Transactional vs. Validational Sex

You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

This is one of my best known quotes because it resonates with so many men. There was a time in the early 2000s when I was doing peer counseling for men – most of whom were at least a decade my senior – as part of my undergraduate study and one consistent theme I got from almost all of them was how their marriages (or LTRs) had been so much more sexually satisfying when they were dating their wives or before they’d committed to some kind of exclusivity. That’s always the crux of it for guys. They mistakenly believed that the hot monkey sex they were having with their women prior to “doing the right thing” and getting married or committed was something that would be characteristic of their quality woman into a long term relationship with them.

Why was this the case for guys? I can remember coming up with this quote as part of the advice I was giving while working for one of these men. He, like many of the other guys, had gotten to the point that he would do almost anything to get back to that real desire that convinced him to commit to his wife in the first place. And, like many of these guys, he’d convinced his wife to go to marriage counseling in order to find out what exactly it was that he needed to do to “get her to come around” to wanting to bang him. Nothing was working for him. Even after his sessions he was still either sexless or his wife only begrudgingly would have lackluster ‘starfish’ sex with him. We called that a ‘grudge fuck’ back then.

As a student of behavioral psychology my interest was (still is) in what motivates or incentivizes behavior in people (sometimes animals). What was it that inspires genuine desire as opposed to behavior that still has a purpose, but was more motivated by future outcome. You can make a case that genuine desire is also motivated by a perceived outcome, but in this instance I’m making a distinction between a natural, unsolicited desire as opposed to an incentive based on a preconceived outcome – if all goes according to plan.

This guy broke down in tears with me on at least two occasions. He just couldn’t understand why what was supposed to work (open communication, rational discourse and honest negotiation) wasn’t getting her to “come around” to having sex with him. It was then I thought, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. Either a woman wants  to fuck you or she doesn’t. There are definitely ways to prompt that genuine desire – most of which are behavioral and conditional – but as has been stated many times in the ‘sphere, attraction is not a choice. The key word there is choice. Few men would ‘choose’ to be attracted by an obese woman and in many ways this choice dynamic is why women promoting the ‘body acceptance’ narrative have a tough time of it. For all the nonsense about beauty being a social construct, arousal for men is very much rooted in evolved biology. Men can’t choose to get an erection for a woman they’re simply not aroused by.

The same holds true for women, but the conditions are different. Women can and do have sex for reasons other than genuine desire. Negotiated desire really isn’t desire at all, but women have readily used sexual access to achieve those perceived outcomes I mentioned above here. Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. A talented hooker or stripper may be very convincing in her act that she’s really into having sex with a man, but the negotiation that takes place before the act can never make a woman want to have sex with her client. Attraction is not a choice, but really, arousal is not a choice either.


I am presently about half way through my read of Dr. Martie Haselton’s new book Hormonal. I was really anticipating this book’s release, and I had intended to do my first-ever book review of it here, but as I read through I’ve decided not to. I still highly recommend reading it. As you might guess it’s chock full of stats and research confirmation of so much of what I write here that I want to put it at the top of the required Rational Male reading list. I’ve been referencing Dr. Haselton’s (and her colleagues) work since I began this blog, but the delivery of the information was disappointing, and in a lot of instances, very immature and sophomoric. It’s written almost as an apologetic to feminists for having to kill a lot of sacred feminist social convention cows. I feel as if she’s writing ‘down’ to the women who she’ll inevitably market this book to, but, if you can get past her constant attempts to legitimize her feminist credentials, the information is absolute gold.

One aspect of female sexual dynamics that Haselton and her team detail quite a bit is the idea of an Estrus state in human females. I’m not sure how well appreciated this research is in the manosphere, which is one reason I included it in Positive Masculinity, but this concept is really integral to how we define Hypergamy. As most of my readers know, Hypergamy – women’s dualistic sexual strategy (and really life strategy) – is much more than a tendency of a woman to ‘marry up’. In Hormonal the ideas of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks really solidify with the research.

However, as useful as it is as a catchy euphemism Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks could better be described as Alpha Seed and Beta Need. In a woman’s peak ovulatory phase of her menstrual cycle she enters an estrus state and becomes subject to behaviors that can only be defined as a pretext of seeking Alpha seed. In other words, nature and Hypergamy are very practical in maximizing the chances that a woman may get pregnant with the best available genetic specimen. Granted, the true outcome of all of that is subject to environment and a woman’s personal conditions, but the practicality of it remains the same as it has for 100,000 years. It’s also important to keep in mind that a woman’s behaviors, strategies, rationales and her own interpretation of all of them in those various times and conditions are also a part of the overall latent purpose of a woman consolidating on the best Alpha Seed and Beta to supply her needs.

While women are subject to an estrus state they still require the second half of Hypergamy – the Beta need for security, provisioning, protection, comfort and at least the sharing of parental investment responsibilities for any offspring. Estrus in women is concealed, meaning it is (or used to be) nearly, but not totally undetectable in women. There are in fact various ways men evolved to intuitively determine whether a woman is in an estrus state of fertility; most of these today are socially shamed in men so as to further confuse them and advantage women, but that’s a topic for another essay. A concealed estrus aids women in optimizing both Alpha Seed and Beta Need and it’s likely that much of what accounts for women’s sexual strategy is the result of this concealment.

Now, a lot has been written by myself and others about the impact of meeting a woman’s Beta Need aspect of Hypergamy being served by the state and/or direct or indirect transfers of resources from men to women. Most of my readers are well aware of how this side of Hypergamy has been progressively accommodated for over the past fifty years. In spite of this it’s important to remember that this accommodation of provisioning needs doesn’t eliminate the deeper needs that this side of Hypergamy engenders in women. It may be true that women have never been better provided for in history as far as money and opportunities go, but women still look for emotional security, protection, dominance and comfort in men as part of their innate mental firmware.

