Transactional vs. Validational Sex

You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

This is one of my best known quotes because it resonates with so many men. There was a time in the early 2000s when I was doing peer counseling for men – most of whom were at least a decade my senior – as part of my undergraduate study and one consistent theme I got from almost all of them was how their marriages (or LTRs) had been so much more sexually satisfying when they were dating their wives or before they’d committed to some kind of exclusivity. That’s always the crux of it for guys. They mistakenly believed that the hot monkey sex they were having with their women prior to “doing the right thing” and getting married or committed was something that would be characteristic of their quality woman into a long term relationship with them.

Why was this the case for guys? I can remember coming up with this quote as part of the advice I was giving while working for one of these men. He, like many of the other guys, had gotten to the point that he would do almost anything to get back to that real desire that convinced him to commit to his wife in the first place. And, like many of these guys, he’d convinced his wife to go to marriage counseling in order to find out what exactly it was that he needed to do to “get her to come around” to wanting to bang him. Nothing was working for him. Even after his sessions he was still either sexless or his wife only begrudgingly would have lackluster ‘starfish’ sex with him. We called that a ‘grudge fuck’ back then.

As a student of behavioral psychology my interest was (still is) in what motivates or incentivizes behavior in people (sometimes animals). What was it that inspires genuine desire as opposed to behavior that still has a purpose, but was more motivated by future outcome. You can make a case that genuine desire is also motivated by a perceived outcome, but in this instance I’m making a distinction between a natural, unsolicited desire as opposed to an incentive based on a preconceived outcome – if all goes according to plan.

This guy broke down in tears with me on at least two occasions. He just couldn’t understand why what was supposed to work (open communication, rational discourse and honest negotiation) wasn’t getting her to “come around” to having sex with him. It was then I thought, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. Either a woman wants  to fuck you or she doesn’t. There are definitely ways to prompt that genuine desire – most of which are behavioral and conditional – but as has been stated many times in the ‘sphere, attraction is not a choice. The key word there is choice. Few men would ‘choose’ to be attracted by an obese woman and in many ways this choice dynamic is why women promoting the ‘body acceptance’ narrative have a tough time of it. For all the nonsense about beauty being a social construct, arousal for men is very much rooted in evolved biology. Men can’t choose to get an erection for a woman they’re simply not aroused by.

The same holds true for women, but the conditions are different. Women can and do have sex for reasons other than genuine desire. Negotiated desire really isn’t desire at all, but women have readily used sexual access to achieve those perceived outcomes I mentioned above here. Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. A talented hooker or stripper may be very convincing in her act that she’s really into having sex with a man, but the negotiation that takes place before the act can never make a woman want to have sex with her client. Attraction is not a choice, but really, arousal is not a choice either.

Hormonal

I am presently about half way through my read of Dr. Martie Haselton’s new book Hormonal. I was really anticipating this book’s release, and I had intended to do my first-ever book review of it here, but as I read through I’ve decided not to. I still highly recommend reading it. As you might guess it’s chock full of stats and research confirmation of so much of what I write here that I want to put it at the top of the required Rational Male reading list. I’ve been referencing Dr. Haselton’s (and her colleagues) work since I began this blog, but the delivery of the information was disappointing, and in a lot of instances, very immature and sophomoric. It’s written almost as an apologetic to feminists for having to kill a lot of sacred feminist social convention cows. I feel as if she’s writing ‘down’ to the women who she’ll inevitably market this book to, but, if you can get past her constant attempts to legitimize her feminist credentials, the information is absolute gold.

One aspect of female sexual dynamics that Haselton and her team detail quite a bit is the idea of an Estrus state in human females. I’m not sure how well appreciated this research is in the manosphere, which is one reason I included it in Positive Masculinity, but this concept is really integral to how we define Hypergamy. As most of my readers know, Hypergamy – women’s dualistic sexual strategy (and really life strategy) – is much more than a tendency of a woman to ‘marry up’. In Hormonal the ideas of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks really solidify with the research.

However, as useful as it is as a catchy euphemism Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks could better be described as Alpha Seed and Beta Need. In a woman’s peak ovulatory phase of her menstrual cycle she enters an estrus state and becomes subject to behaviors that can only be defined as a pretext of seeking Alpha seed. In other words, nature and Hypergamy are very practical in maximizing the chances that a woman may get pregnant with the best available genetic specimen. Granted, the true outcome of all of that is subject to environment and a woman’s personal conditions, but the practicality of it remains the same as it has for 100,000 years. It’s also important to keep in mind that a woman’s behaviors, strategies, rationales and her own interpretation of all of them in those various times and conditions are also a part of the overall latent purpose of a woman consolidating on the best Alpha Seed and Beta to supply her needs.

