The War on Paternity

One of the most pressing imperatives human males (really most primates) have evolved is a need for certainty in their own paternity. Up until the last century with the advent of DNA testing it has been an imperative that has really been at the control of any female with whom a man copulates with. Indeed, even today a ‘father’ is really whomever’s name a woman puts on a birth certificate, generally no questions asked (and no information relayed) of that mother by the OBGYN doctors. Prior to the Sexual Revolution and the millennia leading up to it social and religious controls were instituted to keep rampant Hypergamy in check. An argument could be made that, even in a post-agrarian social order, ubiquitous monogamy and marriage were socially mandated as a way to not only control for women’s Hypergamous impulses, but were also the only practical means of control over certifying that a man’s child was of his own genetic line. And even this had its flaws.

Up until the advent of genetic testing the only practical, somewhat assured failsafe for knowing paternity was long term, pair-bonded monogamy and the social conventions that were instituted around it. Men’s sexual strategy (our masculine imperative) is scattershot. Our biology functions such that we can father countless children with each ejaculation and continue to do so well into our later years of life. This strategy is a counterbalance to women’s quality-over-quantity approach to their own sexual strategy. For each environmental obstacle one sex’s reproductive imperatives poses, the other will evolve contingent strategies to compensate for it.

To understand this conflict all we need to consider is the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies – For one sex’s strategy to be fulfilled the other’s must be compromised or abandoned. 

For men, in a social order founded on monogamous pair-bonding, this means abandoning his scattershot sexual strategy and adopting the strategic goals of women’s strategy. What were looking at here for men is exactly the type of evolved contingent strategy I mention above – abandoning his sexual imperative to essentially bet his genetic legacy on one horse, rather than diversifying his odds with, potentially, many sexual opportunities. This is a very important distinction for Red Pill aware men to make with regards to their own sex; opting in for long-term monogamy over a man’s evolved sexual strategy (scattershot) represents adopting a woman’s (ultimate) sexual strategy as his own. This dynamic is defined by what’s called strategic pluralism theory:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

If we consider that men are overwhelmingly (80%+) rated as unattractive by women today we begin to see the adaptive logic of strategic pluralism for men. Less opportunity equals less potential to follow a man’s sexual imperative. Solution: invest all your sperm and all your efforts into one long-term bet; reproduction with one or relatively few sexual partners – and if you can build social and moral conventions around this adaptive strategy to reinforce it, so much the better.

If men can compel intrasexually competing men, and women (whose strategy might be compromised by adopting it), to believe that monogamy is a social and moral imperative, then they increase the odds that they’ll successfully circumvent what would otherwise be the natural limitations of their own reproduction.

As you can probably guess, this adaptation for singular parental investment imposed a much higher premium on men’s need for certainty of their own paternity. To be sure, the Alpha Males of most primates have a habit of killing the offspring of any prior Alpha that had access to fertile females in a group prior to his own breeding with them. This infanticide is yet another adaptive insurance that a male primate can be certain that any resources, protection and parental investment he put into any progeny would be of his own paternal line. If it can be assumed that the importance of paternity is a primary, evolved drive in primates, how much more imperative must it be for human males adopting a sexual strategy of singular investment? How much more imperative must it be for women to collectively confuse paternity within a social collective (tribe) and protect against a perceived threat of infanticide or loss of resource provisioning if left on their own?

Even in our march towards ‘civilization’ we find this anti-paternity bias in the killing of male members of a social collective while preserving fertile females for potential breeding purposes. Today we may not be killing the sons of rival clansmen, but we can certainly see the paternity bias in how we regard kin affiliation above out-group affiliation in our personal dealings. Concerns of paternity, for men, evolved to be part of our mental firmware – and certainty of it became of paramount importance.

Strategic pluralism, however, is not without its own counter contingencies. Even within a social and moral environment that restricts Hypergamy, women are still psychologically compelled to optimize their own sexual strategy to its fullest. 8,000 years ago 17 women reproduced for every 1 man – and this was after the advent of agriculture. There’ve been other studies that reduce this number to a 5 to 1 ratio, but still the fact remains that even in a social order that (ostensibly) prioritizes pair-bonded monogamy, women have provably found ways to optimize Hypergamy and confuse paternity to a socially stable degree. Thus, we see counter-adaptations in behavior on the part of men to mate guard, to once again, insure certainty of paternity. Even in the relative stability of monogamy, men’s psychological imperative for paternity supersedes the social environment.

Cuckoldry by Any Other Name

As I’ve mentioned in prior essays, cuckoldry deserves a much broader definition today; one that goes beyond the obvious duplicity of birth fraud. Women have found that by tweaking the social conventions that would limit their own sexual strategy they can circumvent the monogamous side of sexual pluralism socially enforced by men. Thus, we get new feminine-primary social conventions that celebrate, socially reward and positively reinforce men’s acceptance of the parental investment responsibilities of other men who fathered children with a woman they’ve pair-bonded with. Step-dads get the big thumbs up and we rejigger the positive reinforcement to downplay father’s day and replace it with special person’s day.

Now, consider this with respect to the potential for infanticide that a woman’s hindbrain believes men are capable of. That fear of infanticide represents a root-level limbic part of women’s evolved need to optimize Hypergamy and the great potential for loss of having optimized it in her offspring. So imperative is this to the female psyche that it became necessary to socially condition men’s evolved paternity need out of them once women and the Feminine Imperative became the dominant social driver.

