The Red Pill Balance

Before you move on to reading today’s post, please take 14 minutes and listen to Niko Choski’s latest here Man:the being made of stone, it’ll be relevant in the second half of this post.

Niko is MGTOW, and from what I know is fairly highly regarded in that sphere. I did an interview with him back in August and since then have become a semi-regular listener of his youtube channel. We’ve occasionally bounced ideas off one another since the interview and I hold Niko in the highest respect for his intellectual approach and insights.

So it’s with that in mind that I’m going to use his latest offering here as a contrast to what I’m going into today.

Reader Divided Line stopped me in my writing tracks on another post with this comment from the last post thread. Not the least of which because I’d just finished listening to Niko’s audio here, but also because it was an interesting juxtaposition to what I’d planned to go into today. I’m going to quote Divided Line here and riff a bit as I go (emphasis mine):

@reloadedbeats

A lot of what you’ve said here echos my own thinking to such a degree that it’s as if you read my mind. I agree 100%.

What you’re talking about here, I think, is the inherent value of goodness or justice. I think Plato took up this question in the Republic and nailed it better than most.

In the beginning of the dialogue the question is “what is justice?” But it quickly transforms into “what is the value of justice?” In other words, if goodness wins us no reward, then what value does it have? Is it valuable in its own right? Would it have value even if it cost us something, or indeed cost us everything?

Glaucon puts the question like this (paraphrasing): “What if the perfectly just man is seen by everyone as perfectly unjust, while the perfectly unjust man is seen as perfectly just?” He then puts it on Socrates to effectively prove that, even in this scenario, justice would be worth it.

We could gender this question and simply ask “what if the perfectly good man is seen as perfectly unattractive to women, while the perfectly evil man is seen as perfectly attractive?”

Is goodness worth it even if it isn’t profitable sexually or socially? It’s the same question.

Why be a ‘good’ man when what we consider good by both personal and social measures isn’t rewarded (or only grudgingly rewarded), while what we consider ‘bad’ is what is enthusiastically rewarded with women’s genuine desire and intimacy? In other words, Hypergamy doesn’t care about what men consider good or bad.

It seems like this is the predicament red pill awareness puts us in when we have to consider the value of our formerly beta self. What makes the beta the beta is his weakness, of course, but it is simultaneously his civility. We’re not defective people for wanting or even needing the possibility love, empathy, truth, friendship, kindness, and – above all else – trust in our lives. It just makes us human. If we project our deeply rooted desires for these things and treat others the way we want to be treated, wouldn’t society be better off for it? And isn’t this what the supplicating, loyal beta does when latches on to a woman he believes to the “the One?”

No Quarter Given

In my post (and book chapter) Of Love and War I quote a reader who summed up this want for relief from men’s inherent Burden of Performance:

We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to

When I consider Niko’s perspective alongside this I begin to see a stark paradox; mens’ want for a relief or a respite from that performance burden tends to be their undoing. I wont get too deep into this, but one reason I see the MGTOW sphere being so seductive is the hopeful promise of that same relief. Simply give up. Refuse to play along and reject the burden altogether. Japan’s herbivorous men crisis is a graphic example of the long term effects of this.

However, this is the same mistake men make in their Blue Pill, Beta conditioning. They believe that if they meet the right girl, if they align correctly with that special ONE, then they too can give up and not worry about their performance burden – or relax and only make the base effort necessary to keep his ONE happy.

The Beta buys the advertising that his Blue Pill conditioning has presented to him for a lifetime. Find the right girl who accepts you independent of your performance, and you can let down your guard, be vulnerable, forget any notion of Red Pill truths because your girl is a special specimen who places no conditions on her love, empathy, intimate acceptance or genuine desire for you.

And this is also very seductive and inuring for the Beta who’s been conditioned to believe there can realistically be a respite from his burden.

That’s how it seemed to work in my own life. Looking back on it, I was so grateful to my ex, who was easily the most attractive girl I’d ever been with, that I would have taken a bullet for her. I didn’t want anybody else. I didn’t even think about other girls – the first time that had ever happened to me in a relationship. I can remember thinking that even if she gained weight, lost her looks, and got old, I’d still want her. I would have “loved” her forever. I was good and ready to cash in my chips, exit the SMV, and retire. I would have arranged my whole life around making her happy and would have felt lucky to have had the privilege.

At the time, all of that felt noble and brave, but looking back on it, it just seems pathetic and pathological, the result of my neediness. But the thing is, what if she had reciprocated it? Wouldn’t it have been a relationship worth having? Had she reciprocated it – if any woman was capable of reciprocating that – it wouldn’t have been Disney movie bullshit, but the real thing. We’re supposed to think such a thing is possible and that’s what keeps us playing along. The Red Pill is really about recognizing its impossibility, I think. There is no possible equity. To be sure, a woman can be loyal and dedicated to you, in theory, but she’ll only give that loyalty to the guy who needs it least. It’s like a cruel, cosmic joke.

Such as it is, that girl lied to me, ran for the hills the moment I showed weakness and needed her the most, and cheated on me. Big surprise, right? With a red pill awareness now I can see how predictable that result was, but at the time I was blindsided by it. I never saw it coming. I couldn’t understand how she could do such a thing when I’d invested so much in her, when I was so willing to give her all the things I’d always wanted most. I assumed she wanted the same things – men and women are the same, right? That’s what the egalitarians tell us. I couldn’t understand how those things could be so valueless to her that she would just throw it all away like that. She didn’t value them at all.

On occasion I’ve suggested that men watch the movie Blue Valentine. You can check out the plot summary on the IMDB link there, but you really need to watch the movie (on Netflix) to appreciate what I’m going to relate here. The main character suffers from the same romantic idealism and want for a perfected, mutually shared concept of love between himself and the single mother he eventually marries.

It follows along the same familiar theme of Alpha while single / Beta after marriage that most men experience in what they believe is their lot. More often than not the Alpha they believed their wives or LTR girlfriends perceived they were was really just a guy who’d do for their needs of whatever phase of maturity she found herself in.

By itself this would be enough for me to endorse the movie, but the story teaches a much more valuable lesson. What Dean (Ryan Gosling) represents is a man who idealistically buys the Blue Pill promise that men and women share a mutual love concept, independent of what their sexual strategies and innate dispositions prompt them to. Because of this misbelief Dean gives up on the burden of his performance. He drops his ambitions and relaxes with his ONE girl, contenting himself in mediocrity, low ambitions and his idealistic belief in a woman sharing and sustaining his romanticized Blue Pill love ideal – performancelessness.

He relaxes, lets his guard down and becomes the vulnerable man he was taught since birth that women would not only desire, but require for their false, performanceless notions of mutual intimacy. The men of this sphere who don’t find themselves divorced from their progressively bored wives are often the ones who trade their ambitions and passions for a life of mediocrity and routine,…so long as the security blanket of what they believe is a sustainable, passable semblance of that love (but not desire) exists in their wives or girlfriends.

Their burden of performance is sedated so long as their women are reasonably comfortable or sedate themselves. That false sense of contentment is only temporary and leads to their own ruin or decay.

No Quarter Expected

I’ve since watched something similar happen to a friend not once but twice. It’s textbook, standard shit. AWALT.

Cultivating these unrequited beta aspects of somebody’s character, if we did it on a mass scale, creates a society worth living in. It’s a civilized society where these things are most possible and it’s a truly worthwhile relationship where both parties regard each other this way and can full expect it to be reciprocated. It requires faith and trust, but we all know better. Our survival depends on knowing better, post sexual revolution. Women were never worthy of such trust and they’re entirely incapable of it. They were never capable of it. We were just supposed to think they were and cultivate the better aspects of our natures in order to be worthy of them.

The ugly truth of it is that women were never worthy of us.

Women’s sexuality doesn’t reward justice or goodness – if it did, reciprocity would be the norm and none of us would be confused about relational equity. Women reward not goodness, but strength. And strength is amoral, meaning it can be either just or unjust, good or bad. The guy with strength can either be the villain or the hero – it makes no difference to women. They can’t tell the difference and in truth don’t care anyway.

There is a set of the Red Pill that subscribe to what I’d call a ‘scorched earth‘ policy. It’s very difficult to reconcile the opportunistic basis of women’s Hypergamous natures with men’s hopeful, idealistic want for a love that’s independent from their performance burden. So the idea is again one of giving up. They say fuck it, women only respond to the most base selfishly individualistic, socio or psychopathic of men, so the personality they adopt is one that hammers his idealism flat and exaggerates his ‘Dark Triad‘ traits beyond all believability.

It’s almost a vengeful embrace of the most painful truths Red Pill awareness presents to us, and again I see why the scorched earth PUA attitude would seem attractive. Women do in fact observably and predictably reward assholes and excessively dominant Alpha men with genuine desire and sexual enthusiasm.

Agreeableness and humility in men has been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners.

The problem inherent in applying reciprocal solutions to gender relations is the belief that those relations are in any way improved by an equilibrium between both sexes interests. Solution: turn hard toward the asshole energy. Men understand the rules of engagement with women and they know Game well enough to capitalize on it so why not capitalize on that mastery of it?

The dangers of this are twofold. First, it lacks real sustainability and eventually becomes a more sexualized version of MGTOW. Secondly, “accidents” happen. MGTOWs will warn us that any interaction with a woman bears a risk of sexual harassment or false rape claims, but for the scorched earth guy a planned unplanned pregnancy on the part of a woman attempting to lock down her Alpha is far more likely to be his long term downfall. Emotional and provisioning liabilities for a child tends to pour cold water on the scorched earth guy.

It wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that women are philosophically, spiritually, and morally stunted. They have a limited capacity for adherence to higher ideals and this is why they don’t know or care what actual justice or goodness is. Like Schopenhauer said, they “mistake knowledge for its appearance.”

It took me a long time to be able to accept this. That is women’s true inferiority – and women are profoundly inferior. And I take no pleasure in recognizing that, as if I’m somehow touting the superiority of team men. It’s awful, in fact. Dealing with it is the ultimate burden of performance for us as individual men, but also as a society. At some point we’re simply going to have to confront women’s moral inferiority. If we look at our institutions, the very same that are crumbling now all around us, we can see that previous generations of men already figured this out. We just forgot what they knew.

So what’s the answer? Is justice valuable for its own sake? All of us would probably on some level want to be able to say yes and argue the case, but I don’t know if I can do so convincingly.

I’m with you on this, part of me thinks “Fuck this. It can’t be like this.” But it is. I wish I had the answer.

Niko attempts to redress the assumption that men feel some necessity to be someone they really aren’t. In Vulnerability I go into how the Feminine Imperative is only too willing to exploit this self-doubt by labeling men as existential posers and their conventional masculinity is a ‘mask’ – a false charade – they put on to hide the real vulnerability that lies beneath.

Unfortunately many men accept this as gospel. It’s part of their Blue Pill upbringing and is an essential aspect of their feminine ‘sensitivity training’ and gender loathing conditioning. When masculinity is only ever a mask men wear the only thing real about them is what real women tell them it should be.

What we don’t consider is the legitimacy of our need for strength, independence, stoicism, and yes, emotional restraint. That need to be bulwark against women’s emotionality, that need to wear psychological armor against the Red Pill realities of women’s visceral natures is legitimate and necessary. If a man’s vulnerability is ever it’s because his display of it is so uncharacteristic of his normal impenetrability. The woman’s demeanor, and the narrator’s voice, in the last post’s Campbell’s soup commercial is an example of the weak, vulnerability women expect from lesser child-men – and a commensurate expectation of him to just get that he needs to be strong.

That’s the inconsistency in women’s Hypergamous nature and the narrative of the Feminine Imperative’s messaging. Be sweet, open, vulnerable; it’s OK to cry, ask for help, be sick and weakened, we’re all equal and empathetic – but, Man Up, “what, you need your mommy?”, assert yourself, the asshole is sexier than you, where’s your self-discipline? – but, your masculine identity is a mask you wear to hide the real you,……

I play many roles in the male life I lead today, and I’ve played many others in my past. I’m Rollo Tomassi in the manosphere, I’m a father to my daughter, a husband and lover to my wife, a brilliant artist and pragmatic builder of brands in my job, an adventure seeker when I’m on my snowmobile and a quiet contemplator of life and God when I’m fishing. All of those roles and more are as legitimate as I choose to make them. Do I have moments of uncertainty? Do I waiver in my resolve sometimes? Of course, but I don’t let that define me because I know there is no real strength in relating that.

The Red Pill Balance

Red Pill awareness is both a blessing and a curse. The trick is balancing your Red Pill expectations with your previous Blue Pill idealism. It’s not a sin for you to want for an idealistic reality – that’s what sets us apart from women’s opportunism. You do yourself no favors in killing you idealistic, creative sense of wonderment of what could be. The trick is acknowledging that aspect of your male self.

KFG had a comment to this point:

If men did not hold heroism as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.
If women did not hold survival as a higher ideal, we wouldn’t be here.

This was precisely the dynamic I was referring to when I wrote Idealism.

Men’s idealism and idealistic concepts of love are the natural counterbalance to women’s pragmatic, Hypergamously rooted opportunism and opportunistic concepts of love and vice versa. Those differing concepts can be applied very unjustly and very cruelly, or very judiciously and honorably, but they are the reality of our existence.

Red Pill awareness isn’t just about understanding women’s innate natures and behaviors, it’s also understanding your own male nature and learning how it fits in to that new awareness and living in a new paradigm. Is something like justice valuable for its own sake? I’d say so, but that concept of justice must be tempered (or enforced) in a Red Pill understanding of what to expect from women and men. Red Pill awareness doesn’t mean we should abandon our idealism or higher order aspirations, and it certainly doesn’t mean we should just accept our lot in women’s social frame because of it. It does mean we need to balance that idealism in as pragmatic a way with the realities of what the Red Pill shows us.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

807 comments on “The Red Pill Balance

  1. I will add a few of my thoughts on the penis size issue, despite my N=1. Comments from the highly experienced alphas are welcomed.

    I knew my length but not my girth, so I went to measure it. Apparently I’m just slightly above average on both.

    I’ve hit the cervix on my wife a few times when getting carried away in the moment. She is not very tall, I don’t know if their length tends to be proportional though. What I do know and may be relevant is that their length also varies with arousal, so this is probably very relevant. Meaning that hitting the cervix doesn’t guarantee you are “big enough”, it may also mean you are having sex with a woman that isn’t sufficiently aroused.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vaginal_size
    “Lawrence, citing Masters and Johnson’s Human Sexual Response (1966), states that pages 73 and 74 of that book show that typical vaginal depth in Masters and Johnson’s participants ranged from 7–8 cm (2.8–3.1 in) in an unstimulated state, to 11–12 cm (4.3–4.7 in) during sexual arousal with a speculum in place.”

    Apparently those vaginas aren’t that long so I think these size preferences are mostly psychological than physiological. On the other hand dildos are usually sold on way above average size I guess, so maybe that is just wishful thinking from my part.

    I don’t know enough about oral sex to comment on the advantages of penis size there, but again I suspect it would be through a more psychological than physiological (that is usually a trend with women). Maybe that is the relevant tiebreaker motivating women to want those extra 2” (and 2 standard deviations) above the average, though, because they will have the penis literally in their faces.

  2. Lol where did THIS topic come from? I leave for the night and come back to a board decorated with cock talk.

    Guess I’m a five percenter though so I ain’t mad. Neither was any girl I was with.

    I suspect a lot of that is psychological rather than physical though. Girls seem to really love the thought that the guy they’re with is big. It’s a confirmation to them of your superiority, in a very unfakable way. Like height.

    I’m average height and am kinda trim, and like my clothes close-cut generally. So in America I usually go for size small shirts. My old GF was always pissed about that; seeing that S on the tag was incongruent to her. I hold myself like a tall person.

