Of Ego and Choice

ego

Last week I ran across a thread on the ‘Purple Pill Debate’ sub on Reddit that called into question the Red Pill idea that women’s egos have become overblown. This “debate” sub is essentially a forum dedicated to Blue Pill hacks expressing their dubious confusion about various topics discussed on the Red Pill sub so I wont grace the forum with a link here. That said, it is an interesting forum to peruse when looking for examples of how a lot of the fundamentals of Red Pill awareness are deliberately misconstrued. The Blue Pill mindset will make great efforts to insulate itself from unignorable Red Pill truths that threaten to break comforting ego-investments. Those efforts begin with a willful misunderstanding (and later denial) of Red Pill premises.

I’ve explored the topic of women’s ego inflation in various post on this blog, but truth be told I’ve had this more thorough examination sitting in my drafts folder for a while now. The idea that women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown is something I think the Red Pill community often takes for granted. It’s fairly easy to see both online and in real life. I resisted fleshing this post out for a while because it presents the risk of being perceived as some gratuitous attack on all-women-being-like-that in their ego aggrandizements, so I’ve been content to just allude to this phenomenon in my posts.

It’s easy to throw red meat to the manosphere in this respect since women’s inflated egos are something most factions of the ‘sphere almost unanimously agree on. And of course, simply doing so makes the man pointing it out, by default, a misogynist. Then, either the mud gets slung by indignant tumblrinasor his points are perfunctorily dismissed and the conversation ends.

The Purple Pill “Debate” thread was simple enough, but such misguidance needs to be:

A narrative that is constantly pushed is the notion that the female ego is inflated from a constant barrage of male attention, thus leading women to have an inflated sense of value.

Attention and offers of sex from random strange males is not validating in most cases. Male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. To put it into a more crude term “dick is cheap”. Being offered free sex from a man that is not attractive to you is the equivalent of being offered a free bag of feces. It is free and it still might have some value, but I am not going to take it.

The whole idea that any of this is extremely validating is farcical and incorrect.

This premise is misguided in two respects. The first is defining exactly what is contributing to women’s ego inflation. The second is how a woman is validated by the attention that contributes to it. I’ve written extensively on the psychological effects attention has on women. Attention is the coin of the realm in girl-world. Women use attention as a form of currency with other women, which in turn establishes peer status among women’s social groupings:

The capacity to attract and hold attention denotes social rank within the peer clutch. The more attractive the girl, the more popular she becomes and the more influence she wields. This isn’t to say that any particular female is cognizant of this. However, when ostracized from the collective, this capacity for attracting attention in a high degree makes her despised. The attention can still be beneficial for affirmation (i.e. realized jealousy), it’s just that the intent that has changed.

Thus, women use attention not only for their own affirmation, individually and collectively, but also to do combat with each other. Far more damaging than physical fighting is the long term psychological impact of denying this reinforcement, or better still, delegitimizing or disqualifying a girl/woman’s capacity to attract this attention. Combine this with a woman’s natural, and innately higher agency to communicate both verbally and non-verbally (i.e covert communications) and you can see the potential this has in damaging a rival. This might explain a woman’s natural propensity to gossip. When a woman attacks the respectability and character of another (“she’s such a slut”), in essence, she is assaulting the woman’s agency for garnering attention by delegitimizing it.

The first misdirection in this thread is that attention only comes in one form that is ‘validating’ for women. It is a mistake to assume that male attention is all that contributes to women’s validation. My guess is that the original poster was male and trying to wrap his head around what form of attention ought to be validating from a male perspective. I say this because this mistake is also a common one amongst recovering Betas considering MGTOW. They often think their case is hopeless because women are so far removed from them due to all the “incredible amount of male attention” they receive online and in real life.

From this respect I can understand the OP’s point. Attention and ‘offers’ of sex – tacit or direct – from random strange males is not validating in most cases. With the proper incentive, male attention and offers for sex are so easy to come by, they hold next to or even absolutely no value. From the perspective of male attention, the (I think accurate) presumption is that unless a man is perceived as Hypergamously optimal his attention is worthless in ‘validating’ a woman’s ego.

The term “validation” is easy to mold to whatever definition a man or woman might find convenient with regard to affirming one’s ego. In a Red Pill aware sense this validation needs to translate into some sort of reinforcing of a person’s self-perception of their sexual market value (SMV). On the ‘Man Up’ side of things the perception is one that men ought to find some esoteric source of inner strength and purpose to find ‘validation’ for their egos, while avoiding the idea that how many women he sleeps with or the ‘quality’ of the woman he’s banging might contribute to ‘validation’.

It’s funny how Blue Pill (and a few Red Pill) critics will foster the idea that the only reason men learn Game is because they’re “validation seeking“, but yet they resist the idea that women’s egos would be similarly validated by the “incredible amount of male attention” they believe even the most mundane of women is capable of generating.

However, the OP is asking the wrong question. Women’s egos are not inflated by the value of men’s attention, but rather the perception of an unending abundance of prospective men. An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. A lot gets made about the influence of “thirsty” guys on women, but the only value they represent is a Buffer against women ever having any personal insight about their ego valuation. Thirsty guys only serve to convince a girl she has options and therefore leisure to demand a better-than-merited Hypergamous option (i.e. apex fallacy Alphas).

Feeding the Beast

Recently Petapixel had a not-so-funny photo exposé of the dutiful Betas behind the ego-validating shots of girls on Instagram. The complicity of the average Beta male in the feeding of the female ego is never to be underestimated. Not the least of which because they are unaware of their active participation in creating a generation of woman who will have nothing to do with him while she enjoys her peak SMV years, but also to complain about his inadequacies of meeting the requirements her ego demands of men when she finds it necessary to lock down a ‘marriageable’ man. He is the architect of his own failings, but it seemed like she’d like him better if he took the Instagram shots of her at the time – the ones she would use to advertise her SMV to the Alphas who she knew were the only men worth taking a picture for.

At no other time in the history of humanity has it been easier for a woman to validate her ego or (falsely) evaluate her SMV. But that validation isn’t based on quality, but rather perceived quantity. It’s not just male attention that contributes to this. A constant chorus of ‘go grrrl’ supporters, endless Fempowerment memes and special social dispensations since before a girl enters preschool make up a far greater influences for ego-inflation than male attention. If anything girls are taught from a very early age not to value male attention (in abundance or lack) as a source of validation or confidence. This returns us to the nebulous ‘inner strength and purpose’ meme, albeit with the Strong Independent Woman® branding.

In contemporary society women’s attention and indignation needs are as ubiquitously satisfied as men’s need for sexual release (i.e. internet porn) is . This, of course, leads the larger whole of women to perceive their social and SMV status to be far greater than it actually is – and when that inflated SMV is challenged by the real world there are countless social conventions already established to insulate women and simultaneously convince men that women’s perceived status should be the fantasy they believe it is.

It’s important to keep this in mind because men’s adaptive sexual strategies key on women’s self-impressions of their SMV (and often personal worth). This then forms a cycle wherein men’s attentions for women’s inflated sense of self-worth become the benchmark for future validation of it.

Hypergamy predisposes women to evaluate male attention on various levels. The attention of random strangers offering sex to her (even if this is her imagined state) is still attention, and while not as validating as the genuine sexual interests of a guy she perceives as Alpha, it’s still contributing to her overall sense of self. The quantity of attention skews the perception of her own desirability. Women rarely complain about the attentions of ‘friend zoned’ Beta orbiters – even when they know these men are playing what they think is a worthwhile ‘long game’. What women bemoan is a lack of Alpha, Hypergamously acceptable, men’s attentions. What we hear are complaints of quality, not quantity.

Why is it that women are distressed over a deficit of “marriageable” men?

Have a read of this Brookings Institute study

This data is nothing new. Compare this to Newsweek’s 1986 survey of women’s “chances” of marrying a suitable man.

As I’ve stated many times over, Hypergamy is founded on an evolved, biological-level doubt. Doubt that a woman will ever consolidate on an optimized (better-than-SMV-merited) attachment with a Hypergamously ideal male. Doubt that the male she consolidated on is in fact the ‘best she could do’.

The primary reason the anxiety of finding a ‘marriageable man’ is persistent in women is because they believe that their due is to marry a man of “equitable” value to what they perceive themselves to be. That self-perception of value is the result of a woman’s conditioned beliefs over the course of her lifetime. The popular response to this is that women have “made themselves better than ever and it’s listless men who aren’t keeping pace” in respect to education, career advancement, etc. The evaluation of self-worth for women (at least in the sense popularized by the Feminine Imperative) is ostensibly meant to be founded on criteria for attraction which has conventionally been a standard for male to female attraction. But notice that it is once again men who must shoulder a greater burden of performance to even be considered “equitable” in self-worth to make him ‘marriageable’ for women.

The truth is that Hypergamy always seeks a better-than-deserved arrangement when it comes to the men women want to breed with and share parental investment with. The anxiety is one born of women’s doubt in their capacity to optimize Hypergamy as contrasted to what their socially-inflated egos lead them to believe they’re entitled to with men. As women’s egos and self-aggrandizement expand, so too does the expectation of entitlement to an even more aggrandized male expand. The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.

