The Red Pill Balance

Before you move on to reading today’s post, please take 14 minutes and listen to Niko Choski’s latest here Man:the being made of stone, it’ll be relevant in the second half of this post.

Niko is MGTOW, and from what I know is fairly highly regarded in that sphere. I did an interview with him back in August and since then have become a semi-regular listener of his youtube channel. We’ve occasionally bounced ideas off one another since the interview and I hold Niko in the highest respect for his intellectual approach and insights.

So it’s with that in mind that I’m going to use his latest offering here as a contrast to what I’m going into today.

Reader Divided Line stopped me in my writing tracks on another post with this comment from the last post thread. Not the least of which because I’d just finished listening to Niko’s audio here, but also because it was an interesting juxtaposition to what I’d planned to go into today. I’m going to quote Divided Line here and riff a bit as I go (emphasis mine):

@reloadedbeats

A lot of what you’ve said here echos my own thinking to such a degree that it’s as if you read my mind. I agree 100%.

What you’re talking about here, I think, is the inherent value of goodness or justice. I think Plato took up this question in the Republic and nailed it better than most.

In the beginning of the dialogue the question is “what is justice?” But it quickly transforms into “what is the value of justice?” In other words, if goodness wins us no reward, then what value does it have? Is it valuable in its own right? Would it have value even if it cost us something, or indeed cost us everything?

Glaucon puts the question like this (paraphrasing): “What if the perfectly just man is seen by everyone as perfectly unjust, while the perfectly unjust man is seen as perfectly just?” He then puts it on Socrates to effectively prove that, even in this scenario, justice would be worth it.

We could gender this question and simply ask “what if the perfectly good man is seen as perfectly unattractive to women, while the perfectly evil man is seen as perfectly attractive?”

Is goodness worth it even if it isn’t profitable sexually or socially? It’s the same question.

Why be a ‘good’ man when what we consider good by both personal and social measures isn’t rewarded (or only grudgingly rewarded), while what we consider ‘bad’ is what is enthusiastically rewarded with women’s genuine desire and intimacy? In other words, Hypergamy doesn’t care about what men consider good or bad.

It seems like this is the predicament red pill awareness puts us in when we have to consider the value of our formerly beta self. What makes the beta the beta is his weakness, of course, but it is simultaneously his civility. We’re not defective people for wanting or even needing the possibility love, empathy, truth, friendship, kindness, and – above all else – trust in our lives. It just makes us human. If we project our deeply rooted desires for these things and treat others the way we want to be treated, wouldn’t society be better off for it? And isn’t this what the supplicating, loyal beta does when latches on to a woman he believes to the “the One?”

No Quarter Given

In my post (and book chapter) Of Love and War I quote a reader who summed up this want for relief from men’s inherent Burden of Performance:

We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to

When I consider Niko’s perspective alongside this I begin to see a stark paradox; mens’ want for a relief or a respite from that performance burden tends to be their undoing. I wont get too deep into this, but one reason I see the MGTOW sphere being so seductive is the hopeful promise of that same relief. Simply give up. Refuse to play along and reject the burden altogether. Japan’s herbivorous men crisis is a graphic example of the long term effects of this.

However, this is the same mistake men make in their Blue Pill, Beta conditioning. They believe that if they meet the right girl, if they align correctly with that special ONE, then they too can give up and not worry about their performance burden – or relax and only make the base effort necessary to keep his ONE happy.

The Beta buys the advertising that his Blue Pill conditioning has presented to him for a lifetime. Find the right girl who accepts you independent of your performance, and you can let down your guard, be vulnerable, forget any notion of Red Pill truths because your girl is a special specimen who places no conditions on her love, empathy, intimate acceptance or genuine desire for you.

And this is also very seductive and inuring for the Beta who’s been conditioned to believe there can realistically be a respite from his burden.

That’s how it seemed to work in my own life. Looking back on it, I was so grateful to my ex, who was easily the most attractive girl I’d ever been with, that I would have taken a bullet for her. I didn’t want anybody else. I didn’t even think about other girls – the first time that had ever happened to me in a relationship. I can remember thinking that even if she gained weight, lost her looks, and got old, I’d still want her. I would have “loved” her forever. I was good and ready to cash in my chips, exit the SMV, and retire. I would have arranged my whole life around making her happy and would have felt lucky to have had the privilege.

At the time, all of that felt noble and brave, but looking back on it, it just seems pathetic and pathological, the result of my neediness. But the thing is, what if she had reciprocated it? Wouldn’t it have been a relationship worth having? Had she reciprocated it – if any woman was capable of reciprocating that – it wouldn’t have been Disney movie bullshit, but the real thing. We’re supposed to think such a thing is possible and that’s what keeps us playing along. The Red Pill is really about recognizing its impossibility, I think. There is no possible equity. To be sure, a woman can be loyal and dedicated to you, in theory, but she’ll only give that loyalty to the guy who needs it least. It’s like a cruel, cosmic joke.

Such as it is, that girl lied to me, ran for the hills the moment I showed weakness and needed her the most, and cheated on me. Big surprise, right? With a red pill awareness now I can see how predictable that result was, but at the time I was blindsided by it. I never saw it coming. I couldn’t understand how she could do such a thing when I’d invested so much in her, when I was so willing to give her all the things I’d always wanted most. I assumed she wanted the same things – men and women are the same, right? That’s what the egalitarians tell us. I couldn’t understand how those things could be so valueless to her that she would just throw it all away like that. She didn’t value them at all.

