Primordial Archetypes

This morning I was made aware of another example of open Hypergamy. A Russian Alpha Widow admitted to her duplicity in switching her Beta husband’s sperm with that of her ex lover’s in her IVF insemination. Now, at the risk of throwing red meat to the wolves here, I wanted to dissect this situation a bit to explain a larger concept I’ve been considering lately. It would be enough to use this situation as one more example of women’s prime directive – Hypergamy before all else – but, there’s more involved here that illustrates the sociological reach that Hypergamy has for women.

You see, Yana Anokhina, 38, couldn’t have pulled off her deception of Maxim Anokhin without enlisting the aid of Dr. Liya Kazaryan and her staff in swapping out his sperm for that of Yana’s former lover; the Alpha for whom she was widowed’. I’m not entirely sure that her former lover (now her current relationship) was aware of the swap, but there’s no question about Yana’s motives.

Ms Anokhina has not spoken about the swap but reports say she wanted the father of her baby to be the man she loved – not her husband.

‘It was found out during the investigation in court that Maxim’s wife Yana was the one who initiated the process of replacing her husband’s biological material,’ reported Vesti.

‘Allegedly, she wanted to give birth to a child by a man with whom she was in love, and her husband was the one who paid the costs.’

So this isn’t just as simple as she got knocked up by her Alpha lover and tricked her Beta husband into believing the inseminated sperm was his own. She had to actually go to the trouble of collecting two samples of sperm, convincing the IVF clinic’s doctor and staff into making the swap (and then withholding the truth from the father) and then carrying the pregnancy to term and keeping her husband ignorant of the ruse for a year. This may seem like the deviousness of a particular woman, but remember, she had to enlist the confidence of Dr. Kazaryan and other clinicians (I presume also female).

And she does all this with a laugh.

I’ve written quite a bit on what I call the Sisterhood Über Alles and this is one more example of how that collective female consciousness intuitively understands and both consciously and unconsciously promotes the interests of the Feminine Imperative – even for unfamiliar, anonymous women.

Now you might say, “Well Rollo, this is just one horrible example of a few women who got in cahoots to deceive a hapless Beta chump. Not all women are like this.” Or I’m sure the more morally conscious of ‘red pill women’ would simply point out that they would never do such a thing and convince us that ‘quality women’ regularly police their own Hypergamous impulses – these Russian women just lack their moral superiority. Well, be that as it may, it’s not too difficult to find online forums dedicated to women collaborating with other women in order to trick a man into marrying a woman via false pregnancy claims. In fact there’s a lucrative black market for positive pregnancy tests sold to women wanting to press their boyfriends into a marriage commitment by way of a false-positive pregnancy scare.

The fact behind all this still remains – women evolved for a subconscious, collective duplicity when it comes to optimizing on Hypergamy.

We can see this in popular culture; a culture defined by the Feminine Imperative now. Dalrock once said we have replaced the monogamous marriage model of child rearing with the child support model of child rearing today. I believe he’s right, but how is that child support model effected today and how doe it align with women’s evolved, instinctual predilections?

Humankind evolved from small tribal collectives, but in each collective there were commonalities of behaviors that developed similarly to solve various personal and collective (tribal) problems. For instance, an instinctive (unlearned) fear of snakes or spiders in women is an evolved part of humankind’s collective mental firmware. A small boys natural propensity to throw an object with strength and accuracy might be another example.

How women interact today in what I call the Sisterhood is a gestalt of the various instinctive behaviors that the women of our tribal ancestors developed to aid them in collective support as well as ensuring long-term security in reproduction. In other words, women evolved to do exactly what Dr. Kazaryan did, and so many other women in various “trick him into marrying you” forums do, to enable another woman’s sexual strategy. From an evolutionary perspective it follows that women who aided their ‘sisters’ in Hypergamy would themselves be aided and insure that this archetypal behavior became a characteristic of women’s collectivist nature.

I once watched a video of some daytime women’s talk show that centered on how women could justifiably trap a man into commitment by essentially lying to him about a faked pregnancy. I apologize for not having a link to it here, but while I was looking for it on YouTube I was inundated with videos of shows on this topic – I literally couldn’t find the one I was thinking of because there were so many returns. Watching this show I was hit by just how many women in the audience rallied behind the women doing the ‘trapping’ and the myriad justifications offered to allay any feelings of guilt, remorse or doubts about having a child.

This is particularly emphasized if the ‘father’ in question fulfills an ideal of women’s collective Hypergamy. To the collective hivemind of women, a woman is, by nature, entitled to a child with the most perfect father (high SMV) she can attract. Remember, shows and online forums like this are only small representative examples of that global Hypergamous archetypal expectation and the support women offer each other to optimize Hypergamy. I’ve stated before the the Sisterhood Über Alles (above all) transcends all considerations of tribe, race, religion and even political stripe. All women are part of ‘team woman‘ before any other affiliation; this is how the Feminine Imperative has remained a social influence since our hunter/gatherer beginnings. As we’ve progressed from small tribalist beginnings to larger collectives, to nations and now to globalism, this female collectivism has expanded to encompass the totality of womankind.

Love Me Vampire, Fuck Me Werewolf

Anyone who’s been reading my work for a while is probably scratching their heads as to why I’m referring to the concept of ‘archetypes’ here. As most of my readers know, I’ve never been a fan of Carl Jung. I’ve written about why this is a few times and I’ll probably write a more comprehensive essay about it in the coming year, but suffice to say that while Jung might be synonymous with the new agey metaphysical concept of archetypes, it was from anthropology that he lifted the term and that’s the basic reference I’m using here. That said, I don’t necessarily disagree with Jungian archetypes, it’s at the point where the concept takes on metaphysical aspects that I part ways with them.