While women are subject to an estrus state they still require the second half of Hypergamy – the Beta need for security, provisioning, protection, comfort and at least the sharing of parental investment responsibilities for any offspring. Estrus in women is concealed, meaning it is (or used to be) nearly, but not totally undetectable in women. There are in fact various ways men evolved to intuitively determine whether a woman is in an estrus state of fertility; most of these today are socially shamed in men so as to further confuse them and advantage women, but that’s a topic for another essay. A concealed estrus aids women in optimizing both Alpha Seed and Beta Need and it’s likely that much of what accounts for women’s sexual strategy is the result of this concealment.

Now, a lot has been written by myself and others about the impact of meeting a woman’s Beta Need aspect of Hypergamy being served by the state and/or direct or indirect transfers of resources from men to women. Most of my readers are well aware of how this side of Hypergamy has been progressively accommodated for over the past fifty years. In spite of this it’s important to remember that this accommodation of provisioning needs doesn’t eliminate the deeper needs that this side of Hypergamy engenders in women. It may be true that women have never been better provided for in history as far as money and opportunities go, but women still look for emotional security, protection, dominance and comfort in men as part of their innate mental firmware.

As a result of Hypergamy and this concealed estrus state women have been put into a condition of evaluating sex in different aspects today.

Validational Sex

When women look for that Alpha Seed in their peak ovulatory (proliferative) phase, the sex they seek is a desired sex with a man who meets evolutionary criteria. He’s the ‘hawt’ guy, or the man who leaves a woman with an perception of danger or excitement. A lot of men who don’t meet this criteria have a tendency to over-exaggerate this type of man as the ‘Alpha Chad’ and make a ridiculous parody of him as an ego protection mechanism for themselves. Let me state for the record here that every aspect and adjective that this type of guy embodies is mitigated by conditions and contexts. It is just as likely that this conventionally masculine dominant guy is only so according to his most immediate social situation. So spare me the “Chad Thundercock” anxieties.

The sex that women give “enthusiastic consent” for is validational for them. The easy assessment here is that women have a genuine desire to mate with conventionally masculine men who look and act the part – yes, behavioral congruency is vital. If you follow the research women consciously and unconsciously will actively put themselves into environments where the likelihood of their meeting a dominant masculine man who most closely matched that masculine ideal when they are in estrus. They openly and discreetly look of arousal cue from men who best embody what can only be described as Alpha Seed.

I should also add that women in “satisfying relationships” (meaning LTRs where a woman is still very hot for her husband/boyfriend) report an increase in sexual desire (proceptivity) for that guy during this phase. A lot of guys mistakenly think ANY woman will want to seek out extra-pair mating (cheating) opportunities when they’re in estrus. This is only true if a woman isn’t into her current man.

I don’t want to get too lost in the descriptions here. Rather, I want to focus on the associative feelings women get in and after having sex with that Alpha man during estrus. I would argue that Alpha Widows are made in the estrus phase. This is the sex women want to have and are enthusiastic in both the hunt and the act itself. This is largely (presumedly) the sex that men have with their wives-to-be before they marry. It’s this validational sex, the sex that women fantasize about, that men and women want to get back to once they are committed to each other monogamously but now have a dead bedroom. This sex validates a woman’s ego in that it proves to herself that a man of this SMV caliber would want to pin her to the bed and have marathon sex with her. Remember, the latent purpose of this sex, on this side of Hypergamy, is to access the sperm from men with high reproductive value as defined by what our evolved nature predisposes women to be aroused by. Validational sex is sex by choice and genuine desire, and is satisfying on both a psychological level and an evolutionary level.

Transactional Sex

One of the benefits of a concealed estrus is that it allows women a few luxuries. One of these was the ability to confuse men of their paternity. Today this confusion is little more difficult because we’ve got DNA figured out well enough to make accurate assessments, but in our evolutionary past it was important to trick cuckolded fathers into second guessing whether a child was his or not before he killed it and impregnated a woman on his own (this is also why men evolved mate guarding behaviors).

The other advantage of concealed estrus was essentially prostitution. Now, to pretty this up a bit, lets say that women who were sexual with men outside of their fertility window found that sex could be leveraged with non-Alpha men (men they didn’t want to have children with) to encourage them to help with a lot of the chores more Alpha men were less willing (but not entirely unwilling) to do. Enter transactional sex.

