The Red Pill Balance

Before you move on to reading today’s post, please take 14 minutes and listen to Niko Choski’s latest here Man:the being made of stone, it’ll be relevant in the second half of this post.

Niko is MGTOW, and from what I know is fairly highly regarded in that sphere. I did an interview with him back in August and since then have become a semi-regular listener of his youtube channel. We’ve occasionally bounced ideas off one another since the interview and I hold Niko in the highest respect for his intellectual approach and insights.

So it’s with that in mind that I’m going to use his latest offering here as a contrast to what I’m going into today.

Reader Divided Line stopped me in my writing tracks on another post with this comment from the last post thread. Not the least of which because I’d just finished listening to Niko’s audio here, but also because it was an interesting juxtaposition to what I’d planned to go into today. I’m going to quote Divided Line here and riff a bit as I go (emphasis mine):

@reloadedbeats

A lot of what you’ve said here echos my own thinking to such a degree that it’s as if you read my mind. I agree 100%.

What you’re talking about here, I think, is the inherent value of goodness or justice. I think Plato took up this question in the Republic and nailed it better than most.

In the beginning of the dialogue the question is “what is justice?” But it quickly transforms into “what is the value of justice?” In other words, if goodness wins us no reward, then what value does it have? Is it valuable in its own right? Would it have value even if it cost us something, or indeed cost us everything?

Glaucon puts the question like this (paraphrasing): “What if the perfectly just man is seen by everyone as perfectly unjust, while the perfectly unjust man is seen as perfectly just?” He then puts it on Socrates to effectively prove that, even in this scenario, justice would be worth it.

We could gender this question and simply ask “what if the perfectly good man is seen as perfectly unattractive to women, while the perfectly evil man is seen as perfectly attractive?”

Is goodness worth it even if it isn’t profitable sexually or socially? It’s the same question.

Why be a ‘good’ man when what we consider good by both personal and social measures isn’t rewarded (or only grudgingly rewarded), while what we consider ‘bad’ is what is enthusiastically rewarded with women’s genuine desire and intimacy? In other words, Hypergamy doesn’t care about what men consider good or bad.

It seems like this is the predicament red pill awareness puts us in when we have to consider the value of our formerly beta self. What makes the beta the beta is his weakness, of course, but it is simultaneously his civility. We’re not defective people for wanting or even needing the possibility love, empathy, truth, friendship, kindness, and – above all else – trust in our lives. It just makes us human. If we project our deeply rooted desires for these things and treat others the way we want to be treated, wouldn’t society be better off for it? And isn’t this what the supplicating, loyal beta does when latches on to a woman he believes to the “the One?”

No Quarter Given

In my post (and book chapter) Of Love and War I quote a reader who summed up this want for relief from men’s inherent Burden of Performance:

We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to

When I consider Niko’s perspective alongside this I begin to see a stark paradox; mens’ want for a relief or a respite from that performance burden tends to be their undoing. I wont get too deep into this, but one reason I see the MGTOW sphere being so seductive is the hopeful promise of that same relief. Simply give up. Refuse to play along and reject the burden altogether. Japan’s herbivorous men crisis is a graphic example of the long term effects of this.

However, this is the same mistake men make in their Blue Pill, Beta conditioning. They believe that if they meet the right girl, if they align correctly with that special ONE, then they too can give up and not worry about their performance burden – or relax and only make the base effort necessary to keep his ONE happy.

The Beta buys the advertising that his Blue Pill conditioning has presented to him for a lifetime. Find the right girl who accepts you independent of your performance, and you can let down your guard, be vulnerable, forget any notion of Red Pill truths because your girl is a special specimen who places no conditions on her love, empathy, intimate acceptance or genuine desire for you.

And this is also very seductive and inuring for the Beta who’s been conditioned to believe there can realistically be a respite from his burden.

That’s how it seemed to work in my own life. Looking back on it, I was so grateful to my ex, who was easily the most attractive girl I’d ever been with, that I would have taken a bullet for her. I didn’t want anybody else. I didn’t even think about other girls – the first time that had ever happened to me in a relationship. I can remember thinking that even if she gained weight, lost her looks, and got old, I’d still want her. I would have “loved” her forever. I was good and ready to cash in my chips, exit the SMV, and retire. I would have arranged my whole life around making her happy and would have felt lucky to have had the privilege.

At the time, all of that felt noble and brave, but looking back on it, it just seems pathetic and pathological, the result of my neediness. But the thing is, what if she had reciprocated it? Wouldn’t it have been a relationship worth having? Had she reciprocated it – if any woman was capable of reciprocating that – it wouldn’t have been Disney movie bullshit, but the real thing. We’re supposed to think such a thing is possible and that’s what keeps us playing along. The Red Pill is really about recognizing its impossibility, I think. There is no possible equity. To be sure, a woman can be loyal and dedicated to you, in theory, but she’ll only give that loyalty to the guy who needs it least. It’s like a cruel, cosmic joke.

Such as it is, that girl lied to me, ran for the hills the moment I showed weakness and needed her the most, and cheated on me. Big surprise, right? With a red pill awareness now I can see how predictable that result was, but at the time I was blindsided by it. I never saw it coming. I couldn’t understand how she could do such a thing when I’d invested so much in her, when I was so willing to give her all the things I’d always wanted most. I assumed she wanted the same things – men and women are the same, right? That’s what the egalitarians tell us. I couldn’t understand how those things could be so valueless to her that she would just throw it all away like that. She didn’t value them at all.

