Of Ego and Choice

ego

Last week I ran across a thread on the ‘Purple Pill Debate’ sub on Reddit that called into question the Red Pill idea that women’s egos have become overblown. This “debate” sub is essentially a forum dedicated to Blue Pill hacks expressing their dubious confusion about various topics discussed on the Red Pill sub so I wont grace the forum with a link here. That said, it is an interesting forum to peruse when looking for examples of how a lot of the fundamentals of Red Pill awareness are deliberately misconstrued. The Blue Pill mindset will make great efforts to insulate itself from unignorable Red Pill truths that threaten to break comforting ego-investments. Those efforts begin with a willful misunderstanding (and later denial) of Red Pill premises.

I’ve explored the topic of women’s ego inflation in various post on this blog, but truth be told I’ve had this more thorough examination sitting in my drafts folder for a while now. The idea that women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown is something I think the Red Pill community often takes for granted. It’s fairly easy to see both online and in real life. I resisted fleshing this post out for a while because it presents the risk of being perceived as some gratuitous attack on all-women-being-like-that in their ego aggrandizements, so I’ve been content to just allude to this phenomenon in my posts.

It’s easy to throw red meat to the manosphere in this respect since women’s inflated egos are something most factions of the ‘sphere almost unanimously agree on. And of course, simply doing so makes the man pointing it out, by default, a misogynist. Then, either the mud gets slung by indignant tumblrinasor his points are perfunctorily dismissed and the conversation ends.

The Purple Pill “Debate” thread was simple enough, but such misguidance needs to be:

A narrative that is constantly pushed is the notion that the female ego is inflated from a constant barrage of male attention, thus leading women to have an inflated sense of value.

Attention and offers of sex from random strange males is not validating in most cases. Male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. To put it into a more crude term “dick is cheap”. Being offered free sex from a man that is not attractive to you is the equivalent of being offered a free bag of feces. It is free and it still might have some value, but I am not going to take it.

The whole idea that any of this is extremely validating is farcical and incorrect.

This premise is misguided in two respects. The first is defining exactly what is contributing to women’s ego inflation. The second is how a woman is validated by the attention that contributes to it. I’ve written extensively on the psychological effects attention has on women. Attention is the coin of the realm in girl-world. Women use attention as a form of currency with other women, which in turn establishes peer status among women’s social groupings:

The capacity to attract and hold attention denotes social rank within the peer clutch. The more attractive the girl, the more popular she becomes and the more influence she wields. This isn’t to say that any particular female is cognizant of this. However, when ostracized from the collective, this capacity for attracting attention in a high degree makes her despised. The attention can still be beneficial for affirmation (i.e. realized jealousy), it’s just that the intent that has changed.

Thus, women use attention not only for their own affirmation, individually and collectively, but also to do combat with each other. Far more damaging than physical fighting is the long term psychological impact of denying this reinforcement, or better still, delegitimizing or disqualifying a girl/woman’s capacity to attract this attention. Combine this with a woman’s natural, and innately higher agency to communicate both verbally and non-verbally (i.e covert communications) and you can see the potential this has in damaging a rival. This might explain a woman’s natural propensity to gossip. When a woman attacks the respectability and character of another (“she’s such a slut”), in essence, she is assaulting the woman’s agency for garnering attention by delegitimizing it.

The first misdirection in this thread is that attention only comes in one form that is ‘validating’ for women. It is a mistake to assume that male attention is all that contributes to women’s validation. My guess is that the original poster was male and trying to wrap his head around what form of attention ought to be validating from a male perspective. I say this because this mistake is also a common one amongst recovering Betas considering MGTOW. They often think their case is hopeless because women are so far removed from them due to all the “incredible amount of male attention” they receive online and in real life.

From this respect I can understand the OP’s point. Attention and ‘offers’ of sex – tacit or direct – from random strange males is not validating in most cases. With the proper incentive, male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. From the perspective of male attention, the (I think accurate) presumption is that unless a man is perceived as Hypergamously optimal his attention is worthless in ‘validating’ a woman’s ego.

The term “validation” is easy to mold to whatever definition a man or woman might find convenient with regard to affirming one’s ego. In a Red Pill aware sense this validation needs to translate into some sort of reinforcing of a person’s self-perception of their sexual market value (SMV). On the ‘Man Up’ side of things the perception is one that men ought to find some esoteric source of inner strength and purpose to find ‘validation’ for their egos, while avoiding the idea that how many women he sleeps with or the ‘quality’ of the woman he’s banging might contribute to ‘validation’.

It’s funny how Blue Pill (and a few Red Pill) critics will foster the idea that the only reason men learn Game is because they’re “validation seeking“, but yet they resist the idea that women’s egos would be similarly validated by the “incredible amount of male attention” they believe even the most mundane of women is capable of generating.

However, the OP is asking the wrong question. Women’s egos are not inflated by the value of men’s attention, but rather the perception of an unending abundance of prospective men. An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. A lot gets made about the influence of “thirsty” guys on women, but the only value they represent is a Buffer against women ever having any personal insight about their ego valuation. Thirsty guys only serve to convince a girl she has options and therefore leisure to demand a better-than-merited Hypergamous option (i.e. apex fallacy Alphas).

Feeding the Beast

Recently Petapixel had a not-so-funny photo exposé of the dutiful Betas behind the ego-validating shots of girls on Instagram. The complicity of the average Beta male in the feeding of the female ego is never to be underestimated. Not the least of which because they are unaware of their active participation in creating a generation of woman who will have nothing to do with him while she enjoys her peak SMV years, but also to complain about his inadequacies of meeting the requirements her ego demands of men when she finds it necessary to lock down a ‘marriageable’ man. He is the architect of his own failings, but it seemed like she’d like him better if he took the Instagram shots of her at the time – the ones she would use to advertise her SMV to the Alphas who she knew were the only men worth taking a picture for.

At no other time in the history of humanity has it been easier for a woman to validate her ego or (falsely) evaluate her SMV. But that validation isn’t based on quality, but rather perceived quantity. It’s not just male attention that contributes to this. A constant chorus of ‘go grrrl’ supporters, endless Fempowerment memes and special social dispensations since before a girl enters preschool make up a far greater influences for ego-inflation than male attention. If anything girls are taught from a very early age not to value male attention (in abundance or lack) as a source of validation or confidence. This returns us to the nebulous ‘inner strength and purpose’ meme, albeit with the Strong Independent Woman® branding.

In contemporary society women’s attention and indignation needs are as ubiquitously satisfied as men’s need for sexual release (i.e. internet porn) is . This, of course, leads the larger whole of women to perceive their social and SMV status to be far greater than it actually is – and when that inflated SMV is challenged by the real world there are countless social conventions already established to insulate women and simultaneously convince men that women’s perceived status should be the fantasy they believe it is.

It’s important to keep this in mind because men’s adaptive sexual strategies key on women’s self-impressions of their SMV (and often personal worth). This then forms a cycle wherein men’s attentions for women’s inflated sense of self-worth become the benchmark for future validation of it.

Hypergamy predisposes women to evaluate male attention on various levels. The attention of random strangers offering sex to her (even if this is her imagined state) is still attention, and while not as validating as the genuine sexual interests of a guy she perceives as Alpha, it’s still contributing to her overall sense of self. The quantity of attention skews the perception of her own desirability. Women rarely complain about the attentions of ‘friend zoned’ Beta orbiters – even when they know these men are playing what they think is a worthwhile ‘long game’. What women bemoan is a lack of Alpha, Hypergamously acceptable, men’s attentions. What we hear are complaints of quality, not quantity.

Why is it that women are distressed over a deficit of “marriageable” men?

Have a read of this Brookings Institute study

This data is nothing new. Compare this to Newsweek’s 1986 survey of women’s “chances” of marrying a suitable man.

As I’ve stated many times over, Hypergamy is founded on an evolved, biological-level doubt. Doubt that a woman will ever consolidate on an optimized (better-than-SMV-merited) attachment with a Hypergamously ideal male. Doubt that the male she consolidated on is in fact the ‘best she could do’.

The primary reason the anxiety of finding a ‘marriageable man’ is persistent in women is because they believe that their due is to marry a man of “equitable” value to what they perceive themselves to be. That self-perception of value is the result of a woman’s conditioned beliefs over the course of her lifetime. The popular response to this is that women have “made themselves better than ever and it’s listless men who aren’t keeping pace” in respect to education, career advancement, etc. The evaluation of self-worth for women (at least in the sense popularized by the Feminine Imperative) is ostensibly meant to be founded on criteria for attraction which has conventionally been a standard for male to female attraction. But notice that it is once again men who must shoulder a greater burden of performance to even be considered “equitable” in self-worth to make him ‘marriageable’ for women.

The truth is that Hypergamy always seeks a better-than-deserved arrangement when it comes to the men women want to breed with and share parental investment with. The anxiety is one born of women’s doubt in their capacity to optimize Hypergamy as contrasted to what their socially-inflated egos lead them to believe they’re entitled to with men. As women’s egos and self-aggrandizement expand, so too does the expectation of entitlement to an even more aggrandized male expand. The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.

Again, as a solution, we have a plea from the Blue Pill world for men to Man Up and accommodate this exaggeration. Women’s ego-aggrandizement is nothing that can’t be solved by Blue Pill men’s more invested efforts in appeasing it. Almost 7 years ago Roosh wrote an essay on what he expected from women (and it’s Game implications) in the future. It turned out to be quite prophetic, but in this essay he made this prediction:

Game Plus Fame Will Be More Important Than Anything

It doesn’t have to be national fame, but you must be known for something with a reputation that precedes you. You must have a YouTube channel with millions of views. You must be a proprietor of a hipster butcher shop. You must be a popular writer, artist, or musician. You must be nightclub promoter or DJ. You must be a competitive skateboarder. Your must be the notorious editor of a cupcake newsletter. In a culture where a million people are “famous,” you’ll have to work your ass off for scraps if you’re not. Nurture your own style and niche and then leverage that to get pussy. Game will always have its use, but game plus fame will be the qualities that tomorrow’s Casanova possess. Otherwise you’ll be approaching all day and night to fuck a 6 who stops calling you after a couple bangs. You must have the complete package to get the hottest girls, with game being only the first ability of a multi-level game warrior. Guys without game will simply not get laid, not even with ugly girls.

While I would disagree with the assessment that ‘fame’ is a prerequisite element to get the lay today, I do agree with the idea that the social proof that comes with genuine ‘fame’ status is now a vital part of what makes for male attention that women perceive as validating of their egos. As Roosh implies here, that fame need not be anything more than the contextual variety, and I’d also add that the perception of fame, or even the perception of a potential for fame, is now a required element for a man women would consider ‘marriageable’.

From an Alpha Fucks, short-term, ovulatory phase Hypergamy perspective, a man can get by on Game, looks, confidence, etc., but for anything more than this men are in a competition. This is not a competition with other men per se, but with the expected entitlements women’s egos and an entire feminine social order has convinced them is men’s duty to embody for them.

In our brave new world of instant global communication, social media and the ego aggrandizing influence it has on women is exactly what anyone should expect it would be. When we look at the progress of the social and legislative repercussions that the influence of unfettered Hypergamy has had on our social order should we really be surprised that women would use social media as a vehicle for expressing and advancing their sexual strategy?

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@AR – yeah that was my point, or so I thought

snark fail

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Anonymous Reader This: 90% of a woman’s emotional problems stem from feeling unloved. So don’t stand back and analyze her, like a doctor diagnosing a patient, or like a therapist questioning a client. Give her your love—the same love that is motivating your questioning—immediately and unmistakably. Is not related to this: A relation has a wife and children. He’s really tired of the fact that all she wants to talk about is (a) the kids and (b) how much she doesn’t like her job. He tried one of those weekend getaway things, and all she would talk about is the… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

but she knew what she did Did she? Could she? Dogs are all about empirical truth and facts… Cats are not encumbered with this concern. The emotion in the moment is what is true to her… what she does may empirically be at odds with what her feelz told her… Try getting her to confess to killing him and admitting fault… there is the rub. If you know lots of criminals you know they never did nothing… most of them “caught” a case… like the flu. The same firmware of emotional truth allows her to be swept up in the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

The feminine view of Clouds: Bows and flows of angel hair and ice cream castles in the air And feather canyons everywhere, I’ve looked at clouds that way But now they only block the sun they rain and snow on everyone So many things I would have done, but clouds got in my way I’ve looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down and still somehow It’s cloud’s illusions I recall I really don’t know clouds at all Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels the dizzy dancing way you feel As every fairy tale comes real, I’ve… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

but she knew what she did Sentient Did she? Could she? Pretty sure she did, and pretty sure she could. I don’t know if her defense tried an insanity plea or not, but she did go to prison for murder. I don’t second guess juries, but if you want to, go ahead. Dogs are all about empirical truth and facts… Cats are not encumbered with this concern. The law is concerned about empirical truth and facts. The emotion in the moment is what is true to her… what she does may empirically be at odds with what her feelz told… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

dr. zipper
@AR – yeah that was my point, or so I thought

I just had a moment of high density, very high density. Call it ‘granite head’.

rugby11
5 years ago
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@ Not Born This Morning

Excellent post about Facebook and Instagram and the culture in which they exist.

Note that when social media celebrities tried to cash in on their fame through advertising their subscribers would ad block it. The content wasn’t worth the hassle of letting a 30 second ad, run.

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

We talk about attention women receive. But some would argue, what attention?

http://edumckaytion.com/blog/men-notice-women-anymore/

This article rings true, as it’s an observation of mine and others as well. Don’t let the fact the author of the piece (Scott McKay) is an unashamed white knight, (as seen in the comment section) put you off the content.
Online women get as much validation as they could possibly want. But away from the computer it’s not quite so easy.

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Oldest lie of humanity: “I’m pregnant, it’s yours”. Yeah, I know, “feelz”. Genetic testing has no feels…”

I don’t know. Everyone I know in life who lied about that picked the guy with the most money.
Doesn’t smack of “feelz” to me. More like a cold calculation.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Re: Augustus – It’s official, he’s Larping. His rage and comments are a sign of his existential angst. @Augustus – And oh yeah, Augustus, you arrogant fool, I didn’t read all your comments so I didn’t notice you announced you are a mess. Even more reason to shut the fuck up and listen, punk. You think you are the only one with issues? I suffer from some very severe issues, so get in line. But I’m always willing to start over. If you wish to stop being such a cunt and engage in a thoughtful way here, many of us… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

Lesson 1: Read Rollos book or for free, go up top the Best of Rational Male, hit the pulldown and read year 1 and 2. There is no way for you to get this other than diving in deeply.

Repeat as necessary… some of this stuff takes a while to sink in

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

off-topic – am reading Franco’s Manual of Seduction (2004).. It seems to be a wonderful mix of RP truths along with pickup. I was expecting something like Mystery Method but so far it seems so much deeper.

I’m assuming “2004” in the title signifies the publishing date. This seems awfully early for such RP truths. What was the thinking back then? Was this thinking part of the manosphere back then or was it the start of something?

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SJF – That Deida stuff you shared on how we seek release via violence or philosophy or orgasm is powerful. I’m ready to read Deida now, and really appreciate the insights. One point came up for me that is that my “true” self (whatever that means) is not well formed. Due the abuse and losses I suffered so young, there is no healthy, calm place to revert to. When I’m released into the moment, my natural impulses are not good or warm or healthy. 15 years of all kinds of therapy has helped me, but still, at base, when it’s… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

Took a look at the Field Reports section – I don’t really read it much anymore since it follows the main comment format and is mostly unreadable and unstructured. This is one area that would benefit from a nested comment structure. Wonder if this can be done without affecting the linear comments of the main articles. There must be a WP plugin for that.

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

This period of hyper feminism and the feminine supremacy is in decline. Really, it’s no different to the roaring 20’s almost a century earlier. What followed then was the great depression and later, World War 2. The people of the 20’s were forced to adapt. Gone was the high life and the idyllic notions of limitless prosperity. In it’s place, crippling poverty and rations. A doctrine like feminism requires it adherents, accept certain tenets and demonstrate their understanding. One such idea was a man putting his arm around a woman’s shoulder. This was seen as him claiming her as his… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Ya gotta read this. WNBA star who isn’t a lesbian goes public on the hateful, vicious lesbian culture that dominated the WNBA. She couldn’t take it anymore and terminated her career as a result even though she was good.
http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/

Can you imagine if a gay man went through this in the NBA? The outcry and SJW hysteria? But you’ll hear nothing on this.

More milestones on the road of our decline.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ScribblerG “One point came up for me that is that my “true” self (whatever that means) is not well formed. Due the abuse and losses I suffered so young, there is no healthy, calm place to revert to. When I’m released into the moment, my natural impulses are not good or warm or healthy. 15 years of all kinds of therapy has helped me, but still, at base, when it’s all stripped away” Good insight into the fact that your true self was indeed troubled. But I still see hope and faith in you because of the way you have… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@DisgruntledEarthling Yes Franco’s book is much different than the rest. Franco was a (super) Natural player and had pickup skills from having had a lot of good experience with a lot of women in his life. He was a lover of women. And he was older and wiser. Not like the spergy wrecks that Tyler and Julien were when they started out and “Learned” Game. And he was free form more so that the formulaic Mystery. Also, later he collaborated heavily with Joseph South and David Clare to write Practical Female Psychology. That book was heavily researched by psychology books,… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

Also, later he collaborated heavily with Joseph South and David Clare to write Practical Female Psychology.

That’s next on my list.
It looks like Mystery built on Franco’s work and formalized it quite a bit, which is good for men requiring such structure. Franco’s writing is a bit rambling and ‘stiff’ but that probably comes from his Italian background.

One main difference between Franco and Mystery are the RP bombs Franco keeps dropping. We know Mystery’s issues with not being RP so it looks like Franco was much more ‘sophisticated’ in RP though at the time.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Scrib I feel like a scared kid who’s trying to avoid the next beating from his Dad Re: HB9 – Looks like that is over. In part because I can’t access a true loving self, and cannot feel emotionally safe with women at all. Can’t say I’ve had exactly your experiences but I share some of them – that deeply ingrained feeling of your heart tightening up when experiencing certain social situations. Call it fear or flight instinct, don’t really know what it is. Just because of some asshole parent… Things to get over I guess. At 58, I’m just… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Joseph W. South used to collaborate on mASF forums with Mystery, Tyler and advanced some of the techniques to include LTR’s in addition to “simple” pickup artistry. Here’s a good podcast by Joseph W. South: https://soundcloud.com/girlschase/girls-chase-podcast-episode-4-with-joseph-w-south Joseph W. South discusses how he got his start, plus why any power over a woman is fleeting, what “sensitive man” really means, and plenty more. Selected topics of conversation… • Madonna/whore and how “Good girls don’t do that stuff” • How Joseph stopped treating women platonically • The female internal battle between lover vs. provider • Why do women manipulate men… and how… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Disgruntled – Ya, I had no idea how to do the Beta bit safely. Like whenever I was providing comfort it felt like BluePillness was overtaking my psyche. But there is another level. I got so deep into her psyche with game that she had very serious and deep feelings for me that she didn’t understand and couldn’t rationalize. Game can be dangerous this way, in the sense that getting a woman panting for you has emotional consequences for them. Put simply, I seduced her to make her love me, as Mystery would do, but then treated her like a… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@AR A relation has a wife and children. He’s really tired of the fact that all she wants to talk about is (a) the kids and (b) how much she doesn’t like her job. He tried one of those weekend getaway things, and all she would talk about is the kids. “She wasn’t like this before the kids”, he sez. A few years ago I would have been stupid and Blue Pill & gone on about different approaches to get her out of Mom mode, etc. talk about kids/complain about her job = shit tests = ping for alpha… have… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

comment image

SJF gets it… Which cloud is real? For how long? You sure? Which is true???

Does that matter? To who?

Lolz.

They straight up told you about this in 1967… not hidden.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Scribbs

all in all a good story and experience.

And why not, I was using game to manipulate her.

And you too… it’s still a phase. Another step towards true authenticity – to self. The Platinum Rule journey doesn’t end…

Leiff
Leiff
5 years ago

@scribblerg re: WNBA

I tried to watch some girls college basketball before the men’s game came on a couple of weeks ago. I lasted a couple of minutes before I just turned it off, thinking to myself, “who wants to watch all these lesbians chase each other up and down the court?”. Maybe if you’re a parent?

ESPN keeps trumpeting the UConn women’s team has set some winning streak record. Trying their hardest to get people to care. No one does though.

Fred Flange, in livid stereo
Fred Flange, in livid stereo
5 years ago

@Ollie The McKay article is interesting even if written from a blue-pill dating coach POV. The one paragraph I do co-sign is this, it’s a gong I’ve been banging a year or so now: 1) Fear Of Seeming Predatory The subtle (or at times blatant) message presented to men in the 21st century is that any display of sexual interest in a woman is considered “sexual harassment”. We’ve all been to a corporate seminar that warned us as such. The result is that we as men have been successfully conditioned to leave women the hell alone. In other words, it’s… Read more »

corypheus
corypheus
5 years ago

This reminds me of one of the fundamental differences between men and women:

comment image

People with huge egos make a virture out of necessity. People without make a virture of accomplishment.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

scribblerg My internal consciousness is curled into a feral crouch, ready to fight or flee. I’ve adapted to learn to calm myself and do so all the time, but I have no “happy place” to revert to. It’s quite sad actually. I only recently got this. When I let everything go and just am “me”, I want to hide… That’s a lot like Lost Patrol wanting to just “drop his pack”, in a way. Perfectly understandable and reasonable in your situation. It is very good that you see this. What should you do now with your knowledge? Here’s a suggestion,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

anon
I don’t know. Everyone I know in life who lied about that picked the guy with the most money.

I’m not surprised you get the joke, congrats. Some women in my family still remember overhearing high school conversations where Girl A and Girl B would be comparing their cycle to figure out how to get pregnant the senior year spring semester early enough to guarantee a June shotgun wedding, but late enough to not show through the wedding dress.

But they probably imagined that as well, because Deida says different…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

habd
talk about kids/complain about her job = shit tests = ping for alpha…

have you pointed out how HE could actually LEAD the convo somewhere else?… instead of just being reactive (= complaining… = beta) to what she does/says?…

Did you miss the next two lines of text? Here they are again:

Now I’ll just echo EhIntellect with some Sentient and Blaximus on the side. Plus some HABD about how she’s pinging for Alpha all the time…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Sentien SJF gets it… Which cloud is real? For how long? You sure? Which is true??? Nice bit of New Agey craptalk. Reality isn’t changed by that, though. In my own life I have been lied to by women. Women subordinates, women supervisors, women co-workers, women relations, and so forth. So now you are trying to tell me “AR, don’t believe your own eyes, ignore reality, just believe me because Deida says so”; you’re like a gaslighting feminst, really. On other sites where churchgoing men talk, the issue is “agency”, but it is the same thing. I don’t think you… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Fred Flange his own self I like the timely reminder: it’s not just a product of campus freshman lectures, it’s corporate policy too, Whatever the policy college freshPERSONS are exposed to will become corporate policy in 5 to 10 years, because of normalization. The ongoing criminalization of “being male” will continue until either some number of men make it stop, or most men (about 80%?) are pushed into a corner with no avenue of escape. The latter option won’t be good for anyone. Unfortunately I think it’s the most likely, because we have not yet reached Peak Feminism, believe it… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Lost Patrol Is there no option to decide you’ve got things like you want them, and to declare you have performed as much as you’re willing to perform? ” I can’t even add much of anything to Blaximus’s reply, but here’s one way to visualize your question. Analogy Suppose you have a weight training goal – a deadlift weight, bench press weight, military press, whatever. You reach that goal. Now what? Can we just say “Whoa, I can bench my own body weight, I’m strong enough, now I can quit lifting“? Nope. Because we all know that if you stop… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

AR Settle down cranky pants.. you keep trying to put dog shaped pegs into cat shaped holes… that will make one cranky… In my own life I have been lied to by women. Women subordinates, women supervisors, women co-workers, women relations, and so forth. So do any of these women believe they did? Or was it true to them when they said it? And what would they say today about it, one wonders? Did they admit their fault? Take responsibility? Make amends? Which is true – “I love you” or “I love you but i’m not in love with you… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ Fred Flange “Businesses don’t like HR problems/lawsuits/bad press caused by interoffice relations, or attempts thereat. Many companies have strict no-dating-the-colleague policies. Of necessity the command to keep your eyes down would seep into your behavior outside the job site, office or classroom. I would be guilty of this.” From the OP: “A constant chorus of ‘go grrrl’ supporters, endless Fempowerment memes and special social dispensations since before a girl enters preschool make up a far greater influences for ego-inflation than male attention. If anything girls are taught from a very early age not to value male attention (in abundance… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Anonymous – Ah, this is why you talk down to me – you have no idea who I am or what I’ve done and experienced. I’ve meditated until I disappeared. I had a profound Buddhist meditation practice for years and taught others mindfulness. I had the experience all buddhists seek and guess what? It’s not the answer either. I’ve done 15 years of varied therapy from group to energy healing to psychodrama to inpatient co-dependency treatment. Have been on 10 different meds and seen more than a dozen psychological pros. I’ve emptied and devoured the entire self-help sections of bookstores.… Read more »

tsotha
tsotha
5 years ago

I thought the question of whether females egos are overblown was settled with the studies that found women rate 80% of men “below average”.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@scribb @augustus Man wtf is up with you? Nice over the top diatribe, followed by self-pity mea culpa, all directly following your accusing someone else of having issues. “choking on the Red Pill. And we know why – you can’t face your own culpability in the matter.”.. hardest part blah blah This is horseshit.. if anything the RP is the great reliever of self-loathing. RP unveils universal truths that are a shortcut to understanding how you arrived at your sorry state. It transforms what feels like a severe problem one must face in isolation into a common learning experience. It… Read more »

Augustus West
Augustus West
5 years ago

Scribbles says- ” I suffer from some very severe issues”. Yeah, I can tell you do.

Scribbles says ” please get that your commentary is meaningless to me personally”. Sure, and that’s why you feel compelled to reply to it.

Scribbles says ” I’ve given you the first step in perhaps ridding yourself of your agony”.
And you call me arrogant? Gee thanks coach, now go back to your fetal position.

I realize your conceit will make this difficult, but fuck off and ignore me.

The Surgeon
The Surgeon
5 years ago

Another excellent and critical post in the current times of endless validation through technology and how it affects social interactions, Rollo. I think this leads into a larger topic which I’m not sure whether you’ve covered before (correct me if I’m wrong). Attention, narcissism and solipsism are ingrained and essential to women but are only one part of their make up. (By this I mean, all women want attention, they get their steady stream of it through tech, social media etc. Instagram allows them to fuel their narcissistic tendencies and believe they are the stars of their own movies. This… Read more »

thedeti
thedeti
5 years ago

One of the things I like about being a part of communities like this is that we can all admit we don’t have it all together. If we were all winning at life, we would not have needed the manosphere.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Yeah, well this too shall pass. “It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence, to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words: “And this, too, shall pass away.” How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!“ It’s pretty difficult with Scribbler, for any of us to decide how to respond to his comments: with anger, sympathy or empathy. A couple years ago I took the empathy route back… Read more »

Augustus West
Augustus West
5 years ago

sjf- “And the anger he shows to Augustus the douche (men are trying to have a conversation here and Augustus is just lobbing M-80’s into the campfire, not contributing and not engaging in advancing the dialogue).”

Is that the end of your sentence?

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Tuff – And I’m the one who’s out of line? Talk about someone who needs to calm down and get off his high horse. I was responding to SJF and Anonymous, not you. You don’t like it, cool, have a great day. And Augustus is stuck in a bad, angry place. I have no idea what’s going on with you, but if ya wanna have a conversation, cool. If ya wanna be an asshole, I’m pretty sure you are the only one you are making miserable. Get this. When someone pisses you off so much they are renting space in… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Auggie – Aw, you don’t like me? Gosh, it’s so terrible for me, I can’t stand it. You claim to be troubled and have challenges, why don’t you talk about yourself with the same honesty I do? Happy to help. As for you using my mental illness against me, lol, you must think nobody has ever tried that before. You probably have worse pathology than me, given how you present yourself, but are just in denial. Creepy vibe emerging here. Perhaps if Tuff and Auggie were to share a vid of their homosexual trysts it would break up the darkness…… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

It’s imperative that each man tries to unearth his true self, even if you don’t particularly like that which you may find. Manosphere aside, this is a task best done in private because most men will find a few different levels and outsiders may only serve to hinder progress. A huge part of ” inner strength ” comes from the knowledge of who you truly are at your core. It should not be disturbing, because whatever you find inside can be mastered. Timeframes can and will vary though. I have nothing against therapy or therapists, but a word of caution… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Is that the end of your sentence?

I forgot to capitalize Douche.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SJF – Uhh, don’t need the help but appreciate the insights. And while i’ve struggled with my issues, I’ve managed to live a life most men only can dream of having. I’ve sailed the oceans, climbed high mountains, made millions, fucked hundreds of women, have many friends, have traveled the world, worked at the highest levels of finance and tech. Also wrote two books, am a gigging singer/songwriter and much more. Even now, after having essentially a breakdown, I live lakeside in an upscale community, have my own business and work from home most of the time. I have a… Read more »

Augustus West
Augustus West
5 years ago

sjf- “I forgot to capitalize Douche”.

I’m not an English major, but something seems wrong about that structure.

Scribbles- “… I am the man… look at me everybody…. Augustus the
asshole got exactly what he was looking for..”. Oh really..

Ha, I knew you were too insecure to leave me alone.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SuperBlax – Well said. Therapy and other treatments have their place for people who are actually mentally ill. Sadly, many people in therapy are dealing with episodic anxiety or depression, and don’t need it. But no matter the path, for me the Red Pill has always been about self-discovery most of all. The BP seriously contributed to my anxiety and existential issues, so just seeing through all of that has helped a lot. What I found isn’t scary or troubling for me. It just is. Finally, I can just be with it. And me. And anyone else now, for that… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Auggies – Just telling the whole story. How about you, what’s your story? Too scared to be honest with us about what’s eating you?

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@The Surgeon

Male narcissism–self-confidence, arrogance, and self reliance is nothing like female narcissism–entitlement, vanity, and self-absorption.

Male narcissism was invented so that feministas could say that men were also narcissistic.

No feminine Dark Triad.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

I do find this topic of innate female dishonesty quite interesting. I find myself torn between Sentient and Anonymous on this issue. On the one hand, I observe solipsism and the attendant lying all the time. Had an interaction with a plate candidate the other day, that didn’t go well, lol. She’s asked me to run her around a bit when I came over and 15 mins turned into 2 hours, and when I complained, she was ridiculous, telling me that “the facts are that I told you I had to go drop this off at my mothers and my… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Gamer – Damn.
“Male narcissism–self-confidence, arrogance, and self reliance is nothing like female narcissism–entitlement, vanity, and self-absorption.”

That is a nuclear truth bomb.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“@tsotha, good point” LOL. Because, so true. Same as it ever was on TRM. The 80% Pareto Principle because of the Pareto distribution. That’s just simple Hypergamy and AF/BB. The driving force of women’s ego inflation. Abetted by the distancing of social interactions by social technology and media. From an Alpha Fucks, short-term, ovulatory phase Hypergamy perspective, a man can get by on Game, looks, confidence, etc., but for anything more than this men are in a competition. This is not a competition with other men per se, but with the expected entitlements women’s egos and an entire feminine social… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Male narcissism was invented so that feministas could say that men were also narcissistic.”

Yes indeed.
The word narcissism comes from Narcissa (the gal who fell in love with her own reflection), sister of Narcissi (the entitled, self absorbed one).

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

“Sometimes a guy just has to acquiesce to the burden of performance.” I’m starting to agree. hypergamy is a tough one. even the most ruthless, dark triad skittles man alpha fucks guy is still just playing into its hands. by plowing through shit tests he’s passing them. by fucking a girl’s brains out and stealing the cash from her purse he’s giving her what she wants. by being the most selfish asshole in the world he’s giving her tingles. I thought the only way to beat it was to simply ignore it take what you want. but even this doesn’t… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@scribblerg February 22, 2017 at 3:59 pm “I also think that women use communication differently. They are seeking different outcomes and payoffs than we are, so it’s not terribly useful to boil it down to honesty or the lack of it. Come on man. Damn, right now you are ready to read ‘The Way of the Superior Man’. The only reason you haven’t read it before is because of fact “That you can’t handle the truth!” was going on in your psyche before. You can easily handle it now. And I have a Spoiler Alert: It is super easy to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Fleezer, who I hope to model my son after. He’s half begun. (no mocking involved, I’m serious) Time will tell if well begun. nature/dna has taken its sweet time and “thought” of everything. there is no way to not succumb to hypergamy and the burden of performance because even when we are doing nothing but following our most base urges, we are still doing something in service of the egg. with hypergamy, taking is still giving. so it seems the only way to win is not to play. but you can’t win if you don’t play. Pretty much the thesis… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I mangled “Well begun is half done”.

Um, Sorry. It’s a saying about whitetail deer habitat and good hunting food plots.

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

so “topping from the bottom” is real? the submissive one is actually in control? so from puberty to menopause women control the frame, no matter what we tell ourselves? so every trait we have is because the egg bearing women want us to have it? fuck that. I could ball gag and tie her up and never let her loose. less than a week without water and she’s done. that is not control. men could decide tomorrow to stop fucking women and the human race would end. if women decided to stop fucking men, men could still rape them and… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Fleezer

You are Captain Obvious.

Thanks for that.

Total agreement here.

You want to buy some Capital letters at the start of sentences?

“Weakness is not strength. submission is not domination.”

Fuck yes to that. I love the conciseness.

BreakinnBenjaminn
BreakinnBenjaminn
5 years ago

@scrib Have you ever read Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome by James Wilson? I know this out of left field but please don’t write adrenal fatigue off as some voodoo nonsense because you’ve never been diagnosed by a doctor. Doctors typically can’t/don’t dignose it because symptoms are very individualized and it cannot be fixed with a prescription. To be clear, I’m not saying that adrenal fatigue is the cause of all your neurological problems, but I will say it has definitely effected you in the past and may still be lingering. I hope this comment is completely useless… Read more »

Augustus West
Augustus West
5 years ago

Scrubs- “Auggies – Just telling the whole story. How about you, what’s your story? Too scared to be honest with us about what’s eating you?”

Too scared? No. Too busy and uninterested to write a book, yes.
I wish I never read anything about your history. Vomit. The funniest thing I’ve heard all day is that anyone pays you for advice. Damn, that’s messed up, or a lie.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@AR

nope… I didn’t understand that you actually told him that stuff…

Mea culpa…

good luck!

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Hey scribbs & anon Thanks for the attaboy. anon, you can bring pizza and scribbs, you can bring beer to the next meeting of the Mile High Gamer Fan Club. I’m working on delegating so that I won’t be such a self-reliant narcissistic asshole. Just an ordinary narcissistic asshole. Fuck, last night I was out with a buddy and a couple of broads and we were playing pitch the metal rings. I stood over the target box and dared them to aim at my junk. It was a very popular thing with the broads. Balls of steel. Did I let… Read more »

The Surgeon
The Surgeon
5 years ago

@theasdgamer I disagree. Women have objectives and aims in the sexual market. Their aim being to secure the highest value man and drain him of his high quality sperm, then use his resources to raise the resultant child. Now dark triad traits help men to mate with women by projection of high value traits and beating off competition. (Narcissism- looking and acting like you are “the shit”. Machiavellianism- beating out the other competitors by using seduction tactics other men have no access to. Psychopathy- having no remorse in doing the above two actions. High value men have all these traits… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ the surgeon “I think men get duped more often than women do.” Men play by the old set of books, anabolic FI’d hypergamy clears the female sexual field of limitations. IMO women aren’t duping men, men are curbing their potential, willfully blind. It’s not personal, generally, how women treat men, it just is. Men use “I was tricked!” as a buffer. “she was complete ruthlessness personified” I believe you, though when women change how you describe, there’s more to it than her being furtive, Machiavellian. Women respond to the actions of men, are emotional and will follow their emotions,… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@The Surgeon You’re new to the manosphere, aren’t you? Here’s one tell: Women being pumped and dumped by expert players Only the highest value men (top rock stars, sports figures, & other cultural icons) deliberately pump and dump women because they have to put zero resources into getting laid by beautiful women. PUAs aim to spin plates. PUAs have to spend time and money (as little of either as possible, but still some) to get laid. You don’t actually see PUAs operate, do you? You’re totally keyboard jockeying. You’re busted, lol. (Narcissism- looking and acting like you are “the shit”.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

I’m not fully convinced that women en masse try to acquire ” the highest quality sperm “. How does the average guy think that they make this determination? What exactly iis ” high quality ” in this sense? Go for walks out and about for a few months and observe couples with kids in tow. Are all beta buck guys high quality? Maybe I need a fuller description of this high quality sperm that’s so often spoken of. We’re talking about her perception. A perception that can be massively manipulated and gamed. No doubt there are some females that actually… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

comment image

There is not beak of the finch in the beak of the finch.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Which is real, the pictures of beans, or the picture of a finch?

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Which is real, the pictures of beans, or the picture of a finch? LOL. Nice.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“Finally, she coldly breaks it off when she can’t fool herself any more.”

@ The Surgeon

“but when it ended she was complete ruthlessness personified. Ice cold.”

Again: Is there anything you might have done or not done to engender such a change in her?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@ The Surgeon “but when it ended she was complete ruthlessness personified. Ice cold.” It’s important to realize she went cold well before she showed it too you. In my experience it was 3 months, and I could distinctly identify a couple incidents from that time frame that I believe caused her to check out. The next 3 months was a damage control act to buy herself time.. So understand she’s been chilling for a while, and this is why she serves it to you ice cold. It’s funny, because they go through that routine presumably to make a graceful… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“I’m not fully convinced that women en masse try to acquire ” the highest quality sperm ”

LOL Have y’all been to the L&D ward lately? Ya ain’t gotta be pretty to get pregnant…or impregnate.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

“When the lines of communication are broken between you and your wife, you aren’t going to get a message that the lines of communication are broken. That’s what the lines of communication being broken means. When she checks out of the marriage, she doesn’t tell you because she checked out of the marriage. That’s what being checked out of the marriage means.”

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@scrib that wasn’t a real threat.. I was exemplifying how stupid it sounds to talk tough on the net.. Anyway.. no hard feelings, but lay off the new guys a little.. I didn’t even read Augustus’ posts, but him being in a bad situ brought him here same as you and me, so cut him some slack.

The Surgeon
The Surgeon
5 years ago

@EhIntellect and @tufflove I didn’t cause a change in my ex. She already had that streak of ruthlessness so I expected it when it happened. I saw the behaviour change 6 months before the break up (and was already spinning plates prior to that anyway). Due to work logistics (and reputation) my options were to dump her and be the enemy, or drive the relationship into the ground and wait for her to do it. I initially chose the former and took the hit. She was the sweetest most loving woman after that. We hooked up for a further 6… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

There are definitely dark triad women, and not only the plain and/or ugly ones. Hypothetical dark triad female example: Female dates/marries/ and/or for whatever reason stalks a man. He does something to displease her (or rejects her advances) and she proceeds to ruin his life by injuring herself and claiming he did it. Claiming he injured his children so the child protective service become involved, framing him for…well, ect. Happens frequently. Dark triad characteristics in females are apparent with other women too. At an early age that type of person will work to make another female a social pariah, usually… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago
anon
anon
5 years ago

Hand that Rocks the Cradle, Disclosure, Gone Girl, Fatal Attraction are all examples of female dark triad antagonists.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Bear in mind that when talking about the Dark Triad we are talking about terms as defined by psychologists, not as they are understood colloquially.

The narcissist, for instance, is generally understood to be a weak ego, not a strong one, which therefore must get its sense of self from its reflection, i.e. the reaction of others.

Here is a take on the female Dark Triad and psychopath (a diagnosis which may be back in the next edition of the DSM) “Lucifer’s Daughter.” Make of it what you will:

https://illimitablemen.com/2014/02/17/lucifers-daughter/

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“ruthlessness” “Machiavellian” “lying cheating hypergamously sluts” IDK, man. These are dog terms, Guys talk this way, it’s not what women are. This isn’t us vs. them. Women just don’t think in such calculating manners. “Lying, cheating?” It’s not cheating when lying and cheating are in the rules book…the book guys don’t read. They have a m.o. but different as you’d describe. Emotion-based. They see a high income guy, IDK a surgeon maybe, as worth the long term dating investment, looking for the payoff, the beta provider, then again it satisfies her emotional need for provisioning, security. A scenario would be… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“We are living in different times. The social conventions are different too.”

The tactics change with the times. The strategy is essentially timeless, having been formed ages ago. They are the genesis of mankind, not other way around.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“They are the genesis of mankind . . .”

Pronoun trouble. It isn’t THEY ARE the genesis of mankind. It’s IT IS the genesis of mankind. So shoot me now! Shoot me now!

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@Eh – you stole my “shifting sands of truth’ phrasing!! and I posted it to a comment defending you on this very post LOL

I’m flattered you read my posts, you dirty rat

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Dr. Zipper

Speaking of machiavellian:

Yeah, I stole your bit. I had something else written, but your phrasing was more poetic. I haven’t a original thought in years.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ anon re: Disclosure Near the book’s end, a dialogue oocurs between Tom Sanders and his elderly mentor. I remember only the jist: The mentor leads Tom down the logic trail why he’s in this predicament and Tom realizes that the almost-affair was something Tom actually initiated, by letting it happen. Tom knew she was aggressive, but did nothing to stop it. Tom knew sex with her was a bad idea, but Tom wanted the fight anyways. Tom wanted to dominate her rather than the other way around. I’ll check that book out again. IDK, it seems to me that… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

“The mentor leads Tom down the logic trail why he’s in this predicament and Tom realizes that the almost-affair was something Tom actually initiated, by letting it happen. Tom knew she was aggressive, but did nothing to stop it. Tom knew sex with her was a bad idea, but Tom wanted the fight anyways. Tom wanted to dominate her rather than the other way around. I’ll check that book out again. IDK, it seems to me that some guys find the challenge and victory of difficult relationships worthwhile. Some succeed, some don’t. Breaking a shrew woman’s frame can be satisfying… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“There is no breaking a dark triad . . . If you think women can’t be dark triad, you’ve probably never witnessed it in action.”

Their shrinks tend to suicide.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Surgeon

Back to the comment at issue.

Women being pumped and dumped by expert players don’t know about it until it’s too late.

You made it sound like this was the alpha game plan. Alphas plan to dump girls? I don’t think so. Sure, it happens if a girl gets to be too much trouble. But planning to dump girls? Naah. Certainly, never after one night unless the alphas were VERY drunk. (Excepting top tier alphas, of course)

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Yeah, I’ve lived a charmed life, all things given. I get that. I dated a female cop once, she was tracking my movements and did her due diligence, made sure I knew she knew my past, present. Late night calls, hangup, call again, hang up. Glad that’s over and I don’t lament the disaster that didn’t happen. IDK, the overwhelming women issues here have nothing to do with dark triad women, just women. Saying women are Machiavellian seems dramatic, shifts the blame onto the woman, buffering, IMO. Great conversation tho. Non sequitur: Much talk today re: 50 SOG, Magic Mike.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Sie auch.

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