As mentioned, the most overt form of transactional sex is prostitution, but it’s impolite to call every woman a whore. In fact it’s impolite to even imply a woman may be having sex for other reasons than validational sex. Today women are contemplating whether or not transactional sex is itself rape since it technically meets the definition of rape (sex women don’t want to have). I discussed this “grey area sex” recently in another essay, but it’s interesting to see women wrestle with transactional sex in an era where the Future is Female and women ought to only have the (validational) sex they want to enthusiastically have.

For most men (i.e the 80% Beta men) transactional sex is where the rubber meets the road. In fact, I’d argue that for most Beta men transactional sex is the only definition of sex they ever really know. That’s kind of sad to think about, but most men never really experience the unfettered feral lust of a woman they’ve chosen to spend the rest of their lives with. I got into this in Saving the Best and Hats Off to the Bull, but I think it’s important for the average man today to acknowledge that it’s highly likely that their wives have shared parts of themselves with, and have lost all inhibitions with, men in their sexual pasts they may never know anything about. That’s a cold bucket of reality a lot of men who unplug from all this have to confront.

Marriage today is almost entirely predicated on on the transactional sex side of Hypergamy. I’m not saying it has to be, nor am I saying it always is, but I’m fairly comfortable in speculating that for most married women sex is reward she uses in the operant conditioning of her husband. And the very fact that this is effective with most husbands throws the power dynamic and Frame of the relationship firmly over to the wife. This has the effect of disqualifying that man from ever (or very rarely) being a candidate for validational sex within that marriage. And this too is another aspect of the transactional sex dynamic that modern feminists are contemplating today – if a woman doesn’t want to have sex with her husband, but does anyway, is it rape? But again, NAMALT, not all marriages are like this or have to be like this. I would also argue that a confident man whom a woman admires, who she recognizes as being above her SMV even if slightly and who has internalized Red Pill awareness within that marriage needn’t be doomed to transactional “duty” sex in his marriage.

Unnegotiated Desire

And so now we come full circle to the men I was counseling back in the day. Because all they’d ever known was transactional sex their deductive male brains attempted to solve their “sex problem” in the most logistical and pragmatic way – negotiate with her. If all sex ever is for a guy is a transaction – a quid pro quo – then it follows he’ll try to find the best way to ‘pay’ for his wife’s sexual access. Hunter Drew and I were recently discussing a man who Dean Abbot has been counseling and one thing we’ve all seen a lot of from young and old Blue Pill Beta men is this logical tendency for them to want to ‘sacrifice their way to happiness with their wives’. It’s as if the more they sacrifice the more they pay for that intimacy they seek, but what they never get is that this only buries their sex lives that much more.

One amazing turn around a lot of married and single Red Pill guys experience when they unplug is the attention they receive from women when they switch from a transactional disposition to a validational disposition with regard to sex. When a man unplugs and cuts himself away from his Blue Pill conditioning one change he makes is a shift from viewing sex as transactional to validational. In the beginning, when men are first learning Game and becoming more Red Pill aware about the nature of women they really don’t recognize this shift in attitude towards sex. When I say men need to make themselves the “prize” with regards to sex and their attention what happens is they go from the “how can I pay for sex to qualify for it with a woman” to “women will recognize that I represent and opportunity for validational sex”.

The Blue Pill conditions men to base their understanding of sex on a transactional paradigm. It’s all scarcity, and luck or providence that a woman might want to fuck them. This is why women get aggravated by the presumption that men might feel they are ‘owed sex‘ in exchange for what they do for them. And why wouldn’t men feel that way? They’ve been conditioned for half a life to believe that they should follow the old social contract and become a man with a lot to offer a woman, a wife. This is the transactional paradigm; I build my life to better accommodate a woman and she reciprocates with sex. Women know this too, so all pretenses of indignation about are complete bullshit. What upsets women is that a Beta man would feel entitled to her sexuality for having accommodated her. Alpha men are entitled to it, accommodations be damned, because he’s the man they want to have sex with.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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anon
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Pilot friend of mine (United) did hops to Venezuela on the regular, when Chavez was alive.
He told me that none of the hotels (or major restaurants/touristy areas) accepted their own currency. They wanted US dollars (or US credit cards…which resolved to some place in the states, not Venezuela).

Blaximus
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Breaking dependence on debt driven fiat currency is a process. A long process. Not for the feint of heart.

And it will come with a heavy price.

kfg
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@Wild Man: You somehow think that foreign countries don’t have banks, governments and intelligence agencies, that somehow foreign countries (where most of the drugs, ya know, come from) are not related to the American drug trade? @Blax: Yes the price is heavy, but not paying it will impose a far heavier oruce -eventually So of course that is what we will do, because to fix it means we pay the price today, whereas to ignore it until it all goes to hell lets us enjoy watching the game today. My mom was due to return from a winter in Mexico… Read more »

kfg
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“oruce”

Touch typist on a compressed keyboard failure.

