Tribes

tribes

I received this email some time ago, but I felt it needed some serious consideration to give the concept the justice it deserved.

Rollo — You’ve been a major help to my understanding the underlying dynamics between men and women. I’ve observed them in bits and pieces over the years but never really understood the whys behind them or how to turn them in our favor.

It seems like one mid-term focus you have is on male-male dynamics, specifically fathers and sons. But I also wonder whether you’d consider writing more about bonding and support between men and how those relationships can anchor men’s lives at a time when male relationships are regarded with skepticism by larger society. Lately it’s struck me that men tend to innately trust the men they know and distrust those they don’t (and that it’s often the reverse for women). This inclines us to believe women when they decry the “assholes” who have mistreated them in the past while women are empathetic and credulous toward women whose character they don’t know and whom they’ve never met.

Many of us out here are lacking strong male relationships, and our small social circles translate to fewer men we innately trust and more men we innately don’t. Women seem to regard male friendships as a luxury at best–we should be focusing on career, family, and her needs–while women’s friendships are seen as a lifeline in their crazy, have-it-all world. Indeed, a man discouraging his SO’s friendships is widely seen as a sign of emotional abuse, whereas the reverse is “working on the relationship.”

This strikes me as a deep but largely untapped Red Pill well and could provide essential guidance for men looking to live a proud, constructive Red Pill life however women and children might fit into it. I’d definitely welcome your insights in future entries.

Look forward to every post!

Back in February Roosh proposed (and attempted to initiate) a worldwide event that would be a sort of ‘gathering of the tribes’ with the intent of having men get together in small local gatherings to “just have a beer and talk amongst like-minded men.” My impression of the real intent of in putting this together notwithstanding, I didn’t think it was a bad idea. However, the problem this kind of ‘tribes meeting’ suffers from is that it’s entirely contrived to put unfamiliar men together for no other purpose than to “have a beer and talk.” The problem with unfamiliar men coming together simply to meet and relate is a noble goal, however, the fundamental ways men communicate naturally makes the function of this gathering seem strange to men.

Women talk, men Do.

The best male friends I have share one or more common interests with me – a sport, a hobby, music, art, fishing, lifting, golf, etc. – and the best conversations I can remember with these friends occurred while we were engaged in some particular activity or event. Even just moving a friend into his new house; it’s about accomplishing something together and in that time relating about shit. When I lived in Florida some of the best conversations I had with my studio guys were during some project we had to collaborate on for a week or two.

Women, make time with the express purpose of talking between friends. Over coffee perhaps, but the act of communication is more important than the event or activity. Even a ‘stitch-and-bitch’ is simply an organized excuse to get together and relate. For women, communication is about context. They are rewarded by how that communication makes them feel. For Men communication is about content and they are rewarded by the interchange of information and ideas.

[…]From an evolutionary perspective, it’s likely that our hunter-gatherer tribal roles had a hand in men and women’s communication differences. Men went to hunt together and practiced the coordinated actions for a cooperative goal. Bringing down a prey animal would have been a very information-crucial effort; in fact the earliest cave paintings were essentially records of a successful hunt and instructions on how to do it. Early men’s communication would necessarily have been a content driven discourse or the tribe didn’t eat.

Similarly women’s communications would’ve been during gathering efforts and childcare. It would stand to reason that due to women’s more collectivist roles they would evolve to be more intuitive, and context oriented, rather than objective oriented. A common recognition in the manosphere is women’s predisposition toward collectivism and/or a more socialist bent to thinking about resource distribution. Whereas men tend to distribute rewards and resources primarily on merit, women have a tendency to spread resources collectively irrespective of merit. Again this predisposition is likely due to how women’s ‘hard-wiring’ evolved as part of the circumstances of their tribal roles.

From this perspective it’s a fairly easy follow to see how the tendency of men to distrust unfamiliar (out-group) men might be a response to a survival threat whereas women’s implicit trust of any member of the ‘sisterhood’ would be a species-survival benefit to the sex that requires the most parental investment and mutual support.

Divide & Conquer

In our post-masculine, feminine-primary social order it doesn’t take a Red Pill Lens to observe the many examples of how the Feminine Imperative goes to great lengths to destroy the intrasexual ‘tribalism’ of men. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution the social press of equalism has attempted to force a commonly accepted unisex expectation upon men to socialize and interact among themselves as women do.

The duplicity in this striving towards “equality” is, of course, the same we find in all of the socialization efforts of egalitarian equalism; demasculinizing men in the name of equality. A recent, rather glaring, example of this social push can be found (where else?) at Harvard University where more than 200 female students demonstrated against a new policy to discourage participation in single-gender clubs at the school. You see, women were very supportive of the breaking of gender barriers when it meant that men could no longer discriminate in male-exclusive (typically male-space) organizations, but when that same equalist metric was applied to women’s exclusive organizations, then the cries were accusations of insensitivity and the banners read “Women’s Groups Keep Women Safe.”

That’s a pretty fresh incident that outlines the dynamic, but it’s important to understand the underlying intent of the “fine for me, but not for thee” duplicity here. That intent is to divide and control men’s communication by expecting them to communicate as women do, and ideally to do so on their own accord by conditioning them to accept women’s communication means as the normatively correct way to communicate. As I’ve mentioned before, the most effective social conventions are the ones in which the participants willingly take part in and willingly encourage others to believe is correct.

Tribes vs. The Sisterhood

Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger whole of conventional masculinity.

Because of men’s’ outward reaching approach to interacting with the world around him, there’s really no unitary male tribe in the same fashion that the collective ‘Sisterhood’ of women represents. One of the primary strengths of the Feminine Imperative has been its unitary tribalism among women. We can see this evidenced in how saturated the Feminine Imperative has become into mainstream society and how it’s embedded itself into what would otherwise be diametrically opposed factions among women. Political, socioeconomic and religious affiliations of women (various sub-tribes) all become secondary to the interests of ‘womankind’ when embracing the collective benefits of being women and leveraging both their victim and protected statuses.

Thus, we see no cognitive dissonance when women simultaneously embrace a hostile opposition to one faction while still retaining the benefits that faction might offer to the larger whole of the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood is unitary first and then it is broken down into sub-tribes. Family, work, interests, political / religious compartmentalizations become sublimated to fostering the collective benefits of womankind.

