Tribes

tribes

I received this email some time ago, but I felt it needed some serious consideration to give the concept the justice it deserved.

Rollo — You’ve been a major help to my understanding the underlying dynamics between men and women. I’ve observed them in bits and pieces over the years but never really understood the whys behind them or how to turn them in our favor.

It seems like one mid-term focus you have is on male-male dynamics, specifically fathers and sons. But I also wonder whether you’d consider writing more about bonding and support between men and how those relationships can anchor men’s lives at a time when male relationships are regarded with skepticism by larger society. Lately it’s struck me that men tend to innately trust the men they know and distrust those they don’t (and that it’s often the reverse for women). This inclines us to believe women when they decry the “assholes” who have mistreated them in the past while women are empathetic and credulous toward women whose character they don’t know and whom they’ve never met.

Many of us out here are lacking strong male relationships, and our small social circles translate to fewer men we innately trust and more men we innately don’t. Women seem to regard male friendships as a luxury at best–we should be focusing on career, family, and her needs–while women’s friendships are seen as a lifeline in their crazy, have-it-all world. Indeed, a man discouraging his SO’s friendships is widely seen as a sign of emotional abuse, whereas the reverse is “working on the relationship.”

This strikes me as a deep but largely untapped Red Pill well and could provide essential guidance for men looking to live a proud, constructive Red Pill life however women and children might fit into it. I’d definitely welcome your insights in future entries.

Look forward to every post!

Back in February Roosh proposed (and attempted to initiate) a worldwide event that would be a sort of ‘gathering of the tribes’ with the intent of having men get together in small local gatherings to “just have a beer and talk amongst like-minded men.” My impression of the real intent of in putting this together notwithstanding, I didn’t think it was a bad idea. However, the problem this kind of ‘tribes meeting’ suffers from is that it’s entirely contrived to put unfamiliar men together for no other purpose than to “have a beer and talk.” The problem with unfamiliar men coming together simply to meet and relate is a noble goal, however, the fundamental ways men communicate naturally makes the function of this gathering seem strange to men.

Women talk, men Do.

The best male friends I have share one or more common interests with me – a sport, a hobby, music, art, fishing, lifting, golf, etc. – and the best conversations I can remember with these friends occurred while we were engaged in some particular activity or event. Even just moving a friend into his new house; it’s about accomplishing something together and in that time relating about shit. When I lived in Florida some of the best conversations I had with my studio guys were during some project we had to collaborate on for a week or two.

Women, make time with the express purpose of talking between friends. Over coffee perhaps, but the act of communication is more important than the event or activity. Even a ‘stitch-and-bitch’ is simply an organized excuse to get together and relate. For women, communication is about context. They are rewarded by how that communication makes them feel. For Men communication is about content and they are rewarded by the interchange of information and ideas.

[…]From an evolutionary perspective, it’s likely that our hunter-gatherer tribal roles had a hand in men and women’s communication differences. Men went to hunt together and practiced the coordinated actions for a cooperative goal. Bringing down a prey animal would have been a very information-crucial effort; in fact the earliest cave paintings were essentially records of a successful hunt and instructions on how to do it. Early men’s communication would necessarily have been a content driven discourse or the tribe didn’t eat.

Similarly women’s communications would’ve been during gathering efforts and childcare. It would stand to reason that due to women’s more collectivist roles they would evolve to be more intuitive, and context oriented, rather than objective oriented. A common recognition in the manosphere is women’s predisposition toward collectivism and/or a more socialist bent to thinking about resource distribution. Whereas men tend to distribute rewards and resources primarily on merit, women have a tendency to spread resources collectively irrespective of merit. Again this predisposition is likely due to how women’s ‘hard-wiring’ evolved as part of the circumstances of their tribal roles.

From this perspective it’s a fairly easy follow to see how the tendency of men to distrust unfamiliar (out-group) men might be a response to a survival threat whereas women’s implicit trust of any member of the ‘sisterhood’ would be a species-survival benefit to the sex that requires the most parental investment and mutual support.

Divide & Conquer

In our post-masculine, feminine-primary social order it doesn’t take a Red Pill Lens to observe the many examples of how the Feminine Imperative goes to great lengths to destroy the intrasexual ‘tribalism’ of men. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution the social press of equalism has attempted to force a commonly accepted unisex expectation upon men to socialize and interact among themselves as women do.

The duplicity in this striving towards “equality” is, of course, the same we find in all of the socialization efforts of egalitarian equalism; demasculinizing men in the name of equality. A recent, rather glaring, example of this social push can be found (where else?) at Harvard University where more than 200 female students demonstrated against a new policy to discourage participation in single-gender clubs at the school. You see, women were very supportive of the breaking of gender barriers when it meant that men could no longer discriminate in male-exclusive (typically male-space) organizations, but when that same equalist metric was applied to women’s exclusive organizations, then the cries were accusations of insensitivity and the banners read “Women’s Groups Keep Women Safe.”

That’s a pretty fresh incident that outlines the dynamic, but it’s important to understand the underlying intent of the “fine for me, but not for thee” duplicity here. That intent is to divide and control men’s communication by expecting them to communicate as women do, and ideally to do so on their own accord by conditioning them to accept women’s communication means as the normatively correct way to communicate. As I’ve mentioned before, the most effective social conventions are the ones in which the participants willingly take part in and willingly encourage others to believe is correct.

Tribes vs. The Sisterhood

Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger whole of conventional masculinity.

Because of men’s’ outward reaching approach to interacting with the world around him, there’s really no unitary male tribe in the same fashion that the collective ‘Sisterhood’ of women represents. One of the primary strengths of the Feminine Imperative has been its unitary tribalism among women. We can see this evidenced in how saturated the Feminine Imperative has become into mainstream society and how it’s embedded itself into what would otherwise be diametrically opposed factions among women. Political, socioeconomic and religious affiliations of women (various sub-tribes) all become secondary to the interests of ‘womankind’ when embracing the collective benefits of being women and leveraging both their victim and protected statuses.

