Primordial Archetypes

This morning I was made aware of another example of open Hypergamy. A Russian Alpha Widow admitted to her duplicity in switching her Beta husband’s sperm with that of her ex lover’s in her IVF insemination. Now, at the risk of throwing red meat to the wolves here, I wanted to dissect this situation a bit to explain a larger concept I’ve been considering lately. It would be enough to use this situation as one more example of women’s prime directive – Hypergamy before all else – but, there’s more involved here that illustrates the sociological reach that Hypergamy has for women.

You see, Yana Anokhina, 38, couldn’t have pulled off her deception of Maxim Anokhin without enlisting the aid of Dr. Liya Kazaryan and her staff in swapping out his sperm for that of Yana’s former lover; the Alpha for whom she was widowed’. I’m not entirely sure that her former lover (now her current relationship) was aware of the swap, but there’s no question about Yana’s motives.

Ms Anokhina has not spoken about the swap but reports say she wanted the father of her baby to be the man she loved – not her husband.

‘It was found out during the investigation in court that Maxim’s wife Yana was the one who initiated the process of replacing her husband’s biological material,’ reported Vesti.

‘Allegedly, she wanted to give birth to a child by a man with whom she was in love, and her husband was the one who paid the costs.’

So this isn’t just as simple as she got knocked up by her Alpha lover and tricked her Beta husband into believing the inseminated sperm was his own. She had to actually go to the trouble of collecting two samples of sperm, convincing the IVF clinic’s doctor and staff into making the swap (and then withholding the truth from the father) and then carrying the pregnancy to term and keeping her husband ignorant of the ruse for a year. This may seem like the deviousness of a particular woman, but remember, she had to enlist the confidence of Dr. Kazaryan and other clinicians (I presume also female).

And she does all this with a laugh.

I’ve written quite a bit on what I call the Sisterhood Über Alles and this is one more example of how that collective female consciousness intuitively understands and both consciously and unconsciously promotes the interests of the Feminine Imperative – even for unfamiliar, anonymous women.

Now you might say, “Well Rollo, this is just one horrible example of a few women who got in cahoots to deceive a hapless Beta chump. Not all women are like this.” Or I’m sure the more morally conscious of ‘red pill women’ would simply point out that they would never do such a thing and convince us that ‘quality women’ regularly police their own Hypergamous impulses – these Russian women just lack their moral superiority. Well, be that as it may, it’s not too difficult to find online forums dedicated to women collaborating with other women in order to trick a man into marrying a woman via false pregnancy claims. In fact there’s a lucrative black market for positive pregnancy tests sold to women wanting to press their boyfriends into a marriage commitment by way of a false-positive pregnancy scare.

The fact behind all this still remains – women evolved for a subconscious, collective duplicity when it comes to optimizing on Hypergamy.

We can see this in popular culture; a culture defined by the Feminine Imperative now. Dalrock once said we have replaced the monogamous marriage model of child rearing with the child support model of child rearing today. I believe he’s right, but how is that child support model effected today and how doe it align with women’s evolved, instinctual predilections?

Humankind evolved from small tribal collectives, but in each collective there were commonalities of behaviors that developed similarly to solve various personal and collective (tribal) problems. For instance, an instinctive (unlearned) fear of snakes or spiders in women is an evolved part of humankind’s collective mental firmware. A small boys natural propensity to throw an object with strength and accuracy might be another example.

How women interact today in what I call the Sisterhood is a gestalt of the various instinctive behaviors that the women of our tribal ancestors developed to aid them in collective support as well as ensuring long-term security in reproduction. In other words, women evolved to do exactly what Dr. Kazaryan did, and so many other women in various “trick him into marrying you” forums do, to enable another woman’s sexual strategy. From an evolutionary perspective it follows that women who aided their ‘sisters’ in Hypergamy would themselves be aided and insure that this archetypal behavior became a characteristic of women’s collectivist nature.

I once watched a video of some daytime women’s talk show that centered on how women could justifiably trap a man into commitment by essentially lying to him about a faked pregnancy. I apologize for not having a link to it here, but while I was looking for it on YouTube I was inundated with videos of shows on this topic – I literally couldn’t find the one I was thinking of because there were so many returns. Watching this show I was hit by just how many women in the audience rallied behind the women doing the ‘trapping’ and the myriad justifications offered to allay any feelings of guilt, remorse or doubts about having a child.

This is particularly emphasized if the ‘father’ in question fulfills an ideal of women’s collective Hypergamy. To the collective hivemind of women, a woman is, by nature, entitled to a child with the most perfect father (high SMV) she can attract. Remember, shows and online forums like this are only small representative examples of that global Hypergamous archetypal expectation and the support women offer each other to optimize Hypergamy. I’ve stated before the the Sisterhood Über Alles (above all) transcends all considerations of tribe, race, religion and even political stripe. All women are part of ‘team woman‘ before any other affiliation; this is how the Feminine Imperative has remained a social influence since our hunter/gatherer beginnings. As we’ve progressed from small tribalist beginnings to larger collectives, to nations and now to globalism, this female collectivism has expanded to encompass the totality of womankind.

Love Me Vampire, Fuck Me Werewolf

Anyone who’s been reading my work for a while is probably scratching their heads as to why I’m referring to the concept of ‘archetypes’ here. As most of my readers know, I’ve never been a fan of Carl Jung. I’ve written about why this is a few times and I’ll probably write a more comprehensive essay about it in the coming year, but suffice to say that while Jung might be synonymous with the new agey metaphysical concept of archetypes, it was from anthropology that he lifted the term and that’s the basic reference I’m using here. That said, I don’t necessarily disagree with Jungian archetypes, it’s at the point where the concept takes on metaphysical aspects that I part ways with them.

However, the idea of archetypes is necessary to explain the last bit of the puzzle here, because it’s my belief that a primordial understanding of Hypergamy is part of our collective consciousness and unconsciousness. I say collective consciousness because since the time of the Sexual Revolution our global understanding of intersexual dynamics has become part of our social discourse. When I refer to something like Open Hypergamy I’m talking about the almost triumphant, open embrace of women’s sexual strategy. The generations that came after the Sexual Revolution scarcely remember that there was a time when intersexual truths we take for granted now weren’t something that was discussed in polite conversation. Hypergamy, while unconsciously understood, was secretive. A woman who other women called a ‘gold digger’ was disparaged by women not on moral grounds, but rather because she was open about the sexual strategy all women employ and they’d rather be kept secret so as to use it effectively.

In 2018 it’s almost quaint to think that women would be coy about Hypergamy. With the advent of the internet it became impossible for women to keep Hypergamy concealed, and really, why would they care to in an age when the necessary provisioning-side of Hypergamy is veritably insured? But it wasn’t always so obvious. Up until the mid 1960s the understanding of Hypergamy was an unconscious knowledge. Certainly it was discussed and written about by men contemplating the duplicitous nature of women. Ancient religious texts are rife with proverbs warning against the nature of women, so the basics of Hypergamy were something our tribal ancestors we’re well aware of.

I received this Tweet from a reader a few days ago:

This guy’s ‘revelation’ prompted me to consider the primordial understanding we have of Hypergamy. I’ve read dozens of articles by, and listened to dozens more interviews of, ‘popular psychologists’ who explain the commonalities of our classic human stories and myths. I got into this topic in Storytelling. The basic premise is that our common evolution has led to common themes in all human stories. The same elements and the same character archetypes pursue the same motives from culture to culture. Yet all of these commonalities are centered on similar aspects of our evolved mental firmware. The hero, the villain, good vs. evil, the wise old sage, the beautiful damsel to be saved, ect. are all founded on common human development. They are semi-conscious expressions of what our evolution has embedded in our mental firmware.

