All In

I can remember reading with great interest the particulars of Tiger Woods’ affairs when they went public. Considering his talent and drive I had always thought he’d cashed in far too early by marrying his Swedish model, but this woman represented the feminine archetype most men idealize for most of their lives. When the unattainable becomes attainable for a man so deprived, he tends to look past anything but his most immediate gratification.

However, Tiger was following a common script for beta men, and just this weekend a new example of this script has been illustrated for us in the resignation of General David Petraeus. Petraeus’ story is a classic tale of when youthful beta idealism, an almost self-affirming obliviousness of the SMP, and a Contextual Alpha status run headlong into the realities of our contemporary sexual marketplace and the brave new world of a fem-centric society.

Understandably most of the media concern about Petraeus revolves around the political implications of his resignation as CIA director, but there’s much more ‘under the hood’ here with respect to how he came to resign. For the breakdown have a read here for the timeline of events.

First and foremost, Petraeus is a beta. I realize that’s going to come off as presumptuous on my part, and possibly offensive, but I’m making this assessment based on history and behaviors here.

Disgraced former CIA Director David Petraeus exchanged a sexually explicit email about having sex under a desk with his mistress and continued to pursue her by bombarding her with thousands of messages even after she had broken off the affair it has been revealed.

I have no doubt that manosphere readers subscribing to the “Leaders of Men” definition of Alpha will have their rationales about how Petraeus was never really Alpha, or his actions prove his betaness, but his story follows a common pattern for betas in a feminized social structure. He married his idyllic ‘high school sweetheart’ and launched his military career. Only later in life does he become aware of his true SMV as his wife’s nose-dives after hitting the wall. After his contextual Alpha status has been established he begins to come to awareness of his now matured SMV, and a flirty, subjectively attractive, late 30s PhD looks a whole lot better than clinging to the idealism that’s kept him unaware of how the SMP really works.

For young idealistic betas, the fairytale scenario of marrying the ‘girl of your dreams’ out of high school (college?) seems perfect. If you need a musical example of this, listen to any Taylor Swift song or ‘Hey there Delilah’ by the Plain White T’s. The idea of only ever having sex with that one special girl, that “genetic celebrity”, only reinforces the fantasy for a young beta who’s never gotten laid before. At 17-19 this seems like conviction, but 37 years later, and after realizing his true SMV it’s a liability; it’s a sacrifice that cannot be appreciated.

The cruel hoax is then revealed once a man becomes established in his personality, his career, his maturation and mastery of his particular elements. His achievements are commonplace to the wife he’s been with for decades, but they’re a wellspring of attraction and arousal for women unfamiliar with how he achieved them. As I outlined in Navigating the SMP, there comes a point (usually by his early 30s) that a man, at least should, become aware of his higher sexual market value while realizing the SMV declination of the woman he’s committed himself to. He starts to see the code in the Matrix, and the long term wisdom, or lack of wisdom, his youthful idealism led him to.

The Status-to-Marriage Failsafe

As I stated though, a man should become more aware of his higher SMV as he matures. For some, this is an internalized, subconscious acknowledgement –it’s something a man knows, but either hasn’t the reason or the opportunity to act upon it. For other men it may be a more overt acknowledgement, one useful in prompting dread or reigniting competition anxiety in women. Still for others, such as Petraeus, the acknowledgement doesn’t really come until the right opportunity to address it comes along. In this case in the form of Paula Broadwell.

One societal fail-safe against this inevitable male SMV awareness the feminine imperative has established for women comes in tying a man’s status to his degree of commitment to his wife. For as accomplished and determined a man is, for as lofty as his achievements may be, in girl-world none of that matters unless it directly benefits a woman he’s committed to in an enduring security. Beyond the obvious financial imbalances written into our contemporary divorce laws, there is the societal aspect that accompanies a man’s ‘downfall’ when he cheats on his wife. Tiger Woods could weather the cash & prizes settlement of his divorce, but what he couldn’t weather was the hit to his reputation. His status, his personal perception, was damaged as a result of his breach of contract. Similarly Petraeus, a General with the distinction of a storied military career and directorship of the CIA had his status diminished as a result of this status-to-marriage association.

To further complicate matters Petraeus himself ‘believes’ in this status association so strongly that he was willing to resign his position – relinquishing the source of status that made him attractive to the likes of Broadwell – in order to comply with it.

Back to Beta

Petraeus’ story of beta doesn’t end here. As his relationship with Broadwell decayed we can see further evidence of reverting to beta in his ‘thousands of emails’ to her. As with most people reinserted into the SMP after having married in their youth, Petraeus reverts back to the only social skill set he knew when he was dating his wife – an adolescent social skill set. So the beta desperation comes back strong. For all of his post-revelation posturing about how “We all will make mistakes. The key is to recognize them and admit them, to learn from them, and to take off the rear view mirrors – drive on and avoid making them again.” Petraeus literally made thousands of them. Like any desperate beta I’ve consulted with, he ‘wants his girlfriend baaaaack’ and so, like a teenage boy, inundates her with a barrage of emails over the course of months – not unlike the battery of texts Tiger Woods sent to his mistresses.

I often get criticism for suggesting men ‘explore their options’ in their 20’s. Spin Plates, learn Game, understand the intricacies of how a feminized acculturation has crafted men to be what the imperative would have them be. The idealistic zeal of young men is admirable, (it’s what makes us men) but it’s important to take a long-view of how that idealism is useful to a feminized society. Have a look at the context and reporters uncovering this story. There is no male perspective, there is no male insight, only the reactions of a female perspective in accordance with the feminine specific understanding of the SMV and the social failsafes instituted by fem-centrism.

The set of convictions idealistic young men cling to today aren’t what they believe they are. Your ideal of a “quality woman”, you’re grandfather’s high school sweetheart who was your grandmother are useful archetypes that the imperative is more than happy to have you delude yourself with. There may have been a time when that idealism meant something, but it’s important to understand that it is now a tool of a feminine-primary acculturation.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Nick
Guest

This is the first I’ve heard about the 1000’s of emails he sent to her. I could tell by his body language long ago he was never Alpha. Though this is a great illustration of SMV and the female imperative, it’s also an indication of how bureaucratic “managers” can reach positions of supreme authority. There was a time when men of such stature had combat experience and mighty deeds to their name, no more.

walawala
Guest
walawala

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-25-2012/exclusive—push-up-contest-to-benefit-wounded-veterans

Here’s the video of Paula Broadwell’s interview with Jon Stewart.

Midway through, he accepts her invitation to do a push-up contest and Jon invites her husband up.

Check out the husband. Then listen to her. She oozes sexuality and beats both betas in the push-up contest.

Petraeus’ SMV was the key factor. When she finished her book, she finished with him.

I find it revealing that he sent “thousands of emails”….

asdf
Guest
asdf

Yes, this is a pretty good example of a guy without strong convictions rising to the top of a large organization because he plays ball and makes people happy. In fact most people are the top of large organizations are either hyper alphas (psychopaths), hyper betas (please and compromise masters), or some combination of the two.

Martel
Guest
Martel

The alpha Rollo refers to (sexual alpha) is obviously alpha, but “leaders of men” alpha as well, albeit in a different form. In our feminized society, hypergamy (a female sexual imperative) is over-prioritized. This makes sexual alphas the true alphas, even if they’re economic betas. Conversely, an economic or political alpha, if he’s a sexual beta, becomes a sort of slave. It’s all about the female. So, if you can master hypergamy, even if you don’t produce squat, you rule. If you successfully orchestrate a military victory or create companies that make all of our lives easier, you’re one legal… Read more »

Dillon
Guest
Dillon

I’m surprised that a man of his position didn’t know better than to leave such a huge embarrasing paper(email) trail.

The Shocker
Guest
The Shocker

Amazingly, Petraeus was one of my alpha heroes! I read a profile years ago on Petraeus and his rat pack fraternity entourage of GI Joe’s- he had a core group of green beret’d, hard-partying professionals around him 24/7. I mean Petraeus and his guys would be in a presidential suite in Baghdad one day turning military strategy on its head and running a war- and that night they’d be getting blasted in a pub in Berlin after flying there in a black ops plane. Petraeus operated like a one man wrecking ball the world over and he had this ultra… Read more »

ASF
Guest
ASF

Her husband is such a wimp. Admits that she wins all the arguments = she is more manly than he is. No tingles. This story is almost inevitable really.

Wilson
Guest
Wilson

Apparently all those messages worked if Broadwell was engaging in stalkerish behavior…

ar10308
Guest

@walawala
Does she really call those half-assed gyrations push-ups? Holy shit. Her arms barely break 90degrees.

And Balls
Guest
And Balls

His wife is a fuckin troll. what a fag

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red

Paula Broadwell has a tremendous Manjaw.

FORE!

Aleph
Guest

Is it fair to call Petraeus a beta? The man was in the highest throes of the ruling class and theoretically held the lives of billions of people in his hands by virtue of the military power he wielded. He has had a successful career, undoubtedly after having competed against a number of competent, highly qualified men. Objectively speaking, he is an alpha male. Paula Broadwell fucked him, despite her husband and two kids, because he was an alpha male. Just a sexually inexperienced alpha male. Petraeus is a man who, like you said, was attached to his idyllic interpretation… Read more »

taterearl
Guest

The manjaw on the mistress is strong. Petraeus’s wife is a classic example of what happens to a woman that stays married to a beta. She’s homely, overweight, and looks all of 60 years old.

Sounds like his mistress just cheated on a beta with a beta who had an alpha gig.

Martel
Guest
Martel

Sexual and politcal (leaders of men) alpha are both alpha, interrelated, but distinct.

Because of hypergamy run amock, sexual alphas now trump political alphas in nearly every way. So, in effect, as alpha as Petraeus may be, he’s a beta.

It’s all about the tingle. You don’t produce it in women, you ain’t shit.

But, as Vox said recently, “It will be interesting to see how long a society full of women’s study majors, lawyers, and social workers will be able to survive on the wealth produced by men who are players, thugs, and videogame junkies. “

immoralgables
Guest

@Aleph

Being alpha is a state of mind

Tiger was too much of a beta to own up to his sexual escapades.
Had he set the frame that he was a player from the start then I doubt there would have been as much of a backlash. Granted, if he was a player he wouldn’t have gotten married so young and thus his ordeal would not have occurred.

Jack
Guest
Jack

I think the untold story of this saga is the woman. How A-typical her actions are and how utterly disgusting they are. This woman had what many women would consider a 5 star catch. Her husband was a rich doctor. An hoenest guy. The father of her two young children. The king provider who gave her the resources to go off and write these stupid books. But she risked it all for a shot with King Alpha…CIA Director. It is an amazing testament to the power of Hypergamey and to to the self centered motives of the modern woman. I… Read more »

Aleph
Guest

@immoralgables So because he wanted to protect his children from the public image of their father as a man who humiliates their mother, that makes him beta? Despite the fact that he’s having sex, probably just by showing up in some places, with multiple women? The fact that he probably wouldn’t make nearly as much money or have anywhere near as much power with the player-vibe attached to him means he’s a beta male for trying to hide it? Realize that the vast majority of the public does not respond positively to a sexually liberated male who pursues his options.… Read more »

Aleph
Guest

@Rollo I don’t see how context is of any importance here. Like I said before, Petraeus is/was an alpha male by the measure of damn near every other man on this planet. There are probably only a couple hundred men, if that, walking this earth who could claim to wield more power than he did just last week. Power makes an alpha male. The fact that he is, from as far as we can tell, sexually oblivious, does not detract from that cred. We could drop him in any social setting and he could probably have his pick of the… Read more »

Martel
Guest
Martel

Alpha is a function of power. Women wanting to bang you is a form of power. Being able to order men to their deaths is a form of power.

Harry Truman was the apex political alpha of his day, ordering the dropping ot 2 atom bombs, but in regards to his wife he was downright omega.

A few months back there were a few articles about some schlub who couldn’t keep a job at a car wash but who had something like 30 kids with 25 different women.

Obviously a far more consequential man that Harry Truman.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

You’re defining Alpha from a male, social-specific perspective. Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic. There are convicted murderers on death row who have women waiting in line for conjugal visits, and there are unsigned up and coming rockstars who get more ass than any ‘leader of men’. Most men would like to define Alpha in terms of how it serves men’s imperatives. Men define Alpha in terms of what they think women should appreciate about men, because they can appreciate those traits. For women, defining Alpha doesn’t even occur to them – they feel Alpha. They reflexively… Read more »

Martel
Guest
Martel

Rollo, you’re entirely correct within the context of today’s matriarchy. What She wants, She gets. Hypergamy’s tingle is king. But under a patriarchy, not so much. She might fantasize about the gardener 24/7, but men in a partiarchy determine men’s worth. And if she boinks the gardener and gets caught, she’s toast. Hypergamy has always been with us, but it’s only been since feminism that she’s been crowned king. Before that she had to cooperate with how it “served men’s imperatives”. Today, you’re right, Petraeus is a beta and Mystery’s an alpha. But back then, Truman was an alpha no… Read more »

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

“That’s what really gets me skeptical of the “power” of game in general. You are calling guys like Tiger Woods beta males, despite the fact that they are having more sex than your neighborhood alpha male and are swimming in sexual abundance. How is it even remotely possible that these men are betas? That’s like calling a warm-blooded, furry creature a fish because it swims in water.” I’d call Petraeus and Woods rapidly promoted alphas, those who are at some point thrust into the swirling feminine darkness of apex alphadom after living what were probably rather austere beta lives. Lack… Read more »

asdf
Guest
asdf

“There are probably only a couple hundred men, if that, walking this earth who could claim to wield more power than he did just last week.”

If he’s that alpha how can all his power be taken away in a week by an affair?

Answer: He was never that alpha. All of his power rested on the fact that he behaved a certain way and used his power the way others wanted.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-25-2012/exclusive—push-up-contest-to-benefit-wounded-veterans I just watched the whole of the John Stewart interview of Broadwell from January of this year, and all I can say is wow. If you ever wanted a better illustration of hypergamy in action you wont find it. In light of her affair and everything that’s come to Petraeus resignation it’s just incredible to watch her composure when you know what she knows in her own head. She is a shining example of how deftly an attractive woman can keep her secrets. Only a woman can cognitively distance herself from reality in so perfected a fashion that she… Read more »

Jack
Guest
Jack

The basics of this story are so easy to read. You have a girl who can’t control her hypergamey instinct who is probably married to a beta man who doesn’t understand the self-centered ways of women and therefore can’t control his flock. You have a CIA Director married to a butt ass ugly wife who probably hasn’t boned him in years who has developed an aswesome power and aura to himself through years of professional hard work. These two meet. His busted ex wife and lack of sex mix with her unchecked hypergamey instinct and beta husband and BAM they… Read more »

immoralgables
Guest

@Aleph

I get what you’re saying and I’ll try to be flexible here but I think Glengarry summed it up best below your recent comment.

What do you think of Tiger going to the sex addiction center? Of apologizing to everyone? Of getting chased out of his house by his golf-club wielding wife?

kleyau
Guest

General Patreaus isn’t beta, he’s just doesn’t have an intellectual understanding of game. Bill Burr has a good routine about how men aren’t prepared for the female attention and societal consequences of promotion into a super alpha position.

Commenting on his wife and his alphaness doesn’t really work for the military. The only men in the military that are married to hot women either knock them up every deployment, are not workaholics and spend every moment away from work with their families, or get cheated on.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

AD has a very good round up of the Petraeus affair, with a lot more details than I had been aware of:

http://dissention.wordpress.com/2012/11/10/a-quick-roundup-of-the-petraeus-affair/

Buck
Guest
Buck

Character, the only trait that can never be taken…just surrendered!
A low life is a low life, no matter how fancy you dress them up!

kleyau
Guest

Buck, people are as faithful as their options. A beautiful women gained entry to his inner circle, and he succumbed to temptation. This doesn’t negate the massive amount of service he has given our country and its people. Even the husband of the woman he was having an affair with acknowledged his qualities of leadership. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/magazine/a-message-from-beyond.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1352753206-TZFnUfwHpvfl8hf13AkGXQ

AW
Guest
AW

Hmmmm, there’s another possibility that I don’t hear anyone addressing: Perhaps she was an intellectual gold digger. By which I mean, what better way to get the juicy scoop and insider secrets from this guy but to get him all wrapped up in a hopeless case of oneitis? He sent her “thousands” of emails? She probably knew what she was doing the whole time and methodically played him like a mark in the long con game. She’s probably just another soulless career woman, who’ll do whatever it takes to advance her agenda. She perceived his inner beta right off and… Read more »

Corey
Guest
Corey

@Nick
“…it’s also an indication of how bureaucratic “managers” can reach positions of supreme authority. There was a time when men of such stature had combat experience and mighty deeds to their name, no more.”

Stanley McChrystal fit that profile. Not only did he have combat experience, but he took part in dangerous special ops missions *while* he was a general. But alas, he was fired for calling Obama names. Apparently, he was too alpha.

nek
Guest
nek

While I don’t like the overanalysis of what’s alpha and wha’ts beta, I think the “leader of men” thing needs to be addressed. This guy is a “leader of men” because essentially we’re told he’s a leader of men and other men are there to enforce it. (i.e. you know that if you don’t obey his command as a subordinate that you will physically be dealt with by enforcement elements). The “alpha” with regard to sex is a leader of men as well as women, but he doesn’t need some position ordained by others to verify this, people (men and… Read more »

Aleph
Guest

You guys haven’t convinced me. All because X has more sex despite lower status does not mean he has greater alpha credentials than Y. It does not mean that if X and Y were in a head-to-head competition for mating privileges that X would win by virtue of the fact that he’s had more sex than Y. I cannot have special appreciation for X because he gets more fucks than Y. @asdf This is like calling the POTUS a beta because he gives up his seat after two terms. At the end of the day, you must respect the fact… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

‘There’s a reason the “asshole” gets the love. They command genuine respect (i.e. fear). An ugly truth amongst ugly truths.’ I don’t know about ‘assholes’ getting love. Well the guys that don’t deserve to act like that anyway. I know a lot of douches that are scrawny and that if it were in a less feminized time would get their head stomped in when they tried to be arrogant to other guys that are objectively better than they are. I believe that in modern times in the middle class and up you can act like a douchebag/asshole and get away… Read more »

jimmy
Guest
jimmy

Its amusing and possibly wickedly satisfying to witness the trajectory of the pseudo alpha crash and burn and then ultimately wallow in the sticky mess at the end. Where better to observe variations of this story unfold then in mixed work places (I am sure anywhere in the world) with the contextual, situational alpha male, hypergamy and a female underling. I have witnessed the male manager who benefits from the purely coincidental circumstances of alpha projection upon him by a female or females (usually of the more emotional riding types) in many a work place. The form of this can… Read more »

trackback

[…] some of his actions were not totally alpha. But, no one is a complete alpha. The manosphere seems to overly focus on alpha/beta way too much. […]

AnonWriter
Guest

Broadwell is a fucking batshit crazy woman. Patraeu wanted a little on the side and probably didn’t know he was sticking his dick in crazy.

Derek Scruggs
Guest

Sooo… Eisenhower was beta too?

nek
Guest
nek

@furiousferret, I completely agree. ‘Status’, like being able to get away with assholeness, use to be established with violence and only violence. You’ll never hear me tell a guy that size, muslce, and going to the gym aren’t important. I hear guys complain about what girls get away with due to societal enforcement “Alpha Proxies”. The irony is that guys can “game” because of these same things. Six years ago I moved to a large military area and let me tell you, if you try to “AMOG” some guy here you better have the physical tools to back it up… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

Just noticing that as this thing has played out I’ve thought much of rationalmale & this discussion community, and i’ve felt like I could see right through the smoke straight to what’s really at play, even to the point of instinctively anticipating which smoke bomb would be tossed next. It’s with both sadness & satisfaction that I can say, minor disagreements over first and 2nd definitions of alpha not withstanding, we all seem to have seen the same source code and recognized the same pattern. A sociologist could separate us, feed us small details, let us make predictions independently about… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

I realize that’s going to come off as presumptuous on my part, and possibly offensive, but I’m making this assessment based on history and behaviors here. So. You take as definitive a third-hand account as reported by an unsourced Fleet Street tabloid over the incontrovertible facts of his heroism in battle, grace under fire, leadership of men, and record as the first general in American history to win two wars. Because the former comports to your easy-breezy speculations on an almost totally tangential issue: bitches. When all you have is a hammer (game theory), everything looks like a nail. There… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

Another note. was listening to an interview earlier on NPR about this. A lot of good stuff but most noteworthy was that after a highly sympathetic interview by interviewer, interviewee and callers alike a woman identifying as a “military wife” called in during the last minute to rail on about how she and all these other military wives are in agreement that he has no integrity and none of his accomplishments matter and he’ll go down in history as a failed man for all of this. So much so much. The sisterhood defending its own. Feminized matrix consuming its producers.… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

The rush to overinterpret the smallest indicators is worse than confirmation bias. It is a positive threat to the applicability of your general theory. Which leads credulous, average, frustrated readers to pretend a world exists where Corey Worthington is somehow more “alpha” than the most decorated general in modern American history. But because you saw a picture of the general’s body language, you’ve uncracked the code, you know what the real story is. Please.

The echo chamber no longer rings in your ears because you have become deaf from it.

Matt

Ahab
Guest
Ahab

I second Petraeus being a beta.

I just searched google images and in most photos the guy has a submissive-beta smile and weak body language.

And to anyone that claims him to be a battle hardened alpha – that’s not true. Many a battle-hardened soldiers bit a bullet when they got the divorce papers.

And his wife is a warpig. If i were him, I would have the press quote me saying “have you seen my wife?!”

Aleph
Guest

@ King

“Which leads credulous, average, frustrated readers to pretend a world exists where Corey Worthington is somehow more “alpha” than the most decorated general in modern American history.”

This is precisely the fantasy that most game bloggers play up to hawk products and obtain e-fame.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“This is precisely the fantasy that most game bloggers play up to hawk products and obtain e-fame.”

What’s the point of achieving all the great things in life and having that prestige and power when you are enslaved in beta mentality to women?

It means nothing if you achieve professional success and then live in a personal hell at home.

Afonso Henriques
Guest

Honestly Rollo, You are right. However, you’re only right, I think, due to the femeninised and shallow society we live in. If you marry your college/high school sweetheart, she stands by you all of your life, gives you children, acts decently, and what not, then, her declining SMV would be so much awfull? No. You got my drift. But don’t bother answering back for I have already said that, in this real society we live in, you are undoubtedly right. Hate the game, don’t hate the player. [It’s less about society and more about simple pragmatism. This is your ‘quality… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

Guys, given a random word in the dictionary there is first, second, third, etc definitions, all true. this argument is as much as arguing about which definition is THE true definition. It doesn’t matter. No one argues Petraeus is/was a contextual alpha. Does it change much one way or the other if he was a sexual alpha? IMO all of this preoccupation with whether or not Petraeus is alpha gets away from the broader social points of this article, i.e.: ” Have a look at the context and reporters uncovering this story. There is no male perspective, there is no… Read more »

Aleph
Guest

Making it your life’s work specifically to eventually “cash in” and please women rings more of enslavement to me than Petraeus sending emails. Another point about this email issue: it was most likely an exchange of emails and not the one-way river-of-text that you guys are making it out to be. The man was fucking a hot, famous author with elite academic credentials under his desk and you fools are still calling him an enslaved beta. If you think this is beta, then count the number of text messages you’ve sent back and forth to a love interest. It’s probably… Read more »

Philalethes
Guest
Philalethes

For a little, er, broader perspective on this story, which seems to be blowing up like a balloon…

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/11/11/a-covert-affair-petraeus-caught-in-the-honeypot

Mark Minter
Guest

Rollo, Go read USAToday. com. They just changed their format and it is an example of perfect design that will function well in the coming Tablet Age. When you are in a story, you scroll up and down like normal, but there are arrow keys for left and right to go to the next story, within a section like turning a page in the newpaper. And they imbed suggested readings right in the middle of the story. The change the font and indentation so you know it is not part of the story but usually the reading is pertinent. I… Read more »

Ceer
Guest
Ceer

Given Patreus’ age, it’s not surprising at all that he’s got at least some beta in him. After all, he was probably raised that way. Resigning suggests total blue pill immersion. That said, he’s alpha in so many other ways, I’d call him alpha. AFAIK, here’s the alpha breakdown — Leader of men — Excelled at use of force — Cheated and admitted it…wife sticks by him — Made a high value woman tingle The only thing that could make this guy more alpha is if he could keep mistress’ tingles up. Assuming a blue pill upbringing, no wonder he… Read more »

Tertullian
Guest
Tertullian

Several weeks ago GeishaKate concluded a fawning post to King A with the following:

“PS you’ve got mail :-)”

Next up: the tabloids expose the illicit, steamy, verbose and saccharine email correspondence between “GeishaKate” and “King A (Matthew King).”

Come on, Matt….share a few of your emails to and from Kate! Educate all of us poor, doomed, damned PUA wannabees on how a real Alpha runs email game.

dragnet
Guest
dragnet

“Alpha really isn’t about your status—it’s a mindset. It’s an inherent belief in the necessity, righteousness and beauty of maleness. If you haven’t embraced your masculinity and thrown off the shackles of the gynocracy that seeks to poison and destroy your manhood, then it doesn’t matter how accomplished, high-status, wealthy and famous you are. You really are just another chump.” http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/generation-afc/#comment-5476 “The pervasive phenomenon of male ego investments slaved to gynocentrism is one of few places where many alphas & betas are in the exact same place.” http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/generation-afc/#comment-5505 “What’s important to remember about Tiger is that he’s a beta chump… Read more »

dragnet
Guest
dragnet

I would only add that it is likely fitting and proper for Petraeus to resign in light of the affair. He is the head of a clandestine service, and something like this—if found out by US adversaries—could be used to blackmail or otherwise wreak injury upon US interests. It also a potentially highly disruptive breach of discipline.

Otherwise a great, great post.

Primer
Guest
Primer

Sales of that book will skyrocket. That’s all I have to say.

Primer
Guest
Primer

Hypergamy doesn’t care about national security.

Mark Minter
Guest

There is a key fact here. Patraeus started his career in the mid-70s. If you were in the military in the mid-70s or early 80s, then you were dirt as far as women were concerned. Soldiers at that time just looked so weird compared to normal society with their short hair and they looked entirely out of place in the fashion of the day. And they were hated in the military towns where the Marines and the Army are located. Fort Bragg is a horrible place. So is Benning in Georgia. Jacksonville, NC for the Marines is as bad, maybe… Read more »

Dillon
Guest
Dillon

Men are not Alpha or Beta, its their behavior at any given time that can be perceived as Alpha or Beta by the observer. A man may behave mostly Alpha but that can easily change depending on the situation he finds himself in. He may have to apologize like a Beta to prevent loss. In a matriarchal society as ours, it does not matter how Alpha one thinks he is, one wrong move and he can always be bought down on the whim of a woman/group of Betas (who btw are convinced they are Alphas). I thinking in terms of… Read more »

nek
Guest
nek

“A man should do what he thinks he needs to do to ensure the best outcome for himself.”

This is a win. I’d add that they need to be honest with themselves as to what they really want as well.

Aleph
Guest

@Mark Minter This idea that Petraeus is a former beta who somehow clawed his way to the top from the cesspool of grunts is factually incorrect. The man has been in elite academies and universities his entire life. He’s always been a top competitor and leader. [I can think of more aspie STEM nerds who graduated in similar fashions, and hold positions of leadership in their particular realms.] Perhaps the only thing he is guilty of is strict adherence to the idyllic fantasy of the military’s virtuousness and the inevitable reflection that (silly) discipline would have on his love life.… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

I don’t understand why the concept that man can be alpha in terms of making money, being physically dominant, and socially dominant with society particularly with men and still be a total beta in terms of romantic relations with women. According to this link: http://glpiggy.net/2009/07/24/carl-jungs-observations-of-the-american-husband/ Carl Jung observed that American men where absolutely ruthless and sharks in business and industry while at the same time being submissive pussies in relationships with their wives. Given the information it seems like Petraeus was a beta in his dealings with this Broadwell chick. Nothing new is under the sun. You ever hear that… Read more »

Retrenched
Guest
Retrenched

It could be said that Petraeus is alpha in his ability to attract women but beta in his handling of them, similar to Tiger Woods and Robert Pattinson.
[,..and Mystery.]

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

The alpha/beta argument has been played out for at least a couple of years now so I’m not going to waste my time typing up another long winded breakdown of why the PUA definition of alpha is inherently flawed, but I will say that most guys who would call a high powered military general a beta would probably be surprised to know just how much “beta” behavior the average “alpha” engages in on a weekly basis. This superman pussy magnet who utters only alpha words (unless he is consciously mimicking beta behaviors in order to score some pussy, of course!)… Read more »

Gossip's Truth's No Gospel
Guest

Thought I’d copy paste this from what someone posted earlier (regarding this topic): Anonymous on November 13, 2012 at 1:34 am said: This was in response to an article at huffington post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-belkin/petraeus-cheat_b_2104705.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women) but the comment was too long to be posted there, so I’m posting it here. Thanks. Take your time. It will certainly come off as pretentious ambivalence, though beyond the wordiness this is only one aspect of the many fallacies we’re beyond a doubt taught to adhere to in this “Country”. This has become longer than expected. I could add sources to any claim made below, however… Read more »

michaeltx
Guest
michaeltx

@Philalethes , Great link.

Nice to see a fellow traveler here.

Martel
Guest
Martel

I truly wonder if there will every be anyone, ever, who will actually read that entire comment.

blackbird.young
Guest

Probably not, but voice’s need be heard. Whoever they may be.

TD
Guest
TD

Alpha is all about context. There’s plenty of guys who are good with women but absolutely suck in the economic world. Charisma’s only useful if you have the skills to back it up. Likewise, there’s plenty of guys who are great leaders of men and great problem solvers who, for whatever reason, never learn to talk to women.

Buck
Guest
Buck

@Kleyau, I didn’t identify which one I was addressing with my character quip, interesting that you jump to defend Petraeus, I was actually thinking of the adultress. But, that said, you are inferring that an efficient leader, good manager, technically expert person is, by demonstration of a particular skill set, not eligible to be a low life… I have no ax to grind with Petraeus but lets face certain uncomfortable revelations; 1) cheating on the wife when you are in such a public position Can we say serious lack of judgement?!?! 2) Banging your biographer You are kidding, right? 3)… Read more »

3rd Millenium Men
Guest

Posted earlier, didn’t seem to go through. I read this post when it came out earlier Rollo, and it took me some time to mull over. I think you’re spot on about Petraeus being a beta in his personal life. The way he poses, his actions, everything results in that being the logical point.

One of the biggest ways the Manosphere has affected my thinking is SMV.
http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/manosphere-female-age-and-sexual-market-value/

With all this said though… Petraus never would have reached the heights he would without his wife’s devotion and undoubtedly massive share of raising their kids while he was focused on the military.

taterearl
Guest

We are all just slaves to a uterus. Women know how to use them for their benefit…and some guys are more proficient at accessing them.

johnJohnz
Guest
johnJohnz

Could it just be Gchat messages when they refer to ‘thousands of emails’. Instant messaging could rack up that number quick.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Curiouser and curiouser. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/13/15130151-isaf-commander-gen-john-allen-under-investigation-over-inappropriate-emails?lite First Petraeus, now Allen: The official said the investigation involved some 20,000 to 30,000 pages of material, mostly emails, which were sent from 2010 to 2012. When I wrote Casualties, and outlined the life-or-death importance of learning Game, I now think this was too individually specific. I need to expand that importance to a larger meta-scale. When you have men in positions of this kind of authority and with this kind of necessity to the security of the most powerful nation on earth, a feminized beta mindset is a liability with implications that go far beyond… Read more »

JS
Guest
JS

The alpha/beta distinction in useful shorthand, but always ends up in endless debates about whether so-and-so in alpha or beta. It would be more useful to just say that certain things are attractive to women (making money, being physically dominant, and socially dominant, social proof, high-status, fame, non-supplicating, and the rest of the endless list) and other things aren’t. This endless list can be combined in an infinite variety of ways in individual men. You don’t have to have all of them to attract a woman, just a few will usually do, especially if you have one or two to… Read more »

Philalethes
Guest
Philalethes

In Zen there is a saying, “There are no enlightened beings, only enlightened activity.”

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Rollo suggested: You may want to read AD’s breakdown about Petraeus before you deify him any further. Not knowing who “AD” is or why anyone should pay attention to his opinion, I did read his “breakdown.” What is your point? Direct me to specific revelations that are relevant to your judgment or mitigate its overreach. I am not “deify[ing]” Petraeus. I am correcting your misimpression that he is an ipso-facto beta male based on a single highly questionable factoid (“bombarding her with thousands of messages even after she had broken off the affair”). The official said the investigation involved some… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

Rollo concludes: When you have men in positions of this kind of authority and with this kind of necessity to the security of the most powerful nation on earth, a feminized beta mindset is a liability with implications that go far beyond their inability to inspire ‘gina tingles. Congratulations feminism, the feminized Beta mindset is now an issue of national security. You now “need to expand [the] importance [of game] to a larger meta-scale”? Considering your stumbling start and tunnel-visioned confirmation bias, I predict disaster. Please direct us to hard evidence of the “feminized beta mindset” of Generals Petraeus and… Read more »

Sword
Guest
Sword

The hypocrisy that everyone focuses ON THE MALE, yet she had a family too should not go unnoticed.

[Agreed, but Petraeus seduced himself.]

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Matt, it’s interesting how readily you’ll embrace my estimation of Mystery as a Paper Alpha for basically the same reasons I’m detailing in my post here, yet when I make the same comparisons with a “Leader of Men®” you happen to have an affinity for it’s absolutist apoplexy on your part. It’s not hard to find romanticized examples of great men in history who were “brought low by the wiles of women”, but the fairytale we’d like to believe is that they lost a control they never really possessed. For all of their accomplishments they still lacked the experience fundamental… Read more »

Aleph
Guest

Petraeus wasn’t brought down by a woman. He was brought down by the FBI and the people in that agency who had it out for him.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Queen – again, get lost. You have no business polluting this blog. Go find yourself a “brown woman” you so like to disparage

LynxViridis
Guest

Alpha or Beta, how do we know that the General didn’t get more p***y during those 37 years?
Also, how could a general and director of CIA be so stupid as to have produced all those traceable emails? He should know better.

[Hmm,..kind of like how a certain billionaire golf star should’ve known that a text message is archived on the receiving phone, and sometimes those receiving them don’t erase them no matter how they plead them to. Beta is as Beta does.]

immoralgables
Guest

Don’t worry Rollo. Most people get the gist of what you’re sayin. It’s the same thing as the president of the company being a beta in his interactions with his wife and general mindset (“happy wife happy life”) even though he may be an alpha for the mere fact he can hire and fire people.

My dad was one of those. I got to witness it first hand.

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[…] General Patraeus, and there are so many manosphere related angles it is fascinating.  Rollo has accurately described Patraeus as beta, but for women it should also raise the question of how much alpha they really want.  See also […]

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

And by their White Knightery will you know the Beta: The generals’ letters to the court — written in the past two months — supported a motion to overturn a ruling made nearly a year earlier by a judge who resoundingly denied custody to Khawam, because of serious reservations about her honesty and mental stability, court records show. Beware the Beta in a position of authority, he is a tool of the femocracy. Actively colluding with the fem-centric legal system to separate a father from his children. How do you like your Petraeus now Matt? The father, Grayson Wolfe, was… Read more »

John O.
Guest
John O.

Some of you are assuming that Petraeus is alpha simply by virtue of reaching four star general rank.

You’re forgetting that every senior officer, throughout his career, has spent just as much time taking orders as giving them.

Tidlywinks
Guest
Tidlywinks

This doesn’t really belong here but I want to say this. I’ve been trying to get into game for a few months ever since I accidentally started using it a year ago. Still a recovering AFC but doing pretty good. A few days ago I saw some girl post on Facebook a picture about a real guy calls just to talk, texts you all the time, cries, ect. For what ever reason I called her on her illusion and fought her on it. I ended with the line ” I’ll bet you 5 dollars, a whole 5 dollars that the… Read more »

bob
Guest
bob

“Posted earlier, didn’t seem to go through. I read this post when it came out earlier Rollo, and it took me some time to mull over. I think you’re spot on about Petraeus being a beta in his personal life. The way he poses, his actions, everything results in that being the logical point. ” You have to understand that being beta is just like having a feminine mindset. It’s the exact same thing. Beta submit to their surroundings, they react, they never quite understand/identify something (lack of conceptualisation is a core element of female mind, something which you HAVE… Read more »

RockHard
Guest

It kind of bugs me that we’re starting to equate “alpha” as “good with women”, and “contextual alpha” as “AFC”. Let’s just call him an AFC and leave out the caveats about his otherwise successful life. What bugs me more is that this slut is a real camp follower, now there’s another general about to get taken out. Looks like she’d fuck anyone with a star on his shoulder and then dump him. Danny from 504 writes about this all the time, military guys are constant targets for this type of predatory chick behavior. AND, what bugs me even more… Read more »

bob
Guest
bob

And the cruel irony is that feminism is represented by the most masculine women (their ability to conceptualise is better than the average girl’s precisely because they are manly, and this ability gives them the power to influence other women or betas, and thus to lead a political movement), fights for the emancipation of women as women, but it is only possible thanks to a purely MASCULINE characteristic. You see the crazy mindfuck they’re in, there?

The Other Jim
Guest
The Other Jim

@Mark Minter “Here you are in the town of 50,000 locals, maybe, and there 50,000 18-22 year old oversexed boys with little or no contact with women to learn any social skills in terms of dealing with them.” Now that women are more common in the military there’s an interesting phenomenon seen with more and more frequency essentially called the ‘2-10-2’ rule. Women can go in the military rating a ‘2’ on the SMV but because of the scarcity of women in the military they become a ’10’. At least for the time they’re in the military. Upon leaving the… Read more »

Robert
Guest
Robert

Alpha is being the top dog. Beta is then only mating with one bitch. White Knighting is a beta tell, no matter how much gold braid you have on your uniform.

Matt “After a life of conquering and rapine that brought the Roman Empire close to total collapse, Atilla the Hun was murdered by his wife in their honeymoon bed. Are we to conclude that he is a beta?”

Yup. Honeymoon bed. All that conquering and rapine, and he still couldn’t Game her pants off.

Adam
Guest
Adam

Tiger Woods = beta

LOL

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

Matt said- That leads you to a preference for actors who look the part over naturals who define the part. The bastardization of the term “alpha” by the PUA community is less about having a preference for actors over naturals than it is about a bunch of guys who probably weren’t particularly good at much of anything growing up needing something to aspire to. In the PUA community there is no true definition of this term because alpha essentially means “whatever we deem to be good”. In their eyes a man can be an alpha even if he utilizes beta… Read more »

AD
Guest
AD
Karen
Guest
Karen

Female lurker here. Just wanted to add a pretty important detail about Holly Knowlton Petraeus. She is not his high school sweetheart, but is the daughter of the commandant of West Point while Petraeus was attending the academy. Knowlton retired as a four-star. Her family is Big Army, influential and connected. General Petraeus was ambitious and smart, like West Pointers are, but he probably have not reached the heights he did without her family connections. He would not have received the same opportunities as a young officer. I’m sure Cadet Petraeus was in love, but he fell in love with… Read more »

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[…] fair. Voter fraud doesn’t exist. Even liberals seem to be finding it rather strange. Related: Rollo & Dalrock on […]

OlioOx
Guest
OlioOx

(Here’s some thoughts on Oneitis, which Petraeus was clearly struggling with, so which gives me an excuse to post this): The One Exists…. …for some. Tomassi, and others, are always going on about ‘oneitis’ and how it is practically a mental illness, or at least an aberration, an obsession over something which is basically illusory, etc. But in the spirit of objective inquiry, we must consider counterexamples. For interest, I will describe some famous examples; but I also want you to think of people you have known in your own life — perhaps your parents, or your grandparents, or an… Read more »

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