Stalling for Time

stalled

I was made aware of a trio of rather noteworthy stories last week all of which I found dovetail nicely on topic together. The first was Tweeted to me about the new advent of artificial ovaries and how overjoyed our feminine-concerned social order was that ‘infertile‘ women might have a better chance of conception. The report’s subtitled perspective was, ostensibly, about how making a synthetic home for a woman’s egg-producing follicles could improve fertility after chemotherapy and help women with endometriosis conceive:

Women can become infertile after cancer treatment as the ovaries and the egg-making follicles they contain are vulnerable to chemotherapy, especially for leukaemias, brain cancers and lymphomas. Removing and freezing ovarian tissue beforehand to reimplant after treatment can help women conceive, but there is a risk that this tissue will reintroduce hidden cancer cells.

Call me a cynic, but I think if a woman’s had a cancer serious enough to warrant chemotherapy I’m not sure her capacity to conceive a child is really her most important concern. A noble reasoning to be sure, but another paragraph down and we get to the real reason for the excitement:

“It may be used by women who want to delay having babies or postpone the menopause“

The method could benefit other women, too. “When fully developed, this technology may be used in women who want to delay having babies for social reasons, or who want to postpone the menopause,” says Claus Andersen at the University Hospital of Copenhagen, Denmark.

Ah yes, the Holy Grail of bioengineered gender equalism – a safe and effective means of perpetuating a woman’s fertility well beyond all reason and concern for healthy parenting would otherwise mandate. Nowhere is it mentioned, or are we to politely consider, that women’s real reasons for wanting a safe way to extend their fertility has less to do with ‘infertility’ concerns and a lot more to do with their difficulties in optimizing Hypergamy.

Earlier this year I wrote an essay entitled Assurances in which I argue that women will demand that society and science accommodate and insure their indefinite fertility while they sort out why it is they can’t seem to find the right (and Hypergamously cooperative) guy with which to start a family. I began that article by outlining the recent worker’s benefit of ‘egg freezing’ some larger companies were offering in order to entice (executive level) women to work for them – women, we are meant to presume, are so absorbed by their careers that they need to dedicate their most fertile years to their professional aspirations. All in order to stay on an equal footing with hyper-competitive men of course:

The latent purpose of developing technology to freeze a woman’s eggs, for instance, is to cheat (or give the impression of being able to cheat) the otherwise natural process of fertility that women are beholden to.

The latent purpose of every pop-cultural trend that contributes to the perception that women can realistically exceed the window of their fertility is offered as an assurance that women have more time than would be naturalistically expected to optimize Hypergamy.

Ostensibly, the message for women is the cliché of ‘having it all’ – reassuring women that they can have a rewarding career and make a significant difference in their lives and the lives of others as well as realistically having a meaningful family experience later in life. The unspoken hindbrain message is that a woman has more time to optimize Hypergamy.

I took a lot of criticism for being so presumptuous in that assertion. How dare I suggest that professional women didn’t deserve to be afforded the same opportunities men, who peak in their own SMV well after women’s prime fertility years have passed, had in life, career, and family. The thoroughly modern women of today weren’t forestalling pregnancy because of any personal misgivings or difficulties in attracting Mr. Right, these women needed to freeze their eggs to have more time to develop their careers, don’t you know.

The Real Reason Women are Freezing their Eggs

Turns out, not so much. Actually not at all,…

They are often portrayed as hard-hearted individuals who are putting motherhood on hold in order to climb the career ladder.

But women who freeze their eggs are actually waiting for a man who is perfect father material to come along.

Researcher Kylie Baldwin, who asked a group of women why they froze their eggs, said: ‘I think they were looking for a hands-on father.

‘And it was the absence of this particular type of potential father, not just the absence of any partner, that led them to freeze the eggs.

‘It’s not just about not having the right partner, it’s about having the right dad for their child.’

Interestingly, some of the women were in a relationships – but froze their eggs because they didn’t believe their partner was father material and were hoping someone better would come along.

I should add a side note here and point out the importance these women place having “the right dad for their child.” It’s so important that they’d expect a scientific miracle to give them enough time to find this very important father. However, I’d encourage my readers to compare and contrast this to the complete lack of importance men are expected to place on their own roles as the biological father of a child with regard to raising a child that is not his own. You see, while a woman will freeze her eggs in order to find the perfect hands-on Dad to breed with, men are told that even when a child is not his own he shouldn’t concern himself with his own self-importance in breeding or raising that kid.

This study was an interesting confirmation of the assertions I’d made in Assurances – Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization. Egg freezing isn’t about medical concerns or even professional sacrifices; egg freezing is about Hypergamy and women’s increasingly diminished ability to satisfy it later and later in life. In the manosphere and in my book Preventive Medicine there’s an understanding that women’s Party Years, the years she rides the “cock carousel”, are dedicated to the pursuit of Alpha Fucks – her prime directive is generally focused on a short term breeding strategy. Women’s entitlement extends to the point now that they demand science extend this period and assure them they will have ample time to complete their quest for Beta Bucks, motherhood, provisioning and parental investments indefinitely, or at least as long as men might be able to live up to their peak SMV qualifications.

The women were predominately middle-class and highly educated and were aged 38, on average, when they had their eggs frozen.

Mrs Baldwin, a sociologist, said: ‘I asked them about what their motivations were and I would say none of the women underwent the procedure for career reasons.

‘Instead, it was very often down to their perception that it was not yet the right time for them to be pursuing motherhood for one reason or another.’

And, as you might expect, what article about women’s struggle in finding the right guy would be complete without shaming men for their reluctance to participate in playing the roles the Feminine Imperative demands they play in order to fulfill women’s sexual strategies?

The comments about men’s reluctance to commit echo some made by one of Britain’s leading fertility doctors earlier this year.