Thus, we see no cognitive dissonance when women simultaneously embrace a hostile opposition to one faction while still retaining the benefits that faction might offer to the larger whole of the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood is unitary first and then it is broken down into sub-tribes. Family, work, interests, political / religious compartmentalizations become sublimated to fostering the collective benefits of womankind.

While I can speculatively understand the socio-evolutionary underpinnings of how this psychological dynamic came to be, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out just how effective this unitary collectiveness has been in shaping society towards a social ideal that supports an unfettered drive towards women’s gender-coded need to optimize Hypergamy. This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism.

Threat Assessments

Asserting any semblance of a unitary male tribalism is a direct threat to the Feminine Imperative. In The Threat I began the essay with this summation:

Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy. Red Pill awareness and Game lessens women’s control in that equation, which is sexy from the standpoint of dealing with a self-aware high SMV man, but also threatening from the perspective that her security depends on him acquiescing to her Frame and control.

Up to this point, Game has represented an individualized threat to women’s Hypergamous control, but there has always been a larger majority of men (Betas) who’ve been easily kept ignorant of their true potential for control. However, on a larger social landscape, the Feminine Imperative understands the risks involved in men forming a unitary tribe – a Brotherhood – based solely on benefitting and empowering men. The manosphere, while still effectively a collection of sub-tribes, represents a threat to the imperative because its base purpose is making men aware of their true state in a feminine-centric social order.

As such, any attempt to create male-specific, male-empowering organizations is made socially synonymous with either misogyny (hate) or homosexuality (shame). Ironically, the shame associated with homosexuality that a fem-centric society would otherwise rail against becomes an effective form of intra-gender shame when it’s applied to heterosexual collectives of men. Even suggestions of male-centered tribalism are attached with homosexual suspicions, and these come from within the collectives of men themselves.

tribalism_1a

The above picture is from an “academic” conference (class?) Mediated Feminisms: Activism and Resistance to Gender and Sexual Violence in the Digital Age held at UCL in London. There’s quite a bit more to this than just collecting and codifying the sub-tribes of the manosphere, more can be found here.

Now, granted, this conference is replete with all of the uninformed (not to mention willful ignorance) concern to be expected of contemporary feminists, but this does serve as a current example of how men organizing for the exclusive benefit of men is not just equated with misogyny, but potential violence. As a unitary collective of men, the manosphere terrifies the Feminine Imperative. That fear, however, doesn’t stem from any real prospective violence, but the potential for a larger ‘awareness’ in men of their own conditions and the roles they are expected to play to perpetuate a feminine-centric social order. They fear to lose the control that the ‘socially responsible’ ignorance of men provides them with.

Men’s predisposition to form sub-tribes and intrasexual competition (“lets you and him fight”) has always been a means of covert control by women, but even still the Feminine Imperative must insert its influence and oversight into those male spaces to make use of  them. Thus, by assuring that feminine primacy is equated with the idea of inclusive equalism, all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female. For an easy example of this, compare and contrast the reactions to Harvard’s unisex institution of campus club equalism to the worldwide reactions to, and preemption of, the “Tribe” meetings only attempted to be organized by Return of Kings in February.

Making Men

By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences.

I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep men guessing and doubting about their “security in their manhood” while asserting that the feminine-correct definition is the only legitimate definition of healthy, ‘non-toxic’, masculinity. This deliberate obfuscation and ambiguity about what amounts to ‘authentic masculinity’ is another means of controlling men’s awareness of their true masculine potential and value – a potential that they rightly fear will mean acquiescing to men’s power over their Hypergamous social and personal control. Anything less than a definition of masculinity that fosters female primacy and fempowerment is labeled “toxic masculinity” – literally and figuratively poisonous.

This is the real, operative reason behind the obsessive, often self-contradicting, need for control of male space by the Feminine Imperative. Oversight and infiltration of male sub-tribes and instituting a culture of self-policing of the narrative within those sub-tribes maintains a feminine-primary social order.

Building Better Betas

Since the time in which western(izing) societies shifted to unfettering Hypergamy on a social scale there has been various efforts to demasculinize – if not outright feminize – the larger majority of men. Today we’re seeing the results of, and still persistent efforts of this in much starker contrast as transgenderism and the social embrace of foisting gender-loathing on boys becomes institutionalized. A deliberate promotion of a social constructivist narrative about gender identity and the very early age at which children can “choose” a gender for themselves is beginning to be more and more reinforced in our present feminine-primary social order.

As a result of this, and likely into our near future, today’s men are conditioned to feel uncomfortable being “men”. That discomfort is a direct result of the ambiguity and misguidance about conventional masculinity the imperative has fostered in men when they were boys. This feminization creates a gender loathing, but that loathing comes as the result of an internal conflict between the feminine-correct “non-toxic” understanding of what masculinity ought to be and the conventional aspects of masculinity that men need to express as a result of their biology and birthright.

Effectively, this confusion has the purpose of creating discomfort in men among all-male sub-tribes. These masculine-confused men have difficulty with intersocial communication within the sub-tribes they’re supposed to have some sort of kin or in-group affiliation with.  Even the concept of “male bonding” has become a point of ridicule (something typical of male buffoons) or suspiciously homosexual , so, combined with the feminine identification most of these men default to, today’s “mangina” typically has more female friends and feels more comfortable communicating as women communicate. These men have been effectively conditioned to believe or feel that male interaction or organization is inherently wrong, uncomfortable or contrived, possibly even threatening if the organizing requires physical effort. Consequently, interacting as a male becomes ridiculous or superficial.

Pushing Back

What then is to be done about this conditioning? For all the efforts to destroy or regulate male tribalism, the Feminine Imperative still runs up against men’s evolved predispositions to interact with the outside world instead of fixating on the inside world of women. Below I’ve pieced together some actionable ideas that might help men come to a better, unitary way of fostering the male tribalism the Feminine Imperative would see destroyed or used as a tool of soci0-sexual control:

  • While it is vitally important to maintain a male-specific mental point of origin, together men need a center point of action. Women talk, men do. Men need a common purpose in which the tribe can focus its efforts on. Men need to build, coordinate, win, compete and problem solve amongst themselves. The ‘purpose’ of a tribe can’t simply be one of getting together as like-minded men; in fact, groups with such a declared purpose are often designed to be the most conciliatory and accommodating of the Feminine Imperative. Men require a common, passionate purpose to unite for.

 

  • Understand and accept that men will naturally form male hierarchies in virtually every context if that tribe is truly male-exclusive. There will be a reflexive resistance to this, but understand that the discomfort in acknowledging male hierarchies stems from the Feminine Imperative’s want to make any male authority a toxic form of masculinity. Contrary to feminine conditioning male hierarchies are not necessarily based on Dark Triad manipulations. That is the ‘fem-think’ – any male created hierarchy of authority is by definition evil Patriarchy.

 

  • Recognize existing male sub-tribes for what they are, but do so without labeling them as such. Don’t talk about Fight Club, do Fight Club. As with most other aspects of Red Pill aware Game, it is always better to demonstrate rather than explicate. There will always be an observer effect in place when you call a male group a “male group”. That tribe must exist for a passionate reason other than the express idea that it exists to be about men meeting up. Every sub-tribe I belong to, every collective interest I share with other men, even the instantly forming ones that arise from an immediate common need or function, all exist apart from “being” about men coming together.Worldwide “tribe” day failed much for the same reasons an organization like the Good Men Project fails – they are publicized as a gathering of men just “being” men.

 

  • Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join. There will always be a want to accommodate women and/or the fears of not being accommodating of feminine-primary mindsets within that all-male purview. Often this will come in subtle forms of anonymous White Knighting or reservations about a particular passion due to other men’s Blue Pill conditioning to always consider the feminine before considerations of themselves or the tribe. It is vitally important to the tribe to quash those sympathies and compromising attitudes as these are exactly the designs of the Feminine Imperative to destroy a tribe from within.Make no concessions for competency of women within the tribe if you find yourself in a unisex tribal situation. Even the U.S. military is guilty of reducing combat service requirements for women as recently as this month. If you are a father or you find yourself in a role of mentoring boys or young men it is imperative that you instill this no-compromise attitude in them and the organizations that they create themselves.

 

  • The primary Red Pill / Game tenets that you’ve learned with respect to women are entirely applicable in a larger scope when it comes to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative. Frame and a return to a collectively male-exclusive Mental Point of Origin are two of the primary tenets to apply to non-intimate applications of resistance in terms of aspects of society. Observations and the Red Pill Lens should inform your interactions with women and men on a social scale.

 

Finally, I want to close by restating that my approach to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative on a meta-social scale is the same bottom-up approach I used with unplugging men from their Blue Pill doldrums. Once men have taken the first steps in Red Pill awareness this new perspective has a tendency to expound into greater social understandings and a want for applications beyond hooking up with desirable women. That Red Pill awareness becomes a way of life, but moreover, it should inform us as men, as tribes, about how best to maintain ourselves as masculine-primary individuals and organizations.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Blue Pill men think that because they value looks and women are like men, then women also value looks, so men have to get jacked, etc.”

Believe it or not -this.

“I value looks and I value my looks, so I work to improve my looks…for me.”

I think about my looks so little that until a week or two ago I though my eyes were brown – and they aren’t.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

Looking through Kirilll Was Here twitter illustrates how looks or getting in shape don’t matter. But I am surprised that getting in shape isn’t seen as having a benefit to a man feeling more confident in himself and how that can lead him to being more confident about other things. I can see the side of the argument the guy who was shy, starts a workout program, doesn’t get better at interacting with people because he’s in better shape. It’s his trial and error of doing the interacting and getting better at it. The in shape shy guy is still… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@asd “you are confused and misunderstand what he is saying.” OK, what is he saying and what is my confusion? “Blue Pill men think that because they value looks and women are like men, then women also value looks, so men have to get jacked, etc.” BTW, I totally agree with this, and said as much myself earlier. It’s implicit in my personal framework that I described 1-2 days back. You know the one with actors, observers, etc. Since nobody commented on it, I figured they did not care, which is fine, but it does line up with what you… Read more »

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@WCB, exactly. Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish? Can’t he just have subcomms from that? Oh, and say I was talking about being a Navy SEAL, instead of just lifting, would it be OK then?

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“I wasn’t annoyed and I don’t agree with you that YaReally talked himself into a corner. He has been very clear, but you are confused and misunderstand what he is saying.” Some were annoyed. I had trouble following the line of thought and the message. I don’t disagree with much of anything he said. But he was selling himself and transgressing Law #4. And not very clear, except for his intent. He was not speaking in universals. And that is OK. I understood how he said it and was more focused on what he is trying to communicating than what… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Forgot to drop the link to Mrs. Haseltons article in New York Post. It is not red pill informative except for the fact that it is out there and old married guys get laid during womens fertile cycle. If I were a single guy trying to get laid and YaReally said that supreme game makes the ovulatory cyle of girls he is gaming irrelevant, I would not believe him because everything matters and everyone is not as masterful (but they should be) as him and scray.

http://nypost.com/2010/07/25/dissecting-the-mating-game/

The Awakened One
The Awakened One
6 years ago

@Yareally

The cognitive dissonance here is amazing. When you want to learn anything really well (MMA, Weight lifting, rifle shooting, fixing a car, banging <25 year old girls) you:

1. Find people who are current experts in the field (as in they have done it and continue to do it)
2. Learn everything they have to teach you
3. Apply what you learn
4. Evaluate
5. Repeat with effort until competence gained

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“I think about my looks so little that until a week or two ago I though my eyes were brown – and they aren’t.” I think about my looks so little, but I got off my ass this morning and decided to get some new contacts which I wear about 1% of the time so I could improve my Game. And while I was at it I said WTF?, time to get new glasses after 10 years. I have a deep distrust of going to doctors, even junior grade doctors. I went to the retinal specialist last Sept and they… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“@WCB, exactly. Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish? Can’t he just have subcomms from that? Oh, and say I was talking about being a Navy SEAL, instead of just lifting, would it be OK then?” I’ve done some pretty hard shit in my life. Stuff that I’m proud of personally even after ditching the socially conditioned values of those things. Honestly, it does help with my subcomms I think. Especially amongst men. I haven’t felt intimidated by another man in a long time.… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

Via Vitae,
Yeah, you get through Navy Seals, maybe you come to a mind set that you can’t believe some of things you used to worry about before.

Some of Krilliex Was Here twitter made me think of when China had the one child policy and boys were what everybody wanted. Or should say the fathers wanted.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@The Awakened One

The cognitive dissonance is generated by red pill aware/game guys having different goals.

Or from moving others moving the goal posts.

Or from different tribal goals.

Or from different Venn circles in the manosphere.

It is observable.

I agree with your bullet points.

But: different goals in red pill awareness and game.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

. my eyes started going hell a few years back. Now my mom sees better than me. I used to shoot highpower without correction. Soon I won’t be able to get my DL without correction.

I had a 6’1′ buddy who lifted a little and also wore glasses, the glasses did not stop him from getting cold-opened by married women in places like Costco. He had zero game so he would never dream of escalating. Maybe he had good subcomms due to having his stuff wired tight.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

That’s what I was meaning Andy. It can work, and it can not work. Discussion felt like if it can work than it should work more often like in your case. Maybe what ever you did can end up helping you deal with really nice looking women.
Or if you ever do get better at it, it came from something completely unrelated or uncorrelated. If it will happen, doesn’t mean it was an untrue or invalid idea or reality.

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@via vitae “Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish? Can’t he just have subcomms from that?” http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=143517603 All of those guys are in way better shape than me, and as scray said earlier, getting that physique is damn hard work. Getting in shape didn’t give them confidence, good subcomms or internal mindsets. You know what would give them confidence around hot women? Interacting with them, pushing their own boundaries and shattering limiting beliefs about them. Same goes for rich guys, I don’t doubt how… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Maybe he had good subcomms due to having his stuff wired tight.”

There is always that. After 1066 comments vouching for it….

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

…. when’s the next OP coming? I see the Fonze approaching the comment section on water skis. Enough of this dumb shit already. If guys think lifting is worthless, don’t fucking lift. If guys think some vagina is special, fucking limit your options greatly and chase that shit 24 fucking hours a day, 7 days a week. If you believe strongly in social conditioning and think it runs the world, believe that shit. Keep placing women on the level of aliens and pedestalizing them religiously if you think that is a win. Fuck understanding and gaining actual masculinity. It will… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“@KFG, what color did you observe a week or two ago? ”

I looked into a properly lit makeup mirror in an otherwise unlit room, and a glowing, amber eyed leopard stared back at me. To be honest, it freaked me out a bit.

My eyes are hazel. They change apparent color depending on the light source. There is a ring of brown around the pupil, which isn’t uncommon in hazel eyes, but in average light they are mostly a yellow-green, and in some light turn amber, or amber with green specks.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

“I think about my looks so little that until a week or two ago I though my eyes were brown

Says the man who bought a make up mirror.

“I see the Fonze approaching the comment section on water skis. Enough of this dumb shit already.

You getting email notifications?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Says the man who bought a make up mirror.”

I did no such thing. I have lived in houses, driven cars, read books, played instruments and camped on land I did not buy.

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

“I’ve done some pretty hard shit in my life. Stuff that I’m proud of personally even after ditching the socially conditioned values of those things. Honestly, it does help with my subcomms I think. Especially amongst men.” That means they are real and women will pick up on them too. Just remember that when you are feeling nervous. 90% of this game is all mental. “But put a really hot chick in front of me and usually I freeze up. Maybe you’re a natural and cant sympathize, but for me it doesnt translate. I know how to communicate with men… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

Joking KFG

Via Vitae
Via Vitae
6 years ago

@Blaximus. love it. Also, that thing you said earlier about giving yourself permission. That’s some deep stuff there.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Via – You are growing on me…”I used to try to communicate with girls, but actually that is kind of pointless. You should try to fuck them instead.
Not joking.”

They really don’t want to talk either…

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Blaximus Reminds me of when I quit my job. Spent months agonizing over how I was going to leave, social pressure to stay because I’d be abandoning everyone else, worrying about having to deal with my boss’s reaction, etc. One day I snapped and that was it. I had gotten extremely sick and my boss was just a fucking asshole about it. Never missed a single day of work until then. It had been years. That was my breaking point. Had put up with so much shit. I’m puking my breakfast and blood in the sink in the bathroom… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

@Blaximus Spoiler Alert. Take a deep breath. Over 1k posts now haha. I finally get it now. No matter how many times many of us, including Rollo, have hammered that looks and muscles are not the be-all-end-all key elements to success in life (yes, gasp, including success with that glowing golden pussy between a girl’s legs, and that you MUST also have good subcomms — it falls on deaf fuckin’ ears. For some reason any conversation around *Have A (strong masculine physical, healthy and groomed) Look* is so utterly reviled with such bizarre hypersensitive push-back, that it is always twisted… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
6 years ago

As a society our expectations have become unrealistic. Through make up a woman can now look like the stars she idolises. If she can look like her, then it isn’t much of a leap to want the same trappings as those celebrities. So much of her identity is in how she looks with her ‘face’ on that she can’t bear the thought of anyone seeing her without it. She goes on dates but can’t take it further than that because her date can never get to see the real her. About a year ago me and colleague watched a couple… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

comment image

Work out

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@KFG: I tried to find the 10 minute workout and didn’t manage yet, and it seemed nobody actually linked to it (I saw a video in the thread, was that it?). I’m very doubtful that it would work the same as a free weight program taking more time per session but I’ll see if I can give it a go. I’m doing SL 5×5 which is allegedly 45 min or so – apparently not for me. Just resting between sets takes at least 36 minutes (on workout A). Add the actual sets, warm-up, and the accessory dips and I’m there… Read more »