On a larger social scale, one that is defined by a post-Sexual Revolution, feminine-primary social order, the answer is simple and total; men must be convinced to completely abandon their biological imperative of parental certainty before they commit to a monogamous relationship with a woman. Socially, we make paper heroes of men who will accept the parental investment responsibilities of a child he didn’t sire. That ‘heroism’ of the guy who accepts his assigned role as a retroactive cuckold is short-lived, but the archetype of that guy who ‘man’s up’ and adopts the children of a single mother is now embedded into our modern folklore.

I would also argue that a large part of the Blue Pill conditioning of men for the past 5 generations can find its roots in women’s need to optimize Hypergamy while ensuring the security that once she does a provider-male will step in to fulfill his role as a dutiful cuckold. In order to achieve this, free from the fear of infanticide, boys and men must be conditioned to unequivocally revoke any need for certainty of their own paternity.

A few years ago I outlined the next step in Open Hypergamy would be transitioning to a state of normalized and accepted Open Cuckoldry. Wrapped into this transition is also the social efforts to normalize a feminine-controlled form of polyamory – one in which primarily a woman is presented with the options and control of exercising both the short-term sexual, and long-term provisional, sides of Hypergamy. Today this is what’s termed a polyamorous relationship with male partners representing Alpha seed and Beta need. In moving from a normalized state of Open Hypergamy to Open Cuckoldry there are a series of social changes that need to occur and find acceptance in the general population of men. One of these changes is a large scale, socialized effort to get men to accept that their biological imperative to ascertain paternity – even the questioning of paternity – be equated with “toxic” masculinity.

The War on Paternity

Increasingly we are seeing a push on the part of the Feminine Imperative to delegitimize the innate need of men to ensure their paternity. It’s actually an aspect of a war that’s been going on since the Sexual Revolution to redefine masculinity and fatherhood. As I mentioned in Positive Masculinity the definition of what makes a father is becoming more and more ambiguous, while fathers become increasingly more superfluous. In order to complete this delegitimization of masculinity men must be convinced that their innate need to know paternity, and the importance they inherently place on it, is something to be ashamed of.

Every social mandate we see today puts the interests of the mother and child well above that of any father. This is why paternity is rarely ever a factor in issues of child support; even for children that a man didn’t father but is held legally liable for. Socially, even religiously, any importance of paternity for men is being systematically erased. From doctors being gagged from informing cuckolded fathers of genetic tests, to limiting their access to DNA tests themselves, to encouraging men to ‘man up’ and marry single mothers as a moral imperative, paternity for men is now some sort of shameful insecurity.

Why would the Feminine Imperative seek to root out what has been a fundamental, evolved, part of men’s mental firmware since the time of our hunter/gatherer beginnings? Because Hypergamy needs security. Hypergamy needs assurances to quell the doubt that a woman has optimized both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of her sexual strategy. I would argue that men’s psychological need for certainties in his paternity is on par with the need women have of certainties in their need for optimizing Hypergamy.

All this war on paternity amounts to is an ensuring that women’s unquestioned, unilateral control over Hypergamy is baked into men on a societal level. Convincing men to abandon any claims on certainty of paternity, and at the same time shaming men who put any importance on it, is an effort on the part of the Feminine Imperative to get men to surrender their sexual strategy by abandoning it wholesale, while praising them for playing a willing role in fulfilling women’s sexual (and life) strategy. Even when that sexual strategy is one where a man acknowledges his lesser sexual market value and seeks to put all his investment into one woman, the push to delegitimize men’s need for paternity circumvents this strategy.

Delegitimizing men’s need for paternity cancels any and every upside that long-term monogamy had for Beta men using this sexual strategy. Thus, a return to a scattershot, some would say ‘less civilized’ sexual strategy becomes the only obvious alternative for men who want parental certainty.

Erasing the importance of paternity for men is literally the last nail in the coffin that is now contemporary marriage. It reduces men to little more than draft animals and livestock for women’s breeding purposes by erasing any claim a man may have to know his children are his own.  Most well-conditioned Blue Pill men adopt this archetype unquestioningly. There are no ‘Fathers’ anymore; all men are interchangeably either breeding stock or simply childcare workers in this new social framework. And boys and young men’s pre-acceptance of this state of men is part of their Blue Pill conditioning.

To fully effect Open Cuckoldry the goal of the Feminine Imperative is to have men define masculinity as accepting parental investment as separate and apart from evolved concerns of paternity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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Sentient

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[…] The War on Paternity […]

Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche

Yep. Fuck Marriage.

IAS
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IAS

@Rollo: I know about the cardinal rule but there is something that I think Sentient points out, that hypergamy is a win-win strategy. Even without the (alpha) male abandoning his sexual strategy, the woman who gets the Alpha Fucks is winning the seed, and if a man (alpha chooses or a beta is kind of forced to by lack of choice) abandons the scattershort and provides, the women who gets the (presumably Beta) Bucks is winning.

What do you think of that interpretation?

Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche

@Snobby Tabitha

Yea til you need something. Then you have to ask, or whine it out of someone dumber than you. Worthless Bitch.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books for Cucks)
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Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books for Cucks)

Now we can close the negative feedback loop: sprogdaddy men who accept their societal programming to not ask questions about said sprogs’ provenance, and abjure their toxicity of being masculine, will get no reward for their obedience. There will be just their wives’ or POSSLQ’s disgust and boredom at their abject Beta-ness which will ripen and mature like fine wine. And the Kids Aren’t Alright. As REM sings, “Everybody Hurts.” If Beta Dad is sufficiently abject he will be thrown over. His sprogs will be told father doesn’t matter, in keeping with what appears to be an ascendant theme again… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

What do you think of that interpretation? They win in a world where the entire male sex supports their imperatives. In a sane world, women are not permitted this choice (nor are alpha males), and things are locked down for everyone’s benefit on a social level. We don’t live there, though, we live here, and therefore we adapt to these circumstances and thrive in them, at women’s expense at times if need be (although it needn’t be if we bring to the table what we ought to). And the rest of the guys? Yeah, they’re basically slaves, that’s about correct.… Read more »

Agent P
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Agent P

Just be Alpha,and attractive, have game.

it kind of clears everything up for you.

R
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R

It is why it is MEN who fear foreign men coming into their countries and cities, whereas women are standing there with “refugees welcome” signs for some fresh alpha DNA.

It is why beta men are often in conservative religions that try to impose “one woman for one man” regulation of the sexual market place. Muslims have more in common with the alt-right in that they seek to impose this regulation. “No players allowed” is what they’re both saying as they want to be sure of paternity.

I can’t understand therefore why any player can be religious!

Sentient
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Sentient

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Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

Think about how controlling of women most islamic ideology is. Wear a Burka. Can’t leave the house without a male escort. Can’t drive a car, up until recently. What’s the latent purpose of that control? Control of Hypergamy and ultimately certainty of paternity – granted it’s to the obsessive compulsive degree, but the purpose remains the same. Yes. Christianity was once so as well. What happened, though, was that Christianity became conflated with “being a mainstream American”, culturally, and when that culture changed, Christians in America changed right along with it, because their allegiance was primarily (and remains primarily) cultural… Read more »

Mr. Roboto
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Mr. Roboto

Even in my wildest Beta/Blue Pill days I knew it was a terrible idea to date/marry a single moms. However, what surprised me was that almost all my closest friends and classmates are widely open to the idea of marrying and raising another man´s children. Indeed, some of them are now in LTR with single moms 🙁

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

However, what surprised me was that almost all my closest friends and classmates are widely open to the idea of marrying and raising another man´s children. Indeed, some of them are now in LTR with single moms

Easy to understand: attractive(and let’s be honest, plenty of babymamas are)+available = attraction for most guys. Simple, really. Thirst.

Mr. Roboto
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Mr. Roboto

@Rollo A new evo-sycho study explains the origin of sexual fluidity in women: “I propose an evolutionary theory of human female sexual fluidity and argue that women may have been evolutionarily designed to be sexually fluid in order to allow them to have sex with their cowives in polygynous marriage and thus reduce conflict and tension inherent in such marriage. In addition to providing an extensive definition and operationalization of the concept of sexual fluidity and specifying its ultimate function for women, the proposed theory can potentially solve several theoretical and empirical puzzles in evolutionary psychology and sex research. Analyses… Read more »

R
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R

That’s my point Rollo – it is 100% clear that Islam is a SMV regulator to control access to women (and have paternal certainty) as I said. But the bigger point which not many on here seem to get is that that’s what most of the manosphere want to do too. The alt-right love the idea of patriarchal control, restrictions on the SMP, strict monogamy (i.e “the good old days”). It’s their attempt to get access to pussy. I just find it odd that intelligent commentators don’t see this double standard: “We hate Islam but we propose the same ideas.”… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

A new evo-sycho study explains the origin of sexual fluidity in women

Well, finally someone wrote it. I mean it’s quite obvious that it stems from the prevalence of polygyny historically. No such prevalence of polyandry, although some women are trying it out today … it has no evolutionary precedent, unlike polygyny.

Auvergnat
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Auvergnat

@Rollo: I’ve read you time and again basically explain that: 1. Men’s ONLY sexual strategy is “unlimited access to unlimited sexuality”. 2. Men buying into monogamy is therefore “abandoning their sexual strategy to adopt women’s, in accordance with your “Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies”. This is not entirely right. Here you add an interesting part being that men abandon their sexual strategy when they are too low-value to effect it. This is better. The fact is a woman’s sexual strategy IS NOT “sexual exclusivity with a low-value man”. So when a low-value man abandon his optimal “unlimited access to unlimited… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

@Auv —

Brilliant conclusion.

Auvergnat
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Auvergnat

Re-reading the post and considering the actual definition of your Cardinal Rule:

Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies – For one sex’s strategy to be fulfilled the other’s must be compromised or abandoned.

Actually still fits my thinking (that optimal strategies of M and F are incompatible, aka cannot be effected at the same time). It’s just that I’d add that in practice, BOTH sexes have to compromise on their optimal strategy.

Auvergnat
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Auvergnat

The more I read this quote, the more I appreciate the clarity of its wisdom.. > “According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.” >… Read more »

Auvergnat
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Auvergnat

> “Delegitimizing men’s need for paternity cancels any and every upside that long-term monogamy had for Beta men using this sexual strategy. Thus, a return to a scattershot, some would say ‘less civilized’ sexual strategy becomes the only obvious alternative for men who want parental certainty.”

