Adaptations – Part III

chart7

Today’s chart comes courtesy of Time’s recent analysis of how Americans met their spouses (h/t to Heartiste). Heartiste provides the most obvious reasoning for these stats:

Every inception source of romance is down over the past 70 years except for bars and online. What happens in bars and online that doesn’t happen in the normal course of events when couples meet through the more traditional routes? That’s right: Intense, relentless, and usually charmless come-ons by drunk and socially clumsy men, that pump girls full of themselves. We’ve entered the age of the narcissistically-charged woman who houses in the well-marbled fat of her skull ham a steroid-injected, Facebook-fed hamster spinning its distaff vessel’s place in the world as the center of existence.

Not to be outdone, but what CH doesn’t address here is the adaptive strategies men are pragmatically employing in order to facilitate their sexual strategy. What this chart illustrates is a graphic representation of the adaptive sexual strategies of the sexes over the course of 70 years.

Granted, in contemporary society women’s attention and indignation needs are as ubiquitously satisfied as men’s need for sexual release (i.e. internet porn) is . This of course leads the mass of women to perceive their social and SMV status to be far greater than it actually is – and when that inflated SMV is challenged by the real world there are countless social conventions already established to insulate women and simultaneously convince men that their perceived status should be the fantasy they believe it is.

It’s important to keep this in mind because men’s adaptive strategies key on women’s self-impressions of their SMV (and often personal worth). I start with this for the last installment of this series because the intergender conditions we’re experiencing today were seeded by the adaptive strategies men used in the past and the contingent counter-adaptations of women employed then too.

From The Abdication Imperative:

The Abdication Imperative

Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an inherently insecure system that constantly tests, assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal reproductive options, long-term provisioning, parental investment, and offspring and personal protection viability in a potential mate. Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts. The evolutionary function of this incessant doubt would be a selected-for survival instinct, but the process of hypergamy’s assessment requires too much mental effort to be entirely relegated to women’s subconscious. Social imperatives had to be instituted not only to better facilitate the hypergamous process, but also to reassure the feminine that men were already socially pre-programmed to align with that process.

In an era when women’s sexual selection has been given exclusive control to the feminine, in an age when hypergamy has been loosed upon the world en force, social conventions had to be established to better silence the doubt that hypergamy makes women even more acutely aware of. And nowhere is this doubt more pronounced than in the confines of a monogamous commitment intended to last a lifetime. Thus we have the preconception “Happy Wife equals Happy Life” pre-programmed into both gender’s collective social consciousness. It’s as if to say “It’s OK Hypergamy, everything’s gonna be alright because we all believe that women should be the default authority in any relationship.”

When you disassemble any operative feminine social convention, on its most base, instinctive level the convention’s latent purpose is to facilitate and pacify hypergamy.

Heirs of Free Love

Over the course of this series I’ve mentioned the “Free Love” movement. When most people hear that term their first mental impression is usually something like the picture I posted for part one; hippies at woodstock smoking pot. Later it quickly morphed into the 70’s adaptation of socially permissive promiscuity. However, it’s very important to understand that this most recent Free Love social push is by no means the first in human history.

Our impression of Free Love today was colored by the Baby Boom generation, but there have been many Free Love “movements” in the past. This was a fascinating read in light of the SCOTUS recent ruling on gay marriage:

A number of utopian social movements throughout history have shared a vision of free love. The all-male Essenes, who lived in the Middle East from the 1st century BC to the 1st century AD apparently shunned sex, marriage, and slavery. They also renounced wealth, lived communally, and were pacifist vegetarians. An Early Christian sect known as the Adamites existed in North Africa in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries and rejected marriage. They practiced nudism and believed themselves to be without original sin.

In the 6th century, adherents of Mazdakism in pre-Muslim Persia apparently supported a kind of free love in the place of marriage,[15] and like many other free-love movements, also favored vegetarianism, pacificism, and communalism. Some writers have posited a conceptual link between the rejection of private property and the rejection of marriage as a form of ownership

[…] The challenges to traditional morality and religion brought by the Age of Enlightenment and the emancipatory politics of the French Revolution created an environment where ideas such as free love could flourish. A group of radical intellectuals in England (sometimes known as the English Jacobins), who supported the French Revolution developed early ideas about feminism and free love.

Notable among them was the Romantic poet William Blake, who explicitly compared the sexual oppression of marriage to slavery in works such as Visions of the Daughters of Albion (1793). Blake was critical of the marriage laws of his day, and generally railed against traditional Christian notions of chastity as a virtue. At a time of tremendous strain in his marriage, in part due to Catherine’s apparent inability to bear children, he directly advocated bringing a second wife into the house.[19] His poetry suggests that external demands for marital fidelity reduce love to mere duty rather than authentic affection, and decries jealousy and egotism as a motive for marriage laws. Poems such as “Why should I be bound to thee, O my lovely Myrtle-tree?” and “Earth’s Answer” seem to advocate multiple sexual partners. In his poem “London” he speaks of “the Marriage-Hearse” plagued by “the youthful Harlot’s curse”, the result alternately of false Prudence and/or Harlotry. Visions of the Daughters of Albion is widely (though not universally) read as a tribute to free love since the relationship between Bromion and Oothoon is held together only by laws and not by love. For Blake, law and love are opposed, and he castigates the “frozen marriage-bed”.

There are certain manosphere writers of note who believe that our current state of “social degeneracy” is unprecedented in human history. And while it’s certain that no prior generation did it in the same manner as the one before it, ours is simply one more chapter in a Free Love flareup that’s punctuated history for many cultures, not just the west – all prompted by the underlying bio-evolutionary / psychological impulses our race has always been subject to.

That said, it’s important to consider the residual social after effects of our most recent Free Love incidence. I can’t speak to the era in the past, but the Free Love ideology is very much an evident part of the egalitarian equalism ideology that’s rooted itself in our contemporary culture. As western culture spreads, so too does that equalism rooted in Free Love.

The Rise of Fem-powerment

By the time the 80s had begun the redefinition of conventional masculinity – masculinity adapted to capitalize on women’s short-term, Alpha Fucks, sexual strategy – was beginning to take shape. By the mid 80s gone were the Captain Kirk and Han Solo archetypal machismo characters. They were systematically replaced by sensitive, supportive, asexual and unthreatening Dr. Huxtable and increasingly contrasted with laughable parodies of conventional masculinity; these roles redefined to fit into shaming and obfuscating any former idea of masculinity and the men who’d attempt to embrace it.

The action heroes of the era abounded, but the expectation to accept a new archetype, the Strong Independent Ass Kicking Woman® was coming into its own.

Granted, the feminization process was gradual. Throughout the 80s this feminization was primarily reinforced by men (or men like them) who’d borne the brunt of the ‘macho men’ of the 70s sexual opportunism. Beta men of the post Disco Generation and the men who identified with them adapted their own Beta Game of increased identification with the feminine, and thus began the rise of the era of fem-powerment.

A new paradigm was evolving; a social environment founded on the same ‘higher selves’ faux-equalism of the Free Love generation(s), but one predicated on Beta men’s enthusiastic supportiveness of women’s imperatives. Gradually the Free Love narrative was sublimated by a one-sided expectation of male supportiveness and self-identification with women.

From Identity Crisis:

Far too many young men maintain the notion that for them to receive the female intimacy they desire they should necessarily become more like the target of their affection in their own personality. In essence, to mold their own identify to better match the girl they think will best satisfy this need. So we see examples of men compromising their self-interests to better accomodate the interests of the woman they desire to facilitate this need for intimacy (i.e. sex). We all know the old adage women are all too aware of, “Guys will do anything to get laid” and this is certainly not limited to altering their individual identities and even conditions to better facilitate this. It’s all too common an example to see men select a college based on the available women at that college rather than academic merit to fit their own ambitions or even choose a college to better maintain a pre-existing relationship that a woman has chosen and the young man follows. In order to justify these choices he will alter his identity and personality by creating rationales and new mental schema to validate this ‘decision’ for himself. It becomes an ego protection for a decision he, on some level, knows was made for him.

Beta Game is predicated upon this effort to become more alike, more in touch with a calculating feminine ideal men they were being conditioned to believe was equitable to their concept of love and would be reciprocated with appreciation and intimacy. Into the 90s, men built their lives around the ‘high self’ hope that if they could just relate more to the feminine – supporting their girlfriends and wives in equalist endeavors women of the past never had access to – they could out-support the ‘ridiculous cad’ parody straw men they’d created for themselves.

The burden of performance that the men of the Free Love eras had hoped to avoid with higher self conditions of love were replaced with a burden of more accessible Beta supportiveness. Thus, into the 90s we had more and more characterization of masculine competition become associated with men out-supporting one another. Stay-at-home Dad became a socially lauded life choice to be proud of. Tootsie, Mr. Mom, Friends, and the culmination of total abdication to feminine identification, Mrs. Doubtfire, became apex examples of men adapting to a socio-sexual environment they’d been conditioned for – a burden of support.

Mrs’ Doubtfire was a particularly egregious depiction of this male to female transition. The apex Beta Father Provider versus the social and sexual Alpha ‘great guy’ in a battle for the genetic rights to the Beta’s children (which he eventually concedes and accepts). This story epitomizes the subtle undercurrent of socially acceptable cuckoldry that would define men’s adaptations during this era.

By assuming the female role, by identifying with the feminine they’d been convinced was so lacking in themselves, men reinforced, aided and abetted the rise of contemporary women’s default entitlements; not just to support, but to conventional masculinity when convenient, and equalist independence when convenient.

There’s a presumption in the manosphere that women have become more masculinized today, and while this is true, the Hypergamy that’s defined every era for women is more dominant now than in any other age. There is nothing that defines the feminine more than the Feminine Imperative’s want for the security of provisioning and sexual optimization that the masculine provides for women.

As men we’re prone to believe that if we’ve become more feminine women have become more masculinized, but is it this or is it the expectation that women need to adapt a masculinized outlook to counter men’s conditioned Beta passivity? Even staunch feminists get tingles from conventionally masculine, unapologetically Alpha men.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] Adaptations – Part III […]

rugby11ljh
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Nothing is Free
Reading this makes me understand that better.

Water Cannon Boy
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Creole Love Call

and there’s Alpha Love Call

DeNihilist
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I lived and worked through the disco era, and the change in women, from being wallflowers in high school, to being outwardly aggressive with the guys they wanted to fuck in the disco’s (I was “picked up” by 3 women during my bartending career) was a sight to behold.

Lot’s of fun back then.

DeNihilist
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If you couldn’t get laid in the era of polyester, you were a total dweeb! When the women came out of their “you chase me” phase, to “I want to fuck” phase, the gates were fully breached and cum was flying everywhere!

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I was born in 1968, went to a small college for four years in the late 1980s, and graduated with a bachelors degree in 1990. For all the people that believed being a nice guy was going to work, it was truly astonishing back then how many quote unquote “ASSHOLES” got laid more often than anyone else, with better looking women and had funny if you like dark twisted humor. I will relate some stories later.

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Obviously, my name is a pseudonym and I will use pseudonyms to protect myself and those people from any harm. Rest assured, that the stories are true and that I am trying to tell them as accurately as possible. I had college friends who were by far more wild with women than I ever was at the time.

Tom
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> Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an > inherently insecure system that constantly tests, > assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal > reproductive options, long-term provisioning, > parental investment, and offspring and personal > protection viability in a potential mate. > Even under the most secure of prospects > hypergamy still doubts. @Rollo – this is a point that needs to be expanded. You’re right that the subconscious requires higher support from societal structures but it also requires support at a level even lower than the subconscious. I would put this down at the limbic level of affect.… Read more »

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The John Stories 1 I remember my freshman year talking to Peter about a young freshman woman named Jenny. Peter said that he thought Jenny was a cute girl to which I agreed, but he thought she was better looking than I did, but I told him that I respected his beliefs even though I did not agree with them. He also said that she seemed innocent to which I responded that I knew she was not. He asked what I meant. I retold the story of what had happened a weekend before. On Saturday night, John said he got… Read more »

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The John Stories 2 The first John story happened in the beginning of the 1st semester of my freshman year.This 2nd one happened at the beginning of my 2nd semester freshman year. John and I had become friends at this point. We were drinking in Titus’s and Trent’s room with . John was there as was Travis. So was Lana, John’s girlfriend of the time. John and Lana are a year older than me, and Titus, Trent and Travis are 2 years older than me. Lana was a pretty blonde woman with big boobs with a nice face and body.… Read more »

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The John Stories 3 and 4 This happened at the very begining of my sophomore year. Maria was a half Irish half Mexican gal my age with a pretty face, great body with big boobs and a nice round well shaped bubble butt. She was pleasant to be around. A lot of men including me wanted her, but knew it was unlikely for us to get her. To be honest, most men couldn’t get her. She came into Tony’s room where we were drinking and was sending obvious verbal and non verbal Indicators of Interest to John. He finally yelled… Read more »

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The Martin Stories Martin came into the college cafeteria laughing in the 2nd semester of my Freshman year.. He then told me what he did 10 minutes ago laughing hysterically. Denise offered to give him a blowjob. He agreed. I liked Denise, but she was not a good looking woman to put it ever too kindly. She told him not to come in her mouth. He agreed and told her to keep going. She did. As she pulled out to breathe air, he came in her left eye. He proceeded to laugh and call her an ugly slut. Five minutes… Read more »

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“Even staunch feminists get tingles from conventionally masculine, unapologetically Alpha men.” One of my plates is a feminist. Constantly posting feminist shit on her FB, talks about how men should respect women always, we need to stop sexual assault, we live in a patriachy, etc. Yet when I randomly grab her tits in public or slap her on the ass because I feel like it, she giggles. I choke her during sex and call her a whore while pulling her hair, she’ll later tell me she would NEVER let anyone else dl that but it’s ok if I do “because… Read more »

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The Tony Stories. Tony was an average height man but was deemed by women to be very good looking and he had a reputation for having a big dick. He would get his room very dirty and women would come and clean it up for him They would also help him with his homework and even do his homework. He would call them love slaves behind their back often and sometimes to their face in a silly charming way to which they laughed. He would say things like, ” If they are old enough to bleed, they are old enough… Read more »

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The David Stories David was a friend of Tony and Charles, but we were only aquaintances. All were 2 years older than me. I was friends with Charles but better friends with Tony. Charles told me of one day before I attended this college, the 3 of them decided to have a contest lasting a week to see who could have sex with the most women. David won despite the fact that he admitted he had a small dick and most women said he was creepy. David won because he would literally have sex with any women who would let… Read more »

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The Simon Stories I have a friend named Simon who went to another college a long time ago. He saw similar things, and he is 2 years younger than me. This happened in the early 1990s. He knew someone named Mike who decided to get into a contest with his friends to see who could sleep with the most women a year. Mike won. Even a highschool girl in the town who heard about the contest walked up to the college and volunteered herself to Mike for sex because he slept with a lot of women the previous years, had… Read more »

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I should add Simon told to never speak to him again. They never spoke again. He was smart enough to stay single all his life. He has gotten more successful with women as he got older.

doclove
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I know that I made a lot of posts and even long posts. Since this article was about the 1980s and 1990s, I decided to post true stories I personally knew of that time. Just think, some men manned up and married those terrible women. The sexual market place was bad and mostly as bad as it is now.

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> or is it the expectation that women need to adapt a masculinized outlook to counter men’s conditioned Beta passivity?

If so, we would expect feminists to double down on their demands when men are more and more bending over backwards to fulfil their requests.. Wait..

Paul Murray
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This is a graph of “spouses and romantic partners”. I’d be interesting in seeing a graph of “how did you meet the last person you had sex with”.

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Excellent wrap up of the series! Proof once again that “feminism” is just one big shit test. Another method to facilitate female hypergamy by essentially getting men to cancel themselves out of the game by displaying BP beta-esque behaviours. Feminism is a very bad joke, a very sick joke with men committing suicide because of it. Had these men had some sort of red pill knowledge before they most likely could have improved their lives & carried on. Even the most ardent badge wearing feminist will still base her arousal on an alpha male that gives her the tingles. All… Read more »

D. Horrenbrand
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Seems that some people never learn and jump from one LTR to another. Like it was hard to just look back and see the patterns! I never get it, why some men can’t grasp few fundamental truths.

They are just losing time. After another LTR only thing that changes is their age, giving them less and less time to finally wake the hell up.

Regards,
__
Datson H.
https://redmalehummingbird.wordpress.com/

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@Tom: “I have noted that women are capable of breaking strong emotional bonds that men are simply incapable of severing. This appears to be “hardwired.””

I say this in the friendliest and most lighthearted manner possible – you must be new here:

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

And welcome.

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Sun, (from last post)
“Hahaha whether you mean what you say or you’re just a bad false flag plant,”

It’s probably just Chokma (chicken) or Insane in deep cover. HA

Simon, (from last post)

Now that’s a FR! Next! Awesome, you AAORK!

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Re: Where people met their spouse 1. Less people go to church now. 2. You don’t pick up chicks at work, lest you get a sexual harassment charge. 3. People have less real human interaction now, thanks to tech. (less of the “friends and family” options) That leaves college (male enrollment is down; fake rape risk), online dating (easy buffer for fearful beta men; the perception of convenience) and bars (which are filled with thirsty betas spewing validation to fat girls, and true alphas/pua’s that get their pick of the women) Basic laws of supply and demand at work here.… Read more »

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I wonder what the evolutionary advantage of “free love” is? Is there a correlation of governments taking the role of provider during the various free love era’s in history? Then it would all make sense. Government provider beats beta provider hands down (you don’t have to occasionally fuck the government like you do a beta provider, plus why have one man provide for you when you can get an entire nation to do it?) Having the provider side of things handled leaves you free to pursue to alpha fucks side of things…which leads to promiscuity as women pursue that strategy.… Read more »

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For those followin how I’m negotiating the end of my LTR this

http://therationalmale.com/2015/06/25/confessions-of-a-pua/comment-page-5/#comment-109098

And the following comment may be of interest.

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CaveClown
July 1st, 2015 at 9:03 am

The government as Beta Bucks is important. The driving force is the M/F ratio in the 15 to 25 cohort. Not enough men? Girls gone wild. 1920 to 1929. And during any major war. It is not mathematical either. It is what the female sees in her environment. Thus college campuses with low M/F ratios are happy hunting grounds – for those not a part of it. Outside agitators. When the M/F ratio is lower than about 0.66 it is girls gone nuts.

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According to the feds, the sex ratio of the USA:

United States

at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
0-14 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-24 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
25-54 years: 1 male(s)/female
55-64 years: 0.97 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.77 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2014 est.)

So the two categories that matter to me are at best exactly even. (I realize there are regional differences)

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Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts.

I have taught the LTR how to give up her fear and doubt. (“When you bond with me does the fear recede?” Her, “Yes”)

None he less she prefers a life with fear to one without it. My guess is that they are hardwired that way. “Always looking for a better deal” requires constant fear. Trying to find a reason to break the current situation to find a “better” one.

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CaveClown
July 1st, 2015 at 9:46 am

That is mathematical. And that is not the correct test. It is all location, location, location. What is her environment like? How about the excluded men? The men off to war?

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CaveClown – “Having the provider side of things handled leaves you free to pursue to alpha fucks side of things…which leads to promiscuity as women pursue that strategy.” I would add that the availability of reliable birth control acts as an oxidizing agent to the fire of hypergamy making it burn hotter and longer than it might otherwise. Without birth control the risk of pregnancy will reduce the frequency of intercourse, and changes the outlook of what constitutes promiscuity. Government provisioning reduces the urgency to secure material provisioning, birth control reduces the is risk of sex, together there is little… Read more »

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“I have taught the LTR how to give up her fear and doubt. (“When you bond with me does the fear recede?” Her, “Yes”)”

Lol on the overt communication with your LTR. Sorry you’re having troubles with the relationship, but your overt communications certainly aren’t helping?

Of course her “fears” are hard-wired (more “anxiety” than fear) but why is that a bad thing?

I’m serious…who says the women in our LTR’s have to be 100% comfortable? In fact, isn’t her having “comfort” when the troubles start?

Subtle dread game…subtle anxiety on her part.

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@badpainter

Good points.

The birth control thing really kills me. I make really good money, but we get “free” birth control for my wife.

Crazy stuff.

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CaveClown – “I’m serious…who says the women in our LTR’s have to be 100% comfortable? In fact, isn’t her having ‘comfort’ when the troubles start?” It would be nice though wouldn’t it? Even 85% comfortable would be nice, assuming that were ever noted. But we can’t have nice things. We perform they never stop testing. We perform they get fat. We perform they get old. We perform and they leave. We perform and they punish us for performing. I mean we are to be the ROCK! but at some point it would be nice to not be burdened with the… Read more »

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@badpainter
@M. Simon

I’m not being critical of anyone here, just pointing out what I see. Overt communication is one of the things I did wrong for a long time in my marriage.

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@ CaveClown

Apologies, I came off as a bit hostile there. Call it a militant empathy for a man who seems to me to have had all he will stand.

I get you on the overt communication thing. It’s a problem. I might be willing to give more than little on that if I ever get the sense there’s a reciprocal effort to simply take my words at face value. I won’t be holding my breath. It’s the paradox of idealism vs. reality.

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“Apologies, I came off as a bit hostile there. Call it a militant empathy for a man who seems to me to have had all he will stand. I get you on the overt communication thing. It’s a problem. I might be willing to give more than little on that if I ever get the sense there’s a reciprocal effort to simply take my words at face value. I won’t be holding my breath. It’s the paradox of idealism vs. reality.” No worries. I hear ya on the empathy. I did a bad job of vetting before I got married,… Read more »

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“I mean we are to be the ROCK! but at some point it would be nice to not be burdened with the bullshit. It’s one thing to perform but there must be a limit to the extraneous and bothersome nonsense……… But really at some point the shit has to stop.”

Said Cypher as he hatched a plan to return to the Matrix as a Bluepill.

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“Said Cypher as he hatched a plan to return to the Matrix as a Bluepill.”

Exactly. As @badpainter said, idealism versus reality.

If you yearn for something that DOES NOT EXIST, you will only be disappointed.

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CaveClown July 1st, 2015 at 9:57 am I’m really not having trouble in the sense that it bothers me. She made me breakfast this morning which she rarely does. I gave her one word answers with a sarcastic tone. When I answered her at all. Her constant anger is “miraculously” clearing up. But ya know? I have lost interest. The children are grown. There is no point in Gaming her any more. As to teaching her Game being ineffective or counter productive? Probably. It is an experiment. And I’m interested in the results. One thing I like to throw in… Read more »

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Off-topic question gents:

I’m in my 30’s, about to be divorced. (3-4 months)

What’s the best forum in the manosphere for me to ask specific game advice, have a progress thread, and so on?

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“It would be nice though wouldn’t it?”

It would be nice if manna fell from the heavens as well.

” . . . at some point it would be nice to not be burdened with the bullshit.”

Even Atlas shrugged. If the burden is too great, put it down and take a rest.

” . . .at some point the shit has to stop.”

All my sickness will be over, when I lay my burden down.
All my troubles will be over, when I lay my burden down.
I’m feeling so much better, since I laid my burden down.

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@Cave Clown: “I’m not being critical of anyone here . . .”

Certainly you are. And your criticism was on point as well. Own it. Don’t do that passive aggressive back pedalling, that shit’s for the women’s circle. Women taught you to do that to keep peace with them.

How’s that workin’ out for ya?

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“@Cave Clown: “I’m not being critical of anyone here . . .”
Certainly you are. And your criticism was on point as well. Own it. Don’t do that passive aggressive back pedalling, that shit’s for the women’s circle. Women taught you to do that to keep peace with them.
How’s that workin’ out for ya?”

Correct. Thanks for the reality check.

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Idealism vs. Reality is not really a paradox the way I see it. “And isn’t it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. .. What is at issue is the conversion of the mind from the twilight of error to the truth, that climb up into the real world which we shall call true philosophy. .. When the mind’s eye rests on objects illuminated by truth and reality, it understands and comprehends… Read more »

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CaveClown – “If you yearn for something that DOES NOT EXIST, you will only be disappointed.”

Too true. But I am an Eagles fan so disappointment is my constant companion.

The only answer for me has been to stop yearning altogether. I am not particularly inspired by what does exist. I relish the little moments that break the numbness of reality. I look for those but don’t seek them. I know they are transitory and hold no deeper meaning, but are simply pure amusement. That realization has largely solved my crisis of motivation.

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@ M. Simon. “As to teaching her Game being ineffective or counter productive? Probably. It is an experiment. And I’m interested in the results. One thing I like to throw in her face is that “I’m teaching you to be a woman. I know female psychology better than you do.” And she admits it is true. That totally disarms her. And it totally amuses me.” How do you explain your actions in the light of the Law #9 Law 9 Win through your Actions, Never through Argument Any momentary triumph you think gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory:… Read more »

M Simon
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CaveClown July 1st, 2015 at 11:09 am This is the very best place to discuss stuff. Without a doubt. A LOT of guys new to Red Pill. A lot with some experience. And the occasional guy who has been living it for a very long time. All with different perspectives. All with something to add. And all willing to hash it out to come up with the best formulas. Or good formulas. Or formulas YOU can use in your particular situation. Or just get you thinking so you can find your own way. I have been RP for a very… Read more »

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@M. simon

I mean a chat room essentially, where I can say, “I approached with blah, blah, blah…she rejected me/gave fake number/gave real number/fucked her in the restroom…what can I do better?”

Like rooshv forum, but not rooshv forum…

TRM is not really the place for that.

Badpainter
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kfg – “All my sickness will be over, when I lay my burden down.
All my troubles will be over, when I lay my burden down.
I’m feeling so much better, since I laid my burden down.”

Exactly.

And I will point out that the issue is the burden of performance, not the performance itself. The burden is performing to an audience insufficiently receptive of the performance. The challenge, the goal is finding the right audience.

M Simon
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sjfrellc July 1st, 2015 at 11:31 am Good question. And I think the answer is that an LTR is not a skirmish. It is a long war. At the beginning the best she could do was stalemate But through constant victories I am now to the point where victory is certain and swift. As I said. I think LTR rules are (some) different. It may also depend on the intellect the female has. But I can’t speak to that since my experience of LTRs with different women is limited. The price of success. Less experience. There is also an element… Read more »

Gunner Q
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CaveClown @ 8:52 am: “1. Less people go to church now.” That’s the effect, not the cause. The wrong time to show interest in a girl is when she’s in church trying to convince herself she’s not a slut or you’re blocking her view of Fuckbuddy Guitarist. My social circles were Christian for most of my life and I’m still half-convinced women don’t like sex at all because of how they behaved towards the merest suggestion of romance. A literal Madonna/whore complex. One of my most disturbing red-pill epiphanies was realizing Churchian parents had warned their daughters away from the… Read more »

M Simon
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CaveClown
July 1st, 2015 at 11:38 am

I was never a chat room fan. So I’m no help. But I have seen what you ask for done here. On occasion.

M Simon
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Badpainter
July 1st, 2015 at 11:52 am

To amplify on that some I’ll repeat something I have been saying for a while.

For LTR success she has to have oneitis for you. That is the audience you are looking for. An you may have to NEXT a lot until she finds you.

sjfrellc
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@Caveclown

Re: Chatrooms, more likely “forums”

I’m sure Rollo would endorse SoSuave Forum on his sidebar links.

insanitybytes22
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“….the Free Love ideology is very much an evident part of the egalitarian equalism ideology that’s rooted itself in our contemporary culture. As western culture spreads, so too does that equalism rooted in Free Love..” Tomassi, it’s a good post, so please don’t take this personally, I mean no disrespect. It’s just that free love is not egalitarian at all and female hypergamy does not rule. Women are the ones who have lost in the equation. Our sexuality used to have worth and value, now we just freely hand it over to men we don’t even like for reasons we… Read more »

sjfrellc
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@M. Simon Good points in regard to my question. I have employed overtness and direct talk in LTR game. But only sparingly. I learned early on in Red Pill awareness not to speak out much about it or to explicate Game. Except to confidants or to those that I am not peripherally invested in. But since I have a seedbank of monetary provisioning, I can rely on that as long as the emotional account is not overdrawn–so much so as to rely on soft economic dread. As in the last essay’s comments at the end, an occasional outburst of indignation… Read more »

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“What do women get out of the deal? Women lose all the way around. ” There you go again. I’ll answer for the group here. We are indifferent to that. “And to console yourselves, you speak endlessly of game, as if you can somehow find away to regain some control over what has been lost, stolen, without even recognizing what is missing. An entire praxeology that has sprung up in the face of such a huge deception, all designed to try and protect and defend male pride. Sheesh, no wonder you guys break my heart.” It is not consolation it… Read more »

walawala
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I don’t like the term “Beta Game” or “Beta Provider Game” because it requires the player to fake a type of behavior which most guys struggle to change…..For many of us..”Beta Game” is “just be yourself game” with an edge…as long as your conscious of what you’re doing…then it’s game and not reverting back to type. I prefer calibration game…or vulnerability game…revealing some intangible about yourself….”I used to be afraid of the dark…but I overcame that by xyz” “With the right person, anything can happen…” The women I’m now gaming, the 7’s and 8’s who are not used to being… Read more »

sjfrellc
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“Do men lose too? Of course, we are tied to each other in this kind of symbiosis and when women can no longer see men’s value in the equation, men can no longer see it in themselves, either.” Your symbiosis is my saprophytic. The Rational Male does indeed see men’s value in the equation (so too does one of the other Three R’s). And that is what you have a problem. In order for one’s imperative to succeed, the other’s must be compromised. Talk about idealism vs. realism. How bout you try: “….we are tied to each other in this… Read more »

insanitybytes22
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“I’ll answer for the group here. We are indifferent to that.” You actually are not indifferent at all, although you try very hard to be. The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred. The hatred of women, the constant attempts to try and make us smaller, to reduce us to nothing more than a crude squeaky toy, betrays your own lack of indifference and reveals great insecurity, and oddly, love. “….we are tied to each other in this kind of non-equalist equilibrium.” If you prefer. I have no desire for anything to be “equal.” Symbiosis… Read more »

Tom
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@CaveClown

> I mean a chat room essentially, where I can say, “I approached
> with blah, blah, blah…she rejected me/gave fake number/gave
> real number/fucked her in the restroom…what can I do better?”

http://pua-zone.com/

CaveClown
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@tom & @sjfrellc

Thanks.

sjfrellc
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“The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred.”

Amusing.

“I have no desire for anything to be “equal.” ”

Maybe so, but NAWALT.

Badpainter
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“The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred.”

Idiot.

And Eve blamed Adam for her choices of fruit that day.

And Adam and all his sons have forever since been trying fix that which they didn’t break, and be responsible for choices they never made.

The daughters of Eve will never be satisfied. The sons of Adam never unburdened.

CaveClown
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I would correct that the opposite of love is indifference, not hate, alas…I did not care enough to do so.

BigAl
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@CaveClown

forum dot mensdivorce dot com

insanitybytes22
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“The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred.” It’s quite true, you know. When one is truly indifferent, there is no emotional investment, whatsoever. Hatred requires a great deal of emotion, passion even. One must care to hate. And Adam and all his sons have forever since been trying fix that which they didn’t break…. Au contraire. Adam’s sin was bad all by itself, for he tried to blame his own irresponsibility on God Himself. “This woman YOU gave me…” Adam was created first, in His image, he walked with God. To whom much is… Read more »

CaveClown
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“And that’s why church dating died.” “New to the church” game. Go to a new church for awhile. Be real friendly, as everyone will want to meet you. Perfect way to meet women in an “innocent” setting. Men will readily and eagerly introduce you to their bored housewives…if you’re into that. Act indifferent to whether you will keep going to the church, and whether you think “her” church is any good, always make sure to miss a few Sundays. This keeps you out of “the flock”, and still an outsider, but still meeting women. Get what you want and GTFO… Read more »

DeNihilist
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The opposite of love is hate, both are feelings, opposite sides of the same coin, can be flipped instantly.

The DEATH of love is indifference.

DeNihilist
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sanity is right on her description of hate, means that caring is still there, hate can always be flipped back to love, but indifference?

No chance in hell.

insanitybytes22
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“How’s that for, “Endless access to sex without consequences, without commitment, no intimacy with women, avoidance of spirituality, no motivation to develop your higher selves.”???”

So that’s how a beta soothes his wounded pride, pretends he’s an alpha, exposes sexual hypocrisy within the church, and performs a rather feminine shit test of God Himself?

And here I thought men couldn’t multi-task.

Badpainter
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inanity – “And here I thought…”

I doubt that.

CaveClown
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“And here I thought men couldn’t multi-task.”

We can’t. That’s why threesomes aren’t nearly as much fun as they appear to be. Too much going on. How am I supposed to concentrate on MY pleasure with TWO chicks fighting over me like that?

Mr T
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Insanity “It’s just that free love is not egalitarian at all and female hypergamy does not rule. ” The egalitarian free love is women’s rights to fuck the guy who gives them the tingle. Beta men don’t fit women’s egalitarian love/fuck. “Women are the ones who have lost in the equation. ” Because the tingle guy didn’t want to marry you. “Our sexuality used to have worth and value,we just freely hand it over to men we don’t even like for reasons we can’t even fathom. ” Freely fucked the tingle guy for free. The reason you don’t fathom is:… Read more »

Dumb Pollock
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Check out A Renegade History of the United States by Thaddeus Russell.

During the American Revolution years in Philadelphia, “Never in American history have more ‘illegimate’ children been born, per capita, than during the ear of independence…From 1790 to 2799 there was one parent of a bastard in roughly twenty adults. Between 1805 to 1814, the next documented ten-year period, there was one illegimate for parent in roughly ten adult in the cradle of American liberty.”

insanitybytes22
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“It should be mentioned that ‘free love’ also played to men’s idealistic concept of love in that freedom from a performance-based love.” Tomassi, do you ever notice how intricate and deliberate this whole perversion seems, almost as if it were deliberately designed by something far more intelligent and evil then us? No woman could have dreamed that all up, no feminists, no political party. We don’t even possess enough awareness of our own selves, let alone of men, to have even imagined a design that would manage to hit people on so many different levels, biological, sexual, spiritual. “Because the… Read more »

Badpainter
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@ Rollo

What, if any, was the impact of AIDS on the early ’90s? Did this have any particular effect on Gen X men and how they behaved? Any lingering after effects of that?

Mr T
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Insanity
“All in good humor here, Mr T, but I managed to marry “the tingle guy.” Anything I may have lacked in attraction, I managed to more then compensate for with seduction. I have no idea how. It simply happened. Best “mistake” I ever made, what can I say.”

I wish you kept ignoring me and my comments .
Ignoring me felt better.
Coming here proves you did marry a tingle guy!.
And you still have no idea how you married a tingle guy?
WHAT?
You doubt your pick?

Atticus
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@ Insanity (Agent Smith) “And to console yourselves, you speak endlessly of game, as if you can somehow find away to regain some control over what has been lost, stolen, without even recognizing what is missing. An entire ideology or praxeology that has sprung up in the face of such a huge deception, all designed to try and protect and defend male pride. Sheesh, no wonder you guys break my heart.” The thing that breaks your heart is that men here and on other sites no longer have women on the pedestal you crave. You hate the red pill, Rollo… Read more »

Mr T
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Insanity
The experience of an attractive woman is not the same of an unattractive one.
If there is a pill to swallow and turn you to Claudia schiffer you would be somewhere else with a different tingle, and your current tingle would be a commenter in this blog.

insanitybytes22
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“I wish you kept ignoring me and my comments. Ignoring me felt better” Of course it felt better. What men tend to fear the most is love. It makes them vulnerable. Being hateful or indifferent isn’t nearly as painful. “The thing that breaks your heart is that men here and on other sites no longer have women on the pedestal you crave.You hate the red pill, Rollo and Dalrock especially, because they lay bare the feminine mystique.” If I genuinely craved a pedestal, you know perfectly well I could have it in about two minutes. With no more effort then… Read more »

ChocDoc
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That’s the finish move for that woman ” To me, the two main points of the red pill are that women are not special and they are not better than men. Forget the mechanics of seducing and living with them upon which you seem so hung up. You said above that women have lost in the equation, they now longer see men’s value in the equation and men can’t see value in themselves. How unbelievably selfish. You didn’t say women don’t see value in men and men don’t see value in women. You just don’t understand that you are not… Read more »

jeff
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Rollo, I gotta beta question for Rollo and whoever else. Wife will give me head if I ask, but not any other time. In Rational Male world that is seen as: Alpha because she will… Beta because I have to ask. If I applied 2000lbs of pressure on her shoulders while foreplay it’s… Alpha because she will… Beta because she will not just go down on me. I use to be AFC until dread worked fantastic in our marriage sex life. Due to the BB forced upon my pathetic life I have hesitations about asking her, when in the past… Read more »

ChocDoc
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And again it’s all about self-interest.
There is no love between man and woman….just self-interest.

Mr T
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“If I genuinely craved a pedestal, you know perfectly well I could have it in about two minutes. With no more effort then it takes to walk into a room, it is all but assured. Terribly unfair, isn’t it?” In other words I can leave my husband at home tonight and knock at the door of my sexy neighbor and flash my boobs when he opens the door and then grab his dick and jerk him off till he comes and at that moment I found myself not at a pedestal but on the floor. Now that is power. The… Read more »

ChocDoc
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insanitybytes22…..i really hope for you, that your husband doesn’t discover RP one day

M Simon
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sjfrellc
July 1st, 2015 at 1:14 pm

“The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred.”

Amusing.

Yes it is. And the Buddhists knew it a LONG time ago. Attachment brings pain.

kfg
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@Insanity: I notice you left out God’s response to Adam.

@Mr. T: “If there is a pill to swallow and turn you to Claudia schiffer you would be somewhere else with a different tingle . . .”

I notice that she left out that she got married four decades ago.

” . . . and your current tingle would be a commenter in this blog.”

It would be an interesting exercise to take the bloke out to a bar, get him a bit tipsy, and turn the conversation to women.

Not Born This Morning
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Jeff-

You are trying to negotiate a sex act in your mind and here because you fear her reaction to a direct request or forced compulsion. You are investigating how you should negotiate with her. This should be a red flag in your mind concerning your sexual self confidence. Sex is a language of sorts where certain acts can be perceived as delightful or repulsive. You are inviting repulsiveness with your apprehension. Psychologically we hamstring ourselves when we cannot completely relax and enjoy.

Mr T
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Insanity
“you know perfectly well I could have it in about two minutes. With no more effort then it takes to walk into a room, it is all but assured.”

And this is from a woman who can’t “fathom” Hypergamy?
You can run but you can’t hide.
Pussy pass?

M Simon
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Women lost? Well no. They gave it up. For things to work the female must commit. The male must commit. Once the choice is made you are stuck with it. You do your best. Continuously. Now everyone is looking for a better deal. All the time. What do women get out of it? Used up at 30. Men? About 20% run up their score and most of the rest get little or nothing. This may be the natural order of things. Which only says that civilization is unnatural. My idiot LTR at least committed to one thing – divorce and… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Spanish word for wives – “esposas”

Spanish word for handcuffs – “esposas”

Spanish word for engagement – “compromiso” (compromise)

Poverty, marriage, monogamy, religion, law…..all are inventions of civilization.

We are not what we pretend to be….what we are conditioned to think we “should” be.

Blaximus
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http://www.examiner.com/article/how-women-s-beauty-interferes-with-men-s-rationality?cid=sm-twitter-6.30.15-9.00pm-BeautyRationalityStudy Wow. Men must reject standards of beauty as defined by group-think. I’ve always been just a tad uncomfortable with all of the SMV talk with regards to females. HB9? whatever. What does that even mean in the big picture? By the time I was in my mid 20″s I had a revelation. A lot of this revelation had to do with having 3 very pretty sisters, dozens of female cousins that I spent a lot of time around, and many more female friends that I grew up with. Watching women grow up from toddlers to womanhood is amazing. It’s… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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The majority of new relationships are now being started in the two environments where men who are not in the upper 20% of the population are heavily disadvantaged.

Seriously, that graph alone tells so many important stories I don’t even know where to start.

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