M Simon
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Blaximus
March 16, 2018 at 8:28 am

Venezuela got into trouble because it doesn’t control the price of oil.

M Simon
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Wild Man
March 16, 2018 at 8:47 am

The purpose of meditation and the rest is to quiet your internal noise maker so you can hear signals formerly lost in the noise. We ARE closer to GOD (what ever that means) than we think. To a very great extent it is built into our brains.

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“You somehow think that foreign countries don’t have banks, governments and intelligence agencies, that somehow foreign countries (where most of the drugs, ya know, come from) are not related to the American drug trade?” kfg – yes – I did get that. It’s the level of complicity I am wondering about. And how intentional it is. Is it by someone’s ( a cabal’s) design? Or is the complicity more-so a diffuse result of of the consequences of human nature? M Simon pointed our yesterday: “What irks me the most is that at least at the highest levels they understand the… Read more »

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Blax, I’m shocked, shocked (!!!) that POTUS would be involved in drug politics in a country like ours where drugs are so popular.

Wild Man, why in hell would such credulous simpletons like the apostles say shit like, “we cannot stop speaking of what we have seen and heard?” It’s almost like they relied on empirical evidence or something. This does not compute.

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Wild Man,

Just to add to your cog. diss. – Tojo (of Japanese WW2 fame) was involved in the Manchurian drug trade.

The secret advantage of the drug trade for the US is the high profits. It means other sectors can be run at a loss or low profit. Money launderers (banks) can get cuts as high as 30%.

You make the illegal sector more profitable by raising the perceived risk (“death for drug dealers”).

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theasdgamer
March 16, 2018 at 9:56 am

In the 60s something like this was going around (for obvious reasons):

“Believe in God? I don’t have to. I have seen him.”

kfg
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“It’s the level of complicity I am wondering about. And how intentional it is.” Why do you think they call it an “International banking system?” It wouldn’t work at all if they weren’t all in it together. The reserve banks share directors, the same names running the currencies of the various countries, all centralized in the currency exchanges. Your “money” (your debt notes) do not come from your government (they just take out the debt in your name, whether you like it or not), It comes from the directors of your reserve bank, which is networked with all the other… Read more »

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“You make the illegal sector more profitable by raising the perceived risk ”

Control the level of interdiction, control the price, while at the same time skimming The People to pay for the “interdiction.”

Sweeeeet!

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Owsley didn’t start making LSD to make money, he did it to flood the market with high grade shit at more or less cost and break the CIA’s price control (it wasn’t under interdiction yet, but the CIA controlled the supply. They had to make it illegal to give the CIA market control again).

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‘Mountain Song’ (version with muddy bass – I be like’in the way that vibrates inside): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g7khBWYiDI I liked your Jane’s Addiction reference. ‘God is dead. He’s not there at all’ And for Mountain Song: Comin’ down the mountain One of many children Everybody has Their own opinion Everybody has Their own opinion Holding it back Hurts so bad Jumping out of my flesh And I said Cash in! Cash in now honey Cash in now Cash in now Cash in now honey Cash in miss smith Cash in now! I was comin down the mountain Met a child she had… Read more »

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kfg
March 16, 2018 at 11:05 am

If we ever meet face to face…..

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kfg
March 16, 2018 at 10:39 am

That and your several other following posts are a very clear explanation of those things. And in so few words.

Hats off.

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kfg – yes – I know all that. More to my point – how would you frame the complicity and the intentionality related to said complicity? Obviously the myriad of ways the responsibilities, and therefore the potential culpabilities, have been sliced and diced by the economic system, plays into human nature to takes incentives, but at the same time avoid blame for such. Often the incentives don’t look all that perverse, in the singular – it’s that when it’s all put together, the system of incentives itself looks perverse. One could also argue that all this ‘grease’, (velocity of money… Read more »

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Maybe a better plot twist for ‘Fight Club’ would have about blowing up the off-shore banking shelters, in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere. Of course that doesn’t make sense (just as the actual plot twist didn’t make sense) because the account balances still exist somewhere, forever backed-up somewhere else. I guess it’s psychopaths compromising other psychopaths that way (with respect to hiding booty off-shore). Somebody in Deep State knows all the off-shore account balances and the web of diversions that lead to actual people. The contest at the top is about who has got the biggest cock to fuck everybody’s… Read more »