Again, as a solution, we have a plea from the Blue Pill world for men to Man Up and accommodate this exaggeration. Women’s ego-aggrandizement is nothing that can’t be solved by Blue Pill men’s more invested efforts in appeasing it. Almost 7 years ago Roosh wrote an essay on what he expected from women (and it’s Game implications) in the future. It turned out to be quite prophetic, but in this essay he made this prediction:

Game Plus Fame Will Be More Important Than Anything

It doesn’t have to be national fame, but you must be known for something with a reputation that precedes you. You must have a YouTube channel with millions of views. You must be a proprietor of a hipster butcher shop. You must be a popular writer, artist, or musician. You must be nightclub promoter or DJ. You must be a competitive skateboarder. Your must be the notorious editor of a cupcake newsletter. In a culture where a million people are “famous,” you’ll have to work your ass off for scraps if you’re not. Nurture your own style and niche and then leverage that to get pussy. Game will always have its use, but game plus fame will be the qualities that tomorrow’s Casanova possess. Otherwise you’ll be approaching all day and night to fuck a 6 who stops calling you after a couple bangs. You must have the complete package to get the hottest girls, with game being only the first ability of a multi-level game warrior. Guys without game will simply not get laid, not even with ugly girls.

While I would disagree with the assessment that ‘fame’ is a prerequisite element to get the lay today, I do agree with the idea that the social proof that comes with genuine ‘fame’ status is now a vital part of what makes for male attention that women perceive as validating of their egos. As Roosh implies here, that fame need not be anything more than the contextual variety, and I’d also add that the perception of fame, or even the perception of a potential for fame, is now a required element for a man women would consider ‘marriageable’.

From an Alpha Fucks, short-term, ovulatory phase Hypergamy perspective, a man can get by on Game, looks, confidence, etc., but for anything more than this men are in a competition. This is not a competition with other men per se, but with the expected entitlements women’s egos and an entire feminine social order has convinced them is men’s duty to embody for them.

In our brave new world of instant global communication, social media and the ego aggrandizing influence it has on women is exactly what anyone should expect it would be. When we look at the progress of the social and legislative repercussions that the influence of unfettered Hypergamy has had on our social order should we really be surprised that women would use social media as a vehicle for expressing and advancing their sexual strategy?

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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walawala
walawala
5 years ago

Female Dark Triad Traits… seem bent on emasculating men whereas male Dark Triad traits seem bent on raising a man’s status.

One common female Dark Triad trait is a total lack of empathy and accountability giving them free reign to tree branch.

I’ve had at least 3 girls deliberately try to seduce friends of mine…and play it off as “they’re just friends…”

When I walked away or ignored them…whatever budding romance they were initiating quickly dries up and they begin chasing me again.

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

“One common female Dark Triad trait is a total lack of empathy and accountability giving them free reign to tree branch.” “She admitted that she made up the allegation of sexual assault against (the football players) because it was the first thing that came to mind and she didn’t want to lose (another male student) as a friend and potential boyfriend. She stated that she believed when (the other male student) heard the allegation it would make him angry and sympathetic to her,” the affidavit said. Yovino could face up to five years in prison if convicted of second-degree false… Read more »

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@Fleezer …. And that’s the rub….even after 5 years of adopting the Red Pill….there are still times when I’m completely blind-sided or perhaps underestimated the vitriol of a woman… It’s the shit-test that goes way too far and in cases like the one you cite leads into situations that cause them legal consequences. But they never think of that and there is always some white knight beta orbiter ready to give them the benefit of the doubt… One of my friends told me words to the effect that well, she was throwing herself at him but he was resisting. I… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago
rugby11
5 years ago

Ego and media and social stress

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@Scribblerg “But on the other hand, I think women also see things differently and sometimes it isn’t about “truth”, it’s about one’s POV. And when I try a bit to see a woman’s point of view, I find it quite helpful. What seems like a lie suddenly doesn’t look that way. As well, they will value hurt feelings over the facts and while I don’t like that, it’s just as “true” to them as rationality seems to me. What’s most important is to depersonalize it. It’s not about you, it’s them. It’s just their adaptive way of being. No reason… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

Sometimes a lie is just a lie.
Don’t have to get all irksomely splainy ’bout it.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“Her irrational behaviour and irksome mode of speech is the strategy for achieving this.” Thanks for mentioning it so. I had an epiphany last night. Upthread we’re talking about dark triad women. I mention that a difficult woman, blah, blah, fun to break. Sweet, sweet, anon. You truly are beautiful, don’t change one bit. Well anon describes I’ve never met one, that’s fortunate, as the emotional ramifications of such is powerful. Yeah, but the point here is anon default reply was cat-style emotion. In a way: Ooh…you don’t understand the mystical power of the dark triad…hannibal lecter in a pant… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@EhIntellect Good insights. And good skills in keeping your masculine Frame. And realizing as long as she trusts you (esp. your alpha Frame and you vision), she’s OK with “you” being just out of reach like in the female romance novels. What she is doing is using her masculine, dominant communication words (dog words) to test you.(just checking if your congruent and authentic and not still beta). Her masculine critical thinking skills that she used back when you were beta are empowering to her. (She earned those running-the-household skills fair and square while the children were being raised.) More so… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

Eh, have a great weekend too. 🙂 Had an interesting conversation last night. A couple of ladies were discussing the benefits of all-girl schools for their daughters. They said it made all the difference and their daughters benefited greatly. They left with a great deal more confidence and their grades improved. I noted that girls were horrible to me in school and I couldn’t imagine being in a female only environment every day with no hope of escape. They said it was the same for their girls. Other girls were horrible to them, but as soon as they left the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

A not quite so angry MGTOW on women lying:

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@anon

I myself have been stalked

When girls do it to boys, it’s called “chasing”.

Changing a couple of letters:

I myself have been a stalker

anon
anon
5 years ago

Changing one letter:
“I myself have been a talker”

gregg
gregg
5 years ago

Its not just the problem of “overblown” egos. “Not the least of which because they are unaware of their active participation in creating a generation of woman who will have nothing to do with him while she enjoys her peak SMV years, but also to complain about his inadequacies of meeting the requirements her ego demands of men when she finds it necessary to lock down a ‘marriageable’ man. He is the architect of his own failings…” This is the problem! I helped hundreds of men with divorces but RARELY I witnessed that those very men, who themsleves were victims… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Gregg

We have white knights beta men supplicating and providing for women, we have all those “womanizers” feeding ego of women with continuous mocking in bars and streets, we have politicians passing laws protecting women so that women elect them…we have…

We have this… and it undoes all the grand plans…

http://i5.lisimg.com/8793835/280full.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEeId35POqe/

As soon as a 5’10 34-24-35 struts into the scene… all bets are off.

Just Saying
Just Saying
5 years ago

that women’s egos have become overblown. They are overblown because men made it that way. Sorry guys – you’ve done it to yourself. But there is one redemption – the guy that doesn’t play by the book becomes THE one that MUST be gotten. Now, I’m nothing special – just a guy that doesn’t accept sh*t from women. Now I have a band, and am in front of lots of women. The reason for that is because I understood that is the fastest, easiest way to get women in bed with little effort. That’s worked well for me – but… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@JustSaying – glad you have found what works for you, run with it!

Can’t say I’m a fan of fathering children with no regard to their welfare. If being accountable and responsible for your choices are masculine, then you’ve only joined the feminine with your actions with that. Absolving yourself and blaming others is very much weak and feminine.

Fuck them all you want and do it on your terms. Leave the innocents out of it.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Gregg Men just “dont care” when it comes to sufferings of other men. This just isn’t true. Fuck, man, look what Rollo is doing with this blog. And the commenters. Now it’s true that men don’t always share their experience with other men. Men used to share more, but the rise of homosexuality may have contributed to a reluctance of straight men to bond with other men. And men often aren’t in the home of young lads growing up because of court orders. And men are marrying later, so granddads aren’t sharing so much with young men. Boys often aren’t… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“This just isn’t true. Fuck, man, look what Rollo is doing with this blog. And the commenters.” I’d nominate Rollo’s essay Tribes as the best of 2016. https://therationalmale.com/2016/05/15/tribes/ I never enjoyed women so much as when I developed solid relationship’s in doing things with a core group of other men that were highly invested in the welfare of the other men in the group. And that investment was altruistic even if it appeared to be self interest. It also embodied the covert ties between mentors and one’s that sought mentor’s in a proper fashion so as to reap the rewards… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Just Saying:

Yeah. Step up and be a Real Man(tm). Provide. That’ll show those pussies you’re not a pussy. No FI trap for you. No sir, you’re too smart for that. You have a ball and chain and you know how to use it.