On occasion I’ve suggested that men watch the movie Blue Valentine. You can check out the plot summary on the IMDB link there, but you really need to watch the movie (on Netflix) to appreciate what I’m going to relate here. The main character suffers from the same romantic idealism and want for a perfected, mutually shared concept of love between himself and the single mother he eventually marries.

It follows along the same familiar theme of Alpha while single / Beta after marriage that most men experience in what they believe is their lot. More often than not the Alpha they believed their wives or LTR girlfriends perceived they were was really just a guy who’d do for their needs of whatever phase of maturity she found herself in.

By itself this would be enough for me to endorse the movie, but the story teaches a much more valuable lesson. What Dean (Ryan Gosling) represents is a man who idealistically buys the Blue Pill promise that men and women share a mutual love concept, independent of what their sexual strategies and innate dispositions prompt them to. Because of this misbelief Dean gives up on the burden of his performance. He drops his ambitions and relaxes with his ONE girl, contenting himself in mediocrity, low ambitions and his idealistic belief in a woman sharing and sustaining his romanticized Blue Pill love ideal – performancelessness.

He relaxes, lets his guard down and becomes the vulnerable man he was taught since birth that women would not only desire, but require for their false, performanceless notions of mutual intimacy. The men of this sphere who don’t find themselves divorced from their progressively bored wives are often the ones who trade their ambitions and passions for a life of mediocrity and routine,…so long as the security blanket of what they believe is a sustainable, passable semblance of that love (but not desire) exists in their wives or girlfriends.

Their burden of performance is sedated so long as their women are reasonably comfortable or sedate themselves. That false sense of contentment is only temporary and leads to their own ruin or decay.

No Quarter Expected

I’ve since watched something similar happen to a friend not once but twice. It’s textbook, standard shit. AWALT.

Cultivating these unrequited beta aspects of somebody’s character, if we did it on a mass scale, creates a society worth living in. It’s a civilized society where these things are most possible and it’s a truly worthwhile relationship where both parties regard each other this way and can full expect it to be reciprocated. It requires faith and trust, but we all know better. Our survival depends on knowing better, post sexual revolution. Women were never worthy of such trust and they’re entirely incapable of it. They were never capable of it. We were just supposed to think they were and cultivate the better aspects of our natures in order to be worthy of them.

The ugly truth of it is that women were never worthy of us.

Women’s sexuality doesn’t reward justice or goodness – if it did, reciprocity would be the norm and none of us would be confused about relational equity. Women reward not goodness, but strength. And strength is amoral, meaning it can be either just or unjust, good or bad. The guy with strength can either be the villain or the hero – it makes no difference to women. They can’t tell the difference and in truth don’t care anyway.

There is a set of the Red Pill that subscribe to what I’d call a ‘scorched earth‘ policy. It’s very difficult to reconcile the opportunistic basis of women’s Hypergamous natures with men’s hopeful, idealistic want for a love that’s independent from their performance burden. So the idea is again one of giving up. They say fuck it, women only respond to the most base selfishly individualistic, socio or psychopathic of men, so the personality they adopt is one that hammers his idealism flat and exaggerates his ‘Dark Triad‘ traits beyond all believability.

It’s almost a vengeful embrace of the most painful truths Red Pill awareness presents to us, and again I see why the scorched earth PUA attitude would seem attractive. Women do in fact observably and predictably reward assholes and excessively dominant Alpha men with genuine desire and sexual enthusiasm.

Agreeableness and humility in men has been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners.

The problem inherent in applying reciprocal solutions to gender relations is the belief that those relations are in any way improved by an equilibrium between both sexes interests. Solution: turn hard toward the asshole energy. Men understand the rules of engagement with women and they know Game well enough to capitalize on it so why not capitalize on that mastery of it?

The dangers of this are twofold. First, it lacks real sustainability and eventually becomes a more sexualized version of MGTOW. Secondly, “accidents” happen. MGTOWs will warn us that any interaction with a woman bears a risk of sexual harassment or false rape claims, but for the scorched earth guy a planned unplanned pregnancy on the part of a woman attempting to lock down her Alpha is far more likely to be his long term downfall. Emotional and provisioning liabilities for a child tends to pour cold water on the scorched earth guy.

It wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that women are philosophically, spiritually, and morally stunted. They have a limited capacity for adherence to higher ideals and this is why they don’t know or care what actual justice or goodness is. Like Schopenhauer said, they “mistake knowledge for its appearance.”

It took me a long time to be able to accept this. That is women’s true inferiority – and women are profoundly inferior. And I take no pleasure in recognizing that, as if I’m somehow touting the superiority of team men. It’s awful, in fact. Dealing with it is the ultimate burden of performance for us as individual men, but also as a society. At some point we’re simply going to have to confront women’s moral inferiority. If we look at our institutions, the very same that are crumbling now all around us, we can see that previous generations of men already figured this out. We just forgot what they knew.

So what’s the answer? Is justice valuable for its own sake? All of us would probably on some level want to be able to say yes and argue the case, but I don’t know if I can do so convincingly.

I’m with you on this, part of me thinks “Fuck this. It can’t be like this.” But it is. I wish I had the answer.

Niko attempts to redress the assumption that men feel some necessity to be someone they really aren’t. In Vulnerability I go into how the Feminine Imperative is only too willing to exploit this self-doubt by labeling men as existential posers and their conventional masculinity is a ‘mask’ – a false charade – they put on to hide the real vulnerability that lies beneath.

Unfortunately many men accept this as gospel. It’s part of their Blue Pill upbringing and is an essential aspect of their feminine ‘sensitivity training’ and gender loathing conditioning. When masculinity is only ever a mask men wear the only thing real about them is what real women tell them it should be.

What we don’t consider is the legitimacy of our need for strength, independence, stoicism, and yes, emotional restraint. That need to be bulwark against women’s emotionality, that need to wear psychological armor against the Red Pill realities of women’s visceral natures is legitimate and necessary. If a man’s vulnerability is ever it’s because his display of it is so uncharacteristic of his normal impenetrability. The woman’s demeanor, and the narrator’s voice, in the last post’s Campbell’s soup commercial is an example of the weak, vulnerability women expect from lesser child-men – and a commensurate expectation of him to just get that he needs to be strong.

That’s the inconsistency in women’s Hypergamous nature and the narrative of the Feminine Imperative’s messaging. Be sweet, open, vulnerable; it’s OK to cry, ask for help, be sick and weakened, we’re all equal and empathetic – but, Man Up, “what, you need your mommy?”, assert yourself, the asshole is sexier than you, where’s your self-discipline? – but, your masculine identity is a mask you wear to hide the real you,……

I play many roles in the male life I lead today, and I’ve played many others in my past. I’m Rollo Tomassi in the manosphere, I’m a father to my daughter, a husband and lover to my wife, a brilliant artist and pragmatic builder of brands in my job, an adventure seeker when I’m on my snowmobile and a quiet contemplator of life and God when I’m fishing. All of those roles and more are as legitimate as I choose to make them. Do I have moments of uncertainty? Do I waiver in my resolve sometimes? Of course, but I don’t let that define me because I know there is no real strength in relating that.

The Red Pill Balance

Red Pill awareness is both a blessing and a curse. The trick is balancing your Red Pill expectations with your previous Blue Pill idealism. It’s not a sin for you to want for an idealistic reality – that’s what sets us apart from women’s opportunism. You do yourself no favors in killing you idealistic, creative sense of wonderment of what could be. The trick is acknowledging that aspect of your male self.

KFG had a comment to this point:

If men did not hold heroism as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.
If women did not hold survival as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.

This was precisely the dynamic I was referring to when I wrote Idealism.

Men’s idealism and idealistic concepts of love are the natural counterbalance to women’s pragmatic, Hypergamously rooted opportunism and opportunistic concepts of love and vice versa. Those differing concepts can be applied very unjustly and very cruelly, or very judiciously and honorably, but they are the reality of our existence.

Red Pill awareness isn’t just about understanding women’s innate natures and behaviors, it’s also understanding your own male nature and learning how it fits in to that new awareness and living in a new paradigm. Is something like justice valuable for its own sake? I’d say so, but that concept of justice must be tempered (or enforced) in a Red Pill understanding of what to expect from women and men. Red Pill awareness doesn’t mean we should abandon our idealism or higher order aspirations, and it certainly doesn’t mean we should just accept our lot in women’s social frame because of it. It does mean we need to balance that idealism in as pragmatic a way with the realities of what the Red Pill shows us.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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cheupez
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cheupez
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I dont think MGTOW means no women. But anger against “narcistic” pussy hunters has a lot to do with ego investment. When one realises too late that life has already had him and it is hard for him to admit it, all he can do is to rationalize his experience is to call it altruism or some other sweet sounding word that can apeace his sense of loss. But it is not an excuse for lashing out at those who wise up and start cutting corners earlier. Any young man who has made sense of the TRM and is intent… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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For the OCDs who cant stand it;

“narcisstic” “appease”

Apologies.

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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Hah, this is awesome. kfg- RD400? Damn, I love that old styling. I have a thing for cafe racers that I’ve never been able to act on. Had a tiny XR50 dirtbike for a while, was never more daring than on that devil lol. If it pins you its just like wrestling your 5yo nephew. Except with a fiery hot exhaust. Sun- I hadn’t seen that Brutale! Badass. Like a Ducati Monster with more teeth. A good thing to die on For the record, the last bike I rode was a Ducati Desmoquattro 748, and I rode it like a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@adbg

Thanks for the props! The ol’ oneitis is a bugger. Mine def has core ego issues – not to the point of personality disorder, but enough that absolutely wrecking me instead of just letting me go makes sense to her.

The silver lining is that I’m developing crazy inner game as a matter of mere survival lol. Sharing a workplace with her is brutal but my job is awesome enough that I’m willing to conquer the circumstance to keep it.

IAS
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@talprofs: I think men are capable of “loving” more than one woman, and I think women can do that as well (recall also that according to Red Pill, women love differently from men). That may still have been a rationalization (or even outright lie) from the woman in question.

@kfg: laughed at your description of imagining the deadline when you were trapped under the bike.

@Forge: oneitis at your work seems quite unfortunate.

Sun Wukong
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@kfg

Swore I’d never ride a bike I couldn’t lift again and you can’t register an Aprilia 125 in my state.

This is technically considered a scooter and most states will register it that way, but it’s basically a cool looking 125cc motorcycle with a shifter and all. Maybe that would work? There’s 160cc bore kits with exhaust that’ll put it around 16-17hp. Really light and comfy when I tried one, just don’t expect highway speeds.

Artisanal Toad
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As requested, I tried to keep this shorter, but its difficult to flesh out a subject without going into detail. Uncomfortable thoughts on having a big dick. If a guy wants a big dick it’s no different from wanting a muscular body: all he has to do is buy the penis enhancement (PE) devices and put in the time using them, because they really work. Most women claim 7.5 to 8 inches is the ideal length (girth needs to be proportionate) and that’s very doable in 2 years time for the average guy who starts off with a 5.5 to… Read more »

Pinelero
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Great chart explain does size matters issue.

Middle school guys with game… with the internet and curiosity, it has to be so. As a dad this is one reason I have always told my girls that I want to vet their boyfriends. Being more redpill aware I vetting for an adequate alpha/beta mix will also be part of the screening process.

bob bitchin
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bob bitchin
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^^ Source for.this penis size study. n=?, age group, location, etc. In your post you state that women will convince.themselves that 6.25″=7″. How do we know that didnt happen in the ‘study’ you cited (again, source?). In other words.I dont.really believe that this is actual.science. First hand, a women I knew had a boyfriend with an 8″ c$ck. She said it.hurt:; too big. They broke up. I did bang her after. She was on the loose side. Not.tight at all. Still gave her a vaginal multi-orgasm. I was impressed by that. She told me aftwards it was a first for.her.… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Toad – Makes perfect sense. I’m the average guy you describe (slightly girthier) and such straight talk is essential for men these days. Girls will talk about how size matters and overtly express their preference for a guy with a big dick. My preference for petite women has a lot to do with this, as I can just about “hit it” with a petite woman. I broke up with an HB9 at one point because she had a cavernous pussy that I just couldn’t fill up and I felt so inadequate. But here’s the thing. I researched this at one… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
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I have absolutely no data and relatively little experience, but my concern would be too big as opposed to too small. I have a smaller-than-average package, but my Wife has complained multiple times of hitting cervix in certain positions. To the point of “jump away and wincing on the other side of the bed.” When I was younger I remember having a younger gf measuring and seeing a higher than average number (obviously I saw the number too), but for whatever reason something in the college years took away length. TBH, probably too vigorous dates with Rosie, which can wreck… Read more »

ChocDoc
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I have not commented a longer time now, because i was busy to read the books of you Rollo and think about it and understand all the aspects, which you are describing so wonderful. First i want to wish you a happy new year, Rollo. Furthermore i would like to thank you that you are sharing this profound knowledge with us…for free !!! Thank you, Buddy. Idealism is really important for a man, because i believe that idealism is the key for our aspirations, for our drive to build and to establish. That is the reason why we are the… Read more »

agent p
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@scribllerg I cosign your like of petite women, even at a visual level my dick about to enter a visually small pussy simply makes me feel better about myself. Then once it’s in there, good lord it feels incredible being in a small tight one rather than launching hotdogs down the damp hallway. For that reason I never understood the fascination with “big butts”. I hate that Kardashian kind of shit, would far rather have a well proportioned little hottie with a tight bum who is small enough to be thrown around the bed and toyed with. Careful though, @rollo… Read more »

IAS
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I will add a few of my thoughts on the penis size issue, despite my N=1. Comments from the highly experienced alphas are welcomed. I knew my length but not my girth, so I went to measure it. Apparently I’m just slightly above average on both. I’ve hit the cervix on my wife a few times when getting carried away in the moment. She is not very tall, I don’t know if their length tends to be proportional though. What I do know and may be relevant is that their length also varies with arousal, so this is probably very… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Lol where did THIS topic come from? I leave for the night and come back to a board decorated with cock talk. Guess I’m a five percenter though so I ain’t mad. Neither was any girl I was with. I suspect a lot of that is psychological rather than physical though. Girls seem to really love the thought that the guy they’re with is big. It’s a confirmation to them of your superiority, in a very unfakable way. Like height. I’m average height and am kinda trim, and like my clothes close-cut generally. So in America I usually go for… Read more »

ChocDoc
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Incredible….from Idealism to cock size….LOOOOOL Anyway my precious brothers in spirit. All these cocksize talkings are not more than another “Backdoor” attack to your frame. Hold your frame and the female gate of hapiness will be ready and wet for you. Some have more and some have less…so what??? Do you wanna buy now pills, enhancement boxes or even do surgeries?? LOL…or do you prefer to cry over it and blame god / nature for it?? It’s the same with the shorter guys out there. You can’t change that..so instead whining about it, you better sharpen your other weapons that… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“My old GF was always pissed about that; seeing that S on the tag . . .”

Nowadays “S” is actually “NF,” Not Fat.

ChocDoc
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Yes, it’s true. Men have the burden of performance. We have to earn it every fucking day. We have to be better We have to earn more We have to look better We have to be stronger We need to have Game We need to have Frame We have to be dominant -> see Frame It needs to be earned every day. Once you stop, you are no longer a man. At least that is what women will say about you then. The big question now is; whats the price for that performance? IMO the answer is not to have… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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Been thinking about balance.
http://www.brainybetty.com/2007Motivation/Khalil%20Gibran%20-%20The%20Madman.pdf
What a wonderful world.

stuffinbox
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A mans size is not as important as his attitude.I am 5’10 220lbs and solid and I have been intimidated by men 5’7 160lbs.That 5’7 man could bench 380 more than 2 times his weight.I learned to streetfight from a skinny little chicano guy he must have put me on my ass 100 times dude had some good tricks. Had an assistant wrestling coach maybe 130 soaking wet and he could tie any man in knots the disgusting part was he couldn’t pronounce his R’s I hate losing to a man that talks like a three yo. It is kind… Read more »

Striver
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Striver
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Chicks come in different sizes too. Had one where her walls would get so gorged out I couldn’t fit inside once she got going.

Forge the Sky
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@Stuffinbox

Do you make these jokes up? I thought the one about Emily on her honeymoon was great.

stuffinbox
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@Forge

No I have a memory for stupid shit,but can’t remember a chicks name for 5 minutes.That realy pisses em off like the third time I ask.

stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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@All You know nobody ends up in the manosphere by accident.We are all experiencing things that just don’t seem right,and when I read someone ballsy like Rollo there is a ring of truth to what he is saying.I have run everything through the bullshit sifter and it came up empty. I don’t need to get mad about the way things are I have to except them and move on doing the next right thing.A change of style for me is learning and working game while still holding my frame.These things I rarely even considered for the last 30yrs.Just to busy… Read more »

anon
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anon
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Wymmyn bitch. Men Fix.

https://www.pegym.com/forums/

kobayashii1681
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Any of the lads seen this:

https://www.rt.com/news/328472-male-contraception-sperm-switch/

About that obsolescence….

scribblerg
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@Stuffin – While I agree with what you are saying in some ways, in the sense that the frame and dynamics and psychology, I think you also have to admit that size matters. Go ask 5 women who are sexually active, under 30 and see what they say. Every single one I’ve asked gives answers identical to what that survey showed. Over 8 inches is too big, 7-8 is perfect, under 5-6 is pathetic. The mechanics matter. Not obsessed with this, I just think its something I’ve rarely heard men discuss openly and honestly – while women will go on… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy
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the derivatives are coming
http://kittenholiday.com/red-pill-dating-advice-for-women/

stuffinbox
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@scrib Not happening at my age and looks I would get 86ed forever for asking that in a public setting. We picked up some hookers on colfax one time got a split room with two beds.Still got nicknames for these girls I could here coco in the next room telling my buddy you got a funky shaped lil banana dick. And then i could here her get of on it to. so yeah it matters but how you use it matters more. If you never saw the serial numbers on a rubber you never rolled it out far enough. A… Read more »

scribblerg
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@WaterCannon – Yep, as I surmised from my interaction with Kitty. She hasn’t a freaking clue. According to her, we are all just men who are bitter after being screwed over by women, lol. Typical. Still, she can be a useful ally and has potential if she learns more. Hope she comes back, she’s fun and civil. It is funny though, she’s parlayed being hot and edgy into a big blog presence with awards from Indie Chicks and others. She’s got a decent sized twitter following and as far as I can tell, she’s just a bit non-traditional and a… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@ scribblerg

Why ask a woman about anything they want? It’s like saying i don’t get it if she thinks i’m usefull she will tell me what she wants for.
Anyhow women you give em an inch they want the whole thing.

Did see kitty mentioned MGTOW didn’t see any mention of TRM did anybody?

scribblerg
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@Stuffin – You have to have some perspective for crying out loud. Women can tell which kind of dicks they like better, I mean, let’s be real. Sure, notwithstanding all other considerations, size matters. It’s funny how some men just can’t stand hearing that.

stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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Get real. how many women do you know that can actualy read a tape measure?

Forge the Sky
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We’re veering pretty close to rehashing the ‘looks matter’ debate here. Forgive me the hubris, but I think the most balanced take on these thing we’ve had here is when YaReally goes off on someone for advocating the utility of looks, and then I interpret his comments in context. My argument has always been that looks matter – both in how women view you initially (a good-looking man has warmer opens) and in how intense she feels for you when she sees you later on (it’s easier to get her to blush, lock her gaze on you, lock eyes with… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“Get real. how many women do you know that can actualy read a tape measure?” Don’t need one if you got nerve endings in da box. There’s a visual/psychological component with dick size that doesn’t have an analog in men’s attraction to women. A girl likes thinking she has a big dick in her. Past that, I assume the material circumstance isn’t too dissimilar between the genders – how much do you hear a guy talking about how a tight pussy is important, and such things? That’s probably about how important dick size is to the mechanics of the circumstance.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Hey @Sun Wukong

Your post got me looking at bikes. Not sure now if I’d prefer the Brutale or the Duc Monster 821 Dark.

You? Why not just go straight supervillain.

stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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Suffice it to say size doesn’t matter to me,aside from couldn’t get it in or to loose and everything in between. had these experiences with different women and also the same woman in LTR.Been out of game for so long that I haven’t a clue about it.Just relearning as I can’t get by on brute strength forever.
Over out

Water Cannon Boy
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Someone’s talking bikes so I had to go back.
Triumph is in good standing. Mv isn’t going to be a threat.
The FZ 09 might be better than both the Ducati 821 and Mv 800.
Even with it’s soft suspension.

Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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Yollo "Detritus" Comanche
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This comment section is kicking so much ass right now.

Sun Wukong
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@WCB The 1050cc platform has had virtually zero changes since 2005, aside from having 3 bikes that carried it cancelled and not really replaced. All that’s left running on an 11 year old engine is the Speed Triple, and the MV 800 weighs less with 10 more horsepower. Don’t get me wrong they make some good bikes (the Rocket III in particular is insane, and I feel the 1050 Sprint ST is their most overlooked bike in their lineup), but the Italians are currently beating them at their own game in the naked sport market. @Forge I can’t bring myself… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
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Triumph may be targeting a different buyer than outright performance battles.
$18,000-$20,000 vs $13,000, the Triumph will do alright in sales if you compare the two.
KTM super duke might even outsell the Brutale.

Water Cannon Boy
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But there’s hardly any bike I don’t like, so it’s all about the ride.
I’m considering the FZ 07 or FZ 09 myself.

Sun Wukong
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@WCB

The 800RR starts around 15.5k, the Speed Triple R around 14.5k. Only a grand difference. They’re in the same price class. wink

Sun Wukong
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I really wish I’d liked the ride more on the old Honda 919, because their Candy Red version is gorgeous.

http://www.cb919.hondagl.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/2006-Honda-919.jpg

Maybe I’ll get one eventually as a project toy. I’ve always loved the looks of them.

keyser Soze
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http://therationalmale.com/?s=size+matter+&submit=Search

I always wonder if some people read Rollo’s posts.

keyser Soze
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I think we need Yareally to come here and tell us women don’t want big dicks. (in fields video about women hating big dicks).

Water Cannon Boy
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I did a quick look. some of the prices may have been for the bigger Brutale. MV website has it at 11,600 english pounds. Exchange rate last I remember was about 1.5 I believe. I love the bike, but just don’t feel it’s much of a threat to Triumph considering everything like price, how it is to ride daily, not just track numbers. Head to head comparisons in magazine, the Brutale may get picked over the Triumph, but regular costumer sales, don’t think it will. Honda’s 919 was a sweet bike. Very well put together. Along the lines of a… Read more »

YaReally
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“I think we need Yareally to come here and tell us women don’t want big dicks.”

Happy to oblige. Post in mod. Happy New Year everyone lol

IAS
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@keyser soze: I haven’t read all his posts, but I read many, including all of the Best ofs. That was one of them (it is in the “Best of” Year two).

YaReally already had a comment in there as well:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/17/size-matters/#comment-10012
(well, more than one but that was the main one)

ChocDoc
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@ IAS

Thank you for that Link.

Yes, Yareally should Really Comment to the PE-Buyer.

talprofs
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@IAS Re: January 10th, 2016 at 3:33 am Thanks for the brief follow-up — and I accept that men can ‘love’ more than one woman. I also think that, in my scenario, the woman in question, does genuinely believe or *rationialise* that she loves her LOTR, while also … er…. loving me as well; but I am tending towards the ‘outright lie’ where I am concerned. My prediction for her is that, even though she has gained the ‘provisioning’ BB commitment she sought from her LOTR by way of a promise of an apartment in which they both live and… Read more »

IAS
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@talprofs: If the woman is the only reason you would quit that club, you should probably stay, unless you realize you can’t avoid getting Oneitis for her. If she wants, she can leave.

If you want to drive her away from you romantically, I’ve read others suggesting to act very blue pill (on purpose) with her.

Regarding the more general morality thing, sexual strategies are amoral. I myself wouldn’t intentionally go for a woman that is in an LTR, but we discussed this fairly recently with Andy. Look around this post comment sections
http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/15/dont-hate-the-beta/comment-page-6/#comment-128354

http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/15/dont-hate-the-beta/comment-page-7/#comment-128746

stuffinbox
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@talprofs
Sounds like a tough day in class but yeah stick it out. You don’t want to look back with more regret. and if you keep boning the wrong women you will need that black belt.

Andy
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“I just think its something I’ve rarely heard men discuss openly and honestly – while women will go on and on and on about it if you ask them. Try asking a group of women in a bar about it, see what happens.”

@Scribblerg

Because as we all know we should listen to what women say…

scribblerg
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@Andy – No, of course, we should trust what men have to say about women’s preference for cock size…Lol. Of course their “self-reports” need to be evaluated carefully – as I said, there are many considerations. But at the end of the day, women like a bigger than average cock.

As Keyser pointed out, Rollo has weighed in on this as well. http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/17/size-matters/

@RedPillLadyLurkers – Any of you who wish to go on the record about dick size would be greatly appreciated…

scribblerg
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I actually got an erection when I found this bike. I had a Suzuki GS1000 when I was younger and it was just such a great bike, a classic “super bike”. The Kawasaki ZRX 1100 (became the 1200, don’t think they are making anymore). http://www.cyclecolor.com/Photo%20MC/Kawasaki%20photo%203%2021%2006/IMAGES/Kawasaki%20ZRX%201100%201999%20Pearl%20Lime%20Green_jpg.jpg The colors of this one replicate the Eddie Lawson Kawasaki GPZ1100s he won with in the early ’80s. The engine on this bike was detuned ZX1100, so you got better low end torque. You ride upright and I actually tricked out one of the three of them I owned for touring with a great Givi… Read more »

scribblerg
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Fuck, David Bowie died. Another man I always had tremendous respect for. I listen to music while I work and am listening to him all day today, he has a tremendous catalog. One of his public moments I liked best was when he was being interviewed by the ever-so-tedious, pretentious, no-talent Charlie Rose. Here’ s a clip. Notice how Bowie can’t even be bothered to look Rose in the eye.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8CNhakfB7c&w=560&h=315%5D

HIs comments on artistic expression also resonated deeply with me.

rugby11
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rugby11
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@scibblerg

Kitten Holiday
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Dick Size: Matters as much as you let it. Women love to feel “full” so a larger penis will “fill” us better, more of the time. However, a larger penis (I’d say 6.5 and up) can hurt at times by hitting the cervix. But a 5 inch dick can also hit the cervix and hurt and it can also fill a woman. Our vaginas change shape and responsiveness during our cycles. For instance when we are nearing ovulation, our cervix softens and becomes mushy like the consistency of our cheeks. After ovulation, the cervix shuts down the door to the… Read more »

Andy
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“But at the end of the day, women like a bigger than average cock.”

They like bigger than average orgasms.

scribblerg
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For the record, I’m not dissatisfied with my dick. Not an issue for me. But I am interested in reality. I also cosign that technique and overall eroticism matter most in all sexual matters. That said, too many women claim to like a bigger dick (not huge) that I can’t avoid considering how dick size factors in. @Kitty – Great comment, keep ’em coming. @Andy – The best orgasms a woman seems to have from my experiences (which are fucking vast, fyi) are the ones that come from fucking. I can only do this with some women. I find mechanically… Read more »

scribblerg
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Re: Bowie’s death. Kanye West just claimed Bowie was an inspiration – fuck, Bowie must already be rolling in his grave. Here’s a reminder of what a no-talent fraud Kanye is…
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZPYFYrJNaQ&w=560&h=315%5D

Andy
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“But hey, you love to take shots at me all the time for some reason”

lol, I take shots at everybody. You aren’t special.

“The best orgasms a woman seems to have from my experiences (which are fucking vast, fyi) are the ones that come from fucking.”

You’ve had sex with 100+ women, and this is what you contribute? lol.

newlyaloof
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@Scribble, you ever read that link YaReally had on his site for Sex God Method? Fantastic eye opener.

scribblerg
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I was so resistant to Tyler at RSD initially. I thought it was because I saw him as a douche but in fact, it was because he was so confronting to all my ego investments. He just did a new motivational video and it’s truly genius for any Red Pill man who finds this journey a battle. Andy, this doesn’t apply to you because you have it all sorted…And of course MGTOWs can scroll by too because they have surrendered and the very idea that they should be struggling and striving is offensive for them…For the rest of us fighting… Read more »

IAS
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Still on vaginas, apparently most of the nerve endings are near the entrance.

Andy, I’m fairly certain Scribblerg meant PIV.

About Sex God Method, isn’t the book focused mostly on psychological aspects rather than specific techniques?

Kitten Holiday
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@Scribblerg

“@WaterCannon – Yep, as I surmised from my interaction with Kitty. She hasn’t a freaking clue”

@RedPillLadyLurkers – Any of you who wish to go on the record about dick size would be greatly appreciated…

“@Kitty – Great comment, keep ’em coming.”

Maybe, based on further interactions, you will change your mind about me.

@KittenHoliday

Andy
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“Maybe, based on further interactions, you will change your mind about me.”

Bwhahahahaha.

scribblerg
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@Andy – Indeed, as I concluded long ago you are have an anti-social personality combined with a deep narcissistic streak. In other words, you’re a bit of a cunt. Wearing it like a badge of honor doesn’t make it any better…

scribblerg
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@Kitty – Read more carefully and you won’t make the mistakes you are making here. 1. I suggested in our initial exchange that you go to the top of this page and read the best of year 1 and 2 to get up to speed on what we are actually discussing here. It was at this point that you disappeared. 2. The comment you cited was about your actual knowledge of the Red Pill, which after reading this post http://kittenholiday.com/red-pill-dating-advice-for-women/ is clearly sorely lacking. In fact, in this post, you state several times that you are just learning about the… Read more »

Dutchman
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@Rollo

Awesome

keyser Soze
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I have an unshakable conviction of biology. Biology, physiology, made us unequal. No amount of game can change a man’s dick size or a man’s height. An ugly fat feminist can spend all her life fighting(HB9s) for a share of the alpha tingle , but she can’t change biology. She can never be EQUAL to a HB 9. Is short man Equal to a tall man? NO. Is a man with small dick Equal to a man with big dick? NO. Ask any short man if he was Re called to be re manufactured, he would definitely want to be… Read more »

Dutchman
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Dutchman
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You guys are going to trigger CaveClown lol.

IAS
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@Rollo: I recently read the book “Practical Female Psychology”, which is rather damning on Low Self Esteem women, and wonder if you have specific advice for handling a LSE “good girl”/low N archetype as LTR / wife

Most of the existing RP praxeology on LSE seems to be about the “bad girl”/high N archetype.

I looked through your archive and found out:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/28/rational-male-qa/
http://therationalmale.com/2015/06/03/you-never-forget-your-first/
where you address questions (the second one was a question from CaveClown) on why some women consolidate on a man, often while still with a low N count. Your reply includes LSE.

kfg
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@Rollo: That’s a weird lookin’ motorcycle ya got there.

re: “10. They’re jealous of tall guys”

Tall guys have overtly expressed jealousy over my ability to fit into vintage, European sports cars. Thus I suspect their putting down such cars and favoring American muscle cars is just an expression of sour grapes.

Alpha tall man Dan Gurney took a different approach to the European sports car size issue; he pounded on them to make them fit:

comment image

Dutchman
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Follow up from the post I made last week about the fight with my wife. At one point this weekend when we were trying to something that was frustrating the FUCK out of both of us, I sarcastically told her “great job on buying (the frustrating thing)” and she got angry with me. I was about to leave when I said it, and maybe an hour after I got home, I started talking to her about something else in the living room. After a minute of unrelated conversation, she said Her: I don’t like that you insulted me earlier. I… Read more »

redlight
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@scribblerg

fixed:

I suggested in our initial exchange that you go to the top of this page and read the best of year 1 and 2 to get up to speed on what we are actually discussing here. It was at this point that you behaved as expected

newlyaloof
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@Dutchman change to this: “something that was frustrating the FUCK out of both of us, I got behind her and started dry humping her saying, NEVER, EVER get something this frustrating again!” That would have been a better way to handle the stress, but you chose a bitchy passive aggressive way, just like a woman would. Too much talking in general with you I believe. Your wife can’t bitch if your lips or cock are on her lips. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the next time your wife tries to “talk” about something bothering her, just grab her… Read more »

keyser Soze
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@kfg,
It’s not a big problem to make a larger seat for the European alpha tall driver, but for a short man’s lap to be widened to be able to seat a taller girlfriend is impossible.

Dutchman
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@newly,

I’ll do it. Pretty sure I won’t get a favorable response AT ALL but fuck it.

kfg
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@Dutchman: ” I sarcastically told her “great job on buying (the frustrating thing)” . . .” Just as you say “Mistakes were made,” instead of “I’m sorry,” next time consider taking a deep breath, looking her straight in the eye, and saying, in a deep and measured voice, “Buying this was a mistake.” There’s a pretty good chance that she will immediately respond with, “I’m sorry.” @Keyser Soze: “It’s not a big problem to make a larger seat for the European alpha tall driver . . .” You are obviously unacquainted with the Triumph GT6. A) It’s so cramped inside… Read more »

Dutchman
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@Rollo

I hear you. It was actually a struggle for me not to say “I’m sorry” after that shit. My stupid oneitis brain was yelling at me like “Ok this is the part where you apologize.”

Anonymous Reader
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MGTOW thoughts. First, MGTOW is probably an all but inevitable stage in unplugging / taking the Red Pill / “putting on the glasses”. It’s part of the anger stage. Some men may cruise right by it, most men will spend some time in it, some men get stuck in anger. Second, there’s a life-phase or age difference in MGTOW. A frustrated 20-something Omega who had Disney romance crap jammed down his throat won’t react to Red Pill truth the same way as a 40+ year old man who’s just been frivorced. The 20-something overweight virgin has more options than the… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Dutch, my marriage is on the ropes, but a major contributor to that was my ideal of respect and not getting it from my wife. My ego would get all butthurt about it and I’d go about making things worse. The last month has been a great turnaround for me thanks to this site and the comment section. NOTHING will alter my frame and get me butthurt any longer. Just the other day, my wife failed to say hi to me upon entering the house. When she went to put something in the frig, I smacked her ass real hard.… Read more »

Kitten Holiday
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I won’t comment with my opinion because apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do, but will just say that I would like to shake some sense into Dutchman. I hope you all do it for me. smile Have a great day.

Andy
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“I’ll do it. Pretty sure I won’t get a favorable response AT ALL but fuck it.”

lol.

The best outcome would have come from not losing your cool in the first place. Or if she was frustrated calmly tell her that you got this, she can go do something else… Gotta maintain composure. I think you get that though.

Dutchman
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“I’d get all butthurt, yell, and keep up the conflict by responding to anything she said to me an a passive aggressive way. ” Sadly, this is what I do. “No wife can keep up a bitch fest if you, say, look at her, start doing the Flash Dance run-in-place dance right in front of her with a grin. Stupid shit like that. I just treat any of her gripes like one of my kids complaining about the other kid. Like I said, the last month has been great. My wife is even initiating sex without me asking.” Good shit.… Read more »

kfg
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@Kitten with a Whip: ” . . . apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do . . .”

And a good 10 times more hours thinking really hard about what you have read.

Dutchman
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@Andy

“The best outcome would have come from not losing your cool in the first place. Or if she was frustrated calmly tell her that you got this, she can go do something else… Gotta maintain composure. I think you get that though.”

Yeah, I get the composure thing. I didn’t realize until the other day how bad I was at losing my composure.

newlyaloof
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@Dutchman “I didn’t realize until the other day how bad I was at losing my composure”

It’s not so much “losing” your own composure as it it allowing others to own it. Own your composure! Be the oak! Don’t let traffic, job, debt, wife, kid toy instructions own your composure. I chose to own mine 100% and life is much better this way.

Anonymous Reader
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keyser Soze
10. They’re jealous of tall guys

My ex, who was on the shorter side, once said something like, “I’m sure you’ll leave me for a tall dude.” Why so insecure though? He also lost his shit on me when I spoke to a tall guy at his work. That was the only time he ever threw a fit of jealousy and it happened to be with a tall guy.

So your ex is a man, keyser? Huh.

IAS
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@Dutchman: there is a very good book which I think will help you not get angry and frustrated at your wife’s passive aggression:
http://www.amazon.com/When-Say-No-Feel-Guilty/dp/0553263900

After Rollo’s writings, it was probably the most helpful knowledge I learned since I started with the Red Pill.

Dutchman
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@IAS

Sweet, I’ll check it out.

Anonymous Reader
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Dutch My stupid oneitis brain was yelling at me like “Ok this is the part where you apologize.” Excellent, the first step to solving a problem is proper definition. Blue-pill oneitis brain says to you “Ohhh, noes, I have offended Herself and she might leave!”. Cultivate the abundance mentality in LTR/s and marriage, develop the ZFG mindset. Rollo’s right on the bullseye when he points out that your wife knows you need her more than she needs you. Fix your mindset and other aspects of her attitude will fall in line, sooner or later. Heck, ZFG works on all women,… Read more »

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Kitten Holiday I won’t comment with my opinion because apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do, Yes, dearie, you do have a reading assignment. Now, get to it. We don’t expect you to Just Get It (that’s man’s work) but you do need to deepen your understanding of how wrong feminism is. Not just 3rd wave, either. Freebie for you: 2nd wave feminism is based on the assumption that men and women are the same, except women can have babies. It’s a total blank-slate idea, and yeah that’s where Title IX came from. The assumption that women… Read more »

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kfg
@Kitten with a Whip:

LOL. She doesn’t look all that much like Anne Margaret, though.

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