However, the idea of archetypes is necessary to explain the last bit of the puzzle here, because it’s my belief that a primordial understanding of Hypergamy is part of our collective consciousness and unconsciousness. I say collective consciousness because since the time of the Sexual Revolution our global understanding of intersexual dynamics has become part of our social discourse. When I refer to something like Open Hypergamy I’m talking about the almost triumphant, open embrace of women’s sexual strategy. The generations that came after the Sexual Revolution scarcely remember that there was a time when intersexual truths we take for granted now weren’t something that was discussed in polite conversation. Hypergamy, while unconsciously understood, was secretive. A woman who other women called a ‘gold digger’ was disparaged by women not on moral grounds, but rather because she was open about the sexual strategy all women employ and they’d rather be kept secret so as to use it effectively.

In 2018 it’s almost quaint to think that women would be coy about Hypergamy. With the advent of the internet it became impossible for women to keep Hypergamy concealed, and really, why would they care to in an age when the necessary provisioning-side of Hypergamy is veritably insured? But it wasn’t always so obvious. Up until the mid 1960s the understanding of Hypergamy was an unconscious knowledge. Certainly it was discussed and written about by men contemplating the duplicitous nature of women. Ancient religious texts are rife with proverbs warning against the nature of women, so the basics of Hypergamy were something our tribal ancestors we’re well aware of.

I received this Tweet from a reader a few days ago:

This guy’s ‘revelation’ prompted me to consider the primordial understanding we have of Hypergamy. I’ve read dozens of articles by, and listened to dozens more interviews of, ‘popular psychologists’ who explain the commonalities of our classic human stories and myths. I got into this topic in Storytelling. The basic premise is that our common evolution has led to common themes in all human stories. The same elements and the same character archetypes pursue the same motives from culture to culture. Yet all of these commonalities are centered on similar aspects of our evolved mental firmware. The hero, the villain, good vs. evil, the wise old sage, the beautiful damsel to be saved, ect. are all founded on common human development. They are semi-conscious expressions of what our evolution has embedded in our mental firmware.

Now, what if I told you that the reality of women’s Hypergamous nature is also a part of that collective consciousness?

My theory is this: human beings have an innate understanding of the Alpha Seed – Beta Need nature of intersexual dynamics. On some level of consciousness we know, we feel, that it’s true, how it functions and why does. As a result, social institutions (religion and familial) created moral strictures around this unconscious knowledge to buffer against the worst effects of it on society. Only after the Sexual Revolution and men ceding virtually unilateral control of Hypergamy to women did these strictures change.

The concepts of men who represent Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks are similarly part of this instinctual understanding of Hypergamy. These too are archetypes, but more so, they form the basis of more complex male archetypes (love me Vampire, fuck me Werewolf). They are the men women want to fuck and the men women want to be provided for by. And we can trace the root of these archetypes through our evolution and even the evolution of other primates. These Hypergamous archetypes then manifest themselves in our era-specific, cultural specific, stories, narratives, mythology, etc.

701 comments

  1. In the theater of previous ages, even at the level of “Punch and Judy” puppets, these standard archetypes were common. The foolish old man who chases the young woman, who pretends to love him only for his resources while cuckolding him with a younger man; more than one opera as well. A different version of AF-BB.

    Mozart’s 18th century opera “Cosi fan Tutti” (“Thus they all are”) is a timeless and amusing look, a modern title would be “All Women Are Like That”. Heh. Many examples abound.

    It is remarkable to view art, read literature, see operas and plays all clearly steeped in a realistic, Red Pill / Glasses perspective from previous centuries as if they are some new revelation.

    When did Western culture begin to hide these timeless truths from men? Was it the late Victorian era, was it the 20’s, the 50’s, when?

  2. A werewolf in vampire” clothing might be an apt new metaphor in the manasphere. Rollo, did you (and the guy who forwarded you the comic strip he created) just create a new viral meme?!

  3. why not keep the betas in the dark, and raise the alpha lover’s kids tho? Real Alphas are typically poor selfish scumbags who’d make unsuitable fathers anyway.

    – Girl gets what she wants: alpha seed.
    – Alpha gets what he wants: continue his legacy
    – Beta gets what he wants: family life, contributes to society and best of all: he gets to fuck The One ™ he’s so in luvv with (since he’s not interested in the player lifestyle).

  4. Rollo: I haven’t been able to write to you directly so will post something here.

    What are your thoughts on “blue pill” women, ie. the same blue/red pill framework applied to women? Are there any parallels?

  5. I can’t recall which of Rollo’s posts it was, but women are all essentially “red pill”, even if they don’t know it by that term. Some men are “red pill”, consciously or unconsciously. Most “blue pill” men are that way unconsciously. Then there’s the “purple pill” set of men trying to use red pill means to fulfill blue pill ends.
    I can’t imagine what a “blue pill” woman is. Perhaps it is a woman who so thoroughly manages to delude herself with the feminist pablum that she ends up alone with cats, dildos and wine after a wild ride on the Carousel. The “red pill” woman would party hard during her best years and would manage to land a provider just before hitting the Wall.

  6. I am sure the doctor who helped in the IVF switch is some man’s “quality woman”, too.

  7. “Real Alphas are typically poor selfish scumbags who’d make unsuitable fathers anyway.”

    Oh, Really?

    Know they are not, exactly.

    You aren’t that beguiling as you so fancy yourself. And women aren’t that enticed, as you believe.

    Good luck with that world-view.

  8. why not keep the betas in the dark, and raise the alpha lover’s kids tho?
    – Girl gets what she wants: alpha seed.
    – Alpha gets what he wants: continue his legacy
    – Beta gets what he wants: family life, contributes to society and best of all: he gets to fuck The One ™ he’s so in luvv with (since he’s not interested in the player lifestyle).

    YaReally where art thou?

    Your eternal questions haunt J. And hang in the air. WTF?