While I can speculatively understand the socio-evolutionary underpinnings of how this psychological dynamic came to be, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out just how effective this unitary collectiveness has been in shaping society towards a social ideal that supports an unfettered drive towards women’s gender-coded need to optimize Hypergamy. This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism.

Threat Assessments

Asserting any semblance of a unitary male tribalism is a direct threat to the Feminine Imperative. In The Threat I began the essay with this summation:

Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy. Red Pill awareness and Game lessens women’s control in that equation, which is sexy from the standpoint of dealing with a self-aware high SMV man, but also threatening from the perspective that her security depends on him acquiescing to her Frame and control.

Up to this point, Game has represented an individualized threat to women’s Hypergamous control, but there has always been a larger majority of men (Betas) who’ve been easily kept ignorant of their true potential for control. However, on a larger social landscape, the Feminine Imperative understands the risks involved in men forming a unitary tribe – a Brotherhood – based solely on benefitting and empowering men. The manosphere, while still effectively a collection of sub-tribes, represents a threat to the imperative because its base purpose is making men aware of their true state in a feminine-centric social order.

As such, any attempt to create male-specific, male-empowering organizations is made socially synonymous with either misogyny (hate) or homosexuality (shame). Ironically, the shame associated with homosexuality that a fem-centric society would otherwise rail against becomes an effective form of intra-gender shame when it’s applied to heterosexual collectives of men. Even suggestions of male-centered tribalism are attached with homosexual suspicions, and these come from within the collectives of men themselves.

tribalism_1a

The above picture is from an “academic” conference (class?) Mediated Feminisms: Activism and Resistance to Gender and Sexual Violence in the Digital Age held at UCL in London. There’s quite a bit more to this than just collecting and codifying the sub-tribes of the manosphere, more can be found here.

Now, granted, this conference is replete with all of the uninformed (not to mention willful ignorance) concern to be expected of contemporary feminists, but this does serve as a current example of how men organizing for the exclusive benefit of men is not just equated with misogyny, but potential violence. As a unitary collective of men, the manosphere terrifies the Feminine Imperative. That fear, however, doesn’t stem from any real prospective violence, but the potential for a larger ‘awareness’ in men of their own conditions and the roles they are expected to play to perpetuate a feminine-centric social order. They fear to lose the control that the ‘socially responsible’ ignorance of men provides them with.

Men’s predisposition to form sub-tribes and intrasexual competition (“lets you and him fight”) has always been a means of covert control by women, but even still the Feminine Imperative must insert its influence and oversight into those male spaces to make use of  them. Thus, by assuring that feminine primacy is equated with the idea of inclusive equalism, all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female. For an easy example of this, compare and contrast the reactions to Harvard’s unisex institution of campus club equalism to the worldwide reactions to, and preemption of, the “Tribe” meetings only attempted to be organized by Return of Kings in February.

Making Men

By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences.

I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep men guessing and doubting about their “security in their manhood” while asserting that the feminine-correct definition is the only legitimate definition of healthy, ‘non-toxic’, masculinity. This deliberate obfuscation and ambiguity about what amounts to ‘authentic masculinity’ is another means of controlling men’s awareness of their true masculine potential and value – a potential that they rightly fear will mean acquiescing to men’s power over their Hypergamous social and personal control. Anything less than a definition of masculinity that fosters female primacy and fempowerment is labeled “toxic masculinity” – literally and figuratively poisonous.

This is the real, operative reason behind the obsessive, often self-contradicting, need for control of male space by the Feminine Imperative. Oversight and infiltration of male sub-tribes and instituting a culture of self-policing of the narrative within those sub-tribes maintains a feminine-primary social order.

Building Better Betas

Since the time in which western(izing) societies shifted to unfettering Hypergamy on a social scale there has been various efforts to demasculinize – if not outright feminize – the larger majority of men. Today we’re seeing the results of, and still persistent efforts of this in much starker contrast as transgenderism and the social embrace of foisting gender-loathing on boys becomes institutionalized. A deliberate promotion of a social constructivist narrative about gender identity and the very early age at which children can “choose” a gender for themselves is beginning to be more and more reinforced in our present feminine-primary social order.

As a result of this, and likely into our near future, today’s men are conditioned to feel uncomfortable being “men”. That discomfort is a direct result of the ambiguity and misguidance about conventional masculinity the imperative has fostered in men when they were boys. This feminization creates a gender loathing, but that loathing comes as the result of an internal conflict between the feminine-correct “non-toxic” understanding of what masculinity ought to be and the conventional aspects of masculinity that men need to express as a result of their biology and birthright.

Effectively, this confusion has the purpose of creating discomfort in men among all-male sub-tribes. These masculine-confused men have difficulty with intersocial communication within the sub-tribes they’re supposed to have some sort of kin or in-group affiliation with.  Even the concept of “male bonding” has become a point of ridicule (something typical of male buffoons) or suspiciously homosexual , so, combined with the feminine identification most of these men default to, today’s “mangina” typically has more female friends and feels more comfortable communicating as women communicate. These men have been effectively conditioned to believe or feel that male interaction or organization is inherently wrong, uncomfortable or contrived, possibly even threatening if the organizing requires physical effort. Consequently, interacting as a male becomes ridiculous or superficial.

Pushing Back

What then is to be done about this conditioning? For all the efforts to destroy or regulate male tribalism, the Feminine Imperative still runs up against men’s evolved predispositions to interact with the outside world instead of fixating on the inside world of women. Below I’ve pieced together some actionable ideas that might help men come to a better, unitary way of fostering the male tribalism the Feminine Imperative would see destroyed or used as a tool of soci0-sexual control:

  • While it is vitally important to maintain a male-specific mental point of origin, together men need a center point of action. Women talk, men do. Men need a common purpose in which the tribe can focus its efforts on. Men need to build, coordinate, win, compete and problem solve amongst themselves. The ‘purpose’ of a tribe can’t simply be one of getting together as like-minded men; in fact, groups with such a declared purpose are often designed to be the most conciliatory and accommodating of the Feminine Imperative. Men require a common, passionate purpose to unite for.