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@YaReally: “”Notice if you re-read your post you’ve stopped mentioning bad things about her. You’re rationalizing her behavior as normal because your brain is looking for any reason to keep you where you are…” Great insight. After my own back and forth with my crazy ex…I was rationalizing her horrible behavior thinking….”well maybe it was all a big misunderstanding”……”maybe I was a bit of a dick…” No. I desperately wanted to believe there was hope because 1) I was over-invested 2) I felt shame at her running off before a big event 3) she cheated and I couldn’t accept that…the… Read more »

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[…] are moving on from individual Game to its societal implications. Rollo has some suggestions for how men can break the chains that the Sisterhood attempts to impose upon men’s groups in defense of the Female […]

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I tried to find the 10 minute workout and didn’t manage yet, and it seemed nobody actually linked to it . . .” http://www.bodybyscience.net/home.html/ http://www.amazon.com/Body-Science-Research-Strength-Training/dp/0071597174 “I’m very doubtful that it would work the same as a free weight program taking more time per session . . .” And I have never said that it works the same. I have said that it works. And I have said that because it works it is the baseline to compare other programs to. I note that Graeme Obree reached a similar conclusion when training for the world hour record (He broke it twice,… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

a motherfuckingshitton of operators are fearless in a fire fight and all goofy and awkward around chicks so I am pretty sure being confident in one area doesn’t automatically carry over to another. In my case, for the 1st few months post divorce I would have to tell myself something like…. its silly to be scart etc to talk to this chick because I used to be good at this and I’ve done xyz Now that didn’t last very long but like I said I know a ton of operators who suck with chicks for a host of reasons. For… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“a motherfuckingshitton of operators are fearless in a fire fight and all goofy and awkward around chicks so I am pretty sure being confident in one area doesn’t automatically carry over to another.” Probably needed to hit the gym more and work on their biceps and build up those internals and T levels a bit more… Or maybe the problem is that putting yourself in life and death situations and leading other men isn’t masculine enough. They probably need to add in some wood working… because you know… “For all the back and forth about sub-communications and what they indicate… Read more »

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

Just had to post this link to an article on what happens when someone tries to assemble an all-female tribe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

“…better for a man to actually possess the masculine traits, qualities and assurances that those sub-coms imply than to be found wanting after convincingly aping them well enough to get the lay.” Fake it til you make it. And the cool thing is that after “aping” these subcomms to get the lay, a man sees FIRST HAND how they DIRECLY affect the woman’s attraction. These are all techniques to learn, or mindsets to internalize, and the best way to learn them is going out there and practicing. Each small success or failure is an opportunity to learn and grow and… Read more »

AvidReader
AvidReader
6 years ago

Yes, subcommunication is the key. Only because it is evolutionary imprinted. I don’t see – why all this heated arguments?! Rollo is right, so is YaReally. Subcommunication IS the key and it is imprinted in female brain to trigger attraction because through all the evolutionary history it was a tell of REAL substance behind and anyone who would try to “subcommunicate” without having this real substance behind would be quickly shut down, most likely physically, by other men of the tribe. Existence of RSD is possible only in highly civilized society with highly effective legal system and level of violence… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“Fake it til you make it. And the cool thing is that after “aping” these subcomms to get the lay, a man sees FIRST HAND how they DIRECLY affect the woman’s attraction. These are all techniques to learn, or mindsets to internalize, and the best way to learn them is going out there and practicing”

It’s almost as if there’s no correlation between the subcomms and the external stuff that we define as “masculine”… Holy. Shit.

AvidReader
AvidReader
6 years ago

“It’s almost as if there’s no correlation between the subcomms and the external stuff that we define as “masculine”… Holy. Shit.”

It is exactly that. It is an effective marketing skills set – the “quality of product” is essentially irrelevant.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Via Vitae “Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish?” Why can’t he just be confident? End of sentence. “Can’t he just have subcomms from that? Oh, and say I was talking about being a Navy SEAL, instead of just lifting, would it be OK then?” Like SFC Ton says: “a motherfuckingshitton of operators are fearless in a fire fight and all goofy and awkward around chicks so I am pretty sure being confident in one area doesn’t automatically carry over to another. ” Is… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1 “So much of her identity is in how she looks with her ‘face’ on that she can’t bear the thought of anyone seeing her without it. She goes on dates but can’t take it further than that because her date can never get to see the real her.” Yet here we are, arguing that it’s GOOD to encourage men to base their identity/self-esteem/confidence on their looks. So that we can create men that base their worth on their externals like women do. And so that when that guy at some point loses his looks/money, or takes a hit in… Read more »

NaughtyBurrito
NaughtyBurrito
6 years ago

@yareally Been following the discussion about looks and subcomms and it’s been a real eye opener for me, reading your comments reminds me of when I read Mystery method for the first time, it’s great! From the perspective of someone who has been both in shape (muscles, six pack, good looks, MMA training etc.) and not (beer gut, man boobs) and has had success with women with both, maybe I can help make sense of why you’ve been getting so much push-back on these issues. And for the record I wanna say that I completely agree with EVERYTHING you and… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

apparently I am some version of alpha and I have 0 issues with guys learning Game. Not possible to count the number of things I’ve had to learn in life. Dealing with chicks is no different congruence…. that’s the word. Thanks man though I don’t think anyone is saying a man should base his sense of self in his looks. A big issue with a lot of guys is they don’t let what they learned in the military transfer to other parts of life. Like they learn how to do a mission planing and risk analysis but won’t apply that… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally so many twists and turns, so many false choices, let’s examine these five points: “yup, I have no disagreement with that. From the very start my point has been that yes, you will absolutely get free gimme IOIs with looks. It’s just that:” OK pause on this here and note the tone of the “free” and “gimme”. How exactly are these free? A women is investing in her IOI. Full stop. She is invested. Every IOI she is giving a good looking guy is one she is not giving to you atm. They are only “free” to one who… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Money matters because it matters. Reality is real is one of my favorite maxims. Money is always being accounted for, by women and men.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

This is all one big “sometimes it can work” being turned into “it didn’t work here, so it doesn’t work”. That’s what sometimes means.
Like sometimes somebody who always points out their alphaness, may not be so alpha. Like a king who has to announce he’s in charge, may not be in charge anymore.

