Case Study – Mitch’s Purple Pill

mitch

This week we had an interesting situation arise in the comment threads. A new(?) reader, Mitch, dropped in to recount his affair with a Ukrainian woman he’d become enamored with, emphasis mine:

I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.

Full stop. Whenever a man even casually mentions a woman as ‘the ONE‘ you know he’s still clinging to his Blue Pill, feminine-primary conditioning. This is your first signal of a man’s mindset and is a glaring Beta Tell.

Next Mitch moves on to qualify the object of his, still unmet, ONEitis:

The biggest difference between these women and western women are three things: 1) They have a strong desire to find “their Right Man”. Educated, smart, attractive women with careers find life is not meaningful without husband and family. 2) What they require from a man is reliability, respectfulness and willingness to provide for a family. They want to be treated respectfully and well, but they definitely want to be treated like a woman. 3) They have no ambivalence whatsoever about being appealing to their man.

They celebrate this about themselves, their femininity and sex appeal. These women are genuine, direct, and have no time for games and are generally not interested (but are quite aware of) western feminism. Interestingly, during Soviet times women were “emancipated” from the homes and out into the factory and collectives, and the government propaganda machine even downplayed and tried to discourage marriage. So these women really know what all this means, and since the collapse of the USSR, (which has been a mixed bag for them in many ways) they have enthusiastically embraced traditional gender and marriage relationships. In fact, my woman very explicitly told me early on that she had no interest in an egalitarian relationship – and she has been very clear about what she wants and expects from me, and I couldn’t be more delighted.
(I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good. Oh, and she’s gorgeous and awesome in a million different ways. Wish me luck…. )

Sounds like a Blue Pill dream come true, right? I haven’t done a case study in some time so I’m going to take Mitch’s situation here and riff on it a bit. I really think it’s good to review certain fundamentals for the sake of men who are new to my work, but also for Red Pill men to understand the Blue Pill way of thinking to better help men like Mitch to unplug.

In The Purple Pill I outlined the process by which previously Red Pill men degrade themselves back into their Blue Pill mindsets. Most do this in the same fashion as someone like Tucker Max. They renounce their Red Pill behaviors and, for the most part, make attempts to compartmentalize the harsh truths they know women would rather they didn’t know or expose to other men. Guys of this Purple Pill stripe still cling (or return to clinging) to their old Blue Pill idealism in the hopes that the goals their old conditioning taught them was still possible.

This Purple Pill man still has had some exposure to, and practice with, a Red Pill awareness. The difference is that due to some life circumstance (unplanned or “accidental” pregnancy) or some part of his Beta self he was unable to disconnect from (the soul mate myth) in his Red Pill awareness.

However, Mitch represents another type of Purple Pill man. This is the guy who’s become Red Pill aware, but believes he can make his Blue Pill idealism work in a Red Pill context from the outset of his partial unplugging. As a result, there’s a certain degree of affirmation seeking men of this stripe look for from other men in Red Pill forums. That affirmation is entirely based in the false hope that he can use Red Pill truths to achieve Blue Pill goals. Thus, he looks for affirmation in this feminine-primary idealism without realizing he’s really just asking Red Pill men for their permission to persist in his Blue Pill hope while calling it Red Pill for himself.

Mitch goes on over several comments in an effort to get this permission to define his ONEitis as a Red Pill goal by qualifying her in every Blue Pill way imaginable. Needless to say the stink of Blue Pill conditioning wasn’t hard for my forum members to identify. He insists he’s read my work well enough to be considered Red Pill aware, but his actions and attitudes with this woman tell a much different story.

When called out on this fact we get the obligatory, “Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves..

Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

I don’t get mad with responses like this. It’s really all part of men’s unplugging. I’ve said it a million times, unplugging men from the Matrix is dirty work. Understand this now if you ever hope to aid a guy in coming to the Red Pill, there will always be a lot of anger, denial and frustration that comes from the disillusionment of breaking a man’s ego-investment in a Blue Pill mindset that he’s been conditioned to for the better part of his lifetime.

I found Mitch’s story engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset. Thus, you see the binary extremes of anything that contradicts those old investments:

The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman.

Here we see the attempt to cast doubt, but also a plea for confirmation of theory. He wants to believe that because there are no hard-fast conclusions of the uncomfortable aspects of the Red Pill that the possibility exists that his Blue Pill hopes may still be valid.

Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you.

Disqualification, but wrapped in the magical romantic language of Blue Pill idealism. Add a bit of pseudo-heartfelt pity for the men who wont reaffirm his idealisms.

Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Later on in the comments, Mitch tries to reassure me he’s thoroughly read my essays, but it’s obvious he hasn’t read The Myth of the Good Guy after making this comment. Most of his remaining comments are variations of this, to which he’s entirely oblivious of how apparent his Blue Pill nature is to the forum.

Feel free to read through the conversations, but they all came to a head in his most recent admission here:

 

Guys, thanks for sticking with me.

I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down. We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk. So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. But firm. The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new? I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.

I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely. That didn’t even chase me off. It’s just that this other woman was so much more compelling. If she is bpd, she is the third experience I’ve had with this type. They are like catnip to me. Now that I see it, I’m definitely not going down that road with her because I’m all too aware of where it inevitably leads. Good. But, still..fuck!