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Wildman

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Wild Man March 16, 2018 at 10:35 pm Re: drugs. The game is already up. The only question now is the speed of the change. And the change will be – only State approved actors can be in the business. Profits will be lower. But the State will regulate things to keep profits higher than most other retail business. And I agree that “evil” does not apply until the reason for addiction is well understood. That has only been obvious for the last 10 or maybe 5 years. People didn’t study “addicts”. I figured it out about 15 years ago.… Read more »

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Rugby – I like alot of JP’s take on things. I think he is a guy who really understands what the west is, what western values are, real well. Two things though: 1) Because of his deep insights into the western cultural mythos (based at root on the concept of responsible individualism), and his deep insights into the way the west has been shaped by the Christian mythos, and how this western worldview is being attacked right now (i.e – by way of postmodernism for example), ….. how can he not fail to see that Christianity (the actual mythos not… Read more »

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“The game is already up. The only question now is the speed of the change. And the change will be – only State approved actors can be in the business. Profits will be lower. But the State will regulate things to keep profits higher than most other retail business. ”

M Simon – for cocaine, psychedelics, MDMA, and meth too? If so – when?

Blaximus
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She don’t lie, she don’t lie, she don’t lie……

boulderhead
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SJF
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Hey Wild Man,

Jordan Peterson’s goal is less to help readers change the world than to find a stable place within it.

Location, location, location….

The good thing about Bangers and Mash for St. Patrick’s day breakfast is that you only have to heat them up. They are pre-cooked. And you get to choose what is presented to you in an orderly world or even in a new world disorder.

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Wild Man
March 17, 2018 at 12:30 am

If you read your history very carefully – Jews became “Christians” after the destruction of the temple (the ruling clergy).

The Talmud is a very interesting discussion of morals, ethics, and the law. It is a post temple artifact. Different opinions are presented and discussed. Very little, “God told me.”

A whole lot of, “In light of human nature….”

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boulderhead
March 17, 2018 at 6:42 am

His ignorance is excusable. We know more now than we did then. Back then it was:

Needle, spoon, addict ====> What more do you need to know?

What we know now is:

PTSD (mostly from child abuse), needle, spoon, addict. ====> The persecution must stop.

Dr. Lonny Shavelson woke me up. What he did that was so different is that he asked “addicts” about their life history.

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Wild Man
March 17, 2018 at 12:41 am

for cocaine, psychedelics, MDMA, and meth too? If so – when?

MDMA (or is it MDA) is currently being studied. LSD too.

Their legality will follow. It will be a while. But the trajectory looks inevitable to me.

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Wild Man
March 17, 2018 at 12:30 am

Don’t forget that Milton Friedman was a Jewish guy. And Jung (who Peterson likes a lot).

There are lots of Jewish guys with ideas. (Must be a stock in trade) Some of them get taken up.

Why?

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M Simon March 17, 2018 at 3:37 pm “PTSD (mostly from child abuse), needle, spoon, addict. ====> The persecution must stop.” Tru dat^. I don’t see any ignorance in it. It is good that Lonny got you to stop banging dope M S if he hadn’t of you wouldn’t be here. I am reminded of the biblical quote ” the sins of the father will be handed down to the seventh generation”. This should include the sins of the mother as now she calls most of the shots. Yet the dopamine cycle of addiction is no myth either, wether we… Read more »

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The most notorious Jewish guys with ideas were the quantum mechanics guys. We owe the modern world to them.

Lilienfeld invented the FET transistor in 1925. It was not realized until around 1950.

Who says, “Thank you.” to Feynman? One of the first to write about Game as Game. Although he didn’t call it that. The name came later.

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boulderhead
March 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm

I never banged dope. I just changed my mind.

I used to have a bad attitude about junkies. Not terrible. More like “very stupid choice”. Now it is ====> People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

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M Simon
March 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm

“I never banged dope. I just changed my mind.”

In other words ( I will borrow some from my dead junkie friend) you changed your ideals and now you have an idea. You sounded experienced, my mistake.

Think about the seven generations of abusive inheritance, factor that into your ideals.I know I know I know.

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boulderhead March 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm Yet the dopamine cycle of addiction is no myth either, wether we smoke it snort it bang it or eat it, the faster it hits the brain the stronger the addiction. Then why do only about 10% (or less) who have used opiates get addicted? You are riding with the failed, “Drugs cause addiction.” model. Personal note: I got a shot of morphine in the Navy (pain killer after an operation). The high was delicious. Why didn’t I start chasing the dragon? After all I got the high. Let me tell you what… Read more »

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boulderhead
March 17, 2018 at 4:17 pm

It is generational because PTSD is genetic.