Paul Newman was cool. Problem with celeb examples is that women would scream for this guy too
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/phineasandferb/images/8/88/Clay_Aiken.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20131106163944

So I’ll balance with this
http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/mcqueen2_2068663b2.jpg

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Water Cannon

http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/wenn22435345.jpg

It’s pretty natural to be fairly good looking as a guy, just don’t be fat is a huge part of it.

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/wennpic/jonah-hill-premiere-moneyball-02.jpg

Your fork is the best exercise equipment you can use.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“If you want to get good at interacting with women, you have to INTERACT WITH WOMEN”

comment image

NaughtyBurrito
NaughtyBurrito
6 years ago

@Andy

LMFAO

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago
Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

lol, 12 pages and 1000+ comments, is this a new record for a single post?

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient “This is also a meaningless distinction when all the IOIs are landing on the same “good looking” archetypes surrounding you, ” no they aren’t. in fact, it’s well-established that women agree far less on what makes a man PHYSICALLY attractive than men do. ” what an unbiased average person considers good looking has been the same for hundreds of years. ” nah, man…. it’s cool, researchers are starting to catch up to this shit. now they’re admitting that > 50% of facial attractiveness judgments boil down to ‘personal judgment’ and that that ‘personal judgment’ is mostly a matter of… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@all some more research shitting all over the looks paradigm (notice the studies i link to have HUGE samples and involve more than just stick-figure drawings or whatever other stupid shit) “The problem had been that many of the previous experiments had asked just a small number of subjects to rate different faces – making it easier for fluke results to jump out. When Stefan Van Dongen at the University of Antwerp conflated the results in a large meta-analysis, he found the effect almost disappears when you consider enough people. In fact, facial symmetry may not even say much about… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@all yet another GOOD study on how subcomms and confidence make you sexier: “We gave to male participants either an aerosol spray containing a formulation of fragrance and antimicrobial agents or an otherwise identical spray that lacked these active ingredients. Over several days, we found effects between treatment groups on psychometric self-confidence and self-perceived attractiveness. Furthermore, although there was no difference between groups in mean attractiveness ratings of men’s photographs by a female panel, the same women judged men using the active spray as more attractive in video-clips, suggesting a behavioural difference between the groups. Attractiveness of an individual male’s… Read more »

Klem
Klem
6 years ago

@scray “…and that dudes just will do anything to avoid talking to women fear rules most men — it’s that simple” You nailed it. Basically guys prefer not getting laid and believing it is not their fault (because looks matter and in their eyes they don’t look good enough) instead of doing scary hard work : going to talk to hot chicks. Because as even though older married badass guys here will laugh about it, going up to a hottie totally cold, no approach invite or anything, in order to seduce her is FUCKING SCARY. It’s waaaaaaaay less scary to… Read more »

Hook or Crook
Hook or Crook
6 years ago

@YaReally I’ve been lurking for a couple of years now, but I want to say that you are the ONLY reason I even bother coming to this site, and the only reason I stayed on Roissy’s for as long as I did. I’m currently teaching my little cousin (18) about game, and time and time again, YOUR info on your archive is both the easiest to access and the most concise explanation of the concepts. 75% of my coaching to my friends via text is nothing but “oh shit, here comes another YaReally copy-paste!”, and I don’t even care. You… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“Again, this is your disconnect. No one has suggested men “base their identity/self-esteem/confidence on their looks.” This is the concern you have because you believe that any marginal acknowledgement that looks might factor into arousal/attraction/sub coms will result in a sperg like Eliot Rodgers. No one in 10 pages has said this, but I understand your concern.” Rollo… What is the difference between saying that men should base their confidence on their looks (which you deny saying) and telling them that getting in shape should make them more confident because women find muscles attractive (which you are saying)??? Like, in… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray – strawmen on top of red herring held aloft by more strawmen… Let’s play a game – how many 8+ women out there have fucked a chodey, BP or Nice Guy who was good looking? Hands up ladies. Guys who have fucked attractive women, any good looking boyfriends or husbands lurking around? Does the fact that a significant number, perhaps a majority, of attractive women have fucked [or are continuing to fuck, in the case of Scribblerg’s recent 9] good looking guys like this prove anything at all? Should the same “logic” be employed as the “Tyler is ugly,… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient ” strawmen on top of red herring held aloft by more strawmen…” yes you like asserting that over and over and over and over again ‘Let’s play a game – how many 8+ women out there have fucked a chodey, BP or Nice Guy who was good looking? Hands up ladies. Guys who have fucked attractive women, any good looking boyfriends or husbands lurking around?’ k well the questions you’re asking ‘for show of hands’ or whatever is just asking for anecdotes. i mean, even a guy like GLL says that ‘she’s fucked a guy uglier than you already,’… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“To all the haters . . .”

I haven’t seen any. Everyone here agrees that Ya Really is a tremendous resource and Rollo even links to his archives in the side bar.

Atticus
Atticus
6 years ago

I’m a sales guy. I’m really good at it. I’m good at it because I’ve made thousands of face to face, door to door cold calls. I really sucked in the beginning but kept at it reading, studying and adjusting.

That said, its been way easier for me when I was selling a good product.

Great discussion.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@NaughtyBurrito “And for the record I wanna say that I completely agree with EVERYTHING you and Scray are saying and it’s been clearing up a lot of inconsistencies wrt looks and attraction.” Glad we could help. Those inconsistencies are being glossed over by the looks matter crew, but those inconsistencies literally tell us “something is wrong with the theory, drill deeper to find out why it’s not consistent”. “there are times when I’ve been working out a lot and it’s caused me to have good subcomms, like maybe I was tired and high on endorphins and also non-reactive, causing attraction.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray – If you don’t know what you are doing, I have no time for you and if you do know what you are doing, I have no hope for you.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Lots of claimed straw men here: “A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition. This technique has been used… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

” If you don’t know what you are doing, I have no time for you and if you do know what you are doing, I have no hope for you.”

so rather than actually back your shit up with something concrete you’re going to just pull some ‘if you have to ask you’ll never know’ jive?

cool beans, i’m just gonna go ahead and file it under bullshit until you produce something solid to back up those ‘strawman/red herring’ claims.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago


“I think our focus should always remain on ensuring that we challenge the reality we perceive and discuss precisely and objectively whether or not our beliefs line up with the testable results we can replicate. ”

…but make sure you ignore all this evidence that looks don’t matter and go hit the gym to look more like Chad Thundercock because it will make you more attractive to women, but somehow DON’T attribute your self-worth and attractiveness and entitlement to women to whether or not you look like Chad Thundercock.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Oh-ok-GIF.gif

lol

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@Ya “And right now, the people doing studies don’t even know what they should be LOOKING for or testing” sure they do, the key is babies An experiment was carried out in which a male confederate, seated at a pavement area of a bar, happened to meet his “sister” (a female confederate) and her baby. In one case, the confederate interacted with the baby, whereas in the other case he paid no attention to him. A few minutes later, while the confederate was alone, he solicited a young woman who was seated near his table and asked her for her… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

It is about 10 pages since I have addressed my actual position at all. It has been henged in with strawmen and false dichotomies. Any time I attempt to reach my position I bump into the henge and have to address that. Any “hate” I appear to have directed at Ya Really hasn’t been directed to the core issue, but to the henge of what Aristotle called: The Rhetoric of Persuasion. And what a contemporary idiom calls: Sneaky Lawyer Tricks. So, in case anyone has lost track of my position, which did not include the word “looks” anywhere in it,… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

A fish swimming along in its Happy Place:

http://www.fish-species.org.uk/images/puffer-fish-med-rec.jpg

The same fish non-verbally communicating “Don’t fucking mess with me”:

http://www.followingthenerd.com/site/wp-content/uploads/puffer-fish.jpg

Total lifetime hours of television watched: zero.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@kfg

So, in case anyone has lost track of my position, which did not include the word “looks” anywhere in it, I will return directly to where I came in to this movie:

1) Height, in and of itself, non-verbally communicates dominance.
2) It does so innately, it is “hardwired” and has been so for millions of years.

given your position, to keep track, what are you recommending men DO?

Klem
Klem
6 years ago

Echoing Hook or Crook, thanks a lot Ya, what you are doing is incredible, so so so much value in all your posts.
And it’s also crazy how unreactive and devoid of ego you seem, when everyone else is huffing and puffing with anger lol

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@redlight “meet his “sister”” (“this guy is okay, women are around him”) “Results showed that when the confederate interacted with the baby, he received more positive responses from women” (protector of loved ones etc) aka displayed good subcomms to them. “Have PUAs even tried bring babies into nightclubs? These researchers are light years ahead of you.” Workin on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DgnGiCgfvU @Klem “And it’s also crazy how unreactive and devoid of ego you seem, when everyone else is huffing and puffing with anger lol” Thanks for the kind words. It’s ’cause my position isn’t based on a belief system, despite guys… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . what are you recommending men DO?”

That will depend on an individual man’s goals. If the goal is “pick up hot <25 girls," go read the Ya Really Archives.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

I know which of these guys I would take into a bar to sarge with and put money on just based on a glance at their subcomms/internals lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKEH6asTYsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0l8jUmrE0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQiUYDIHORk&t=1m25s

None of these guys SHOULD be confident, if they’d just listen to social conditioning like good little rats runinng the FI race.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@kfg

That will depend on an individual man’s goals. If the goal is “pick up hot <25 girls," go read the Ya Really Archives.

cool, I was worried you wanted guys in high heels

did the pixs come from plentyoffish?

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@kfg

“So, in case anyone has lost track of my position, which did not include the word “looks” anywhere in it, I will return directly to where I came in to this movie:

1) Height, in and of itself, non-verbally communicates dominance.
2) It does so innately, it is “hardwired” and has been so for millions of years.”

This. Yareally and Scary are both dismissing biological effects on the opposite sex on the limbic level which is like said been hardwired for ions. This is not social conditioning.

Damien
Damien
6 years ago

Softek, sounds like you’re repeating the same pattern with her as with your parents. So you said they abused you, yet when you speak of them, the first thing that you mention is love? From what I’ve witnessed in life, that combination from childhood, abuse yet love, seems like a grand scale cognitive dissonance clusterfuck that completely messes up a persons common sense as well as emotional wellbeing in adult life. You remind me of a friend, you are obviously a very smart guy, but it seems that most of that brain power is used in rationalizing to keep a… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@redlight

“given your position, to keep track, what are you recommending men DO?”

Maybe we should just pretend to be ignorant about it and live in a bubble instead…

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

The video of these guys is pretty much what dudes with weak internals are like in the bar, good-looking or not: http://jezebel.com/all-the-men-were-blackout-drunk-and-awful-on-the-bachel-1778381209 Insecure under the surface, drinking to handle social anxiety, too reserved, too unreserved with no calibration, acting catty like teen girls, etc etc and there aren’t even women in the room. It’s really not difficult to out-do these guys or fuck with their frame infield lol @Bromeo @kfg “This. Yareally and Scary are both dismissing biological effects on the opposite sex on the limbic level which is like said been hardwired for ions. This is not social conditioning.”… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Lol.