    Was hugging a girl once and she said how much she hates hugging short men. I pointed out that I was only like 2 inches taller than her, that it was mostly my body language that presumed that I was pulling her in and ‘protecting’ her. Head up, shoulders straight, pull her in and pull her head into the center of my chest. If she likes you she’ll help – do things like hold her elbows at her sides so she can’t wrap her arms all the way around you so she feels like you’re MASSIVE.

    Kinda same with dick size. Yeah, if it’s tiny you might want to look into small girls, enhancement, whatever. Never studied it. But otherwise it’s mostly to do with how she perceives it. Which girls, esp with low N, will tend to get from how YOU feel about it.

  3. Incredible….from Idealism to cock size….LOOOOOL

    Anyway my precious brothers in spirit. All these cocksize talkings are not more than another “Backdoor” attack to your frame. Hold your frame and the female gate of hapiness will be ready and wet for you.

    Some have more and some have less…so what??? Do you wanna buy now pills, enhancement boxes or even do surgeries?? LOL…or do you prefer to cry over it and blame god / nature for it??

    It’s the same with the shorter guys out there. You can’t change that..so instead whining about it, you better sharpen your other weapons that you have.

    And believe me, there are other weapons!! Every man who reads on TRM for more than a year, understands that there are so many other ways.

    Game and red pill knowledge and also “weapons” like dark triad.

    And when it come to love you have your hands, your body..your tongue, your lipps, your eyes, your words and your body language.
    And when that’s not enough you can use your fist….LOL 😉

    Sorry guys, but thats too funny for me. I haven’t expected these kinds of discussions here in TRM.
    But new year..new ways?

    Thanks

  4. “My old GF was always pissed about that; seeing that S on the tag . . .”

    Nowadays “S” is actually “NF,” Not Fat.

  5. Yes, it’s true. Men have the burden of performance.
    We have to earn it every fucking day.
    We have to be better
    We have to earn more
    We have to look better
    We have to be stronger
    We need to have Game
    We need to have Frame
    We have to be dominant -> see Frame

    It needs to be earned every day. Once you stop, you are no longer a man. At least that is what women will say about you then.

    The big question now is; whats the price for that performance?

    IMO the answer is not to have more women. Good performace enables the man to get more OPTIONS.
    More options to do what ever he likes and that include “MORE and better” women.

    That is one of the reason why i would never decide to marry.

    I will never ever allow to limit my hard earned “options”. I want the opportunity to leave the woman whenever i want.

    And i want the woman to know that, because that makes me more attractive for her. Dread game.

  6. A mans size is not as important as his attitude.I am 5’10 220lbs and solid and I have been intimidated by men 5’7 160lbs.That 5’7 man could bench 380 more than 2 times his weight.I learned to streetfight from a skinny little chicano guy he must have put me on my ass 100 times dude had some good tricks. Had an assistant wrestling coach maybe 130 soaking wet and he could tie any man in knots the disgusting part was he couldn’t pronounce his R’s I hate losing to a man that talks like a three yo.

    It is kind of tough but the lifter died a while back interesting thing at the memorial every friend he had there was a man that stood up for his own beliefs no matter right or wrong these were the only people he could tolerate being around.We stayed up drinking his favorite beer till 1 in the morning,damn I miss that guy.

    As for cock size it doesn’t really matter either she want’s to pleasure you if you don’t believe that try faking it one time and see the results.Most women are modest about their apearance the room is usualy dark and alot is just left to the imagination.Foreplay is important to a good experiance.

    There once was a man with a corkscrew dick.
    he spent his life on one long hunt looking for a woman with a corkscrew cunt.
    When he found her he fell over dead sonovabitch had a lefthand thread.

    If you can’t hit the bottom of a tuna can at least you can knock the sides plumb out of it.

  7. Chicks come in different sizes too. Had one where her walls would get so gorged out I couldn’t fit inside once she got going.

  8. @All

    You know nobody ends up in the manosphere by accident.We are all experiencing things that just don’t seem right,and when I read someone ballsy like Rollo there is a ring of truth to what he is saying.I have run everything through the bullshit sifter and it came up empty.

    I don’t need to get mad about the way things are I have to except them and move on doing the next right thing.A change of style for me is learning and working game while still holding my frame.These things I rarely even considered for the last 30yrs.Just to busy trying to make ends meet,things happen interest goes up or down bubbles burst the market changes I tried something new and ran smack into feminism.Needless to say we didn’t see things eye to eye and I went MGTOW and never even heard of it.Lost frame,relationships went to hell and I went into victim status.This is a fucked up state of mind very counter productive.

    Wound up here not good at comunicating electronicly or wrighting at all for that matter but improving.When reading the comments I can see there are veterans and new guys and new old guys like me that have been through the cock grinder.I appreciate all,these men have helped me regain some frame and respect.

    As for justice I have never experienced this in 55yrs,she does wear a blindfold maybe we should pitch in and get her some cheap sunglasses.As this would at least look cool with the scales and all instead of some sort of pin the tail on the donkey look.

    Things are looking up for me,got a good job offer working some good gigs now,hell I might even get some strange tonight she died her hair. planning a fishing trip with my son,I bought him Rollos books if he has done any reading we have some things to discuss.
    Shine on dudes

  9. @Stuffin – While I agree with what you are saying in some ways, in the sense that the frame and dynamics and psychology, I think you also have to admit that size matters. Go ask 5 women who are sexually active, under 30 and see what they say. Every single one I’ve asked gives answers identical to what that survey showed. Over 8 inches is too big, 7-8 is perfect, under 5-6 is pathetic. The mechanics matter.

    Not obsessed with this, I just think its something I’ve rarely heard men discuss openly and honestly – while women will go on and on and on about it if you ask them. Try asking a group of women in a bar about it, see what happens. Just sayin’.

  10. @scrib
    Not happening at my age and looks I would get 86ed forever for asking that in a public setting. We picked up some hookers on colfax one time got a split room with two beds.Still got nicknames for these girls I could here coco in the next room telling my buddy you got a funky shaped lil banana dick. And then i could here her get of on it to.

    so yeah it matters but how you use it matters more.
    If you never saw the serial numbers on a rubber you never rolled it out far enough.
    A condominium is a rubber for a extra small dick.
    I don’t need a condominium, never have seen the numbers either.

  11. @WaterCannon – Yep, as I surmised from my interaction with Kitty. She hasn’t a freaking clue. According to her, we are all just men who are bitter after being screwed over by women, lol. Typical. Still, she can be a useful ally and has potential if she learns more. Hope she comes back, she’s fun and civil.

    It is funny though, she’s parlayed being hot and edgy into a big blog presence with awards from Indie Chicks and others. She’s got a decent sized twitter following and as far as I can tell, she’s just a bit non-traditional and a little anti-feminist – third wave only. She also has several pics of a hot blonde all over her properties, if that’s her that’s always a help.

    Not much to see there as far as I can tell.

  12. @ scribblerg

    Why ask a woman about anything they want? It’s like saying i don’t get it if she thinks i’m usefull she will tell me what she wants for.
    Anyhow women you give em an inch they want the whole thing.

    Did see kitty mentioned MGTOW didn’t see any mention of TRM did anybody?

  13. @Stuffin – You have to have some perspective for crying out loud. Women can tell which kind of dicks they like better, I mean, let’s be real. Sure, notwithstanding all other considerations, size matters. It’s funny how some men just can’t stand hearing that.

  14. We’re veering pretty close to rehashing the ‘looks matter’ debate here.

    Forgive me the hubris, but I think the most balanced take on these thing we’ve had here is when YaReally goes off on someone for advocating the utility of looks, and then I interpret his comments in context.

    My argument has always been that looks matter – both in how women view you initially (a good-looking man has warmer opens) and in how intense she feels for you when she sees you later on (it’s easier to get her to blush, lock her gaze on you, lock eyes with her if you’re really good looking). However, many other aspects of how you present yourself also make a large – in some cases even bigger – impact on how the relationship goes. Some of those things are not much in your control (how dangerous the surrounding environment is) many are somewhat in your control (how good a job you have/your social proof) and others are entirely out (dotcom crash and you’re a web developer, or you just have shitty genetics and it affects your appearance or health).

