
This week we had an interesting situation arise in the comment threads. A new(?) reader, Mitch, dropped in to recount his affair with a Ukrainian woman he’d become enamored with, emphasis mine:
I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.”
Full stop. Whenever a man even casually mentions a woman as ‘the ONE‘ you know he’s still clinging to his Blue Pill, feminine-primary conditioning. This is your first signal of a man’s mindset and is a glaring Beta Tell.
Next Mitch moves on to qualify the object of his, still unmet, ONEitis:
The biggest difference between these women and western women are three things: 1) They have a strong desire to find “their Right Man”. Educated, smart, attractive women with careers find life is not meaningful without husband and family. 2) What they require from a man is reliability, respectfulness and willingness to provide for a family. They want to be treated respectfully and well, but they definitely want to be treated like a woman. 3) They have no ambivalence whatsoever about being appealing to their man.
They celebrate this about themselves, their femininity and sex appeal. These women are genuine, direct, and have no time for games and are generally not interested (but are quite aware of) western feminism. Interestingly, during Soviet times women were “emancipated” from the homes and out into the factory and collectives, and the government propaganda machine even downplayed and tried to discourage marriage. So these women really know what all this means, and since the collapse of the USSR, (which has been a mixed bag for them in many ways) they have enthusiastically embraced traditional gender and marriage relationships. In fact, my woman very explicitly told me early on that she had no interest in an egalitarian relationship – and she has been very clear about what she wants and expects from me, and I couldn’t be more delighted.
(I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good. Oh, and she’s gorgeous and awesome in a million different ways. Wish me luck…. )
Sounds like a Blue Pill dream come true, right? I haven’t done a case study in some time so I’m going to take Mitch’s situation here and riff on it a bit. I really think it’s good to review certain fundamentals for the sake of men who are new to my work, but also for Red Pill men to understand the Blue Pill way of thinking to better help men like Mitch to unplug.
In The Purple Pill I outlined the process by which previously Red Pill men degrade themselves back into their Blue Pill mindsets. Most do this in the same fashion as someone like Tucker Max. They renounce their Red Pill behaviors and, for the most part, make attempts to compartmentalize the harsh truths they know women would rather they didn’t know or expose to other men. Guys of this Purple Pill stripe still cling (or return to clinging) to their old Blue Pill idealism in the hopes that the goals their old conditioning taught them was still possible.
This Purple Pill man still has had some exposure to, and practice with, a Red Pill awareness. The difference is that due to some life circumstance (unplanned or “accidental” pregnancy) or some part of his Beta self he was unable to disconnect from (the soul mate myth) in his Red Pill awareness.
However, Mitch represents another type of Purple Pill man. This is the guy who’s become Red Pill aware, but believes he can make his Blue Pill idealism work in a Red Pill context from the outset of his partial unplugging. As a result, there’s a certain degree of affirmation seeking men of this stripe look for from other men in Red Pill forums. That affirmation is entirely based in the false hope that he can use Red Pill truths to achieve Blue Pill goals. Thus, he looks for affirmation in this feminine-primary idealism without realizing he’s really just asking Red Pill men for their permission to persist in his Blue Pill hope while calling it Red Pill for himself.
Mitch goes on over several comments in an effort to get this permission to define his ONEitis as a Red Pill goal by qualifying her in every Blue Pill way imaginable. Needless to say the stink of Blue Pill conditioning wasn’t hard for my forum members to identify. He insists he’s read my work well enough to be considered Red Pill aware, but his actions and attitudes with this woman tell a much different story.
When called out on this fact we get the obligatory, “Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves..”
Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.
Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.
I don’t get mad with responses like this. It’s really all part of men’s unplugging. I’ve said it a million times, unplugging men from the Matrix is dirty work. Understand this now if you ever hope to aid a guy in coming to the Red Pill, there will always be a lot of anger, denial and frustration that comes from the disillusionment of breaking a man’s ego-investment in a Blue Pill mindset that he’s been conditioned to for the better part of his lifetime.
I found Mitch’s story engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset. Thus, you see the binary extremes of anything that contradicts those old investments:
The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman.
Here we see the attempt to cast doubt, but also a plea for confirmation of theory. He wants to believe that because there are no hard-fast conclusions of the uncomfortable aspects of the Red Pill that the possibility exists that his Blue Pill hopes may still be valid.
Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you.
Disqualification, but wrapped in the magical romantic language of Blue Pill idealism. Add a bit of pseudo-heartfelt pity for the men who wont reaffirm his idealisms.
Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.
Later on in the comments, Mitch tries to reassure me he’s thoroughly read my essays, but it’s obvious he hasn’t read The Myth of the Good Guy after making this comment. Most of his remaining comments are variations of this, to which he’s entirely oblivious of how apparent his Blue Pill nature is to the forum.
Feel free to read through the conversations, but they all came to a head in his most recent admission here:
Guys, thanks for sticking with me.
I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down. We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk. So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. But firm. The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new? I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.
I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely. That didn’t even chase me off. It’s just that this other woman was so much more compelling. If she is bpd, she is the third experience I’ve had with this type. They are like catnip to me. Now that I see it, I’m definitely not going down that road with her because I’m all too aware of where it inevitably leads. Good. But, still..fuck!
Mitch, you’re not going to like what I’m about to type here for you, but just know that it’s a necessary kick in the ass and I’m in no way trying to flame you. As I mentioned in my last comment to you, you really need to read all of the links in my Year One collection.
I’m going to pick apart your latest report about this girl you ‘love’ and I think you should really give yourself some time to consider what you think has been your half-measure unplugging.
I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down.We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk.
Two things here; first, you are using texting as a Buffer. This is what I would expect from a teenager or someone with an adolescent social skill set. Texting you ‘love’ her and convincing yourself you do after no more than a week of in-person interaction is a major, jumbotron-scale signal that you are not only Beta and Blue Pill, but also you subscribe to a scarcity mentality. This is rule one.
Secondly, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. You having conversations about how you’re going to fuck her in Italy are evidence that you really have no clue how Game works. Your pre-sex talks about having sex are again a major signal of your Blue Pill headspace:
Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.
When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.
Your conversations are all evidence that you buy into the ‘open communication’ Blue Pill narrative.
So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. [Beta] But firm.[still thinking RP men will say that’s Alpha] The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new?[attempt to confirm RP terms, and another plea for affirmation]
I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.
All this woman is doing is confirming your status as a Beta for her. Likely she thought you’d be an easy mark, but your overt insistence on preplanned, negotiated and scheduled sex has made her lose interest in you even as a Beta provider.
I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely.
This woman is not suffering from BPD, she’s responding how most women would when they have a man’s Beta status overtly confirmed for them. You believe these ‘types’ of women are drawn to you when in fact you have the same effect on every woman when you overtly demonstrate your lower value to them by sticking to your Beta Game while thinking it’s some how the correct, Red Pill way of dealing with women.
The only reason you believe you respect a Catholic woman is because you have no choice but to respect her because she reaffirms your Blue Pill nature, but still wont fuck you.
I’m going to invite the commenters to address Mitch’s situation in the comment thread, but I’ll start here by saying you really need to thoroughly read through my posts (or books if you prefer). You are in no way ‘woke’ to a Red Pill awareness Mitch. For as much as you believe you are, your behaviors, your mindset, all point to a guy who’s read some Red Pill ideas, but can’t disconnect from his Blue Pill hopes and attitudes.
You’re trying to force fit a Blue Pill hope into a Red Pill reality. This is why the last 3 women you’ve reported you’ve been involved with have been the same. It’s not them, it’s you.
Again, I didn’t write this post to flame you, but rather to let you serve as an example of how pervasive a Blue Pill mindset is, and how it retards a man’s social intelligence and his maturation.

Andy
Are you saying that the risk of a failed pLTR with kids is different than the risk of failed monoLTR with kids?
Won’t each different baby mama want 100% of what she is entitled to?
“Won’t each different baby mama want 100% of what she is entitled to?”
wtf dude… The argument isn’t to knock up multiple chicks. ONE Baby Momma.
@sentient
“I’ve never advocated anyone “cheat” and I question the whole pLTR premise as respects to me on its face, because it is not “open”. So moot for these conversations. As the to negatives to the whole pLTR with kids arrangement as a dodge to the “no legal benefit” canard – see above.”
Never said you did….. I said……when ya uses you as a poster boy for an pltr you attempt to shoot down that narrative. Even though you are clearly not monogamous but state your relationship isn’t open.
http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/96/MPW-48133
LOL
@ Andy
” Are you saying that the risk of a failed pLTR with kids is different than the risk of failed monoLTR with kids?”
*sigh*
I said that my opinion was that the courts/legal were harsher on non-married men wrt child support, and that not all divorced men get saddled with ” court ordered ” child support…or even alimony.
Don’t knock up women and be named as the father. Period.
Andy “The demographics don’t really matter. The same principles apply for all girls” I agree with kfg on the female demographics. It’s why FRs sometimes contain YOUR HB ranking of her, but also how she sees herself. You don’t treat a 6 like you do an 8, and you don’t treat an 8 who thinks she’s a 10 the same way you would that same girl if she thought herself a 6. But what happens when the 5s see themselves as 10s (validation culture)? Where do the real 8+s see themselves? As for male demographics, “So, if you don’t think… Read more »
Just my 2 cents
Certain guys here keep pointing at Sentient’s ” thing ” ( which the constant allusion to is kinda fucked up imo..) without appearing to understand what he’s made very clear.
Don’t try to use what a man has shared with you as a means to beat him about the head with it.
If you don’t understand what Sentient has said multiple times, I guess you could keep asking him about it without the bile.
But if you really can’t grasp it, just drop it and move along.
@ Andy
” wtf dude… The argument isn’t to knock up multiple chicks. ONE Baby Momma.”
Lol.
You’re misunderstanding.
Othergrain
Could you explain why you see getting cucked as inherent to the pLTR?
The explicit mention of breaking up with your baby mama for a year or so in the hope she will explore the world and realize how great you are and come back… poses certain “risks” to your nuclear family with her… In any event, having the door swing open for her to do whatever she wants is bad enough tbh. You can thank HBC for the difference…
The Red Pill is a pretty bitter one to chew on. Hope for Mitch. I think I’m not yet fully unplugged myself. Big Fan of your work Rollo.