Professor Adam Balen, chairman of the British Fertility Society, said: ‘There is a notion that young men are not committed to relationships in the way they have been in the past.

‘Childhood for some men is being extended into 20s and 30s when they’re not committing to a relationship.’

Again, it’s childish men’s fault that women have been brought to egg freezing science. This then brings us full circle to NPR’s recent story about economists “puzzlement” over why men are leaving the workforce in droves.

“I wasn’t going to go back to work. It was almost going to just be a nice transition into retirement for me — a very early retirement. I mean, I’m only 36 years old,” he says.

And if he does go back to work, he worries about the prospects.

“Things move really, really, really quick [in IT], and I’m worried that if we can’t make it work, that I’m going to go looking for a job and they’re going to say two years out of it, ‘Sorry, brother, you don’t have what it takes to work here anymore,’ ” Rekkedal says.

Tara Sinclair, chief economist for job-search site Indeed.com, says brawny jobs are being replaced by brainy ones, and that trend doesn’t favor men.

How’s that for an interesting social cycle?

There’s a common refrain you read in both the femosphere as well as religious bloggers about the state of extended adolescence they believe men are extending today. I even wrote about this ridiculous impression of men’s clinging to juvenility in Are You Experienced.

Men forestalling their “adulthood” – a characterization that is entirely dependent on how well a man aligns with women’s imperatives – by dropping out, or otherwise not preparing to be a potential provider for a family a woman deems is at last necessary to her, are considered ‘kidults’ or extending their adolescent years. Professor Adam Balen in the egg freezing article says men are extending “childhood” into their 20s and 30s.

Ironically, you’ll find the most ardent critics of extended adolescence in the writings of Man-up-and-marry-those-sluts religious male bloggers intent on virtue signaling their acceptability to women who will benefit most from their ‘manning up’ and overlooking their Party Years indiscretions.

On the other hand, women wishing to forestall motherhood – a characterization which used to imply a woman’s entrance into adulthood – are never characterized as “extending their childhood.” Women who opt to delay marriage can always fall back on the unacceptability of ‘most men these days’ to excuse their own extension, or they are “focusing on their career.” Women can never be cast in any way other than Strong and Independent®. In fact, this is the first, default presumption we make about a never-married or never-mothered woman.

The Daily Mail article about the truths of women’s reasoning for freezing their eggs puts the lie to this presumption. Women’s latent purpose in egg freezing is to extend fertility until their ideal Alpha man arrives in their lives.

Then, of course the blame become circular on men – men not accepting the role that open Hypergamy expects them to already be aware of and accept wholesale makes him guilty of extending his childhood. Women then blame their spinsterhood on a lack of acceptable ‘adult’ men.

There is never any incentive for personal insight on the part of women, not even when she’s far past her reasonably fertile years, to say nothing of her capacity to intersexually compete with her sisters for those acceptable men. Nowhere is there an afterthought that acceptable men would actively avoid her or find her unacceptable for his own long term investment.

Advancing Gender Dynamics

Finally, we need to add to this the obscene amounts of on-tap social validation women enjoy today. I’m not the first author to recognize or write about this, but there is a very real psychological dynamic that humans in this era have had to deal with which no other previous generations had to consider. Our capacity for technological advancement has progressed so quickly over the past century (and 16 years) that human beings are scarcely capable of understanding what these advancements imply to us as a society and largely as a species.

One reason I believe evolutionary psychology will always have a place in the manosphere and Red Pill discussion is because it aids us in understanding how our minds have evolved and what we can expect from ourselves, or cultures our intersexual dynamics in the context of how we’re experiencing these technological advancements. I had a reader tell me once about how appalled his grandmother was at the idea of a sperm bank when they first appeared. Today it’s part of the scenery, but when they appeared it was scandalous to the mindset of that era’s acculturation. Fast forward from the 1960s to now; in just over half a century think of the tech advancements we have with us today that we take for granted, but our grandparents would marvel over. Now think about how those advancements are interpreted by our hindbrains in so short a time.

Communications technologies, and now a social media explosion, affect our very plastic, yet feral hindbrains in ways that our new globalizing culture can’t keep pace with. I bring this up, because it’s important to consider how women’s feral selves are affected by an instantaneous attention and affirmation that previous generations of women craved, but never dreamed of having this kind of facility with.

As the conversation is won’t to do on this blog’s comment threads, the topic du jour picked up on the merits, or lack thereof, of monogamy vs. legal marriage vs. pLTRs (primary long term relationships or ‘plural’ long term relationships as the term fits). I’ll be addressing this in the next post, but I’ll foreshadow a bit with this; sifting through one of his usually long comments, this bit from YaReally stuck with me (emphasis mine):

“But even if your Game is as tight as YaReally’s, try interesting a modern young chick in commitment. Go ahead. You’ll be in for a shock. A woman in her prime years is so high on a never ending validation train that she’s sure it will never end. Why should she commit? There’s no incentive to do so. She always branch swings to better, and better is always available before she’s even tired of what she’s got.”

You hear them say “I wouldn’t give up my social media for that dream guy”, but you don’t hear why they won’t. The “why” is what we’re up against. They are conditioned to think they will never hit the wall, Amy Schumer at 45 gets the rich doctor in the end, they have endless offers of commitment and monkey branch higher and higher up the tree in their prime.

I have fuckbuddies who’ve disqualified high status guys. and rich jacked 6-pack dudes for like one or two errors. My favorite was one who disqualified a guy because the area of medicine he picked to specialize in wasn’t EXCITING ENOUGH. So she interpreted that as him not having enough ambition. She turned him down for such a silly reason. But why wouldn’t she? She has dates lined up anytime she wants with guys as high value or higher than him around the block whenever she wants. If she takes care of herself the attention train won’t stop till 35+. Why would she want to limit her Hypergamous options by settling in her early 20s?

That’s why those girls look at you funny when you suggest giving up social media. They can’t comprehend any reason TO. It doesn’t compute.

In a globalizing culture where both science and social order is predicated on the satisfaction of women’s imperatives, why indeed would any woman believe she isn’t entitled to it all? Both technology and social reengineering have placed women into a position where their hindbrains cannot hope to interpret the experiences they afford, much less have the attention span necessary for the insight to process how they should best cope with changes they’re scarcely aware of or take for granted.

This post is the first in a series detailing the contrast between how our evolved biological natures conflict and cope with the changes our rapid advancement demands of us, and how our intersexual and social relations are changing as a result of it.

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply to BlaximusCancel reply

329 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
YaReally
7 years ago

@Sentient
“Freedom.”

Too vague an answer. What objective observable freedom do I get by fighting 3 guys in a nightclub over a girl I’ve just met when I could just shrug and walk away?

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

If you need to ask “why”, you’re not the right guy.

Not everyone is game. Don’t sweat it.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Razorwire Excellent post. Describes SO FUCKING MANY girls that I’ve met to a fucking T lol Fucking hilarious, you nailed that shit. @Jonah Hill I feel bad for him because he DID legitimately lose weight and get skinny for a while but then no one thought he was as funny as when he was the funny fat guy (and I don’t think he knew how to handle looking different, he always seemed to dodge questions about his weight loss and try to change the subject when people asked him about it, I think he was uncomfortable in his new skin,… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

No thanks:

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ YaReally That’s why I asked the question. Thanks for your reply. I don’t have the same view ( surprise ) because of a different experience in life. I learned very early in life to ” do for self ” ( that’s the exact phrase going back to the 60’s ). But giving in is not an option. I don’t expect recognition from anyone. I do what I want, and sometimes I compromise and do what I must. But I never linger in thought. I asked the question because I’m trying to have where men, young and old, come down… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Rollo

I was referring to a general mindset. I’m trying to see what the baseline attitudes are generally.

My intent was more of finding out if most men are willing to fight for themselves. Not to lay down easily.

The past few days of comments have made me more curious to learn more about where men’s mindsets are in general, because I must be living in my own private Idaho.

Just trying to gain a wider understanding.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ YaReally

Just for clarification purposes, I have never counciled any man ever to ‘ self sacrifice”.

I’m speaking strictly about a man’s desire to stand up for himself and not just fold.

Is this an outdated reference now? I thought it had a clearer meaning.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

If you ever come upon me defending a line in the sand, I drew it there, for my own reasons.

And having drawn it, it’s my responsibility.

Matt
Matt
7 years ago

Chad Spermbanks + Low T men to become fathers after decades of being snubbed by women is the way of the future. The longer women hold out, the thirstier these betas get. There will be no marriage wall for women when it comes to sniveling betas. They will gladly be going over the local sperm donor photobook to select the “breeder”. I hate to say it, but revenge fantasies about the wall are likely to fall short. Sure, her alpha bucks won’t be available for marriage, but she WILL find a “dad to be a hands on parent” as long… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Blax Go down fighting or nah. +1 to what YaReally said. Show me a reason worth it. As it is, the only thing worth fighting for in this life is me, myself, and I. And even that has had days where I doubt it’s worth it just to keep existing in a world where I felt so fucking useless. Me. A brilliant, good looking guy in great shape with a great ability to talk to people. When the world is making guys like that feel useless? I won’t go down fighting for it. I fight only for myself as I… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@Yareally wait, what? How did Blax: “C’mon gents. Pipe up. Go down fighting [The Power] or nah.” You: “Give us a reason/benefit” Sentient: Freedom Me: If you have to ask why, you’re not the right guy. get turned into a homeless dude getting stabbed whiteknighting a girl? @Rollo I took Blax’s question to be about what would you do when your back’s up against the wall and you are out of options. Go down swinging, or “You don’t need to do this. we can talk about this! wait! wait! AHHHH!”. Truth is, nobody can really know until they are put… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Sun

Thanks. That’s what I’m speaking of. Fighting for one’s self.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Okay. Maybe I was too vague. I didn’t think that guys would automatically think about others before themselves.

I’m self absorbed. Lol. I’m the new Brawny man.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Rollo https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/13/stalling-for-time/#comment-169623 @Rollo @Blaximus “Cosign YaReally’s comment on going down swinging. I posted that Pulp Fiction vid because it’s always struck me as an illustration of how a man’s sense of honor is now more of a liability than the virtue it used to be under the old set of books and the traditional social contract.” Basically we had it used to control us a SHITLOAD for the benefit of other people who barely even appreciate it now (or worse punish us for it)…Blaximus was probably REWARDED for following those codes, back in his day, so there was a benefit… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

http://www.factzoo.com/sites/all/img/mammals/weasel/honey-badger-dont-care-just-chillin.jpg

What use is it?

“He is looking for a type of dude.”

Sorting the honey badgers from the rabbits.

You don’t have to ask what use a rabbit is. Damned near everything in the universe knows what a rabbit is for:

Lunch.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@Rollo “making a dent in the universe is what I intend to do. How I go about doing that and making it something that benefits other men is worth going down swinging for so long as men carry on with the ideas I leave them with.” I missed it the first time, so wanted to say that this is the kind of swinging that has the most power and we all owe you for your hard work. You do make sacrifices to do what you do and every guy owes you or eventually will. The more we can leverage what… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@Yareally “My generation is just so tired of being used for other people’s purposes, our needs and desires ignored, shamed, called “toxic masculinity” and told to stay in our place and do what we’re told.”

Would you be willing to join a grassroots political movement if you felt that it could effectively pushback against this and other mistreatments? There would be sacrifices, especially of free time, but would it be worth it to you?

YaReally
7 years ago

@Via Vitae “Would you be willing to join a grassroots political movement if you felt that it could effectively pushback against this and other mistreatments? There would be sacrifices, especially of free time, but would it be worth it to you?” It would depend entirely on the movement, the purpose, the other people involved, the risks involved and whether the benefits outweigh them etc. If the case is solid then it should be easy for the people involved to present that case convincingly and if I’m convinced then sure I’m on board. Saying “would you sign a contract” is a… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

You can pretty much expect that you will end up on a government list. You in?

YaReally
7 years ago

@Via Vitae
I think you and I have different definitions of “presenting a case” and “providing details” lol More info required.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

Well, you could always just volunteer an example with acceptable parameters. That might be faster than playing Monty Python Cheese Shoppe.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Via Vitae
lol wut? Why am I supposed to provide the example? You’re the one asking me if I’d join some kind of movement. If you have a good movement that has a good case and I see benefit in it then sure I’d join it. If you don’t then I wouldn’t. I don’t know what you want ME to come up with here lol

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

Its all good. I was actually just pinging off your “we” speech. You sounded passionate. I was just speaking in that moment to whether or not you’d be up to take things farther. Like could you see yourself ever making such a speech in front of a room of real guys, maybe guys on the fence. Or it really could be anything, but obviously something more to just us guys talking to each other on this board. Have you ever wondered about doing something more?

YaReally
7 years ago

@Via Vitae “Like could you see yourself ever making such a speech in front of a room of real guys, maybe guys on the fence.” Sure, if I thought I could reach them and wouldn’t suffer severe consequences for it (because there are alternative ways for them to get the same information with no risk of consequences). I talk about red pill stuff with guys I trust in real life all the time lol (if we’re out at a bar together you’re basically getting a free bootcamp from me if you want it while we go have fun) But Tyler/RSD… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Via Vitae Guy who wrote that Tyler Vice article: http://nxne.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PatrickMcGuire.jpg Because of course lol Notice how the Vice article and all the people in that RVF meetup video are men, playing white knight and virtue signalling. This is why I ask “why?” when someone I don’t know tries to get me to do something for secret/vague reasons. These guys have been fed bullshit by the mainstream media about what the RVF guys were about, and fed bullshit about “being a man” and protecting women etc. That kid in the hoodie was willing to pull out a gun on a man… Read more »

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
7 years ago

So if guys are going to try to have kids ANYWAY, then just like we figured out pickup, we should put our heads together and figure out a better safer system. Like, the % of men who absolutely have no reproductive/sexual drive/instinct at ALL (if there were no negative conseqeunces to acting on it with girls they think are attractive) is very low. So I say it’s time to find a new strategy to offer them, just like we offered pickup to men who were failing at a system stacked against them. I understand after that last thread that this… Read more »

platinumj > Platinum Patriarch
platinumj > Platinum Patriarch
7 years ago

fuck self sacrifice. i do what i want with/to/for whom i want. cosign @blax from the last thread everything comes from the man. he is the center of his familial universe. he is the sun. they orbit. mpo instetstellar bodies may drop in from time to time. enjoy. sometimes planets die. zfg, infinite universe n all. my kids came from my balls. i put them in my wifes uterus. ME. she got lucky. and overconfident. i explicated my dissatisfaction. then demonstrated the repercussions. she still hopes for a reunion. lol for a long time i wished it was easier. now… Read more »

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Blax, my dad was old school, so he told us siblings that if someone hit us, to hit them back harder. He said, “Don’t worry about your teachers or the principal. We’ll deal with them.” But he also taught us to never start trouble. Approval to hit back at school was a revaluation to a young boy. My family apparently was operating under a different rule book than what the schools were teaching. And in my neighborhood, you fought or you got your ass kicked anyway, so we had a good training ground to nurture the “fight back” attitude. When… Read more »

Platinum Patriarch
Platinum Patriarch
7 years ago

“white knighting is out of the question unless it’s for a family member or close friend, and that family member or close friend better not have been acting up and starting trouble, or I will reconsider standing up for them.”

this. my sisters don’t come to me with their problems. they know i’ll rp them and they hate that shit lol. been doin before i knew what the red pill even was. growing up with younger sisters def gives great insight into how they really are. i wonder what it woulda been like if i was the youngest sometimes.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
7 years ago

YaReally, Sentient Hank HABD Scray – pickup gang. Right guys, back to talking to girls. I have a two week Blitz starting today. Tonight I’m gonna be cruising solo at the Latin dance club I go to a couple times a week when I’m on a blitz. Not getting totally drunk like I did last time. One question: I’ve seen a lot of the RSD guys (Julien Jeffy Madison..most of them really) talk about how a huge chunk of their pulling results is in the latter half of the night – when “drunk time” starts and conversation becomes difficult. Because… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Yareally @Sentient “Freedom.” Too vague an answer. What objective observable freedom do I get by fighting 3 guys in a nightclub over a girl I’ve just met when I could just shrug and walk away? The ability to make that choice is a demonstration. It’s not a vague answer, it is lack of understanding. Hollenhund these men won’t form families. Exactly… the ghetto examples are not unchained hypergamy, because the women are not monkey branching and are not getting any provisioning or commitment from the guys. They cannot get either, at all. It’s the guys who are the most feral.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Culum

Umm, what do I actually DO then?

Short answer…. lead. Boyfriend dominant kino and lead. Momentum is your friend.

Longer answer coming… the crux is you don’t have to wait until closing time, if you lead you can pull at 8, 9, 10 etc. Your issue to date is you spend too much time with them, miss the chance to lead off solid attraction spikes and are then caught cycling around A/C/R without an exit.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ newlyaloof Exactly. I grew up splitting my time between urban and rural. In both settings you had to stand up to blatant challenges. If you did so, it just became a part of life. Like bad weather. And to a man, the men I know irl all feel the same. What I’ve seen is with that mindset going away, for whatever reason, it makes life worse for young men overall. Violence becomes glorified instead of just being a tool. Young men still need an ultimate way of conflict resolution. Guns are easy if you can’t or won’t fight. It… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
7 years ago

The Wall is kind of different depending on the woman. In the case of every woman, her opportunities for men are much smaller at 42 than at 22. That’s obvious. But not all 42 yo women are in the same boat. A 42 yo who “takes care of herself” (combination of eating, fitness (trainers help), surgery — optimally all three together) will still get a LOT of male attention from men between 30(ish) and 50, both on social media and in the flesh. A 42 yo frump won’t get as much (she’ll still get some lower quality attention, but much… Read more »

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Blax, our kids are primarily taught by women, and they try to beat the boy out of boys, so at every opportunity, we have to counter that with our own sons. I make my son hit the heavy bag, do pushups and pull ups every day. At the end of the session, I always ask, “Son, and why are we doing this again?” And he replies, “So bullies won’t mess with me!” Currently, he gives up too easily and likes to do brain-game stuff more than physical activity, so I have to really push him through his resistance, but he… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

@blax “In my opinion, and it might be a bit conspiratorial, but I believe the agenda of teaching non violence is solely to subdue men and take away their last, ultimate option in life.” I think you’re right. “Toxic Masculinity” is just a variation on the theme. The weak use their collective strength to shame the powerful into abdicating theirs. At the end of the day, Patrice was right lol. If a man’s natural strength is physical, it’s obvious who benefits when that strength is neutered. On your “go down swinging question” I’d only go down swinging (die) for self… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

Nova

Historically, fertility and beauty were one in the same. When those diverge, when doe she see the wall? With her inevitable armageggon, or with the falling sand of her hourglass figure?

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ newlyaloof

Isn’t that interesting? The schools are the biggest source of the ” don’t fight back ” mentality, yet they are also” Bully Central ” for kids.

You are right in how you’re teaching your son. Even if his interest wanes, he will at a minimum understand the mechanics of a punch.

I have a 47: year old coworker that is 100% clueless about self defense.

He tries to engage in some rough housing with some other coworkers, but just winds up getting pummeled constantly. He cannot even throw a punch.

So teach that he will know.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
7 years ago

Historically, fertility and beauty were one in the same. When those diverge, when doe she see the wall? With her inevitable armageggon, or with the falling sand of her hourglass figure? It all has to do with male attention. As long as she can generate attention from men she wants to, she senses the decline less. They all sense some decline — even a hot 42 yo doesn’t get the same attention as a hot 22 yo. But she gets enough to motivate her to continue to seek it out as she has become addicted to for 25 years. Fertility… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

Nova

I get the feeling the wall will hit a lot harder for these women ..maybe wishful thinking

And as for sexy mommies, I prefer the term “yummy mummy”

Ang Aamer
7 years ago

Great post Rollo I especially like the YaReally quote. One thing I am seeing is younger women in say their mid 20s starting to become hyper interested in techniques to snag a quality man. They are into fashion, makeup and interpersonal skills. They are going to school again to maximize their skills to bag a quality mate. One of the things I tell the ones who are nominally honest with me is that wisdom comes with experience. But by the time a woman gains experience she has lost her greatest asset her beauty. So in essence when women learn how… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
Reply to  Ang Aamer
Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Blax, newlyaloof I tried teaching my friend’s little brother how to throw some punches. A little too ADD to really learn, but a little bit did click. Knowing how to throw a solid punch is a huge confidence booster. Most people think of winding up a punch or throwing windmills. When you know how to use your feet and hips to generate torque to literally “throw” the punch (your arms are basically just along for the ride), and you see how hard you can really hit, it’s motivating. Side note: I’m a big fan of water bags. If you… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ YaReally It can be argued that Internet porn is the same thing for men that modern Open Hypergamy is for women, in the unnatural amount of novelty/variety/options it provides. Only difference? Men are shamed for it while women are not, as you’ve pointed out before. 50 Shades, Tinder, Facebook/Twitter/Instagram Orbiters, endless Alpha fucks, and now egg freezing….nobody sees this as “unnatural,” and yet we have an entire website dedicated to porn addiction aimed at….guess who? Men. The bar is constantly being set higher for men while it’s being set lower and lower for women. Women are being given every… Read more »

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
7 years ago

“Just trying to gain a wider understanding.”

—Blaximus

I don’t buy that it was some innocent query. I think you were trying to bring in a boat load of connotation and insinuation with that little survey.
You just found another ‘Man Up’ nerve to prod.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Lol. Ulterior motives??

Nah. I don’t roll like that. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@Yollo I checked out that endgame book site you mentioned. It sounded decent, getting to a strong frame from another direction. But that’s just from the free literature on the site. I did not buy the book to see if it delivers the goods. Maybe when you finish it you can say what you think.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

I am trying to get other perspectives. It will assist me in understanding others as well as myself.

Sorry is this is a foreign concept for you.

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
7 years ago

Naw. It was a Trojan Horse for your self-congratulation.

.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Lol. Okay.

itispacs
itispacs
7 years ago

After reading both RM books I must say I am extremely interested in all the challenging ideas, I do however have some questions:

First of all, I can see how open hypergamy is awful if you are the BB part of the deal and end up raising other (AF) men children. On an evolutionary perspective however, only the most valuable genes would have a chance to reproduce which seems like something extremely desirable, so why is open hypergamy bad (aside from the fact that it only benefits the Alpha Fucks side of the scale).

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
7 years ago

Yeah I thought it was funny also.

gb_hill
gb_hill
7 years ago

So for you younger guys, what I would say is this: the women of your generation, even more than the women of mine, are going to fight, fight, fight to hold on to their sexual allure by any means possible for as long as possible They have a big disadvantage; the ubiquity of high calorie, good tasting, addictive food. It is very hard to stay thin in today’s world. But your general point is right. That there are some 40+ women who will maintain their looks and their SMV for longer. But from what I see, I would say that… Read more »

gb_hill
gb_hill
7 years ago

This is aimed to push that back by decades, so that she can maximize the time that she ha sexual allure as her main power base. Won’t really work. Nothing short of biologic youth extension will keep an aging woman sexually attractive. Of course if woman can have test tube babies (or whatever) in their 40s and 50s many of them will but the quality of men most of those women will get in their late 30s on up will be of increasingly lower value. And also, women lose energy in their 50s. Many women won’t chose to have children… Read more »

gb_hill
gb_hill
7 years ago

@Culum If this were a body building forum, I would call you a “hard gainer”. But I guess I’ll just call you a “hard case”. In any event watch this guys infields: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxryPhmVOa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcxACmBmNZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SrXcZgXsWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdlFOxtlvwA He was a former RSD assistant and now he is trying to build a PUA Youtube channel and a business. He is hungry and 5 years in the game. He’s good without being splashy and he is not smooth. His game looks like what a guy practicing game should look like. Watch his infields and see what the actual process looks like. He gives… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . why is open hypergamy bad . . .”

Because it leaves out the 90% of the men who 99.999% of the work.

having a bad day
having a bad day
7 years ago

@Culum hank

note for you…

re YaReally’s video at that chick has buy-in at :50…you can almost see her hamster working…lol… just from tyler’s subcomms/laser EC… @Culum see how fast that works?…lol…

good luck!

having a bad day
having a bad day
7 years ago

@YaReally “Also funny to watch Tyler trying to laser her for the camera but she won’t have it lol ” she has buy-in at :50… but tyler backs out of the interaction at :57… = failed shit test…lol… (i would have kissed her…lol) per MM = 3 IOIs = kiss…lol… 1- hair grooming – :31 (she also ‘leans in’ (lol) at :38… but i didn’t count that one…lol…not to mention the subject matter of the talk…) 2- smile with 3- lean in with hard EC :50… tyler fails to escalte :57 watch at 1:07… her hindbrain/hamster is frustrated…and reacts to… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

GB_Hill

Interesting,I’ve seen the Frank stuff before… one thing I am left with is he seems inauthentic. The basic formats are good and the leading aspect as you describe, necessary and instructive in that regard. He is hitting the basic stuff, but it seems like he is going through the motions and I don’t see any desire being generated from his stuff. Have you seen any make outs in his stuff?

At the end of the day he seems like a closeted homo to me.

do you get any of that vibe?

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Let me rephrase slightly:

The problem with open hypergamy is that it openly leaves out the 90% of the men who do 99.999% of the work.

Hypergamy in humans is a covert strategy.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Apropos to the subject of the article:

There are, right now, two women standing on my front porch. They are waiting for the school bus to drop off their circa 12 year old kids.

They are old, dumpy, with stringy grey hair. One of them uses a cane just to stand.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@itispacs

kfg nails it as always. Human evolution wasn’t just genetic. It was societal. Open hypergamy completely sacrifices the societal side of the equation for the genetic. Continue to focus too heavily on either side for too long and human kind’s advancement as a species will cease.

We are all social animals. We can’t neglect that without consequences.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

I’m seeing stuff like YaReally reports. A young baby mommy opened up to me…is breaking up with her bf of 2+ years who is not the father of her kids…fucked a friend the other night after they both got hammered…is planning to go back to her hometown to see friends (including a former fuckbuddy–her words) and fuck a guy she met on social media…told me how she lied to her bf about contacting men on social media…said she has been loyal while she has been exclusive…her bf broke up with her but then wanted to get back together after he… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
7 years ago

On an evolutionary perspective however, only the most valuable genes would have a chance to reproduce which seems like something extremely desirable, so why is open hypergamy bad It’s the social aspect. When a large percentage of the male population is effectively shut out of sex and reproduction, this leads to bad social outcomes: decreased social cohesion, increased violence among males, decreased economic and other productivity among males. We’re already seeing this, actually in the black community in the US and in the lower rungs of the white community as well. When a smallish percentage of men sire most of… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Culum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhbOjDsHCpc Here you go. 5 minutes meet to car and a kiss. And probably the worst verbal game ever recorded. No routine, small talk (repeats himself lol) confident stance, laser, kino and ACTION to move her. Now your verbal is 10x better and your game is better, but when you get the vibe that is the time to ACT. Do not wait for it to peter out. Act before that. That is the critical point, hitting that spot. When you can act on a high spike, she will follow. So have a plan, simple stuff. baby step stuff. But… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Once upon a time, patriarchy was an immovable object.

Now, a rather short time later, as these things go, we live in a matriarchy, because a small number of obscure people decided that they didn’t like society, so society was going to have to adapt to them.

The first overt win of matriarchy over patriarchy was accomplished by a single individual, screaming “A dingo took my baby!”

comment image

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient Here you go. 5 minutes meet to car and a kiss. And probably the worst verbal game ever recorded. No routine, small talk (repeats himself lol) confident stance, laser, kino and ACTION to move her. Now your verbal is 10x better and your game is better, but when you get the vibe that is the time to ACT. Do not wait for it to peter out. Act before that. That is the critical point, hitting that spot. When you can act on a high spike, she will follow. http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/applause.gif so key. YOU DECIDE IF YOU AND A WOMAN ARE… Read more »

scray
scray
7 years ago

@asd ke YaReally reports. A young baby mommy opened up to me…is breaking up with her bf of 2+ years who is not the father of her kids…fucked a friend the other night after they both got hammered…is planning to go back to her hometown to see friends (including a former fuckbuddy–her words) and fuck a guy she met on social media…told me how she lied to her bf about contacting men on social media… just YESTERDAY a new FB REVEALED to me that she was actually MARRIED (she’s 23 y.o) and that her and her s/o were “fighting” but… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

KFG

On Norton… interestingly similar interference claims can still be brought in the US. In North Carolina for one. I knew a doctor there who sued his wife’s boyfriend and won. Got a $1M judgment against the guy and ruined the whole Eat Prey Love scene… Then got remarried to hotter tighter younger

http://www.divorcenet.com/resources/divorce/divorce-state-laws/north-carolina-divorce-laws-regarding-adultery#b

so there !

scray
scray
7 years ago

@kfg The problem with open hypergamy is that it openly leaves out the 90% of the men who do 99.999% of the work. it’s not that cut and dry. if you go look at sex partners, etc. the 80/20 rule doesn’t hold up. the 80/20 rule is that the only dudes who can pull of NSA/one-sided sexual relationships/etc. are prob top 20%, which is pretty reasonable and makes sense. and really, if you’re talking about NSA with hot chicks, then you’re more looking at the top 5-10%. yes, I said it….getting with 5-7 chicks on the reg, NSA, puts you… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scray

you decide through your actions, and it happens pretty quickly.

This has been a more and more fun part to play with. This edge and getting there via smaller and smaller, almost imperceptible actions… a quarter head turn, a glancing touch, a passive, blank stare, breaking eye contact while she is talking… that stuff… and just de facto assuming you are together and acting on it.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“….40% of men are happy this way.”

At least.

” . . . a dude like hank is a rare fucking dude.”

That’s what makes the operation a matter of triage.

” . . . de facto assuming you are together and acting on it.”

This.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@kfg “Now, a rather short time later, as these things go, we live in a matriarchy, because a small number of obscure people decided that they didn’t like society, so society was going to have to adapt to them.”

So all of this is unintended consequences. Its kind of amazing.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Via Vitae

If you really think about it, a very small number of people are actually driving society. It is amazing.

Once you unplug from societal dictates and just step back and look, you can see it much more clearly. At times it looks ridiculous.

But the average person appears helpless to ignore it or to choose not to participate by constantly going all in and relentlessly jumping through hoops, only to find discontent and disillusion over and over again.

SJB
SJB
7 years ago

@kfg: “A dingo took my baby!”

And there was a movement to teach dingos not to steal babies; luckily it was subverted and now we have a species which can be man’s best friend.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ YaReally ” So maybe this helps make my answer to Blaximus more clear too. We figured out that a lot of people we trusted lied to us and took advantage of our trust to use us as pawns. If I know you and trust you, cool, I might take your word for it…but if you aren’t my close friend then you gotta bring some good reason to the table for me to do “the right thing” or “be a man”.” Thank you again man. The thing is, regardless of the time that I grew up ( or maybe because… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
7 years ago

@blax The world also seems to encourage discontentment and disillusionment when you don’t jump through its hoops. Quite the frame job.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“So all of this is unintended consequences.” No, there are planners, plans and engineers building the plans. But every time they act it creates unintended consequences. The process has been messy, so we end up with places like Detroit which are half the plan and half a fucking mess. At one level the behaviour of people is predictable. Your local shopping mall was designed in part with the tools of statistical thermodynamics. The people in the mall are acting much like a bunch of BBs rattling around in a can. In effect, they are a type of gas and the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

This is true.

MPO.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@ya

Scray, you got any defaults (hank asked about this at the end of the last thread and I’m curious too about what you send when you do long-term pings (like the 6 month chick))?

ya, right here:
https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/05/the-best-of-the-rational-male-year-5/comment-page-10/#comment-169692

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

From the article cited in the OP The women were predominately middle-class and highly educated and were aged 38, on average, when they had their eggs frozen. Obviously these women were not highly educated in their own biology, the facts of their own fertility. 38 year old women often do not get pregnant at all, because their eggs are stale dated. Of those that do get pregnant, a higher percentage of their children have birth defects such as Downs, etc. There’s nothing secret about this, it’s available in medical literature online and offline. A 28 year old getting eggs frozen… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

@culum ok so SNL for you a week ago I sarged a super fresh-off-the-boat asian chick on an instadate five minutes in, walked her 10min through dark creepy area to a restaurant, spent like 45 min gaming her there, then walked her another 10 min through darkness back to bookstore where we started, pushed to go back to her place, but settled for number close when she resisted (she has a roommate + moved fast for where she is from) and last blitz you had all these chicks give you SUPER OBVIOUS greenlights and you were like “nah, no thanks”… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Anonymous

*pull cord*
The Blue Pill says: 40 is the new 30! 30 is the new 20!

*pull cord*
The Red Pill and reality say: 40 is 40. 30 is 30. #DealWithIt

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

Well, I suppose my statement isn’t entirely true. Some of the trailer park denizens I hang around with from motorcycle clubs are my age but look 50 or 60. None of them believe I’m 39 at all.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Just goes to show what passes for “educated” nowadays isn’t all that much.”

Critical Thinking is now code for Critical Theory. Critical Theory is a method of subverting critical thinking. People who have been (re)educated in Critical Theory think they have been educated in thinking critically.

But are incapable of it.

“None of them believe I’m 39 at all.”

People took me for mid 20s from 14 to 40. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@kfg
Critical Thinking is now code for Critical Theory.

Ohhh, critical theory.

“Be critical of all ideologies. Except Marxism. Because reasons.”

I’m pretty sure it’s the entire reason feminism looks exactly like a religion minus the ancient mythology.

SJB
SJB
7 years ago

@Anonymous Reader: I’d not be surprised if there was a pull through business in surrogacy. And surrogate insurance to indemnify the gestational carrier. And a reasonably priced OB plan for the bio-mother to cover the surrogate or surrogate to purchase.

Expect complaints of the burden of cost to HR and further benefit extension.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Once upon a time parents, concerned about the state of the schools, started complaining, “Our kids are being stuffed with facts, but they don’t have any idea what they mean. They are being taught what to think, but not how to think.” So one day an army of pedagogues trained at the finest institutions (even Harvard!) spread out to PTAs across the land and announced, ” We have heard you. The wisdom of the masses is indeed wise and from now on, Critical Thinking will be the core of Common Curriculum.” And the parents raised a great cry of, “Yes!… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

@yareally @culum @forge @habd @othergrain @scray @pua FR brief time out, but lots of stuff here. mostly just sticking with it…forever lol don”t even need details much here. its at the point now that as long as I keep talking, most girls will be into me. its just overcoming bfs and cultural resistance (for asians) that I need to work on. this is all at same mal i usually go to gamed girl. good. guy shows up. he actually introduced himself lol. easy peasy. just switched more to him. all good…but what i really need practice on is a two… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Blaximus Is the notion of a man ” going down swinging ” or ” not going down without a fight ” an antiquated, dead notion? Sigh. Chest thumping. Ok, fine. Dude, if anyone…relative, neighbor, UPS delivery driver, anyone…ever drops a quarter on you with an accusation of DV that sends people in police uniforms wearing guns to your door, you will go down. One way or another, you will go down. FIght or not, you will go down. Especially in that state you’re in. The Duluth Wheel can crush any man, no matter how big he is. Not being a… Read more »

mega_guy
mega_guy
7 years ago

Serious comment here … regarding Rollo’s upcoming post on male birth control and the game changer that it will be. What I would like to do is ask the Manosphere to get off its ass and take a stand and make a difference. What we need to do is come up some sort of foundation that men can contribute to … to make Male BC free for any male that asks. Like how society has enabled that for women, free BC for women, free abortions. A .org site, a tax exempt site, etc … as long as it doesn’t use… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Why are so many men not having employment opportunities over the past 10-12 years? I wonder if young men even grasp what has changed. People love to say it’s ” technology ” that is to blame. I’m not in that camp at all. Technology is basically benign at it’s core. Who pointed tech at the workforce in the first place, and to what end? Who benefitted from shipping most manufacturing out of the country? Common sense dictates that everybody can’t all work in 1 or 2 fields. Why did previous generations accomplish things that are growing out of the grasp… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

To me “going down fighting” is certainly not in the “for honor” sense of the word. It’s in never playing “fair”, bending or breaking the rules where ever possible, and only playing to win. It’s about making the move that’s in my best interest in the long run, not the one that makes me look good for now. The old meaning of “going down swinging” to me was about the battle. To me it’s now about the war. If retreat or false surrender is the strategy that wins, I take it. I’ll always have my eye on where and when… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Blax People love to say it’s ” technology ” that is to blame. I’m not in that camp at all. Technology is basically benign at it’s core. Who pointed tech at the workforce in the first place, and to what end? Every minute of every day automation shrinks the number of jobs available to most people. It’s been doing so at an ever increasing rate ever since the Industrial Revolution started. Adding computers in the mix supercharged the process. Hoards of blue collar jobs disappeared. Men do the grunt work. All of it. And most men are not really capable… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ AR ” Dude, if anyone…relative, neighbor, UPS delivery driver, anyone…ever drops a quarter on you with an accusation of DV that sends people in police uniforms wearing guns to your door, you will go down. One way or another, you will go down. FIght or not, you will go down. Especially in that state you’re in.” I’m half joking here, so take this with a massive grain…nay, a boulder of salt. I happen to be heavily armed. It helps me sleep. …. and it’s not the criminals that I’m worried about so much. Most likely, I will just go… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Oh, and AR- you are right. I am guilty of ” chest thumping “. lol. I can’t help it. It’s part of me.

And, I have had the uniformed gentlemen show up with their guns and curses and threats a few times already. Not for DV though. Evidently it was just for the hell of it, as I’d broken no laws. They’ve already taken my ” fear of the cops ” cherry a long, long time ago.

Now they are just dudes with badges and guns, and a gang of backup.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . STEM” is chanted like a mantra by the media. But it’s all that’s gonna be left . . .”

. . . and, contrary to what you might hear through the MSM, STEM is already overpopulated by at least 90%. It’s all junk jobs.

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

@Culum “”QUESTION: Umm, what do I actually DO then? Like I have a conversational structure and some routines in my head which I’m practicing. But I can’t run that so late in the night – that kind of conversation is difficult. So what do I actually DO when approaching a girl at 130am when people are drunk and starting to hook up? What do I DO when approaching some drunk girls outside the club going to get food at 230am?”” I have pulled and banged girls from parties just by identifying a girl who’s giving clear IOI’s. If the girl… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

The whole “egg freezing so’s you can have your totally awesome career” looks pretty dysgenic to me as well.

Just saying.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

At one level the behaviour of people is predictable. Your local shopping mall was designed in part with the tools of statistical thermodynamics. The people in the mall are acting much like a bunch of BBs rattling around in a can. In effect, they are a type of gas and the mall is designed to direct and manage the flow.

One of the local shopping malls is mostly closed. But parts of it now are a laser tag arena.

Sorta like Detroit but much less drastic.

Ooops.

329
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x

Discover more from

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading