Adaptations – Part III

chart7

Today’s chart comes courtesy of Time’s recent analysis of how Americans met their spouses (h/t to Heartiste). Heartiste provides the most obvious reasoning for these stats:

Every inception source of romance is down over the past 70 years except for bars and online. What happens in bars and online that doesn’t happen in the normal course of events when couples meet through the more traditional routes? That’s right: Intense, relentless, and usually charmless come-ons by drunk and socially clumsy men, that pump girls full of themselves. We’ve entered the age of the narcissistically-charged woman who houses in the well-marbled fat of her skull ham a steroid-injected, Facebook-fed hamster spinning its distaff vessel’s place in the world as the center of existence.

Not to be outdone, but what CH doesn’t address here is the adaptive strategies men are pragmatically employing in order to facilitate their sexual strategy. What this chart illustrates is a graphic representation of the adaptive sexual strategies of the sexes over the course of 70 years.

Granted, in contemporary society women’s attention and indignation needs are as ubiquitously satisfied as men’s need for sexual release (i.e. internet porn) is . This of course leads the mass of women to perceive their social and SMV status to be far greater than it actually is – and when that inflated SMV is challenged by the real world there are countless social conventions already established to insulate women and simultaneously convince men that their perceived status should be the fantasy they believe it is.

It’s important to keep this in mind because men’s adaptive strategies key on women’s self-impressions of their SMV (and often personal worth). I start with this for the last installment of this series because the intergender conditions we’re experiencing today were seeded by the adaptive strategies men used in the past and the contingent counter-adaptations of women employed then too.

From The Abdication Imperative:

The Abdication Imperative

Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an inherently insecure system that constantly tests, assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal reproductive options, long-term provisioning, parental investment, and offspring and personal protection viability in a potential mate. Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts. The evolutionary function of this incessant doubt would be a selected-for survival instinct, but the process of hypergamy’s assessment requires too much mental effort to be entirely relegated to women’s subconscious. Social imperatives had to be instituted not only to better facilitate the hypergamous process, but also to reassure the feminine that men were already socially pre-programmed to align with that process.

In an era when women’s sexual selection has been given exclusive control to the feminine, in an age when hypergamy has been loosed upon the world en force, social conventions had to be established to better silence the doubt that hypergamy makes women even more acutely aware of. And nowhere is this doubt more pronounced than in the confines of a monogamous commitment intended to last a lifetime. Thus we have the preconception “Happy Wife equals Happy Life” pre-programmed into both gender’s collective social consciousness. It’s as if to say “It’s OK Hypergamy, everything’s gonna be alright because we all believe that women should be the default authority in any relationship.”

When you disassemble any operative feminine social convention, on its most base, instinctive level the convention’s latent purpose is to facilitate and pacify hypergamy.

Heirs of Free Love

Over the course of this series I’ve mentioned the “Free Love” movement. When most people hear that term their first mental impression is usually something like the picture I posted for part one; hippies at woodstock smoking pot. Later it quickly morphed into the 70’s adaptation of socially permissive promiscuity. However, it’s very important to understand that this most recent Free Love social push is by no means the first in human history.

Our impression of Free Love today was colored by the Baby Boom generation, but there have been many Free Love “movements” in the past. This was a fascinating read in light of the SCOTUS recent ruling on gay marriage:

A number of utopian social movements throughout history have shared a vision of free love. The all-male Essenes, who lived in the Middle East from the 1st century BC to the 1st century AD apparently shunned sex, marriage, and slavery. They also renounced wealth, lived communally, and were pacifist vegetarians. An Early Christian sect known as the Adamites existed in North Africa in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries and rejected marriage. They practiced nudism and believed themselves to be without original sin.

In the 6th century, adherents of Mazdakism in pre-Muslim Persia apparently supported a kind of free love in the place of marriage,[15] and like many other free-love movements, also favored vegetarianism, pacificism, and communalism. Some writers have posited a conceptual link between the rejection of private property and the rejection of marriage as a form of ownership

[…] The challenges to traditional morality and religion brought by the Age of Enlightenment and the emancipatory politics of the French Revolution created an environment where ideas such as free love could flourish. A group of radical intellectuals in England (sometimes known as the English Jacobins), who supported the French Revolution developed early ideas about feminism and free love.

Notable among them was the Romantic poet William Blake, who explicitly compared the sexual oppression of marriage to slavery in works such as Visions of the Daughters of Albion (1793). Blake was critical of the marriage laws of his day, and generally railed against traditional Christian notions of chastity as a virtue. At a time of tremendous strain in his marriage, in part due to Catherine’s apparent inability to bear children, he directly advocated bringing a second wife into the house.[19] His poetry suggests that external demands for marital fidelity reduce love to mere duty rather than authentic affection, and decries jealousy and egotism as a motive for marriage laws. Poems such as “Why should I be bound to thee, O my lovely Myrtle-tree?” and “Earth’s Answer” seem to advocate multiple sexual partners. In his poem “London” he speaks of “the Marriage-Hearse” plagued by “the youthful Harlot’s curse”, the result alternately of false Prudence and/or Harlotry. Visions of the Daughters of Albion is widely (though not universally) read as a tribute to free love since the relationship between Bromion and Oothoon is held together only by laws and not by love. For Blake, law and love are opposed, and he castigates the “frozen marriage-bed”.

There are certain manosphere writers of note who believe that our current state of “social degeneracy” is unprecedented in human history. And while it’s certain that no prior generation did it in the same manner as the one before it, ours is simply one more chapter in a Free Love flareup that’s punctuated history for many cultures, not just the west – all prompted by the underlying bio-evolutionary / psychological impulses our race has always been subject to.

That said, it’s important to consider the residual social after effects of our most recent Free Love incidence. I can’t speak to the era in the past, but the Free Love ideology is very much an evident part of the egalitarian equalism ideology that’s rooted itself in our contemporary culture. As western culture spreads, so too does that equalism rooted in Free Love.

The Rise of Fem-powerment

By the time the 80s had begun the redefinition of conventional masculinity – masculinity adapted to capitalize on women’s short-term, Alpha Fucks, sexual strategy – was beginning to take shape. By the mid 80s gone were the Captain Kirk and Han Solo archetypal machismo characters. They were systematically replaced by sensitive, supportive, asexual and unthreatening Dr. Huxtable and increasingly contrasted with laughable parodies of conventional masculinity; these roles redefined to fit into shaming and obfuscating any former idea of masculinity and the men who’d attempt to embrace it.

The action heroes of the era abounded, but the expectation to accept a new archetype, the Strong Independent Ass Kicking Woman® was coming into its own.

Granted, the feminization process was gradual. Throughout the 80s this feminization was primarily reinforced by men (or men like them) who’d borne the brunt of the ‘macho men’ of the 70s sexual opportunism. Beta men of the post Disco Generation and the men who identified with them adapted their own Beta Game of increased identification with the feminine, and thus began the rise of the era of fem-powerment.

A new paradigm was evolving; a social environment founded on the same ‘higher selves’ faux-equalism of the Free Love generation(s), but one predicated on Beta men’s enthusiastic supportiveness of women’s imperatives. Gradually the Free Love narrative was sublimated by a one-sided expectation of male supportiveness and self-identification with women.

From Identity Crisis:

Far too many young men maintain the notion that for them to receive the female intimacy they desire they should necessarily become more like the target of their affection in their own personality. In essence, to mold their own identify to better match the girl they think will best satisfy this need. So we see examples of men compromising their self-interests to better accomodate the interests of the woman they desire to facilitate this need for intimacy (i.e. sex). We all know the old adage women are all too aware of, “Guys will do anything to get laid” and this is certainly not limited to altering their individual identities and even conditions to better facilitate this. It’s all too common an example to see men select a college based on the available women at that college rather than academic merit to fit their own ambitions or even choose a college to better maintain a pre-existing relationship that a woman has chosen and the young man follows. In order to justify these choices he will alter his identity and personality by creating rationales and new mental schema to validate this ‘decision’ for himself. It becomes an ego protection for a decision he, on some level, knows was made for him.

Beta Game is predicated upon this effort to become more alike, more in touch with a calculating feminine ideal men they were being conditioned to believe was equitable to their concept of love and would be reciprocated with appreciation and intimacy. Into the 90s, men built their lives around the ‘high self’ hope that if they could just relate more to the feminine – supporting their girlfriends and wives in equalist endeavors women of the past never had access to – they could out-support the ‘ridiculous cad’ parody straw men they’d created for themselves.

The burden of performance that the men of the Free Love eras had hoped to avoid with higher self conditions of love were replaced with a burden of more accessible Beta supportiveness. Thus, into the 90s we had more and more characterization of masculine competition become associated with men out-supporting one another. Stay-at-home Dad became a socially lauded life choice to be proud of. Tootsie, Mr. Mom, Friends, and the culmination of total abdication to feminine identification, Mrs. Doubtfire, became apex examples of men adapting to a socio-sexual environment they’d been conditioned for – a burden of support.

Mrs’ Doubtfire was a particularly egregious depiction of this male to female transition. The apex Beta Father Provider versus the social and sexual Alpha ‘great guy’ in a battle for the genetic rights to the Beta’s children (which he eventually concedes and accepts). This story epitomizes the subtle undercurrent of socially acceptable cuckoldry that would define men’s adaptations during this era.

By assuming the female role, by identifying with the feminine they’d been convinced was so lacking in themselves, men reinforced, aided and abetted the rise of contemporary women’s default entitlements; not just to support, but to conventional masculinity when convenient, and equalist independence when convenient.

There’s a presumption in the manosphere that women have become more masculinized today, and while this is true, the Hypergamy that’s defined every era for women is more dominant now than in any other age. There is nothing that defines the feminine more than the Feminine Imperative’s want for the security of provisioning and sexual optimization that the masculine provides for women.

As men we’re prone to believe that if we’ve become more feminine women have become more masculinized, but is it this or is it the expectation that women need to adapt a masculinized outlook to counter men’s conditioned Beta passivity? Even staunch feminists get tingles from conventionally masculine, unapologetically Alpha men.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Atticus
Atticus
6 years ago

@Sun. So true. I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t getting ass raped in a divorce. Bittersweet because like it here.

@Rollo. You are priceless. I’ll be stunned when an issue you haven’t covered comes up. That said, there was a part in Strauss’s “The Game” when he talked about switching from Attraction to Comfort. (I’m sure you’ve covered it too). Maybe M Simon needs a little less attraction and a little more comfort.

ace
ace
6 years ago

insanitybytes22

July 1st, 2015 at 12:59 pm
““I’ll answer for the group here. We are indifferent to that.”
You actually are not indifferent at all, although you try very hard to be. The flip side of love however, is not indifference, it is actually hatred.”

M Simon
6 years ago

Atticus July 1st, 2015 at 4:37 pm Well Rollo busted my chops a while back (a year?) about FM and so I thought a month or two ago LTR was better. ===================== And yes. Some weeks things went well and some weeks I had to let her hang out to dry. Usual in a LTR if you are going to keep frame. This week it was just once too often. Exceeded my threshold. And with the kids all out of college and on their own (more or less) the candle did not seem worth the Game anymore. Part of what… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Atticus July 1st, 2015 at 5:26 pm The LTR never responded well to comfort. I got the Beta treatment from her every time I tried providing comfort. Under normal circumstances. One time was different. There was a time when she was bed ridden for 12 weeks and didn’t have the energy for anger. I provided comfort. No backlash from her. But as soon as she had excess energy it went into her anger. And this despite the fact that the anger made her feel bad. When ever I could get her to give up her anger she would tell me… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

M. Simon: You have been approaching the matter as, first, an engineer, and then as an instructor of engineering.

Perhaps it is time to try approaching the matter as an animal.

A Definite Beta Guy
6 years ago

Women lost? Well no. They gave it up.

Very much true. They demanded the right to pursue their own mates and saw marrying through archaic institutions like church as oppressive. That means bars and online dating.

Have fun, kids.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@kfg ..”Certainly. So what? I would point out, however, that she is actually the result of a long line of accidents, each tested against life and death. You seem to be spinning some variant of the “social construct – inner beauty narrative.” That isn’t an accident, it’s a lie. The long line of accident argument is part of what I’m talking about when I say to mind your thoughts. It doesn’t mean anything, it’s a form of pedestalizing. Her looks don’t mean that she comes from a line of anything, tested by anything. Careful man. And hell no, I don’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“It doesn’t mean anything . . .”

And cats are reproducing with their cousins the rainbow trout.

” . . .it’s a form of pedestalizing.”

I don’t want fuck a Grecian urn. I don’t go around smashing them either. I’m not interested in living in beige world.

“If you elevate her to some special evolutionary status . . .”

I didn’t do anything to her. She is what she is, and it’s babies all the way down past even where here great grandparents looked like fish.

A Definite Beta Guy
6 years ago

Another aside, Rollo correctly points out that the history of free love is long, but there’s a reason those societies don’t exist today. War, pestilence and simple economics wiped them out. Took a look at the Wiki. Apparently the king of Austria didn’t find their antics too amusing. In contrast, when the Byzantine Empire started falling to the Muslims, the Emperor’s response was to grant peasants land along the frontier, in exchange for military service. Not unlike the American Frontier of the 1800s. Kept the Muslims out for centuries. Just normal Beta guys, living their normal Beta life, killing raiders.… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

M Simon.
I’m not worried about your LTR I’m worried about you, she might do :

A, go on the Oprah Winfrey show to tell her 40 years of emotional abuse by you.

B,go straight to the Law and file charges against you.
She sounds like a basket case.

Striver
Striver
6 years ago

@Sun Wukong: The book “Bowling Alone” explains some of the social changes in how people get together. Bowling Alone explained that while people still bowl as many games per capita as ever, membership in bowling leagues has plummeted. People will not join groups any more if they can help it. It’s a consumer culture. People will “shop for the best deal”, including churches, and not put any more into it than they have to. Pastor says something they don’t like, on to the next church. Church attendance has probably changed a lot less than participation in auxiliary groups. Or someone… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

kfg July 1st, 2015 at 7:00 pm Well yes. The description is engineering. After all that is what an engineer does. Analyzes. Looks for clues. But I think that my behavior conforms to animal rqmts. I don’t think engineering gives girls tingles. In fact my daughter has avoided the field (degree in ChemE) because the men involved don’t give her tingles. I have described from time to time women coming on to me spontaneously. I aver that it is not because they recognize my now innate engineering capabilities. Before the first GF taught me the rudiments of game in ’62… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

An introduction to Proton-Boron Fusion !
I better stick to analyzing insanity22.

M Simon
6 years ago

Mr T July 1st, 2015 at 8:09 pm Those are possibilities. But I think the probabilities are low. First off I have a way of maintaining relations with ex-GFs. Most of them have remained friends even after breaking up. I even introduce them to my latest GF and have seen the ex and the latest become friends. And then there is her oneitis. And the Alpha Widow effect. And there is also her tendency to want to compete with the new girl. In our dating period when I was still spinning lots of plates that was one of her favorites.… Read more »

Striver
Striver
6 years ago

@M Simon

I feel your pain. There is gaming and there is actual pain. What you are describing just sounds like an endless cycle. Good luck.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

BP – the aids time in my reality may have slowed a few of the players down, but did not stop them. Just bag it was the motto. Now it appears that the few playa buddies I have left don’t even worry about the bag, even when doing their sex tours in Thailand.

Don’t know if it is complacency, old age so not worried about dying as much, the modern drugs, or they just don’t believe it cuz no one we know who is hetrosexual, has ever had the dis-ease.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Striver

People will not join groups any more if they can help it. It’s a consumer culture.

Funny you should put it that way. I remember when I saw an ad start popping up before YouTube videos that seemed designed for people that don’t have friends or join groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVyYWy4dgc8

They literally shot the commercial like it’s made for people without friends.

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

In addition to attractive bachelors, who are cleaning up big-time, homosexuals and guys who like masturbating to pornography have also gained big time from sexual liberation. Masturbation IS sex and usually very good sex too. The main difference between masturbation and partner sex is the lack of validation. You can’t boast to the other guys. The extra pleasure of partner sex is minimal and shouldn’t matter that much to truly masculine men, who are more interested in power than physical pleasure. Obsession with physical pleasure is a mark of effeminacy. All the resentment I see on this sight boils down… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
6 years ago

“Our sexuality used to have worth and value, now we just freely hand it over to men we don’t even like for reasons we can’t even fathom.” “Men have benefited the most from free love, birth control, declining marriage rates. Endless access to sex without consequences, without commitment, no intimacy with women, avoidance of spirituality, no motivation to develop your higher selves.” This is above Insanity’s pay grade so I’ll just leave it here for the edification of others. WOMEN DISPLAY, Men Lek, WOMEN CHOOSE. Women ‘choose’ the socio sexual behaviour that benefits them the most under the prevailing economic/social/political… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

Freethinker – “Also, note that the lower 80% of males are always losers in one way or another. If it isn’t access to women, there is some other ranking criteria. Human society is always a pecking order. The sexual alphas who get to fuck lots of women maybe get kicked around by the money alphas or the size alphas. If you’re not in the lower 80% in one way, you’ll be lower 80% some other way.”

Ding-Ding-Ding!

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

The power of the poosy!

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

I left for my wildlife habitat property at about 1:30 today and returned at nightfall. The long days of summer are like a vacation in the evening when it gets dark lately. Watching rural neighbors behavioral psychology is good therapy. They are always at their worst because they are struggling and their behavior is the least common denominator. I get the neighborhood female with three children from three father’s (children each ten years apart with the youngest 8 and 18) to cut my farmstead grass with the riding mower. She as a woman kept frame for years, but now is… Read more »

stuttie
6 years ago

@ rollo – really enjoyed that series, thanks.

http://nypost.com/2015/06/29/i-had-sex-in-the-cockpit-and-other-confessions-of-a-stewardess/

I had to post it…

BreakinnBenjaminn
BreakinnBenjaminn
6 years ago

@sjfrellc I haven’t yet gotten around to answering your post from eat, pray, love. I’ll get to it tomorrow. !————————————————————————————————–! On another note, I just got home from drinks with a girl I met at the bar two weeks ago. This is the first time I’ve ever attempted to meet a girl for drinks that I’d just met recently prior to that. It didn’t go incredibly, but it wasn’t a disaster by any means; it was just conversation that ended with her excusing herself to go to a girlfriends house (supposedly). The venue was not exactly ideal, but it is… Read more »

BreakinnBenjaminn
BreakinnBenjaminn
6 years ago

@stuttie

‘For more than a decade, Mandy Smith was an “international air hostess” for Virgin Atlantic Airways.’

Oh, the irony. Heghh

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@jeff first, this is perfect: “You are trying to negotiate a sex act in your mind and here because you fear her reaction to a direct request or forced compulsion. You are investigating how you should negotiate with her. This should be a red flag in your mind concerning your sexual self confidence. Sex is a language of sorts where certain acts can be perceived as delightful or repulsive. You are inviting repulsiveness with your apprehension. Psychologically we hamstring ourselves when we cannot completely relax and enjoy” if you ask, “insanity please go down on me”, that’s beta if you… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

in the last thread, there was a comment “women are never PUAs” or some such I’ve known women who are players (think women who like to fuck handsome fireman who are younger than they are) they run kino, eye contact, flattery, in heat but they don’t escalate they want the man to say, I want to fuck her and take the lead can’t negotiate desire (Rollo should write a book with this title), and for women it means they don’t want to manipulate to the point the man has desire, they just want him to have desire. they want to… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@BreakinnBenjaminn July 2nd, 2015 at 1:13 am you failed 10 shit tests, and she bailed we all fail (except yareally,who is too busy getting laid) without an example from you of how it went: – kino – eye contact – agree and amplify shit tests – neg I gather you were doing the last as you mentioned “tease” here: “I am, admittedly, next to useless when it comes to being assertive, doing it smoothly, and showing an intense sexual interest in them. Every attempt I made at teasing and gaming this girl seemed to go over her head.” you don’t… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Striver July 1st, 2015 at 9:57 pm Well there is pain. But it is not too difficult to handle. I treat it as just another problem to solve. And funny enough I have solved it. If she submits totally to me the crazy goes away. She has done that. On occasion. More than once. Her report to me? “Had I known it would feel this good I’d be doing it all the time.” A lie of course. But I believe a true report base on the currently (at the time) working personality. Trouble is that she is more attached to… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

freethinker
July 1st, 2015 at 10:27 pm

You underestimate the value of tactile sensation. The value of the smell of hot pussy.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“@Atticus, I was just wondering if there’d been a mutiny with the ‘first mate’:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/30/mutiny/

It’s posts like this that make me think marriage, unless there are strong social constructs to keep the woman in line, is only for a select group of men.

Marriage is nothing more than a social construct to attempt to relieve men of the burden of performance…no?

M Simon
6 years ago

Johnycomelately
July 1st, 2015 at 11:30 pm

Women ‘choose’ the socio sexual behaviour that benefits them the most under the prevailing economic/social/political ecology.

I think that hints at the point I was making in July 2nd, 2015 at 9:05 am

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

CaveClown – “Marriage is nothing more than a social construct to attempt to relieve men of the burden of performance…no?”

Marriage is supposed to be the incentive that makes the burden bearable. It’s a compromise of mutual sacrifice for mutual benefit. It seems clear enough that when men question the benefits of marriage they also question the need to fully participate in the larger society.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“Had I known it would feel this good I’d be doing it all the time.” A lie of course. But I believe a true report base on the currently (at the time) working personality.” You remind me of me. All this negotiating. If it works for you, gives you what you need, then go for it. But I’ve been reading your posts and realizing just how good I have become at negotiating with my wife. Her and I have completed the terms for her sexual compliance. Her and I have completed the terms for her compliance in keeping the house… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

CaveClown July 2nd, 2015 at 9:20 am In my estimation marriage today is only for a man who is capable of being dominant. Where else does it seem to work? Old money upper classes. Divorce is frowned on there. Intensely. Lawyers are hired to make iron clad marriage contracts. And what else do we know? Even if a prole were to enter into such a contract the law system would not honor it. If we could make marriage into a working contractual system a lot of our current difficulties could be alleviated. I would say look up Jewish Law. Ketubah.… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

CaveClown
July 2nd, 2015 at 9:39 am

As far as I can tell there is no negotiating. She does it my way or I cut her off. When she has come around to my point of view (temporarily and situationally) we resume. What has changed is that I no longer am willing to tolerate the reversions. I no longer think “maybe this time she gets it”.

There were good reasons for holding that view in the past. The illusion (hope) served a purpose. That purpose has been accomplished. The children are grown. NEXT.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“In my estimation marriage today is only for a man who is capable of being dominant.”

I’m perfectly capable of being dominant. I’m no natural alpha, but a strong beta at the very least.

However, I fucked up in the beginning and didn’t hold to my frame. I lived in hers.

Also, I fell for the old bait and switch. Sex took a nose dive literally on the first day of our honeymoon. I’ve spent the last decade negotiating.

The negotiations only started “working” after she turned 30.

M Simon
6 years ago

I probably should add that the decision was not sudden. I started making moves intensely in the current direction three years ago. And I advised her of my intention. Why three years? It takes time to break emotional habits.

The emotional ropes were whittled down to a thread. The thread broke.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

“Marriage is nothing more than a social construct to attempt to relieve men of the burden of performance…no?” God, I wish. Hah ha. I see what you did there. Marriage (or an extended LTR) is harder and more is at stake. The burden (of performance) is more. But with mastery the burden is a fine compromise to potential alternatives. I still think myself that it fits me better than being non-married this past 25 years. Confidants say I’m lucky. I say I’m skilled. I’m not glossing myself or bragging. Rollo knows and I know it can all end tomorrow if… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

It was a given accepted culturally that men should fuck sluts for as long as it takes and then find the “good wife” to marry and have kids. What feminists wanted is to reverse the “trend” and reconditioning men and society to accept that it is WOMEN who should fuck the the male/tingle as long as it takes and get the tingle out of her system and then find the providers to marry and have kids. That’s basically it. Now how successful feminists are at flipping biology? Ps To me, I love the new world’s order. Just don’t get married… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

If you weren’t afraid before, become very afraid now!

Seems like they just want to abolish straight marriage all together.

https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/30/the-future-of-sex-is-terrifying

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@M Simon July 2nd, 2015 at 9:05 am Regarding everything you said in that post, esp: “Gentlemen – in your next Field Reports (FRs) see if you can keep an eye open for evidence of what I have reported. One of the tells is a change in voice. Each personality has its own voice.” I see evidence of what you report all the time, every time. And it is made worse by Main Stream Media. I just see it as a fixture on the battlefield that is Mother Nature. I don’t see LTR’s as a battle. In most ways they… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

sjfrellc July 2nd, 2015 at 10:37 am My first rule is that she has to submit. She gets nothing without that. Once she submits all the other things come out. (Comfort, the Honey Do list etc.) I’m not incapable of those other things. “If I knew it would be this good I’d do it all the time.” I just won’t give them without submission. It may be a defect in me (or a virtue) but I don’t enjoy doing that other stuff in response to whining. Anger. Cajoling. If she submits I gladly volunteer. She doesn’t even have to ask.… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

@ DeNihilist

The linked article doesn’t quite go far enough. The future is the codification of the idea that consent must be obtained prior to and retained after the act is complete. There are truly baffling articles floating the net espousing the idea that consent can be withdrawn post-facto without consideration of the amount of time that has passed.

When the law allows victims to define the crime justice is dead.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

I would like to take time out and quote something excellent that Forge the Sky said in the Eat,Prey, Love essay comments.

“I’ve found that, in general, RP and game feel more like the awakening of buried impulses than the addition of foreign behaviours.”

I’m not sure why he spelled behaviors wrong, but dang I feel the same way.
That feeling that he describes really resonates with me.
It also validates how “game is not adversarial” to me.
Very perceptive Forge.

insanitybytes22
6 years ago

“It also validates how “game is not adversarial” to me.”

Well, it shouldn’t be, but from the numerous comments in these threads, obviously there are a great many people trying to make it so.

“….the awakening of buried impulses than the addition of foreign behaviours….”

This really is a good description. Men and women respond very naturally and pleasantly to each other when we just allow biology to express itself. So many of you seem to be trying to make political statements with your love lives and to seek revenge for perceived slights. No wonder the world is broken.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

“Taking down your neighbor won’t take you any higher

I burned my own damn finger pokin’ someone else’s fire

I’ve never gotten taller makin’ someone else feel small

If you ain’t got nothin’ nice to say don’t say nothin’ at all

Pourin’ salt in my sugar won’t make yours any sweeter

Pissin’ in my yard ain’t gonna make yours any greener

And I wouldn’t know about the rocks in your shoes

So I’ll just do me and honey you can just do you”

Got those song lyrics by Kacey Musgraves in my head.

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

@Jeff Regarding bj’s, there are a couple things I’ve learned about women. One element of a woman’s aversion to a dick in her mouth is part of the “Anti-Slut Defense” (ASD). Another, is the jism payoff at the end, which can either be a problem, or, it could be a benefit. The difference being a matter of frame and marketing/sales. As it stands, she either feels bad doing it, as she associates it with a shameful, degrading act, or, she doesn’t appreciate how much you enjoy them. Two things have helped me in the past to flip the frame over:… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

“Men and women respond very naturally and pleasantly to each other when we just allow biology to express itself.”

So you are saying Just Be Yourself?

…he……snicker’s…..

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@M. Simon – Thanks for sharing all this about your LTR/FM (I don’t give a shit what you call her). My observation: AWALT My recommendation: Next. One of the quandries I often find myself in when feeling negative about myself and the outcomes in my marriage/family are the examples of guys here who make marriage work. I can never square it all with my experience. But then I realized I have never really been honest with myself about my divorce. I actually instigated it. I was where you are at now – only at 30 years old and 9 years… Read more »

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

ScribbaG I’m glad for you being out and putting in the work. Being “in the game” when you are out is far different then just “being out”. It’s a matter of paying attention and responding to what you observe: it’s interactive. Whereas, in the previous life, “being out” was more of a spectator sport for me. Bowling, and watching bowling, are two different experiences, but very akin to being out BP, and out RP. Being out and being engaged and interactive is far more enjoyable than being a wallflower – win or lose. It’s like what they say regarding fishing/job/work:… Read more »

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

@M Simon

Three words to contemplate:

“Fuckbuddy” (FB)

“Pivot”

Pragmatic

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@M Simon (July 2nd, 2015 at 9:18 am) >You underestimate the value of tactile sensation. The value of the smell of hot pussy. And drug addicts could say I underestimate the joy of mainlining cocaine or the sense of total peace that comes from a good shot of heroin. Or to take a better example (since I have no experience with those drugs), sugar eaters could say I’m underestimating the joy of a sugar-packed dessert. I have plenty of experience eating sugar and I know the sugar-fans are telling the truth when they say it is great, but it isn’t… Read more »

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

“It’s never about the pleasure of sex, it’s always about showing off to the other guys.”

Oh?

So I should have been bragging to the guys about the warthogs and warpigs I was having sex with because it felt good? Shit! Here, I thought I would be humiliated or shamed if I told guys about the fatties I indulged in.

My enjoyment of sex that I’ve had with fat chicks nullifies your proposed “axiom”.

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@Vulpine: What you are saying is that validation is not everything, and that is true. So change my “never” to “less” and “always” to “more” and we get the following: “Sex for most men is less about pleasure and more about showing off to other guys”. When a guy is not trying to show off to other guys, he typically lowers standards and has sex with fat and ugly women (like your warthogs), or uses prostitutes, engages in homosexual sex (if all they want is blow jobs and anal, and don’t care about Simon’s pussy smell), or he masturbates. When… Read more »

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

“Where did I suggest men should brag?”

“What you (and the other posters in this forum) are underestimating is the central role of validation in sex. That is the real reason you want women, not pussy smell or tactile sensation. You want to run up a score so you won’t feel like a loser in front of other men (and perhaps in front of women too)

I’d have to tell someone the “score” in order to be revered for the score.

You’re clearly not worth responding to any further. Adieu.

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

“This really is a good description. Men and women respond very naturally and pleasantly to each other when we just allow biology to express itself. ”

This is when, ,,say,,Claudia Schiffer respond naturally and pleasantly to Tingle men like Bon Jovi in her 20s up to her 30s and let her biological tingle express itself and then marry Matthew Vaughan.

How nice.
All we need is tingle (I mean luve)

M Simon
6 years ago

scribblerg July 2nd, 2015 at 11:48 am , My only advice is this. 40 years is a long time, so recognize that after such a long time being married that you have no idea how to be single. You will have to adjust. Being alone is harder than it looks. I’m not interested in divorce. Just emotional distance. And that is not difficult. I have spent half my time with her keeping my distance. I intend to do what I did when we were dating. Spin plates. And I expect it will have the same effect it had when we… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Re: Open Mic Field Report – A few more tidbits. What I got out of reading Vulpine’s field reports was a sense of meta-game. He talks about moving to a new town and birthing a new self there in many ways, with being successful PUA large among them. I was surprised about how much thought and analysis he put into the group social dynamics of the bars and town he was in. I simply never really thought about any of it in the past. This is why I did that particular open mic last night – social intelligence. I actually… Read more »

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@Vulpine (though he isn’t interested, I will address his comment for the sake of other readers) and also @Rollo: >Where did I suggest men should brag?” >You want to run up a score so you won’t feel like a loser in front of other men (and perhaps in front of women too)” Very often, the other men are not real, but rather an inner voice which serves as a proxy for other men. I pointed this out in my original comment. This inner voice is what causes the shame at masturbating, having sex with other men (blow jobs and anal… Read more »

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago
freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@Vulpine: what disturbs you so much about my comments? Pointing out that blow jobs and anal are the sorts of sex that men do with other men? Pussy smell? M Simon was the one who brought up pussy smell. @Rollo: your Arm Candy is full of boasting about your notch count and how hot these women were. Oh, you self-deprecate in the usual way men do, but it’s still boasting. And then there’s Scribblerg’s comment and also M Simon’s, just a few comments above my comment here, both of them boasting, the one about how his wife was eye candy… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

freethinker – “Genes code the body, they don’t produce most behavior.”

Bullshit.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150507135919.htm

The above study is one gene. Just one.

There’s a reason that an Englishman is not a Scotsman and it’s not matter of fashion or choice of drink. The end result of all social constructs is to incorporate those constructs as inborn preferences in the genetics of the future generations.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@freethinker There is no wired in preference for HB10s. Hahah, ok. That must be why 38 years of having the FI drum “IT’S NOT WHAT’S OUTSIDE, IT’S WHAT’S INSIDE THAT COUNTS!” in to my head has convinced me to not react with complete revulsion to the idea of banging fat chicks. It’s all social conditioning. No hard wiring there whatsoever. Oh wait, no. I find fat chicks revolting and can’t get hard for ugly chicks even if they have a spectacular personality despite the prevailing message of society to men being “Don’t be shallow!” for my entire life. I wonder… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

Insanity.
Who do you blame for the broken world?

Do we put the blame on beautiful women who ended up marring the non tingle beta provider (after logically waiting for his turn) or we put the blame on the non tingle beta for a set up of his own making?

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

Pfffft, freethinker’s just a troll looking to stir shit.

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@badpainter:

I’ve been saving the link below for use with the someone posting a junk science study:

http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/believe-it-or-not-most-published-research-findings-are-probably-false

But anyway, that study simply points out that chemical responses in some people are stronger than others, same as some people may have higher baseline testosterone than others. THOSE sorts of differences can be genetically coded, but that is far from saying there is an innate preference for HB10s.

Genetically coding English vs Scot would be like genetically coding language. So how is it that I’m fluent in English but my ancestors spoke fluent French and German?

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

>Then perhaps you’d care to explain the effects oxytocin, testosterone and progesterone have on human’s moods and the resultant behavior prompted by them? These can be coded genetically, and they do indeed have an enormous impact on the body. But it is far cry from saying some men are naturally more aggressive because of higher testosterone than other men (for better or worse, since too much testosterone has downsides as well as upsides), and that aggressiveness will be passed on to their descendents, to saying that English and Scot behavior is genetically coded, or that men prefer slim women to… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Sun Wukong – “I find fat chicks revolting and can’t get hard for ugly chicks even if they have a spectacular personality…”

I took a second job because I like money. About 40% of the new co-workers are female. One is a very nice, very sweet young gal with a plain but sort of cute face very pleasant to work with, and a good worker. But she’s about 70lbs overweight. Makes me a bit sad.

M Simon
6 years ago

freethinker
July 2nd, 2015 at 1:34 pm

My real wife is 3′ 6″ and 28A. I was just making that other stuff up for validation.

BTW your earlier point about hearing voices? They have pills to make that stop. Or start.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” ‘Yeah, you gotta stop doing that. Nobody gives a shit.” ”

Listen to the kid. If people in that scene are reacting negatively to your age, it’s because you’re projecting it as an issue.

If you can’t quite pull that off yet, flip the script and become one of the Old People, in the traditional sense. One of the Gods Who Walked the Earth, before mere fallen mortals came to dominate. If there’s a girl under 24 who sings Joni Mitchell songs: prime target.

freethinker
freethinker
6 years ago

@M Simon: as with Vulpine, I seem to have a sore point with you. I have some real work to do now, so feel free to jump on me without fear of my responding.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

BP – have not seen those other writings. What gets me about this article, is who! is proposing this law – The American Law Institute. They basically write the laws that the federal and state governments then pass. This is getting real now. Following on, I have banged my wife more then 3 thousand times in our marriage. I think we have it down as to whether it is consensual or not. But this law if passed would mean that every time we banged henceforth, I would have to get her explicit permission? The walls are falling faster then I… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

freethinker you’re a fool.

“So how is it that I’m fluent in English but my ancestors spoke fluent French and German?”

ummm… because English is a derivative hybrid of both French and German, and several others? Maybe because brain plasticity with respect to language makes it possible to learn a new language?

I guess there such a thing a stupid question.

M Simon
6 years ago

Rollo Tomassi
July 2nd, 2015 at 1:44 pm

Don’t leave out endocannabinoids. You have more receptors for those than for any other signaling chemical in the body.

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2013/12/12/marijuana-and-erectile-dysfunction-cannabinoids-may-reduce-ed-in-high-cholesterol-patients/

There is not much literature but there are numerous anecdotal reports of cannabis enhancing or promoting stiffness. One anecdote I read some years back claimed “Better than Viagra”.

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

Beauty is learned, not innate.
WHAAAAT?

Weren’t there a million study that infants tend to notice and stare at good looking faces.
I experienced that myself when a little girl looked at me and then screamed out of fear.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

FT – gotta agree with the others vis-à-vis language. Living in a very multi cultural city, I know a lot of folk who had their native tongue spoken at home and English outside the home. They are fluent in both. One of my father’s regrets near the end, was that he forbade my mother (French) and himself (Italian) to speak anything but English in our household growing up. He realized later that it would have helped his kids in this world. We put both our boys into French immersion, one made it and is fluent in 2 languages now, the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“If you want to posit a biological reason for men to be attracted to certain body configurations, you have to show the genes which bring about this preference . . .”

Right. And if you want to show gravity, you have to show the particle exchange. Stop bothering me with all that “ballistics” nonsense until you do.

“So how is it that I’m fluent in English but my ancestors spoke fluent French and German?”

Without exposure the gene is only expressed until about age 12. Epigenetic switching matters.

Vulpine
Vulpine
6 years ago

@ M Simon RE: Déja Vù “double-back” “It’s never about the pleasure of sex, it’s always about showing off to the other guys.” “Pussy is pussy to a man who doesn’t need validation from the internal chorus of other men in his head.” I see: Pussy is pussy, though it’s never pleasurable, just as buttsex or oral with another man can’t be enjoyable (as oral or anal, according to the same standards, is for/by/with another man, who doesn’t derive pleasure from the sex, either, they are only showing off to each other), but only for a man who doesn’t need… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Rollo Tomassi
July 2nd, 2015 at 2:09 pm

I had an interesting interaction with Pinker some years back. He was originally in the drugs cause drug addiction school.

I told him that was nonsense. People take pain relievers to relieve pain. We went around on that and at some point either he or I gave up.

Some years later I find he changed his mind and adopted my position.

He is a pretty sharp guy. But in that particular interchange I was not too impressed. Although the fact that he changed his mind eventually is a positive.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

DeNihilist https://bandanablog.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/you-can-take-it-back-consent-as-a-felt-sense/ While not a serious legal arguement I find this is how these things get started. It’s is a germ of an idea that will gain traction within the FI. Given that YMY still requires unambiguous affimative statements from the woman, and given how much they hate that sort of thing, the ability to withdraw consent at a later time will be a weapon to continue to beat men with. Best of all is this plays into the old “all PIV is rape” nonsense. When viewed from the standpoint that consent is never assured if it can withdrawn retroactively… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“People take pain relievers to relieve pain.”

I used to have a friend who spent 20 years as a drug counselor, after 20 years as a junkie. He could do a fairly comprehensive write up on someone simply by asking them what their drug of choice was. It told him what their pain was.

