Damaged Goods

damaged_goods

As a part of my line of work doing liquor branding promos, I’ve frequently had to do spots with (terrestrial) radio talk shows for events and such. I’ve had to familiarize myself often with these personalities; some I became long time friends with, others kind of burned out or became victims of what they thought was a greater social proof than they actually had.

One thing I’ve noted in working with the men who host these shows is that more often than not they suffer from deeply invested Blue Pill mindsets with regard to women. Many of them eventually invited women into their male space as co-hosts to help with appealing to the female demographic, and like all other “female friendly” ventures, the character of the show shifts to promoting the same feminized boilerplate we see in Purple Pill forums and blogs that began with a more Red Pill tone.

Almost invariably there develops a segment or some call in bit where the host and hostess(es) attempt to suss out the romantic problems of a caller or emailer. If you listen to any semi-popular local morning commute show you’ll get this segment at least once or twice a week. All of them follow the same format. All of them rattle off the same Blue Pill tropes even those without the aid of a Red Pill Lens are familiar with – open communication, keep it fresh, meeting (her) needs, be supportive, etc. and all the standards you can expect from a society that doesn’t question the rote memorization of Oprah or Dr. Phil’s idioms.

If you do have a reasonably attuned Red Pill Lens you’ll just grind your teeth at all of it, but it confirms and highlights the Beta inside the host despite all his other blusterings on the show. It also serves to highlight the saturation of the Blue Pill’s conditioning reach into society.

So it was on one of these shows I was listening to this week that the ‘morning zoo’ decided to take a stab at one emailer’s very common problem. It was the typical Dead Bedrooms problem you’ll find in the subredd of the same name; “My wife is frigid, how do I get her to want to fuck me?” However, the story had a slight twist that nicely dovetails into a topic I’ve wanted to explore.

In this man’s story, he’d married a woman for all the right Blue Pill reasons. He loved her, “connected” with her on what he imagines are deep emotional levels, was supportive, dedicated, but was only able to have sex with her in as limited and as lackluster a way as she felt ‘comfortable‘ in having with him. After a year and a half of marriage, she’d completely “shut down” on him sexually. Anytime he initiated she would recoil from him and begin to cry.

There was no elaboration on her part as to why she was crying and up to the point of his seeking advice she’d offered no reason for her reluctance to fuck him. Fast forward to now and it’s been almost a year for him without sex with his wife, no explanation, and his ‘needs‘ are being unmet. He’s emotionally invested in her in the way you’d expect a Blue Pill, dutiful Beta would be, so his inner turmoil is one of the Paradox of Commitment conflict with his ‘need‘ and expectation of having sex with his wife.

As I said, this is standard Dead Bedrooms fare for the majority of men who married while fully immersed in a Blue Pill world. Unfortunately, we don’t have much more to go on – there were no descriptions of background, histories, family particulars, etc. given, however, my guess would be his wife is experiencing  the very common post-marriage Beta ‘buyers remorse’. However, this is why I thought the analysis and advice on the part of the hosts (1 male host, 1 male, and 2 female co-hosts) were very telling about the state of the Blue Pill world.

Presuming Abuse

The first reflexive interpretation on the part of the women was that this wife had some form of sexual abuse in her personal history and the husband’s initiating sex was triggering some unresolved sex issues she’d never dealt with and apparently never revealed to her husband when they were having sex in the years leading up to it. Again, there was no information about this from the emailer, but this was the first presumption the female co-hosts jumped to whenever a woman is described as crying about having sex.

We don’t really know if this is the case, but I found it interesting how useful that presumption is for women. In almost every social infraction we are expected to presume a blameless state with women. Whether that stems from rape allegations, ‘slut shaming’, past sexual history, red-handed infidelity, or, in this case, the presumed possibility of sexual abuse in a woman’s past, we are expected, on whole, as a society to presume that even the possibility is the actual fact.

Even when the actual fact is disproven, and the fault or choice blatantly falls upon the woman in question, the rationale and after-the-fact absolving of that woman of her own culpability is still expected to take precedence over the actual fault. For example, when I first detailed the situation of the woman and her husband in

For example, when I first detailed the situation of the woman and her husband in Saving the Best the reflex on the part of virtually all women responding to this story (as well as the relinks to it) and most Blue Pill men was to presume she had some damaged past where she was trying to find some emotional connection with the men she was having amateur porn orgies with in her college years. The acceptable, socially reflexive presumption was to give this woman a plausible reason – and one designed to evoke feminine victim sympathy – for her actions rather than consider that she was simply living in the moment and following her Hypergamous imperatives at the time.

Of course, the simple answer was that the husband was put into the same Dead Bedrooms scenario most men in his situation are placed in. He was the dutiful Beta in Waiting and “married a slut who fucks (him) like a prude”. There are over 30,000 subscribers on the dead bedrooms subreddit, this is not an uncommon occurrence, but just as common is the social convention of redirecting the fault on the part of the husband for his ‘selfish concerns’ for ever having been upset by this revelation about his wife. He was the bad guy for feeling ‘underserved’ with regards to his wife’s genuine, unobligated, sexual desire.

He’s the bad guy for not being understanding and supportive of the reflexive rationale that his wife must’ve been damaged goods (and damaged by other, equally horrible, men) before he decided to marry her. He’s responsible for coming to terms with it on his own. So it’s either face that or risk being perceived as the same kind of ‘typical’ asshole man who brought her to this by abandoning her in divorce.