    In the Air Tonight

    Phil Collins

    I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
    And I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord
    Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord

    Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand
    I’ve seen your face before my friend, but I don’t know if you know who I am
    Well I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own two eyes
    So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you’ve been
    It’s all been a pack of lies

  9. If you want to take the ideas into the next level, I suggest you to read Stan Gooch’s books. His take is that vampire archetypes are phylogenetic reminiscences of our female-centric Neanderthal genetic heritage. The Sister Uber Alles concept also reminds me of Frank Herbert’s Bene Gesserit.

  10. SJF

    “Real Alphas are typically poor selfish scumbags who’d make unsuitable fathers anyway.”

    Oh, Really?

    Know they are not, exactly.

    You aren’t that beguiling as you so fancy yourself. And women aren’t that enticed, as you believe.

    Good luck with that world-view.

    Oh yeah SJF oh yeah
    And you know one more thing sweetheart? Women don’t even expect men to display both provider and arousal characteristics.

    There is not another mammal species that has that much prolonged luteal phase, luteal phase is for Betas, especially engineered for the provider, women neither want to mate with Alphas during this phase nor with Betas in Estras phase. From my life experiences, a man only can hold one personality.

    Thing is that, you’re trapped in your marriage, can’t leave your wife for your long-time investment , alimony,child-support bills, alienation from your children don’t change the game. Women are skilled at betrayal, they can be cookie-ladies, act to have a very enjoyable time with you and still fuck the werewolf when you’re not home.

    This dynamic first came to my eyes when I was thirteen, she used to have regular call from a guy, my mom liked that guy before she had married my dad. Despite all her Quality of Angels, she couldn’t resist talking with him hours after hours.

    Yeah, cheating women are someone’s beloved daughter, someone’s beloved wife, someone’s beloved mother, but they are also biological human. I don’t like Donovan Sharpe that much, I’m not black, but he said once that the first woman who is going to break your heart probably is your mom, no she didn’t cheat on my dad. But if that guy really wanted that, I know she would

  11. @Mineter

    I can’t recall which of Rollo’s posts it was, but women are all essentially “red pill”, even if they don’t know it by that term.

    Only women’s sex-brain is Red Pill. Their cortex is often very Blue Pill. Hamsterization.

  12. Theasdgamer
    Right, But that cortex is working for her blue-pill allies. How can you lethally cheat on someone? First, you’ve to cheat on yourself. Women are not consciously aware of it, but that’s what makes her skilled at betrayal

  13. LotF

    What you are missing is that women can be trained to manage their Hypergamy. Such women are suitable for LTRs.

    Example 1. Mrs. Gamer didn’t kiss a man until she was out of her father’s house. No boyfriend for 21 years. Then she had one and would only allow brief kisses on the lips. She was a virgin when we married. Mrs. Gamer’s father told her that if she had a bf, her father would stop supporting her and kick her out of the house. Mrs. Gamer didn’t date in HS or college.

    Example 2. Mrs. Gamer had a crush on a doctor who worked at the same hospital while we were married. The doctor was internationally famous and arrogant as all get out. Very alpha. Whenever Mrs. Gamer saw the doc in the hallway at the hospital, she would hide to avoid him. Mrs. Gamer figured out on her own that she had to avoid alphas.

  14. @SJF

    What I said, and you know it I know, is the core of biology, if the environment is adversarial, women will try to fit it with new reality. It’s always better to think every productive woman is a slut, says the PUA

  15. Theasdgamer

    I’m a young man, and I’m not planning to get married anywhere in the future, but hypothetically, if my wife had a crush on someone else, I would go fuck random women until she fears me more. I have to be the ultimate Alpha in her eyes

  16. I’m a young man, and I’m not planning to get married anywhere in the future, but hypothetically, if my wife had a crush on someone else, I would go fuck random women until she fears me more. I have to be the ultimate Alpha in her eyes

    You don’t understand how women’s sexual arousal works. Whenever women come in contact with an alpha or three, her focus will be on them and she will forget you because she is in the moment–even if you have excellent game and frame and are fucking multiple women and are the ultimate alpha when you are with other alphas. For a woman, it’s always about who is the “top dog” in the woman’s context. The only way that women can manage attraction to other alphas when you are not around is to try to avoid being alone with them.

  17. After my first and only break up from a relationship, which was for my girlfriend talked to other guys on Facebook, I was devastated, I dumped her . First, I thought I was not enough of a man . But, after I encountered this blog , I know now what I needed was having option. But now I’ve option, I can not think of any relationship with a girl, I’ve hit it quit it mentality. I fuсked 2 girls in last month, but I can’t fuck twice a girl. I blocked those 2 girls in every possible way, they were dying to keep at least some contact with me, even to become a side hoe, but they are ghosted forever.

  18. ASD – Once again you are taking your limited life experience of data point=1 and extrapolating generalizations to the extreme. Clearly the (limited) experiences of you and Mrs. Gamer are not typical of most others.

    Just because “hypergamy doesn’t care” (i.e. she WILL be aroused by the Alpha in the room), it does not logically follow that she will not ALSO remember your dread game and feel fear in that same moment. Remember that they want IT ALL!

    At least in my personal experience, dread game sticks with your woman even when you’re not in the room. If it doesn’t, you aren’t doing it right…

  19. @Marelius

    Dread Game is for Betas, which means the way he leads life, isn’t enough to keep up his wife’s pussy wet. Alphas I know, actually don’t follow all norms of being married. They still flirt with other women, make them aware of his potential and their wives fuck their husbands brains out for their own sake. If the cake isn’t sweet enough, he’s already moved to fucking other women, though it doesn’t happen, fuck my uncle is that person

  20. @Lord of the Flies

    Re: The ultimate alpha in her eyes.

    Are you a dark triad 0.1%er that could quite literally have her murdered and get away with it if she ever betrayed you?

    If not, marriage may not be for you.

  21. Women LOVE the excitement of “not getting caught”. In an odd way, dread game may end up causing women to have super secret affairs as open hypergamy continues to unfold.

    How does humanity learn these lessons and then retain them? As has been stated, this knowledge is already contained in our older works of art, yet we’ve lost track of them. Society is going to tank and have to be rebuilt. What finally gets men to retain these lessons?

  22. @14sonnenrad88

    I actually like murdering , in my childhood, I used to murder farming animals like duck, chicken and pet creature like cat. But as I grew up, I’m made to feel conscious about myself, I know I will scarcely get away with murdering women. Instead, like Rollo suggests, perfecting myself to avoid those situations is the best strategy for me. But I swear to God, I don’t have temperament to listen to my wife that she is afraid of some other men.

  23. @marelius

    Just because “hypergamy doesn’t care” (i.e. she WILL be aroused by the Alpha in the room), it does not logically follow that she will not ALSO remember your dread game and feel fear in that same moment.

    True, and hopefully she will leave the presence of the competing alpha because of your Dread Game even if she is untrained. Training really is essential. If you don’t know how to train a girl, you’re not doing it right.

    @LotF

    Dread Game is for Betas, which means the way he leads life, isn’t enough to keep up his wife’s pussy wet.

    You are an expert at kj-ing about relationships. It’s so obvious that you lack relationship skills. Even though I’m autistic, I have solid relationship skills.

  24. Asdgamer
    You didn’t check my latest text, I’m not a relationship, humour type of guy

  25. @asdgamer

    I don’t know anything about kj-ing I swear. But I know my uncle is living very well without any Red Pill supplementary knowledge

  26. A girl in her 20’s i’m currently banging has this Twilight look. I call her vampire, she calls me werewolf…

    It just sort of evolved. Now I realize these archetypes represent two sides of the same coin: The vampire takes by slowly sucking the life out of her victim…the werewolf aggressively takes what he wants when he wants.

  27. @LOTF, as regards @ASD comments on KJ-ing, as well as your reference to your uncle…

    I got an Uncle in Puerto Rico
    Spends his days in the sun
    His nights in the casinos
    He left the States many years ago
    Took a fishin’ boat to Puerto Rico
    Now my aunt – she is sad and lonely
    She’ll never know that she drove him away
    As a coward I admire his courageous ways

    Its that last line that makes me think of you, LOTF

  28. Just a thought: isn’t the dragon the knight has to vanquish to get the princess an archetypical representation of the biggest shit test of all. She’s a princess, to earn her, you need to show your mettle, get the shit beaten out of you and surely risk your life. Told by men, the emotional battering a man will get to conquer a woman is presented as a a formidable obstacle in the form of a dragon.

  29. Dread Game is for MRP, which means the way he leads life, is enough to keep up his relationship on edge, his will in command, and his wife’s pussy wet.

    FTFY

    MRP is RP on hard mode – no one not in that game can understand what that means. When those not in the MRP game ask, and we describe, you challenge what is said because you cannot wrap your mind around it. Yes, it IS a YUGE amount of work, so it stands to reason those of us undertaking that effort will have correspondingly YUGE amounts of reference material.

    Also, before anyone jumps on to criticize – I do NOT recommend marriage to anyone not already deeply invested (i.e. kids, more than half of your lifetime experiences, etc.)

  30. The Sister Uber Alles concept also reminds me of Frank Herbert’s Bene Gesserit

    Second rate science fiction from the 1960’s is no basis for understanding reality in 2018.

  31. You didn’t check my latest text, I’m not a relationship, humour type of guy

    Obviously, if you’re commenting on relationships, but not in one, then you’re a fucking keyboard jockey.

  32. Rates of three STDs in US reach record high, CDC says

    The preliminary data suggest that more than 1.7 million cases of chlamydia were diagnosed in 2017, with about 45% — 771,340 cases — emerging among 15- to 24-year-old women and girls.

    In 2013, there were 1,752,285 total cases of chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphilis diagnosed in the United States. That number grew to 1,811,850 in 2014; 1,945,746 in 2015; 2,094,682 in 2016; and 2,294,821 in 2017, according to the preliminary CDC data.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/health/std-rates-united-states-2018-bn/

    This being CNN, it’s probably just more Fake News.

    Stay buttoned up.

  33. Asdgamer

    So sad, you’re a solipsistic PUA, want me to be a PUA too? Many men are getting their ass licked by women without this knowledge, and I won’t remember your terminologies you understand?

    This blog is a great source of knowledge, adding to comments are great way to know more

    Btw, you got a trophy wife that 80% of men need today

  34. j
    why not keep the betas in the dark, and raise the alpha lover’s kids tho? Real Alphas are typically poor selfish scumbags who’d make unsuitable fathers anyway.

    Oh, come on, you can troll a bit more subtly than that.

    Besides, prima noctae / Droit du seigneur is so old fashioned.

  35. @ j

    “Why not keep the betas in the dark, and raise the alpha lover’s kids tho?
    Real Alphas are typically poor selfish scumbags who’d make unsuitable fathers anyway.”

    Disregarding the ethical aspects or any sense of justice, do you really want those “poor selfish scumbag” genes propagating in society over those who value “family life & contribute to society”?

    Is this sarcasm? Who are the nether-apes liking this sort of one-dimensional ‘thinking’?

  36. being forced into finance linkedin feeds…

    https://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/322642/im-female-banker-male-colleagues-making-infertile

    Posted in toto

    I’m a woman in banking. I’m a vice president and am nearly a decade into my career in the investment banking division (IBD) of a European bank in London. I am at an age when you might expect to have a child. – I would certainly like to have a child, but I believe that my banking career is making it difficult for me to conceive.

