Ladders & Snakes

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All men are created equal. What you do from there is up to you.

Law 7: Get Others to Do the Work for You, but always take the credit

Use the wisdom, knowledge, and legwork of other people to further your own cause. Not only will such assistance save you valuable time and energy, it will give you an aura of efficiency and speed. In the end your helpers will be forgotten and you will be remembered. Never do yourself what others can do for you.

When I was first introduced the the 48 Laws of Power the seventh was the one I had the most trouble accepting. I should really say I have trouble ’employing’ this law, because I’ve spent my entire life as an artist in some capacity and I’m very particular about the integrity and character of what it is I create. Obviously we have rights management and plagiarism laws to ensure against the more blatant ‘stealing’ of ideas, but a lot of what accounts for taking unwarranted credit occurs in more nuanced social situations.

It’s usually in these social circumstances that the average person makes use of Law 7. It’s hardly a law at all considering how naturally humans will use it. In a purely ethical sense it’s kind of a no-brainer; don’t assume credit that you’re undeserving of, but bending the perceptions of what we base our estimates on is where the real art comes in.

On a personal level, my investment in what I create and how that creation is received is what matters most to me. I understand the want for a quick reward, but I’m more concerned with a cheap imitation of what I’ve created debasing the quality and effort it took to create it. For instance, I’ve spent the better part of my career creating products and brands for people with a lot of money who really had no real investment in what it was I was making for them. All they wanted was a “product” that they could promote and sell.

Naturally the quality and integrity of that brand or product had to be something they could get behind (the horse must at least look like it could win), but not be held too personally accountable should that product end up being less than ideal. That’s a nice way of saying most salesmen I’ve known love a widget if it’s something that sells, but they’re never really on the hook for if it sucks – that accountability rests with the creator.

While we were dining after the Man in Demand conference we had discussion about exactly this dynamic. I make an effort to keep my business endeavors as businesslike as possible, but there are brands and things I create that I will personally invest myself into. I have to be very careful of this because it took me a long time (and more than a few failed attempts) to develop the discernment to know what’s worth putting myself into. However, it is especially satisfying for me to travel to another country and see one of my bottles in the duty-free stores at the airport and then be at a bar & grill somewhere on vacation and see one on the backbar.

I explained to the guys that what I create (and own) are not “products” to me. I dislike that term in that sense. I understand the utility of that word to salesmen; product is an easy unit of measure, but to the person creating that thing it’s a measure of the quality of their idea. To refer to that creation as a product impersonalizes that creation and allows the seller to remain at arms distance should the creation be wildly popular or a horrible failure.

That pride of ownership or the abandoning of it is a convenience for someone only invested in promoting that thing, but on some level it is never really theirs with the same responsibility as the one who created it. So ultimately the noncommittal position of selling, promoting, endorsing, etc. becomes an arrangement of convenience since the creator’s idea is where the ‘product’s’ strengths lie – and also where the real accreditation should too.

I’ve occasionally been accused by the ignorant on Twitter of being dependent on The Rational Male for my revenue. Most of my regular readers know what I do for a living and understand why that’s silly, but I don’t think it’s any real secret that what I write here and in the books is something very personal to me. The Rational Male has always been something I’ve invested myself in for obvious reasons, but I’ve always resisted turning it into a brand per se. There wont be any TRM T-Shirts coming in the foreseeable future.

I’m proud to be responsible for what I do here and I will never be beholden to making what I create into a ‘product’ for others to sell. One of the best things about being in the position I am is being anti-fragile enough to write what I believe is important while still keeping myself solvent on what I do apart from it. This allows me a much greater freedom than needing to write something to stay solvent.

Bargain Debasement

You’ll have to forgive my intro here, but it got me to thinking about a larger point I had in mind about how and why a man invests himself in various endeavors in life. I’ve worked hard to get to a point in life where I can say my personal successes (and failures) are my own and not the result of others’ funding or some fortunate dispensation, but rather based on the strength of ideas and responsibly owning them as the creator. Yet another reason I have a problem with Law 7; for as much as you may gain by employing it you rarely develop the insights that failing of your own accord teaches you. Experience teaches harsh, but it teaches best.

I think one of the reasons men find the popularized, feminist, social convention of ‘male privilege‘ so disingenuous is because we want to be appreciated for the sacrifices and perseverance needed to even have what looks like a meager, hand-out, kind of privilege. An atmosphere of default privilege debases what men have honestly invested themselves in. I’ve always held that women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make to facilitate their feminine-primary reality, but that’s not to discount men’s want to still be appreciated for them.

Whether that’s manifested in financial wealth, personal freedom, status or earned wisdom there’s a fundamental want for an appreciation that is rarely ever forthcoming. One reason I believe many men have a self-fulfilling definition of what it is to be Alpha is because they feel they’ve earned that identification through hard work and playing by a set of rules everyone else should, but get frustrated when their efforts go unappreciated, if not outright exploited. Again, Law 7. It’s galling to see others rewarded for exploiting what you think should be appreciated.

There’s a subset of MGTOW reader/writers who question every man’s motive for doing what it is he does thinking that appeasing women is at the root of every effort. Nothing is a genuinely inspired passion if the end result is women’s affectations. I covered this in Crisis of Motive, but what exactly is a genuine motive in that sense? If the byproduct result of my genuine interests is having sex with gorgeous women and/or a beautiful wife and a couple of well adjusted kids should that then discredit my unique talents and interests in what I do?

What if, after all a man does, he seeks an appreciation that will only rarely be unsolicited on his part? It’s one thing to command respect; it’s quite another to demand it.

Institutionalized Success

In this sense I think what is most egregious about the present state of marriage is that, for the greater part, all of the personal equity a man invests in himself over the course of his lifetime is only a divorce settlement away from being halved for him (if not more so). A man’s personal equity (not to be confused with relational equity) is only one false rape allegation away from ruin. This is the institutionalization of Law 7: that a woman can largely and legally get a man to do all the work and then take (at least half) the credit from his own success – or at least that’s the social expectation.

Granted, a woman can also be on the hook for her lack of character judgement should she pair with a man who becomes a burden to her. There are rare instances when a woman may find herself financially beholden to a bad choice in marriage, but then it’s a situation of that man’s genuine achievements in life and usually an inability to take his burden of performance and make the most of it. For the most part, the role of support falls to the man in societal expectations; women and feminized men are the ones supported.

In fact, it’s a point of shame for men to be supported in such a fashion. Whether that’s warranted of not, it is men who are expected to make more of themselves than what they started with. A needed provisioning from women only puts his achievements’ validity in question. Like it or not, men should avoid the perception of themselves not pulling their own weight.

Doing More

A while back I was asked why the Burden of Performance should be called a “burden” at all. Should it not be a “challenge” or a “opportunity”? All optimist semantics aside, it is uniquely men whose character is judged on what he started with and what he made of himself.

I’m sure equalist critics will want to cast women into the same performance role, but in a uniquely male sense, it is men who are expected to make more of themselves. To be a ‘man’ is to produce in excess of what you consume – thus having the potential to support a family, an extended family, ensure security, give back to his community and/or reinvest that excess in greater endeavors or passions. While it may be part of the Feminine Imperative’s media campaign to popularize the character of the Strong Independent Woman® there is still room for women to expect the best out of a man while being provided for herself. In other words women have both the option to strive for independence while also retaining the option to be provided for by her husband or an LTR. And failing either of these, they retain an institutional right to Law 7.

Men must be independent resource providers, they must make more of themselves than what they began with, independent of dispensations or special privilege. There is no safety net, no other socially acceptable option to be provided for and still retain his being definitively a ‘man’. One of the hesitations I have with endorsing the Red Pill idea of going ‘Monk Mode’ is less about the isolation and more about the motivation men need to find within themselves to better themselves.

We look down on men who are dependent on women. Whether that’s financially, emotionally or physically, there is no option for dependence. One of the primary complaints professional, educated, independent women bemoan is their inability to pair off with a man of ‘like’ (or above) status. They’ll make euphemisms to characterize the men who would be their ‘equals’ who wont date them, but what they fail to acknowledge is the fundamental, root level truth of men’s burden of performance. For all the high-minded hopes of equalism, women’s Hypergamy still wants to filter for both sexual and provider acceptability in men.

Back in 2012 I based a post on Creative Intelligence from a study about how improvisational skills and creativity factored into a woman’s Hypergamous considerations. I wont quote it in length here, but suffice it to say that there is a measurable difference in how women perceive men with a trained or innate ability to improvise in, and overcome, times of adversity. As might be expected a man with a proven capacity to produce more than he consumes – especially when he’s had to come back from failure or misfortune – tends to be a more attractive mate choice that the man who chances into his own affluence.

Bear in mind that attraction and arousal are different sides of the Hypergamy coin (AF/BB), but many cross-cultural studies suggest that a capacity for creative, innovative, adaptive intelligence has been an evolutionarily selected-for socio-sexual trait in men – much less so in women. That’s important for the MGTOW critic to remember, it’s not as simple as a feminine-primary social order dictating men being slaves to their burden of performance. Just as gender is primarily biological, and not a social construct, neither is women’s evolved, Hypergamous sexual filtering.

Filters

Now, with the evolutionary basis of attraction in mind, it’s also important to consider that in our evolutionary past women evolved to take calculated risks in optimizing their Hypergamous sexual selectivity. The utility such Red Pill concepts as social proof, dread, Game, amused mastery, etc. are evidenced because they work with (or sometimes against) this Filter.

From The Curse of Potential:

Hypergamy wants a pre-made Man. If you look at my now infamous comparative SMP curve, one thing you’ll notice is the peak SMV span between the sexes.

Good looking, professionally accomplished, socially matured, has Game, confidence, status, decisive and Just Gets It when it comes to women. Look at any of the commonalities of terms you see in any ‘would like to meet’ portion of a woman’s online dating profile and you’ll begin to understand that hypergamy wants optimization and it wants it now. Because a woman’s capacity to attract her hypergamous ideal decays with every passing year, her urgency demands immediacy with a Man embodying as close to that ideal as possible in the now.

Hypergamy takes a big risk in betting on a man’s future potential to become (or get close to being) her hypergamous ideal, so the preference leans toward seeking out the man who is more made than the next.

The problem with this scenario as you might guess is that women’s SMV depreciates as men’s appreciates — or at least should appreciate. As I outlined above, the same hypergamy that constantly tests and doubts the fitness of a man in seeking its security also limits his potential to consistently satisfy it.

As I’ve mentioned in many prior posts, Hypergamy demands assurances. In fact so paramount is that need for Hypergamous certainty that women have evolved peripheral awareness to be sensitive to psychological and socio-sexual cues that confirm a man’s Hypergamous acceptability to her. Furthermore, so important is this need of assurance that in a society founded on feminine social primacy, the Feminine Imperative will legislate legal institutions to prevent men from misrepresenting themselves as a more optimal Hypergamous choice – as well as legislate penalties that insure women against both Hypergamous fraud and less than optimal mating choices.

As you might guess, the development and evolution of Game is one such psycho-social contingency men refine and use to workaround this Hypergamous filtering; and one that the imperative is still making efforts to restrict. However this doesn’t discount the way men have, in the past, built themselves up based on both social expectations, but also genuine interests and passions. Naturally, if a man is the genuine article and as a byproduct attracts women as a result of it, that might be preferable to ‘faking it till you’re making it’ – but if that’s the route you go be sure that you do in fact ‘make it’ because it’s what you feel passionate about.

Warnings

The primary reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to help men avoid having women’s institutionalization of Law 7 ruin their long term personal efforts and achievements. Many critics want to lock horns with me as to when a man’s Peak SMV generally occurs in life. That’s fine, but whether or not you agree with my accuracy in this regard the fact remains that it takes much more concentrated, long term effort to reach that peak than women’s fast-burn peak SMV. I don’t just mean this in terms of his professional status, but also his maturity, his acquired wisdom, his judgement of others’ character, the lessons learn from the bruises of his failures and near misses.

All of this requires an investment in oneself that simply the having of resources handed to you will never satisfy. That personal investment in oneself, as it should, amounts to a lot of internalized equity – an equity that will never be appreciated by women whose Hypergamy is looking for a pre-made man. Hypergamy doesn’t care about the effort and perseverance required to achieve the status you (should) enjoy at your SMV peak.

I’ll be the first to admit that when it comes to short term sexual selection, the most wanton sex I had was at the time in my life when I was the poorest. As an underemployed semi-rockstar I used hit it with the best of them, and from a purely sexual perspective, it’s true, criminal and Alpha cads will still fuck 80% of women. But there’s more to the worth of a man than just his notch count. Sexual experience constitutes a very important measure of that, but a man should want more for himself as a man, as a father, as leader, as a creator, even as a cad.

Life experience and the benefits that a man should draw from it are personally valuable. In fact, men feel the equity of these efforts are so valuable that men will commit suicide at 5 times the rate of women; and in particular between the ages of 45-49. Why do you suppose that is? What assurances of long term security does the common man have for himself? What is he faced with when the plan he sets forth for himself in his life is destroyed in one precarious instance?

Once again, using the male deductive logic, it may seem a better option for him to hit the reset button than to be faced with having his life’s equity, his largest investment, his creation, stolen from him. This is a graphic illustration of men’s Burden of Performance, a burden women simply don’t face.

300 comments

  1. “Doing More

    A while back I was asked why the Burden of Performance should be called a “burden” at all. Should it not be a “challenge” or a “opportunity”? All optimist semantics aside, it is uniquely men whose character is judged on what he started with and what he made of himself.”
    Check out the book the road to character by david brooks.
    Rollo you have enriched my life so much. I’m more human and decent than I’ve ever been. I appreciate you

  2. I think it’s really, really difficult for women to understand men’s need to be appreciated and maybe by extension thanked.

    I notice my husband thanking me for things I don’t feel I deserve to be thanked for — for example he thanks me for making dinner — I’m a housewife, being thanked for making dinner feels hollow, redundant and maybe even patronizing. It means almost nothing to me, it’s confusing, but I realize that what it is, is something about him and how he would like to be treated, some kind of need that he has that I can’t even fathom.

    Something they tell Christian wives trying to be more respectful and submissive is to say thank you for everything – even thank you for going to work, thank you for taking us to church, thank you for reading to the kids.

    It has always been something that is so hard for me to do because I can’t connect with why that would be helpful or why that would be gratifying. And maybe this is because of what you are saying, as a woman I have never really felt that much pressure to perform, or at least not compared with what a man experiences.

  3. @LeeLee

    You don’t feel the need to perform because you’ve been raised to feel entitled to have a man work for you and pay for things for you. You’ve been conditioned to believe you naturally deserve it because you’re a woman and therefore special. You’ve even been conditioned to believe you are sacrificing by not working and that your husband therefore is in your debt because he’s had the privilege of experiencing the glory of work (what is, in fact, for most men soul crushing drudgery and endless, petty competition).

    If you were to divorce your husband you would be rewarded for not working.

    A strange system we have.

    Your husband should thank you for BJs and you should show your gratitude to him by giving him a lot of them.

  4. @Rollo

    All they’re asking for there is complete and total deference to the vagina. Clearly the grounds for a healthy relationship.

  5. Wives are like snakes; husbands are like their scales that help them move freely.

    The snake doesn’t really care how hard the scales have to work for each movement afforded them, only that the scales provide benefit.

    Best case scenario, a good snake like LeeLee rubs some lotion on her scales, then rolls her eyes when the scales react with exhausted exhalations of gratitude. lol.

    Switching analogies LeeLee, your husband thanks you because a nice cooked meal is equal to you not placing the bottom of the ladder on an escalator while he’s climbing.

  6. There won’t be any TRM T-shirts coming in the foreseeable future.

    . . . Aaww hell, Rollo, just hearing about that possibility makes me want to buy one!

  7. Re: the OP

    In a nutshell – men are beings of process. Women are uninterested in process, they care about results.

    Become a master of process to attain desired results. Don’t expect non-internal sources of satisfaction for process.

    This isn’t just about women either. It’s not even just about being a better, more resilient man. Attaching yourself to outcomes rather than enjoying process is a surefire way to end up unhappy, regardless of success or failure.

  8. @Forge the sky
    “Attaching yourself to outcomes rather than enjoying process is a surefire way to end up unhappy, regardless of success or failure.”
    To me the process is true intimacy

  9. Rollo can you please post a link that has to do with men legally having to represent their optimization for hypergamy. A lot of times when I mention such points to those not red pill aware, they tend to respond to it as hear say. Thanks.

  10. David Brooks? The guy who decided he liked a Presidential candidate based on the crease of his trousers? Why would I take any advice from a mangina like that?

  11. I was reading him because any time someone offers me a book as a form of composure I drop what I’m reading and attempt to the suggested work. I see your point as I’m just started the book.

  12. @LeeLee

    Good. Ultimately there will always be a gap between the male and the female experience, but we can counteract that to a degree by knowing – even if not fully understanding – what lies on the other side.

    “I think it’s really, really difficult for women to understand men’s need to be appreciated and maybe by extension thanked.”

    It’s pretty difficult for most men to understand women’s need to admire the man they’re with. Just some men stumble into being admirable (by a woman’s standards) and it ‘just works.’

    I said something like this last thread, but men’s need for respect is a deep limbic anxiety not unlike hypergamy. For a man in a primal condition, the respect of his peers would have been essential to his very survival – and that of woman to any hope of his reproducing. If we don’t have it we feel wretched at a deep, non-conscious level – it’s an existential threat.

    “I notice my husband thanking me for things I don’t feel I deserve to be thanked for — for example he thanks me for making dinner — I’m a housewife, being thanked for making dinner feels hollow, redundant and maybe even patronizing. It means almost nothing to me, it’s confusing, but I realize that what it is, is something about him and how he would like to be treated, some kind of need that he has that I can’t even fathom.”

    I used to try to exemplify the sorts of behaviors I wanted to receive from my girl. Never worked, it’s a vestige of equalism. You inspire respect not by showing it, but by commanding it (in the sense of ‘he commands respect,’ not by literal command obviously). And the best way to get your woman to be kind to you is to let her see other people being drawn to you.

    It does make me think twice about how she would treat me with contempt, ignore me, etc right when I thought we were closest. A touch of BPD? Perhaps. Perhaps also a demonstration of what she wanted ME to do.

    “It has always been something that is so hard for me to do because I can’t connect with why that would be helpful or why that would be gratifying. And maybe this is because of what you are saying, as a woman I have never really felt that much pressure to perform, or at least not compared with what a man experiences.”

    I’m looking back now and I see a pretty distinct pattern of women not really being able to accept thanks, gratitude, or even basic compliments the way I’d expect them to.

    My father praises my mother’s cooking basically nightly – as a way of showing appreciation for what she does for him. She’s never able to really feel good about that, she often shit-tests him actually (he passes just fine lol). Girls I compliment about something generally blow it off – unless they see it as being a sign of interest from me and they’re interested in me….

    I dunno quite what the whole dynamic is here. I have a vague notion that girls might thrive off of approval rather than appreciation, but I’m having difficulty really grasping what the distinction is. Part of it is that she needs to feel like she worked for it, part of it is that it needs to be dynamic (not rote) and involve a physical or emotional reaction on your part. But I’m not sure I see the whole picture here.

  13. @lee lee I dont really understand, appreciation and gratitude are basic tenants of friendship let alone male female relations

    I was taught, and believe, that by not accepting thank yous or praise you are actually stopping the love and affection from coming towards you and in return you are hurting the other by not accepting their attempts at love

    In my experience please and thank you is basic to respecting the efforts of others. Whether its their job, or their role respect goes further in reality and that is conveyed by appreciation and concern.

    Maybe its just you and the fact that you dont see appreciating others efforts as a worthy of your effort, it may have nothing to do with male or female. “please” “Thank you” and “your welcome” make the world go round…and keeps the peace

    Its a shame you seem to be missing basic appreciation in both directions.

  14. Can not escape the performance

    Every man isn’t meant to have it easier just a betterment of self.

    Honor courage mastery strength no complaining or criticizing or condemning

  15. Imagine how different the world would be if every boy was raised with the knowledge that the only thing you need to be attractive to women is to derive your self worth internally and that any societally defined external “deficiency” can be overcome with game.

  16. LeeLee,

    ” I notice my husband thanking me for things I don’t feel I deserve to be thanked for — for example he thanks me for making dinner — I’m a housewife, being thanked for making dinner feels hollow, redundant and maybe even patronizing. It means almost nothing to me, it’s confusing, but I realize that what it is, is something about him and how he would like to be treated, some kind of need that he has that I can’t even fathom.”

    Great example of how men and women see and react to things differently, and why every man needs the Red Pill.

    I know you don’t mean to, but gawd, this statement comes off cold and indifferent, even towards the man that you love.

    This right here, is what many men need to recognize and understand on a deep level.

    “…some kind of need that he has that I can’t even fathom.”

    Honest gold.

    I express my appreciation to my wife often, for a nice dinner, for doing laundry and folding my clothes, etc. etc.

    But I understand that the thanks is not taken as it is given. Yet I was raised to show appreciation when people…anyone.. does something for you. I say thank you not to make her feel any kind of way, but because it is a part of who I am.

    Hence, I do not expect her to be moved by my appreciation, but I do know that it could be a bone of contention if I never said anything at all concerning her acts. Funny how that works.

    So in this respect, it is almost complimentary in a way. I say ” thanks “, she may or may not acknowledge it, I give zero fucks because ma feelz are forever in check.

    There is just enough ” thank you’s ” on both our parts to subdue the Taken For Granted Monster. But it ain’t that serious.

    You seem to be gaining good levels of understanding here. If I may, I’d say watch the negative feelz your mind goes to upon an act of kindness from your husband. This may be a very tall order because the reaction is so automatic. Redirect and ( try ) to appreciate the sentiment for what it is.

  17. @Rollo, yep, I’ve seen that one going around. Ugh, self recognition 😦

    @Forge the Sky — I really like what you’re saying about how if a man is lacking respect, it feels like an existential threat on like a deep, hard wired, subconscious level. I think women go through the exact same thing when we don’t feel beautiful — and probably for the same evolutionary reason.

    I think you’re on to something with the admiration versus appreciation thing. It means a lot to me when my husband compliments my food specifically and expresses his enjoyment of my cooking. Very different feeling than just being appreciated for having fulfilled my responsibility.

    @Blaximus — My husband really likes your comment. He says that he also says thank you because that’s just who he is. I can appreciate that.

    And I get what you’re saying. I’m not sure if it’s true of me, but even though “thank you” may not produce warm fuzzies for most women, the absence of it could produce discontent and anger.

    Though I suspect that most women who think they are upset about not being thanked for what they do are really upset about something else that they can’t put their finger on — like not getting attention.

    Thanks for the insights.

  18. @Eyes Open December 28th, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    @Blaximus and LeeLee

    I’m kind of clueless in this discussion about not accepting thank yous. Very ignorant and retarded per se. I feel like LeeLee all the time.

    Most of you guys know my profession, but in the spirit of (YaReally’s advice) about not giving personal clues, my “clients” always and frequently give me a heartfelt thank you for the diagnosis and treatment I give them. All the time.

    As I walk out of the the room, I know, dammit, that I am supposed to say “my pleasure” to help you, “you are very welcome”. But I have a real, real problem in saying your welcome. I just feel it is my job to give my all to serve their problems and their needs. I’m just doing what I am expected to do.

    Once again, I don’t have a clue as to my own personality defect that makes me feel and behave this way. I have a real problem with it, a stubborn-ness that makes me feel that I’m just doing my job. And I know it is rude as Eyes open explains.

    You guys are attempting to explain it but I think I have a mental block. Perhaps it is a feeling of unworthiness? I’m pretty sure it is not arrogance or conceit. I know what is expected of me, but I just can’t give it up. It is certainly emotional un-intelligence/ignorance on my part.

  19. For women, the burden of performance used to be child bearing and rearing. Consider the Old Testament story of Hannah, or the New Testament admionition that women will be saved in child bearing. Our society has removed this side of the burden of performance from women, with what will be disastrous results for Western Civilization.

  20. Regarding child bearing as women’s traditional burden of performance consider as well the example of Calphirnia, who despite having landed the Alpha of all Alphas is publicly humiliated for being barren at the beginning of Shakespeare’s play. And yes, I know, old books…. But that’s my point.

  21. @SJF,

    Hey Bruh, I don’t think it’s a personality defect at all. It’s individualistic.

    My only point to LeeLee is in the spirit that marriage is different. It’s 2 people living together and dealing with each other. Constantly. Some things MUST get sorted out for peace and happy’s to reign supreme.

    I’ve seen enough of the nasty, bad side of people in my life. I’ve mentioned that I was raised to acknowledge people’s appreciation and thanks, but after seeing how shitty people can be when they put their minds to it, I really do appreciate nice gestures, or even people just doing what they feel is expected of them.

    If they acknowledge, fine. If not, it’s equally as fine. The appreciation comes with no strings attached.

    But I don’t think it’s a problem if you don’t feel the same. I’d bet a significant number of folks feel as you do. Different strokes man.

  22. @LeeLee’

    ” Though I suspect that most women who think they are upset about not being thanked for what they do are really upset about something else that they can’t put their finger on — like not getting attention.”

    This is why I often laugh at my wife, initially, when she’s upset for..whatever.

    It’s the emotion without definition. I cannot soothe that particular beast, nor do I try. Neither do I take it personally. It’s like a fire that I must let burn itself out, lest it grow to consume both of us. No appeasement, no condescension. Barely acknowledged. No problem.

  23. @Hmmm…Seems this hit a big trigger for you, Rollo. Are you clear that the law talks about things others can actually do for you? Nobody else can do “creation” in the artistic sense for you, it’s axiomatic that such a thing is either your’s or not. But we do many useful things that are not artistic creation. Like selling for example. I’m also left wondering if you’ve ever had a quota and had to sell a product some primadona “creator” hatched that was not that great? Someone has to ring the cash register…

    For me Law 7 is about maximizing my leverage and playing the social game properly. I used to be a guy that bosses stole ideas from and who did deals that others would “share” the credit for, but not so much for the losses of course. What I recognized is that status and credit are never really tallied up accurately in any social situation and that I’d better improve my ability to benefit from my accomplishments.

    I tend to be less overt now and also time my contributions. I’m less “giving” and generous with my ideas and support. I also am great at delegating and coordinating in addition to doing. Timing may be the biggest change in that I now own my desire I have to win social games unabashedly, I realize that just being right or getting the work done well and completely simply isn’t enough for me to be successful. I used to walk around like an under-appreciated guy, now I’m more like a savvy fox, careful to contribute in ways that accrue to me and to create some mystery and a sense of almost magic to what I do. I don’t take credit for other’s work directly but by exerting leadership at the right moments and managing my visibility, I’m often given credit at a meta level for team success and improvements in general while others may have done as much or more work.

    As for LeeLee, can I just say that I appreciate your honesty a lot. I get the sense you are here for the same reason we men are (most of us) – to actually improve yourself, rather than aggrandize a weak ego and to compensate for other issues like say Emily or Insanity.

    I thank women too much too. Consider that corrected and now I know why they act weird. They do like being admired or praised though, but even that should be done less frequently. I was just served by women for the past 4 days and what I started to notice is that the best way to thank them was to deliver real masculine value. I became more mission oriented and also created frames that they delighted being in as I realize that’s what they want, not to be thanked for cooking some food. Like LeeLee says, it’s nothing special and thanks are inappropriate. Any idiot can cook and clean, but most women can’t create an enjoyable frame that they want to be in. I now get that this the most precious gift I have to give to women. They crave it…

  24. I usually thanked my ex for making dinner because she was a SAHM, I worked, so I recognized the fact that I had dinner cooked for me. She was my only wife to date, I may or may not have that situation again, have a woman cook meals for me on a regular basis. I say thank you out of common courtesy. Not because I’m a beta simp or whatever.

    I know women by their nature have to find fault with every situation. So I’m sure they “bristle” at being thanked for something, Big surprise. The only thing worse than interacting with a woman is being a woman. What a miserable life that must be. Imagine a simple scene of some bumpkin walking down to the river for a few hours of fishing, whistling a happy tune. Can a woman ever be happy like that? Evidently, no.

    I get hypergamy, that it has always existed. Very primitive force. Also designed to be counterbalanced by other primitive, violent forces. Never meant to exist unopposed. So a woman needs someone to admire. Except when she doesn’t, when she needs a cad, a lousy guy to wallow with. Which will she need tomorrow? Who can say?

    I don’t give a shit about women and their issues. In person I am kind to them, always will be, but I just don’t care anymore. I am paying in full for the lousy person my ex is. I have nothing more to give to a woman in that realm. She wants to run off to some other guy, pack your bag and git. Don’t care who she admires or who she wants to wallow with.

    Hypergamy, hypergamy, I get it, but it’s always been opposed by other forces. Just sitting back and acquiesing to it, you can’t run relationships or a society that way.

  25. Spot on, as usual. I wish I’d known about the burden of performance 20 years ago. And it is a burden because women have no commensurate burden themselves. Yes, they need to stay attractive and feminine to keep a man after the peak, but provided she does that it’s easy street. A man must avoid becoming a beta for all his days or suffer the mental and emotional consequences. And yet the whole of our American society not only ignores this truth, it actively propagandizes to hide the truth. No matter how much a man personally succeeds, he is merely a provider of AF or BB in a woman’s psyche. Every boy should be taught to follow and pursue his own passions, so that whether he is rich or poor he stayed true to himself and can take pride and solace in his integrity.

  26. @ Rollo

    Once again an amazing post.How do you find the time?Where did I leave that damn dictionary?

    My wife and I have been legally married 34 years.In that time I have been the primary provider ie; food shelter clothing transportation emotional support medical expenses ect.

    Have started many small business ventures and carried three to fruition.This required a great expenditure of time and attention,also much sacrifice of comfort and non necessities.

    When a man masters a trade or skill and then markets this trade some things happen if he is successful one is he has to give it away to keep it by teaching others.This is also useful as duplication of effort in opposition to rule#7 always give credit where it is due and always except responsibility when things go wrong.Something I picked up in wildland fire fighting is a planning meet and after action review where we we discuss the what why when and where but never the who.

    Maybe 10 years or so back after an episode of complaint I told my wife look I am old tired and burnt out if you can find a younger richer man go with my blessing.This is as good as it gets so enjoy,she is still here.

    Some respect from time to time is like a drink of ice water on a hot day.If a married man falls for the admiration of another woman he gets cut in half or worse.But it is still this thing that is missing after 34 years of farts and smelly socks etc.

    I often think back to my bachelor years traveling partying lots of fine chics fun times ,wish i could go back after a hard day,instead of going home to hear about hers sh/T wtf.

    Upside is got to go fishing with my son yesterday catch the limit ,freeze asses off ,discuss red pill philosophy man stuff ,it was righteous.Like Iron Joe Bob.

    Anyhow this inner value and strength has to be earned you can’t fake it,got to run that marathon yourself. Then look back with no regrets and know it was and is you.

    She says behind every good man is a woman,way behind she says.
    Before i criticize I walk a mile in there shoes if they get mad they’re a mile away and barefoot.
    A good woman helps her man spell his response without any thanks.

  27. What an engaging discussion. Although I’m in a fog as what it is all about. Busy day at work.

    Almost as if Blax is on one shoulder and Scribbler is on the other shoulder saying how to do things the right way for the woman/women.

    I just got off the phone with my mother in an engaging discussion about a myriad of things. As we ended the discussion after a few false ends, she said “Thank you for calling”. And I said some thing like “Yup, talk to you later”. As I type this I realize l love her as a fantastic, wonderful mother this past 54 1/2 years. But I can’t ever recall ever telling her I love her and thank her profusely for everything she has done for me–which is a hell of a lot. Yes, I’m clinically retarded in that fashion. But she has a profound sense that I love her and I give her emotional support by just being an excellent child that never “fucked up” much of anything in life. I’m a by product of her love only a mother can give. It is profound mutual respect that doesn’t need to be verbalized. It is always there. It works.

    I have no idea what that all means. But I’m striving to.

    Blaximus, I sense you and I know what it means to be self-less to our spouses in the Golden Rule kind of way. I do things in a non blue pill way for my wife and children and I don’t begrudge a minute of it ever and don’t need reassurance that I am a good man. I do it with a red pill lens and will continue to do so, even if the family blows up relationship wise tomorrow.

    ScribblerG, excellent insight into giving the relative(s) woman what they need as a gift of the masculine presence. I suppose demonstrate, don’t explicate is what it boils down to. Give them masculine value, indeed. I can sense that when I have failed in woman’s eyes (and pretty much only as it relates to one woman in particular–the spouse) it was when I wasn’t delivering the masculine value that Hypergamy expects. Once again, nice insight.

    And I cosign your words to LeeLee. Admiration for her complementarity mindset in her relationship with her husband and with the masculine in general.

  28. I love women. Can’t help it. It will never change.

    A man must take care to always put himself first, and by ” himself “, I’m speaking of what I consider to be the Total Man. It’s easy and understandable that we males can get sidetracked in our self missions by women. there is a strong, natural pull towards the feminine.

    A man building himself FIRST will encounter less problems from women as a whole. I know, easier said than done, but it is imperative.

    In the current society we find ourselves in, it is important that men become so self reliant that they are not driven or overly influenced by the dictates of society. I’m not speaking of getting tatted up and donning a Harley while wearing ” colors ” ( although that’s not completely out of the question ), but striving to have the highest measure of self reliance one can muster. Always guard against outside influence that is not properly vetted, to insure that that influence does not conflict with your self interest. If it does, REJECT it.

    Women can only exert negative influence over us if we agree and go along with it. We don’t naturally have the resistance needed to resist because society has beaten it out of men routinely. So the resistance must be instituted by each individual man and nurtured like a sprouting seedling.

    It is not wrong to want women. There’s nothing evil in the want of a wife and/or family. It is not inherently Beta to do so. But you wouldn’t jump out of an airplane without a chute, right?

    Understanding trumps anger, always.

    Just like any relationship you might form, not everyone is conducive to forming a real, lasting, satisfying relationship of any kind. We can’t force it either. A man must learn to identify his needs and requirements, and this takes time, thought, work, failure and successes.

    Useless Anecdote #23283 –

    I had a chick friend who was very, very sexy and gorgeous. She was very feminine, and she made me feeeelll good, lol. She still ranks in the top 5 of the Blaximus all time greats.

    But.

    She was a hustler. She worked on Wall St., and that was a good place for her attitude and aptitude. She had a gamblers heart. Although we never had an argument, always got along famously, greatly enjoyed each other, I knew deep down that we would never work due to her mindset. regardless of how we liked and respected each other, if any woman was gonna play me out, it would be her.

    And there would be NOTHING I could do to prevent it short of a lobotomy.

    So I had to keep looking.

    A man must always work his plan. Formulate, adjust and work your plan. For the most part, women are interchangeable for the single man. There is no ticking clock in your head. If it is, blow it up.

    Your number One mission in life is constant self improvement. Big steps, small steps, whatever works best for you because it is all about you.

    When you build “you”, they will come. Let them come. Keep building. Look!!! They’re qualifying and jumping through hoops of fire!!! Let ’em. Keep working.

    And when you ” tag ” one, keep working. Never stop. The world outside of your door will never give more of a fuck about you than you give about yourself.

  29. SJF,

    True story –

    When my Dad was in his mid 40’s, I started hugging him. We’d never hugged before that. Just wasn’t done. So I’d just walk up to him and grab him. Initially I got resistance. lol.

    Same with my Mom. I couldn’t recall being hugged when I was growing up. Not by her. So I started grabbing her too.

    Lately I’ve started hugging everyone that means anything to me.

    Why?

    I’m not sure. My ulterior motive is that I want to communicate that I care deeply.

    I’m not clear where this came from. One day I may reflect to try and figure it out. Or not.

    PDA’s. Lol. Guilty as charged.

  30. @Blax

    “This is why I often laugh at my wife, initially, when she’s upset for..whatever.

    It’s the emotion without definition. I cannot soothe that particular beast, nor do I try. Neither do I take it personally. It’s like a fire that I must let burn itself out, lest it grow to consume both of us. No appeasement, no condescension. Barely acknowledged. No problem.”

    She pings off YOU to see how she should feel. She has emotions about lots of shit and she knows it. If you think it’s no big deal, even as it’s clear that you’re actually listening to some degree, she’s relieved and grateful you showed her that.

    Of course, you need to care enough to actually flip out if it’s something serious. Then she will trust your judgement.

    Took me like 15 months of agonized listening to figure that one out lol.

  31. @Striver

    Hypergamy is designed to find satisfaction. It finds satisfaction in a dude who’s a ruthless murderous motherfucker, who won’t hesitate to manipulate the medicine man or tear out an insubordinate bastard’s colon.

    How well could such an instinct be satisfied in a world where a punch can be a felony? Where a whimpered ‘no’ can stop his amorous advances cold, or else chain him for decades? Where any man who has a hope of being BB is prohibited from satisfying the least part of the vicious alpha fantasy?

  32. @Blax

    “Lately I’ve started hugging everyone that means anything to me.
    Why?
    I’m not sure. My ulterior motive is that I want to communicate that I care deeply.”

    Perhaps you have achieved the goal of “A man building himself FIRST”, “what you consider to be the Total Man”, perhaps, yes, you are a man in full. (And paradoxically you are not currently foolish enough to be seeking a completion in life.)

    You “have“. So you are not afraid to give a metaphorical hug.

    I actually felt that same feeling toward my mother as she arrived at our home for a recent holiday party with her children and grandchildren. A hug given like I meant it.

    Will all due respect for all those not getting laid with admiration and respect from a good woman, Blaximus’ comment @December 28th, 2015 at 10:38 pm is an example of a guy that is getting some. Sorry, guys but my read between-the-lines-sense senses that. Props for the intelligent commentary Blax. I wish I could go back and re-read one of your old comments months ago about what a guy should do which was very inspiring. Can’t recall which one, but it was good.

  33. @Scribblerg
    “the best way to thank them was to deliver real masculine value”
    Holy hell that’s beautiful

    @Blaximus
    “Never stop. The world outside of your door will never give more of a fuck about you than you give about yourself.”
    Self reliance is the best antidote to all primal failings of the society we live in.

    @Forge the sky
    “How well could such an instinct be satisfied in a world where a punch can be a felony? Where a whimpered ‘no’ can stop his amorous advances cold, or else chain him for decades? Where any man who has a hope of being BB is prohibited from satisfying the least part of the vicious alpha fantasy?”
    Animals sports and nature? Hell that’s a grand thing to ponder yet depressing when spoken aloud verbatim.

  34. These parts seem almost clairvoyant to the direction our nation is pointed, but not to say the primary elements haven’t always existed:

    “Furthermore, so important is this need of assurance that in a society founded on feminine social primacy, the Feminine Imperative will legislate legal institutions to prevent men from misrepresenting themselves as a more optimal Hypergamous choice – as well as legislate penalties that insure women against both Hypergamous fraud and less than optimal mating choices.”

    ~AND~

    “All of this requires an investment in oneself that simply the having of resources handed to you will never satisfy. That personal investment in oneself, as it should, amounts to a lot of internalized equity – an equity that will never be appreciated by women whose Hypergamy is looking for a pre-made man. Hypergamy doesn’t care about the effort and perseverance required to achieve the status you (should) enjoy at your SMV peak.”

    The latter seems to be a driving component for the oh-so-common divorce at middle age. Especially among the couples that got married in their 20s, kids graduated or close to graduating high school. Prime time for a female prime level-up in the market place. Imagine how much easier it would be on a son especially, if he was armed with the knowledge to understand why his mom “truly” filed.

    Great work Rollo.

  35. If Law 7 wasn’t rigorously enforced, hell, there’d be no university professors (European kind, heads of department etc.)

  36. Warning men to be aware of involving their romantic interests in personal projects or businesses is salient advice. Working with or relying on a woman’s support for any venture is asking for drama.

    Here’s a scenario I’ve faced with angry girls. They passive-aggressively try to disrupt projects or events I’ve created by not showing up when they’ve promised to help, by agreeing to help and then pushing various buttons and when I react use that to threaten not to follow through on some critical element to a project.

    It’s this idea of a woman ingratiating and inserting herself into my world, trying to offer help, then withdrawing that help or support as a way of getting back at me for some perceived slight.

    It’s a manipulative, sad, last ditch effort to try to control me or gain my attention.

  37. You have to laugh at women when you hear the equality argument and the burden of performance that is actually placed on men (but not women). I always see women as “large children” because while they want to play the role of a man they have no idea what it truly takes to be the man (they never will, either).

    The feminist movement over the last three decades has now placed women in what should be the roles of leaders (political, business, etc…). Like any new position, you can see women making “rookie” mistakes because they want to be leaders (equal, like men) but it’s all new to them…they have no clue.

    Plus, with women, it’s always “feelings”, first. We can all see the disaster that ensues when they make decisions as these new leaders (you only need to look to the EU and Merkel for one of the biggest mistakes made with the open borders policy).

  38. @SJF @Scribblerg, thanks so much for the kind words. It means a lot. I love this blog and the discussion here, it helps me understand myself and my friends better, and understand my husband’s world and what he goes through.

    I’ve always felt like there was something just very off about most relationship advice and analysis, like an agenda that was a wall blocking off the full truth, or making “experts” read off this one script, and that’s frustrated me my whole life not because I’m an exceptionally moral person but maybe because I’m a romantic person and it felt like the wall blocking the truth was also blocking true intimacy.

    So this blog is very valuable to me as a rare tool to break down the mental and ideological walls that would otherwise stand between my husband and I.

  39. “the same hypergamy that constantly tests and doubts the fitness of a man in seeking its security also limits his potential to consistently satisfy it.”

    This.

  40. There’s so much here that is worthy, from Rollo’s post to the comments.

    Something that hit home for me:

    @Scribblerg, your comments about being unappreciated (what guy has NOT felt this at work?)

    I am just “post-mid career” in my career (a few years from retirement if I want) within my organization. A long time buddy of mine that I have swung around to Red Pill, is still trying to work “within the system” based upon the Old Books. He’s a white guy who’s literally worked twice as hard as many minorities who have surpassed him, and he has been your “Average Unappreciated Chump Employee” as I was near the mid point of my career. We both are making around $150k, but I got a bit out of the mix a few years ago, took a slide sideways, and one step down (at around the same pay), left the rat race of the org and now telework more, travel less (for work) and am developing my youngest kids a bit better than I did my oldest.

    My friend, let’s call him “John”, is still working 60 hour weeks, doing nearly 2 hour commutes each way, all to support a somewhat ungrateful SAHwife, their kids, and basically his wife’s entire family, emotionally if not financially along the margins. John has plowed through more work, more projects, has a Grad degree (in a position that does not require it), been in several mid-level positions that are key to upward mobility, yet has watched white female after white female (and a few black women) come into the org and move right past him over the years.

    I don’t know the exact answer, but I suspect that, quotas, gender and generally affirmative action aside, the “Rules of Power” (like Number 7) should always be in play and that once someone is making a CERTAIN level of income (I use myself as an example), and you are not going to move up for whatever reason–STOP CONTRIBUTING, STOP PLAYING THE GAME. STOP BEING A CHUMP. This doesn’t mean don’t do your work, or fail to perform where necessary to the job–but like beta boys dating, all this stuff about “if I just stay late again, or just do this extra project”.. FUCK IT. Take the cash, work steady, melt into the carpet, reduce risks and liabilities at work (being a non-supv), and raise your kids, pick up hobbies like BJJ, hunting, whatever.

    Now that I have for the last few years, been in a somewhat lower position, yet still in a senior “worker” position, I see things with new perspective. Other than locking down good pay–most of this company/organization stuff these days is just shit. It’s not like MadMen (where even there they stole each other’s ideas)…the OLD BOOKs do not apply–merit isn’t going to get the boss to call you in and give you a raise. HR will ensure women are promoted up no matter. So play the same game. Retreat, reload and stop being a chump.

    My friend John is teetering on the edge of one, what I believe will be, LAST disappointment with a promotion he is very much due–and after he doesn’t get that, I believe he will go full Red Pill at work. Office Space is funny to men and women for different reasons (and even men for different reasons). The writers were on to something.

  41. @Enrique, that’s a friend field report I’d like to read more of.

    I broke 90k this year (that includes side work and passive income I’ve been building alongside my 5-9). Been earning more each year and getting bonuses. Yet, my wife made a comment in passing a few months back about my intentions with work at that “dead-end” job. She used this term not in a malicious way but just because I had previously mentioned that I may not be able to move up into a VP or upper-management position. But that didn’t mean I wouldn’t get pay raises, which I have.

    A husband’s ladder can never extend high enough. Can’t blame a venomous snake for being born with venom though. It’s in a women’s nature to want to maximize resources, even when the resources she has to offer are depreciating in value.

  42. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates — brilliant apex geniuses and techno-gods..

    Uh.. no.

    Wozniak
    Ive
    Allen

    THEY built this world.

    Jobs and Gates were simply masters of Law 7

  43. @newlyaloof

    “It’s in a women’s nature to want to maximize resources, even when the resources she has to offer are depreciating in value.”

    It’s in a woman’s nature to be a prostitute and have no respect for her provider John(s) whom she’s manipulated into exclusive prostitution contracts (aka marriage).

    Don’t be a John. Don’t enter into exclusive prostitution contracts.

  44. @rollo

    Last two paragraphs – wow, man.

    Any man who can draw parallels to my recent life, 20yr marriage, kids of various ages, career, good decisions, success.. then to see it crushed and stolen, not just from the ex, but the state, and those who have been enabled by the state, then have that followed up with the kids being taken and given to the perp, binding orders to remain an indentured servant to this deviant who set it all in motion, all while being accused by this psychopath of various forms of imagined abuse, and exacerbations (with no penalty) of all the my faults.. cannot deny that he considered hitting the eject button on life.

    Just want you to know, that while I found the manosphere, ironically, about 1 month before the shit went down, I found your sight nearly immediately after. Your teachings are great, though I think some of it is a bit overly didactic.. but more importantly, your mission statement, your recognition and explanation of the problem(s), and most importantly, the shared experiences of the many men who collaborate here because of your writings.. made me not only strong enough to carry on, fight the fight, and realize that I was not alone, but it made me realize that what is happening to me is making me stronger in an anti-fragile sense.

    This has meant everything.

  45. Yes, I will be watching (and reporting) my friend John’s situation. He, like me, is one of those paper Alphas (former military, etc), who got caught up in the World of Beta.

    I always think of Rollo’s post about “last days” or end days, whateve it was called. I mean, it speaks SO MUCH TRUTH. Not saying to be a flake, loser or just do nothing for your life, not at all (if only we ALL could be Tesla), but every man should take inventory of where he is at at key points in his life.

    Because if you think, for a SECOND you are going to be some Eight is Enough, power dad with your entire tribe, generation after generation, lying in your hospice, surrounded by your loving wife, gently sponging the sweat off your cancer-laden body, with your daughters (and their sons) so respectfully weeping at the “Loss of a Great Man…the Patriarch”…with teary eyed tributes to special moments and insight everyone in the family learned from you over the decades, with your boss “on the other line” phoning in that you’ve meant so much to the company over the last 20-30 years (and coworkers waiting in the waiting room, wanting to show respect)—you’ve watched too many movies.

    You and your “work”, your contributions, your ‘value” will never be respected. Only by you, and perhaps a few RP friends. Cultivate your own heroic character for the sake of your own Odysseus narrative. Be your own hero, the star of your own movie, of YOUR life, lived for YOU. Others should be additions, not subtractions to your journey.

  46. ” … my “clients” always and frequently give me a heartfelt thank you for the diagnosis and treatment I give them. All the time. As I walk out of the the room, I know, dammit, that I am supposed to say “my pleasure” to help you, “you are very welcome”. But I have a real, real problem in saying your welcome. I just feel it is my job to give my all to serve their problems and their needs. I’m just doing what I am expected to do.”

    This can also be a way of validating a context, rather than with respect to the specific act, in the sense of the “thank you” meaning something like “I acknowledge that you are an equivalent person of value who has chosen to perform a job on my behalf, and not a slave who is obligated to serve me”.

    The negation of masculinity that has been ongoing for quite some time can also make men uncomfortable in such situations, and leave them without a basis for analyzing their reaction.

    On the other hand, at least subconsciously, a woman wants to serve her Alpha as his slave, and to be appreciated for being a good slave. (This only works if she receives this from above, from his completely and reliably dominant frame.)

    And when a woman is in the workplace, instead of at home with her legs in the air or in front of the stove wearing an apron that doesn’t quite reach her butt, overlapping and incompatible inputs and effects can create confusion, or worse.

    You can pretty much find out everything about your relationship simply by patting your woman on the head while saying “good girl”, and then observing her reaction.

  47. The sugar is that even at 44, I feel reborn. For the first time in my life since age 15, I’m not wrapped up in some woman/girl. I’ve stated before that I had a very red pill upbringing from my naturally red pill father. But there were lingering blue pill messages from my mother (who is quite an impressive and traditional woman), sisters and large family of aunts, etc.. that skewed the core understanding. My father never spoke directly about it, his tutelage was all by example, which would have been great had I been paired up with real women like my mother, who understands the complementary equation. Combined with my raging hormones, though I mostly had dominion over my women while things were good, I fell into the many traps of blue pill thinking time and again (not just with the ex wife). Invariably, after being dumped, an improved woman/girl would show up within a few weeks of my writhing to make it all better. A glutton for punishment, I would again fall into the same pattern of perceived dominance, with underlying chumpism, slowly capitulating to what I thought was her resistance to my dominance, but what I understand now to simply be her innate hypergamy, and ever-escalating shit testing.

    Now, it’s all clear. And now, rather than try to figure out how to ‘make it work’, I can finally *finally*, just make me work, and let the chips, and the women, fall where they may.

  48. I was reading Tam’s commentary on Star Wars TFA in the last thread and I got to thinking about how Lucas’s original, inspired work of SW New Hope was likely his magnum opus as a creative man.

    For the most part, even the prequels were an extension of that creative passion, so Lucas “dent in the universe” of his life will of course be the Star Wars creative franchise.

    But now the FI (via its media arm Disney) has assimilated Lucas’s creative masterpiece if not his life’s legacy; and all for the pittance of $4B. Now the FI is free to debase his greatest work(s) with its graffiti and claim authorship of it, going so far as to rewrite a cheapened imitation of the original.

    THIS is a meta example of the FI employing Law 7 like I describe here. Get greater men to do the work, claim all the credit. I understand the gravity and necessity of this being a law of power, but just because you are uncomfortable with using a law doesn’t make you immune to others using it against you.

  49. The negation of masculinity that has been ongoing for quite some time can also make men uncomfortable in such situations, and leave them without a basis for analyzing their reaction.

    When I was taking my leave of Sam Botta after our dinner in Vegas at the MiD conference, he told me “I appreciate you”.

    I’ll admit it sat kind of awkward with me then, but not now. It’s odd that so trivial a thing would make me think of new-agey, touchy-feely flim flam rather than an honest expression of gratitude, but this is how we’re conditioned as men – to take any props as being insincere by default.

    I had dozens of men whom I’d met for the first time at the conference come up to me and thank me for what I’ve written and how it helped their lives for the better. I genuinely appreciate that and I’m honestly humbled by it, but I’ll admit to being unused to having men praise, admire or just thank me for helping them to such a degree.

    Something to consider in the larger scope of things I suppose.

  50. “good dinner tonight”

    NOT

    “thank you for dinner”

    approval not appreciation

    and only say it if you mean it…

    I only thank her if she went over and beyond to do something kind for me

  51. @LeeLee

    I think a good theory as to why women are generally more hesitant/resistant to receiving compliments or words of appreciation might be that their natural, more Machiavellian orientation to the world interprets these as ‘loaded’, that the giver of the compliment/words of appreciation ‘wants something’. Especially when it’s a man….

    In other words, women might be more prone to believe there are strings attached, since they themselves would most likely never give a compliment or outward words of appreciation without ‘strings attached’, without some type of objective or end in mind – even if that end is as simple as ‘goodwill insurance’ for future security.

    From personal experience, I can recall as a kid and young man that often when I showed my mother affection out of the blue, gave her a hug and kiss and told her I loved her, she would react defensively and say “WHAT DO YOU WANT?” As if it had to be some type of transaction and couldn’t just be exactly what it was: me showing appreciation and affection to my mom for just being her.

    I’ve also had a couple of girlfriends react in this manner, too. I only brought up the mom example to show that it’s a phenomenon that might extend across the spectrum of male/female dynamics…

  52. you thank people who gave you something you NEED… Basic power dynamic here people

    I don’t thank my maid for cleaning the floor I tell her the floor looks nice

    I don’t thank the kids for cleaning their room I tell them the room looks nice

    same thing

  53. I do not auto-condiment the entree of my life with the salt and pepper of “please,” and “thank you.” They are somewhat exotic, oriental spices, used where and when they actually compliment the dish.

    Someone like Lee Lee, rather than resenting them, would savour them for as long as she could and treasure their memories for the rest of her life. They would be to her as citations are to a soldier, recognition by one’s superior that service beyond the expected had been rendered and that it was appreciated.

    When I was just a wee laddie, there were still those employed by business who understood that it was their civil role to thank me for doing business with them, and mine, should the exchange have been transacted with like courtesy throughout, to say “You’re welcome.”

    But since that time we have become a nation bowing and scraping to checkout girls in our service for deigning to look up from their smart phones for a moment and do the job for which they are getting paid.

  54. “I think one of the reasons men find the popularized, feminist, social convention of ‘male privilege‘ so disingenuous is because we want to be appreciated for the sacrifices and perseverance needed to even have what looks like a meager, hand-out, kind of privilege.”

    Having this cultural Marxist propaganda spouted out by people who are only given a voice in the media due to privilege makes it all the more disingenuous. Those who talk about the privilege of others the most are the ones who are themselves the most privileged.

  55. @okrahead at 8:34 pm

    For women, the burden of performance used to be child bearing and rearing. Consider the Old Testament story of Hannah . . .

    You bring up an interesting point, one that I suspect exerts some pull even today. If men are to be judged for making more of themselves, then is it also possible that women still receive judgement from society for her performance as a mother — or maybe for refusing to even take on the role to begin with?

    One example from modern times: I remember reading a while back that there was a new trend for leaders in the Chinese government of referring to females who failed to marry by age 30 as Sheng Nu, or “leftover women.” Vox Day even mentioned it in a bit more detail here. Feminist groups kicked and screamed, which only showed that the insult really did have some sting. And the Chinese government, being the Chinese government, kept using it and can be expected to consider more “creative” measures if the birth rate continues to remain below replacement level.

    The communists are cold bastards, but they do realize that their country can’t continue if women cease to be mothers, and they also seem to know that the women are likely to feel guilty for giving up the role as well. If a few in Western governments begin to put this together as well . . . maybe we’ll live to see the feminine imperative having to deal with an epic body blow.

    One can hope, at least.

  56. I couldn’t imagine life without a burden of performance. As I work hard and plan for the future, I get great feelings on a limbic level for problem solving. I feel hard wired to accept the burden, and accel at what I’m on earth to do.

    I think being a woman sounds boring and unfulfilling, except for motherhood

  57. Very insightful comments here – I for one do very much appreciate everybody’s concern here – concern for trying to understand humanity better so as to take on life more artfully, and taking the time to write thoughts down and share these. It seems to me that is the general consensus of the sentiment of the commenting here, probably because Rollo sets the standard with the quality of, and motivations for, the insights he shares with us here. This concern with trying to understand better so as to live better is what my primary motivation has always been, and I think that is probably true of everybody in one way or the other (but life has a way of obfuscating this primary concern – dead-end-wise, cul-de-sac-wise, inescapable eddy-wise etc.etc., within the often conflicting nature of the pattern-seeking contingencies of the forbrain vs, hindbrain dynamic we are all subject to). Doing what Rollo does plays to our greatest human strength – our ability to gain understanding through other’s understanding. Rollo – there is something about your approach that seems to provide a tendency towards avoiding the above-mentioned pitfalls of exploration (perhaps it is a nuanced and subtle appreciation for the conflicting contingencies of forbrain vs hindbrain activity).

    Rollo – quoting from your article – “Bear in mind that attraction and arousal are different sides of the Hypergamy coin (AF/BB), but many cross-cultural studies suggest that a capacity for creative, innovative, adaptive intelligence has been an evolutionarily selected-for socio-sexual trait in men – much less so in women. That’s important for the MGTOW critic to remember, it’s not as simple as a feminine-primary social order dictating men being slaves to their burden of performance. Just as gender is primarily biological, and not a social construct, neither is women’s evolved, Hypergamous sexual filtering.”

    I have a desire to penetrate deeper into these insights of yours. For example, in your passage quoted above I sense you are pointing at the myriad of man/woman polarity-induced algorithms – the physically innate polarity, the psychically innate polarity, the socially innate polarity, with a meta-level polarity of social/cultural conditioning, with modifying feedback-loops of this meta-level, back to the receptors within the various innate attributes, with more precise feedback loops also occurring within more general feedback loops, and some of these precise and general feedback loops also feeding information back into the meta level). There are alot of moving parts to this man/woman dynamic (looked at from an informational analysis perspective).

    Rollo – my current question is – do you have thoughts about how to continue penetrating deeper into these redpill insights, as at commence the undertaking of an algorithmic understanding? It seems to me, if we (humanity) could achieve such undertaking, there would be untold benefits for everyone (and for humanity, from a species-perspective).

    What methods could best serve such approach?

    On just a personal level, for me, I have a desire for a deeper understanding because I am troubled by my current condition of having a deep appreciation for the feminine, despite redpill (or perhaps even more-so now due to redpill), in the sense that it seems to me the feminine perspective brings something very key to the table (outside the realm of the contingencies of procreation, or perhaps due to these contingencies, but expressed at a meta-level that has superseded the procreative aspect). I still can’t grasp exactly what it is though (like I also have a deep appreciation for the masculine perspective, procreation-supersession-wise, but it it much easier for me to grasp what that is).

  58. “What methods could best serve such approach?”

    Careful observation and analysis; just as for any other course of investigation.

    I suggest that you, like E.O. Wilson, begin with ants. Then you can move on to cats and dogs.

  59. @Cave,

    Yo man, wassup? : ) lol….

    ” you thank people who gave you something you NEED… Basic power dynamic here people..”

    Okay, I will give you that, but just for a thought exercise let me spin the ” thanks ” thing from another viewpoint that also occupies space in my head.

    technically, I don’t feel that I have to wait for most people to ” give ” me anything. I could always just take whatever I wanted by force. You already know how I see Yin and Yang, I have a good/nice side and an equally ( potentially ) bad/evil/mean as a snake side. Others being cooperative and helpful help me to reinforce my decision not to exercise the Dark Side…lol..*heavy, mechanical breathing*.

    I never say thanks if I don’t mean it. The chick at the checkout counter gets no love for treating me like I’m a bother, interrupting her Candy Crush marathon. I am content in the understanding that if I chose to, I could lean forward and punch her into a coma. Too easy. Therefore in my mind, she is rendered less than insignificant.

    The same is also true of everyone we interact with. Everyone could become uncooperative assholes and society would become war racked and collapse within a generation. There’s gotta be a little payoff for the masses to bother remaining civil. Legal ramifications are not always enough.

    But I view friends and loved ones differently. It’s important to me that, at the end of the day, I express appreciation to those I care about. I am too well aware that my heart could stop beating for a variety of reasons, within the next hour. Maybe getting older is a driver for me? Maybe I’ve been a pall bearer 1 too many times?

    I want to always remain open enough to ” emotions ” to be able to enjoy the good feelz, while still being realistic enough to remain guarded enough not to get kicked in the nuts by disappointing emotions. Yin and Yang. IMO it is a balancing act that can bear good fruit, but it is just ” one more thing ” on my life’s to do list.

    At 20 I did not feel this way. At 30 I did not feel this way. At 40 my life started feeling a little too concentrated, so I went for emotional expansion – Lol, that shit sounds way too New Age. By choice I’m being more open and appreciative. It works for me thus far.

    Maybe by 60 I’ll figure that it was all just a crock of shit. Won’t know till I get there.

  60. “Maybe by 60 I’ll figure that it was all just a crock of shit.”

    Not a crock of shit, but perhaps a growing phase.

    “Maybe I’ve been a pall bearer 1 too many times?”

    I am now at the stage of life where I know more dead people than live people. Perhaps I have had an “advantage” though; I grew up with a rather tenuous grasp on life and have understood that my life could end with the next heart beat at least since reaching the age of self-consciousness.

    “It’s important to me that, at the end of the day, I express appreciation to those I care about.”

    Show, don’t tell. That’s part of the Burden of Performance.

  61. @kfg

    Perhaps I have had an “advantage” though; I grew up with a rather tenuous grasp on life and have understood that my life could end with the next heart beat at least since reaching the age of self-consciousness.

    +1

    At 16 years old, I had heart surgery for radio catheter ablation of an accessory pathway. Cutting edge stuff at the time. In and out of the hospital for heart surgery in 3 days normally. Unfortunately, my case wasn’t normal. Somebody brushed my elbow after failing to discharge static electricity and I was electrically grounded. Recovery from the ensuing 2 hours of cardiac arrest took 2 weeks in the hospital, 2 months at home to start pushing physically, a year and a half to play soccer at a reasonable level again.

    Spending time for all intents and purposes dead at that age reassured me that death is always grinning at us. It’s up to us to return the grin with grace or cower in fear. In my case, they didn’t get the finish the surgery the first time so I went back again to have it done right.

    Life causes death in 100% of documented cases. Most of the population these days just gets lucky enough to spend the majority of their lives isolated from that fact till their older years.

  62. @Sun wukong
    That last part got me thinking about this.
    “Sigma: The outsider who doesn’t play the social game and manage to win at it anyhow. The sigma is hated by alphas because sigmas are the only men who don’t accept or at least acknowledge, however grudgingly, their social dominance. (NB: Alphas absolutely hate to be laughed at and a sigma can often enrage an alpha by doing nothing more than smiling at him.) Everyone else is vaguely confused by them. In a social situation, the sigma is the man who stops in briefly to say hello to a few friends accompanied by a Tier 1 girl that no one has ever seen before. Sigmas like women, but tend to be contemptuous of them. They are usually considered to be strange. Gammas often like to think they are sigmas, failing to understand that sigmas are not social rejects, they are at the top of the social hierarchy despite their refusal to play by its rules.”
    It’s from Heartise I’ve been doing a lot of self work and learning about the trauma and the effects and desperity it has had on my life. Money as a resource and being around Men.

    In a way I can’t wait to die.

  63. Hey blax,

    I think we are mostly on the same page with this, just saying it differently.

    To elaborate, it is very easy for most men to fall into the nice guy/beta “please, thank you, appreciation, compliment” trap. Very easy, ask me how I know.

    Look at LeeLee’s reaction to it. She seems to appreciate it, but at the same time something is missing, no?

    I think that “something” is approval.

    My wife cooks all my meals. All of them. That’s a lot of thank you’s. But if I say, “That was some good chicken you made” or “You sure cooked a mean stew” or “I really like this new recipe, please make it more often!” then I am giving more than just a “thank you” for something I 100% expect her to do anyway.

    I also offer criticism if I did not like a certain meal. Doesn’t happen often though, as she has been trying really hard to keep our meals interesting.

    If I offer her just a “thank you” she usually says, “yep”

    But if I say thing like I listed above, she will usually say something like, “glad you liked it” or “I was worried it wouldn’t turn out” or something way more engaging than “yep”. (most times she’ll tell me the story of how she found the recipe or whatever, chicks like to tell stories…lol)

    I insist that the kids thank her though.

    If I don’t say anything about the meal, she will usually quiz me on it.

    “Didn’t you like it?”

  64. Hey Rollo – After I took the red pill a few months ago and stopped being a beta blue pill chump my wife gave me a copy of this mangina scribed piece of clap trap. Apparently, by not catering to het every emotional whim and womanly complaint anymore, and by pointing out her double standards and inappropriate demands & behavior, I’m a gaslighter. So the burden of performance modern women, feminists I guess, expect is suck up supplication 24/7. “Yes dear. You’re right dear!” And dweebs like this buy in and make a name for themselves as first class beta orbiters.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/958859

  65. @kfg – yes, I think the observations and analysis to-date, with respect to humanity, have been very useful, in showing how parts of the “humanity-machine” works, with it’s gendered subscript running as part of the overall “machine”, but we still haven’t put the overall set of algorithms together to the degree we have with other species, (i.e. – with such analysis of many other species, our accurate overviews, empirical-method-wise, have born more real-world fruit with respect to predictive power), but with humanity, I think this algorithmic-understanding approach is still far from providing the same level of overall understanding as shown by the more limited predictive power generated to-date, by said approach. I agree that it is still the right approach, but the moving parts seem to be just so much more intricate, and complex than with most other species. We need better methods of collating our current observations, I think. I think such improved methodology is called for because humanity has more non-deterministic “noise” in the system, and furthermore this “noise” has been transfigured, by way of real abstraction, into something more than just “noise”, into a real emergent property, in at least one way – the ghost-like self-awareness we possess that we have fashioned into the real abstraction we call human agency – our belief in our ability to take decisions.

    IMO humans are predictable (like other animals) until they are not, and the scope of “the not” is vast, it seems to me, compared to other species. Like we are now at the point of analyzing the human-analysis-algorithms, and this recursiveness allows in all kinds of crazy abstractions that have “realness” pontentialities, IMO.

    I think there probably is such a thing as a set of algorithms for humanity, that would have much more power predictive-wise, but that because of the above-mentioned issues, we need better tools, for dialing in algorithm-search-wise.

    Perhaps a new way of collating our observations about humanity would be a helpful approach (many more axis of trait and aptitude interactions, producing a much deeper multi-dimensional combinatorial space of possibilities, as compared with other species). Goggle’s DeepMind Technologies, may be a technology that could aid such meta-collation.

    Rollo – are you aware of anyone making headway, social science-wise, with this stuff?

    kfg – I believe I did read E.O. Wilson’s Consilience back in the day, but I see he has a 2014 book out now entitled “The Meaning of Human Existence”. I will endeavor to look into E. O. Wilson’s more recent work – thanks for the tip.

  66. @Rugby: “It’s from Heartise . . .”

    Reprinting Vox Day: The Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

    @Cave Clown: “But if I say thing like I listed above . . .”

    It is, in a way, even though spoken, showing, not telling. It’s a visceral reaction, rather than an explanation or boilerplate politeness.

  67. “Your husband should thank you for BJs ”

    I really feelz the need to point out how wrong this is.

    NEVER thank a woman for anything sexual.

    Compliment her technique, tell her how hot you are/were for her, do some aftercare, but holy shit don’t ever thank her.

  68. “It is, in a way, even though spoken, showing, not telling. It’s a visceral reaction, rather than an explanation or boilerplate politeness.”

    Exactly.

  69. @Wild Man: “I think there probably is such a thing as a set of algorithms for humanity . . .”

    Why not start with something simple and easy first, like passing the Turing Test?

    ” . . . he has a 2014 book out now entitled “The Meaning of Human Existence”. ”

    That one is proving quite controversial, as his current stance on the evolutionary model is at odds with the contemporary consensus. I need to put it on my own short list, which is already distressingly long.

  70. @looking

    Why are you “pointing out her double standards and inappropriate demands & behavior”? Did you post on the Rationale Female site?

  71. “NEVER thank a woman for anything sexual.”
    Reading about billy wilder and he mentions the same thing.
    Cave it’s great reading your growth.

  72. “NEVER thank a woman for anything sexual.”
    Reading about billy wilder and he mentions the same thing.
    Cave it’s great reading your growth.”

    Hey thanks man!

    Tough road, holy shit. But getting there I suppose.

    Pretty sure if I never wanted another BJ from the wife, I would just thank her for the last one.

    Slut shields to 100%!!! Deploy the obligated compliance!!! Ready nuclear shit tests!!!! Prepare to engage the branch swing to Chad Thundercock!!!

  73. @kfg – “Why not start with something simple and easy first, like passing the Turing Test?”

    The agenda I hope for as outlined above, probably is only as ambitious as a pass on the Turing Test. If we could find the right set of algorithms that properly elucidates the human condition, so as to provide a deep predictive power, I think that would be approximately akin to a Turing Test pass.

    E.O. Wilson’s latest book being controversial – OK – good to hear (that makes me want to read it all the more)!

  74. Today I learned a lot about some serious trauma and it’s imposition.
    I defended people who not only attempted to force me as a beta but also ignore there actual sexual behavior than.
    My independence was hard to gain even at 27 it’s hard to go back to the house I was in. They don’t know me and keep trying to force me into a beta religious provider with conviction.

    I was telling a buddy of mine how much I appreciate intimacy as a male who always felt the emotional demand of my family of origin.

    Intimacy to me I don’t know what that is. I do know that when I see it I appreciate it. But the work that goes into building that is everything this essay is about.

    I get angry with myself for failing to live up to the burden of performance.
    I haven’t yet Ben able to internalize the impact and beauty that comes with that.

  75. NEVER thank a woman for anything sexual.
    Compliment her technique, tell her how hot you are/were for her, do some aftercare, but holy shit don’t ever thank her.

    After sex, shit eating grin, watching her afterwards about to get dressed. She sees me looking at her, smiles, asks, “what?”

    I say, “,…yeah,…lets just keep your ass that way, OK?”

    Giggles like a school girl, goes crazy on me a second time.

    When you can neg and compliment your wife/GF in the same line without thinking about it, then you’ve internalized the Game.

  76. With being aware
    https://eclass.upatras.gr/modules/document/file.php/LIT1890/Hemmingway,%20Ernest%20-%20Men%20Without%20Women.pdf
    Nothing hurts with the ability to take life as as harsh as it is. I have attempting an failed at removing buffers from my life I have a long way to go. I know what I have to do but it’s hard to do it. Self discipline and uncomfortable situations are what I’m used to in the wrong caliber. I over act or under act and at times I don’t act. I surrender the burden of performance. At points such as this everyone is angry with me because that’s me just “getting it”.
    I find that rejection without doing it to myself is a rather interesting experience.
    It’s dressing better and speaking with authority and amused mastery.

  77. I think many would find Leykis’ thoughts on marriage security to be interesting and even more relevant today. I appreciate your explanation of male smv in terms beyond professional status in this post. That was primarily the issue I was grappling with.

    Is it beta fucks or alpha bucks entering into marriage as an apex alpha at prime smv? Luckily, if a man waits long enough, he can protect the majority of premarital assets with the right setup. Of course, little can be done from the women cashing in on your continued height of professional success.
    Every redpill man who might get married should research legal terms regarding seperate property, transmutation, and generally speak to divorce attorneys about personal asset protection well before dating your unicorn occurs.

    Interestingly, you brought up george lucas, who not only is getting reamed by the imperative in the macro picture, but also got to experience divorce, as well as rule 7 whereby the wife appears to be praised for her brilliance in helping george write some of star wars. Based on some research, it appears that she was also doing everything to hault george from reaching his potential.

  78. @Wild Man: “The agenda I hope for as outlined above, probably is only as ambitious as a pass on the Turing Test.”

    The Turing Test is a simple, conversational “two body” problem, with the bodies hidden from each other. Three bodies in the same room is a whole ‘nother kettle of people, with nonverbal communications, sexual and social hierarchies to account for.

    So, OK, start with something simple and easy like solving the three body problem, and then the Navier-Stokes existence and smoothness problems.

  79. @Looking for Zion – the huffpost article you linked:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yashar-hedayat/a-message-to-women-from-a_1_b_958859.html

    Yeah it is so telling. The guy gets a lot right, but the conclusions he draws are all completely wrong because he fails to to take into account the innate and social differences between men/women with respect to something as basic as how reality is tested by each gender, normatively.

    If we are just talking about generalities (and since the article is about a general man/woman issue, – we then should be taking the general-perspective), and not specific people, like the two examples he used mid-article that I guess was supposed to indicate to his readers that that is the complete anecdotal-decriptor of this gas-lighting dynamic, which is completely untrue – then, my normative analysis of quotes from the article, would be as follows:

    1) “Gaslighting is a term often used by mental health professionals (I am not one) to describe manipulative behavior used to confuse people into thinking their reactions are so far off base that they’re crazy”.

    The author fails to understand that women have tendency towards this behavior as a default position – they aren’t as good at objectively testing reality, so they rely on others for this, and instead test other’s views – they are doing this constantly – you could say it is gaslighting (except the women are often so agency-refusing in the dynamic that they are actually doing it to themselves as well). So when a man guides her back to reality when she has veered off, it shouldn’t be called gaslighting for god sake, the author has it completely backwards – it should be called reality-reassurance, because that is what it is.

    2) “The form of gaslighting I’m addressing is not always pre-mediated or intentional, which makes it worse, because it means all of us, especially women, have dealt with it at one time or another”.

    Yes, because women are the main progenitors of the gas-lighting, the projecting of false views, to test reality that way – so we are all subject to a barrage of this as per usual.

    3) “Those who engage in gaslighting create a reaction — whether it’s anger, frustration, sadness — in the person they are dealing with. Then, when that person reacts, the gaslighter makes them feel uncomfortable and insecure by behaving as if their feelings aren’t rational or normal.”

    Yes, as a man,if you revert to a kneejerk reaction of anger, frustration, or sadness when faced with women’s reality-testing gas-lighting, then everyone (both the man and the woman) devolve into insecurity. But, for the woman, she is projecting her responsibility in the matter on to the man (because the agency-refusing that is often part of this dynamic with women, blinds her as to the true source of the ill feelings)

    4) “Even vocal, confident, assertive women are vulnerable to gaslighting. Why? Because women bare the brunt of our neurosis. It is much easier for us to place our emotional burdens on the shoulders of our wives, our female friends, our girlfriends, our female employees, our female colleagues, than for us to impose them on the shoulders of men.”

    Women are generally more neurotic than men because their reality-testing method has this side effect. In fact men are made to bear some of women’s neurosis via this female gas-lighting as reality-testing dynamic.

    5) “It’s a whole lot easier to emotionally manipulate someone who has been conditioned by our society to accept it. We continue to burden women because they don’t refuse our burdens as easily. It’s the ultimate cowardice.”

    Yes – women sometimes accept the burden of wrongheaded views but it is because they have a tendency to refuse agency around their gas-lighting as reality-testing methods. I guess you could say that is pretty cowardly.

    6) “No wonder some women are unconsciously passive aggressive when expressing anger, sadness, or frustration. For years, they have been subjected to so much gaslighting that they can no longer express themselves in a way that feels authentic to them.”

    Yes – this is true, some women are unconsciously passive aggressive, but the culpability of women themselves is the main issue.

    7) “From the way women are portrayed on reality shows, to how we condition boys and girls to see women, we have come to accept the idea that women are unbalanced, irrational individuals, especially in times of anger and frustration.”

    Well, people in general have a tendency to become unbalanced and irrational when angry and frustrated, but women are more irrational generally (even when not angry or frustrated), so there is no valid author’s point here.

    8) “As far as I am concerned, the epidemic of gaslighting is part of the struggle against the obstacles of inequality that women constantly face. Acts of gaslighting steal their most powerful tool: their voice. This is something we do to women every day, in many different ways.”

    If women would stop gas-lighting as reality-testing, and stop agency-refusing around this, then they would retain a conviction that they have a “voice”.

    9) “When we are discouraged in our youth and early adulthood from expressing emotion, it causes many of us to remain steadfast in our refusal to express regret when we see someone in pain from our actions.”

    Women are not discouraged from expressing emotion. Quite the opposite. They egg each other on all the time. To me (and probably other men) when this happens it looks like a feelsfest. Also – they don’t have much regret for the pain they may cause a man to feel in this gas-lighting as reality-testing dynamic, perhaps because since they refuse agency around this, they can’t relate, and what they can’t relate to, they can’t feel. Or it may be even more unconsciously duplicitous than this (like perhaps the man is not seen as a human in the same way as another woman would be, perhaps more like something that is valued more-so for it’s use – there is something to this view as well, but I haven’t drilled down on this enough myself to know for sure if in fact the woman’s viewpoint of men is in fact this low, but I have been in plenty of situations that gave me pause to wonder, and this is one of the harsher tenets of redpill, so other men here will tell you this is true).

    10) “When I was writing this piece, I was reminded of one of my favorite Gloria Steinem quotes, “The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn, but to unlearn.”

    I guess that would be to unlearn the rational approach. Fuck Gloria Steinmen and her ilk, IMO. Who the fuck gave these fucktards a pulpit to preach from in the first place. There is a mystery there, still to be revealed, as to exactly what happened with tenure provision etc. among Steinmen’s set, at major universities, in the 1970’s. That is a story that has yet to be told, as far as I am aware. There is going to be more ugliness there to be revealed then people actually think IMO. If I had some funding I just might go and do a documentary about that. It is about time. IMO this story is being suppressed but I have no idea why, but sure would like to find out.

    11) “But isn’t the issue of gaslighting ultimately about whether we are conditioned to believe that women’s opinions don’t hold as much weight as ours? That what women have to say, what they feel, isn’t quite as legitimate?”

    Look, I think women probably do have something very worthwhile to offer, voice-wise. The true voice is probably being stymied somehow. The place to start is to call out women on this agency-refusal thing. That is what I try to do now. Not sure how this social experiment is going to turn out for me though (it’s a new thing – only a few months old – and the appropriate opportunities don’t come up that often, unless you want to be written off by the people in your social group as big dick, which might not be a bad thing from one perspective, but is not what I am really after at this particular point in my life).

    Sure the author is right that some people (both men and women) use gas-lighting as a method to get their selfishly-motivated way, by way of malicious intent. These people are sadistic psychopaths. It is completely wrong to pretend that men generally, are like that. But in his defense, he does seem to have an arabic name, and so perhaps psychopathic-sadistic type behavior of controlling others is more condoned among men in the middle eastern culture. I don’t know enough about that culture to really know for sure.

    Getting back to my main point – that women tend to gas-light as reality-testing without acknowledging agency – to me that explains the basis of game. That is what game is for. To meet this female need. If you do it well you get rewarded, female-wise. Still feels like women’s-feelings-babysitting to me though. It’s a burden of performance that I would rather refuse at this point (I’ve been burned probably because I haven’t done it well). Still a bit jaded that I ultimately have to accept this responsibility. Still trying to get over being off-put and jaded, so I can get on with things.

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