 

  • Understand and accept that men will naturally form male hierarchies in virtually every context if that tribe is truly male-exclusive. There will be a reflexive resistance to this, but understand that the discomfort in acknowledging male hierarchies stems from the Feminine Imperative’s want to make any male authority a toxic form of masculinity. Contrary to feminine conditioning male hierarchies are not necessarily based on Dark Triad manipulations. That is the ‘fem-think’ – any male created hierarchy of authority is by definition evil Patriarchy.

 

  • Recognize existing male sub-tribes for what they are, but do so without labeling them as such. Don’t talk about Fight Club, do Fight Club. As with most other aspects of Red Pill aware Game, it is always better to demonstrate rather than explicate. There will always be an observer effect in place when you call a male group a “male group”. That tribe must exist for a passionate reason other than the express idea that it exists to be about men meeting up. Every sub-tribe I belong to, every collective interest I share with other men, even the instantly forming ones that arise from an immediate common need or function, all exist apart from “being” about men coming together.Worldwide “tribe” day failed much for the same reasons an organization like the Good Men Project fails – they are publicized as a gathering of men just “being” men.

 

  • Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join. There will always be a want to accommodate women and/or the fears of not being accommodating of feminine-primary mindsets within that all-male purview. Often this will come in subtle forms of anonymous White Knighting or reservations about a particular passion due to other men’s Blue Pill conditioning to always consider the feminine before considerations of themselves or the tribe. It is vitally important to the tribe to quash those sympathies and compromising attitudes as these are exactly the designs of the Feminine Imperative to destroy a tribe from within.Make no concessions for competency of women within the tribe if you find yourself in a unisex tribal situation. Even the U.S. military is guilty of reducing combat service requirements for women as recently as this month. If you are a father or you find yourself in a role of mentoring boys or young men it is imperative that you instill this no-compromise attitude in them and the organizations that they create themselves.

 

  • The primary Red Pill / Game tenets that you’ve learned with respect to women are entirely applicable in a larger scope when it comes to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative. Frame and a return to a collectively male-exclusive Mental Point of Origin are two of the primary tenets to apply to non-intimate applications of resistance in terms of aspects of society. Observations and the Red Pill Lens should inform your interactions with women and men on a social scale.

 

Finally, I want to close by restating that my approach to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative on a meta-social scale is the same bottom-up approach I used with unplugging men from their Blue Pill doldrums. Once men have taken the first steps in Red Pill awareness this new perspective has a tendency to expound into greater social understandings and a want for applications beyond hooking up with desirable women. That Red Pill awareness becomes a way of life, but moreover, it should inform us as men, as tribes, about how best to maintain ourselves as masculine-primary individuals and organizations.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg

“And, as we all know, strength is not a tool associated with dominance.”

but they actually had a category called DOMINANCE. maybe you missed that?

they did not ASSIGN THAT category to taller individuals. and THAT is the category you asserted went with height, is it not?

you said DOMINANCE, mysterioso.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Flipping the Scrabble board over doesn’t make the words that were on it not real words lol” If I had intended that I would have inserted “case closed” somewhere along the line. Has that appeared in the conversation anywhere? “I was with you guys until the Tall thing doesn’t matter.” For my part I have not made a third assertion that it “matters.” Dominance both attracts and repels, depending on the context. The FI is between a rock and a hard place, needing a man who can provide for and protect them, but won’t just beat them to a bloody… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@kfg
““Flipping the Scrabble board over doesn’t make the words that were on it not real words lol””

“If I had intended that I would have inserted “case closed” somewhere along the line. Has that appeared in the conversation anywhere?”

If I had intended for that comment to refer to you I would have inserted “@kfg” above it. Did that appear anywhere in that comment that you’re giving me this snarky reply to? lol Relax yo.

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

“Google ‘do women prefer tall men’ it’s universal that they do”

Copy the past 1000+ comments into word and replace the word looks with height. Like, do we really need to go through the entire deconstruction again? After height, what’s next on the list of externals?

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@KFG

Pretty simultaneous with you posting your favorite hat, I arrived at my farm and doffed the one on the left. It’s too hot for that one and no girls are watching as I spray some in fields with glyphosate. So I’m going to go with the one with visible branding on the right.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/20160524_164713_zpskobwog4q.jpg

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@kfg

“But knowing that dynamic is there can be worked to your advantage.”

They don’t want to acknowledge that dynamic because they seem to think most men out there are not able to lift and work on game at the same time. The whole debate is pretty ridiculous.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Harrison Bergeron “Like, do we really need to go through the entire deconstruction again? After height, what’s next on the list of externals?” Money, clothes, cars, houses, race, etc etc etc I have a pickup buddy who slayed it in front of his buddies in a big city who said “it must be because of your small-town vibe” and when he slayed it in front of his small city buddies they said “it’s because of your big-city vibe”. Fucking hilarious. @Bromeo “They don’t want to acknowledge that dynamic because they seem to think most men out there are not able… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Did that appear anywhere in that comment that you’re giving me this snarky reply to?” The question can be answered with a simple yes or no. Instead you chose evasion. One can logically deduce to avoid who the statement does apply to. What has me scratching my head is why all the Sneaky Lawyer Tricks when, so far as I can tell, we are in agreement over everything save my second item. Straight up dialectic would seem to serve your purposes just fine if it were not for your pedagogical “I don’t want to . . .” Which, logically, communicates… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Yareally

“No one has ever said that. We are saying if you split your time between two things you will, as demonstrated by basic elementary school math skills, you will have less experience with those two things than if you focused on just one of them. This is common sense, what do you think the phrase “jack of all trades, master of none” means?”