On occasion I’ve suggested that men watch the movie Blue Valentine. You can check out the plot summary on the IMDB link there, but you really need to watch the movie (on Netflix) to appreciate what I’m going to relate here. The main character suffers from the same romantic idealism and want for a perfected, mutually shared concept of love between himself and the single mother he eventually marries.

It follows along the same familiar theme of Alpha while single / Beta after marriage that most men experience in what they believe is their lot. More often than not the Alpha they believed their wives or LTR girlfriends perceived they were was really just a guy who’d do for their needs of whatever phase of maturity she found herself in.

By itself this would be enough for me to endorse the movie, but the story teaches a much more valuable lesson. What Dean (Ryan Gosling) represents is a man who idealistically buys the Blue Pill promise that men and women share a mutual love concept, independent of what their sexual strategies and innate dispositions prompt them to. Because of this misbelief Dean gives up on the burden of his performance. He drops his ambitions and relaxes with his ONE girl, contenting himself in mediocrity, low ambitions and his idealistic belief in a woman sharing and sustaining his romanticized Blue Pill love ideal – performancelessness.

He relaxes, lets his guard down and becomes the vulnerable man he was taught since birth that women would not only desire, but require for their false, performanceless notions of mutual intimacy. The men of this sphere who don’t find themselves divorced from their progressively bored wives are often the ones who trade their ambitions and passions for a life of mediocrity and routine,…so long as the security blanket of what they believe is a sustainable, passable semblance of that love (but not desire) exists in their wives or girlfriends.

Their burden of performance is sedated so long as their women are reasonably comfortable or sedate themselves. That false sense of contentment is only temporary and leads to their own ruin or decay.

No Quarter Expected

I’ve since watched something similar happen to a friend not once but twice. It’s textbook, standard shit. AWALT.

Cultivating these unrequited beta aspects of somebody’s character, if we did it on a mass scale, creates a society worth living in. It’s a civilized society where these things are most possible and it’s a truly worthwhile relationship where both parties regard each other this way and can full expect it to be reciprocated. It requires faith and trust, but we all know better. Our survival depends on knowing better, post sexual revolution. Women were never worthy of such trust and they’re entirely incapable of it. They were never capable of it. We were just supposed to think they were and cultivate the better aspects of our natures in order to be worthy of them.

The ugly truth of it is that women were never worthy of us.

Women’s sexuality doesn’t reward justice or goodness – if it did, reciprocity would be the norm and none of us would be confused about relational equity. Women reward not goodness, but strength. And strength is amoral, meaning it can be either just or unjust, good or bad. The guy with strength can either be the villain or the hero – it makes no difference to women. They can’t tell the difference and in truth don’t care anyway.

There is a set of the Red Pill that subscribe to what I’d call a ‘scorched earth‘ policy. It’s very difficult to reconcile the opportunistic basis of women’s Hypergamous natures with men’s hopeful, idealistic want for a love that’s independent from their performance burden. So the idea is again one of giving up. They say fuck it, women only respond to the most base selfishly individualistic, socio or psychopathic of men, so the personality they adopt is one that hammers his idealism flat and exaggerates his ‘Dark Triad‘ traits beyond all believability.

It’s almost a vengeful embrace of the most painful truths Red Pill awareness presents to us, and again I see why the scorched earth PUA attitude would seem attractive. Women do in fact observably and predictably reward assholes and excessively dominant Alpha men with genuine desire and sexual enthusiasm.

Agreeableness and humility in men has been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners.

The problem inherent in applying reciprocal solutions to gender relations is the belief that those relations are in any way improved by an equilibrium between both sexes interests. Solution: turn hard toward the asshole energy. Men understand the rules of engagement with women and they know Game well enough to capitalize on it so why not capitalize on that mastery of it?

The dangers of this are twofold. First, it lacks real sustainability and eventually becomes a more sexualized version of MGTOW. Secondly, “accidents” happen. MGTOWs will warn us that any interaction with a woman bears a risk of sexual harassment or false rape claims, but for the scorched earth guy a planned unplanned pregnancy on the part of a woman attempting to lock down her Alpha is far more likely to be his long term downfall. Emotional and provisioning liabilities for a child tends to pour cold water on the scorched earth guy.

It wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that women are philosophically, spiritually, and morally stunted. They have a limited capacity for adherence to higher ideals and this is why they don’t know or care what actual justice or goodness is. Like Schopenhauer said, they “mistake knowledge for its appearance.”

It took me a long time to be able to accept this. That is women’s true inferiority – and women are profoundly inferior. And I take no pleasure in recognizing that, as if I’m somehow touting the superiority of team men. It’s awful, in fact. Dealing with it is the ultimate burden of performance for us as individual men, but also as a society. At some point we’re simply going to have to confront women’s moral inferiority. If we look at our institutions, the very same that are crumbling now all around us, we can see that previous generations of men already figured this out. We just forgot what they knew.

So what’s the answer? Is justice valuable for its own sake? All of us would probably on some level want to be able to say yes and argue the case, but I don’t know if I can do so convincingly.

I’m with you on this, part of me thinks “Fuck this. It can’t be like this.” But it is. I wish I had the answer.

Niko attempts to redress the assumption that men feel some necessity to be someone they really aren’t. In Vulnerability I go into how the Feminine Imperative is only too willing to exploit this self-doubt by labeling men as existential posers and their conventional masculinity is a ‘mask’ – a false charade – they put on to hide the real vulnerability that lies beneath.

Unfortunately many men accept this as gospel. It’s part of their Blue Pill upbringing and is an essential aspect of their feminine ‘sensitivity training’ and gender loathing conditioning. When masculinity is only ever a mask men wear the only thing real about them is what real women tell them it should be.

What we don’t consider is the legitimacy of our need for strength, independence, stoicism, and yes, emotional restraint. That need to be bulwark against women’s emotionality, that need to wear psychological armor against the Red Pill realities of women’s visceral natures is legitimate and necessary. If a man’s vulnerability is ever it’s because his display of it is so uncharacteristic of his normal impenetrability. The woman’s demeanor, and the narrator’s voice, in the last post’s Campbell’s soup commercial is an example of the weak, vulnerability women expect from lesser child-men – and a commensurate expectation of him to just get that he needs to be strong.

That’s the inconsistency in women’s Hypergamous nature and the narrative of the Feminine Imperative’s messaging. Be sweet, open, vulnerable; it’s OK to cry, ask for help, be sick and weakened, we’re all equal and empathetic – but, Man Up, “what, you need your mommy?”, assert yourself, the asshole is sexier than you, where’s your self-discipline? – but, your masculine identity is a mask you wear to hide the real you,……

I play many roles in the male life I lead today, and I’ve played many others in my past. I’m Rollo Tomassi in the manosphere, I’m a father to my daughter, a husband and lover to my wife, a brilliant artist and pragmatic builder of brands in my job, an adventure seeker when I’m on my snowmobile and a quiet contemplator of life and God when I’m fishing. All of those roles and more are as legitimate as I choose to make them. Do I have moments of uncertainty? Do I waiver in my resolve sometimes? Of course, but I don’t let that define me because I know there is no real strength in relating that.

The Red Pill Balance

Red Pill awareness is both a blessing and a curse. The trick is balancing your Red Pill expectations with your previous Blue Pill idealism. It’s not a sin for you to want for an idealistic reality – that’s what sets us apart from women’s opportunism. You do yourself no favors in killing you idealistic, creative sense of wonderment of what could be. The trick is acknowledging that aspect of your male self.

KFG had a comment to this point:

If men did not hold heroism as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.
If women did not hold survival as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.

This was precisely the dynamic I was referring to when I wrote Idealism.

Men’s idealism and idealistic concepts of love are the natural counterbalance to women’s pragmatic, Hypergamously rooted opportunism and opportunistic concepts of love and vice versa. Those differing concepts can be applied very unjustly and very cruelly, or very judiciously and honorably, but they are the reality of our existence.

Red Pill awareness isn’t just about understanding women’s innate natures and behaviors, it’s also understanding your own male nature and learning how it fits in to that new awareness and living in a new paradigm. Is something like justice valuable for its own sake? I’d say so, but that concept of justice must be tempered (or enforced) in a Red Pill understanding of what to expect from women and men. Red Pill awareness doesn’t mean we should abandon our idealism or higher order aspirations, and it certainly doesn’t mean we should just accept our lot in women’s social frame because of it. It does mean we need to balance that idealism in as pragmatic a way with the realities of what the Red Pill shows us.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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keyser Soze
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@anonymous reader, and for Yareally’s anticipated reply.

No matter how little we think anatomy should matter to one’s social and political rights, surely we can’t pretend biology doesn’t matter in sports. Surely there’s a reason we don’t let adults play in the t-ball leagues, and a reason most women athletes want their own leagues.
Alice Dreger

I know, biology is a bitch (just ask the feminists).

kfg
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@AR: Yeah, but I’m in charge of my own headspace and I like to image Ann-Margret.

You win the pop reference prize of the day though.

Andy
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“I know, biology is a bitch (just ask the feminists).”

@keyser

You’re not a quick learner are you? The only thing you’re convincing me of is that some men are incapable of understanding the utility of separating themselves from their ego.

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newlyaloof Don’t let traffic, job, debt, wife, kid toy instructions own your composure. I chose to own mine 100% and life is much better this way. +1 on this. Sometimes in traffic I’ll see someone pounding the steering wheel, yelling. Looks really demented. I force myself to breath from the diaphragm if need be to stay cool when driving – makes for better, quicker decision making, too. When she yells and you yell back, she’s pushed your button and gotten a response. It’s like being on the grade school playground in a way. Try this – she yells at you… Read more »

Chump No More
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@Anon, good stuff, brother.

I would argue that ZFG is a mindset for life, not just handling women.

Abundance mentality is the key to ZFG… everything life throws at you is just a learning opportunity to successively fail less and ultimately gain mastery.

Dutchman
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@Kitten

lol. It’s not as if I don’t KNOW that I’m being retarded here. Like I’m not on Rollo’s site because I think he’s wrong about all of this shit. What I’m looking for with my posts is a technical breakdown of what’s actually going on, because it’s hard for me to analyze myself, and shit where I’m emotionally invested. I’d be giving the same kind of advice they are giving me if somebody else was posting what I’m posting.

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@anon reader

“Heck, ZFG works on all women, even relatives. ”

Funny thing is I’ve always been completely ZFG with my female relatives, and really any woman I wasn’t attracted to. Only the pretty ones bring out my beta lol.

Kitten Holiday
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@Dutchman I’m not judging you. It was an affectionate shake. I think it’s great you are getting advice and the support most of these guys are giving you I agree with 110%. Your plight is common and the solution they are recommending is exactly what you need to do. I just don’t think my opinion is valued here so I’m trying not to overstep but it’s hard for me because I like to contribute and I learn more by contributing than observing. I think you’re in good hands and you are doing the right thing. Your wife is lucky that… Read more »

keyser Soze
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@Andy,
Just ask Kitten how many times she separated her ego from herself.

Andy
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“I’ll go back to playing with my hamsters now.”

Are your hamsters telling you that you know how to be a man despite the fact that you have never, and will never be a MAN? I feel like maybe that’s what they are saying right now.

Also, here’s some advice for you… No MAN wants to be told how to be a MAN by a woman. You may want to limit your commentary to female perspectives.

Kitten Holiday
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@dutchman Damn it I can’t stop. ;0) “technical breakdown of what’s actually going on, because it’s hard for me to analyze myself, and shit where I’m emotionally invested.” Here’s what I see… as a woman. If you read what I said about shit tests this is very similar. Questioning your attitude is a shit test: are you an asshole? Do you not respect me? You’re not an asshole; however you may have had a disrespectful tone because she created a problem and needed correction. Even answering the question is an admission of guilt, which is a lie because you aren’t… Read more »

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@talprofs BTW do you have any recipes for cupcakes? My aunt has assigned me the task of making cupcakes for our family gathering. Boy, do these family gatherings ever stress me out! Anyway if I can find a good recipe I want to decorate them with individual wooden sculptures made out of dyed toothpicks. I find doing this so absorbing I can forget all the mean things everybody says about me. Which is the type of thing you say to her: @IAS If you want to drive her away from you romantically, I’ve read others suggesting to act very blue… Read more »

keyser Soze
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Separate ego from yourself!? You mean when you approach hb9 and she tells you, NOT a chance in hell , you’re supposed to be proud? Or a “quick learner ” or how about say to yourself : she’s a lesbian then.

keyser Soze
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Pussy Galore lol. Separate ego from pussy Galore
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nKkhy8v0M

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@kitten

all my 10 hours of thinking

moving the goalposts, try reading “good 10 times more hours” out loud

The only solution is shift to address the issue and correct it or shift to change the subject entirely, hopefully playfully.

But when you address the issue, address it in a tone of correction with a clear resolution. Resentment builds when there are only problems and no solutions. The resolution should be pleasing to you. The best (most fun and rewarding, imo) way …

I’m not telling anyone how to be a man

really?

keyser Soze
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Kitten, “but I’ve got many years experience being a woman.”
And how many years being a man?

Kitten Holiday
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Was responding to the issue and describing a breakdown of the situation and why it works.

I’ll go now. Have a great day.

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I’m actually a bit torn up about David Bowie. I’m surprised that I feel some kind of way over his death, but I always allow myself to feel whatever I happen to feel. I actually got to meet Bowie back in,,82 I think, or 83. By ” meet ” I mean I was in the same bar in the Village at the same time. He did speak though and was surprisingly unsurprising. It’s one of my fave stories, but I will not bore everyone with it right now. Serious Moonlight Tour ranks among my favorites of all time though. We’re… Read more »

redlight
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Rollo, Ya said he had post in mod (perhaps vagina size matters with a colorful chart) but it never appeared

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@Yareally

When you (or others) write a long post (I could say wall of text but you often have videos and other links) I suggest you do a copy all and save it somewhere, before clicking to post. That way if it disappears you can re-post it.

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comment image&imgrefurl=http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/motorcycles/supersport/yzf-r1.aspx&h=534&w=950&tbnid=vBaDDZ83tnUXWM:&docid=GD_xBxh3BZX12M&ei=QByUVrizCIbk-wHWj6ko&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi408bg16LKAhUG8j4KHdZHCgUQMwgxKAAwAA

Can always look for an after market seat

Water Cannon Boy
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That didn’t work right

Dutchman
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@Rollo

Reading now… I’m good at dealing her active/flirty type shit tests. Definitely need to work on the passive ones.

kfg
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“That didn’t work right”

You posted the Google search, not the actual image URL.

Water Cannon Boy
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Try the image EARL again

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy
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Never mind, yall know what I’m talking about

Forge the Sky
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Doncha worry Kitten, we’re on it! Hey Dutchman, you might remember a comment I posted a few days back about a former one-itis tormenting me at work. I know what I have to do about it, but getting concrete feedback and encouragement is helpful on the way sometimes. I improved the circumstance like 80% after feedback some months back, and now I’m finally fed up with the remaining 20% so I gave and update in order to get another kick in the ass. Maybe I’ll cut it out entirely this time. Same thing with your circumstance. I suppose I just… Read more »

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@Kitten – First off, your response to Dutch was great – I meant it when I said I appreciated your commentary. And in fact, in that comment you demonstrated more Red Pill understanding than I saw in your blog post on Red Pill dating. My opinion on your knowledge was based on the patronizing and denigrating way you described Red Pill men. but even worse was how reductionist it was. Many men here are not men who’ve been frivorced, yet that his how you characterized Red Pill men in that post. I also meant it when I said I appreciated… Read more »

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@Cheupez – Stop moving the goalposts. A MGTOW who doesn’t eschew women is not a MGTOW. He’s merely a Red Pill guy like the rest of us.

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@Dutch – You are getting great advice technically from the other guys but I think that first you should look inward at your “internal game”. I may be biased but it was when I changed my thinking, that is when my behavior changed. A few thoughts: – You see your wife’s “disrespect” as a reflection of your own value. You are too invested in how she sees you. This tells me that you aren’t “the prize” yet. When you get there, you will laugh and see her whining about you either as a shit test or a just a burden… Read more »

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@Niko – Fucking hooray! I did the same thing on my second MGTOW channel, told everyone basically what you said, deleted all my vids and went ghost. I was building a “big channel” but simply could not stand the hate and simplistic thinking in the MGTOW world. I also spent way too much time on it. Fyi, this is the only place in the manosphere I bother with and I’m 1000% better for it. So, now you are just a Red Pill guy like the rest of us, woohoo! Welcome. Now, start reading some YaReally shit and get working on… Read more »

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@redlight “When you (or others) write a long post (I could say wall of text but you often have videos and other links) I suggest you do a copy all and save it somewhere, before clicking to post. That way if it disappears you can re-post it.” Fortunately I did just that this time lol: @everyone Time to be a condescending asshole…I wish I didn’t have to. WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING ME HAVE TO HIT YOU LIKE THIS, BABY??? fucking lol’ing hard at the penis size stuff. I heart you guys but this shit is simultaneously the funniest and… Read more »

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Woah. Wonders never cease.

comment image

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+1 on ‘congruence’. But unlike Blaximus I do believe in “fake it till you make it”, because that works for some men. If it takes “I’m playing the role of Art Alpha tonite” to get some Game rolling, then do it. Just pick techniques that work with your personality – agree & amplify, bratty-little-sister, whatever. Pick small problems to deal with and run that Game. Philosophy statement: from reading Blaximus, scribblerg, Forge, and a lot more I conclude that when a man looks at his LTR / wife and says “Where’s the girlie that she was?” he should immediately look… Read more »

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” On top of that when it comes to sex most women haven’t even HAD good sex. Because most guys are shit in bed. Which again comes down to the same thing with muscles and money: if you are boring as fuck, then yes, those things will help you because you’re giving her nothing else to base her opinion on and she has to resort to those but if you would step up and make emotional impacts on women and quit being a fucking dialtone of mundane flatline emotions (or very slowly raising emotions, or only positive emotions never any… Read more »

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@Rollo
100% with it.

Blaximus
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Lol, I’m not finished Ya’s post yet but he’s on fire. ” I get that the older guys didn’t have the type of porn we have now so like, back in their day just fucking a girl missionary was basically what sex was, but like, educate yourself…” Lmao. Nah, not the case for the crowds I ran in back in the day. Missionary was for when you were tired as hell. I found g-spots before I knew they had a name, and I figured out clitoral stimulation by stimulating chicks clitoris.es..sss….whatever the plural is. Ya you killing me here..lol, You… Read more »

kfg
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Niko has had it with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ3tXcsOt_Y

Oddly enough, he’s a man who himself renounced the MGTOW label some time ago, but then has gone on to effectively declare himself the king of MGTOW, with IRL policing.

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@scribblerg
“I love to watch men evolve and grow. It’s uncommon and gets much respect from me.”
Buying you a drink for that. It means a lot to read and process that growth is essential.

Kitten Holiday
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@Scribblerg “Pedantic factotums like me will point out philosophical issues and remonstrate you.” That’s fine with me. That’s the reason why I comment is to hopefully add value and also receive correction if I’m off track. Both benefit me and because learning can be dynamic I trust the process benefits others as well. I’m not here to waste anyone’s time. “the patronizing and denigrating way you described Red Pill men. but even worse was how reductionist it was. Many men here are not men who’ve been divorced, yet that his how you characterized Red Pill men in that post.” Can… Read more »

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@Ya – Lol, talk about going off. I didn’t see anyone but Toad getting all worked up about this. And contrary to subcomms and game etc, actual sex is physical. Size may have some impact. I’m interested but not invested. LIke height, I don’t think about it and it never rented any space in my head – even with the chick who had the cavernous vadge. I didn’t feel bad, I felt like, “wow that is the biggest cunt I’ve ever fucked”. I think I lost my car keys in there… As an aside to Caveclown, it’s funny for me… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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re what guys knew before Internet porn:

Do a Google search on “Khajuraho”.

Blaximus
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Ya says- ” Another experiment: no sticking anything in her pussy. See if you can give them a mind-blowing enough experience without even opening their pussy lips to where they’ll come back for more. This should be EASY for you especially if you bring out stuff like blindfolds and handcuffs etc. Learn to get them to the edge and just drive them wild for hours till you can make them cum with full-body shaking “can’t form coherent sentences afterward” intensity just by lightly blowing across their clit, or lightly grazing a fingertip over it or sliding the tiny little tip… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Blax – Cosign, fucking younger guys now think they invented hot sex, lol. I was fortunate though. When I was 20, a 35 yr old nymphomaniac got hold of me for a few months. The second time I was fucking her she said, “Just stop.” I replied, “Why?”, my pride hurt. She said, “you have no idea what you are doing”, this stung even more. Then she said, “But I’ll teach you” and suddenly I thought “this could be fun”. She first taught me to make her come just by playing with her tits and fingering her – and then… Read more »

Blaximus
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@Anonymous Reader

” Because it’s easy for most men to slide into betaness, to comfort. Been there, done that, climbing way out of it. I have consciously set up situations where I am all but certain to Display Higher Value, and seen the response. ”

Cosign.

It’s easy for guys to slip into betahood because society encourages such, 24/7. All of the ” relationship advice ” slips a betanoose around your neck.

I agree with the tactic of setting up situations to display higher value. Absolutely. I hardly ever let a chance like that pass.

scribblerg
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@All – Isn’t it nice to see Kitten purring? @Kitten – As for the post, it was how you described Red Pillers as guys who had been frivorced, as I said. It was also how you were coaching women to be careful and supportive about the issue and how gunshy we are. We can move on from that, your commentary here makes clear you understand a bit more than I gave you credit for. I think you nailed something square on wrt the anger phase for sure. In a way, what we are about here is pulling men through the… Read more »

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@Rollo – I don’t know what you see in Niko, but maybe it’s just me or a I had a bad hair day when listening to him or something. I will give him another try and see if I can connect. It would be great to hear you once a month so regardless of my peccadilloes.

Blaximus
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@scribblerg- Yup. Now-a-days when I see porn, I think to myself ” he’s doing it wrong…”, lol. Older chicks can be a godsend when you’re younger. Older women are more confident and definitely more vocal. Junior year there was a Home Ec. teacher who was in her late 20’s-early 30’s, who never quite rejected my sexual advances, but instead she kept telling me I wasn’t ready for a woman. I stopped by her house almost every day during summer break and chatted her up through her screen door until eventually she let me in ” to get some water “.… Read more »

Pinelero
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mmmm… the FI is taking over the Red-Pill. At least they came to a rationale choice on where to gather data/ideas…

Sun Wukong
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@scribblerg

So you’re saying Barbara needs this shirt.

scribblerg
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@Pinelero – You know that your dick has uses other than furious self-flagellation while you watch other people have sex on a screen, right?

Andy
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“What would the interest be like if I were to do a monthly talk with him on YouTube this year?”

Personally, I celebrate your entire catalog.

Blaximus
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Rollo,

I think it would be cool to see a talk with Niko. I find him interesting and I wouldn’t mind hearing more of his thoughts and ideas.

Blaximus
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YaReally,

So you think it’s not good for me to slap a chick across the forehead with muh dick?

: )

scribblerg
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@KFG – Khajuraho features YaReally on a good Saturday night apparently…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3awhmHhsxqQ/UnYpLQ4gviI/AAAAAAAAARM/0v0F3QQtkHQ/s1600/khajuraho01.jpg

keyser Soze
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Pedat Ebediyah
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@Anonymous Reader There has been LARPing, AMOGing, and shit testing by both the standard RP/Game proponents, just as there has been with the random RP/MGTOW proponents in this thread, with ScribblerG being foremost. Not all RP dualists are like this, and not all MGTOW are like that. I’ve read volumes from both camps, and they are extremely diverse. I’m one for no one telling anyone what the fuck to do, in any context, but being bitchy and catty is feminine, and while the posters here are free to do that, it’s an interesting choice. Each man has to be self-motivated… Read more »

Pedat Ebediyah
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For what purpose and end?

scribblerg
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@Pedat – So how many times a day do you masturbate then?

scribblerg
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“I’ve gone my own way until a woman proves worthy of me” – So that’s the game then, claim none have met your standards after 50 years on this earth? Lol, you can bullshit yourself, but please, you are transparent to the rest of us. You are entitled to run your life as you see fit but you aren’t entitled to my respect. I think you are a fucking joke, and too goddamn bad if you don’t like it.

keyser Soze
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Blaximus
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Keyser-

Lol at the chick at 2:18 with her beta snuggling up to her as she checks out dudes bulge. Telling.

keyser Soze
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At 3:56, Nice

Pedat Ebediyah
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@Rollo So I’m going to take a poll here. Niko’s latest video renouncing MGTOW gave me an idea. What would the interest be like if I were to do a monthly talk with him on YouTube this year? Maybe an hour a month. Sure, why not, but since he’s not MGTOW it would take away the fun. I say that because regardless of the camp, the two should embrace the ultimate commonalities. I, for one, would be more interested in you engaging with Groundwork for the Metaphysics of MGTOW.  His series on Feminist Epistemology are ones that provide the intellectual… Read more »

Dutchman
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Well I tried escalating and being sexual (random make out attempts) with the wife tonight and was thoroughly rebuffed lol.

She said basically to stop invading her personal space because she was going to have a panic attack (which she legit does have sometimes, ugh). Now my inner beta is fucking with me saying “she needs you to be really comforting tonight.” I wish it would just shut the fuck up lol.

keyser Soze
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Yareally
“My dick could get chopped off by a psycho girl (knock on wood aka mah dick lol) or I could get the herp or something and no longer have a dick to fuck a girl with and I would STILL be able to get girls wanting to come over to hook up with me”

So, guys, gain weight, don’t lift, put a cheap T-shirt, and now, you don’t need your dick!
Biology and evolution is finally defeated lol.

digireaper
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@YaReally I enjoy reading your posts, I want to get good at the game but I have trouble in getting started. So far I went out only two times in like 4 weeks, it fucking sucks I know. I must improve. But, there is so much info out there regarding pickup to the point I don’t know where to start. Mystery Method? Juggler Method? RSD stuff? I don’t know what to do, when I went out I spent most of the time wandering around the club, my mind blank, trying to come up with something to open a girl, but… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“Junior year there was a Home Ec. teacher….” Holy hell I love the stories Blax. Top shelf. Having those kinda cajones is an inspiration. And maybe a bit timely, it just struck me today how I’m kinda starting to throw some of the same vibe out lately – just a little bit. My brain was trying to figure out if I should freak out about that, if something bad was going to come of it, but I think nah. I’m just not used to running on intuition instead of careful logic. It really just boils down to loving women enough… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo, I’ll give Nico a larger listen tomorrow and let you know what I think of the matchup.

@Kitten, oh I’ve got some criticism for you. But I’ll save it for comments at your blog sometime soon. Don’t worry, I don’t bite. Too hard.

Forge the Sky
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Man, the comments keep on comin’! @Dutchman Props, man! The chance of success for this little experiment were approximately zero – if you count success as being ‘she reacted in a sexual way.’ Are you measuring success in that way? I sure hope not. Eventually, yes, that will be the barometer. But at this point your behavior has become so stifled that just taking a fist and pounding against the cage a bit is healthy for you. So this was a success in discovering that a) I can actually do things that she doesn’t approve of; and b) I didn’t… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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hey @digireaper I’m no YaReally, but let’s see if I can give you an appetizer at least in case Ya is too busy to serve the main course. OK, sounds like you’re going out at least a bit. That puts you ahead of the great majority, props. You’ll never get anywhere without that. Second – you’re plumbing for reading material? If you’ve read a lot of YaReally you’ve basically got the best resource. But if you want something more systematic, read the Mystery Method. It’s usually what Ya recommends people to understand as the fundamentals. And watch RSD videos for… Read more »

keyser Soze
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Niko is a great respectful host, and true to himself. I’d say yes.

Pedat Ebediyah
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@Rollo @Pedat: http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/19/quality-women/ Making your necessity a virtue only roots you in place. Do you have any idea how many men (even in the christo-sphere) I’ve known who claim the same self-defeating moral high-ground you are? I appreciate you, and I hope my pontificating doesn’t lead one to believe it’s that deep for me. I read the Quality Women piece when it came out, and I agree with it wholeheartedly…well that part which I understand. That being, there is no such thing as a Quality Women, either objectively or subjectively, and as such we have to accept them as they… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Pedat Interesting commentary. My first thought – Christianity emphasizes that its followers are corrupt and imperfect. It also emphasizes that men are to be the spiritual leaders of a household and church, and that women are simply to do as they say in such matters. So I suppose I’m a bit confused by your insistence that any woman you date be highly spiritually advanced. Why not treat them as water ready to take on the shape of your vessel, rather than as clay that’s been poorly molded? Women are more malleable than you might think. Sure, they might take on… Read more »

Dutchman
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@Forge

“Props, man! The chance of success for this little experiment were approximately zero – if you count success as being ‘she reacted in a sexual way.’

Are you measuring success in that way? I sure hope not. Eventually, yes, that will be the barometer. But at this point your behavior has become so stifled that just taking a fist and pounding against the cage a bit is healthy for you.”

My criteria for success was just that I do it and not supplicate when she gave me shit about it lol. I succeeded in doing that so I’m pretty happy with that.

Dutchman
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“So, guys, gain weight, don’t lift, put a cheap T-shirt, and now, you don’t need your dick!”

I loled.

Dutchman
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@scrib “@Dutch – You are getting great advice technically from the other guys but I think that first you should look inward at your “internal game”. I may be biased but it was when I changed my thinking, that is when my behavior changed. A few thoughts: – You see your wife’s “disrespect” as a reflection of your own value. You are too invested in how she sees you. This tells me that you aren’t “the prize” yet. When you get there, you will laugh and see her whining about you either as a shit test or a just a… Read more »

Pinelero
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@scribblerg – “You know that your dick has uses other than furious self-flagellation while you watch other people have sex on a screen, right?”

Yes, of course….I also use it to hit the space bar when typing.

But really my 8:11 pm comment not to the one above mine, which seems to have drawn your ire, but more in general about one of Rollo’s older post about how females (i.e Kitten) are moving in on the Red Pill praxeology. Her blog was interesting and a good lightweight read compared to Rollo and Dalrocks.

Liz
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First, disclaimer I haven’t read any of the posts on this thread yet, just the topic piece written by Rollo, but I wanted to gather my initial thoughts on the piece. Mike is currently reading a book entitled, “The Warrior Mindset” and it describes the different in perception between something like a natural disaster as compared to something more personal. For example, contrast an example where a tornado hits a home and destroys the place, and the occupants sustain injury and a group of hoodlums entering a home, destroying the property and beating the occupants to the point they have… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Dutch, just curious – how would you describe yourself? Timid? Small? Medium build? Liberal? Geek? Tall? Short? Just want to get a picture of you so that your comments make more sense to me. Also, has this changed since the day you got married? And what about your wife? What is she like?

Liz
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Another thought on the “good” and “bad” paradigm. I think a really pertinent example would be my father. He used to tell me to “get back up on that bike” after I’d fallen a dozen times and there was blood all over my knees. He wouldn’t let me quit, and he told me not to cry. When I was 11 years old, a stack of drywall fell on me and my leg was pinned under it. When they lifted it off of me, my bones were shattered and the foot was flopped over at a weird angle. In order to… Read more »

scribblerg
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Preening, effete MGTOWs abound, lol. The presumed intellectual superiority and butthurtness are just so revealing and instructive. For men here actually engaged in positive masculinity and internal game this is a great object lesson in how ego investments and buffers work. Their belief in their ability to ignore their own sexual desire and the demonization of women is necessary for them to justify their inability to succeed with women. It protects them from the overt rejection they experience with women nonstop and also helps them deflect the low social status they receive due to their inability to function as healthy,… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Dutch – Thanks for the brutal honesty, this is perhaps what I respect most about this community. The men who admit just how fucked up their views are and are willing to work on it. I have a suggestion/question. Have you really bored down on Rollo’s work? Have you read his books? Have you forced yourself to read the posts? Example: I kept ignoring all the comments about ego investments and buffers – when I encountered them I literally could not even comprehend them. My ego was so invested that the very thought of how all that works just bounced… Read more »

Chump No More
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@Liz,

Good comments.

A very important male trait is resilience. Kids pick it up just observing their fathers in action or occasionally via direct mentoring. The innate pedagogy of men is brusque because coddling is not in our nature and counter-productive to the teaching of mental strength and resilience.

Women will never truly understand a man’s methodology, and in our present fem-centric/empowered society, ‘toxic masculinity’ is just another shaming tool to attempt control because women often fear what they do not understand.

newlyaloof
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@YaReally, you didn’t mention Sex God Method, but you have in the past so I’ll bring it up again. That was awesome eye-opening stuff, especially how he came to the method by accident one day after fucking his girl so hard that she was bleeding from the vag the next day and had to go to the hospital. But while he was fucking her, her psychological state was so stimulated that she didn’t feel that pain and was multi-orgasmic, thus proving that a big chunk of sexual pleasure is psychological. Big eye opener for me. I didn’t realize that I… Read more »

Dutchman
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@newly

Tall. Medium build (but getting fatter lol). Quiet. Sarcastic. Witty. Big time loner. Alt right type political views. “Introverted intellectual” type.

My wife is quiet but also “people oriented”, very intelligent, timid.

At the outset of our relationship I basically laid out how it was going to be.

I actually told her that I wouldn’t compromise on the fact that I was going to be the head of our relationship/marriage and if she wasn’t okay with that then we shouldn’t get married. But of course, I’ve slipped lol.

Niko Choski (@nikochoski)
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@scribblerg

Dude my game is not bad. Never was been into the scene since I was 16 so yeah… been there done that, and I don’t feel I need to anymore. I just get laid and date comfortably.

Though I discovered Rollo ?2 years ago and shared and purchased his books as presents for friends in need; he simply put together everything I knew. That’s why during building the youtube channel he was one of my most prized guests because he changed my perception of woman massively.

Dutchman
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@scrib “Thanks for the brutal honesty, this is perhaps what I respect most about this community. The men who admit just how fucked up their views are and are willing to work on it. I have a suggestion/question. Have you really bored down on Rollo’s work? Have you read his books? Have you forced yourself to read the posts? Example: I kept ignoring all the comments about ego investments and buffers – when I encountered them I literally could not even comprehend them. My ego was so invested that the very thought of how all that works just bounced off… Read more »

Andy
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@newly

I made a girl cum once fully clothed in a public place sucking on her earlobe or something like that. lol. That was a weird one.

Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy
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Have to be discreet here but, within the confines of mandatory anonymity, I can co-sign much of YaReally’s post which should be titled “So – you’ve slept with, uh, a lady – what’s it like?” I don’t have anywhere close to Capt. Ya’s N but I can nevertheless verify the utility of most of the techniques (except toys – haven’t had to use them). One last Amazing Medical Fact that dick size is a needless worry: a so-called “small” penis of say 3 inches limp can easily double in size in some men when erect; it’s just the way they’re… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Dutch: “At the outset of our relationship I basically laid out how it was going to be.” Yet she didn’t feel smothered ironically. Now she does. Why is that? Others can chime in, but I’d say work out regularly, talk more to others around her (open chicks), drop the sarcasm, join some program (MMA) that forces you to bond with other dudes. Use soft dread too. Small case in point, I used to keep my phone on vibrate so that, say, some ex may call me, she might get mad. Now I keep the ringer on. I check emails in… Read more »

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