Mitch, you’re not going to like what I’m about to type here for you, but just know that it’s a necessary kick in the ass and I’m in no way trying to flame you. As I mentioned in my last comment to you, you really need to read all of the links in my Year One collection.

I’m going to pick apart your latest report about this girl you ‘love’ and I think you should really give yourself some time to consider what you think has been your half-measure unplugging.

I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down.We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk.

Two things here; first, you are using texting as a Buffer. This is what I would expect from a teenager or someone with an adolescent social skill set. Texting you ‘love’ her and convincing yourself you do after no more than a week of in-person interaction is a major, jumbotron-scale signal that you are not only Beta and Blue Pill, but also you subscribe to a scarcity mentality. This is rule one.

Secondly, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. You having conversations about how you’re going to fuck her in Italy are evidence that you really have no clue how Game works. Your pre-sex talks about having sex are again a major signal of your Blue Pill headspace:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

Your conversations are all evidence that you buy into the ‘open communication’ Blue Pill narrative.

So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. [Beta] But firm.[still thinking RP men will say that’s Alpha] The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new?[attempt to confirm RP terms, and another plea for affirmation]

I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.

All this woman is doing is confirming your status as a Beta for her. Likely she thought you’d be an easy mark, but your overt insistence on preplanned, negotiated and scheduled sex has made her lose interest in you even as a Beta provider.

I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely.

This woman is not suffering from BPD, she’s responding how most women would when they have a man’s Beta status overtly confirmed for them. You believe these ‘types’ of women are drawn to you when in fact you have the same effect on every woman when you overtly demonstrate your lower value to them by sticking to your Beta Game while thinking it’s some how the correct, Red Pill way of dealing with women.

The only reason you believe you respect a Catholic woman is because you have no choice but to respect her because she reaffirms your Blue Pill nature, but still wont fuck you.

I’m going to invite the commenters to address Mitch’s situation in the comment thread, but I’ll start here by saying you really need to thoroughly read through my posts (or books if you prefer). You are in no way ‘woke’ to a Red Pill awareness Mitch. For as much as you believe you are, your behaviors, your mindset, all point to a guy who’s read some Red Pill ideas, but can’t disconnect from his Blue Pill hopes and attitudes.

You’re trying to force fit a Blue Pill hope into a Red Pill reality. This is why the last 3 women you’ve reported you’ve been involved with have been the same. It’s not them, it’s you.

Again, I didn’t write this post to flame you, but rather to let you serve as an example of how pervasive a Blue Pill mindset is, and how it retards a man’s social intelligence and his maturation.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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verbarglaucus
9 years ago

Oh well. It’s hard enough to privately admit your assumed proficiency is bullshit, but in a public forum to total strangers? On a forum dedicated to making an example of you? Forget it.

But really dude, you’re getting advice from a pussy judo-master and you treat it like ‘whatever.’ Eh, I don’t know,

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Does anyone else pick up on the fact that Mitch only talks about “RP” and I don’t believe he has said one word about Game? I find this odd. The false premise (and Strawman argument–misrepresenting someone’s argument to make it easier to attack.) that Mitch wants to jumpstart his blog with is that RED PILL is both Game and an ideology. Red pill (awareness) is awareness. Game is the practice of a man’s sexual strategy. (Red pill awareness does not imply good Game. Skilled PUA Game can be practices with not a fuck given for Red Pill Awareness. Especially by… Read more »

kfg
kfg
9 years ago
Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

@Mitch: We have respect for each other here, even when we completely disagree…We DO NOT, however, respect bullshit. That’s cool man. I really will shut up now. I really should shut up. Damn, I can’t fucking help myself. Do not read my blog. It is not for you. Why? You guys can’t handle it because you have the emotional maturity of a bunch of 12 year olds. And all the piling on is a bunch of schoolyard bullies who just don’t have the balls to grow the fuck up. That, my friends, is THE source of your problems with women.… Read more »

kobayashii1681
9 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

@Mitch: Whatever dude! “Emotional maturity”…whatever makes you happy man.
Maybe what you’re not realising I that you’re the one who feels threatened here.
You’re 99% sure all women don’t want “that kind” of relationship?
Sure of what women want are you?
So how’s that been working out for you?
Don’t answer that….

I’m done.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

And quit talking about me personally as if you have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about. Just move on. Jeez.

verbarglaucus
9 years ago

You guys can’t handle it because you have the emotional maturity of a bunch of 12 year olds. And all the piling on is a bunch of schoolyard bullies who just don’t have the balls to grow the fuck up. That, my friends, is THE source of your problems with women. Full stop. No, you shouldn’t shut up, Mitch; you should calm down. Listen, we dislike being judged unfairly as much as you do. Some of the guys are throwing their cocks at you and that’s to be expected; others are solicitous of your feelings and are trying a less… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

“Mitch”
Also, you can never allow yourself to feel loved by your woman because you must maintain Frame at all times. In addition, you believe that woman are incapable of actually loving you.

Now where have I read this text, almost exactly this text, before?

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

“And quit talking about me personally as if you have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about.”

comment image

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

And this just in: Yoga pants on HB8+’s 21 y.o. women at college tailgaters (prancing about in full view of all) on a beautiful October afternoon are an aphrodisiac for old-married-red-pill couples. Where I spent the day I didn’t witness any men giving in to being neutered and being feminine (hipster-ish masculine denying?). And I didn’t see any women acting masculine. (well, except for the unattractive young women doing beer bongs in an attempt to impress. My wife and another women asked me about beer bongs in college. I had to profess ignorance about them ever being “a thing”. I… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

And quit talking about me personally as if you have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about. Just move on. Jeez.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

And quit talking about me personally as if you have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about. Just move on. Jeez.

https://imgflip.com/i/1cf70g

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

And quit talking about me personally as if you have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about. Just move on. Jeez.

http://i.imgflip.com/1cf70g.jpg

This time?

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

You guys….

Really, let it go.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Depends on what you want though. You want to fuck the hottest poon you can, then keep doing what your doing, because it obviously works. If that’s what you really want. You want to dominate and game your wife so you can ensure she will stay hot for you and never leave you? then keep doing what you’re doing. Because if you’re good at it, it works – with a woman who also wants that kind of relationship with a man. But I’m about 99 % sure that all women don’t want kind of relationship with a man. Also, you… Read more »

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

@Mitch:

I know you didn’t come here for criticism . You came here to sell revelation. You claim to have done your market research first, but you clearly didn’t, as you were selling something no one here was going to be much interested in buying.

And so you were criticised.

Why can’t you let it go? What is it that irks you so much to be judged? And if it irks you, why can’t you just walk away from it? What is it that makes you so determined to “set us straight,” (i.e., make the sale)?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

comment image

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

You guys….

comment image

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@ Anonymous Reader Deida has shit on Mitch. Mitch obviously wants LTR without understanding the dynamics of Long Term Relationships. (RP awareness and LTR Game are a pre requisite to actually maintaining a Ukrainian green card wife.) If you can read and translate, Deida is sidebar material for LTR’s for a reason. Perhaps he is totally irrelevant for sexual strategy in non-Long Term Relationships. No problems, ignore his assessment of work, women and spiritual strategy for men. And perhaps Deida has shit on you. (But we don’t know who you are and what your frame or strategy is. Well we… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

:

What is wrong with me? How come I just can’t help myself?

The surest way to fuck up a relationship is to have a Marriage or Girlfriend experience 1.0 (A Dependence Relationship with a Ukrainianicorn).

Thank you. I will be 50 years old in a couple of months. I have had a relationship or two. (or five). I’ve had a little bit of experience in fucking up. Your perspective would be a thousand times more useful to me and other men if you talked about how *you* fucked up. Own your shit.
That’s how you grow.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Just let it go Mitch is not necessarily in the spirit of the OP. It is a case study of Mitch’s Purple Pill and it deserves to explain Mitch. And then some. Rollo’s new typeface on the blog is interesting. I read through that last copy&paste of a Deida Chapter and see much more emphasis on Deida’s red pill awareness thoughts too much more clearly than the original. @Anonymous Reader or others: Do you think that the Deida cut and past is really “roll eyes” worthy? Does that make the Deida stuff unworthy? Total shit? It is certainly red pill.… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
9 years ago

Mitch,

https://youtu.be/3Cea-hyQevg

Your biggest enemy is yourself – not anyone here.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

Colbert, I don’t see any of you as my enemy. I don’t. It’s just interesting that you guys think you know what’s best for me. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. It’s bizarre and absurd. But then, I’m in denial. Got it. Guys, really, I’ve been there.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

it deserves to explain Mitch.

The OP in no way explains Mitch! This is cultic thinking! You guys have absolutely no idea who I am. You can’t possibly. This is exactly the problem. You think a theory can reduce the life experiences of a 50 year old man into something that is explainable. That’s completely absurd. Think about it.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

Granted, I’m an extreme example because I’m an unusual character. I don’t meet many people that are like me. I am naive. I’m not really naive, but I go through life as if I am. I do not believe that I will ever figure anything out, so I don’t worry about it. I go down this rabbit hole, and come out when I’m done, and then go find another rabbit hole to explore. In a nutshell, this is who I am. So when I say the OP in no way explains me, that’s true. Can I recognize elements of myself… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

@kfg:

You’re killing me. Bro, I am not here to sell you a goddamn thing. I swear. I have nothing to sell, and nothing to reveal. I’m just telling what I see. That is all I am doing. And it seems to be freaking people out. Why?

Also, I am not actually judging you. I’m just telling what I see. That’s all. Why is that such a problem? I ask you.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“Your perspective would be a thousand times more useful to me and other men if you talked about how *you* fucked up. Own your shit. That’s how you grow.” Me fucking up is not you ticket to feeling better about yourself. If you need Schadenfreude to get off on feeling good or well, then you can only feel better about your own or the worlds decline. For you to think other men have to fuck up for you to get inspired? Well the HABD would have a go at the pervasive and cunning FI. It really isn’t like that Gilligan,… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
9 years ago
Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

For you to think other men have to fuck up for you to get inspired? Everybody fucks up, man. It doesn’t inspire me. When someone talks about how they fucked up, I can see myself in that. I can maybe see something about myself I didn’t see before. I can relate. But if someone is telling me what (they think) is wrong with me, I can’t relate. Because that isn’t about me at all. It’s about them. If I tell you what I see, and I do it in such a way that I own what I see, then you… Read more »

NewbieOnPoint
NewbieOnPoint
9 years ago

@Sentient “Go on… expand your thought here. We are not talking about “success” but the characteristics of people who are “successful”… Show me a PUA or game technique that does not align with the Alpha Triad.” I can show you people that have those 3 characteristics in a lot of parts of their life except Game. Or, to be clear the type of game PUAs talk about. As Rollo describes in a post, even the male feminist, AFC, etc have a type of game. These guys will just use DPA within the frame the FI sets. They simply don’t know… Read more »

NewbieOnPoint
NewbieOnPoint
9 years ago

@Sentient

I read another comment(by Colbert)…

You aren’t authentic when you act like an AFC. I get what you mean now. I still think that pua is the best way to learn how to be DPA.

E
E
9 years ago

“Trolled Rollo’s site, now they won’t stop talking about me”

Loool same thing happened to me. Dw about it Mitch

scribblerg
scribblerg
9 years ago

@ Blax – “…..bitch made me put down my jumbo shrimp cocktail when I read his comment. The goddamn nerve of some people.” – BEST COMMENT EVER!

scribblerg
scribblerg
9 years ago

“My problems with women”, lol. So let’s comparison shop. I’m 54, overweight, half-crazy, near-broke and there I am tickling the tonsils of a 28yo HB9 the other night. Purely sexual, zero drama, like being in a porn movie, lol. Like I cannot believe the sex I have since TRP and Game. Full, fucking stop. That aspect in and of itself makes the entire effort worth it. Mitch, on the other hand, is furiously skyping and texting and commenting and buying airline tickets or starting entire blogs on why he’s not just another AFC, while he jacks off to porn. I… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
9 years ago

Mitch The trouble with reading.Other peoples ideas”ideals”is learning to separate the fruit from the flower.People that are emotionally attached to their ideas “ideals” carry on and use alot of words to convince themselves and others of why their ideals are correct,and how wrong life is treating them.The biggest problem on an open forum is that you may be arguing with a ten year old that is full of ideals,but lacks any experience in real life. It is my theory that until one has some experience that smashes these ideals,they are still emotionally attached to them and will twist reality into… Read more »

IAS
IAS
9 years ago

Isn’t “Let it go” a relatively recent Disney musical hit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_It_Go_(Disney_song)

Matt
Matt
9 years ago

I think it is obvious that Mitch is on his way to his own fantasy land, so there is nothing anyone here can say to him at this point that will bring him back to reality. But not everyone can learn from a website or a forum on the internet. Mitch has chosen a 44 year old ukranian women to be his teacher about relationship dynamics. This is totally fine, and we all know that chances are very high that she will teach him a painful lesson – but that is something he obviously really needs. @scribblerg Just want to… Read more »

Matt
Matt
9 years ago

@Mitch I really wish you well on your journey. I have a last, very practical advice for you: the target group of an english blog is pretty big, around 1 billion people in the world can speak at least basic english. To reach this audience, you should consider a less complex domain name – especially the word “circular” is actually pretty uncommon and difficult to spell for a non-native english speaker. I know, because obviously english is not my first language (and i promise you i am a very high educated guy). Don´t know why this is, probably because “circular”… Read more »

newlyaloof
9 years ago
workingonred
workingonred
9 years ago

Many men ignore the fact that women have their own desires and agendas that may not coincide with their own. Some of it is willful ignorance, some of it naivete, and some of it solipsism. Many men, especially betas, are straightforward, logical, and honest when dealing with people. These men have a hard time understanding the vague way that women communicate and don’t “just get it”. They don’t realize that women may not be as honest or moral in their deal-making re: sex and commitment and therefore don’t even try to cover their ass in case they are being scammed.… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
9 years ago

Sentient

I believe you. HABD and all here are doing yeoman’s work. Laters.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
9 years ago

Oh. I want to thank Not Born This Morning too. Nice analysis.

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Scribblerg Bottom’s Up indeed a little masculine jolt for the day “Bottoms Up!” I’ve been sitting here ’bout half the night. Oh, mama, fill my cup up. Said I came to waste some time. I think I’m gonna jump up. I’m singin’, I’m dancin’ most every night. And I want to do that with you babe. Let’s do this bottle right. Oh, oh, baby, bottoms up. Pretty maids, all in a row, go on, set ’em up, up. Come um um um um um, baby, bottoms up. I’m singin’, I’m dancin’ most every night. And I want to do that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

@Mitch : “You’re killing me. Bro, I am not here to sell you a goddamn thing. I swear.” You are swearing to a prima facie absurdity from your first sentence. From there you went on to act like a kid who has just learned to tie his own shoes and goes around showing all the grown ups how it’s done. Then, when some of them point out that the next step is learn how to tie a square knot, you accuse them of belonging to a “square knot cult.” I don’t know what’s best for you, but I know what’s… Read more »

rugby11
9 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Still a good read
http://bit.ly/2dglQ1Q

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
9 years ago

@workingonred

I think Rollo said it before here that while we might, as men(especially blue pill men) might want to think of relationships as a see-saw where one can simply gain weight and shift the balance of power, it’s really more like a trampoline and whoever stops jumping but doesn’t know how to get off or stay on will get KNOCKED off by the other jumper.

Ah yea it’s the article called Keymasters.

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
9 years ago

@ this point I actually feel sorry for the Ukrainicorn she’s not far off menopause, holding on to the last of her looks and she might actually have to fuck Mitch in Italy!

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago

Well, I think by now it’s apparent that Mitch is actually Wild Man. I had my suspicions when I was writing this post, but I felt “Mitch’s” Blue Pill failures stood as a good review for how his mindest functions. A few months back I think it was either Scray or YaReally who were commenting about how they couldn’t believe that guys actually think like this, but they do, and they cling to that Blue Pill hope because it’s the only thing they know. There’s that line in the Matrix where Morpheus apologizes to Neo for ‘awakening’ him at such… Read more »

Matt
Matt
9 years ago

@Playdontpay: ROFL. comment of day.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

@stuffin: It is my theory that until one has some experience that smashes these ideals,they are still emotionally attached to them and will twist reality into an understandable vision. Sure, I agree with that theory. (Btw, this exchange is helping me a lot in understanding new things. Clarifying for me. If it’s helping other guys who may or may not be posting, great. But if not, I’ll just say thank you because…you’re gonna love this…it is helping clarify my decision to propose to my “Ukrainicorn”.(still the scare quotes)) Speaking of experience, have you ever had the experience of missionary sex,… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

@Rollo: Mitch, you still didn’t answer me when I asked why you texted that you ‘loved’ this woman after only a sexless week. Rollo, I don’t owe you an answer or an explanation for anything. It is none of your business why I did what I did. If I feel like sharing that with you, I will. I’m trying not to be peevish here, btw. But it’s this continual insistence by you men that I must explain myself to you all, in order to receive your acceptance and confirmation that I am indeed progressing on the way to RP nirvana.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“(just theorizing here guys, not telling anybody what to do…)”

I wish I could unread that, because it is making me feel nauseous.

YaReally
9 years ago

@Blaximus @SJF @Sentient @Rollo “Lol. Maaannnn…. I’m starting to get extremely tired of the whole married=blue pill nonsense and I feel a YaReally 36 inch long text-a-palooza, with bad words, in the near future.” lol I don’t know why you OMGs are on Mitch’s case. He’s doing everything you guys told him to: – He’s vetted for a special unicorn that isn’t like all those bar sluts staring at their phone screens (EE chick isntead of UMC/religious) – He’s picked a woman from the same generation as your wives (since you guys don’t have experience legally monoLTR’ing <25yo 8+/10s past… Read more »

Sundawner
Sundawner
9 years ago

First post here. Rollo, thanks for your great work. I experienced break up with BPD chick that tore my heart to shreds only to find the same unicorn cheating on me. I bought both of your books and it made so much sense. Now, I see the world for how it truly is. I see Mitch’s story even with my Eastern European buddies all the time. They go back to Europe, because North American chicks are “just not the same”. It is true to a point as feminism in North America is more prevalent and Europeans will still not accept… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Yareally Why do you keep posting this? – He’s picked a woman from the same generation as your wives (since you guys don’t have experience legally monoLTR’ing <25yo 8+/10s past the NRE stage in 2016) Since you have agreed YOU aren’t and haven’t done this either? I can only conclude it some kind of autism, the same kind that prevents you from understanding the answers to the other things you pose here that are clearly nothing at all what any of us have advocated. Lame. Now do you get why we are pushing back so hard on your shitty keyboard… Read more »

SJB
SJB
9 years ago

@YaReally: I don’t know why you OMGs are on Mitch’s case. He’s doing everything you guys told him . . .

Does he even lift?

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Mitch Someone asked maybe in the previous thread what my father would say about what I’m contemplating. My father has said nothing, and would never say anything or give any indication of approval or disapproval about my decision. He has no need to judge it one way or the other because it’s none of his business. Growing up with a dad like this is why I learned to trust myself so early in life. I can not remember a time when I didn’t trust myself. Was joining the Moonies a mistake? Nope. LOL. I asked you this. You display the… Read more »

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
9 years ago

@ Mitch, Rollo, All I think we all owe Mitch an apology, he is in fact the pioneer of “unicorn game”. When I decide that a 44 year old post wall, almost menopausal, Ukrainian war baby is my dream girl I will buy his book/subscribe to his blog. It can’t be easy persuading such a prize “to give us the time of day as she has so much pride” so I think we need his help on this! They say “always look for a niche in the market” and I think unicorn game could be the next big thing. Mitch… Read more »

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
9 years ago

I have been following the ‘Mitch’ threads closely on both posts and I have a wild hypothesis: ‘Mitch’ is, in reality, an extremely butch lesbian woman (there are quite a few tells in the language she uses, e.g. “you men…”) who is doggedly pursuing a desperate, ticking-clock, post-wall Ukrainian woman that will do almost anything to get over to the States, but isn’t internally down to even fake lesbian sex. The Ukrainicorn is merely keeping the channel open in case no other viable offers come along in the interim. I’ve seen this kind of dogged, obsessive, scolding, posturing, rationalizing with… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

Lol..

” – He’s picked a woman who probably doesn’t use social media much and didn’t grow up with it and probably gives him her full attention because her phone isn’t going off 24/7 because she doesn’t have a horde of 1000s of orbiters being a 44yo post-wall woman istead of a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016…"'

What did I tell you?

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

Phone 24/7

Thousands of orbiters…

2016

Broken record

Excuses.

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

” ‘Mitch’ is, in reality, an extremely butch lesbian woman . . .”

. . . with a kickstand.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@YaReally You know you can get away with your logical fallacies in regards to the OMG’s. So you keep it up. You are misrepresenting my inscrutable position. There is not resonance, nothing about Mitch that has anything to do with my opinions. The Ukrainian is not a unicorn. She has no desire to fuck him before he finds value in here after. That is just silly. A man should always fuck first and verify value later. Social media doesn’t actually matter to having a in real life relationship with a woman. All women use social media as a buffer. And… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

You guys are awesome. The hive mind is strong here. When I decide that a 44 year old post wall, almost menopausal, Ukrainian war baby is my dream girl I will buy his book/subscribe to his blog. How does this make sense. I don’t get it. I’m not trying sell her on *you* guys. Saying she’d be so great for you. She’s great for me. I think we all owe Mitch an apology, he is in fact the pioneer of “unicorn game”. I will *totally* keep you posted on how this goes. Not because I’m sure that all will be… Read more »

jamesd127
jamesd127
9 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

” She’s great for me.”

No Mitch, she is not great for you.

And if she is, there are a hundred other elderly post wall women eagerly waiting in line.

YaReally
9 years ago

@Sentient “Since you have agreed YOU aren’t and haven’t done this either?” lol I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. The difference between us is that other guys who ARE trying to monoLTR these girls and get them to ditch social media and orbiters etc, who are reporting what’s happening infield when they try to do it, can’t pull it off either. So if none of THEM can pull it off, and none of YOU have pulled it off, it’s pretty silly to act like your keyboard theory holds up. You’re the ones proposing something silly. Until you’ve… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

I almost forgot! I lived in an intentional community out in the woods for 6 months – a modern version of hippy commune. Man, some of those hippie chicks are cuuuute.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

I mean look at this shit, he just wrote about his life experience JUST LIKE YOU OMGs:

your just jealous…

If you live life in such a way that you view everything as a learning experience, then I’m going to assert that after 50 years, I have enough experience to decide for my own fucking self what I should do next.

What the fuck? Are you *still* going to tell me about me? About what’s best for me? What is wrong with you? Talk about hamster.

YaReally
9 years ago

@Mitch “your just jealous…” lol believe me there is nothing about your position and the path you’re headed down that I am jealous of lol “If you live life in such a way that you view everything as a learning experience, then I’m going to assert that after 50 years, I have enough experience to decide for my own fucking self what I should do next.” Hey man, I AGREE with you! These guys should lay off and encourage you to get married to this chick. They spent entire threads telling me that I’m an idiot who doesn’t know anything… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

I got a challenge for you guys.

For 48 hours, completely detach yourself from all social media and all RP related content, and all RP related people. Don’t talk, read or practice RP for 48 hours.

Then, come back and report your experience immediately after – as in don’t fortify yourself with any TRM essays, or supportive texts from RP friends, or anything like that.

Just try it. I dare you.

SJB
SJB
9 years ago

. . . I’m going to assert that after 50 years, I have enough experience to decide for my own fucking self what I should do next.

Indeed. And you also know, experientially, of the billions of people on the earth, only a few give a shit what you decide

You have been posed the question “what makes you think this woman gives a shit about you” and your answer is: “My intellect.”

Dude, you really need to lift.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

I’m only in my 30s and have no life experience like them.

No matter what age you are, you have all the experience you need to figure out for yourself what your next move should be. Trust yourselves – and get better at trusting yourself by dealing with and getting out of whatever scrapes you get yourself into. That includes relationships.

jamesd127
jamesd127
9 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

Any male, regardless of age, income, or looks, who gives a post menopausal woman the time of day, is blue pill

And blue balls.

I am sixty four and fat and bald and only modestly wealthy. But I don’t date post menopausal woman, and if my only alternative to post menopausal women was porn, whores and whiskey, would choose porn, whores and whiskey.

But as it happens I generally manage a better alternative to porn, whores , and whiskey.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

Dude, you really need to lift

Lift? another piece of Jargon? I don’t know that one.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

If you feel anxious about trying my benign little experiment, you’re ensnared. And you will not be a free man until you disentagle yourself.

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ YaReally should just stop now Keyboard theory?? You haven’t had a relationship to speak of, first of all. that thing you posted here when asked about a relationship? Lmao, that wasn’t a relationship man. You know what you are doing man? You talk an awful, awful lot of shit. This rut that you are in about the pedestal you are trying to create for all men, The ” monoLTR’ing <25yo 8+/10s past the NRE stage in 2016" bullshit you are desperately clinging to as The Ultimate, well, have you done this? If not, why not? And not to engage… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Mitch is a straight up idiot trying to qualify to the adherents of this blog discussing poor tactics, in fact ugly tactics. No thing he has ever said is endorsed by me. None of what YaReally responds to in regards to the OMG’s is remotely plausible because is is a false premise. And Big Al is not even closely related to Mitch. I don’t buy your arguments YaReally. All false premise. Because of lack of value on the different sides of the court. And you have no understanding of mine. Because of too much insulation around you. And just so… Read more »

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

“Is it arrogance to view my journey through life as a series of learning experiences?” Yes. “Why?” Because (by your own admission) you haven’t learned anything by them. “What is it called when you believe that if you just had the right information, you can control what happens in your life? . . . I don’t understand you guys.” Boy howdy. Perhaps if you stopped mistaking us for the voices in your head. ” . . . I have expounded at great length about some of my experiences.” It might have been the wiser course to have remained silent and… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
9 years ago

Mitch, I hope you’re broke so this woman can only stitch you for the green card. If you’re financially secure (house, car, investments), then expect to lose the lot in the next 5 years. The adage “I feel, therefore I don’t have to think.” is suppose to represent women. Though it equally applies to men as well. What you feel towards this woman is born out of desperation and frustration. You’ve obviously hit a dry spell and went online seeking women who were desperate themselves. You need this woman to be subordinate, appreciative and needy of your person. In short… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Mitch LOL. I asked you this. You display the same kind of arrogance here…, Is it arrogance to view my journey through life as a series of learning experiences? Why? It’s arrogance to have a resource like your esteemed father, received at court no less, and not simply ask his opinion of major life decisions like dropping out of college to join a cult or marry a 44YO who won’t have sex with you… especially when you tell us your dad was the shit and you looked up to him. Lot of arrogance to intentionally ignore him and do your… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@Sentient I hate to be more simple minded than I really am. I watched more of the Showtime The Affair. In parallel, watching first and second season. The exposition was more deep than I realized by just watching the first 6 episodes of season II. So now I “just get it”. The entertainment value and the intrigue and your resonance with it. And heheh, your investment in the theme. I get that. Mr. Noah. Without judgement at all. A great study of human action. Not bragging on me but the greatest problem I have these days is calming my ego… Read more »

mersonia
9 years ago

@Blaximus

“You’ve DRAGGED this stupid argument on and on for 4 fucking threads now.”

We thought ya died….and you dragged it on ……….

but “Its opposite day” whenever something you say …..yeah… you didn’t say what you said for sure.

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

It’s arrogance to have a resource like your esteemed father, received at court no less, and not simply ask his opinion of major life decisions like dropping out of college to join a cult or marry a 44YO who won’t have sex with you… especially when you tell us your dad was the shit and you looked up to him I told you that my father *never* gave us advice about what we should do. Not even when we were little. He would model his walk – he never talked. If any of us ever made a different choice than… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
9 years ago

Mitch or wild man,utility controler or remodeler? “Speaking of experience, have you ever had the experience of missionary sex, where you are looking directly into her eyes the entire time you are fucking her, all the way through your orgasm? And felt the flood of sensation, not only in your dick, but throughout your entire body? The entire time you’re fucking her. This is an example of the kind of thing she wants from you. Intense emotional experience. This is what she craves. I know this. This kind of sex never gets boring, but it’s not easy to keep that… Read more »

mersonia
9 years ago

@Mitch “I proposed an experiment. 48 hours w/o RP input. Who will try it? When was the last time you went 48 hours w/o RP input? Ask yourself honestly.” It’s not difficult. well I guess it could be for people who regularly post and enjoy reading rp. “Does the thought of spending 48 hours w/o RP input make you anxious? Ask yourself.” I piss myself every time Mitch “Try it and see what happens. If you are truly seeing things as they really are, this should be no problem for you – especially if you’ve been RP Aware for say,… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
9 years ago

Ok guys, I give up. I’ll leave you to it.

best of luck!

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
9 years ago

This is too funny. I wrote the comments below right after YaReally’s last post, but I hesitated to post it. I Command X’d it, for possibly a later moment. Wouldn’t you know, the two guys I specifically mentioned below jumped right in with the same crap in the same predictable fashion. lol Come on guys, you’re better than that. Here’s the original comment I didn’t post: @YaReally The hyper-vocal OMGs here are going to keep throwing the same Old Skool Curriculum Vitae and ‘years-on-the-job’ stuff at you as some kind of RP social proof as to why you’re wrong/belligerent/autistic/inexperienced. They’ve… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Blaximus “Keyboard theory??” I don’t see what’s so difficult about this except that you’re emotionally invested in it and can’t admit when you’re theorizing. Have you gotten a <25yo 8+/10 in a monoLTR in 2016 to delete all her social media and orbiters? No? Then by LITERAL DEFINITION your opinion on how to accomplish that is THEORY. Why does that make you so butthurt? Are you so ego invested that you can't even admit that you're theorizing when you haven't actually done something? lol I haven't repaired a modern rocket ship myself…any opinion I have on how to repair a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

newlyaloof
Who Mitch is this?

Thread winner.

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ The Diplomat “…but you’re just not in the demographic market to need to hear what YaReally has been laying down so …” …So why doesn’t he just let it go and talk to his ” audience ” without swinging at me and Rollo and SJF and Sentient constantly? Simple question. He wants to say that marriage is bad. I’ve agreed with him a thousand times, with a caveat. He makes it personal, then feigns that it’s not personal. I too have always said my marriage could blow up tomorrow. The term I used is ” blow up like an… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

kfg
But you might want to consider that you’re doing Beginner Mind wrong. It’s supposed to smarten up chumps, not maintain them as chumps.

“Mitch” claims to be smart. Ok. Take him at his word. Really.

So his version of Beginner MInd is to chumpen up a smarty….

YaReally
9 years ago

@The Diplomat “Keep it going, Ya. You may be staring down a problem that can never be fixed, but I’d wager that there a ton of too-timid-to-post lurkers on here that are carefully weighing and hopefully internalizing the questions and advice you post here on TRM.” Thanks for the support. And that’s literally the only reason I post about the subject. I know I’m not going to convince the OMGs themselves (and don’t care if I do). What I’d like to is convince them to allow us to have a discussion about the changes in society that we’re noticing and… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

Blaximus
…So why doesn’t he just let it go and talk to his ” audience ” without swinging at me and Rollo and SJF and Sentient constantly? Simple question.

Dude, I don’t recall YaReally taking any swings at Rollo. That could be a clue.

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

You have a real reading comprehension problem. Or, you really like just talking shit because no one calls you out on it. What you said I said: So you can throw snarky “36 page reply from YaReally” “you haven’t had a REAL relationship you don’t know shit about life” attacks at me, but when I shovel the shit right back at you I’m the asshole? Do you understand cause and effect? What I said: Lol. Maaannnn…. I’m starting to get extremely tired of the whole married=blue pill nonsense and I feel a YaReally 36 inch long text-a-palooza, with bad words,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

I think Yareally is facing some sort of existential crisis… Now mid 30s with not much to show for it… Clinging to his internet identity… It’s startting to become sad to watch. Never understand guys that are so hostile to other guys successes… Even if it is a road they chose not to travel. So much out and out misrepresentation, desperate tactics, red herrings, strawmen and moved goalposts in every post these days. With a dollop of insults and attempts at shaming… For what end? He says he is the hero of the youngs single guys so the ends justify… Read more »

mersonia
9 years ago

@Blaximus “You have a real reading comprehension problem.” Blax….. You obviously don’t read shit you write …………because you contradict yourself over and over and over and over and over. “Or, you really like just talking shit because no one calls you out on it.” You guys call out ya countless times…………… But for the demographic hes speaking about hes been correct. So why would we call him out for being corrrect. Also you can tell when someone genuinely cares and is trying to help people instead of just stroke his own and cock and type shit that doesn’t benefit anyone… Read more »

kobayashii1681
9 years ago

RE: Mitch: “The reason you don’t trust women is because you don’t trust yourselves. You don’t trust yourselves because you look to the opinions and advice of the men around you to tell you what you should do. The opinion of the herd. But you think you’re such free and independent men. You’re not. You guys are entirely dependent on the validation of the men around you. This is why I am so annoying to you guys. Because I do not depend on your approval or validation in order for me to figure out my path forward. I can hear… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
9 years ago
Reply to  kobayashii1681

This is why I am so annoying to you guys. Because I do not depend on your approval or validation in order for me to figure out my path forward.

Typed by the guy who’s been sock-puppeting a new username 6 times over the course of 2 years in order to tell his Beta confessions here.

kobayashii1681
9 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Like you said Rollo…unplugging someone past a certain age…
He’s so steeped in his blue pill solipsistic nihilism and confirmation bias its sickening; he’s gone all AFC INGSOC on us…
“Jargon” “totalist thought” “cultic thinking”

I’m still waiting for him to answer your question. 😅😅😅 fat chance I guess….

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ YaReally ” Now please let me know if you actually plan to dox me for disagreeing with you so that this can be my last post in the Manosphere if that’s the case and so that future posters can be aware that posting here may result in their doxing by you.” jesus. relax. If you ever listened to me you’d know that I’ve stated that I don’t believe in doxxing people. And if you LISTENED to me, you’d understand that I especially wouldn’t doxx you…because you’re so damned paranoid. Admittedly, that was a bad choice of phrasing on my… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

Lol. Mersonia, go fuck yourself.

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ AR *sigh* you guys can’t see certain things really. He started like this ” @Blaximus @SJF @Sentient @Rollo ” Now, red what he said addressed to the names above. Thanks. Then…addressed directly to Rollo… ” You guys created this and want an echo chamber where discussing the dangers of marriage or the benefits of alternative paths or warning men with stats and trends is shouted down and all advice has to be just slamming people with “tough love” (stupid young people your opinion doesn’t count, just listen to what we old men tell you), so let’s see you fix… Read more »

MrT
MrT
9 years ago

“shittalking our wives”

I hope a post about how young guys are so sensitive these days is in the can. :>

mersonia
9 years ago

“Lol. Mersonia, go fuck yourself.”

Blaximus tune in to channel 293837292

…And Now For your viewing pleasure.

YaReally
9 years ago

@Blaximus “…So why doesn’t he just let it go and talk to his ” audience ” without swinging at me and Rollo and SJF and Sentient constantly? Simple question.” I don’t know, why don’t you just talk to your “audience” without swinging jabs at me with your snarky 36 page and “before YaReally comes to say X” shit? “He makes it personal, then feigns that it’s not personal.” You TAKE disagreement personal. You bring personal things into the discussion and then get pissed off if anyone discusses them. “YaReally seems to get off on deriding older, successfully married guys in… Read more »

MrT
MrT
9 years ago

@diplomat “Keep it going, Ya. You may be staring down a problem that can never be fixed, but I’d wager that there a ton of too-timid-to-post lurkers on here that are carefully weighing and hopefully internalizing the questions and advice you post here on TRM.” I figure if this was the only place where a guy could go and vent about redpill shit, he would be careful about incurring The Wrath of the Old Boys Club. Just look at Andy. Guy was basically Blax’s son until he was seduced by YaReally with his slut-seducing skills (over the internet no less!)… Read more »

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