Empathy 2016

The Campbell’s Soup Company was founded in 1869. In those 147 years the company developed a reputation as a wholesome staple of brands to the point it’s been considered Americana – even Andy Warhol considered Campbell’s emblematic of the American experience.

But in the space of a 30 second commercial the Feminine Imperative and the feminist narrative has managed to corrupt, if not overtly destroy a brand identity that took 147 years to establish.

Last week I outlined how the imperative assimilated the Star Wars intellectual property and franchise; arguably another example of Americana. Monday I detailed how it is in women’s innate interests individually and in the Feminine Imperative’s interests on a meta scale to appropriate the works and fruits of men’s labors as a result of their Burden of Performance. And, once again, here we have another glaring example of the imperative’s appropriation of a storied brand identity to use as a vehicle for its narratives.

The gold of course is in the comments on the YouTube page. And as you might expect there’s a lot of predictable outrage swirling around how ‘not all women are like that‘ (NAWALT) and “wow, what a bitch.” The commercial message was even overt enough to trigger the average man to risk to consider, “flip the genders and look how this commercial reads.” But that’s just it, there is such a comfort with the Feminine Imperative in being this overt that even plugged in Blue Pill men cannot ignore the message.

What exactly is that message? In this case it’s the degree to which the imperative is comfortable in revealing truths about the nature of women. I’ve been calling attention to this comfort level for almost two years now. Open Hypergamy is almost a given at this stage. Open cuckoldry is beginning to establish a foothold in being socially acceptable, and later socially expected. In the coming years I believe we’ll begin to see an even larger degree of comfort the imperative has in revealing and reveling in innate feminine nature. This commercial, from a storied brand of comfort food no less, is the first illustration of this trend.

While this commercial and the hashtag associated are intended to shock, it’s important to understand the message that Campbell’s Soup Company is aligning itself with. Bear in mind that a board of executives, brand directors and marketing directs had to approve the message and budget needed to deliver this message. The fallback of course will be that the intent was humor, but they understand very well the latent message in the humor they will hide behind when the publicity backlash occurs.

No doubt the Jezebel set of the femosphere will either embrace the commercial’s message by parroting the trope that women hate to be men’s mothers, or they will decry it as portraying women as being heartless, careerist bitches – they just can’t win. In either interpretation the louder buzz will be as it always is, women being victims.

In a Red Pill perspective we see a lot of what we already know about women’s innate, visceral natures.

From Empathy:

Women cannot bear to see a Man experiencing negative emotions such as extreme anger, rage, fear, despair, despondency or depression for extended periods of time. You say you want to “be there” for your Man; but you cannot do it. If it goes on long enough, it kills the attraction; it sets off your hypergamy alarms; and subconsciously causes you to start hunting for a replacement Man.

A woman seeing a Male go through the above will seek to replace that Male immediately.

Women cannot listen to Men talking about or working out their dating/mating/relationship issues or problems. Women reflexively view a Man discussing such issues as “whining” or “complaining” or “bitterness” or “sour grapes” or “well, you just chose poorly, so sucks to be you” or “suck it up, no one wants to hear you bitching about it”.

As to both of the above principles; when a Male is involved, ratchet up by a factor of 5 the disdain and repulsion a woman experiences when seeing a Male do or experience the above.

I took a lot of shit from indignant women when I published Empathy. Yet here we have what was likely a half million dollar budget commercial graphically confirming exactly the premise of my post.

As a bonus this message also overtly confirms much of what I wrote in Vulnerability:

Vulnerability is not something to be brandished or proud of. While I do believe the insight and acknowledgement of your personal vulnerabilities is a necessary part of understanding oneself (particularly when it comes to unplugging oneself), it is not the source of attraction, and certainly not arousal, that most men believe it is for women.

From the comfort of the internet and polite company women will consider the ‘sounds-right’ appeal of male vulnerability with regard to what they’resupposed to be attracted to, but on an instinctual, subconscious level, women make a connection with the weakness that vulnerability represents.

A lot of men believe that trusting displays of vulnerability are mutually exclusive of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness.

Yes ladies, I understand you’re not like this. I fully anticipate the “not in my experience” personalization each of you will attempt to adopt to placate any bad juju and your solipsistic mental point of origin. Just remember that this is the messaging your gender’s imperative is fostering. This is the message that Campbell’s Soup will stake its 147 year brand reputation on because it believes it will sell more soup.

It may seem that I’m being unduly critical of the narrative of this commercial, but remember that this narrative exists for a reason. I have no doubt women will chime in about how it’s an exaggeration, but what message is being exaggerated? What is the message that the medium is conveying here? For as much as the narrative would like men to be sensitive and open up about their feelings, for as much as it wants men to be vulnerable, all it takes is a 30 second commercial to confirm that men expressing weakness isn’t strength, and Hypergamy doesn’t care if your Mommy made you soup when you were sick as a child – stop expecting Strong Independent Women® to be your Mommy.

Keep in mind the contradicting message this commercial conveys here. This is the same degree of ruthlessness and insensitivity that the Feminine Imperative expects from, and finds attractive in, men.

701 comments

  1. The guy’s next move should not have been meekly making his own soup. He should have thrown the phone back and told her to call the movers and get out of his house!

  2. Or, even better, the soup gives the guy a visible boost which segue’s to him having the energy to throw her Jimmy Choo collection and cosmetics onto the sidewalk.

  3. A dynamic I’ve seen as “the other guy” ; women will sometimes present the image of “staying loyal” through whatever is ailing their man while stepping out on the super-qt .If her Main Guy gets back on his feet, the affair gets filed under ‘never happened’. If he doesn’t or can’t recover, she’s gone fast enough to break the sound barrier.

    To speculate a bit going forward, being New Years and All.

    A commenter some posts back mentioned how dating in High School has effectively stopped. Rollo Tomassi elaborated how that made sense given HS girls have their money covered by Mom & Dad, so Betas are totally superfluous to their reproductive need. Thus HS girls only bang Alphas and bypass other males entirely.

    The commercial above reflects the greater expanse of that mating model into mainstream society. Instead of it being Mom And Dad subsidizing women , it’ll be a combination of females earning more in society due to pro-female college and corporate HR recruiting plus the current class of AFC betas being savaged by anti-male college policies and laws. Alphas won’t be in the college classroom either; high SMV guys will be poached off by some enterprising girl maybe sophomore year of college at the latest. If an Alpha does make it to graduation, it wont be as a bachelor.

    By the time women graduate and enter the professional workforce the only guys she’ll be around will be the unattractive, hardcore Betas too low on the SMV scale to merit female attention. Combine that with her own income , and women will either bang the Alphas they can find or remain chaste. Other males can basically fuck off and die as far as they’re concerned, and its a manifestation of that disposability which we also see in that Cambells ad.

    If a girl dates/married a dude its because he offers something she’d have to work harder to get elsewhere. If he walked out of her life, shed probably manage OK. Case in point; many of my plates are seeing Beta chumps. None of the women honestly depend on the males in the traditional manner: if their betabuxs’ walked out tomorrow they’d all manage just fine, and would have a replacement Beta on their doorstep faster then a pizza delivery. That includes the married one.

    True its just a sample of three, but what ive seen reinforces the core point of that and many other ads nowadays. Beta males are totally disposable , to the point where an AFCs only reliable friend is a can of soup.

  4. This kind of thing, but with a more serious illness, is what broke me out of the matrix. Was in freefall for a while before finding Dalrock and then Rollo.

    When wifey was ill the silver lining was that I could demonstrate that I cared instead of just saying it. When I married I really thought we were forming a team and we would support each other.
    I think maybe I belong to the last generation that would believe such things. The problem is that noone is going to disabuse a man of such ideals before he gets married, you learn this stuff afterwards and find out marriage isn’t what you were sold.

    Life experience for a man is ever so though – it’s the same one sided relationship in work & team sports; give all you can, but we’ll cut you as soon as you’re done.

    I’m not bitter any more, just accepting, this is how it is, as man you’re alone.

  5. It is nice to see all this, plus, CH, Dalrock, etc. All I am seeing is Manginas!!!! Guys are really hard up! What they are marrying is surreal.
    They know nothing of being a man. Worst part,they do not care.
    MGTOW is going to be the only option for a true man. Let the imperative
    reap what is left!!!!

  6. I called my mom, who grew up on an extended family farm during the Great Depression and rationing shortages of WWII.

    She said, “Dump the ungrateful bitch.”

  7. This is an interesting topic for me. A massive green flag fairly early on with my LTR (now my wife) was that she took care of me when I was ill for a couple of days.

    Since then I also had the opportunity to take care of her a few times, more times than she needed to care for me.

    And some months ago, I also helped her family as her dad (that I didn’t get along with particularly well) got progressively worse with cancer and died very weak. Her mother stuck through it for many months with apparent little resentment while he died of cancer, so she was above average in this.

    While I am fairly certain that my wife is also above average in this respect as well (meaning she would care for me for longer and resent me a bit less than the average woman would), I have unfortunately been able to witness how she has little to no empathy with my mother (which my wife doesn’t get along with particularly well), which was diagnosed with cancer not too long after her father was.

    My wife has also complained some time that if she gets ill I won’t take care of her properly. This is because I don’t care to keep the house as prim as she likes it, and she knows I wouldn’t if she was ill and couldn’t do it herself.

  8. I think maybe I belong to the last generation that would believe such things. The problem is that noone is going to disabuse a man of such ideals before he gets married, you learn this stuff afterwards and find out marriage isn’t what you were sold.

    On the contrary, guys like Rollo and Dalrock have disabused many of us of exactly those things. Not every man has to learn the hard way- some of us have the wisdom to learn from the experiences of others.

  9. Reminds me of a radio interview where some woman acrobat had broken her neck in training.
    She phoned her fiance while the ambulance made its way to her “will you stay with me?” Quickly moving to secure her future.
    Where I am now it doesn’t occur to me that she’d stay with him.

  10. @donal well thanks a bunch for that, but noone comes to the manosphere because his woman is too good to him.
    You’ve got to know you’ve got a problem before you wonder what went wrong. An untested woman will never show her steel.

    Society tells us that women are angels who’ve turned in their wings for the duration. Until they’ve been tested by adversity who’s to know any better? By then of course you’ve got your wisdom, gleaned from experience.
    Good judgement is something you get right after you need it.

  11. An example relevant to this topic is Stephen Hawking, his ex-wife, and the movie The Theory of Everything (adapted from her memoirs).

  12. “Society tells us that women are angels who’ve turned in their wings for the duration.”

    Society has provided other messages:

    A question to think about is why you listened to one set of messages while ignoring the others.

  13. Well, if you don’t like that commercial, then check out these Kia commercials. I expect _these_ to be the grist of another column.

    You stink at football (so give up):

    Run it up the gut (or my husband is weak):
    http://www.ispot.tv/ad/AdhQ/kia-sorento-run-it-up-the-gut

    I wasn’t ever planning on buying a Kia, so I guess this wasn’t targeted at me. But jeez Kia, what the hell were you possibly thinking?

  14. Just remember that this is the message your gender’s imperative is fostering. This is the message that Campbell’s Soup will stake it’s 147 year brand reputation on because it believes it will sell more soup.

    Women may view it as celebration of their new freedoms in a world where they no longer have to put up with men’s weaknesses, but there will also be plenty of men that will watch it in a different way. For them, this will be yet another confirmation that women are effectively obsolete for just about all of the things the men have traditionally wanted from them. The irony is that Campbell’s can capitalize on that POV too: “Buy our product, it offers what your woman refuses to give you out of the goodness of her heart!”

    Come to think of it, plenty of other brands can do the same. In 35 years when electronics have improved, the opening scene here could also be used for the intro to a sexbot manufacturer’s ad offering a new model that fucks you and cooks for you.

  15. @kfg that film was meant to be a ‘man bites dog’ exception for dramatic value. It’s supposed to be a plot twist that a woman can actually do murder and a further plot twist that Bogarde is hard enough treat her as the criminal she is. It isn’t meant to illustrate most women.

    The evo psych explanation of women’s ruthless pragmatism of discarding a broken or beaten man is obvious in retrospect. Women who didn’t trade up didn’t survive, but it’s an ugly truth that noone speaks of in good times.

  16. Regarding the hijacking of brands & the Star Wars franchise, maybe the direction is being pushed by activists and sold to the money men who are actually responsible for running the companies as the new in thing, likely through loaded focus groups.

    I don’t think anyone would trash their own property like this.

    Wifey told me there’s going to be a Frozen sequel – told her I’m not interested in paying to be hated as per Frozen/Maleficent etc.

  17. Perhaps my biggest surprise with women and my erstwhile wife was their utter lack of empathy or sympathy for suffering of any sort on my behalf. Serious injury, sickness, sadness – never go to a woman for understanding.

    The real shocker came when I went through serious health problems and career troubles due to the illness,and lost the “top dog” with buckets of cash vibe due to it all in my mid/late 40s. Sisters who I had been a huge support and father figure to for decades found me revolting.

    I remember going out with 2 female friends one night during that period and letting down my hair about my financial troubles and running out of money for my daughter’s college bills (in her 4th year meaning she had to take more loans, not drop out). Both women were overtly hostile and completely unsympathetic. It felt like they just wanted me to shut up so badly, it was just bizarre.

    None of it made sense until the Red Pill.

  18. ” . . . that film was meant to be a ‘man bites dog’ exception for dramatic value.”

    That appears to answer the question. Where did you get that interpretation?

    ” . . . it’s an ugly truth that noone speaks of in good times.”

    The book was not written and the movie adaptation was not in made in good times. The fact that there were plenty more where it came from rather spoiled the “twist.”

  19. @just getting it
    I too experienced the cold, harsh reality when I was ill. A sick day was a microcosm of the larger issue, though I would not fully realize this until it was far too late.

    Any prolonged vulnerability can be a relationship death sentence if not managed extremely well. Which really means that men are indeed alone with pain, suffering, and adversity. I’ve got one good mate with whom I can go deep but get nothing from family or other friends or women. I’m on my own.

    As an aside, I see some parallels to why social media is so engaging for women. When women say they want men to be vulnerable or share their pain or whatever, but they really just want a way to signal their virtuous nature (image) while maintaining a safe distance from anything that might actually ask something of them or sully the image they have constructed of the chattel (men) in their lives – which, of course, are also reflections of them. All while soliciting a drip-feed of emotional investment from the multitude of orbiters and potential branches.

    When my marriage imploded I was far from a momma’s boy. When I went through a serious health challenge I was actually supporting my mom and my sister and her kid at the time, as my dad had just passed away and the family was in ruin. The ex could not be bothered with my struggle to keep it all together.

    The few moments of weakness I let her into became seeds that she would cultivate into her own discontent. It all just interfered with how she visualized her life trajectory. I went from sail to anchor in a matter of months.

    My pain needed to be packaged and handed to her in a way that made her feel good about herself but would in no way became a burden for her – even if that “burden” was some small measure that may make my day much brighter.

    That was when she found the next branch. A contingency at first. But once there is an option in hand the hypergamy fueled comparisons kindle that spark into the inevitable scorched earth.

    Vulnerability management, which sometimes feels like a part of comfort game but other times something entirely different, is proving to be one of the hardest red pill realities for me to improve upon.

    I tend to either open up too much or I become too guarded, distant, and/or indifferent; ether approach being toxic. Lately i’ve been prone to the latter. I have some lingering concern that the red pill (and the imprint of how I got to the RP) has left me a bit closed off. Something that is aggravated when multiple plates are in play.

    Having to process my emotional and physical vulnerabilities into little nuggets that can be easily consumed by the woman to make her feel the way she needs to feel is just one more burden that has yet to become second nature.

    And I rarely encounter women who are deserving of what still feels like work to me. Their selfishness is so deeply embedded that any kind of comfort or vulnerability feels supplicating from day one.

    My latest, like most women these days, desires to keep in touch with her ex (they still share a pet), and of course play on facebook (I don’t have one). It is no longer whether or not there are red flags, but rather how many and what kind. In these cases my indifference can be hard to buoy with the comfort and vulnerability these women have come to expect.

    Just last night a woman who I have been seeing for several months cited my lack of vulnerability as to why she no longer wanted to continue. Apparently I just don’t open up to her in some way that she wants.

    She convinced herself that she would never ‘truly know me’, that we lacked some ambiguous emotional connection. Even though in the same breath she also felt that our discussions were too one sided about my life. Oh, and that she “Loved me” and just wanted me to be happy.

    Yeah, she waited until the breakup chat to drop that. So my lack of vulnerability, which was really my lack of probing into her life and emotional state enough, was why she wasn’t getting what she needed even though she never opened up to me, including the I love you part, which she saved til the end.

    This from a woman who would almost never initiate conversations, call, email, or text me. A woman who was kind and sweet but had a lifestyle that left very little room for time together. I had to fit into her schedule, plan the majority of our encounters, and apparently read her emotional state from afar.

    Yet none of this translated into some emotional connection or investment on my part that met her needs. She seemed to require a combination of chasing her and laying bare my soul. All while she would almost never express her own feelings or needs until it became some kind of breaking point.