It was an “Oh fuck–really?” moment. I had gone with Mrs. Gamer to her doctor appt. to see her new doctor. The doctor was a magazine cover–a lovely face. I tried to be cool and not stare at her, lol. Her body was sloppy–probably 20 lbs overweight. So, the doc pulled her sweater over her tits a couple of times, lol. I guess that I wasn’t THAT cool. Anyway, as we were leaving, Mrs. Gamer was ahead of me and the doc was behind me and the doc said goodbye so that I had to turn my head to see… Read more »
@kfg
Mitch: “I absolutely see life as a paradox, as in x is true, and on the other hand, y is also true.”
HABD: “that’s WHY you are stuck in BP… ”
http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/29/feminist-phd-candidate-science-sexist-not-subjective/
https://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages
He isn’t just stuck in Blue Pill. A lot of masculine, Alpha guys are stuck in Blue Pill. He’s stuck in a Cultural Marxist woman’s mental frame.
+1…
my bad…lol…
i was blending concepts… where everything ‘not reality’ was ‘BP’…lol..
thanks for the catch/detail…
good luck!
@Andy: ” So, if you don’t think Joe the plumber can learn to spin plates… I guess that’s where we disagree?”
The issue isn’t spinning plates. The issue is maintaining a nuclear family.
I think if Joe the Plumber tries to run Live in Baby Momma While Spinning Plates Game he’s going to get fucked up the ass.
” I think if Joe the Plumber tries to run Live in Baby Momma While Spinning Plates Game he’s going to get fucked up the ass.”
http://postsfromthepath.com/wordpress/media/the-truth.png
@KFG
“I think if Joe the Plumber tries to run Live in Baby Momma While Spinning Plates Game he’s going to get fucked up the ass.”
In the words of your overlord sentient…………..THAT IS A LIMITING BELIEF and if hes authentic dynamic and passionate and he wont get fucked up the ass
I once know a guy. I’ll dispense with making up a name..lol. This guy: Tall 6’6″, Athletic basketball player build, Super charismatic and personable, Earned mid-six figures. Was dating a woman. Idk about hb anymore. I suck at it, but for arguments sake, lets agree that she was a 6.5-7. After dating for over a year, he decides to move in with her. Now, this guy was one of the biggest pussy chasers I have ever known. Insatiable. He would often fuck chicks, take pics of the fuckage going down, and share the pics with me. It was…incredible at the… Read more »
“……..THAT IS A LIMITING BELIEF and if hes authentic dynamic and passionate . . .”
. . . he won’t be Joe the Plumber any more. He will have done the work and gotten better. He’ll be Mr. Top Dog and one of his plates will be Joe’s baby momma.
@Mitch When I became an ODG and started encountering the red pill, one of the things I lucked into was finding several other men IRL where I lived who were into self improvement red pill style and most importantly, into holding each other accountable. Some of the question and answer sessions around accountability were brutal, especially for a noob like me, but over time, I came to realize a couple of things: (1), that to have other men who care about you enough to tell you the truth to your face (and in your face) in all its ugliness and… Read more »
@Blax
A man can be alpha and lay pussy like it’s going out of style, but he can also suck at relationship game.
I talk about pussy with my wife, go out clubbing, don’t earn shit, but she’s in love with me.
Maybe I know a little bit about relationships.
Oh, I forgot to add an appropriate song to my post about the doctor…
“I think if Joe the Plumber tries to run Live in Baby Momma While Spinning Plates Game he’s going to get fucked up the ass.”
Because he’s a plumber? Or what’s the reason?
@Random
I’m slowly but surely learning how to act like a jerk and get away with it.
It’s a whooooole lotta fun!
This one broad…gonna tell her I’ve been wondering…how it would feel to have my dick in her mouth (while lasering her with a serious, quizzical expression)…then tell her that I’m just there to dance, lol. You can get away with a whole lot if you’re fun and your subcomms are authentic.
“. . . he won’t be Joe the Plumber any more. He will have done the work and gotten better. He’ll be Mr. Top Dog and one of his plates will be Joe’s baby momma” So if hes passionate he becomes a new man…..because joe the plumber obviously can’t be passionate about plumbing and certainly there’s no way he could actually love his job. And certainly becoming Top Dog will ensure that his family is “happier” lol Because certainly doing the work and getting better will make you not get fucked in the ass “The issue isn’t spinning plates. The… Read more »
“I said that my opinion was that the courts/legal were harsher on non-married men wrt child support, and that not all divorced men get saddled with ” court ordered ” child support…or even alimony.”
I can only speak for myself, but the point of the discussion is to keep full custody of the kids. Doesn’t matter what the relationship type is, if it fails you lose full custody. It makes your point irrelevant imo.
“Because certainly doing the work and getting better will make you not get fucked in the ass”
It will be an unusual man indeed who avoids that.
“I can only speak for myself, but the point of the discussion is to keep full custody of the kids. Doesn’t matter what the relationship type is, if it fails you lose full custody.”
It is part of Ya Really’s plan to expect the relationship to fail and “prepare” for that.
Part 2…. ” Do you take this man as your lawful wedded…” So about 5 years pass by. 300 grand in CS, give or take. The guys is still spinning plates, but he is severely stressed and unhappy. The plates drop from 6-7, down to 2-3. Baby momma/ex GF fucks him sporadically between her bf’s. He wants to get back with her so that he can be more active in raising his daughter. She openly laughs in his face about this. She gives him a nasty dose of gonorrhea. It takes him months to get rid of it. He accidently… Read more »
@ Andy ” I can only speak for myself, but the point of the discussion is to keep full custody of the kids. Doesn’t matter what the relationship type is, if it fails you lose full custody. It makes your point irrelevant imo.” My point isn’t irrelevant. Single dudes catch hell in court, even when trying for full custody. It hardly ever happens. Maybe if the woman is some kind of meth head or felon. The courts are tilted in her favor. real talk. But hey, any guy that wants to give this a go, try it out. maybe they… Read more »
Mersonia
“……..THAT IS A LIMITING BELIEF and if hes authentic dynamic and passionate . . .”
. . . he won’t be Joe the Plumber any more. He will have done the work and gotten better. He’ll be Mr. Top Dog and one of his plates will be Joe’s baby momma.
If I was looking for an overlord, KFG is kinda sexy!
Open.Your.Ears.
@kfg:
http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/29/feminist-phd-candidate-science-sexist-not-subjective/
https://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages
He isn’t just stuck in Blue Pill. A lot of masculine, Alpha guys are stuck in Blue Pill. He’s stuck in a Cultural Marxist woman’s mental frame.
Oh, great analogy. Not. Feminist views on science and computer programming are not remotely related to what I was talking about. If you equate the objectivity in scientific method with relating to other human beings, then there’s not much to talk about.
Zen also is big on paradox.
@Blax
Nobody can prepare you to witness immanent demise quite like Sean Bean holding a sword.
“Zen also is big on paradox.”
My dog has Buddha nature.
Can a dog be a Buddha?
Woof.
“Zen also is big on paradox.” So much so that a Zen Master might be inclined to say: “If it’s not paradoxical, it’s not true.” So what is your point Mitch? http://weeklygravy.com/lifestyle/going-with-the-flow-the-zen-of-not-caring/ “When it comes down to it, the art of truly being Zen really just means not giving a shit. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about here. I have all kinds of degrees in Asian languages and philosophy. During my travels, in search of… whatever, I’ve come across all manner of people looking for some kind of enlightenment, greater meaning to their mundane existence or a way… Read more »
“Can a dog be a Buddha?” At the house party at the college party I went to last weekend, my son’s roommate had a dog the was well paid attention too. (I have no idea what breed it was, but it was cool as hell.) It was Buddha as all get out. Super attentive to it’s surroundings but not really tied down to what was actually going on. Just being in the moment. Free with no constraints. That dog gave off the aura of not giving a shit about the paradoxes of being among a bunch of flaky humans. He… Read more »
Women from easter europe are more hypergamous than american, becouse they are raised that way and are aware of the fact how they look. I live close to that area and can tell you that who thinks otherwise should get real life. That was not purple pill that was pink pill of schmuck..
@SJF That ‘weeklygravy’ essay was a nice read. I want to change; “stop caring” to “stop caring about emotional paradigms formed when your blue-pill driven brain was possibly literally still growing in measurable chunks of gray matter and your emotions were hypercharged by crazy amounts of imbalanced hormones that were setting down weapons-grade neural pathways that can easily be mistaken for sacrosanct, lifelong convictions about who you really are or what you really want or visions of how life just has to be.” It’s a nice feeling to ‘stop caring’ about all those ancient, sacred convictions, visions or anticipations and… Read more »
As someone that has spent years over seas, this guy is 100% beta. While I was living in Turkey, I always wondered why the “girlfriend material” English speaking good looking Turkish girls always went straight for the chumps and average looking guys and didn’t even show interest in me, and it was because they were looking for a husband and someone to get them out of their country and to the United States. These women latched on to the beta, the guy that knew there was no way in hell he could get a girl of that caliber in the… Read more »
I don’t have a dog.
“My dog has Buddha nature.” and “I don’t have a dog.”
I’m going to state the obvious… You can’t get much more paradoxical than that (def.: seemingly absurd or self-contradictory).
“Be comfortable with paradox. And become Anti-Fragile while doing so. Don’t subscribe to the Taboo about Knowing Who You Are and your place in the Universe. Don’t place to much importance in your Fragility in the world. You are Fragile, your end goal is to be Antifragile when you paradoxically Accept that you are fragile in a Zen World.” It isn’t even a paradox. It makes perfect sense when you have the realization that the notion that you are a separate entity is an illusion. “You” don’t exist. If you lose your arm, doesn’t matter. If you lose your leg,… Read more »
“YaReally just wanted to have a fucking discussion about what would or would not be the best possible solution.”
Alter the social structures which make it impossible into structures that make it possible.
“Alter the social structures which make it impossible into structures that make it possible.”
So, what is IMPOSSIBLE? The pLTR with kids is IMPOSSIBLE? Marriage with kids is IMPOSSIBLE? Monogamy with kids is IMPOSSIBLE?
@Mitch Oh, great analogy. Not. you’re right!… it’s NOT an analogy (great or otherwise)…lol… kfg’s comment was a DESCRIPTION of your current MPoO… and incredibly accurate, i might add… and it was actually encouraging for me to see you have a spark of anger there…lol… Feminist views on science and computer programming are not remotely related to what I was talking about. those links kfg put up ARE right on point… as was his clarification of your “BP-ness”… what he listed is the particular form of BP that you are trapped in… and it’s one step further removed from RP… Read more »
Andy This is why I don’t understand Sentient’s “exceptionalism.” The ONLY thing that ever matters in life is being yourself and doing what you want. EVERYTHING else is a subjective value judgement. Everyone has the same potential to be themselves. Well I agree with part of what you are saying, “doing what you want” aligns with the Platinum Rule… But if what “you want” is limited by “what you can get”… there is the rub… Not all can get what they want… 200 lbs is always 200 lbs as Mr Rollins says… Can you lift it? It’s binary. Not a… Read more »
“Not all can get what they want…”
Yeah, I mean reality is reality. I don’t disagree with that. But having something is meaningless in the long run, doesn’t mean you can’t want it or keep trying to have it, but it doesn’t really matter. It’s about the journey not the destination mannnn… 😛
“It’s about the journey not the destination “ https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/25/for-better-or-worse/comment-page-12/#comment-172231 https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/25/for-better-or-worse/comment-page-12/#comment-172232 THE MASCULINE LIKES THE EDGE The Masculine likes the edge. Even as a form of relaxation, even as a form of recreation, the Masculine often prefers a challenge to a free ride. Driving the car a little faster than necessary. Watching boxing matches, football games and action movies. Competing on the tennis court, the backgammon board and at the poker table. This is not because the Masculine always has to prove Himself, or because “men enjoy violence.” It is because the Masculine comes alive at the edge, when challenged. If… Read more »
There is no problem having kids. Any rodent can pop them out by the half dozen. The problem is the social structure. A social structure which cannot be evaded. A social structure in which all the loopholes have been found and plugged, to the point that not even not being the father can always protect you from being simply assigned the responsibility and your assets forcibly seized. But Ya Really has set his acceptable solution set in stone. The issue “cannot be discussed” because he will not accept the discussion on realistic terms. Anything he does not want to hear… Read more »
@kfg Andy
That is the problem to which a solution is being sought.
aaaand, following that solution down the rabbit hole leads to… getting legally contract married… lol… as a way to AVOID that system… and mitigate your actual risk…
good luck!
kfg
I don’t have a dog.
“On the Internet nobody knows you’re a dog”.
“A system which is not an impartial third party, as most assume. A system which is paid to find you a domestic abuser and receives a percentage of the assets it seizes from you.” No relationship is GUARANTEED to fail. Highly likely? Yeah. If you want kids you might as well choose a structure that would benefit everyone the most, and be the most likely to succeed. His theory for this is a pLTR. If you don’t want to participate in the discussion because you think EVERY father is doomed to be accused of abuse and lose everything then don’t… Read more »
“aaaand, following that solution down the rabbit hole leads to… getting legally contract married… lol… as a way to AVOID that system… and mitigate your actual risk…”
I’m pretty sure that kfg’s argument is that it doesn’t matter if you’re married or not. Either way, again, I can only speak for myself, but I’m totally open to the possibility that the best solution is to get married with a prenup, still don’t see why you can’t have a pLTR though even in that configuration.
That is the problem to which a solution is being sought.
One label for that problem is “The child support model of marriage” (hat tip: Dalrock) which is a recent innovation dating to the 1970’s / 1980’s, and is now firmly and quite deeply embedded into the legal system of the US in particular and every other industrialized country to some degree. It is a system that has been created, and refined, and refined again and again, specifically to catch and control men who have fathered children.
@ Andy Lol. Just lol. …. I can’t even respond anymore. @ kfg Thanks. You’ve been using fact and logic against wishing and wanting. To me, it is apparent that some will continue to assert that there is some kind of discussion that has yet to be exhausted. I’d rather change the discussion as follows…. I would like to be able to take all of the money out of a bank, without robbing it and there by avoiding legal punishment or felony charges. Maybe if I convince tellers to just arbitrarily hand over all of the cash? How can I… Read more »
“No relationship is GUARANTEED to fail.”
Enter the OMG’s to thank you for stipulating to their position.
” . . . still don’t see why you can’t have a pLTR though . . .”
Just be Alpha 24/7, Bro.
The circle closes yet again, and I’m starting to get dizzy.
@Blaximus:
New Yorker cartoon, circa 45 years ago. One guy is saying to another, “Would you voluntarily give me all your money so I don’t have to rob you and become a criminal?”
Blaximus
I want all of the bank’s money
Flag on the play. Robbery is malum prohibitum. What Andy / YaReally are trying to discuss is malum in se. Not the same thing.
Bad analogy. 5 yard penalty.
Crap. Flag on myself.
Robbery is malum in se. Trying to live like a hippy from 1970-something is malum prohibitum.
Blaximus analogy still fails.
15 yard penalty on myself.
It’s quite remarkable when a man knows he’s found “the one” after skyping and spending one non-sexual wk w/a Russian gal.
Has anyone else noticed since taking RP that liberals & BP men are essentially long-winded bloviators? Steven A Smith, race-obsessed talking head on ESPN, serves as a perfect example. He used to make an occasional valid point prior to being suspended during the whole Ray Rice episode. Now, like the large majority of media, he’s another useless windbag
@Marzim, I did ask for an explanation about that. All I do is hold up a mirror, sometimes it’s too painful for the Blue Pill mind to want to look.
@Andy I’m pretty sure that kfg’s argument is that it doesn’t matter if you’re married or not. Either way, again, I can only speak for myself, but I’m totally open to the possibility that the best solution is to get married with a prenup, still don’t see why you can’t have a pLTR though even in that configuration. it DOESN’T matter if you are married or not… but that’s not the analysis…lol… the ‘problem’ was how to minimize the ‘risk’ (to men in the fat part of the bell curve ) of having a kid (with a <25yo hb8+/10 girl… Read more »
@Kfg and @Andy: What YaReally posits as a theory, and Andy and I support is correct, is that a pLTR is generally a safer bet to maintain the relationship with the kids’ mother than a legal marriage would be. That is the claim. The reason YaReally formulated that theory a put it up for discussion is because we know about hypergamy, dread, abundance mentality and other such concepts that I think everyone (including OMGs) seriously discussing the issue understand and agree with. In a pLTR hypergamy is better satisfied, it is easier to implement dread game and keep an abundance… Read more »
@HABD: I was writing while you posted. If I interpret you correctly you are saying that, in a situation where the relationship with the kids’ mother fails, you are better off being legally married i.e. you are making the claim that marriage is better for my point 2). Do you disagree that a pLTR has better chances for avoiding the failure in the first place i.e. can you address my point 1) instead of 2)? Further, I don’t understand the reasoning that, for 2), marriage is better because it is easier to game the ex. Presumably it is as easy… Read more »
Mazrim Has anyone else noticed since taking RP that liberals & BP men are essentially long-winded bloviators? Yes. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. Just like women. In fact, one thing I notice more and more is how often traditional conservative BP men talk pretty much like their wives, with slight variations. The White Knights are worse, and the churchgoing, BP, White Knight tradcons are basically women. They don’t just talk like women, they emote like women. For sure they don’t lift… maybe these BP White Knights should just put on a dress, go tranny,… Read more »
@Andy note – there IS one other situ where the system doesn’t get involved… and that’s where the ‘mother’ never asks the system ‘for help’… for anything… ever…lol… and the only way to make THAT happen… is with game…lol… the same solid game that you will need to ‘not get divorced’… buuut… the mother getting into the system is a LOT faster when you are NOT legal contract married… precisely bc the system is not really set up to deal with that situ… so, your game needs to be even BETTER than if you were legal contract married… to avoid… Read more »
“so, again being legal contract married is a shield against the system…”
Okay, I can accept that. So what about the pLTR part? non-monogamous prenup? I would have to think that non-monogamous relationship contracts exist out there.
“Just be Alpha 24/7, Bro.”
That’s what OMG’s were saying about monogamous marriage. We’re not talking about monogamous marriage. The argument is that pLTR will give you some leeway in NOT being Alpha 24/7… Bro.
Being legally married is an advantage if you are UMC because…
1) the wife gets a status boost for being married
2) the wife has less of an incentive to go for cash&prizes
3) the wife gets a status penalty from the UMC herd if she gets a divorce.
Conclusion: if you’re going for marriage, make sure you’re UMC. Get your finances in order before seeking marriage. Of course, you better have Game if you want sex, UMC marriage or no.
@HABD: thanks for the clarification. Point 2), which is what is worse if failure occurs, is technically a different issue, but in some sense is connected to 1) as it is a potential motivation for breaking the relationship to get at the “cash and prizes”. HABD’s claim, that would negate point 1) is that the legal marriage not only makes it harder for the man to break it off but also makes it harder for the kid’s mother to break the relationship. Note though that the marriage makes it harder for both parties to break off, but it is even… Read more »
” . . . the pLTR is safer . . .” . . . IF . . . you can be Alpha 24/7, dear Liza, dear Liza. A week ago I got on my bike and set the best time of the year on the local 5 mile course, against 220+ people. Yesterday I set best time of the year on the quarter mile sprint course, against 240+ people. Turned out to be the second fastest time ever, against 540+ people. I missed the absolute record because I was riding in track pursuit mode, no friction brakes, so I had… Read more »
IAS He reportedly squashed that after 1 year, I have to imagine it would have been harder to do that without him having the abundance mentality he had from getting hard (results) with other women. If a one sided pLTR falls in the forest and no one hears it or sees it, does it exist? In other words what you are really agreeing with is the premise of MINDSET leading to results and if you have MINDSET you can have HAND and if you have HAND you have control and then it is up to you not to lose it.… Read more »
“” . . . the pLTR is safer . . .”
. . . IF . . . you can be Alpha 24/7”
Do you think that pLTR would make it easier to be Alpha 24/7 in the event of you losing your job or mojo as opposed to a monogamous marriage where you are not talking to attractive girls regularly and keeping your skills and abundance up?
“No one can credibly argue managing concurrent sexual relationships with multiple women, some of which you have children with, is not being Alpha 24/7… No one. ”
Touche. But do you think it’s easier to be Alpha 24/7 in your situation as opposed to monogamy?
ADSgamer
Being legally married is an advantage if you are UMC because…
…you get to live in Lake Woebegone where all the children are above average.
@Sentient: I agree, HABD came through with an argument for why he, you (and possibly Blaximus) think that the legal marriage has better chances of enduring than a pLTR would. It also seems fairly credible that this is indeed the case in the UMC – marriage is more stable in the UMC than a pLTR would be. I don’t think it is the case otherwise (outside the UMC). The pLTR seems to be more stable in general because for the same man, it is easier having “MINDSET” and “HAND” if you are preselected, social proofed, have abundance and a situation… Read more »
Andy
Touche. But do you think it’s easier to be Alpha 24/7 in your situation as opposed to monogamy?
No. I got INTO my situation with an 8 (personal 10) – i.e. monogomy – FROM the other…
the lesson is don’t fritter hand away… (see Blax divorce etc.).
IAS – Define “dread game”…. LOL
Dread is fear of replacement… that A girl, a unique singular girl FEARS that YOU will remove your AWESOME self from her life… has nothing to do with monogamy or polyamory of the parties. It has everything to do with how she views YOU.
“No. I got INTO my situation with an 8 (personal 10) – i.e. monogomy – FROM the other…”
Did you just call your relationship as it stands right now, monogamy?
@Andy: For me the question is not even phrased properly, but as I have noted before, the one thing I am not is average. For a guy in the fat part of the curve, Joe the Plumber, he simply can’t do it. He can accept his fate, he can join the Beta revolt, or . . . move his ass out into the tail of the curve. But to do that he has to get past me. That was the point of my bicycle racing example. To reframe the competitive aspect away from the intersexual where it might be viewed… Read more »
“For a guy in the fat part of the curve, Joe the Plumber, he simply can’t do it. He can accept his fate, he can join the Beta revolt, or . . . move his ass out into the tail of the curve.”
Okay fine. Moving his ass is a prerequisite.
@IAS @HABD: I was writing while you posted. If I interpret you correctly you are saying that, in a situation where the relationship with the kids’ mother fails, you are better off being legally married i.e. you are making the claim that marriage is better for my point 2). yes… that’s where that rabbit hole goes…lol… and your game needs to be solid at a higher level to make pLTR work… bc you CAN’T ‘next’ a ‘baby momma’…lol… Do you disagree that a pLTR has better chances for avoiding the failure in the first place i.e. can you address my… Read more »
@Sentient: your current situation is not monogamy in any reasonably definition. As for dread game, as you know Rollo has one or more posts on it, your definition suits me fine: “A girl, a unique singular girl FEARS that YOU will remove your AWESOME self from her life” From this a couple of questions. Do you agree that in a pLTR (where she knows about it), dread game is pretty much automatic and that this solidifies the woman’s desire for you, the desire that you STAY in her life (which explicitly helps preventing a split and custody issues)? Beyond that,… Read more »
Let go of the fear of being ” Alpha 24/7 “. Develop the requisite skills and mindset, and internalize it. I get the notion that guys are afraid that it’s too hard and can’t be maintained. Question” Why is that? To those who feel that 24/7 Alpha is too hard? Why? And, if one is averse to developing qualities in himself, for himself, that women happen to find irresistible , why bother with women in any kind of long term fashion in the first place? Serious question because I see that no matter how many different way this mindset is… Read more »
“Okay fine. Moving his ass is a prerequisite.”
Allow me to welcome you to the Sentient boot camp.
IAS – you are getting into dancing on the head of a pin territory here. All of my exploits are ONS and when away. And when I want to. There is no “locked in” absolutist position. So If I haven’t had a side girl in two months what would you call the arrangement over those two months? Getting silly. Do you agree that in a pLTR (where she knows about it), dread game is pretty much automatic and that this solidifies the woman’s desire for you, the desire that you STAY in her life (which explicitly helps preventing a split… Read more »
@ Andy ” Do you think that pLTR would make it easier to be Alpha 24/7 in the event of you losing your job or mojo as opposed to a monogamous marriage where you are not talking to attractive girls regularly and keeping your skills and abundance up?” You have it completely backwards. You can’t avoid cementing your mindset. My job has nothing to do with my mindset. Job loss is a separate issue always. My monogamous marriage is a result of MY mindset. Side note: I own my dick always, and it’s completely up to me what I do… Read more »
@IAS @Sentient: I agree, HABD came through with an argument for why he, you (and possibly Blaximus) think that the legal marriage has better chances of enduring than a pLTR would. how’s that FI treatin’ ya?…lol… come on in, the rabbit hole’s fine…lol… It also seems fairly credible that this is indeed the case in the UMC – marriage is more stable in the UMC than a pLTR would be. I don’t think it is the case otherwise (outside the UMC). i live in fishtown… The pLTR seems to be more stable in general because for the same man, it… Read more »
“Steven A Smith”
Raced against him a few times around the turn of. Seemed a decent fellow at the time, but we only talked car shit.
Re: Steven A Smith, first take is a glaring example of what happens to a Male Space when it accommodates a female overseer in the locker room – literally in this case.
@ Sentient
” No. You trigger dread when you trigger it, regardless of whether you are fucking other girls or not. Your subcoms can be just as strong or stronger – isn’t a PUA central tenant “fake it till you make it”… so subcoms are transferable. ”
This, This, This and more This
I don’t get the ” harder to use dread when married ” thing at all.
Skillsets anyone?
“Allow me to welcome you to the Sentient boot camp.”
Really? Seems to me like he’s still advocating monogamy.
“Talking to attractive girls is a benefit of my mindset.”
Okay, but you’re venturing into YaReally’s pLTR argument there.
On the whole dread thing whether mono or poly – to women it really doesn’t matter? Why? Because women think like women and they KNOW that if YOU are not around THEM some OTHER craft bitch MAY BE and how that can go down regardless of what you proclaim… Ever introduce your wife to a solid 9 22YO co worker you’ve been traveling the country with every other week for 6 months ? Dread? Triggered…. LOL But baby… nothing happened I SWEAR (and it’s true lol)! At the end of the day just be seen by your woman as a… Read more »
Andy
Really? Seems to me like he’s still advocating monogamy.
Come on man… https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/13/case-study-mitchs-purple-pill/comment-page-6/#comment-174286
Bookmark this for future reference…
” Really? Seems to me like he’s still advocating monogamy.”
This is truly mindboggling to me.
It has to be willful.
“Talking to attractive girls is a benefit of my mindset.
Okay, but you’re venturing into YaReally’s pLTR argument there.”
Nope. 2 different things…..c’mon Andy!!!! You can’t tell me that you are just not getting this.
Talking to attractive chicks has zero to do with pLTR, or LTR, or monogamy, or marriage, or anything but talking to girls and the mindset that makes it easier and possibly more fruitful, if that’s the goal.
@ Rollo ” Re: Steven A Smith, first take is a glaring example of what happens to a Male Space when it accommodates a female overseer in the locker room – literally in this case.” Oh for sure. I recall when Smith got booted from the show via suspension for his refusal to condemn Ray Rice, and it was driven by the female ” sports personalities ” at ESPN. That same day there was outraged females on the airwaves calling him out. The next day he was apologizing profusely, but that did not stop the suspension. Since that episode, he… Read more »
@ HABD ” not ‘game the ‘ex’ ‘…lol… she’s not your ‘ex’ while you are gaming her… you are gaming her up to and through any divorce proceedings (like Blaximus did…) so, you get a better deal (lower child support/better custody arrangement/better property settlement/etc)… bc she doesn’t want to ‘screw you over’… BC you are AF…lol… but you still might end up divorced bc all her friends/family are calling you a dirt bag for ‘cheating’ on her, etc… and she can’t take the social pressure…” This right here. I’ve tried to explain that divorce rape is not always eminent using… Read more »
Would this be accurate if I summed up the OMG position as the safest way to raise kids as this?
Put in the work, learn to spin plates, reach your potential, lots of vetting, pick a girl, marry her with the assumption of monogamy(prenup I’m assuming), knock her up then at the very least keep talking to chicks to keep your abundance and skills up. ??
@HABD: the FI is treating me badly, but I’m not unhappy so there is that. I’m just wondering if I would be happier if… @Sentient: fair enough you have your own definition of monogamy which includes ONSs. That wouldn’t be my definition but no point in arguing semantics as long as everyone knows what the others mean. Also, I think it is now clear why you (and apparently Blax, which pretty much cosigned your latest post) think the legal marriage has better chances. You start from HABD’s point that legal marriage has a higher threshold of dissatisfaction for the woman… Read more »
@Blax: one of Rollo’s posts says that relationship equity from the part of the woman is a Blue Pill myth:
https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/21/relational-equity/
@IAS
….They don’t have the answers…. but they have semantics.
@Andy “Talking to attractive girls is a benefit of my mindset.” Okay, but you’re venturing into YaReally’s pLTR argument there. this is the FI pushing on you… but i understand the confusion… for girls, emotional ‘cheating’ is as big a deal as physical ‘cheating’… but YaReally was blending that idea when he was talking about girls having ‘pLTRs’ with their orbiters/coworkers bc of social media… the only way to make a legal contract marriage work is to be ‘non-monogamous’ (regardless of whether or not you actually stick your D is some strange… = your CHOICE…) and that is also true… Read more »
@ IAS ” Blax: one of Rollo’s posts says that relationship equity from the part of the woman is a Blue Pill myth ” Rollo is the man, but I don’t always agree 100% with every word he types. 90% or there abouts? Sure thing. But the article doesn’t address what I stated. The ” equity ” I’d built was not from a blue pill expectation. It was due to the whole of the relationship when I wasn’t BP. That RP shit was strong, let me tell you. I’m just relating what my experience was irl. If a guy were… Read more »
@ Mersonia
” ….They don’t have the answers…. but they have semantics.”
So says you. Lol.
@Andy Would this be accurate if I summed up the OMG position as the safest way to raise kids as this? Put in the work, learn to spin plates, reach your potential, lots of vetting, pick a girl, (prenup I’m assuming), knock her up, then at the very least keep talking to chicks to keep your abundance and skills up, marry her with the assumption of monogamy non-monogamy?? fify…lol…(at least from MY pov… not sure about the OMGs…lol) good luck! ———– @IAS @HABD: the FI is treating me badly, but I’m not unhappy so there is that. I’m just wondering… Read more »
“….They don’t have the answers….”
Don’t be named as the father.
Be in the 10%.
Change the system so it isn’t a mechanism for ass raping men.
Not liking the answers is not the same thing as not having been provided with them.
re Smith: “The next day he was apologizing profusely, but that did not stop the suspension.”
Of course not. An apology is a confession.