Of Ego and Choice

ego

Last week I ran across a thread on the ‘Purple Pill Debate’ sub on Reddit that called into question the Red Pill idea that women’s egos have become overblown. This “debate” sub is essentially a forum dedicated to Blue Pill hacks expressing their dubious confusion about various topics discussed on the Red Pill sub so I wont grace the forum with a link here. That said, it is an interesting forum to peruse when looking for examples of how a lot of the fundamentals of Red Pill awareness are deliberately misconstrued. The Blue Pill mindset will make great efforts to insulate itself from unignorable Red Pill truths that threaten to break comforting ego-investments. Those efforts begin with a willful misunderstanding (and later denial) of Red Pill premises.

I’ve explored the topic of women’s ego inflation in various post on this blog, but truth be told I’ve had this more thorough examination sitting in my drafts folder for a while now. The idea that women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown is something I think the Red Pill community often takes for granted. It’s fairly easy to see both online and in real life. I resisted fleshing this post out for a while because it presents the risk of being perceived as some gratuitous attack on all-women-being-like-that in their ego aggrandizements, so I’ve been content to just allude to this phenomenon in my posts.

It’s easy to throw red meat to the manosphere in this respect since women’s inflated egos are something most factions of the ‘sphere almost unanimously agree on. And of course, simply doing so makes the man pointing it out, by default, a misogynist. Then, either the mud gets slung by indignant tumblrinasor his points are perfunctorily dismissed and the conversation ends.

The Purple Pill “Debate” thread was simple enough, but such misguidance needs to be:

A narrative that is constantly pushed is the notion that the female ego is inflated from a constant barrage of male attention, thus leading women to have an inflated sense of value.

Attention and offers of sex from random strange males is not validating in most cases. Male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. To put it into a more crude term “dick is cheap”. Being offered free sex from a man that is not attractive to you is the equivalent of being offered a free bag of feces. It is free and it still might have some value, but I am not going to take it.

The whole idea that any of this is extremely validating is farcical and incorrect.

This premise is misguided in two respects. The first is defining exactly what is contributing to women’s ego inflation. The second is how a woman is validated by the attention that contributes to it. I’ve written extensively on the psychological effects attention has on women. Attention is the coin of the realm in girl-world. Women use attention as a form of currency with other women, which in turn establishes peer status among women’s social groupings:

The capacity to attract and hold attention denotes social rank within the peer clutch. The more attractive the girl, the more popular she becomes and the more influence she wields. This isn’t to say that any particular female is cognizant of this. However, when ostracized from the collective, this capacity for attracting attention in a high degree makes her despised. The attention can still be beneficial for affirmation (i.e. realized jealousy), it’s just that the intent that has changed.

Thus, women use attention not only for their own affirmation, individually and collectively, but also to do combat with each other. Far more damaging than physical fighting is the long term psychological impact of denying this reinforcement, or better still, delegitimizing or disqualifying a girl/woman’s capacity to attract this attention. Combine this with a woman’s natural, and innately higher agency to communicate both verbally and non-verbally (i.e covert communications) and you can see the potential this has in damaging a rival. This might explain a woman’s natural propensity to gossip. When a woman attacks the respectability and character of another (“she’s such a slut”), in essence, she is assaulting the woman’s agency for garnering attention by delegitimizing it.

The first misdirection in this thread is that attention only comes in one form that is ‘validating’ for women. It is a mistake to assume that male attention is all that contributes to women’s validation. My guess is that the original poster was male and trying to wrap his head around what form of attention ought to be validating from a male perspective. I say this because this mistake is also a common one amongst recovering Betas considering MGTOW. They often think their case is hopeless because women are so far removed from them due to all the “incredible amount of male attention” they receive online and in real life.

From this respect I can understand the OP’s point. Attention and ‘offers’ of sex – tacit or direct – from random strange males is not validating in most cases. With the proper incentive, male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. From the perspective of male attention, the (I think accurate) presumption is that unless a man is perceived as Hypergamously optimal his attention is worthless in ‘validating’ a woman’s ego.

The term “validation” is easy to mold to whatever definition a man or woman might find convenient with regard to affirming one’s ego. In a Red Pill aware sense this validation needs to translate into some sort of reinforcing of a person’s self-perception of their sexual market value (SMV). On the ‘Man Up’ side of things the perception is one that men ought to find some esoteric source of inner strength and purpose to find ‘validation’ for their egos, while avoiding the idea that how many women he sleeps with or the ‘quality’ of the woman he’s banging might contribute to ‘validation’.

It’s funny how Blue Pill (and a few Red Pill) critics will foster the idea that the only reason men learn Game is because they’re “validation seeking“, but yet they resist the idea that women’s egos would be similarly validated by the “incredible amount of male attention” they believe even the most mundane of women is capable of generating.

However, the OP is asking the wrong question. Women’s egos are not inflated by the value of men’s attention, but rather the perception of an unending abundance of prospective men. An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. A lot gets made about the influence of “thirsty” guys on women, but the only value they represent is a Buffer against women ever having any personal insight about their ego valuation. Thirsty guys only serve to convince a girl she has options and therefore leisure to demand a better-than-merited Hypergamous option (i.e. apex fallacy Alphas).

Feeding the Beast

Recently Petapixel had a not-so-funny photo exposé of the dutiful Betas behind the ego-validating shots of girls on Instagram. The complicity of the average Beta male in the feeding of the female ego is never to be underestimated. Not the least of which because they are unaware of their active participation in creating a generation of woman who will have nothing to do with him while she enjoys her peak SMV years, but also to complain about his inadequacies of meeting the requirements her ego demands of men when she finds it necessary to lock down a ‘marriageable’ man. He is the architect of his own failings, but it seemed like she’d like him better if he took the Instagram shots of her at the time – the ones she would use to advertise her SMV to the Alphas who she knew were the only men worth taking a picture for.

At no other time in the history of humanity has it been easier for a woman to validate her ego or (falsely) evaluate her SMV. But that validation isn’t based on quality, but rather perceived quantity. It’s not just male attention that contributes to this. A constant chorus of ‘go grrrl’ supporters, endless Fempowerment memes and special social dispensations since before a girl enters preschool make up a far greater influences for ego-inflation than male attention. If anything girls are taught from a very early age not to value male attention (in abundance or lack) as a source of validation or confidence. This returns us to the nebulous ‘inner strength and purpose’ meme, albeit with the Strong Independent Woman® branding.

In contemporary society women’s attention and indignation needs are as ubiquitously satisfied as men’s need for sexual release (i.e. internet porn) is . This, of course, leads the larger whole of women to perceive their social and SMV status to be far greater than it actually is – and when that inflated SMV is challenged by the real world there are countless social conventions already established to insulate women and simultaneously convince men that women’s perceived status should be the fantasy they believe it is.

It’s important to keep this in mind because men’s adaptive sexual strategies key on women’s self-impressions of their SMV (and often personal worth). This then forms a cycle wherein men’s attentions for women’s inflated sense of self-worth become the benchmark for future validation of it.

Hypergamy predisposes women to evaluate male attention on various levels. The attention of random strangers offering sex to her (even if this is her imagined state) is still attention, and while not as validating as the genuine sexual interests of a guy she perceives as Alpha, it’s still contributing to her overall sense of self. The quantity of attention skews the perception of her own desirability. Women rarely complain about the attentions of ‘friend zoned’ Beta orbiters – even when they know these men are playing what they think is a worthwhile ‘long game’. What women bemoan is a lack of Alpha, Hypergamously acceptable, men’s attentions. What we hear are complaints of quality, not quantity.

Why is it that women are distressed over a deficit of “marriageable” men?

Have a read of this Brookings Institute study

This data is nothing new. Compare this to Newsweek’s 1986 survey of women’s “chances” of marrying a suitable man.

As I’ve stated many times over, Hypergamy is founded on an evolved, biological-level doubt. Doubt that a woman will ever consolidate on an optimized (better-than-SMV-merited) attachment with a Hypergamously ideal male. Doubt that the male she consolidated on is in fact the ‘best she could do’.

The primary reason the anxiety of finding a ‘marriageable man’ is persistent in women is because they believe that their due is to marry a man of “equitable” value to what they perceive themselves to be. That self-perception of value is the result of a woman’s conditioned beliefs over the course of her lifetime. The popular response to this is that women have “made themselves better than ever and it’s listless men who aren’t keeping pace” in respect to education, career advancement, etc. The evaluation of self-worth for women (at least in the sense popularized by the Feminine Imperative) is ostensibly meant to be founded on criteria for attraction which has conventionally been a standard for male to female attraction. But notice that it is once again men who must shoulder a greater burden of performance to even be considered “equitable” in self-worth to make him ‘marriageable’ for women.

The truth is that Hypergamy always seeks a better-than-deserved arrangement when it comes to the men women want to breed with and share parental investment with. The anxiety is one born of women’s doubt in their capacity to optimize Hypergamy as contrasted to what their socially-inflated egos lead them to believe they’re entitled to with men. As women’s egos and self-aggrandizement expand, so too does the expectation of entitlement to an even more aggrandized male expand. The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.

Again, as a solution, we have a plea from the Blue Pill world for men to Man Up and accommodate this exaggeration. Women’s ego-aggrandizement is nothing that can’t be solved by Blue Pill men’s more invested efforts in appeasing it. Almost 7 years ago Roosh wrote an essay on what he expected from women (and it’s Game implications) in the future. It turned out to be quite prophetic, but in this essay he made this prediction:

Game Plus Fame Will Be More Important Than Anything

It doesn’t have to be national fame, but you must be known for something with a reputation that precedes you. You must have a YouTube channel with millions of views. You must be a proprietor of a hipster butcher shop. You must be a popular writer, artist, or musician. You must be nightclub promoter or DJ. You must be a competitive skateboarder. Your must be the notorious editor of a cupcake newsletter. In a culture where a million people are “famous,” you’ll have to work your ass off for scraps if you’re not. Nurture your own style and niche and then leverage that to get pussy. Game will always have its use, but game plus fame will be the qualities that tomorrow’s Casanova possess. Otherwise you’ll be approaching all day and night to fuck a 6 who stops calling you after a couple bangs. You must have the complete package to get the hottest girls, with game being only the first ability of a multi-level game warrior. Guys without game will simply not get laid, not even with ugly girls.

While I would disagree with the assessment that ‘fame’ is a prerequisite element to get the lay today, I do agree with the idea that the social proof that comes with genuine ‘fame’ status is now a vital part of what makes for male attention that women perceive as validating of their egos. As Roosh implies here, that fame need not be anything more than the contextual variety, and I’d also add that the perception of fame, or even the perception of a potential for fame, is now a required element for a man women would consider ‘marriageable’.

From an Alpha Fucks, short-term, ovulatory phase Hypergamy perspective, a man can get by on Game, looks, confidence, etc., but for anything more than this men are in a competition. This is not a competition with other men per se, but with the expected entitlements women’s egos and an entire feminine social order has convinced them is men’s duty to embody for them.

In our brave new world of instant global communication, social media and the ego aggrandizing influence it has on women is exactly what anyone should expect it would be. When we look at the progress of the social and legislative repercussions that the influence of unfettered Hypergamy has had on our social order should we really be surprised that women would use social media as a vehicle for expressing and advancing their sexual strategy?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

406 comments on “Of Ego and Choice

  1. Female Dark Triad Traits… seem bent on emasculating men whereas male Dark Triad traits seem bent on raising a man’s status.

    One common female Dark Triad trait is a total lack of empathy and accountability giving them free reign to tree branch.

    I’ve had at least 3 girls deliberately try to seduce friends of mine…and play it off as “they’re just friends…”

    When I walked away or ignored them…whatever budding romance they were initiating quickly dries up and they begin chasing me again.

  2. “One common female Dark Triad trait is a total lack of empathy and accountability giving them free reign to tree branch.”

    “She admitted that she made up the allegation of sexual assault against (the football players) because it was the first thing that came to mind and she didn’t want to lose (another male student) as a friend and potential boyfriend. She stated that she believed when (the other male student) heard the allegation it would make him angry and sympathetic to her,” the affidavit said.

    Yovino could face up to five years in prison if convicted of second-degree false reporting of an incident and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.”

  3. @Fleezer …. And that’s the rub….even after 5 years of adopting the Red Pill….there are still times when I’m completely blind-sided or perhaps underestimated the vitriol of a woman…

    It’s the shit-test that goes way too far and in cases like the one you cite leads into situations that cause them legal consequences. But they never think of that and there is always some white knight beta orbiter ready to give them the benefit of the doubt…

    One of my friends told me words to the effect that well, she was throwing herself at him but he was resisting. I nodded and made like it didn’t matter. Then I immediately cut him loose for a lack of integrity…one thing to go out, another thing completely to allow yourself into a compromising situation.

    This is the reason why women seek alphas and settle for betas….the betas are less work but more importantly betas are enablers who accept, rationalize and ignore Dark Triad Traits in women….they effectively take on the female role in that dynamic allowing the woman to break free and act out on her basic impulses. When that happens…it never ends well for both parties.

    A few years back…I knew there was something amiss but let my guard down just enough to be blind-sided. In the one case the girl created a fake Facebook account and then bad mouthed me to my friends. I had to get FB to take it down. I knew she was a little off…but that was something so nuts it was completely out of my imagination.

  4. @Scribblerg

    “But on the other hand, I think women also see things differently and sometimes it isn’t about “truth”, it’s about one’s POV. And when I try a bit to see a woman’s point of view, I find it quite helpful. What seems like a lie suddenly doesn’t look that way. As well, they will value hurt feelings over the facts and while I don’t like that, it’s just as “true” to them as rationality seems to me.

    What’s most important is to depersonalize it. It’s not about you, it’s them. It’s just their adaptive way of being. No reason to let it bother me at all. I don’t get mad when the dog barks, and I don’t get mad when women act like women.

    I also think that women use communication differently. They are seeking different outcomes and payoffs than we are, so it’s not terribly useful to boil it down to honesty or the lack of it.”

    It isn’t about differing points of view, it’s about your point of view.

    Regret is undertaking an endeavour which resulted in some physical, psychological or material harm to yourself, that wasn’t in your best interests.
    Empathising with another’s point of view will eventually lead to regret.
    While women are more emotive than men, they don’t value feelings above rational thinking. They can’t. Logic is the coin of reality and there’s no escaping either.

    Could a woman say, upon meet you “I’m going to have sex with you 20 times over the next 5 years, We will marry and have a child and I will divorce you and take your home and child away from you. Along with a substantial amount of your future income?

    Of course not. But in all likelihood this is what she’ll do.
    Her irrational behaviour and irksome mode of speech is the strategy for achieving this.

  5. “Her irrational behaviour and irksome mode of speech is the strategy for achieving this.”

    Thanks for mentioning it so. I had an epiphany last night.

    Upthread we’re talking about dark triad women. I mention that a difficult woman, blah, blah, fun to break.

    Sweet, sweet, anon. You truly are beautiful, don’t change one bit. Well anon describes I’ve never met one, that’s fortunate, as the emotional ramifications of such is powerful. Yeah, but the point here is anon default reply was cat-style emotion. In a way: Ooh…you don’t understand the mystical power of the dark triad…hannibal lecter in a pant suit…she could be anywhere…watch your ass…

    Me: I don’t deny dark traid, it seems not to apply in most cases. Anon: Oh no, it’s real! You never felt the scaryiness!

    A little fun at you expense anon, thanks for being so swell. I liked your reply as it was choice girl. Really great.

    O.k. last night being grilled by Mrs. Eh re: fight club. Terms, definitions, how it applies to us. She wrapping her head around much of my description…but her persistent unclear responses and increased tension got me thinking. Am I barking fight club at her? So I switch to cat descriptions, how RP is like clay in a man’s hands…he can make something useful quickly, a planter for his wife, ha-ha. BP guys make a lumpy ashtray, useful, but not pretty. Much better, but she still can’t get it.

    Oh no though! If I explain fight club, and she truly figures me out, I mean knows me, the dream, the intoxication of mysterious masculinity dies. Right? Then the passion dies with it, Right?

    Then it dawns…she’ll never get it…as she’ll never feel fight club as a man feels fight club…the only way she can understand anything…feelz. There is always the emotional solipsism getting in the way. Her sweet, emotive nature, like anon’s response, guarantees all-in RP men will always be just out of reach, always worth chasing.

    Shit tests aren’t tests, they’re opportunity, application of increased RP value.

    Woo-Woo! Have a great weekend.

  6. @EhIntellect

    Good insights. And good skills in keeping your masculine Frame. And realizing as long as she trusts you (esp. your alpha Frame and you vision), she’s OK with “you” being just out of reach like in the female romance novels.

    What she is doing is using her masculine, dominant communication words (dog words) to test you.(just checking if your congruent and authentic and not still beta). Her masculine critical thinking skills that she used back when you were beta are empowering to her. (She earned those running-the-household skills fair and square while the children were being raised.) More so than her newly developing higher level feminine skills (which include trust of her man’s direction and support of her man’s vision).

    She’s not quite their in surrendering to her feminine side. Surrendering to love. She’s hesitant to go all in on submission. She’s already there physically (submission in sex) but not wholly there emotionally and intellectually (because the feminine primary social order and Mainstream Media and the Church keep reminding her that’s not proper 2017 womanese). Keep doing what you are doing, time extinguishes former behavior.

    Shit tests are tests not merely to pass, but to use to your (red pill awareness and game) opportunity.

    Rollo in Acing the Test:

    You’ll notice I didn’t say ‘pass’ the shit test. I think it’s a misnomer to view shit tests as a pass or fail proposition. Most men like that easy binary win-lose proposition, but the problem I have with that is that ‘passing’ a shit test implies finality. You will always be shit tested by a woman, so you never really pass that test, however you can and should turn those tests to your advantage.

    That’s why it’s best to treat shit tests as low-hurdle, fun and games and as opportunities. That frees your mind to be creative instead of when you perceive them as annoying threats to you burden of performance.

  7. Eh, have a great weekend too. 🙂

    Had an interesting conversation last night. A couple of ladies were discussing the benefits of all-girl schools for their daughters. They said it made all the difference and their daughters benefited greatly. They left with a great deal more confidence and their grades improved.

    I noted that girls were horrible to me in school and I couldn’t imagine being in a female only environment every day with no hope of escape. They said it was the same for their girls. Other girls were horrible to them, but as soon as they left the environments where they were in competition for attention from the boys, the horrible behavior ended. This is why the behavior began around sixth grade (which was my experience also). I’d say that’s the difference between “normal” female cattiness and the other sort (dark t). I myself have been stalked, had stuff stolen from my home (a hairbrush, very odd). By a person I’m pretty sure had the ex wife of her husband buried somewhere in her back yard.
    Fun stuff! Time to get started on our taxes….

  8. Its not just the problem of “overblown” egos.

    “Not the least of which because they are unaware of their active participation in creating a generation of woman who will have nothing to do with him while she enjoys her peak SMV years, but also to complain about his inadequacies of meeting the requirements her ego demands of men when she finds it necessary to lock down a ‘marriageable’ man. He is the architect of his own failings…”

    This is the problem! I helped hundreds of men with divorces but RARELY I witnessed that those very men, who themsleves were victims of ballbusting divorce, shared their knowledge with other men or helped them when needed. Men just “dont care” when it comes to sufferings of other men.Its manifested in war when superior men sent other men to die. Men are simply made to compete with each other for women not to unite and help themselves against women.

    Should men unite…in a year – majority of women are in a line. But this will not happen. Women unite while men fight individually and inevitably – fail.

    We have white knights beta men supplicating and providing for women, we have all those “womanizers” feeding ego of women with continuous mocking in bars and streets, we have politicians passing laws protecting women so that women elect them…we have…

    Look at the small minority of men who actually do what may help – MGTOW. This minority tells women – either you behave like I want or you can go and fuck yourself. They behave like women in this respect they only flipped sides. This is the only effective strategy of power, if majority of men goes MGTOW, majority of women will be in a line within a year or two. They are made to pocreate and they will do anything to enable that.

    But this MGTOW movement is ostracized more by men themselves like by women! The more men goes MGTOW the bigger power of all men. They simply reduce demand! Prize of each men goes higher! Yet men themselves do not want to master women, they want to …serve them. Men are their worst enemies when it comes to women. Not beta men – but vast majority of men are architects of their own failings.

    Are we able to unite? NO! Are we able to tell women as a group – do what we want ladies or go fuck yourself? NO! FUCKING NO! Women are telling that to us! And we are discussing strategies of how to…ehm..court this mysterious creatue and be wort of their interest? Ego of woman? What is it? Its just our illusion, how could weaker creature have and ego? She will do what stronger creature allow her to do! All women rights are nothing but male illusion!

    Yeah – new generation of lambs arises, doomed for the failure as the last…

  9. Gregg

    We have white knights beta men supplicating and providing for women, we have all those “womanizers” feeding ego of women with continuous mocking in bars and streets, we have politicians passing laws protecting women so that women elect them…we have…

    We have this… and it undoes all the grand plans…

    http://i5.lisimg.com/8793835/280full.jpg

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BEeId35POqe/

    As soon as a 5’10 34-24-35 struts into the scene… all bets are off.

  10. that women’s egos have become overblown.

    They are overblown because men made it that way. Sorry guys – you’ve done it to yourself. But there is one redemption – the guy that doesn’t play by the book becomes THE one that MUST be gotten. Now, I’m nothing special – just a guy that doesn’t accept sh*t from women. Now I have a band, and am in front of lots of women. The reason for that is because I understood that is the fastest, easiest way to get women in bed with little effort. That’s worked well for me – but the women all come to me. If they don’t I ignore them but they understand THEY are the commodity and if they want my attention, they have to offer me something NOW and it has to be worth my time.

    The ONLY thing women have to offer of value, is beauty, and sex – and fortunately men like to f*ck beautiful women. I’m not the exception. But beautiful women are plentiful – as long as you understand that it only lasts for a few years and after that, they start the great down-hill slide. Fortunately, I only need them for a night or two – or at best a couple of months. Nothing new in that – but a lot of guys buy the pretty package, that is wilting then are stuck with fat, ugly, bitchy women – why? Because they listen to women telling them they have to. That is non-sense – women ALWAYS want what they don’t have – what they have is worthless to them. And there are always younger women waiting in the wings, coming of age… This weekend I’ll be having sex with women that weren’t born till the late 90’s, when I started I had sex with a woman born in 29 – my goal is 100 years of sex… That first one was a lot older than me, the ones this weekend will be a lot younger – they all offer the same thing, and I enjoy it.

    In those women that come to me after a performance are many married women, or women in relationships. And they enjoy getting what they don’t get at home – being treated like the slut they are. I don’t blame them – I blame the Feminists that have taught them to over-value themselves, and the men that support that belief. These days women seem to enjoy being f**ked while having their husband or boyfriend on the phone. Used to be that was a seldom event, these days it’s more and more common. I’m fine with it – no skin off my nose and I’m getting what I want. But that is what women have become – any man that trusts a woman is a fool. It’s not their fault, they have never been held accountable – and when they are, they will whine and cry. But by then it’s too late – they are old and then no one wants them. As a man, you can enjoy them when they are young, and pass them on to some fool when they are old.

    So guys, enjoy women, but never give them power over you. They aren’t worth it. Now, I have several women that I see weekly, they are the ones I’m in a “relationship” with, but its on my terms. They are there for me and me alone, but I get to enjoy whomever I want. Women accept that – at least the ones that understand if they are to get what they want, those are the rules. Too many men aren’t willing to just walk away – I am. As long as you are willing to walk away you have control of a relationship – never give that power up.

    Now my life isn’t for everyone, but it works for me. One of the women I’m seeing at the moment asked if I ever wanted a family. At some point, yes – but I can be 80 before I start that family. I’ve fathered more than a few children – just don’t have to deal with the cost or the other non-sense. That is the advantage of being a man – so I have at least 10 children out there that I know of, some I’ve met later, others I haven’t. Why do I have children? Because the women wanted a child and were married or in a relationship with a guy that believed their lies that it was theirs. Men are stupid, and we reap what we sow – so never buy into the dominant paradigm – always follow what is best for you. Women are to be enjoyed – that’s it. Never forget they are easily replaceable, And the chase is 90% of the fun.

    When I go on stage I never know which of the women in the audience I’ll be having sex with tonight, and I don’t care. I know that I won’t be sleeping alone, and that is all that matters to a man. Don’t care about her goals, or objectives other than her goal of having me straining above her and cumming inside of her, and I’m more than happy to give them that, as long as they give me a fun evening. That is all women are good for – you can thank Feminism for that – once upon a time women were partners – now they are only for sex. Never forget that, and accept it as you won’t change it. So enjoy it…

  11. @JustSaying – glad you have found what works for you, run with it!

    Can’t say I’m a fan of fathering children with no regard to their welfare. If being accountable and responsible for your choices are masculine, then you’ve only joined the feminine with your actions with that. Absolving yourself and blaming others is very much weak and feminine.

    Fuck them all you want and do it on your terms. Leave the innocents out of it.

  12. @Gregg

    Men just “dont care” when it comes to sufferings of other men.

    This just isn’t true. Fuck, man, look what Rollo is doing with this blog. And the commenters.

    Now it’s true that men don’t always share their experience with other men. Men used to share more, but the rise of homosexuality may have contributed to a reluctance of straight men to bond with other men. And men often aren’t in the home of young lads growing up because of court orders. And men are marrying later, so granddads aren’t sharing so much with young men. Boys often aren’t at home. Family dysfunction has a lot to do with this, I think–even in relatively “normal” families. Families used to eat meals together every meal and spend evenings together. Now, young men bond to their own generation instead of to dad and granddad.

  13. “This just isn’t true. Fuck, man, look what Rollo is doing with this blog. And the commenters.”

    I’d nominate Rollo’s essay Tribes as the best of 2016.

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/05/15/tribes/

    I never enjoyed women so much as when I developed solid relationship’s in doing things with a core group of other men that were highly invested in the welfare of the other men in the group. And that investment was altruistic even if it appeared to be self interest.

    It also embodied the covert ties between mentors and one’s that sought mentor’s in a proper fashion so as to reap the rewards of that mentorship. The way of men in a group is such that all men have skills, tactics and virtues that can help other men in some way. The mentor/protege roles often flipped back and forth.

    Groups of men in a gang are scale-able from two to five to 15 to 25. There is rarely cohesion when the group gets above 75-100 men. There’s a reason for that and it is anchored in Trust.

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/01/18/a-teachable-moment/comment-page-3/

    (SJF January 20, 2016 at 10:42 am)

  14. @Just Saying:

    Yeah. Step up and be a Real Man(tm). Provide. That’ll show those pussies you’re not a pussy. No FI trap for you. No sir, you’re too smart for that. You have a ball and chain and you know how to use it.

    Dr. Zipper:

    Put.Down.The.PraegerU. Go directly to The Best of TRM Year One.

  15. fuck you kfg

    I say be responsible for your actions and choices. If kids aren’t your thing, then don’t have any.

    I never said ‘provide’ because FI wants you too. Provide because being a man involves taking risks (like shooting your load into some ONS) and living with the consequences.

    Shirking and thinking only of what feels good *now* with no regards to collateral damage (near and long term) is very feminine and we have reams of posts and comments bemoaning that very thing.

    Hypocrisy isn’t a step up. At least women were born that way, men have a choice.

  16. They are overblown because men made it that way. Sorry guys – you’ve done it to yourself.

    Men may facilitate it, but they are not responsible for the innate predispositions of women. I have no argument as to whether men enable the inflation of women’s egos (that’s why I included the Petapixel article), but they only do so because attention seeking is part of women’s psychological firmware. That can be used to a mans’ advantage or it can be a source of his Beta frustration, but it is what it is.

    https://therationalmale.com/2015/07/14/our-sisters-keeper/

  17. @Dr. Zipper: “I say . . .”

    And Just Saying says something else. I understand that Deltas have problems with Alphas. You two get in the octagon and work out your differences.

  18. @Ollie – Little reminder, women are actually human beings. I can empathize with women but not be BP or submit. You seemed to have missed my point entirely, and i can’t say I actually even understand yours.

    How being empathetic leads to regret is some weird shit you made up in your head. And I didn’t claim women value emotions over the real world, I said they value emotions over rationality. But even then, I’m just skimming the surface. Being in sales I know that all people make buying decisions emotionally and rationalize them, and check them at the margins with rationality afterwards. So we are talking in broad generalizations here.

    Women value emotional context in communications, men value content. However, we both emit and understand context and content, it’s just a matter of what predominates.

  19. @Gregg – Hi. Gotta say that I think you are pretty confused.

    “Look at the small minority of men who actually do what may help – MGTOW. This minority tells women – either you behave like I want or you can go and fuck yourself.”

    Uhhm, no. MGTOW don’t deal with women. If you are dealing with women, you aren’t MGTOW. Game skilled, Red Pill men understand that they are bio-programmed to desire hot sex with nubile women as frequently as they can. The go about their business accordingly.

    Once an RP man becomes his own MPO, women fall into their proper place. He gives off the high value which makes women behave as he wants – he demands nothing. He negotiates nothing. He is dominant and she submits. A MGTOW has none of these abilities nor the mindset.

    And yeah, I’m gonna keep on doing this. You can’t just make MGTOW mean whatever you want. Every RP man is putting himself first and no longer serving women – that’s the definition of Red Pill, MGTOW cannot claim that. MGTOW is men who detach from women. Anything else is not MGTOW.

    I’m so tired of this BS being recycled.

  20. @Scribblerg

    You’re paying attention to what women say and not what they do.

    To avoid a long discussion, would you say empathy leads towards your mental point of origin or away from it?

  21. @ ScribblerG and Ollie

    “Little reminder, women are actually human beings. I can empathize with women but not be BP or submit. You seemed to have missed my point entirely, and i can’t say I actually even understand yours.”

    I can’t understand Ollie’s point or contex either.

    “To avoid a long discussion, would you say empathy leads towards your mental point of origin or away from it?

    I say that question is either a non sequitur or irrelevant. Empathy and Love are not verboten virtues in Red Pill (it’s just that it is rare for a man to be confident and competent enough to employ them) . You’d figure as such because of their lack of respect in the manosphere, but it is a normal part of man’s firmware. But requires proper calibrated tactical employment in relationship game.

    Read this former post about Stay With Her Intensity To a Point for perspective on

    “When a woman gets emotionally intense, a mediocre man wants to calm her down and discuss it, or leave and come back later when she is “sane”. A superior man penetrates her mood with imperturbable love and unwavering consciousness. If she still refuses to live more fully in love, after a time, he lets her go.”

    In this link to a comment with a Deida Chapter (Stay With Her Intensity to a Point, Chapter 21) , over a decade ago I claimed foul on the part of the woman and actually couldn’t get through denial, bargaining, and acceptance and depression as I normally could in regard to the second to last paragraph. Silly me, I wasn’t Competent at that time. And I tabled the paradigm for ten years. Now the last paragraph (in the link) solves the question.

    It takes both confidence and competence to keep proper Frame in a relationship.

  22. re above and deep conversion:

    The market is the market. Value is determined by bidding in the market. Like it or not.

    Alpha is rare enough and desirable enough that women will pay for it and think they stole it.

  23. “The market is the market. Value is determined by bidding in the market. Like it or not.”

    I like it. Even if you are talking about Game in the single market, the same holds true in relationship Game. If it’s a market and/or a Game, I’m going to be (and am) good at it.

    The most job secure drug reps that call on me have an intrinsically good product to market.

  24. @Gregg

    I do agree with your MGTOW sentiment. It would solve a lot of problems. The trouble as you’ve pointed out is most men won’t do it. It’s woman or bust for them.
    A man I think, should have an all encompassing goal in his life. Something that makes the accomplishment about him and no one else.

  25. Scrib…maybe we have problems with definitions. Mgtow for me means simply man who does not buy feminine frame and lives under his rules. Free man. He pursues ‘his own way’ not that one prescribed by feminine imperative. He might fuck women or not, does not matter..but the definition is that he has his frame which is more important for him as the women. Just sayin here is an example of mgtow man. I myself am one of them…living under my rules and fucking women under my rules, running company and my life under my rules. Freedom…this is mgtow under my definition. Nothing more but..nothing less!

  26. @SJF

    The mental point of origin and empathy are both rooted in our psychology. One is a societal convention, the other a natural disposition. This insight was alluded to in Rollo’s mental point of origin essay.
    My point (if it wasn’t clear already) was showing undue empathy is the antithesis of the mental point of origin. The MPO is a goal state for all who are red pill aware, because it represents the best foot foward principle, as a matter of rote.
    Any other mind set will lead you to revisiting a decision at a later date and questioning it. Even regretting it.

  27. @Scrib

    “You can’t just make MGTOW mean whatever you want. Every RP man is putting himself first and no longer serving women – that’s the definition of Red Pill, MGTOW cannot claim that.”

    Neither can you.
    Red pill is the basis of MGTOW. Anything beyond that is flexible.
    You keep constructing strawmen arguments.

    This man remains fixated with MGTOW because he was a tier zero MGTOW and has a buyer’s remorse.
    No use arguing terminologies with this broken record.

  28. @Ollie

    I just disagree with your self view in inter-personal relationships. I think your paradigm is just too simplistic. I’m sure you have it figured out for you. (But since you have never defined who you are (based on your life circumstance) for for us who you are discussing things with that confusion will persist.

    Empathy is a socialized feature. Children aren’t born with it. Some psychologically unhealthy and not properly socialized mothers never have it for their children.

    A man can keep ultimate frame and have himself as his own point of mental origin and still have empathy and love for a woman.

    That ability is shown in Deida’s third stage model of relationships. And I claim it is expressed in a guy like Blaximus. I’ve done all the stages and I prefer the third stage too. But it takes resources and abilities (competence). And that third stage is rooted in fearlessness and results in mental and spiritual freedom for the man.

    It’s a have your cake (or pussy) and eat it too scenario. (For reference: The can’t have your cake and eat it too phrase can be used to say that one cannot or should not have or want more than one deserves or is reasonable, or that one cannot or should not try to have two incompatible things. The proverb’s meaning is similar to the phrases “you can’t have it both ways” and “you can’t have the best of both worlds.”–Wikipedia)

    http://www.masculinity-movies.com/articles/the-three-stages-of-david-deida

    Another take on this freedom via the Alan Watts mindset of knowing who you are and the Masculine edge of Deida:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-6/#comment-164388

    And a third reference to that third stage was in this comments section Of Ego and Choice @SJF on February 20, 2017 at 6:50 am ( listed instead of linked, two link limit here)

  29. Watched the first forty-four minutes of the video. Great stuff for the novice of psychological battle! (On the good guy’s side.)

  30. I hope you all watch that video in full. It was excellent.

    The only thing I would fault him in is his faith in “private marriage.” He put more skepticism into the institution than he did his marriage partner. The institution can be trusted if the person you marry can. Mark and I were married, alone, in the Mohave Desert by a kind, if somewhat bewildered, officiant. Despite a variety of obstacles, we have maintained our joy in one another for almost four years now. That is the kind of mental toughness you need to defeat some of the conditions the presenter described, and it is the fortitude that will serve you in all ways all the days of your life.

  31. I’ve tried to say on many an occasion that if a man is Red Pill aware there’s no going back to the Blue Pill ignorance he was comforted by before. To some guys that sounds Matrix Movies LARPy, but it is accurate. Once you’re made aware of the intersexual dynamics you’re conditioned to accept as normal and believe in to the point that you’ll unwittingly frame your life’s decisions on them, and once you emancipate yourself, even slightly, by being made aware of the real game going on behind all of that, you cannot help but be a MGTOW in some sense of the term.

    Even if you go into some categoric denial and close your eyes to the intersexual games being perpetrated on you, you still know to some effect that it’s still going on in spite of you. Even in denial you’re still going your own way in that you’re not ‘as’ plugged in as you were or the other BP men who are sleeping next to you.

    I tried to make this distinction with Niko Chosky when we first started talking. I think he had a hard time with the more militant ‘girls are evil’ MGTOWs. He wanted to interact with women and form a relationship (which is why I think he’s gone dark recently) but that was never going to be acceptable to the hardline MGTOWs. I still think that distinction needs to be made.

    TRP and the RoK crew think MGTOWs are sexless losers mad at the world. RSD Todd and a more than a few ‘dating coaches’ use the hardliners as examples of bitter men who are only MGTOW because they got burned and close themselves off to ‘love’. They need that impression to stick if they want to sell videos and counseling programs: “don’t be bitter like those MGTOW guys, learn from me and you’ll be healthy.”

    I think the truth is that every RP aware man can’t help but be MGTOW by order of degree. This is one reason I persist in reaching out to that community on Reddit and some other forums. If you’re RP aware you can’t help but ‘go your own way’ if only for the fact that you can’t live in the BP paradigm you did before. The distinction is how far you go in going your own way.

  32. @Rollo
    “I think the truth is that every RP aware man can’t help but be MGTOW by order of degree. This is one reason I persist in reaching out to that community on Reddit and some other forums. If you’re RP aware you can’t help but ‘go your own way’ if only for the fact that you can’t live in the BP paradigm you did before. The distinction is how far you go in going your own way.”

    I agree with your sentiment.

    A man is either going ‘his way’ or ‘somebody else’s way’. This is at the core of Frame & MPO.

    RP awareness, Frame & MPO ‘depth’ are not binary… they live on a spectrum according to one’s confidence & competence (HT to @SJF), and will often ‘modulate’ depending on degree of internalization and circumstance.

    A MGTOW is in the driver’s seat of his life. Whether a woman is sitting beside him, going along for the ride, is immaterial. What’s important is to be one who’s driving.

