walk into the same exact club but the bouncer was a dick to you and you’re there without a friend and you’re way older than… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

@scribblerg @culum More tips on creating the kind of high value that a nightclub owner would have so that you become the “guy to know” in the room even though you’re just some random dude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkKURdjtIQ Julien’s SHIFT infield has excellent footage of him executing this merge sets stuff. In that video he’s describing this documentary thing so you can see the infield he’s talking about (at 6:10, the set starts at exactly 6:16 when the white shirt guy (the future RSD instructor Max in his chode days as a student lol) is shaking the orange hoodie girl’s hand, compare… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

(also it’s important to remember that Mystery doesn’t drink, Julien doesn’t drink, Tyler doesn’t drink, Max doesn’t drink, Todd doesn’t drink, like, the only money you have to spend to do what these guys are doing with merging sets and everything is cover to get into the venue if you live near them and don’t have to pay for travel costs…and if you have a venue with no cover, you can just GO OUT and have hot girls UP ON YOU like this, for FREE, just by understanding the strategy and psychology that PUA teaches…you can do this THIS WEEKEND… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Ya – More to come. I’m inspired so i’m heading out to my fave cafe to finish up the day working there, and to work the young student hotties and staff – one of whom I’ve worked up into a lather but haven’t been able to isolate. So much of what you said resonates and makes sense. Fucking it up like I’ve been doing is necessary to “get it” though. While I’m not looking to “challenge” myself the way you are, I do find cold approaching is the best way to reveal my fucked up internals, and those internals sabotage… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

Somehow this came to my inbox and I had to share it. This is what women spend money on, especially up here in crunchy, progressive, “strong, independent woman” country in Southern NH (same politics as Vermont). Look at the title “Lover Yourself Women’s Event” – the speakers are “angelic hearler & medium”, “spirit medium” and “compassionate clairvoyant”. You don’t see men doing this shit.. I notice this crap is also almost the exclusive preserve of post wall women, not young women. It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot –… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

I just reflected on something I did in the past five years and wanted to share it in a comment. YaReally and Scribbler talked about mentoring young women game. There is another side of mentorship that is very important to young men and that is for a man to get a male mentor to become more masterful at something. To get more masterful at game to meet and attract women. To be more masterful at LTR’s from a male mentor. I had a great experience in me obtaining two mentors back then, 4-5 years ago. One was in deer hunting… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

scribblerg, I’m sure that women attending the event will have more than one emotional pop, maybe a spike or two, perhaps from a Tarot or Rune reading, perhaps from a make-up session followed by a glamour photo. If nothing else, the pub is open in the afternoon. So they’ll get to have a little emotional roller coaster ride, and maybe bring a trinket home as a souvenir. In other words, women will be women, rather than be men. It’s a feature. Maybe you should go, just in a mode of self-amusement. “Oh, Tarot and Rune reading? What nonsense. Everyone knows… Read more »

Culum Struan
Guest
Culum Struan
Offline

That’s a great post about mentoring SJF. Good summary. I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

(Also the above shows why most organized mentorship programs like you sometimes see in large companies etc don’t work)

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

kfg
Culture is not hereditary. Culture is traditional. It isn’t bred, it’s taught.

How do you know this to be true?

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

@Culum

I haven’t got to that part of SHIFT yet, but I will.

I actually don’t have the patience for the videos (nor the need for single guy game) and somehow I came across that in a PDF notes file attached to “Making a SHIFT”. I recognized in reading it, in retrospect, what I had done to have these mentors/great guy-friends. And you can see the obvious parallels to pick up artistry.

Note: PUA game is fungible for all relationships and all pursuits in life as well as for my LTR married man game. And it is invaluable.

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline

Love Yourself

This is Justin Bieber’s latest single (currently 3rd on the Billboard charts):

Cause if you like the way you look that much
Ohhhh baby you should go and love yourself

which means go fuck off

His #1 single, Sorry, taps in emotionally, and his go fuck off song hits with “bad” emotions

Sign up to the Go Fuck Yourself Women’s Event, space is limited

newlyaloof
Guest
newlyaloof
Offline

@SJF, epic mentoring comment. I’ve done similar, and the results are exactly what you state – knowledge, money, friendships, memories. One trait that makes this easy for me is I’ve naturally been empathetic and curious about other people and generally find a way to like almost all people. That goes a long way.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Anon – That event will be attended by cossetted, post-wall women who I can fuck pretty much at will if I’d like. The chances of <25yo hotties being there is exactly Zero, lol. I'd actually read Rollo's chick crack post a while back, and that's kind of why I posted it. The spiritual angle is a good one, when I was a buddhist chicks would get all moist over it. Anything magical gives them a spike, gotta get their fantasy hamster going. Just pussied out on making a cold approach on a 22 yr old HB8. Very public setting and… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

@redlight

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@AR: By studying the history of traditions. Having lived in what we call “traditional” cultures. By noting that I am, culturally, firmly rooted in 20th century New England, not the Rhine delta of the 3rd century where my father’s family came from. By knowing second generation Chinese girls who speak fluent Valley Girl, but virtually no Chinese. By knowing army brats who are never able to fully assimilate into the country of which they are actually a citizen. By knowing that even non-human animals can be taught culture. By knowing the culture I was born into and comparing it to… Read more »

camarowoes@gmail.com
Guest
camarowoes@gmail.com
Offline

It feels hopeless and i am definitely cynical. I’m in the process of unplugging and i find myself married a year into a relationship with a hb 8.5 women who has two kids before me, she’s still “attached” to her ex, she’s recently physically abusive and what brought me here was searching google looking for advice from other men who were in my situation. I put up with so much bs from her thinking she was the prize, she even talked me into meeting her ex which led to him hitting me in the face and me giving him 23… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

@ScribblerG “It makes me think about the advice to make god, your mission – hell, the fucking coffee pot – your focus, anything but women as crucial for a man. Perhaps this a compensation women are making who have rejected traditional religion and men? They crave something, anything so badly – they’ll fall for this crap. Just amazing. It’s also wrapped around narcissism, sigh…” It is one thing to make yourself better as a man. And it is an entirely different thing, then, to relate to the feminine in a relationship. Women are like that and we have to go… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

” “Never mention which drugs”? Why does that matter? Again, if a 35-yr-old, jobless white beta exposed himself to similar types of dangers – I’m pretty sure Senegalese men are more likely to be infected with venereal diseases, and more likely to kill or beat their white girlfriends, than white men – and got killed as a result, nobody would sympathize with him anywhere.”

Lol….

http://www.johnkanesmith.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/john-kane-smith-lettering-fuck-outta-here-560×372.jpg

Motherfuckers just can’t help themselves. It’s a never ending cycle of amazement.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

kfg, do you know of any sons who act like their fathers or grandfathers? Know of any daughters who act like their mothers, aunts, grandmothers?

In your opinion, is any percentage of a human’s behavior inherited?

redlight
Guest
redlight
Offline

@yareally

Bo said he was sorry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7sdvxEuQkH8

@hopelesshypergamy

At this point have you read all of Rollo’s posts, and if so, what’s your fav?

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

Ya says- ” But if you were just some fucking jobless bum and still viewed yourself as entitled to bang the hottest girls and that mentality spread, it would be chaos for society. We have an unwritten societal rule: you have to earn things and sacrifice yourself for other people’s interests and waste your entire life chasing shit you don’t need and if you manage to do it, THEN you’re ALLOWED to feel like you have value. Until then, you are a fucking WORM. DON’T approach that girl, you aren’t GOOD ENOUGH. You’re a piece of shit. But if you… Read more »

having a bad day
Guest
having a bad day
Offline

@camarowoes@gmail.com

that’s a tough situ to be in, but at least you are taking action…your options are stay married or get divorced…if you are going to stay married…you will have to alpha up…

if you are going to get divorced, do it asap…the longer it goes, the harder it is to untangle your situ…and from what you’ve said (and your attitude), this seems the best course of action for you…

also, be aware that it’s possible/likely that she’ll be looking to have an ‘oops’ pregnancy…

good luck!

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

FR: 25 yo hb7, nice body. She sits down not to far from me with a huge sigh and of course, I approach based on the sigh asking, “Wow, what is that all about?” I never have trouble opening when it’s even partially easy to do so. Get her talking, laughing, sharing about her life. Build some value with my biz and how I help people. Get her to open up about how stressed she gets sometimes. Going well but I detect some resistance as I escalate – all very subtle. Then she mentions the BF. She complains he’s too… Read more »

IAS
Guest
IAS
Offline

@camarowoes: you may want to read up on Married Red Pill reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill
If you already know for sure you want out, lawyer up and like said above, be in control of the birth control (one of Rollo’s rules).

IAS
Guest
IAS
Offline

@Kfg: I saved this comment of yours because I wanted to ask about it.

http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/14/women-improving-men/#comment-135882

Regarding the 5% for diversity, where did you get this from? Link to a study would be great if you have it, or some hints for me to google search it.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
Offline

@Camaro – Dude, welcome. Married guys here will have better insights but some thing jumps out at me. You are done, you know you are done. Detach, stay cool, make a plan and move on – on your own terms. Learn from this. Also, record everything – are you in a one party or two party recording state? Be alone with her as little as possible. Don’t be alone with her kids or ex. Work late, do things with friends, take up a new hobby. Don’t play Daddy to her kids anymore (if she turns on you a child abuse… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

I watched the Julian video posted by YaReally above: “You’re Not Your FUCKING Khakis: How To Destroy Your Comfort Zone (Fuck Situational Confidence)” That is the TL;DR version of some things expounded on in two very important masculine self improvement books. It is indeed the essence of the keys to the book “Antifragile” and how to overcome an addiction in “The Biology of Desire” (the addiction here being one’s one old blue pill self), and how to SHIFT into a new PUA self. Some readers here may benefit from the very long DO READ books that I reference and you… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Camaro,

Cosign with scribbler’s comment. Your wife either has an IQ of 30, or she’s a psychopath. Women who know men intimately know how to push their buttons and know what will provoke them to physical action. The fact that she encouraged you to meet up with her ex, when she knows the temperament of both of you, tells me that she was probably screwing with both of you and either wanted to see a physical confrontation between you two, or expected it might happen and did not care.

Protect yourself now.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@AR: As to your first question, you have asked the wrong one. The correct question is do I know any identical twins separated at young age, preferably at birth, who act like each other and like their birth parents. And the answer is that I do not know any, but I know that such comparisons have been done and that there is a better than chance correspondence, but not a determining one. The tendency is there, but it does not rule. With children who grew up with their parents the correct question is are there any who do not act… Read more »

hoellenhund2
Guest

You are far “alt right” and Christian nationalist and white supremacist from what I recall. I’m not a Christian. Organized Christianity in all of its forms has become a vehicle for gynocentrism worldwide, and for that reason I reject it. Color me as not shocked that you are a-okay with the feral, rabid hatred and nastiness being spewed at ROK and CH day in and day out. Maybe in another universe I’d not be okay with it. But in the current reality, I understand that such forms of expression become inevitable when the mainstream media suppresses all manifestations of sex… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer
Offline

“because girls don’t actually care if you OWN the nightclub, they care that you have the same subcomms as the guy who DOES, because that implies you have high-value.” the guy who “owns” the club doesn’t even own it. odds are he borrowed money from a bank to get the lease and build it out. he borrowed money from the bank to meet early payroll and the liquor is delievered with 30 day terms. the guy who gave him the lease borrowed money from the bank to buy the land and put up the building and the guy who delivered… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus
Online

” …race realism ”

Okay, tell me about myself using all of your brilliant observations.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Camaro: When I first went to a divorce lawyer she told me, “Normally I would advise clients to stay in the house for legal reasons, but in your case we need to get you out of the house now and worry about the legalities afterwards.” The second biggest mistake I made in my life was waiting two years to take her advice. But at least she was primed and waiting to deal with my situation when I finally did. Get legal council now and get prepared while your wife is playing good girl, so that you can jump with 60… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” “ownership” is fake.”

Molon labe.

Camarowoes@gmail.com
Guest
Camarowoes@gmail.com
Offline

The first time she struck me I just sat there dazed like wtf just happened. We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again. Well it happened again about a month later, then again about two weeks after that. On the last occurrence I called the police and while she was laughing about the whole thing like It was a joke they showed up, she admitted to striking me,and she was hauled off to jail. The first person she called in jail was her ex, he didn’t answer so she had her best friend bail her… Read more »

hoellenhund2
Guest

And an off-topic observation concerning the dominance of the female imperative. If hypergamy is winning, and women are out there riding the alpha cock carousel and generously rewarding the Alphas, bad boys, douchebags and jerks with pussy time – why is the first generation of males birthed by these women the biggest bunch of pussies in human history? You can blame the feminized culture to some extent, and the comfort and ease provided by the West, but even physiologically there is a noticeable increase of scrawny, slack-shouldered, oval faced kids. That noticeable increase probably took place in your vicinity, and… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

“We talked about 3 hours and she promised never to do it again.” We how about you promise us that you will never do that again….talk for three hours to the feminine. Everything you just said is easily explained in great detail by Rollo Tomassi’s 450 essays. Too bad you don’t have time to read them. Welcome here as a reader and a commenter. We feel for you. But as guys i n a group of men, will challenge you. You will want to offer your brutal honesty (as you have already done) if you are to grow. We respect… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@Camaro: “Is that oneitis?”

Yes, and perhaps even worse. I’d like to tell you to snap out of it, but I know you can’t. What you can do is do what you should no matter how much you don’t want to. Yes, it will be very, very hard, but it is possible.

And believe it or not, you don’t need easy, you only need possible.

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

At Hollen-scheisse-hound

You waded into a deep hole of shit there.

On the wrong blog, with the wrong topic, among the wrong group of men.

Stop. Put the shovel down. And stop digging.

hoellenhund2
Guest

I wasn’t the one who brought up RoK and CH on this thread, dear JSF.

On a different note, the Man Up Brigade is at it again:

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/gop-strategist-calls-trump-supporters

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

@Camarowoes

“After all the stuff that I’ve put myself through the loss of sleep anxiety getting sick feeling depressed is it because I’ve been conditioned since birth to believe that as a man I’m somehow supposed to just deal with it is that the reason why something inside of me continues to tell me that this is the way it’s supposed to be?”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumption_trap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

SJF
Guest
SJF
Offline

I didn’t say you did. I said you are digging in shit.

having a bad day
Guest
having a bad day
Offline

@Camaro i dont’ have a lot of time to write up a proper response right now, but wanted to address this so you’re not hanging…and i’m sure the other men here will weigh in too… “The thing that scares me the most is the fact that I still want to be with her that there’s some part of me that wants to give her another chance. Is that oneitis? ” like kfg says, it sounds like it’s something much worse…asperational beta syndrome (ya, i just made that up…but i needed a term to describe this…)…oneitis is where you pretend that… Read more »

%d bloggers like this: