Hats Off to the Bull

open_hypergamy_cartoon

CH maxim: The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

The following is a story from the Red Pill subredd:

My all too true story goes like this: years ago in my divorce my wife basically stopped having sex with me. The lack of sex was in line with her seemingly having a problem with anything I did (be it how I dressed, how I told jokes, and more). …Note: sex was once every two months or so if that.

I tried to talk to her about how it seemed we just weren’t getting along that well. She said we were getting along just fine. The only problem was me. Per my wife I had UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS about married life after 15 years of being together and with kids running around. Her work demands also helped make sex a low priority for her. She was too tired in the evening. The kids were up in the morning. The weekends were needed to catch up on house stuff and spend time with the kids. Vacations were also “kid” time. The twist she put on it was DIDN’T I LOVE THE KIDS?

Another problem I had (per my wife) was that was I was TOO SENSITIVE. My “whining” about the lack of sex and closeness was proof of this.

[Game note: If I were to consider another Iron Rule of Tomassi it would be this: Never complain, whine, negotiate, or otherwise attempt to appeal to a woman’s reason by explaining your need for sex, intimacy or “closeness”. Nothing demonstrates lower value and reconfirms a woman’s Beta perception of you than openly complaining, or explaining, about your sexless status.

This is not exclusively for married men. Rank Beta men will often make these “dryspell appeals” to female friends who then talk to their other friends and pass on your DLV impression to them.]

Unfortunately, I bought her story line and internalized it. I self-censored, essentially stopping my complaining about no sex and just accepted it. I was less accepting of her poor day-to-day treatment of me but even on that point I tried not to complain too much (not wanting to come across as “whiny”).

And I was pro-active about trying to make our marriage better. I tried my best to be positive about things. I even kept a diary to keep myself honest. I did more chores around the house. I more and more let her have things her way. And I was already in quite good physical shape. I made myself even more so.

And the end result of all this? Turns out my wife had been having secret affairs for years. She was having sex 4 or 5 times a week with her lovers (lunch time, quickies after work in a park, the beach locker, the driveway at night, etc.) Her story line on “my problems” had mostly just been bullshit to keep me at bay so she could continue her secret affairs. As she told me at the tail end of our divorce in a moment of candor, the “forbidden fruit” of extramarital sex was “very exciting”. Her longest term lover (3 years) had just been a play thing and only ended when he asked her to marry him (not realizing he was also being “cheated” on with another lover my wife had).

Next up is TRM reader Razorwire who came strong with this comment from the Adaptations II thread:

[…] I’d say by now the societal and personal risks are negligible for pretty much any decision made by women. So these days, the delay of the beta-bucks model is extended to encompass a starter marriage or having children. The cuckold window is wide open.

I’ve seen this in fellow genXers who actually married young (by todays standards) but of course those men turned out to be jerks or were too irresponsible or selfish (all of the things that got her wet) so they divorced and she quickly locked down the beta-bux who was likely her “friend” back in college or some “nice” co-worker she met in her three-year career with the insurance company.

I went to one such wedding a couple of summers ago. Now that they have a kid and she’s realized the full potential of the AF/BB transition, she can’t (or doesn’t bother to) hide her disdain for his niceness and general lack of alpha behavior. He’s a dead man walking.

On that note, I caught a trailer of an upcoming Will Ferrell film: “Daddy’s Home.” Frames it up nicely.

While I’m sure they will have some hollywood make-believe ending in which the biological dad realizes his loss, has to confront manhood (as defined by the FI), and is jealous/admiring of the stepdad for his honorable provisioning of the kids, the interesting part of the trailer was how it focused on the two “dads” competing for the love and attention of the kids. I’m sure it is funny, but also telling.

Not only is the Sandberg stepdad supposed to be a just-in-time dad to fulfill the equalist needs of the post-wall (and in this case – post reproduction) wife, but he is also expected to pedestalize and perform for the offspring of the cad in order to earn (and keep) his place as the settle-down guy in the eyes of the wife. He must keep winning his way through the consolation bracket for a wife who has not just achieved the AF/BB transition, but has done so after capturing the genetics of the Alpha. He doesn’t even “get” the beta bucks prize of breeding.

The dwindling societal pressure to honor marital commitments and minimal shame of divorce has allowed the delay of beta bucks to blow past birth control in terms of prevention into what is now birth control in terms of actualizing female preference for the AF offspring – with rapidly decreasing risk/impact on her ability to secure the Beta Bux stepdad or post-baby-daddy husband (because now marriage means something to her.)

With, of course, big daddy gov’t as a stand in. But I’d reckon that the attractive single moms are not struggling at all to parlay into BB.

Because they aren’t his kids the stepdad’s burden of performance includes purchasing/exchanging resources for the children’s love which is one more condition he must continually meet in order to maintain her conditional love. Talk about a fleeting proposition.

Peruse any online dating site and you will see the teaser advertising for this coming from all single moms. It’s really just “must love dogs” on crack but often with more bait n switch mechanisms.

Meanwhile the perpetual competition (between you and him) merely deepens the resource pool for her to leverage into her lifestyle and security.

One man is operating under the threatpoint of divorce, the other under the legal extortive aspects of the post-divorce financial fatherhood model. Both must pay to play. Both are subject to her approval, her terms – backed by the social and legal structure. As such, neither are actually fathers, but just offshoots of motherhood channeled through provisioning and conditional exchanges.

I’d say even with the extensive provisioning (the kids in this flick have it all), the kids are still getting the shit end of it. Two marginalized dads is still less than one Father, one marriage. They are just being indoctrinated into the consumerist, fem-centric, self-indulgent model of modern marriage.

A mom who goes full AF/BB with kids in tow may get sold as the heroines journey, but it still strikes me as deeply selfish.

We had an interesting discussion in this thread about modern cuckoldry and the rise of it becoming ‘fetishized’ for men as some new form of ‘alternative’ lifestyle. I’ll get into the grisly biological nuts and bolts of this later, but before I do the practical reasonings for a societally acceptable cuckoldry need to be highlighted.

I chose Razorwire’s comment and the story above to illustrate a fundamental Red Pill truth – Hypergamy is nothing if not pragmatic.

In a larger respect, a woman optimizing Hypergamy follows a predictable schedule, but as Razorwire points out, on a psychological level it also builds fail-safe contingencies into that schedule. Root level, largely subconscious, survival/parental investment insecurities and long term insurances against them drives this pragmatism. Thus we see operative social conventions carefully prepared to excuse and absolve women’s duplicitous behaviors in both a social and personal scope.

What benefits a female sexual strategy is forgivable and prudent in a fem-centric social order no matter what the personal consequences are. Women’s default victimhood status is their strongest insurance against those consequences while what benefits men’s sexual strategy is characterized as selfish, juvenile or criminal. These characterizations, and the social conventions that are an extension of them, are part of the pragmatism of Hypergamy.

When you look at the time line I presented in the Preventative Medicine book and series, and you get to the stages just before and just after a woman’s Epiphany Phase – the phase at which a woman’s subconscious understanding that her SMV decline has begun in earnest – you begin to see a bigger picture; a meta overview of the necessity of keeping Blue Pill men ignorant of their long term role in that strategy.

While women increasingly embrace Open Hypergamy and become increasingly more confident of their capacity to satisfy both sides of it (AF/BB) due to a presumed expectation for men to also openly support it, there comes less expectation to try to optimize Hypergamy with only one man.

The Future of Hypergamy is Cuckoldry

The following quote came from a fantastic essay one of Heartiste’s readers, Chris, submitted regarding the recent gay marriage ruling:

I don’t know many men who would sign up to an institution where the partners are expected/morally obliged to be emotionally faithful but not sexually faithful. It is much easier for women to get casual sex than men, so any man signing himself up to that deal would be signing himself up for cuckoldry and cuckoldry is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a man pursuing a long-term mating strategy, (and it is the evolved moral norms surrounding the long-term mating strategy which marriage as a cultural institution is/was developed around/for.)

Of course, if people became more knowledgeable about evo-bio/evo-psych and instead started calling marriage essentially what it is, the social-codification of the long-term mating strategy in humans, then this concern wouldn’t really matter. (No worrying about importing norms anti-thetical to the reproductive interests of one party in the relationship and subsequently which disincentivizes the pursuit of the strategy from that party as its definition is strictly evo-bio/evo-psych.)

In The Myth of the Good Guy I put forth the idea that while women would ideally like to have both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy satisfied by the same man, women today don’t even have the expectation that this is in anyway possible, much less is it preferable to them anymore. The expectation becomes one of the Sandberg plan; expect to bang the bad boys, the Alphas and the thrill providers while your SMV is high, and expect a good, persistent and reliable ‘Dad’ to be ready to forgive and forget all that before you’re 30.

What Chris digs into in that essay isn’t so much about gays being married, but rather the fundamental restructuring of the nature of marriage. Religious issues only serve as a convenient distraction, the nuts and bolts of it is that this edict fundamentally restructures the legal aspects of male/female marriage. When this restructuring questions and impedes the access to long-term resource provisioning for divorced women (initiators of 70+% of divorces), that’s when you’ll see a truly misandric inequality in hetero vs. homosexual marriage arrangements. Men will still need to be forced into indenturement and forced to cooperate with a binding commitment to Hypergamy in the face of alternative marriages not based on monogamy.

Indeed, what man would sign up for that arrangement? Particularly in an era when women (not the Red Pill) blatantly lay bare the duplicity of their sexual strategies.

Limiting Dick

Around the time I was writing the second book I’d gotten into a Twitter debate with several feminists on a hashtag called #askmenanything or something to that effect. The pretense was of course to “ask men” all the insipid meme questions and answer them for men with feminist boilerplate. Once the Red Pill forums and manosphere proper got involved the tag quickly switched footing and feminists lost interest.

It was during one of these exchanges that I’d quoted Heartiste’s maxim from the start of this post to a particular feminist; Feminism’s end goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality.

Her response was an incredulous, “So you think all feminism is about is limiting dick?!”

It was of course the type of simple dismissive I’ve come to expect from the fem-powerment generation, but it sums up the dynamic pretty well. It’s always been my take that feminism in all of its waves has always been another social arm of the Feminine Imperative; which has always been an imperative driven by the best interests of optimizing women’s Hypergamous choices.

So yes, feminism is in fact about ‘limiting dick’ by socially, legislatively, personally and psychologically facilitating the selecting out and opting in on what best serves a woman’s short term and long term sexual strategy needs – throughout her entire life, not just around her Epiphany Phase. She needs the Alpha bull for his raw sexuality, dominance and confidence, and she needs the Beta comfort, investment and reliability that her bull is unwilling or unable to give her.

In this new age of proactive and reactive cuckoldry, men are expected to put up and shut up with playing the role of one or the other. In our thread conversation about cuckold fetishes the idea was put out that there’s some sick or deviant mindset in which a man gets off on watching his wife get pounded by another man. Keep in mind the possibility that the rise in popularity of cuckold porn may be an extension of this new paradigm.

The cuckold fetish narrative follows the same Hypergamous script as any other “alternative lifestyle”. As I mentioned in the Adaptation series, even within the ostensibly Free Love paradigm the same Hypergamous imperative was played out. In cuckold porn there is always an Alpha bull, a ‘superior’ sexual competitor that fucks that man’s wife; an inferior Beta sexual partner is never the tingle generating center of that fantasy. Thus that husband plays his expected passive, supportive role within that “fantasy” and thus is that wife’s dualistic Alpha Fucks sexual strategy completed.

That’s the messy nuts and bolts of it, but it’s all too easy to get caught up in the sensation of our blood boiling in righteous indignation than to see the larger perspective. This too is a part of the pragmatism of Hypergamy.

Cuckoldry is not simply about who got to breed with a woman before or after she settled into a committed monogamy; it’s about the consistent impulse to optimize Hypergamy. It is cuckoldry for a man to assume the parental investment responsibilities of another man that a woman previously bred with. It can be proactive or it can be reactive, but the purpose it serves is the same.

Few people really grasp how outrageous it is for a man to take part in his own cuckoldry. We call those men heroes for playing savior to a woman who made “bad choices” and invests himself in a child he didn’t father, but even this association has become yet another expectation of the dutiful Beta’s role. A conditioned White Knight disposition makes him feel good about it, but it’s a woman’s strategy that comes to completion, not his own. A bull was in his bed long before him.

365 comments

  1. Re: cuk porn. What I really dislike about it is that it doesn’t just humiliate the Beta. It denigrates him. He don’t just have to watch her. She and the Bull spend significant time saying terrible things about him.

    I couldn’t see the turn on in that.

    When spinning plates I was never interested in women who had boyfriends.

  2. I work with this guy that I despise. He constantly wants me to come play hockey with him. He’s a decade younger then me and I actually know his wife. She’s the fat ugly supervisor of one of my old plates. Pizza girl plate. A hot 20 year old omega female. Probably destined for a life of heroin addiction or turning into a fat monster. I used her like the plate she was and guys wife was always giving me the I want to fuck eyes. I would never touch her of course because she’s fat. She’s not even a woman.

    He told me that she has flat out told him that if a hot enough guy hits on her she’s gonna fuck him. But that he is free to do so as well. As a reaction to this he told me he’s started watching lots of pornography. I don’t like what he is, a beta faggot, and I’ve made that clear. And she has a kid already with a man that generated the tingles but was a complete piece of shit. Over this weekend I decided, due to sir betas obvious distress, to hang out with this guy.

    I have my two children for the weekend, because I went back to court last week and the ex got threatened by the judge again. The bastard his wife cuckolded him with was with the alpha male. He told me in private how much he wishes that this guy had 100% full custody of this kid because he can not love him. And how painful it was for him to watch me with my own children. To watch the way I looked at them with such undeniable love.

    So I responded of course, like so, “I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I’m talking about?”

    I think he’ll wake up. At least he will, I pray, with his second divorce and new child support payments for a kid that isn’t his. At least he’s only 25.

    But really dude? Your fat ugly wife, who pre-cuckolded you, tells you she’s going to cheat on you if a guy like me plates her, straight up, and you turn to porn in response? Thank God he has a chance. Thank God for the manosphere and the red pill. Maybe I can wake him up? He’s clearly in pain. He can feel the despair of his cuckoldry.

  3. StringsofCoins
    July 5th, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    What exactly is the meaning of this:

    The bastard his wife cuckolded him with was with the alpha male.

  4. @M.Simon Children’ Rebellion? I doubt it will ever happen. The fertility of all first world countries is below replacement. Children are going to increasingly become a less common part of families.

    Cell phones and portable devices do most of the parenting anyways. Young people are simply less connected with their communities and families in general. They have too many toys and diversion to care; not to mention many children are overweight.

    What Rollo is describing is going to exponentially get worse as the population declines. Tragically greying old spinsters and post-wall harpies will exponentially increase in numbers this century. The overall SMV of women will greatly decrease; but the thirst in men will ensure they are still provisioned.

  5. @Simon

    His wife’s kid, that he usually takes care of, was with the actual father.

  6. thedeclineandfall
    July 5th, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    @M.Simon Children’ Rebellion? I doubt it will ever happen.

    What about this:

    StringsofCoins
    July 5th, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    He told me in private how much he wishes that this guy had 100% full custody of this kid because he can not love him.

    ================

    Unloved boys are an especial problem. They go feral. And unloved girls? Well we see the result of that already. Girls Gone Wild. Indifferent to their own children.

  7. I probably should add that the LTR was an inconvenient child. And she was fairly determined that it was not going to happen to her children. She came close though. I was so disgusted with her that I was on the verge of leaving. #1 son talked me out of it. He was very wise and said,”You know what kind of step father she will pick. A child molester.” No matter how bad she was I couldn’t do that to my kids. But I did need a reminder at one point.

  8. [Game note: If I were to consider another Iron Rule of Tomassi it would be this: Never complain, whine, negotiate, or otherwise attempt to appeal to a woman’s reason by explaining your need for sex, intimacy or “closeness”. Nothing demonstrates lower value and reconfirms a woman’s Beta perception of you than openly complaining, or explaining, about your sexless status.

    This is not exclusively for married men. Rank Beta men will often make these “dryspell appeals” to female friends who then talk to their other friends and pass on your DLV impression to them.]

    This should be a Iron Rule. If your marriage is sexless (10 or less times a year), having the Talk, as it is called in the dead bedroom discussion groups, is counter productive. Instead present as not being sexless.

  9. I agree with you that children are increasingly going to be more problematic due to unstable families ‘Girls gone wild’ is only going to get 100x worse when there are fewer females under 30; the inflated sense of entitlement will be off the charts.

    I just don’t think there will be a rebellion by young people. They will already be treated like spoiled prima donnas by a society of mostly aging old people and be placed on pedestals.

    The rebellion will be by aging feminist harpies complaining there are dwindling resources to provision them and creasing numbers of exciting men; never mind they helped create the problem by waiting until their 30’s to have children and pressing the eject button on several marriages.

  10. I think The Plan of Overt Hypergamy (I actually like “Overt” more than “Open”, feel like it covers the modes of communication better) is the most offensive thing I’m dealing with now. I spent so long being told my role in it, and now when it’s suggested to me that “maybe” I should just accept whatever post-Wall woman who’s “gotten tired of assholes” comes my way, I have a lot of trouble holding frame and not going absolutely explosively ballistic.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d plate a 30+ year old chick still hanging on to some of her former glory, but the suggestion that I should ever consider a woman that’s still single in her 30s for LTR is just… insulting. I’m supposed to just make sure The Plan goes smoothly for a woman, subverting my own wishes to meet a woman in her prime and build a relationship from there if I eventually opt for an LTR.

    Once you know the burden of performance exists and will always be in play, you suddenly can’t accept that role anymore. You realize that if you’re going to shoulder that burden, you demand something for it. A dried up, post-Wall, former CC rider expecting provisioning and an exemption from regular sexual performance as her looks fade rapidly just ain’t gonna cut it.

    It’s offensive that people think I’d accept that arrangement. Really smacks of a very low opinion of me.

  11. @M Simon
    “Unloved boys are an especial problem. They go feral.”

    Closets video of my family dynamic. Being a boy that felt unloved I learned to love myself without understanding a deep red pill truth you must respect your manhood. As a teenager I’d didn’t realized that my own farther was more emotionally insecure that my sisters. In large part that drew them to every alpha they could spread their legs for. But I wasn’t any better I didn’t increase my N count I mostly jacked off in porn and avoided people in social situations that didn’t want to talk about the emotional betrays that where going on left and right. Isolation is not the same as solitude and I find myself in solitude. I find myself reading the essays here.

  12. Women are attracted to power. If you lack the power to get what you want, and cannot obtain said power, shut the fuck up. Do not highlight your impotence.

  13. >Indeed, what man would sign up for that arrangement?

    Indeed. The men really are going on strike. Pseuds and hypsters love to hate on The Daily Mail , , , but they often tell blunt truths to power

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3046350/Why-men-refuse-marry-Women-complain-chaps-today-won-t-settle-Sorry-ladies-s-fault-argues-wickedly-provocative-new-book-Denigration-Men-PETER-LLOYD.html

    A relevant statistic: “According to the Office for National Statistics, marriage in Britain is at its lowest level since 1895. In 2011, there were just 286,634 ceremonies — a 41 per cent free fall from 1972, when 480,285 couples tied the knot.”

    and this in spite of a larger population in 2011.

    and the article has an embedded video of an interview between Peter lloyd and Paul Elam. The little boy is busy announcing that the emporor has no clothes . . .

  14. This is a pretty funny spoof on Wall Street, subprime financing and marriage:

    “Did you see your neighbor with his mistress last night? Buy some MBS credit default swaps on him and tell his wife what you saw. Is your other neighbor away from home a lot? Buy some MBS insurance on his wife, seduce her, and when they get divorced, you can cash in. Consider it “inside her” trading. ”

    http://www.dark-bid.com/wall-streets-next-bonanza-subprime-marriage-securities.html

  15. I spent so long being told my role in it, and now when it’s suggested to me that “maybe” I should just accept whatever post-Wall woman who’s “gotten tired of assholes” comes my way, I have a lot of trouble holding frame and not going absolutely explosively ballistic.

    Better than ballistic:

    And because it bears repeating at least once every post…

    Insanity GG yttik Gabriel Jane, you ignorant slut.

  16. I won’t be surprised to see a lot of cultural/hollywood/media glorification of “The Cool Step-Dad”. It’s already easy enough to find but I think a huge push is imminent.

  17. Signor Farfalla
    July 5th, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    Step dads are more prone to abuse the children.

    It is going to be difficult selling that to kids.

  18. It’d be interesting to see stats on divorce asset division – (i.e. which spouse got how much Cash and Prizes from the other one). I haven’t actually searched around for this but somehow I’m skeptical they’d be readily available.

  19. “… about cuckold fetishes the idea was put out that there’s some sick or deviant mindset in which a man gets off on watching his wife get pounded by another man. Keep in mind the possibility that the rise in popularity of cuckold porn may be an extension of this new paradigm.”

    It’s more than an idea put out, it’s a fetish that has been around forever. Some believe it relates to “sperm competition” and the higher arousal relates to tribal times when the female could mate with multiples. Certainly there is a rise in cuckold porn, but there is more of rise in futanaria porn (women who are 9s or 10s, and that have 12-15 inch dicks, often also having vaginas and no balls). Cuckold porn does not appeal to the vast majority of men, and insults such as “sloppy seconds” indicate that.

    However “watching his wife get pounded by another man” is not what this post is about, and you could have dropped this paragraph. It’s not about the watching, it’s about one’s spouse/partner having fucked, currently fucking, or will be fucking other people (women are more likely to switch teams, or switch back).

    “A bull was in his bed long before him”

    It’s about the bull that was in his bed, or is currently in his bed, or that will be in his bed. It’s about Overt Hypergamy.

  20. I am just waiting for the pedophiles to start getting into the cuckold scene for an endless supply of children. Wifey will be off with her bulls while Chester is alone taking care of the kids. That way everyone will be able to get their satisfaction…

  21. In regards to this latest post, I am a bit too conventional and a bit nonplussed and inarticulate. I got nothing.

  22. Rollo, another great post. There’s a good reason I have set aside copies of your books for my son when he leaves his mother (he is 11 right now)

    In my first marriage, my story was quite similar to the first commenter quoted. Soon after marriage my wife wasn’t interested in sex (with me), but was secretly screwing around whenever she found a source of tingles. She loved my provisioning as I my career took off and made me a star in my industry.

    Finally after 15 years she dropped the bomb and demanded an open marriage, under alternating threat of divorce and spiels about how it would ‘help strengthen our relationship’. As first I gave in – not wanting to lose my 2 kids (and they are mine, confirmed), but the hell it drug me through (and I was sooo beta) was transformative. It left scars that will never heal, but I don’t want them to. I came out of it a changed man. I need the continual reminders that drive me to be what I am now.

    After a couple of ‘experiments’ by her (she claimed it was open for both of us, just that I needed her approval for anything I wanted to pursue), I found my balls and said ‘no’ to the open marriage. While she pouted and cooled off for 8 months, I made my preparations. The big house needed to be sold, and I took a job in a city 200 miles away so I got an apartment there to stay in during the week, coming ‘home’ on the weekends. I didn’t care if she was whoring around at that point, I just gave her lip service. I sold the big toys like my M5, and moved all my things out to the apartment, moving her and the kids into her mother’s place (“so the house could be sold”) and made financial preparations. After the house sold, to her great surprise, I divorced her. I took a front loaded hit on the divorce (that she now regrets)- but I’ve come out far, far better for it. The state I was in had a 3 year cap on alimony, and fixed child support formulas.

    In every relationship since, no matter how casual, I let the girl know that regular, wanted, sex was non-negotiable, and that marriage required 5 years together period before it could be considered. No issues with showing someone the door, if it wasn’t going right.

    As I’ve posted before, I eventually did marry again – no kids with her, she works a 6-figure job (I make more) – and I remain active at what many would call married game. After this post I’m going to go have sex for the second time today. A common occurrence that I don’t think ever happened in my first marriage.

    I really do regret the reduced contact with my kids. They are getting a heavy dose of the FI from their mother. She re-married within days of the last alimony check, to a guy nowhere as successful or as Alpha as I’ve become. Ironically (or predictably), my re-married ex now responds to this ‘new me’ more favorably than she does to her new hubby. Makes me want to puke, but it doesn’t matter – women in general can’t help the way they are. I want my son to have learn that before making the mistakes I did. As for my daughter – she’s a clone of her mother – I don’t know what to do for her, if anything.

    @zerlegen: Re: divorce asset division. I’m sure it’s massively skewed towards woman takes majority. What would be more interesting is that there appears to be a systemic enforcement bias – if a man doesn’t pay what the court ordered – wham!, but if a woman doesn’t … oh well, the courts let her slide and buy her excuses. Lots of tales of men fighting for a victory in family court, only to be unable to enforce it, but not the other way around. Is there a single woman in the entire country jailed for failure to pay child support?

  23. @anubis,

    Of course not. Nobody will ever enforce anything against women. Nobody will ever hold these overgrown children responsible for anything they do ever. So react accordingly.

    My deadbeat mother never paid any child support and never has. And how many thousands of dollars do I have to pay to watch a judge wag his finger at my insane ex so I can occasionally visit with “my” children.

    Thankfully they are asleep in my new house right now. And I’m back to plates. I took awhile when I found God. But the Christians aren’t Christians. And so I’m still without a culture. But I’m not alone. And perhaps being forced to lobotomize my fatherhood from my soul, simply so I could remain sane, and doing so alone, like a man, drove me into a psychotic break. Or perhaps God was there waiting for me to find him.

    It’s plates. That’s all I can do. I can’t marry these women. Even the good ones who tell me they love me and shit. The laws are just too insane. There is no support for fatherhood. I’m fixed. I can’t get anyone pregnant again.

    And there are sluts all around me. And that’s all their is.

  24. @ M Simon,

    Who’s selling it to the kids? You’re talking about reality; I was talking about the media narrative about to be thrown at us. Single moms are usually total losers but that’s not the narrative, right? The “Cool Step-Dad” who bonds immediately and lovingly with the feral 11 year old is a narrative that will be sold to us. It doesn’t have to be something that often happens. If it fits the FI then it will be heavily pushed by media/entertainment.

  25. String of Coins

    “The laws are just too insane.”

    Yeah. It’s bare-faced Darwinian stuff going on right now. In 2015, if a guy would walk in to that world then that is just a less intelligent beast taking his rightfully low rung on the food chain.

  26. Signor Farfalla
    July 6th, 2015 at 4:08 am

    You can sell it to adults. They are often too smart by half.

    You can’t sell it to kids. They feel what they feel.

  27. This is about mindset…you think your girl is so sweet she will likely adopt that persona for you. I’ve been banging girls who at first glance you would never think were sexual. They portray themselves to their beta orbiters as ‘nice’…slightly stupid, perhaps innocent, maybe boyish…but with even a moderate amount of game I’ve been able to unlock in them a part of themselves they often never knew they had.

    Second anecdote…a girl I’m gaming has told me she’s very sexual but unless I’m her bf we can’t fuck…I’ve reframed it the other way…given her a flash of what to expect and then said “Oh well…”

    Negotiating desire or fucking never works…standing your ground…stating your position and being ready to walk away is the only strategy that can turn things around…that and abundance.

  28. Situation: I’m 30 and having my way with a 22 year old nurse to be. Her SMV is visibly below mine, so she’s melting in my hands and I’m not going to go exclusive with anyone right now. In any case, she’s very good with kids, and an overall great person. She want’s clearly kids, eventually and had “only” a few partners before me.
    Her mom has children of more than one guy, seems somewhat bitter, and essentially suggesting the cc to her, because she feels she could have had more of it. Her dad is an ass and she doesn’t respect her step dad in the least.

    Let’s consider the if’s: Even if I don’t expect to find someone who’d be better as a mother than her, I’m not going to make babies within the next 5++ years for sure. I definitely want to keep the girl around, and not even just because she’s eager to give pussy, she’s a great catch. But I’ll also be stoic about the natural end of our thing, if at one point I can’t convince her to stick around.

    Question: She’s young and I’d like to express my views on several Tomassian topics with her. I’d like to suggest to her that once we break up, she might want to keep her N count low, for her own sake. I want her to judge and learn from her families behaviors, but then I’d really have to work around just insulting the adults in her life. There are several “life without me” messages I’d like her to know, but I don’t see how I can smoothly talk with her about it without stirring up issues that will not make the Hamster work for me otherwise. Is there a way to do well in this situation at all? Do I just shut up and continue?

    Similarly, I want to teach what psychologically turns a guy on, e.g. what the attitude of giving a handjob should be, how she should show desire for the cock during blowjobs, how not accepting to spread the legs right away is often a plus to me, psychologically. However, I can’t tell her what I want directly, otherwise, during sex, I’ll immediately view what she does as a script that I laid out. On the other hand, “If you blow another guy (after me)…, you should know that guys really like if…” seems extremely contra productive in the above sense as well.
    Related, but further removed: I’ve also introduced her to some kinky acts she didn’t do before and she went with it. I’d like her to suggest kinky stuff she desires as well, but when I ask her I get a “the stuff you do, I really always liked so far … I don’t know what I’d like”.
    Odd situation… I have a great person at my hand, she’s into me and I can sexually educate her to my liking, but I lack communication tools to significantly improve my as well as her well being.

    Back to the n count issue: I know the redpill is somewhat against letting your views on the outside, what do you think?

  29. @bnon:

    She’s young and I’d like to express my views on several Tomassian topics with her.

    No. Don’t tell, show.

    I’d like to suggest to her that once we break up, she might want to keep her N count low, for her own sake.

    Does she know how you feel about non low-N girls? Then she already knows without you having to say anything explicitly.

    I want her to judge and learn from her families behaviors, but then I’d really have to work around just insulting the adults in her life.

    Show/express disapproval/disappointment (facial expressions, long pauses…) without insulting.

    There are several “life without me” messages I’d like her to know, but I don’t see how I can smoothly talk with her about it without stirring up issues that will not make the Hamster work for me otherwise.

    Use someone else as an object lesson. Rollo has talked about this before (iirc, the older single woman at the juice bar of his gym complementing them (really, him) wistfully, and his wife realizing and telling him in the parking garage (car?) that she is glad she didn’t end up like that, etc.)

    Is there a way to do well in this situation at all? Do I just shut up and continue?

    Betas tell, alphas show (demonstrate).

  30. @BC: “Don’t tell, show.” sounds like good advice.

    Regarding N count: Well I’ve called the Sex and the City girls sluts, but that alone is a weaker message than if I’d expand on the logic behind *why* I think not having 10 sexual partners before kids life is good.

  31. Talk about the bitter taste of the red pill after reading this current post. (the comic at the top says it all). Cuckoldry is the absolute worst thing to let a woman do to you. You have essentially given her permission to mentally castrate you. What a fucking shit show intersexual relations have become thanks to the FI.

    The red pill has become a daily supplement i like to take to keep me focused on reality in case i revert back to romantic beta ideologies.

  32. Just venting, dunno if this is even on topic here.

    If I don’t lose my composture, I’m going to court tomorrow to file for divorce.
    This has been overdue for years and I hope I won’t chicken out.

    I received this woman many years ago in my house because she was in a bit of a problem. Thing is, she started acting as if she owned the place more or less from the beginning, and also started almost immediately to act as my wife (plus telling that to everybody) and doing everything possible to get me in bed – after she succeeded in getting me into that one wrong fuck, things went downhill: she started treating me like shit (she has a voice similar to crows, just louder), playing victim whenever she thought herself in danger of being kicked out, vicarious suicide attempts, constant whining, begging for sex, constant rebounds of crazyness and psycho-terror, dismissing me and my interests whenever she didn’t understand immediate benefit to her … in any case, I lost my job in less than a year after she enthroned herself in my life and it took me many years on the dole to find a new one.

    Now I’m living in a hotel since a week. This happened after she got weird (for the second time in the last 20 days) and kicked me from home because I am supposedly going to nude areas to “photograph nude people” (mostly older and very fat people), after she discovered that such an area exists near where I often walk for exercise.

    I’ve been sick of her and her antics for years but she has somehow managed to break my determination each time I was about to kick her to the curb. I hope this time I’ll get out of this troublesome affair. When I’m with her I’m depressed and overstressed. After these 5 days away from her, I notice myself much less edgy, and, apart from my worries planning my future, I’m becoming just fine.

    The good thing is we don’t have children, and, because I’ve taken legal measures to occlude my income, she’s very unlikely to ever get anything from me – here in the EU we don’t (yet) have those alimony-or-jail laws which exist in the US.

    Thanks for your interest.

  33. M Simon,

    Well I agree with your statement but I think we’re on different planes still. I’m not talking about what will really happen in real life. I’m talking about the narrative that is about to be dumped upon us; “The Cool Step-Dad” I’m talking about the fantasy narrative which will be reality in about 20 years.I can almost see one day where a biological dad will be held in much lower esteem than a ‘hero’ step-dad. The step-dad accommodated the FI, afterall. A real dad will be seen as somehow selfish, especially if his wife remains thin (don’t forget that fat acceptance is only at the training wheels phase right now). It’s all coming.

    You’re talking about how kids will feel about some pent-up beta step-dad taking out his frustrations on them after he realizes that his smoke show 190 pounder will only lay him about three times a year. That’s reality and your call is correct. But I’m talking media/FI narratives.

  34. The other part of the problem is that society gives women a pass or calls women a hero for being that single mom with kids. A woman can’t lose in society. She can have kids out of wedlock, go to the government for support, cheat on a boyfriend or husband and it’s all explained away as being “strong” or “empowered”.

    A man pulls any one of these stunts and he is labeled a deadbeat, a cheater, weak, etc…even if he’s trying to do right by his kids (and his ex is completely in the wrong). Side Note: forget going to the government for help as a man – no help there at all.

    Society is doing everyone a disservice by not holding women accountable (or moving the goal post when a woman is involved).

  35. The presumption with single mothers is that the man abandoned her and the children. That’s the default, assumed narrative even though it happens that way 5 % of the time (I mean the man leaving a committed pair bond scenario once the kid arrives.) Two people fucking while wasted on meth or Olde English doesn’t count.

    There is not a trace of cultural shaming being aimed towards single moms. They are the very most culpable demographic when it comes to what is killing this country and they are being held up as heroes ‘enduring their abandonment,’

  36. Great Post Rollo

    I contend Feminism is ALL about limiting Mr. Dickson.

    We say things like:
    The medium is the message.
    Alpha-Fuccks Beta-Bucks
    Consolidation of provisioning at Epiphany Phase

    But we don’t consciously realize what our grandfathers knew only too well. Women are not Rational Actors in society.

    I mean really women don’t even believe their own Bullshiit most of the time. Why should we? Feminism is predicated on convincing enough men that this is a good idea so society can go along with it.

    And to show how illogical women’s philosophy is, the MORE a man believes the equality dogma makes him LESS attractive to women. Since Alphas obviously are not Feminists.

    Feminism is nothing but a huge shiit test for men. If you believe as a man you are not exceptional then… ipso facto you are not alpha.

    And if an Feminazzi wants to argue I’ll just simply say this:
    Mrs Gloria “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle” Steinem got married to a MAN.

    A man would rather die than compromise his philosophical integrity.

  37. @Bnon – With sex, demonstrate, don’t explicate. Also, don’t ever ask her “do you like this?” You can observe her experiencing pleasure, there is no need to ask. Women hate men who act like this in bed. Now, you can be dominant, and “train them” but it’s never done out of a request, it has to be done from a dominant frame. Tell her to worship your cock, tell her to suck your dick like you coming is the most important thing on earth to her. Demand it, enforce it – but never “ask” or discuss. You’d be amazed at what she will do if you just don’t ask. If you do want to discuss it, do it by say describing how awesome a blowjob you got from another girl was, and how poorly she performs and how you miss getting good blowjobs. The frame is crucial. When dominant, you can literally get away with anything. At a family event, you could simply lean over and whisper, “i’m going to be in the guest room in 5 minutes, be there and give me the best blowjob of your life.” Fantasy, excitement, tension – this will result in explosive sex. Not “discussions”.

    But the larger issues of family and home and what you expect in an LTR and family? I think you should dominate her with your frame on these issues. Tell her YOUR PLAN and see if she wants to fit into it. Work on your value and life – and she will work harder to be part of it. You have create the frame – but she has to choose to submit to it. You can’t negotiate it, you can only notice it or not.

    I do have two concerns. One is you claimed her SMV was lower – are you attracted enough to her? The desire to fuck her, the intensity of your sexual attraction is important to being able to maintain dominance – not the “need”, but the raw desire. The second concern is about plates. Get that the second she has you nailed down, she’s likely to change behavior. Really internalize this, listen to all the guys here who learned that lesson painfully for you.

    And get that spinning plates is the only answer. Monogamy is a fool’s errand for a man. You can do it covert style, where she doesn’t know but actually knows, or Vulpine style where he selects a woman who wants to bring other girls into the mix. Or M. Simon style – a 40 year campaign of dread inducing, overt involvement with other women.

    But don’t be taken for granted. You are a catch, you always have options – even if you choose not to take them. Consider Rollo for a moment, and let’s take him at his word that he’s faithful (if he isn’t he could never admit it here, you guys have to know that). Do you not think part of what keeps his wife attracted to him is that other women are interested in him? Think about the industry he works in, “Pour Girls” – 8s or better, the nightclub milieu in Vegas and elsewhere – he’s constantly getting attention from women because of his physique and his status etc. This is like currency with other women.

    So even if he never “closes”, the demonstrated high value is crucial for his wife’s submission to his frame. That’s what sustainable and healthy dominance is – a woman gladly stepping into a man’s frame.

    Also consider that you may be able to do much better than her. So, put her through the paces. Tell her that you want to marry a young woman who wants to actually be a mother and wife, and recognizes the central role of a responsible bio-Dad in family life and hasn’t been a slut for a while to “find hersefl”.

    Find out what she’s learned from her family disaster. Fyi, as an aside, you mention that the real dad is an asshole, yeah, this always seems to be the story? I’m now an asshole to my ex – but for the 14 years that I was responsible for paying a big chunk of her bills nobody ever said that. The purpose of the “asshole absentee father” meme is to facilitate the disposal of fathers. While he may indeed be so, most times when I hear this my alarm bells go off and when I do some digging I find it is not true. My ex denigrated her father so badly when I first met her, but when I met him, he was nothing like she said. You should go meet her real father.

    Last. The single biggest predictor of how a woman will treat men is the behavior of her mother. My ex’s mom disposed of fathers and men like tissues – my ex followed suit. My daughter learned that I was disposable from them. I’m not sure how possible it is to overcome the bad training such women get in childhood.

    My two cents. Also, congratulations on internalizing so much of this already – if I had only done so when i was a young man and had asked the kinds of questions you are, my life would have been so much happier. Marrying badly is the single biggest mistake a man can make in his life, I know far too many men who’s lives have been ruined by doing so. Good on you for being cautious.

  38. @StringofCoins – “And perhaps being forced to lobotomize my fatherhood from my soul, simply so I could remain sane, and doing so alone, like a man, drove me into a psychotic break.”

    I’ve already completed that surgery and do you know what? It’s freeing – my daughter can do whatever the fuck she wants, I don’t really care anymore. She’s getting married next month, I’m not invited and I actually don’t really care. In fact, I’m happy I’m not paying the bills. I used to be like “I can’t understand how this could happen to me” – such thoughts don’t even get out of the barn with me now.

    Fatherhood is just another thankless role a man can strap on for ingrates for the most part in this society. Fathers are denigrated and devalued and minimized and treated like unnecessary interlopers. Sure, some very few guys make it work well but for most of us? It’s just another kick in the fucking balls, another indignity visited upon us.

    Fuck fatherhood. I’m out for me and myself now. If it was me or my daughter in a life or death situation, I’d choose me now. That was never the case in my entire life, but now I’m like, “Why is my life worth less than her’s?” A question I never once asked before the age of 51. Also consider that I taught her that she was more important than me. I never made her work for my affection or respect, it was all given freely and I just assumed I would be valued for being a good father. Lol, lo fucking l. I dedicated myself to being a father for 20+ years and by all reports – including her’s and my ex-wife’s at that time – I was. Get this, they changed history to suit their narrative. I could never be dismissed as the deadbeat, loser Dad when she was younger, but now I’m presented that way. After spending 400k raising her and always being there – what I did or didn’t do did not affect the script.

    I’m not saying this is something all fathers will live through. If you have made the traditional, nuclear family work and you are a respected, valued and loved father, good for you. But recognize that you are almost a fucking unicorn – the rest of us are getting chewed up and spit out despite mighty effort. Someone is always getting lucky when the wheel spins, consider that those rare men out there who don’t experience what guys like me and @String experience are the exception, not the rule.

    Society has killed fatherhood. Fine, fuck society too.

  39. @the d&f :- “I just don’t think there will be a rebellion by young people. They will already be treated like spoiled prima donnas by a society of mostly aging old people and be placed on pedestals.”
    Well, young women, certainly.
    It’s more likely, due to the near-inversion of the (native-born, hem-hem ..) demographic pyramid when that time comes, the boomers and the equally disgusting generations following will cause a shortage of incontinence pants when they realise their gold-plated retirement and care requirements are revealed for what they always were, a titanic Ponzi.
    And the call will come to shackle young men to the oars, along with immigrants/open-source-slaves (or whatever they are).
    (I say this as a convicted Senior myself. Or “horrible old man”, as women revere me).

    How about .. “Fairness Law #XXIV : no boy is permitted cohabitation with any female (and her inevitable pre-purchased kids by A. N. Other) until he’s spent twenty years in the salt-mines/cube-farm.
    At that point he will be presented with a post-Wall minger or genetically-impaired young tubster chosen by a Facebook Group.
    Refusal not an option, because Jail.”
    (where all feminist political imperatives seem to end, for Men.

    Funny that .. almost like they lack the intellectual grunt or even persistence to think things through to their inevitable outcomes .. it’s all stick, all the time, from those pests, and this is the only stick they have. Even Rev. Jim Jones promised “jam tomorrow”. Yet they’re hurt and baffled when guys just give it all the Finger and go walkabout).

  40. Signor Farfalla
    July 6th, 2015 at 7:17 am

    The narrative of the “cool step-dad” might appear in the media, but I doubt it will in real life. Women already despise the betas who provide for her and his children, what do you think they feel for a beta doing it for someone else’s children? They might need that providing at some point and show the necessary feelings to secure it, but beyond that they’ll count down the days until they don’t need him anymore.

  41. bnon
    July 6th, 2015 at 5:45 am

    My attitude was that “n” doesn’t matter when it comes to a LTR. What matters is that she has oneitis for you. That may be more difficult for high “n” girls. So what? NEXT.

    What worked for me is that I kept going through them until one stuck. No matter what. And I kept spinning plates. And her attitude was “I want you more than they do. I’ll out perform and outlast them.” Of course her attitude was terrible when the plate spinning stopped (kids came along).

    But the kids are grown. I am back to a spinning plates attitude.

  42. Notice by The Management:- “@sanchez, she is a textbook BPD. “

    @Dirty Sanchez;- I know the terms NPD/BPD are tossed around like pigskins in the ‘Sphere, but this appears to be the Real Deal.
    I’d prepared a long and tedious message explaining exactly this, Every klaxon started screaming “Dive!Dive!!” reading your description.

    Like the Landlord says. Run, don’t look back.
    I don’t care what “reasons” you have for a minute more of continued association, and make sure you have witnesses to any contact. Danger Will Robinson danger!
    Run until you can’t hear shrieks of ” I’m not going to be ignored, Dan”.

  43. @scribblerg:

    Okay, I’ll not ask what she likes but just try and see how she reacts. I could now say that it would be nice, though, if I would not just have to do the acting alone, her doing just the reacting, but I guess I know you guys perspective on that already 😛

    As I said, I don’t intent to go exclusive with her now or anytime soon, you might have overread that. When I have access to sex, I enjoy flirting (“pickup”) more than the fucking.

    I’m in a neighboring state now and she literally comes over to get the AF. She knows I’m not the boyfriend, but given the distance also hasn’t asked me to not bang other chicks. I’ll move back soon and I see that coming, thought. I have no fear of losing her, but I have no plans other than keeping her as fuckbuddy and friend, I have no narrative to cue her in.

    tl;dr is that it’s already going good. I’m just asking a) how to show her how to behave in life in a redpillian way, for her own good (I guess you guys are saying not by “appealing to her logical brain” direct, but by showing) b) how to hook her to me (possibly without cooking up a scenario that breaks her when it comes down).

    I like the plate idea, but I doubt many women will play along: To her friends etc. that I’ll inevitable meet, she will want to present me as her boyfriend. I figure that must be the most common situation, no? You know I like dating and doing sports with my girls – if a woman is a proper plate, doesn’t she want to be the gf to the outside world? How to play it straight and make the girl warrant her face?

  44. Signor Farfalla
    July 6th, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Yeah. I got that. (After several tries). Thing is the whole FI is starting to leak. The tires are frayed. In time the wheels will be coming off.

    I admit it looks bad now. But things are not working. And there is a small but significant part of the White Knight party that gets what has to be done. Of course the FI Party is useless. That small contingent – (government out of everything) is growing. For a number of reasons I will not go into here. I’ll just say that they have allies (on some issues) even with the FI Party.

    Of course this is about American Politics. Europe is a mess. It is the old story of economic collapse and war being the corrective for excess FI. Ah well.

  45. Rollo – “So yes, feminism is in fact about ‘limiting dick’ by socially, legislatively, personally and psychologically facilitating the selecting out and opting in on what best serves a woman’s short term and long term sexual strategy needs – throughout her entire life, not just around her Epiphany Phase.”

    This of course has the added benefit of devaluing men generally, dick in particular and making it far easier for the lesbians that are the intellectual and philosophical drivers of the movement to gain access to a wider variety, and larger number of young women.

    One thing find interesting about the essay by Chris is that his description of the difference between gay and straight marriage is the lack of sexual fidelity and the focus on some other connection which to build the relationship upon. This might be an interesting option for the militant MGTOW crowd, and worth some thought by the rest of the ‘sphere. Two straight guys get married, hire a surrogate to bare children. They spin plates, have heterosexual relationships outside the “marriage” but build their family as any legally paired couple. Legalizing gay marriage just removes the sexual component from consideration of what that sort of relationship really is. Socially this could be a radical redistribution of wealth and potential wealth.

    Imagine the horror as GoGrrls approach the wall, and find that some of the better betabux prospects are marrying each other and starting families free of women (except daughters) but not actually leaving the sexual marketplace. Imagine that as a trend in the society. Imagine the men providing for one another as a priority. This would be the death of betabux if such a thing caught on especially if coupled with reliable and easy to use male birth control.

    What everyone seems to miss is that technology is always a two way street. The science that allows women to have kids past the usual, natural, age of fertility allows men to have children without the need for active participation on the part of the woman. Yes a womb must be rented, but that’s a growth opportunity in the third world. Buy eggs, rent womb, tada! babies without moms. The whole ordering of human societies is to provide for the successful gestation of children. This is where the entire protect and provide model comes from. What gets overlooked is that when the technology is sufficiently advanced the humans begin to specialize, and the ultimate specializtion of the female is to be a prostitute or surrogate mother. This is woman’s single competitive advantage versus man’s, Individual specializations are just matters of vocational skill sets. The aggregates are what’s important to drive civilization and society.

  46. scribblerg
    July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am

    I enjoy acting like Babe Ruth (calling the shot) and then hitting it out of the park. I tell LTR all the time “I’m going to dominate you and you are going to love it.” She often rebels. Until she can’t take it any more and comes begging. “Dominate me. It makes me feel good.” And making her beg for what she “hates” makes me feel good.

  47. scribblerg
    July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am

    I should add that calling the shots Game is not one I would play with plates. But she has been in my Frame so long she can’t even get out when she rebels. She likes to do the “equalist” thing and accuses me of “power games”. And I tell her “That power is why you want me. And I’m going to overpower you. Because I have. Every time.” “You have never won. And you are not going to win this time. Either.”

  48. scribblerg
    July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am

    There are some bad dads out there. The LTRs step dad was one of those. I have lived with murderers. Quite a few of them when I was in an OLaw MC gang. And his vibes were worse by many orders of magnitude. Her real father was an Alpha among men (mafia) but a total Beta among women. He abandoned his daughter because the mother was not of the right (Italian) family. He gave in to family pressure.

    And her mother? Vibes in harmony with the step-dad. Scum of the earth. Sold out her daughter for a meal ticket. I disliked that woman so much that it was all I could do to talk to her (infrequently and extremely limited) on the phone.

  49. @Badpainter:

    That raises the question why best buddies now shouldn’t get married just for state cash in the US!?
    Depending on where you life, the stigma that comes with it should be bearable in the current social climate.

    I find a Wikipedia page on mixed-orientation marriage and same-sex marriage, but no discussion of same-sex-same-orientation marriage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-orientation_marriage
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#cite_ref-1

  50. Ah, great for you. As for specifics on this, truly I’d want to hear from Vulpine and YaReally and others on how to do groom this plate as my experience is not so strong in optimal game wrt to LTRs(i always had partially great natural game). It seems like you have more of the basics down than I realized, I’m fucking jealous that your shit is wired so tight at 30.

    But I can give you advice on sex. First off, a woman who doesn’t give good blowjobs is often a redflag for me. It’s how I tell if a woman is really into me or not, as a women who’s hot for me will go wild on my cock. If it’s a young women, I will stop her and ask if she’s ever been shown how to give a good blowjob? Stop right there and think about the frame you would have to be in to even ask her such a question? Many women might feign offense or say, “fine, I won’t blow you then” or feel bad or get upset. But if you are coming from a place where she is trying to win you over, she will not.

    So, if she doesn’t know how to give good blowjobs, I train her. But the young chick who is actually ignorant of what a good blowjob is these days is quite rare, given they are the porn generation. And I’ll only train a really willing candidate – this is fun, only happened to me twice. Each time, we both loved it – and my coaching was received enthusiastically and only reinforced my dominance.

    But it’s more likely she’s withholding something from you due to a fucked up dynamic between you. Consider it a shit test – she’s seeing what she can get away with in your world. So, the best thing to do is this. After making it clear (in bed, not outside of it) that her blowjob skills are not up to your standards, the next time you are having sex and she’s giving you her half-baked blowjob, just stop. Grab her head and pull it off your cock, get up and end the session.

    When she freaks, simply tell her that you don’t enjoy her blowjobs and frankly had something better to do than sit through another shitty blowjob. If she escalates, don’t do so yourself, just leave or make her leave. Don’t argue about it, tell her you already let her know what would make you happy but she doesn’t want to do so.

    This also happens in the midst of relationships, and a decline in blowjob enthusiasm is a great signal that her desire for you has waned. Influencing the power dynamic is what’s called for, not conversation which will only reduce your value and attraction to you.

    If she can’t figure out how to give you a good blowjob, it’s because she isn’t trying hard enough. If she’s really confused, find a porn video that shows you the kind of blowjob you want. If you are a dirty pig like me, you can bring your iPad into bed and prop it up so she can see a good BJ while attempting to do so.

    But if she won’t take this coaching? She’s just giving you a hint of what kind of bitch she will be once she has power over you (like your kids and the legal right to your support after she boots you out). Blowjobs are the “submission barometer”. Even when they are wild, when it’s a dominant woman it’s nowhere near as fun as when a submissive woman goes wild on your cock. Dominant women give vicious blowjobs, but for them it’s exhibitionist and about them demonstrating how wild they are, but there is no submission or real love involved. There is nothing like a good blowjob from a woman who has submitted to your frame and enjoys being there.

    Last. I also am intensely focused on a woman’s pleasure, and much like Vulpine, I’m expert at arousing women and making them cum. For me, blowjobs are not the rote portion of starting a sexual encounter, they are an integral part of the sexual free for all and mauling a woman will be subjected to while I’m using her like my personal porn star. (I’ve told several young woman that they are my personal porn stars and they all loved it, lol).

    I make sure I’m using all of a woman’s pleasure centers and confirm that I’m on the right track by noticing signs of pleasure. Women have 4 different parts of their body where can be stimulated. Nipples, vulva/lips, clitoris and g-spot. Working these in sequence or simultaneously are the way to victory. Try this next time. Start off the session by making out and using your hands and mouth on her tits and genitals. The alternate fucking her and going down on her, fucking her with your fingers while you do so – but take your time. If she’s not wet, you are screwing up. If she’s tight, don’t for your way in, instead see this as feedback telling you that she needs more stimuliation. Get the clit, the g-spot and do a lot of running your fingers around on her tummy and inner thighs. Also pay a lot attention to her lips and vulva – and don’t be too rough or fast.

    If you aren’t a complete nincompoop, she will get very aroused by all this. Then, just move up her body to her face and start facefucking her. Work this in with the alternation of you going down on her and fucking her. Also, take your time. And if you are going blow quickly, do so but make sure she knows this isn’t the end, that you have another shot or two. Facefucking demonstrates what a good blowjob is without a word. Deep, messy and perhaps even a little uncomfortable for her.

    If she doesn’t get the point after this – well, I’d kick her to the curb. Fyi, having sexual mastery is crucial to dominating a woman. In a relationship I often tell women that I “own” their orgasm and they know it. I make no bones about who is boss sexually. Even with women who are supposedly dominant, they love being used and actually submitting the most, but usually can only do so for a short period of time. Which is even better cuz then you can be her “bad boy”…

  51. The single biggest predictor of how a woman will treat men is the behavior of her mother.

    This is an absolute truth. You HAVE to look at the mother. It is predictive greater than 90% of the time, and the other 10% are outliers that you can’t base your behavioral judgment on. The mothers behavior is the best predictor of the daughter almost all the time. Get a handle on how her mother relates to men, and you understand what is actually inside that cutie you are attracted to, pretty much *all* the time.

    On the broader issue of the OP — cuckolding is going to become the norm. It already is in process of that, as you say, Rollo, de facto due to pre-emptive cuckolding (marrying a single mother and raising the kids of another man). Post-marital cuckolding is only going to rise. The impact of gay marriage on it will be this: “straight guys are just fucking jealous and insecure, and should learn from gay guys that going monogamish is better for everyone”, and so guys will be shamed into accepting this socially — never mind that a straight guy’s sex options are not similar to those of either a gay man or a straight woman. This is coming, folks, it’s already being warmed up in various blog posts and articles — guys who want monogamy in marriage are soon going to be shamed as being controlling, domineering, insecure assholes who have a lot to learn from their more enlightened and laid back gay comrades.

    Siempre, amigos! Hasta la Victoria!

  52. scribblerg
    July 6th, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Spot on advice. The LTR has been behaving badly of late. But she was also getting hungry for contact. She brought her bowl (she likes to clean me up before a BJ) and went to work unasked. And broke up with me again a day and a half later. The shit tests never end.

    But I’m thinking of taking your advice. “You want to repair relations? Get your bowl.” Or maybe just handing it to her.

  53. @bnon

    As goofy ideas go I think this one has potential for being the most subversive to the FI’s political/social control wing. Good news is Hollywood already presented the friendly positive face of it: My Two Dads, Three Men and a Baby. Now I’d argue those pieces of entertainment were beards or proxies for arguing in favor of gay marriage/gay adoption, but they also argue in favor or new non-sexual form of marriage and family formation. A form of family that although lacking a sexual component is not altogether different from traditional marriage in its intent, and in some ways mimics the greater purpose and ideals of monasticism.

    To be clear I am not advocating this as a good idea, but more as a good idea for thoughtful contemplation as we confront the decay and collapse of traditional family structures and the impact on society at large.

  54. Haha, @scribblerg, I see you wanted to write explicitly about sex. A little in my face, but thanks.
    Yeah, she didn’t want to go down the first few times. I read about and considered the redpill way and wrote her in an email (even before she gave me oral) “You’re going to blow me next time and you must swallow.”
    She did when we saw each other, even if it took me a long time to cum.
    I’m not an expert on what fraction of hooking a girl really comes from the act of fucking, and I have no experience with “facefucking”, let alone with a girl that’s almost 10 years younger than me. I take away the suggestion to go quite rough on the girl, and since I’m “free of outcome”, I’ll try to turn it up.

    Nevermind that my first question was about how to show her that she shouldn’t drop chances of happiness by becoming slutty, after we might divide paths.

  55. @ProphetDT, honestly your best starting point would be to pick up the books and read through them.

    Alternatively you could read through my ‘best of’ pages at the top of the blog.

    If you’re a teenage guy I’d also suggest the high school forum on SoSuave.

    Beyond that, the men who comment here are always ready to help.

  56. “I’m looking for a man to dominate me” LOL

    Of course.

    Now, when that first surfaced a month or so ago (I think that’s when it was), my initial thought is that it was a fake account being used by someone who wanted to get his rocks off (or potentially hers, but less likely). I’m still not convinced it isn’t that. Her answer at the tail end is too stereotypically phrased in some ways to be that believable.

    Still, the medical professional who eventually perfects penis augmentation surgery in such a way as to permit full functionality with enhanced size and girth (very hard to do, given the biology involved … it’s not like getting a boob job) will be a zillionnaire and probably the most famous man in history.

  57. Novaseeker
    July 6th, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    It is interesting that hypergamy is getting so open that it is letting its secrets out.

    The first GF taught me “I’m looking for a man to dominate me” but not quite so explicitly. More like “Do this. Don’t do that.”

    It wasn’t until I started hanging around here that I got a solid intellectual framework. Thank you Rollo.

  58. The Cartoon is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO True

    Even better is when you make the judgement on them that they are wearing a ring (just as a slight ‘push’) and they validate by saying “the ring can come off”

  59. @Sanchez:

    “You will kill yourself if you do.”

    What Rollo says here is not hyperbole, it is fact. If you don’t end up trying suck start an S&W, or feature as the guest of honor at a private necktie party, you will slowly and painfully kill yourself with stress.

    No contact from this moment. Get a lawyer yesterday. Talk to him and only to him. He will talk to her lawyer. That includes any court appearances you might have to make with her. Do not even acknowledge her existence. Talk to your lawyer and the judge only.

    Come back tomorrow and tell us you did it. We’ll be here.

  60. The bottom line, as I have explained many times to the guys at Reddit, is this: an attractive woman is always fucking someone. If she isn’t fucking you, she’s fucking someone else. It doesn’t matter if this woman is someone you are not involved with, someone you are flirting with, someone you are the boyfriend of, or someone you are living with or married to. If she is attractive and she isn’t sexing you, she is sexing someone else. End of.

    It wasn’t always this way, because in years of yore there were different social mores, but today every woman has wide open sex access only limited by their attractiveness, and so if the woman is attractive (and if you find her even halfway attractive, she’s attractive enough for it to “count”) in 2015, she’s fucking someone. Are there some exceptions? Sure, but they’re needle in a haystack like exceptions such that you can’t waste your time looking for them unless you are a religious guy who has no other choice but to do so. For everyone else, you always must assume there is another guy (or various guys) inside her regularly — she’s being filled on the regular.

    Here is the deal: people say that women don’t like sex as much as men but this is bullshit. The fact is that women love cock. They all do. They just don’t like most cocks. They love a small number of cocks, and when they get access to one of them, they go wild. That’s just how women are when the biological consequences of sex are removed and when the economic dependence on men is removed — they gravitate to the best cock they can find, and the ones who are attractive all have a cock they want. If it isn’t yours, then the problem is that you need to be the cock they want — you need to become that cock. That’s really all this is about, and all the red pill is about. Learn and understand.

  61. @Novaseeker:

    If what you say is true, mine was one of the 10%. Parents were fine. Maybe a little too doting on her, though it was hard to tell. She does have a witch of a cousin who encouraged her to divorce. I do not think she respected her parents’ opinion of the matter. She respected the cousin because the cousin is a commitmentphobe, and she only seems to respect people who treat her that way.

  62. “It wasn’t always this way, because in years of yore there were different social mores . . .”

    This was written in the 30’s:

    By and large social mores to do not determine what people do, only how careful they are in going about what they do.

  63. Huh? Comment on what?

    bnon’s 22yo nurse?

    Uh…

    I hope he has another plate or 6 so as to curb any oneitis symptoms that will wreck the situation.

    Aside from that “22 year-old in a culture that promotes whoredom” dynamic, the bedroom communication thing is easy to address.

    My bedroom is a sanctuary of the positive: no negativity allowed. And I have “house rules” to protect that. My bedroom is my nest. It is the core of the safety and security of my home. It’s the “safe room”.

    When negativity comes up, at any point, I’ll get up, grab whoever, and lead us away to the couch in the living room to settle that business. So, in essence, it’s a place for pleasing and sleeping soundly exclusively. It’s not a place to discuss work drama, watch TV, or complain about bills, or any “crap” besides fucking and sleeping.

    The result is an inherent trust and open communication while within those walls: whatever discussed therein is for the sole purpose of pleasing, or helping to please. Any criticisms are for a common good. This is insisted upon, demanded, and protected by me. My house, my rules.

    So, when something should arise regarding technique, it’s delivered in a “help you to help me” cooperative format. Moreover, when “talking dirty”, it’s in a “shared fantasy” format. For example: “I’d love to see a gal’s face peeking between our crotches when I’m fucking you like this”. She’d reply something like: “She could be alternating between licking your balls and my clit.” Us. We. Not, “her and I”.

    There isn’t much to it, it’s simply a matter of a learning curve. If bnon can’t tell a chick “suck it harder”, “don’t forget the balls: ball-work is very important”, or “don’t stroke it so hard, try loosening your hand a bit”, then, he’s fucked. Perceived “rapport” has nothing to do with the situation. If a dude, who is fucking a woman, can’t talk to the woman he’s fucking?

    Psshf… he won’t be fucking her for long.

    It’s like kissing a girl for the first time: I used to be terrible at it. The reason being is that “paralysis by analysis” would make the moments pass. The same deal here: if you’re too busy thinking of the “proper” words for the criticism, then the moment passes, and it’s even tougher to find an appropriate time, or words, to give the feedback. Just spit out whatever you have to say: “Oop! It’s too sensitive for that!” “Ahh… keep that up! That really feels good!”

    I was shocked to hear why women enjoy giving me blowjobs: it’s because I give them feedback to let them know how they’re doing.

    “Really? That’s it? It has nothing to do with my delicious spuzz?”

    “Ahh…”, although it seems cheesy because of all the porn people watch, is, ironically, something people don’t hear enough of in the sack. Which is kind of sad, since I always like hearing things like “keep up the good work!” and “Nice job!” in other areas of my life. Why should the bedroom not be a good place for “atta-boys” and “you go gurl”?

    So long as you keep the feedback positive, it’s always welcomed. “Yes”, “more”, and “good” are appropriate; “no”, “stop”, and “don’t” aren’t.

    “I like that, but I’d like it more if…” See where I’m going? Encouraging words, not hurtful words (unless it’s part of the fantasy talk), work wonders for compliance.

    I wish I could post some of the pictures… “Wait, just like that. Don’t move. You GOTTA see how beautiful your banged-out pussy is right now!” *grabs camera, click, click, view* “See!!?”
    “Oh my… you’re right… that’s super hot!”
    I’ve got a few beauties… 😛

    The bedroom is for sharing good stuff. Any other stuff just doesn’t go in that room. And if you start from that baseline understanding, everything else is easier.

    It’s silly when you sit back an look at the idea that a guy can stick his dick in a girl’s mouth, but can’t put some good words in her ear? If you’ve gotten so far as to have a chick naked in your bed, odds are, a few misplaced words will be hard-pressed to louse it up.

    After sex is usually a good time to administer any criticisms you would like to see for changes. “It would be awesome if you try XYZ sometime. When you this, it’s like this, but if you XYZ, it would be better because XYZ.”

    I know it feels like she’s performing to a script, and that can be awkward. But, she is performing to YOUR script, and that takes some getting used to for a post-blue-piller. When you see her acting out your script, learn to enjoy it, because, really, it’s fucking awesome to experience. The “awkwardness” stems from the beta man-shame and guilt we’ve been living with until the red pill. “I’m making her do ‘dirty’, ‘slutty’ stuff.” should be seen, instead, as “I’m letting her do the naughty stuff she wants to do.”
    She wouldn’t be doing it if she didn’t want to, right? Unless you’re holding a gun to her head, chances are that your script is better than the one she is currently using. So long as you’re framing it as helping her be your custom sex slave (positive), then there should be no issues with making her better at sex. She’ll likely thank you for it, and that will be a pleasant surprise, I’m sure.

    Beyond the sexual, the “Red Pill” stuff is generally addressed through general laments and discussions of societal “norms” and “trends”. Without being at each situation, there’s really no advice beyond “the first rule of fight club is…” Don’t be forthcoming about how you’ve formulated your opinions, and you should be pretty well set. Be vague, and deliver the reasoning as “experience based” or some such “live and learn” expression if prompted by something like “Did you read The Game?” or “Where’d you read that?”

    That way, you’ll be demonstrating mastery, not painting yourself as a recovering douchebag that she’ll suddenly suspect and start testing anew.

    ……..

    Far too much good stuff here to address it all. And, far too much on my plate this week…

  64. If what you say is true, mine was one of the 10%. Parents were fine. Maybe a little too doting on her, though it was hard to tell.

    Oh it can happen that way, too, unfortunately, although it is much less common. Unfortunately rules of thumb are just that — approximations that are mostly true, but sometimes false.

    In my case I married a virgin Roman Catholic who was 23 (yes she was a real virgin, I learned that on the wedding night, for those of you who may say otherwise) and very religious. We were divorced 7 years later. What I overlooked was her mother — a divorced woman who really doesn’t get men at all and who is a controller (hence her divorce, although her husband was himself no choir boy). The divorce was one red flag, her controlling ways were another. Looking back on it now, those both should have led me to pass on my ex-wife, but I didn’t because she was a 23 year old religious RC virgin. So, yes, I do believe in the “look at the mother” rule, although certainly there are women who come from unproblematic families and with mothers who relate perfectly well with men who still go EPL on you — there is no silver bullet, unfortunately, but only rules based on approximation.

  65. By and large social mores to do not determine what people do, only how careful they are in going about what they do.

    Sure, but it’s harder. It’s like locking the door. Some people who are determined to get through the door will find a way to do so, despite the fact that it is locked, but many others will pass. Social mores are the same. When you unlock the social mores door, you get more transgression, even through there were always transgressors under the locked social mores regime as well. How unlocked things are matters for behavior en masse — it doesn’t prevent the die-hard transgressors from transgressing, however.

  66. “Some people who are determined to get through the door will find a way to do so . . .”

    . . . but smart people bypass it for the second story, back window that got left open.

  67. “In my case I married a virgin Roman Catholic who was 23 (yes she was a real virgin, I learned that on the wedding night, for those of you who may say otherwise) and very religious. We were divorced 7 years later. What I overlooked was her mother — a divorced woman who really doesn’t get men at all and who is a controller (hence her divorce, although her husband was himself no choir boy). The divorce was one red flag, her controlling ways were another. Looking back on it now, those both should have led me to pass on my ex-wife, but I didn’t because she was a 23 year old religious RC virgin.”

    Also my story in a nutshell. Except mine was 20, and was a virgin because “sex is bad” and poor self-esteem, instead of religion.

    I figured since she was a virgin, she would imprint on me like a baby duck or some shit. Barely knew the mother before marriage, but she turned out to be most domineering woman I have ever meet. And insane. (medicated, committed, etc)

    Mother is still married to the same guy after like 3 decades…but he is of such low self-esteem now, that there is no way he would ever recover. She has literally sucked the life out of him.

    Learned my lesson the hard way, don’t ignore serious red flags just because she’s a virgin.

  68. Novaseeker
    July 6th, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    What religion no longer teaches is “find the man of your dreams and surrender to him”.

    It seems like the men and women of Dad’s generation got that. More or less. It has disappeared from the culture. Mom surrendered to Dad.

    Told #1 Daughter “Find a dominant man you like and surrender to him. It will make you happy”. After a long equalist tirade and further discussion she said, “Never discuss the subject with me again.” I’m waiting to see if she gets it. If ever.

    I should talk to Mom about giving the Daughter some advice.

  69. @Vulpy – And you wonder why I point in your direction.

    @Bnon – Strange reaction, you asked a sexually explicit question and got a sexually explicit response. I didn’t “want” to go there, but it’s not uncommon to be graphic about sex here, or sheepish about it. One is tempted to accuse you of “clutching your pearls”…

    A few more points.

    “Rough” – As long as you don’t cause more pain than pleasure. Many guys seem to think that just fucking a chick like a madman is all there is to being “rough” but if you talk to women, you find that often times guys are causing them more pain than they know. Learn how to stimulate a women, learn how to get her open and ready for you and then escalate the force, but inside of her arousal.

    What I’ve found is that the normal women want to enveloped and taken and manhandled and fucked hard and fast – but beyond that? Slapping around? Real abuse? The only women I knew who were into that were psychos and after a few fucks I walked. I don’t enjoy hurting anyone – man or woman. But I will fuck her so she can’t walk right the next day – but smiles instead of wincing when she thinks about it.

    Bedroom Sanctuary – Vulpine and I are on the same wavelength. I don’t have a TV in the bedroom (or anywhere now) and never did. It’s a place for sleeping and sex, and I make it very conducive to both. High threadcount sheets, super high quality queen or better mattress – spend 1500 on a good mattress if you never have, it will change your life. I consider the aesthetics of my bed – it’s all white and looks like you are jumping into a soft, dreamy cotton ball. Chicks love it, and I do too.

    As for the positivity he’s also right. Good sex is about arousal, communication and trust but that’s inside of a sound relationship, and I don’t think you have one if she’s acting like this. Sure you can make her suck your dick and swallow, but how about her wanting to do so because she knows it pleases you without asking? How about her doing so while she masturbates without being asked? How about being playful with it? The women I’ve been with over the past couple of years have all been amazed by how much fun I make sex.

    They also get super respected by me and listened to. If a woman seems to not be into it – again, I’m observant – I slow down or change up or deal with it. If she can’t come for some reason, I don’t make a big deal of it. It happens to me every once in a while at my age and I don’t make a big deal of that either. My advice was really more about you taking back the power and shocking the dynamic between you.

    The last plate I blew off was due to her becoming less enthusiastic in the sack. I tried some coaching but she was becoming more resistant so I ended it. She was surprised, I was like – you have changed, I don’t know what it is. Have you met someone else? Of course she had and her lust was getting diffused. Got it – I’ve had enough obligation sex to last a lifetime as a formerly married man, I don’t tolerate it for a second now.

    She’s still a plate. I have three like her now, all young women that I’ve fucked but have sort of moved on but still keep in touch? One has already come back between boyfriends, and the other two are both “in love” for now, lol. I keep them in orbit because in both cases the guys are beta as fuck and are not doing the right thing I bet I’ll fuck both of them again within 6 months. But in any event, when it stops being fun, I’m out.

    Sexual mastery is worth working on. Another Red Pill guy I know thinks you can kind of “imprint” on a woman if you really get her off and get her engine in overdrive. I think that this is due to the fact that so many guys don’t bother learning. There are a ton of resources on the web to learn about anatomy and little technique. The rest is just about being playful and observant.

    More than a few women have told me they never came like I made them come and I don’t think it’s due to my superhuman powers, I think it’s because most of you guys suck at sex.

    Just sayin’…

  70. Save your energy and stop trying to be the man women want, they don’t deserve it.

  71. My story of a family member that got cucked for 10 years was featured on Heartiste’s website. Here it is:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/the-ten-year-cuck/

    This type of stuff doesn’t really sink in until you witness it or experience it first hand.

    Case in point, I knew a couple (let’s just say they were very close to me, as one was related to me). They had been married for 15 years. The man did everything to raise their social economical standing from near poverty to mid-middle class. He did just that through hard work and dedication. They both seemed to be in love and for quite some time (at least it seemed to me, I was very young at the time). Years pass and they had three children together. We see them at family gatherings and they look to be very much in love with each other but as we know here, in these parts, looks can be very deceiving. Especially on the woman’s part. Anyway, fast forward some years and the man grows suspicious about his woman’s love for him. She acts distant in general and starts to come home later than usual. The man then purchases a voice recorder and places it underneath her truck’s dashboard.

    what was revealed later, shocked him so much, he went on a deep depression for about a week before confronting the matter. I’ve heard the tapes, and a woman’s id is really the most unfiltered, debased, and crass piece of shit known to man… but eh, back to the story.

    He confronts her about this and she doesn’t deny it. He asked how long, and she says, “I’ve been seeing him for 2 years now.” He doesn’t puss out at this level and beg for forgiveness but does something so evil, I won’t even bother to post it here. A man can only take so much before revealing his id too, I suppose.

    She leaves him alone with their three children, but for him, he still feels something’s not right. So he gets a paternity test on his three children and he comes to find out his youngest child, his 10 year old one, is not his.

    He was cuckolded for 10 years.

    Let that sink in.

    10 years.

    He banished the child from his two others and now the bastard child lives with her. You can only imagine the damage this causes to the other siblings but the bitch doesn’t really care. At her very core, her id is the only thing that matters. Damn be all.

    I still see both of them from time to time and while the man has tried to raise himself, he can’t. He’s too old now. He’s invested well over half his life into a traitor and for what? Nothing. He’s nearing 60 and the other thing that keeps him alive is his two legitimate children. As for the woman? She’s currently with some man who pulled the exact same thing to his own family, just to be with her. They’re currently broke but it doesn’t matter to her.

    I believe heartiste here said it himself. Something along the lines of, ” when the love is gone, it’s almost as if a woman doesn’t even know you…”
    Well, she’s in love with her badboy and knowing that she’s nearing poverty doesn’t matter to her.

    That’s enough #realtalk for the day.

    It’s been close to 2 years since I wrote that to Heartiste and she is still to this day, with a new lover. Her current lover isn’t the father of the then ten year old son (she had it with another man she met one night at a night club). So in a way, her new lover is getting cucked, too. I mentioned in the story that the original cuck did something very horrible to her and what he basically did was feigned sex for one night and stuck a sharp spiked object inside her vagina out of pure anger. This caused her to never have children again. She never went to the police about this (my guess is she felt embarrassed about the situation), so i guessed it worked out partially into his favor.

    I use to pass by his house on my way to work and I would often find him sitting alone in front of his house reading a bible. I would speak to him whenever I had the chance to but I could always sense a feeling of desperation emanating from him. He wanted this nightmare to end. I’m willing to bet he had plenty of suicidal thoughts but never went with it because his oldest biological daughter, was having her first son and he wanted to see him. Currently, his oldest biological son is getting married and this also gives him a sense of purpose in life.

    But before anyone brings this up, the commentators here have to understand that this man is nearing 60 years old. (side note: This is a danger in starting an LTR with someone significantly (think 20 years) younger than you, in that while you rot away, she still may have more options than you later on). He invested nearly everything he had for his then wife and family. After his wife left him, he just couldn’t go on into the dating scene anymore. After a certain point, a man can become physically and psychologically beaten to the point of no return. The subconscious is insidious like that. He also can’t just take off into a new land and have vacations just for the fuck of it. His finances took a deep hit with his wife also.

    While this whole situation may anger and leave some men reading with a bitter taste in their mouths, Rollo is correct in stating that hypergamy is entirely pragmatic. Hypergamy didn’t care about his suffering and bouts of depression. All it cared about was having a new lover who was taller, better looking, more fit, and allegedly crassly put by her, “bigger dicked”. Hypergamy will cause a woman to leave your ass at a moments notice once her id takes over. It doesn’t give a fuck about “the family” or “the children”. All it cares about is fulfilling its feral desire.

    To this day, I still haven’t forgotten the cuck’s screams over the phone when he found out the child that he took care of for 10 years wasn’t his. It was the shit nightmares are made of.

  72. EPL?

    @M. Simon —

    It’s a reference to “Eat, Pray, Love”, by Elizabeth Gilbert. Basically the Gospel of Frivorce according to Elizabeth.

  73. “Hypergamy will cause a woman to leave your ass at a moments notice once her id takes over. It doesn’t give a fuck about “the family” or “the children”. All it cares about is fulfilling its feral desire.”

    100% truth… And no, dear reader, you are not different than other men. That kind of arrogance cost me a pretty nice house, over $500,000, half my retirement, full-time access to my kids, and a shitload of emotional scar tissue.

  74. Paul Elam once defined hypergamy as the female tendency to use males as appliances (dildos, atms, human shields) and discard them when they are no longer useful. Maybe the second best definition I’ve heard after GBFM’s “alpha fucks and beta bucks”.

  75. Rollo…the more i read here, the more it’s clear for me to never get married. I have one child and all i want is another one. Not necessarily from the same woman.

  76. scribblerg,

    I put your advice to work this afternoon – perfect. Gave her feedback. She liked that.

    Giving her a hint of what I wanted (handed her the bowl) didn’t work but telling her “get your bowl” did. Worked all my usual dread games on her plus one I haven’t used for a while – “no kisses unless I can spread your lips with your juices” – very nice kisses I must say. Sloppy. She doesn’t like sloppy. But for me….

    As you point out – they will do just about anything for you if they want you bad.

    When we were done. “Did you like being dominated. Powerless?” “Yes!”

  77. Simon, it really sound strange to me how you do all these “overt” kind of domination. This mostly don’t work for me

  78. scribblerg (SG)
    July 6th, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Loved the comment. And your point about paying attention – well you know me on that issue.

    And for all you aspiring Alphas. You have figured out how to get her in bed with tingles. You must then deliver “the best sex I have ever had.” She will tell her friends. Or just have a smile that lasts for days. Which is the same thing. As SG points out. Study, study, study. Five days planning, two days work.

    And if you are not so good at first? Don’t take it to heart. Get another plate and practice some more.

  79. ChocDoc
    July 6th, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    Save the overt stuff for the LTR. Otherwise just demonstrate. The LTR is so used to my Frame, I can talk about it. But that is a bad idea early on. You want to be with her (among others) for about a year before you try overt. And if you try – see how she responds. If you get resistance save it for another day.

    It is a Dance. If she can’t do the move try an easier one. It is all about bringing her along.

  80. I completely agree with RP and what the FI is and what it has done.

    I am completely at a loss with some of the philosophy though:

    I know two Spec Ops guys. One is a really good friend who was Navy. The other was Tier 1 Army. Both of these guys are obviously Alpha of Alpha.

    However, the one I shoot and hunt have dinners with is Beta all the way. Army guy is Beta as well. Could they kick my ass? Yes by looking at me sideways, but around their wives they are schlubs. Delta boy is still hard as a rock in his early 50s, Navy boy only when training for races in his late 40s. Navy guys wife is 9/10, Delta boy 7/10 and both of these men are short, like 5/5-8 short. Navy boy looks like he’s 6 foot for some reason. Before I met him face to face I thought he was taller, maybe just the way he holds himself because I had been within 10 ft of him. We are good friends now and he is by far a smurf.

    They get to do a lot of shtuff, but when wifey wants them to do something they jump. They are still married to first wives, kids as screwed up as anybodies kids, work 9-5 jobs and wives work too.

    I’ve gone through the stages, just can’t figure out some of the stuff. Are there qualities in women that are total hypergamy and in the same woman outlier qualities?

  81. “What benefits a female sexual strategy is forgivable and prudent in a fem-centric social order no matter what the personal consequences are. Women’s default victimhood status is their strongest insurance against those consequences while what benefits men’s sexual strategy is characterized as selfish, juvenile or criminal.”

    Tomassi, it simply astounds me that you cannot recognize that men and women’s so called sexual strategies are precisely the same, just as you cannot see that women’s alleged victimhood status is no different at all from your very own.

    It’s a bit amusing to watch sometimes, but totally bass akwards. You really need to try and perceive things outside the context of predators and prey and please stop fantasizing that men are the prey in some sort of relentless female strategy designed to harvest you of your organs before quietly ejecting you from the planet.

    “..men’s sexual strategy is characterized as selfish, juvenile or criminal…”

    Not at all, I characterize it as a rather sad and desperate attempt to to try deny your own irrelevance. It isn’t true you know, that fear of irrelevance, but it is at the heart of everything you write.

  82. Much to unpack here. A few brief thoughts:

    Same sex marriage, as such, will not impede or promote hypergamy. It will validate the stand up comic’s joke: “I’m all for gay marriage. Why can’t they be as miserable as the rest of us?” We straights have fucked marriage to a fare-thee-well, now it’s their turn. And they will. The divorces, and fights over who gets custody of the Pomeranians, have already begun. There are courses to teach lawyers all the permutations, following on other so-called “family law” courses.

    You may not believe this but there is a re-emerging schism between (male) gay rights advocates and feminists. Google actress/activist Rose MacGowan, but it isn’t just her. A new homophobia is brewing, couched in terms of gay men being as much oppressors of women as straight frat boys – even worse because the gheys aren’t beholden to women! This was part of first wave feminism too: gay men shouldn’t be allied with feminists because their oquest for civil rights doesn’t help women, it just makes gay men better chauvinists. I know it sounds like I am making this up; I’m not. Point being: feminists won’t use what gays do or don’t do to shame straights. They’ll just keep shaming straights with no filtering.

    Marriage rates among same-sexers will peak and then slowly decline as it becomes No Big Deal anymore. OTOH marriage as we know it will continue to crater. It won’t be so much red pill thought catching on, as today’s young men really not giving a shit about it, much as they don’t give a shit about much of anything beyond eking out a living of sorts somehow, and owning some fun gadgets. Because they won’t get the lives their parents had, they know that, so they won’t kill themselves trying to get there.

    Women may still want the BB after the AF, and the dream wedding, but it is the dream they want, not the wedding. Maybe a kid or two, but they can get that started by sleeping with the bartender or guitarist. The BB marriage after the carousel will still exist as a middle-class indulgence. Poor folk won’t be able to afford it. So long as men remain blue pill the marriages’ durations will get briefer and briefer (see above).

    The man-up-and-be-a-good-cuckold mantra will still have some power for a while, too many good-heated betas hoping to marry SOMEBODY will fall for it (per the comic above). But I think it’s beginning to wear out its welcome. A lot of this generation either grew up in such households or are seeing them fall apart, and there’s a gnawing feeling that this may not be such a good idea taking hold.

    Dating is not dying but it is becoming moribund. While some couples will still go to proms and dinners and dances, the new thing is to just hang out as a group of friends/acquaintances. This is how they go to prom. I have seen this and it will be a thing for a long time I suspect.

    Thanks to yes means yes and the drop off in men going to college, the mating and dating scenes in general will become more stark than ever. It could get very unpleasant. Only alphas will dare to try, and succeed. Betas aren’t fighting over yes means yes. Or much of anything else. They’re just adjusting to what they are being told is the law, and accept it. So they will approach women very very carefully if they do so at all, and if they’re among the very few who are educated about the pitfalls of YMY they won’t date on campus. (It’s privacy and due process advocates like us who scream about the evils of YMY – but no one is listening because we’re OLD!)

  83. Insanity: ” . . . it simply astounds me that you cannot recognize that men and women’s so called sexual strategies are precisely the same . . .”

    Therefore Loretta has a right to have a baby, on principle.

  84. “guys who want monogamy in marriage are soon going to be shamed as being controlling, domineering, insecure assholes who have a lot to learn from their more enlightened and laid back gay comrades.”

    Once you take that last illusion away, what is left for a man to get married? I don’t doubt it is coming, where ever gay marriage becomes accept the straight marriage rate drops

  85. I’ve gone through the stages, just can’t figure out some of the stuff. Are there qualities in women that are total hypergamy and in the same woman outlier qualities?

    First, short is bad. So that is a definite negative on the SMV of the guys you are talking about. Just take off 2 points if they are less than five eight.

    Second, you still are not understanding that when we speak of alpha we are speaking about sexual alpha. There are men who are great, fantastic, kick ass at what they do — spec ops, CEO, partner at law firm, published novelist, etc. They can still at the same time not be great with women and therefore not be sexual alphas. The guys you are talking about probably (I am guessing) had enough alpha to attract the hot women to marry, but then settled into married mode, let the wives get the upper hand, and the attraction was killed. That isn’t alpha. Alpha requires hand at all times, 100% of the time, and you will be tested incessantly until you die — that’s life for a man. Never relax, never get comfortable, always maintain hand. Otherwise she has hand, and she will lose attraction precisely because she has hand. It doesn’t matter if you are built like a house a kick your ass out of your career — if she has hand in the relationship, you are not a sexual alpha, and you’re done. Rape is inbound in that scenario, and it won’t be pretty.

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