    Game, however, is very much in your control. As such, it makes good sense to emphasize getting good game before relying on money or looks, which can fade or flee. Barring something like a personality-altering stroke or dementia (in which case pretty much everything is screwed anyways) there’s no way to lose it.

    Also, game tends to make a girl want you specifically – rather than her looking for ‘some guy who’s cool and makes 80 grand, I guess this one will do.’ Which is existentially quite unsatisfying, I imagine (I suppose I can’t speak from experience here – each girl I’ve slept with has been obsessed with me lol).

    Dick size, I think, works similarly to looks. Same level of game, big dick instead of average dick, better. But at that point it doesn’t matter too much.

    No game? The only way you’re getting laid is some external thing a horny girl latches onto. If you have money, looks, or a big dick in that circumstance it can make a big difference. But that sexual union ain’t going anywhere good.

    But I still feel like I missed something. I asked AT about sleeping arrangements and then he posted some shit about dick size. Did I miss some question above?

  15. “Get real. how many women do you know that can actualy read a tape measure?”

    Don’t need one if you got nerve endings in da box.

    There’s a visual/psychological component with dick size that doesn’t have an analog in men’s attraction to women. A girl likes thinking she has a big dick in her. Past that, I assume the material circumstance isn’t too dissimilar between the genders – how much do you hear a guy talking about how a tight pussy is important, and such things? That’s probably about how important dick size is to the mechanics of the circumstance. It matters. It doesn’t override, usually.

  16. Suffice it to say size doesn’t matter to me,aside from couldn’t get it in or to loose and everything in between. had these experiences with different women and also the same woman in LTR.Been out of game for so long that I haven’t a clue about it.Just relearning as I can’t get by on brute strength forever.
    Over out

  17. Someone’s talking bikes so I had to go back.
    Triumph is in good standing. Mv isn’t going to be a threat.
    The FZ 09 might be better than both the Ducati 821 and Mv 800.
    Even with it’s soft suspension.

  18. @WCB

    The 1050cc platform has had virtually zero changes since 2005, aside from having 3 bikes that carried it cancelled and not really replaced. All that’s left running on an 11 year old engine is the Speed Triple, and the MV 800 weighs less with 10 more horsepower.

    Don’t get me wrong they make some good bikes (the Rocket III in particular is insane, and I feel the 1050 Sprint ST is their most overlooked bike in their lineup), but the Italians are currently beating them at their own game in the naked sport market.

    @Forge

    I can’t bring myself to get a Monster. I love the looks, but it’s always running their previous generation of engine for a price $1k more than say an Aprilia Shiver 750. BTW, I’ve tried the Shiver and it’s a brilliant little thing. Ridiculous amounts of v-twin powered fun.

    As for the Diavel, it’s the ugliest thing Ducati has ever made and I hate it. Looks like a whale humping a 1200cc engine. If I was going to go supervillain, I’ve got my evil iron horse already picked out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqpDP7HQMtg

    Add in a supercharger, aftermarket exhaust, and a few other toys and you can get it pushing 400bhp and around 400lb/ft of torque. There’s no way you can hook the rear end up with the ground after the mods.

  19. Triumph may be targeting a different buyer than outright performance battles.
    $18,000-$20,000 vs $13,000, the Triumph will do alright in sales if you compare the two.
    KTM super duke might even outsell the Brutale.

  20. But there’s hardly any bike I don’t like, so it’s all about the ride.
    I’m considering the FZ 07 or FZ 09 myself.

  21. @WCB

    The 800RR starts around 15.5k, the Speed Triple R around 14.5k. Only a grand difference. They’re in the same price class. 😉

  22. I think we need Yareally to come here and tell us women don’t want big dicks. (in fields video about women hating big dicks).

  23. I did a quick look. some of the prices may have been for the bigger Brutale. MV website has it at 11,600 english pounds. Exchange rate last I remember was about 1.5 I believe. I love the bike, but just don’t feel it’s much of a threat to Triumph considering everything like price, how it is to ride daily, not just track numbers. Head to head comparisons in magazine, the Brutale may get picked over the Triumph, but regular costumer sales, don’t think it will.
    Honda’s 919 was a sweet bike. Very well put together. Along the lines of a SV650, only bigger. Just a good bike that looks a little classic, but a little always current.
    The ZRX(green one) and the Monster from mid 2000’s. I think 2006 was the last year before they changed the looks of it.

  24. @IAS Re: January 10th, 2016 at 3:33 am

    Thanks for the brief follow-up — and I accept that men can ‘love’ more than one woman. I also think that, in my scenario, the woman in question, does genuinely believe or *rationialise* that she loves her LOTR, while also … er…. loving me as well; but I am tending towards the ‘outright lie’ where I am concerned.

    My prediction for her is that, even though she has gained the ‘provisioning’ BB commitment she sought from her LOTR by way of a promise of an apartment in which they both live and settle down, having realised that he cannot fulfil her AF requirement, she will be cheating on him in a couple of years max, in any case. Her experience with me merely served for to learn just how she might go about it. (She claimed to me that she was inexperienced at this.)

    Lessons for me (I am something of a newbie at this!):

    (1) Women in long-term relationships = married, and are therefore to be avoided by me as prospects for sexual liaisons; as a poster on this particular ‘Red Pill Balance’ blog has stated: do not enable married women to cheat when there are plenty of unmarried women out there (I interpret this as ‘not married’, as I do believe that there is no such thing as an unattached woman); and

    (2) Stick to my guns: no woman is worth making an exception for when it comes to my sense of integrity. The desire for sex at any price from a woman from whom I desire sex is ultimately a frame-loser as desire cannot be negotiated (as @Rollo always states). I was, hypocritically, willing to make an unholy compromise on this occasion because I started to develop romantic feelings for the woman concerned.

    Now I face an interesting challenge. I am going to have to see this woman several times a week in my practice of Martial Arts, and there is usually a meal which some of us attend after the last practice session each week (I do so regularly, as does she).

    I am in two minds here. I can carry on as normal, ensuring that I firmly rebut any attempt by this woman to play the LJBF card (this is relatively easy in the actual club environment because I am the senior rank), and merely pay no heed to her at the after-practice meal.

    Or, I can find another club to practice at altogether, wiser (I hope) for this experience.

    The advantage of doing so is that I can make a clean escape.

    But the disadvantages are that: the instructor is very good (and he is sure to want to know why I would no longer wish to be his student); I like and am liked in return by my other club-mates; leaving would amount to a *loss of face* — ie loss of frame.

    Any thoughts from you — and the other commentators in this blog — with regard to the ‘should-I-stay-or-should-I-go’ question regarding my Martial Arts club would be welcome:-)

  25. @talprofs: If the woman is the only reason you would quit that club, you should probably stay, unless you realize you can’t avoid getting Oneitis for her. If she wants, she can leave.

    If you want to drive her away from you romantically, I’ve read others suggesting to act very blue pill (on purpose) with her.

    Regarding the more general morality thing, sexual strategies are amoral. I myself wouldn’t intentionally go for a woman that is in an LTR, but we discussed this fairly recently with Andy. Look around this post comment sections
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/15/dont-hate-the-beta/comment-page-6/#comment-128354

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/15/dont-hate-the-beta/comment-page-7/#comment-128746

  26. @talprofs
    Sounds like a tough day in class but yeah stick it out. You don’t want to look back with more regret. and if you keep boning the wrong women you will need that black belt.

  27. “I just think its something I’ve rarely heard men discuss openly and honestly – while women will go on and on and on about it if you ask them. Try asking a group of women in a bar about it, see what happens.”

    @Scribblerg

    Because as we all know we should listen to what women say…

  28. @Andy – No, of course, we should trust what men have to say about women’s preference for cock size…Lol. Of course their “self-reports” need to be evaluated carefully – as I said, there are many considerations. But at the end of the day, women like a bigger than average cock.