1,131 comments.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . cool, I was worried you wanted guys in high heels . . .”

Heels were invented for cavalry, to prevent feet slipping from stirrups.

High heels were invented for cavalry officers, to sub-com dominance to the men under their command.

I’m not responsible for history.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg@bromeo

“This. Yareally and Scary are both dismissing biological effects on the opposite sex on the limbic level which is like said been hardwired for ions. This is not social conditioning.”

lol

because both of you are talking out of your asses. several studies have failed to find a link between height and perceived dominance in non-industrialized cultures/societies

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” I dunno, would you rather pet a cow or a scorpion? Why?”

Depends. Most likely I’d milk/eat the cow and step on the scorpion if I couldn’t walk past it and ignore.

” Would you be more afraid of Mike Tyson or Mystery? Why?”

Lol. Fear no Man. Ever.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago
mersonia
6 years ago

@Bromeo
“Maybe we should just pretend to be ignorant about it and live in a bubble instead…”

That’s….what you’re doing.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Via Vitae
““Why can’t a guy just be confident because he did something hard, that took daily discipline, planning, hard work, and PAIN to accomplish? Can’t he just have subcomms from that? Oh, and say I was talking about being a Navy SEAL, instead of just lifting, would it be OK then?””

Let’s find out:

http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/3/#comment-heartiste-654207

Watch their bios, then watch them infield interacting with women.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg 2) disconfirmed —> “However, research in some non-industrialized contexts has shown no correlation or even negative correlations between height and socioeconomic outcomes” “We presented four behavioral scenarios to each participant and asked them to point to the person in the photograph with greater strength, dominance, social concern, or knowledge. The pairs in the photographs were of the same sex and age, but one person was shorter. Tsimane’ women and men attributed greater strength, dominance, and knowledge to taller girls and boys, but they did not attribute most positive traits to taller adults, except for strength, and more social concern… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@redlight

hahaha george costanza should be TRP’s hero not some gay Chad Thundercock shit….(Chad Thundercock is how the FI wants dudes to look)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6c17WxIcCw

Seinfeld was on it before anyone lol

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” because both of you are talking out of your asses. several studies have failed to find a link between height and perceived dominance in non-industrialized cultures/societies” * jesus* [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jcju8947-E&w=640&h=360%5D I get that scray wants to ” help guys “, but I must admit that the constant ” no, your wrong because ” starts to look crazy because it appears that the end game is to just be contrary. This stuff is what makes this discussion worthless and unending. Looks gain the attention of women = NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! Ther’es no proof and attention does not equal P in… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Scray: ” . . . both of you are talking out of your asses.”

There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza.

@Redlight: “so you are going with hats?”

I go with this one, with the visible branding removed:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71h74IdpMvL._UX385_.jpg

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@scray lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDLLPW20y3U @Blaximus “Looks gain the attention of women = NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!!” That’s not what we’re saying. We agree that looks get attention, which is not nipple-hardening pussy-soaking arousal as it’s claimed to be in male stripper anecdotes. “Ther’es no proof and attention does not equal P in V!!!!!” This is a relevant data point. Ask the orbiter Nice Guys with a bunch of female friends who don’t want to fuck them whether attention is the same as P in V when your goal is finally getting your P in a V. “Height signals dominance in men =… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus
I realize this conversation doesn’t affect YOU personally. Like this is just masturbation to you because you’re already set, you’ve already lived, this is just “annoying”. But there are a shitload of lurkers and guys starting out and guys still trapped in the FI who didn’t have the benefits and opportunities you had to learn this naturally, who need to hear accurate information.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ YaReally

Dammnit!!!! I knew you were gonna say that!!! Lol.

Let me get in on the conversation man!!!!

… I can offer value.

Lmao.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago
scray
scray
6 years ago

@blax “but I must admit that the constant ” no, your wrong because ” starts to look crazy because it appears that the end game is to just be contrary.” people keep ASSERTING shit to be TRUE that is DEMONSTRABLY FALSE. lol they can pare down their claims or keep getting smacked down with the real facts. ‘This stuff is what makes this discussion worthless and unending.’ not their constant untrue and unbacked assertions? like people are making pretenses to a certain level of certainty and their claims are way way way way way disproportionate to the evidence available add… Read more »

Atticus
Atticus
6 years ago

@yareally, scray

I was with you guys until the Tall thing doesn’t matter. That’s just stupid. Google Do Women Prefer Tall Men. It’s universal that they do, regardless of Scrays “Harvard” study. That doesn’t mean a shorter guy is destined to watch Youporn the rest of his life. It just means women prefer tall men.

Personally, giant milk wagons do nothing for me. I like tight smaller perky tits. My buddy loves the big ones. Would I bang a hot girl if her tits were giant, sure.

This is just getting beyond ridiculous.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . what kfg posted, he made two separate claims.”

And I carefully labelled them as such to make that clear.

” . . . they did not attribute most positive traits to taller adults, except for strength . . .”

And, as we all know, strength is not a tool associated with dominance.

With what shall I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza?

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “… I can offer value.” lol you can, but that post wasn’t value, that was just exaggerating our positions and adding to the confusion. You are a great example of a guy with rock solid internals. But you were very fortunate to have life experiences that led you to have those. The reason we’re harping on about it is because the guys trying to tell us to shut up are going to keep those men from developing the type of internals you have, quickly. @scray @Blaximus “people keep ASSERTING shit to be TRUE that is DEMONSTRABLY FALSE. lol they… Read more »

MileHighMusicCity
MileHighMusicCity
6 years ago

Thanks Rollo, truly live changing and saving information. Thanks to all the knowledgeable commenters as well. Does anyone know of a good MRA paternity attorney? Possibly in Tennessee?

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