    In the end I suppose I was rather indifferent. I knew she was AWALT from day one, even though in their minds they are always the exception. But I am a bit frustrated just from a learning standpoint. Failing to manage the relationship could be due to her just being cray cray but being that she noted this issue of vulnerability it does cue up my awareness of this weak spot for me.

    Happy new year men of RM.

  20. @scribblerg you’ve touched on something I forgot – everything you’ve done so far counts for shit, as per Briffault.

    It didn’t make sense if you believed the equalitarian horseshit I was brought up on. Fact is, us men have been dealt the best hand in this life, we’ve just let that be hidden from us.

  21. @scribblerg

    Perhaps my biggest surprise with women and my erstwhile wife was their utter lack of empathy or sympathy for suffering of any sort on my behalf. Serious injury, sickness, sadness – never go to a woman for understanding.

    I had one chick who lived with me for almost a year that would actually take great care of me when I was sick. She normally did dishes, cleaned clothes, and cooked as well. Pretty cute too. Unfortunately (yep, there’s another shoe that dropped) she had some deep seated psychological issues that came out when she saw a picture of me with one chick I’d fucked who she felt was ugly.

    What I’m guessing is that up to that point, she figured she’d done pretty well hypergamously til she realized she was one of my better catches. I suddenly looked like a loser to her. She kept doing all the other nice shit, but when would act pouty and angry all night, not talk despite my saying “What’s up?”, then when we put our heads down on the pillow she’d want to drag the issue out again.

    Funny thing is, she kept insisting I needed to apologize. Not only did I never do so, but I instead said calmly after she dug through my pictures without my permission “Well, perhaps that will teach you not to go digging through other peoples’ shit”. After that point I password locked all my machines and safe locked all my important physical documents. I’ve had the same policy with all women ever since, but unfortunately not a one has displayed even the nurturing qualities she did.

  22. @razorwire – hey don’t sweat it.

    What you’re going through is a bitch but this will pass.

    Centre yourself with the realisation that women have to attach themselves to us to live the lives they want to. Doesn’t mean they want to. If you love your job then good for you, but many a man does a job he hates to get the money – see the parallels?

    Resign yourself to the fact that you’ve been sold a lie – you cannot have a life partner who’s got your back. It’s a fantasy that would have been very nice if it were true, but it’s not. The next best thing you can hope for is mutual exploitation as per employer/employee.

    The next point – and it’s the most important thing to ditch obsessing over a woman; don’t listen to what she says, listen to what she does.
    Play back your last interactions in your head substituting ‘blah blah blah’ for her words. What do her actions tell you? That’s the takeaway.

    There is no Hollywood ending where you explain the purity of your intentions, get reconciled and unite in bliss. Can’t happen because she doesn’t operate like that, so whenever you find yourself formulating the speech which will fix it all go do something else.

    Women will tell you they’re not like that, but they don’t tend to think out heir actions – they have the same thinking brain we have but use it to manufacture after the fact rationalisations for emotional decisions they’ve taken, some of which they may not like themselves for.

    For a laugh, have a look at ‘Hello’ by Adele on youtube. A woman trying to reconnect with past boyfriends who weren’t good enough for her and is now trying to settle for good enough. Realise that you’ll be just fine without a woman, it’s them that need us (and our provision & protection) more.
    Funny point – some pseudo-scientist informed the world that women are as attracted to women as men. I think that was meant to put men on notice. But why aren’t there more lesbians – women don’t spend on each other.

  23. This is exactly what I thought when I first saw the commercial. I guess at this point the red pill lens are a permanent fixture, which is something that inspires me in the deepest of levels…

    An internal acknowledgment of progress is one of the most pure forms of validation.

  24. This is something very American, you boys do rely on your mothers. Very much, very blue pill.

    Thinking there is a real red pill Don Draper behind this ad, screaming “Wake The Fuck Up You Little Faggots!”

    Quite different from Star Wars where the fem fuck is the lead. Here in this commercial, it is the little blue pill pajama boy who is the lead. The fem fuck is just there to highlight his faggyness. Thinking ole Don is having a run at these twats, trying to open their mascara covered eyes.

  25. As a guy who has dealt with depression in the past and still has some recurring problems with it, I can 100% agree with this article. Women are heartless when it comes to a man displaying weakness. Once you’re displaying weakness to them, you might as well be invisible to them – only it’s worse – they actually start preying on you.
    When I was at my lowest not THAT long ago (1 1/2 years ago or sth) I had a supposed “woman friend” (I no longer regard women as friends btw., but at that time I did) kick me while I was on the ground. No, not physically, mentally.
    It sure has taught me something. But I’d say it’s not just women – people in general just don’t care – if you’re lucky, your father and a select few close friends/family members do, the rest will just say thanks for the great time while you were cool, now goodbye cause your weakness brings me down. A man is an island, forever. No use crying about – knowing means being able to adapt. I prefer being a lone wolf – it’s not like I’m isolated, but I rarely allow anyone to get too close.
    Johnny Cash – solitary man probably about sums up my attitude.

  26. @scrbblerg ditto

    But beware of sympathetic women there is a hidden agenda I find out what that is and then enjoy the special treatment for a little while.

    As a child I would run to mom with cuts and scrapes just to get tincture methiolate that made it hurt worse than before.In my early 20s i lost a finger at work the wife said smooth move.And having worked with a number of EMTs the female ones were always harsh even to female patients.This lack of empathy really never registered with me until Rollo pointed it out.Males seem to make the best doctors medics and patient advocates,While women still apear to be the best victims advocates who I have found to be useful while I was bagging a body.

    I have been noticing this sort of crap in commercials aimed at dinks and fems for years now.The only upside I can see is the fact that I don’t feel the desire to buy any kias or soup maybe because of this bs who knows.

  27. @Rollo

    I’m a long time reader and first time commenter.

    I saw this commercial a few weeks ago and thought wow, Feminine Imperative. I googled Campbell Soup CEO and found Denise Morrison. Check out her quote from a Forbes article in 2014.

    “The challenge for Campbell Soup has been to keep up with the generational changes and learning the needs of a new market, the millennials. The challenge is to adapt, evolve, and innovate to new consumer demands.”

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/bonniemarcus/2014/04/25/campbell-soup-ceo-denise-morrison-stirs-the-pot-to-create-cultural-change/

    Denise’s goal is to appeal to the female millennial market, which is sadly a majority of career women who view heating up a can of Campbell’s soup as actual cooking and that is too much for some of them. This concept aims to destroy the idea of Complimentary Love because it prevents the man from having an experience where his female can display feminine qualities such as being caring and nurturing to get the man back into good health.

    A recreation of this commercial swapping genders with the same actions would be a worthy social experiment to measure the reactions of people.

  28. Razor, been with the bitch for 30 years now. Rhoosh has got one thing right in his life, “we be clowns”.

    We perform or she heads for the exit

    And you gotta realize that they are surrounded by whores, who are usually losers in their own lives, who fucking never quit bashing on them that they can do better and find someone better and be better happy, cuz the cunts are envious and jealous and misery loves companionship.

    Best thing? Get a dog for companionship and just use the bitches for their cunts.

  29. Judging by the look on his face in the first three shoots she realy did hit him in the balls with that brick phone.

  30. justgettingit
    @kfg that film was meant to be a ‘man bites dog’ exception for dramatic value. It’s supposed to be a plot twist that a woman can actually do murder and a further plot twist that Bogarde is hard enough treat her as the criminal she is. It isn’t meant to illustrate most women.

    The Maltese Falcon film is taken from the novelette by Dashell Hammett of the same name, it’s virtually the same line by line, scene by scene as the book (one scene is left out). Hammett was in World War I, worked as a Pinkerton detective in some ugly places such as the copper war in Montana, also worked as a detective in San Francisco. He had seen more real hardship than any of us. His fiction is quite realistic about women, unlike a lot of other fiction at the time, to be sure.

    I watched that movie on TV in my teens and sort of got it. I watched it in an art house cinema setting at the age of 25 and got a whole lot more of it. It’s one of the films young men should see a few times.

    kfg’s point seems to be: there’s plenty of realism about women out in the larger world, provided a man doesn’t ignore it. The whole “women are wonderful” “angelic” is a mix of neoVictorian romanticism GrrlPower. Just another instantiation of the Female Imperative.

    We’re taught to ignore the true nature of women. That’s why Rollo’s site exists.

  31. I am a woman and as hard as it is to admit, you are correct regarding female nature when it comes to losing attraction to vulnerable/weak men. A woman will only be able to maintain attraction to a weakened man for so long. This is something I acknowledge and dislike about my nature. It takes work and commitment to overcome this in a relationship. Women who deny this truth in themselves will be more susceptible to this character flaw since they deny its very existence. That being said, the Campbell’s soup ad is repulsive to me. But these ads make my job easier as a parent because they demonstrate the sickness of our culture better than any words I could use to explain it to my kids. Ads have gotten so bad that even my 10 yr old daughter can point out commercials that denigrate men and masculinity.

  32. Campbell’s is playing to the FI’s “you go grrl” fem-power aesthetic also serves to reassure their male customers, and suggests a broader warning to the ladies. Strip away the BS and the overt message is this: even if the woman in your life is an uncaring bitch, we (big soup maker) are there for you. This implies to me a warning that women can ultimately be replaced, or at least are unnecessary to make soup. The message to women is he can make his own damn soup and not have to bother you with his juvenile whining.

    Imagine a commercial for a robotic housekeeping tool sold this way where the woman walks out leaving the man with mess that is not his choosing. The message from the company is we’re here to help because she won’t.

    Imagine more of these sorts of adds all of which show a man replacing the assistance of a woman with a product. Imagine these same commercials imply that women have better things to do. A thousand micro messages about disloyalty, lack of cooperation, disdain for men, technical solution that don’t require collaboration, and the low priority men occupy in women’s lives and we’re all set for the active marketing of sexbots if the ever arrive.

    The message of women being replaceable across a range of personal tasks is just shoe on the other foot compared to how men have been portrayed for the last 20 years. There’s no other motivation here except to sell a product. The product being sold is the comfort of reliability, and long term functionality which we are told you can’t find in the opposite sex.

  33. Or, even better, the soup gives the guy a visible boost which segue’s to him having the energy to throw her Jimmy Choo collection and cosmetics onto the sidewalk.

    or better, when she arrives back home, there is a younger, prettier woman in a French maid outfit making home made chicken noodle soup

  34. As a marketing ploy to the current demographics,this says if I buy campbells soup I can throw the phone at his nuts when he’s sick and mentions his mother.Or campbells soup can make me feel better when she’s being a bitch.

    But the marketing research involved doe’s ring true,and the audacity to use this commercial publicly is dissrespectful to both sexes.Thereby promoting some sort of eunic or sexlessness wether or not that is the intention.

  35. Feminism and its controllers have made women completely useless.

    Women know on a very deep level that without men, they are up shit’s creek and the raft has a severe puncture.

    “This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.” – Rorschach/The Watchmen

  36. It’s true that the state of things is normalized with this portrayal of modern man-woman dynamics. They act more like two bros would be acting, and we see the girl heading to work (why is she going to work? to sustain herself, not the absent sort of family that previous decades tv would have shown at this position).

    But the spot sides with the guy. I see it more of a reflection on the state of things.

    (I don’t know anything about this soup brand btw. and what its image is or was.)

  37. @Badpainter

    Yes, I think that’s the intended suggestion:

    “Guys (and beta-boys in particular), if you’re unlucky and get in trouble (or get sick) we know the modern wife (gf in your late 20 today, really) will not be a caring motherlike person to you. Eating our soup is cosy, easy, just like when you go play your video games when you want to turn off the world around you.”

  38. My husband had oral surgery a few weeks ago, I was happy to take care of him and make him smoothies and bring him medicine and everything, but yes, there is something unsettling about having your man down for the count for more than a few days.

    Maybe it’s a hardwired biological uneasiness like Forge the Sky was talking about in the last thread. This semi-subconscious sense of uh-oh – how vulnerable am *I* now? Oh please honey, get it together and quick.

    And I think that feeling leads to hardening – a sense of having to be for yourself in the world now – and that hardening isn’t directly about the man but it’ll translate to the woman’s behavior towards the man. And obviously a day of being sick on the couch isn’t going to lead to that, but this is about more than that, you’re right.

    I think empathy for husbands is actually something that needs to be taught and practiced, because it does not come naturally, but teaching, showing and shaming could help. Only to some extent though. I think there will always be some degree of self sufficient hardening in a woman who senses severe vulnerability in her man.

  39. An alternate interpretation of this ad is as follows:

    The guy was the central point of the ad. He tries to get his girlfriend to make him some soup but she cunts out on him and leaves.

    He gets up and makes the soup for himself instead.

    He is the consumer of the soup (target audience). The soup is “there for [him] when nobody else is…” The soup has replaced the role of his mother and relegated his useless girlfriend.

    The ad portrays the personality of the female character entirely negatively to the audience and her value to the central character’s comfort as being inferior to that provided by a bowl of soup. I’m sensing, if anything, a mocking of the modern woman.

    However, there’s still no escaping entirely from at least maternal female imperative, as the mother is sanctified, and also, don’t we hear just a little “see son, this is what you get with that girl that I don’t approve of…” in the (mature-sounding) narrator’s voice tone? So I suppose there is a third interpretation of the ad as being directed to disapproving mothers.

    All told, I consider this to be an effective ad, and nowhere near the level of, for example, the Kleenex commercial with the supplicating, self debasing future incel little boy on the school bus. If you readers want to gag your way through a truly anti-male ad, go check that one out.

  40. Completely agree with the two commenters above who referenced sexbots, as the first thing that popped into my mind when watching the advert was, “Hey, he’s got Campbells. We’ll then, what the f*** does he need her for?.”

    Unless she’s putting out regularly (not likely) or he is just too weak and/or lazy to get a better woman (much more likely), then this advert is so “in your face” as to truly cross the line and be subversive in a manner completely opposite that intended by the Feminine Imperative.

    Hubris truly does precede the fall.

  41. @Capper – I would agree if the context of the ad was different. What you overlook is that he’s sick and is simply seeking compassion. It would be different if he was sitting on the couch gaming and said, “My mom used to make me soup, why can’t you?” and then she threw the phone at him on the way out. It’s not about male independence, it’s about women abandoning men in a very basic way.

  42. I’ve got to hand it to Campbell’s they’ve inadvertently created a MGTOW commercial. To me, it reads like it’s telling me that I’m making the right decision to be single.

    Still won’t buy the soup, I know how to cook.

  43. Rollo .. I think you got it wrong .. yes you can take it that way .. and be right.

    But what if Campbell’s soup co is telling like it is .. 1) women like your mom are dead and gone 2) your wife is nothing like your mom (and how she took care of ger family) and 3) you don’t need that bitch.

    Personally this will get more men to open their eye’s to our state of the nation .. some how we are expected to be Capt Save a Ho but you don’t get a housewife .. you get a Ho instead.

    More and more men are not signing up for the position of Capt Save a Ho. Good for them!

    Full disclosure .. I consume a can of Campbell’s Soup a week. Most of the time in my rice. It makes a great dish with a cut up baked chicken. Yum

  44. “Women cannot listen to Men talking about or working out their dating/mating/relationship issues or problems. Women reflexively view a Man discussing such issues as “whining” or “complaining” or “bitterness” or “sour grapes” or “well, you just chose poorly, so sucks to be you” or “suck it up, no one wants to hear you bitching about it”.

    As to both of the above principles; when a Male is involved, ratchet up by a factor of 5 the disdain and repulsion a woman experiences when seeing a Male do or experience the above”

    This explains why the chicks hate MGTOW and RP so much, and all of their comments are about damaged (i.e weak) men.

  45. Cow, milk.

    Why set yourself up to pay future (p)alimony to the live-in faux-Mom when you can make the soup yourself for nearly free?

  46. I’d wondered why my wife was so caring when I was hospitalized and then not-so-much when discharged from visiting nurses et al. I’d thought it was just situation fatigue—it was a long illness and subsequent recovery. Now I know: she got a great deal of attention from my care providers—the majority of whom were women. She fit herself into the herd and the herd rewarded her; once the rewards stopped the “is my beta-bucks going to put out” anxiety re-established itself.

  47. A few Red Pill observations…she’s got great game. Whoever needs the other the least holds the most power in a relationship. Finally this confirms for me in a very stark way that my own game New Year’s Resolution is go my own way. Yah, I would love it if someone came over and made me soup…but they have to WANT to. Seeing a man in his jammies incapacitated over having the sniffles and whinging about his mom making him lunch—is not met with a woman’s sympathy or even empathy, but rather her contempt–as in this commercial.

    Maybe she’s running off to meet Chad. She’s a strong woman who doesn’t needs a man—yet still lives with one. The utter contempt she treats him with.

    I was in a similar position around 2 years ago coming out of a bad break up. But since that time I’ve litereally crawled out of that bed of despair and improved my game and my life.

    This sparks both admiration and a kind of hostility from peers who can’t compete so try to undermine me by gossiping or bad mouthing in some way.

    The only way to overcome this is to publicly display an amused mastery—I know what you’re doing….but I don’t care.

    This brief commercial sums up how by even suggesting to a woman you “NEED” something, you’re setting yourself up for a roundhouse kick to the ego.

    This for me would have been a very revealing moment.

    Imagine now she comes back. There’s a few empty cans of Campbell’s soup in the trash. The house is spotless and he’s gone. Dread game.

  48. @Walawala – Sure, until that day comes when you actually are sick and need someone to take care of you. Are you going to have game when you have cancer? Try “game” when you are doing chemotherapy. When you are too weak to get up?

    Sure, this guy comes off as a chode but take it from me, you will be weak at some point. You are human, and at that moment you will be all alone.

  49. Let me expand on my last. When my illness overtook me and I was in the hospital, overwhelmed by it, I was truly helpless in a way I’d never experienced. I felt like my body had turned on me, that it had failed me and that I couldn’t count on it anymore. Part of what happened to me included passing out and getting paralyzing vertigo that had me unable to pick my head up off of a pillow or my head would spin and I’d pass out. I had this moment when I lost consciousness in the ER and came too with that scene you see on TV, a swarm of medical professionals on every side of me, machines plugged in, IVs and other meds being put into me, machines beeping and everyone with a worried look as my BP had fallen to 60/20.

    I think men who haven’t experienced a serious, debilitating illness can’t relate to what it feels like to be truly vulnerable. To actually be overwhelmed physically and to need to be cared for. This will happen to most of us at some point of our lives and guess what? It’s exactly this time when a male friend or brother will be there for you. Women? When it matters most, when their character is tested? They’ll turn on you. Just listen to LeeLee above. She couldn’t even get through her husbands recovery from oral surgery without some loss of respect and a sense of loss and abandonment.

    Fucking children, they are fucking children running around like they are grownups. And get it, LeeLee is probably among the best of the lot, perhaps Eve is too. But listen ladies, and I don’t mean this to be cruel, that’s a fucking joke to hear. Men stand by each other, we see such times as a test of character and loyalty and see how people treat us in these moments as a measure of who they really are. The very fact that you pay attention to your feelz at such a time signals something awful about you. Sure, taking care of someone who is sick and in need of care isn’t easy, boo fucking hoo. Get a grip on yourselves and try being adults who manage and control their emotions. They are just feelings for fuck’s sake.

    But you won’t and do you know why? Because you have so deeply internalized the asymmetry of sexual politics. Some guy will always want to fuck you. There will always be some other schmuck and deep down you know that. We dress it up as “hypergamy” but it’s just plain old narcissism and opportunism.

  50. Rollo again this should be required reading for High School boys as part of their sex education class. We should write the textbook.

    Women vary in their ability to appreciate the suffering of a man and it varies based on their sexual attraction to him. The problem is it makes no sense. If he is a Beta he is an object, a tool or thing to be used, you would think she would be less likely to be sympathetic than to a guy she has the hots for but that is not what we observe! Women seem unable to sympathize or empathize with a man they want to fuck. They can be very sympathetic and helpful to a Beta buck which may or may not be a way to gain social status as an angel.

    But if that is the motivation, why are they so merciless to Alpha men they want to fuck? The only reasonable answer I have seen proposed is the failsafe mechanism they seem to have- find new man to fuck when your man is disabled.

    We know that Hamsters eat logic and shit out new Hamsters. The Hamster demands complete contempt of the man in order to conduct this cold blooded branch swinging Briffault’s Law verifying move from a dying and disabled man. So “contempt” is exactly what the Hamster generates and that is what the men see. Contempt from the woman you love as you slowly die. Count on it. Gives a bit of a different perspective to the whole get married so you don’t die alone trope.

    @KFG: Society has provided other messages.

    The Maltese Falcon, your movie, is from 1941. Let that sink in for a moment. You had to go back to 1941 to find a good example of where society has provided other messages than the feminine imperative, women are angels, and just as good as any man and she don’t need no man either.

  51. The commercial is just more piss in the pool. Despite the sage advice offered at sites like this, it is women, and gov/corp, themselves who are the greatest drivers of the redpill.

    Who wants to swim in a pool full of piss?

    …..Robot….soup…hot….
    …yes sir….coming right up sir…….here is your soup sir…

    Tech or collapse, or both. It didn’t have to be this way.

    A world where women have no financial dependence on men is a world where the nuclear family cannot exist. Constraints keep bad behavior in check and give loyalty a helping hand.

  52. Maybe I’m just looking through the lens of where I am now (fairly early in the red pill transition), but at the end the guy looks like he just woke up the truth and is thinking about how he got there and how to eject that bitch out of his life.

  53. Makes me wonder how many marketing departments across corporate America the feminazis have taken over. Will the next iPhone ad we see be filled with misandry? Don’t think that’s impossible…

  54. Interesting find, Rollo. Fits in well with The Farce. I expect a lot of GrrlPowr types will like it, but as others pointed out this really shows the uselessness of many modern women.

    Meh. Canned soup – too much bisphenol in the lining. I get enough estrogem mimics from other parts of the environment as it is.

  55. @just getting it on
    Great comment. Gospel truth.
    The one hang up I’m having is that my wife makes twice as much as I do. Am I destined for divorce rape nonetheless?

  56. This is the same degree of ruthlessness and insensitivity that the Feminine Imperative expects from, and finds attractive in, men.
    Waking up…

  57. *There will always be some other schmuck and deep down you know that. We dress it up as “hypergamy” but it’s just plain old narcissism and opportunism.*

    THIS!

    Well said, @scribblerg

  58. KFG, nice vid brother,

    Had a slut when I was way too young, a solid 6, that would have done that for me. She was smitten. Couldn’t handle her fucking neediness. She was just like the big bitch mutt I got now, always bugging me for a head scratch or belly rub. I can put up with that from a canine bitch, cuz they don’t fuckin talk, as for the human type, to much work.

  59. Agreed Scribbles, it is nothing but pure narcissism. I would add a huge dose of envy tot hat also.

  60. Howling,

    that link you posted is golden. I call slut switch. Gotta be a bitch writing that. See how all the “right” clicks are displayed. If it is a dude, he’s a latent homo, no doubt.

    Fuck, I read shit like that and just want to hold the fuckers head under water til he wakes the fuck up.

    Women are life support systems for pussy! And after forty, you may as well turn the fucking machine off, cuz that poosy is pretty rancid and the energy it consumes to keep that smelly, saggy hole going is causing global warming!

    https://alexobedblog.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/women-over-40-the-new-sexy/

  61. @razorwire
    I had an ex who was proud of being friends with her ex-husband and ex-boyfriends. She thought it showed her maturity, though I recognized it for what it truly was…she was an ex collector, keeping in contact with her ex’s supplanted her ego and gave her fallback positions both emotionally and sexually. I told her if we were to break up I wouldn’t be her friend. It took two years of ignoring her before she stopped chasing my friendship. Charles Schultz was wrong to have given Linus a security blanket, it ought to have been given to a girl.

    As for the woman who discontinued seeing you for your lack of vulnerability…substitute vulnerability for manipulable. She was unable to determine how to exploit you more than she already was.

  62. I consider my mother fairly red pill. She found Leykis on the radio way back when and would tell me not to get married without a pre-nup. But she didn’t cater to me or my siblings when we were sick. It was the minimum of care, a bowl of soup, perhaps and “you can join the dinner table when you’re up to it.” I didn’t see it as a necessarily bad thing, it helped me never get into being sick and seeking sympathy that way. Even now, if I get sick, I’m not looking for sympathy from whoever is in my life at the moment. I may just not call her for a few days.

    On the other hand, mother is looking after father now that father has been declining in recent years. So there is that. Took me years to figure it out but I now know my mother’s attraction to my father: he’s a classic jerk boy, though with a veneer of Catholic morality, commitment and hard work. Still is, even as he needs care.

    Damn I have learned so much from swallowing the red pill. Mother has a temper, I learned to supplicate to get her off my back, but father, on the other hand, merely deflected it. But he never really explained it to me. So I went blue pill, not understanding him and sympathizing more with her having to put up with his jerk boy ways. It has been an eye-opener to watch them from the red pill viewpoint in recent years. They don’t make women like my mother anymore. They’re unicorns now. Good luck finding one.

  63. Several points:

    1. I tend towards Cappers interpretation of the commercial. And this is also in line with Rollo’s teachings: The point is not to shame women for how they are, but to accept it and deal with it. And Campell’s is actually offering help.
    Even if it would be possible to shame women into being empathic and caring for a weak man by whatever leverage you got, her pussy will not be as easy to convince. Even if she will follow that route, some attraction will still die and the sex will get worse from it. The only way is not to appear weak.

    2. Regarding the FI in commercials or movies I take issues primarily when men are portrait as weak, dumb, hyperemotional, ridiculous etc., because of the possible impact of such a role model on younger and less hardened men. My general policy has become to never ever give any company any money or attention who does transport such messages in it’s commercials. For me such a commercial means “do not buy anything from this company ever”. And I think it could help if more men would follow that route. Money is power.

    3. The other question is how to deal with that lack of female empathy. I think the way to go with that empathy-disparity is to cut off empathy for women to level the playing field first. And from then on you can ask anytime a women want’s to be take care of: “And what do I get for it?” Because of the female nature I’d also advice to have the women deliver first every time.
    In practice this will not even be hard bargaining. The moment the women realizes you will not just do everything she wants, it will come very natural to her to please you first and even build up some as stockpile for when she needs it later. After all that is the natural way of things: Man take care for their future sex and will therefor care for the women who does provide it. There is no reason to ever care for a women who doesn’t fuck you.

  64. @Blue Pill Professor:

    You make a fundamental error; I did not have to go to 1941 to find that clip, I only had to go to YouTube. Similarly, to read the Odyssey, which begins with a warning about how women really are and ends with an example of how they ought to be, I do not have to go to 500 B.C., I only have to go to Project Gutenberg.

    They exist now. They are more readily available now than ever before in history. Odds are you walk around with them in your pocket, but ignore them. Yet their existence is not a secret knowledge, they are on any number of contemporary “Best Evar!” lists, which can also be found in your pocket.

    Go back in time and you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could even conceive of that fundamental error. Now it is the common practice.

    The most obvious difference between then and now is that then some such tale would have been the first story you were ever told. Your time consciousness would have started “In the beginning.”

    Now anything more than about 20 years old is lost to the mists of time, even while it stands right before you.

    And it’s getting worse, not better. I now see young people reporting that they are incapable of looking at social messages more than about 20 years old, as they produce an intense feeling of fear and revulsion in them.

    Why?

    But for the sake of argument I’ll take your criticism at face value and return with another clip, equally well known, only this one is from 1992:

  65. Appreciate the debate has moved around, but back to the advert…

    a) In almost all households, women make almost all the domestic spending decisions.

    b) Hence, who cares what men in domestic relationships think about branded goods?

    c) High-income men, if they watch television at all, watch sports, news, economics and documentaries on their interests. During the ads, they leave the room. They cannot be reached by advertising in pop-culture shows. So who cares what they think?

    d) Who cares what low-income men or women do? They buy store-brand anyway. 

    The aim of an advertisment aimed at female buyers is not to convey facts but to create Good Feelz amongst the female audience. An advertisement, like any other text, has multiple interpretations. Such as:

    1) Ooohhh I hate the girls at the office like her, I’m going to get some Cambell’s soup for my cute Millenial Man at home

    2) Hey, just because I gave into his little Mom-manipulation and made him soup doesn’t make me a doormat, I can still be a sassy bitch

    3) See? I’m a real Sassy Bitch, I didn’t give in to his little Mom-manipulation, let him make his own soup

    and of course

    4) Hey, do you get the ironic back-reference to Traditional Values without which this ad loses all its shock value? So this ad is really affirming Traditional Values as well! (That’s post-modernism for you.)

    Some of these or other interpretations are inconsistent – that’s one difference between an advertisement and an engineering handbook. And I’m not suggesting that the agency which devised this ad thought of those multiple interpretations, nor even that this ad will do Campbell’s business any good. But I’ll bet this ad sends those tingles a-tingling. Big Alpha Corporation Gets Me!
     
    That’s Capitalism for you. If the FI sells soup, use the FI. If Coco The Clown sells better than the FI, used Coco The Clown. Hypergamy might not care, but Capitalism really doesn’t give a shit.

    Mass-market pop culture – exactly the shows that Campbell’s will advertise during – is for, how do I put this politely? Servants and other ranks. Shop girls. Apprentices. Typists and clerks (or “junior marketing managers” as they’re called now). Bored housewives. Cat women. Millenials. It’s like New Years’ Eve, which is for kids, while the grown-ups stay home. Of course we’re going to see horrors when we look at mass-market “culture”: it’s not for us.

  66. @Seven Dials – I didn’t want to get into it but you are exactly correct on who this ad is aimed at. Women make 80% of all household spending decisions and of course this ad is aimed at women. Those who see it aimed at men are simply not up to speed on who spends the money at the grocery store in large part in our societies.

    Your comments about capitalism are funny though. Uhh, that’s how people work, not just capitalism. When we find something that works, we keep doing it – shocking, I know…And one can influence people with certain kind of messages rather than others – OMG, call the cops!

    Don’t buy into the critique of capitalism on offer by our superficial culture. Do note that the advent of “consumerism” occurs when women begin to gain economic power when they join the work force in the ’60s. Do note that the massive spike on consumer debt begins at the same time as well. Do note that women are far more manipulable emotionally.

    Sadly, we see men becoming more pathetic this way too with so much attention on “style” etc. I also think many men feel so set upon and don’t understand why and are compensating by buying “male products”. Witness how many men in Outer Whitelandia are driving around in 8 cylinder pickup trucks to drive to their office jobs. Like watching sports, this is a last bastion of masculine expression allowed them, but it is just an ego buffer.

    Seeing capitalism as the villain is to miss the behavior underlying it and the sociology and pysychology at work. Remember, there is no con without a greedy mark…

  67. The message in the commercial is supposed to be: Buy our soup.
    So, I’d say if they’re trying to sell soup it’s strange because people like to buy a product they associate positively with. Imagine a commercial where the driver enters a bad neighborhood, pulls up to a dilapidated trailer and presents a bag of funyuns to an obese wife and a bunch of screaming dirty children.

    I don’t really see how this commercial would make anyone want to buy their soup. I doubt their “real real life” campaign is going to be successful. But I’m sure it’s the product of lots of deliberation, probably all people with advanced liberal arts degrees.
    *******************************

    Per empathy, I just brought this subject up on another forum yesterday morning in another forum. It has been my experience that empathetic people are very rare in general. Most people try to communicate to get their ideas across, not to listen and understand where the other person is coming from. That’s what empathy is. It doesn’t necessarily require the person is in a vulnerable spot.

    The guy who comes home from work and doesn’t want to get a rash of shit/complaints/tasks from his wife as soon as he enters the door isn’t necessarily in a vulnerable position. But the wife isn’t empathizing. Now, if you’ve been in that particular position before, it’s easier to empathize. I’ve spent time as a patient in the hospital (one big reason I went into nursing, I had a lot of shite nurses), and I spent a lot of time in a wheelchair so I know how much that sucks.

    My husband has never had an extended illness or debilitating crisis so I don’t know how I would act. I think women tend to look to men to fix our shit (even if they pretend otherwise…this is true even of professionals, for example when Mike works with all female crews/ groups and so forth the women defer to him even if they outrank him. He has mentioned this because we both find real life “group behavior” experiments like that interesting…they’re all around if you look for them).
    So, when a guy is in a position where he can’t fix her problems and rather needs her to help him, they are probably less inclined to be sympathetic. But I will say as a nurse I’ve seen a lot of wives who took very good care of their husbands through devastating illnesses. Just yesterday I got a card from my sister (half sister, my dad’s first daughter from his first marriage).
    She made some comments about our card and how great it is to see us and all that, at the end of the letter she wrote,
    “Everything is great here. We feel like the luckiest people in the world. Hope 2016 gives us a better opportunity to see you all!”

    To place the above in perspective, her mother now lives with them because she has dementia and is nearly blind. Her husband has had a series of back surgeries from construction work in the past and is disabled to the point he can rarely get out of bed. It has been that way for almost ten years. There’s a rash of other problems but that’s the tip of the iceberg. But she is always happy, grateful, and takes care of her family without complaint EVER. I have never heard this woman complain.

    So not everyone is a shitheel. Aside from being a fundamentally good person, she has made it a lifetime pattern to exhibit positive behavior, rather than thinking negatively or reacting negatively. So to her, every day is a gift.

  68. A couple of things about the commercial:

    1) They shot it with a ring on her wedding finger
    2) They used a mixed racial couple, with a white woman (the most privileged class) dumping on a lower caste.

    It’s designed to push emotional buttons, wonder what the focus testing showed.

  69. @IAS:

    Interesting exchange. His analysis is largely correct, but like yourself I don’t quite see how he reaches his conclusion from it. Perhaps what he meant was that it can’t serve as a practical guide to modern married man game because of the differences in background culture.

    The story itself is certainly a masculine, red pill treatise of a culture infused with it.

    Where he goes off the rails is actually here:

    “Ancient Greeks were genuinely terrified of sexual women who weren’t controlled by a man . . .”

    Despite being a poster on MRP, this point of view is blue pill as fuck. They weren’t “terrified” of female sexuality, they understood it on an empirical basis.

    “Greek culture was wildly different from our own, and valued objects and honor a hell of a lot more than sex.”

    Right, that’s what a society of men pursuing the values of men, not living in a society revolving around pussy on a pedestal, does. The blacksmith values making swords. The warrior values wielding swords, as that is the source of men’s power. It is women’s values that put pussy on a pedestal, as that is the source of their power.

    So what can a modern man learn from ancient Greek culture? Pick up a sword and use it to destroy the pedestal. Then you can learn to live again as a man among men; with honour.

    In your response you allude to something I find I have to repeatedly point out – the Trojan War did not begin with Paris eloping with Helen. It began with three women having a bitch fight with each other over which one of them was the prettiest.

    Cue Emily to come tell us that that’s unpossible.

  70. @Scribblerg – I think you’re right, the feelings and reactions are not unlike those of a child’s – when your parent is sick or suffering, even though there is absolutely a sense of empathy, probably deep empathy and desire to help in any way possible for the child, the child cannot help but be overwhelmed by their own self centered reactions and responses too, because their fate is tied up with the parent’s.

    I don’t think that goes along with abandonment of the parent or even loss of respect for the parent though – I think it just means that the child is going to be less of a child around the parent. They probably aren’t going to jump into the parent’s lap and chat their ear off and just be carefree with them anymore. They’re going to become guarded, and maybe sometimes selfishly angry and withdrawn.

    There is good and bad to it though. Like – not wanting to have to lead the relationship, which can be nearly impossible to avoid doing when someone is seriously down and out of commission.

    And there is the bad. A lot of bad – like yes, what’s true in the moment is the only thing that’s true for many/most women. Just like my three year old can want to cuddle on the couch with me and the next hour screams, “I’m not going to be your friend anymore!” But with maturity, we can train ourselves to look at the record instead of just what we’re feeling in the moment.

    But what then? What do you do with that, being the childlike one in the relationship? Just be as self aware as possible and don’t get too big for your britches?

  71. Ancient Greeks also widely practiced homosexuality with pre-adoscelent boys.
    True masculinity right there.

    Byeah I’m not going to make this thread go off topic. I actually agree that it’s a pretty stupid ad and your partner should of course not behave like that. Though i think Campbell ruined their brand a few months before this when they had a gay couple in another ad.

  72. “Ancient Greeks also widely practiced homosexuality with pre-adoscelent boys.”

    I will cop to a technical error. The Homeric epics predate the Ancient period. There is no evidence of pederasty before the Archaic period which began the Ancient.

    Will Emily cop to her shaming attempt lie?

  73. As for Greek philosophy and Red PIllness, one could always read the best exposition on Epicurean philosophy ever written, De rerum natura by Lucretius, a Roman devotee of Epicurean ideals, more commonly known in the English translation as On the Nature of Things. For those who don’t know, this work is perhaps the most important ancient philosophical work of all time and contains revelations about ideas such as the Brownian motion of particles and atomic structure.

    Lucretius reveals brilliance on many topics in this epic work, and comments on the nature of sexual attraction. He warns men most of all of falling under the lust driven spell of any one women, cautioning that this will be the ruin of a man. He tells a man who becomes addicted to one woman to sink his dick into as many women as he can until he’s cured of it, to even fuck men – whatever is required to rid oneself of this destructive desire. He is of course speaking of “Oneitis” and how such a way of being destroys men.

    It’s also worth noting that this, and many other brilliant ancient philosophical works, were rejected by Christians as Christianity rose to power due to their heretical nature (and it’s also true that some Christian scholars studied them too). Lucretius and On the Nature of Things were castigated by Christian authorities as “pagan” and when the Serapeon temple of Alexandria were sacked by ravaging bands of Christians, they also killed Hypatia, a great female philosopher and teacher at the time who focused on Lucretius and his amazing work in about 415 AD (along with neo-platonic philosophy). They did this at the urging of Cyril, the bishop of Alexandria. There was a great and growing conflict between Christians and so called pagans, as the Christians sought to stamp out all other faiths in the Roman empire. It was indeed a Hedonistic and materialistic work which conflicted with Christian ideals and dogma at virtually every level.

    Lucretius work was only restored to wide public knowledge by the great effort of a Renaissance humanist, Poggio Bracciolini in the early 15th century, and even then the work was suppressed by Christian authorities due it’s heretical nature (it claims there is no afterlife either). It didn’t ever die completely though and was studied during the Carolingian Renaissance in the 8/9th centuries and was present in monastic library catalogs, seeing occasional references made to it. So, as with all history, it’s not black vs. white, but it’s interesting nonetheless to understand how Christian values deeply affected western sexual mores, shaming them and denying them and any works that presented hedonistic sexuality positively.

    Fyi, if this triggers apologists to try and reframe all this as as been done as a consequence of Greenblatt’s The Swerve and its errors, don’t bother – my commentary reflects all that. KFG, you can stop googling now…Suffice it to say that “the science-religion thematic is complex and contains affirmations as well as subterfuge and anguish” as the amazing Epicurean scholar Catherine Wilson noted in a recent, informal commentary on the subject.

  74. @Razorwire,

    Walawala nailed it. While I’m still a rookie with the Red Pill, one has to wonder if the ex that was consumed with your emotional vulnerability would have had so much interest in that had the methods listed in Ian Ironwoods blog post been applied by you.

    Tried posting this earlier but keeps getting rejected so I’m deconstructing the URL in case that’s the issue. Rollo, if my posts are ending up in moderation please delete the previous two attempts so duplicates don’t show up.

    theredpillroom dot blogspot dot com /2012/08/male-dominance-beginners-guide dot html

    1. Physically dominant
    2. Verbally dominant
    3. Sexually dominant

    My GF has shows disdain when I’m emotionally needy so I’ve learned over the past few months to not go to her for that. Yeah it sucks but few people show empathy well and I no longer expect that out of women, with a few exceptions. I call my sister or talk to my close male friends about that stuff. My sister, bless her, is disgusted by women that try to emasculate men. What I’ve found works better is to apply what Walawla and Ian Ironwood wrote. Rollo and SJF have also written about this and specifically encouraged me to think of myself as the prize. The one who needs the relationship less holds the power. When I demonstrate dominance, leadership and masculinity with my GF she is much more interested in satisfying the tingles than letting feelz get in the way. She is getting a bit more comfortable with me holding the power. The shit tests still come but less often, more so if I allow my Frame to slip.

    Men are shit tested constantly and this commercial demonstrates that. As others have stated it demonstrates more than a shit test. Every word we say can be used against us. Again, I’m a rookie, but the burden of performance never ends, even when we are ill.

    While my GF doesn’t go for emotional neediness she will care for me when I’m physically ill. It’s a bit odd how she functions like that, but it is what it is. If I have a backache, she rubs it out. A headache, she massages my scalp. Sometimes she offers to give me a nice relaxing BJ to relieve my headache. Luckily she also loves to cook meals for me from scratch. She would have criticized this commercial for the lack of home cooked soup. I get more grief from her when I buy canned soup, which is rare these days. She has been like this since we started dating, but in the past two months when I’ve applied some of what I’ve learned about the Red Pill things have gotten much better.

    As much as I can I show leadership. If there is a decision to be made I leave no opportunity for waffling. If I want sex I am dominant with her and she eagerly applies her skills and willingness to pleasure me. In the past I got a lot of this but it was hit or miss because I had not consistently had a Frame, Game or any sense of the mechanics behind this. When out Christmas shopping recently I suggested she needed to refresh her lingerie collection as we browsed Victoria Secret. She was mightily offended for a a few hours but I didn’t budge. On the drive home she fussed and fumed about my comments. When we got home changed into a total slut outfit, paraded around in stripper heels and a minidress for my approval and to tease. I fucked her until we were both sated. Two days later she texted me a photo of the new sexy panties she bought asking me if I liked. In the photo the panties were laid out on her dinner table on top of a dinner plate. I think she got the message.

    What Walawala wrote, don’t be there when she gets home if she is going to be a bitch. Overly douse with cologne, dress up and come home late and smelling like you were at the bar. Even make up a story using dread to let her know you don’t need her and won’t take her shitty attitude. I would go out of my way to make sure the next time she wants to share a meal I would be too busy, then leave.

    Like Cave Clown has written, he is sometimes unsure if he wants to continue his marriage. But his woman seems to be responding better to him. I evaluate my LTR with the GF the same way. I currently am pleased with how things are going when I hold my Frame, use soft dread, lead her and physically/sexually dominant her in bed. Who knows, it could all blow up next month. Nothing is ever certain. I have come to realize women (except my mom and sister) are not going to ever care about my emotional needs.

    Aside from that….when watching my college football team get their asses kicked New Year’s Eve my buddy noticed the warning label on the helmets of the players. He joked that pussy should have a warning label as well. I suggested it should be tattooed right above their box near the pubic bone. Warning: Use of this is likely to cause financial hardship, can result in STDs, emotional confusion and long term manipulation. Use at your own risk.

  75. ” KFG, you can stop googling now…”

    Rest assured, my digital copies are local.

    I used to have a cat named Hypatia. I didn’t consider it when I named her, but it turned out to be a good social sorter.

    I haven’t added The Swerve to my list. Thank you for letting me know I needn’t bother.

    I’ll note that there were know cases of Oneitis that defied the usual remedies and in those cases there was one known, although rather extreme, intervention that would kill it dead:

    Marriage.

  76. Scribbler wrote:

    “I think men who haven’t experienced a serious, debilitating illness can’t relate to what it feels like to be truly vulnerable. To actually be overwhelmed physically and to need to be cared for. This will happen to most of us at some point of our lives and guess what? It’s exactly this time when a male friend or brother will be there for you. Women? When it matters most, when their character is tested? They’ll turn on you. Just listen to LeeLee above. She couldn’t even get through her husbands recovery from oral surgery without some loss of respect and a sense of loss and abandonment.”

    That’s a cold plate of truth. A very good buddy of mine had a serious injury a year ago and one of his very close female friends treated him likes shit and eventually wouldn’t talk to him because of his injuries. He wrote off their friendship and doesn’t contact her any longer. Not having someone, or multiple people to care for you absolutely sucks. When my father was dying our family and his many friends showed up to help bath, feed and hold his hand until his last breath. Not all of us can be so lucky. I don’t know if I will have that when I am ready to pass if it’s a lingering death process. Blaximus and SJF probably will, they are fortunate.

    My daughter teases me and says she will out me in a nursing home when I too old and need care. I joke and tell her I would be kicked out for sexually harassing the nurses.

    Scribbler, I don’t know what to say really. You have has some shitty experiences. Those who have strong families and children you are fortunate to have made it work.

  77. One of the things people say about having no daughters (like us) is, you’ll have no one to care for you in old age. My husband has even brought that up from time to time, though we are happy having only sons.
    My parents were 20 years apart in age, and I was always closer to my Dad. He had a stroke so the last six years of his life he was in pretty bad shape. I tried to explain to Mom how to take care of him (how to move him with draw sheets frequently to avoid bed sores and so forth), but she told me outright she wasn’t interested.
    Honestly, Mom and I had never been close but toward the end of Dad’s life I basically actively hated her because of the way she treated him. It’s been a couple of years and I’m trying to get beyond it.

  78. @Everyone, related to this topic. I don’t want to have kids of my own, and I’m hoping robots for elderly care become affordable before I’m too old.

    Being a bit cynical, I once had an interesting Machiavellian idea of adopting a kid and training him/her to serve this purpose once grown up (apparently a male would be a safer choice). This may even have a high chance of success if you get the kid at a young enough age, but beyond the ethical considerations, humans are too unpredictable.
    So I’m hoping for good developments in robotics.

  79. “I’m hoping robots for elderly care become affordable before I’m too old.”

    My own strategy relies on factors that I believe are more certain and with more personal control over the issue:

    I am hoping to die.

  80. @Roused – Interesting comment and thanks for the words. But let me be clear – self pity is destructive and useless. I just want to make sure that men here understand that they cannot be “men of steel” for their entire lives, 24/7 and that if you don’t find yourself wounded and needing help, you will likely do so at some point in your lives.

    We also come at this from various starting points. SJF notes how he came from a good nurturing family and this has helped him greatly in assembling a successful life. I’m here for those of us who were fucked from birth, beaten, abused, abandoned and products of parental death and divorce – what about us? Are we human detritus? Are we to be cast aside as broken in the Red Pill world? No fucking way. In fact, men most of all need to understand that guys like me and Rugby and others can only rely on men to help us, to guide us, to support us. Recognize that being born into a healthy, intact and supportive family is merely like winning a coin toss – you did nothing to earn it. Those of us not so fortunate did nothing to deserve being so badly abused that I had full blown PTSD by age 8, and have nowhere to turn in the FI dominated world and be respected.

    In fact, so much of the therapeutic world is dominated by women and FI informed values. God forbid you are angry and have some kind of psychological issues – you are labeled as “dangerous” even if you’ve never committed acts of violence. Fuck, anger is a righteous reaction to being shit on as a child or an adult, I only learned this late in life. Men who are doing well are the only chance that men who are struggling have.

    Many men live desperate lives filled with frustration, anxiety, self-hate, loneliness, deprivation and deep sadness but have no outlet for it. Let’s not become Nietzscheans and merely save ourselves. Let’s rally for all men and boys, and recognize that such men really have no help coming to them if we don’t. Just sayin’…

  81. @kfg:
    Most of the population I think is very scared of death.
    I used to be religious but I’m an atheist now and I think I do not fear death anymore (or so I think, not having had a terminal illness etc. I’m not sure I can judge it properly).

    I’m still not planning to off myself or going with assisted suicide (which is illegal in many places) when I’m older. Is that your plan when you are 70-year old or so?

  82. Rollo: you have more faith in the marketing department of Campbell Soup (and the agency they use) than perhaps I do. The department take their agency’s (on a frolic of their own) advice which is then rubber stamped by those higher up and so on. Consider how often an ad which has been seemingly carefully crafted and at great expense has to be pulled because everyone is offended or because it does not do what it is supposed to do.

    This is what, I, (as a non-American) make of it: White girl married Latino loser – maybe he was hot. Latino loser hardly looks sick lounging out of bed on the couch flicking through the T.V. channels. Wife’s a Grade A bitch or perhaps she realises that her husband is hypochondrical. This Ad insults Latinos, Women and perhaps even Mothers as Latino Boy’s mother does not show. Massive fail all round I would say – The Take Away is not that Campbell’s soup is worth getting out of one sick bed to make, but that losers drink it. FAIL

    May I add that recently my friend and I met a young American woman (Southern Californian girlfriend of his son). Talking afterwards we commented on how pleasant she was, and how much that was NOT at all what we had both expected and indeed feared; that expected and feared was something like Ad-girl.

  83. @KFG – An area of agreement, yes! When my daughter was little, I used to tell her that when she grew up, if I hadn’t remarried, she had to build a little cottage in her backyard for me to retire to in my old age. I told her I would babysit her kids and help out and we would joke about it. I was sort of kidding but I was also serious in a way. One of the signals of her alienation to me by her Mom was that at 10-11 yrs old (when the alienation began in earnest) she shut that shit down. By the time she was 14, I couldn’t even tease her about it anymore.

    If my health fails, I will off myself. If I detect the early onset of Alzheimers or dementia, I will off myself. I will not live an institution “cared” for by people who care nothing for me. I did business with nursing homes and other such facilities for a couple of years and it’s simply incomprehensibly horrific to live in that way for me. I’m not talking about high end assisted living facilities for wealthy, semi-well seniors, I’mt talking about skilled nursing facilities for people on medicaid/medicare who have been abandoned by their families. There are millions of such elderly people warehoused in these places, waiting to die and only kept alive to keep the facilities billing the govt for reimbursement for their treatment. It’s inhumane – and they smell awful too. Such facilities all smell the same, they reek of death and it was something that I hated.

    This is yet another topic Christians refuse to discuss – how long should life be extended? Why shouldn’t suicide in such a circumstance be seen as a legitimate choice? I watched my vibrant, feisty uncle succumb to dementia for the last few years of his life and all I could think of when I would see him is that the old Uncle Richie would have told me to put him out of his misery..

  84. @ Scribblerg: have you seen Sarah Silverman’s “You’re gonna die soon” song? I found it funny but I’m not sure you would.

    Those elderly “warehouses” (good terminology) are not what I’m looking forward to either. I’m hoping for a technological solution (like robots) rather than a societal / family based one. In any case it looks like I will have to be financially very well off in order for my elderly years not to be bad.

    But as a stoic, it is not what happens to you that matters but how you react to it, right?

  85. @IAS – Indeed, and as a stoic I think that the appropriate reaction to living a bare subsistence, mostly immobile and tolerated by people fleecing the govt and my fellow citizens for hundreds of thousands of dollars is to whack myself. It doesn’t make me sad, what makes me sad is thinking about being one of those barely alive meat sacks warehoused and waiting to die in anonymity.

    My father and I talked a bit about death during his last 10 years. He often told me that he wouldn’t kill himself only because he was Christian and wanted to be reunited with my long passed mother in heaven. Otherwise, he saw no reason to live – and he was pretty healthy for most of that period. He passed when he was 84, fyi.

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