    As Keyser pointed out, Rollo has weighed in on this as well. http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/17/size-matters/

    @RedPillLadyLurkers – Any of you who wish to go on the record about dick size would be greatly appreciated…

  29. I actually got an erection when I found this bike. I had a Suzuki GS1000 when I was younger and it was just such a great bike, a classic “super bike”.
    The Kawasaki ZRX 1100 (became the 1200, don’t think they are making anymore).
    http://www.cyclecolor.com/Photo%20MC/Kawasaki%20photo%203%2021%2006/IMAGES/Kawasaki%20ZRX%201100%201999%20Pearl%20Lime%20Green_jpg.jpg

    The colors of this one replicate the Eddie Lawson Kawasaki GPZ1100s he won with in the early ’80s. The engine on this bike was detuned ZX1100, so you got better low end torque. You ride upright and I actually tricked out one of the three of them I owned for touring with a great Givi setup. I could also pop the wheel in third gear, go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, redline was 10.5. I regularly smoked guys on crotch rockets with it. Yet it was a comfortable ride, and a simple bike, chain drive and nothing fancy. Notice the minimalist faring and lack of chrome, it was just a badass, super fast bike (at 145, it felt like it had plenty more in the tank, I probably could have gotten it up to 180 but 145 seemed the upper end of reasonable, long past the point where the dotted white line goes solid and cars doing 70 are whipping by like they are standing still 🙂 ). I personally cannot stand the cafe racer riding posture, and I also like being able to have a passenger ride comfortably and safely. There is also nothing like having a big engine when accelerating away from a dumb or aggressive trucker/motorist etc who thinks its fun to mess with a guy on a bike.

    Haven’t had a bike in a while, 2016 I will buy a touring bike. My bro has a road king for sale and may just pick it up from him. I live in bike heaven, so many back roads and cruising areas.

  30. Fuck, David Bowie died. Another man I always had tremendous respect for. I listen to music while I work and am listening to him all day today, he has a tremendous catalog. One of his public moments I liked best was when he was being interviewed by the ever-so-tedious, pretentious, no-talent Charlie Rose. Here’ s a clip. Notice how Bowie can’t even be bothered to look Rose in the eye.
    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8CNhakfB7c&w=560&h=315%5D

    HIs comments on artistic expression also resonated deeply with me.

  31. Dick Size: Matters as much as you let it.

    Women love to feel “full” so a larger penis will “fill” us better, more of the time. However, a larger penis (I’d say 6.5 and up) can hurt at times by hitting the cervix. But a 5 inch dick can also hit the cervix and hurt and it can also fill a woman. Our vaginas change shape and responsiveness during our cycles. For instance when we are nearing ovulation, our cervix softens and becomes mushy like the consistency of our cheeks. After ovulation, the cervix shuts down the door to the uterus (cervix) and it becomes harder, like the consistency of the tip of your nose. It is in this time that sex can hurt, no matter her size or the man’s penis size. Complicating factors further, a woman’s uterus also will “float” so the cervix will move positions in her body. The combination of her floating uterus and the firmness of her cervix changing is why sometimes she can take a ruthless pounding (soft cervix/ovulation) and sometimes she struggles to find a position that doesn’t shoot jabs of pain throughout her body.

    I described this a bit in this post although I think I need to edit it with more of the detail I just provided here because there’s still been some confusion. http://kittenholiday.com/shes-not-moody-shes-horny/

    To continue with dick size, with all this shape shifting that a woman’s body and vagina does, in addition to the fact that our vaginas aren’t gaping holes but are closed and can open to accommodate what’s in there as well as the fact that when aroused, the walls of our vagina swell making it even tighter the hornier we get, a vagina is going to respond and feel full with nearly any penis size. A larger penis will make her feel “full” with less effort, but it’s not going to get her off any better than any other penis.

    Sexual skills, an ability to give her a blend of both comfort and excitement, the ability to engage her mind erotically as well as any emotional connection is going to be the difference between her wanting more. Women can be completely oblivious to their own bodies, their own turn ons and even what drives their sexuality. So, some may say the guy had a small dick as a way to explain away the lack of sexual chemistry when really there wasn’t the connection, he didn’t flip her switches.

    It’s like turning down an offer on something because of “price.” no one questions is, it’s an easy out that demands no further thought, but most deals aren’t lost on price. If someone understands the value, they will pay or negotiate, no one really walks away on “price.” It’s a throwaway. So is “dick size.”

    If the man believe’s his dick size matters, he will convey that to the woman in the way he conducts himself. Either with cockiness or as an insecurity. But it’s all posturing and goes out the window when skin hits the sheets. There’s nothing worse than a man who promises sexual prowess and can’t deliver. It’s just setting up for disappointment.

    I would highly recommend you throw away any concern over dick size completely because it isn’t going to help anything. You’ve got what you’ve got. And if dick size was all that mattered, or even mattered the most there’d be no need to learn to flirt, neg, game, tease, torture and entice women, you’d just put your dick pick as your profile picture on dating sites, auto send it in reply to text messages and only 10% of the population would ever get laid. 😉

    Once you get sexual there’s a lot more in play than a penis. Focusing too much on dick size gets in the way of paying attention to the nuances that build that sexual energy, get her swollen with lust, make her mind race with passion and get her off until she’s shaking and sweating and screaming.

    Red Pill Lady Lurker
    @KittenHoliday

  32. For the record, I’m not dissatisfied with my dick. Not an issue for me. But I am interested in reality. I also cosign that technique and overall eroticism matter most in all sexual matters. That said, too many women claim to like a bigger dick (not huge) that I can’t avoid considering how dick size factors in.

    @Kitty – Great comment, keep ’em coming.

    @Andy – The best orgasms a woman seems to have from my experiences (which are fucking vast, fyi) are the ones that come from fucking. I can only do this with some women. I find mechanically that my best chances come when her legs up behind her ears and I’m “hitting it” in just a certain way, but also that mindset/level of arousal are factors. I know how to make a woman come other ways but there is something so great about both of you getting off just from fucking. I think size can help here. At 6″ with above average girth, I’ve long wondered if another inch would make a difference in “hitting it”, all other things being equal. But hey, you love to take shots at me all the time for some reason, perhaps you’ll work this out with your therapist at some point…

  33. “But hey, you love to take shots at me all the time for some reason”

    lol, I take shots at everybody. You aren’t special.

    “The best orgasms a woman seems to have from my experiences (which are fucking vast, fyi) are the ones that come from fucking.”

    You’ve had sex with 100+ women, and this is what you contribute? lol.

  34. I was so resistant to Tyler at RSD initially. I thought it was because I saw him as a douche but in fact, it was because he was so confronting to all my ego investments. He just did a new motivational video and it’s truly genius for any Red Pill man who finds this journey a battle. Andy, this doesn’t apply to you because you have it all sorted…And of course MGTOWs can scroll by too because they have surrendered and the very idea that they should be struggling and striving is offensive for them…For the rest of us fighting the inner battle of self improvement and game, here ya go.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOyBQZTisJY&w=560&h=315%5D

  35. Still on vaginas, apparently most of the nerve endings are near the entrance.

    Andy, I’m fairly certain Scribblerg meant PIV.

    About Sex God Method, isn’t the book focused mostly on psychological aspects rather than specific techniques?

  36. @Scribblerg

    “@WaterCannon – Yep, as I surmised from my interaction with Kitty. She hasn’t a freaking clue”

    @RedPillLadyLurkers – Any of you who wish to go on the record about dick size would be greatly appreciated…

    “@Kitty – Great comment, keep ’em coming.”

    Maybe, based on further interactions, you will change your mind about me.

    @KittenHoliday

  37. @Andy – Indeed, as I concluded long ago you are have an anti-social personality combined with a deep narcissistic streak. In other words, you’re a bit of a cunt. Wearing it like a badge of honor doesn’t make it any better…

  38. @Kitty – Read more carefully and you won’t make the mistakes you are making here.

    1. I suggested in our initial exchange that you go to the top of this page and read the best of year 1 and 2 to get up to speed on what we are actually discussing here. It was at this point that you disappeared.

    2. The comment you cited was about your actual knowledge of the Red Pill, which after reading this post http://kittenholiday.com/red-pill-dating-advice-for-women/ is clearly sorely lacking. In fact, in this post, you state several times that you are just learning about the Red Pill and haven’t learned much about it yet etc. Your own statements confirm (and informed) my observations. You can correct this by doing the reading I’ve suggested twice now.

    3. Much of your commentary about sexuality on your blog is interesting – but it’s not Red Pill. That’s okay, and I find your commentary here to be interesting. But the distinction matters.

    Last. Don’t assume you understand us – your blog post clearly demonstrates you don’t understand us or the Red Pill. Do the work and learn what we are up to and I will readily acknowledge when evidence of that surfaces. Your other commentary is valuable regardless. Is that clear? It’s a bit nuanced, so think before you just respond.

  39. I have an unshakable conviction of biology. Biology, physiology, made us unequal. No amount of game can change a man’s dick size or a man’s height. An ugly fat feminist can spend all her life fighting(HB9s) for a share of the alpha tingle , but she can’t change biology. She can never be EQUAL to a HB 9. Is short man Equal to a tall man? NO. Is a man with small dick Equal to a man with big dick? NO. Ask any short man if he was Re called to be re manufactured, he would definitely want to be taller (the same for small dick).
    Read what this tall woman had to say about not wanting to date men who are shortER than her (don’t forget, we are not equal) . Pay attention to biology in # 3,4,7.

    1. Short guys get insecure about their height

    I have never met a short guy who was completely comfortable with his own height. Most are extremely self-conscious to the point of making mean comments about my height. Like this guy, for example, said I am abnormally tall because I ate products affected by nuclear radiation back in USSR. It’s funny, we laughed about it. But it wouldn’t be funny if I told him that he’s short because he ate leprechaun food as a kid or something.

    2. Short guys ask you to not wear heels

    Even though I’m already tall, I still love to wear high heels. They’re sexy and they make me feel confident. A few short guys have legit asked me to wear flats when I’m around them. I respect that, they’re uncomfortable, it emasculates them… whatever, cool. Would I date them in the long run though? No.

    3. It looks weird

    A tall girl next to a short guy looks aesthetically mismatched. Like, when the two are walking together, he can’t even put his arm around her shoulder. It’s definitely not the worst thing that could happen to a couple, but still. No, thanks.

    4. You won’t feel feminine

    I end up feeling like a giant next to a shorter guy. It’s not flattering or pleasant. Is it all in my head? Possibly.

    5. Short guys can’t lift you

    You definitely can’t replicate that famous lift scene from Dirty Dancing with a short guy. Even sitting on a short guy’s lap feels weird… it’s like he should be the one sitting on your lap instead, you know?

    6. Short guys tend to have the Napoleon complex

    Short guys tend to act overly-aggressive or domineering in order to compensate for their height. It’s actually very common for short guys to act unreasonably pushy with other men, for example, and pick fights for no reason.

    7. Short guys don’t look like they can protect you

    It’s a mental thing. As a tall girl, I don’t feel protected in the company of a shorter guy. He can’t be my Superman, you know what I mean?

    8. Kissing standing up is weird

    Making out with a shorter dude is a confusing experience. You have to bend down to reach his lips. Yeah, it’s a pretty awkward feeling. You’ll be secretly hoping no one can see the two of you. All of a sudden, you’ll be against any kind of PDA.

    9. Short guys will most probably have short kids

    I can’t help but think that if we end up having kids together, they might be short AF. Short offspring is not cool. They’ll be like, “Thanks mom, thanks a lot!” So yeah, I’m doing it for the kids.

    10. They’re jealous of tall guys

    My ex, who was on the shorter side, once said something like, “I’m sure you’ll leave me for a tall dude.” Why so insecure though? He also lost his shit on me when I spoke to a tall guy at his work. That was the only time he ever threw a fit of jealousy and it happened to be with a tall guy. Coincidence? I think not.

  40. @Rollo: I recently read the book “Practical Female Psychology”, which is rather damning on Low Self Esteem women, and wonder if you have specific advice for handling a LSE “good girl”/low N archetype as LTR / wife

    Most of the existing RP praxeology on LSE seems to be about the “bad girl”/high N archetype.

    I looked through your archive and found out:
    http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/28/rational-male-qa/
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/06/03/you-never-forget-your-first/
    where you address questions (the second one was a question from CaveClown) on why some women consolidate on a man, often while still with a low N count. Your reply includes LSE.

  41. @Rollo: That’s a weird lookin’ motorcycle ya got there.

    re: “10. They’re jealous of tall guys”

    Tall guys have overtly expressed jealousy over my ability to fit into vintage, European sports cars. Thus I suspect their putting down such cars and favoring American muscle cars is just an expression of sour grapes.

    Alpha tall man Dan Gurney took a different approach to the European sports car size issue; he pounded on them to make them fit:

    https://primotipo.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/parkes.jpg

  42. Follow up from the post I made last week about the fight with my wife.

    At one point this weekend when we were trying to something that was frustrating the FUCK out of both of us, I sarcastically told her “great job on buying (the frustrating thing)” and she got angry with me. I was about to leave when I said it, and maybe an hour after I got home, I started talking to her about something else in the living room. After a minute of unrelated conversation, she said

    Her: I don’t like that you insulted me earlier. I know you were frustrated but that doesn’t mean you have to take it out on me.

    Me: Well, I was frustrated…

    Her: Right but that doesn’t make it okay, like I just said.

    Me: You’re right, it doesn’t.

    At this point one of the kids came into the room and I diverted my attention to him.

    That was the end of it. No more mention was made the rest of the night and we interacted as we otherwise would have if there had been no fight.

  43. @scribblerg

    fixed:

    I suggested in our initial exchange that you go to the top of this page and read the best of year 1 and 2 to get up to speed on what we are actually discussing here. It was at this point that you behaved as expected

  44. @Dutchman change to this: “something that was frustrating the FUCK out of both of us, I got behind her and started dry humping her saying, NEVER, EVER get something this frustrating again!”

    That would have been a better way to handle the stress, but you chose a bitchy passive aggressive way, just like a woman would. Too much talking in general with you I believe. Your wife can’t bitch if your lips or cock are on her lips. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the next time your wife tries to “talk” about something bothering her, just grab her and make out.

  45. @kfg,
    It’s not a big problem to make a larger seat for the European alpha tall driver, but for a short man’s lap to be widened to be able to seat a taller girlfriend is impossible.

  46. @Dutchman: ” I sarcastically told her “great job on buying (the frustrating thing)” . . .”

    Just as you say “Mistakes were made,” instead of “I’m sorry,” next time consider taking a deep breath, looking her straight in the eye, and saying, in a deep and measured voice, “Buying this was a mistake.”

    There’s a pretty good chance that she will immediately respond with, “I’m sorry.”

    @Keyser Soze: “It’s not a big problem to make a larger seat for the European alpha tall driver . . .”

    You are obviously unacquainted with the Triumph GT6.

    A) It’s so cramped inside that the bucket seats, extra small to begin with, have to be carved out to fit over the drive train hump.

    B) It isn’t the seat that’s an issue for tall men.

  47. @Rollo

    I hear you. It was actually a struggle for me not to say “I’m sorry” after that shit. My stupid oneitis brain was yelling at me like “Ok this is the part where you apologize.”

  48. MGTOW thoughts.

    First, MGTOW is probably an all but inevitable stage in unplugging / taking the Red Pill / “putting on the glasses”. It’s part of the anger stage. Some men may cruise right by it, most men will spend some time in it, some men get stuck in anger.

    Second, there’s a life-phase or age difference in MGTOW. A frustrated 20-something Omega who had Disney romance crap jammed down his throat won’t react to Red Pill truth the same way as a 40+ year old man who’s just been frivorced. The 20-something overweight virgin has more options than the 40+ year old man paying chilimony, for a start, although the younger man actually may find it harder to give up the romantic delusions about women.

