Hats Off to the Bull

open_hypergamy_cartoon

CH maxim: The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

The following is a story from the Red Pill subredd:

My all too true story goes like this: years ago in my divorce my wife basically stopped having sex with me. The lack of sex was in line with her seemingly having a problem with anything I did (be it how I dressed, how I told jokes, and more). …Note: sex was once every two months or so if that.

I tried to talk to her about how it seemed we just weren’t getting along that well. She said we were getting along just fine. The only problem was me. Per my wife I had UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS about married life after 15 years of being together and with kids running around. Her work demands also helped make sex a low priority for her. She was too tired in the evening. The kids were up in the morning. The weekends were needed to catch up on house stuff and spend time with the kids. Vacations were also “kid” time. The twist she put on it was DIDN’T I LOVE THE KIDS?

Another problem I had (per my wife) was that was I was TOO SENSITIVE. My “whining” about the lack of sex and closeness was proof of this.

[Game note: If I were to consider another Iron Rule of Tomassi it would be this: Never complain, whine, negotiate, or otherwise attempt to appeal to a woman’s reason by explaining your need for sex, intimacy or “closeness”. Nothing demonstrates lower value and reconfirms a woman’s Beta perception of you than openly complaining, or explaining, about your sexless status.

This is not exclusively for married men. Rank Beta men will often make these “dryspell appeals” to female friends who then talk to their other friends and pass on your DLV impression to them.]

Unfortunately, I bought her story line and internalized it. I self-censored, essentially stopping my complaining about no sex and just accepted it. I was less accepting of her poor day-to-day treatment of me but even on that point I tried not to complain too much (not wanting to come across as “whiny”).

And I was pro-active about trying to make our marriage better. I tried my best to be positive about things. I even kept a diary to keep myself honest. I did more chores around the house. I more and more let her have things her way. And I was already in quite good physical shape. I made myself even more so.

And the end result of all this? Turns out my wife had been having secret affairs for years. She was having sex 4 or 5 times a week with her lovers (lunch time, quickies after work in a park, the beach locker, the driveway at night, etc.) Her story line on “my problems” had mostly just been bullshit to keep me at bay so she could continue her secret affairs. As she told me at the tail end of our divorce in a moment of candor, the “forbidden fruit” of extramarital sex was “very exciting”. Her longest term lover (3 years) had just been a play thing and only ended when he asked her to marry him (not realizing he was also being “cheated” on with another lover my wife had).

Next up is TRM reader Razorwire who came strong with this comment from the Adaptations II thread:

[…] I’d say by now the societal and personal risks are negligible for pretty much any decision made by women. So these days, the delay of the beta-bucks model is extended to encompass a starter marriage or having children. The cuckold window is wide open.

I’ve seen this in fellow genXers who actually married young (by todays standards) but of course those men turned out to be jerks or were too irresponsible or selfish (all of the things that got her wet) so they divorced and she quickly locked down the beta-bux who was likely her “friend” back in college or some “nice” co-worker she met in her three-year career with the insurance company.

I went to one such wedding a couple of summers ago. Now that they have a kid and she’s realized the full potential of the AF/BB transition, she can’t (or doesn’t bother to) hide her disdain for his niceness and general lack of alpha behavior. He’s a dead man walking.

On that note, I caught a trailer of an upcoming Will Ferrell film: “Daddy’s Home.” Frames it up nicely.

While I’m sure they will have some hollywood make-believe ending in which the biological dad realizes his loss, has to confront manhood (as defined by the FI), and is jealous/admiring of the stepdad for his honorable provisioning of the kids, the interesting part of the trailer was how it focused on the two “dads” competing for the love and attention of the kids. I’m sure it is funny, but also telling.

Not only is the Sandberg stepdad supposed to be a just-in-time dad to fulfill the equalist needs of the post-wall (and in this case – post reproduction) wife, but he is also expected to pedestalize and perform for the offspring of the cad in order to earn (and keep) his place as the settle-down guy in the eyes of the wife. He must keep winning his way through the consolation bracket for a wife who has not just achieved the AF/BB transition, but has done so after capturing the genetics of the Alpha. He doesn’t even “get” the beta bucks prize of breeding.

The dwindling societal pressure to honor marital commitments and minimal shame of divorce has allowed the delay of beta bucks to blow past birth control in terms of prevention into what is now birth control in terms of actualizing female preference for the AF offspring – with rapidly decreasing risk/impact on her ability to secure the Beta Bux stepdad or post-baby-daddy husband (because now marriage means something to her.)

With, of course, big daddy gov’t as a stand in. But I’d reckon that the attractive single moms are not struggling at all to parlay into BB.

Because they aren’t his kids the stepdad’s burden of performance includes purchasing/exchanging resources for the children’s love which is one more condition he must continually meet in order to maintain her conditional love. Talk about a fleeting proposition.

Peruse any online dating site and you will see the teaser advertising for this coming from all single moms. It’s really just “must love dogs” on crack but often with more bait n switch mechanisms.

Meanwhile the perpetual competition (between you and him) merely deepens the resource pool for her to leverage into her lifestyle and security.

One man is operating under the threatpoint of divorce, the other under the legal extortive aspects of the post-divorce financial fatherhood model. Both must pay to play. Both are subject to her approval, her terms – backed by the social and legal structure. As such, neither are actually fathers, but just offshoots of motherhood channeled through provisioning and conditional exchanges.

I’d say even with the extensive provisioning (the kids in this flick have it all), the kids are still getting the shit end of it. Two marginalized dads is still less than one Father, one marriage. They are just being indoctrinated into the consumerist, fem-centric, self-indulgent model of modern marriage.

A mom who goes full AF/BB with kids in tow may get sold as the heroines journey, but it still strikes me as deeply selfish.

We had an interesting discussion in this thread about modern cuckoldry and the rise of it becoming ‘fetishized’ for men as some new form of ‘alternative’ lifestyle. I’ll get into the grisly biological nuts and bolts of this later, but before I do the practical reasonings for a societally acceptable cuckoldry need to be highlighted.

I chose Razorwire’s comment and the story above to illustrate a fundamental Red Pill truth – Hypergamy is nothing if not pragmatic.

In a larger respect, a woman optimizing Hypergamy follows a predictable schedule, but as Razorwire points out, on a psychological level it also builds fail-safe contingencies into that schedule. Root level, largely subconscious, survival/parental investment insecurities and long term insurances against them drives this pragmatism. Thus we see operative social conventions carefully prepared to excuse and absolve women’s duplicitous behaviors in both a social and personal scope.

What benefits a female sexual strategy is forgivable and prudent in a fem-centric social order no matter what the personal consequences are. Women’s default victimhood status is their strongest insurance against those consequences while what benefits men’s sexual strategy is characterized as selfish, juvenile or criminal. These characterizations, and the social conventions that are an extension of them, are part of the pragmatism of Hypergamy.

When you look at the time line I presented in the Preventative Medicine book and series, and you get to the stages just before and just after a woman’s Epiphany Phase – the phase at which a woman’s subconscious understanding that her SMV decline has begun in earnest – you begin to see a bigger picture; a meta overview of the necessity of keeping Blue Pill men ignorant of their long term role in that strategy.

While women increasingly embrace Open Hypergamy and become increasingly more confident of their capacity to satisfy both sides of it (AF/BB) due to a presumed expectation for men to also openly support it, there comes less expectation to try to optimize Hypergamy with only one man.

The Future of Hypergamy is Cuckoldry

The following quote came from a fantastic essay one of Heartiste’s readers, Chris, submitted regarding the recent gay marriage ruling:

I don’t know many men who would sign up to an institution where the partners are expected/morally obliged to be emotionally faithful but not sexually faithful. It is much easier for women to get casual sex than men, so any man signing himself up to that deal would be signing himself up for cuckoldry and cuckoldry is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a man pursuing a long-term mating strategy, (and it is the evolved moral norms surrounding the long-term mating strategy which marriage as a cultural institution is/was developed around/for.)

Of course, if people became more knowledgeable about evo-bio/evo-psych and instead started calling marriage essentially what it is, the social-codification of the long-term mating strategy in humans, then this concern wouldn’t really matter. (No worrying about importing norms anti-thetical to the reproductive interests of one party in the relationship and subsequently which disincentivizes the pursuit of the strategy from that party as its definition is strictly evo-bio/evo-psych.)

In The Myth of the Good Guy I put forth the idea that while women would ideally like to have both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy satisfied by the same man, women today don’t even have the expectation that this is in anyway possible, much less is it preferable to them anymore. The expectation becomes one of the Sandberg plan; expect to bang the bad boys, the Alphas and the thrill providers while your SMV is high, and expect a good, persistent and reliable ‘Dad’ to be ready to forgive and forget all that before you’re 30.

What Chris digs into in that essay isn’t so much about gays being married, but rather the fundamental restructuring of the nature of marriage. Religious issues only serve as a convenient distraction, the nuts and bolts of it is that this edict fundamentally restructures the legal aspects of male/female marriage. When this restructuring questions and impedes the access to long-term resource provisioning for divorced women (initiators of 70+% of divorces), that’s when you’ll see a truly misandric inequality in hetero vs. homosexual marriage arrangements. Men will still need to be forced into indenturement and forced to cooperate with a binding commitment to Hypergamy in the face of alternative marriages not based on monogamy.

Indeed, what man would sign up for that arrangement? Particularly in an era when women (not the Red Pill) blatantly lay bare the duplicity of their sexual strategies.

Limiting Dick

Around the time I was writing the second book I’d gotten into a Twitter debate with several feminists on a hashtag called #askmenanything or something to that effect. The pretense was of course to “ask men” all the insipid meme questions and answer them for men with feminist boilerplate. Once the Red Pill forums and manosphere proper got involved the tag quickly switched footing and feminists lost interest.

It was during one of these exchanges that I’d quoted Heartiste’s maxim from the start of this post to a particular feminist; Feminism’s end goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality.

Her response was an incredulous, “So you think all feminism is about is limiting dick?!”

It was of course the type of simple dismissive I’ve come to expect from the fem-powerment generation, but it sums up the dynamic pretty well. It’s always been my take that feminism in all of its waves has always been another social arm of the Feminine Imperative; which has always been an imperative driven by the best interests of optimizing women’s Hypergamous choices.

So yes, feminism is in fact about ‘limiting dick’ by socially, legislatively, personally and psychologically facilitating the selecting out and opting in on what best serves a woman’s short term and long term sexual strategy needs – throughout her entire life, not just around her Epiphany Phase. She needs the Alpha bull for his raw sexuality, dominance and confidence, and she needs the Beta comfort, investment and reliability that her bull is unwilling or unable to give her.

In this new age of proactive and reactive cuckoldry, men are expected to put up and shut up with playing the role of one or the other. In our thread conversation about cuckold fetishes the idea was put out that there’s some sick or deviant mindset in which a man gets off on watching his wife get pounded by another man. Keep in mind the possibility that the rise in popularity of cuckold porn may be an extension of this new paradigm.

The cuckold fetish narrative follows the same Hypergamous script as any other “alternative lifestyle”. As I mentioned in the Adaptation series, even within the ostensibly Free Love paradigm the same Hypergamous imperative was played out. In cuckold porn there is always an Alpha bull, a ‘superior’ sexual competitor that fucks that man’s wife; an inferior Beta sexual partner is never the tingle generating center of that fantasy. Thus that husband plays his expected passive, supportive role within that “fantasy” and thus is that wife’s dualistic Alpha Fucks sexual strategy completed.

That’s the messy nuts and bolts of it, but it’s all too easy to get caught up in the sensation of our blood boiling in righteous indignation than to see the larger perspective. This too is a part of the pragmatism of Hypergamy.

Cuckoldry is not simply about who got to breed with a woman before or after she settled into a committed monogamy; it’s about the consistent impulse to optimize Hypergamy. It is cuckoldry for a man to assume the parental investment responsibilities of another man that a woman previously bred with. It can be proactive or it can be reactive, but the purpose it serves is the same.

Few people really grasp how outrageous it is for a man to take part in his own cuckoldry. We call those men heroes for playing savior to a woman who made “bad choices” and invests himself in a child he didn’t father, but even this association has become yet another expectation of the dutiful Beta’s role. A conditioned White Knight disposition makes him feel good about it, but it’s a woman’s strategy that comes to completion, not his own. A bull was in his bed long before him.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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M Simon
Guest

I wonder if there won’t be in time a children’s rebellion. Children don’t like stepfathers.

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[…] Hats Off to the Bull […]

M Simon
Guest

Re: cuk porn. What I really dislike about it is that it doesn’t just humiliate the Beta. It denigrates him. He don’t just have to watch her. She and the Bull spend significant time saying terrible things about him.

I couldn’t see the turn on in that.

When spinning plates I was never interested in women who had boyfriends.

StringsofCoins
Guest
StringsofCoins

I work with this guy that I despise. He constantly wants me to come play hockey with him. He’s a decade younger then me and I actually know his wife. She’s the fat ugly supervisor of one of my old plates. Pizza girl plate. A hot 20 year old omega female. Probably destined for a life of heroin addiction or turning into a fat monster. I used her like the plate she was and guys wife was always giving me the I want to fuck eyes. I would never touch her of course because she’s fat. She’s not even a… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
M Simon
Guest

StringsofCoins
July 5th, 2015 at 9:41 pm

What exactly is the meaning of this:

The bastard his wife cuckolded him with was with the alpha male.

thedeclineandfall
Guest

@M.Simon Children’ Rebellion? I doubt it will ever happen. The fertility of all first world countries is below replacement. Children are going to increasingly become a less common part of families. Cell phones and portable devices do most of the parenting anyways. Young people are simply less connected with their communities and families in general. They have too many toys and diversion to care; not to mention many children are overweight. What Rollo is describing is going to exponentially get worse as the population declines. Tragically greying old spinsters and post-wall harpies will exponentially increase in numbers this century. The… Read more »

StringsofCoins
Guest
StringsofCoins

@Simon

His wife’s kid, that he usually takes care of, was with the actual father.

M Simon
Guest

thedeclineandfall
July 5th, 2015 at 10:16 pm

@M.Simon Children’ Rebellion? I doubt it will ever happen.

What about this:

StringsofCoins
July 5th, 2015 at 9:41 pm

He told me in private how much he wishes that this guy had 100% full custody of this kid because he can not love him.

================

Unloved boys are an especial problem. They go feral. And unloved girls? Well we see the result of that already. Girls Gone Wild. Indifferent to their own children.

M Simon
Guest

I probably should add that the LTR was an inconvenient child. And she was fairly determined that it was not going to happen to her children. She came close though. I was so disgusted with her that I was on the verge of leaving. #1 son talked me out of it. He was very wise and said,”You know what kind of step father she will pick. A child molester.” No matter how bad she was I couldn’t do that to my kids. But I did need a reminder at one point.

redlight
Guest
redlight

[Game note: If I were to consider another Iron Rule of Tomassi it would be this: Never complain, whine, negotiate, or otherwise attempt to appeal to a woman’s reason by explaining your need for sex, intimacy or “closeness”. Nothing demonstrates lower value and reconfirms a woman’s Beta perception of you than openly complaining, or explaining, about your sexless status. This is not exclusively for married men. Rank Beta men will often make these “dryspell appeals” to female friends who then talk to their other friends and pass on your DLV impression to them.] This should be a Iron Rule. If… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
Guest

I agree with you that children are increasingly going to be more problematic due to unstable families ‘Girls gone wild’ is only going to get 100x worse when there are fewer females under 30; the inflated sense of entitlement will be off the charts. I just don’t think there will be a rebellion by young people. They will already be treated like spoiled prima donnas by a society of mostly aging old people and be placed on pedestals. The rebellion will be by aging feminist harpies complaining there are dwindling resources to provision them and creasing numbers of exciting men;… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

I think The Plan of Overt Hypergamy (I actually like “Overt” more than “Open”, feel like it covers the modes of communication better) is the most offensive thing I’m dealing with now. I spent so long being told my role in it, and now when it’s suggested to me that “maybe” I should just accept whatever post-Wall woman who’s “gotten tired of assholes” comes my way, I have a lot of trouble holding frame and not going absolutely explosively ballistic. Don’t get me wrong, I’d plate a 30+ year old chick still hanging on to some of her former glory,… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@M Simon “Unloved boys are an especial problem. They go feral.” Closets video of my family dynamic. Being a boy that felt unloved I learned to love myself without understanding a deep red pill truth you must respect your manhood. As a teenager I’d didn’t realized that my own farther was more emotionally insecure that my sisters. In large part that drew them to every alpha they could spread their legs for. But I wasn’t any better I didn’t increase my N count I mostly jacked off in porn and avoided people in social situations that didn’t want to talk… Read more »

WaterUnderTheFridge
Guest
WaterUnderTheFridge

Women are attracted to power. If you lack the power to get what you want, and cannot obtain said power, shut the fuck up. Do not highlight your impotence.

Tom
Guest
Tom

>Indeed, what man would sign up for that arrangement? Indeed. The men really are going on strike. Pseuds and hypsters love to hate on The Daily Mail , , , but they often tell blunt truths to power http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3046350/Why-men-refuse-marry-Women-complain-chaps-today-won-t-settle-Sorry-ladies-s-fault-argues-wickedly-provocative-new-book-Denigration-Men-PETER-LLOYD.html A relevant statistic: “According to the Office for National Statistics, marriage in Britain is at its lowest level since 1895. In 2011, there were just 286,634 ceremonies — a 41 per cent free fall from 1972, when 480,285 couples tied the knot.” and this in spite of a larger population in 2011. and the article has an embedded video of an… Read more »

hamster_wrestler
Guest
hamster_wrestler

This is a pretty funny spoof on Wall Street, subprime financing and marriage:

“Did you see your neighbor with his mistress last night? Buy some MBS credit default swaps on him and tell his wife what you saw. Is your other neighbor away from home a lot? Buy some MBS insurance on his wife, seduce her, and when they get divorced, you can cash in. Consider it “inside her” trading. ”

http://www.dark-bid.com/wall-streets-next-bonanza-subprime-marriage-securities.html

BC
Guest
BC

I spent so long being told my role in it, and now when it’s suggested to me that “maybe” I should just accept whatever post-Wall woman who’s “gotten tired of assholes” comes my way, I have a lot of trouble holding frame and not going absolutely explosively ballistic.

Better than ballistic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYTfzfsbiUI

And because it bears repeating at least once every post…

Insanity GG yttik Gabriel Jane, you ignorant slut.

Signor Farfalla
Guest
Signor Farfalla

I won’t be surprised to see a lot of cultural/hollywood/media glorification of “The Cool Step-Dad”. It’s already easy enough to find but I think a huge push is imminent.

M Simon
Guest

Signor Farfalla
July 5th, 2015 at 11:55 pm

Step dads are more prone to abuse the children.

It is going to be difficult selling that to kids.

zerlegen
Guest
zerlegen

It’d be interesting to see stats on divorce asset division – (i.e. which spouse got how much Cash and Prizes from the other one). I haven’t actually searched around for this but somehow I’m skeptical they’d be readily available.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Guest

I liked this comment http://www.randalolson.com/2015/06/15/144-years-of-marriage-and-divorce-in-1-chart/#comment-2091143101

Which starts out “Divorce rape is a real thing. You can lose access to your kids and all of your resources. If you can’t pay alimony or child support because you lose your job you can go to jail.”

redlight
Guest
redlight

“… about cuckold fetishes the idea was put out that there’s some sick or deviant mindset in which a man gets off on watching his wife get pounded by another man. Keep in mind the possibility that the rise in popularity of cuckold porn may be an extension of this new paradigm.” It’s more than an idea put out, it’s a fetish that has been around forever. Some believe it relates to “sperm competition” and the higher arousal relates to tribal times when the female could mate with multiples. Certainly there is a rise in cuckold porn, but there is… Read more »

Bill
Guest
Bill

I am just waiting for the pedophiles to start getting into the cuckold scene for an endless supply of children. Wifey will be off with her bulls while Chester is alone taking care of the kids. That way everyone will be able to get their satisfaction…

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc

In regards to this latest post, I am a bit too conventional and a bit nonplussed and inarticulate. I got nothing.

Anubis
Guest
Anubis

Rollo, another great post. There’s a good reason I have set aside copies of your books for my son when he leaves his mother (he is 11 right now) In my first marriage, my story was quite similar to the first commenter quoted. Soon after marriage my wife wasn’t interested in sex (with me), but was secretly screwing around whenever she found a source of tingles. She loved my provisioning as I my career took off and made me a star in my industry. Finally after 15 years she dropped the bomb and demanded an open marriage, under alternating threat… Read more »

StringsofCoins
Guest
StringsofCoins

@anubis, Of course not. Nobody will ever enforce anything against women. Nobody will ever hold these overgrown children responsible for anything they do ever. So react accordingly. My deadbeat mother never paid any child support and never has. And how many thousands of dollars do I have to pay to watch a judge wag his finger at my insane ex so I can occasionally visit with “my” children. Thankfully they are asleep in my new house right now. And I’m back to plates. I took awhile when I found God. But the Christians aren’t Christians. And so I’m still without… Read more »

Signor Farfalla
Guest
Signor Farfalla

@ M Simon,

Who’s selling it to the kids? You’re talking about reality; I was talking about the media narrative about to be thrown at us. Single moms are usually total losers but that’s not the narrative, right? The “Cool Step-Dad” who bonds immediately and lovingly with the feral 11 year old is a narrative that will be sold to us. It doesn’t have to be something that often happens. If it fits the FI then it will be heavily pushed by media/entertainment.

Signor Farfalla
Guest
Signor Farfalla

String of Coins

“The laws are just too insane.”

Yeah. It’s bare-faced Darwinian stuff going on right now. In 2015, if a guy would walk in to that world then that is just a less intelligent beast taking his rightfully low rung on the food chain.

M Simon
Guest

Signor Farfalla
July 6th, 2015 at 4:08 am

You can sell it to adults. They are often too smart by half.

You can’t sell it to kids. They feel what they feel.

M Simon
Guest

Signor Farfalla
July 6th, 2015 at 4:08 am

The sales have to be air tight. But the whole thing is getting leaky.

walawala
Guest
walawala

This is about mindset…you think your girl is so sweet she will likely adopt that persona for you. I’ve been banging girls who at first glance you would never think were sexual. They portray themselves to their beta orbiters as ‘nice’…slightly stupid, perhaps innocent, maybe boyish…but with even a moderate amount of game I’ve been able to unlock in them a part of themselves they often never knew they had. Second anecdote…a girl I’m gaming has told me she’s very sexual but unless I’m her bf we can’t fuck…I’ve reframed it the other way…given her a flash of what to… Read more »

bnon
Guest
bnon

Situation: I’m 30 and having my way with a 22 year old nurse to be. Her SMV is visibly below mine, so she’s melting in my hands and I’m not going to go exclusive with anyone right now. In any case, she’s very good with kids, and an overall great person. She want’s clearly kids, eventually and had “only” a few partners before me. Her mom has children of more than one guy, seems somewhat bitter, and essentially suggesting the cc to her, because she feels she could have had more of it. Her dad is an ass and she… Read more »

BC
Guest
BC

@bnon: She’s young and I’d like to express my views on several Tomassian topics with her. No. Don’t tell, show. I’d like to suggest to her that once we break up, she might want to keep her N count low, for her own sake. Does she know how you feel about non low-N girls? Then she already knows without you having to say anything explicitly. I want her to judge and learn from her families behaviors, but then I’d really have to work around just insulting the adults in her life. Show/express disapproval/disappointment (facial expressions, long pauses…) without insulting. There… Read more »

bnon
Guest
bnon

@BC: “Don’t tell, show.” sounds like good advice.

Regarding N count: Well I’ve called the Sex and the City girls sluts, but that alone is a weaker message than if I’d expand on the logic behind *why* I think not having 10 sexual partners before kids life is good.

AurelianWay
Guest
AurelianWay

Talk about the bitter taste of the red pill after reading this current post. (the comic at the top says it all). Cuckoldry is the absolute worst thing to let a woman do to you. You have essentially given her permission to mentally castrate you. What a fucking shit show intersexual relations have become thanks to the FI.

The red pill has become a daily supplement i like to take to keep me focused on reality in case i revert back to romantic beta ideologies.

Dirty Sanchez
Guest
Dirty Sanchez

Just venting, dunno if this is even on topic here. If I don’t lose my composture, I’m going to court tomorrow to file for divorce. This has been overdue for years and I hope I won’t chicken out. I received this woman many years ago in my house because she was in a bit of a problem. Thing is, she started acting as if she owned the place more or less from the beginning, and also started almost immediately to act as my wife (plus telling that to everybody) and doing everything possible to get me in bed – after… Read more »

Signor Farfalla
Guest
Signor Farfalla

M Simon, Well I agree with your statement but I think we’re on different planes still. I’m not talking about what will really happen in real life. I’m talking about the narrative that is about to be dumped upon us; “The Cool Step-Dad” I’m talking about the fantasy narrative which will be reality in about 20 years.I can almost see one day where a biological dad will be held in much lower esteem than a ‘hero’ step-dad. The step-dad accommodated the FI, afterall. A real dad will be seen as somehow selfish, especially if his wife remains thin (don’t forget… Read more »

Driver
Guest
Driver

The other part of the problem is that society gives women a pass or calls women a hero for being that single mom with kids. A woman can’t lose in society. She can have kids out of wedlock, go to the government for support, cheat on a boyfriend or husband and it’s all explained away as being “strong” or “empowered”. A man pulls any one of these stunts and he is labeled a deadbeat, a cheater, weak, etc…even if he’s trying to do right by his kids (and his ex is completely in the wrong). Side Note: forget going to… Read more »

Signor Farfalla
Guest
Signor Farfalla

The presumption with single mothers is that the man abandoned her and the children. That’s the default, assumed narrative even though it happens that way 5 % of the time (I mean the man leaving a committed pair bond scenario once the kid arrives.) Two people fucking while wasted on meth or Olde English doesn’t count.

There is not a trace of cultural shaming being aimed towards single moms. They are the very most culpable demographic when it comes to what is killing this country and they are being held up as heroes ‘enduring their abandonment,’

Ang Aamer
Guest

Great Post Rollo I contend Feminism is ALL about limiting Mr. Dickson. We say things like: The medium is the message. Alpha-Fuccks Beta-Bucks Consolidation of provisioning at Epiphany Phase But we don’t consciously realize what our grandfathers knew only too well. Women are not Rational Actors in society. I mean really women don’t even believe their own Bullshiit most of the time. Why should we? Feminism is predicated on convincing enough men that this is a good idea so society can go along with it. And to show how illogical women’s philosophy is, the MORE a man believes the equality… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Bnon – With sex, demonstrate, don’t explicate. Also, don’t ever ask her “do you like this?” You can observe her experiencing pleasure, there is no need to ask. Women hate men who act like this in bed. Now, you can be dominant, and “train them” but it’s never done out of a request, it has to be done from a dominant frame. Tell her to worship your cock, tell her to suck your dick like you coming is the most important thing on earth to her. Demand it, enforce it – but never “ask” or discuss. You’d be amazed at… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@StringofCoins – “And perhaps being forced to lobotomize my fatherhood from my soul, simply so I could remain sane, and doing so alone, like a man, drove me into a psychotic break.” I’ve already completed that surgery and do you know what? It’s freeing – my daughter can do whatever the fuck she wants, I don’t really care anymore. She’s getting married next month, I’m not invited and I actually don’t really care. In fact, I’m happy I’m not paying the bills. I used to be like “I can’t understand how this could happen to me” – such thoughts don’t… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Guest
Tam the Bam

@the d&f :- “I just don’t think there will be a rebellion by young people. They will already be treated like spoiled prima donnas by a society of mostly aging old people and be placed on pedestals.” Well, young women, certainly. It’s more likely, due to the near-inversion of the (native-born, hem-hem ..) demographic pyramid when that time comes, the boomers and the equally disgusting generations following will cause a shortage of incontinence pants when they realise their gold-plated retirement and care requirements are revealed for what they always were, a titanic Ponzi. And the call will come to shackle… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

“It could be that ugly chicks want to be loved.and maybe old fat guys too.”

Why do you think God invented tequila shots?

http://www.samizdata.net/2015/07/taking-the-piss-out-of-feminists-is-becoming-a-fun-things-to-do/#comment-686040

lh
Guest
lh

Signor Farfalla
July 6th, 2015 at 7:17 am

The narrative of the “cool step-dad” might appear in the media, but I doubt it will in real life. Women already despise the betas who provide for her and his children, what do you think they feel for a beta doing it for someone else’s children? They might need that providing at some point and show the necessary feelings to secure it, but beyond that they’ll count down the days until they don’t need him anymore.

M Simon
Guest

bnon July 6th, 2015 at 5:45 am My attitude was that “n” doesn’t matter when it comes to a LTR. What matters is that she has oneitis for you. That may be more difficult for high “n” girls. So what? NEXT. What worked for me is that I kept going through them until one stuck. No matter what. And I kept spinning plates. And her attitude was “I want you more than they do. I’ll out perform and outlast them.” Of course her attitude was terrible when the plate spinning stopped (kids came along). But the kids are grown. I… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Guest
Tam the Bam

Notice by The Management:- “@sanchez, she is a textbook BPD. “

@Dirty Sanchez;- I know the terms NPD/BPD are tossed around like pigskins in the ‘Sphere, but this appears to be the Real Deal.
I’d prepared a long and tedious message explaining exactly this, Every klaxon started screaming “Dive!Dive!!” reading your description.

Like the Landlord says. Run, don’t look back.
I don’t care what “reasons” you have for a minute more of continued association, and make sure you have witnesses to any contact. Danger Will Robinson danger!
Run until you can’t hear shrieks of ” I’m not going to be ignored, Dan”.

bnon
Guest
bnon

@scribblerg: Okay, I’ll not ask what she likes but just try and see how she reacts. I could now say that it would be nice, though, if I would not just have to do the acting alone, her doing just the reacting, but I guess I know you guys perspective on that already 😛 As I said, I don’t intent to go exclusive with her now or anytime soon, you might have overread that. When I have access to sex, I enjoy flirting (“pickup”) more than the fucking. I’m in a neighboring state now and she literally comes over to… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

Signor Farfalla July 6th, 2015 at 7:17 am Yeah. I got that. (After several tries). Thing is the whole FI is starting to leak. The tires are frayed. In time the wheels will be coming off. I admit it looks bad now. But things are not working. And there is a small but significant part of the White Knight party that gets what has to be done. Of course the FI Party is useless. That small contingent – (government out of everything) is growing. For a number of reasons I will not go into here. I’ll just say that they… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

Rollo – “So yes, feminism is in fact about ‘limiting dick’ by socially, legislatively, personally and psychologically facilitating the selecting out and opting in on what best serves a woman’s short term and long term sexual strategy needs – throughout her entire life, not just around her Epiphany Phase.” This of course has the added benefit of devaluing men generally, dick in particular and making it far easier for the lesbians that are the intellectual and philosophical drivers of the movement to gain access to a wider variety, and larger number of young women. One thing find interesting about the… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg
July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am

I enjoy acting like Babe Ruth (calling the shot) and then hitting it out of the park. I tell LTR all the time “I’m going to dominate you and you are going to love it.” She often rebels. Until she can’t take it any more and comes begging. “Dominate me. It makes me feel good.” And making her beg for what she “hates” makes me feel good.

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg
July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am

I should add that calling the shots Game is not one I would play with plates. But she has been in my Frame so long she can’t even get out when she rebels. She likes to do the “equalist” thing and accuses me of “power games”. And I tell her “That power is why you want me. And I’m going to overpower you. Because I have. Every time.” “You have never won. And you are not going to win this time. Either.”

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg July 6th, 2015 at 9:05 am There are some bad dads out there. The LTRs step dad was one of those. I have lived with murderers. Quite a few of them when I was in an OLaw MC gang. And his vibes were worse by many orders of magnitude. Her real father was an Alpha among men (mafia) but a total Beta among women. He abandoned his daughter because the mother was not of the right (Italian) family. He gave in to family pressure. And her mother? Vibes in harmony with the step-dad. Scum of the earth. Sold out… Read more »

bnon
Guest
bnon

@Badpainter:

That raises the question why best buddies now shouldn’t get married just for state cash in the US!?
Depending on where you life, the stigma that comes with it should be bearable in the current social climate.

I find a Wikipedia page on mixed-orientation marriage and same-sex marriage, but no discussion of same-sex-same-orientation marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-orientation_marriage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#cite_ref-1

M Simon
Guest

I must say the commentary this morning is just sparkling and crackling with energy. Lovin’ it. Way to go guys.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Ah, great for you. As for specifics on this, truly I’d want to hear from Vulpine and YaReally and others on how to do groom this plate as my experience is not so strong in optimal game wrt to LTRs(i always had partially great natural game). It seems like you have more of the basics down than I realized, I’m fucking jealous that your shit is wired so tight at 30. But I can give you advice on sex. First off, a woman who doesn’t give good blowjobs is often a redflag for me. It’s how I tell if a… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

The single biggest predictor of how a woman will treat men is the behavior of her mother. This is an absolute truth. You HAVE to look at the mother. It is predictive greater than 90% of the time, and the other 10% are outliers that you can’t base your behavioral judgment on. The mothers behavior is the best predictor of the daughter almost all the time. Get a handle on how her mother relates to men, and you understand what is actually inside that cutie you are attracted to, pretty much *all* the time. — On the broader issue of… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg
July 6th, 2015 at 11:12 am

Spot on advice. The LTR has been behaving badly of late. But she was also getting hungry for contact. She brought her bowl (she likes to clean me up before a BJ) and went to work unasked. And broke up with me again a day and a half later. The shit tests never end.

But I’m thinking of taking your advice. “You want to repair relations? Get your bowl.” Or maybe just handing it to her.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter

@bnon As goofy ideas go I think this one has potential for being the most subversive to the FI’s political/social control wing. Good news is Hollywood already presented the friendly positive face of it: My Two Dads, Three Men and a Baby. Now I’d argue those pieces of entertainment were beards or proxies for arguing in favor of gay marriage/gay adoption, but they also argue in favor or new non-sexual form of marriage and family formation. A form of family that although lacking a sexual component is not altogether different from traditional marriage in its intent, and in some ways… Read more »

bnon
Guest
bnon

Haha, @scribblerg, I see you wanted to write explicitly about sex. A little in my face, but thanks. Yeah, she didn’t want to go down the first few times. I read about and considered the redpill way and wrote her in an email (even before she gave me oral) “You’re going to blow me next time and you must swallow.” She did when we saw each other, even if it took me a long time to cum. I’m not an expert on what fraction of hooking a girl really comes from the act of fucking, and I have no experience… Read more »

ProphetDavidTaylor (@ProphetDT)
Guest

Rollo do you do anything with mentoring young men? Any program you’re involved with to teach young boys RP truths as they are starting out in life?

M Simon
Guest

Rollo Tomassi
July 6th, 2015 at 11:43 am

“I’m looking for a man to dominate me” LOL

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

“I’m looking for a man to dominate me” LOL Of course. Now, when that first surfaced a month or so ago (I think that’s when it was), my initial thought is that it was a fake account being used by someone who wanted to get his rocks off (or potentially hers, but less likely). I’m still not convinced it isn’t that. Her answer at the tail end is too stereotypically phrased in some ways to be that believable. Still, the medical professional who eventually perfects penis augmentation surgery in such a way as to permit full functionality with enhanced size… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

Novaseeker
July 6th, 2015 at 12:12 pm

It is interesting that hypergamy is getting so open that it is letting its secrets out.

The first GF taught me “I’m looking for a man to dominate me” but not quite so explicitly. More like “Do this. Don’t do that.”

It wasn’t until I started hanging around here that I got a solid intellectual framework. Thank you Rollo.

T.Stark
Guest
T.Stark

The Cartoon is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO True

Even better is when you make the judgement on them that they are wearing a ring (just as a slight ‘push’) and they validate by saying “the ring can come off”

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Sanchez: “You will kill yourself if you do.” What Rollo says here is not hyperbole, it is fact. If you don’t end up trying suck start an S&W, or feature as the guest of honor at a private necktie party, you will slowly and painfully kill yourself with stress. No contact from this moment. Get a lawyer yesterday. Talk to him and only to him. He will talk to her lawyer. That includes any court appearances you might have to make with her. Do not even acknowledge her existence. Talk to your lawyer and the judge only. Come back tomorrow… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

The bottom line, as I have explained many times to the guys at Reddit, is this: an attractive woman is always fucking someone. If she isn’t fucking you, she’s fucking someone else. It doesn’t matter if this woman is someone you are not involved with, someone you are flirting with, someone you are the boyfriend of, or someone you are living with or married to. If she is attractive and she isn’t sexing you, she is sexing someone else. End of. It wasn’t always this way, because in years of yore there were different social mores, but today every woman… Read more »

Striver
Guest
Striver

@Novaseeker:

If what you say is true, mine was one of the 10%. Parents were fine. Maybe a little too doting on her, though it was hard to tell. She does have a witch of a cousin who encouraged her to divorce. I do not think she respected her parents’ opinion of the matter. She respected the cousin because the cousin is a commitmentphobe, and she only seems to respect people who treat her that way.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“It wasn’t always this way, because in years of yore there were different social mores . . .”

This was written in the 30’s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DK_qqDC1VE

By and large social mores to do not determine what people do, only how careful they are in going about what they do.

Vulpine
Guest
Vulpine

Huh? Comment on what? bnon’s 22yo nurse? Uh… I hope he has another plate or 6 so as to curb any oneitis symptoms that will wreck the situation. Aside from that “22 year-old in a culture that promotes whoredom” dynamic, the bedroom communication thing is easy to address. My bedroom is a sanctuary of the positive: no negativity allowed. And I have “house rules” to protect that. My bedroom is my nest. It is the core of the safety and security of my home. It’s the “safe room”. When negativity comes up, at any point, I’ll get up, grab whoever,… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

If what you say is true, mine was one of the 10%. Parents were fine. Maybe a little too doting on her, though it was hard to tell. Oh it can happen that way, too, unfortunately, although it is much less common. Unfortunately rules of thumb are just that — approximations that are mostly true, but sometimes false. In my case I married a virgin Roman Catholic who was 23 (yes she was a real virgin, I learned that on the wedding night, for those of you who may say otherwise) and very religious. We were divorced 7 years later.… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

By and large social mores to do not determine what people do, only how careful they are in going about what they do. Sure, but it’s harder. It’s like locking the door. Some people who are determined to get through the door will find a way to do so, despite the fact that it is locked, but many others will pass. Social mores are the same. When you unlock the social mores door, you get more transgression, even through there were always transgressors under the locked social mores regime as well. How unlocked things are matters for behavior en masse… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Some people who are determined to get through the door will find a way to do so . . .”

. . . but smart people bypass it for the second story, back window that got left open.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

“In my case I married a virgin Roman Catholic who was 23 (yes she was a real virgin, I learned that on the wedding night, for those of you who may say otherwise) and very religious. We were divorced 7 years later. What I overlooked was her mother — a divorced woman who really doesn’t get men at all and who is a controller (hence her divorce, although her husband was himself no choir boy). The divorce was one red flag, her controlling ways were another. Looking back on it now, those both should have led me to pass on… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

Novaseeker July 6th, 2015 at 1:39 pm What religion no longer teaches is “find the man of your dreams and surrender to him”. It seems like the men and women of Dad’s generation got that. More or less. It has disappeared from the culture. Mom surrendered to Dad. Told #1 Daughter “Find a dominant man you like and surrender to him. It will make you happy”. After a long equalist tirade and further discussion she said, “Never discuss the subject with me again.” I’m waiting to see if she gets it. If ever. I should talk to Mom about giving… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

Novaseeker
July 6th, 2015 at 1:39 pm

EPL?

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Vulpy – And you wonder why I point in your direction. @Bnon – Strange reaction, you asked a sexually explicit question and got a sexually explicit response. I didn’t “want” to go there, but it’s not uncommon to be graphic about sex here, or sheepish about it. One is tempted to accuse you of “clutching your pearls”… A few more points. “Rough” – As long as you don’t cause more pain than pleasure. Many guys seem to think that just fucking a chick like a madman is all there is to being “rough” but if you talk to women, you… Read more »

The Lone Planet
Guest
The Lone Planet

Save your energy and stop trying to be the man women want, they don’t deserve it.

id dregs
Guest
id dregs

My story of a family member that got cucked for 10 years was featured on Heartiste’s website. Here it is: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/the-ten-year-cuck/ This type of stuff doesn’t really sink in until you witness it or experience it first hand. Case in point, I knew a couple (let’s just say they were very close to me, as one was related to me). They had been married for 15 years. The man did everything to raise their social economical standing from near poverty to mid-middle class. He did just that through hard work and dedication. They both seemed to be in love and… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

EPL?

@M. Simon —

It’s a reference to “Eat, Pray, Love”, by Elizabeth Gilbert. Basically the Gospel of Frivorce according to Elizabeth.

Scanman
Guest
Scanman

“Hypergamy will cause a woman to leave your ass at a moments notice once her id takes over. It doesn’t give a fuck about “the family” or “the children”. All it cares about is fulfilling its feral desire.”

100% truth… And no, dear reader, you are not different than other men. That kind of arrogance cost me a pretty nice house, over $500,000, half my retirement, full-time access to my kids, and a shitload of emotional scar tissue.

Retrenched
Guest
Retrenched

Paul Elam once defined hypergamy as the female tendency to use males as appliances (dildos, atms, human shields) and discard them when they are no longer useful. Maybe the second best definition I’ve heard after GBFM’s “alpha fucks and beta bucks”.

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

Rollo…the more i read here, the more it’s clear for me to never get married. I have one child and all i want is another one. Not necessarily from the same woman.

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg, I put your advice to work this afternoon – perfect. Gave her feedback. She liked that. Giving her a hint of what I wanted (handed her the bowl) didn’t work but telling her “get your bowl” did. Worked all my usual dread games on her plus one I haven’t used for a while – “no kisses unless I can spread your lips with your juices” – very nice kisses I must say. Sloppy. She doesn’t like sloppy. But for me…. As you point out – they will do just about anything for you if they want you bad. When… Read more »

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

Simon, it really sound strange to me how you do all these “overt” kind of domination. This mostly don’t work for me

M Simon
Guest

scribblerg (SG) July 6th, 2015 at 2:14 pm Loved the comment. And your point about paying attention – well you know me on that issue. And for all you aspiring Alphas. You have figured out how to get her in bed with tingles. You must then deliver “the best sex I have ever had.” She will tell her friends. Or just have a smile that lasts for days. Which is the same thing. As SG points out. Study, study, study. Five days planning, two days work. And if you are not so good at first? Don’t take it to heart.… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

ChocDoc
July 6th, 2015 at 4:34 pm

Save the overt stuff for the LTR. Otherwise just demonstrate. The LTR is so used to my Frame, I can talk about it. But that is a bad idea early on. You want to be with her (among others) for about a year before you try overt. And if you try – see how she responds. If you get resistance save it for another day.

It is a Dance. If she can’t do the move try an easier one. It is all about bringing her along.

jeff
Guest
jeff

I completely agree with RP and what the FI is and what it has done. I am completely at a loss with some of the philosophy though: I know two Spec Ops guys. One is a really good friend who was Navy. The other was Tier 1 Army. Both of these guys are obviously Alpha of Alpha. However, the one I shoot and hunt have dinners with is Beta all the way. Army guy is Beta as well. Could they kick my ass? Yes by looking at me sideways, but around their wives they are schlubs. Delta boy is still… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Guest

“What benefits a female sexual strategy is forgivable and prudent in a fem-centric social order no matter what the personal consequences are. Women’s default victimhood status is their strongest insurance against those consequences while what benefits men’s sexual strategy is characterized as selfish, juvenile or criminal.” Tomassi, it simply astounds me that you cannot recognize that men and women’s so called sexual strategies are precisely the same, just as you cannot see that women’s alleged victimhood status is no different at all from your very own. It’s a bit amusing to watch sometimes, but totally bass akwards. You really need… Read more »

Fred Flange, MansLaughter
Guest
Fred Flange, MansLaughter

Much to unpack here. A few brief thoughts: Same sex marriage, as such, will not impede or promote hypergamy. It will validate the stand up comic’s joke: “I’m all for gay marriage. Why can’t they be as miserable as the rest of us?” We straights have fucked marriage to a fare-thee-well, now it’s their turn. And they will. The divorces, and fights over who gets custody of the Pomeranians, have already begun. There are courses to teach lawyers all the permutations, following on other so-called “family law” courses. You may not believe this but there is a re-emerging schism between… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

Insanity: ” . . . it simply astounds me that you cannot recognize that men and women’s so called sexual strategies are precisely the same . . .”

Therefore Loretta has a right to have a baby, on principle.

Ra's al Ghul
Guest
Ra's al Ghul

“guys who want monogamy in marriage are soon going to be shamed as being controlling, domineering, insecure assholes who have a lot to learn from their more enlightened and laid back gay comrades.”

Once you take that last illusion away, what is left for a man to get married? I don’t doubt it is coming, where ever gay marriage becomes accept the straight marriage rate drops

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

I’ve gone through the stages, just can’t figure out some of the stuff. Are there qualities in women that are total hypergamy and in the same woman outlier qualities? First, short is bad. So that is a definite negative on the SMV of the guys you are talking about. Just take off 2 points if they are less than five eight. Second, you still are not understanding that when we speak of alpha we are speaking about sexual alpha. There are men who are great, fantastic, kick ass at what they do — spec ops, CEO, partner at law firm,… Read more »

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