If you have lost anyone over this it wasn’t the drugs. It was the prohibition. Most likely. But it is hard to tell. It is over 100 years since heroin was over the counter.

M Simon
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boulderhead,

Giving up bad ideas is very hard. Look at all the trouble Blue Pills guys have once they have tasted the red pill. You are having a similar problem. There is a lot of left over “junk” in your brain you have to clean out.

boulderhead
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“Then why do only about 10% (or less) who have used opiates get addicted?” Interesting question indeed, the same questionable statistic # holds true for every drug out there, even nicotine. The answer lies in prescriptive use verses recreational use coupled with ptsd and pain weather it be physical as you suggest or spiritual pain. Even as mormon tea can be bought over the counter,mescaline and mushrooms abound in the wild. Yet everyone isn’t running around tripping and speeding. Rather they are treating their symptoms of depression and pain the conventional way through licensed practitioners.Dubious at best. The difference is… Read more »

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@ M. Simon and Boulderhead

Have you guys read some of the writings of Marc Lewis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_David_Lewis

boulderhead
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SJF never heard of him ,thanks he’s on my list. What is interesting is that the mind has most of these chemicals already and the glands can produce a endless variety as needed. Canabinol for instance is a normal brain chemical, some people dont even get stoned from MJ as their cannabinol receptors adjust to the variation in levels. however the ones that don’t adjust get high and the receptors gradually shut down causing addiction to cannabinol. go figure. When they don’t get enough they get violent or freak out. If you do enough meth your metabolism will shut down,… Read more »

boulderhead
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M Simon

Try this experiment, go for one full year without MJ ,tobacco, coffee, alcohol or even an aspirin,( no mind or mood alterations) then get back to me on addiction.You should have an idea by then.

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In Red Pill we often confronted with trying to get better (code for getting laid more). Habits are very much like addiction based on how the normal functioning human brain works. All the talk about AFC’s and Blue Pill mindsets is all about being habituated in a habituated society. Breaking out of that requires breaking out of the same damn thing that addicts are face with. Marc Lewis’ The Biology of Desire: Addiction is Not a Disease is a good read. (even if you don’t read it, search Google for the gist of it.) When stuck in a rut/addicted/having bad,… Read more »

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I just saw a Jeep advert during the basketball tourney Some men roll different ways. Like the way of the OMG’s and the way of the YSG’s and the great debates on TRM of 2016. Freedom with Adventure (Selling the Jeep Wrangler) vs. Security with Adventure. Either way, a man should live out to his edge. I’m certainly with the latter. And fight Purple Pill tendencies. Fiercely. My redemption in that is my IRL buddies challenging me. Via field reports poking me with their shivs. It works. We share tens of field reports every couple weeks. I adds up. And… Read more »

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SJF March 17, 2018 at 4:47 pm Have you guys read some of the writings of Marc Lewis? No. But Stephen Pinker has come around to my point of view. About 5 years after I had a conversation with him. Our original conversation was much like the one I’m having with b.head. The simplest and most obvious explanation of “addiction”: People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. The closest thing we have to an addictive drug is tobacco. And even that only gets 30% to 40% of those who try it. When it is down in the 10% range… Read more »

boulderhead
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“OK b. another one – if opiates are so addictive why do 5% a year spontaneously quit?” Supposing I am the third person mentionable B word, assuming only 10% of people that are exposed to opiates become addicted and 5% of those spontaneously quit, and the opiate addiction “problem” is big enough to get public recognition. Did 5% run out of money,get locked up, become infected with HIV or Hep-C? Maybe their dealer got busted or they became to unhealthy to steal, it is quite possible that they got busted for dealing meth to support their habit at the same… Read more »

boulderhead
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M Simon it doesn’t mean much to me,being right that is , or convincing you even less. What matters is the 95% of the 10 % that don’t quit “spontaniously” beliving your bulshit enough to think that A, they were truamatized enough to have an excuse to use and B, they will be in the 5% that can quit whenever they want. Just because some old guy likes his dope enough to argue in favor of it.

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boulderhead
March 17, 2018 at 5:40 pm

Why would i want to do that? I have mild residual PTSD from difficulties with my father some 70 years ago. That stuff helps.

It is that experience that gives me understanding. I have been there. And I’m still not too far away.

boulderhead
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M Simon
March 17, 2018 at 8:41 pm

“Why would i want to do that? I have mild residual PTSD from difficulties with my father some 70 years ago. That stuff helps.”

Let us assume that you are under the influence of MJ at this moment,this is helping you to stay calm and get over your pain from 70yrs ago. Cool

Let’s not call it marijuana sobriety, rather an hallucinogenic state of altered consciousness and judgment. Basicaly I am wasting my virtual ink and real time on you, still there are those lurking.

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“My contention is that if the pain trigger is removed the hurt slowly fades away. For “normals” the fade is much quicker.” If you have a rut furrowed in the brain (addiction/habit) and it is the singular ever increasing need for dopamine, the way out (how to remove the hurt) is substitute other dopamine inputs: Sex, good relationships–parenting, LTR’s, STR’s, Fuck buddies–, music, physical sports or exercise, adventure, meditation, creative hobbies, and other name your pleasure stuff. Its like the “walk it off” or “rub it off” pain in acute sports injuries. 10 other neural inputs replace one singular sensory… Read more »

SJF
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If you know where to look (and we’ve had this discussion of frisson in music) life can be beautiful and provide a way out. My wife can’t abide by music as a dopamine input. I can it can be a salvation at times. Good music=dopamine input/distraction. There are only a good 55K songs out there. Most of them are Blue Pill songs. If you search there are some Red Pill ones.

M Simon
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boulderhead March 17, 2018 at 8:21 pm 5% of those addicted to opiates spontaneously quit. If drugs cause addiction that is not possible. Projecting? Well maybe. Except Stephen Pinker agrees with me. And this Dr. too: https://acestoohigh.com/2017/05/02/addiction-doc-says-stop-chasing-the-drug-focus-on-aces-people-can-recover/ People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. And the pain ==> PTSD mostly. But there was fibromyalgia before it was recognized as a disease. After it was recognized the people with it were in “legitimate” pain. Before that they were addicts. So why don’t we test addicts for PTSD genes? My guess is that it would blow the whole racket wide apart.… Read more »

SJF
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It was once commented that Van Morrison’s In to the Mystic was the most popular song surgeons would play in the operating suite. To get them in the Zone.

https://youtu.be/CEvsDuJYEnI

Yes indeedy. That works to get into a Flow state.

You should try this at home.

I’ve done this as much to calm my addictions ( other dopamin inputs) by operating a big (really big) farm tractor. And others (real masculine males) would use a motorcycles in similar fashion.

Because it gets Dopamine to flood.

SJF
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And: HOW PTSD BECAME A PROBLEM FAR BEYOND THE BATTLEFIELD

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/ptsd-war-home-sebastian-junger

SJF
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Pure dopamine generated by an autist:

https://youtu.be/JOIo4lEpsPY

SJF
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And the Gay version:

https://youtu.be/1vrEljMfXYo

SJF
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And Jim’s Got a Name:

https://youtu.be/hHVBzLGAIbU

SJF
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Holy Shit. Read that link to PTSD that i posted @ 11:32, That Sebastian Junger guy is very well expressive. For more than half a million years, our recent hominid ancestors lived nomadic lives of extreme duress on the plains of East Africa, but the advent of agriculture changed that about 10,000 years ago. That is only 400 generations—not enough to adapt, genetically, to the changes in diet and society that ensued. Privately worked land and the accumulation of capital made humans less oriented toward group welfare, and the Industrial Revolution pushed society further in that direction. No one knows… Read more »

boulderhead
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SJF

I appreciate Junger’s praxeology taken from an anthropological stance,it even puts this thread back into context with the OT. Thanks

theasdgamer
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This autist gives me a dopamine flood:

M Simon
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SJF
March 17, 2018 at 11:27 pm

The whole concept of “addiction” is nuts.

Think of it this way – people do things because doing them is better than the alternative.

The same as the answer to “why do people live in slums?” It is better than the alternative.

We like to think of people with addictions as “broken”. I like to think of them as coping.

SJF
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Define better.

Addiction is a condition in which a person engages in use of a substance or in a behavior for which the rewarding effects provide a compelling incentive to repeatedly pursue the behavior despite (ed. potentially) detrimental consequences.

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[…] Related: THE RATIONAL MALE: TRANSACTIONAL VS. VALIDATIONAL SEX […]

M Simon
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SJF
March 18, 2018 at 2:37 pm

Better than waking up in the middle of the night screaming. Every single night. Every time you try to get some sleep. .

M Simon
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Better than being so angry you want to kill some one.

Better than being so angry at “society” that you work for its collapse.

M Simon
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If only Stalin had got his “rushes” from morphine instead of mass murder.

M Simon
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SJF
March 17, 2018 at 11:32 pm

What is left out of that Vanity Fair article is the genetics. Only 20% have the genes for long term PTSD. The author mentions the 20% but gives no clue as to the origin.