As a result of Hypergamy and this concealed estrus state women have been put into a condition of evaluating sex in different aspects today.

Validational Sex

When women look for that Alpha Seed in their peak ovulatory (proliferative) phase, the sex they seek is a desired sex with a man who meets evolutionary criteria. He’s the ‘hawt’ guy, or the man who leaves a woman with an perception of danger or excitement. A lot of men who don’t meet this criteria have a tendency to over-exaggerate this type of man as the ‘Alpha Chad’ and make a ridiculous parody of him as an ego protection mechanism for themselves. Let me state for the record here that every aspect and adjective that this type of guy embodies is mitigated by conditions and contexts. It is just as likely that this conventionally masculine dominant guy is only so according to his most immediate social situation. So spare me the “Chad Thundercock” anxieties.

The sex that women give “enthusiastic consent” for is validational for them. The easy assessment here is that women have a genuine desire to mate with conventionally masculine men who look and act the part – yes, behavioral congruency is vital. If you follow the research women consciously and unconsciously will actively put themselves into environments where the likelihood of their meeting a dominant masculine man who most closely matched that masculine ideal when they are in estrus. They openly and discreetly look of arousal cue from men who best embody what can only be described as Alpha Seed.

I should also add that women in “satisfying relationships” (meaning LTRs where a woman is still very hot for her husband/boyfriend) report an increase in sexual desire (proceptivity) for that guy during this phase. A lot of guys mistakenly think ANY woman will want to seek out extra-pair mating (cheating) opportunities when they’re in estrus. This is only true if a woman isn’t into her current man.

I don’t want to get too lost in the descriptions here. Rather, I want to focus on the associative feelings women get in and after having sex with that Alpha man during estrus. I would argue that Alpha Widows are made in the estrus phase. This is the sex women want to have and are enthusiastic in both the hunt and the act itself. This is largely (presumedly) the sex that men have with their wives-to-be before they marry. It’s this validational sex, the sex that women fantasize about, that men and women want to get back to once they are committed to each other monogamously but now have a dead bedroom. This sex validates a woman’s ego in that it proves to herself that a man of this SMV caliber would want to pin her to the bed and have marathon sex with her. Remember, the latent purpose of this sex, on this side of Hypergamy, is to access the sperm from men with high reproductive value as defined by what our evolved nature predisposes women to be aroused by. Validational sex is sex by choice and genuine desire, and is satisfying on both a psychological level and an evolutionary level.

Transactional Sex

One of the benefits of a concealed estrus is that it allows women a few luxuries. One of these was the ability to confuse men of their paternity. Today this confusion is little more difficult because we’ve got DNA figured out well enough to make accurate assessments, but in our evolutionary past it was important to trick cuckolded fathers into second guessing whether a child was his or not before he killed it and impregnated a woman on his own (this is also why men evolved mate guarding behaviors).

The other advantage of concealed estrus was essentially prostitution. Now, to pretty this up a bit, lets say that women who were sexual with men outside of their fertility window found that sex could be leveraged with non-Alpha men (men they didn’t want to have children with) to encourage them to help with a lot of the chores more Alpha men were less willing (but not entirely unwilling) to do. Enter transactional sex.

As mentioned, the most overt form of transactional sex is prostitution, but it’s impolite to call every woman a whore. In fact it’s impolite to even imply a woman may be having sex for other reasons than validational sex. Today women are contemplating whether or not transactional sex is itself rape since it technically meets the definition of rape (sex women don’t want to have). I discussed this “grey area sex” recently in another essay, but it’s interesting to see women wrestle with transactional sex in an era where the Future is Female and women ought to only have the (validational) sex they want to enthusiastically have.

For most men (i.e the 80% Beta men) transactional sex is where the rubber meets the road. In fact, I’d argue that for most Beta men transactional sex is the only definition of sex they ever really know. That’s kind of sad to think about, but most men never really experience the unfettered feral lust of a woman they’ve chosen to spend the rest of their lives with. I got into this in Saving the Best and Hats Off to the Bull, but I think it’s important for the average man today to acknowledge that it’s highly likely that their wives have shared parts of themselves with, and have lost all inhibitions with, men in their sexual pasts they may never know anything about. That’s a cold bucket of reality a lot of men who unplug from all this have to confront.

Marriage today is almost entirely predicated on on the transactional sex side of Hypergamy. I’m not saying it has to be, nor am I saying it always is, but I’m fairly comfortable in speculating that for most married women sex is reward she uses in the operant conditioning of her husband. And the very fact that this is effective with most husbands throws the power dynamic and Frame of the relationship firmly over to the wife. This has the effect of disqualifying that man from ever (or very rarely) being a candidate for validational sex within that marriage. And this too is another aspect of the transactional sex dynamic that modern feminists are contemplating today – if a woman doesn’t want to have sex with her husband, but does anyway, is it rape? But again, NAMALT, not all marriages are like this or have to be like this. I would also argue that a confident man whom a woman admires, who she recognizes as being above her SMV even if slightly and who has internalized Red Pill awareness within that marriage needn’t be doomed to transactional “duty” sex in his marriage.

