The War on Paternity

One of the most pressing imperatives human males (really most primates) have evolved is a need for certainty in their own paternity. Up until the last century with the advent of DNA testing it has been an imperative that has really been at the control of any female with whom a man copulates with. Indeed, even today a ‘father’ is really whomever’s name a woman puts on a birth certificate, generally no questions asked (and no information relayed) of that mother by the OBGYN doctors. Prior to the Sexual Revolution and the millennia leading up to it social and religious controls were instituted to keep rampant Hypergamy in check. An argument could be made that, even in a post-agrarian social order, ubiquitous monogamy and marriage were socially mandated as a way to not only control for women’s Hypergamous impulses, but were also the only practical means of control over certifying that a man’s child was of his own genetic line. And even this had its flaws.

Up until the advent of genetic testing the only practical, somewhat assured failsafe for knowing paternity was long term, pair-bonded monogamy and the social conventions that were instituted around it. Men’s sexual strategy (our masculine imperative) is scattershot. Our biology functions such that we can father countless children with each ejaculation and continue to do so well into our later years of life. This strategy is a counterbalance to women’s quality-over-quantity approach to their own sexual strategy. For each environmental obstacle one sex’s reproductive imperatives poses, the other will evolve contingent strategies to compensate for it.

To understand this conflict all we need to consider is the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies – For one sex’s strategy to be fulfilled the other’s must be compromised or abandoned. 

For men, in a social order founded on monogamous pair-bonding, this means abandoning his scattershot sexual strategy and adopting the strategic goals of women’s strategy. What were looking at here for men is exactly the type of evolved contingent strategy I mention above – abandoning his sexual imperative to essentially bet his genetic legacy on one horse, rather than diversifying his odds with, potentially, many sexual opportunities. This is a very important distinction for Red Pill aware men to make with regards to their own sex; opting in for long-term monogamy over a man’s evolved sexual strategy (scattershot) represents adopting a woman’s (ultimate) sexual strategy as his own. This dynamic is defined by what’s called strategic pluralism theory:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

If we consider that men are overwhelmingly (80%+) rated as unattractive by women today we begin to see the adaptive logic of strategic pluralism for men. Less opportunity equals less potential to follow a man’s sexual imperative. Solution: invest all your sperm and all your efforts into one long-term bet; reproduction with one or relatively few sexual partners – and if you can build social and moral conventions around this adaptive strategy to reinforce it, so much the better.

If men can compel intrasexually competing men, and women (whose strategy might be compromised by adopting it), to believe that monogamy is a social and moral imperative, then they increase the odds that they’ll successfully circumvent what would otherwise be the natural limitations of their own reproduction.

As you can probably guess, this adaptation for singular parental investment imposed a much higher premium on men’s need for certainty of their own paternity. To be sure, the Alpha Males of most primates have a habit of killing the offspring of any prior Alpha that had access to fertile females in a group prior to his own breeding with them. This infanticide is yet another adaptive insurance that a male primate can be certain that any resources, protection and parental investment he put into any progeny would be of his own paternal line. If it can be assumed that the importance of paternity is a primary, evolved drive in primates, how much more imperative must it be for human males adopting a sexual strategy of singular investment? How much more imperative must it be for women to collectively confuse paternity within a social collective (tribe) and protect against a perceived threat of infanticide or loss of resource provisioning if left on their own?

Even in our march towards ‘civilization’ we find this anti-paternity bias in the killing of male members of a social collective while preserving fertile females for potential breeding purposes. Today we may not be killing the sons of rival clansmen, but we can certainly see the paternity bias in how we regard kin affiliation above out-group affiliation in our personal dealings. Concerns of paternity, for men, evolved to be part of our mental firmware – and certainty of it became of paramount importance.

Strategic pluralism, however, is not without its own counter contingencies. Even within a social and moral environment that restricts Hypergamy, women are still psychologically compelled to optimize their own sexual strategy to its fullest. 8,000 years ago 17 women reproduced for every 1 man – and this was after the advent of agriculture. There’ve been other studies that reduce this number to a 5 to 1 ratio, but still the fact remains that even in a social order that (ostensibly) prioritizes pair-bonded monogamy, women have provably found ways to optimize Hypergamy and confuse paternity to a socially stable degree. Thus, we see counter-adaptations in behavior on the part of men to mate guard, to once again, insure certainty of paternity. Even in the relative stability of monogamy, men’s psychological imperative for paternity supersedes the social environment.

Cuckoldry by Any Other Name

As I’ve mentioned in prior essays, cuckoldry deserves a much broader definition today; one that goes beyond the obvious duplicity of birth fraud. Women have found that by tweaking the social conventions that would limit their own sexual strategy they can circumvent the monogamous side of sexual pluralism socially enforced by men. Thus, we get new feminine-primary social conventions that celebrate, socially reward and positively reinforce men’s acceptance of the parental investment responsibilities of other men who fathered children with a woman they’ve pair-bonded with. Step-dads get the big thumbs up and we rejigger the positive reinforcement to downplay father’s day and replace it with special person’s day.

Now, consider this with respect to the potential for infanticide that a woman’s hindbrain believes men are capable of. That fear of infanticide represents a root-level limbic part of women’s evolved need to optimize Hypergamy and the great potential for loss of having optimized it in her offspring. So imperative is this to the female psyche that it became necessary to socially condition men’s evolved paternity need out of them once women and the Feminine Imperative became the dominant social driver.

On a larger social scale, one that is defined by a post-Sexual Revolution, feminine-primary social order, the answer is simple and total; men must be convinced to completely abandon their biological imperative of parental certainty before they commit to a monogamous relationship with a woman. Socially, we make paper heroes of men who will accept the parental investment responsibilities of a child he didn’t sire. That ‘heroism’ of the guy who accepts his assigned role as a retroactive cuckold is short-lived, but the archetype of that guy who ‘man’s up’ and adopts the children of a single mother is now embedded into our modern folklore.

I would also argue that a large part of the Blue Pill conditioning of men for the past 5 generations can find its roots in women’s need to optimize Hypergamy while ensuring the security that once she does a provider-male will step in to fulfill his role as a dutiful cuckold. In order to achieve this, free from the fear of infanticide, boys and men must be conditioned to unequivocally revoke any need for certainty of their own paternity.

A few years ago I outlined the next step in Open Hypergamy would be transitioning to a state of normalized and accepted Open Cuckoldry. Wrapped into this transition is also the social efforts to normalize a feminine-controlled form of polyamory – one in which primarily a woman is presented with the options and control of exercising both the short-term sexual, and long-term provisional, sides of Hypergamy. Today this is what’s termed a polyamorous relationship with male partners representing Alpha seed and Beta need. In moving from a normalized state of Open Hypergamy to Open Cuckoldry there are a series of social changes that need to occur and find acceptance in the general population of men. One of these changes is a large scale, socialized effort to get men to accept that their biological imperative to ascertain paternity – even the questioning of paternity – be equated with “toxic” masculinity.

The War on Paternity

Increasingly we are seeing a push on the part of the Feminine Imperative to delegitimize the innate need of men to ensure their paternity. It’s actually an aspect of a war that’s been going on since the Sexual Revolution to redefine masculinity and fatherhood. As I mentioned in Positive Masculinity the definition of what makes a father is becoming more and more ambiguous, while fathers become increasingly more superfluous. In order to complete this delegitimization of masculinity men must be convinced that their innate need to know paternity, and the importance they inherently place on it, is something to be ashamed of.

Every social mandate we see today puts the interests of the mother and child well above that of any father. This is why paternity is rarely ever a factor in issues of child support; even for children that a man didn’t father but is held legally liable for. Socially, even religiously, any importance of paternity for men is being systematically erased. From doctors being gagged from informing cuckolded fathers of genetic tests, to limiting their access to DNA tests themselves, to encouraging men to ‘man up’ and marry single mothers as a moral imperative, paternity for men is now some sort of shameful insecurity.

Why would the Feminine Imperative seek to root out what has been a fundamental, evolved, part of men’s mental firmware since the time of our hunter/gatherer beginnings? Because Hypergamy needs security. Hypergamy needs assurances to quell the doubt that a woman has optimized both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of her sexual strategy. I would argue that men’s psychological need for certainties in his paternity is on par with the need women have of certainties in their need for optimizing Hypergamy.

All this war on paternity amounts to is an ensuring that women’s unquestioned, unilateral control over Hypergamy is baked into men on a societal level. Convincing men to abandon any claims on certainty of paternity, and at the same time shaming men who put any importance on it, is an effort on the part of the Feminine Imperative to get men to surrender their sexual strategy by abandoning it wholesale, while praising them for playing a willing role in fulfilling women’s sexual (and life) strategy. Even when that sexual strategy is one where a man acknowledges his lesser sexual market value and seeks to put all his investment into one woman, the push to delegitimize men’s need for paternity circumvents this strategy.

Delegitimizing men’s need for paternity cancels any and every upside that long-term monogamy had for Beta men using this sexual strategy. Thus, a return to a scattershot, some would say ‘less civilized’ sexual strategy becomes the only obvious alternative for men who want parental certainty.

Erasing the importance of paternity for men is literally the last nail in the coffin that is now contemporary marriage. It reduces men to little more than draft animals and livestock for women’s breeding purposes by erasing any claim a man may have to know his children are his own.  Most well-conditioned Blue Pill men adopt this archetype unquestioningly. There are no ‘Fathers’ anymore; all men are interchangeably either breeding stock or simply childcare workers in this new social framework. And boys and young men’s pre-acceptance of this state of men is part of their Blue Pill conditioning.

To fully effect Open Cuckoldry the goal of the Feminine Imperative is to have men define masculinity as accepting parental investment as separate and apart from evolved concerns of paternity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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if you are going to stay in that area, your best bet is to make a plan to find those hotty HBs that are always in an area… Gents… time to be real. HB’s go where there is a good trade on… and they trade in beauty. What is your fortune, my pretty maid?” “My face is my fortune, sir,” she said. So that means going where there is opportunity (financial or BB) or status (where they can get psychic payoffs in addition to resources/BB)… So you end up with concentrations in… 1. Universities http://cdn1.theodysseyonline.com/files/2015/08/17/635754338004095789-670909726_2B672F8800000578-0-image-a-22_1439701749067.jpg 2. Cities (the wealthy parts… Read more »

stuffinbox
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At least I never posted on facebook.

Blaximus
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Sent, ” wealthy ” has nothing to do with where the hotties are.

You will find more plastic surgery in the wealthier areas though. Lol.

It’s the ” city ” part. They are all over the place.

Blaximus
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Now that I think about it a little bit, let me proffer a mini PSA for all the newbs out there, especially the younger cats trying to formulate a game plan for life and chicks without pain and suffering. Money is nice. Status ( …I guess ) is nice ( to an extent ). Yet, there is more than 1 Red Pill in life. Over my lifetime I’ve managed to party and bang on both coasts and all up and down the eastern seaboard and throughout the great southwest and deep south. For the most part, I did not have… Read more »

O.B.I.T.
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Or to put it another way, Blaximus, if you are smart enough to get your foot in the door then NOT having money can work to your advantage, help you fit the bad boy role.

IAS
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@Blax: Sentient has some point. The hottest girls in night clubs will usually be in the more exclusive night clubs, where you either are on the guest list or have to pay some sum to enter or have to “game” the promoters until you are on the guest list or whatever.

That said it is true that you can access the same hotties in day game, with bitch shields down, if you happen to pass by them (then you just need to open them and DHV well).

Blaximus
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@ IAS

If 10,000 hot girls go out, but ” exclusive ” clubs can only take 3,000 of them, where oh where will the others go? Home? NOT. Lol.

Don’t believe the hype.

Sentient
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Blax Sent, ” wealthy ” has nothing to do with where the hotties are. You will find more plastic surgery in the wealthier areas though. Lol. It’s the ” city ” part. They are all over the place. Even within a “city”, which itself is an area of opportunity for beauty to trade [as opposed to the farm], there is a marked correlation between the wealth of the part of the city and the beauty of the women. This should not come as a surprise. The bux part = money after all. HB farm girls stream into? Hollywood, if they… Read more »

Sentient
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If there are 10,000 hot girls… you can be sure there will be more than 3k capacity at clubs…

Vegas?

Sentient
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That said it is true that you can access the same hotties in day game, with bitch shields down, if you happen to pass by them

If you happen to by pass them… which is the point of all this.

Blaximus
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@ O.B.I.T. I have gone to a few ” exclusive ” clubs. Pretentiousness isn’t really my thing. A couple of years ago, I tried to get into 1 Oak in NYC, and to my surprise, got right in. But it wasn’t really all that imo. There were some very hot gals there though, but no where near as many as at the Latin dance club I frequent, or at some of the other less ” exclusive ” clubs. Funny thing though, the night I went there were hardly any guys in the club. Idk, did the doormen turn them all… Read more »

IAS
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@Blax: I think the more exclusive clubs purposely try to have a skewed ratio of more females per male.

Sentient
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Blax

I tried to get into 1 Oak in NYC, and to my surprise, got right in.

You are cracking me up. You got right in huh Denzel? All 6 foot 200 pounds of steal yo grandma?

Shocked…

Also exclusive does not equal pretentious. Hells Angels MC is exclusive, not pretentious.

O.B.I.T.
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@Sentient
My first big oneitis was a Nebraska gal. Always met wonderful people from that state

Blaximus
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Lol Sentient, One of the disadvantages to being in a highly populated area is that 6 foot tall, 200 pound, steal yo grandma isn’t all that uncommon or special.

I think the door guy was just like ” oh..what the hell, welcome “.

IAS
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@Blax and Sent: Blax is well known to have several instances of apex fallacy.

He marched in there with rock-solid Frame, the bouncer probably assumed he was some semi-important pro player of some sport or whatever.

Blaximus
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@ IAS

Lol, I’m flattered but don’t give me so much unearned credit. I’m old and tired, lmao.

O.B.I.T.
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Hopefully he didn’t shoot himself by accident like Plaxico Burress

Blaximus
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O.B.I.T.

No firearms in the club for me, and I don’t go to places where I might need one.

Sentient
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Blax IAS

Apex fallacy indeed.

“I think the door guy was just like ” oh..what the hell, welcome “.”

I doubt there were any 5 foot tall guys or 350 pound fat slobs in there either… This shouldn’t at all be contentious, just how it is. Doormen, screening, managing the throngs of dudes, bottle service pro forma beta bux bona fides etc. This is all standard club game.

Exclusive? You don’t even hear about the hottest places until they’ve peaked… Then they open the door wider and wider on the downside.

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@Blaximus

“Lol, I’m flattered but don’t give me so much unearned credit. I’m old and tired, lmao.”

Lol He’s right you do have some good points but go on vacation to Colorado and rip a fat one… That’ll wake you up no matter what age you are(especially if your retired or your own boss). Remember Hypergamy doesn’t care how baked you are. 😁

https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/16/hypergamy-doesnt-care/

Lost Patrol
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This shouldn’t at all be contentious, just how it is. Doormen, screening, managing the throngs of dudes, bottle service pro forma beta bux bona fides etc. This is all standard club game.

Rollo explained this a bit in a previous post, or maybe it was supplemental commentary. Interesting point of view from behind the bar/ from the manager’s office that expands on the above. I didn’t save it though if anyone remembers where it is.

Lost Patrol
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even lil’ ole Seattle has this…

Hey, those chicks aren’t sporting the “grunge” look at all. I was up that way not long ago. Don’t remember seeing women under the age of 50 that didn’t have pink/blue/green/purple hair, multi-piercings to include bull rings, and extensive tat jobs. In some cases, and I have witnesses, even seasoned observers were not sure if the server was biologically male or female, just as they wanted it.

But I didn’t go to Aston Manor. Locations within locations.

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@KFG “When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves . . . Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”–Dr. Viktor Frankl, resident of Auschwitz and Dachau No homo. I want to thank you. https://youtu.be/GhlSvVxLYjw In The Will to Meaning, Frankl notes that “logotherapy aims to unlock the will to meaning in life.” More often than not, he found that people would ponder the meaning of life when for Frankl,… Read more »

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@Rollo – what do you mean by “false equivalencies..80/20 on the other side of the spectrum”?

Like girls with apex fallacy saying “well, men only want hot girls, I’m too average and don’t get matches on Tinder” when they mean “the [ALPHA] men [THAT I WANT] only want hot girls..”

rugby11
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SJF
“It is a meld of choice and energy.”

Sentient
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Lost Patrol Locations within locations. within locations… the tables, the vip, the back rooms… the after parties… Relentless sifting and sorting. It’s quite interesting. Now back to this pic… It must be double posted… What did you think when you saw it? This is what I thought… “What’s that giant sucking sound?” and “How many board feet of cock will cycle through that room?” Really why make things harder then they have to be. If I was serious about stepping up in The Game, I would move to a college town for a few years. A large college town preferably.… Read more »

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@Yollo DSM IV Description of Narcissism Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: (1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) (2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (3) believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or… Read more »

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@Sentient
College towns and neighborhoods are the best — but your top-10 lists are so SunBelt-ocentric. From NYU to Nebraska, you’ll do just fine in northern climes as well. Well maybe not Ohio

Sentient
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That one pick up guy is at OSU…

O.B.I.T.
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He must be very good, or a masochist. As they say about jockeys, maybe he should move his tack to a richer circuit

Sentient
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=p3A5Ve9AauU

This guy, he is good. Quality is a bit low. But good infields.

Sentient
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“your name is Brooklyn? I will be in Brooklyn next week. And maybe tonight if you play your cards right!”

Boom.

The whole “we’ll see how you play your cards” is such a money gambit.

O.B.I.T.
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Notice the palm trees in one quick shot near the end — he apparently gave up on Ohio after tiring of HB5s in Cavs jerseys.

Sentient
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQpCM5vOgY4

On campus, walking around with a coffee…

Sentient
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OBIT

“Palm trees”

No doubt on average hotter girls where they wear less clothes… but hey man Game Skillz are portable homie… If you are stuck in Binghamton – get cracking on that 17k student population playa.

Novaseeker
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he apparently gave up on Ohio after tiring of HB5s in Cavs jerseys.

Really, so there aren’t hotties at Ohio State, with its huge student population? I seem to remember quite a few on High Street there, the last time I was there a few years ago.

O.B.I.T.
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They probably were from Indiana or Kentucky

Blaximus
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: (

Blaximus
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Lol. I fail at pua. My ” style ” is sooooo different from every pua bid I’ve ever watched.

I’m a failure.

Blaximus
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Vid…. Spell check hates me.

kfg
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” My ” style ” is sooooo different from every pua bid I’ve ever watched.”

I’m afraid my reaction to most of them is “We are sooooo fucking doomed.”

They may show some of the basic interaction mechanics in an O’Reilly manual sort of way, but the men have little actual game and display little actual masculinity.

“…. Spell check hates me.”

Doesn’t make you special.

Blaximus
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Lol

O.B.I.T.
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I prefer the YouTube vids where someone shows you how to clean an octopus or dress a mullet.

That Columbus Ohio vid — the guy’s OK but ugh, the leaden skies, the drab streetscape, the people aimlessly shuffling by thinking no doubt of someday moving to a more exciting place, like Wheeling or Euclid… just so depressing

Roused
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There are plenty of hotties at OSU. I’ve seen plenty. One of them is a buddy’s daughter and she sizzles. Cbus is crawling with young and restless.

I used to travel to Phoenix for work regularly. Always stayed in Tempe as close to ASU as possible. Lots of sexy hot Sun Devil chicas there too.

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The first thing that always jumps out at me in 90% of the vids is how false and loud the guys come off. Sure, maybe they talk loud because they’re being recorded, but who does that in real life? The guy yelling that he was ” so fucking lit “, damn, it sounded wooden and completely unnatural, like it’s not a part of his normal vocab. I dunno. Yareally says they are good for pointing out certain aspects of pickup. But holy shit. Goes to prove my ongoing point though, that girls aren’t as hard to talk to/ pick up… Read more »

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Aaawwwcome off it OBIT, it’s the Great Lakes. We get what we get. Wheeling and Euclid….LOL.

I also traveled quite a bit to the Pacific Northwest. People back east always griping about the weather out there, because they only knew what they heard, not what they experienced themselves. I experienced some rain and sleet a few times, but had some superb work and vacation trips with awesome weather. Spectacular actually.
Pick the right time of year, or just go with the flow. Bitching won’t change the weather partner. smile

Obits…another newsy/journo I’m assuming.

O.B.I.T.
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I’m sure Columbus is cool and I’m mostly just kidding about Ohio. My original point was to defend northern campuses in the face of Sunbelt bias, like that hilarious 10 hottest colleges link Sentient posted (with ample visual aids).

It’s just that in my own personal experience Ohio happens to rank near the bottom of the various states, territories and U.S. protectorates

Sentient
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OBIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMepR_id54s

How to dress up a mullet…? cut off denim jacket natch…

O.B.I.T.
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@Roused
You’re so right — I definitely am a refugee from the journo world — as I’ve said here before, because the media industry has become a glaring example of the FI in action, with terrible effects on our overall society

And you’re right that most places around the US do have something to offer if you bring a positive frame of mind and find your niche. I’m sure plenty of people would look at my beloved little town and gag

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@blax “But holy shit. Goes to prove my ongoing point though, that girls aren’t as hard to talk to/ pick up as many guys imagine they are.” But he didn’t pick her up (aka fuck her). Not even number closed her…she just walked away…then he awkwardly kissed her for his YouTube channel. That Buying Temperature spike would have worked better had he been isolated with her first. But to recover I would have caught up to them “hahaha I’m joking lol (statement of empathy) but you guys seem cool (qualify her). Listen I’m waiting for my friends you guys don’t… Read more »

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@obit; ” My original point was to defend northern campuses in the face of Sunbelt bias, like that hilarious 10 hottest colleges link Sentient posted (with ample visual aids).”

LOL! The yankees are upset that we have all the beautiful girls in the dirty South. There is a reason everyone says the South will rise again!

O.B.I.T.
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Southern girls ARE much easier on the ears as well as the eyes

dr zipper
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agree on the ASU Tempe assessment…. I’d been to many many SoCal uni’s before ASU and yet, fuckin-a, that’s one of the big memories from back then…. those hot ASU girls

fleezer
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“Heck, I was “rewarded” for watching the HABD video of Talking Heads ”

belew is so fucking good it’s scary

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” If I was serious about stepping up in The Game, I would move to a college town for a few years. A large college town preferably.”

agree.

you will have a new girl to go out with every night of the week and two on thurs-sat. if you so choose

out of the last 20 years I only spent 1 in a metro with less than three million. during that one year in the boonies I only fucked my wife. not a coincidence.

fleezer
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” those hot ASU girls”

agree. all the socal dummies who can’t do uc system go to the desert to get shitfaced and take cock

lots of good times at the “15 floors of whores” dorm

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@Stuffin I get a little antsy when people post references to the Narcissistic Personality type since I’ve struggled with it for most of my life. That said, I never used to think of the Jesus Freaks as Narcissists before. I chalk it up to lack of self-awareness on their part. But I also notice that there’s “Alpha” and “Beta” Jesus Freaks. I know that cuz I used to be in a church cell group and got to see all these sorts of dynamics play out. A narc Alpha Jesus Freak seems no less capable of pulling than a non-narc at… Read more »

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I am looking at these comments and realising that situational awareness makes a person slightly beta as compared to one who responds to his narcistic inclinations blindly. The first time I read Rollo, the thing that hit me the most was the alphafux-betabux dichotomy. That night, I has a dream. In that dream I met some older aging ex fuckbuddy and we decided to go out for a drink. While there a (hotter and younger) friend of hers joined us and started ordering drinks on our bill. Still later, another friend of her friend came to join us and started… Read more »

SJF
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The first time I read Rollo, the thing that hit me the most was the alphafux-betabux dichotomy.

This is not a follow up to that. But I thought the original post that follows and the follow up discussion in comments at MRP reddit was a good one. It is a discussion. It is not canon. (It is a discussion to figure things out…) It is specifically for LTR Game. It is not relevant to PUA or STR Game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/78du7z/afbb_a_grown_ups_perspective/?ref=share&ref_source=link

SJF
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Quick question, the acronym that eludes me in my last post: What exactly does RMV stand for in SMV/RMV? Relative or Relationship Market Value?

stuffinbox
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@Yollo “A narc Alpha Jesus Freak seems no less capable of pulling than a non-narc at least at first. But It could be that the narc eventually gets sick of non-narc in the circle and decides to set up shop somewhere else. Probably since the narc doesn’t feel worthy of the top(or any) chicks unless he’s also the quarterback of the group.” Happen to know one,he needs the non narc to lord it over and totally feels worthy of top shelf tang. The guy made the circle of the local churches doing PUA, shacks up with his oneitis for awhile… Read more »

SJF
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Something Rollo re-Tweeted, too good to not be posted here. I don’t know how this figures in Jordan Peterson’s purview. Evidently JBP tweeted a reference to this guys blog essay. It would be something good if Peterson looked into Rollo’s Red Pill brand of thinking:

https://medium.com/practicecomesfirst/our-feminine-primary-social-order-conditions-every-aspect-of-western-culture-buddhism-included-5b2bb1712b75

rugby11
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stuffinbox
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@cheupez

Maybe the dream was your subconscious mind letting go of blue pill incongruencies.

stuffinbox
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@rugby11

If the catholic church doesn’t welcome divorced people it may soon be empty. They should practice AL on a case by case,keeping in mind it takes two to tango,good thing I won’t get excomunicated.

cheupez
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@stuffinbox I am not sure any more whether I am better off as a pussy hunter knowing the things I know now, or I am worse off. It may be that the subconsious was rearranging some misplaced pieces in the get-some-pussy-schema part of the brain. I must admit I had not seen it that way. Most dreams just fade away and leave zero memories. But some stick around. It is my belief that the ones that stick may have some meaning and warrant attention… @sjf My fear concerning alphabux: How it often tends to gravitate towards purple pill reasoning in… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@chuepez

If everything is optimal and always running smoothly, men and women would both have a revolving door of dick and vagina in their lives……

But then men and women are born……..AND they get old. Heh.

If you’ve ever had a day when you’ve been sick of looking at a significant other, trust me, so has she.

Thankfully there’s more to us than that. But there’s game for when there isn’t.

Yollo Comanche
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@Stuffin

“Happen to know one,he needs the non narc to lord it over and totally feels worthy of top shelf tang. The guy made the circle of the local churches doing PUA, shacks up with his oneitis for awhile till they wise up on how selfish he is and move on.”

Yeeep. What was the plan all along. Funny how that worked out.

stuffinbox
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@cheupez

“I am not sure any more whether I am better off as a pussy hunter knowing the things I know now, or I am worse off.”

We make the best of what we have to work with. When you hit 60 they will all have their manipulation in high gear and give new meaning to high maintenance and wet blanket.
At this point it is a tossup between man whore and celibacy.

SJF
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@Cheupez “I dont know if this makes sense the way I have put it. LTR game is tough.” Yes you make all the sense in the world. But I specifically denoted LTR Game. Some of us have valuable LTR partners that we want to Game on the back end with MRP Game. Which works quite well. As to Purple Pill, as much as Rollo dismisses the idea, there is a lot of Purple Pill going on out there. It is not a goal, but it is a bridge to more Alpha and dismiss the side of Beta. No matter what… Read more »

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@Yollo “Yeeep. What was the plan all along. Funny how that worked out.” In one case the plan was she would help fund a spec home,that didn’t work out. If a guy just wants to bang and move on why shack up? When christianity bought the bill of goods that Jesus loves someone more when material things manifest in their life,this pushed narciccism and attracted narcs. Like “look at my shiny new….. Jesus really loves me.” Now the rage is fix men,of course this can only be done through manipulation and social control. Like this isn’t man’s problem in the… Read more »

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Back to Rollo’s warning about the war on paternity — how is the media pushing this? Of course single mothers are now hailed as strong, plucky heroines. But the thing to watch is how the man — the father — is increasingly being purged from the story altogether. It’s what you could call Immaculate Conception journalism. In what way is the single mother single and how did she come to be a mother? What was the context of the relationship when the children were conceived? It’s now too judgmental to even wonder much less ask, so the traditional Five W’s… Read more »

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Quick question, the acronym that eludes me in my last post: What exactly does RMV stand for in SMV/RMV? Relative or Relationship Market Value? It’s relationship market value — sort of like MMV (marriage market value) without the implication that the relationship must involve a marriage. It’s distinguishable from pure SMV in terms of how people select relationship partners for LTRs as compared with how they select bedmates for STRs. However, it’s a bit more complex because SMV is a component of RMV, it’s just not the only component. On the stuff quoted from MRP, it’s always been true that… Read more »

rugby11
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Self improvement is ripping the dust off of old habbit’s
https://blacklabellogic.com/2017/10/26/gendernomics-on-value-part-4/

kfg
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kfg
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My Rugby moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53FsGMQ3lk

Lost Patrol
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That hash tag me too video is great.

grovelling, apologetic men trying to find a sliver of safety…

Search in vain boys. Even if you find the sliver, it is only good for “a few minutes of grace”.

Worm
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comment image

Yollo Comanche
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@Stuffinbox “In one case the plan was she would help fund a spec home,that didn’t work out. If a guy just wants to bang and move on why shack up?” He might be a narc but he’s still Blue Pill. Probably still trying to catch up to Leo, Harvey, and Chad. Missionary style. Unless it clashes with his quest for super powers, which of course, the altruistic and self-abnegating style of the Modern Christians would definitely fuck with that since it’s designed to. Then it’s time for another fundraiser. Doesn’t matter if marriage is Hell. He can take anything Harvey… Read more »

rugby11
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kfg Been doing a lot of self work… I read what your saying about “Victimhood” The predator dynamic of being male is something i have always found ironic. I have experienced more violence from women than men. Women are beautiful and that is what makes them dangerous. Females are a collective that will alway’s look out for each other. Religion and Politics bleeds past this. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvv.pdf https://ncadv.org/statistics Comics are one of my buffer’s their i said it. I was doing Journal work in Ivan’s book today and i found myself realizing that the truth i was told to speak and… Read more »

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Thank you Nova, Culum, others for some great and helpful responses. I’ve got a lot more to respond to and some follow up questions but I wanted to point this out so far. I’ve been on POF for about 3 full months so that is a decent sample size. I’ve probably viewed…just guessing around 1000 to 1500 pictures maybe up to around 2000. I’ve got my age range set from late 20s to 45 I think with about a 50 mile radius, and so far I’d have to guess I am rejecting between 80 and 90% so to me only… Read more »

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One quibble with the quote — I don’t think it’s true that good relationships are easy. It always takes work and effort on your part, because you have the burden of performance, and things do come up in almost all relationships that make things difficult and require effort to overcome. I think some people do get “lucky” and have relationships that are “easier”, in terms of there being less friction, but I also think it’s quite misleading to tell people that unless their relationship is virtually effortless, it’s a bad relationship — that’s false. It shouldn’t be drudgery, and it… Read more »

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@Morpheus “There is other shit that affects relationships just as attitude to money, and fiscal responsibility vs saving, etc. One of the biggest is discussing and resolving conflicts, and TBH they all can’t be reduced to alpha frame equaling.” I’m not sure what you mean by “alpha frame equaling”. LTR game is effort and work to be complementary (Polar) Masculine and Feminine and not equalist. It’s letting the man be masculine (assuming he’s competent at that) and letting the feminine be feminine (assuming she is competent at that–and that is comprise of a huge “if”). (A lot of this concept… Read more »

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SJF, Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m not sure what you mean by “alpha frame equaling”. All I really meant is NOT every problem, issue, difficulty in a relationship can be boiled down to the guy not being alpha enough to being too beta. Other problems can arise that sort of exist outside the spectrum of where the guy is on his alpha/beta behavior. The way I personally resolve this cognitive dissonance (and I happen to be pretty skilled/masterful at dealing with cognitive dissonance) is that I decided a while ago to fully accept Red Pill (because it seems logically… Read more »

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Morpheus Just the fact that you are introspective occludes the abuse allegations,in my mind. Reread PREVENTIVE MEDICINE chapter five. Rollo pretty much covers the redevelopement schism in this chapter. IMO if you don’t have children and grand children, with the history that goes into this part of family the incentive to stick it out is nil for both parties. Reflecting on the failed relationship in your case may help if you want to go on with women 4-5 SMV points below yours. There is no guilt in picking a fresher ripe apple. If I were you I would redefine my… Read more »

SJF
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“Reread PREVENTIVE MEDICINE chapter five. Rollo pretty much covers the redevelopement schism in this chapter. If you don’t have the Preventative Medicine Book, that Chapter was here: https://therationalmale.com/2014/04/13/preventative-medicine-part-iv/ Very well written and insightful. Morpheus: “On one level, I wonder if her ending the marriage was preemptive in that she thought well I’ll just end it before he does eventually.” It most certainly was. Women often have a whole plan laid out including relationship, self and other sabotaging well before they ignite the nuke. You know what’s funny in my opinion? Four years ago, my wife was in that phase of… Read more »

dr zipper
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‘…the irony is that I was willing to look past all her junk, stay married, and hope she could get on a better track, but apparently my issues hit a breaking point for her that she had “no choice but to leave”….’

ya, that ‘for better or worse’ part was meant for you, not her

jbthazard
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Pretty incredible. It doesn’t matter how much we come up with legal, psychological or social/societal explanations and justifications. It still all comes back to genetics and evolution. And most humans still think their behaviour is free from such primitive mindsets……the gall.

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Child support should not be able to be court-ordered without a paternity test. If she can’t even find the guy for a paternity test? She chose wrong and deserves to die in the gutter along with her illegitimate antisocial spawn.

If a guy cannot pay child support, he should be forced to undergo a vasectomy (or castration preferably). She again deserves to die in the gutter along with her illegitimate antisocial spawn.

Patriarchy and Meritocracy = Producers are the Alphas = Civilization is Best
Feminism and Socialism = Antisocials are the “Alphas” = Civilization is Garbage

Morpheus
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@Morpheus I went back to page two of comments here cause I was wondering why you were unpacking stuff in your post mortem of you marriage. I missed the first time you said it that the divorce was just finalized after being initiated six months ago. So now I see it’s you working through the grief phases. Here’s wishing you well on that. Ha, yeah, working through those stages. This was my longest adult relationship at around 11 years. I kind of had to go through the shock stage twice once in April and again in July. This wasn’t a… Read more »

info
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”With genetic engineering they can have a perfect baby and have a long-term effeminate beta for a partner”

How about being an Alpha provider. Effeminate beta cucks only perpetuates the cuckery through pity fucks and allowing those abominable soy boi’s a genetic chance.

The Chad should be the same person as the provider.

The Husband should not only bring home the bacon but treat his wife as his property just as a Chad would.

Alpha fucks and Alpha bucks.

Dionysus
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As somebody who still holds out hope for western civilisation, the more I read articles like this Rollo the more I feel convinced that this whole paradigm can’t possibly continue. I’d hazard a guess that if this is not a marker of imminent societal collapse or decline then honestly I don’t know what is. Do they not know what they do? Are they incapable of using even a smidgen of their pre-frontal cortex? Are they completely beholden to their reptilian brain? I know DNA doesn’t give a rats ass about out civilization, but holy hell, is what we’ve built not… Read more »

psaluva
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1 Mother, 2 Fathers, 3 Brothers, 99 problems Hey Rollo (& community), no clue if this is an appropriate means of contacting you personally but I didn’t find an email address. I’m also sure you’re busy, so if you get a chance to read this I’m happy. If not, maybe someone else can point me in a good direction. I’ll try to keep it snappy. I’m 26 today, my mother gave birth to me at the young age of 21, my dad is dad X. Three years, she decided that X shall not be the father of her child due… Read more »

Sentient
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Psaluva

Short answer.

Have them move in with you. Hold them accountable and push them. They will fail at times and struggle, embrace that as learning opportunities. Continue to push them and not give them everything. Eventually they will get the hang of things and move on.

You create the environment, and set them to task… They do the rest.

Good luck.

EhIntellect
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The amount of 40 y.o. married women convincing their husbands to adopt staggers me. I’ve known many. The men justify it with BP chilvalry.

Historically, lack of fecundity, male or female, was grounds for divorce.

My Dreamland Kingdom
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Reblogged this on My Dreamland Kingdom.

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