How many of the dudes following PUA in the community are sarging at the levels of Tyler, Julien, even you? And how much time per week is being dedicated to it?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“And how much time per week is being dedicated to it?” In a worst case scenario getting lean takes zero time. In a best case scenario it frees up time (and money) to get in more sarging sets . A set of push ups sufficient to generate a “pump” and a training effect takes 90 seconds, once a week, before you walk into the club. “But guys aren’t doing that!,” I hear you cry.* Yeah, and guys aren’t standing up straight and making laser eye contact either, until you train them properly. *And again, my experience is that guys who… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@kfg “The question can be answered with a simple yes or no. Instead you chose evasion. One can logically deduce to avoid who the statement does apply to.” No dude lol I was talking to Blaximus about Blaximus’ Scrabble board flipping with his “AND WE SAY THIS NO NO NO!!!!!! Fuck this conversation!!” flip-out. That’s why it says @Blaximus above it. “What has me scratching my head is why all the Sneaky Lawyer Tricks” Your weird martyr/persecution/paranoia complex is not my Sneaky Lawyer Tricks. That comment wasn’t intended for you. “so far as I can tell, we are in agreement… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@kfg
“Go Google “do women prefer tall men'” it’s universal they do”

“For my part I have not made a third assertion that it “matters”.”

Sure sounded like you did.

“Posture, gait, facial expression, non-linguistic verbalization, tone and tenor of linguistic verbalization. . . . Jeeeezus, the list goes on and on. Go read the Ya Really Archive.”

You mean the core subcomms we just spent 1000+ comments arguing over? Lol

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ya

“Do you even need me for this imaginary argument you’re having with me? lol

fucking seriously

comment image

literally me after most of these comments ‘against’ me

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@Via Vitae “Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish?” @yareally “Watch their bios, then watch them infield interacting with women” So, according to you, it’s impossible for _any_ guy to have good subcomms from anything other than chasing women in a club? because that is all I ever suggested: that some guys may be have been able to develop some good subcomms from pursuits other than chasing women. Does not seem that unreasonable. I take the point of @SFC Ton who pointed out that… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“All the game you learn and all the effort you put yourself through to make yourself an attractive man still can’t compete with my friend. He just has to show up, smile, make small talk, and seal the deal. The reason is because the United States is a country where aesthetics is an increasing component in attraction. My friend gets more visual attention now in his early 30’s than his 20’s, even though he has passed his physical prime like I have. The shifting culture means my friend’s value is actually going up every year, not down, while average-looking men… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

From your own community: http://www.puatraining.com/blog/why-you-need-to-get-ripped 5 reasons why you need to get ripped 1. Your confidence will go through the roof You will gradually start getting more attention from women in bars and clubs, this will help with social proof and will in turn boost your confidence, you’ll just be feeling an endorphin rush constantly. 2. You will get WAY more IOI’s Girls like hot guys just as much as guys like hot girls. It’s eye candy… fantasy material. So you’ll get a ridiculous amount of women giving you IOI’s, giving you a choice of which ones you want to… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Like you need to be Lance Armstrong to ride a bike to the grocery store.”

*dead*

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

For all of the back and forth and disagreement, let me just say that you guys are amazing in the content of your comments and the thought involved.

*sniffle* It’s very, very cool.

All of y’all. <— my southern heritage is showing.

Ajax, Via and Harrison, I'm so glad you guys started contributing more, even if I keep winding up *dead*.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@HB: “Sure sounded like you did.”

As Ya Really and I are only at odds over whether the attraction factor of height is innate or conditioned, I refer you to the picture he posted of hypothetical 7′ foot tall guy for how much I think it matters.

And this guy could be 5’5″ and he still sub-communicates badass:

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq122/mojo00_pics/Stuff/4966743520_97ff1c3e09_zps51013ed7.jpg

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Or anyone of these guys.
https://vimeo.com/tag:movnat

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Via Vitae “So, according to you, it’s impossible for _any_ guy to have good subcomms from anything other than chasing women in a club?” Is that what I said? Or, if you actually read my replies to you, would you have read this: “You can develop SOME subcomms through other means. Like ya, you’re probably gonna feel confident swimming if you train as a SEAL. You’re gonna probably have good posture, some assertiveness and probably do find handling yourself around other men etc. But you’re not developing most of the ones that translate directly to getting women and a lot… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@viv “So, according to you, it’s impossible for _any_ guy to have good subcomms from anything other than chasing women in a club? ” nope. those subcomms will be situational. so the navy seal will have good subcomms in an environment where NAVY Sealing = high value, just like the expert world of warcraft player will have those subcomms in that environment (holy shit, situaitonal alphas!) ” that some guys may be have been able to develop some good subcomms from pursuits other than chasing women. Does not seem that unreasonable.” ya man you’re just rehashing a basic game concept… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Like you need to be Lance Armstrong to ride a bike to the grocery store.”

Ex #2 wouldn’t get on a bike until she had gone through a time consuming stretching and warm up routine. It was very annoying.

How do you warm up to ride a bike, to the grocery store or to the start line of a race?

Ride the fucking bike.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo
“Serious question, not an attack: What did guys do to learn and/or display good sub coms prior to all the south beach night clubs being built?”

…socialize with other human beings?

“I presume our grandmothers wanted to bang our grandfathers at some point in time, how did grandpa go about DHV and sub coms?”

He was probably socializing with people instead of sitting on his computer or in his bedroom texting.

So, sarging. But like, all the time. Because there wasn’t really anything else to do and he had to interact with other people (including women) to survive.

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Yareally

Do you disagree with any of those 5 points? I mean they are pretty solid and links to what happens in reality.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo
On top of it grandma had less selection than literally hundreds of thousands of men on her little pocket validation device, so the standards were pretty low for how great your subcomms had to be ’cause you’re competing with a handful of other guys in your little town that grandma interacts with (IF she’s even allowed to, with social customs/rules etc from back then like it not being proper to be in a room alone with a man etc)

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@via “So, according to you, it’s impossible for _any_ guy to have good subcomms from anything other than chasing women in a club?” We didn’t say that, you’re reading comprehension has been staggeringly poor throughout this thread. We said, it’s more efficient to focus on THE THING YOU WANT TO GRT BETTER AT, in order to grt better at it, rather than some other activity that MAY have some carryover benefits (confidence from breaking a bench PR, etc ) We can’t make it any more clear and yet you still misread it. And saying we need to compare RP aware… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@scray “nope. those subcomms will be situational.” OH GOD SCRAY!!!! YOU SAID SOMETHING THAT WAS WORDED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM ME!!! BE PREPARED FOR THE ONSLAUGHT!!!!!! Legit tho, like you can learn “leader of men” skills in the SEALS and that’ll help infield when interacting with men, which girls watching pick up on. It’s just that 1) those subcomms are way more limited than just going infield and learning the ones that are directly attractive, and 2) like Scray says, they’re situationally-based…if a SEAL feels out of place in a nightclub, his SEAL training won’t come out. Why not just have… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“He was probably socializing with people instead of sitting on his computer or in his bedroom texting.

So, sarging. But like, all the time. Because there wasn’t really anything else to do and he had to interact with other people (including women) to survive.”

lol? You do realize there a is a big world out there besides sarging… The older generation of men were out there busting their balls to provide for their families.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@blax
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@ajax

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo
“@Ya, that’s about what I expected, but how would DHV & sub coms be different or the same in say, 1946?”

Ways to DHV would be different in that you might wear a fedora and be clean shaven and use current “hip” lingo etc

The good subcomms you’re trying to demonstrate wouldn’t be different though. Because those subcomms that trigger sexual arousal are hardwired. Passing shit-tests, leader of men, preselection, laser eye-contact, etc triggered attraction the same way they do now.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo
OH NO I MEANT “TRIGGERED SEXUAL AROUSAL” SORRY!!!! DEAR GOD I TYPED ATTRACTION INSTEAD DON’T THROW OUT MY ENTIRE POINT BECAUSE I TYPED QUICKLY AAAAHHHHHH!!!11

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . you’re competing with a handful of other guys in your little town . . .” “No True Scottsman Scottswoman . . .” In The Chart that many of us have criticised for being skewed low at the high end there is a woman who is tagged as getting a bonus point if your personal preference is for red heads. As it happens I know who she is because, as I’ve gone on record, my personal preference is for red headed, slender Scots, and she is a slender, red headed Scot. So, bonus point from me, which… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Bromeo “Do you disagree with any of those 5 points? I mean they are pretty solid and links to what happens in reality.” 1. This is situational confidence and comparing yourself to Chad Thundercock which is staying in the FI rat race and basing your worth on your externals, I’ve addressed this 2000 times. 2. These don’t mean shit, I’ve addressed this 2000 times. 3. Same as 2. They’ll initiate conversation with you if you barf on their shoe too. 4. This doesn’t hold up infield, witness Forever Aloners, Death Row at the bar, the model dude on that game… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo

ok but if you think that question goes against what we have been saying….

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YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@scray
I know right?? lol I thought my HUGE CAPITAL LETTERS and bolding emphasis post here cleared this up:

https://therationalmale.com/2016/05/15/tribes/comment-page-8/#comment-157065

Did you read that Rollo?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

I’m going out on the bike for a bit while I contemplate the construction of a cycling tribe and how to make it work; just to be different.

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@bromeo your 5 points 1.your confidence will go through the roof >forever alone at the MISC the point we’re making is that if there’s proof of this not being the case,it cannot be used as an absolute, universal outcome.. 2. you will get WAY more IOI’s yea, we’ve all agreed on that back on Friday 3. Women will initiate conversation with you aggressive 5s. 9s surrounded by jacked, handsome, tall, rich orbiters will not 4.your close rate will be much higher the jacked, tall, rich guys standing against the bar alone at last call beg to differ 5. “you’re forced… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“He asked how they developed their subcomms. They developed them through social interaction, which is what sarging is. Try to keep up.”

lol at subcomms can only be developed from sarging bars/clubs every night…

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Harrison

“the jacked, tall, rich guys standing against the bar alone at last call beg to differ”

Not sure which bars your go to but that can not be more inaccurate.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Harrison @Bromeo “aggressive 5s. 9s surrounded by jacked, handsome, tall, rich orbiters will not” inb4 “b-but they won’t approach the small lame guys EITHER!!!” 1) they will if they see him demonstrating good subcomms, and 2) that small lame guy can just demonstrate good subcomms when he approaches and now we enter a level playing-field where looks don’t matter. “talking with 5s. when your perfect 10 stares you down with those free IOIs you’re getting, you’re gonna freeze up like it’s the first time you talked to a girl. Granted, it’s better than never going out at all, but its… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

Incidentally “9s surrounded by jacked, handsome, tall, rich orbiters will not” is one of those situations where looks/money are devalued that I’m talking about. Again it’s like my buddy who got jacked for a pool party in Vegas and then realized every dude in Vegas is way more jacked than him ’cause they dedicate way more time to it and work in nightlife and do roids and shit, and boom, all his confidence shot ’cause the thing he based his confidence on was devalued. Those hotties are looking for good subcomms ’cause they have a dozen rich good-looking dudes that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Rollo ” “So is it safe to presume then that there are underlying rudimentary sub coms that denote a man’s suitability as a mate (masculinity)”” Undeniably true. As for the ” 1946 ” subcomm/dhv question, the dhv’s would be basically the same as today, as far as suitability for a mate. Sure, there are minor tweaks ( purple khakis…shit like that ) that would be added to the equation, possibly, but ” fashion ” isn’t a basic, real subcomm. Fashion is the sub of the moment, fluid. But having strength of mind and body, produced in the gym or… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus
“Sure, there are minor tweaks ( purple khakis…”

……..Blaximus DHV’ing back in the day?:

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Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

…. fucking internet. Shit stays out there forever.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo
“@Ya, you know, for as much as I may think Xplat has his head up his ass, I’d give him more credibility than Roosh. But yeah.”

I wouldn’t expect you to defend yourself over quotes from them, just like I don’t think it’s fair to expect me to defend myself over quotes from every PUA company on the planet (with various levels of experience, various levels of focus, various reasons for putting out the information they put out, etc)

@Blaximus
lol

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

from YaReally’s list “– confidence – assuming attraction – leading the interaction – leader of men – entitlement to engage her – entitlement to be physical with her – confident eye-contact – laser/bedroom/sexual eye-contact – confident body-language – comfort touching her body – comfort talking about or demonstrating sex/sexuality – decisiveness – comfort invading her space – expecting good reactions – being unreactive – having a strong frame – holding that frame when its tested – passing shit-tests – good neutral/breaking rapport tonality – authoritative demeanor – outcome independence – not seeking reactions – not seeking validation – preselection –… Read more »

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@Rollo YaReally Subcomms circa 1953. Note the “tingles” around :35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj10jGplnIE Part of my own subcoms is the swagger, the laser eye contact. I don’t go to South Beach bars or clubs and I’m an “older” dude in comparison. Yet i’m killing it recently with 20-somethings. Part of it is that they want a “man” who’s “experienced”. How do you communicate that? I don’t dress my “age”—no dad sweaters, no boat shoes. I look in some ways “timeless” cool. Lower my voice. Work out. A lot of who you pull is a reflection of who you are. If you’re punching… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“Tyler probably has it the most together as far as health and fitness. He always mentions Dr. Mark Hyman, nutrition, supplments, meditation and weightlifting during his speeches, and that tells me he has done some good reasearch.”

http://www.rsdnation.com/node/520961/forum

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@walawala Great clip and ya, look at his subcomms. His outfit would be ridiculous now, but back then it signaled “likely to have good subcomms” (aka that list I made). But his outfit itself isn’t attractive, it’s when he demonstrates good subcomms that arousal is triggered. That’s why girls cream themselves for scenes of Twilight vampires eye-fucking in movies and shit, where they’re witnessing the guy demonstrate good subcomms. “There is this other discussion going on about how much of a provider vibe vs player vibe you project. Keeping that balance is more of what’s being ignored in this whole… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Yareally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JPCU03Dp8Zw

Even your boy Tyler knows the importance of a balanced healthy and fit approach, what else do you cherry pick/toss out from his videos?

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Bromeo
brb gotta delete my archive, I lifted a weight today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_dKkLkox2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gryAloc2GQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3AYFEBQ8to

etc etc etc

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Bromeo But hey, since you brought it up, let’s see who does better infield, Elliot the jacked dude or little ugly Tyler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZVGzMnHj2s&t=20s Skip to 20 seconds in. 1:30 a whole group of dudes including super jacked Elliot. Whoops, at 1:45 Tyler walks off to go make out with a random girl and set up a threesome later and then a 3-way kiss. Elliot sounds impressed. That’s weird, he’s jacked, shouldn’t he be USED to that since as the other link you put up showed your results will automatically go up if you’re ripped. At 2:35 Elliot is standing there… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Bromeo
Tyler did exactly what I said guys should do: he hyperfocused on game first, in his early 20s, to learn how attraction ACTUALLY works, and now in his 30s he focuses on his health (the nutrition focus is to keep his brain healthy more than muscles, ’cause his brain is what’s important).

That’s the optimal route for this stuff. Once you KNOW looks don’t matter from racking up field experience in the hyperfocus stage, THEN go ahead and get jacked ’cause you got the skillset down and you’ll already have internal confidence.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@yareally Is grooving to music in your head high or lo value. I feel like it depends on how you do it. Similar to buying a girl a drink — are you doing it submissively or from a position of importance. I was just taping my foot and bobbing my head slightly to a song in my head, and that question struck me. I know i t helps to put a swgger in my step when I walked, but I was just curious about if you were sitting down if it would be the same. @blax I responded to your… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@scray “you don’t think i’ve tooled dudes who have been in Iraq? Cops? PhD geniuses? etc. etc.?” Wait, are you gay? Uh, I think we were all talking about relating to women. Ohhh, you mean fucking up some Blue Pill guys approach with Red Pill game, in a club. Always with the comparing red pill sportfuckers to blue pill anything else, in a club. I thought we were talking about comparing RP to RP, and male-female relations, this does not sound like that. GUYS, Redpill doesn’t just mean masculine self-improvement to harden up your frame. It does not even mean… Read more »

gb_hill
gb_hill
6 years ago

YaReally is a simple minded twit. Rollo should ban him already. And get rid of that idiot Scray too. HABD is at least tolerable and despite his social constructivist bullshit he gets some things right. The focus of this blog is how hypergamy (and female nature in general) effects broad socio-sexual dynamics. PUA, ie structured seduction, is a very small part of that and always will be. YaReally has turned the comments section into a mindless PUA pep rally when the OVERWHELMING number of men here don’t give a shit about PUA. YaReally, take it to SedFast or Girl’s Chase… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

I think this whole comment debacle has adequately proven the negative side of tribes.

Lol, just let it go. Its a deep seated area of debate, but each camp is firmly grounded in their beliefs.

Naturals gonna natural, lol

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@gb_gill “I’ll also add that Sentient is standing out in these debates. Even his replies are short, punchy and very focused. Also, if you apply the “text analysis” method of comparing size and number of texts to see whose controlling the frame; well I think YaReally loses on that alone (not to mention his brain dead social constructivist and blank slate bullshit arguments). I’ve new found respect for Sentient. He’s and adult who thinks for himself; not a PUA Jihadi like YaReally “lol”. YaReally’s “subcomms” suck on-line as he comes off as a little brat who is desperate to be… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@hank holiday “Is grooving to music in your head high or lo value.” Grooving visibly in general is expressing yourself without worrying about social pressure, which is good subcomms. But doing it seeking validation instead of as self-expression, is low-value. So the reason behind why you’re doing it is important. I can buy a girl a drink because I’m doing it from a place of rewarding her for qualifying herself to me and I don’t care if she stays or goes (outcome independence, high-value). But a newbie buying a girl a drink is buying it hoping to “buy her time”… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@Viv “Always with the comparing red pill sportfuckers to blue pill anything else, in a club. I thought we were talking about comparing RP to RP, and male-female relations, this does not sound like that.” oh did you forget what you said already? you said that being an expert soldier/NAVY Seal/PhD Genius/whatever-the-fuck would give you good subcomms. and i explained to you why it doesn’t end up working out that way, to which you respond with some other bullshit non-sequitur about uhhhhh welll those guys are all just blue pill (of course, you didn’t make this qualification before and it… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Yareally

The time it takes you to write books on here you can easily fit in a workout lol

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ hank holiday

I saw your reply, but you summed everything up and there wasn’t any substance for me to add. You know what you want, go get that shit!!

And I tried to tamp down the debate also, but fuck it. Let it roll. New posters are joining in occasionally, and that is a plus.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@gb_hill Holy shit, even the oldschool trolls are coming out of the woodwork for the YaReally pile-on now! I haven’t seen that username in forever lol how you been, lover? <3 "YaReally has turned the comments section into a mindless PUA pep rally when the OVERWHELMING number of men here don’t give a shit about PUA" Well then you should post useful informative contributions here, like this one you're posting now. "I bet you anything that many of the SedFast posters would think you were full of shit too, especially with the looks and height don’t matter crap." lol you… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@scray “you said that being an expert soldier/NAVY Seal/PhD Genius/whatever-the-fuck would give you good subcomms.”

..If they were RP. I said that too. I think its very important that we maintain context. We are talking about RP guys with looks vs RP guys with PUA skills. they will have different game, but they can both get laid.

I did also say that you guys are MLG Pro. Can’t you just take a compliment? Sheesh!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scray

FWIW, my frame is made of wurtzite boron nitride.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@blax

Okay, just checking that my conclusions were solid. Planning nights out now. SHould be able to get several FRs over the next week.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@scray @Via Vitae “and i explained to you why it doesn’t end up working out that way, to which you respond with some other bullshit non-sequitur about uhhhhh welll those guys are all just blue pill (of course, you didn’t make this qualification before and it didn’t seem that important to you then)” lol this. “We are talking about RP guys with looks vs RP guys with PUA skills. they will have different game, but they can both get laid.” Here Vitae, maybe this’ll make things easier for ya: http://www.soccertackle.com/ekmps/shops/soccertackle/images/football-goal-dollies-%5B3%5D-736-p.jpg @Bromeo “The time it takes you to write books on… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

the subcoms for the African with the rifle is easy pay day
literally the worst technical and tactical fighters around. Their best mission still came with an exchange rate of hundreds to one

I think there is some confusion about what is biological and what is soical conditioning. The ptsd fear I mentioned is social conditioning; wanting powerful men is biological

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

I smell capitulation….

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

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Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@hank holiday YaReally’s posts have intrigued me so much that I too am planning some nights out, just to pay more attention and make mental notes about the young chick/old guy dynamic. I think I can roll into the club and snatch up any barely club-legal babe there, but I might roll up in there and get blown the fuck out. There’s only one way to find out for sure. No matter how it turns out, it will be enormously fun and positive because I’m rolling with my favorite bro, who is 1) buff as fuck 2) cool and funny… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“the subcoms for the African with the rifle is easy pay day”

And Elliot Rodgers felt entitled to sex and was a certified pussy slayer.

Never figured how the hood rats with their sideways Glocks figure on winning the race war against people who hunt feral pigs and outnumber them 10 to 1.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

YaReally Sentient HABD Wala Scray Quixotic Scribblerg Forge et al EPIC FR/Lay Report below. Short version: online date – first meet to lay in 20 mins with a 22 year old redhead, cold sober. Don’t know if I’ll ever beat this record. It’s longish but I think managing the logistics and the texting and calling her out on her BS was in some ways the most important part – but you can skip to the actual physical interaction in the second half if you want. Just..thanks a lot guys. I know everyone’s been arguing looks to death here, but I… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

LOL kfg
I was talking to my neighbor a few days back, he was apologizing for the behavior of his city kin folk. Anyrate one of the things he said was along the lines of…. urban Blacks don’t know a damn thing about White folk.

I thought it was an interesting/ telling comment

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“we’re changing up locations and invading Manhattan from the Village all the way up to Harlem.”

I love cruising Houston St. in the evening. 3rd is OK too, but no more CB’s at the end of the rainbow. I like Harlem in the daytime. It’s got a “vibe.” Midtown is pretty much “meh.”

“….. just gotta remember to take them out of my pocket before I get home.”

Protip.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Culum ” d) Sex is just not a big deal for girls is it? I mean, not really. Especially 22 year olds like this?” Not for many of them. Useless anectdote #92386 Post divorce. I was ” seeing ” an absolutely banging 27 year old chick. Unbelievably haawwttt..lol. Stopped by her house one Monday night for some headboard destroying sex, and was confronted with her 20 year old sister. My bang date was not home at the time ( I never called, just showed up with hard-on ). Sister not as hot, but not bad. But my mind was… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ SFC Ton ” Anyrate one of the things he said was along the lines of…. urban Blacks don’t know a damn thing about White folk. ” As silly as this sounds, it is pretty much true. My folks ( loosely ) are kind of walled off from most of society in the harder urban areas. ” white folk ” as they say, are people in movies and on tv and police officers. I was very, very fortunate in that I was the last generation to grow up in a neighborhood that consisted of all kinds of people, so you… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

http://www.epicrights.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CBGB-Photo.jpg

Gone but not forgotten. Like Joan Jett’s cameltoe.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

Thanks for the confirmation Blaximus.

scray
6 years ago

@viv

You said this

“We all know RP, and practicing game assumes RP, so to be a usable comparison we need to be comparing RP guys who work on themselves through other things, vs RP guys who focus on game. I think a guy can improve plenty of his subcomms with things other than chasing women, and internalized RP will help him hold frame in front of a woman.”

So both camps were rp…….
I explained the difference and then you dropped in your bs about how I must have been referring to BP guys…..like…..

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Rollo Serious question, not an attack: What did guys do to learn and/or display good sub coms prior to all the south beach night clubs being built? I presume our grandmothers wanted to bang our grandfathers at some point in time, how did grandpa go about DHV and sub coms? our grandpas didn’t need to ‘learn’ shit…lol… and our grandmas were all over them…lol… those men understood at a core level that they had actual VALUE as an individual man into and of themselves… regardless of how they looked, how much money they had, what their clothes were like, etc…… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Useless comment #1,241: As I went back to spray Roundup on my in-field earlier today, I scared the shit out of a bedded deer. I could tell if it was my height or the choice of headgear hat. But most likely the vibration of my electric 4 gallon back-pack sprayer. She bolted 25 yards away and briefly got entangled in some nylon mesh fencing. But quickly un-entangled herself and avoided me having to bring out a knife/box-cutter. Probably a doe that was parking her recent fawn that I scared up Sunday when flail-mowing a foot plot. Briffault’s law and all.… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

@YaReally Lol. Quite simply: I was speaking about masculinity. Independent of looks, clothes, money and especially independent of women. You’re right. It is impossible in nature for a man to contain both solid confident internals in the same space as classically masculine externals. It’s a paradox. It just cannot happen. All of the hidden camera video footage from all the world’s bar scenes have proven so without exception. Such men are unicorns. I look forward to reading your future paper in Nature magazine, sir — a double-sized special edition to contain all of your words and associated 2,000 scientific footnotes… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@YaReally Wait, so do we listen to Harvard studies or not? I’m so confused. I’d rather rely on the field results from hundreds of thousands of dudes hitting the field like Tyler, but apparently studies are held in high regard…unless they disagree with our preconceived notions and then instead of pointing out the flaws in the study’s design (like I did with the “how sexy ARE muscles?” study), everyone just emotionally sweeps it under the rug and says “WHATEVER!!!!! It just IS!!!!!” lol well, it’s not harvard, but here’s the evo-psych study that explains exactly WHY… ‘looks’ CAN’T matter to… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

@HABD

“BUT if there is ANY of your confidence
that is coming from outside your own frame (ie ‘given’ to you…bc of your ‘look’), you WON’T be able to develop properly… bc it seems to be wired in as
a basic evolved survival reflex…”

Honest question. So if a perfect 10, who is external to you, *gives* you IOIs and is DTF, does that *give* you increased self-confidence?

lol

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Blaximus

@ scray

FWIW, my frame is made of wurtzite boron nitride.

i would have thought it was londaleite… bc you know it’s…natural…lol

good luck!

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Culum

EPIC FR/Lay Report below. Short version: online date – first meet to lay in 20 mins with a 22 year old redhead, cold sober. Don’t know if I’ll ever beat this record.

props on that!… will try to read it later this week, but that first sentence was all i needed to know…lol…

good luck!

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Ajax

Honest question. So if a perfect 10, who is external to you, *gives* you IOIs and is DTF, does that *give* you increased self-confidence?

nope… i don’t need it… and there’s really no where for it to fit in…my egos too big…lol

good luck!

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Ajax

and I just had another thought. why would that hb10’s opinion mean more to me than the opinion of a fat 4?… serious question…

good luck!

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Culum Glad you got what you wanted. Now you see how quickly you can overwhelm a girl, you wont need to spend 2 hours jawing in the future. On phone so just some short observations: The whole FR is an excellent example of the AF BB female strategy in action. It is a cannot lose strategy. She gets high desire good genes alpha sex or she is getting an orgasm amd provisioning out of you. She is good either way. Can you see how your FR might have played out on the Plains of Ur? Where a young girl is… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Ajax Parallax “You’re right. It is impossible in nature for a man to contain both solid confident internals in the same space as classically masculine externals” This is not and has never been my position, and I have explained to you numerous times why this is an inaccurate misinterpretation of my position on your part. But I understand, it’s a lot easier to feel like you’re right when you just make straw-men up to argue with. “Honest question. So if a perfect 10, who is external to you, *gives* you IOIs and is DTF, does that *give* you increased self-confidence?”… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

@HABD wrote “and I just had another thought. why would that hb10’s opinion mean more to me than the opinion of a fat 4?… serious question…” Then I will give you a serious answer. I never mentioned anything about some fat 4 or each of their “opinions.” Stop making shit up. You place a higher value on a 10, independent of her fine opinion, because you are more attracted to a 10. Ergo, what you value is externally based. And she is the one who is *giving* you access to that value. Make sense? And if you are telling me… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Ajax Then I will give you a serious answer. I never mentioned anything about some fat 4 or each of their “opinions.” Stop making shit up. i never make shit up…lol… my brain doesn’t work that way (seriously…) so, what else would you call their ‘validation’ of you?… i called it their ‘opinion’, but whatever you WANT to call it, it’s the same dynamic for a fat 4 or a hb10… it’s just pussy, yo…AWALT… You place a higher value on a 10, independent of her fine opinion, because you are more attracted to a 10. Ergo, what you value… Read more »

Bart
Bart
6 years ago

Awesome post. “As a unitary collective of men, the manosphere terrifies the Feminine Imperative. That fear, however, doesn’t stem from any real prospective violence, but the potential for a larger ‘awareness’ in men of their own conditions and the roles they are expected to play to perpetuate a feminine-centric social order.” This is our rebellion and most powerful tool. Even more than the improvements we make in our own lives and the trust we build with friends, this is the stuff that blows their shit up. They trade on privileged access to information and count on isolating men in order… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@bart

You have the strange idea that the comments section could be used to comment on Rollo’s post. Please get with the program.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Ajax Parallax
“And she is the one who is *giving* you access to that value.”

That’s the FI you’re under and promoting. A high-value guy internally understands that HE is allowing HER access to HIM. 😉 The fact that that concept sounds insane and delusional to you shows how far the FI’s tentacles have sunk into you.

Think on it, grasshopper. lol

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ajax i didn’t say it had a negative effect on mental health. “you have more energy and you feel strong and you feel sharper, which means that if you don’t have a good frame and a good way to approach social situations, you will be HYPER reactive and get SUPER butthurt. and now, guess what? you’re strong and fit enough to make some bad decisions. like, was it fun being at house parties and knocking drinks out of people’s hands for perceived disrespect and making people look stupid by losing wrestling/fights with a guy half a foot shorter than them?… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Scray @Ajax Parallax “here….go give a kid who has shitty internals some POWER and see what happens.” Nothing funnier to watch while grabbing hotdogs with a girl at at hotdog stand stand outside the club at last-call, than the crowd of jacked dudes from inside who aren’t taking a girl home start getting into scraps with eachother because they’re all overflowing with testosterone and sexual frustration and drunk decision making skills and need to vent it out lol Like the dude in this video trying to pick a fight in the bar and then ending up fighting in the background… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

This is one of the best posts this year. I wish you’d broken it down into a couple of articles, because there are quite a few points I wanted to comment about. It is also one of the few articles where you give specific advice. In that regard, I was reminded of a philosophy class I took in school: Philosophy of love and friendship. Which covered a lot of inter-gender relationship dynamics. A lot of material was based on Greek culture and art. I noticed that in the early stages of classical age, art in Greece was very male-centric. And… Read more »

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