    An older, frivorced man may just decide he’s done with women, certainly done with marriage, and that’s how it is. However in my experience these are not the men who hang out on MGTOW blogs, nor are they the ones trolling Red Pill sites for flames. These men may be reading Red Pill sites, or they may just go fishing.

    The annoying MGTOW’s seem to be younger, stuck in anger, and lashing out in many directions out of a self-hatred. I find myself wondering sometimes about the T levels of men who claim to want to kill their sex drive, perhaps the more extreme MGTOW men are just low T and thus have a combination of sexual frustration and emotional frustration.

    In the ancient world both Western (Rome, Babylon, etc.) and Eastern (China) some men were castrated for various reasons – harem guards traditionally were eunuchs, for example, as were some religious groups. There is an inherent desire for self-destruction, self-annihilation, in choosing to be castrated. Those MGTOW who claim to want to kill their sex drive seem to be heading down that road. While that desire might arise momentarily in some men out of sheer frustration, it makes no sense to adopt it as a praxology, never mind a philosophy.

    Which leads me to a conclusion: the real deal MGTOW isn’t heard from on red-pill sites that much, because he’s “gone fishing” and has no interest in women for whatever reason. Depending on age, he may come back from “gone fishing” at some point, and this site & others are most definately for him at that point because he’s starting to move on out of the anger phase.

    Anonymous Aged 60-something pointed out at Dalrocks’ more than once that part of the problem men have in fixing themselves up is the habit other men have of showing up and bellowing “You’re Doing It All Wrong”. He saw this more than enough in men’s groups he was involved in back in the day, groups for frivorced men who were coming to terms with reality. Some dork would always show up and go on about how “You’re not doing it my way, so You’re Doing It All Wrong”. It’s likely a form of AMOGing.

    So those “you’re doing it all wrong!” MGTOW who pop up from time to time here and elsewhere having a fit about Game (“Dancing monkey”, etc.) are in some sense just whoring for attention, playing out their own little Special Snowflake drama in a way that is not all that different from certain passive/aggressive games that women play. One could argue that the pushy “You should do it MY way” MGTOW are also just LARPing.

    The best suggestion for them: shut up. Stop whining around here. Go play in your own sandbox. When you’re done with your self-pity party and ready to get stuff fixed then come back.

  49. @Dutch, my marriage is on the ropes, but a major contributor to that was my ideal of respect and not getting it from my wife. My ego would get all butthurt about it and I’d go about making things worse. The last month has been a great turnaround for me thanks to this site and the comment section. NOTHING will alter my frame and get me butthurt any longer. Just the other day, my wife failed to say hi to me upon entering the house. When she went to put something in the frig, I smacked her ass real hard. She let out an angry yell and asked what the hell. I whispered into her her ear, “That’s what you get for not greeting me.” Magically, a smile appeared on her face. Before, I’d get all butthurt, yell, and keep up the conflict by responding to anything she said to me an a passive aggressive way.

    No wife can keep up a bitch fest if you, say, look at her, start doing the Flash Dance run-in-place dance right in front of her with a grin. Stupid shit like that. I just treat any of her gripes like one of my kids complaining about the other kid. Like I said, the last month has been great. My wife is even initiating sex without me asking.

  50. I won’t comment with my opinion because apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do, but will just say that I would like to shake some sense into Dutchman. I hope you all do it for me. 🙂 Have a great day.

  51. “I’ll do it. Pretty sure I won’t get a favorable response AT ALL but fuck it.”

    lol.

    The best outcome would have come from not losing your cool in the first place. Or if she was frustrated calmly tell her that you got this, she can go do something else… Gotta maintain composure. I think you get that though.

  52. “I’d get all butthurt, yell, and keep up the conflict by responding to anything she said to me an a passive aggressive way. ”

    Sadly, this is what I do.

    “No wife can keep up a bitch fest if you, say, look at her, start doing the Flash Dance run-in-place dance right in front of her with a grin. Stupid shit like that. I just treat any of her gripes like one of my kids complaining about the other kid. Like I said, the last month has been great. My wife is even initiating sex without me asking.”

    Good shit. I can actually visualize how I would pull this off with her in a way that is pretty congruent to my personality, and our dynamic. So, I’m going to work on it. Thanks for beating me up in the other post lol. I need that shit sometimes.

  53. @Kitten with a Whip: ” . . . apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do . . .”

    And a good 10 times more hours thinking really hard about what you have read.

  54. @Andy

    “The best outcome would have come from not losing your cool in the first place. Or if she was frustrated calmly tell her that you got this, she can go do something else… Gotta maintain composure. I think you get that though.”

    Yeah, I get the composure thing. I didn’t realize until the other day how bad I was at losing my composure.

  55. @Dutchman “I didn’t realize until the other day how bad I was at losing my composure”

    It’s not so much “losing” your own composure as it it allowing others to own it. Own your composure! Be the oak! Don’t let traffic, job, debt, wife, kid toy instructions own your composure. I chose to own mine 100% and life is much better this way.

  56. keyser Soze
    10. They’re jealous of tall guys

    My ex, who was on the shorter side, once said something like, “I’m sure you’ll leave me for a tall dude.” Why so insecure though? He also lost his shit on me when I spoke to a tall guy at his work. That was the only time he ever threw a fit of jealousy and it happened to be with a tall guy.

    So your ex is a man, keyser? Huh.

  57. Dutch
    My stupid oneitis brain was yelling at me like “Ok this is the part where you apologize.”

    Excellent, the first step to solving a problem is proper definition. Blue-pill oneitis brain says to you “Ohhh, noes, I have offended Herself and she might leave!”. Cultivate the abundance mentality in LTR/s and marriage, develop the ZFG mindset. Rollo’s right on the bullseye when he points out that your wife knows you need her more than she needs you. Fix your mindset and other aspects of her attitude will fall in line, sooner or later.

    Heck, ZFG works on all women, even relatives. A while back Monica Lewinsky was in the headlines again on Drudge, I was reading it in the presence of a female relation-by-marriage. Yeah, I was supposed to be social at a family thang but I was slacking on the web. So, back to Monica — I snickered about the blue dress, because back in the 90’s I just didn’t see why any woman would be that stupid / wierd as to keep a dress with Alpha jizz on it but now I totally get it. Reflecting back to conversations then with female relatives who professed “Gosh, why?” I inadvertently laughed out loud. So the female relation queries why I’m laughing, I said “Oh, just remembering the whole Lewinsky thing and how that blue dress made no sense. But now that I’ve got you girlies more figured out, I totally understand it”.

    Reaction? She puffed up and declared she was inSULTed by being compared in any way to Monica Lewinsky. Uh, oh, major brew up at a family event starting?

    Blue pill me would have groveled, to keep the peace. No more. Instead I ignored her for a few seconds, then laughed again. She doubled down – “How would you like it if I compared you to Bill Clinton or some of those other scumbags?”. Again, blue pill me would have retreated, apologizing profusely. Instead I grinned at her and said, “Eh, might be a little truth in that…” and then I changed the subject, refusing to engage her inSULTedness at all.

    Result? She dropped the subject, and stopped being inSULTed within a minute. Furthermore she was a lot calmer for the rest of the family-style evening.

    +1 on the observation you were passive agressive. Sarcasm must be used very sparingly, I’ve learned that the hard way, if nothing else it looks and sounds like SJW style snark in short order. Not a good look for a man.

    When your woman has made a mistake, I agree that a stern “That was a mistake” followed by silence is a better option. That’s how you’d talk to a teenager, right? Sometimes you might try thinking of your wife as the smartest teenager in the room – bright, but limited in judgement – and see how that changes your own mindset.

  58. Kitten Holiday
    I won’t comment with my opinion because apparently I have hours and hours of reading to do,

    Yes, dearie, you do have a reading assignment. Now, get to it. We don’t expect you to Just Get It (that’s man’s work) but you do need to deepen your understanding of how wrong feminism is. Not just 3rd wave, either.

    Freebie for you: 2nd wave feminism is based on the assumption that men and women are the same, except women can have babies. It’s a total blank-slate idea, and yeah that’s where Title IX came from. The assumption that women are just as interested in sports as men are.

    Brain studies and other work continues to show just how different men and women are down at the neurological level. You really do need to read more, and realize that it’s not just 3rd wave feminism that’s hurting men and women, it’s the institutiionalized 2nd wave as well. That’s where the whole VAWA, men-bad-women-good, drugging boys into compliance in grade school, etc. comes from.

    Done with freebie. Back to Dutchman’s betatude…

    but will just say that I would like to shake some sense into Dutchman.

    LOL at a woman “shaking some sense” into a man. Real life isn’t like some Lara Croft movie, dearie, nor do Chihuahua’s win fights with German Shepherds, either.

    I hope you all do it for me. 🙂 Have a great day.

    We’re already on it, dearie. Thanks for asking.

  59. @Anon, I’m fairly certain that this Red Pill man, married for almost 20 years, did more ‘living’ while backcountry sledding over the weekend than the majority of “you’re doing it wrong” MGTOWs.

    Funny how I’ve managed a Red Pill balance in life.

  60. @anonymous reader, and for Yareally’s anticipated reply.

    No matter how little we think anatomy should matter to one’s social and political rights, surely we can’t pretend biology doesn’t matter in sports. Surely there’s a reason we don’t let adults play in the t-ball leagues, and a reason most women athletes want their own leagues.
    Alice Dreger

    I know, biology is a bitch (just ask the feminists).

  61. @AR: Yeah, but I’m in charge of my own headspace and I like to image Ann-Margret.

    You win the pop reference prize of the day though.

  62. “I know, biology is a bitch (just ask the feminists).”

    @keyser

    You’re not a quick learner are you? The only thing you’re convincing me of is that some men are incapable of understanding the utility of separating themselves from their ego.

  63. newlyaloof
    Don’t let traffic, job, debt, wife, kid toy instructions own your composure. I chose to own mine 100% and life is much better this way.

    +1 on this. Sometimes in traffic I’ll see someone pounding the steering wheel, yelling. Looks really demented. I force myself to breath from the diaphragm if need be to stay cool when driving – makes for better, quicker decision making, too.

    When she yells and you yell back, she’s pushed your button and gotten a response. It’s like being on the grade school playground in a way. Try this – she yells at you and you ignore her, then respond in a slow, deliberate, lower pitched voice. “That was a mistake”.

    I bet you don’t make eye contact with her as much as you used to. It’s possible that when you do, you look away first. Hey, if you had a dog that was acting up, you’d stare it down, right?

    She’s lost attraction for your betaized self. Bear in mind that you may get more pushback when you start gaming her /standing up to her. This is just a fitness test. Ignore it, and stay with your Game plan.

    Say you start dry humping her and she snaps “Just what do you think you’re doing?” the worst possibly thing for you to do would be to revert to Beta mode and apologize. A better option would be to smirk at her and say nothing, or smack her on the butt and say “I”m doing what I want to do”, etc. Even just walking away in silence would be useful.

    Read a book on dog training. There are parallels.

  64. @Anon, good stuff, brother.

    I would argue that ZFG is a mindset for life, not just handling women.

    Abundance mentality is the key to ZFG… everything life throws at you is just a learning opportunity to successively fail less and ultimately gain mastery.

  65. @Kitten

    lol. It’s not as if I don’t KNOW that I’m being retarded here. Like I’m not on Rollo’s site because I think he’s wrong about all of this shit. What I’m looking for with my posts is a technical breakdown of what’s actually going on, because it’s hard for me to analyze myself, and shit where I’m emotionally invested. I’d be giving the same kind of advice they are giving me if somebody else was posting what I’m posting.

  66. @anon reader

    “Heck, ZFG works on all women, even relatives. ”

    Funny thing is I’ve always been completely ZFG with my female relatives, and really any woman I wasn’t attracted to. Only the pretty ones bring out my beta lol.

  67. @Dutchman I’m not judging you. It was an affectionate shake. I think it’s great you are getting advice and the support most of these guys are giving you I agree with 110%. Your plight is common and the solution they are recommending is exactly what you need to do. I just don’t think my opinion is valued here so I’m trying not to overstep but it’s hard for me because I like to contribute and I learn more by contributing than observing. I think you’re in good hands and you are doing the right thing. Your wife is lucky that you are taking these steps to improve yourself and your marriage and shift your attitude. I am confident you will make progress. Just keep listening to these guys and listen to what they are saying more than you listen to your doubts. Your doubts are liars. That’s all I have to say. I’ll go back to playing with my hamsters now.

  68. “I’ll go back to playing with my hamsters now.”

    Are your hamsters telling you that you know how to be a man despite the fact that you have never, and will never be a MAN? I feel like maybe that’s what they are saying right now.

    Also, here’s some advice for you… No MAN wants to be told how to be a MAN by a woman. You may want to limit your commentary to female perspectives.

  69. @dutchman

    Damn it I can’t stop. ;0)

    “technical breakdown of what’s actually going on, because it’s hard for me to analyze myself, and shit where I’m emotionally invested.”

    Here’s what I see… as a woman.

    If you read what I said about shit tests this is very similar. Questioning your attitude is a shit test: are you an asshole? Do you not respect me?
    You’re not an asshole; however you may have had a disrespectful tone because she created a problem and needed correction.

    Even answering the question is an admission of guilt, which is a lie because you aren’t an asshole nor are you intentionally disrespecting her, you were frustrated.

    So in apologizing you “admit guilt” which lowers her esteem for you. Even in answering you admit guilt. Letting your frustration take the lead showed lack of self-respect which is a turn off. Then giving merit to her accusation and HER correction, denies her her desire to be led by you.

    The only solution is shift to address the issue and correct it or shift to change the subject entirely, hopefully playfully.

    But when you address the issue, address it in a tone of correction with a clear resolution. Resentment builds when there are only problems and no solutions.

    The resolution should be pleasing to you. The best (most fun and rewarding, imo) way to “relieve” you of the tension created and “correct” the problem and shift dynamic back to “pleasing you” which pleases her is through sexual tension and escalation. And that’s why the dry humping as distraction/escalation/correction was suggested.

    The playful joker can work too to break tension if you aren’t in a position or confident enough in the process enough to use sexual energy.

    @Andy
    I’m not telling anyone how to be a man. All my commentary is coming from my experience/perspective as a woman. And obviously I haven’t finished my reading assignment or all my 10 hours of thinking but I’ve got many years experience being a woman.

  70. @talprofs

    BTW do you have any recipes for cupcakes? My aunt has assigned me the task of making cupcakes for our family gathering. Boy, do these family gatherings ever stress me out! Anyway if I can find a good recipe I want to decorate them with individual wooden sculptures made out of dyed toothpicks. I find doing this so absorbing I can forget all the mean things everybody says about me.

    Which is the type of thing you say to her:

    @IAS
    If you want to drive her away from you romantically, I’ve read others suggesting to act very blue pill (on purpose) with her

    BTW anybody ever seen Bowie break frame? He was the coolest. Disclosure: this post made while listening to Under Pressure

    It’s the terror of knowing
    What the world is about
    Watching some good friends
    Screaming ‘Let me out’

  71. Separate ego from yourself!? You mean when you approach hb9 and she tells you, NOT a chance in hell , you’re supposed to be proud? Or a “quick learner ” or how about say to yourself : she’s a lesbian then.

  72. @kitten

    all my 10 hours of thinking

    moving the goalposts, try reading “good 10 times more hours” out loud

    The only solution is shift to address the issue and correct it or shift to change the subject entirely, hopefully playfully.

    But when you address the issue, address it in a tone of correction with a clear resolution. Resentment builds when there are only problems and no solutions. The resolution should be pleasing to you. The best (most fun and rewarding, imo) way …

    I’m not telling anyone how to be a man

    really?

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