Unnegotiated Desire

And so now we come full circle to the men I was counseling back in the day. Because all they’d ever known was transactional sex their deductive male brains attempted to solve their “sex problem” in the most logistical and pragmatic way – negotiate with her. If all sex ever is for a guy is a transaction – a quid pro quo – then it follows he’ll try to find the best way to ‘pay’ for his wife’s sexual access. Hunter Drew and I were recently discussing a man who Dean Abbot has been counseling and one thing we’ve all seen a lot of from young and old Blue Pill Beta men is this logical tendency for them to want to ‘sacrifice their way to happiness with their wives’. It’s as if the more they sacrifice the more they pay for that intimacy they seek, but what they never get is that this only buries their sex lives that much more.

One amazing turn around a lot of married and single Red Pill guys experience when they unplug is the attention they receive from women when they switch from a transactional disposition to a validational disposition with regard to sex. When a man unplugs and cuts himself away from his Blue Pill conditioning one change he makes is a shift from viewing sex as transactional to validational. In the beginning, when men are first learning Game and becoming more Red Pill aware about the nature of women they really don’t recognize this shift in attitude towards sex. When I say men need to make themselves the “prize” with regards to sex and their attention what happens is they go from the “how can I pay for sex to qualify for it with a woman” to “women will recognize that I represent and opportunity for validational sex”.

The Blue Pill conditions men to base their understanding of sex on a transactional paradigm. It’s all scarcity, and luck or providence that a woman might want to fuck them. This is why women get aggravated by the presumption that men might feel they are ‘owed sex‘ in exchange for what they do for them. And why wouldn’t men feel that way? They’ve been conditioned for half a life to believe that they should follow the old social contract and become a man with a lot to offer a woman, a wife. This is the transactional paradigm; I build my life to better accommodate a woman and she reciprocates with sex. Women know this too, so all pretenses of indignation about are complete bullshit. What upsets women is that a Beta man would feel entitled to her sexuality for having accommodated her. Alpha men are entitled to it, accommodations be damned, because he’s the man they want to have sex with.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

589 comments on “Transactional vs. Validational Sex

  1. “You make the illegal sector more profitable by raising the perceived risk ”

    Control the level of interdiction, control the price, while at the same time skimming The People to pay for the “interdiction.”


  2. Owsley didn’t start making LSD to make money, he did it to flood the market with high grade shit at more or less cost and break the CIA’s price control (it wasn’t under interdiction yet, but the CIA controlled the supply. They had to make it illegal to give the CIA market control again).

  3. ‘Mountain Song’ (version with muddy bass – I be like’in the way that vibrates inside):

    I liked your Jane’s Addiction reference. ‘God is dead. He’s not there at all’

    And for Mountain Song:

    Comin’ down the mountain
    One of many children
    Everybody has
    Their own opinion
    Everybody has
    Their own opinion
    Holding it back
    Hurts so bad
    Jumping out of my flesh
    And I said
    Cash in!
    Cash in now honey
    Cash in now
    Cash in now
    Cash in now honey
    Cash in miss smith
    Cash in now!
    I was comin down the mountain
    Met a child she had pin eyes
    We had the same opinion
    Had the same opinion
    She was holding it back
    It hurts do bad
    Jumping out of her flesh
    And I said
    Cash in!
    Cash in now honey
    Cash in now
    Cash in now
    Cash in now honey
    Cash in miss smith
    Cash in now!

    Yeah. God’s beyond all conception, yes beyond the human’s conception, ….. everybody says so, ….. everybody says so, ….. Until They Don’t. Ha.

    Thanks Rollo.

  4. kfg
    March 16, 2018 at 10:39 am

    That and your several other following posts are a very clear explanation of those things. And in so few words.

    Hats off.

  5. kfg – yes – I know all that.

    More to my point – how would you frame the complicity and the intentionality related to said complicity?

    Obviously the myriad of ways the responsibilities, and therefore the potential culpabilities, have been sliced and diced by the economic system, plays into human nature to takes incentives, but at the same time avoid blame for such. Often the incentives don’t look all that perverse, in the singular – it’s that when it’s all put together, the system of incentives itself looks perverse.

    One could also argue that all this ‘grease’, (velocity of money moving around, by way of all kinds of enterprises), on the whole, helps prevent human suffering (albeit always at the risk of ever new monopoly power of one sort or the other arising, which is detrimental if not reigned-in, by way of monopoly-breaking actions), as long as one believes that borrowing from the account credits of future human ingenuity is a permanent dynamic, that can be permanently counted on, and the various governors of this system can be entrusted to not let said borrowing extend beyond the true present value of the account credits of this future ingenuity.

    Given these two perspectives, it’s quite hard to frame this in terms of:intentionality present with respect to maintaining these conditions in order to enrich some by way of intentionally increasing human suffering for others (but I haven’t looked into M Simon’s recommended reading yet – so I might change my mind about this). However I think that said frame is a prerequisite for framing our leadership as ‘virulent highly-intelligent pathological psychopathy at the top’.

    The most rational view in all this, imo, with respect to our leadership, is that it is overly cynical to cast them as composed primarily of ‘virulent highly-intelligent pathological psychopaths at the top’ (though of course many of the players will fit said description nevertheless, because psychopathy in not uncommon).

    So kfg – how would you frame the complicity and the intentionality related to said complicity?

    After all, I found it quite interesting that an average intelligenced psychopathic petty thief I once knew, framed it this way: “People get all judgey about what I do, but these same people get all greedy-like, when I can sell them some stolen shit for a big discount. This shit is easy to sell.”