M Simon
6 years ago

Badpainter
July 2nd, 2015 at 2:27 pm

As for The American Law Institute this will continue until such time as we allow the hunting of lawyers for sport.

LMAO

kfg
July 2nd, 2015 at 2:32 pm

Thanks!

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Freethinker comes in here playing checkers when Rollo is playing chess, lol. Hey Freethinker, you can have all the man ass you want. Who cares? But to claim that the nature of sexual attraction is completely socially constructed flies in the face of so much literature and valid research, I’m not going to bother with a cite. Just Google it and read the dozens of hits you’ll get that make this clear. Instead, tell us, how is it going for you? Is masturbation and bestiality (you claim some animals are fun too) making you as happy as sinking your cock… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

BP – HOLY FUCK!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Whoa. Wtf? @Vulpine, you are the man. I agree with 90% of what you are saying wrt ” pussy “. The bj thing is fucking priceless. A thinking/sexual man. Go ahaead and do the damn thing! Yet, Freethinker is hitting some undeniable points, although he is stating preferences as absolutes. HB10’s are a changeable concept. Anyone recall rubenesque women being all the rage? One man’s “5” is another man’s “9”, and that is how it should be. But the want of pussy being the same as sugar craving? That’s where the wheels fall off of the wagon. If someone lacks… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@freethinker Beauty is learned, not innate. And yet you’ve failed utterly to argue against the fact that I’ve had “Stop being shallow!” hammered in to my head since childhood, but I still can’t (not won’t; can’t) get aroused by women regarded as overweight or generally (as in pretty much throughout all societies) regarded as ugly. Seriously, if you’re going to make this claim, then have some way to account for those of us that have lived in a First World feminist bubble our whole lives yet still find fat and/or conventionally ugly women unattractive. If a guy was a Blue… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Blaximus HB10’s are a changeable concept. Anyone recall rubenesque women being all the rage? Rubenesque women were never as widely popular as modern women have wished they were. Firstly, the artist the term is coined after was only drawing such women around the last decade of his life. Second, there weren’t a plethora of other artists around the same time making the same figures a subject of their paintings. Third, his figures were not as grotesquely huge as women these days try to make them out to be: Yes, there have always been men that like that body type, but… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Badpainter One is a very nice, very sweet young gal with a plain but sort of cute face very pleasant to work with, and a good worker. But she’s about 70lbs overweight. Makes me a bit sad. I know that feeling. So many women in the South like that. My friends and I call them LWBHs: Lose Weight, Be Hot. There was a time when I tried dating a couple who had started working out seriously so I figured “Oh hey, she’ll get rid of the weight and be hot. I’ll get in the door now.” Yeah, not so much.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

When he was 53 Rubens married a 16 year old chubbo, who he based his later painting on. I strongly suspect he accepted the chubbo part in order to get the 16 part.

Botticelli’s Venus is lean enough to show a two pack.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@kfg

Exactly. He was letting her youth override her weight. His hamster did the rest.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@Sun, I was gonna say a few words about beauty and social constructs. Then I clicked on the link for Tess Holiday. … you wrong for that man. Daaayyyuuuuummmm that’s so wrong. *gathers self* Okay, imo, Tess is a fetish type pursuit for those who are into that. I don’t think average dudes are chasing that ( gigantic ) tail. I’m not one of the ” value her for her personality ” types, but your comment about having ( bullshit ) messages pounded into your head strikes home. My position is that men need to decide for themselves what they… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Blaximus

But beauty is a social construct, and the social constructs of the day are telling me she’s a supermodel! She’s hot! How could you possibly not enjoy that?! 😀

Tell you what, I’ll make it up to you. You’re welcome.

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

HB10’s are a changeable concept. Anyone recall rubenesque women being all the rage?

If I found myself on an island with Tess! What do you think I do?
Well, I’ll do her only to be interrupted by swimming to a passing ship.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

LOL. Thanks Sun. That bleach washed all of the cellulite out of my eyes!!

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo You know it wasn’t until I came here that I realized I’ve had a tendency to date non-whites most of my life. I don’t insist on one type, but certain types seem more likely to respond well to me. It’s not so much a conscious choice (in fact my ex was the only woman I’ve ever considered marrying seriously, and she was blonde-haired, blue eyed, and white like me; it was close enough I got occasionally asked if I was her brother or dad) as that’s just what I consistently have luck with despite trying pretty much all types… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Men will ‘fetishize’ their attraction cues based on what their own SMV will attract them in women. Thus you get guys who “prefer” fatties (who are the easiest lays), black women, asian women, single mommies, goth girls, etc. However the stats Ogas and Gaddam reveal show these are the exceptions to the rule. Men prefer women who look young and fertile ” Agreed. In my particular case, I’m just attracted to women as a whole ( ..or as a hole??). Asian women I’ve bedded have told me I’m attracted to asian girls exclusively. I’ve heard same from all ”… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Johnycomelately Good comment. “Such is the control that today women have even legally mandated the protection of overt sexual displays and who is even allowed to Lek in the presence of a sexual display (sexual harassment laws or better yet, alpha fuck laws). Despite the universal knowledge of the male limbic response to female sexual displays the undesirable male is meant to sublimate his arousal, he must avert his gaze and not even look, leering is sexual harassment.” Yohami once wrote that a difficulty women face with their sexual power is that it’s difficult to direct it correctly – to… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@Sun,

Interesting.

Play to your strengths young man.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

“Women have far more static, far more specific standards in their physical arousal triggers for men. The muscular male sexual ideal for women hasn’t changed for millennia”

And why would it? Especially considering current success of hypergamy? Women have no reason to socially adapt. Their side of the sexual dynamic is currently more satisfied. However current widespread male frustration undoubtedly threatens the success of hypergamy at some point.

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