    Incubus – Drive

    Sometimes, I feel the fear of uncertainty stinging clear
    And I can’t help but ask myself how much I’ll let the fear
    Take the wheel and steer

    It’s driven me before
    And it seems to have a vague, haunting mass appeal
    But lately I am beginning to find
    That I should be the one behind the wheel

    Whatever tomorrow brings
    I’ll be there with open arms and open eyes

    Whatever tomorrow brings
    I’ll be there with open arms and open eyes

    So if I decide to waiver my chance
    To be one of the hive
    Will I choose water over wine
    And hold my own and drive?

    It’s driven me before
    And it seems to be the way that everyone else gets around
    But lately I am beginning to find
    That when I drive myself my light is found

    So whatever tomorrow brings
    I’ll be there with open arms and open eyes, yeh

    Whatever tomorrow brings
    I’ll be there with open arms and open eyes

    Would you kill the Queen to crush the hive?
    Would you choose water over wine
    Hold the wheel and drive?

  33. “Niko Chosky . . . I think he had a hard time with the more militant ‘girls are evil’ MGTOWs.”

    They threatened to go full SJW tactics on him, destroying his RL reputation and career. Some others felt they were under sufficient threat that they went full Internet ghost and have never come back.

    “I think the truth is that every RP aware man can’t help but be MGTOW by order of degree.”

    However you wish to define MGTOW, the core of it is being Red Pill aware and your own Mental Point of Origin. Everything else derives from that.

    The men who got together, coined the term, designed the traffic sign logo and wrote the manifesto to define what they meant by it did not in any way even imply that MGTOW meant celibacy. It was, in fact, originally a separation from the Men’s Rights movement which was being overrun by egalitarians promoting the FI.

    In MGTOW 2.0 celibacy is certainly under the MGTOW umbrella and by many considered the highest attainment, but not the definition. It is generally agreed outside of AVfM (which tried to co-opt MGTOW as an AVfM brand and feminize it).

    Incel is not MGTOW, in the same manner that weakness is not non-violence and the “real” hardcore MGTOW are “chick magnets,” like the man whose video I posted upthread.

  34. “A MGTOW is in the driver’s seat of his life. Whether a woman is sitting beside him, going along for the ride, is immaterial. What’s important is to be one who’s driving.”

    There ya go.

  35. Brain skip. Oops:

    “It is generally agreed outside of AVfM (which tried to co-opt MGTOW as an AVfM brand and feminize it) . . . ”

    . . . that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.

  36. @kfg – “that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.”

    That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive.

    At some level I agree but I can’t articulate why; something about being in a legal arrangement brings in a 3rd party (the state) with powers to make a man do stuff and not actually be able to truly go his own way.

    That aside, is there something else as to why can’t a married man be “driving?” Like Blaximus seems to be doing? He fits my definition of going his own way.

  37. “That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive.”

    Right.

    ” . . . something about being in a legal arrangement brings in a 3rd party (the state) with powers to make a man do stuff and not actually be able to truly go his own way.”

    Right again.

    “That aside, is there something else as to why can’t a married man be “driving?” Like Blaximus seems to be doing?”

    And it is from Blaximus, Sentient and SJF that I would expect objection, and for them to use the same arguments as did AVfM. i.e., they are doing as they wish, therefore they are going their own way.

    But freedom isn’t defined by what you are doing, it is defined by what you can do, the available degrees of freedom. When you are travelling through a tunnel you are doing so voluntarily, but you are doing so voluntarily because that’s all you can voluntarily do. The degree of freedom to pull over and take a nap in a park in not available.

    To move the frame to one where there is less emotional charge, I find my MGTOW style cramped simply by owning a house. It places me in a subservient position and perpetually in financial debt to another party (the state). I am compelled to relinquish my resources to a number of things I detest.

  38. @dr zipper
    “That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive.”

    This was @kfg’s full comment…

    “In MGTOW 2.0 celibacy is certainly under the MGTOW umbrella and by many considered the highest attainment, but not the definition. It is generally agreed outside of AVfM (which tried to co-opt MGTOW as an AVfM brand and feminize it) that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.”

    I got the sense that @kfg disagrees with the assessment that MGTOW and marriage are necessarily mutually exclusive.

    My personal litmus is simple… “are you driving and is she along for the ride?”

    My experience with the ‘hardcore’ MGTOWs has been they are not as nearly in their Frame or their MPO as they claim to be. The fixation with ‘evil women’ displays the lack of ‘indifference’ necessary for a well internalized Frame and MPO. Abundance and Outcome Independence are a requisite component to a solid frame and I don’t see the hardline MGTOWs exhibiting either.

  39. “I got the sense that @kfg disagrees with the assessment that MGTOW and marriage are necessarily mutually exclusive.”

    That is just me trying to lay things out relatively objectively. I do accept it as per my next comment.

    “My experience with the ‘hardcore’ MGTOWs has been they are not as nearly in their Frame or their MPO as they claim to be.”

    Scribbler and I agree on one MGTOW point: there are many professing to be MGTOW who are nothing of the kind. There are also many who I will aver are MGTOW, but are anything but paragons of the philosophy.

  40. I note that there are YouTube MGTOW channels that follow a certain trajectory:

    They appear and post a number of really good Red Pill/MGTOW videos, but then post one whose theme is “Look, I’m tired of talking about women. I’m a man, going his own way, so from now on I’m going to be posting about the things I’m doing on my way.”

    Then they’ll post one or three videos about things they’re into. Then the channel goes dormant or gets taken down.

    Because they’re too busy going their own way and they are involved with the “communities” that are in line with their missions.

  41. @KFG

    “And it is from Blaximus, Sentient and SJF that I would expect objection, and for them to use the same arguments as did AVfM. i.e., they are doing as they wish, therefore they are going their own way.”

    Can’t bait me with that one KFG, as I am in total agreement with what you said and the way you phrased it.

    I gave up on wishing for freedom back in 1977 when I realized that boots on the ground experiences were going to be a Game (including constraints–rules and regulations– on how that game is played) and if so, I was going to learn the rules, develop the skills and be good at the Game. I realized, also that I didn’t have the wherewithal to not play the game, based on my circumstances.

    So, if I had to make a statement for myself as it relates to The Red Pill, I would say this:

    “I am doing as I want, and as long as I have the sovereignty (or real power) to maintain control over my circumstance and ability to control the direction of my life, then I’m totally satisfied with my red pill awareness and game fruits.”

    This comes with the caveat that I’m very comfortable IRL with accepting cognitive dissonance and am not afraid of uncertainty. Others might not want to try this at home.

    There is a subtle difference between the verbs wish and want. My want is more of a physical need for structure (including wife and children and modest wealth) instead of wish to not have structure. And most of that is because of my playing to my strengths and minimizing my weaknesses. But I’m happy and satisfied as of now. (And a damn good thing that I know what I want.)

    http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-wish-and-vs-want/

    Wish vs Want

    Wish and Want are two words that are often confused as words that give the same meaning. Strictly speaking there is difference in the usage of wish and want. A wish refers to ‘desire’ as in the sentence ‘I wish to go out for a walk now’. On the other hand a want refers to ‘need’ or something that is related to the psychology of a person. It is thus termed as psychological want.

    Want refers to physical needs such as shelter and clothing. On the other hand wish is used in the sense of request too as in the sentence ‘It is my wish’. In this sentence the use of the word ‘wish’ suggests the sense of ‘request’.