Now, what if I told you that the reality of women’s Hypergamous nature is also a part of that collective consciousness?

My theory is this: human beings have an innate understanding of the Alpha Seed – Beta Need nature of intersexual dynamics. On some level of consciousness we know, we feel, that it’s true, how it functions and why does. As a result, social institutions (religion and familial) created moral strictures around this unconscious knowledge to buffer against the worst effects of it on society. Only after the Sexual Revolution and men ceding virtually unilateral control of Hypergamy to women did these strictures change.

The concepts of men who represent Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks are similarly part of this instinctual understanding of Hypergamy. These too are archetypes, but more so, they form the basis of more complex male archetypes (love me Vampire, fuck me Werewolf). They are the men women want to fuck and the men women want to be provided for by. And we can trace the root of these archetypes through our evolution and even the evolution of other primates. These Hypergamous archetypes then manifest themselves in our era-specific, cultural specific, stories, narratives, mythology, etc.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

632 comments on “Primordial Archetypes

  1. An essay compares J.D. Salinger to Harvey Weinstein because he dumped a woman.

    “In the spring of 1972, … a letter from J.D. Salinger … offered his admiration, friendship, mentorship and spiritual guidance — and … urged me to leave college, come live with him. …
    I gave up my scholarship and dropped out of Yale, cut off communication with my friends and moved … Seven months later, … he put two $50 bills in my hand and instructed me to return.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/books/review/joyce-maynard-at-home-in-the-world.html

  2. I was busy yesterday evening and did not get a chance to respond to everyone’s replies. Will try to do it throughout the day as I have time.

    @SJF — No, I don’t expect the men I’m involved with to step in and be a father figure to my kids. There is actually a clause in my divorce agreement barring men from meeting my children for the first full year of our relationship.

    My children have a dad and a biological father is irreplaceable. He is active in their lives. One of my primary objectives throughout my divorce process was to ensure the bond between my children and their father would not be broken.

    I have already begun research on blended families in preparation for my next marriage (if I choose to marry again, not a given…) and I would see my new partner more as a safe/reliable adult in my children’s lives. But me and their father bear the financial brunt of raising them, and are responsible for providing them a solid mental/emotional foundation. I would not pawn that off on someone else. Another issue I take with a lot of Red Pill stuff. Not all women are looking for some unsuspecting dude to spring a whole new family on.

    Likewise, if I partnered with a man who already had children I would not want or expect to take a maternal role for his children.

    Re: Long term relationship — Honestly that is how I found the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere. It was precisely in asking myself this question ‘do I want another LTR’. I was looking at research about second marriages and found Rich Cooper’s video about why men should never marry single moms. And while I obviously took offense to a lot of it, I also saw a lot of truth in it. That is how I went down the manosphere rabbit hole and actually found some pretty sensical analyses of the pitfalls of LTRs/marriage given our current court system. Because I am financially independent I carry risk going into marriage. I actually owed my ex husband spousal support because our earning was so disparate. I managed to strike a deal canceling his child support in exchange for not paying spousal. So a lot of the fears you men have about ‘losing half’, I do to.

    The men I dated this summer were just to dip my toe in the water. I have not been on the dating scene in more than 10 years. It has changed a lot. I do a lot of research about relationships because I want to be more informed this go round. I don’t just read stuff I resonate with. For every article I read in the Atlantic I like to balance with something in the MGTOW/Red Pill sphere. There is truth in both, I find.

  3. “I have already begun research on blended families in preparation for my next marriage . . .”

    Anti-unicorn open hypergamy on crack.

  4. UGH

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnCzJQAUGEs&app=desktop

    The men I dated this summer were just to dip my toe in the water.

    And get weed. Don’t forget the weed…

    I actually owed my ex husband spousal support because our earning was so disparate. I managed to strike a deal canceling his child support in exchange for not paying spousal.

    Wow that’s a hell of a deal! You ignore paying your equitable share to him by not sticking your gun down his throat.

    So sweet! And you can feel virtuous about it… while cynically eyeing your future prospects up.

    Tell us sweetie… How keen on you signing a prenup if you do meet that Big Baller with the ass fetish? Or is that “unfair”?

  5. @Ugh:

    Looks like you’ve got it all figured out. Why the hell are you here ranting? Why don’t you go on and live your “strong and independent” life.

    It appears that you are not having much success finding a man to marry and are being used as a pump and dump. If you had men lining up, you would not be looking up RED PILL and MGTOW content.

    PS: Looked at your THIRSTAGRAM profile. Hate to bring it to your attention, but you are no unicorn. Just another run of mill “single mommy”. Just because you make some money doing dumb stuff does not make you are unicorn. Congratulations, you will see TRUE EQUALITY and get the “privilege” to live like a man, by being invisible and paying for your own shit.

  6. Congratulations, you will see TRUE EQUALITY and get the “privilege” to live like a man, by being invisible and paying for your own shit.

    we ll she gets to do so without paying the spousal support… so there’s that perk…

  7. “I managed to strike a deal canceling his child support in exchange for not paying spousal.”

    The truth comes out. So much for that Brownie Point.

  8. @Incubus_Rising I ended all my summer relationships. I was not dumped once. I have no issue taking care of myself and my children financially.

    @Sentient Oh how the tables turn. If my ex was a woman demanding spousal support from a man I guarantee you would not be talking about his “equitable share”.

    Yes I would want a prenup no matter what the financial status of a future partner. Because not all women see marriage as a financial come up. Because when you have true access to economic power you don’t have to use personal relationships as a bank account.

    I was going to go through and respond to other things people said but I don’t have the time. The comments are getting nastier and I came here for dialogue. Not to be berated by a bunch of keyboard thugs who wouldn’t dare show their face although I showed mine.

    This idea that the answer is for women to revert to traditional (supposedly biological) roles in marriage to be “happy” is at odds with so many things.

    1. An increasing number of women are choosing a child free life and exploring their identities outside of motherhood.
    2. An increasing number of women are becoming educated and getting access to professional and economic power.

    It seems many of you want it both ways.

    You want to scream “gold digger and hypergamy” when a woman uses personal relationships for financial advancement.

    And then scream “cat lady and the wall” when women are financially independent and don’t have to use personal relationships for financial advancement.

    There is a persistent anger and fundamental confusion in this sphere.

  9. I cringe every time I hear a woman say I am “too picky”!

    “If a woman is single past a certain age, society heaps all the blame – for blame is what it insists on heaping – on her. The birth rate is said to be falling not because many men don’t want to commit but because women are too busy or too picky or too high-powered and put off having children.”

    proper title for the article should have been:

    The hidden, horrifying costs of hitting the Wall!”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/05/hidden-costs-being-single?CMP=fb_gu

  10. One of my primary objectives throughout my divorce process was to ensure the bond between my children and their father would not be broken.

    Bull. You would not submit to him (save for impregnation); why should they? You know very well the lesson you taught: he’s not worth it.

    You went shopping this summer and were disappointed in the goods; now you’re shopping on-line. Women’s empowerment = the right to quality goods regardless of the coin offered (if any) coupled (!) with a double-yer-money-back-guarantee regardless of how long you’ve had the goods nor how much wear-and-tear.