And the genes have been mapped.

anon
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“If only Stalin had got his “rushes” from morphine instead of mass murder.”

Guess that’s why Hilter was so nice. He shot up just about everything.
Good thing those Germans were doing meth!
If not, we’d have lost the Battle of the Bulge.

rugby11
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Wildman
” In my estimation the redpill community just keep dancing around the perimeter of this issue, but doesn’t engage with the deeper nuts and bolts of it.”

Whats a detail description on how you would go about it?

anon m simon…
History will and has been written by the winner’s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SNvPrKS3J4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9nRFR5otxw

M Simon
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anon
March 18, 2018 at 4:48 pm

Not everything. Amphetamines and similar. Mostly.

M Simon
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American aircrew in WW2 were on a diet of amphetamines.

Wild Man
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SJF – ‘Into the Mystic’ as a prayer to guide the surgeon’s hand. My heartfelt thanks for describing that.human wish for Godspeed. You don’t know how much, suddenly seeing that just now, means to me. But I must thank you.

I’m gonna take your description along with me tomorrow.

Sorry about the past exchanges SJF.

anon
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anon
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“American aircrew in WW2 were on a diet of amphetamines.”

They still are sometimes, in some places.

Maverick (@AlphaMaverick21)
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I always admire these writings no matter how painful they are. I think about the nature of “you cannot negotiate genuine desire” and how valid this is. While I do agree that this is the case for women, I also think this can be applied to men as well. However does it not seem that civilization as we know it was built upon the contract of negotiated desire? When marriage existed between a young or even virgin wife and her husband, it was a contract that if she negotiated her desire for him while she was young, then when she… Read more »

Higgs Boson
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Higgs Boson
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Buying a ticket can take someone for an interesting trip, but never into the uncharted territory where most men yearn to be.

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[…] can’t learn love from a romantic interest, because they’re in Transaction Mode, or Affirmation Mode, and not in Humble Mode, Learning Mode, or Gratitude […]

S Pairadice
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I’m just a casual reader of this site, but married for 25 years, and have lots of hot sex with my wife still. So,just an observation – I see some couples our age, maybe 30% that seem pretty happy, successful and they claim to love each other. They have sex… I’m not they think about it being transactional – they just fuck for fun and to be close. Look, take it from an old guy ( 52) I see some sense in these red pill type arguments, but if you have a chance to have what they have -love affection..… Read more »

boulderhead
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S Pairadice

Make your own honeydoo list,then tell her hers can wait. Then get a little validational sex.

Alicia
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Alicia
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Gentlemen,

I’m interested in your viewpoint. I’m female and in what has been predominantly a sexless marriage for the past few years. What, if anything, can I do to fix this situation? I feel like I’ve tried everything and really the only advice out there seems to address men in such a situation. I will respond to any specific questions about this if you believe it will aid in your providing a helpful response.

Thx.

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[…] não pode ser merecida, conquistada ou transacionada. O sexo pode e as relações resumidas a quartos mortos ou a sessões mensais de posição […]

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[…] Rollo Tomassi has pointed out, women have sex with alphas for validation; sex with betas is transactional. In other words, a […]

erenyeager911
Guest

Validation sex is that kind of sex where girls are almost begging you to validate her by putting your D inside.

I don’t know for you but for me, the biggest satisfaction is to see women actually wanting to jump on me and I’m kinda reluctant and demanding.

I demand from her different stuff in order for her to get what she wants. It’s not that common, it’s not easy to be in that position but once you feel that power it’s almost addictive.

Cheers.

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[…] So how do you “get lucky”? From my own experience and the accounts of others, I have come to believe that shoring has less to do with luck than bending the circumstances in your favor. Women in general are very pragmatic with their sexual agency: either they want to fuck you or they don’t. Genuine desire is, by definition, non negotiable. […]

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[…] In spite of the language, I believe that the underlying message of expressing a whole-hearted desire extends a great deal of honor to the wife, just as the Bible instructs of husbands. The vast majority of women want to be desired, and they get turned on when they feel desired by a man. I am not waiting around until she tells me so, but I believe that she really felt more honored and valued on a visceral level. This visceral affect is crucial, because you cannot negotiate genuine desire. […]

Danielle
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Guys that act like this are a massive turn off & even if they give me orgasms I eventually just stop talking to them. When sex becomes a transaction, it bleeds the fun out. Also, thinking that any man that I have sex with will become the father of my children really is a fun sucker. Alpha males, blah, so high school. This article is one of the problems women today are facing. We get horny too, not just because we’re meant to have babies or get married. We get horny on our periods, we get horny when we’re pregnate,… Read more »

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