Transactional vs. Validational Sex

You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

This is one of my best known quotes because it resonates with so many men. There was a time in the early 2000s when I was doing peer counseling for men – most of whom were at least a decade my senior – as part of my undergraduate study and one consistent theme I got from almost all of them was how their marriages (or LTRs) had been so much more sexually satisfying when they were dating their wives or before they’d committed to some kind of exclusivity. That’s always the crux of it for guys. They mistakenly believed that the hot monkey sex they were having with their women prior to “doing the right thing” and getting married or committed was something that would be characteristic of their quality woman into a long term relationship with them.

Why was this the case for guys? I can remember coming up with this quote as part of the advice I was giving while working for one of these men. He, like many of the other guys, had gotten to the point that he would do almost anything to get back to that real desire that convinced him to commit to his wife in the first place. And, like many of these guys, he’d convinced his wife to go to marriage counseling in order to find out what exactly it was that he needed to do to “get her to come around” to wanting to bang him. Nothing was working for him. Even after his sessions he was still either sexless or his wife only begrudgingly would have lackluster ‘starfish’ sex with him. We called that a ‘grudge fuck’ back then.

As a student of behavioral psychology my interest was (still is) in what motivates or incentivizes behavior in people (sometimes animals). What was it that inspires genuine desire as opposed to behavior that still has a purpose, but was more motivated by future outcome. You can make a case that genuine desire is also motivated by a perceived outcome, but in this instance I’m making a distinction between a natural, unsolicited desire as opposed to an incentive based on a preconceived outcome – if all goes according to plan.

This guy broke down in tears with me on at least two occasions. He just couldn’t understand why what was supposed to work (open communication, rational discourse and honest negotiation) wasn’t getting her to “come around” to having sex with him. It was then I thought, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. Either a woman wants  to fuck you or she doesn’t. There are definitely ways to prompt that genuine desire – most of which are behavioral and conditional – but as has been stated many times in the ‘sphere, attraction is not a choice. The key word there is choice. Few men would ‘choose’ to be attracted by an obese woman and in many ways this choice dynamic is why women promoting the ‘body acceptance’ narrative have a tough time of it. For all the nonsense about beauty being a social construct, arousal for men is very much rooted in evolved biology. Men can’t choose to get an erection for a woman they’re simply not aroused by.

The same holds true for women, but the conditions are different. Women can and do have sex for reasons other than genuine desire. Negotiated desire really isn’t desire at all, but women have readily used sexual access to achieve those perceived outcomes I mentioned above here. Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. A talented hooker or stripper may be very convincing in her act that she’s really into having sex with a man, but the negotiation that takes place before the act can never make a woman want to have sex with her client. Attraction is not a choice, but really, arousal is not a choice either.

Hormonal

I am presently about half way through my read of Dr. Martie Haselton’s new book Hormonal. I was really anticipating this book’s release, and I had intended to do my first-ever book review of it here, but as I read through I’ve decided not to. I still highly recommend reading it. As you might guess it’s chock full of stats and research confirmation of so much of what I write here that I want to put it at the top of the required Rational Male reading list. I’ve been referencing Dr. Haselton’s (and her colleagues) work since I began this blog, but the delivery of the information was disappointing, and in a lot of instances, very immature and sophomoric. It’s written almost as an apologetic to feminists for having to kill a lot of sacred feminist social convention cows. I feel as if she’s writing ‘down’ to the women who she’ll inevitably market this book to, but, if you can get past her constant attempts to legitimize her feminist credentials, the information is absolute gold.

One aspect of female sexual dynamics that Haselton and her team detail quite a bit is the idea of an Estrus state in human females. I’m not sure how well appreciated this research is in the manosphere, which is one reason I included it in Positive Masculinity, but this concept is really integral to how we define Hypergamy. As most of my readers know, Hypergamy – women’s dualistic sexual strategy (and really life strategy) – is much more than a tendency of a woman to ‘marry up’. In Hormonal the ideas of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks really solidify with the research.

However, as useful as it is as a catchy euphemism Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks could better be described as Alpha Seed and Beta Need. In a woman’s peak ovulatory phase of her menstrual cycle she enters an estrus state and becomes subject to behaviors that can only be defined as a pretext of seeking Alpha seed. In other words, nature and Hypergamy are very practical in maximizing the chances that a woman may get pregnant with the best available genetic specimen. Granted, the true outcome of all of that is subject to environment and a woman’s personal conditions, but the practicality of it remains the same as it has for 100,000 years. It’s also important to keep in mind that a woman’s behaviors, strategies, rationales and her own interpretation of all of them in those various times and conditions are also a part of the overall latent purpose of a woman consolidating on the best Alpha Seed and Beta to supply her needs.

While women are subject to an estrus state they still require the second half of Hypergamy – the Beta need for security, provisioning, protection, comfort and at least the sharing of parental investment responsibilities for any offspring. Estrus in women is concealed, meaning it is (or used to be) nearly, but not totally undetectable in women. There are in fact various ways men evolved to intuitively determine whether a woman is in an estrus state of fertility; most of these today are socially shamed in men so as to further confuse them and advantage women, but that’s a topic for another essay. A concealed estrus aids women in optimizing both Alpha Seed and Beta Need and it’s likely that much of what accounts for women’s sexual strategy is the result of this concealment.

