The New Paternity

The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes from disenchantment.

Law 32, The 48 Laws of Power, Robert Greene

I was reminded of this quote as I listened to a woman talk over me on the Pat Campbell show a couple weeks ago. I’ve written several essays regarding the uglier aspects of Paternity and by discussing them I’ve discovered that the evolved realities of how men and women regard paternity is always a touchy subject. I’ve given a lot of thought as to why this is recently.

Before I dig into why I want to throw out a quick caveat. I’m likely going to make people uncomfortable with this. A lot of ego investment is involved in our sexual strategies and the beliefs that underpin them. That means when someone is critical of them it’s hard not to take it as an attack. Robert Greene was right, anger does follow disenchantment when you strip the veneer off beliefs you built a lifestyle on. Just know my intent here is not to attack anyone with what follows. I only want to explore some sensitive material.

As of this writing I’m half way through reading the book, Promiscuity by Tim Birkhead. If you’re a Red Pill evo-psych wonk like me I highly recommend it, but be prepared. If you still cling to comforting Blue Pill idealism about monogamy this material will challenge your presumptions about the nature of men and women’s sexual strategies. It’s a clinical, evolutionary, exploration of the mechanics of promiscuity in animals, however, it explains a lot of unpleasant truths about men and women. What I’ve read thus far confirms a lot of what the Red Pill has been considering for almost two decades now, and this is the objectuve stuff critics like to paint as “negativity”.

If you lean towards the nihilism of the so-called Black Pill this book will give you all the fodder you need to sink deeper into your coma of hopelessness – so be warned. Personally, I’ve found it fascinating and it’s pulling threads for me that I didn’t even know needed unraveling. However, in doing so, just my voicing the mechanics of how promiscuity is intertwined with men’s existential fear of paternity is enough to get me into trouble with people who’d rather not think about such things. Both libertine hedonists and virtuous conservatives will have a problem with the questions the book asks.

Men and women’s sexual strategies are fundamentally antagonistic towards the other.

A long time ago I was asked to write a post about whether I believed Game was Adversarial. And while I don’t think Game necessarily needs to be adversarial (seduction requires a willing participant), the existential fears of men and women are at odds with the other.

Men’s biological, masculine, imperative is to spread the seed – unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. Men’s compulsion for pornography (over centuries actually) is the most obvious confirmation of this. I’ve made this observation a few times before; men’s sexual strategy, as a result of our biology, is inherently ‘r‘ selected. Because men can potentially reproduce thousands of times per ejaculation, and because men’s investment costs is far lower than women’s in reproduction, men’s most pragmatic, inherent strategy is an innate drive for unlimited access to unlimited sexuality.

Women’s sexual strategy is inherently ‘K‘ selection because women’s reproductive investment costs are so high. Gestation, nurturing, provisioning and protection of offspring are a few of the evolutionary imperatives driving women’s innate sexual strategy. Thus, Hypergamy becomes a woman’s prime directive in that strategy. For most of a woman’s life she is the sexual selector while the male is the performer. This selection priority changes as a woman’s sexual market value decays and a man’s value increases, or as defined by her circumstances, but the innate presumption that ‘men perform, women choose’ is the evolved framework in play.

But women’s sexual strategy is dualistic in nature. Women are far more promiscuous than most men would idealistically like to believe. Women evolved to consolidate reproductively on the best genetic potential in men and the best parental investment potential. In the Red Pill we euphemistically refer to this dynamic as Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This is the foundation of women’s sexual strategy; ideally pairing in the long term with a man who definitively satisfies both sides of the Hypergamous equation.

The main themes in Promiscuity are sperm competition, the prevalence (and concealment) of female promiscuity (men’s is pretty well expected) and the evolutionary expediency cuckoldry. All of these themes are considered in animals ranging from worms to human beings, but also in respect to general evolutionary function in these themes. My interest in this stems from how it relates to a Red Pill understanding of intersexual dynamics.

My first consideration: sperm competition is a highly contested theory and I’m not a microbiologist. People have a variety of ego invested beliefs riding on whether theories hold up on either side of the sperm war debate. This is a contentious arena of science that’s had social influences try to cover up inconvenient truths or redirect focuses to avoid unraveling those ego-investments. I’m laying this out here because I have no doubt critics will try to dismiss even the questions that point to ugly truths that don’t align with their ideals.

That said, there are many interesting evidences that imply an evolved function in sperm competition. For instance, there are studies showing that men who return to a pair bonded woman after a long separation tend to produce more ejaculate and higher sperm count when they copulate after that separation. This then dovetails into another theory; in the case of multiple male copulations with a female, the last male to copulate with her tends to be the one to successfully conceive with her. If you’re interested in the hard evidence for why human beings are not naturally monogamous, this is your book. Monogamy is a social adaptation that has the latent function of (ostensibly) ensuring male paternity.

Most of the concepts surrounding sperm competition point to one thing – sperm competition in men evolved as a contingency to women’s sexual selection process and their need for concealed promiscuity to pragmatically effect it. As I said, men and women’s sexual strategies are antagonistic towards the other. When one’s evolved interests gains the dominant position the other adapts a contingency. In a Red Pill perspective I see the advent of Game in the age of mass communication as one of those contingencies. There are many others older than Game though.

All of this points to the fundamentals I outlined in Sexual Selection & The Existential Fear: insuring paternity is men’s evolutionary prime directive, even at the biological level. Women’s cuckoldry of men (in its various forms) is an evolutionary adaptation to insure that women’s sexual strategy – ultimately unlimited access to the best genetics and the best provisioning – supersedes men’s strategy. Socially enforced monogamy is also a strategic positioning of men’s reproductive greater good; though, in today’s sexual marketplace, that old advantage has become a crippling liability for men. Legally enforced monogamy (i.e. marriage in its various forms) has been transitioned to an insurance of women’s provisioning needs.

This is the nuts & bolts of the antagonistic nature of out competing sexual strategies. However, in later stages it is in our evolutionary best interests to parentally invest in our offspring. For men this entails the risky prospects of investing in children they didn’t sire. The antagonism between intersexual strategies is more easily observed before pair bonding (in your single days) in a couple, but these strategy conflicts persist into the formation of a long term relationship. The Red Pill adage, “Marriage is no insulation from Hypergamy” has never been more accurate.

Ideally, a pair bond would be found in a long term union of a man and a woman where the compromising of either’s sexual strategy serves to ensure the survival of the offspring created by the two. As I’ve always said, men and women are better together than we are apart, but nature, it seems, prepares us for a less than mutually beneficial union. We have evolved reproductive failsafes that are influential in our belief sets.

The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other 
gender must compromise or abandon its own.

This is an important maxim to keep in mind here. Even when a loving couple consciously prioritizes their relationship, parenting and family above their visceral natures, that nature pragmatically adapted for a conflict between strategies. In The New Polyandry I proposed that in our present gynocentric social order. women’s sexual strategy is the socially preeminent one. That is to say, we are taught to consider the fulfillment and support of women’s sexual strategy to be the ‘correct’ one for both sexes to prioritize.

On the surface this seems like the most progressive, socially stabilizing strategy to follow. Who’s going to argue against family creation being the foundation of a functioning society? We’re conditioned to think that fulfilling women’s strategy should also be men’s priority because it serves this noble end – family creation – but there’s a lot more to it than what we’re expected to focus on.

In contrast, men’s sexual strategy and even the idea that men’s interests would be a consideration, is demonized in gynocentric society. As a result men’s adaptive strategies are manifested covertly in other ways.

Provider Dads

Prior to the Sexual Revolution a woman having a child out of wedlock was scandalous. The stigma of becoming a single mother was something of a deterrent against the worst effects of women’s Hypergamous nature. Social and religious mores were a check and balance against ‘illegitimate’ births and incomplete families.

Today 40% of children are born out of wedlock. All the stigma of the prior generations have been replaced with women embracing single motherhood as a badge of honor. On a social scale heroism replaced shame, and women laid claim to a right to motherhood irrespective of whether a father was present or even necessary in the formation of a family. Child rearing shifted from a marriage based model to a child support based model.

This Fathers Day the predictable denigration of negative biological father caricatures versus the noble step-father ‘manning up’ to save a single mother’s family were in full effect on Twitter. In a post-SexRev world, in a gynocentric society, the (Beta) male who consolidates and fulfills a woman’s sexual strategy by accepting the parental investment responsibilities of another man’s children is lauded as a hero.

And that’s the connection I’m making in reading Promiscuity; women’s sexual strategy is the socially preeminent one in an era that’s expanded a local sexual marketplace to a global one. Unfettered Hypergamy, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks free from consequence, is what has defined our gender narrative since the late 60s, but in doing so it’s cunningly raised 2-3 generations of men to seeing their participation in women’s reproductive imperatives as a form of Game. In Beta Game and the Adaptations series I outlined how men will adapt social and behavioral contingencies to improve their chances of reproduction (getting laid). Men will readily adopt new methodologies to meet new reproductive challenges presented to them by women. However, there is also an adaptive, self-convinced, belief set that results from the conditioning presented to men in that adaption.

A prime illustration of this ‘programming’ just occurred last weekend. In this era Father’s Day has become an occasion to lift up single motherhood to reinforce the idea that a mother is the only parent necessary in the development of a well rounded child-to-adult. We no longer celebrate fathers. Instead we hold up single mothers and by association the heroic men who “stepped up and became a better father than any biological father was willing to be.” These heartwarming tales of the dutiful Beta who assumed the parental investment responsibilities of irresponsible or abusive ‘biological fathers’ abound on Fathers Day.

This narrative serves two purposes; first, it reinforces the blamelessness of the single mother’s complicity in bearing the children of the horrible biological father. At the same time it builds her up as a wise matron for choosing the dutiful Beta who was willing to fulfill the parental investment / provisioning role that the biological (Alpha) father would not.

Secondly, it reinforces the social convention that prompts Beta men to see fulfilling that role as a means to his own reproduction. The gynocentric social order loudly broadcast, across all forms of media, the idea that men who assume the parental investment responsibilities of other men – men who single mothers chose to breed with – are the highest form of hero. The provider “dad” to celebrate far above that of the male who only provided his sperm is the necessary element to maintaining Hypergamy as the socially correct sexual strategy.

I’ve proposed in the past that women no longer look for, nor expect to find, the man who best embodies the ideal aspects of Alpha Seed and Beta Need. There are only two types of men in the global sexual marketplace: the man women wish to reproduce with and the men women wish to be the provider of their security with. As social media and a feminine-primary social consciousness expands this distinction between Cad and Dad becomes more defined. In response to this reproductive reality men willingly settle into these roles as an adaptive sexual strategy.

Strategic Pluralism Theory

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

from Why Is Muscularity Sexy? Tests of the Fitness Indicator Hypothesis

Men today are adapting to the New Polyandry by adopting the role and the rewards inherent in accepting themselves as either breeder or provider male.

This is the new Beta Game then; forgive and absolve a single mother of her sexual strategy and the consequences of it if it means a higher likelihood of reproducing with her in the future. The price for potentially siring offspring with a single mother is assuming the parental investment responsibilities of a (Alpha) man who can exercise his own sexual strategy successfully. For some men this entails the risk of never passing on his genes to the next generation. It means the man we are supposed to hate on Fathers Day will have his genetic legacy ensured by the same Beta males who vilify him at the expense of their own reproduction.

When I’ve made these ugly facts apparent to men and women on Twitter I’m told how callous I am for viewing things so viscerally. “I think it’s noble for a guy to adopt a single mother’s children” is the basic idea. But why do we believe this is a noble, humane, act on the part of a man?

Just 60 years ago single mothers were to be avoided. Providing for ‘bastard’ children was a shame until the Brady Bunch made the idea a bit more popular. Now we hold up being a supportive step-dad above the status of an actual biological father. Why?

Because our social order has successfully convince 2-3 generations (in only 60 years) that fulfilling a woman’s sexual imperatives is the highest good a man can do in his life.

This is one example of how our feminine-primary social order effects women’s sexual strategy (and life strategies) in a societal scope. Mothers provide sexual access to the Beta Provider who completes her reproductive imperatives sometimes at the cost of his own reproductive interests.

In the next essay in this series I’ll be exploring another “new” social convention that effects women’s reproductive imperatives.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Youngmaster
theasdgamer made a comment that to me was an implication claiming luck has nothing to do with natural selection, which is wrong.
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Speaking of luck….

wahoo Mcdaniels
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Centuries, you would be surprised at how well all three of these men would get along IRL.

Of course each of them (Blax ,Scrib and ASD) would be asked to sit as chair for their own fire topic.

Centuries
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Wahoo – I may need to bring many bags of marshmallows to roast and some beverages for the chaired sessions

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One more time: speaking of luck…

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@Youngmaster

Suggestion: drop the word “luck” for describing random processes. It is an ambiguous term.

Palmasailor
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So the challenge for older men is how not to get cucked because there are always children with desirable women. I do it by batting everything back “that’s something his dad should deal with”. Sometimes they come back with “his dads an arsehole” My reply “he can’t be that bad, you fucked him” As a side note it’s quite amazing how many times I feel sorry for an ex husband during a date with his ex wife. Plenty of times I’d rather have kicked the woman out and go for a beer with the bloke and talk shit than spend… Read more »

IAS
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@Palma: solid analysis of the situation you find yourself in. Why do you say “eternal player” or “serial monogamist” (9 to 12 months) aren’t ideal solutions? What do you think you are missing out on on either of those scenarios? If you “can get it on your terms”, I think there is another set of scenarios available if you are good enough and want it: get an under 30s girl without kids, and either ride her out (for more than 9 to 12 months) until she gets the baby rabies, or (if you want it) get her pregnant and be… Read more »

ex-cartoonist
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@ Rollo Another great essay. One of the things I appreciate about your approach is how clinical it is. It really helps to read about men’s and women’s sexual strategy in the context of evolutionary biology and psychology, using rational, dispassionate language. (Well, mostly.) You see, I struggle with an intense disgust towards womankind. I used to have the Blue Pill idea that women were intrinsically ‘better’ than men, but now the pendulum has swung right to the other side. I judge them, not for hypergamy, but for their insistence on holding men to standards they themselves have no intention… Read more »

palmasailor
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@IAS

Define the life of a player as you see it then answer your own questions.

kfg
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@AR: ” . . . drop the word “luck” for describing random processes.” The Young master might be presumed to be young and in any case is inexperienced in this forum. While I chose to highlight the strange nature of ASD’s premise and replace “luck” with “an element of randomness,” Youngmaster chose to engage more directly using ASD’s own terminology. When the premise (evolution is “luck,” not biology) is so strange it’s not even wrong (I mean, seriously, WTF?) a certain amount of confusion is likely to ensue. See your own meme. I’m sure that Youngmaster would not use the… Read more »

carandiru
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the answer is mgtow. fuck the best women you can get and run

ScribblerG
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@KFG and Wahoo – Red Pill camping and hunting trip? I’m in. That doesn’t sound gay as fuck. As for Blax and me? My guess is Blax doesn’t think about me that much or really care. I’m the same with him. And let me clarify something, which should be clear from my comments. My objections to Blax were based on two things. One, there was a time when every post here elicited storytelling from Blax which reflected his “natural alpha” blindness. It got old for me, and was tedious and came off as braggadocious to me. I felt his alphaness… Read more »

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This obsession with not dating women with kids in the manoshpere is badly thought out in the context of the realistic dating options of most older men. They’re a fact of life with any semi sane woman over a certain age, but getting yourself cucked is a different matter. Palmasailor, I’m basically in agreement with you here…if a woman has reached 35-40 and has never been married or had any kids, probably a high probability there is something really wrong. That said, my limited experience dating women with kids indicates it comes with a whole host of challenges that complicate… Read more »

disgruntledearthling
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@ex-cartoonist but if we want a sexual relationship with a woman, it actually works better to regard her as a kind of high-functioning wild animal? You probably won’t get any agreement on this from the OMG here, but as an OSG this is what I do. I’m very fond of my live-in gf/ex-SB, but I purposely keep her at an emotional distance. In my old BP days I would have completely abandoned myself to her in a BP fantasy world. This attitude is somewhat depressing (not the actual word I’m looking for but close) to me but my RP self… Read more »

wahoo Mcdaniels
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Centuries, you will find that men past 50 are set in their ways politically and philosophically and they love to push and prod each other over those beliefs. It keeps us sharp.

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Palmasailor, just read your other comment AFTER I posted… In practice this approach means that every relation with a woman times out as ultimately she wants a man to move in with. This means she can step off the gas and access my (his) resources, both financial and paternal. If you hang out in the right areas you can find older women that are so well provisioned by their exes that they won’t re marry or co habit. These are easier to get hold of than you may think if you’re either a broke pool boy or have your shit… Read more »

theasdgamer
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To kfg and ym: I’m sorry if you all have reading comprehension problems. When I say ‘luck’, I mean ‘luck’, not random or pseudo-random processes. I gave examples of luck and if you refuse to understand them, it’s your problem. You can find all kinds of misleading terminology on the web, including at university geology dept. websites describing NS as a mechanism (ludicrous, NS is simply a filter which can filter out good genes as well as bad genes) and describing selection ‘pressures’ (because pressure = force/area, so where is the area and what is the force?). Silly, misleading shit.… Read more »

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My take is that if you haven’t managed to pairbond and contain a red pill existence (like most of the OMG’s in here are managing to do) with a long term partner then by mid life we need to take our female companionship on our own terms. If we can’t get it on those terms, go without until we can. +10,000 One thing I was happy about in my most recent situation is basically being willing and able to simply walk away when I wasn’t getting what I wanted on my own terms. After about 9 months of really intense… Read more »

wahoo Mcdaniels
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Scrib, being served by a generous woman is one of my blue pill fantasies, something I grew accustomed to in my youth. It would take years to train the girls for outdoor service,hell you barely get indoor service now.

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@Morpheus At our age 9 months is about the limit. If they don’t have kids and are sub about 42 they’ll be flat out wanting kids so pick your poison. “Interestingly, after about 2 months of being broken up and basically zero contact, in just the last week this woman has been texting me again, and mentioning going back to friends and hanging out” = she’s been dating a nice guy herb that bores the shit out of her. Provided you end it properly in a non needy way, tell her that she’s a great girl and deserves to be… Read more »

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@morpheus “Funny thing is AFTER WE ENDED THE RELATIONSHIP, she called me 3 days later and said “Hey, come over, let’s have sex”. I went over and fucked her but in the meantime I had changed my FB status…she discovered that a day or two after which led to the mother of all blowups, and I truly was done with all the insane drama at that point.” NO NO NO – DO NOT BE DONE WITH THE DRAMA. This is your new normal and needs to be handled. She’s soft nexting you in an attempt to gain exclusivity. Don’t do… Read more »

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With regards to those who do not understand what Youngmaster was getting at I’d point to the creation of the Ocicat breed of cats. The first breeder of Ocicats was Virginia Daly, of Berkley, Michigan, who attempted to breed an Abyssinian-pointed Siamese in 1964. The first generation of kittens appeared Abyssinian, but the result in the second generation was not only the Abyssinian-pointed Siamese but also a spotted kitten, Tonga, nicknamed an “ocicat” by the breeder’s daughter. Tonga was neutered and sold as a pet, but further breedings of his parents produced more spotted kittens, and became the basis of… Read more »

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“You see, I struggle with an intense disgust towards womankind. I used to have the Blue Pill idea that women were intrinsically ‘better’ than men, but now the pendulum has swung right to the other side. I judge them, not for hypergamy, but for their insistence on holding men to standards they themselves have no intention of living up to. ” You gotta work on becoming your own “mental point of origin” as Rollo often states, when one is outward focusing on the action of others instead of the actions of oneself it’s a good indication you aren’t fully your… Read more »

having a bad day
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@Morpheus

I went over and fucked her but in the meantime I had changed my FB status…she discovered that a day or two after which led to the mother of all blowups, and I truly was done with all the insane drama at that point.

please explain this… i think this might be the key to understanding the situ… include timelines if possible…

+1 on Palmasailor’s advice… drama = shit test… you need to pass those to get back to desire sex…

good luck!

having a bad day
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@Morpheus

also, were you priming the pipeline (so to speak) and spinning up some other plates… or did you just coast along with Single Mom ™ as the easy way to satisfy that itch?…

good luck!

LawDog
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Palmasailor and Morpheus — Those comments were great, and a discussion of what I was asking about. I think you’re both right, in that eventually the relationships you form with single mothers have an expiration date. Sooner or later the woman is going to want to move in, and bring her coterie of accessories with her. At least for me, that’s a no-go. It’s good to hear others with similar experiences. The Red Pill is great, and wonderful, and frankly should be required reading for every high school male in this country. But for those of us who found it… Read more »

ScribblerG
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So, this blowup with 21Con and the other aspects of the manosphere made clear that my rage at the manosphere is based on reality. But what I’ve been doing is unleashing it here, and perhaps that’s not the best approach. I think that we do some really stupid things that don’t serve men in the manoshpere. I think many charlatans seek ego gratification or monetization by creating “followerships” in which men are passively seeking “secret codes” to hack the game of being a man. The gamer mentality, the shortcut mentality, the get rich quick, the “secret to success” hustle. Not… Read more »

SJF
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@Wahoo, Scribbs Wahoo comes up with what he needs in terms of loot and organizational support, we could start a discord server to do all this. Real underground shit. No press. Could invite women too, and instead of having the 22Con for them, they can cook and organize and make the camp nice. And have their own sessions. And maybe we have a wet tee shirt contest after the beer and weed starts flowing? Hehe… My buddies and I are in the business (non-profit) of hanging out with groups of guys. Several of us own wildlife habitat farms. We maintain… Read more »

Palmasailor
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@scribs

Sounds like you’re commenting with an empty sack now..

😉

j
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“Never date a single mom is just not realistic for a 45 year old man.