Amen. Except that this strategy is only possible if you’re high value. Aka the rational behind the red pill’s advice (lift, learn game, make money, get status) is not only more sex (move from a sub-optimal beat strategy to an optimal alpha strategy), but simply that the beta strategy has been voided.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong

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levijynx
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Interesting ever since I found Sharks “Solve my girl problems” in high school he recommended the three R’s( Rollo, Roosh and Roisey(Heariste)). Forget which one of you said it first but not dating single moms has been a default because of YOU. It’s a shame shark took his blog down it had the perfect click-bait title to wake up high school afc who wanted to know why girls acted the way they did. I suffered a devastating breakup and I thought I did everything right through a blue pill lens. I was like “Wtf am I doing wrong?!” Sure enough… Read more »

Dave
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Dave

“Men’s optimal strategy: unlimited sex with unlimited number of partners, no commitment.”

That depends on the climate. In some places, long winters and bad soil ensured that fatherless children, and semi-fathered children of polygynous marriages, died in infancy. These places are still renowned for the loyalty of their men and the beauty of their women. (When women have to compete for mates, the ugly ones die childless.)

pinelero
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pinelero

Technology to determine paternity is out there and relatively easy to perform and cheap enough to utilize. This will help the hapless beta feel more secure, if they aren’t adequately conditioned to not to even want to know, that a baby is their genetic legacy. It can also be used to hamper the scattershot approach as the State can come after a fruitful father for support payments or jail-time. With crisper technology DNA sequences can be changed very easily, so we may be on the verge of a “Gattaca” or “Brave New World” type of genetically engineered baby. Would a… Read more »

Trent Lane
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Trent Lane

Very, VERY good and concise arguments from both Rollo and Auvergnat, imo. Also, what a contrast to come here from your #metoo social media feeds and read this: “Erasing the importance of paternity for men is literally the last nail in the coffin that is now contemporary marriage. It reduces men to little more than draft animals and livestock for women’s breeding purposes by erasing any claim a man may have to know his children are his own.” Talk about an evolved mind should be able to entertain opposing thoughts at the same time, or however this quote goes, lol.… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

ould a genetically engineered kid alleviate a females need for Alpha seed (most likely not stem her desire for such sex…)? With genetic engineering they can have a perfect baby and have a long-term effeminate beta for a partner.

I think more likely is that child rearing gets largely outsourced, and the beta partner becomes completely obsolete. Alpha/desire sex will never become obsolete.

Go the anti-fragile route, guys.

pinelero
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pinelero

“Time to cuck some betas in this bitch FeelsGoodMan” LOL! your Alpha scattershot strategy will be to get single moms knocked up… until they use DNA testing to tag you for child support. Married ones would be the best bet, as the husband is the default father legally and the mom probably won’t want to tell otherwise.

This is my dilemma now, knowing about hypergamy do I advise my girls to benefit them or to benefit myself via optimized grandchildren?

Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche

@pinelero

“With genetic engineering they can have a perfect baby and have a long-term effeminate beta for a partner.”

All that perfect baby has to do is lose a fastball to another perfect baby and the nightmare begins again.

Mr. Roboto
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Mr. Roboto

@ levijynx

You still can have access to the old Shark´s blog here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150221013903/http://www.solvemygirlproblems.com:80/

walawala
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walawala

Biology and Evolutionary Psychology explain everything…guys don’t want to know and women don’t want you to know.

Blaximus
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Blaximus

I’m still wrapping my head around this op. I don’t really get it. That women find 80% of men unattractive is complete FI driven bullshit. Men seeking answers should by all means stay away from OK Cupid and tinder. That shit is fake, false and phony all the way around….. But I’m old and don’t use that shit. I’ve always counseled males to stay away from getting strung up in web driven social media type garbage, but I can see now that it’s much too late for any of that. Men line up and volunteer for their emasculation. The whole… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus

Oh, one last thing from my perspective, men aren’t animals. Similarities are only similarities. I know, I know… Lots of euro scientists have pushed this over a few centuries. And it’s been taught in all major Eurocentric education facilities forever, but men aren’t apes or any other kind of animal.

Similarities. I swim. Doesn’t make me a fish.

In many ways animals are much wiser that humans, because they are experiencing all of this trumped up shit that we humans are.

On the flip side, animals don’t have fighter jets or espresso machines either, so there’s that. Lol.

rugby11
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rugby11

“Go the anti-fragile route, guys.”
Spot on worked out today and found myself in tune with the brutality of the human condition.

key
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key

Blax said it – we are men, not animals

never get married (money bet obviously)

OR

you desire children – hold frame and roll those loaded dice – just make sure the chips are in front of your bet

only bang chicks who could theoretically be a proper mother to your children then make the nubile woman your wife

hard work, thankless, neverending potential for heartbreak, boredom and joy

God didn’t put men here just to fuck around

sublime post Rollo – look forward to reading the next 1k+ comments

IAS
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IAS

@Rollo: the statement was hypergamy being win-win for the woman, or more accurately no-lose for the woman (I think Sentient frames it more as a no-lose). Because it is a dual strategy. But as Auvergnat points out, they still lose a bit if they can’t get both aspects of the dual strategy maximized. So it is kind of like the distributions of traits for men and female. Men can win big and lose big more frequently, women strategy is designed to avoid loss but it is harder for them to really win big (getting the top male giving them Alpha… Read more »

Oscar C.
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The way I see it, the real problem is not when you raise somebody’s else baby, but when you do so UNKNOWINGLY. It is the idea of being duped that really makes my blood boil. Thank God I have never wanted to have children. Even less now. Frankly, I can’t understand how men who are acquainted with the RP can maintain such a desire after unplug. Borrowing @rugby’s words, I don’t want a son of mine to experience the brutality of the human condition. Otherwise great OP, Rollo. Well-written and flawless reasoning. This stuff is not so prevalent in Spain… Read more »

Oscar C.
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*somebody else’s

Culum Struan
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Culum Struan

@Auvergnat – great post and analysis. @Blax – that 80% thing is quite misleading in the headline. The data comes from the book written by the guy who founded OKCupid and has been cited before and if you look carefully, what it says is that women (in online dating scenarios) rate 80% of men as being *below average*, not “unattractive”. Online dating is notoriously prone to problems for reasons that have been beat to death in the Field Reports topic, and elsewhere when YaReally was still around, so I won’t repeat it. It’s obvious [to us on TRM] that whatever… Read more »

levijynx
Guest

@pinelero I’d say just optimize for yourself/grandchildren since society already optimizes for them.

levijynx
Guest

@Mr.Roboto Your the Man!!

I wonder if Shark still reads this blog under another alias.. Any leads?

levijynx
Guest

@Blaximus “Men seeking answers should by all means stay away from OK Cupid and tinder. That shit is fake, false and phony all the way around…..” “If you use dating apps, don’t complain about anything. You’re part of the problem.” I agree I actually stayed away from then for the longest but recently had a change of heart. Just like how we use hypergamy to our advantage shouldn’t us young’uns use them to our advantage. Just like how hypergamy isn’t going anywhere tinder isn’t either. Might as well take advantage of it right? Or am I missing something. Just a… Read more »

earlthomas786
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earlthomas786

There’s something missing in all of this…the thing that poured the gas on the hypergamy fire…the reason why women find a lot of men unattractive…the thing where women can attempt to block the less desirable man’s seed and ‘forget to take’ for the more desirable man’s seed. It’s not so much about the blue/red pill, I speak of course about ‘THE pill’…contraceptives. The thing that changes so much in a woman’s mating stategy, her hormones, and her body it’s no wonder they are confused. If you are dating/married/ or are with a woman who is on the pill…know that she… Read more »

SG
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SG

@Auvergnat…copied your post for future reference. You defined perfectly what is actually taking place. I think we all know this instinctively though, lol. Thanks for the articulation.

Blaximus
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Blaximus

@ Culum Always good to see you here. I understand Rollo’s points about single moms because the FI is actively waging a campaign that’s designed to foist a kind of single mom worship on society at large, and the narrative they put forth obliterates responsibility for women while attempting to force men to accept and cooperate with hypergamy rather that control it in any way. That’s some sick shit. For men, the devil resides in the details. The current general prescription from society is completely insane, so individual men have to decide what is within their ability and understanding to… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@levijynx You are aware that Shark also had a book called The Black Flag on Game? He wrote well: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B49L8UpafiuLYncyNGhpTW0yU1JJRFoxbGlwdFh5ZWRxckdV/view @IAS Men can win big and lose big more frequently, women strategy is designed to avoid loss but it is harder for them to really win big (getting the top male giving them Alpha Fucks and Bucks). Interesting, yesterday I was out at my farm doing some project work with my son and another of my tribal buddies. We were working side by side and he asked me what I thought about gambling at casinos. I told him I never… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Anonymous Reader

Someone named “Alex Press” who claims to be 25 years old and female calls on women to use their ingrouping against the likes of Weinstein. “Weaponizing the whisper network” looks to be just an amped up version of what exists now. A Patreon rant copied to an online branch of the Female Imperative. https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/10/16/16482800/harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-workplace Except that men targeted by the “whisper network” can wind up in jail, while women who gossip won’t, of course. That little detail gets left out for some reason. Wonder why? Alex Press is an assistant editor at Jacobin and a PhD student in sociology at… Read more »

dr zipper
Guest
dr zipper

not a FR, but kinda related to the topic…. last night I went out with my new cologne (thx guys) with the intent of going to a new place for food and practice there’s a little historic district of a small town nearby and I parked there and let fate guide me; one place had live music so I went in after also getting the food endorsement from a patron outside having a smoke; had some folk duo that covered a decent variety of tunes; this is not a club but a restaurant and bar and it’s not late, about… Read more »

christopherleonid
Guest
christopherleonid

In France, it is already illegal to procure paternity tests. Paternity, some French say, is merely a social construct.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

@ levijynx I think that for a large number of men, the participation in online dating is driven to a great measure by thirst, and a mistaken assumption that they can exercise a degree of control in the Interaction. OK cupid, tinder, plenty of fucks, it’s all very femcentric. For chicks it’s like the Amazon for ordering up dicks, or at the very least a mental masturbation over being able to reject high numbers of men. Short of trying to locate some broad looking to just bang, men need to opt out of this mess en mass. In my mind… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

There is value in the OKCupid data believe it or not. That value is largely the confirmation of the Pareto Principle in relation to the SMP. You need experiments to confirm even “common sense” in order to have a valid view of reality. For those saying it isn’t valuable from the perspective of “watch what they do, not what they say” I beg to differ. In a direct survey where someone is clearly looking at their answers yes women would lie about those ratings. The reason though is to create a better image of themselves in the eyes of the… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

@ Dr Z I’ve asked here before about kids with an older father so hope isn’t extinguished but there’s no clear path to that right now… Broadly speaking I know little about it, but one of my best friends in life got married (for the first time) at 50 to a woman almost 20 years his junior (also her first marriage). He has three young sons now and is loving the whole thing as they also appear to. He is not Red Pill aware as far as I know and I have not seen him since learning these things myself… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

Programmed into each male psyche is the urge to mutilate and kill the offspring of other males, most especially those sired with a woman whom a male believes he has claim to. Many of you are sissys (even though you are waking up and making questionably commendable efforts not to be). Therefore, you may find yourself hoping, verbalizing, (in denial due to fear) that what I write is too extreme, harsh, or sick. It is not. It is the truth. What other creature exists that so intentionally, willingly, continuously, creatively, through shear force and cunning prolifically “commits” homicide? Although the… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

Hmmmm…

Thinking some more on this.

Laws are written to “protect people”, to “provide order”, ensure “fairness”.

But for who? Who needs their protection? Who needs “order”? Who needs “fairness”?

Alpha males?

Do laws exist to protect women, children and beta males?

Protect from who?

walawala
Guest
walawala

Recently I was at a Latin dance party. One of the girls I dance with: tall, young, hot and married came over to me. I know her husband but I still game her just for practice. She comes over to me to tell me she saw Wind River—which I have not yet seen. She says: “you would love it…it’s very…Masculine.” I smile: So you thought of me? Her: Yes, it has shooting and crime and… she blabs on. I just smiled. After 7 years I think I’m finally where I want to be and giving off the vibe I always… Read more »

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

Yet at the same time, women seem to mind when babies are merely switched in the maternity ward.

j
Guest

@Not Born This Morning “Do laws exist to protect women, children and beta males” Yeah from true alpha males via alpha proxies: “Myth of the middle class Alpha To make the idea of monogamy work, lower-status men had to make marriage to lower-status seem to be as good a deal as marriage to higher-status men. Not only were women back in the day physically weaker than men (same as today), but also, unlike today, they had little rights and protections and few independent means of income. Choosing a strong, powerful alpha male was especially important for women back then for… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

None of the list above works the way it’s outlined any longer.

Whew.

Btw, police jobs is not to run around exacting revenge. That one jumped off the page at me. That’s why it’s funny to hear people complaining about their rights and shit, but being okay with militarized police forces that will be turned against you at the drop of a hat. Then it’s too late.

Police are there to enforce the law as it appears on the books. None of the extra shit is required.

Remember, they are part of the state apparatus.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

…. People love my he cops until they come for them and fuck them up.

earl
Guest
earl

‘Although the majority of males being too weak or constrained by “the state” and the “culture”; too psychologically castrated to act upon their natural instincts, the instincts, urges, thoughts still dwell within the minds of all men.’ There is the ‘thou shall not kill’ commandment. If you want to bash in the brains of an innocent child just because another man produced the kid…that’s a sick thought process. The more effective advice is to not even bother with single mothers…let those mothers hound the man who produced the child for his responsibility…there is no real upside for another man to… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Police are there to enforce the law as it appears on the books.”

Police are there to compel people to appear in court. Court is there to enforce the law.

That’s why the cop says, “Tell it to the judge.”

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

but I do think that at that very moment when I envied her/them she was looking at me wondering if she’s still ‘got it’ just in case some Plan B needed to be always at the ready for her Yep you will find that happens a lot when you have your eyes open, if you’re older and attractive. It’s a combination of what you write (checking to see that she still has it) and also a longing for something other than being saddled with her H and kids, even if she doesn’t act on the longing, you can still sense… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@Culum that 80% thing is quite misleading in the headline. The data comes from the book written by the guy who founded OKCupid and has been cited before and if you look carefully, what it says is that women (in online dating scenarios) rate 80% of men as being *below average*, not “unattractive”. Women don’t even see betas. Only alphas can be average men. Betas are “below average,” i.e., unattractive. @Blax Women will have sex with unattractive men, but alphas get 80% of sex and betas get 20%. @earl It’s not so much about the blue/red pill, I speak of… Read more »

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Guest
xxxxxxxxxxxx

Someone said in an earlier post that the natural instinct of male lions, when they take over a pride, is to kill of all cubs that they did not sire. Not that human males should follow a simialr instinct, but making a point that these instincts nevertheless exist. That might be true, but then again, lions have no loyalty to other lions that do not share their bloodlines. The “stepcubs” are not going to come to the aid of their paternal figure/s when the latter come under attack or challenge from a rival group of male lions. Altruism in humans… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

The thing I’m finding strange is this talk of instincts to kill shit. I call bullshit because most men aren’t killers, regardless of whatever thoughts they may harbor because of something theynread somewhere. But if you do have a strong urge to kill an child, any child, you are head fucked. It’s got fuck all to do with tribes or hunter gatherers or vikings or any of that shit at all. There is no justification. It’s 2017 so fuck your idea of instincts. Animals have instincts. Humans, being bored and silly like to think they operate on instinct. That’s how… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Instincts are hard-wired behaviors. They aren’t something that is easily overridden. Things like a mother suckling her young or female mating behavior or the involuntary primate reaction to seeing a potential mate. Killing other people is something that can easily be overridden. I haven’t found any psychological basis for this supposed killer instinct.

But why is believing that men have killer instincts so important to NBTM? Have people made this highly speculative evo-psych thesis into an ideal? Is it idealism rearing its ugly head?

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying

Saw a story where a guy bought his family one of those DNA tests for genealogy and gifted them at a family reunion, and found his children weren’t his, and were all “half” siblings… Nothing that I wouldn’t expect from the number of married women that get turned on taking it bareback.

I whole heartedly recommend that all men find such an excuse to have “his” children tested, but be prepared to find that some of them, aren’t your children.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

Today i was learning about how i escape the pain… Buffer’s from dealing with what it takes to build an actual relationship with another human being. The work and the effort into building a real version of a respect and definition of the pain expressed into creation. A form of something massive and beautiful. A serene exploration of the outdoor’s and connecting with other men.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZTwuDi49uA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3yAc6_L_qQ

levijynx
Guest

@SFJ Interesting story on how I got Sharks book “The Black Flag”. I was in high school when it came out and I didn’t have access to a credit card so I left a comment on one of the”comments” articles(answers viewer questions) kind of wishing I could get the book. Sure enough he emailed me giving me a pdf copy of it. He knew I was really a high school student because I always left questions for his “Comments” articles and I was a regular commenter in general on his blog. @Blaximus The PUA in me wants to say if… Read more »

pinelero
Guest
pinelero

@just saying: one very quick and easy test is comparing blood types. You have to know your blood type and the mom’s blood type and the kids also. The combination of male/female blood types through procreation can only yield certain combinations of blood types. If you have a kid that doesn’t have a blood type within the realm of possible blood types based upon the male/female blood types, then a DNA test is not necessary. If you do meet the blood type combinations that is not definitive proof of paternity and a DNA test will be conclusive. Everyone should know… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

Did not know that about the blood type patterns. Looked for a chart and found one immediately, which also contains this reference to the OP, and from 15 years ago…

Mommy’s little secret – 1 out of 6 Canadians are Victims of Paternity Fraud

Includes interview with employees of Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, Ontario, Canada who admit they deny children’s identity information to husbands/male partners of mothers who want to hide the real identity of their child because they had an affair.

https://canadiancrc.com/Paternity_determination_blood_type.aspx

earl
Guest
earl

‘If women are “lit up”, then they have a cascade of dopamine. Dopamine is unaffected by The Pill.’

Estrogen and dopamine levels are connected in women.

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

Mommy’s little secret – 1 out of 6 Canadians are Victims of Paternity Fraud Yep. Most sources in the US say it’s about 5% overall, but when you are in “riskier” populations (ie, histories of promiscuity and affairs) it rises to around 15-20%. I am betting that those numbers are low-balled because the medical community has collectively decided that it doesn’t really want men to know what the reality is, either overall or especially in a specific case, because it doesn’t want to be the party who precipitates a marital breakup (the philosophy is is that if she was clever… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
trackback

[…] of female sexual tendencies. Rollo has a new post  where this is discussed in the context of The War on Paternity. While most previous efforts to ensure paternity in the past have been dismantled, new technology […]

cheupez
Guest

I still think playing the game by women’s rules will benefit more men than we are willing to accept. Saudi women in are like, “no burqas, let us drive!” etc. Western women are like, “let us have some fresh refugee cock!” Everytime a man walks into a club and finds all that liberated gyrating pieces of sexy ass is what makes for man paradise. The quick retort against one saying that is usually, “they only choose alpha” No they don’t. Any man who has cared enough to bring himself to situational awareness and has worked at himself to achieve some… Read more »

CSI
Guest
CSI

@j “Lower-status men simply couldn’t cut it. Say a pack of men want to rape her. Is he high enough in status or badass enough in combat to protect her?…. Even if he’s able to accumulate decent resources, if someone comes along and tries to take his resources, his worldly possessions, run him off his land, burn his house down, kill his children, and/or steal his wife, what is he prepared to do? Once again, no police force to call.” Even the most alpha alpha is likely to be overwhelmed if a group of men decide to take from him.… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

@blax
Armed conflict deaths disggregated by gender in Africa: Angola, Ethiopia, Nigeria (biafra rebellion), Mali (berbers), the Sudan during armed conflict children directly suffered infanticide during war (I am talking direct battle deaths). The women were raped. Lions much? I believe that these guys too are homosapiens. Of course boy child suffer more infanticide during battles so… I am sorry for touching on this sensitive example while the wounds are still fresh but: Did you think they did not kill infants when they were raping the Rohingyas?

cheupez
Guest

*disaggregated

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Cheupez: I think you are mostly incorrect in thinking there is some sort of “trickle down effect”. In your example of night clubs, you are implying that after the top 20% of guys in the setting are taken and get out of the club, the remaining girls will readjust their standards and start picking out of the new “top 20%” left in the club. I’d say this is incorrect because they have a “floor” / lower bound. They need to think the guy is higher value than she thinks she herself is. They will lower their standards a little bit… Read more »

Oscar C.
Guest

Those wars in the Third World have often a background of ethnic hatred more than anything else. Britain and France arbitrarily drawing borders in Africa and Asia made them more probable. Lately I find myself agreeing with @Blax often, and this is no exception. Most things are learned. From very early on, but learned. BP being the quintessential example. Also, enter “envy”. This is a feeling I am very interested about right now, because it is sadly a powerful force for me, and I suspect for a lot of manosphere types as well. The most extreme case being Elliot Rodger,… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

Infanticide is not new to humanfolkn it may have something to do with what the Brits or French did all over the third world, but not everything. Infanticide existed long before that, it is even there in the bible (old testament, I think).

cheupez
Guest

@IAS I am just trying to give a perspective from my experience. I do not think I am top 20% in height, brawn, swag etc. May be just bucks. Well may be I don’t have a pot belly and I still have my hair and I lift so, I am not a pushover either. Just not top 20%. But I get laid. A lot. A lot. So much so that at some point I even had a blog just to brag about my experiences. That was before I even found the manosphere. Reading Rollo completely changed everything because then after… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57887/mynameisearl/images/c/c9/BabyEarlJr.jpg

“the medical community has collectively decided that it doesn’t really want men to know what the reality is, either overall or especially in a specific case, because it doesn’t want to be the party who precipitates a marital breakup “

Marley
Guest

Yikes. Well, at least he saved money on the unnecessary DNA test.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Britain and France arbitrarily drawing borders in Africa and Asia made them more probable.” All you have to do to know that Iraq would at some point try to annex Kuwait is look at a map. Kuwait exists because the British needed a harbour in WWI, so they gave a kingdom to a nomadic chief who happened to be in the area, so the “king” could give them the harbour. Thing is, it’s Iraq’s harbour. “Just not top 20%. But I get laid. A lot. A lot.” This is an oxymoron, not a paradox. It appears as a paradox to… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

This relates more to the Control post than this one, but since this is the active thread I will post it here — I also posted in at Donald’s place in response to his most recent post there: Another thought struck me while perusing this recent “gem” of an article at CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/opinions/what-men-can-do-me-too-stamp-opinion/index.html Lots of nonsense in there, really, basically requiring men to be radical feminists in order to be considered “decent” (nothing new there from the revolutionary crowd, but the Weinstein thing is being used as a stalking horse in a rather loud way, it seems to me), but… Read more »

stuffinbox
Guest

This song fits the OP. [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7x1ETPkZsk&w=560&h=315%5D There is nothing new about cuckoldry, what is new is asking a man to pay for the show and scede his power or control in the way the child is raised. Raising another mans child requires more investment than raising your own, the rewards are dubious, especialy when the baby dady is still in the picture or in the case of hidden paternity, after ten years of investment it becomes obvious the flatfooted klingon foreheaded kid isn’t yours. It becomes nescessary to distance oneself from ego investment to make it workable vs totaly… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

@kfg
We are saying only 1/5 of the men in the club will get laid? I doubt it, from what I see. We are NOT saying that you get desire sex because you are 20%, we are saying you can get desire sex even if you are not top 20%.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“We are saying only 1/5 of the men in the club will get laid?” No. What I am saying is that if you are in the top 20% of men getting laid, you are in the top 20%. What you were saying is that you are not in the top 20%, because you have a priori assumptions about what the top 20% is that you do not match. But you getting laid like tile does not prove that you can get laid like tile if you aren’t in the top 20%. What it does is disprove your preconceptions of what… Read more »

walawala
Guest
walawala

A very good reminder of the Truth behind the original post:

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Cheupez: in other words, if you are indeed getting laid very frequently in a night club setting, you are indeed top 20% in that setting. I don’t think you realize just how little game most men have, even the good looking ones.

Mr. Roboto
Guest
Mr. Roboto

Some months ago Vox did a research about what words women look for most in Amazon, and he found that one of most common words was “secret baby”. The image with the results that Vox originally posted is not longer available but you can see the discussion about it in the comments.

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/what-women-want.html

j
Guest

“in other words, if you are indeed getting laid very frequently in a night club setting, you are indeed top 20% in that setting. I don’t think you realize just how little game most men have, even the good looking ones.”

And out of that 20%, only the top 1% of guys are getting the best looking girls. The other 19% “aimless alphas” get laid very frequently with the average girls in the club:

http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/6/#comment-heartiste-449411

Mr. Roboto
Guest
Mr. Roboto

@pinelero

I didn´t know about that test of comparing blood types, that´s a nice advice. Thanks!!!

@stuffinbox

“My advice is don’t take on another mans responsibilities.”

I agree, but sadly most men (at least men I know) refuse to understand that.

A classic from Joseph W. South:

http://www.girlschase.com/content/female-basic-conflict-understanding-women-s-ambivalence

levijynx
Guest

@Mr.Roboto @stuffinbox

” “My advice is don’t take on another mans responsibilities.”

I agree, but sadly most men (at least men I know) refuse to understand that.”

To add on to this the single mothers will reward you with pussy and some men think it’s not so bad but really should still not settle for it.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
Mr. Roboto
Guest
Mr. Roboto

@levijynx I know they are rewarded with pussy, but to get some used pussy doesn´t worth all the sacrifices that imply to raise a child that is not yours. I have a friend that was going to marry a single mom with 3 children just because of the pussy (and because she cooked good meals lol), it took me a very long talk to convince that fucking idiot of not doing so. However, I had a former classmate that left his PhD studies to marry a used slut with 3 children again just for the pussy. I think I posted… Read more »

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