Now, a lot has been written by myself and others about the impact of meeting a woman’s Beta Need aspect of Hypergamy being served by the state and/or direct or indirect transfers of resources from men to women. Most of my readers are well aware of how this side of Hypergamy has been progressively accommodated for over the past fifty years. In spite of this it’s important to remember that this accommodation of provisioning needs doesn’t eliminate the deeper needs that this side of Hypergamy engenders in women. It may be true that women have never been better provided for in history as far as money and opportunities go, but women still look for emotional security, protection, dominance and comfort in men as part of their innate mental firmware.

As a result of Hypergamy and this concealed estrus state women have been put into a condition of evaluating sex in different aspects today.

Validational Sex

When women look for that Alpha Seed in their peak ovulatory (proliferative) phase, the sex they seek is a desired sex with a man who meets evolutionary criteria. He’s the ‘hawt’ guy, or the man who leaves a woman with an perception of danger or excitement. A lot of men who don’t meet this criteria have a tendency to over-exaggerate this type of man as the ‘Alpha Chad’ and make a ridiculous parody of him as an ego protection mechanism for themselves. Let me state for the record here that every aspect and adjective that this type of guy embodies is mitigated by conditions and contexts. It is just as likely that this conventionally masculine dominant guy is only so according to his most immediate social situation. So spare me the “Chad Thundercock” anxieties.

The sex that women give “enthusiastic consent” for is validational for them. The easy assessment here is that women have a genuine desire to mate with conventionally masculine men who look and act the part – yes, behavioral congruency is vital. If you follow the research women consciously and unconsciously will actively put themselves into environments where the likelihood of their meeting a dominant masculine man who most closely matched that masculine ideal when they are in estrus. They openly and discreetly look of arousal cue from men who best embody what can only be described as Alpha Seed.

I should also add that women in “satisfying relationships” (meaning LTRs where a woman is still very hot for her husband/boyfriend) report an increase in sexual desire (proceptivity) for that guy during this phase. A lot of guys mistakenly think ANY woman will want to seek out extra-pair mating (cheating) opportunities when they’re in estrus. This is only true if a woman isn’t into her current man.

I don’t want to get too lost in the descriptions here. Rather, I want to focus on the associative feelings women get in and after having sex with that Alpha man during estrus. I would argue that Alpha Widows are made in the estrus phase. This is the sex women want to have and are enthusiastic in both the hunt and the act itself. This is largely (presumedly) the sex that men have with their wives-to-be before they marry. It’s this validational sex, the sex that women fantasize about, that men and women want to get back to once they are committed to each other monogamously but now have a dead bedroom. This sex validates a woman’s ego in that it proves to herself that a man of this SMV caliber would want to pin her to the bed and have marathon sex with her. Remember, the latent purpose of this sex, on this side of Hypergamy, is to access the sperm from men with high reproductive value as defined by what our evolved nature predisposes women to be aroused by. Validational sex is sex by choice and genuine desire, and is satisfying on both a psychological level and an evolutionary level.

Transactional Sex

One of the benefits of a concealed estrus is that it allows women a few luxuries. One of these was the ability to confuse men of their paternity. Today this confusion is little more difficult because we’ve got DNA figured out well enough to make accurate assessments, but in our evolutionary past it was important to trick cuckolded fathers into second guessing whether a child was his or not before he killed it and impregnated a woman on his own (this is also why men evolved mate guarding behaviors).

The other advantage of concealed estrus was essentially prostitution. Now, to pretty this up a bit, lets say that women who were sexual with men outside of their fertility window found that sex could be leveraged with non-Alpha men (men they didn’t want to have children with) to encourage them to help with a lot of the chores more Alpha men were less willing (but not entirely unwilling) to do. Enter transactional sex.

As mentioned, the most overt form of transactional sex is prostitution, but it’s impolite to call every woman a whore. In fact it’s impolite to even imply a woman may be having sex for other reasons than validational sex. Today women are contemplating whether or not transactional sex is itself rape since it technically meets the definition of rape (sex women don’t want to have). I discussed this “grey area sex” recently in another essay, but it’s interesting to see women wrestle with transactional sex in an era where the Future is Female and women ought to only have the (validational) sex they want to enthusiastically have.

For most men (i.e the 80% Beta men) transactional sex is where the rubber meets the road. In fact, I’d argue that for most Beta men transactional sex is the only definition of sex they ever really know. That’s kind of sad to think about, but most men never really experience the unfettered feral lust of a woman they’ve chosen to spend the rest of their lives with. I got into this in Saving the Best and Hats Off to the Bull, but I think it’s important for the average man today to acknowledge that it’s highly likely that their wives have shared parts of themselves with, and have lost all inhibitions with, men in their sexual pasts they may never know anything about. That’s a cold bucket of reality a lot of men who unplug from all this have to confront.

Marriage today is almost entirely predicated on on the transactional sex side of Hypergamy. I’m not saying it has to be, nor am I saying it always is, but I’m fairly comfortable in speculating that for most married women sex is reward she uses in the operant conditioning of her husband. And the very fact that this is effective with most husbands throws the power dynamic and Frame of the relationship firmly over to the wife. This has the effect of disqualifying that man from ever (or very rarely) being a candidate for validational sex within that marriage. And this too is another aspect of the transactional sex dynamic that modern feminists are contemplating today – if a woman doesn’t want to have sex with her husband, but does anyway, is it rape? But again, NAMALT, not all marriages are like this or have to be like this. I would also argue that a confident man whom a woman admires, who she recognizes as being above her SMV even if slightly and who has internalized Red Pill awareness within that marriage needn’t be doomed to transactional “duty” sex in his marriage.

Unnegotiated Desire

And so now we come full circle to the men I was counseling back in the day. Because all they’d ever known was transactional sex their deductive male brains attempted to solve their “sex problem” in the most logistical and pragmatic way – negotiate with her. If all sex ever is for a guy is a transaction – a quid pro quo – then it follows he’ll try to find the best way to ‘pay’ for his wife’s sexual access. Hunter Drew and I were recently discussing a man who Dean Abbot has been counseling and one thing we’ve all seen a lot of from young and old Blue Pill Beta men is this logical tendency for them to want to ‘sacrifice their way to happiness with their wives’. It’s as if the more they sacrifice the more they pay for that intimacy they seek, but what they never get is that this only buries their sex lives that much more.

One amazing turn around a lot of married and single Red Pill guys experience when they unplug is the attention they receive from women when they switch from a transactional disposition to a validational disposition with regard to sex. When a man unplugs and cuts himself away from his Blue Pill conditioning one change he makes is a shift from viewing sex as transactional to validational. In the beginning, when men are first learning Game and becoming more Red Pill aware about the nature of women they really don’t recognize this shift in attitude towards sex. When I say men need to make themselves the “prize” with regards to sex and their attention what happens is they go from the “how can I pay for sex to qualify for it with a woman” to “women will recognize that I represent and opportunity for validational sex”.

The Blue Pill conditions men to base their understanding of sex on a transactional paradigm. It’s all scarcity, and luck or providence that a woman might want to fuck them. This is why women get aggravated by the presumption that men might feel they are ‘owed sex‘ in exchange for what they do for them. And why wouldn’t men feel that way? They’ve been conditioned for half a life to believe that they should follow the old social contract and become a man with a lot to offer a woman, a wife. This is the transactional paradigm; I build my life to better accommodate a woman and she reciprocates with sex. Women know this too, so all pretenses of indignation about are complete bullshit. What upsets women is that a Beta man would feel entitled to her sexuality for having accommodated her. Alpha men are entitled to it, accommodations be damned, because he’s the man they want to have sex with.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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mersonia
4 years ago

@Sentient

One of these days you’ll quit whining about the fact that your theory falls apart so quickly.

Also when debunking something you don’t have to have a counter-assertion.

anyways I’ll write up something to help you out since you guys are obviously in such dire need.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Welcome to the Big Boy table Mersonia.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Last video from me for today.

…most likely

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QGXwuunr8Y&w=1280&h=720%5D

Limits.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

” not that guy ”

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVi3oPufVPg&w=1280&h=720%5D

j
j
4 years ago

@fleezer the geezer

“solid breakdown.”

+1 from me as well. You’re good at this man

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Love that Spud Webb 1986 NBA slam dunk vid. Huge athleticism, Gotta respect that. I was once a 5’9″ red-haired Irish boy, and I managed to work up to the dunk. Feelz like levitation for a small man. How did I do it? – when i was 13 I got picked last for the community league team (first time trying out, just thought it would be fun). There wasn’t that many guys trying out so, just two kids were gonna get cut from that try-out. I was small at that age. The writing was on the wall – not hard… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Okay, last one because this Goggins dude is saying what I’ve been trying to convey. Now I’ll let it go. [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLzziJ9bbc&w=1280&h=720%5D @ Wild Man The company I used to work for, had a fully equipped gym on campus with a basketball court and tennis court. I worked with a dude that was at one time a semi-pro b-ball player, 6’6″ and he could barely dunk. He laughed and made fun of me for thinking that (( I )) with my barely 6 foot ass, could dunk. So I bought my sneakers to work every day, and on our lunch… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… and it might take a year. Lol.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@anon

But can they get laid while playing blitz?

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Hey, Yellow Comanche…

just wanted to mess with ya

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Blax – I’m sure you can do it. Getting really lean (if you’re not already) will help. Nice anecdote about 6-weeks-to-the-dunk. Surprising what one can do if one puts in consistent effort and doesn’t give up. The key actually is – don’t give up. Getting mad can help with that (at least for some like me that has been blessed/cursed with the Irish temperament for bloodlust – gotta always be allowing for a positive outlet for that). A year ago I was 195. I’m at 170 now. I was pretty strong and athletic at 195, but ….. the weird waistline… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

Gamer: “But can they get laid while playing blitz?”

Most definitely.

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

@ scribb “Figure out what your skills are, your power, and what social settings you can groove in and build status there. Be grounded in reality, make steady, incremental progress. Set realistic goals and grind every day. Don’t give into fanciful thinking, Hope is not a strategy. You were not “born to do” anything. Life is hard, fortune can fuck over anyone. Don’t look at the exceptions to understand the rules…” You nailed it right there, buddy. I recently offered a wicked 20 second piece of one of my tracks that totally complemented a promo animation that currently doesn’t have… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

Blax is killing it on this thread. No one is saying that hard limitations don’t exist for men (physical, mental or whatever). I’m obviously never going to be an astronaut or in the NBA. The point is that in 99.99% of cases, men are nowhere near their hard limits (which are in any case much, much further out than most people think). The limiting factor isn’t the “hard limit” – it’s mental – it’s will, desire, hunger, belief in yourselves or whatever else you want to call it. That’s what Blax is trying to get at. I remember years ago… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

That should read “it becomes a buffer *and an excuse to do nothing*”

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZwmmORsK0M
Family and sex…
Sex with a sensei or with a record store owner?

cheupez
4 years ago

A lot has been said about alpha and DPA. But I have found the most reliable indicator of alpha is not what men think about you. Rather it is what women do with you. If women are out to get you to fuck them, you are likely alpha. [Exception is when you realise the woman is using you as a toy. She wants to get off. Once she cums, she immediately wants to chase you out of her house, only to call you again at wierd hours when the craving starts. Such a woman could be an alpha window and… Read more »

constrainedlocus
4 years ago

@Blax About the “Why I don’t respect married men” vid. Thank you. Very informative. I think he is correct. I believe Rollo mentioned in a previous post of his that whenever women might ask (or would vehemently require) sexual exclusivity from a man (e.g. “John? I really need to know where this is headed. What do I mean to you?”) then they are making such a request from a place of smallness, weakness, desperation, vulnerability and powerlessness. And they fucking hate it. Men must not give in to this request and should just decline and remain non-exclusive. A beta male… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

I assumed that school was a question answering contest, so I raised my hand to answer every question. Then I started to notice this bothered other kids. Then I noticed it started to annoy the teacher. Then I noticed she’d only call on me when she wanted to move the class along. Then I stopped raising my hand, moved to the back of the classroom and began fucking with everyone and everything… i resemble that remark. I think 5th grade was when I began fucking with everyone and everything. Just to make something interesting happen. My teachers were quite indulgent… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

j
March 13, 2018 at 9:21 am

However, if you want to become the best plumbing contractor in Bemidji

My college roommate was from Bemidji. I was a big city boy from Omaha. LOL.

M Simon
4 years ago

j March 13, 2018 at 9:33 am “There is a class of woman out there (of all SMVs, dog to dime) who find intelligence a real turn on.” The LTR picked me in part because of my brain power. Her “rules” also included, “No betas.” I was interested in her in part because she had passed trig. I was doing a lot of geodesics at the time. To make a LTR work she has to be less intelligent than you. But about 1 standard deviation is the limit. Otherwise she is not smart enough to get your jokes. Funny enough… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

constrainedlocus
March 13, 2018 at 3:12 pm

I have been explaining to the LTR that strong feelings of desire ARE the romance.

After 40+ years she is starting to get it.

What irks her most is that dread games get her excited. And dread games are so unromantic. LOL.

M Simon
4 years ago

The Solitary Silver FoX
March 13, 2018 at 6:55 pm

I’m working with some guys who are wizes at chemistry but know nothing about electronics. Their project is mainly electronic (with some chemistry). Watching them fail is painful. But I don’t give near as much free advice as I used to.

Hilarious is when they tell the people they have contracted how to lay out their board – how the connections should be made. They have no idea about the difference between “reference voltage” and “ground”. This is for a sensitive analog circuit.

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

Hey Blax, IQ actually does predict many social outcomes and the limits of what an individual can achieve in life in many ways. For example, if you have an IQ of 85 or below (as 51 million people do in the U.S.) you likely cannot find a job, or keep one if you get it. You likely cannot handle most complex tasks required to live life in today’s world. You will have social problems and also be stigmatized. Tell me, what do we do with those 51 million people? Tell them to “go for, it, you can be anything you… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@M Simon

I know a little, rusty bit about physics and chemistry, but nothing about circuits, so I can empathize with your co-workers.

j
j
4 years ago
M Simon
4 years ago

scribblerg
March 14, 2018 at 7:26 am

Everything helps. But if you don’t have mindset you are lost.

I had the assets (tall, lean, brains) at age 17. But until I got my mindset at age 18 I was lost.

And here you are – until you got your mindset you had problems.

M Simon
4 years ago

j March 14, 2018 at 7:37 am What a sweet story. She even had his babies. Proving how much she really liked him. Well actually she didn’t have his babies. And after 4 years she stopped going with him. And her motive (as far as I can tell) – she wanted to be agreeable. Once my “n” was above 4 or 5 I stopped going after women who were willing to be agreeable. If she wasn’t raging for it I wasn’t interested. BTW you have an anecdote. I was looking at the general population. If you were a betting man… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

“And the truth is that for most men, you can’t be whatever and whoever you want to be. Rather, you are better served by taking a personal inventory, seeing what your assets and abilities and situation are, and then making a plan that builds on your strengths.” Scrib – right you are right there, and I don’t think anybody here is arguing against that. You also said (referencing the ‘disadvantaged’, smarts-wise, but this sentiment is common with references to a whole host of varieties of ‘disadvantaged’, inclusive of the type that are close to average in the smarts department, but… Read more »

j
j
4 years ago

@M Simon “And oh, by the way… I DID end up getting married, ten years later, and guess what? The man I married was incredibly smart. He was able to solve the Rubik’s Cube in under 3 minutes, each and every single time. His shelves were filled with books about physics and aero-engineering – which is what he had his degree in. He could do anything, fix anything, figure anything out – and was like a walking encyclopedia. BUT… I was nowhere as happy with him as I was with my low-IQ guy, who had a heart the size of… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Women want to marry up and across social hierarchies.

Marrying or a LTR with a box of rocks is not a move up in social status.

j
j
4 years ago

The followup to the first story if you (or any one else wants to read)

https://www.quora.com/profile/Zoletta-Cherrystone/Posts/A-Follow-Up-to-The-Unintelligent-Man

j
j
4 years ago

“Women want to marry up and across social hierarchies.

Marrying or a LTR with a box of rocks is not a move up in social status.”

yeah i don’t give a shit what they want. I’m just here to have fun relationships with young fun silly beautiful girls in the limited amount of time I have on this planet

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

I’ve made my argument very clear in numerous ways. There is some truth in what Scrib says, ironically, that some guys just can’t. Let all those here with functioning eyeballs read and heed. Excuses=Excuses. Life does have some very hard truths for some people at various points in their lives, but ” truth ” doesn’t always have to be mean, harsh and nasty. That’s a peculiarity within the manosphere and real actual life can and should be much different. If a man is satisfied with his life, then that’s cooler than a fan. Live and let live. If a man… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ j

Agree. Just be aware that you will outlive your current expectations.

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

is the successful red pill integration spectrum 80/20…90/10…. worse?

jim carrey meltdown = consistently observable reaction to the pill

jim = insecure outsider constantly trying to please others = weak frame

weak frame + red pill = meltdown

red pill is a fucking flamethrower

supervision required

thanks Rollo

j
j
4 years ago

“There is no gene for the human spirit”

M Simon
4 years ago

j
March 14, 2018 at 8:08 am

Stupid girl. She wasn’t good enough to get an alpha with brains.

My LTR would settle for nothing less. What would I rate her (the LTR) on the HB scale? About a 9.

(I have had men asking me all the time, “How did YOU get HER?” about the various girls I went out with. So my estimation of her HB# is probably in the ball park).

===

Both sides of the story are saying “this girl had to settle”. And what kind of girl is that? A low value girl.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Re: Mindset.

If you see yourself as some manner of flawed failure, how will that work out in life? Do we ever see any examples? Is there any way, pray tell, that we can sus this out?

Blue pill be red pill? Is blue pill genetic? Is blue pill related to IQ?

I would ask Rollo, but I’ve read and watched enough to already know what his answer would be.

Maybe I could just keep posting up real life examples, as there are millions of them.

Mindset. It will make or break you right out of the gate.

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Scrib – maybe this will make more sense to you. Why didn’t you say?: ‘And the truth is that for ALL men, you can’t be whatever and whoever you want to be. Rather, you are better served by taking a personal inventory, seeing what your assets and abilities and situation are, and then making a plan that builds on your strengths.’ Examine why you chose to say ‘most’ instead of ‘all’. Because the truth is we all are severely constrained in one way or another with respect to ‘being whatever and whomever one want’s to be’. Is there any reason… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… That should read ” blue pill vs red pill ” above.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago

Wondering if you get your needs meet an a primal level why would their ever be a need to validate or have a transaction of affection?
https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a33555/esquire-cosmopolitan-sex-survey/
Does the hierarchy of connection become more rooted in behavior than in the though process of acquired human intimacy?
https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a57025/the-great-esquire-sex-study-infographic/
Or does age grace the male with the burden of performance over the females lack of interest or short time frame of putting her self together?
https://www.esquire.com/uk/life/sex-relationships/news/a17257/men-go-off-sex-a-lot-sooner-than-women-says-sexual-attitudes-survey/
Sometimes i wonder if men hold out that life finds a way to piece itself together.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

weak frame + red pill = meltdown

red pill is a fucking flamethrower

supervision required

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/7lolrm/thoughts_on_frame/?ref=share&ref_source=link

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“This doesn’t mean that you don’t listen to the ideas and criticisms of others whom you respect or never change your worldview when you agree (else why are you even here?), but it means that others’ criticisms are merely “data” to you and only affect your own opinions and emotions if, after evaluation, you agree with them.” I heard the exact same advice voiced on Dr. Laura yesterday. A caller asked how she could deal with all the outside advice and criticism. Dr. Laura responded that she had her own personal rule: Unless she has respect for the other person,… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

SJF – yes, to my mind, the quote you provided above is starting to come closer towards better descriptions of these redpill concepts. But not close enough. First off, note the Rollo (rightfully so I think) also uses the applied ‘Frame’ concept in a way that recognizes the give and take of social situations whereby ‘Frame’ is therefore also understood to be malleable, exceedingly responsive to the minute lunge, parry, recover, remise, and overall riposte flavor of all the actions occurring during social interactions. So, the way the author your are quoting is using the ‘Frame’ concept in the “Developing… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

“as appropriate across varying social spheres, and ever-changing circumstances within each sphere, THAT WILL ENHANCE SAID OUTCOMES”.

To get a good read on what ‘that will enhance said outcomes’ entails, see Sentient’s DPA concepts (and his ‘Platinum Rule’ properly understood).

M Simon
4 years ago

Blaximus
March 14, 2018 at 8:32 am

Blue pill be red pill? Is blue pill genetic? Is blue pill related to IQ?

Was discussing this with the LTR not too long after you posted it. (I will sometimes run by her discussions going on here to get her thoughts.) Her opinion is that you have to be smart to be alpha. But that may just be her bias/definition.

M Simon
4 years ago

rugby11
March 14, 2018 at 9:30 am

In that video I imagine her as expressing her situation and behavior rather than projecting her discontent on him.

M Simon
4 years ago

M Simon
March 14, 2018 at 10:46 am

Wish I knew how to find him. I have some projects that would be right up his alley.

anon
anon
4 years ago

Disgraced former CIA Director David Petraeus exchanged a sexually explicit email about having sex under a desk with his mistress and continued to pursue her by bombarding her with thousands of messages even after she had broken off the affair it has been revealed.

Where did this quote originate, Rollo?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Rollo

Your earlier analysis of Petraeus as a power wielding inexperienced beta holds up well in light of The Weinstein et al…

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago
Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
4 years ago

Petraeus can be seen as an archetype. There are, and have been a multitude like him. They command men with skill and swagger. Then they go home and act just like a thousand other AFCs around their wives and daughters. Blue Pill Alphas.

Broadwell was his work wife. Plenty of Generals and Admirals have these, women in the vicinity that openly admire and respect them in a way their own women don’t, they just don’t (usually) take it as far as he did.

anon
anon
4 years ago

Thanks for the link Rollo (and Gamer). That’s hilarious! 😆 And…most of the article is apocryphal. Broadwell didn’t break up with Petraeus. Nor did the breakup happen after he became CIA director (he shared the security information with Broadwell when he was CIA director). What happened was this: Broadwell (the mistress) became jealous when she believed Petraeus was “cheating” on her with another woman (Jill Kelly). She sent Kelly anonymous threats and Kelly, who had a male “friend” in the FBI, reported the threats to him. He investigated and found the culprit….and a whole lot more. Petraeus’ first wife wasn’t… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
4 years ago

Yo. Pants on again, sobered up a little…

M Simon
4 years ago

March 14, 2018 at 11:08 am

My condolences.

walawala
walawala
4 years ago

Petraeus was a nice guy. The polar opposite to him would be Mike Pence who I see as much more alpha: refuses to be in a room alone with another woman, quiet, loyal to Trump, solid in his beliefs.

Whenever he speaks he’s always in control. He reminds me of James Bond.

Oscar C.
4 years ago

@scribblerg Enjoying your posts, I can empathize up to a certain degree. I was a very good student from early on, but unlike you more out of reading and studying, rather than being gifted. I also raised my hand a lot and was ever the guy asking questions, but my classmates kinda liked that… nobody but me dared to ask. @Blax’s perspective as a black man is also very welcome, because the manosphere often overlaps with the alt-right, mainly through the Château Heartiste vortex and his many fixations… Trade-off is the key concept IMO. You can not equally kill it… Read more »

mersonia
4 years ago

“If you are working your ass off to make some money you are probably not becoming an expert womanizer at the same time. That YaReally guy used to comment on him being near-broke IIRC.”

You can do both….. He just didn’t advise cause most people can’t handle both……….Honestly that was terrible advice but nowadays alot of people can’t handle anything so

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Oscar Yo Man!!! Let’s take @j for a second. J is a young lion. I read all of his fr’s and smile because at his tender age, he’s doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing. Sure, I rib him about not wasting too much time, because I believe that we all need to be earning as soon as we can, but I still think J is correct. He gives zero fucks about relationships or anything, and he just wants to smash like Hulk. When J gets a XX -XXX ” N ” count, his focus will change a… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Rollo Please do a post on Fem/Stem darling and fraudster Elizabeth Holmes… https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-03-14/theranos-misled-investors-and-consumers-who-used-its-blood-test Blue eyed blonde huckster… Finance beta dorks who are smarter and paid to know better get woozy… To the tune of $700m lost. But but but she said she was drunk? That never happened before dude! And The Narrative was relentless in proclaiming her Queen Genius. And a multi billionare… http://entremarketing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Elizabeth-Holmes-fortune-magazine.jpg Of course if your best business advice is to set yourself on fire. 🔥… Maybe she was seeding a defense? reminds me of a similar woman in tech in the late 90s… She was pimped on… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

SJF – Here is a good article by Roosh I came across this evening that demonstrates the malleable nature of applied Frame in action, as I defined above: http://www.returnofkings.com/160752/dont-let-a-girl-assert-frame-over-you Roosh’s article also demonstrates the need to develop DHA (dominance hierarchy awareness) in order to work the MPoO dynamic, (as I defined above). Since one is operating or working the MPoO dynamic in order to ‘manage one’s own motivational cognitive structures in a way that will provide oneself with better life outcomes for oneself, and by extension for one’s social groups’, by way of these social-micro-choices (choosing particular points along one’s… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Sentient – Heartiste has posted a short vid of interview with Elizabeth Holmes. Extremely weird. Extraordinarily large eyes (estrogen dominance). But her voice – bordering on man-voice (at 5’5″). Lots of incongruence there. In that short vid Heartieste posted, she comes off as cyborg-like. This whole Theranos spectacle is deeply weird.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

What the fuck are you talking about Wild Man? The Roosh article is 14 y.o. audience pandering. Talk about regression and pandering for clicks. YGBFSM. That’s not wisdom, that’s a dad telling his high school son to clean up his room and have hand with chicks. I can’t even understand your drivel. Stop using your words. They are like finger nails screeching on a chalkboard. Use attractive comments, not unattractive ones. And stop mentally masturbating in a male only space. What pray, love are you getting at? How are you advancing the ball? What the hell is your point? What… Read more »

LS
LS
4 years ago

As they say, you can’t argue with a hard-on.

Then again, you can’t argue with a lack of one.

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

SJF – You actually don’t understand what I wrote? I doubt that – more likely you haven’t tried. Start somewhere. Take one piece of my thesis and tell me (rationally) what is bothering you about it. By way of you posting history here, you have never wavered from displaying a substantial interest in redpill theoretics. I expect a better response from you.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

I’m totally indifferent. It’s drivel. Life’s too short to talk like that. I’m not interested in theoretics which for you is code for ideology. You have an agenda that you are not declaring. Theoretics is just a cover for mental masturbation. STOP WITH THE WHAT SHOULD BE Wild Man……. That’s not what is going on. Not what anyone should be here for. Buy a clue. I have a interest in Red Pill Praxeology. What can get me more sex with my good wife. What can get my son laid and get him to understand that his hot babe 20 year-old… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

Shit, Bueller, Bueller? Wild Man?

https://youtu.be/uhiCFdWeQfA

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

How the hell did I forget to mention this Mr. Wild Man?

https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k

Be better than your ego. Contribute to the cause here, but realize what the cause actually is.

What is your cause? What are you aiming for on a Red Pill blog?

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

SJF – Given our ancient history I guess a bit of introductory snark is understandable. Otherwise – I tip my hat to you – that was a much better response. “Hierarchy Smierarchy “- good starting point. I maintain that an understanding of the pervasiveness (and often subliminal nature) of dominance hierarchies among all innervated social species (of which humans are intensely social) is a primary prerequisite for any good handle on redpill concepts. Jordan Peterson does a very good job of outlining the nature of dominance hierarchies in Chapter 1 of his new book – ’12 Rules for Life: An… Read more »

Mega
Mega
4 years ago

Gonna make one last comment on my topic and frankly I’ve had contention on that here, before. That 00% of 5-7, 140 lb, dweebs, of average IQ, raise by a single mom … that would be 99% of them will never be an Alpha … no matter how hard they try. Its not a mindset. And men can’t become Alpha… just by choosing too. For all the assholes here … who think that … you can’t also choose to become Super Man, Santa Clause … or the Easter Bunny either. No matter how hard you try … and you fake… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Mega – just a side note on the Tom Brady thing:

http://www.justjared.com/2015/03/23/tom-brady-goes-shirtless-for-costa-rica-beach-stroll/

There is no way Tom Brady is any where near 5% body fat. I’m probably around 12% and I look profoundly more fit than that.

Mega
Mega
4 years ago

Jesus, Rollo, really ? I’m a purple pill troll who hates PUAs ??? You read anything I had to say ? Consider any of it ? Think about any of it ? Reminds me of something I read today on the sad passing of Stephen Hawking. Someone commented on how they were disappointed about how he never won the Nobel Prize. And it was pointed out that he (Hawking) really had not uncovered anything revolutionary since 1974. Should he get the Nobel for that ? Maybe, actually. Then the discussion went to Einstein who did the same. The best THINKING… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
4 years ago

Mega – your request for more theoretics around later stage aging of women (and men for that matter). I for one liked that query. Because the ways these insights work, any insights we gain there, is gonna shed light on the whole thing. That’s the way it works. Redpill by definition is a wholistic endeavor. Everything is related to everything else. Redpill query pretty much touches on every human activity. Look – for whatever it’s worth – you seem to be confusing male psychopathy with alpha. These categories certainly overlap somewhat in some ways, but they are different categories nevertheless… Read more »

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

@ scribb “And the truth is that for most men, you can’t be whatever and whoever you want to be. Rather, you are better served by taking a personal inventory, seeing what your assets and abilities and situation are, and then making a plan that builds on your strengths. Or you could run around constantly disappointed, and in a cycle of excitement, disillusionment, denial and then depression. And then start over again as each new burst of beating yourself up generates new resolve and then disappointment. Or you could live comfortably in your own skin. Grinding away daily at the… Read more »

LEX
LEX
4 years ago

Mega, go watch some of Owen RSD infield; plenty on youtube. A short, balding ginger stealing girls off of “alpha” types who are clueless and have no game. I love the never ending circular arguments around “what Alpha is”. Sure, being 6’4″ and having a sledgehammer jawline can help immensely. But it isn’t everything. Bruce Lee was 5’7″. Vasyl Lomachenko is 5’7″. You seen that fucker fight? Tryna tell me he’s not Alpha? Look at his eye contact in interviews. Look up some documentaries on Vasyl Lomachenko’s fighting skills and you will see that it was acquired through a hyper… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

For clarity of the record, I’ve never stated that Tom Brady was alpha. I give no fucks about who he’s married to, lol. And when I say men should push themselves, I guess I’m talking more about ” younger ” cats, so y’all older dudes my age can cease your chants of delusion, m’kay? Like I said a dozen times, if you say that you can’t…… I’ll add ” just because you can’t “…. For everyone else though, there’s no need to become jaded and negative as you get older. Fight that shit because it’s a shitty stereotypical thing that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

… Just with a shitload more money.

M Simon
4 years ago

Mega March 14, 2018 at 9:15 pm All I can do is tell you about me. At age 17 I was a dud. At 18 I got some information (“never apologize”) from a girl and it changed my life. Now maybe you can’t be 5′ 7″ and be an alpha. But you can also be 186.69cm and not be an alpha. (You CAN be a nerd – LOL). Mind set is a requisite. And the right mindset will help the 5′ 7″ guy. Maybe not as much as it will help the 6′ 2″ guy. But it WILL help. Why?… Read more »

M Simon
4 years ago

Mega March 14, 2018 at 10:41 pm frankly most people’s thinking gets stale with age, its normal. Endocannabinoid decline. Starts at around age 25 to 30. It was cultural wisdom for a time. “Never trust anyone over 30.” —– “Lather was 30 years old today, they took away all of his toys.” Fortunately there is in the US (in some places) a medicine for that. You might want to be a little less rigid in your thinking. Things are distributed. Are there 6′ alphas? Probably a lot. Are there 5′ alphas? A heck of a lot fewer. But there will… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Mega “Sentient and Blax define ALPHA as being successful with women and claim outliers as being reality. ” Blax can speak for Blax. I make no such claim. You really should read what one has written before making things up. I’ve said Alpha is attractive to women. What one does with Alpha from there is different entirely. The are tons of Alpha guys who have no idea women are attracted to them. I’ve also said Game is a language, the female language of seduction (verbal and physical communication) and has nothing to do with Alpha. It just so happens that… Read more »

Oscar C.
4 years ago

This ‘natural limits vs. mindset’ debate is a very American one, because Americanism is based on social advancement. The fact that some people lost before even starting destroys such ideal completely. ‘Meritocracy’ is tricky. On paper it does look good that seemingly all posts are open to those who prove more apt, but this also means that if you fail, it is your fault, and your fault alone. The stress this causes in people is enormous, and I think it explains a lot of the unhappiness around us. People in the past accepted way more readily their lot in life… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Mega

comment image

199th selected Tom Brady wasn’t TOM BRADY either…

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Who is the giant headed vampire posing with Rollo in that pic below?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Mega

A core beta characteristic is impotent rage…

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
4 years ago

@ Oscar C “This ‘natural limits vs. mindset’ debate is a very American one, because Americanism is based on social advancement. The fact that some people lost before even starting destroys such ideal completely. ‘Meritocracy’ is tricky. On paper it does look good that seemingly all posts are open to those who prove more apt, but this also means that if you fail, it is your fault, and your fault alone. The stress this causes in people is enormous, and I think it explains a lot of the unhappiness around us. People in the past accepted way more readily their… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

“Yo. Pants on again, sobered up a little…”

My condolences.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

And men can’t become Alpha

Men can’t improve themselves? Riiiiight.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

because Americanism is based on social advancement. The fact that some people lost before even starting destroys such ideal completely.

Yeah, it’s impossible for Europeans and Asians and African to improve their starting lots because they are born losers. lol

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Just with a shitload more money.

…but we all die weak and broke

I can be happy without much loot.

M Simon
4 years ago

Oscar C.
March 15, 2018 at 4:04 am

Without failure success is impossible.

Quality control is built on that idea. (What are the limits? Can you measure them?)

It is not just about meritocracy.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Glad to see you are taking an interest in hard questions though. This redpill thing seems to be an endless adventure. It takes a long time to absorb the current state of redpill knowledge (and separate what is worthy from what is not). I’m sure we are still just touching the surface of it. Hopefully these ideas will gain more mainstream traction and some more headway can be made via academia etc. In the meantime we do need to recognize that Rollo and others are doing their part to promote the current level of understanding (which I am sure is… Read more »

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