I’m always interested in how others deal with that problem”

They date younger chicks without kids.

foxguy
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” I think many charlatans seek ego gratification or monetization by creating “followerships” in which men are passively seeking “secret codes” to hack the game of being a man. The gamer mentality, the shortcut mentality, the get rich quick, the “secret to success” hustle. Not just the money but the entire idea that “success” in life exists outside of your mind and self. This seeking encourages “thirst”, not self-ownership.” 100% ScribblerG, it’s why superhero movies are so popular with the younger millennial crowd, the superhero usually gets his power without much hard work via some shortcut like Captain America or… Read more »

ScribblerG
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@Disgruntled – I co-sign your comment on the emotional distance in an RP informed relationship. It felt vacant at a certain point. But then I realized this was just more Blue Pill thinking, longing for the romance and chivalry that I was raised on. Despite walking directly into the meat grinder of it all. Those beliefs were baked into me in a traditional world that I caught the tail end of. I remember holding doors at 7yo in stores for women while shopping w my Mom and the approval I got from doing so. With my Mom passing at age… Read more »

kfg
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“. . . if we want a sexual relationship with a woman, it actually works better to regard her as a kind of high-functioning wild animal?” More like judge her with the same expectations you would judge a wild animal. Empirically, without a morality filter, as a matter of identifying it. Note, however, that a lack of disgust for leopards for being what they are does not mean you should give up poking it with a pointy stick if it tries to be a leopard all over your ass. Just because humans are the natural prey of leopards doesn’t mean… Read more »

Blaximus
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Never pedestalize any woman, young or ” old “.

I think that’s a message that needs much more reinforcement ( pua mentality exempted of course ).

ScribblerG
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@Palma – Nah, my sack is too full actually. I just became all needy with this incredibly hot 23yo and fucked it up due to thirst, lol. Gaming switch – back on! And I’m rusty. I’ll sharpen that sword. What happened here is what I said. I was misdirecting my anger here, to no good end. This 21Con thing woke me up to that, and how I wasn’t being the contribution I know I can be. I’m still a fucking asshole, don’t worry, but will pick my shots more carefully and be about advancing the community and dialog not taking… Read more »

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20 June 2019: SCOTUS: Maryland Cross War Memorial Is Permitted on Public Lands > I am so happy about this; as I was the individual who invented the concept of Crucifixion as a method of punishing all masculine, Christian beasts who failed to pay homage unto Me! Thus the decision will keep fresh in the Collective Conscious the potential costs of disobedience! Loading...

disgruntledearthling
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@kfg It is part of your nature to poke women with the pointy stick of “no.” Understanding the nature of women will allow you to do so with the correct accuracy, at the correct location, at the correct time. So true. And they seem to appreciate it. Recently my gf has gotten mixed up with CO$, despite my best efforts to show her it is a money-grabbing cult. The people there offered her a “contract” to be a ‘staff’ member (essentially a slave) for 2.5 years in exchange for ‘free’ course. I flatly said no, you will not do this… Read more »

Morpheus
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@Palma Thanks for the reply. Good stuff DO NOT take her out anywhere or do any boyfriend type activities. I think this is where I messed up with the last one, way too many “boyfriend” type activities which allowed her to run with the possibility of it becoming more. “Interestingly, after about 2 months of being broken up and basically zero contact, in just the last week this woman has been texting me again, and mentioning going back to friends and hanging out” = she’s been dating a nice guy herb that bores the shit out of her. Hmmmm….so former… Read more »

Razorwire
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@Palma/Morph Great comment re: 40’s men in the SMP. My experience jives. Though I have managed to avoid single mothers, i have danced with many in the 35-45+ range. Pick your poison. All of them are angling for resources. Something close to none of them understand what a high value man really wants, how to bring that to the table, and the magnitude of their implied “ask”. They still operate like they are the prize because vagina even though reality is pinging back at them hard. Most are still (shocking lol) trying to sex their way into a relationship, even… Read more »

das monde
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It is not meaningful to talk about r/K-selection of sexes. (Isn’t successful hypergamy r-insatiable?) The hypergamy discipline basically delegates reproduction sizing to alpha males, so that they would determine r/K-selection mode for the species.

Morpheus
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I’ll write a longer post on it over at field reports when I get a beer later.

@Palma, looking forward to it!

Morpheus
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also, were you priming the pipeline (so to speak) and spinning up some other plates… or did you just coast along with Single Mom ™ as the easy way to satisfy that itch?… HABD, TBH, it was the latter for a number of reasons and I’ll include the timeline here as well. One, it was really, really easy low-hanging fruit. I didn’t have to “work for it” basically at all. We started purely as friends around Feb-Mar 2018, and she made a move on me that I shut down for a number of reasons. The second time I was in… Read more »

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“I would say that once you get to into the 2 to 3 SD outlier males, their sperm becomes more valuable than even the very best eggs. Being in possession of high quality baby batter is a VERY valuable position since it can be used to inseminate MANY females at basically no cost.” would love to know about the real choices of stakeholders in various industries. like if your warehouse, farm lab, germ lab etc was on fire and could only grab one which would it be “There is a reason that owners of mares pay a stud fee to… Read more »

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palmasailor
Even the most strident feminist fishes start to look very hard for a decent pre owned bicycle to ride at precisely the time that most decent pre owned bicycles realise they don’t want to be ridden by a smelly old fish.

Funniest bit of truth I’ve read in weeks. Makes me miss the old Spearhead..

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ex-cartoonist

You see, I struggle with an intense disgust towards womankind.

You’ve switched from pedestalizing women to judging them as if they were men.
This is totally normal. It is just part of the process of unplugging.

Now work on seeing women as they are. Not as goddesses above you, not as defective men, but as creatures that are different from you yet complementary.

Don’t get stuck in the anger / disgust phase, it’s not a good place to be mentally.

IAS
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@Morpheus: probably you can take it to the FR section but yes she is giving you an opening into her… openings.

If you play it right you could likely bang her again, not so sure if you could play it into banging her again and avoid drama.

My intuition is to say nope on the movie but invite her over for a meal at your place. If she comes take her to bed (Palma style). Going to the movie is bf stuff, so she is again pushing you into that direction.

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Blaximus
Never pedestalize any woman, young or ” old “.

Because They Are All Girls as some man once wrote here…


I think that’s a message that needs much more reinforcement ( pua mentality exempted of course ).

I dunno about that. Watching the trajectory of RooshV and some others, I spy with my little eye mistakes like “NAWALT / Quality Woman”.

O.B.I.T.
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The Brady Bunch was a key cultural milestone, as Rollo rightly suggests — and the wife’s status interestingly was far from clear. As a Brady Bunch fan site points out,

“We learn in the first episode that Mike’s wife passed away. However, the absence of Carol’s first husband remains a mystery. Sherwood Schwartz, the creator of the show, wanted her to be divorced. The network wanted her to be a widow, thought being divorced was too risque for the times. The compromise was that it was never addressed one way or the other.”

kobayashii1681
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Brilliant article!

JRH, Esq.
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When I’ve made these ugly facts apparent to men and women on Twitter I’m told how callous I am for viewing things so viscerally. “I think it’s noble for a guy to adopt a single mother’s children” is the basic idea. It’s true, it’s 100% a noble sacrifice of that man’s earning power and time to invest in another man’s child. But that does not also mean that this noble man is not simultaneously 100% a chump. Cads and unmarried moms get to soak up all the chumps that they can sign up for daddy duty, and all you have… Read more »

Fact
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Hypothetical for discussion. What if your wife becomes infertile before you have chance to have a child together? Divorce and start over with another woman? Are there ever any cases where adoption would be considered option?

having a bad day
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@Morpheus We had agreed to be monogamous … lol… condoms or not, reasons don’t matter to her hindbrain… she was f*king you into her orbit… and do you see how ‘condoms’ was a shit test?… So I had kept a Bumble account open the entire time but had told her I had closed all my online dating accounts. She discovered the Bumble account and was quite crafty in “busting me”. kind of like if you were married/ltr?…lol… bc that’s the vibe in play here… the CONCEPT of spinning plates is NOT negotiable… IF you want to maintain AF status/desire sex…… Read more »

Palmasailor
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@Razorwire / Morpheus / Lawdog / all older daters I was going to re post Razorwire, but he’s on point with every single entry so it’ll look like a shrine with so many +1’s In no particular order, and I’ve probably missed god knows how many things here: The thing to bear in mind is that the territory has changed. Most women have entered all their relationships holding the frame, and used the hole between their legs (or the fantasy of action with the hole between their legs) to get what they want from the men around them for decades.… Read more »

theasdgamer
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“I truly was done with all the insane drama at that point.”

NO NO NO – DO NOT BE DONE WITH THE DRAMA.”

shit, I’ve been saying this for years…dealing with drama is just part of relationship maintenance…I think I have a post about relationship maintenance somewhere on my site…drama, tingles, comfort, and validation are all needed in a relationship–which one at any given time depends on a woman’s signals…

SJB
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@Rollo – that’s from where I copied Cooper’s quote.

I’ve been thinking, lately, about “performance”; the combination of the two sentences mentioned above helped clarify — a bit like looking at an object in the distance at night: scanning the edges of the object gives a better image than staring directly at it.

Palmasailor
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@IAS “My intuition is to say nope on the movie but invite her over for a meal at your place.” You’re half right. No to the movie. No to a meal. You’re not providing value to her in order to get sex as a reward, she has to provide value to you (sex) in order to get value (intimacy) from you. The visit is for sex – she gives before you do. She can take it or leave it. Definitely cook AFTER the sex, but don’t even mention it before. Do it because you are hungry and she can be… Read more »

Palmasailor
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@Fact

I’ve seen adoption play out, they’ll never admit they regret it but so far it always seems to be a colossal mistake for many many reasons.

j
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“You’re not providing value to her in order to get sex as a reward, she has to provide value to you (sex) in order to get value (intimacy) from you”

NOW you’re getting it 😉

Razorwire
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@palma et al “If some chad had gone around and had done the job properly you’d be fucked” These are the RP nuggets that need to be kept in mind when waxing on in our minds about the post mortem. Not mine, just my turn, and all that. Like a stripmall face tattoo, nothing is as effective to drive home these points as becoming the other man, the counter-party to the wicked backroom trades of the female sexual strategy. I take no pleasure in seeing a decent man get his neck stretched by a rope of his own thirsty making.… Read more »

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@Palma I don’t think that “the mother of all blowups” was a shit test, I think that it was an impotent white rage at a realisation of her loss of power. At the end of the day, her hamster observes how you react and where your MPoO is. So for all practical purposes, it was a shit test (not a flirty one, true). Just like with a kid that resorts to threats and tantrums (btw you better ask how you got there). See it for what it is. What happens if you fail a number of tests over the course… Read more »

j
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@IRL “I’m not hers, it’s just her turn. There, FIFY” This is only if HE got to the point where he was bored of fucking her. If he wasn’t and she stopped texting him back all of a sudden (met someone else), he can’t just lie to himself with “it was just her turn” hehe. The original quote, is so guys can cope with the fact that she may drop you at any moment for whatever reason. Don’t be so fucking invested in one girl. To the point where you sperge out all over the place asking, “how can I… Read more »

theasdgamer
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“This is only if HE got to the point where he was bored of fucking her. If he wasn’t and she stopped texting him back all of a sudden (met someone else), he can’t just lie to himself with “it was just her turn” hehe.”

Not this.

If you have hand…if the girl is chasing you, then it’s just her turn. That’s how it works when you are a master. But you ought not fool yourself into thinking that you have hand if you don’t.

Blaximus
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😅 wha???

theasdgamer
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““You’re not providing value to her in order to get sex as a reward, she has to provide value to you (sex) in order to get value (intimacy) from you” NOW you’re getting it 😉” …not quite…you’re in exchange mode…you have to get out of that mode…you want a girl to seek you for attention on your terms…to seek you for sex for its own sake because she gets wet just thinking about you… …you do your thing…demonstrate value in the sexual marketplace, which means you have to actually be around broads and interact with them…you want multiple girls chasing… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Time for some Maury? Time for some Maury?

Yes!

https://youtu.be/ZtOOKJ2vFC4

Palmasailor
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@Razorwire Ref the ‘rant’ I mean what is a “waste of time anyway”? And why is it even relevant? Let’s just think about that for a moment. Is it being in your company and having fun and stellar sex? Is that “wasting her time”? You could tell her to stopping wasting her time with you and go marry the herb.. he won’t “waste her time” I’ll guarantee it, but she won’t. By the age of 45 she’s wasted enough of her own fucking time on shit decisions and that’s got nothing to do with you. What do you actually “owe”… Read more »

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IRL
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@j
The original quote, is so guys can cope with the fact that she may drop you at any moment for whatever reason.

I know and it still doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t remember seeing it without some bitter reproach expressed sooner or later. A swing from pedestalizing to demonizing or fear talking. I’m not sure it helps with coping.

“She’s gone, it was just my turn” said no successful guy I know IRL ever.

Guys should drop the manosphere catchphrase, take the feedback life has given them and move on.

Blaximus
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I’ve heard the ” just your turn ” sentiment going back to the 70’s.

I’ve only ever heard it in the light of a coping mechanism, as in reality it makes no sense.

Donovan Sharpe likes to blurt it out quite regularly ( among other senseless, loser shit )and that speaks volumes imo, about who he is and who he has been.

Blaximus
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Question: why is it that a woman ” might drop you at any moment “?

Gone feral? In all cases?

Is that a reasonable and legit ” fear ” a man should internalize?

…. She might drop you.

Does that say anything about the ” you “?

It’s true enough that shit can go sideways from time to time in life, but the way that mode of thought – ” She might drop you “, sounds insanely frameless. Soooo…what? Preemptive excuse at the ready?

Sentient
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Blax

Concur. As an aside, any girl who’s ever broken up with me has always come back. So there is that to dwell on.

Meanwhile

https://amp.tmz.com/2019/06/21/leveon-bell-jewelry-heist-911-call-naked-burglars/

Champ or chump? Discuss.

Morpheus

Be advised that looks and muscles /= Alpha.

Blaximus
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Le veon Bell…. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Omg.. 😂😂😂😂😂 Best laugh of the morning so far. But, younger, hotter and maybe tighter.👍👌😆 I read Dennis Rodman book a loooonnnnggg time ago about how women chase athletes and either try to get impregnated ( or bang condomless and try to hook you ), or Rob you ( or set you up to be robbed ).😂 ” they were naked when I left “😂😂😂 on God, make it stop. He should’ve known better. I’m positive that wasn’t his only threesome, but c’mon man, you get up and go workout leaving two hoes in your home?… Read more »

kfg
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Although it looks like he was spending his money all stupid too.

Razorwire
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@palma I got zeroed 10 years back. No phase here. Just riffing off of Morpheus’ current situation and drawing some parallels. At this age the issue of ‘time’, as in a woman hitting the wall or passing thru the other side does create an element that needs to be managed. Morph mentioned she brought up the ‘wasted my time’ in her tantrum. And I followed up because I have experienced this as well. And if you are a man prone to being thoughtful or sensitive to the needs and wants of others this can be a dangerous force; how the… Read more »

Blaximus
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Kfg

Leveon signed a 52.5million contract with the jets.

The target on his back came included at no extra charge.

Even after taxes and agent subtraction, he’s still got plenty of money to blow on jewelry and lose in paternity suits, not to mention being hijacked by various hoes across the land.

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TMZ comments on Bell universally negative, some funny. Best one so far compares his Black Panther necklace charm to a Lucha Libre mask…

Insured? Oh, yeah, they have their own set of investigators, never mind the cops. That could get interesting.

But hey, “Quality Women”, I’m sure, just a l’il misunderstanding. Right?

j
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Good news for 50+ year old men

My wing and I took home two chicks in their 20s last night. My girl kept trying to call her other friend who had left them eariler with a guy in his 50s. She showed me a photo they all took earlier. And guy looked beta as fuck (he was rich tho. Money is an aphrodisiac and all that). But hey he went home with a young chick. So props 💪

Bad news: she was the fat one 😂

Blaximus
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J

Lol. The more a man concentrates on ” her age “, the more apt he is to become a young fatty fucker.

…. I wonder what Bell is thinking about young 20 somethings lately?

It ain’t about them.

theasdgamer
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kfg: Force is an element of physics, not biology. Pressure is well-understood in physics and is a clusterfuck concept in biology. Processes aren’t forces. Luck is real and not random or pseudo-random and is independent of processes. Don’t mix jargon and concepts across disciplines. Keep your shit straight. Engineers! lol To the rest: Real science isn’t done in textbooks. Theories require testing and opposition between groups of scientists. If you’re throwing peanuts instead of adding new ideas, you’re a waste of oxygen when it comes to science. Rollo is kind of doing science and his work requires testing and opposition.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Too bad I’ll probably be dead by the time these 20-25 year olds get to be 50+. I have a pretty good idea how they are going to wind up from watching a bunch of them so far, but more confirmation is always nice to have.😁

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@Razorwire

Thanks for stopping in. I think it’s only me and Scribs that are 50 ish and out there non exclusively – I might be wrong.

I’d quite like others to chime in just to give me some indication that I’m not totally dribbling mad in my assessment of the market.

@J feel free to get the training wheels on your video production game and get some woman to say “pamasailor is an arsehole who is over 50 and can’t pull”

😉you can do it..

j
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“I don’t remember seeing it without some bitter reproach expressed sooner or later.” hmmm. I see it more as a “shrug your shoulder” abundance move on kinda thing. If she leaves for whatever reason, I know I can get another girl of or above her quality. No bitterness from me. But I ain’t everybody. ““She’s gone, it was just my turn” said no successful guy I know IRL ever” You know…..now that I think about it….only girls that I’ve stopped seeing after banging, were girls that wanted to be my girlfriend, 1 girl that moved away to another city (when… Read more »

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There is A LOT to respond to over the past 24 hours or so, so my replies might be a bit disjointed and all over the place chronologically. First, Razorwire, I very much appreciate your comments, and selfishly wish you’d comment more. When I see Razorwire, Novaseeker, or Deti at the top of a post I look forward to what I am about to read because I know I’ll be reading insightful, nuanced thoughts free of posturing and self-aggrandizement. “At this age the issue of ‘time’, as in a woman hitting the wall or passing thru the other side does… Read more »

j
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“But hey, “Quality Women””

Nah. Not really
comment image

j
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@morpheus “basically told me verbatim “I’m OK with being your REBOUND”. aight. “I did enjoy some of the “relationship” type stuff as well, but never with the goal this was some long-term arrangement where we were eventually going to live together or something like that” “she created this narrative where eventually we would be a long-term couple” hmmm… “I saw her starting to scroll up…I was horrified and raced over to snatch my phone back […] she had also read a comment I made to him where I said “This relationship probably has an expiration date” then why you scared… Read more »

MC
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This is the reality we are facing today, folks.

The “good men” are one ones raising others’ kids. That’s their only way into pairing. In fact, women accept marrying those guys because they’re the “responsible ones.”

Morpheus
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Morpheus Be advised that looks and muscles /= Alpha. True dat…BUT there is more to it then that. So I graduated college way back in 1995 at age 21. I was a LOSER with women! I was a virgin, and NEVER even had a girlfriend…I had been on one date which was senior prom. I was also a FAT FUCK having gained weight during college. In 1995, there was no Red Pill, there was no David DeAngelo, there was nothing, but I was smart enough to realize that jocks got girls, and so I started an intense training regimen. Within… Read more »

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then why you scared she gonna see that text, if you don’t view her as long term prospect, in the first place, brah? Well brah, I did mention this in my comment, but I’ll repeat it…the messages between my friend and I ALSO INCLUDED him saying to me and I’m paraphrasing “this girl is way too ugly to be dating a guy who looks like you”, “she is basically a Yugo” and lots of other negative comments regarding her looks. THAT WAS THE PART I DIDN’T WANT HER TO SEE, I really didn’t care much about the comment the relationship… Read more »

j
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“I often wondered if less attractive women made up for it with enthusiasm and technique?”

I’ve actually heard this from one of the best players I know. So I believe it.

“basically saying that she looks like a pile of dogshit and that I can and should be doing much better in the looks department”.

You have a good friend.

theasdgamer
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“So yeah, looks and muscles /= Alpha, but if you are a Fat Fuck or pencil neck who dresses like shit, then those should be the very first things you correct on the road to self-improvement.” “In my experience, you change the outside first, then the inside will change, and I have a lot of experience with this.” Vincenzo ‘Vinnie’ Antonelli, loosely paraphrased “I know I’ll be reading insightful, nuanced thoughts free of posturing and self-aggrandizement.” Half the fun is baiting Blax and Scribbs and pissing off the peanut gallery. I’ve got a couple of new targets, now. I’m still… Read more »

kfg
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@Palma Sailor:

You’re not dribbling mad. You’re perfectly normal. The problem is, normal is wrong.

Or, at least, there is a market that is other than the normal.

Palmasailor
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@kfg

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent ..

Morpheus
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Razorwire, Palma, Question for you guys since you have more experience than me in today’s “dating market” as a middle aged guy. I’ve been thinking about this, and wondering what your thoughts are. Let’s break women into 2 markets, 25-35 and 35-50, I mostly consider over 50 as undateable, the vast majority look like shit. 35 is a somewhat arbitrary breakpoint but it captures some of what I am thinking as the dividing line: Under 35, you are still going to have a sizeable contingent of either unmarried or childless or both, Over 35 we are talking divorced with children.… Read more »

kfg
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@Palma Sailor:

I don’t expect to win or take it with me, but in the meantime, so long as I’m not staking my retirement on it, I can play around with “startups.”

I don’t see why you can’t as well.

I’m not 50ish though, because I’m older than that.

Palmasailor
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@kfg

Interestingly I’m launching another startup. Of course I’d never use the term, it’s a millennial word used to describe the spending (losing) of other people’s money.

But I’m too young to check out and I don’t have enough money.

I had a long lunch with one of my old girl staff a couple of weeks ago and she told me today she’s quit her job so she can commit herself. We didn’t even discuss a pay deal or start date.

So the pressure is on!

Blaximus
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A quick aside, just for the hell of it. Men will have differing experiences dependent on quite a few variables. It’s my belief that the sooner a man becomes ” red pilled ” ( or have a good understanding of female nature through experience ), the more his experiences with women will vary from the man that didn’t have this understanding, or gained it later in life. I’ve had the misfortune of gaining what we’d call red pill understanding at a very young age, through quite a few painful lessons, combined with men around me taking the time to explain… Read more »

kfg
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“I do not believe that ” sperm is cheap, eggs expensive “.”

It’s not wrong, but . . .

. . . it refers to populations, not individuals.

palmasailor
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@Morpheus

You’re thinking too much.

No matter the age – they’re either “would bang” or “would not bang”

Start from there and proceed accordingly

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LiveStreaming Now:

Rollo and Conk on Christian Culture vs The Bible

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