‘Abuse’ as a Tool

‘Abuse’ is easily one of the most generic and utilitarian of catch terms and social conventions available to women living in a feminine-primary social order. It’s ambiguous, but also carries enough associative horror to get others to accept it at face value while killing any need for the uncomfortable explanations that would qualify it. A woman says “I was abused” and it ends the discussion regardless of any mitigating factors or particulars about it – and despite the particulars of what she claims ‘abuse’ to avoid. There simply is no qualifying it. If she feels abused it is abuse, and don’t worsen the situation by asking her to qualify it.

Claims of prior abuse are the perfect tool for women to explain past sexual indiscretions as well as to explain frigidity with a husband or a boyfriend, even those with whom she’d been sexual with before. Needless to say, this is a very useful tool for explaining and excusing women’s Hypergamous impulses and concurrent behaviors, however, I should note that the ‘abuse’ social convention will become less and less tenable as Open Hypergamy becomes more widespread and embraced.

For Beta men – Blue Pill men plugged into the narrative of unqualified female victimhood – there is a very real risk of becoming trapped in a cycle of White Knighting against the evils of ‘typically masculine’ men who would ‘abuse’ his princess while simultaneously reinforcing his Beta status in avoiding the perception of being an ‘abuser’ himself.

Knights Against Abuse

The men and boys I detail in Promise Keepers are prime examples of this looping presumption of abuse. For the most, these men had, or understood that they had, “abusive” fathers whom they swore never to emulate in their adult lives. While that abusiveness may or may not be factual the impression of it is what molds that man’s life, but at the same time predisposes him to the Savior Schema that only cements him into a personal life founded in Blue Pill White Knight heroics.

There develops an internal conflict for these heroes of abuse because their dedication to themselves as their own Mental Point of Origin will always be compromised by a Blue Pill conditioned responsibility of supportiveness for women. For the patient, waiting Beta, the man who’s played by what he believes are the rules for the better part of his teens and 20s, there is a unique anger he experiences when his ‘dream girl’ (or one that closely aligns with that ideal) isn’t sexual with him in the way he’s imagined women are with men during their 20s.

She’s come to him in her Epiphany Phase and after all the sexual indiscretions and self-discovery of her 20s, she finally wants to “do things right” by making him wait to have sex (so he won’t think she’s easy) and when they do it’s inhibited or becomes so once he’s locked into emotional or marital commitment with her. Now add to this the presumption of, or stated account of, ‘abuse’ she’s experienced in the past with the ‘typical’ men she was discovering herself sexually with.

You might even add the child of one of her former ‘abusers’ into the mix with whom he’s expected to form a paternal bond with. That Beta now hates those ‘abusers’ with more passion than when he was brooding about them banging the girls he wanted to fuck in his 20s because they ruin women in both the short and long term to him. They’ve ruined his girl for him now that she’s come to her senses and chosen him to pair with “forever”.

Now she’s a mess, a mess he’s expected to untangle and heal and reconstruct into something resembling the sexual dream girl he’s convinced she used to be, and all because of that “Bro”, the abuser, they guy(s) she had to discover for herself she ‘really didn’t need in her life’.

She’s damaged goods, but to that Beta, she’s blameless in her having been “abused” because she didn’t know any better that ‘typical’ men, the ones she chose, would abuse her. Now their abuses are his problems and he’s reminded of that every time she cries when he initiates sex with her.

The Utility of Damaged Goods

In this context, the social convention that is “abuse” becomes another form of insurance of Hypergamy for women. That presumption of blameless abuse locks Beta providers into a Dream Killers schema to the point that they will prioritize the healing of their ‘abused’ princess, the one who would otherwise be his dream girl, above his own imperatives, aspiration and goals in order to prove his quality as a supporter of women.

For women, the assurances that the social convention of ‘abuse’ represents also comes with a measure of internal conflict. From the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy, her subconscious hates the idea of being obligated to fuck her Beta Bucks provider, but again, subconsciously, she needs (or feels she needs) his support, provisioning, and emotional availability. However, for all of his self-evincing support, comfort and emotional investment in being a “better man” than the nebulous ‘abusers’ of her past, those anti-seductive aspects only serve to remind and confirm to her that he ‘doesn’t get it‘ and she’s obligated to be intimate and affectionate in a seemingly genuine way if she’s to maintain the provisional relationship.

The default presumption of ‘abuse’ fills the need for a buffer between reconciling the Hypergamous want of an Alpha lover and the provisional, emotional need for a Beta’s resources and comforts. The DeadBedrooms and MarriedRedPill subredds (not to mention the MMSL forums) are littered with the stories of men who discovered (sometimes secretly) how sexual their ‘abused’ wives were in their Party Years or what their wives’ real sexual appetites were for other men after their divorce.

Now, as I close here, let me state that I’m not discounting the real possibilities of actual cases of abuse among women. I have no doubt I’ll generate a slew of disgruntled comments from women relating their personal tragedies in today’s comment thread, but my point in this essay isn’t to question women’s legitimate claims of abuse. Rather it is to lay bare the utility invested in presuming the legitimacy of abuse whenever a woman even hints at the possibility of it by crying before sex or any number of other behaviors or mental states that would be affirmed or excused by just the claim.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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fleezer
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“Adam received the command concerning the tree before Eve was made. He ate the fruit from her hand in order to share her fate, whatever that was going to be, because he loved her.” – some bible nerd lol. “love” or put another way, lack of an abundance mentality as Eve was literally the only woman on earth. Adam is not the first man, but the first beta? a 2600 year old warning against pedestalizing? a neolithic warning against putting woman’s wishes first? the rise of agriculture/”civilization” coincides with the rise of the beta? feminism was inevitable because the moment… Read more »

kfg
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Bearing in mind that just because her photo goes with the ad doesn’t mean it’s the same girl; there’s a lot of bait and switch that goes in that industry.

On the other hand, a lot of young models do leverage their nascent celebrity for extra cash and prizes.

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@Scribblerg: I don’t mean to be overly-vague. It’s just that he’s still alive, and I feel like I owe him an in-person confrontation over this before I talk publicly in an open way about it. And like I said, he’s not a horrible person. He’s helped me in a lot of ways in my adult life and I value my relationship with him. And so I don’t want to confront him, because I don’t want to mess things up over things that happened 20 years ago, even though they inhibit my ability to be a normal human being every day.… Read more »

Sentient
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Fleezer…

“why, at the pinnacle of civilization, at the point of realization of everything man hoped to achieve (control over his food supply, his living conditions) did man abdicate responsibility to woman?

why did he decide to eat the fruit?”

Well who fed “him” the fruit and told him to eat it? Who benefited from it the most?

We have all coming together Marxism, the 16th Amendment, Federal Reserve, WWI, the 19th Amendment… the growing political class… growing government bureaucracy in the 1930’s

See a pattern? who benefited?

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@scribblerg April 6th, 2016 at 9:25 am “Rollo has a maxim he states which goes something like this. ‘For one sex’s sexual strategy to succeed, the other’s must be thwarted’ (he says it better and i’m too busy to look it up right now). This is axiomatic. Also, commenter @SJF had very interesting cites a while back as to how female sexuality has resistance built into its very nature – @SJF, do you have those to hand? Female resistance is part of seduction and men overcoming that is in itself a demonstration of high value. At its essence, seduction is… Read more »

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KFG

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, might be the case of a girl who thinks she looks like the model grabs her Igram pics..

http://images3.backpage.com/imager/u/large/260786345/42eb3936b23acb7998bde78e896de353.jpg

This is from the back page, the only one that kind of does not look the same, looking at the thighs…

kfg
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” . . . a 2600 year old warning against pedestalizing?”

I think that’s made pretty explicit:

“Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it . . .”

LeeLee
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@MistralMistral “One thing that the “She was likely abused” crowd can never seem to rationalize is the period where said chick fucked like a nympho on speed…and then went “Oh, right…I was abused. I must shut the sex down IMMEDIATELY!” The “I can’t fuck now b/c I was abused” doesn’t make any sense at all.” The nympho-on-speed thing is a function of a fractured personality. This is key to understanding damaged girls. Our personalities are not singular entities, we have an inner community of personalities that interact and switch off with each other as needed. A healthy person can manage… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing, might be the case of a girl who thinks she looks like the model grabs her Igram pics..

That would be my guess. It’s possible that it’s the same model, but to be honest if she’s a girl with that many IG followers, she’s doing fully paid trips to Dubai, and not random backpage incalls in DFW.

newlyaloof
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My six-year-old daughter will flat-out lie if it suits her needs at the moment. Ex. Daughter ignores my wife’s commands three times, so I go over and lift her off of her stool and tell her to go do the command. Daughter starts whining and saying, “Ouch! You’re hurting me!” I tell her, “You’re such a little fibber.” She then switches to outright crying now that her initial claim didn’t work. I’ve had to tell her that she has to stop outright lying like she does. Shit is a trip to witness firsthand. She’s only six, and she’s already learned… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . it’s her mother that’s validated and facilitated the technique.”

It always is. It isn’t ironic at all. It’s one of the reasons that men are better at raising children (women are only better with babies) than women are.

In its original formulation, the Tender Years Doctrine only gave default custody to the mother until the children were four; then they were remanded to the father.

scray
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“They conveniently ignore the genomic evidence that shows roughly 80% of women bred with 20% of men in our evolutionary past (including Neanderthals), but the basis of the study is flawed because they ask the wrong question.” never heard of that. everything i’ve seen suggests this trend in humans begins with agriculture. unless you’re just talking about species predating homo sapiens. @jin “It might be that all the women were looking for alpha once per month, and looking is all they could do because there was no one to see.” this is way overplayed. i already linked to a meta-analysis… Read more »

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@kfg, yeah, my wife knows our daughter lies like this, but wife can’t help herself sometimes replying with, “What happened, honey?” or similar responses. The inconsistency on my wife’s part creates the Pavlovian Damage Response.

Chump No More
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@Glenn, “Try to imagine a society where most women are not raising their own children. Try to imagine the reaction women would have to that.” Experienced this up close and personal. 1st (ex) wife ran off w/ OM and abandoned me & kids. Mothers in the neighborhood & kid’s school vacillated between clucking about the ex being trash for walking away from her kids (especially daughter) and me being a pervert for wanting to raise my daughter as a single dad… they had epileptic fits trying to decide which to be most inflamed about. As a man you are damned… Read more »

kfg
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“As a man you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t… ”

As the joke goes:

If a man speaks in the forest and there’s no woman around to hear it, is he still wrong?

Sentient
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“The inconsistency on my wife’s part creates the Pavlovian Damage Response.”

She can’t be consistent because of emotions… won’t end either… Oldest is 24, wife still lurching from position to position… drives kids crazy. Becomes another shit test to pass…

I’m ridiculously consistent and unwavering… and they may not like it but they love it…

which is why single moms are such a scourge on society.

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, indeed. Usually, I only have to give a command once and my kids do what I say. Wife can’t stand it.

Yesterday she informed me that we were invited to a “gender neutral” baby shower invite. I flat-out told her I’m not going because that’s just one more example of Fuck This Gay Earth. Should have seen her spasm over that one. lol.

kfg
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“I only have to give a command once and my kids do what I say. Wife can’t stand it.”

Men command. Women argue . . . frickin’ endlessly. Kids run circles around that shit.

Pinelero
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@Newlyaloof- Guys are actually better with kids. Men take the long-term view with respect to discipline, chores, and activities that asks how will this benefit my child in the future? Women only look to address short term emotional issues often with cheap emotionalism, bribery, or blackmail, which doesn’t address the long-term behavior outcomes. My wife and I would disagree on discipline when the kids were younger. I told her we are doing this now to nip it in the bud, because when they are older it will only get worse. You reap what you sow.

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Sentient – ” I’m ridiculously consistent and unwavering… and they may not like it but they love it…” +1 absolutely. My theory is that a father has the first 5-6 years to really mold a child. It gets progressively harder after that ( but not impossible ). Children need and appreciate rock solid parenting/leadership. As in everything else in a relationship, the man has to assume the responsibility, and the woman must get onboard, or at least get out of the way as much as possible. A lot is made about a mother bonding with the child, but imo it… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Andy “Maybe we can think of a way to break through that social conditioning so that they see the truth instead of just waiting here for guys to get divorce raped or mentally fucked up by a BPD. Complaining about it is not going to do a fucking thing.” Totally behind you here. It’s like, I understand that guys on redpill sites often have shit to work through and vent and I don’t want to discourage that. But at some point you hit a point where it makes sense to start positively working towards solutions, next steps, and new horizons.… Read more »

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Re: Disciplining kids. When my little one was still in the single digits she would run roughshod over Mom but listen to me. It was so obvious that even years after we separated/divorced, the ex would call me and I could command my daughter over the phone and she would listen, lol. The funniest part was when I tried to explain that that our kiddo would do so because she let her. The ex would always get down in the muck with her and negotiate or get emotional. With me it was consistent and I also had far fewer red… Read more »

diamondjimwrites
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Reddit DeadBedrooms, thanks for that depressing as hell link, LOL. Here’s a perfect example of what happens – I mean, spot on, wow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/30n324/sexless_marriage_at_30/

Sentient
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Forge

Man, good positive vibes coming from you… Nice. go sarge! Take advantage of your state…

Blaximus
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Speaking of escorts…. A chick I grew up with became an escort for a while. As far as I could tell, she wasn’t damaged or broken at all. She seemed ” normal ” pretty much but she was moneycentric. At 17 she shared a story with me about an older guy ( I’d guess that he was in his 40’s at that time ) was pestering her and hitting on her all the time. She liked the attention but wanted him to tone it down a little. He eventually started pressuring her for sex. She turned him down many times… Read more »

scribblerg
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Fuck, that deadbedrooms shit is for the birds. In a way, this is what lead to my divorce. After putting up with that kind of “foreplay is begging and pleading” crap for a couple of years, I refused to play anymore and told her that I expected my wife to want to have sex with me. After a lot of back and forth and her playing whore and then backing off I finally told her to get in our marriage or to get out. In classic female style, she didn’t leave but started fucking someone else instead. But I will… Read more »

scray
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@fleezer lol no one can have it all instead, you just need to make REAL DECISIONS. learning how to make decisions based on your priorities is what’s key. @all i looked through a lot of old txt messages, fb, and FRs to try and better recreate my mindset when i first started. i was looking for some other sticking points. but NOPE….the main problem was PULLING THE TRIGGER. esp reading my exchanges — lol i had forgotten how you can at the very least build value through txt/online alone — was like ‘wow wtf.’ pattern: scray does material/c&f/routines/playful/flirt girl gets… Read more »

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@ScribblerG “Fuck, that deadbedrooms shit is for the birds. Jesus, the Reddit thread gave me flashbacks… Now? If it was a choice between living with and raising my daughter or not? I’d stay and cheat and leave the wife the fuck alone.” Actually, now you would google search, find the manosphere and eventually find BluePillProfessors book which is excellent and a distillation of Married Red Pill action plan. Any man in a dead bedroom that can’t spend $5.99 and a little bit of time on that book is clinically retarded or lazy as fuck. 90% of married red pill is… Read more »

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@Scray …..i mean lol some of that shit i was running (ESP when it was the first interaction or the general start of interactions) was a) very good (like i laughed and was like ‘holy shit this is cool’) b) completely changed my thought process about my earlier interactions. a lot of ‘man this chick just ain’t into me’ memories became ‘OH MY FUCKING GOD DUDE WHAT THE SHIT WOW….’ no wonder she lost interest, you came across in the beginning as this cool guy and then just showed your hand as a bitch. This goes to a lot of… Read more »

Johnycomelately
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Brilliant comment from the-captain at reddit. “In economics, speeding up a matching market increases disparity. relationships are a matching market, and tech speeds up and widens matching markets by ridiculous amounts. multiple nobel prizes have been awarded over this inescapable fact. larger, faster markets have much higher value on the same percentages of people… this is why university and high school sports are rated by school size… bigger faster pools have much better talent depth. in everything in life, EVERYONE wants the top x%. increasing the number of options doesn’t widen the acceptable number of choices. it makes people pickier.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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@ SJF ” The funny thing is, the guy who navigates around the room to casually open a girl, when you think about it, he’s actually expending more actual effort than the guy who just straight-lines it for the girl. But it isn’t about actual effort – it’s about the appearance of effort. The king may be crunching inordinate amounts of numbers in his head and stressing like crazy over how to get the population what they want and not incite rebellion and how to manage the drama going on between his wife and his head concubine, and he may… Read more »

Matt
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I think it’s practically abusive for a low status, average looking guy to ask a girl out on a college campus now.

She responds:
“Oh kyle. That’s for when I’m 32, not now. How could you not know that?”

Glengarry
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“Here is the thing though… all of her truth is emotion. So whatever she says she felt at anytime is via the prism of emotion – at THAT time.”

Here is a simple method which I believe I learned at CH. Just preface all her statements with “At the moment I feel like”. For example, “(At the moment I feel like) I love you forever and ever.” La donna e mobile.

Glengarry
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For what it’s worth, I nowadays start out with the assumption that any public rape accusations are just lies and malicious slander. And after a few days or weeks, it normally turns out this assumption was correct.

kfg
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“… most people look at the top 3ish and pick one . . .”

Amazon has a new “easy pick” service; you tell them the sort of thing you’re looking for, and they give you two choices, one midrange, one high end.

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Striver
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SJF –

By the time the Example 2 guy completes his circle route, Example 1 guy is already making out with her. LOL

Matt
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Yes, thanks. I’ve read everything on this site and the books. Now, it’s just deciding whether to search for a unicorn or wait 8 years and hope success makes the difference. Of course, Christianity makes this somewhat of a problem. I doubt Rollo would recommend someone go incel until they are hopefully at their apex to consolidate on their marriage options. I went to the supposed land of unicorns and could not find any who were marginally attractive. Who knows, I could have tried harder. It probably also has to do with it being in california, rather than say liberty… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Who knows, I could have tried harder. It probably also has to do with it being in california, rather than say liberty university in Virginia.

It doesn’t. Samantha Ponder herself is a proud graduate of Liberty, and a prime, high-profile example of hypergamy-in-action. It’s everywhere — it’s the way the culture is.

What is needed is acceptance of that and the dedication to change yourself and adapt, rather than trying to “find a place that is different” — there isn’t one.

enrique
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@Glengarry That saying has been around since the early DadsDivorce.com manosphere days…15 years ago. “Right now I feel like… …you are the man of my dreams” …you are such a great father” …we could just, grow OLD together” “Right now I feel like… …all you think about is sex” …all you think about is sex with other women” …I just have other priorities” …I’m the only one who has a stressful job” …you undervalue me” …my mom [sister; girlfriends; your ex-wife] were right about you” …I just need time, alone, with the kids on a vacation while you work” …maybe… Read more »

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@Matt : “”I’m sort of numb to the concept of a relationship now. Just plough on and optimize my body and my career investments.”” For me truly swallowing the Red Pill was to redefine the idea of relationship for myself. It used to be finding someone and being together, spending time. Now I have 2-3 “relationships” at the same time. Each offers me something different but all offer me sex. Also, I was determined to never again go out with girls over 30. I started meeting up with or reaching out to online girls who were under 30. What’s interesting… Read more »

Blaximus
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walawala said: “I wrote a lot in the past about approaching and technique. But in the last 8 months or so I’ve focused on mindset. I now adopt a mindset of being the prize. Having that mindset means I can say whatever I want and it comes from a place of strength.” It bears repeating – ” I wrote a lot in the past about approaching and technique. But in the last 8 months or so I’ve focused on mindset. I now adopt a mindset of being the prize. Having that mindset means I can say whatever I want and… Read more »

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@enriqe from earlier “And as with any “negotiation”, war or game theory strategy, the more weakness you show, thinking it will gain you peaceful conclusions the MORE COMFORTABLE she will become with attacking you.” Holy shit true. Might I also recommend you make sure she knows her legal bills are coming out of her cut… Note that the scumbag lawyers magically don’t bill during the initial fight phase… Only later. Ask her what the bill was and point out that is directly coming out of her $… Mine ended months earlier and much cheaper when she finally “saw” what she… Read more »

Ronin
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I think many guys waste too much time thinking about what changes to make to attract women rather than just being the best man they can be physically, mentally and spiritually. If one has all their ducks in line he becomes the alpha who does not need to pursue women and deals with them on his own terms. Coming from that level of abundance radiates and is Kitty crack.

Andy
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“But at some point you hit a point where it makes sense to start positively working towards solutions, next steps, and new horizons.” @forge Yeah, I mean don’t get me wrong, Rollo is a personal hero of mine right up there with Michael Jordan, YaReally, and Joe Rogan. I still think that bottoms up is the right approach, but what can we do to facilitate that? Off the top of my head maybe try and unplug top guys in already established mens infrastructure. Fraternities, Freemasons… Lol is there anything else? Hmmm.. If Rollo could snag a spot on Joe Rogan’s… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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@Blaximus

“Never.Let.’Em.See.You.Sweat.”

You should codify that.

Oh wait, someone already did:

Law #30 of 48

Make your Accomplishments Seem Effortless

Your actions must seem natural and executed with ease. All the toil and practice that go into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. When you act, act effortlessly, as if you could do much more. Avoid the temptation of revealing how hard you work – it only raises
questions. Teach no one your tricks or they will be used against you.

Forge the Sky
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@Sentient

Gotta burn the midnight oil tonight, so I can sarge tomorrow! I plan of having an even better vibe then.

I get the feeling this is gonna be a growth month. The last two have been ‘getting obstacles the hell out of my way’ months. Glad that’s over, I was starting to forget how awesome it is to be me wink

Forge the Sky
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@Andy Another possible avenue is to create a body of writing that presents the redpill in a format designed to avoid reflexive rejection. Not by diluting it, but by starting by explaining the things that are harder to deny and don’t hit too many trigger points – or when they do hit trigger points, anticipate the reader’s reaction and tell them why they might be reacting that way and how to get around that reaction to see things objectively. Most people, when they read redpill stuff, either erect strawmen to argue against (‘oooh, so you’re saying you should just dominate… Read more »

enrique
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enrique
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/06/female-soldier-allegedly-beaten-by-male-comrades-for-hooking-up.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

[[ “A female U.S. Army soldier said she was beaten so severely by a soldier after making out with another man in their unit that she “thought I was about to die.” Jacob Andrew Avila, a combat engineer, and his friend Lucas Curtis stumbled onto the 18-year-old woman and her comrade in a bedroom at Avila’s home in Copperas Cove. ]]

Hypergamy doesn’t care about your combat readiness.

Kaminsky
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@Forge the Sky “But at some point you hit a point where it makes sense to start positively working towards solutions, next steps, and new horizons.” That’s what I’ve been thinking for awhile now. Those first hits of RP awareness are, while sometimes difficult, the greatest epiphanies of a guy’s life–at least mine. I’m sure many here would agree. Then I think what can happen is that a reward circuitry develops. That’s what you could call the “Fuck yeah dude! It was all bullshit!” stage. But if you get that indignation/pleasure circuitry built up then you’re hardly different than an… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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@ SJF

comment image

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Hmmm… how to reach more guys with RP knowledge. That’s a tricky one because there is an attack machine just waiting to be turned on and pointed in the direction of anything Male Improvement. Ohhh, the misogyny. Stuff on social media has a tendency to go viral sometimes. Maybe, just maybe it’s just a matter of time. The problem is when things or ideas become ” movements ” they will fizzle out and die from trend fatigue. So relentlessness will be the order of the day. Keep driving the message into space. Guys will hear even if they don’t say… Read more »

Looking for Zion
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Looking for Zion
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This ties together many of your past posts up in a nice succinct bow. Excellent work.

Softek
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“It’s important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with…” It’s interesting to hear stories of women’s past lovers. It’s funny how they glaze over the very obvious fact that they FUCKED all these guys, and CHOSE TO FUCK them, by painting them as ‘scum’ or ‘complete garbage’ or ‘complete assholes.’ As if calling them that means, retroactively, that these women didn’t choose to fuck them. Implying that if they ONLY KNEW that these guys were Assholes, they never would’ve fucked them, or wanted to fuck them,… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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Rollo et al- OT. PSA. New futile tool for the FI toolbox – Boompi. Idiots. Leave it to the femine (and/or white knights as the case may be) to create a short-sighted attempt to be “overt” through a technology that is inherently overt. Nice try, ladies. Steering back to this thread topic: it’s safe to say there would be peals of “abuse” and “abusive!” scorn and rancor from women were men to release a male-focused Boompi counterpart: “On its face, it’s just another dating app. You know about those. It helps facilitate conversations with other people based on your deep,… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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Ajax Parallax
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Typo. Meant “covert.”

walawala
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walawala
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Blax “how to reach more guys with RP knowledge”…

Be careful with this. Guys have to come to this on their own…otherwise you’re throwing a life preserver to someone who doesn’t want to be saved.

I know a guy who I used to talk to about game who ignores me when I talk about girls…he can’t hear it.

He also castigated me for banging girls in our social circle…white knights come in different shapes and sizes but their common element is a self loathing at their own inbability to get what they want…so they criticise others.

Work on yourself….the rest falls into place.

kaminsky
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Emily,

I don’t know about the Catholic church at all but I’ll venture a guess. You say that the church still gives more rights to men. (‘Still’—interesting giveaway there) What I think happened here is that the church still has some vague dying carcass of a scrap of an acknowledgement of mens rights in some tattered form on some inconsequential issue and your hamster went on a binary run, Usain Bolt style, to take that as some evidence of misogyny. That’s my guess.

Crimson Curse
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Goddamn, this hits home. The girl who would become my wife fucked like a maniac in the beginning—everywhere all the time. Everybody knows where this story goes: the sex winds down and gets increasingly more vanilla; I’d ogle her and get a “I don’t like it when you objectify me” response; she stopped initiating sex; more and more rules get imposed to the point where eventually I can’t finger her or go down on her because of a previous abusive boyfriend (a situation that I knew about but had no effect on our sex life for the first year and… Read more »

kaminsky
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@ walawala

I agree with you.To try and dump the redpill on guys who didn’t even show a sign of asking or caring isn’t going to work. 30 buddies will smile at you (their crackpot tinfoil friend that everyone has) for every one guy who listens for a few minutes, nods at your point and forgets it anyway . I’ve recommended the RM to guys who it was absolutely written for at their peak epiphany zone and they still set it down after a few pages if that. It’s kind of an internet only game.

Megawit
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Yikes. I am astounded by the amount of rough experiences on here with women playing the ‘damaged goods card’. Perhaps I’m just lucky that I haven’t truly encountered this. For what it’s worth I am grateful to my father for ‘unplugging’ me well ahead of my teens. I think my dad was ‘redpill’ way before there was a term for it – sure, he was a devoted family man and probably gave all his resources to us kids and my mum, but he did not suffer any femi-shit gladly. My mum (bless her) was a complete hindbrain-driven fruitcake, a sweet… Read more »

IAS
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IAS
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About fathers being better parents than mothers, when I found out about Red Pill I read many of the top rated posts on the TRP reddit. This one stuck with me even though I don’t intend to have kids. I think it is worth a read for parents in particular:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/35frau/the_hardest_job_on_the_planet/

Will
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Will
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Since my wife went cold and withdrew sex, my sex life improved immensely with other women willing to take her place. Because withdrawal of sex is a form of abandonment equivalent to cancelling a marriage contract, there is no cheating.

kfg
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kfg
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“Because withdrawal of sex is a form of abandonment equivalent to cancelling a marriage contract . . .”

In fact, until within my own lifetime, it used to be cause for cancelling the marriage contract.

YaReally
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YaReally
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Can’t force guys to take the red pill. The first thing EVERYONE does when they find PUA and get some success is tell their buddies because they want their buddies to get laid too and they think “why would any guy NOT want to know this stuff and get laid????” And then they find out you can’t force guys to take the red pill. Guys have to seek it out on their own, and they have to be at rock bottom when they do. A guy who isn’t at rock bottom will dabble and then go back to his old… Read more »

Roused
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@Blax, “Dads with teen daughters, it is imperative that you monitor and have access to your kids social media. In a perfect world, we can forbid them to even use any of it, but that’s not very practical. It’s part of everyone’s existence now and you don’t want to turn your kids into social outcasts. But watch that shit like a hawk.” Oh man, you got that right. It’s been a shitty challenging week with my teen daughter. I think she realized her mistakes… Really don’t enjoy those phone calls from the authorities. She needs that very consistent firm boundaries… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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I think the reason why men no longer have any interest in committing to women is because women simply refuse to take responsibility on anything. They would rather blame something external to them in order to justify their actions. I thought my ex would be different when she decided to commit to someone new, fuck him with no guilt, and knowing how I felt and throwing away the best of 2 years we basically built together. This isn’t new to anyone whose experienced commitment with a woman. But just highlighting it here in case someone decides to use ‘Love’ as… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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@Yareally I completely agree with you. The guys that argue about which version of game is better are usually those that haven’t gone out extensively and tested it or have failed to think for themselves and to leave themselves open to try new things. A key thing i’ve discovered is that regardless of how you approach, women know know the score. The underlying subtext will always be “He’s trying to hit on me”, which is absolutely fine. Guys seem to think there’s something wrong with it, and look at indirect as ‘going under the radar’… Very bad frame of looking… Read more »

ace
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ace
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Andy April 7th, 2016 at 4:57 am “I think the reason why men no longer have any interest in committing to women is because women simply refuse to take responsibility on anything. They would rather blame something external to them in order to justify their actions.” Women have always been this way so this can’t be the reason men don’t want to commit anymore. The reason men don’t want to commit is because women delay (past their prime years) settling down and the availability of cheap and easy alternatives: internet, porn, games etc. Men used to marry 16/17-year-old virgins with… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“Guys have to seek it out on their own, and they have to be at rock bottom when they do. A guy who isn’t at rock bottom will dabble and then go back to his old patterns and keep a lot of his old mindsets.”

I feel like just a few things could help a ton of guys though.
-Money Pussy
-Women need to be lead.
-A man needs to have boundaries and enforce them
-What a shit test is, how to deal with it.
-Anyone can learn social skills

Is that stuff REALLY that unpalatable?

Andy
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Andy
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money does not equal pussy

Pinelero
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Pinelero
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@ace: “Men used to marry 16/17-year-old virgins with prime domestic skills, now they get useless semi-ho’s twice that age – plus they are far more expensive now”
Exactly this. When I talk to guys about their wives I find out that many of their wives don’t even know how to cook. I then ask them why in the hell did they marry a woman that can’t even cook. I vetted my wife for basic life skills. She cooked for me, and I saw how she was around kids.

kobayashii1681
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@cattaro: 😂😂 even with that bad English I have understood everything brother…

kobayashii1681
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@anonymous: where are you & your husband from?
He doesn’t speak, OR understand English?

kfg
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kfg
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“. . . their wives don’t even know how to cook.”

Don’t cook, don’t clean,
what do you do?
Don’t cook, don’t clean,
what do you do?

Screw subtle inuendo, you bring
something to the table.

Andy
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Andy
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If a girl doesn’t even have the basic culinary skills or take pride in keeping things clean and tidy. Then I see no shame in using them only for sex and some occasional shits and giggles.

If a man can do all of those things himself and take care of himself, then what other reason could he want her for?

Most women gawk at the idea of cooking and cleaning for their men. So they’re really in no position to comment.

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker
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women know know the score. The underlying subtext will always be “He’s trying to hit on me”, which is absolutely fine. Guys seem to think there’s something wrong with it, and look at indirect as ‘going under the radar’… Very bad frame of looking at it. Exactly. Of course she knows you’re hitting on her. If you’re trying to deny that in the way you approach, she picks up on that immediately and it’s a very bad vibe. It gets read not as being subtle, but as being chickenshit, and she’s probably right about that. She knows you’re hitting on… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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Crimson Curse It still blows my mind how little it took to basically re-engineer a 20 year relationship. I mean, it took an entire mindset shift but the physical actions were minor: don’t answer the phone at work, never respond to a text immediately or with emojis, no “how’s your day?” check-ins, give her chores (“I need you to pick up something at Target” texts or emails with “Order this for me in a M”), never apologize, don’t ask for permission, don’t acquiesce in fights, don’t react emotionally to drama, smack her on the ass often, tease if she reacts,… Read more »

Megawit
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@ Novaseeker “So really when women are complaining about men not wanting to commit, it’s generally the high value men they are complaining about. Beta bux is still generally available after she lane changes, and she knows that, but his commitment is less valuable to her, and is taken as an entitlement of sorts. The X-Box/porn/ESPN crowd isn’t even on the radar screen and frankly they don’t count from the perspective of women.” That’s the truth right there. And whenever women tal about what they look for in a man, you may as wel ass the subtext of . Interviewer:… Read more »

Megawit
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*that should read: ADD the subtext of ‘within the top 20% SMV pool of men’

Sentient
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Sentient
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“women know the score…” “Of course she knows you’re hitting on her. If you’re trying to deny that in the way you approach, she picks up on that immediately and it’s a very bad vibe. It gets read not as being subtle, but as being chickenshit” Guys need to back up a step in the process and THEN re-approach it. Women know the score BECAUSE they are putting themselves in positions to BE hit on… that’s why they are there in front of you… Now don’t hold back. You do your part. Direct/Indirect doesn’t matter. Taking action does. Heh –… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, love reading your “take action” posts, man.
Another thing that I’ve noticed recently that trips me out is how growing out a mustache and beard can up the alpha and get a better response from women, and how it can make even dudes that know you tell you how much better you look.

Like this:
http://i34.tinypic.com/vp7ps8.jpg

Not like this:
comment image

I’ve had women recently see me, smile,and look away shyly as if my gaze caught them doing something they were not supposed to do.

YaReally
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@Andy If that’s you in your profile pic take that shit down ASAP. A direct compliment is great, but there are a LOT of situations where that direct compliment is going to trigger ASD or get her group’s defenses up or get orbiters and mother hens cockblocking or she’s already full of herself and you’re the 10th guy that night to compliment her like that or you’re externally low-value by society’s standards (short, fat, old, not masculine looking, dressed poor, etc) and your value isn’t on display when you approach etc etc You’ll notice a lot of the guys who… Read more »

Andy
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@newlyaloof

What do you have against beard #2? That’s what mine looked like until I got tired of chewing on my mustache. It’s coming off for the winter soon though.

Sun Wukong
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OT: Harkening back to the Warrior Princess motif, a trailer for a new side story that fits in between episodes 3 and 4 of Star Wars has been released. Abrams’ diversity quota strikes again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg Women just don’t work as strong action/adventure leads the vast majority of the time when you try it. In fact, the only one I can remember working at all on any level was Linda Hamilton in the Terminator series. But “diversity” demands it. Don’t get me wrong, obviously it’s not hurting their bottom line. You slap Star Wars on anything and you make a shit… Read more »

fleezer
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“If a man can do all of those things himself and take care of himself, then what other reason could he want her for?” my wife’s looks, hot body and overall sexy vibe plus the way she is in bed are far and away the top reasons I’m currently LTR with her. she knows this her (every couple of months or so): “I’m just an object to you.” me: “you already know that so now you’re just being annoying. turn around and bend over” some would say this is comfort test territory, but I don’t think comfort tests exist, only… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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Yareally Not joking… it’s a good “soft” opener but really it works well because as you say: “show intent through their subcommunications ” so by the time you have cut space and start lasering during the DHV story you are almost to a more direct style. The transition is easy with some kino bounce, hand on hand or elbow or back “hey I’m thirsty come with me a sec” and move her and proceed from there… if she says “i thought you weren’t hitting on me” or anything you can just go with “that? nah just kidding, we are having… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Andy, just not my style. And i think that some of the people that wear that “style” do so because it’s a style, not necessarily for how it makes them look. Some dudes can wear this and get away with it, but many look like caricatures.
I haven’t seen one dude wearing that longer style that matches the coolness of the shorter style like this:
http://www.essentialstyleformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Clint_Eastwood2.jpg

ace
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ace
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YaReally April 7th, 2016 at 7:09 am “@ace “Women have always been this way” The difference is that men didn’t KNOW. And a lot of it was shamed. Divorce was shameful, cheating was shameful,” Men have always known women to be irresponsible (problably more then than now). The difference between our time and times past is men used to tie down/handcuff a girl early in her life….still very much moldable, not allowing too much room for the dark side of her psyche to develop. A women used the be either under the roof of her father or that of her… Read more »

Sentient
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Newly – yeah hate those hipster beards… Man they are growing now to ridiculous lengths… just talking with my barber the other day about this. definitely reached peak beard round here…

Andy
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“I haven’t seen one dude wearing that longer style that matches the coolness of the shorter style like this:”

Ah. Well, you haven’t seen me. wink

kfg
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kfg
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I keep mine at full Kristofferson:

http://direct-ns.rhap.com/imageserver/v2/artists/Art.61501/images/356×237.jpg

25 years ago my GF marvelled over it as the longest beard she had ever seen (caveat: she was from NJ and attending Skidmore).

I grew up in real logging country. The hipster faux lumberjacks drive me nuts.

Andy
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“yeah hate those hipster beards”

lol, you guys would probably call me a hipster. Not like it means anything anymore. It’s basically the universal pejorative for dude with beard that I don’t like the looks of. But, fuck hipsters, they started dressing like me, not me like them… Just realized that’s exactly what a hipster would say isn’t it? Fuck.

Sun Wukong
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How many hipsters does it take to change a light bulb?

Never mind, you’ve probably never heard of the number.

newlyaloof
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@Andy, seems to me that any dude that wears your style will get away with it if their faces show some livin’ being done and some life/battle scars. If you look at the first hipster beard pic I posted, you will see that they guy has a baby face – it’s as if he hasn’t earned the beard yet, know what I mean?

Sentient
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Fleezer…

Curious how old you are and how long you’ve been married…? You also have no kids right?

as to this ” maybe there’s a redit about awesome wives and all the nasty sex and good cooking they do but I’ve never heard of it. ”

Go to any MMSL forum or similar and you will see most of the women who post there are high sex drive who are desperately chasing their former Alpha now low T hubby with food and pussy…

But yeah there are no sites with guys posting that stuff…

scribblerg
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@Fleezer – Indeed. The more time I spend here, and the more I develop, the more I realize commenting here is likely reversely correlated with how much I’m upping the alpha and working on my life. It’s not just that the guys who have lively sex lives and compliant wives don’t need to be online talking about it, it’s that being the kind of man who isn’t busy talking about all this crap is highly correlated with being high value and one’s own point of mental origin. Keyboard jockeying and LARPing are real hazards for guys who are accustomed to… Read more »

qsajaq
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qsajaq
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I am a Christian, but Nietzsche was bang on calling it a religion for femenized people who are full of resentment against the strong.

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