    Of course, if you buy stolen shit from a psychopath, you are now compromised, beholden to him, …. he knows something about you that you don’t want others to know, Possession of stolen property is a crime. Collusion with respect to arm’s length criminal activity is also a crime. So …. how many of our leaders are just weak people that have been compromised, and how many are truly psychopathic? And what are we gonna do to ensure that psychopathic influence is much less prevalent (instead of more prevalent) as one travels up the ladder of incentives?

  6. Maybe a better plot twist for ‘Fight Club’ would have about blowing up the off-shore banking shelters, in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere. Of course that doesn’t make sense (just as the actual plot twist didn’t make sense) because the account balances still exist somewhere, forever backed-up somewhere else. I guess it’s psychopaths compromising other psychopaths that way (with respect to hiding booty off-shore). Somebody in Deep State knows all the off-shore account balances and the web of diversions that lead to actual people. The contest at the top is about who has got the biggest cock to fuck everybody’s ass with (or be a threat to do so)?

    It’s this business of compromising people, and people acquiescing to that, that is truly rotten. Say no to ass-fucking.

    For illicit drugs at least – gotta break the monopoly power (upheld by way of monopoly on violence) . We probably should just socialize the production cost of drugs, provide at nominal cost, and let people each personally decide how much they want fuck up their lives that way. Didn’t something close to that work in Portugal?

    I don’t know. Gotta ponder this some more. M Simon or kfg – you got ideas about solutions?

  7. Wild Man
    March 16, 2018 at 10:35 pm

    Re: drugs.

    The game is already up. The only question now is the speed of the change. And the change will be – only State approved actors can be in the business. Profits will be lower. But the State will regulate things to keep profits higher than most other retail business.

    And I agree that “evil” does not apply until the reason for addiction is well understood. That has only been obvious for the last 10 or maybe 5 years. People didn’t study “addicts”. I figured it out about 15 years ago.


    But think about the obvious. How Black Markets operate has been well known culturally since the 1920s.

    So the intention has been to keep them functional indefinitely (if possible).

    What do Black Markets do for intel agencies?

    1. Create a cadre of clandestine operators
    2. Create unaccounted money
    3. Create opportunities to bribe police and others

  8. Rugby – I like alot of JP’s take on things. I think he is a guy who really understands what the west is, what western values are, real well. Two things though:

    1) Because of his deep insights into the western cultural mythos (based at root on the concept of responsible individualism), and his deep insights into the way the west has been shaped by the Christian mythos, and how this western worldview is being attacked right now (i.e – by way of postmodernism for example), ….. how can he not fail to see that Christianity (the actual mythos not the institutional Christian churches which are largely warped towards a false Judeo-Christian flavoring which is contradictory as fuck) is actually a divorce from the Judaic? He must see this but he doesn’t say, most likely because in his circles it is verboten. He has made part of his career on a deep study of the failings of communism (a jewish idea) that informed the failings of bolshevism (a jewish idea). He is a big fan of Solzhenitsyn (who has pointed out this jewish influence in the formation of the USSR). JP has made a more recent study of the failings of postmodernism (a jewish idea). Until we can talk about the differences between the jewish worldview vs. the western-worldview-proper, we are gonna keep going around and around in circles forever – spinning our wheels. We need to sort out just exactly how the jewish mythos has been a toxic influence upon the western-mythos-proper. If JP won’t do this – pretty soon he is gonna run out of steam and become useless to the movement that has coalesced around him.

    2) I don’t think he fully grasps just how his personal bias is colored by way of his ‘status’ as university professor, as conferred by way of all the females around him (inclusive of his largely female student body). But university professors in the humanities are funny that way – commonly blind to the way the female conferred status upon them, in their immediate vicinity, has skewed their judgment about alot of things, gender-wise.

    Rugby – what we gotta do now, with respect to furthering redpill understanding around gender issues, is to get to the bottom of how this female-conferred-status-operation works at deep psychic subliminal (and even unconscious) level. I do have some thoughts on that. But this is Rollo’s blogspot so that’s his call. In my estimation the redpill community just keep dancing around the perimeter of this issue, but doesn’t engage with the deeper nuts and bolts of it.

  9. “The game is already up. The only question now is the speed of the change. And the change will be – only State approved actors can be in the business. Profits will be lower. But the State will regulate things to keep profits higher than most other retail business. ”

    M Simon – for cocaine, psychedelics, MDMA, and meth too? If so – when?

  10. Hey Wild Man,

    Jordan Peterson’s goal is less to help readers change the world than to find a stable place within it.

    Location, location, location….

    The good thing about Bangers and Mash for St. Patrick’s day breakfast is that you only have to heat them up. They are pre-cooked. And you get to choose what is presented to you in an orderly world or even in a new world disorder.

  11. Wild Man
    March 17, 2018 at 12:30 am

    If you read your history very carefully – Jews became “Christians” after the destruction of the temple (the ruling clergy).

    The Talmud is a very interesting discussion of morals, ethics, and the law. It is a post temple artifact. Different opinions are presented and discussed. Very little, “God told me.”

    A whole lot of, “In light of human nature….”

  12. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 6:42 am

    His ignorance is excusable. We know more now than we did then. Back then it was:

    Needle, spoon, addict ====> What more do you need to know?

    What we know now is:

    PTSD (mostly from child abuse), needle, spoon, addict. ====> The persecution must stop.

    Dr. Lonny Shavelson woke me up. What he did that was so different is that he asked “addicts” about their life history.

  13. Wild Man
    March 17, 2018 at 12:41 am

    for cocaine, psychedelics, MDMA, and meth too? If so – when?

    MDMA (or is it MDA) is currently being studied. LSD too.

    Their legality will follow. It will be a while. But the trajectory looks inevitable to me.

  14. Wild Man
    March 17, 2018 at 12:30 am

    Don’t forget that Milton Friedman was a Jewish guy. And Jung (who Peterson likes a lot).

    There are lots of Jewish guys with ideas. (Must be a stock in trade) Some of them get taken up.


  15. M Simon
    March 17, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    “PTSD (mostly from child abuse), needle, spoon, addict. ====> The persecution must stop.”

    Tru dat^.

    I don’t see any ignorance in it. It is good that Lonny got you to stop banging dope M S if he hadn’t of you wouldn’t be here.

    I am reminded of the biblical quote ” the sins of the father will be handed down to the seventh generation”. This should include the sins of the mother as now she calls most of the shots.

    Yet the dopamine cycle of addiction is no myth either, wether we smoke it snort it bang it or eat it, the faster it hits the brain the stronger the addiction. The addiction is a symptom of an underlying self destructive tendency and also a treatment for the same condition. BUT once the pathways are burnt in they will look smoother than the road. Recovery has always depended on massive thought change, either through burnout or soul searching relearning plasticity, ether way new synaps need to be built.

    I a sense it is acting your way into right thinking vs thinking your way into right action, this is for peolple whose thinking is fucked.

  16. The most notorious Jewish guys with ideas were the quantum mechanics guys. We owe the modern world to them.

    Lilienfeld invented the FET transistor in 1925. It was not realized until around 1950.

    Who says, “Thank you.” to Feynman? One of the first to write about Game as Game. Although he didn’t call it that. The name came later.

  17. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm

    I never banged dope. I just changed my mind.

    I used to have a bad attitude about junkies. Not terrible. More like “very stupid choice”. Now it is ====> People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

  18. M Simon
    March 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    “I never banged dope. I just changed my mind.”

    In other words ( I will borrow some from my dead junkie friend) you changed your ideals and now you have an idea. You sounded experienced, my mistake.

    Think about the seven generations of abusive inheritance, factor that into your ideals.I know I know I know.

  19. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm

    Yet the dopamine cycle of addiction is no myth either, wether we smoke it snort it bang it or eat it, the faster it hits the brain the stronger the addiction.

    Then why do only about 10% (or less) who have used opiates get addicted?

    You are riding with the failed, “Drugs cause addiction.” model.

    Personal note: I got a shot of morphine in the Navy (pain killer after an operation). The high was delicious. Why didn’t I start chasing the dragon? After all I got the high.

    Let me tell you what I have found:
    1. It is genetic – only 20% of the population has the genes (they are mapped you can look them up – PTSD genes )
    2. Only 1/2 those get enough trauma to trigger the genes

    The “Pusher Man” is a savior to those in pain. And he makes a profit.

  20. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    It is generational because PTSD is genetic.

    If you have lost anyone over this it wasn’t the drugs. It was the prohibition. Most likely. But it is hard to tell. It is over 100 years since heroin was over the counter.

  21. boulderhead,

    Giving up bad ideas is very hard. Look at all the trouble Blue Pills guys have once they have tasted the red pill. You are having a similar problem. There is a lot of left over “junk” in your brain you have to clean out.

  22. “Then why do only about 10% (or less) who have used opiates get addicted?”

    Interesting question indeed, the same questionable statistic # holds true for every drug out there, even nicotine. The answer lies in prescriptive use verses recreational use coupled with ptsd and pain weather it be physical as you suggest or spiritual pain.

    Even as mormon tea can be bought over the counter,mescaline and mushrooms abound in the wild. Yet everyone isn’t running around tripping and speeding. Rather they are treating their symptoms of depression and pain the conventional way through licensed practitioners.Dubious at best.

    The difference is one guy is getting novacaine shot into his gums and the other is shooting cocaine into his dick. You get my point in the dictionary under redundancy it says see redundant.

    Still withdrawals from heroin are very painful physicaly as well as mentaly with no preexisting conditions.This is what is known as physiological and psychological addiction.

  23. SJF never heard of him ,thanks he’s on my list.

    What is interesting is that the mind has most of these chemicals already and the glands can produce a endless variety as needed.

    Canabinol for instance is a normal brain chemical, some people dont even get stoned from MJ as their cannabinol receptors adjust to the variation in levels. however the ones that don’t adjust get high and the receptors gradually shut down causing addiction to cannabinol. go figure. When they don’t get enough they get violent or freak out.

    If you do enough meth your metabolism will shut down, most meth junkies that survive become obese.

  24. M Simon

    Try this experiment, go for one full year without MJ ,tobacco, coffee, alcohol or even an aspirin,( no mind or mood alterations) then get back to me on addiction.You should have an idea by then.

  25. In Red Pill we often confronted with trying to get better (code for getting laid more). Habits are very much like addiction based on how the normal functioning human brain works. All the talk about AFC’s and Blue Pill mindsets is all about being habituated in a habituated society.

    Breaking out of that requires breaking out of the same damn thing that addicts are face with.

    Marc Lewis’ The Biology of Desire: Addiction is Not a Disease is a good read. (even if you don’t read it, search Google for the gist of it.)

    When stuck in a rut/addicted/having bad, bad habits, or not having agency, the best thing is to have work-arounds–nine other dopamine inputs to that ONE.

    Having other inputs and developing work-arounds is normal for the human brain.(Wait, shit, I should say stuck in neutral without other work-arounds is normal. Getting work-arounds is the way out. Work-arounds are the smart way to operate out on your edge of purpose.)

    And normal for the development in any one human brain for Mastery. It’s called Neuroplasticity. It’s real and it is spectacular. Like good Tits. Or a HB8+ with high self-esteem (or low self-esteem with BPD for that matter, shit who cares…) that you get to bang. Developing Red Pill awareness represents this paradigm of work-arounds and Neuroplasticity. Game extends your self in the same venue.

    Ain’t life Beautiful that way?

  26. I just saw a Jeep advert during the basketball tourney

    Some men roll different ways.

    Like the way of the OMG’s and the way of the YSG’s and the great debates on TRM of 2016.

    Freedom with Adventure (Selling the Jeep Wrangler) vs. Security with Adventure.

    Either way, a man should live out to his edge.

    I’m certainly with the latter. And fight Purple Pill tendencies. Fiercely. My redemption in that is my IRL buddies challenging me. Via field reports poking me with their shivs. It works. We share tens of field reports every couple weeks. I adds up. And we move on.

    I swear the last three years of Red Pill took six years off my life. Time is going backwards.

    Go figure.

  27. SJF
    March 17, 2018 at 4:47 pm

    Have you guys read some of the writings of Marc Lewis?

    No. But Stephen Pinker has come around to my point of view. About 5 years after I had a conversation with him.

    Our original conversation was much like the one I’m having with b.head.

    The simplest and most obvious explanation of “addiction”:

    People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

    The closest thing we have to an addictive drug is tobacco. And even that only gets 30% to 40% of those who try it.

    When it is down in the 10% range (as it is for opiates) something besides the drug is causing the problem.

    And worse – isn’t it wrong to persecute people for genetic differences?

    OK b. another one – if opiates are so addictive why do 5% a year spontaneously quit?

    My contention is that if the pain trigger is removed the hurt slowly fades away. For “normals” the fade is much quicker. B. Lutz did some studies on mice relative to this. I don’t think you can find them free online anymore.

  28. “OK b. another one – if opiates are so addictive why do 5% a year spontaneously quit?”

    Supposing I am the third person mentionable B word, assuming only 10% of people that are exposed to opiates become addicted and 5% of those spontaneously quit, and the opiate addiction “problem” is big enough to get public recognition.

    Did 5% run out of money,get locked up, become infected with HIV or Hep-C? Maybe their dealer got busted or they became to unhealthy to steal, it is quite possible that they got busted for dealing meth to support their habit at the same time their woman quit turning tricks for them and after turning states evidence against their bros and 30 days in rehab they got a hot shot and OD’d.

    The possibilities are endless.

    You are projecting Simon. Not all people take painkillers for the same kinds of pain.

  29. M Simon it doesn’t mean much to me,being right that is , or convincing you even less. What matters is the 95% of the 10 % that don’t quit “spontaniously” beliving your bulshit enough to think that A, they were truamatized enough to have an excuse to use and B, they will be in the 5% that can quit whenever they want. Just because some old guy likes his dope enough to argue in favor of it.

  30. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    Why would i want to do that? I have mild residual PTSD from difficulties with my father some 70 years ago. That stuff helps.

    It is that experience that gives me understanding. I have been there. And I’m still not too far away.

  31. M Simon
    March 17, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    “Why would i want to do that? I have mild residual PTSD from difficulties with my father some 70 years ago. That stuff helps.”

    Let us assume that you are under the influence of MJ at this moment,this is helping you to stay calm and get over your pain from 70yrs ago. Cool

    Let’s not call it marijuana sobriety, rather an hallucinogenic state of altered consciousness and judgment. Basicaly I am wasting my virtual ink and real time on you, still there are those lurking.

  32. “My contention is that if the pain trigger is removed the hurt slowly fades away. For “normals” the fade is much quicker.”

    If you have a rut furrowed in the brain (addiction/habit) and it is the singular ever increasing need for dopamine, the way out (how to remove the hurt) is substitute other dopamine inputs: Sex, good relationships–parenting, LTR’s, STR’s, Fuck buddies–, music, physical sports or exercise, adventure, meditation, creative hobbies, and other name your pleasure stuff.

    Its like the “walk it off” or “rub it off” pain in acute sports injuries. 10 other neural inputs replace one singular sensory input in the peripheral nervous system. Same in the central nervous system (CNS).

    It’s Plate Theory rather than One-itis for the CNS.

    Hey Red Pill Theory analogy of Addiction…

  33. If you know where to look (and we’ve had this discussion of frisson in music) life can be beautiful and provide a way out. My wife can’t abide by music as a dopamine input. I can it can be a salvation at times. Good music=dopamine input/distraction. There are only a good 55K songs out there. Most of them are Blue Pill songs. If you search there are some Red Pill ones.

  34. boulderhead
    March 17, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    5% of those addicted to opiates spontaneously quit. If drugs cause addiction that is not possible.

    Projecting? Well maybe. Except Stephen Pinker agrees with me.

    And this Dr. too:

    People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

    And the pain ==> PTSD mostly. But there was fibromyalgia before it was recognized as a disease. After it was recognized the people with it were in “legitimate” pain. Before that they were addicts.

    So why don’t we test addicts for PTSD genes? My guess is that it would blow the whole racket wide apart.

    BTW the military treats vets with severe PTSD with opiates. The VFW would like to see cannabis added to the list of treatments.

    So the question is: Is someone with PTSD in “legitimate” pain?

  35. It was once commented that Van Morrison’s In to the Mystic was the most popular song surgeons would play in the operating suite. To get them in the Zone.

    Yes indeedy. That works to get into a Flow state.

    You should try this at home.

    I’ve done this as much to calm my addictions ( other dopamin inputs) by operating a big (really big) farm tractor. And others (real masculine males) would use a motorcycles in similar fashion.

    Because it gets Dopamine to flood.

  36. Holy Shit.

    Read that link to PTSD that i posted @ 11:32, That Sebastian Junger guy is very well expressive.

    For more than half a million years, our recent hominid ancestors lived nomadic lives of extreme duress on the plains of East Africa, but the advent of agriculture changed that about 10,000 years ago. That is only 400 generations—not enough to adapt, genetically, to the changes in diet and society that ensued. Privately worked land and the accumulation of capital made humans less oriented toward group welfare, and the Industrial Revolution pushed society further in that direction. No one knows how the so-called Information Age will affect us, but there’s a good chance that home technology and the Internet will only intensify our drift toward solipsism and alienation.

    Meanwhile, many of the behaviors that had high survival value in our evolutionary past, like problem solving, cooperation, and inter-group competition, are still rewarded by bumps of dopamine and other hormones into our system. Those hormones serve to reinforce whatever behavior it was that produced those hormones in the first place. Group affiliation and cooperation were clearly adaptive because in many animals, including humans, they trigger a surge in levels of a neuropeptide called oxytocin. Not only does oxytocin create a glow of well-being in people, it promotes greater levels of trust and bonding, which unite them further still. Hominids that were rewarded with oxytocin for cooperating with one another must have out-fought, out-hunted, and out-bred the ones that didn’t. Those are the hominids that modern humans are descended from.

    According to one study published in Science in June 2010, this feedback loop of oxytocin and group loyalty creates an expectation that members will “self-sacrifice to contribute to in-group welfare.” There may be no better description of a soldier’s ethos than that sentence. One of the most noticeable things about life in the military is that you are virtually never alone: day after day, month after month, you are close enough to speak to, if not touch, a dozen or more people. You eat together, sleep together, laugh together, suffer together. That level of intimacy duplicates our evolutionary past very closely and must create a nearly continual oxytocin reward system.

    When soldiers return to modern society, they must go through—among other adjustments—a terrific oxytocin withdrawal. The chronic isolation of modern society begins in childhood and continues our entire lives. Infants in hunter-gatherer societies are carried by their mothers as much as 50 to 90 percent of the time, often in wraps that keep them strapped to the mother’s back so that her hands are free. That roughly corresponds to carrying rates among other primates, according to primatologist and psychologist Harriet J. Smith. One can get an idea of how desperately important touch is to primates from a landmark experiment conducted in the 1950s by a psychologist and primatologist named Harry Harlow. Baby rhesus monkeys were separated from their mothers and presented with the choice of two kinds of surrogates: a cuddly mother made out of terry cloth or an uninviting mother made out of wire mesh. The wire-mesh mother, however, had a nipple that would dispense warm milk. The babies invariably took their nourishment quickly in order to rush back and cling to the terry-cloth mother, which had enough softness to provide the illusion of affection. But even that isn’t enough for psychological health: in a separate experiment, more than 75 percent of female baby rhesus monkeys raised with terry-cloth mothers—as opposed to real ones—grew up to be abusive and neglectful to their own young.

    In the 1970s, American mothers maintained skin-to-skin contact with their nine-month-old babies as little as 16 percent of the time, which is a level of contact that traditional societies would probably consider a form of child abuse. Also unthinkable would be the common practice of making young children sleep by themselves in their own room. In two American studies of middle-class families during the 1980s, 85 percent of young children slept alone—a figure that rose to 95 percent among families considered “well-educated.” Northern European societies, including America, are the only ones in history to make very young children sleep alone in such numbers. The isolation is thought to trigger fears that make many children bond intensely with stuffed animals for reassurance. Only in Northern European societies do children go through the well-known developmental stage of bonding with stuffed animals; elsewhere, children get their sense of safety from the adults sleeping near them.

    More broadly, in most human societies, almost nobody sleeps alone. Sleeping in family groups of one sort or another has been the norm throughout human history and is still commonplace in most of the world. Again, Northern European societies are among the few where people sleep alone or with a partner in a private room. When I was with American soldiers at a remote outpost in Afghanistan, we slept in narrow plywood huts where I could reach out and touch three other men from where I slept. They snored, they talked, they got up in the middle of the night to use the piss tubes, but we felt safe because we were in a group. The Taliban attacked the position regularly, and the most determined attacks often came at dawn. Another unit in a nearby valley was almost overrun and took 50 percent casualties in just such an attack. And yet I slept better surrounded by those noisy, snoring men than I ever did camping alone in the woods of New England.

    Many soldiers will tell you that one of the hardest things about coming home is learning to sleep without the security of a group of heavily armed men around them. In that sense, being in a war zone with your platoon feels safer than being in an American suburb by yourself. I know a vet who felt so threatened at home that he would get up in the middle of the night to build fighting positions out of the living-room furniture. This is a radically different experience from what warriors in other societies go through, such as the Yanomami, of the Orinoco and Amazon Basins, who go to war with their entire age cohort and return to face, together, whatever the psychological consequences may be. As one anthropologist pointed out to me, trauma is usually a group experience, so trauma recovery should be a group experience as well. But in our society it’s not.

  37. SJF
    March 17, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    The whole concept of “addiction” is nuts.

    Think of it this way – people do things because doing them is better than the alternative.

    The same as the answer to “why do people live in slums?” It is better than the alternative.

    We like to think of people with addictions as “broken”. I like to think of them as coping.

  38. Define better.

    Addiction is a condition in which a person engages in use of a substance or in a behavior for which the rewarding effects provide a compelling incentive to repeatedly pursue the behavior despite (ed. potentially) detrimental consequences.