    When you’re a woman in your mid-30s, fertility is not a given. If you’re working 80 hours a week and are exhausted, conceiving a child doesn’t necessarily happen as easily as you might think. I know, and I am not the only one to have this problem. For women in finance, the heavy workload, the high stress and the lack of sleep not only make it difficult to find a partner, but are a recipe for hormonal imbalance and infertility. The longer I work in banking, the more that I feel that I’m being made to make a choice: the ability to conceive, or the opportunity to become an MD.

    My male colleagues don’t have this dilemma. Not only are they able to have children easily (often with women who work outside banking) but their ability to start families is making it even harder for female bankers like me to do the same.

    In the past few years several of my male colleagues have started families. They all take paternity leave (usually for around a month, sometimes for longer) and when they come back they often expect to work a bit less. As a case in point, I was recently asked to take on extra project by a colleague who’s a new father – he said he needs to spend time with his baby and can’t work as much as I do.

    I’m stuck in a vicious cycle. The more that my male colleagues have children, the more that I am expected to cover for them and the harder it becomes for me to conceive. You can see why I’m annoyed.

    It’s time that this dynamic is openly discussed. Plenty of women my age in finance have the same problem. It’s not considered appropriate to push-back when all the new fathers (and there are quite a few of them) expect their still-childless female colleagues to work harder than they do. Nor do any of these men take time to really understand the women they work with or to appreciate the sacrifices they are making for their roles.

    Men and women are not the same. Women can and will work as hard as men, but doing so often comes at a tangible physical cost. This is why a lot of the senior women in banking are childless. By comparison, most of the men in banking have children. Some women in banking choose not to have children, but for a lot of women it’s forced upon them. Men in banking need to be more sensitive to this – and to stop crowing about their children and expecting childless female colleagues to pick up the slack when they start dumping work on them and taking extra time off.

    Laura McDonald is the pseudonym of a VP level banker in London

  37. Sentient @

    Doing some desk job, computer job don’t make women comparable to men. They forget that Men are the risk takers, their disposability is their honour, it’s only modern time men reduced the world to a desk and computer and now women compare themselves to men? Fate itself isn’t without a sense of irony.

  38. @sentient

    C’mon my female colleagues. You don’t have children, cover me sometimes so I can go play with mine

  39. Sentient links to:

    For women in finance, the heavy workload, the high stress and the lack of sleep not only make it difficult to find a partner, but are a recipe for hormonal imbalance and infertility.

    Duh. It’s called a “tradeoff” for a reason. The entitlement drips. The common sense is absent.

    Cleary we are not at peak feminism yet.

  40. @Rollo

    “On some level of consciousness we know, we feel, that it’s true, how it functions and why does. As a result, social institutions (religion and familial) created moral strictures around this unconscious knowledge to buffer against the worst effects of it on society.”

    Prior to encountering this blog and the manosphere I used to find hints of red pill in the works of Marquis De Sade and most importantly when I read an interview of the artist Otto Muehl from the Viennese actionist movement. Muehl started in the early 70’s the infamous far-left commune “Friedrichshof Commune” which basically was a blank slate social experiment. According to his words:

    “It was a social experiment with collective property, free sexuality, and collective children’s education, and involved the private instruction and higher-level education of children and adults in the fine and performing arts, including: music, dance, theater, film, self-expression, painting, actionist art, and work in our own workshops and business enterprises. This time the actions were not carried out by me alone, but by all of the members: it was a commune of actionist life-praxis. Actionist art is distinguished by not aiming at an end result, but seeking to become a practice where all the developmental possibilities of a conceptualized project can be acted out. At that time, I had the hope that a new work of art could come into being in precisely this way, one that renewed and rejuvenated itself in an evolutionary way. As later became apparent, this project was infected with its own demise from the very outset. The idea was not able to sustain itself and to develop farther into the future. On the contrary, starting in the 1980s, the participants began to show signs of fatigue. Disagreements over collective property and private property, and over monogamy and free sexuality, which we could not resolve at that time, precipitated the dissolution of the group. I know today that monogamy and free sexuality are needs of equal value. The extremes of monogamy and free sexuality, private and collective, can only be solved by the synthesis of the “as well as” principle. I hold pure collective property to be an unsuitable form of social organization. Collective property belongs to no one. The individual owners of collective property own nothing; rather, the collective property owns them. They work not for themselves but for the collective property. Collective property led to self-exploitation.”

    “How was your commune formed, and what kinds of people joined it? Did the commune members come from particular social classes? Had they been previously involved with your art works?

    They were naïve people who were washed ashore during the student revolts in the 1960s. They came in innocent and left the same. They didn’t know what they were saying: “We don’t want couple relationships.” They didn’t know what that meant. They thought they could fuck around. They saw that they couldn’t handle their sexuality. The women in the commune were those who created culture. They chose their partners for themselves. Those who could not succeed outside in society in inspiring a woman to love them had even less success in the commune because the competition was greater. Many were very disappointed.”

  41. Excellent exposition of the female psyche: hamsterization of the dual desires to be suckled (vampire) and to be ravaged (werewolf). In both cases men, monstrous, are the vehicles for fulfillment of those desires. In both cases “it just happened” to the woman . . . because men are monsters — a nice circular alleviation of any possible culpability.

    Male imaging of the vampire and werewolf is usually the ideal seducer and the ideal rapine respectively.

  42. Oh come on! I’m a woman who discovered the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere some time back and actually agree with quite a bit of it. I do think there are scripts women are consciously and subconsciously encouraged to follow, and I think many of those scripts are ultimately self-defeating. I think ‘social media feminism’ is confused, at best. But articles like this are exhausting.

    You are speaking about some kind of a feminine collective that encompasses all cultures and races. Dude, you cannot make that kind of proclamation based on some newspaper clippings and Youtube videos. That’s just bad research — really, really bad.

    There is a big gaping hole in this whole Red Pill philosophy that I’ve yet to see addressed, and it is this — female breadwinners/women who *can’t* be hypergamous because they earn too much.

    You talk about hypergamy spanning cultures, well let’s talk about it.

    I’m a Caribbean-American woman and at this point I am the second generation of women in my family who out-earned their husbands. And I am not a “unicorn” this is a PATTERN in black American culture. A significant percentage of black women have been out-earning their black male partners for some time now. Yes, yes there are the women who try to snag NBA/NFL players and trap them, but that does not represent a statistically meaningful percentage of black women who marry/partner up.

    https://thegrio.com/2013/06/14/african-american-women-coping-well-in-new-age-of-breadwinner-moms-in-which-40-percent-of-women-out-earn-spouses/

    If a black woman wants a black male partner, there is a pretty good chance that she will have to marry down socioeconomically.

    My mother was a corporate accountant while my father was a graduate student. Once he got out of grad school and entered a poor-earning career in academia she CHOSE to give up her lucrative career to bring a sense of ‘gender balance’ to the relationship. Years later she told me that it is one of the biggest regrets of her life, and she encouraged me never to give up my career/financial power within a marriage.

    I kept that advice when I married and, as a small business owner, out-earned my husband for the duration of our short marriage. And incidentally it was, in large part, his inability to deal with a high earning wife that accounted for the end of our union.

    I am a single mom (the group you LOVE to deride) and 33 years old (supposedly I’ve ‘hit the wall’) and I have NO PROBLEM dating. I am financially independent and thus have not squeezed my ex husband for child support. He has liberal visitation/overnights with his children.

    And this is often what happens when women have access to TRUE power and TRUE independence — they no longer see the need for a hypergamous script. And that’s when all of your “science” hits a wall. According to the many MANY articles of yours I’ve read on this site I should be a cat lady, trying to trap a man and weeping about my lost opportunity for partnership.

    Instead I helm a successful beauty startup, co-parent with my ex-husband and have an active dating and social life. I would love to marry again, but because I don’t need to marry a man for kids or money I have the ability to focus on things like compatibility and companionship.

    You may call me a unicorn, but I represent a growing percentage of women. As you note, women are making up a larger and larger share of college graduates and this is impacting the professional market in a big way. The number of woman entrepreneurs is skyrocketing and although statistically men still have a vast share of earning and professional power in this country, it is slowly but surely heading in a more equitable direction.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/female-breadwinners-marriage_us_5b3ef51fe4b09e4a8b2b780c

    You talk about evolution all the time, but you seem to ignore how society around you is evolving.

  43. It’s “Alpha Fucks” AND “Beta Bux” toots…

    A significant percentage of black women have been out-earning their black male partners for some time now.

    Congrats… now you are your own beta bux, you can focus on Alpha Fucks exclusively… [ white womenz are catching up…]

    I would love to marry again, but because I don’t need to marry a man for kids or money I have the ability to focus on things like compatibility and companionship.

    and there it is…

    More ‘work” for those werewolves out there… If you can get them to stop liming and come round for some roti 😉

  44. @Ugh

    “I don’t need to marry a man for kids or MONEY” …then above “And incidentally it was, in large part, his inability to deal with a high earning wife that accounted for the end of our union.”

    Also stop being so deluded! Men don’t give a fuck on things like compatibility and companionship with a single mommy!

  45. So I’ve been a lurker in the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere long enough to know that what’s coming is a string of insults targeting my female identity.

    Just so you know, I will be bypassing/ignoring all of those and waiting until someone addresses the core of my comment: the GAP in the Red Pill mindset aka women who are financially and, to a degree, socially independent and thus don’t adhere to a hypergamous script. These are women, like me, who still want men in their lives for sex and companionship, but are not following a hypergamous script to achieve that.

  46. “You may call me a unicorn . . .”

    You keep using that word. I think it means the opposite of what you think it means.

  47. “I’ve been a lurker in the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere . . . I will be bypassing/ignoring all of those and waiting until someone addresses the core of my comment: the GAP in the Red Pill mindset aka women who are financially and, to a degree, socially independent and thus don’t adhere to a hypergamous script.”

    Which just goes to show: reading is not the same thing as comprehension.

    Why would I “target” your femininity when you are presenting as the very model of human female hypergamy, an anti-unicorn?

  48. “So I’ve been a lurker in the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere long enough to know that what’s coming is a string of insults targeting my female identity.”

    Not hardly. I was about to unload with a string of insults targeting your female masculinity….

    BTW, why didn’t your first marriage work out?

  49. “I was about to unload with a string of insults targeting your female masculinity….”

    She is projecting desirable to women masculine traits onto herself as if they were desirable to men feminine traits.

    Which, of course, we have never seen a mid 30s, single mother and career woman do before.

  50. @UGH

    I’d guess you are lurking here because you are not getting the kind of sex you need.

    Correct me if I’m wrong?

  51. compatibility and companionship, huh?

    What virtues do you want your next man to have in order to be a compatible companion for you?

    List like five things here.

  52. . . . waiting until someone addresses the core of my comment: the GAP in the Red Pill mindset aka women who are financially and, to a degree, socially independent and thus don’t adhere to a hypergamous script.

    I’ll address it: what’s your waist-to-hip ratio?

  53. It’s ok, don’t be shy, Deida estimates 10% of heterosexual relationships are masculine female and feminine male. Nothing wrong with that if you are compatible and complement each other.

  54. This isn’t really about that in total.

    This is about something the sphere knows very little about, and is not researched widely, nor has it ever been addressed in any meaningful way.

    I’ll respond to her when I get time, but it’s gonna be tl;:dr and it won’t make sense at all ( from experience or perspective ) to many of my fellow commenters.

    I’ve said forever, there’s more than one red pill, and there’s more than one reality happening simultaneously.

    Matrix.

  55. @Palmasailor

    if she is having a super exciting life as a high earning single mommy why she is a lurker in the manosphere?

  56. ” . . . there’s more than one reality happening simultaneously.”

    The Wachowski things completely fell apart when their movies hit that point.

  57. ” Voodoo?”

    Nope. Any man that has accepted the need for a red pill understand that things aren’t always what they appear to be on the surface, OR what society Tells you is going on.

    This, is a universal truth – not just one to be cherry picked.

    Buuuttttt…..

    It is, and it will be.

    Cool.

  58. “Seventy percent of our households are led by our precious, proud, fine black women,” he said. “But as proud, beautiful and fine as our black women are, one thing a black woman cannot do — a black woman cannot raise a black boy to be a man.”–Edgy remarks made by Rev. Jasper Williams Jr. at Aretha Franklin’s funeral last Friday have drawn criticism from the Franklin family for failing to properly eulogize the Queen of Soul.

  59. @kfj

    Nope. We live in 2018. ‘Earning a lot of money’ cannot continue to be a gendered thing. My business is as girly as they come. I found a niche in beauty. However, the business earns well. You can interpret that as masculine. I interpret it as modern capitalism.

    There are women who come out the gate with an intent to be high powered. And then there are women, like me, who are naturally intelligent and find their way in the American economy in a way that rewards them financially. I am not ‘projecting’ anything. I am stating my lived experience. For you to slap ‘male’ on my life as an entrepreneur is pretty bizarre.

    Is my business savvy attractive to men? I’m sure to some it isn’t. To some it is. I don’t worry about how my life looks to other people. It’s my life.

    @Palmasailor

    I dated 4 guys this summer. I enjoy casual sex. I’m good.

    @SJF

    That is what I am currently figuring out. Humor, intelligence and dependability come to mind. My marriage failed for many reasons but Blue Pilled thinking was a part of it, which is why I have grown cold to feminism. We started getting funky with the gender roles simply because I was earning more. Men need to be men and women need to be women. The challenge, I think, is figuring out what exactly that looks like in this day and age when economics are becoming increasingly fluid when it comes to gender.

    @SJB

    I have nothing to hide and I don’t hide behind a keyboard while talking big. My instagram is here: https://www.instagram.com/leilanoelliste/ since you’re so concerned about my measurements. But while we’re at it, what are yours?

    @Blaximus

    I’m assuming from the name you’re black as well? Maybe understand a bit where I am coming from? It is not that I deny hypergamy. It happens. But my contention is that Rollo paints it with way too broad a brush. As a black woman a lot of what he says about “female nature” sounds straight up foreign to me.

  60. @SJF

    No, I can’t raise a black boy to be a man. I never said I could.

    This is why I co-parent and we are currently finalizing a joint custody agreement.

    As Blaximus said, stay on topic.

  61. “Seventy percent of our households are led by our precious, proud, fine black women,”

    The Caribbean got there 100 years ahead of Detroit.

    @Ugh: ” For you to slap ‘male’ on my life as an entrepreneur is pretty bizarre.”

    Q.E.D.

  62. Ugh
    The challenge, I think, is figuring out what exactly that looks like in this day and age when
    economics are becoming increasingly fluid when it comes to gender.

    Hypergamy will be satisfied, or trouble will ensue. That’s a given. There’s more than one way to satisfy hypergamic needs.

    One option can be described thus:
    “I’m the captain of the boat even when she’s catching most of the fish”.

    Women’s ingroup preference of 4:1 is testable, it shows up cross culturally, and of course you deny it. Women always do…

  63. “The fact behind all this still remains – women evolved for a subconscious, collective duplicity when it comes to optimizing on Hypergamy.”

    Women collective seek to ensure and optimize hypergamy. I get that, as it’s seen in nature, by female animal gatekeeping sex to only the successful male that is the tournament winner. He is the best of the contenders, so he mates with all the females of the pride or herd. Human females don’t get to share one prime male “winner”, so at what point does the human female collective duplicity for hypergamy breakdown into intra-sexual competition between themselves? Not all of the thots can be winners.

  64. @AR
    “Second rate science fiction from the 1960’s is no basis for understanding reality in 2018.”

    You Earthlings are like frightened children, clinging to your toys. Enjoy the few remaining solar rotations before we come there to live …

    Sincerely,
    Second-Rate 1960s Sci-Fi Aliens
    The Planet Antheon

  65. Marry the vampire/fuck the werewolf.

    Where have we seen this meme before?

    Oh yeah the Twilight series.

    Written by a Mormon mom who claims she doesn’t drink, smoke, or whatever.

  66. Ugh

    You did very well in your answers to the opening salvo of ‘fitness tests” here. Us testing you in our masculine way. Good job.

    Also thanks for telling us your frame, about who you are for the context of your questions. Good job there too.

    I take back the masculine comment. You look feminine. Your opening comment didn’t sound feminine. Umm, Sorry?

    “That is what I am currently figuring out. Humor, intelligence and dependability come to mind.”

    You might have to settle for two out of three. The guys you want to be with, lets call them Alpha Males, are not necessarily known for their dependability. Do you know why that is?

    “…. the GAP in the Red Pill mindset aka women who are financially and, to a degree, socially independent and thus don’t adhere to a hypergamous script. These are women, like me, who still want men in their lives for sex and companionship, but are not following a hypergamous script to achieve that.

    What you are trying to say is: Women like you don’t need a Beta Male provider (Beta Bucks). You still want a dependable masculine Alpha male to be with. And you want a good one that is dependable (as an Alpha Fucks). You still are adhering to a Hypergamous script as far as what you want. Casual sex. You still want an apex, prime, good genes, attractive man. You still have to attract him to give you what you want. There is competition for those men.