    As a matter of fact both wish and want are used as verbs too as in the sentences

    1. I wish you all the best.

    2. I want to go to Canberra this week.

    In both the sentences given above the words ‘wish’ and ‘want’ are used as verbs. It is important to know that the word ‘wish’ is often followed by the preposition ‘for’ as in the sentences

    1. Francis wishes for the speedy recovery of Albert.

    2. I too wish for happiness.

    In both the sentences given above you can see that the verb ‘wish’ is followed by the preposition ‘for’. On the other hand the verb ‘want’ is often followed by the preposition ‘to’ as in the sentences

    1. I want to give him 30 dollars.

    2. Jasmine wants to talk to her friend.

    In both the sentences given above you can see that the verb ‘want’ is followed by the preposition ‘to’. This is one of the major differences between the two verbs, namely ‘wish’ and ‘want’. The usage of both the verbs is to be understood with precision.

  42. My want is more of a physical and psychological need for structure. And that’s a lot based on my INTJ psychological makeup including strengths and weaknesses.

  43. @SJF: “Can’t bait me with that one KFG . . .”

    Not so much baiting as heading off at the pass, so I don’t have to go through the whole “what I meant was . . .” dance later on.

  44. My wife reading memoirs. She is currently reading Mygen Kelly’s. Occasionally, she’ll read me things to me. Last night, she says, “Here’s how women are,” and began reading…

    I was at Fox for ~2yrs when some female Fox colleagues stood in the hallway, just outside her office, making plans for Happy Hour. No one came in to invite me… I thought we liked each other. That night I went to my women’s group (a therapy group of 8 women) and told them what happened. I wanted sympathy, instead I got… honesty.

    One woman said, “I wouldn’t have invited you either.”

    “Why not?” I asked.

    Her answer, “Because you seem like you have it all together. You seem so sure of yourself. You’re attractive. All of the attention would flow to you and none to me. You never talk about having a bad hair day or feeling fat. There’s nothing in you that I relate to. I wouldn’t want to share the table with you.”

  45. I’ve tried to say on many an occasion that if a man is Red Pill aware there’s no going back to the Blue Pill ignorance he was comforted by before.

    A one way ticket.

    I’ve never been in prison but I have a couple of friends that have. This is fairly common knowledge but they confirmed it, saying some men, a short while after getting out will intentionally do something to get back in. The outside world has become too unstructured, confusing, and difficult to live in for these men.

    A sudden slap of Red Pill awareness on a Blue Pill man can have a similar effect. The ex-con can engineer his way back to his last known comfort zone, as irrational as it may sound to other people; but the Blue Pill man has started learning things he can’t now stop knowing. He can’t get back to where he was, he can only pretend to be there.

  46. @kate
    I watched the whole bloody thing. I did not know about private marriage, but it sounds like something western men should have adapted many, many years ago. Considering that this guy would probably still be legally married to that “creature” and bleeding money like nonsense in divorce court if he had entered in to signed-license-marriage, why would you fault him for his faith in private marriage?

  47. “But freedom isn’t defined by what you are doing, it is defined by what you can do, the available degrees of freedom. When you are travelling through a tunnel you are doing so voluntarily, but you are doing so voluntarily because that’s all you can voluntarily do. The degree of freedom to pull over and take a nap in a park in not available.

    To move the frame to one where there is less emotional charge, I find my MGTOW style cramped simply by owning a house. It places me in a subservient position and perpetually in financial debt to another party (the state). I am compelled to relinquish my resources to a number of things I detest.”

    Can a person own property and be MGTOW? Or pets?
    A ranch or farm or business could be more limiting on personal freedom than a spouse.

  48. Property does not try to stop from going to the gym or flip out when you don’t bring roses. Property does not divorce rape you. You can even sell property. Can you sell your wife? She is worthless.

  49. he he ☺

    Because I feel the underlying mistake is believing that the any kind of marriage contract is going to protect you from who a person is or who they could become. Having a different kind of marriage still did not save him from the emotional damage she was able to cause. But I do see your point in that not having a legal marriage saved him from standard divorce. I do have to wonder how much authority your marriage has though if not legal. For instance, would it be easier for a partner to rationalize adultery by saying, oh, well, we weren’t really married. Part of the point I may not have fully conveyed before is how authentic do you think someone who participates in these theatrical weddings is? Where is the modesty?

    In hindsight you can see that the private marriage benefited her more than him as she was the higher earner…

  50. “Property does not try to stop from going to the gym or flip out when you don’t bring roses.”

    No, but property can certainly demand a great deal of money, and “flip out” if you don’t cut the grass (or at least, the neighbors will, in an HOA neighborhood).

    “Property does not divorce rape you. You can even sell property. Can you sell your wife? She is worthless.”

    I beg to differ. I was just divorced raped by property very recently. Owed the bank six figures more than I sold it for. And it was worth it. If you own nothing, you are unlikely to be divorced raped. When family (aka children) enter the picture, that’s the biggest limitation on freedom by far that will ever happen to anyone. Cost/benefit ratio applies.

  51. I’m surprised no one has commented on the graph in the original post. Take a look at the “employed childless men to employed childless women” graph. If we assume this graph roughly represents the entire childless men to childless women ratio, we see that 1) in the unskilled / blue collar world, there are about 2.6 women reproducing for every man, and 2) in the college educated world, men and women appear to be pair bonding. This fits Charles Murray’s model of social breakdown that he described in his book “coming apart”.

    For society, this means that most men are not reproducing, and most children are not going to have significant contact with their biological fathers. Perhaps this ratio will become more equal if the 25 to 34 year old range was expanded to include older men who might become fathers later. However, in the unskilled / blue collar world, it might not make that much of a difference to expand the age range.

    If my assumptions above are correct, we can expect even more social chaos in the future. Even if the some college category was included, the results are still skewed toward a very unequal ratio of women to men reproducing.

  52. The female impulse toward validation can first be seen in children. At Halloween, little girls gravitate toward princess costumes and little boys toward super heroes. These are the biological impulses that evolved on the Savannas. Any group that didn’t protect and provide for their women, would have been rubbed out by groups that did due to reproductive numbers. Any young woman who didn’t have the biological impulse to seek safety, protection, and resources from the group would have been less likely to have reproduced than women who did seek these things. This is the origin of the princess impulse. And any men who didn’t risk their lives to protect and provide for the group, would not have had the opportunity to bang the young women. This is the origin of the super hero impulse.

    It is a combination of both of these impulses that push a society in one direction, and only one direction. In dangerous resource scarce environments, women seek strong dominant men, and in safe resource abundant environments women seek the state. Chivalry and feminism are the same biological impulse expressed differently depending on the environment. The problem is feminism allows women to reproduce with a very small number of men. This creates the social chaos every neighborhood with large numbers of single moms experience. And there is only one outcome no matter which culture, race, or region allows unrestricted single moms.

  53. Was out on V-day with the OL. Mexican Restaurant. I got the mariachi band to play a few bars of La Cucaracha for me. No words. Too volatile. For the OL they did Elvis – Falling in Love With You. The OL was swooning.

    A server girl I had been eyeing all night (not ours – and the OL knew I was interested – I told her) came over to the table when the OL had a question. The server (cute red head early 20s) came over to my side of the table to talk to the OL.

    The OL was absolutely hot for me when we got home. The red head was a topic of conversation all the way home. The OL likes it (and hates it) when other girls show an interest. Especially young ones. She likes the validation. Hates the competition.

    Me? 72 and a bit crusty. Well maybe a lot crusty. Which says age doesn’t have a lot to do with it. I have been getting reactions like I did from the server girl (and better) since the OL and I started dating over 40 years ago.

    Validation is a powerful thing.

  54. “Can a person own property and be MGTOW? Or pets?”

    The question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, has been answered. It is the egg, and by a considerable margin. The tricky question is which descendent of junglefowl parents was the first chicken?*

    Even though genetic descent is quantized, the distinction between species is analog.