  39. SJF
    March 18, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    Better than waking up in the middle of the night screaming. Every single night. Every time you try to get some sleep. .

  40. SJF
    March 17, 2018 at 11:32 pm

    What is left out of that Vanity Fair article is the genetics. Only 20% have the genes for long term PTSD. The author mentions the 20% but gives no clue as to the origin.

    And the genes have been mapped.

  41. “If only Stalin had got his “rushes” from morphine instead of mass murder.”

    Guess that’s why Hilter was so nice. He shot up just about everything.
    Good thing those Germans were doing meth!
    If not, we’d have lost the Battle of the Bulge.

  42. SJF – ‘Into the Mystic’ as a prayer to guide the surgeon’s hand. My heartfelt thanks for describing that.human wish for Godspeed. You don’t know how much, suddenly seeing that just now, means to me. But I must thank you.

    I’m gonna take your description along with me tomorrow.

    Sorry about the past exchanges SJF.

  43. I always admire these writings no matter how painful they are. I think about the nature of “you cannot negotiate genuine desire” and how valid this is. While I do agree that this is the case for women, I also think this can be applied to men as well. However does it not seem that civilization as we know it was built upon the contract of negotiated desire? When marriage existed between a young or even virgin wife and her husband, it was a contract that if she negotiated her desire for him while she was young, then when she was older and thus unattractive, it was up to him to negotiate his desire for her. And of course there were harsh penalties if a man didn’t negotiate that desire and chose the path of divorce for a younger more attractive woman after his “loving” wife’s sexuality had expired over the years. These penalties usually meant financial ruin among other things. Of course as of today there seems to be an equal if not greater amount of entitlement that older women, those who have hit or are close to hitting the wall, should have access to less than alpha men and their resources – which often times is non-negotiable due to the legal family court system, tax and redistribution system or just simply dating expectations.

  44. Buying a ticket can take someone for an interesting trip, but never into the uncharted territory where most men yearn to be.

  45. I’m just a casual reader of this site, but married for 25 years, and have lots of hot sex with my wife still. So,just an observation – I see some couples our age, maybe 30% that seem pretty happy, successful and they claim to love each other. They have sex… I’m not they think about it being transactional – they just fuck for fun and to be close. Look, take it from an old guy ( 52) I see some sense in these red pill type arguments, but if you have a chance to have what they have -love affection.. respect… isn’t that as alpha as it gets? Besides that, I generally agree with the general outlines of your ideas, but I wouldn’t state it in the same harsh terms. I don’t sheepishly follow my wife around, I’n generally a confident guy, ride motorcycles, I’m a sailor, successful in business, but I would not say i’m 100% alpha or beta. I play my role as alpha, and that is a distinction. I play the role, but I realize that ultimately we humans are all fucked, we will die soon enough of some horrible disease. In the time before that, i’ll try to love my wife and family because that is all that really matters in the end. And in that final frame, this red pill/ blue pill stuff will seem like a a lot of games and strutting.

  46. Gentlemen,

    I’m interested in your viewpoint. I’m female and in what has been predominantly a sexless marriage for the past few years. What, if anything, can I do to fix this situation? I feel like I’ve tried everything and really the only advice out there seems to address men in such a situation. I will respond to any specific questions about this if you believe it will aid in your providing a helpful response.


  47. Validation sex is that kind of sex where girls are almost begging you to validate her by putting your D inside.

    I don’t know for you but for me, the biggest satisfaction is to see women actually wanting to jump on me and I’m kinda reluctant and demanding.

    I demand from her different stuff in order for her to get what she wants. It’s not that common, it’s not easy to be in that position but once you feel that power it’s almost addictive.


  48. Guys that act like this are a massive turn off & even if they give me orgasms I eventually just stop talking to them. When sex becomes a transaction, it bleeds the fun out. Also, thinking that any man that I have sex with will become the father of my children really is a fun sucker. Alpha males, blah, so high school. This article is one of the problems women today are facing. We get horny too, not just because we’re meant to have babies or get married. We get horny on our periods, we get horny when we’re pregnate, we get horny on birth control and in every situation in between. I can’t speak for all women, but it doesn’t seem like this article consulted any women. Also, we really love oral sex & anal. Women are ubiquitous, in the future, consult us before writing an article that dives into our sex organs and behavioral patterns of arousal. Maybe the next subject needs to dive into why men find the female orgasm so elusive. Thx

  49. Well written. With this in mind the resentment many women have for their “nice” beta husbands makes perfect sense. He does nice things and expects transactional sex in return. But without attraction to him the idea of having sex with hin becomes repulsive.

    I can imagine how this must feel when I think about having a fat and/or ugly wife. It would be bad enough to see her wabbling around the house. But then when she is extra kind and extra sweet to you because she want to have sex, this could be a cause of anger even. Worse yet, if we imagine she tries to put her potato body into some lingerie to seduce you. Disgusting. About the same feeling the beta males wife must have when she sees him dish-washing-for-sex.

    The big problem I can see with this truth is the lack of a solution for the 80%ers. Transactional sex is indeed the only form of sex they will ever know. Some beta men might be able to improve, find a mission, build up their body and become at least a lesser alpha but most will not.

    Remember: Even transactional sex is a way to solve the reproductive problem. Hell, even rape is – think war-brides. If you cant have the real thing, you might be able to marry a single mom, have another child with her and in return pay the bills. At least you have a child. If you stay unaware of the red pill you might even enjoy the illusion. Beta is the best they can do and perhaps NOT knowing the red pill is more blessing for these guys than we realize.

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