    Do you also want him to share parenting skills for your children?

    Do you want a long term relationship? Were any of the four men you dated this summer candidates for a long term relationship? Why not?

  67. Ugh,

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/13/the-hypergamy-conspiracy/

    Commenter Escoffier in that linked essay:

    “I don’t think that’s right.

    The theory is more like this, from what I have read. Hypergamy is a woman’s natural (which is to say, genetically wired) preference for a higher status male–that is, higher status than herself and also higher status than the other men in her field of vision and also perhaps higher status than men she has known in the past and even (at the extremes) higher status than most men she can personally imagine meeting. That cuts across a range of possible relationships, all the way from a ONS to marriage. In all cases, women naturally prefer the highest status man they can get. And sometimes they want so much status that they won’t settle on ANY man they could actually get.

    “Status” has a varied meaning in this definition. Certain things correllate with high status, for intance money, prestige, social standing, etc. However a man can have all of that and still be low status because of low status intrapersonal behavior (i.e., needy schlumpitude). The highest possible status male would be rich, good looking, fit, well dressed, high social cache, high prestige job (preferably one which involves risk, physical risk being better than mere monetary risk), and also extroverted, dominant, the leader of his group of friends, able to command any social situation, and so on. However, women are wired to be turned on more by the latter BEHAVORIAL traits than by be the former SUBSTANTIVE traits. So, if you have have to choose one or the other, to get women, be socially dominant and a broke societal loser rather than socially awkward and a rich societal winner. But best to be both, if possible.

    As to marriage, sure women want to marry up. But this does not exhaust the effects of hypergamy. Women can marry up–both intrinsically and in their own mind–and still ditch their catch because someone “better” comes along. That is hypergamy at work.

    Also, when women are pursuing short and medium term mating, hypergamy has no less force. They always prefer the most socially dominant male they can get. This is often relative (A&B are both a little dweeby but A is more alpha than B and since I want someone NOW I choose A) but sometimes it is more intrinsic (A&B are both a little dweeby and even though A is a little more alpha, since I don’t have to have someone NOW, I am going to hold out for the Real Deal).

    It’s not all about marriage. It’s about mate selection accross the range of circumstances.

    That, at any rate, is how I believe the manosphere understands “hypergamy.””

  68. …Fuck the werewolf”
    Interesting that one prominent pop culture werewolf — Lawrence Talbot, as played by Lon Chaney Jr. in the 1940s Wolfman flicks — was a chumpy good-guy beta aghast at what he would do under the spell of the moon.

    Of course the sexual context was kept somewhat buried. He would just try to chomp on Evelyn Ankers or Ilona Massey, not seduce them.

    https://youtu.be/Fto1MSXioSc

  69. @Ugh, I’d say some women choose careers as beta male replacements. As successful as your career may be, and as many benefits that it offers you, it, too, will leave a gap in your happiness and relationship success, just like a beta male would.

    I don’t think Rollo talking about that big gaping hole in red pill philosophy will make you happy either. I checked out your Instagram photos. I see you have some with you smiling and some with the unhappy “hard” look. You chose the hard, unhappy photo as your lead pic. To me this is telling. That picture says, “I’m unhappy,” “stay back,” “what you looking at?” You could have lead with your smiling pics, but you didn’t. In my opinion, if you find out why you did that, you may red pill yourself better than any red pill hole that Rollo addressing could do.

  70. @Ugh, the biological realities of hypergamy don’t change even as the society around us does. Studies and articles, for the most part, demonstrate:

    1) Women generally detest dating or marrying down (not always consciously). They strongly prefer to date and marry across and up from their educational/economic status. As women reach educational and economic parity with men, one side of the dual mating strategy – to find a good “vampire” – becomes harder and harder to fulfill. Hence the trope about late 30’s/early 40’s career driven women alone with cats. Sadly, these women, who have achieved so much (career, education credentials, economic self sufficiency), are less happy then their mother’s generation. Dating and sex may be fine through the early 40’s but ultimately, a sense of being empty and unfulfilled pervades. As a black woman, this pain is more likely even more pronounced for you, as so many black males are lost and adrift.
    2) Marriages with a female breadwinner are more likely to end in divorce; women don’t like it and neither do the men (you have your own experience which serves as an exhibit). Again, not everything is at he conscious level. But stats don’t lie.

    No judgment. Hypergamy just is.

    And yes, when Rollo refers to the “sisterhood uber alles” he is referring to the in group preference women have for each other – FIVE TIMES stronger than it is for men. Think about that.

  71. O.B.I.T.
    Lawrence Talbot, as played by Lon Chaney Jr. in the 1940s Wolfman flicks

    Right in the middle of the Hollywood Code years, so of course tame. The Code was adopted in 1934 if I remember right and didn’t fade until the end of the studio era in the 1960’s.

    Pre-Code cartoons and movies made before 1934 show not just more skin, but more accurate Red Pill truth.

    Hah. Perhaps you partly answered my question from the first comment.

  72. “…. this pain is more likely even more pronounced for you, as so many black males are lost and adrift….”

    … gotta find a few minutes.

  73. “The Code was adopted in 1934 if I remember right . . .”

    Maureen O’Sullivan believed the commission was formed just to ban this scene:

  74. kfg
    Maureen O’Sullivan believed the commission was formed just to ban this scene:

    She was probably right. Although there were others..

  75. Don’t forget Mae West!

    Highlights of the code I believe included a rule that in any man-woman scene, at least two of the four feet had to be firmly on the floor. And that evildoers had to be punished — you could never have an ending where the bad guy got away.

    Still there were a few 40s flicks — Double Indemnity, Three Strangers — where women were bad bad trouble. Ingrid Bergman is an interesting pivot point in Casablanca and check out the triangle — Bette Davis, Claude Rains and Paul Henreid (again!) in Deception.

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