    Godspeed.

  11. Ugh

    The comments are getting nastier and I came here for dialogue.

    Translation – my feelz are hurt by this cogdis…

    who wouldn’t dare show their face although I showed mine.

    Well most of us aren’t in the market for new dick…

    1. An increasing number of women are choosing a child free life and exploring their identities outside of motherhood

    with cats… careful about the word choice though… choosing…

    2. An increasing number of women are becoming educated and getting access to professional and economic power.

    and infertility…

    It seems many of you want it both ways.

    Hey I didn’t “liberate” my vagina and then go looking for a replacement dick… seems the order of fried ice is to your table. That’s the party of one…

  12. @Blaximus — You salute your brother in law for having the entire destiny of his wife and their children in his hands. Isn’t half of this Red Pill stuff bitching about having that level of responsibility?! About pushing back against women’s infantile needs to be taken care of? And so if all women are hypergamous how is he keeping his wife in line? By keeping her in the house? Turning off the internet? Pulling the shades so she can’t interact with the gardner and mailman?? It sounds like a nightmare.

    Re: women not knowing what it is to be a man and make it in the world.

    This whole idea is problematic.

    Women make up a bit more than 50% of the world’s population. You don’t think that there are opportunities for commerce and advancement in that? Many of the women who become self-made billionaires (think Oprah, the Kardashians, and the chick who invented Spanx) don’t do so by dominating traditionally male industries. They do it be dominating female spaces.

    So you might be right to say that an accomplished woman doesn’t know what it is to be a man fighting and pushing *in a male sphere*. But any woman who has succeeded knows exactly what it is to be dominant in a female sphere. And money is not a gendered thing whether you earn it by dominating a male or female sphere.

    In terms of women looking for “the better deal”. I completely agree that we as women are biologically driven (because of childbirth) and socially driven to get the best that we can. But I disagree with the notion that the power of hypergamy can and will break any bond. Humans are different than animals because we have the capacity for higher thought and are not slaves to our impulses.

    The idea of hypergamy flies in the face of long term marriage and relationships. Rollo himself — who has been married for more than 15 years — would have to admit that. Throughout the course of a 40 or 50 year marriage I would imagine the man and woman might have many opportunities to “trade up”. They can follow that impulse and break a bond or they can be human and have the unique ability for long term thinking and delayed gratification.

    Rollo says all the time that his wife is hot. Then why hasn’t she gotten a “better deal”? He’s a successful guy, sure, but I am sure that he isn’t the most successful man she has ever come across. Why has she made a choice to stay despite her hypergamous instinct? Because love and commitment and higher thinking are what separates us from animals.

  13. “There is a persistent anger and fundamental confusion in this sphere.”

    We call it clarity and pragmatism.

    “Not to be berated by a bunch of keyboard thugs who wouldn’t dare show their face although I showed mine.”

    The only thugs you know are the one you married and the ones you spread your legs for. Men don’t need to show their face, because we are not here to seek attention for our looks or money. We will thrash you with our ideas. And you are butt hurt because no one here is white knighting for a post wall deranged “single mommy”.

    Go back to your cats and your future delinquent brats. Enjoy the rest of your life anal waxing and anal bleaching your “single mommy” sisters, just remember to keep saying “I am strong and independent” while doing it.

  14. @SJB — I am actually not dating currently. And I was not disappointed by most of the men I dated this summer. Many were good quality guys I had good times with. I was up front with them about my lack of ability/desire for a serious relationship at this time. They all (except for one) were understanding of this.

    I have always been inquisitive. I have never been afraid to go into unfamiliar or unwelcoming intellectual spaces. Part of the reason I subject myself to discussions like this is to sniff out and challenge my own biases.

    I wish these discussions could be had without insults being thrown because I do find value in the (respectful) pushback although I understand that a hallmark of this space is the idea that women are fundamentally undeserving of respect.

  15. “Because love and commitment and higher thinking are what separates us from animals.”

    Then why didn’t you work it out with your ex, you filthy animal?

  16. They can follow that impulse and break a bond or they can be human and have the unique ability for long term thinking and delayed gratification.

    In your case “long term thinking” was seven years… “Liberate” that vagina yo!

  17. “Isn’t half of this Red Pill stuff bitching about having that level of responsibility?!”

    Q.E.D.

    Why am I suddenly thinking of Nathan Poe?

  18. @Incubus_Rising — Why would I choose a space like this to find a man? I am not here for that and I don’t need to be white knighted.

    I’m assuming you are referring to the men I have dealt with as “thugs” because you assume they are all black and my children as “delinquent brats” because they are black also.

    So, you’re racist. Good for you.

    I don’t hurl insults at people I don’t know the identity of. I think it’s childish and cowardly.

  19. @Ugh

    “In terms of women looking for “the better deal”. I completely agree that we as women are biologically driven (because of childbirth) ”

    If you agree with this then also consider the fact that men are biologically driven to be aroused by young fertile women to which they are prone to invest time and resources!

  20. @Incubus_Rising — A reconciliation is not off the table. Especially since there was no abuse or infidelity leading to the end of the marriage. It is something we are discussing but would need a better handle on gender roles and expectations given economic imbalance (another reason I frequent Red Pill spaces, one of the few places gender differences are discussed in a meaningful way although I don’t always agree.)

    I’m a filthy animal because I’m a black woman? I don’t do passive aggressive racism. Don’t dog whistle say what you mean.

  21. ” …. a hallmark of this space is the idea that women are fundamentally undeserving of respect.”

    You don’t “deserve” nothing. Nobody “deserves” anything in life. You want something, you have to “earn” it. And women do jack shit to “earn” respect. You want respect from men, then you have to “earn” it.

    If there is one word I could erase from the dictionary, it would be “deserve”. Ironically, I never heard a man ever use this word, it is always women. Ugh !!

  22. “There is a persistent anger and fundamental confusion in this sphere.”

    Psychological projection in play. Ugh, none of the commenters that have responded to your comments are endowed with anger or fundamental confusion about what our purpose and mission is here in this space.

    Certainly I know Blaximus, myself, Sentient and KFG have no persistent anger or fundamental confusion.

    I certainly take issue with your proposal to be a Strong Independent Woman, put up a 50/50, guard your heart, money, profession and children against the possibility of a man being strong and masculine, MGTOW and having a vision of his own purpose and mission. And you not calling the shots in the relationship. Controlling everything.

    If you want it that way, you are going to have to look for a feminized weak man in order for your strategy to work the way you foresee things. Is that what you want?

    Or do you want to be feminine in the presence of a masculine man?

    Make no mistake, this blog is predominantly Red Pill. It discusses MGTOW, but not predominantly. The fact that you mention Red Pill/ MGTOW is a ‘Tell’ because at the rate you are going you are definitely going to hit a wall when it comes to getting a man that will invest in loving you. You are putting up and telegraphing quite a few barriers to having a loving, healthy relationship, or just an any kind of ongoing sexual relationship.

    (and for the record, Blaximus, myself and Sentient have been married for over 20 years. We are not angry at all. And never confused. KFG is close to MGTOW as posssible and it’s pretty impossible for him to get angry or confused. He’s old and wise. These are the people you should at least attempt to listen and understand what they are saying in regards to inter-sexual dynamics. Even if you don’t like what they are saying. They have been successful in their endeavors and have seen a lot via reference experiences. Don’t fall for all that Noise you are hearing as you peruse the typically male only space of the manosphere. Hone in on the Signal of what brought you here in the first place. You found something was not right )

    Quote from The Matrix:

    Morpheus: I imagine that right now, you’re feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

    Neo: You could say that.

    Morpheus: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that’s not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?

    Neo: No.

    Morpheus: Why not?

    Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life.

    Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I’m talking about?

    Neo: The Matrix.

    Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?

    Neo: Yes.

    Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work… when you go to church… when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

    Neo: What truth?

    Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

  23. @Orson — I never took issue with that. Check my comments.

    @Palmasailor — So Oprah is going nuts? Jennifer Aniston? Helen Mirren? My many aunts who are child free in their 60s and have wads of disposable income?

    Again I don’t get it.

    Women want kids: Stay away from her she has baby rabies!
    Women don’t want kids: She is a cat lady who is going to die miserable.

    You complain about the status quo in one breath and defend it with the next.

  24. “A reconciliation is not off the table. Especially since there was no abuse or infidelity leading to the end of the marriage.”

    Anti-unicorn open hypergamy on crack, with a Benzedrine chaser.

  25. @Ugh:

    Who used the word “keyboard thugs” first, you dim witted moron? If you can’t handle the heat, then don’t start the fire.

    And yes, only thugs stick their dicks in “single mommies” and statistically children of “single mommies” turn out to be thugs. And stating these facts does not making me a racist.

  26. Lol. The sphere is.a.Very angry place. Not 100% anger and fury, but a low humming persistent hum of seething.

    Ya get used to it.

  27. A reconciliation is not off the table. Especially since there was no abuse or infidelity leading to the end of the marriage. It is something we are discussing

    Translation – “I took a picture of my ass, posted it to Tinder and could only get guys i didn’t want. And weed. Can’t forget the weed. I didn’t “liberate” my vagina for this…”

  28. “I understand that a hallmark of this space is the idea that women are fundamentally undeserving of respect.”

    That’s a Bull-Shit Insult. You just made that up out of thick air.

    Now excuse me while I go golf in 98 Heat Index weather with my attractive wife who I very much respect in regards to her golf game and socializing skill at the country club.

  29. “You complain about the status quo in one breath and defend it with the next.”

    Why do you say “it’s 2018,” but talk about the “status quo” as if it were 1818?

  30. @SJF — Again there is a contradiction. My fiscal responsibility is being interpreted by you as putting up a block. So I need to give up my career to be loved fully by a man?? Isn’t that the same kind of hypergamy you claim to detest? A woman who would give up her ability to care for herself and dump all of that responsibility on a man?

    Again, both resenting and defending the status quo.

    Yes there is a lot of anger towards me in this very comment box. I was called a filthy animal and my children delinquent brats.

    What do you call that?

  31. “Yes there is a lot of anger towards me in this very comment box. I was called a filthy animal and my children delinquent brats.

    What do you call that?”

    The voices in your head.

  32. So Oprah is going nuts? Jennifer Aniston? Helen Mirren?

    THIS should be in your stand up routine… Three for three, and the irony is lost…

  33. ” …. a hallmark of this space is the idea that women are fundamentally undeserving of respect.”

    No, I read the message here as, Respect and enjoy women for what they are, but don’t fool yourself about what they aren’t. And men can be good at fooling themselves.

    Yes there are always social changes, but while they can mask or frustrate biological imperatives they do not negate them — or the behavior patterns they often generate.

  34. Ugh, I see a lot of similarities between you and my wife with regard to your perspective of “TRP”. (I had written understanding instead of perspective, but the truth is that both you and my wife misunderstand what is being communicated, rather than understand it.)

    No one here is trying to insult you (at least not in response to your first post). We are trying to explain that you have not fully understood what you have read and heard. It is only when you push back and tell us that we are wrong, because your perspective differs from our explanations, that some here will resort to name-calling and insults, mostly to ridicule you for taking an untenable stand on something you clearly know precious little about just yet.

    You see, there is another, more likely explanation. Could it be that we are more accurately explaining Red Pill concepts and (more importantly) their implications to you in your current circumstances than you have come to believe?

    Here is just one example of something you really got backwards;

    “The idea of hypergamy flies in the face of long term marriage and relationships.”

    What Rollo says, and the manosphere embraces, and MGTOWs bemoan is actually this:

    “The idea of long term marriage and relationships fly in the face of Hypergamy”

    This is a central tenet to MRP or any LTR. If a man is going to choose this path, then he had better be ready with tight game, unruffled responses to persistent shit tests, a central, core, personal reason that matters to himself as to why he has chosen that path, and, as Blax said, 6-inch thick skin so as to maintain a ZFG perspective WRT to the opinions of others.

    My suggestion is to ignore the inflammatory responses you read, and when you get constructive criticism and/or corrective feedback to your assertions regarding TRP and LTRs, pursue the line of discussion with an open mind and resist the temptations to respond out of defensiveness for your current perspective. We will all learn from an exchange like that.

  35. @kfg — What about addressing the core of my comment? As men, do you want your women to ‘put their outcomes in your hands’ or not? I am not understanding.

    Still waiting for someone to answer why Rollo is preaching hypergamous female nature while remaining married. Isn’t divorce the logical outcome of his marriage? Or worse, him being eventually married to an old woman with no SMV?

    @Blaximus — Yes very angry but I don’t scare easily.

    @SJF — Good for you.

    @Sentient — Interesting that what has never come up is why the marriage ended. Towards the end of our marriage my ex had been unemployed for multiple years with no intention of finding work. He was lost in life and depressed. We had been in counseling for several years and nothing help. We tried a trial separation first and things didn’t improve. I asked for a divorce. I took on all financial responsibility for our children and aided him in getting back on his feet — albeit from a very far distance. He did most of the work himself. Now he is getting his life back on track.

    I still love him dearly which is why I suspect I have not had the emotional capacity to start up a serious relationship with someone new. It is why I am not dating currently. The irony we have discussed is how it took our marriage ending for him to ‘find his own way.’

    Part of the reason some Red Pill philosophy appeals is that I see now that I did not affirm his masculinity enough in our marriage. As I have mentioned repeatedly in comments before this is a dilemma for many female breadwinner households. This is a fairly new phenomenon. I have faith that there are ways to make room for and affirm masculinity and male leadership within a marriage despite who is earning what.

    And that’s the thing. According to hypergamy I should have been jumping up and down at the chance to free myself for higher earning men. Well I date higher earning, taller and more attractive men this summer and could not muster the energy for something serious. Because love is the opposite of hypergamy. It breaks that rule and I still have a lot of love for my ex.

  36. Here’s another good one that you misunderstood.

    Ugh – “Because love and commitment and higher thinking are what separates us from animals.”

    Incubus – “Then why didn’t you work it out with your ex, you filthy animal?”

    Ugh – “I’m a filthy animal because I’m a black woman? I don’t do passive aggressive racism. Don’t dog whistle say what you mean.”

    What he meant was that love and commitment are clearly NOT enough to overcome hypergamy (at least in your case). Otherwise why didn’t you avail yourself of that “human” advantage? Certainly it would have been in the better (best?) interests of your children, no?

    Personally I think it would have been more effective irony if Incubus had left out “filthy”, but my sense of that was just his emphasis that there really isn’t any separation between “us” and animals – clean or filthy.

  37. From Rich Cooper’s Twitter:

    “50+, divorced, single mother, and a professional escort… cries because she is also a life coach, but can’t find a good man. The conversation with her cat at the end closes this case.

    Yes, women can be this blind.”

  38. @Ugh
    No, Rollo is the one sounding the warning bell to other men who are not so grounded in reality. Hypergamy and a happy long-term relationship are not mutually exclusive, but an understanding of hypergamy can help sustain that relationship.

  39. “Well I date higher earning, taller and more attractive men this summer and could not muster the energy for something serious. Because love is the opposite of hypergamy. It breaks that rule and I still have a lot of love for my ex.”

    Love me vampire, fuck me werewolf.

    No anger or hate as you think! The truth is very simple and bitter for you. Single moms are of low sexual market value. Deal with the ugly truth if you can …like the men here deal with the nasty darwinism of female hypergamy.

  40. Ugh

    He was lost in life and depressed.

    So a divorce is just the thing to cheer him up, amirite?

    We tried a trial separation first and things didn’t improve.

    Ya don’t say? [duckface]

    I took on all financial responsibility for our children and aided him in getting back on his feet — albeit from a very far distance.

    And screwing him out of his spousal support

  41. Ugh

    I have faith that there are ways to make room for and affirm masculinity and male leadership within a marriage despite who is earning what.

    enter the werewolf…

    But he can get hotter, tighter younger… You don’t cut it.

    Well I date higher earning, taller and more attractive men this summer and could not muster the energy for something serious.

    But you had Teh Sex…

  42. “What about addressing the core of my comment?”

    The core of your comments come from Bizarro World. They are all fun house mirror inversions. If you have, as you claim, gotten these ideas from actually reading the material, it is highly suggestive that you are unable to understand.

    Thus I cannot address your comments with you as the intended audience. I must instead address them to the men reading along, both currently and in the future, in order to call attention to how you are the living embodiment, and thus proof, of what Rollo has written.

    “Still waiting for someone to answer why Rollo is preaching hypergamous female nature while remaining married.”

    Because he is not a hypergamous woman. You have inverted the very question. If and when you can stop doing that, we can talk.

    “Interesting that what has never come up is why the marriage ended. Towards the end of our marriage my ex had been unemployed for multiple years with no intention of finding work.”

    So, because you are a hypergamous woman.

    “The irony we have discussed is how it took our marriage ending for him to ‘find his own way.’ ”

    So, you’re no longer the element holding him back.

    “I see now that I did not affirm his masculinity enough in our marriage.”

    So, “Mommy may I?” Might have something to do the element holding him back, although you see it in a fun house mirror.

  43. @Ugh
    “Because when you have true access to economic power you don’t have to use personal relationships as a bank account.”

    You mean you can stop living a lie and end the mooching?

    “I was going to go through and respond to other things people said but I don’t have the time. The comments are getting nastier and I came here for dialogue. Not to be berated by a bunch of keyboard thugs who wouldn’t dare show their face although I showed mine.”

    Oh puh leeze. Come off it. You damn well know why you posted photos for all to see.

    Pro dating tip for you honey:

    Don’t share that quote I copied from you at the lead of this post unless you’re strictly going after a betatized man who has no balls. Cats might make for better companionship this late in life than an angry, bored and spineless betatized male who is getting no sex unless he listens to you drone on for hours about that stressful business of yours.

    Mentioning to any man who has balls that you also fucked your ex out of spousal support won’t do you much good either. Do you see how well all your sharing has gone over here? Ever consider just paying for some male companionship? Those guys will be very grateful for your bank account and business.

    You may have had good intentions jumping into this comment thread, but you’re incredibly naive and socially not very adept in a male space. It doesn’t appear very attractive to fake acting masculine, just stick to what you were born with.

    Don’t you get by now that guys don’t give a rats ass about your career or business success? All this babbling about financial independence is putting me to sleep. Seriously, all that shit is like pouring ice cold water on a boner. I mean mentally and physically. To borrow from Fleezer, in case of an erection lasting for more than 4 hours contact Ugh.
    Tell us about your exercise routines, your diet, what you’ve read, what music you like, what are the last 5 concerts you went to, how many guys have you fucked (sexually), what genres of porn you might have interest in, what you enjoy about being feminine or your parenting values. Or really get some interest and share something naughty about yourself. Oh shit, sorry if you were just triggered.

    Starting to get the hint?

  44. This comment box exchange is taking a bit more time than I anticipated today. I have to get back to work, but (believe it or not) I did get value out of this exchange.

    A few parting thoughts.

    1. My marriage did not end because I was “looking for a better deal”. I did not so much as look at another man for a year after my marriage. Had some fun over the summer (with men who ranked higher on the hypergamy scale) but did not commit to anything serious. I believe this is because I still have love for my ex. This does not mean that us reconciling is the best idea. It has been discussed casually but the priority for both of us at the moment is to work on ourselves. If his journey of self discovery leads him away from me, so be it. But no, my divorce was not a hypergamous scheme. There was a lot of heartbreak involved.

    Which brings me to my next point…

    2. Here are some things that are stronger than hypergamy: shared history, respect for another human being, and an acknowledgement of the benefits of *healthy* long-term commitment to physical and mental health. I know women who are hypergamous in their behavior. Do you all realize how exhausting that lifestyle is? Look at any of the Housewives/sports wives franchises. Watch any episode of Keeping up with the Kardashians. Do you realize how emotionally detrimental it is to hop from relationship to relationship in search of more power, money, influence or whatever it is you seek? Many women do not choose this because they are not insane. I agree that most women, at the outset, will choose the best they can when they are young/unmarried and ready to procreate. But once they pick a partner many (not all! definitely not all!) women will accept what they have and focus on the benefits of stable partnership.

    Many women (again, not all!) would rather a stroll through Costco with a man they respect, love and are committed to rather than hopping into the Ferrari of some new hot, rich guy. A hypergamous lifestyle is exhausting. I’ve seen it play out in women around me. Trust me, not all women go for that.

    3. Many of you must have some implicit understanding of the limits of hypergamy because you yourself are married/long-term partnered with women I assume you trust and have a level of respect for. She may shit test you. You may have controls in place to keep her in line but at the end of the day humans are incredibly volatile. You commit yourself to a woman and you are just going to have to TRUST that she will commit to you. Anyone who claims to be Red Pill and is in a marriage or LTR is TRUSTING a woman to some degree. And that flies in the face of ALL women being stupid, infantile, only faithful as far as their options, etc, etc.

    4. I still believe that Red Pill philosophies haven’t reconciled their conflicting feelings towards women’s choices.

    I have witnessed hatred of women who want children, and hatred of women who don’t.
    Hatred of women who want to be financially cared for, and hatred of women who don’t.

    There are nicknames and insults for both groups. It is confusing.

    5. I also still believe that there needs to be some kind of societal reckoning with women’s increasing education, breadwinner status and access to economic power and opportunity. Women earning more money DOES NOT MEAN they want to be men. As I mentioned many women who are wealthy and self-made do so in the girliest of ways. ModCloth, Thinx and Spanx were all founded by women, are all super girly (vintage dresses, period panties and shapewear) and have all made their founders incredibly wealthy. But I don’t see these women as having male attributes. I just see them as smart women who, I imagine, still want the affection and love of a committed man. If you think the answer is that they drop their careers for a man because biologically they cannot expect partnership while having economic power we will just have to agree to disagree. I think there is a way for women like this to be partnered in a way that does not undermine the masculinity of their partner. What I’m currently trying to figure out in my own personal life.

    6. I did not post my IG on here because I was looking for a man. I did it because early on the comments seemed to suggest that I was a bitter/masculine/unattractive woman. I posted my IG to prove that I am quite girly. It was in a bid to strengthen my POV. Had nothing to do with wanting the attention of anonymous comment box people. Also, my previously career was in beauty blogging so if you search my name you will see articles written about me or where I’m quoted. I have no qualms about revealing who I am online.

    7. I read articles on this site about once a month. As I said I see truth in a lot of the stuff presented. Don’t agree with all of it, but still have a level of admiration for the work here. This was my first time commenting, I might again on future posts. All in all this was not a horrible experience.

    8. The more reasonable comments did give me something to think about. I think post-marriage I have more respect for what men have to go through to find their way in the world, and the importance of women aiding them in that instead of hindering.

  45. “According to hypergamy I should have been jumping up and down at the chance to free myself for higher earning men.”

    Higher earning men want nothing to do with your old irresponsible ass.

    “Well I date higher earning, taller and more attractive men this summer and could not muster the energy for something serious. Because love is the opposite of hypergamy. It breaks that rule and I still have a lot of love for my ex.”

    Translation: “Love me Vampire, Fuck me Werewolf” – from the art work at the beginning of this essay.

  46. Another inconsistency.

    I am being berated for divorcing my ex because he had lost his way in life.

    It is also being acknowledged that the marriage was the thing ‘holding him back’ from achieving his potential.

    So which is it? I should have stayed with him while he struggled and suffered in the marriage? Or set him free to live his best life — which he is currently doing?

    Also I did not “screw him out” of spousal support. The amount of spousal support he was due was almost equal the amount of child support he was due. We would have essentially been pushing money back and forth. We could have gone to court to argue for more spousal/child so the differences would work in our favor, but instead opted to call it a wash in favor of figuring out a co-parenting relationship. We did not want the divorce to be nasty.

    Also Rollo being married because he’s not “a hypergamous woman”. Isn’t his wife one? Aren’t your wives hypergamous? Why are you married if AWALT? If a kind of infantile hypergamy in women is biological destiny? Why are you screwing yourselves over?

  47. “My marriage did not end because I was “looking for a better deal”. ”

    But you disposed of a “bad deal.”

    ” . . . hopping into the Ferrari of some new hot, rich guy.”

    Q.E.D.

    “. . . Red Pill philosophies . . .”

    Q.E.D.

  48. “I should have stayed with him while he struggled and suffered in the marriage? Or set him free to live his best life . . .”

    There’s that “Mommy may I?” again.

  49. Also how does the ‘Love me Vampire/Fuck me Werewolf’ apply to me when I was fully divorced for more than a year before I began dating? There was no infidelity in my marriage.

    My ex has been dating as have I. The only reason reconciliation came up for both of us is that, after dating we realized there were still residual feelings there — on both sides. However I do not want him to lose his way, and if a marriage/relationship would cause that, then neither of us want it.

  50. Primus: Your divorce is evidence of your hypergamous nature.
    Secunda:I am being berated for divorcing my ex

    See what she did there, boys?

  51. @Ugh – you’re still not “getting it”

    First of all hypergamy does not equal infidelity, nor is “love is the opposite of hypergamy.”

    Infidelity and monogamy are behavioral choices that we as humans make in light of our inherent nature and chosen values. Hypergamy just (partially) informs us as to what might have led you (woman) to your chosen behavior.

    In other words, hypergamy is a description of your inherent nature, not necessarily a predictor of what you will or will not choose to do as a result of that nature. RP men study it to better understand your inherent nature, so that we can make better, more informed choices in our lives.

    “2. Here are some things that are stronger than hypergamy: shared history, respect for another human being, and an acknowledgement of the benefits of *healthy* long-term commitment to physical and mental health.”

    That is like saying “Here are some things that are stronger than gravity: inertia, the law of conservation of matter, the speed of light, and the fact that energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.”

    Gravity is not a weaker force than any of those other things. Gravity co-exists with all of them, and all of them were established in light of the existence of gravity.

    Likewise, hypergamy is not a weaker force than shared history, respect for another human being, and an acknowledgement of the benefits of *healthy* long-term commitment to physical and mental health. Those things MUST co-exist with hypergamy, whether you want them to or not!

  52. It all starts with, “I don’t need no man”, “I am a strong and independent woman”, “I want to new sexual experience”, “I want to divorce and start my Eat, Pray, Love journey” …. and then very soon they are back to:

  53. No one should stay in a marriage last a certain point. I know this from experience. Situations will vary from individual to individual, but in a majority of.cases, women.seem to pull the divorce trigger first, and they’ve usually made up their minds to do so months or years I advance.

    For men this is unfair and infuriating, and men have zero recourse except to follow the dictates of a third party/court system.

    My 2nd marriage has entered year #20. To a lot of women ( young women ) I appear demanding in marriage/relationships. I’m unmoved by that characterization. My wife is my partner, but not my equal , because she doesn’t carry a natural burden of performance. She could ” do it “, but that’s artificial.

    Women may take the lead, but deep down inside, they don’t want to do so. This doesn’t mean that she doesn’t want to strive and accomplish thinhs, but it’s best when she is lead via masculinity ( true masculinity and not masculine posing ). Lots of women protest that this notion is outdated and misogynistic and blah, blah – but biology will not be denied.

    Some.men.aren’t up to the burden, and never will be. These men are more likely to find themselves divorce raped .

    At the end of the day, in 2018, financial issues can.he a real motherfucker, but there’s much more to marital discord than just fiat currency. Women can deeply love a man without 2 nickels to run together if he at a minimum can display that he’s a masculine man that is his own mental point of origin – meaning he will do his best and take you with him. Emphasis on ” take YOU with HIM ” , and not the other way around.

    Finance is a pretty effective smoke screen.

  54. @Incubus_Rising

    God nooo….
    That was painful to watch.

    50 years old and so deluded with that infantile romanticism and the depressive neediness in her eyes…

  55. “Also Rollo being married because he’s not “a hypergamous woman”. Isn’t his wife one? Aren’t your wives hypergamous? Why are you married if AWALT? If a kind of infantile hypergamy in women is biological destiny? Why are you screwing yourselves over?”

    In Rollo’s own words, watch from marker 02:04:30

  56. Video “I need you to want me…”

    And there it is. We have effect, she doesn’t understand the cause though… The Hamster ™ will not allow that connection to be made.

  57. Here are some things that are stronger than hypergamy: shared history, respect for another human being, and an acknowledgement of the benefits of *healthy* long-term commitment to physical and mental health.

    Do you not know you are divorced?

  58. 8. The more reasonable comments did give me something to think about.

    But notice how you mostly responded to the “assholes” and didn’t respond to comments like mine. lol!

  59. So what exactly was that all about?
    A) One woman’s quest for knowledge
    B) One woman’s need to talk about herself
    C) An elaborate shit test
    D) Test drive for a new form of AI
    E) None of the above

    One thing that did strike me — she churned out a helluva lot of presentable copy in a short time, with only minimal typos or syntax errors. (Gross errors of understanding, yes, but that’s not my point).

  60. “4/10 very generous of ye”

    desperately submissive – 1 pt

    will pay well to keep me around – 1 pt

    likes weed – 1 pt

    can take a joke – 1 pt

  61. @Blaximus — I am not understanding how a woman’s professional performance is not “real” to you. From my experience women ascribe different value to professional life. I’m talking founders and entrepreneurs. They might not see starting a business as conquering new ground or dominating a space — the way a male founder might. They might see it more in terms of nurturing/cultivating an idea and leaving a legacy for their children. What makes that less ‘real’? It might be coming from a different psychological space than a man. But again the outcome — provision — is the same. It might not involve the burden of performance. But professional success can be had outside of that. Capitalism makes room for many different kinds of people to succeed in many different ways.

    Re preemptively ending LTRs after a certain time — That seems sad and as exhausting as jumping around for hypergamy. Humans throughout history have understood the value in long term commitment. Which is why 40 and 50 year marriages exist.

    Re being berated for divorcing my ex — What still hasn’t been addressed are the obvious benefits he has gained from it and how it played a crucial role in him finding his way. Another contradiction. Either the divorce was good or it was bad.

    Another contradiction is commenters defending a man (my ex) who did not provide for his children and had lost his way in life. Isn’t a central tenet of Red Pill that a man knows who he is and does self-care. None of this was happening. A debate about whether divorce was the right response is one thing but the popular Red Pill narrative of a supportive and loving husband who is dumped out of the blue does not apply to my situation. Especially given then we spent our final two years in marital counseling trying to fix our marriage.

    Re my summer relationships — I have not at all been inconsistent in my responses. I said earlier that one guy wanted more and I declined. He was a never married/no kids music producer with means and a desire for something long term. Several years older than me. According to hypergamous logic I would have jumped to someone like him. I didn’t. I have had no issue with men wanting something long term. As I mentioned things like shared history have heavy pull, which is what I am grappling with now.

  62. @O.B.I.T. — Will take your observations about my writing abilities as a compliment.

    This was about my desire to dialogue with others and challenge an ideology that I see both flaws and truth in.

    If you read through my comments there are still quite a few issues I raised that have gone unanswered.

  63. I ended all my summer relationships. I was not dumped once.

    Were they all trying to sponge off of you?

    1. An increasing number of women are choosing a child free life and exploring their identities outside of motherhood.

    2. An increasing number of women are becoming educated and getting access to professional and economic power.

    …and so we have a declining native population and the destruction of a consumer-based economy…you go gurls!

    You want to scream “gold digger and hypergamy” when a woman uses personal relationships for financial advancement.

    And then scream “cat lady and the wall” when women are financially independent and don’t have to use personal relationships for financial advancement.

    There is a persistent anger and fundamental confusion in this sphere.

    …lol…no, Cupcake, there’s no “screaming” by the mainline commenters, but there is satire about women not being satisfied with what they have…there’s no confusion about Biology.

    I do understand why you were dissatisfied with the ex.

  64. But notice how you mostly responded to the “assholes” and didn’t respond to comments like mine. lol!

    +1

    More learning taking place on this end of the screen…Even in male-dominated, online spaces, she is only attracted to the responses that are decidedly authoritative in tone, pretty much with no regard for the content. Reasonable, rational dialog just doesn’t seem to work anywhere with them, even (especially) when they are ostensibly seeking it out, unless its dominated with that tone.

  65. @theasdgamer — Most were high earners so no, they would not have had to sponge.
    As a matter of fact I will do you one better. My summer dating profile. Youngest man was 33, oldest was 45.

    Master carpenter — single dad — earning $90K a year
    Music producer — no kids, never married — financially comfortable
    TV producer — no kids, divorced in early 20s — financially comfortable
    Web developer — no kids, divorced in late 20s — not well off
    Also before the summer I dated an entrepreneur — divorced, single dad — extremely well off

    I’m in NYC so the wages are higher and there are lots of men who are in finance/entertainment so that skews things higher.

    I notice that quite a few men here actually prefer to date a self-sufficient women to avoid those who would take advantage of them financially. Also, from my conversations many have dated or do date single mothers as (their words, not mine) they understand that past a certain age for women it increases in likelihood. Some dated really young women (20s) in addition to women in their 30s, but most said they preferred women in their 30s again because of the self-sufficiency factor. They were looking for women they would not have to carry through life, but who could be good partners while also taking care of themselves.

    I do agree with your comment that women are not satisfied with what they have. I do think this idea that women can ‘have it all’ is BS and has been pushed by feminism in a major way. And honestly it is destructive. I do think that feminism diminishes the incredible satisfaction that can come from having a healthy, stable home life. I have always acknowledged that, and if you check an earlier comment I made I mentioned that many women would prefer strolling through Costco with a man they love and trust, than hopping to a man higher up on the hypergamy scale.

  66. I have consistently responded to Blaximus — the most respectful person I have interacted with on here. As well as kpg — who started out with a respectful tone. I responded to O.B.I.T. as well. Look through my comments, I @ a variety of people and respond to them.

    I have deliberately ignored the comments judging me on a scale, or giving ‘tips’ to make me more bangable because — as I said in a previous comment — I didn’t come here for that. It’s irrelevant to the dialogue I am trying to have. So your logic doesn’t follow. I would have responded to those guys if I was only paying attention to the @$$holes.

    I said it in a previous comment and I will say it again. Insulting someone anonymously is the epitome of cowardice and childishness. All of my comments have been made without insults.

  67. “If you read through my comments there are still quite a few issues I raised that have gone unanswered.”

    Mr. Blaximus will be with you shortly for an in-depth analysis. Or you can see Mr. Fleezer over on the express line.

  68. Marelius

    This is why Game ( not pua ) is crucial. It’s possible to garner a woman’s attention and get through to her simultaneously, but Game dictates that one understands to whom he’s speaking, and how to best communicate with that person.

    Women.don’t ” hear ” exactly the way men do, nor is the bulk of their communication done the same way.

    Much of the ” communication gap ” would be resolved by just recognizing this.

  69. “kpg — who started out with a respectful tone.”

    But with whom you didn’t enter a dialogue until he performed the social experiment of making his pointy stick extra pointy and jabbing you relentlessly with it. I would have preferred to remain more respectful, but you weren’t having any of it.

    The point goes to O.B.I.T.

  70. “It’s possible to garner a woman’s attention and get through to her simultaneously, but Game dictates that one understands to whom he’s speaking, and how to best communicate with that person.”

    Q.E.D.

  71. Blaximus,

    Thanks for the feedback. I think I have been pretty successful at recognizing that and adapting my game to “how” they hear in their natural habitat, where I have subcomm signals available as inputs.

    I guess I just assumed that here, without the benefit of those subcomms, and where we are not talking, but writing and reading, the message would be processed by with a more logical, left-brain bias. Decades of behavioral patterns and (unrealistic) expectations set by the FI are really hard to shake.

    I need to always be on my game.

  72. Also, there is nothing that Ugh has that I want. Responding to her has been merely an exercise for me to refine my own thoughts and articulate them as a means of verifying what I have been able to learn from this place.

  73. @ Ugh

    The reason I say my wife’s ” job ” wasn’t real isn’t a disparagement.

    The unspoken arrangement/u understanding between us is that I was taking full responsibility for her, and the child(ren) that would result from our union. She was still an individual, and I had no desire to take away her individuality – but it would be in my Frame.

    When she wanted to go expand her education, I agreed and helped her get her degree. I wasn’t intimidated or afraid or any of that. But I had vetted her well beforehand. I had a good read on who she was, even knowing that beneath it all, she was still just a girl. Not derogatory, but ” girl ” in the sense that girls are different from boys, but very much like other girls. This hardly ever changes at it’s core. If a big actually likes girls, he is on his way to good things with proper understanding. If a big cannot grasp and understand girls, and he never advanced last that stage of ignorance, bad shit will eventually befall him.

    Anyway, all in marriage and long term stuff takes place in my frame, because I am a man in every sense of the word, and I have earned my manhood with blood,.sweat and tears. So yes, I recognize that she works, gets promotions and giant salary increases or whatever, but the initial understanding doesn’t change. I accept the burden, so I’m in.control. Not being a controlling asshole, but guiding to the best of my ability for maximum impact.

    Because man.

    So that’s why to my mind, it doesn’t matter financially what my wife is doing. I have the responsibility and burden. If I couldn’t back that or didn’t want that, I’d have stayed single.

    But that’s not what I wanted.

    Hence her job not being ” real ” because it doesn’t excuse me from what I have to do. So if it makes her happy, I love it, but it’s really got nothing to do with ” me ” at the end of the day.

  74. Interesting discussion.

    @Ugh, the answers you seek to your unnecessarily complicated questioning all lie within a very simple Truth going back to the origin of mankind:

    1. A king can raise up a woman and make her queen
    2. A queen can NEVER raise up a man and make him king

    Why? Because she will:
    A. fail miserably
    B. Grow to resent him and, sooner than later, zero him out — just as you resented-zeroed your ex-H.

    Why? Because it flies in the face of her unconscious hard-wired biology.

    Strip away the above titles (and replace them with your own notion of modern new-female era attainment of power, domain control, wealth, self-sufficiency) and you will come closer to realizing this simple time-immemorial human Truth.

    Extra Hint: It has nothing to do with a man’s title nor tangible wealth.

  75. Ajax Parallax

    This was brought up by Donovan Sharpe at a recent Red Man Group discussion.

    https://illimitablemen.com/2017/02/05/dominance-and-submission/

    I just got back from golfing. That was fun. Only my third round this year. I didn’t score too well 44 on the front round including two birdies and three pars in a string on the last five holes of the front nine. The last nine holes sucked and I had like a 48 (i don’t know my wife had had difficulty adding it up and threw away the score card.) I think she had a 49/49. We both have 23 handicaps. I only play about five times a year.

    Afterwards we had drinks and dinner and had a great time socializing with some shiny happy people. My wife is really into the social matrix over there and a good time was had by all. We/I made a good showing socially. We liked people. They liked us. Everybody was super pleasant. And most have played together well socially for at least 10 years of not 20 years. Lots of ’em have similar aged children. Most which are doing well in their twenties.

    I should have worn some sunscreen. Oops.

    Life is fun. And beautiful.

  76. “This was about my desire to dialogue with others and challenge an ideology that I see both flaws and truth in.”

    Back it up Sister.

    The Red Pill Awareness is not an Ideology. So don’t call it that. Feminism is an ideology and a miserable failure at that. The difference in how you things ought to be, rather than how they are.

    Right Here, Right now. (H/T to Jesus Jones).

    The Red Pill is considered to be a praxeology.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology

    https://therationalmale.com/2017/08/17/misperceptions-of-the-red-pill/

  77. @kfg

    Asia Argento’s new attorney, Mark Jay Heller — whose previous clients have included Lindsay Lohan and “Son of Sam” serial killer David Berkowitz…

    Looks like octupling down to me, it’s way beyond double/triple…

  78. “This was about my desire to … challenge an ideology.”

    Rational Male is more of a practical guide than an ideology, but nonetheless I think we see the pieces falling into place here…

    “Danno, check with other red-pill blogs. See if anyone else has been paid a visit from Ugh.”
    “On it, Steve.”
    “Be careful, gentlemen, if I’m right we could be dealing not with a strong independent woman but with a Gender Theory militant. Dangerous when confronted. Chin, check out every Women’s Studies department on the island.”
    “That a lot of crazies, Steve.”
    “Ben — take Ugh’s Instagram page, make 20,000 copies. Flood this rock — see what anyone knows. And Duke — have HPD round up the ex-Mr. Ugh. He’s still the missing piece in this puzzle.”
    “If he actually exists, Steve.”
    “Right, Danno — or if he’s still in any condition to talk.”
    Freeze frame on McGarrett, music up, outro to wave and commercial for the new 1972 Ford F-150

  79. @SJF

    To that end: The only way I see @Ugh ever reconciling with her ex is to divest herself of her business and turn it over to him. It’s an important test and leap of faith for the following:

    – It moves the burden of performance back over to him, where it should have been all along
    – It will show him she trusts his leadership and masculinity (and, most likely, it will resolve his depression which almost certainly stems from feelings of inadequacy)

    Only by going “all in” in this manner will the following be discovered:
    – Should he fail, she will resent him and again leave him
    – If it continues successfully but she is still calling the shots, she will resent him and again leave him

    So his burden becomes:
    – At minimum, maintain the business, thus earning her initial respect (which is temporary, since if if it remains status quo, she will again leave him)
    – He takes what she has already built and grows it into something bigger and better (thus increasing her respect for him proportionally)

    The net effect is:
    – All of the current unhappy empire-building masculine energy she currently feels is transferred back over to him where it should be
    – She is still free to *create* and contribute but without the male burden of financially providing for herself and their children — restoring her softer, girly feminine energy (aka happiness)

    If she can’t bring herself to turn over her business “baby” to him. If she can’t even stomach the thought of turning her business over to him, , then she has her answer:

    She does not trust him to lead the family. Period.
    Without this trust, the new relationship is doommed from the start.

  80. @Ugh

    You are still under some misapprehensions about biology. It seems that women actually psychologically want a man whom they need–maybe for the emotional rollercoaster (alpha fux) or maybe for his resources and protection (beta bux). This goes waaaay beyond recognizing that “women can have it all” is a fallacy. Women actually want to need a man and bond with men whom they most need.

    With the apex alpha (government) providing a resource backstop for women, women find that they no longer need a man for resources so much, so those types of men are less attractive. Therefore, women don’t form tight emotional bonds to betas because they don’t really need betas so much.

    Any society that encourages women to support themselves, thus delaying reproduction, and removes women’s dependence on men for resources is a society that wins the Darwin Award, because that society’s non-replacing birthrate will remove its people from the earth.

    The Red Pill is a tough swallow.

  81. @Ajax Parallax

    She ain’t never going back to him. Beacause of Eat, Pray, Love.

    If she want’s to be sat satisfied in life she has to look at women generated advice.

    Dr. Laura’s book The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands

    Her former husband wasn’t actually that dumb. She just didn’t know how to extract from him what she’ needed to.

    He seemed like a decent guy. But unaware. She didn’t know how to play him. And He didn’t know how to play her. For the benefit of her children.

    Case closed. They were ignorant.

    She will remain intentionally ignorant. If she proceeds in not listening to instruction here.

    Her defiance of understanding praxeology here will be her un-doing.

    Doin’t be a doubt-err here UgH.

    Read some of Laura Doyle’s books too.

    Including

    First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors: Modern-Day Secrets to Being Desired, Cherished, and Adored for Life–by Laura Doyle

    Then all the rest:

    https://www.amazon.com/Laura-Doyle/e/B004LTFUTM/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1536199104&sr=8-2-ent

    Please don’t be stupid.

    Your children deserve better.

  82. Almost every black guy I’ve ever known chases white women because even fat white girls are more feminine than most black women.

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