Dr. Zipper:

Put.Down.The.PraegerU. Go directly to The Best of TRM Year One.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

fuck you kfg I say be responsible for your actions and choices. If kids aren’t your thing, then don’t have any. I never said ‘provide’ because FI wants you too. Provide because being a man involves taking risks (like shooting your load into some ONS) and living with the consequences. Shirking and thinking only of what feels good *now* with no regards to collateral damage (near and long term) is very feminine and we have reams of posts and comments bemoaning that very thing. Hypocrisy isn’t a step up. At least women were born that way, men have a choice.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Dr. Zipper: “I say . . .”

And Just Saying says something else. I understand that Deltas have problems with Alphas. You two get in the octagon and work out your differences.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@kfg – thanks coach, we’ll take it from here

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Now these girls like to party!! Look at them, Jesus. In Brazil, for Carnival. Or what’s left of it…

comment image

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Ollie – Little reminder, women are actually human beings. I can empathize with women but not be BP or submit. You seemed to have missed my point entirely, and i can’t say I actually even understand yours. How being empathetic leads to regret is some weird shit you made up in your head. And I didn’t claim women value emotions over the real world, I said they value emotions over rationality. But even then, I’m just skimming the surface. Being in sales I know that all people make buying decisions emotionally and rationalize them, and check them at the margins… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Gregg – Hi. Gotta say that I think you are pretty confused. “Look at the small minority of men who actually do what may help – MGTOW. This minority tells women – either you behave like I want or you can go and fuck yourself.” Uhhm, no. MGTOW don’t deal with women. If you are dealing with women, you aren’t MGTOW. Game skilled, Red Pill men understand that they are bio-programmed to desire hot sex with nubile women as frequently as they can. The go about their business accordingly. Once an RP man becomes his own MPO, women fall into… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@scrib

I’m so tired of this BS being recycled.

I’ll get right on making More Shite and Piling the new BS higher and Deeper. 😉

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@Scribblerg

You’re paying attention to what women say and not what they do.

To avoid a long discussion, would you say empathy leads towards your mental point of origin or away from it?

rugby11
5 years ago
SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ ScribblerG and Ollie “Little reminder, women are actually human beings. I can empathize with women but not be BP or submit. You seemed to have missed my point entirely, and i can’t say I actually even understand yours.” I can’t understand Ollie’s point or contex either. “To avoid a long discussion, would you say empathy leads towards your mental point of origin or away from it? I say that question is either a non sequitur or irrelevant. Empathy and Love are not verboten virtues in Red Pill (it’s just that it is rare for a man to be confident… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

re above and deep conversion:

The market is the market. Value is determined by bidding in the market. Like it or not.

Alpha is rare enough and desirable enough that women will pay for it and think they stole it.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“The market is the market. Value is determined by bidding in the market. Like it or not.”

I like it. Even if you are talking about Game in the single market, the same holds true in relationship Game. If it’s a market and/or a Game, I’m going to be (and am) good at it.

The most job secure drug reps that call on me have an intrinsically good product to market.

KL
KL
5 years ago

It is ordinary to have 64% more single men, and 74% more employed single men. But it is a marriage crisis if we have 15% less single male college grads than comparable women. Unemployed, uneducated men are disposable.

Is it a crisis when there are more obese women than obese men?
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db131.htm

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@Gregg

I do agree with your MGTOW sentiment. It would solve a lot of problems. The trouble as you’ve pointed out is most men won’t do it. It’s woman or bust for them.
A man I think, should have an all encompassing goal in his life. Something that makes the accomplishment about him and no one else.

gregg
gregg
5 years ago

Scrib…maybe we have problems with definitions. Mgtow for me means simply man who does not buy feminine frame and lives under his rules. Free man. He pursues ‘his own way’ not that one prescribed by feminine imperative. He might fuck women or not, does not matter..but the definition is that he has his frame which is more important for him as the women. Just sayin here is an example of mgtow man. I myself am one of them…living under my rules and fucking women under my rules, running company and my life under my rules. Freedom…this is mgtow under my… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@SJF The mental point of origin and empathy are both rooted in our psychology. One is a societal convention, the other a natural disposition. This insight was alluded to in Rollo’s mental point of origin essay. My point (if it wasn’t clear already) was showing undue empathy is the antithesis of the mental point of origin. The MPO is a goal state for all who are red pill aware, because it represents the best foot foward principle, as a matter of rote. Any other mind set will lead you to revisiting a decision at a later date and questioning it.… Read more »

Shiva
Shiva
5 years ago

@Scrib

“You can’t just make MGTOW mean whatever you want. Every RP man is putting himself first and no longer serving women – that’s the definition of Red Pill, MGTOW cannot claim that.”

Neither can you.
Red pill is the basis of MGTOW. Anything beyond that is flexible.
You keep constructing strawmen arguments.

This man remains fixated with MGTOW because he was a tier zero MGTOW and has a buyer’s remorse.
No use arguing terminologies with this broken record.

rugby11
5 years ago

Everything is a solution somehow someway
https://soundcloud.com/nirvana/rape-me?in=nirvana/sets/in-utero-20th-anniversary

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Ollie I just disagree with your self view in inter-personal relationships. I think your paradigm is just too simplistic. I’m sure you have it figured out for you. (But since you have never defined who you are (based on your life circumstance) for for us who you are discussing things with that confusion will persist. Empathy is a socialized feature. Children aren’t born with it. Some psychologically unhealthy and not properly socialized mothers never have it for their children. A man can keep ultimate frame and have himself as his own point of mental origin and still have empathy and… Read more »

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

Watched the first forty-four minutes of the video. Great stuff for the novice of psychological battle! (On the good guy’s side.)

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

I hope you all watch that video in full. It was excellent. The only thing I would fault him in is his faith in “private marriage.” He put more skepticism into the institution than he did his marriage partner. The institution can be trusted if the person you marry can. Mark and I were married, alone, in the Mohave Desert by a kind, if somewhat bewildered, officiant. Despite a variety of obstacles, we have maintained our joy in one another for almost four years now. That is the kind of mental toughness you need to defeat some of the conditions… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago

How Social Constructionism Created the Sex Addiction Model
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jr9
On Meaning, Identity Politics and Bias in the Academy — An Interview with Clay Routledge
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jrp

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@Rollo “I think the truth is that every RP aware man can’t help but be MGTOW by order of degree. This is one reason I persist in reaching out to that community on Reddit and some other forums. If you’re RP aware you can’t help but ‘go your own way’ if only for the fact that you can’t live in the BP paradigm you did before. The distinction is how far you go in going your own way.” I agree with your sentiment. A man is either going ‘his way’ or ‘somebody else’s way’. This is at the core of… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Niko Chosky . . . I think he had a hard time with the more militant ‘girls are evil’ MGTOWs.” They threatened to go full SJW tactics on him, destroying his RL reputation and career. Some others felt they were under sufficient threat that they went full Internet ghost and have never come back. “I think the truth is that every RP aware man can’t help but be MGTOW by order of degree.” However you wish to define MGTOW, the core of it is being Red Pill aware and your own Mental Point of Origin. Everything else derives from that.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“A MGTOW is in the driver’s seat of his life. Whether a woman is sitting beside him, going along for the ride, is immaterial. What’s important is to be one who’s driving.”

There ya go.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Brain skip. Oops:

“It is generally agreed outside of AVfM (which tried to co-opt MGTOW as an AVfM brand and feminize it) . . . ”

. . . that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@kfg – “that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.” That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive. At some level I agree but I can’t articulate why; something about being in a legal arrangement brings in a 3rd party (the state) with powers to make a man do stuff and not actually be able to truly go his own way. That aside, is there something else as to why can’t a married man be “driving?” Like Blaximus seems to be doing? He fits my definition of… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive.” Right. ” . . . something about being in a legal arrangement brings in a 3rd party (the state) with powers to make a man do stuff and not actually be able to truly go his own way.” Right again. “That aside, is there something else as to why can’t a married man be “driving?” Like Blaximus seems to be doing?” And it is from Blaximus, Sentient and SJF that I would expect objection, and for them to use the same arguments as did AVfM. i.e., they are doing as… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@dr zipper “That means that MGTOW and being married are mutually exclusive.” This was @kfg’s full comment… “In MGTOW 2.0 celibacy is certainly under the MGTOW umbrella and by many considered the highest attainment, but not the definition. It is generally agreed outside of AVfM (which tried to co-opt MGTOW as an AVfM brand and feminize it) that the only true “litmus test” of MGTOW is marriage. Married men can be fellow travellers, but not MGTOW.” I got the sense that @kfg disagrees with the assessment that MGTOW and marriage are necessarily mutually exclusive. My personal litmus is simple… “are… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I got the sense that @kfg disagrees with the assessment that MGTOW and marriage are necessarily mutually exclusive.” That is just me trying to lay things out relatively objectively. I do accept it as per my next comment. “My experience with the ‘hardcore’ MGTOWs has been they are not as nearly in their Frame or their MPO as they claim to be.” Scribbler and I agree on one MGTOW point: there are many professing to be MGTOW who are nothing of the kind. There are also many who I will aver are MGTOW, but are anything but paragons of the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

I note that there are YouTube MGTOW channels that follow a certain trajectory: They appear and post a number of really good Red Pill/MGTOW videos, but then post one whose theme is “Look, I’m tired of talking about women. I’m a man, going his own way, so from now on I’m going to be posting about the things I’m doing on my way.” Then they’ll post one or three videos about things they’re into. Then the channel goes dormant or gets taken down. Because they’re too busy going their own way and they are involved with the “communities” that are… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@KFG “And it is from Blaximus, Sentient and SJF that I would expect objection, and for them to use the same arguments as did AVfM. i.e., they are doing as they wish, therefore they are going their own way.” Can’t bait me with that one KFG, as I am in total agreement with what you said and the way you phrased it. I gave up on wishing for freedom back in 1977 when I realized that boots on the ground experiences were going to be a Game (including constraints–rules and regulations– on how that game is played) and if so,… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

kfg & chump – thanks for the responses, more for me to chew on

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

My want is more of a physical and psychological need for structure. And that’s a lot based on my INTJ psychological makeup including strengths and weaknesses.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

: “Can’t bait me with that one KFG . . .”

Not so much baiting as heading off at the pass, so I don’t have to go through the whole “what I meant was . . .” dance later on.

stack3
stack3
5 years ago

My wife reading memoirs. She is currently reading Mygen Kelly’s. Occasionally, she’ll read me things to me. Last night, she says, “Here’s how women are,” and began reading… I was at Fox for ~2yrs when some female Fox colleagues stood in the hallway, just outside her office, making plans for Happy Hour. No one came in to invite me… I thought we liked each other. That night I went to my women’s group (a therapy group of 8 women) and told them what happened. I wanted sympathy, instead I got… honesty. One woman said, “I wouldn’t have invited you either.”… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
5 years ago

I’ve tried to say on many an occasion that if a man is Red Pill aware there’s no going back to the Blue Pill ignorance he was comforted by before. A one way ticket. I’ve never been in prison but I have a couple of friends that have. This is fairly common knowledge but they confirmed it, saying some men, a short while after getting out will intentionally do something to get back in. The outside world has become too unstructured, confusing, and difficult to live in for these men. A sudden slap of Red Pill awareness on a Blue… Read more »

cheupez
5 years ago

@kate
I watched the whole bloody thing. I did not know about private marriage, but it sounds like something western men should have adapted many, many years ago. Considering that this guy would probably still be legally married to that “creature” and bleeding money like nonsense in divorce court if he had entered in to signed-license-marriage, why would you fault him for his faith in private marriage?

anon
anon
5 years ago

“But freedom isn’t defined by what you are doing, it is defined by what you can do, the available degrees of freedom. When you are travelling through a tunnel you are doing so voluntarily, but you are doing so voluntarily because that’s all you can voluntarily do. The degree of freedom to pull over and take a nap in a park in not available. To move the frame to one where there is less emotional charge, I find my MGTOW style cramped simply by owning a house. It places me in a subservient position and perpetually in financial debt to… Read more »

cheupez
5 years ago

Property does not try to stop from going to the gym or flip out when you don’t bring roses. Property does not divorce rape you. You can even sell property. Can you sell your wife? She is worthless.

Kate
Kate
5 years ago

he he ☺ Because I feel the underlying mistake is believing that the any kind of marriage contract is going to protect you from who a person is or who they could become. Having a different kind of marriage still did not save him from the emotional damage she was able to cause. But I do see your point in that not having a legal marriage saved him from standard divorce. I do have to wonder how much authority your marriage has though if not legal. For instance, would it be easier for a partner to rationalize adultery by saying,… Read more »

Kate
Kate
5 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Agreed. That is part of what I liked about his talk.

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Property does not try to stop from going to the gym or flip out when you don’t bring roses.” No, but property can certainly demand a great deal of money, and “flip out” if you don’t cut the grass (or at least, the neighbors will, in an HOA neighborhood). “Property does not divorce rape you. You can even sell property. Can you sell your wife? She is worthless.” I beg to differ. I was just divorced raped by property very recently. Owed the bank six figures more than I sold it for. And it was worth it. If you own… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
5 years ago

I think it’s funny how the likes are being poured into a dog-bowl.

Radium
Radium
5 years ago

I’m surprised no one has commented on the graph in the original post. Take a look at the “employed childless men to employed childless women” graph. If we assume this graph roughly represents the entire childless men to childless women ratio, we see that 1) in the unskilled / blue collar world, there are about 2.6 women reproducing for every man, and 2) in the college educated world, men and women appear to be pair bonding. This fits Charles Murray’s model of social breakdown that he described in his book “coming apart”. For society, this means that most men are… Read more »

Radium
Radium
5 years ago

The female impulse toward validation can first be seen in children. At Halloween, little girls gravitate toward princess costumes and little boys toward super heroes. These are the biological impulses that evolved on the Savannas. Any group that didn’t protect and provide for their women, would have been rubbed out by groups that did due to reproductive numbers. Any young woman who didn’t have the biological impulse to seek safety, protection, and resources from the group would have been less likely to have reproduced than women who did seek these things. This is the origin of the princess impulse. And… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Was out on V-day with the OL. Mexican Restaurant. I got the mariachi band to play a few bars of La Cucaracha for me. No words. Too volatile. For the OL they did Elvis – Falling in Love With You. The OL was swooning. A server girl I had been eyeing all night (not ours – and the OL knew I was interested – I told her) came over to the table when the OL had a question. The server (cute red head early 20s) came over to my side of the table to talk to the OL. The OL… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Can a person own property and be MGTOW? Or pets?” The question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, has been answered. It is the egg, and by a considerable margin. The tricky question is which descendent of junglefowl parents was the first chicken?* Even though genetic descent is quantized, the distinction between species is analog. Every man must decide for himself what limitations he can bear and which he finds necessary. You can declare yourself outlaw on the high seas, but that is also, by international law, declaring yourself fair game. The nations have decided that international… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . cute red head early 20s . . .”

I knew that ex number two had bought in when she came up to me during after service church socializing and asked, “So. Who’s the redhead?”

If-I-Fell
If-I-Fell
5 years ago

Bill Paxon has died. He was 61. As I would suspect, men my age remember his immortal lines as the cowardly in words but brave in action Private Hudson from Aliens. Private Hudson: [after the drop ship crash] Well, that’s great. That’s just fuckin’ great, man! Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We’re in some real pretty shit now, man! Private Hudson: That’s it, man. Game over, man. Game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do? Some times when things have gone sideways in my life I would think of… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago

Ego and meditation
http://wp.me/p1kXHF-8s

rugby11
5 years ago

Ego and the body
http://wp.me/p3aTD-9J7

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I don’t often watch The Bachelor, but I do occasionally have to walk into the kitchen and reheat some fried chicken when my wife is watching it in the living room. Corrine gets booted by Nick cause she isn’t wife material and wouldn’t have any value after fucking her at all. And this is a contrived marriage search. Of course Nick didn’t have the red pill balls to tell her that, in fact, was true. “Nick told her that she didn’t and she shouldn’t regret anything that she did on the show — it just all came down to his… Read more »

Jim
Jim
5 years ago

@ Not Born This Morning “She is incapable of conceiving any perception of herself other than her own. She is utterly incapable of abstracting a perception of herself other than her own. Cannot see beyond the hood. Utterly trapped within herself.” So, so true, brother. Well said! A close female friend of mine is exactly like this (as are all females to be certain). She just cannot accept any criticism, often gets hysterical and always trys to turn it around and blame me for her faults, which she just can’t perceive anyway. It’s incredibly frustrating at times, but often I… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@Rugby11

I think the problem with society, today, is so many want to chase the dream and so often they’re told it’s achievable. Nobody wants to hear they’ve got to work a 9 to 5 and save for what they want.

It seems no one believes in hard work any more or the certainty that comes with it.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Reading the OP and Practical Female Psychology: For the Practical Man. They use self-esteem and ego, could used interchangeably, then maybe there’s a nuance I’m missing. OP: “The idea that women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown is something I think the Red Pill community often takes for granted.” On the job I feel the entitlement, oh yes. Once they are off the clock, though, their vulnerabilities are evident. Easy enough, preferring an alpha connection, not beta…but let beta hang around. “The first is defining exactly what is contributing to women’s ego inflation. The second is how a woman… Read more »

D Man
D Man
5 years ago

Hi Rollo, I have been away from the blog for some time but always enjoy reading the red pill’s disection of prevailing events like the Trump election. Perhaps like we saw in Trump’s election there will be a push back to traditional masculinity and it’s values, albeit a silent one. All in all I always keep coming back to your blog for the basics which help us all, like mental point of origin, the mechanics of women and frame, alpha and beta. Obama is far more beta than Trump!!!! I hope to slowly pass the core concepts from Tha Rational… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago
urodenitram
1 year ago

“As women’s egos and self-aggrandizement expand, so too does the expectation of entitlement to an even more aggrandized male expand. The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.”

Powerful words right there Rollo. It’s not new that the modern woman is oft deluded and buried in self-aggrandizing beliefs. Game is perhaps the only way to circumvent that.

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