    Every man must decide for himself what limitations he can bear and which he finds necessary. You can declare yourself outlaw on the high seas, but that is also, by international law, declaring yourself fair game. The nations have decided that international law should favor the interests of nations. Go figure. The fundamental act of piracy is now simply not sailing under a nation’s standard.

    how authentic do you think someone who participates in these theatrical weddings is?

    “A ranch or farm or business could be more limiting on personal freedom than a spouse.”

    Thoreau noted in Walden that he had known many a man to have his life destroyed by inheriting a farm.

    ” . . . how authentic do you think someone who participates in these theatrical weddings is?”

    We went over this ground back when I laid out the basic framework for creating a “private”** marriage. State registration is necessary for the state to recognize a marriage in its courts, but not to form a perfectly valid marriage. If that were not so, most of your ancestors would be bastards. In the United States, state registration of a marriage was not a universal requirement for court recognition until after WWI.

    As the state contract currently favors the woman by a considerable margin, I question the sincerity of a woman who leads a blind fool down the aisle. The process of contracting under the business code will flush out such women, who likely bail because “the romance” has been destroyed.

    Marriage isn’t romantic. It’s a business deal, to determine the rules of inheritance.

    *The junglefowl is the bird closest to being a dinosaur.

    **A properly formed “private” marriage is not private. It is publicly declared. There are witnesses.

  55. ” . . . cute red head early 20s . . .”

    I knew that ex number two had bought in when she came up to me during after service church socializing and asked, “So. Who’s the redhead?”

  56. Bill Paxon has died. He was 61. As I would suspect, men my age remember his immortal lines as the cowardly in words but brave in action Private Hudson from Aliens.

    Private Hudson: [after the drop ship crash] Well, that’s great. That’s just fuckin’ great, man! Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We’re in some real pretty shit now, man!

    Private Hudson: That’s it, man. Game over, man. Game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?

    Some times when things have gone sideways in my life I would think of these lines. They would let me laugh at the misery of the situation, step outside of myself, and try to do something productive.

  57. I don’t often watch The Bachelor, but I do occasionally have to walk into the kitchen and reheat some fried chicken when my wife is watching it in the living room.

    Corrine gets booted by Nick cause she isn’t wife material and wouldn’t have any value after fucking her at all. And this is a contrived marriage search. Of course Nick didn’t have the red pill balls to tell her that, in fact, was true. “Nick told her that she didn’t and she shouldn’t regret anything that she did on the show — it just all came down to his feelings for the others.”

    So she goes all Fourth Stage Feminist in her sob speech in the limo hauling her out of there. Gonna do things to soothe her Ego and her Choices for now and for ever more. Never going to submit to the vision of a a man ever again. Good luck with that Corrine….

    Vanessa is going to win of course.

  58. @ Not Born This Morning

    “She is incapable of conceiving any perception of herself other than her own. She is utterly incapable of abstracting a perception of herself other than her own. Cannot see beyond the hood. Utterly trapped within herself.”

    So, so true, brother. Well said! A close female friend of mine is exactly like this (as are all females to be certain). She just cannot accept any criticism, often gets hysterical and always trys to turn it around and blame me for her faults, which she just can’t perceive anyway. It’s incredibly frustrating at times, but often I just can’t help myself wind her up so I can tell her a few home truths. She certainly was daddy’s precious little snowflake, which i’ve told her more than once. Her solipsism is of the charts.

    My current lover responds like a trained dog to my red pill alphaness, and is always ready for sex when i’m the man and let her know that she’s just my bitch…

    @ insanitybytes22 your moniker is certainly the truth, for you don’t have a clue, and shouldn’t even be on a men’s website…

  59. @Rugby11

    I think the problem with society, today, is so many want to chase the dream and so often they’re told it’s achievable. Nobody wants to hear they’ve got to work a 9 to 5 and save for what they want.

    It seems no one believes in hard work any more or the certainty that comes with it.

  60. Reading the OP and Practical Female Psychology: For the Practical Man. They use self-esteem and ego, could used interchangeably, then maybe there’s a nuance I’m missing.

    OP:

    “The idea that women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown is something I think the Red Pill community often takes for granted.”

    On the job I feel the entitlement, oh yes. Once they are off the clock, though, their vulnerabilities are evident. Easy enough, preferring an alpha connection, not beta…but let beta hang around.

    “The first is defining exactly what is contributing to women’s ego inflation. The second is how a woman is validated by the attention that contributes to it.”

    The ego inflation is double-edged. Yeah they’re getting affirmation, lots of it. 99% comes from guys they’d rather not date, thus it doesn’t satisfy. There’s quickly diminishing returns from that mile-wide, inch deep contribution. Does a woman care? IDK, I think subconsciously, yeah, they’d prefer something else, but the FI doesn’t give them helpful options, a path out. They’re biding their time, drifting, while posturing the Miss Independent ideal. The status is too seductive, compounded by social conventions for them to notice FI shoddiness.

    “This is not a competition with other men per se, but with the expected entitlements women’s egos and an entire feminine social order has convinced them is men’s duty to embody for them”

    During the weekend fight…before, the young lady had the constant attention of three dudes, not good enough…fight for me boys!…yet ended up talking to me directly, wanting to figure me out, my relationship, our dancing, all was bizarre, foreign to her. I told her, essentially, I was walking away, she knew I was coming right back for the car. She didn’t care.

    Per Franco’s Female Psychology, re: self esteem:

    “If she is LSE, she will giggle and become even more attracted to you. This is because the LSE woman has very chaotic and non-defined borders of the Ego, and they easily let strangers into their sphere of personal intimacy. On the other hand, an HSE woman will do something to try to stop you, because she will begin to feel some uneasiness. Caution: this does not mean that the HSE woman is not freeminded. Instead, this usually means that her self-esteem reacts to your attack on her core values by defending the borders of her intimacy.”

    HSE women I meet are seduced easy enough too though, requires a little more time, and not much more talent. The wealthy, sleek, expectant suburban mothers I meet are as sexual as any, especially in scenarios reminiscing peak sex years, booze and ASD applies as anywhere. Mom’s GNO last weekend: I chat the 6 girl table up re: the GNO possibilities, 50 SOG, hand lightly on a shoulder, point out something eccentric about one of them. They loved it and when leaving, all cutesy snark at me which I yelled, “You’re dyin’ for more, I know! Don’t forget get me babes!” Laughs, smiles.

    Earlier same day, college campus, young sleek things (and fatties) everywhere, I’m jogging. It’s damp, I open 3 objectively pretty girls re: the weather, how it’s flatting their hair, tsk, tsk, ask them re: blow dryers in their purses…

    I had all stop, smile, talk about their hair, they were playing with their purses, one even looked in hers. They all grabbed at their long hair talking as long as I coaxed the chat. Not one was upset, blew me off. Huh.

    These are all FI dipped, entitled women, HSE women, egotistical women, stopped for sexually charged dinner conversation, rainy day talk…with a complete stranger.

  61. Hi Rollo,

    I have been away from the blog for some time but always enjoy reading the red pill’s disection of prevailing events like the Trump election.

    Perhaps like we saw in Trump’s election there will be a push back to traditional masculinity and it’s values, albeit a silent one.

    All in all I always keep coming back to your blog for the basics which help us all, like mental point of origin, the mechanics of women and frame, alpha and beta. Obama is far more beta than Trump!!!!

    I hope to slowly pass the core concepts from Tha Rational Male on to my son it will save him a lot of sweat.

    All the best Dan

  62. “As women’s egos and self-aggrandizement expand, so too does the expectation of entitlement to an even more aggrandized male expand. The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.”

    Powerful words right there Rollo. It’s not new that the modern woman is oft deluded and buried in self-aggrandizing beliefs. Game is perhaps the only way to circumvent that.

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: